This reminds me of how for Ocarina of Time 3D, the developers wanted to keep the majority of glitches intact. They reasoned that it would be depriving new players of fun gameplay options and thus only removed the game-ruining glitches.
This might be a reason of stopping glitch hunters from using wrong warps or wall clips. *Does the Kirby's Adventure stone credits warp still working...?*
And something curious is that I discovered that young link can be used for adult battles in the temples and without damaging the game after having the medal.
The main difference here is that NWC has leaderboards and competitive aspects. It makes sense to make they'd default to glitchless runs as not everyone knows about, or even do, these glitches.
Yet this still patched a lot of glitches that lined up with a pretty old speedrun anyways. It was just an excuse for why there's still glitches in a direct port.
directly fixing them would probably mess up other parts of the games so that's probably why instead of being directly fixed they're detected externally by the "emulator"
@@ChunkSchuldinga not fully I think. They definitely treat their employees well and are pretty pro union, despite not having one. But a lot of the soul around how Nintendo interacted with fans died with iwata
My best guess as to why some of these glitches are patched out is because Nintendo wanted the challenges to be as accurate to the ones in the actual world championships, and doing these types of glitches in an official competition is most likely considered cheating.
First of all, I like how they call the glitches "strategies", albeit "unavailable strategies". Second, how have I not seen all of these glitches before?!
My best guess for this is that the devs put in place a bunch of checkmarks and if you don't hit them in the right order the game rewinds you. Also they marked other areas as out of bounds for the same reason. That way the devs can prevent skips while not having to worry about breaking the game by trying to fix old stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if speedrunners found a way to trick the game into thinking they'd already crossed certain checkmarks though like what happens in Mario Kart skips.
Yeah they've clearly just enforced a blanket rule of "no out of bounds" which is an easy way to stop a lot of tricks/skips. Movement-based things like double jumps are harder to check for or patch out of the game
All of the glitches they patched out are things I could detect myself while looking at the ram. These games were pretty simple. It seems like a lot of what they left in were things that would be harder to patch out without risking stepping on the intended mechanics. Like they could patch out specific SMB3 wall clips but wall clipping in general exists for a reason, to keep you from getting stuck in a wall.
Patching out would also require them to touch code that is 40 years old, it would be quite the effort to give this to someone and try to fix it. Even for one game that would be difficult to do. Doing RAM Watches to do detect all of these instance is something I could do alone in less than a month, it seems fairly straight forward.
@@Sarrg Agreed, they basically did what I would have done. Though I might have been a bit more charitable and just rolled back the last few seconds of gameplay.
I appreciate that they phrase it as “strategy unavailable” rather than “glitch not allowed”, making it seem less like they don’t want you to have fun and more like they want a fair game
@@MastrDante glitches tend to be very hard to pull off. Most speedrunners spend hundreds of hours practicing these skips. Not allowing them makes it a little easier for the average player to compete
@@Droid18Beta that's not what fairness is, removing someone's ability to a technique that is available to all players isnt fair. It's quite the opposite. It's like saying 3point shots aren't allowed anymore because it's too hard, yet we have a few select players who achieve this level of skill.
they don't want to punish people for glitching and make it feel not valid for the speed-running community, but they also don't want to highlight breaking their game as the dominate strategy when the game is being streamed and played.
@@MastrDanteyoure thinking sbout this wrong middle school basketball team vs the nba, would you allow 3 point shots there and just let them dominate? theyre going to win anyways, but at least give the middle schoolers a fighting chance
The patterns I am seeing on all the "Strategy Unavailable" scenarios are 1) sequence breaking and 2) entering areas the player should not be able to. That's why a simple double-jump glitch in Super Mario Bros. is allowed - it does not inherently violate either of the rules. That's also why stuff like the fast carpet glitch in Super Mario Bros. 2 works - it does not, on its own, allow for access to unintended areas, unlike Cave Skip, which effectively allows us to skip breaking the rocks - something that'd be pretty easy for developers to check on. The Boom Boom shortcut in Super Mario Bros. 3 seems to be blocked as soon as Mario starts moving into the wall, since Mario is entering an area he should not be able to. However, it's not the same story with the Metroid door clip. Samus can normally go down there, but not if she hasn't gotten the Morph Ball Bombs to be able to break the rocks above that area. If she's down there without them, that would imply the player has performed some exploit to get there, hence, the "Strategy Unavailable" screen. Now, as for why it's not implemented in a similar fashion, where the screen shows up as soon as the player clips Samus into the ceiling... who knows? Or, I could be totally off-base here, and all these glitch blockers are implemented in a way bespoke to each game. I think the Zelda scrolling glitch is super interesting, since you don't have to be doing anything useful with it for the glitch prevention to kick in. However, it definitely has potential to cheese dungeons and other areas, so I can see why the devs just wanted to shut it down altogether. Also, I suspect maybe a screen wrap is detectable somehow. That could also be a way for them to stop the Metroid shortcut. They'd have to be wary of games with intentional screen wrapping, though. Who knows?
Presumably a lot of these are handled by just designating certain areas as OOB, and certain forms of positional movement as illegal, eg the screen wraps either send Link OOB onto the UI, or they make him jump from one edge to the other without a screen transition, Pit fails to enter the room from the correct entrance so trying to leave via the ladder is illegal, Samus has the bombs in that challenge iirc, but the screen wrap effect is due to overflowing her vertical position, so you get another coordinate movement that can be checked the ceiling clip is likely not checked for the same reason Mario doesn't immediately block you for a wall jump, the game isn't exactly the most resilient against clipping into walls in the first place, the issue arises when you start gaining real movement from it
@@syrelian Exactly what I thought, mostly OOB checks. Which is why you can start glitches like the Kid icarus and Metroid glitches but they don't trigger until you are fully OOB, or in the case of KI, leaving through an area you're not supposed to.
Would be cool, but unlike nintendo. As true as it would be to the spirit of the speedrunning community, I couldn't see them including a mode where they tacitly endorse using glitches, even if it's for decades old games.
But they don't. It's this specific setting, where it's not allowed. It's more like, "we're setting rules and regulating play on how to complete this challenge". It's like having tournament rules and saying, "they don't let me play how I want". All bc you want to use a banned aspect or use a different rule set from what's being used.
