Same dilemma happened to me. I was happy with ARC PS8 with 3 presets available but my wife wasn’t happy when my tuned was for driver seat and she said it was so loud on her side and she heard only the left side speaker. I told her I cannot do anything due to the presets are full from 3 sources I connected to ARC DSP so I told her if you need a better sound on your side, I’ll need a better DSP with more presets. She said she’ll pay for new DSP and Boom I got Helix Pro Mk3 now. lol
I was sat in my passenger seat at a show a few weeks ago and it's the first time I've really heard my system from that side of the car. The person in the drivers seat was loving it....me not so much.
Two presets... end of discussion! I couldn't agree more... especially after all the money, time, and effort that goes into creating an exceptional soundstage! 💯
Totally agree. Most people listen to music on a cellphone or a tiny BT speaker. They don't have a clue of what a soundstage is or could care less about it. Doesn't make you selfish...they wouldn't notice it anyways
Yes, don't do a two seat tune, do two one seat tunes. I have a passenger tune for when people ride with me. (it's not that much of a sacrifice to let the passenger have some better sound, but I don't have passengers very often) I have a quick 3rd tune that is in the middle of the car, crossovers are higher and I added a subsonic to my subs (to keep those infrasonic from bottoming out my trunk baffle subs), that tune is for when I want to play it loud with all the bass I can.
Ive only done a 2 seat tune 1 time. Didn't like it, and decided perfect stage for me or the passenger is the best way. Used to follow the rules about equalizing the distance for both speakers and aiming towards the center of the car but nowadays I just do whats best for me in the drivers seat.
Nerijus, the fact that you have a car with a center channel position, a DSP that can do the upmixing and probably a spare amp channel, I think it would be an interesting experiment to add a center channel. You can always switch presets depending on who is in the car. Just stick a Faital in and run it full range.
One thing that makes me want 2-seat tune is being able to listen to music at a decent level when I'm driving with my wife. With 1-seat tune, she very quickly gets annoyed with the music and asks me if I can turn it down. And you dont want your wife to be an enemy :D But I agree - it's very dependant on how we use the car most often.
I have a non time alignment tune for the whole truck. People say that when its tuned just for my seat its actually better. Just sayin... I didn't put more effort into the one seat tune, i just took the same tune with my mosconi dsp, and took out the time alignment.
Not really. A vocal recorded in the very center will have L and R 50/50. If you do L-R, then you will eliminate the center recording. Upscaling is a bit more nuanced. Center channel processing removes only hard L and hard R content from stereo leaving only what is in the middle of the stage.
It would have to be (L+R)-|L-R| (The absolute value of l-r) L-R eliminates center content for only left or right, but hard right has its polarity swapped. Subtracting a negative number is addition, so you’d be adding right content to the center. That’s why you need the absolute value to make both hard left and right positive. I think the helix center algorithm does it properly.
Are the tweeters you're using SB acoustics sb29 or sb26? Sb29 is one of my favorite tweeters after I built some home speakers with them and I really wanted to fit them in a car but the size is kind of big even with the smaller face version. By the way, I did do that back in the day with my mid and tweet mounted low in the kick panel area and I got so much better imaging than what I would get from a door mid-range at the bottom of the door and Tweeter by the door handle
No passanger I drive with will ever notice any changes in my tunning. My wife did not even notice I have got installed 10 new speakers, new sub and two amps. She did however singalong more and louder music did not bother her anymore. 🎉
I’ve always wondered about this. If I go to a live show and I don’t get a seat that is perfectly centered the sound would be off correct? But I understand I’m in the car by myself most of the time
Not possible. You're the driver. It's still gonna sound better than anything ever heard. Most people wouldn't know good stereo imaging if it smacked them in the face. Much less depth and clarity!
Center speakers are a bandaid! They have to remaster the channel with an algorithm to achieve a center! So now you've messed with the master! Sq is about reproduction of the original signal! Centers can never achieve this. So a bandaid!
I’ve thought about this. My car has a center channel midrange, sounds great. Should I even bother with a DSP once upgrading to wide-set midrange speakers? Or just keep the center channel, and get a DSP with center channel processing?
@@RAW-CAt Ok thanks. I have never heard a system with DSP, but I believe I want it. Currently my cabin speakers are virtually stock aside from door speaker upgrade. The only thing that annoys me is I can hear where the bass is coming from; the rear. A DSP will most definitely require front stage amplification. Just wondering if I want to commit to modified midrange location.
My dillema is im more into SQ and the wife does not care for SQ she just wants more spl lol its hard to achieve both without some sort of power , space and quality compromise.
