So basically it's a laptop in a mini-pc form factor but it doesn't have any of the laptop advantages such as integrated screen, keyboard and battery but it also doesn't come with any of the actual PC benefits. It performs and throttles like a laptop would but instead of being portable and mobile it just looks like a quirky sci-fi trashbin. Not to mention maintenance, most people don't have any experience with custom LC so servicing this thing will be impossible for them, once the pump fails it's pretty much dead. And since it doesn't have any standard parts other than the laptop ram and the SSD, you won't be even able to salvage anything from it. Truly an amazing piece of technology.
I think it having a MXM module is interesting. I didn't even know that Nvidia made those anymore. Mini pcs are boring, but having the ability to upgrade the GPU is a plus.
It has a lot more ports than it's counterpart laptops in the same price range, and you don't have to buy another set of display and keyboard when you upgrade.
And it's gonna get a lot worse. Over time they will become more flat and restricting the flow. You can't even make a good lasting bend that tight with the best quality tubing. I know because i have 1 bend like that in my system with tygon tubing. Everytime i replace the water i will replace that piece of tubing.
I seen this mini pc on alot of other youtube channels, everyone talks ok about it, you on the other hand, you start with the title of the video itself lmao, bu i appreciate the honesty
The amount of air in that loop is enough to keep a whole space colony going for a century, Jesus Christ. I saw positive reviews of Geekom's other mini PCs (AX8) and even that is being called into question when they have such a tragic showing here.
@@mikezappulla4092 I'm not buying it for 90 different reasons, it having more air than my lungs can breathe in and out within a month is surprisingly not high on my complaints for this system.
The pump is moving the fluid way too fast causing crashing = trapped air not escaping, if you could slow it down the air will have a chance to merge to one bubble..
Probably, also helps with the just in time manufacturing and efficiency of production to have some idea how popular the device will be before you put it into normal production I'd expect. No point making a million units if you will only sell a thousand. So yeah advertising is likely part of it, but I expect there is also a degree of increasing profitability as your can optimise the production runs for the scale of interest.
Of course it is and has been for a few years. A company with revenue in the tens to hundreds of millions selling on a global market doesn't have to ask people on Kickstarter for $20k to start a production run.
Definitely, and it's not like it's limited to them either. Though Indiegogo is far worse, a lot of KS campaigns are just launch/presale campaigns, typically identifiable by their strangely low funding targets, which tells us that the company doesn't actually need the funding to get manufacturing going, they're just looking to gauge customer interest
This is well known, and hardly limited to Chinese PC manufacturers (off the top of my head Peak Design is famous among photographers for doing this, and they have no shortage of R&D budget as a very well established and high margin photography accessory manufacturer)
Been looking forward to see someone else cover this since I saw Dawid Does Tech video, there has been a bit of discussion about what people think is a fake loop.
Pretty sure the top part is just for "wow factor" and doesn't do anything. Because they're just pointless loops anyways. Someone really needs to hit it with a thermal camera while under load to confirm though.
I believe the apparent tubing (the transparent ones) is just for show and isn't really there to cool the components. The cooling tubes are the black ones you encountered when you disassembled it.
The memory frequency fluctuation is normal for laptop memory, although it should be sitting at full speed under load unless there's something weird going on.
Thanks for actually reviewing this system. I've a friend who is interested in this system. The only reason that I can think of to have a Kickstarter despite there being a review unit is that this is a one-off or limited run prototype. I've seen one other review, and that reviewer claimed that the noise was under control and whisper quiet, but also felt that the system was a nightmare to upgrade/maintain.
RAM clock fluctuation is from Geyserville (SAGV) being enabled, it can be done on regular motherboards too. It triggers with no memory controller activity and Cinebench doesn't use RAM. CPU usage on the screen can also be showing Utilization, which can freely exceed 100% too.
Daniel Owen reported the same thing with fan speed settings. He switched it to Quiet due to noise, then switched it back to Normal and felt the fan speeds were lower than they were originally.
Some established tech brands still run kickstarters to create a hype cycle and get some free funding. But it doesn't feel very professional imo. The oculink is popular on mini pc's nowadays because it has significantly more actual bandwith than thunderbolt 4 (64 gbit for oculink x4 vs 40 gbit for thunderbolt), because its simply PCIe over a cable. This is interesting if you want to upgrade with an external gpu, there are already gpu docks with oculink.
135% of cpu utilization is because monitoring reads out frequency above base frequency. if base is 2Ghz and CPU boosts to 3Ghz - that monitoring will show 150%. i am understanding this issue that way. HWinfo64 has same feature in readings.
Also, the CPU “utilization” / “utility” figure in Windows can go above 100% anyway on modern CPUs. Something to do with pipelining of instructions I believe
I like that they have a fair amount of USB ports in the front, but should really have been at least 1 USB C. And the rear really needs analog audio out. But water-cooling on mobile hardware doesn't make sense. A proper air-cooler should be more than sufficient. Unless they run the components with as high turbo as possible as long as possible.
