Lawn-Boy 10356 Mower Self-Propelled Drive Repair
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ธ.ค. 2014
- Description of how the self-propelled drive works on some newer Lawn-Boy, Toro, and other mower models and my experience with fixing it. While I don't mention it in the video, this did, in fact, solve the problem.
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Thank you Mr 76 Hp! I read the description out of the Toro service manual (probably written by the proud engineers who designed it) explaining the “threefold function” of the wheel axel pinion drive.
Thanks so much for showing how it’s supposed to work. So much appreciation 🎉
Very glad I could help!
Just watched this. This is the ONLY video I could find that specifically deals with that little cog, and why it only partially engages on the wheel gear. Thanks for the excellent detail!
Very glad I could help!
@@76horsepower : Are you supposed to put any sort of grease in where the gear / key / spring / etc are b4 reassembling everything or leave de-grimed and clean? Excellent video.
@@bmccollum That’s a good question and, to be honest, I don’t know the official answer. I’d put a very small amount on the key, knowing that grease will attract dirt and dust.
Thank you, Matt. I have a 10550 that I bought new and have used A LOT for the past 13 years. I would not want to part with it. I had this clicking in the left rear wheel and found your video. I am in the process of cleaning everything and expect that to take care of my problem! Thanks, again.
Update; Cleaning all of the parts helped, but I found that the pinion gear was really worn, so I will need to replace that, but it should work like new then.
I have a 10323 Lawnboy. The engine has to be pulled from the frame in order to change out the drive belt. I ordered a new belt from Partstree and found that it kept throwing the new belt. As I looked over the problem I realized that Partstree had ent a grooved belt not a V belt. Always check your new part with the old part! Thank you for your hard work and very clear presentation.
That drive is also shared by the aluminum deck Toro mowers. This is actually the best description I could find of this drive system thank you.
Yep, I’ve worked on one of those as well. You’re welcome!
Thanks for the video! I have a 10323 and took all that drive stuff apart in December 2014 and put all new parts in there. It was hard to remember/tell from diagrams just how they really go back. Today working on 1 side that free wheels, now i see that i have not put them together in the right order but it has been working for 8 years, kind of. lol I don't think i need new parts but had bought them all again. This video helps see the correct order and how it really works together.
You’re welcome. Very glad I could help!
Thank you!!! I have been struggling to figure out how the rocker key was supposed to work, thanks for the close up breakdown.
You’re welcome
WOW!!! What a video. Perfect explanation and solution to my problem. I bought a 22261 commercial mower a week ago and one of the rear wheels won't free-wheel backwards when the transmission is in gear.
Seems like all I will need to do is take the keyway apart and make sure everything is cleaned and functioning correctly.
THANKS!!!
You're quite welcome. I hope that did the trick for you.
Thanks. The left wheel on my Lawn-Boy free wheels (no power). Upon taking it apart I found the key was missing. I'll have to order one.
Great video...my 20 year old 10525 is not acting up but always wondered how the drive worked. I bought a junk 10525 and 10547 for parts ....especially the wheels, cables and coil.....and someone has already had the drives apart I believe. Now I see how the system is supposed to work....after using a whole can of brake clean on the parts I can see what is actually missing.....good job...keep it up!
You're very welcome! Thanks for the kind words!
A big like button from me! Thank you for doing this video. I am doing the same job and I was scratching my head on how it worked. You walked right thru and showed how it really worked. The rocking pin now makes sense after seeing it demonstrated. I will be sure to clean the key ways. Ingenious design and really lasts a long time. Thank you again and take it easy when you are mowing.
You're very welcome. I'm so glad I've been able to help a few folks, yourself included.
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Great video! I seem to have the same issue with a 10323 model. The belt engages the transmission. The wheels spin when I lift the rear off the ground, but don't propel the machine when I touch them to the ground. I thought it was the belt, but it seems to work fine. It's all grimy everywhere, so I think this must be the issue. I never would have thought of it without your video. Can't wait to take it apart. Thank you!
Definitely sounds like this is your problem. You're very welcome! I hope this works for you!
Great video! The keyway explanation helped me fix in right. Thanks!