@@ZipplyZane Actually, it does. Because you literally said why they would have that implementation in. Because it just makes you trapped in an infinite looping stage.
It clearly shows that this switch game is just a couple of NES games compiled together, I knew it wasn't worth the money anyways, nothing new has been added apart from speed run settings or something 🤷🏾♀️
suppose they added a special category that allowed the banned strategies, so the mega-shortcut gangs can still break the rules as they please without ruining it for those who choose to play fair
If the bug exists in all copies of the game, using it is playing fair. Because everybody has the opportunity to use it. If you can't do it, it's a skill issue.
I was gonna ask how frame-perfect ability mixing was handled in Kirby's Adventure, but I noticed the KA challenges are specifically chosen sections where it's either impossible to ability mix, or you can only do it at the end where it would cost more time than its worth. Which is honestly pretty clever. They seemingly specifically avoided making people have to frame-perfect a UFO or Wheel for the best times like Speedrunners do.
It makes sense that the double-jump glitches are allowed; they'd probably be the most difficult to try to detect without hitting false positives. They also have a high difficulty, low-reward factor to them. Same goes for the pidgit carpet, which arguably is not even as fast as abusing jumping to snap the carpet's position in place further.
I remember seeing the long ladder glitch done in nes remix for the "beat dk as Link" challenge. I always wondered how that was done... Honestly I wish you could get some secret pin for getting an amount of "strategy unavailable" messages.
The fact that the glitches are still in, but just accounted for with the "Strategy Unavailable" screen is fascinating. Perhaps there might be something like an online event centered around performing and perfecting these glitches, as a way to teach players who might not know or remember them about not just their existence, but how to pull them off
People complaining about how this is fun police or something similar, you’re right but this is a competitive game even if it is a collection of decades old games having the leaderboards dominated by someone who just knew how to break the game due to reading a wiki page isn’t fun either
Nintendo clearly worked to nullify these glitches because lots of players used them to get to the top of the leaderboards in NES Remix and wanted to level the playing field. While playing with glitches is fun on single player games the moment you're competing against other players if you start using them you have an unfair advantage.
But it's not like the speedrunners won't top the leaderboards anyways. It'll just be those who run glitchless. Though I did read the leaderboards are a weekly thing? So maybe the speedrunners won't bother doing it more than once.
@@ZipplyZane Yeah, but speedrunners that don't use glitches are still winning based on skill and not cheating. Most people don't feel upset for losing against someone who's simply demonstrably better. But if someone wins using a fringe strategy that's not part of the actual rules of game people are likely to get angry, even if it's repeatable, because it goes against the spirit of the whole thing.
@@Dreadjaws If a speedrunner's winning on skill alone, it doesn't matter if they're using glitches or not. They'll beat you if you both use glitches, and they'll beat you if neither of you do. Some of them might even beat you even if you're using glitches and they're not!
@@gemhunter498 The fact that glitches are not contemplated in the established rules of the game and you have to find out about them from external sources, for one. Also, if you can't understand why people might prefer to play a game under its rules then I cannot help you.
I think how it is calculated is your position in a map. So for Super Mario Bros, you _might_ be able to get to the Minus World by getting ahead of the screen without clipping.
I would have to guess that devs put in place a collision detection. Wall locations mapped out and if you end up inside a wall, it sets a specific trigger for a reset. This would explain why all of the clips fail, including the Kid Icarus one (Trigger being using the ladder), while Mario 2 ones all work with the exception of Cave Skip (the only one that actually involves a clip).
I think given the nature of the game, it seems pretty fair to disallow glitches that are just going to dominate the leaderboards every time. Things like the backwards hop to speed up mario faster and wall hops are still allowed so its not anti advanced play, i just think they didnt want anything that is going to lead to like 50 guys tied for first in every match because of completely outside information
I was suprised how Nintendo even prevented the minus world glitch, but not double jump... Also, i think the carpet speed glitch also ocurrs if you let the carpet go offscreen low enough...🤔 Basically, certain starts are ALMOST intended.
Well, Minus World could easily be blocked by detecting what field Mario is in. They likely placed a barrier within the wall and that barrier is what rewinds you. The others would be difficult to manage; imagine getting sent back after regular gameplay because they thought you performed a glitch.
I could see the double jump being viewed by Nintendo as a special technique and not neccesarily a glitch, at least not on the same level as the Minus World.
I was wondering if any of these worked while I was playing through these challenges. I'm glad to see someone do it. Since they took the time to remove these glitches it would of atleast been cool if they rewarded you a secret medal for each one the first time you performed them
There is a less known, and very hard to do, glitch in Zelda II known as Encounter Skip (or Fairy Feet) that allows to skip a side scrolling zone by exiting on the wrong side. Basically, in the challenge where you have to dodge the bubbles, you can exit to the left and make the game think you exited to the right, placing you under the encounter spot on the map. And EVEN this is blocked! It works in Zelda II itself but NWC detects the wrong exit being used and rewinds you every time.
How do you do this? Looking online I could only find instructions for doing it with fairy but no detailed instructions on how to do it without. Tried getting as close as I can with and pressing right, and shuffling around beforehand in the hopes of getting the correct subpixel but I can’t seem to get it to work. Do I have to do something with using my sword to stop at the correct place or something? Would love to try it myself or at least see a video of it being done on NWC NES Edition for completion’s sake
@@HexRey I use it in a NES Remix 2 challenge that you can find on my channel. It’s the challenge with the two side scrolling sections you must go through to reach a village. I will try to record it properly on NWC but it doesn’t help with the 30fps limited video captures. On my video you will also be able to see the inputs so that should help!
@@HexRey It’s pretty hard as you must not be moving to the end of the screen when exiting as you turn back, and the placement needs to be sub-pixel perfect so I was pretty lucky to get it done twice in a row in the NES Remix 2 challenge.
This really comes across as one of two ways: The first being that they put checks for collision in place to rewind you if you abused it, the second being that they REALLY just did not put much effort into fixing SMB2/did not know of all of the bugs with it. Though in reality it actually comes across as just levelling the playing field for people of all skill levels without using bugs.
