The most popular percussion revolvers: original Colt 1849 Pocket .31 vs Adams .31
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The Colt 1849 Colt Pocket .31 cal revolver was produced in more than 325000 pieces from 1850 to 1873. This is simple the larges number from all percussion revolvers, beating all the .36 and .44 cal versions. In this video I cover its history and performance comparing it to a .31 cal Adams revolver, and its larger brother the 1851 Colt Navy. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Uberti and Pietta should start doing Adams reproductions. They just need to expand in general. There's so many cool percussion revolvers out there that people would love to have and would sell well.
True! It would be a very good idea, with correct price for this small revolver.
I could not agree more! There are plenty of good percussion revolver models to reproduce. The question is quantity and price. Tooling for such project costs 100-150k EUR, but I am sure there is a break even for a Beaumont-Adams repro in .44 cal.
Agreed, I've been wanting a cap and ball double action and would buy one in a heartbeat
@@balwgar92 here are Adams and Colt as pictured in a London newspaper in 1851 at the start of the 'Great Exhibition' (the first world's faire). Colt so ordered that nobody in Britain should fire his new revolver. But Prince Albert who had designed the great Crystal Palace insisted and was allowed. Because one cannot deny the husband of the Queen. Both the new Colt Navy and the new Adams pistol stole the show and were the hit of the exhibition.
Prince Albert's dedication and trials regarding the design and construction of the gigantic but elegant transparent palace take up a great part of 2 episodes of the TV series "Victoria".
www.rockislandauction.com/riacms/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Sam-and-Robert-WEB.jpg
@@balwgar92 You could get an original Adams for a low price ,usually with a lot of original finish.
Even though I live in America and modern firearms are readily available to us, there's something I love about these antique guns. The latter half of the 19th century is a very interesting time of firearms development.
Also, I loved the "Guns of the 1956 revolution" series. My grandfather fought in the revolution and it was very cool to see the firearms he may have used.
I totally agree! Here in America, more people need to know about the Hungarian Revolution and the heroes who fought it. Let's not let it become a forgotten war!
Superb yet again sir.
You and British muzzle loaders are the cream of the crop.
Awesome. Appreciate the uploads
My first revolver was a Colt 1849 in 31 caliber. It was reblued but safe to fire. I bought it in 1975 and I still enjoy shooting it. Your presentation is excellent, thank you.
Absolutely the BEST this guy, high caliber person. I’m in cap and ball heaven here, love the channel!!!
I want the Adams in .36 that you talked about. So cool!
I have the 1849 Colt as well,, I actually took it squirrel hunting and did quite well with it.. fun little gun.
I have a Uberti one. Definitely fun little gun.
I love your channel bro. You cover the little stuff in history that I didn't even know existed. Keep it up 👍
I’m a long-time subscriber, and there’s nothing I’ve seen on your channel more jarring than seeing you hold a modern semi-auto pistol! Love your channel!
Hey, I received my .36 and .44 cartridge boxes and they are superb. Well done! Thank you very much.
I follow your channel for years, and my love for old firearms just keeps increasing as you show those marvelous objects. Good luck and stay safe.
I love the pocket revolvers the most. always put a smile on my face. I hope you get the chance to shoot a pocket Remington or Whitney sometime.
Whitney shoots great. I’m waiting for my 49 to arrive to compare the two.
It's a shame that the 1849 isn't allowed in main matches for SASS shooting since they were actually the most popular of the original Colt cap & ball revolvers.
wait... a modern historical shooting association that ignores history? say it ain't so! lol I've found NMLRA and SASS like to cherry-pick what is "authentic" and what isn't lol.
It's almost like old farts that run historical societies don't like to be told their wrong or have anyone do things differently
Thanks for another great video, as always historical and a great practical demonstration
I enjoy your videos so much. Learning about old fire arms and muzzle loaders. I aslo enjoy you hunt with the old guns.
