Minie bullet vs buck and ball vs single ball cartridges
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2015
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This is an experiment I planned for a long long time. Comparing the accuracy of the Minié ball fired from a rifle musket, and the buck and ball and single ball cartridges of the Civil War time fired from smooth bore muskets. All done at 50 and 100 m distances. Enjoy! ;)
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2:36 damn that man can spit so hard he breaks the sound barrier
LOL!
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed.
He shot pieces of paper like a gun shot.
मुझे चाहिए यह बंदूक नंबर लिखिए 96 644 54391
@@user-do2kq4cc9j h u h ?
“But they might be real close friends” lmao that had me rolling
I've done a lot of smoothbore shooting over the years. In my experience, most smoothies shoot better at long distance than is commonly thought. Military style paper cartridges, however, are not the best for accuracy. Generally in my guns, a fairly undersized ball and pillow tick patching work the best. My .69 will throw scary good groups with an over powder felt wad, 3/4 ounce of six shot and patched round ball. It starts to throw flyers when you put more than 90 grains behind it. It's a useless load as far as the shot goes but it seems to cushion the round ball just right. It makes people really do a double take when looking at the results.
did not know that though paper is easy to get in mass then pillow tick patching. and usually for better shots with paper cartridges the round would have to fit the barrel just right for it to work. yes it would risk jamming but you can hit with accuracy with it.
@@TheManofthecross It would be no different than paper patched bullets in a rifle. For example, in my 12 bore smooth (.720), I use a .710 ball, and make a cartridge with 20# printer paper (.004" thickness average), 1.25x wraps. That makes the total diameter .719", and leaves just enough windage to load easy for quite a few shots, without issue, while being close enough that the gasses quickly bump the ball up to bore diameter. Dip the end of the cartridge in a soft wax.
Open cartridge, prime and charge, insert cartridge, and ram, that easy. Excellent accuracy with consistent, quick and easy loading. After seeing Cap's experimental archeology with his wheel lock pistols, I may try leaving the sprue on, and making the cartridge tied to it and see if that would help improve accuracy even more. Paper (of one style or another) has always been cheaper than cloth, and more consistent (it's just emulsified plant fiber, that has been collected on a screen, pressed, and allowed to dry). For something that isn't really going to be reused, might as well go cheap, I tend to think.
I've really exclusively shot from cartridges (rifle, solid-shot smooth, and small-shot smooth) like this for the last 10 years, and I can see why it was popular, when available.
@@wildrangeringreen I see this info is good to know and it has to be pinned to the top of the video and more.
capandball, what a great channel on TH-cam to watch. your love of historical fire arms is refreshing. keep it up. sean
2:35 That timing when he spat out the paper....
I love your commentary and the video was as always superb! The practical accuracy demonstration of how a standing soldier would approach an enemy was as close as it could have been without an enemy firing back! Well done!
Outstanding! Clearly the best comparison of shot types I've seen. Thanks!
Well done. Great practical test of period ammo! I realize that this is test in an American Civil War context but did the buck and ball cartridge have any use in Eastern Europe?
+britishmuzzleloaders I have some period descriptions of such cartridges from the 18th century k.k. army.
I remember reading in a civil war firearms book that other than America's use(which goes back to an order Washington gave during the Revolution), the only other nation to use it on a wide scale was the Danish Army
@@itsnodawayitustabe5654 Can you please tell me which book mentions the use of Buck and Ball by the Danish army?
Crimean War
you probably already know but your hat brim was interfering with your Flint lock
I'm surprised the buckshot got hits at 100. When I was at the museum at Sharpsburg MD, I was amazed by the amount of recovered buckshot was on display.
I always find your videos entertaining and informative. This is another great performance.
Excellent video as always! Impressive results with the Buck & Ball at 100, no doubt.
There's a monument at Gettysburg, PA dedicated to the NJ infantry using buck and ball.
