I just had a similar rain experience last week. Doing aprx 87 mph on a divided interstate (2 lanes each side as in your video), surrounded by small thunderstorms, we suddenly came into heavy rain, standing water, and some wind (driving a Porsche Cayman S 981 with Stage 2 mods, Michelin 4s tires in good shape) the car immediately began a gentle fishtail. I eased off the gas, kept the car straight with no loss of control (no braking!). If I had been going much faster, say 100 or more mph, I might have hydroplaned completely and lost control as you did. Speed, tires, level of water on the road, wind all contribute to possible loss of control. Weight and size of the vehicle are also factors. (I've driven a big rig, 53" trailer in thunderstorms and high winds) reducing speed was all I found necessary to maintain control. Most important is good tires and suspension, reduction of speed without braking, don't panic, drive the vehicle.
it's mostly about the weight transfer. the tires in the rear are wider because most of the cars weight is back there, it needs the extra traction to keep the rear from sliding sideways in turns, depending on the power, tire type, ect., you want a certain amount of traction front and rear, too much in the rear gives you understeer, too much in the front gives you more oversteer. the tires being wider had very little to do with loss of traction in the wet, as racecars do not put narrower tires on in the rain, it again comes down to balance and where the weight is going, the car was going too fast (obvious) but we're all car guys here, no one blames her/him for that. when it started raining, letting off the throttle from high RPM is a bad idea, if he so much as touched the brakes without excellent rain tires that car was always going to spin. The PS4S tire has decent rain performance, but, it's still an "extreme performance summer tire" according to Michelin. This was just pushing the car with the wrong tires for conditions that suddenly got real bad. Sad to see, not much the driver could have done, he might have been able to slow down if he had tried real hard to lose speed without unloading the rear suspension too much, but it would have been scary no matter what.
Best explanation so far. Sudden weight transfer due to throttle lift off, deviating from a straight line, panic braking - all 3 will enable any MR car to rotate very quickly. You would have to be a driving god to catch it. Drive according to conditions. Or just buy an Audi : )
My mechanic told me a story about tires exploding on a 911, throwing the car across the highway. Tires are key and changing a pair of rears made a world of difference. Old tires regardless are still a hazard.
3rd reason not valid When u slam brake, the nature weights transfer is towards front. You front wheel should lose control first, not the rear. Tyre traction is determined by the weight on it. That’s why anti-squat suspension is important. Welcome for discussion.
Thats a very interesting topic. But I want to ask does the mid engine platform handles better in the rain with RWD or should we consider getting an AWD car? The car I want to get in the future is the boxster, but the 911 (991 series in particular) offers more premium features such as AWD (for models with 4 on it) and rear wheel steering. I was kinda stuck with these 2 models. I kinda want to hear your opinion with this one.
Both have it's pros and cons and would be long to cover in a message But for your specific question, the answer is depending on your driving style. If you want more grip, it would be the AWD but if you want the rear to come out whilst entering the corner it's the RWD
As different tyre size (larger size) may lead to car losing control in wet condition, would having same tyre size (as the front) help to reduce the risk of car losing control?
In general, most cars are designed to understeer when pushed over the limits. Understeer is much safer than oversteer as you just need to let go of the gas pedal to reduce understeer. So by putting wider rear tyres at the back, it makes the car more prone to understeer (again it depends on many factors e.g. engine location, suspension setup, FWD etc.) The reason why the 911 has very wide tyres relative to the front is because it is very prone to oversteer due to the rear engine layout.
It is never recommended to drive fast in the rain for any cars bro. The thing with mid engine is that it will be easier to breach the limit as the car might make some drivers feel over confident
Here are some links that state Cup 2 are semi slicks bro 👍🏼 www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres/michelin/pilot-sport-cup-2-semi-slick/ www.carthrottle.com/post/is-it-a-terrible-idea-to-run-semi-slick-day-tyres-all-year-round/ www.tiregom.co.uk/michelin/pilot-sport-cup-2-semi-slick
The ESP might or might not have intervened but I wont be able to tell from the video. It could be that the car was so out of control that even the ESP couldnt save it in this situation. It's hard to say but if the FWD car was going fast enough it would end up in a similar predicament as this 718 too.