You're very welcome. Glad I could help!
Exactly what I needed, Thank much my friend!
+George Schwartze You're very welcome!
Thanks for posting! Had my one wheel drive problem fixed in 10 min
Matt Clark You’re welcome. Glad I could help!
Thanks, helped me get mine going again.
I just spent an hour messing with one of those. I think I put it back together wrong. Will use your video to get it right. Thanks!
Travis Poppler You’re welcome. I hope it helps!
@@76horsepower Awesome, it works correctly now. I had the white drive disc in backwards and the key way things in behind drive disk. It would drive but not free wheel. Thanks again
I have a little bit newer Lawnboy. I bought it new in 2012. It has the Kohler engine. I'm going to try this fix before buying a new one. Many thanks!
I hope this works for you!
I pulled the wheels off and they both looked good and clean. I didn't have a snap ring pliers so I just sprayed WD in there and kind of flushed them out. I then decided to pull the shield over the drive belt. Got the shield off and a piece of a wood chip flew out. I thought, it can't be this easy. Checked the belt and everything seemed fine. Fired it up and it works perfect. Piece of wood chip almost cost me!
So thanks for your video, it's not like me to actually tear something apart I will just go get a new one. I know, pathetic.. again many thanks!
I've "fixed" at least two mowers where the only problem was an obstruction on the drive belt as well. Sometimes you just have to try. Glad it worked out, and well done!
ok ...that was very instruct full . many thanks!!!
You're welcome.
Big Help! Thank you!
Random Repair You’re very welcome. Glad I could help!
Very helpful also on the Toro Super Recycler
Thanks much for the info!
I tried this on my 10323. After cleaning I made the mistake of greasing the axel,gear, washers and spring once I got it all back together. It will not work with grease because the rocker key is prevented from working as it should. I removed the parts and cleaned all the grease off with a toothbrush and brake cleaner. I cleaned the keyway and axel to remove all the grease. After putting it back together I spun the wheels which turned free either way. I thought that was odd but when I tried it everything worked as it should. No grease. (except at the grease zerk)
Thank you for this bit of information. I don't think I greased mine either, mostly because I didn't want it to attract dirt, but I don't recall at this point. This is a good reminder!
Excellent video. Explains the exact problem and drive function very clearly. The key on the left side of my lawnboy is broken which is a problem but I think that some parts might also be missing. question: are the spring and c-clip supposed to be on the left side assembly same as the right hand side? Thanks.
Christopher Hollinshead Thank you! If I still had that particular mower I could go look, but it was a repair that has long since moved on. I can say that the two sides were mirror images of each other, if that’s what you’re asking.
Thanks 76! Have a 1987 8157 that i found at an estate sale. Started it up today for the first time. Engine seems fine, however, no drive function. Hopefully this will help...
+Cattmann I hope this helps, and that this is your issue. It's a good thing when a real problem can be fixed with a little understanding, time, and elbow grease!
76horsepower
Bad news 76hp... Did a pair of videos on my Lawn-Boy...opened up the drive gear housing, it wasn't pretty. Really wish the previous owner had been more diligent in keeping the grease fresh. The mower still works great!..just no auto go'er. lol Still kept the parts, just need to find the new worm gears.
+Cattmann I've seen chewed-up worm gears too. I think even with good grease, it's just a matter of time...
76horsepower
Yeah, you're sending a brass worm gear up against a steel worm gear so if one fails for whatever reason, the brass gear will be the first to go. But why not design the drive with that inevitability...make the brass part a readily replaceable part instead of the catastrophic failure of four internal parts which for most people, marks the end of the mower's useful life...
Toro 20023 - same setup as the Lawn-Boy. This is all that can be left for me - replaced the rear wheels, belt, checked the transmission gears, all OK, but added more grease. Gear case behind shaft wheel each have grease fittings that I added a few squirts to, but self propel still not working. Going to try to clean up the KEY's and see if this resolves the problem.
Question however, once the key's are all cleaned up - you show how it engages with the pinion gear while dry/clean. Should the key's remain dry/clean, or should it have some grease involved in there somehow? I can see how it can easily get caked up in there, just curious on what I should do to reassemble everything.