I’ve watched a decent amount of people cover this thing (Dawid, TB, etc) and it seems like the general consensus that albeit it’s quite a feat of engineering and it got that “cool” factor, nearly 2 grand for it is definitely catering to a *niche* audience that… may not even buy this. I’m unsure how to feel about it, not gonna lie
I'd like to see Roman or Darwid rebuild it to make it actually good. Fix the air in the loop and BIOS bug's and maybe even find out how to reprogram the health display. It could actually be a real cool system if the bugs are worked out. Especially the power limits (which I assume is likely because of small vrm capacity and low power PSU) and the ram bug needs fixing!! I wonder if the ram bug disappears if you change the sticks with something else. But it really looks cool and could be worth the premium price as long as the company fixes all the issues and addresses the public explaining that they apologise and are working to fix the issues.. I want to see this become better.
@@michaellegg9381 Yeah it can be engineered way better. The thing is in itself not bad, just has tons of room for improvements (serviceability, airflow, pump, power capability, etc...) If everything was nicely engineered and without a single flaw, i'd consider the 500$ more price to pay. But tbh its overpriced for what it brings right now.
I saw a comment on another review video saying that the tubes and water inside the case are purely cosmetic and not part of the cooling system. Not sure if it's true or not.
I have been wondering how the loop works tbh, 2 inlets and 2 outlets, yet only 2 black ribbed tubes to the block that actually cools the cpu/gpu which I assume goes to the radiator/pump. If purely cosmetic..that would be extremely stupid and a complete waste of material. It may take a little while but I think Der8auer needs to tear it down further.
@@sinAnon6689 There's another 70mm rad and fan up top. Way too many places for air to get trapped and too many tight bends for a high rpm tiny impeller pump
Yeah, I think the top loops is fake, just recirculating water for show. You can see black tubes leaving the block when he pulled the motherboard out. A thermal camera would prove it, since it seems difficult to get to.
Fan noise could be the 70mm fan hidden up top. Looks like the watercooling continues up top as well so that could explain all the trapped air from so many corners and bends. Those decorative tubes certainly aren't helping
not bleeding from air a watercool system is the first and last red flag I need from a "watercooled" system. If you dont get that right, you'll have lost in cooling performance, impact negatively the noise (pump noise, etc.). And also pump longevity will be impacted if it sucks that much air in the long term. It's a nice try but definitely not a final product by anymeans. Having a 8GB gpu in 2024 is also a no no, even at 1080 you'll have issue nowadays thank you for the review! as always top quality!
I believe the clear looped portion is fake and separate. When he showed the water block it had black tubing coming out of it likely headed to the radiator. Would be cool to see it further torn down to confirm, but I'm suspicious that the top portion is only there to put on a show for the wow factor. Edit: someone should hit it with a thermal camera.
@@volvo09 The clear tubes are unnecessary, but they're both part of the loop. The clear tubes take it to/from the pump on the other side of the GPU (9:40), but the pump could have just been directly connected to the tube-hiding (and likely distributing, since they have double tubes for no reason) things on either side of it, which would make it look like it wasn't water-cooled at all.
The reservoir problem is easy to fix with a flat stile one in a side panel with two hard tubings instead of one of the bend tubes, also in that panel you can put a screw to put new or different liquid and get rid of the excess air.
Many thanks for the review, 1) it is way outside my budget, 2) I like easy to maintain systems, 3) the air in the cooler is a big problem since there is no way to remove it.
Aesthetically this is beautiful, I really like the looks and form factor. But damn, that price is insane! If it was around €800/€900 I might’ve considered buying one but no chance at these prices. Edit: finished watching, that build has some weird issues. Definitely not worth buying!
I would honestly get this IF it was better and could be maintained. it seems like it would be a pretty decent small form factor editing rig for on the go but currently it's too limiting out of the box and it would be up to the user to fix their mistakes
As an "other pc" owner, i much rather put my 3080 and 13700k to work, using a real psu (1200w), running fast and cool with a quiet Noctua 14NHD and noctua case fans. I made this pc myself and payed under 50% of the asking price of the megamini pc. All the parts were from the second hand market, but came with little to no usage (most parts came in completely new). If i could find all these deals and learn pc architecture along the way, so can you, buddy!❤
Thanks so much for the interesting video, it's nice to see such an honest review and your honest opinion for this Mini PC. It does look nice from the outside but as far as inside I have to agree with your feedback, not worth the money in the end! Looking forward to seeing your next videos! Thanks for all your hard work on the channel bringing us great tech content!
I first saw this on another channel and my initial thought was that the engineering behind it was awesome. I'd throw away money on it, but not for a 13th gen processor. When they stick in at least the first gen core ultra, I'll think about it again. I get your negative vibes on the kickstarter. I have hate for Minis forum for doing the same thing on some of their minis.
Many established brands run kickstarter campaigns to judge user interest. Even Cooler Master is currently running kickstarter for their product. In photo industry its much more common for established brands to do kickstarters.
So laptop hardware made to fit in a small desktop form factor but without the appropriate software/firmware to scale up power usage. Close, but not close enough.
The English word you’re looking for is kinked, it looks like it’s nearly got a kink in the tube. I love the look of it. I saw in another video where the reviewer mentioned the fill port when he pulled out the GPU. I would love to see you buy one and make a video and fix its shortcomings. Replace the tubing with hard tubing and obviously bleed the system better, then apply some kryonaut paste and crank up the settings and see just how much performance you can get from it. I love the look of the little beast, but can’t justify buying one. I hesitated a little to watch this video because you’re always very in depth and I knew you would shatter my illusion of it. Anyway I love watching your videos and look forward to seeing more.