I wouldnt say it's a problem as it's a characteristic of the car due to it's engine layout. Same like a FWD understeering when you try to throttle during a corner or torque steer when you accelerate hard. I wouldnt call those issues. You'll need to know each car's characteristic & then see how to manage it. It could be advantageous or dangerous depending on how you use them.
Indeed bro! Another reason is because the new cars feel so competent & it's so well insulated, the driver at times feel detached from what's happening. For older cars, once you reach the limit you can most definitely feel it. And then you back down before it escalates.
I've got the same Citizen Eagle 7! 😁 It was my late granddad's, handed down to me once he passed. What a pleasant surprise that u featured this same watch.
Perhaps so bro. But I like mentioned in my video, my previous Boxster also lost grip at at rear at speeds of 90km/h with moderate drizzle on NKVE without going thru a puddle of water
I just had a similar rain experience last week. Doing aprx 87 mph on a divided interstate (2 lanes each side as in your video), surrounded by small thunderstorms, we suddenly came into heavy rain, standing water, and some wind (driving a Porsche Cayman S 981 with Stage 2 mods, Michelin 4s tires in good shape) the car immediately began a gentle fishtail. I eased off the gas, kept the car straight with no loss of control (no braking!). If I had been going much faster, say 100 or more mph, I might have hydroplaned completely and lost control as you did. Speed, tires, level of water on the road, wind all contribute to possible loss of control. Weight and size of the vehicle are also factors. (I've driven a big rig, 53" trailer in thunderstorms and high winds) reducing speed was all I found necessary to maintain control. Most important is good tires and suspension, reduction of speed without braking, don't panic, drive the vehicle.
Thanks for sharing, luckily it wasnt too fast and you managed to detect the loss of traction in time
it's mostly about the weight transfer. the tires in the rear are wider because most of the cars weight is back there, it needs the extra traction to keep the rear from sliding sideways in turns, depending on the power, tire type, ect., you want a certain amount of traction front and rear, too much in the rear gives you understeer, too much in the front gives you more oversteer. the tires being wider had very little to do with loss of traction in the wet, as racecars do not put narrower tires on in the rain, it again comes down to balance and where the weight is going, the car was going too fast (obvious) but we're all car guys here, no one blames her/him for that. when it started raining, letting off the throttle from high RPM is a bad idea, if he so much as touched the brakes without excellent rain tires that car was always going to spin. The PS4S tire has decent rain performance, but, it's still an "extreme performance summer tire" according to Michelin. This was just pushing the car with the wrong tires for conditions that suddenly got real bad. Sad to see, not much the driver could have done, he might have been able to slow down if he had tried real hard to lose speed without unloading the rear suspension too much, but it would have been scary no matter what.
Agreed bro 👍🏼
Best explanation so far. Sudden weight transfer due to throttle lift off, deviating from a straight line, panic braking - all 3 will enable any MR car to rotate very quickly. You would have to be a driving god to catch it. Drive according to conditions. Or just buy an Audi : )
Happy you enjoyed & found value from my video
Haha, drive what makes you feel is good. And responsibly 👍🏼
Your videos are excellent ! Love the intro with the watches .. very classy touch !
Thanks for your kind feedback & support for my channel! 🙏🏻
My mechanic told me a story about tires exploding on a 911, throwing the car across the highway. Tires are key and changing a pair of rears made a world of difference. Old tires regardless are still a hazard.
Fully agreed!
No matter how powerful, how good the suspension or how good the driver is the tyres is the only thing between the car & the road.
3rd reason not valid
When u slam brake, the nature weights transfer is towards front. You front wheel should lose control first, not the rear.
Tyre traction is determined by the weight on it. That’s why anti-squat suspension is important.
Welcome for discussion.
Nope.
The front will gain extra traction/load during braking, while the rear will lift and start to fishtail due to weight transfer.
Spot on @Mohammad Audi
Thanks for the explanation 👍🏼
Thanks for video!
You're most welcome!
Thanks for the video!