Great channel! Beautiful presentation and a joy to watch.
Thank you.
As always, an outstanding production.
The Adams would have been a much better selfdefense arm at the time, shame it never got the popularity it deserved in the US.
It’s black powder fowling presumably, and complexity
I imagine the Colt was cheaper, both because it seems simpler and because it was produced in higher numbers.
The Adams was produced in .36 and .44 also . .31 cal was very popular at the time , outselling the larger calibers .
@733Rafael they trying to compensate lol
Colt had the brand name going for them, as well as the massive industrial capacity of their factory. Not to mention being much simpler. It must have been substantially cheaper.
Two of my favourite black powder revolvers in one video!! Thank you very much indeed - a wonderful presentation as always!
Stay safe and be well my friend
I love your videos sir.
They are great history lessons about something I am passionate about. I have never view one of your videos and been disappointed.
Thank you for being as passionate about firearms as your constituents.
very informative and kept it interesting. thank you.
A very interesting video for sure on two iconic firearms 👍🏻
Saving for Saturday morning coffee! Love the channel!- Stay healthy- Brent
I have 2 original colt Pockets, one in 5" and one in 4". I bought them when they were still "affordable", 10 years ago. Nowadays prices are through the roof on these
i always liked the adams design, it looks just cool to me
Kind Thanks for this great comparison of these two Lovely revolvers! Many Blessings and Good Shootin! DaveyJO in Pennsylvania
Excellent and professional video. It is always interesting to see old firearms tested against each other. What would we buy back in those days?
The pocket bearmont Adams is definitely what I would have carried as a pocket gun. Much more modern, reminder me way more of modern j-frame revolvers
Back in the day the revolvers that were made more like modern revolvers also had something unique to their design, if such guns were not acceptable to the military then the guns would have limited circulation thus replacement parts would have been harder to obtain. Gun makers were always trying to please the establishment of either the military or large police forces, if their designs could not hold up to the tests then they fell through the cracks.
Great content very good thank you. Love your show.
nice old pistols. interesting video, and also neat to see the size comparison with the p365. That might be the first time I've seen you hold a new gun.
yes, not too often I shoot modern guns, but when I do, i choose the right one :)
EXCELLENT....Thank you...Nice shooting as well...!
The poster of landmines behind you while you are shooting is very interesting.
Hello my friend - you make such fine and educational videos! Thank you and bravo!
I love the old guns but its also time for a group of you to get together and design a 2020 percussion revolver. Brand new, all old problems remedied in a new design.
@@itsfyeo1520 What im against and tired of is the duplication of old guns because the quirks and whatnot of the old ones come with it. Its just my own thing. When you get a new one, its still the same shape, style and size as the old one, for example. Same barrels, handles, loading methods. Im ready for new designs that end the problems of the old guns. As i know, only CVA has modern percussion pistol. I would even be interested in a new flintlock with an all new firing method. Still flintlock, still muzzleloading, but the 21st century version of the concept. Thats what I was trying to say.
Excellent video!!!,
Good film
Someone was having fun with a semi-auto that day.
Who said it was semi-auto? The range is not in America.
@@georgeholt8929 they can use semi autos in Hungary. Capandball even did one on the AK-47.
Yes your correct, but like I said who knows for a fact the three shot burst you hear in the distance is coming from a semi-auto?
@@Procket12 I believe he's saying that it could be full auto or 3 shot burst auto.
Thank you... Been pondering 31s for a bit and looking at a colt repro. Hadnt figured on 2f in a revolver. Might have to try that in my Remington's, see if the arbor remains loose enough to keep going longer
I sure wish someone would reproduce these small DA English revolvers and the big Adam's. I'd be happy to pay a premium for a well made DA cap&Ball revolver. Even a copy of the Remington DA Navy if it's the correct size.