Balazs, thank you for showing the flintlock misfires! Its so reassuring to see others have the same issues I have at the range! :) Awesome comparison and ammo experimentation! I want you job!
Cannot tell you how much I appreciate and enjoy your efforts! I have learned much. Thank you! Tom Clark, Snellville, GA, United States
Balázs, you are an impressive marksman and obviously well informed. I enjoy and find all of your videos very well done. Thank you for all your hard work and please keep the videos coming.
Keep up your awesome work, and thanks for helping to keep the muzzle loader alive!
People often forget that a single 30 cal ball at even 120-150 m/s can disable a soldier with peripheral hits. From a volley standpoint, the buck and ball is beyond acceptable. It’s downright superb within 200m
the guy in the background at 6:50. Great video by the way
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
You have a new subscriber. Love these videos and the effort behind them. Well done.
thank You very much! It's a greatest review I have ever seen. I was waiting it for a long time and even ask You to make this in my comments.
Always enjoy watching your videos , keep up the good work!
You have one of the coolest channels I've ever seen! Keep up the good work!
Subscribed. It always warms my heart to see folks having responsible fun with firearms outside of the United States.
Very well made video, and a good test of the different loading's capabilities. Keep up the good work!
Greetings from Texas. thanks for the comparison shooting. I learned a lot, was very informative.
That guy behind you, not only is he shooting an abomination, but he takes his sweet time loading it :)
He was being harassed by bugs.
i have no idea wth that thing is
Hey, he doesn't deserve that, what is it with the internet that has people be mean to strangers. Maybe that "abomination" is all he can reasonably afford. Why not take your time, it's a muzzle loading firearm, you have to be ESPECIALLY careful with those.
@@Treblaine I don't think cost is the issue, that rifle he has was probably fairly expensive, I think the guys objection to it is its design. From the looks of it it's a 'modern' muzzle loader. Some people use them so they can shoot within muzzle loading law (if the country only allows that, or for some hunting seasons) but with modern accuracy, reliability and ergonomics. It's a bit like a guy showing up to a classic car meet in a new Mustang I guess. I wouldn't take the guys comment so seriously, seems like the sort of banter that probably goes on at the range between the guy and the "old men shooting blunderbuss's". You know?
I want to know what this rifle is, it seems the projectile gets loaded from the muzzle, but the powder charge from behind? You can clearly see some sort of breach loading mechanism
Thanks for your videos, keep them coming.
Interesting comparison. Thank you!
Great video! This channel is a blessing!
You have presented another great video with education in mind. ]
Thanks for taking the time to share your videos with us You Tubers.
You and I have very similar experiences on shooting ranges. You are having a blast, quite obviously. Frequently I too am the person having the most fun on the range.
Nicely done ! I appreciate your efforts. Keep up the good work ! E.C.
Excellent video.
Excellent video really cool results, thanks
Love the channel, very interesting and informative videos. Very good shooting with the rifle! Not easy to hold those heavy guys on target at that range.
great informative vid as always Belaz
ive been looking intently at the pedersoli 1798 Austrian for some time now and I loved seeing it in your video
Love watching these videos. I'm in the US where we have fairly lax gun laws. Yet I still find the most fun I have is when I pull out my cap and ball revolvers. Thanks for making these videos.
Jon Beck
I really enjoy your videos, thanks.
I'd love to see this done with ballistics gel. I'm 1 minute in and I love this guy already.
I enjoy your videos. That looked like fun!
Great video, you did do something important. The testing shows how deadly rifle is compare to smooth bore musket.
Another nice presentation. I do like your vids!
They must have been brave men if they realised just how accurate these weapons were at combat distances. The other side could hit you too! Scary stuff. You are a good shot with that minie ball at 100 meters "offhand". Nicely presented video as usual.
dude! this was a great episode!
I love the flintlock part where you get two misfires then the classic flash in the pan and you say 'needs some fine adjustment'. Cracked me up. Been there a few times with my Hawken. Flints and frizzens only last so long before the spark shower becomes weak enough to cause misfires. And of course the touch hole can easily become plugged enough even after only a couple shots to cause the flash in the pan. Still, it is a hoot to see someone else deal with this. Great video.