I wonder if this is all the result of a generic error handler added to the game to handle things like the player going out-of-bounds? Or if Nintendo had to specially add flags to detect when the player is trying to employ a known glitch? If it's the latter, I wish they had used a funnier error than "strategy unavailable" something like "nice try" would have been a neat Easter egg.
@@drewlincoln8110 1984 is a book set in a dystopian world In that world thoughts are policed, and censorship is a big thing I haven’t read Fahrenheit 451, but at the very least I know it’s also about a dystopian world
The winners of the dk last week challenger used a glitch, and I will say, that was frustrating. I can clearly see why nintendo tried to path all the real shortcut glitchs
Wouldnt the easiest solution be to add a category for glitches alongside the current one that doesn’t allow 90% of glitches? They’re already acknowledged by the game itself and can be patched further down the line if anything is found. Maybe make the glitch mode available if the player has gotten all S ranks in a series or something
lol i saw that. i can see nintendo hq yelling at the devs about that going "HEY WTF IS THIS I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO REMOVE THE GLITCHES!" "We did! we just couldnt remove THAT one!" "WHY NOT!?" "Because the game is 44 years old and it's easy to break, old man!" ".....say that again, I dare you."
New Rule: if a glitch isn't blocked by the "Strategy Unavailable" message, then it is something that was intended by the developers in all official releases.
These are essentially NES roms running on emulation, removing the glitches would take hacking the roms themselves which takes a lot more effort than just implementing checks to make certain players are clearing the challenge.
You just accidentally go through a wall, and go in a pipe, and suddenly you’re trapped in an endless ocean, where you can never drown, and your only way to die is of old age (the NES version, not the FDS version
From what I'm guessing. Nintendo is less actually checking for individual glitches, and more doing sanity checks, and screaming when one fails. Things like a character being wallbound for too long, a character sprite being drawn oob, or the player skipping steps in a progress checklist. Which would explain why the two smb2 bugs were allowed to fly, and why the kid icarus wall skip didn't nail you until the next screen.
6 is probably for obvious reasons, since the glitch could accidentally appear and mess up speedruns and confuse players a lot because they wouldn't know what happened, but the most obvious glitches that require a series of steps are banned.
I think it’s neat that they still exist but some are not allowed, it would create too big of a gap between normal players that don’t mind grinding normal stuff for good times and the actual speedrunners who already knows how to clip through all the walls etc, it wouldn’t be fun if it was just a second leaderboard for normal any% runs so it’s good that it’s acknowledged since a lot of people know about it but don’t really want to learn it :)
Understanding which glitches are allowed is very simple. Every kind of noclip and entering areas you shouldn't reach in a specific mission is not allowed.
I find it particularly strange that some of these checks exist, specifically the Minus World glitch because doing that would be slower than getting to the Warp Zone normally. Still, it's funny to see these acknowledged by Nintendo.
I suppose the reason some of them like the glitched item holding or double-jump aren't patched is because those glitches are hard to detect via the emulator. For most of these, they could just check 'if the RAM address that holds the player's position ends up in these bounds, presume they've exploited it somehow and reset the challenge'. The item attachment glitch is a more deep-rooted flaw with the grab mechanic, and you'd need to have multiple specifically-triggered breakpoints to detect it happening externally, so it remains unfixed.
Huh... So they basically put barriers, guidelines or just specific scripts within those games to tell to reset the mission if the player goes through it?? Like an "anti-cheat" for a sequence break, since it looks like it. Nintendo still showing how you have to play their games. Classic Nintendo houserules... :') Update after reading the comments section: Yeah, more people see patterns the way how Nintendo tried to tackle this. Oh well. Was still a fun video to watch, the more you know!
There's also the credits warp glitch that can be done in Kirby's Adventure in 1-1 And Done, but since pausing doesn't work (it cancels out the input entirely) all that happens is what would normally happen if you mistimed the start input: the game crashes. But funnily enough, there's actually a error screen in-game for if such an occurrence were to happen.
Considering the tags you can give yourself have some dark humour, this all hints towards the fact that this developer might’ve actually been a rare fun one
I'm guessing the game has certain "position checks" in place to determine these glitches. Like, for the Minus World glitch, it probably checks whether Mario overlaps a certain point in the wall, for Donkey Kong it'll check if Mario leaves the bottom of the screen, etc. For things like the Wall Jump, Double Jump and Item Attachment glitches, these checks are much harder to put in place since they can be performed more or less anywhere, which I'm guessing would require them to put a lot more variables in place than they're willing to put effort into. The Kid Icarus shortcut is another interesting example of this. Naturally, they wouldn't be able to put a position check on the area in the wall, since you SHOULD be able to pass through that gap normally, provided that the wall is broken. So instead, I guess the game checks whether or not the wall is broken by the time you go down the ladder to the next screen.
I do think this is the best way of fixing it. It wild just be fun if they added an option to switch between “Normal Strategies” and “All Strategie” so that glitched times can be used, but they would only be compared against themselves, and you can have people race eachother using normal strategies that don’t want to use the out of bounds glitches. Would be a fun like a speedrun leaderboard with it being glitchless and Glitches allowed option on certain speedrun Leaderboards
So instead of patching the games so you can't do these, they just added ways to detect and punish players for using them. Guess it wasn't worth the effort.
The Donkey Kong long ladder glitch was in the NES remix. It's how most did the challenge where Mario is replaced with Link from the 1st Legend of Zelda. I didn't know how to do it, so I made it to the top without jumping.
If i’m not wrong, the flagpole glitch still works for the most part, so the lowest time in SMB would be a 4:59 with 4:54.xx strategies I wonder if any speedrunners will try and get that sub 5 score
they could totally detect and rewind both flagpole glitches. both the normal one and the bullet bill glitch. I'd count the number of frames since hitting the flagpole, and if mario has not scrolled the screen far enough after, "STRATEGY UNVAIALBLE". unless of course, the just stpo the timer when you hit the flagpole anyway, in which case it doesn't matter.