The pump noise is very likely caused by all the bubbles... which, shouldn't be hard to fix that. Pump itself also might benefit from additional vibration isolation, which is probably possible.
The word you were looking for in English when you decided to use “buckling” I think is “kinked” or “creased” Example with all 3 words in context: To stop the water flow from a garden hose while it’s on, begin by buckling the hose until it is creased at the fold, and you will have successfully put a kink in it which will stop the water as long as you hold tight.
@@--_DJ_-- true, a “kink” would be more temporary and undo-able while a crease would be more permanent - like the “fold-line” after folding paper or the crease one irons into a nice pair of slacks
5:12 - I winced hardcore at that. I've tried to peel off single layers of PLA on my Bambu and had the plastic stab under my nail. And it usually takes days before the finger feels normal again. I would have returned this thing right then and there.
Its an instagram product for people who like shiny toys that they never actually use but like to show them off on social media, like having a Land Rover Defender but living in Central London
All the other ad channels that did positive reviews of this unit are having a bad day when a real tech channel does a legitimate review. Hopefully larger respectable channels will do this more often, to slow down marketing like Geekoms'.
Would have been interesting to see how the machine sounded if you could manage to bleed the air out of it, but with how challenging it was to even partially disassemble I can see why you didn't bother experimenting further (also all the other issues making it a non-starter). Neat idea though, would like to see better execution. For people with limited space, it's always nice having more off-the-shelf options for super compact gaming rigs so you don't need to become an ITX assembly wizard yourself just to get something that fits in your apartment.
Clock fluctuation on the memory is very common in laptops to save power (and perhaps help a bit with thermal?). The same thing happens on my (rather old) Ryzen 5 5600H based Lenovo laptop.
I think they went with a Kickstarter because they went with actual xmx laptop gpus and maybe even had to commission them on their own because they are not used in any other devices as far as I know currently.
i bet the power going back down to 45 watts so fast on the normal mode, is due to these being a rolling average, p2 will limit it to 115, but if the average power used in however long is more than p1, it'll limit it to 45w 45 and 115 is a much larger gap than 55 and 35 on quiet mode
Kink, buckle, collapse... All good terms to describe it. I wonder if it's already kinked feeding the pump and causing a vacuum cavitation situation. Would explain the air never working its way to the top of the rad.
The Rams fluctuating MTs seems to me that there is an adaptive setting that maybe unchangeable in the bios due to how the design is. I know that CPUs have the setting and have seen it for desktops but usually it's auto disabled if you use a XMP profile. This is why I think it is part of the bios and not a configurable setting. Although, it could just be a bug in the bios. I do not recall that you said that you checked if there was a bios update or not. But yeah, I wouldn't waste money on it either.
19:42 Ill bet theres more than just packaging at play with the m.2 thing...easily remedied but they chose...not to.. The bigger m.2 and heat soak.. being under the cpu/gpu locations and everything else.. yeah. I wonder if it just adds to the thermal overload if you remove that standoff, move the cmos and install a bigger m.2
I'm sharing my experience with one of Geekom’s mini PCs, the A8. After five months of use (I was one of the first customers), I really regret it. The Geekom A8 might seem great at first, but honestly, it’s a product that wasn’t well developed since it has constant bugs with different programs. For example, anything audiovisual (video or sound recording) is terrible. It might work for everyday stuff like browsing the internet or low-end games, but for more professional tasks, it’s a no-go. The processor doesn’t support overclocking, so the system gets overwhelmed quickly with heavier workloads. The cooling system doesn’t allow the processor to handle high-performance tasks, which causes real-time conflicts with several apps. On top of that, the AI NPU they talked about isn’t even visible. And finally, the BIOS is terrible - you can barely change anything, maybe the date and time if you're lucky. Honestly, I wouldn’t recommend this brand at all. You’re better off with a regular desktop PC.
I have to wonder if maybe you received an early engineering sample that wasn't 100% instead of the fully complete and polished model. It definitely looked like there were some bios issues and software misconfiguration from the start. I also have to wonder if maybe due to the current issues with Intel that they were pushing a custom bios to try and avoid any hardware failure for customers so they don't have to deal with returns. All in all I thought it was a great video, and like you I thought the engineering around it was really cool. I hope they can iron out these issues to provide a good product, I'd love to see where it goes.
Maybe for the CPU monitoring it's checking what HWiNFO reads as "Utility" rather than "Usage" Running CB it shows as 120%+ utility, whatever the difference may be...
I suspect I know what's happening with the 135% CPU load on the little monitor. HWmonitor gives two different values for CPU usage - total CPU usage and core utility. Core utility is apparently what task manager reports (though is capped at 100% in task manager), but the number can go above 100% (and I've seen it do so while testing my laptop). I have no idea how the number is calculated, or frankly why it's reported in task manager over total CPU usage, but I'm willing to bet that little screen is pulling that number.
The moment I saw the bubbles in the tubing before you powered on the system I knew this will be a disaster ... they have enough space for a large tower HSF and heatpipes there that would be more effective without the issues ...