I honestly don't remember whether I greased them in this instance, nor do I know what Lawn Boy recommends, but I'd lean against using more than a very small amount, as that'll be prone to attracting grass clipping and dirt. You've got the opportunity here for an experiment. Grease one and not the other and check them at the end of the mowing season. I'd love to hear the results!
Thanks for the video! Did this work for you?
+Jon K Yup, the self-propelled drive worked great after a good cleaning. I've seen several brands of mowers that use this same drive system in the months since, so I suspect it's not a rare problem, either.
I will be trying this. My Lawnboy 10515 self propel does not turn the wheels. I've check the gearbox and all gears spin including at the wheels when the belt is on. But the slightest bit of resistance on the wheels makes them stop. I assumed there should be grease on that part but obviously not.
Update: I did this. Did not fix my problem. The wheels spin in all gears when off ground but on ground they don't spin in any gear. I can hear a grinding noise, obviously one or more gears are worn. Wheel gears appear unworn to me. So I am guessing the main bevel pinion that connects to the belt is worn.
Update: I traced my problem to the driveshaft bushings on the gearbox. The bushing hole (one of two bushings) holding the driveshaft in the gearbox is worn and enlarged. When the belt is engaged the pressure moves the driveshaft out of alignment and the gears slip/disengage. I ordered new bushing (and a few other parts I think might be worn) from partstree and I hope this will fix problem.
Make that "Walk Power Mower Drive Systems Service Manuals". Sorrry !
Does it matter which way those pinion gears go on the shaft? They can be flipped around and I can't tell which side is which.
no, they are not interchangeable! one key will "rock" in the opposite direction of the other key.
hola amigo te escribo dede argentina . tengo una cortacesped toro modelo 20042 que tiene este mismo sistema en las rudas .. ya desarme y arme varias veces y mi problema es que la rueda derecha se traba cuando voy hacia atras. no puedo solucionar el problema. se traba solo una rueda cuando voy para atras .. puede ser el problema de la llave ?? puede ser la suciedad que haga que se trabe ?? necesito tu ayuda amigo . ya no se que mas hacer .
I wonder if this is wrong with mine. One wheel spins strong and the other spins and sticks. Gears look good so maybe its the key. Did you have similar symptoms?
Joe O That’s very similar to how this one started out. I had one wheel that would spin but had little power and the other wouldn’t spin at all. I hope this is your issue!
Thanks!
You’re welcome!
I used to love Lawnboys, the one you have is one of my favorites but i ordered two newer ones expecting a similar design, but man have they changed to shit, plastic wheel drive, that keeps breaking down to 1 wheel drive, forgot the what kind of motor it has I think it was made in china, ran alright the first year but after that it was hard starting, this company really went to shit on their quality standard, ill never buy a new Lawnboy again, but ill buy older used ones, stay away from the new ones, wheel drive system is WAY worse and flimsy then what you are dealing with
No doubt. My personal Lawn Boy mower was made in 1988, and I have no intention of getting something newer.
Apparently the link given earlier isn't working so worst comes to worst just do a Google search with "Wall Power Mower Drive Systems Service Manual" and that ought to do the trick.
Thanks my toro sr4 is that way too.
Did you get yours sorted out?
@@76horsepower yes
@@robsarchery9679 Great! Glad it worked out!
I have a model 10335 with the same issue. I cleaned it up and am hopeful for it to work again. I noticed after putting everything back together that the wheel sometimes would lock when rotating it backwards. Do I have the wheel too tight or is there something else that is making the key engage when rotating the wheel?
I suspect that if the key doesn't lower itself fully - or if you back up too quickly - the edge of the key could catch and lock the wheel as if it was rotating forward. I don't think the wheel tightness would make any difference - unless that's stopping the key from lowering all the way. Unfortunately, that mower belonged to a neighbor and I don't have any like it in the garage at the moment to check. If you do sort it out, please let me know the solution.
I was hoping this would be my issue on a 10324 but alas, when I spin the pulley the shafts don't move at all. Must be some problem in the transmission itself. :-(
vfr800ification It sounds like it, unfortunately. I’ve never taken one apart, but I expect they’re not serviceable. Hopefully you can find a donor. Let me know what you discover.