If I had to guess, the games can intercept certain bytes of data to double check whether or not you're doing something you're supposed to be doing. I think that's why things like the minus world clip, the DK long ladder, and metroid door clip are all detected so quickly: they can probably intercept your position value and determine you're in a place you're not supposed to be. That's also probably why things like the double jump or wall jump and the fast carpet are allowed, since there's not exactly a state you can check easily. It would likely require actual dynamic calculations to not misfire. I think the reason why the SMB2 skip and the Kid Icarus clip ALMOST seem to work is because it seems to be attached to two checks: for Kid Icarus, it likely checks if you came in through the door preceding the ladder to the boss. For SMB2, though, I would have to guess it checks HOW you came into the boss room, since normally you can only go through the door that way, but that might cause problems if they have a challenge where you do not take the shortcut and climb the vine.
I never did get to test my findings on this particular version. It's good to have this confirmation that the devs truly didn't know some of the things I knew back then. :-)
It’s pretty obvious because any glitches that involve skipping through parts of the game (especially clipping through walls) is not allowed because it is an unfair advantage in a competitive game. Respect from Nintendo to know about these glitches and knowing which ones are allowed or not.
I think I know why some glitches are allowed and some are not. In SMB2, the cave skip isn't allowed because the game checks if you used the door or not. But the double jump glitch is allowed, because the game only checks, if you're entering the door, doesn't matter how and not how many times you jump. The carpet glitch is also allowed, because the game doesn't check how fast you are with the carpet, or if you even used the carpet. It only checks if you entered the vase, grab the key and opened the door.
"STRATEGY UNAVALAIBLE" feels like the moment when you mess up real bad a glitch and the game crashes for the first time
This reminds me of how for Ocarina of Time 3D, the developers wanted to keep the majority of glitches intact. They reasoned that it would be depriving new players of fun gameplay options and thus only removed the game-ruining glitches.
This might be a reason of stopping glitch hunters from using wrong warps or wall clips.
*Does the Kirby's Adventure stone credits warp still working...?*
And something curious is that I discovered that young link can be used for adult battles in the temples and without damaging the game after having the medal.
The main difference here is that NWC has leaderboards and competitive aspects.
It makes sense to make they'd default to glitchless runs as not everyone knows about, or even do, these glitches.
@@micheal7932 Yeah that's completely fair, considering how different the games are
Yet this still patched a lot of glitches that lined up with a pretty old speedrun anyways. It was just an excuse for why there's still glitches in a direct port.
So they kept the glitches in but they also troll you by rewinding the game?
Damn, that's evil.
directly fixing them would probably mess up other parts of the games so that's probably why instead of being directly fixed they're detected externally by the "emulator"
They're emulated games with cheats on, why would they even care to fix the glitches
@@pollinete7704Nintendo hates fun
@@littlemacisunderrated412Facts. Nintendo died with Iwata.
@@ChunkSchuldinga not fully I think. They definitely treat their employees well and are pretty pro union, despite not having one.
But a lot of the soul around how Nintendo interacted with fans died with iwata
What if you
wanted to go to Heaven
but God said:
"Strategy unavailable.
Rewinding..."
Infinite lives.
I can just see the meme template
Pure poetry. This brings a tear to my eye.
Resets to the start of the year
This is your brain on drugs
6:26
The game was like: “You thought we’d let that slide huh? Nah, run it back.”
The game really said "NUH UH!"
Its like the devleopers were like "Oh no not this time. You play by the rules!"
"YOU THOUGHT?"
"Wait, you got there from _there?_ YOU BROKE IT" ⏪
PSYCH!
My best guess as to why some of these glitches are patched out is because Nintendo wanted the challenges to be as accurate to the ones in the actual world championships, and doing these types of glitches in an official competition is most likely considered cheating.
Can’t believe Nintendo doesn’t want me to use ace to turn Mario bros 3 into an art program
Nah they just hate fun
Also I can't ENTIRELY blame them for this, it wouldn't hurt to JUST play the game the old fashioned way (glitchless and no exploits)
@@ADudeWithAChannel yeah I'm sure casual players would have a blast doing the sub-pixel perfect wall clips in Mario 1 to get S rank
@@TopOfAllWorlds I'm half joking dude. I know there's actual reasons to it
But Nintendo does seem to hate fun sometimes
First of all, I like how they call the glitches "strategies", albeit "unavailable strategies". Second, how have I not seen all of these glitches before?!
Someone should speedrun getting all “unavailable strategies”, that‘d be funny
Speedruning "Failing Speedruns"
Yes it would.
@@Widdy123 Unavailable%
Would be fun seing this
Now that's a name
My best guess for this is that the devs put in place a bunch of checkmarks and if you don't hit them in the right order the game rewinds you. Also they marked other areas as out of bounds for the same reason. That way the devs can prevent skips while not having to worry about breaking the game by trying to fix old stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if speedrunners found a way to trick the game into thinking they'd already crossed certain checkmarks though like what happens in Mario Kart skips.
Yeah they've clearly just enforced a blanket rule of "no out of bounds" which is an easy way to stop a lot of tricks/skips. Movement-based things like double jumps are harder to check for or patch out of the game
Not just out of bounds, some games like SMB1 use the screen position
All of the glitches they patched out are things I could detect myself while looking at the ram. These games were pretty simple.
It seems like a lot of what they left in were things that would be harder to patch out without risking stepping on the intended mechanics. Like they could patch out specific SMB3 wall clips but wall clipping in general exists for a reason, to keep you from getting stuck in a wall.
Patching out would also require them to touch code that is 40 years old, it would be quite the effort to give this to someone and try to fix it. Even for one game that would be difficult to do.
Doing RAM Watches to do detect all of these instance is something I could do alone in less than a month, it seems fairly straight forward.
@@Sarrg Agreed, they basically did what I would have done. Though I might have been a bit more charitable and just rolled back the last few seconds of gameplay.
I appreciate that they phrase it as “strategy unavailable” rather than “glitch not allowed”, making it seem less like they don’t want you to have fun and more like they want a fair game
I’m sorry but in what way does this make it more fair? The strategy is available to all players so why wouldn’t that be fair?