Super vid as always 👍☝🏻👍
Something to think about thank you
Damn, I'd love one of those Adams
It's true that the Adams has a shorter sight radius than the Colt, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Most people know that a longer sight radius gives you more accuracy, but what is almost never mentioned is that the sights will also take longer to line up.
A shorter sight radius can be an advantage on a defensive pistol, because you can line up the sights and get a shot off faster.
It will be inherently less accurate, but these guns were designed to be used at relatively short distances for defense, not long-range target shooting, so 'quick and dirty' accuracy is more important than pinpoint accuracy.
A shorter barrel also makes a gun easier to carry, especially if it is to be carried concealed in a coat pocket etc.
Coming from a military and security background I would always prefer the reliability, strenght and not forget the Double Action system.
So Adams wins. Thanks for sharing.
Greetings from Germany.
. 308
Thumb up for a good presentation.
The low ballistic performance of the 1851 applies only when conicals are used. My chronograph testing with Uberti 1851 replica with 21 grains premium 3f black powder and 140 grain conical reached an average 168 foot pounds (227.7 joules). With 28 grains 3f and 83 grain roundball, I attained an average 203 foot pounds (275.23 joules). I feel these results are more representative of the weapon’s full potential though historical paper cartridges would be less energetic. I will need to investigate the full potential of the 1849 another time.
It's encouraging to hear that semi-auto fire. It sounds like...Freedom.
Amazing good job 👍
I chose both. 450gr for adams and 720gr for the pocket its not too heavy to carry them
Accent makes it sound like you're saying "Hello, this is Captain Baul"
I salute you captian
:D
It would be interesting to see how the Remington 31 caliber pocket model does against these 2 revolvers.
Two things stood out for that Adams, that weird as hell loading arm, and how that rifling had almost no twist. Guess it didn't need to be accurate at range but it just stood out...
can you do a segment on making paper cartridges for the 31. 1849? I would love to start making them for my revolver.
I have an 1849 kammerbusche made by Bentz. Are they rare. Its in excellent condition. Your videos are awesome. Thank You.
I know thi sis an odd question but as someone who's going over archeological munitions from the era of these weapons would it be possible at all to see the fired rounds they produce?
damn flies
Quite enjoyable video, but it suggests some considerations not addressed. One is the question of cylinder-barrel gap. Could it be these individual examples of the Adams and/or the Navy be at a disadvantage to the Pocket by increased cylinder gap rather than by parameters of the models more generally?
A second question is not model or example specific, but more general. What is basis of your use of 2Fg powder in these handguns? I have long since lost the references, but over the past several decades of my interest in B.P. firearms, I have occasionally read descriptions of torn-down 19th century metallic revolver cartridges, and the powders were generally described as fine-grained, some even specifically as fine as 4Fg. I would expect that a faster powder could make a noticeable difference in the realm of barrel length and charge-to-ball-weight-ratios of these revolvers.
Barrel gap depends on the fit of the arbor to the barrel assembly. If the length of the arbor is right, the barrel gap is always the same. Power granulation: that's a good question. The powder in Colt cartridges was surely finer than the musket powder of the rifle-musket cartridges, but I have not found any reliable info on the actual grain size. Peter Schiffer in his book "Civil War revolvers Myth vs. Reality chose the 1,5F granulation which according to his experiments was closest to the performance of the 19th century musket powder. For a Colt cartridge that's too large in my opinion. I do have original military powder samples from the 19th century from Europe. I have musket powders and fine (rifle) powders. The musket powder is between 1-1,5F, the rifle powder is very close to 2Fg. The Hazard powder was surely finer than 1,5F, but I am pretty sure that is was not 4F. The closest equivalent can be the 2F or 3F powders. But let's not forget that grain size is important, but not the only factor to check: composition, cleanness of ingredients, surface can also effect the pressure.