Thanks for the support bro! 🙏🏻
Thats a very interesting topic. But I want to ask does the mid engine platform handles better in the rain with RWD or should we consider getting an AWD car? The car I want to get in the future is the boxster, but the 911 (991 series in particular) offers more premium features such as AWD (for models with 4 on it) and rear wheel steering. I was kinda stuck with these 2 models. I kinda want to hear your opinion with this one.
Both have it's pros and cons and would be long to cover in a message
But for your specific question, the answer is depending on your driving style. If you want more grip, it would be the AWD but if you want the rear to come out whilst entering the corner it's the RWD
As different tyre size (larger size) may lead to car losing control in wet condition, would having same tyre size (as the front) help to reduce the risk of car losing control?
want to know this too.
In general, most cars are designed to understeer when pushed over the limits. Understeer is much safer than oversteer as you just need to let go of the gas pedal to reduce understeer.
So by putting wider rear tyres at the back, it makes the car more prone to understeer (again it depends on many factors e.g. engine location, suspension setup, FWD etc.)
The reason why the 911 has very wide tyres relative to the front is because it is very prone to oversteer due to the rear engine layout.
@@marcusl8613 yup, just explained it 👍🏼
@@ThePorscheLover Thanks man! well explained!
So a cayman is not supposed to drive fast in rain? Is that the conclusion?
It is never recommended to drive fast in the rain for any cars bro.
The thing with mid engine is that it will be easier to breach the limit as the car might make some drivers feel over confident
Good knowledge, thanks Adrian
My pleasure!
Pilot sport cup 2 is not semi slick
Pilot sport cup 2R is semi slick
Correct me if I’m wrong
On side note: semi slick is not road legal.
Here are some links that state Cup 2 are semi slicks bro 👍🏼
www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres/michelin/pilot-sport-cup-2-semi-slick/
www.carthrottle.com/post/is-it-a-terrible-idea-to-run-semi-slick-day-tyres-all-year-round/
www.tiregom.co.uk/michelin/pilot-sport-cup-2-semi-slick
Why didn’t the ESP intervene? Front engine cars would’ve manage this situation better?
The ESP might or might not have intervened but I wont be able to tell from the video. It could be that the car was so out of control that even the ESP couldnt save it in this situation.
It's hard to say but if the FWD car was going fast enough it would end up in a similar predicament as this 718 too.
@@ThePorscheLover By any chance you would know the speed of the car? If the car is doing well over 200km/h, no tyres can do anything about it
Yup. Spot on
Adrian are all Porsche Cayman or Boxster plagued with this problem?
I wouldnt say it's a problem as it's a characteristic of the car due to it's engine layout.
Same like a FWD understeering when you try to throttle during a corner or torque steer when you accelerate hard. I wouldnt call those issues.
You'll need to know each car's characteristic & then see how to manage it. It could be advantageous or dangerous depending on how you use them.
Interesting!
Yup!
good info 👍
Thanks! Hope you got some value from this video
Driving fast in the rain. You will end up in the ditch regardless of tire conditions.
Indeed bro! Another reason is because the new cars feel so competent & it's so well insulated, the driver at times feel detached from what's happening.
For older cars, once you reach the limit you can most definitely feel it. And then you back down before it escalates.
I've got the same Citizen Eagle 7! 😁
It was my late granddad's, handed down to me once he passed.
What a pleasant surprise that u featured this same watch.
Wow, the best watches are ones with memories.
Which year was it from? 😬
Looks like a matter of going too fast for road conditions. Seen this often with ppl driving performance car in heavy rain like they are invincible.
Perhaps so bro.
But I like mentioned in my video, my previous Boxster also lost grip at at rear at speeds of 90km/h with moderate drizzle on NKVE without going thru a puddle of water
so 4s tak bagus in a way :P
Haha, then it's like saying those AWD rally cars x bagus.
Depends on the drives bro!
@@ThePorscheLover what was the next tyre which you install?
The previous and the tyre after is the same, Michelin PS4S 👍🏼
@@ThePorscheLover weird, with this new tyre, the problem was solved, interesting it is.
Yea, it could be the rubber compound has degraded. But won't know for sure until you send to the lab for test 😬