@@MastrDante glitches tend to be very hard to pull off. Most speedrunners spend hundreds of hours practicing these skips. Not allowing them makes it a little easier for the average player to compete
@@Droid18Beta that's not what fairness is, removing someone's ability to a technique that is available to all players isnt fair. It's quite the opposite. It's like saying 3point shots aren't allowed anymore because it's too hard, yet we have a few select players who achieve this level of skill.
they don't want to punish people for glitching and make it feel not valid for the speed-running community, but they also don't want to highlight breaking their game as the dominate strategy when the game is being streamed and played.
@@MastrDanteyoure thinking sbout this wrong
middle school basketball team vs the nba, would you allow 3 point shots there and just let them dominate? theyre going to win anyways, but at least give the middle schoolers a fighting chance
The patterns I am seeing on all the "Strategy Unavailable" scenarios are 1) sequence breaking and 2) entering areas the player should not be able to. That's why a simple double-jump glitch in Super Mario Bros. is allowed - it does not inherently violate either of the rules. That's also why stuff like the fast carpet glitch in Super Mario Bros. 2 works - it does not, on its own, allow for access to unintended areas, unlike Cave Skip, which effectively allows us to skip breaking the rocks - something that'd be pretty easy for developers to check on.
The Boom Boom shortcut in Super Mario Bros. 3 seems to be blocked as soon as Mario starts moving into the wall, since Mario is entering an area he should not be able to. However, it's not the same story with the Metroid door clip. Samus can normally go down there, but not if she hasn't gotten the Morph Ball Bombs to be able to break the rocks above that area. If she's down there without them, that would imply the player has performed some exploit to get there, hence, the "Strategy Unavailable" screen. Now, as for why it's not implemented in a similar fashion, where the screen shows up as soon as the player clips Samus into the ceiling... who knows? Or, I could be totally off-base here, and all these glitch blockers are implemented in a way bespoke to each game. I think the Zelda scrolling glitch is super interesting, since you don't have to be doing anything useful with it for the glitch prevention to kick in. However, it definitely has potential to cheese dungeons and other areas, so I can see why the devs just wanted to shut it down altogether.
Also, I suspect maybe a screen wrap is detectable somehow. That could also be a way for them to stop the Metroid shortcut. They'd have to be wary of games with intentional screen wrapping, though. Who knows?
This was exactly my theory as I watched the video
Presumably a lot of these are handled by just designating certain areas as OOB, and certain forms of positional movement as illegal, eg the screen wraps either send Link OOB onto the UI, or they make him jump from one edge to the other without a screen transition, Pit fails to enter the room from the correct entrance so trying to leave via the ladder is illegal, Samus has the bombs in that challenge iirc, but the screen wrap effect is due to overflowing her vertical position, so you get another coordinate movement that can be checked
the ceiling clip is likely not checked for the same reason Mario doesn't immediately block you for a wall jump, the game isn't exactly the most resilient against clipping into walls in the first place, the issue arises when you start gaining real movement from it
@@syrelian Exactly what I thought, mostly OOB checks. Which is why you can start glitches like the Kid icarus and Metroid glitches but they don't trigger until you are fully OOB, or in the case of KI, leaving through an area you're not supposed to.
except that fast carpet does allow an unintended skip.
that said, i don't think there's a challenge that it would actually help on, and that's probably why there isn't one.
There's something oddly terrifying about that "Strategy Unavailable" screen.
Don't you stray from what was intended for you
straight out of a fake anti piracy video lol
Nintendo be like: "Fun detected"
spongebob and patrick on a small rollercoaster.gif
Not sure I'd say terrifying but it's weird. I'm glad they actually did this since every strategy would be using boring glitches to skip everything.
I wish there were two categories, one for glitchless and one for glitchy shortcuts
Now that would be cool
Would be cool, but unlike nintendo.
As true as it would be to the spirit of the speedrunning community, I couldn't see them including a mode where they tacitly endorse using glitches, even if it's for decades old games.
Unfortunately Nintendo hates acknowledging their games have bugs.
mjdxp5688 HOMEBREW!!!!
@@mjdxp5688Not in the 2000's
It's kind of funny that Nintendo literally said "No! This isn't how you're supposed to play the game" when doing the Minus World trick
And they allow us to make Save Points when playing their games on NSO.
But they don't. It's this specific setting, where it's not allowed. It's more like, "we're setting rules and regulating play on how to complete this challenge". It's like having tournament rules and saying, "they don't let me play how I want". All bc you want to use a banned aspect or use a different rule set from what's being used.
@@Honeneko. I know. I'm aware of it, and it makes perfect sense. I just think it's funny to think of it like that.
That's the one that doesn't make a lot of sense, since all it does is get you trapped in an infinitely looping stage. There's no advantage gained.
@@ZipplyZane Actually, it does. Because you literally said why they would have that implementation in. Because it just makes you trapped in an infinite looping stage.
It’s amazing how some of these glitches still work perfectly. Thanks for digging into gaming history and sharing these classic moments
It clearly shows that this switch game is just a couple of NES games compiled together, I knew it wasn't worth the money anyways, nothing new has been added apart from speed run settings or something 🤷🏾♀️
Is this NES World Cup game for Switch good for single player mode? Or multiplayer only?
suppose they added a special category that allowed the banned strategies, so the mega-shortcut gangs can still break the rules as they please without ruining it for those who choose to play fair
then again this is nintendo we're talking about
@@yaysuutook the words right out of my mouth
That already exist, its the regular speedruns that people do since ages
If the bug exists in all copies of the game, using it is playing fair. Because everybody has the opportunity to use it. If you can't do it, it's a skill issue.
I think it's funnier to make people learn how to play the game well the intended way
I was gonna ask how frame-perfect ability mixing was handled in Kirby's Adventure, but I noticed the KA challenges are specifically chosen sections where it's either impossible to ability mix, or you can only do it at the end where it would cost more time than its worth. Which is honestly pretty clever. They seemingly specifically avoided making people have to frame-perfect a UFO or Wheel for the best times like Speedrunners do.