@@capandball "Barrel gap depends on the fit of the arbor to the barrel assembly. If the length of the arbor is right, the barrel gap is always the same. "
There are also the matters of erosion at the rear of the barrel, and of wear and/or deformation of the recoil-bearing surfaces at the rear of the barrel and the face of the (for lack of the proper term) standing breech. Brass-frame revolvers of the ACW period were particularly subject to this if not adequately reinforced with steel, but even steel ones could suffer from this if the surface areas involved were not large enough. Then there is the possibility of inconsistencies from the barrel wedge on Colt-type open-frame models.
"But let's not forget that grain size is important, but not the only factor to check: composition, cleanness of ingredients, surface can also effect the pressure."
Indeed, B.P. performance (as well as fouling) is a much more complex matter than just grain size: ingredient purity, properties of the charcoal (a particularly complex subject), fineness of component milling, thoroughness of incorporation (a function of wheel weight and duration of mixture milling), degree of nitrate recrystallization/"glazing" (which is different from graphiting), grain size range and consistency, grain roundness or angularity, etc. The best source I have found on the subject was Bill Knight (a.k.a."The Mad Monk", but also on some forums as "Dutch Bill"), a chemist as well as a shooter, who studied the matter extensively, but I think he only published online. Most of the original sites seem to have been lost in the ether, but I found an archive at archive.org/details/mad_monk_bp_files and I would particularly recommend his 9-part series on the history and technology of powder production to anyone interested in the finer points of the subject.
I have found another reference to fine powder in original pistol loads:
www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/1992-powder.109280/post-1475055
According to the research of one fellow interested in Civil War paper cartridges who dissected one of the Hazard’s Pistol Powder .44 cartridges and found it contained 4F sized granules. Testing it against the old pendulum data it was found to be as powerful as Swiss powder.
Those cartridges held 36 grns of powder with a 211 grn bullet.
Did you say you load 2f powder? I have been using 3f powder based on the recommendations, but 2f is cheaper and easier to get here. Is it ok to use 2f in place of 3f?
Thanks
Bring back the savage a add slide back safty ring to cover the caps.
am I reading that right? 2.5 times the muzzle energy from the Colt compared to the Adams? Is it a matter of that 2.7 inches of barrel length or could the somewhat universal diameter of modern .31 projectiles be undersized in the bore of the Adams?
If it is possible do you have a Whitney pocket model to compare.
Forgot to say my 1849 kammerbusche by Bentz has the original tube lock.
For me personally, seeing as it's incredibly unlikely that I'm going to be going into combat, OR using a pistol for home defence, the aesthetics of the weapon are high on my priorities list. Out of these two, the Colt would be my choice. Lovely looking pistol, up there with the Colt Python, Browning Hi Power, Luger, and PPK as far as classic good looks go (Although significantly older!)
Are you using No. 11 percussion caps?
Can you give us a link to where you get the .31 bullets?
Dear Doug, try here: erasgonebullets.webstarts.com/
What's the closest cartridge equivalent to .31 caliber cap and ball? .32 ACP?
Nagyon tetszik a magyar akcentusod!
The slow rifling twist on the Adams will not stabilize the Colt-style conical bullet. The Colt-style "sugarloaf' conical bullets are typically around 1.5 calibers in length, or about 0.49 inches long for the .31 conical. The slow rifling twist of the Adams will not stabilize a conical of the length of the Colt-style conical. The Adams would be best used with a round ball, or a short conical not much longer than the diameter of the round ball of 0.330" (00 Buckshot).
Hello Balázs ! Yesterday I send you a message bottom the video about the Wänzl rifle. I copy this one now...
"I'm interesting in the reload... A question : the cases are original, modified of another caliber or actually produced ? What mark ??
Thanks for answer !
Dear Bablo, the cases I use are turned, not original. They were made in Austria by a friend of mine.
@@capandball but turned from what caliber ? I use shootshells 28 gauge
@@pablomeza7287 I mean turned from a brass bar
@@capandball OK , I understood now. My English isn't so good, excuse me. Thanks
You can argue calibers all day. Bottom line here is that any size piece of metal traveling at over 100FT/SEC is going to mess your day up if it hits you.