I saw another review of this (can't remember who at the moment, sorry) saying the liquid in the tubes doesn't even circulate through the water block? Sounds absurd I know, but ...?
so around 25:00 you were looking for the right word in English, and you said 'buckling' which is the right word, kinda... but we would say that the tube 'kinked' or 'there is a kink in the tube' yea, that's a weird word, we also use 'kink' to describe 'strange sexual acts' so it's a REALLY weird word to use LOL ..... but buckling works too, but in the States we would say 'kinking' 'kinked' or just 'kink'
5:52 thunderbolt 3/4 is pcie 3.0 x4 and not full speed becuase its not directly pcie, thunderbolt 5 is pcie 4.0 x4. But oculink still delivers better performance because its direct pcie
I love the design and form factor. The ideas here are awesome and it’s pretty innovative but… the price is way too high imo. I saw dawid does tech stuff review this and even though he was more optimistic and glowing, I saw what he really was trying to get across. I’m quite on the fence about this pc simply because of the price. Theres some improvements for sure they could do but honestly the price should be the first thing they improve on.
The drastic drop in memory clock and cpu power draw sounds like a firmware issue on the hardware like it's not fully cooked and hard limits aren't in place. This would be a very non smooth experience in gaming you'd be frustrated with the constant jitter. As for OCU-Link that's for external GPUs least from what iv seen with other mini boxes they tout it as a option to boost the gaming capabilities of a tiny mini PC, but it's also EOL tech from the server Market as they are moving to a copper link apparently.
Looks very airflow limited. They could've gone for a slightly thicker radiator and better vents. That would've massively improved the thermals and sound. The random tubes probably make the air bubbles worse. They could've also probably halved the height if they didnt go for that weird window thing with tubes everywhere. I'm looking forward to the custom micro cases and cooling systems other people make with this. The sandwich block and teeny gpu is cool.
Thank you for never being 'bought' and giving us honest reviews even if it costs you sponsorships/benefits.
dont worry, not enough money has come his way yet. These companies are relentless
@@4dchessplayer516 do you not know who this man is? ;-)
@@ap894 Ikr, He is not linus!
Everyone has a price
@@4dchessplayer516 you do know he is mr Thermal Grizzly right?
So basically it's a laptop in a mini-pc form factor but it doesn't have any of the laptop advantages such as integrated screen, keyboard and battery but it also doesn't come with any of the actual PC benefits. It performs and throttles like a laptop would but instead of being portable and mobile it just looks like a quirky sci-fi trashbin. Not to mention maintenance, most people don't have any experience with custom LC so servicing this thing will be impossible for them, once the pump fails it's pretty much dead. And since it doesn't have any standard parts other than the laptop ram and the SSD, you won't be even able to salvage anything from it.
Truly an amazing piece of technology.
Basically my thoughts. Laptops are also quieter than this. Most people who buy this probably don’t really understand what they are buying.
Mini pc wise it is interesting, but yea most people aren’t going to be able to maintenance this thing.
I think it having a MXM module is interesting. I didn't even know that Nvidia made those anymore. Mini pcs are boring, but having the ability to upgrade the GPU is a plus.
and they fked up the bios something fierce.
It has a lot more ports than it's counterpart laptops in the same price range, and you don't have to buy another set of display and keyboard when you upgrade.
That "Other PCs" section is hilarious.
@@PREDATEURLT I had to borrow a Megamini GT just to be able to comment on this video.
@@PREDATEURLT The other PC struggle is real. 8(
"Kink" is the word you're looking for in English when tubes compress when at an awkward bend 🙂
I thought kink was a German word 😂
Yes. Kink indeed is the right word. The word also has connotations concerning how some people might be "bent"... 😏
And it's gonna get a lot worse. Over time they will become more flat and restricting the flow. You can't even make a good lasting bend that tight with the best quality tubing. I know because i have 1 bend like that in my system with tygon tubing. Everytime i replace the water i will replace that piece of tubing.
@@PilatuS23
Sounds like a digestive issue.
Might wanna get that checked.
@@johnswan4551 The Kinks were an English rock band founded in 1963
I seen this mini pc on alot of other youtube channels, everyone talks ok about it, you on the other hand, you start with the title of the video itself lmao, bu i appreciate the honesty
saw
@@WilhelmvonFahrvergnugen Oh my bad professor
Thats why we all watch him , no marketing 100% honest quality tester ❤
The amount of air in that loop is enough to keep a whole space colony going for a century, Jesus Christ. I saw positive reviews of Geekom's other mini PCs (AX8) and even that is being called into question when they have such a tragic showing here.
Going for that public park fountain look
It’s just air. Don’t buy it if you are that stressed out over it.
@@mikezappulla4092 Just air that reduces cooling performance, pump life and increase noise.
@@mikezappulla4092 I'm not buying it for 90 different reasons, it having more air than my lungs can breathe in and out within a month is surprisingly not high on my complaints for this system.
The pump is moving the fluid way too fast causing crashing = trapped air not escaping, if you could slow it down the air will have a chance to merge to one bubble..
I'm starting to think that chinese mini pc/handheld companies see kickstarter as a platform for advertising their products at this point.
Probably, also helps with the just in time manufacturing and efficiency of production to have some idea how popular the device will be before you put it into normal production I'd expect.
No point making a million units if you will only sell a thousand. So yeah advertising is likely part of it, but I expect there is also a degree of increasing profitability as your can optimise the production runs for the scale of interest.
Exactly that, basically a free launch campaign!