Assuming you don't care about the passenger, wouldn't make sense to place the mids and the tweeters (not the midbass for space reasons) all in one side of the car, at the same distance from the driver? You'd have to go to the hassle of removing the dash, but I think It would sound infinitely better than a "usual" system, even if well tuned
That is an option, but then your stage width will be severely limited, basically cut in half and will be very narrow. Door to door is the widest you can get, narrowing the stage is not something we want in SQ.
What are your thoughts on centre speaker RTA ? Should we perform a solo tune eq on them while real center effect(fx) is on ?or doing the eq procedure before activating real centre effect?
A centre channel with a processor doesn't sound that bad. Can u use that as fake imaging? to increase the soundstage using the delay for the left right speakers?
@@RAW-CAt Thanks for answering. Hmm do you know if there's anything on the market that would convert CAN SWC signal into smartphone/tablet volume control ?
There's no such thing as a two seat tune. Stereo only has one focal point. That's just how it works. Now granted you can make your two positions equally wrong and have a mild stereo image in both positions. But they're just equally wrong.
I my opinion, ideally the centre should be behind the steering wheel (because that is your centre and not the middle of the dash) and the sound from left or right speaker should be perceived as coming from the outside
Unfortunately physics do not allow that. Correct center stage is in between the physical speakers, that is close to the middle of the dash. If you would have a driver seat right in the middle of the car then yes, your center will be where the steering wheel is.
I don’t agree with this philosophy. Imagine you invite someone to dinner and you cook yourself a $30 wagyu steak and your guest a $2 steak, and assume they don’t care cause not everyone likes good steak. Embarrassing! Everyone can detect good sound, most just haven’t been exposed to it yet. Just like everyone can taste a good steak. And if someone is in my car, I must really like that person and I want them to have good sound.
Let's expand on your analogy. Let's assume that your budget for the dinner is 32 bucks. So you have an option - a wagyu for you and a budget option for your partner or you order an average steak for 16 bucks each. However , there is the catch, your partner wants that 16 buck stake well done and eats it with ketchup... You would have second thoughts about that wagyu, wouldn't you? If I want to treat my partner, I will get him the wagyu and I will eat the 2 dollar piece of rubber myself. With a normal stereo install both diners cannot have wagyu, the budget does not allow that. If both people want to enjoy the same - up the budget for the dinner - get a center channel and a processor.
Nope. I, as the host, did my job. If they eat it how they want then great. I did my job as host. I take pride in the time and money I spent. I want everyone to enjoy it. But I have multiple presets. My head is by the rear window in every car I sit in. I also enjoy tweeters in kicks. 😊
Why? Because the wife laughed at me and said "you spend all the money for this shitty stereo?". By the way, your sail panel tweeters make me want to have sunny side up egg for breakfast.
@@RAW-CAtYra tokių 😊 tas pasaulis netoks ir didelis. O jei iš tiesų įsikalbėjome su vienu iš Audiostatus darbuotojų sako žinau jį 😊 Šaunus Jūsų videos kažkiek padeda vargstant prie bmw muzikos kur buvo basic stereo dabar stovi helix m six dsp ir to pacio gamintojo garsiakalbiai tik sunkiai sekas sureguliuoti😊
@@RAW-CAt indeed! Two seat tunes are for cars with damn-near-equal PLD’s or cars with a proper centre channel and upmixer only imo. Your setup was always going to be a turd for two-seat
Same dilemma happened to me. I was happy with ARC PS8 with 3 presets available but my wife wasn’t happy when my tuned was for driver seat and she said it was so loud on her side and she heard only the left side speaker. I told her I cannot do anything due to the presets are full from 3 sources I connected to ARC DSP so I told her if you need a better sound on your side, I’ll need a better DSP with more presets. She said she’ll pay for new DSP and Boom I got Helix Pro Mk3 now. lol
This is the best thing I have ever heard in a while😂😂😂
And still a driver seat tune for her 😂
@@Crt5 lol now, I'm the one who listen to the bad sound from driver seat T T
I was sat in my passenger seat at a show a few weeks ago and it's the first time I've really heard my system from that side of the car. The person in the drivers seat was loving it....me not so much.
Passengers are overrated
Indeed my seats are for my groceries the boot is for my subs and amps
Same here😂😂😂
💯
😂😂😂
Two presets... end of discussion! I couldn't agree more... especially after all the money, time, and effort that goes into creating an exceptional soundstage! 💯
Totally agree. Most people listen to music on a cellphone or a tiny BT speaker. They don't have a clue of what a soundstage is or could care less about it. Doesn't make you selfish...they wouldn't notice it anyways
Great video!! totally agree, the only problem is when you have two audiophiles at the same time haha
Yes, don't do a two seat tune, do two one seat tunes.
I have a passenger tune for when people ride with me. (it's not that much of a sacrifice to let the passenger have some better sound, but I don't have passengers very often)
I have a quick 3rd tune that is in the middle of the car, crossovers are higher and I added a subsonic to my subs (to keep those infrasonic from bottoming out my trunk baffle subs), that tune is for when I want to play it loud with all the bass I can.