I want the Adams.
Another great video!
I'm on a number of Facebook black powder groups and a constant complaint is that the replica pistols are made by companies that never heard of quality control (sarcasm). Did original pistols also leave the factory with problems?
The originals, provided they came from a top-tier company like Colt or Remington, were of very high quality. Most of the modern replicas are made to a price point that does not allow for a lot of quality control.
Yes, they had. We have many accounts on rejecting arms sold to the government because of quality issues. For example: Colt had quality control, he had official government inspectors working at his facility. The parts they rejected got a "C" mark for condemned. These parts were later mostly used for civilian arms. I do not really think things were better in the "good old days".
I feel kinda bad, never even heard of an Adams - either way I'd take a Remington haha
I need to source some .330 round balls for my Colt Pocket model.
00 size buckshot
Yes, buck shot is the same size, the trick is getting them made of pure lead, or you will have a hard time loading them into the cylinder.
I would really like to see You develop a correct load, with the right bullet diameter, for the Adams revolver. I am convienced that the spread could be minimized by that. Thank You for great content and keep safe.
To the contrary : 1.The group sizes were well within requirements and expectations for pocket size .31 revolvers . 2. The horizontal spread was very tight , and the vertical spread is probably attributable to the very small sights , not the inherent accuracy .
@@filianablanxart8305 Adams revolvers are known for having "discrepances" between chamber mounth to barrel measurments (caliber). That is the reason for my request. I do not believe that the "colt bullet" is optimal for the Adams. It is important that the bullet/ball is tight in the chamber in a chamberloaded gun.
True enough from the perspective of dedicated gun enthusiasts . But in this video C&B was trying for period recreating of how the typical user would purchase premade paper cartridges from the local general store .
@@filianablanxart8305 I see your point but don´t you think this typical user would first and most likely gotten information when the gun was purchased on what and how to load the gun? I read your comment as the user is a "nongun" person and not very informed from the start. To just buy something that "might" work doesn´t seem wise. I don´t think that a wide selection of paper cartrides was availible on the typical general store. The gun was delivered with a bullet mold and that is what was used most of the time.
I chuckle . Spend some time hanging around a modern day gun store . " We " extrapolate from our personal experiences as " Gun Guys " . But for the average customer the conversation goes much like :
" Gimme a box of 9mm ( or .38 , etc) "
" Do you want practice ammo, or defensive ammo ? "
And they stop and think , then either ask what's the difference , or what's the price difference .
Back in the day , the typical .31 buyer wanted to be nominally armed , but with minimal inconvenience . It's an oversimplification , but back then , if you were reasonably knowledgeable , and wanted to be serious about defending yourself , you probably would have been using a .36 .
Good sir I am having trouble getting a reliable spark out of my reproduction Brown Bess. When I replace the flint I can get a few decent shots but it rarely lasts more then 2 or 3 before I have to fight to get her to shoot again. She also seems to tear the flints up rather badly in that time, chipping them quite a bit. Any ideas what could be causing the problems?
That sounds like too soft frizzen. You have to reharden the surface with adding some Kasenit to it. For heating it to cherry red you will need a torch with oxygen and propane gas.
@@capandball Might have to give that a shot. I tried getting a replacement frizzen, but that thing performed even worse (didn't even fit right despite supposedly being for a Bess). Could the soft frizzen be the cause of her chipping flints, or would that be a different issue?
I appreciate the help good sir.
@@demomanchaos Soft frizzen breaks the stone more often. Who made your Bess?
@@capandball I got it off "MilitaryHeritage.com" She's an India Pattern, and weirdly she had some rather nasty surface rust starting up barely a week or two after I got her. It holds up well when firing, but she doesn't like to give a good spark. I've been pondering seeing about just getting an all new lock if I can't get her to stop being fussy.