Guys that shoot black powder, especially flintlocks and other old style muzzleloaders, know the drill but when shooting in front of other types it can be embarrassing.
Great video as always.
Great video and great shooting. As always.
I had a reproduced fowling piece in 10Gauge. The template was excavated at Fort King George in Darien, Georgia. I experimented with loads and found that the 130 2F load worked best. But yes, after a day of shooting you feel it. Nice job and great video! I want to visit Hungary some day.
I love the humour in this vid 3 man standing really close to each other they might be real close friends
I really enjoy watching your videos 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻.
Excellent shooter - always
Great video as always
forgotten weapons is very much worth the time to watch. you two should share your knowledge of the past firearms
8:55 - watching that shot 'drop' into the target is awesome.
very good video! i just caught a bit of cap fragment in the eye the other day, no injury thankfully, but I'll never go without eye protection again!
I've only shot flinters and was thinking of getting a Confederate repro percussion. I was wondering if the caps could shoot back at you.
This was a good comparison!
Hello, I enjoy your videos very much. I was watching tonight with my youngest boy, his comment was “ that man is good with a musket, he must be a musketeer” lol. Maybe someday you will visit Canada for our great waterfowl and deer hunts.
Great video on a subject rarely covered
Love your videos!
Excellent video sir, great information thanks
That was fucking badass on the first shot when you spat out the paper, and the gun fired in the background, it looked like you spitting it out made the noise, and reminded me of some old Clint Eastwood movie
Do You have plans to make review on matchlock musket?
Great shooting, Sir! Consistent hits at 100m standing with those loads with a flintlock!! Perhaps a percussion smoothbore of the era would have shown slightly better results as the ignition is a little more reliable than the Flinter over that many rounds fired and far more common on the Civil War battle field. I think until the last years of the war there were far more smoothbores than rifles.
I dont think any precaution guns except pistols were not rifled like tell me one rifle sized gun with caplock mechanismn that is smooth bore
@@grindkagethefirst5975 The Springfield Model 1842 smoothbore musket, favoured by alot of southern troops for loading buck and ball loads. this may help... www.bhpioneer.com/opinion/transition-in-firearm-technology-the-springfields/article_fe6d0782-7eed-58ba-9c89-b2036a1651a5.html cheers
I think most long arms in the civil war would've been rifled, especially among Union troops. The Model 1861 Springfield was especially common. I agree with you that there were definitely smoothbore percussions, though. The development of caplock and obturating bullets were two separate innovations.
Great shooting!
very interesting video. thanks for posting this.
Great shooting, Blaz!Tom I.
With that kind of accuracy, I wonder what the maximum range is.
Wow you're really good at aiming O_o
That will really test your follow through. Particularly with no eye protection. Nice shooting.
amazing video! greetings from Luxembourg!
Here in the US especially where I live in the northeast was the height of the use of smoothbore guns from the 1600's on up through the Revolutionary War and into the Battle of Plattsburgh on September 11, 1814, where the militia units raised to defend northern New York against the British brought their own guns to the fight, most being smoothbore guns as well as the muskets used by the infantry. Also, from 1601 to roughly 1701 there what was known as the Beaver Wars between the Iroquois and the other Native American tribes all over the northeast from New France down to New Netherland, Maryland and Pennsylvania as the tribes all traded with the different European powers for guns, each trying to get ahead of the other. The Mohawk were able on most occasions to send 300-400 well armed warriors on raids or they would lie in wait for their enemies to come through and use ambush tactics with trade guns. The other tribes adopted the same tactics. Trying to imagine in the thick forests up here, even hunting today in the same forests, you rarely even can see 100 yards let alone imagine taking a shot at that distance. Most are anywhere from 35-60 yards. With that many guns at short ranges, the ambush tactics of the Mohawk for many years made them the most feared force in the whole of North America and at the time, they had more armed men than any of the countries that had set up trading posts at that time.