@@76horsepower Problem found and solved. The final gear attached to the axle has a pin in it which either came out or sheared. I didn't find the pin until after I had put a cotter pin in its place. Not sure it has the shear strength of the pin but easy enough to replace if it breaks again. Just remove the 4 bolts on the bottom of the transmission and remove the cover. Only grease inside this box so no mess will occur. I mistakenly took off the wheels again trying to remove the entire axle which isn't necessary. One thing I discovered while removing both wheels is that rocking key has a left side and a right side so don't mix them up.
@@vfr800ification Great news! Thanks for the update!
Like Toro sr4 when it drives forward that key kickes out and drive
Yep. Pretty smart!
The 85 - 87 (Or more years) of Toro GTS series lawnmower uses the same key/friction drive on both rear wheels. You have to clean and lubricate every two years or so, but the grease zerk allows a certain amount of lube to squeeze into the cam area. The needle bearing inside the hub is the main benefit of lube. The first item is a flat washer with 2 ears then a rubber friction ring on the height adjusting hub. The white plastic rub ring actuates the shaft key to cam outward to engage the drive gear. Remember, going forward, the gear rotates backwards or counter-clockwise to drive the wheel forward. With the clip, spring, key & gear assembled, it places inward pressure to cause the friction ring to rotate counter-clockwise for drive, but if the mower is pulled backward, the gear has to release. That clockwise motion causes the friction ring to retract the key to allow the gear to move freely. It only moves about 1/4" (8mm) to raise the key for gear engagement or release the gear as it falls flat, pulling away from the drive gear. This action is the same for the other side. Clean and mark an area, then draw an arrow of direction for installation of the white plastic ring & key which uses the other slot. Remember, the wheel is the "Driven" gear and was metal during those years until the Personal Pace model was introduced using plastic gears on the wheels and the drive gear slides onto two flats of the axle without any key or cam action, much less a friction ring. Hope this makes sense as I am not a small engine tech, but a retired ASE Master who worked on vehicles for 30+ years.
P.S. Re-tread your drive tires... Get a used wide timing belt from your local repair shop, clean the wheel and back side of the a cut T-belt by sanding. I use 80 grit on a belt sander in the vise. Wipe clean with thinner, acetone or brake clean. When dry, pre-cut the belt to fit the wheels O.D., apply contact cement like "Weld-Wood" to both parts, when dry, apply belt with teeth out around the wheel. Hold in place with rope, old belt or wire and clamp tight. Leave in vise overnight. Install on mower...Enjoy better traction on a $40 wheel for free. Mine last 2-3 years.
I appreciate the details. And that tread replacement is a really good idea. I've got some old belts laying around that should work great!
Others may have a stationary belt grinder, but I built a wooden saddle that my belt sander sits into. Pinch in the vise, you can control the sanding of the back side of the belt & wheel, then clean. It's just like a tire patch using contact cement. If cut just right, a cleaned T-belt will touch end to end where I add more contact cement for strength, but practice dry to get a good fit before gluing. It is more traction than a new wheel.
On these drive gears, make note that the cam that fits into the white plastic friction wheel has a left and right. They just lay flat when pulling backward by hand. If installed backward, one or both sides will lock-up when pulling backwards by hand. It is a little over engineered.
I bought 2 junk Lawnboy mowers with great wheels for $50....my current wheels lasted 20 years of continuous use....now time for a replacement. I plan to make my 10525 last as long as I do!
Looks like many of the parts diagrams show the white plastic clutch washer flipped with the recessed face outwards, not correct....when you take these apart for cleaning take photos...do not mix parts right to left....!
mark steele Yep. I tend to do one side at a time for that reason.
That might b my toro timemaster problem
Connie White I hope! There are a number of drive systems out there, but this one seems fairly common.
76horsepower Didn't work. My toro doesn't have that Key thing. I'm going to try a pinion gear & new wheel. Right side works fine & I can see the right side axel spinning.
Keeping the camera on the insertion of the key rocker would been helpful. Geez
The gear turns the opposite of the wheel.