Of course it is and has been for a few years. A company with revenue in the tens to hundreds of millions selling on a global market doesn't have to ask people on Kickstarter for $20k to start a production run.
Definitely, and it's not like it's limited to them either. Though Indiegogo is far worse, a lot of KS campaigns are just launch/presale campaigns, typically identifiable by their strangely low funding targets, which tells us that the company doesn't actually need the funding to get manufacturing going, they're just looking to gauge customer interest
This is well known, and hardly limited to Chinese PC manufacturers (off the top of my head Peak Design is famous among photographers for doing this, and they have no shortage of R&D budget as a very well established and high margin photography accessory manufacturer)
Been looking forward to see someone else cover this since I saw Dawid Does Tech video, there has been a bit of discussion about what people think is a fake loop.
Pretty sure the top part is just for "wow factor" and doesn't do anything. Because they're just pointless loops anyways.
Someone really needs to hit it with a thermal camera while under load to confirm though.
Can't believe anyone actually admits to watching Dawid, fake trash content, as if people actually watch him lol
@@celeriumlerium8266 ... you children are very strange about your youtube loyalties.
Wow what a quick review! Ive seen an article about this only a couple days ago and was wondering how it runs. Thanks, awesome!
I believe the apparent tubing (the transparent ones) is just for show and isn't really there to cool the components. The cooling tubes are the black ones you encountered when you disassembled it.
Form over function, the PC
The memory frequency fluctuation is normal for laptop memory, although it should be sitting at full speed under load unless there's something weird going on.
yea I get it for idle. But why does it clock down during Cinebench load? :D
@@der8auer-en Yeah that's...definitely less than optimal lol.
@@der8auer-en If they did fix the issues I could see it being a fun little machine for people who don't mind paying the "It looks cool" tax though.
@@st0nedpenguin Apple fanboys mostly.
@@MoultrieGeek Apple fanboys would just get an Mac. This is more of a "poser" thing
Thanks for actually reviewing this system. I've a friend who is interested in this system.
The only reason that I can think of to have a Kickstarter despite there being a review unit is that this is a one-off or limited run prototype.
I've seen one other review, and that reviewer claimed that the noise was under control and whisper quiet, but also felt that the system was a nightmare to upgrade/maintain.
RAM clock fluctuation is from Geyserville (SAGV) being enabled, it can be done on regular motherboards too. It triggers with no memory controller activity and Cinebench doesn't use RAM. CPU usage on the screen can also be showing Utilization, which can freely exceed 100% too.
Thanks! When a hose goes too far it kinks English version have a good day
Daniel Owen reported the same thing with fan speed settings. He switched it to Quiet due to noise, then switched it back to Normal and felt the fan speeds were lower than they were originally.
Some established tech brands still run kickstarters to create a hype cycle and get some free funding. But it doesn't feel very professional imo. The oculink is popular on mini pc's nowadays because it has significantly more actual bandwith than thunderbolt 4 (64 gbit for oculink x4 vs 40 gbit for thunderbolt), because its simply PCIe over a cable. This is interesting if you want to upgrade with an external gpu, there are already gpu docks with oculink.
With many of the products, in the end they still calculate the "R&D" in the consumer price, while that was 'covered' by the KS
Thank you for finding these unique systems and giving a thorough and honest evaluation.
135% of cpu utilization is because monitoring reads out frequency above base frequency. if base is 2Ghz and CPU boosts to 3Ghz - that monitoring will show 150%. i am understanding this issue that way. HWinfo64 has same feature in readings.
Also, the CPU “utilization” / “utility” figure in Windows can go above 100% anyway on modern CPUs. Something to do with pipelining of instructions I believe
I like that they have a fair amount of USB ports in the front, but should really have been at least 1 USB C. And the rear really needs analog audio out. But water-cooling on mobile hardware doesn't make sense. A proper air-cooler should be more than sufficient. Unless they run the components with as high turbo as possible as long as possible.
I’ve watched a decent amount of people cover this thing (Dawid, TB, etc) and it seems like the general consensus that albeit it’s quite a feat of engineering and it got that “cool” factor, nearly 2 grand for it is definitely catering to a *niche* audience that… may not even buy this. I’m unsure how to feel about it, not gonna lie
Who else covered it? I’ve only seen Dawid and this one
This would suit Dawids demographic
I'd like to see Roman or Darwid rebuild it to make it actually good. Fix the air in the loop and BIOS bug's and maybe even find out how to reprogram the health display. It could actually be a real cool system if the bugs are worked out. Especially the power limits (which I assume is likely because of small vrm capacity and low power PSU) and the ram bug needs fixing!! I wonder if the ram bug disappears if you change the sticks with something else. But it really looks cool and could be worth the premium price as long as the company fixes all the issues and addresses the public explaining that they apologise and are working to fix the issues.. I want to see this become better.
There's also Daniel Owen
@@michaellegg9381 Yeah it can be engineered way better. The thing is in itself not bad, just has tons of room for improvements (serviceability, airflow, pump, power capability, etc...) If everything was nicely engineered and without a single flaw, i'd consider the 500$ more price to pay. But tbh its overpriced for what it brings right now.
Subbed because of this review. The honesty is refreshing
I saw a comment on another review video saying that the tubes and water inside the case are purely cosmetic and not part of the cooling system. Not sure if it's true or not.