Nice confederate battle dress! Greetings and love from the south.
I second that from VA
((With a US belt buckle))
@Thirsty Sexpert calm down dude it could be very easily mistaken as Confederate as many southern troops were militia men and were clothed with such uniforms
Then I wish I was in Dixie !
@Thirsty Sexpert Then he has a lot of explaining to do because he stated that he is shooting at Union troops.
That buck and ball flying at a formation of men pack shoulder to shoulder would be some nasty stuff
Dang, just shows you how much difference rifling can make even on just a plain round ball.
My friend hit a 12" steel target at 60-65 yards with a harpers ferry .58 pistol. It was loaded with a round ball and 40 grains of FFg. It was divine intervention.
You make some great videos.
I think I mentioned it before, but if you put primers in the small pouch in the ammo box you can grab a primer at the same time as you grab the cartridge. I have an original civil war ammo box that was unquestionably used in this manner. I don't know if you can prime first and then load, not sure if air pressure will allow it to stay seated but I think it will. Might not be safe for modern soldiers or in the drill manual but it seems to be faster. When I was a reenactor I never used the small primer pouch although I never primed first.
Solid as a pine tree even when the flintlock misfires. No flinching. :-)
Haha. At 2:32 I can just feel the judgement radiating off of the guy with his bolt action, bi-pod equipped muzzle-loader.
Another excellent video! MiF
Great video.
The greatest impact of the buck and ball cartridge was US Revolutionary war and War of 1812 buck and ball against the Brown Bess. At the Battle of New Orleans, although the Brits suffered disproportionate casualties, it has been noted that many of these soldiers recovered quickly due to only pellet wounds from buck, although they were out of the battle.
Buck and ball, and maybe just buck were most likely effective against Native Americans in many cases although I don't know of the documented use at Militia heavy battles like Tippecanoe.
Buck and ball was probably more effective at even longer ranges while the Minies effectiveness was not as great as might be thought as one, the soldiers were not particular effective in hitting anything once the smoke of battle started and it was important to just throw as much lead down the field as possible you could throw more lead shooting buck.
There is a myth of civil war soldiers being country boys and great rifle shots. While that might have been true or those who shot with squirrel rifles in the East, much of the game was taken in the South with shotguns in the woods where shots were usually 10-50 yards. And a lot more squirrels were killed with shotguns and dogs than 'still" hunting with squirrel rifles and later rimfire 22 rounds. The Southern Fiest dog, we had one, were, and are, incredible squirrelers. It was amazing how our dog joyfully worked his circular pattern with no prompting, These were not a breed but small dogs with good noses, a yapping bark-which causes the squirrel to hunker down on the tree), and great discipline. There was nothing funnier than watching a Fiest look at you quizzically when you failed to bring down the squirrel. You would get that "Hey, I did my job" look. Before with just a bit of encouragement he would then take off in his hunting pattern and once you heard the treed "bark" you would run through the woods to the tree where the squirrel was most likely trying to make himself invisible on the tree trunk.
This was shotgun work....and, there was a reason they called buckshot "buckshot". Additionally far more deer were taken with dogs driving them than is appreciated. A line of hunters would take position and then hound type dogs would be released that would drive deer to the hunters. It was a cooperative effort, and as the deer were usually moving, it was shotgun work.
+hoodoo2001 We still hunt deer like that here in France, hunters with shotguns encircling a wooded area worked by dogs. I think it's the same in parts of the Eastern/southern US...