@@demomanchaos That is a common problem with India/Pakistani made arms. That musket will need a professional gunsmith. I also suggest to reproof the barrel by the proper authorities. These guns are exported as wall hangers not firearms.
Is it possible to get lead poising from 19th century weapons?
You are not supposed to eat the ball.
Why was there a poster of land mines behind you on the range?
Used to be a military range, now it is only civilian.
Can you carry in Hungary? Do you need a permit for each gun? Up to what caliber?
And BTW, thank you for all your top notch videos
A vertical string of shots can be caused by your heart beat too.
When you demonstrate clones I don't bother to watch. That's just a commercial for the manufacturer. Though some of your viewers find that helpful, you get my undivided attention when you shoot originals and for that I thank you.
I keep wondering why the longer barreled Colt 1849 pocket is not made in a reproduction by Uberti or Pietta. At least I havent been able to find any. Personally I am not a fan of the shorter barrel.
Hmmmm. Interesting. I like the idea of an Adams repro. It wouldn't have been a good choice as a first effort, but with the current level of interest in "days gone by", I think that an Adam's repro would sell like hotcakes if the MSRP were reasonable. How about it Pietta and Uberti???
Yeah I know I am three years late to this party but I decided to comment anyway, WHY do people always seem to want to say (as was done in this video) the pocket model Colts are a "downsized '51 Navy" when it's so obvious that it's the other way around? I say "obvious" that it's more correct to say the "51 Navy is a scaled up 1849 Pocket because the pocket came first! Yet people still want to say the little Pocket model is just a scaled Navy when 1849 comes BEFORE 1851.
And the savage in 44 cal
2F ? I thought you were trying to replicate historic cartridges. I would imagine that "Fine" powder was considerably small sieve than 2 f
Before I watched the video I thought the double action Adams would be better for short range self defence. The Colt better for target shooting. For once I was right. I do like the shape of the Adams Steam punk with a capital V.
I love you videos, any way you could put feet per second for us American guys? I always have to convert it.
Aztat a cső alatti kilinycset kicserélném egy jó kis piacos ződlazerre!
my review on this video: woofwoofwoof/10
No 0W40 engine oil in this lube mix?
NO, NO, NO! Dead dinos and black powder fouling create a very nasty, hard to remove TAR. It'll gum up a revolver in no time.
Colt Bacana 👏
Bring back a copy of navyarms 36 mulear in 40 cal rifle
I totally understand about the Adams have a size factor comparable to modern compact handguns popular for concealed carry . And the SA vs DA/ SA . But between these two specific pistols , the power difference can Not be ignored .
Not fluent in Jules , a did rough conversion of MPS to FPS , assumed 76gr bullet , and crunched some comparison numbers .
The Adams is only about 40ftlb , the Colt 100 plus
Yes, yes , Ft Lb ( or Jules) viewed in a vacuum , is a very poor predictor of effectiveness . But 40 ft lb is really, really, really low . Yes, yes , with precise shot place , and some good/ bad luck , 40 ft lbs may well eventually prove . At that level of non power , a legitimate discussion can be had of mouse gun vs other than firearms implements . I'd have a tough choice between a 40ft lb pistol vs a blackjack or expandable baton .
But This Colt's would be comparable to the terminal effects of modern pistols in the
32acp ( 7.65mm for Europe ) class .
So between these two specific pistols , the Colt would be worth the effort to carry the larger pistol .
But I suspect that if both revolvers had 4.5- 5 inch barells , the velocities would be fairly close to each other .
Challenge accepted. Reach's into waist coat pocket and produces 5-shot double action, folding trigger Velo-Revolver in .32 S&W. Have at thee ruffian.
like.
Give me the Adams because at point blank defensive distances a double action revolver is more practical.
That is a Colt Baby Dragoon not a Colt 1849 Pocket Revolver
Killer Calibro .32 lol!
Steve uk 👍👍