I’ll still think about others, but using a preset seems like the best way to go! Thank you so much for your work-it’s truly appreciated!
Ive only done a 2 seat tune 1 time. Didn't like it, and decided perfect stage for me or the passenger is the best way.
Used to follow the rules about equalizing the distance for both speakers and aiming towards the center of the car but nowadays I just do whats best for me in the drivers seat.
im so grateful for your input. thank you man
100% agreed
Nerijus, the fact that you have a car with a center channel position, a DSP that can do the upmixing and probably a spare amp channel, I think it would be an interesting experiment to add a center channel. You can always switch presets depending on who is in the car. Just stick a Faital in and run it full range.
Another great breakfast, Raw!
One thing that makes me want 2-seat tune is being able to listen to music at a decent level when I'm driving with my wife.
With 1-seat tune, she very quickly gets annoyed with the music and asks me if I can turn it down. And you dont want your wife to be an enemy :D
But I agree - it's very dependant on how we use the car most often.
I have a non time alignment tune for the whole truck. People say that when its tuned just for my seat its actually better. Just sayin... I didn't put more effort into the one seat tune, i just took the same tune with my mosconi dsp, and took out the time alignment.
Center is basically (Front L + Front R) - (Front L - Front R) you can do it with virtual channels in Helix/Match
Not really. A vocal recorded in the very center will have L and R 50/50. If you do L-R, then you will eliminate the center recording. Upscaling is a bit more nuanced. Center channel processing removes only hard L and hard R content from stereo leaving only what is in the middle of the stage.
It would have to be (L+R)-|L-R|
(The absolute value of l-r)
L-R eliminates center content for only left or right, but hard right has its polarity swapped. Subtracting a negative number is addition, so you’d be adding right content to the center. That’s why you need the absolute value to make both hard left and right positive. I think the helix center algorithm does it properly.
We had over 36 cars at the show last weekend. I think there was maybe ONE 2 seat competitor.
How did it do?
@@RAW-CAt 1st place 🤣
Are the tweeters you're using SB acoustics sb29 or sb26?
Sb29 is one of my favorite tweeters after I built some home speakers with them and I really wanted to fit them in a car but the size is kind of big even with the smaller face version.
By the way, I did do that back in the day with my mid and tweet mounted low in the kick panel area and I got so much better imaging than what I would get from a door mid-range at the bottom of the door and Tweeter by the door handle
It's SB29🙃
@@RAW-CAt Nice!
Ive never tried the small face version, Im sure they sound about the same.
No passanger I drive with will ever notice any changes in my tunning. My wife did not even notice I have got installed 10 new speakers, new sub and two amps. She did however singalong more and louder music did not bother her anymore. 🎉
I’ve always wondered about this. If I go to a live show and I don’t get a seat that is perfectly centered the sound would be off correct? But I understand I’m in the car by myself most of the time
why centre imaging(not the speaker) need to be in the middle of the dash and not at the steering wheel, in front of you
Center is in between your hard left and hard right. To allow enough space for left center and right center.
Over the steering wheel is how factory systems are tuned (at least in my German cars). I prefer my sound that way
Not possible. You're the driver. It's still gonna sound better than anything ever heard. Most people wouldn't know good stereo imaging if it smacked them in the face. Much less depth and clarity!
Center speakers are a bandaid! They have to remaster the channel with an algorithm to achieve a center! So now you've messed with the master! Sq is about reproduction of the original signal! Centers can never achieve this. So a bandaid!
I’ve thought about this. My car has a center channel midrange, sounds great.
Should I even bother with a DSP once upgrading to wide-set midrange speakers?
Or just keep the center channel, and get a DSP with center channel processing?
It depends what you want from a system. I don't know a single person that runs a center channel for SQ🤷
@@RAW-CAt Ok thanks. I have never heard a system with DSP, but I believe I want it.
Currently my cabin speakers are virtually stock aside from door speaker upgrade. The only thing that annoys me is I can hear where the bass is coming from; the rear.
A DSP will most definitely require front stage amplification. Just wondering if I want to commit to modified midrange location.
Please check natan budiono system for their competition.. He is Harman international sound engineer.
Passengers cannot agree on what music to listen to anyway..one seat tune one hundred percent!
My dillema is im more into SQ and the wife does not care for SQ she just wants more spl lol
its hard to achieve both without some sort of power , space and quality compromise.
Assuming you don't care about the passenger, wouldn't make sense to place the mids and the tweeters (not the midbass for space reasons) all in one side of the car, at the same distance from the driver? You'd have to go to the hassle of removing the dash, but I think It would sound infinitely better than a "usual" system, even if well tuned
That is an option, but then your stage width will be severely limited, basically cut in half and will be very narrow. Door to door is the widest you can get, narrowing the stage is not something we want in SQ.