+Ijusthopeitsquick It was prevalent up through the 1960's in Southeast Texas where I lived, I only participated in one of those kinds of hunts but it was exhilarating listening to the dogs get closer but then the land started getting leased up by hunting clubs and fenced off. These clubs were very anti-dog even to the point of shooting them. In some parts of the deeper woods it lasted for a while longer and there was even a hold out that was setting forest fires in protest in the 1990's over the inability to hunt with dogs anymore, however, civilization has taken over. Now American hunters hunt deer out of elevated stands that have had corn set out most of the year to attract the does which are followed by literally and figuratively horny deer. Not much sport to my taste but we have more deer in the US than I think any time in the history of the Americas due to great conservation efforts. White tailed Deer are extremely prolific and must be culled, just not my idea of a hunt though, sitting in a deer stand with all the comforts and detached from nature, its more necessary slaughter than a sport in my book but still necessary. Not judging, just not my cup of tea. To me the hunt is more fun than than the actual killing and sitting in a comfortable stand is not hunting to me, but I am a purist.
hoodoo2001
Thanks for the interesting info, hoodoo. I agree that it's an exhilarating type of hunt, although we do have to deal with dogs taking off after a fox or a wild boar and occasionally getting themselves killed on a road. Stand type hunting with rifles is also practiced in summer but corn baiting is not allowed.
Brilliant video. Forget the PC BS, You live as they did. Did I say great video, many thanks
looks COOL !
Awesome video, thanks for posting! Surprising result from the buck and ball at 100m - I didn't expect the shot to stay on (or at least near) the target that far out. Have you ever considered doing any kind of penetration test for buck-shot propelled by black powder at that distance? It tore the paper, but would it penetrate flesh deeply enough to bother anyone?
If it left the barrel at 1000 fps (300 m/s) it should retain in the vicinity of 700 fps (230 m/s) at 100m. A 54 gr 00 buck pellet would be comparable to a 25 automatic at the muzzle. Enough to wound someone for sure, especially in an unsanitary environment. Under enough adrenaline the wounded person may not immediately notice the wound however, only after several minutes would blood loss begin to have significant effect if no vital area was struck.
Wonderful to see. Now I know how to make cartridges for my US Model 1816.
Good shooting!!
Very nice vid, thanks !
Great video as always. I would like to know if you could ever do a video on antique air rifles like the Girandoni (Girardoni) air rifle or other air guns of the time? I wished that a manufacturer like Pedersoli or Uberti would reproduce these rifles.
+Royal Emperor I am in contact with the Military Museum of Budapest thru the University where I now teach. They have a few fully functional Girardoni repreaters, so it can happen that I'll be able to make a film for you.
+capandball That would be amazing.
Great video! Keep up the good work! :)
great video
Great video, it is terrific to see actual scatter patterns. Buck and ball seems to decrease the accuracy of the ball.How wide are each of the three white boards. This would help with estimates of buck scatter from the ball.
awesome vid
Mr Infantryman, your shell jacket needs to be a frock coat! Nice video nevertheless.
I swear on one of ur shots that didn't go off the hammer came down towards the cap but hit rim of your hat....was I correct??? great video love your channel...
I would love to see how the buck and ball compares to just buckshot
The primary strength of buck and ball was when whole units were firing smoothbores with the load, thus filling the air with lead. And they didn't fire at much over fifty yards, so you have given us "proof of concept," to coin a phrase. Since every Confederate soldier shot during the War Between the States was said to have cost "a hundred pounds of powder and 900 pounds of lead," all those balls had to have improved hit ratio, whether the soldiers were killed or not. If hit in an extremity, the buckshot would have been less likely to break long bones, and thus would have been somewhat less severe than a hit from a Minie or round ball.
That recoil on the buck and ball... damn...
The hammer frequently brushes your hat brim, this has no effect on accuracy via flinches ? Still a very interesting comparison. Your knowledge of these vintage arms is quite impressive. Wonderful presentation !
Another great, honest, and accurate video. I believe that the mini ball at 100yds would probably kill in the first rank and wound in the second rank. { not to mention the body parts flying around.} However, anyone hit by any of the projectiles from that buck and ball cartridge could be "hor de combat" The average Union and Confederate soldier was thin, sick, and very dehydrated. With 130 grs of powder those buckshot must be moving along at about 1700, 1800 fps. Great Job.