I have been wondering how the loop works tbh, 2 inlets and 2 outlets, yet only 2 black ribbed tubes to the block that actually cools the cpu/gpu which I assume goes to the radiator/pump.
If purely cosmetic..that would be extremely stupid and a complete waste of material.
It may take a little while but I think Der8auer needs to tear it down further.
Marketing tubes
@@sinAnon6689 There's another 70mm rad and fan up top. Way too many places for air to get trapped and too many tight bends for a high rpm tiny impeller pump
Yeah, I think the top loops is fake, just recirculating water for show. You can see black tubes leaving the block when he pulled the motherboard out.
A thermal camera would prove it, since it seems difficult to get to.
You’re the third TH-camr I’ve seen review this. One of the others took it apart as well. I’d say it’s wild if they are sending the same unit around
Fan noise could be the 70mm fan hidden up top. Looks like the watercooling continues up top as well so that could explain all the trapped air from so many corners and bends. Those decorative tubes certainly aren't helping
not bleeding from air a watercool system is the first and last red flag I need from a "watercooled" system. If you dont get that right, you'll have lost in cooling performance, impact negatively the noise (pump noise, etc.). And also pump longevity will be impacted if it sucks that much air in the long term.
It's a nice try but definitely not a final product by anymeans.
Having a 8GB gpu in 2024 is also a no no, even at 1080 you'll have issue nowadays
thank you for the review! as always top quality!
I believe the clear looped portion is fake and separate.
When he showed the water block it had black tubing coming out of it likely headed to the radiator.
Would be cool to see it further torn down to confirm, but I'm suspicious that the top portion is only there to put on a show for the wow factor.
Edit: someone should hit it with a thermal camera.
What makes it a nice try? The throttling laptop parts? The stupid AI marketing? Like name one part that is good about it because I cannot see any.
I think for most things the 8gb on the GPU is fine lol
@@volvo09 I'll tear it down if I get one.
@@volvo09 The clear tubes are unnecessary, but they're both part of the loop. The clear tubes take it to/from the pump on the other side of the GPU (9:40), but the pump could have just been directly connected to the tube-hiding (and likely distributing, since they have double tubes for no reason) things on either side of it, which would make it look like it wasn't water-cooled at all.
This would be a super cool design/look.... If we were 50 years in the future and high end PC hardware was this small and not a repurposed laptop.
Great introdued n very great n useful explaining the whole system 👍great job n well done bro😊
"Kink" is the word you're looking for. If you put a kink in the hose, it will stop the water flow. It is a slick little gadget, though.
The reservoir problem is easy to fix with a flat stile one in a side panel with two hard tubings instead of one of the bend tubes, also in that panel you can put a screw to put new or different liquid and get rid of the excess air.
Many thanks for the review, 1) it is way outside my budget, 2) I like easy to maintain systems, 3) the air in the cooler is a big problem since there is no way to remove it.
Aesthetically this is beautiful, I really like the looks and form factor.
But damn, that price is insane!
If it was around €800/€900 I might’ve considered buying one but no chance at these prices.
Edit: finished watching, that build has some weird issues. Definitely not worth buying!
I would honestly get this IF it was better and could be maintained.
it seems like it would be a pretty decent small form factor editing rig for on the go but currently it's too limiting out of the box and it would be up to the user to fix their mistakes
As an "other pc" owner, i much rather put my 3080 and 13700k to work, using a real psu (1200w), running fast and cool with a quiet Noctua 14NHD and noctua case fans. I made this pc myself and payed under 50% of the asking price of the megamini pc. All the parts were from the second hand market, but came with little to no usage (most parts came in completely new). If i could find all these deals and learn pc architecture along the way, so can you, buddy!❤
I got the impression from another reviewer the fluid in the tubing is not part of the cpu/gpu cooling but just for show.
Maybe the new way of overclocking is to increase CPU Utilization limit! Dunno why I never thought of that, way to go Geekom! 👍
2:41 "Experience unparalleled storage capability with Dual-Channel DDR5 RAM [...]" 🤔
@@P4NCH1 I love my storage RAM, best upgrade ever
buckling-- the word you were looking for is 'kink'
your english is fantastic
Thanks so much for the interesting video, it's nice to see such an honest review and your honest opinion for this Mini PC. It does look nice from the outside but as far as inside I have to agree with your feedback, not worth the money in the end! Looking forward to seeing your next videos! Thanks for all your hard work on the channel bringing us great tech content!
I first saw this on another channel and my initial thought was that the engineering behind it was awesome. I'd throw away money on it, but not for a 13th gen processor. When they stick in at least the first gen core ultra, I'll think about it again. I get your negative vibes on the kickstarter. I have hate for Minis forum for doing the same thing on some of their minis.
Many established brands run kickstarter campaigns to judge user interest. Even Cooler Master is currently running kickstarter for their product. In photo industry its much more common for established brands to do kickstarters.
So laptop hardware made to fit in a small desktop form factor but without the appropriate software/firmware to scale up power usage. Close, but not close enough.
Ah yes, Desktop formfactor, Mobile limitations. That's exactly what the world needed.
The English word you’re looking for is kinked, it looks like it’s nearly got a kink in the tube.