It makes sense that the double-jump glitches are allowed; they'd probably be the most difficult to try to detect without hitting false positives. They also have a high difficulty, low-reward factor to them. Same goes for the pidgit carpet, which arguably is not even as fast as abusing jumping to snap the carpet's position in place further.
I remember seeing the long ladder glitch done in nes remix for the "beat dk as Link" challenge. I always wondered how that was done...
Honestly I wish you could get some secret pin for getting an amount of "strategy unavailable" messages.
That would be such a cool idea for an achievement. Unfortunately, Nintendo do be Nintendo sometimes
“It’s a secret to everybody” makes the best title for it!
@@adamnakamura8003 I originally thought of "The Elusive Exploiter", but that's a great title.
@ZTimeGamingYT what do you mean by this?
@@raymaniqe1906 He's a Nintendo hater. Don't mind him
The fact that the glitches are still in, but just accounted for with the "Strategy Unavailable" screen is fascinating. Perhaps there might be something like an online event centered around performing and perfecting these glitches, as a way to teach players who might not know or remember them about not just their existence, but how to pull them off
Watching this video, it occured to me that I've never seen gameplay of the original Kid Icarus before
you need to lock in and watch northerlion
People complaining about how this is fun police or something similar, you’re right but this is a competitive game even if it is a collection of decades old games having the leaderboards dominated by someone who just knew how to break the game due to reading a wiki page isn’t fun either
these comments made me feel like my brain was melting genuinely with how many people say that nintendo sucks for patching out glitches
Nintendo clearly worked to nullify these glitches because lots of players used them to get to the top of the leaderboards in NES Remix and wanted to level the playing field. While playing with glitches is fun on single player games the moment you're competing against other players if you start using them you have an unfair advantage.
But it's not like the speedrunners won't top the leaderboards anyways. It'll just be those who run glitchless.
Though I did read the leaderboards are a weekly thing? So maybe the speedrunners won't bother doing it more than once.
@@ZipplyZane Yeah, but speedrunners that don't use glitches are still winning based on skill and not cheating. Most people don't feel upset for losing against someone who's simply demonstrably better. But if someone wins using a fringe strategy that's not part of the actual rules of game people are likely to get angry, even if it's repeatable, because it goes against the spirit of the whole thing.
@@Dreadjaws If a speedrunner's winning on skill alone, it doesn't matter if they're using glitches or not. They'll beat you if you both use glitches, and they'll beat you if neither of you do. Some of them might even beat you even if you're using glitches and they're not!
What about glitches is unfair? Both players have access to them, and it’s about what player is more skilled, not who can move their hands faster.
@@gemhunter498 The fact that glitches are not contemplated in the established rules of the game and you have to find out about them from external sources, for one. Also, if you can't understand why people might prefer to play a game under its rules then I cannot help you.
So technically, they all still work in this, but most of them lead to rewinding.
🤓
@@KimarnicHe just made a basic observation it's not that serious kid
@@KimarnicFound the Zoomer.
Speedrunner: *Glitches*
Nintendo: I'ma stop you right there
Calling it a glitch is an unavailable strategy.
@@Gameboygeniusit's not a bug, it's a strategy
It's like Nintendo saying "nuh uh, there'll be no glitching in this competition"😂
No sequence breaking. Glitches allowed. And yeah. That's how competitions are.
@@Honeneko. good point😅
I think how it is calculated is your position in a map.
So for Super Mario Bros, you _might_ be able to get to the Minus World by getting ahead of the screen without clipping.
I would have to guess that devs put in place a collision detection. Wall locations mapped out and if you end up inside a wall, it sets a specific trigger for a reset. This would explain why all of the clips fail, including the Kid Icarus one (Trigger being using the ladder), while Mario 2 ones all work with the exception of Cave Skip (the only one that actually involves a clip).
Honestly, i just appreciate how they decided to go, "no cheating!" Instead of just outright patching these.
I think given the nature of the game, it seems pretty fair to disallow glitches that are just going to dominate the leaderboards every time. Things like the backwards hop to speed up mario faster and wall hops are still allowed so its not anti advanced play, i just think they didnt want anything that is going to lead to like 50 guys tied for first in every match because of completely outside information
That's the funny thing
This game doesn't have leaderboards
:)
Or they could just make a glitch category…
@@colmecolwag it has leaderboards in every week's championship trials
I mean...then they should had put more effort and actually get rid of them lmao
@@SSFplayer2that would probably mess up the original game's code even more as they're actual NES roms instead of remakes
I was suprised how Nintendo even prevented the minus world glitch, but not double jump...
Also, i think the carpet speed glitch also ocurrs if you let the carpet go offscreen low enough...🤔
Basically, certain starts are ALMOST intended.
Well, Minus World could easily be blocked by detecting what field Mario is in. They likely placed a barrier within the wall and that barrier is what rewinds you. The others would be difficult to manage; imagine getting sent back after regular gameplay because they thought you performed a glitch.
Or fast start.... Which all winners this week used on 1-1.
I could see the double jump being viewed by Nintendo as a special technique and not neccesarily a glitch, at least not on the same level as the Minus World.
I was wondering if any of these worked while I was playing through these challenges. I'm glad to see someone do it. Since they took the time to remove these glitches it would of atleast been cool if they rewarded you a secret medal for each one the first time you performed them
I'm glad they removed them. The NES Remix leaderboards were lousy with glitched times.
There is a less known, and very hard to do, glitch in Zelda II known as Encounter Skip (or Fairy Feet) that allows to skip a side scrolling zone by exiting on the wrong side.
Basically, in the challenge where you have to dodge the bubbles, you can exit to the left and make the game think you exited to the right, placing you under the encounter spot on the map.
And EVEN this is blocked! It works in Zelda II itself but NWC detects the wrong exit being used and rewinds you every time.
How do you do this? Looking online I could only find instructions for doing it with fairy but no detailed instructions on how to do it without. Tried getting as close as I can with and pressing right, and shuffling around beforehand in the hopes of getting the correct subpixel but I can’t seem to get it to work. Do I have to do something with using my sword to stop at the correct place or something? Would love to try it myself or at least see a video of it being done on NWC NES Edition for completion’s sake
@@HexRey I use it in a NES Remix 2 challenge that you can find on my channel.