What are your thoughts on centre speaker RTA ? Should we perform a solo tune eq on them while real center effect(fx) is on ?or doing the eq procedure before activating real centre effect?
You have to EQ before any FX to make sure the speaker plays flat.
A centre channel with a processor doesn't sound that bad.
Can u use that as fake imaging? to increase the soundstage using the delay for the left right speakers?
No,not really. It will mess up things.
@RAW-Cat your vids are great with step by step but a simple explanation that I can understand, Thanks
Am I wrong or aint that a normal android tablet on the center console ?
If yes did you manage to get it work with steering wheel control ?
It's a Joying head unit with 10in floating screen. No SWC.
@@RAW-CAt Thanks for answering. Hmm do you know if there's anything on the market that would convert CAN SWC signal into smartphone/tablet volume control ?
There's no such thing as a two seat tune. Stereo only has one focal point. That's just how it works. Now granted you can make your two positions equally wrong and have a mild stereo image in both positions. But they're just equally wrong.
What is the name of the Facebook so I can find about two seat tune?
facebook.com/groups/audiofrogenthusiasts/?ref=share
Sveikas. Klausimas tu ismegines daug reguliavimo mikrofonu ar didelis skirtumas tarp Dayton imm6 ir umik-1 usb
Matuoja taip pat. Skirtumas yra pajungimas ir dydis.
Ačiū. kaip tik šiandien gavau USB garso korta. Po darbų eisiu pražaisti
I my opinion, ideally the centre should be behind the steering wheel (because that is your centre and not the middle of the dash) and the sound from left or right speaker should be perceived as coming from the outside
Unfortunately physics do not allow that. Correct center stage is in between the physical speakers, that is close to the middle of the dash. If you would have a driver seat right in the middle of the car then yes, your center will be where the steering wheel is.
I don’t agree with this philosophy. Imagine you invite someone to dinner and you cook yourself a $30 wagyu steak and your guest a $2 steak, and assume they don’t care cause not everyone likes good steak. Embarrassing!
Everyone can detect good sound, most just haven’t been exposed to it yet. Just like everyone can taste a good steak.
And if someone is in my car, I must really like that person and I want them to have good sound.
Let's expand on your analogy. Let's assume that your budget for the dinner is 32 bucks. So you have an option - a wagyu for you and a budget option for your partner or you order an average steak for 16 bucks each. However , there is the catch, your partner wants that 16 buck stake well done and eats it with ketchup... You would have second thoughts about that wagyu, wouldn't you? If I want to treat my partner, I will get him the wagyu and I will eat the 2 dollar piece of rubber myself. With a normal stereo install both diners cannot have wagyu, the budget does not allow that. If both people want to enjoy the same - up the budget for the dinner - get a center channel and a processor.
Nope. I, as the host, did my job. If they eat it how they want then great. I did my job as host. I take pride in the time and money I spent. I want everyone to enjoy it. But I have multiple presets. My head is by the rear window in every car I sit in. I also enjoy tweeters in kicks. 😊
@@tbomb887 and that is great, props to you for being an amazing host 😉 I lost my manners somewhere on the way 😀
Lol! @@RAW-CAt
Why are you centering your image at the center of your car and not the center of you? Sounds like you would be turning your head to hear it
Because center is in between the speakers, not in front of you. Just the speakers in a car are offset.
Stop trying to make 2 seat a thing. It's not a thing! -Me
😂😂😂
Why? Because the wife laughed at me and said "you spend all the money for this shitty stereo?". By the way, your sail panel tweeters make me want to have sunny side up egg for breakfast.
Sveiki. Ar tiesa kad jus lietuvis
Kas čia tokius gandus paskleidė?😀
@@RAW-CAtYra tokių 😊 tas pasaulis netoks ir didelis. O jei iš tiesų įsikalbėjome su vienu iš Audiostatus darbuotojų sako žinau jį 😊 Šaunus Jūsų videos kažkiek padeda vargstant prie bmw muzikos kur buvo basic stereo dabar stovi helix m six dsp ir to pacio gamintojo garsiakalbiai tik sunkiai sekas sureguliuoti😊
TOS technologijos man per tamsus miškas
@@krotaskrotux9290 Jei reikia pagalbos parašyk rawcaraudiotuning@gmail.com
0:55 You shouldn't. But that doesn't mean everyone shouldn't....
Of course. On my channel I am sharing MY opinions and views.
@@RAW-CAt indeed!
Two seat tunes are for cars with damn-near-equal PLD’s or cars with a proper centre channel and upmixer only imo.
Your setup was always going to be a turd for two-seat