I love the look of it. I saw in another video where the reviewer mentioned the fill port when he pulled out the GPU. I would love to see you buy one and make a video and fix its shortcomings. Replace the tubing with hard tubing and obviously bleed the system better, then apply some kryonaut paste and crank up the settings and see just how much performance you can get from it.
I love the look of the little beast, but can’t justify buying one. I hesitated a little to watch this video because you’re always very in depth and I knew you would shatter my illusion of it.
Anyway I love watching your videos and look forward to seeing more.
The pump noise is very likely caused by all the bubbles... which, shouldn't be hard to fix that. Pump itself also might benefit from additional vibration isolation, which is probably possible.
A PS5 Pro is going to be $700 and people are mad about it. This thing for $1700 is just madness
Oculink in the mini pc space is to hook up external gpus. Oculink has much higher bandwidth than USB4/Thunderbolt thus reducing the performance tax.
While other youtubers shillout I have more respect for you man!
About the kickstarter thing, pretty sure some other big company did that to, while having a lot of money they still pulled one :)))
The word you were looking for in English when you decided to use “buckling” I think is “kinked” or “creased”
Example with all 3 words in context:
To stop the water flow from a garden hose while it’s on, begin by buckling the hose until it is creased at the fold, and you will have successfully put a kink in it which will stop the water as long as you hold tight.
Crease is usually reserved for paper or cloth type materials.
@@--_DJ_-- true, a “kink” would be more temporary and undo-able while a crease would be more permanent - like the “fold-line” after folding paper or the crease one irons into a nice pair of slacks
5:12 - I winced hardcore at that. I've tried to peel off single layers of PLA on my Bambu and had the plastic stab under my nail. And it usually takes days before the finger feels normal again. I would have returned this thing right then and there.
Thank you for this PSA. Well done.
OCuLink is basically the same ar PCIe x4 slot. So for any PCIe device, like external GPU, 10G+ NIC, SSD.
Its an instagram product for people who like shiny toys that they never actually use but like to show them off on social media, like having a Land Rover Defender but living in Central London
All the other ad channels that did positive reviews of this unit are having a bad day when a real tech channel does a legitimate review. Hopefully larger respectable channels will do this more often, to slow down marketing like Geekoms'.
Would have been interesting to see how the machine sounded if you could manage to bleed the air out of it, but with how challenging it was to even partially disassemble I can see why you didn't bother experimenting further (also all the other issues making it a non-starter).
Neat idea though, would like to see better execution. For people with limited space, it's always nice having more off-the-shelf options for super compact gaming rigs so you don't need to become an ITX assembly wizard yourself just to get something that fits in your apartment.
Are those front tubes fake? like just for show? cause i can see the AIO tubes under that block and now im confused what those tubes are for
Clock fluctuation on the memory is very common in laptops to save power (and perhaps help a bit with thermal?). The same thing happens on my (rather old) Ryzen 5 5600H based Lenovo laptop.
The accidently swapped the "Stands Out" section in the marketing fluff. They described a good PC against a laptop motherboard in a box. LOL.
I think they went with a Kickstarter because they went with actual xmx laptop gpus and maybe even had to commission them on their own because they are not used in any other devices as far as I know currently.
Hypothetically it's upgradeable
i bet the power going back down to 45 watts so fast on the normal mode, is due to these being a rolling average, p2 will limit it to 115, but if the average power used in however long is more than p1, it'll limit it to 45w
45 and 115 is a much larger gap than 55 and 35 on quiet mode
I love how there is two crowd reaction of seeing how good it looks vs it's just a glorified NUC lol
Yeah, it's only the looks wowing people.
Just buy a NUC.
The word you're looking for about the tubing is Kink 😉
Kink, buckle, collapse... All good terms to describe it. I wonder if it's already kinked feeding the pump and causing a vacuum cavitation situation. Would explain the air never working its way to the top of the rad.
Many established brands do the kickstarter shit.
Because it shifts the risk from them to the customer.
The Rams fluctuating MTs seems to me that there is an adaptive setting that maybe unchangeable in the bios due to how the design is. I know that CPUs have the setting and have seen it for desktops but usually it's auto disabled if you use a XMP profile. This is why I think it is part of the bios and not a configurable setting. Although, it could just be a bug in the bios. I do not recall that you said that you checked if there was a bios update or not. But yeah, I wouldn't waste money on it either.
Everyone is doing Kickstarter campaigns. Especially on products that they're not sure that people will buy them ...
the word you were looking for is "kink" when a hose collapses on itself due to a twist or bend, it's kinked.
19:42 Ill bet theres more than just packaging at play with the m.2 thing...easily remedied but they chose...not to.. The bigger m.2 and heat soak.. being under the cpu/gpu locations and everything else.. yeah. I wonder if it just adds to the thermal overload if you remove that standoff, move the cmos and install a bigger m.2
Kink or kinking is the word you are looking for regarding the soft tubing.
I'm sharing my experience with one of Geekom’s mini PCs, the A8. After five months of use (I was one of the first customers), I really regret it. The Geekom A8 might seem great at first, but honestly, it’s a product that wasn’t well developed since it has constant bugs with different programs. For example, anything audiovisual (video or sound recording) is terrible. It might work for everyday stuff like browsing the internet or low-end games, but for more professional tasks, it’s a no-go. The processor doesn’t support overclocking, so the system gets overwhelmed quickly with heavier workloads. The cooling system doesn’t allow the processor to handle high-performance tasks, which causes real-time conflicts with several apps. On top of that, the AI NPU they talked about isn’t even visible. And finally, the BIOS is terrible - you can barely change anything, maybe the date and time if you're lucky. Honestly, I wouldn’t recommend this brand at all. You’re better off with a regular desktop PC.