It’s the challenge with the two side scrolling sections you must go through to reach a village.
I will try to record it properly on NWC but it doesn’t help with the 30fps limited video captures.
On my video you will also be able to see the inputs so that should help!
@@HexRey It’s pretty hard as you must not be moving to the end of the screen when exiting as you turn back, and the placement needs to be sub-pixel perfect so I was pretty lucky to get it done twice in a row in the NES Remix 2 challenge.
This really comes across as one of two ways: The first being that they put checks for collision in place to rewind you if you abused it, the second being that they REALLY just did not put much effort into fixing SMB2/did not know of all of the bugs with it. Though in reality it actually comes across as just levelling the playing field for people of all skill levels without using bugs.
Most of the detection seems to be on detecting the player in a spot they shouldn't normally be
Very relaxing to watch: no talking and nothing that has nothing to do with the actual video idea, thanks.
I wonder if this is all the result of a generic error handler added to the game to handle things like the player going out-of-bounds? Or if Nintendo had to specially add flags to detect when the player is trying to employ a known glitch? If it's the latter, I wish they had used a funnier error than "strategy unavailable" something like "nice try" would have been a neat Easter egg.
"Strategy Unavailable"
Literally 1984
Literally 1985
Their final and most essential order was to ignore the evidence of the eyes and ears.
F451
Can someone explain
@@drewlincoln8110 1984 is a book set in a dystopian world
In that world thoughts are policed, and censorship is a big thing
I haven’t read Fahrenheit 451, but at the very least I know it’s also about a dystopian world
Me: * tries to glitch *
Nintendo: * Sandy saying no you ain't *
Is it about Sandy from SpongeBob or am I missing an English idiom? I am not a native, can someone pls explain the joke? :D
@@RobsiXXL you know that meme where Sandy says "No you ain't"? I was referencing that.
@@RobsiXXLsandy is a deity from the book of mormons
"Strategy unavailable. Rewinding..."
D'oheth!!
Should've added a little finger wag during the rewind.
The winners of the dk last week challenger used a glitch, and I will say, that was frustrating. I can clearly see why nintendo tried to path all the real shortcut glitchs
Wouldnt the easiest solution be to add a category for glitches alongside the current one that doesn’t allow 90% of glitches? They’re already acknowledged by the game itself and can be patched further down the line if anything is found. Maybe make the glitch mode available if the player has gotten all S ranks in a series or something
lol i saw that. i can see nintendo hq yelling at the devs about that going "HEY WTF IS THIS I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO REMOVE THE GLITCHES!"
"We did! we just couldnt remove THAT one!"
"WHY NOT!?"
"Because the game is 44 years old and it's easy to break, old man!"
".....say that again, I dare you."
Nintendo should've added something snarky with the glitch attempts such as "Nice Try"
"Thought you were being clever, eh?"
Basically they only allow small minor glitches that provide skill expression but don't allow obvious major skips.
Miyamoto: This isn’t how you are supposed to play the game.
I forgot about that one
i like how instead of patching these glitches, they just acknowledge them.
6:53 Birdo be like "This is as far as you go"
I love that all these tricks can still be DONE, they just can't be used to win. That's respecting the history there.
A speedrunning game that punishes speedrunners, good job nintendo, love the bait and switching you've been doing lately.
New Rule: if a glitch isn't blocked by the "Strategy Unavailable" message, then it is something that was intended by the developers in all official releases.
I think it's interesting they still included them without outright fixing them
Its nice that instead of changing the bugs, they just prevent them once they are performed
So it's just Any% No Major Glitches?
Yeah basically
I love how they're referred to as "strategies"
especially ones that would not be a good strategy like going to -1.
So they ripped all the fun away. Cool.
Crazy how they didn't just patch them out, and instead made a whole system to detect if you had used a glitch and then restart you.
Patching them out would likely be way harder and riskier than just checking if you stay within the bounds of the level.
I'm impressed they didn't just remove the glitches entirely.
That would be far more effort
These are essentially NES roms running on emulation, removing the glitches would take hacking the roms themselves which takes a lot more effort than just implementing checks to make certain players are clearing the challenge.
it’d stir more glitches, as usual
The minus world irl would be scary ngl
Minus 8?
@@saulgarcia2750that would be the opposite of scary 😩😩
You just accidentally go through a wall, and go in a pipe, and suddenly you’re trapped in an endless ocean, where you can never drown, and your only way to die is of old age (the NES version, not the FDS version
@@fuseegelee wait a sec we arent mario characters so we would drown also on fds cause its an underwater version of ?-3
5:42 What happens if you instead take the door to the left after clipping in? Does the game rewind if that happens?
5:07
That one specifically they did not like..
From what I'm guessing. Nintendo is less actually checking for individual glitches, and more doing sanity checks, and screaming when one fails.
Things like a character being wallbound for too long, a character sprite being drawn oob, or the player skipping steps in a progress checklist.
Which would explain why the two smb2 bugs were allowed to fly, and why the kid icarus wall skip didn't nail you until the next screen.
I love how it's like "you thought"
6 is probably for obvious reasons, since the glitch could accidentally appear and mess up speedruns and confuse players a lot because they wouldn't know what happened, but the most obvious glitches that require a series of steps are banned.
I think it’s neat that they still exist but some are not allowed, it would create too big of a gap between normal players that don’t mind grinding normal stuff for good times and the actual speedrunners who already knows how to clip through all the walls etc, it wouldn’t be fun if it was just a second leaderboard for normal any% runs so it’s good that it’s acknowledged since a lot of people know about it but don’t really want to learn it :)
Understanding which glitches are allowed is very simple. Every kind of noclip and entering areas you shouldn't reach in a specific mission is not allowed.
I find it hilarious that they didn't actually *fix* any of these glitches, just blocked them... sometimes.
Nintendo acknowledging popular glitches like World -1 is honestly really cool.
0:30🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 LMAO
6:54 Okay that Punishment is insane! Starting all the way back from the start of the level? Geez!
I find it particularly strange that some of these checks exist, specifically the Minus World glitch because doing that would be slower than getting to the Warp Zone normally. Still, it's funny to see these acknowledged by Nintendo.