I have to wonder if maybe you received an early engineering sample that wasn't 100% instead of the fully complete and polished model. It definitely looked like there were some bios issues and software misconfiguration from the start. I also have to wonder if maybe due to the current issues with Intel that they were pushing a custom bios to try and avoid any hardware failure for customers so they don't have to deal with returns. All in all I thought it was a great video, and like you I thought the engineering around it was really cool. I hope they can iron out these issues to provide a good product, I'd love to see where it goes.
It sounds like many of the issues can be fixed with bios updates. That leaves the problem of getting air out of the system.
Someone is jealous of this mini pc!
Definitely needs more BIOS options.
Interesting video. Have you fed lol this information back to Geekom and what have they said?
I have never seen memory timings fluctuate like that under load, is that a DDR5 thing? or a power saving feature/gear down mode?
so complicated, could have been smaller even with a chunky tower cooler on it that probably could do better
Maybe for the CPU monitoring it's checking what HWiNFO reads as "Utility" rather than "Usage"
Running CB it shows as 120%+ utility, whatever the difference may be...
I was hoping you'd find a way to put some more liquid in those tubes to see how it run after that.
Luxury present for your best grandma.
I suspect I know what's happening with the 135% CPU load on the little monitor. HWmonitor gives two different values for CPU usage - total CPU usage and core utility. Core utility is apparently what task manager reports (though is capped at 100% in task manager), but the number can go above 100% (and I've seen it do so while testing my laptop). I have no idea how the number is calculated, or frankly why it's reported in task manager over total CPU usage, but I'm willing to bet that little screen is pulling that number.
Something just hit me:
Where does the fan take in fresh air? I don't see any obvious inlets. The little slits at the top look extremely restrictive.
The moment I saw the bubbles in the tubing before you powered on the system I knew this will be a disaster ... they have enough space for a large tower HSF and heatpipes there that would be more effective without the issues ...
I saw the YT channel Dawid Does Tech Stuff when he tested this system and his system also had a lot of bubbles in the water loop which I pointed out.
When it first turns on and it's full of air bubbles :O
14:15 Strong possibility that the PCI-E lanes are being down clocked.
Odd der8auer doesn't know about that laptop platform trick.
I saw another review of this (can't remember who at the moment, sorry) saying the liquid in the tubes doesn't even circulate through the water block? Sounds absurd I know, but ...?
so around 25:00 you were looking for the right word in English, and you said 'buckling' which is the right word, kinda... but we would say that the tube 'kinked' or 'there is a kink in the tube' yea, that's a weird word, we also use 'kink' to describe 'strange sexual acts' so it's a REALLY weird word to use LOL ..... but buckling works too, but in the States we would say 'kinking' 'kinked' or just 'kink'
Since its this expensive already and has pretty much 1 fan, why don't pick the best fan possible, it's probably just some noname chinese fan.
5:52 thunderbolt 3/4 is pcie 3.0 x4 and not full speed becuase its not directly pcie, thunderbolt 5 is pcie 4.0 x4. But oculink still delivers better performance because its direct pcie
I love the design and form factor. The ideas here are awesome and it’s pretty innovative but… the price is way too high imo. I saw dawid does tech stuff review this and even though he was more optimistic and glowing, I saw what he really was trying to get across. I’m quite on the fence about this pc simply because of the price. Theres some improvements for sure they could do but honestly the price should be the first thing they improve on.
Those are some nice glass grass enclosures. Do you happen to......... can you....... grow weed in it?
All them air bubbles gurgling through the pipes lmao
Thank you. You're the first person that didn't filate the computer or company in one of these reviews.
rtx4060 mxm sound nice to upgrade my minisforum HN2673 Intel Arc A730m. Do you have an idea where to buy the mxm rtx4060?
Thanks for reviewing
Nice idea. I think with a water port will be a good idea.the pcb is custum that add price and more with MX card. Let see is interesting
Maybe power down mode is on for RAM in bios
What i find a complete waste is that the whole computer is in the bottom 30% the top 60% is used for cooling incredibly inefficently
Desk decoration that also includes a computer
@@verbose2615 to be honest a $1500+ artpieces are total scam so i would take one with the computer in it any time
The drastic drop in memory clock and cpu power draw sounds like a firmware issue on the hardware like it's not fully cooked and hard limits aren't in place.
This would be a very non smooth experience in gaming you'd be frustrated with the constant jitter. As for OCU-Link that's for external GPUs least from what iv seen with other mini boxes they tout it as a option to boost the gaming capabilities of a tiny mini PC, but it's also EOL tech from the server Market as they are moving to a copper link apparently.
Looks very airflow limited. They could've gone for a slightly thicker radiator and better vents. That would've massively improved the thermals and sound.
The random tubes probably make the air bubbles worse.
They could've also probably halved the height if they didnt go for that weird window thing with tubes everywhere.
I'm looking forward to the custom micro cases and cooling systems other people make with this. The sandwich block and teeny gpu is cool.