No that skip would be faster if you allow the room to scroll enough to deactivate minus world
Props to them for thinking things through, but it would have been fun to see how we could have turned the game to dust.
I suppose the reason some of them like the glitched item holding or double-jump aren't patched is because those glitches are hard to detect via the emulator. For most of these, they could just check 'if the RAM address that holds the player's position ends up in these bounds, presume they've exploited it somehow and reset the challenge'. The item attachment glitch is a more deep-rooted flaw with the grab mechanic, and you'd need to have multiple specifically-triggered breakpoints to detect it happening externally, so it remains unfixed.
Huh... So they basically put barriers, guidelines or just specific scripts within those games to tell to reset the mission if the player goes through it?? Like an "anti-cheat" for a sequence break, since it looks like it.
Nintendo still showing how you have to play their games. Classic Nintendo houserules... :')
Update after reading the comments section:
Yeah, more people see patterns the way how Nintendo tried to tackle this. Oh well. Was still a fun video to watch, the more you know!
The game is like "nuh nuh nuh, no glitches allowed"
There's also the credits warp glitch that can be done in Kirby's Adventure in 1-1 And Done, but since pausing doesn't work (it cancels out the input entirely) all that happens is what would normally happen if you mistimed the start input: the game crashes. But funnily enough, there's actually a error screen in-game for if such an occurrence were to happen.
It’s crazy that Nintendo was actually kinda smart for once
Nice taste in favorite NES games!
Considering the tags you can give yourself have some dark humour, this all hints towards the fact that this developer might’ve actually been a rare fun one
I'm guessing the game has certain "position checks" in place to determine these glitches. Like, for the Minus World glitch, it probably checks whether Mario overlaps a certain point in the wall, for Donkey Kong it'll check if Mario leaves the bottom of the screen, etc. For things like the Wall Jump, Double Jump and Item Attachment glitches, these checks are much harder to put in place since they can be performed more or less anywhere, which I'm guessing would require them to put a lot more variables in place than they're willing to put effort into.
The Kid Icarus shortcut is another interesting example of this. Naturally, they wouldn't be able to put a position check on the area in the wall, since you SHOULD be able to pass through that gap normally, provided that the wall is broken. So instead, I guess the game checks whether or not the wall is broken by the time you go down the ladder to the next screen.
Now THIS is understandable. In a race format with casuals in mind, making glitches impossible is ok.
I do think this is the best way of fixing it. It wild just be fun if they added an option to switch between “Normal Strategies” and “All Strategie” so that glitched times can be used, but they would only be compared against themselves, and you can have people race eachother using normal strategies that don’t want to use the out of bounds glitches. Would be a fun like a speedrun leaderboard with it being glitchless and Glitches allowed option on certain speedrun Leaderboards
So instead of patching the games so you can't do these, they just added ways to detect and punish players for using them. Guess it wasn't worth the effort.
Wall jump is actually a feature
It feels like if this gets DLC there should be challenges specifically around glitches
I didn’t even know #8 was a thing!
It’s like the the Wall Climb Badge but 39 years before it was actually recognised as a requirement
Nintendo Logic:
Makes a game about *speedrunning* their famous titles,
disables speedrunning tricks. (and punishes you for using them)
me hacking the game:FUCK THIS (giltches into world -1)
I love that the dident patch the glitches outright
First time seeing footage of this game and that was the best thing to see
The Donkey Kong long ladder glitch was in the NES remix. It's how most did the challenge where Mario is replaced with Link from the 1st Legend of Zelda. I didn't know how to do it, so I made it to the top without jumping.
Nintendo:I can't allow them to make an old glitch in Nintendo World Championships: NES Edition. It's MY IP to sit on and do nothing with!
If i’m not wrong, the flagpole glitch still works for the most part, so the lowest time in SMB would be a 4:59 with 4:54.xx strategies
I wonder if any speedrunners will try and get that sub 5 score
they could totally detect and rewind both flagpole glitches. both the normal one and the bullet bill glitch. I'd count the number of frames since hitting the flagpole, and if mario has not scrolled the screen far enough after, "STRATEGY UNVAIALBLE". unless of course, the just stpo the timer when you hit the flagpole anyway, in which case it doesn't matter.
The game really said “nuh uh”
If I had to guess, the games can intercept certain bytes of data to double check whether or not you're doing something you're supposed to be doing. I think that's why things like the minus world clip, the DK long ladder, and metroid door clip are all detected so quickly: they can probably intercept your position value and determine you're in a place you're not supposed to be. That's also probably why things like the double jump or wall jump and the fast carpet are allowed, since there's not exactly a state you can check easily. It would likely require actual dynamic calculations to not misfire. I think the reason why the SMB2 skip and the Kid Icarus clip ALMOST seem to work is because it seems to be attached to two checks: for Kid Icarus, it likely checks if you came in through the door preceding the ladder to the boss. For SMB2, though, I would have to guess it checks HOW you came into the boss room, since normally you can only go through the door that way, but that might cause problems if they have a challenge where you do not take the shortcut and climb the vine.
I never did get to test my findings on this particular version. It's good to have this confirmation that the devs truly didn't know some of the things I knew back then. :-)
i like how all the smb2 glitches work
It’s pretty obvious because any glitches that involve skipping through parts of the game (especially clipping through walls) is not allowed because it is an unfair advantage in a competitive game.
Respect from Nintendo to know about these glitches and knowing which ones are allowed or not.
Nice coin count in the wall jump demo ;)
What if you wanted to have fun, but Nintendo said, “Strategy unavailable. Rewinding…”
I think I know why some glitches are allowed and some are not.
In SMB2, the cave skip isn't allowed because the game checks if you used the door or not.
But the double jump glitch is allowed, because the game only checks, if you're entering the door, doesn't matter how and not how many times you jump.
The carpet glitch is also allowed, because the game doesn't check how fast you are with the carpet, or if you even used the carpet. It only checks if you entered the vase, grab the key and opened the door.
I like how they left the glitches in, but just lets you know that they are against the rules.
Let me understand, so in a game that is intended for competition and speedruns they have disabled the techniques for Speedruns?