Do you think Elizabeth I was a traitor due to either the Wyatt or Dudley rebellions? Let me know below and don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
I think she was innocent. Just by all the history I’ve looked up. I’m extremely fascinated by British kings and queens. I even bought a book on it many years ago. Still have it and love looking at it over and over again.
Actually, I’m not sure she was completely 💯 innocent of at the very least, knowledge. But I think she was very charismatic, (like her mother) and her followers were very loyal. But she was also very smart, and I would bet you doughnuts to dollars she could see her 17 year older sister wasn’t well. She was excellent at keeping her head. But I doubt Mary would have really executed her. She loved her a lot when she was a baby, and she was her fathers daughter, too. I think she knew, but told them no, personally.
@@elizabethsands4470 I like Loyalty. That scores big points with me. My impression was that QEI could be extraordinarily Machiavellian ... when She had to be. And She had to be, pretty much all the time. Great Comment! ~TD, Boston
I don't see Elizabeth as a traitor. Just like Mary, Elizabeth is a survivor. They survived their father and each other as well all the rebellions against each other. They each have different ways of being remembered by history, but survivors they will always be.
I can certainly agree on her being a survivor. I think she would have been a traitor from Mary's point of view, but it's hard to tell (for us) exactly what she got up to in the Wyatt and Dudley rebellions. Thanks for watching and commenting.
I am biased towards Elizabeth because I hate catholicism and I think its one of the worst things that has happened to humanity and it held humanity back for sooo long , people living in lies and orruption, but I can empathize with Mary, she had tough life and she was brainwashed by pope and catholic religion and I can see where her hatered towards chhritians came from
I don't think she was a traitor. She was just trying to survive. She seems to be the smartest of all of Henry's children and I think she was observant and played the game right. Edward had no guidance or real advisors acting in his best interests - just those who took advantage to "better" themselves. Mary was bitter and running out of time in terms of producing a heir. Elizabeth knew that telling her what she needed to hear was a winners game.
I agree. I think she was very clever too and a real survivor. I'm going to voice what I suspect is an unpopular opinion on the whole and say that I think she probably was aware of the Dudley conspiracy and that her activities would have amounted to the definition of treason, however I also see how she got there. I don't think she had too much to do with the Wyatt rebellion, yet she ended up in the Tower anyway. I can understand how, the next time an opportunity came around to potentially be free of Mary, she was more open to it, thinking that if she was going to be blamed for a conspiracy anyway, she might as well try to help it succeed. I wonder sometimes if this is part of the reason she was lenient on Mary, Queen of Scots for so long. Perhaps she remembered what it was like to be the focus of conspiracies and the temptation to get involved? Just an idle supposition on my part though. :-)
I doubt Elizabeth was an explicit traitor. Her situation with her sister was much the same as her situation would be with Mary Queen of Scots: she was endangered by both of them (Mary Tudor, the more directly) and might well have wanted them to disappear, but at least three things stood in the way: they were both, as she was, anointed queens, whom to kill was to her a kind of sacrilege; she feared that having set the example, others might think of disposing of her in the same fashion; and her nervous temperament and perhaps the fate of her mother made her extremely reluctant to act directly to remove a woman and a relative in such a way. While her servants doubtless knew about the second rebellion, I am sure they had been warned to keep it from Elizabeth's ears. It was like her to await events. Another thing I am curious about is whether Elizabeth would have taken an active part in a plot that included marriage to Courtenay. She might have agreed, but if the plot had succeeded, given her aversion to marriage, would she have actually married him? Marriage to an English subject she had not selected for herself would have been a costly price to achieve the throne.
I must say these stories are far more interesting and understandable then any of the others I have watched on the Tudors, you do an excellent job of putting forth these informative videos. Congratulations and thank you so much.
Compelling video as always! I don’t think Elizabeth was a traitor and actually acted in much the same way as Mary had done while she was Edward’s heir. Her outward compliance with Catholic doctrine was much less severe than Mary’s masses held against Edward’s strict instructions, for example. Evidence of her involvement in either plots against Mary were circumstancial at best, nothing as seditious as fleeing England to her powerful cousins abroad as Mary had almost done, where she could have returned with the might of Catholic Europe behind her and replaced Edward. Elizabeth fell under more scrutiny than Mary ever did as this time around, the heir to the throne lacked the protection of a powerful foreign family, as her mother was a minor English noblewoman; she was a lot younger than Mary and therefore couldn’t command the respect she could over Edward as his elder sister and godmother; and having being born during the lifetime of Catherine of Aragon, was considered by both Protestants and Catholics to be illegitimate. By repealing the annulment of the Aragon marriage, Mary drove a needless wedge between herself and Elizabeth, and I think she misinterpreted Elizabeth’s response to this gulf as her scheming to take the throne. Trauma has a funny way of reappearing, as Mary’s old fears of being replaced by Elizabeth must have resurfaced at this time. In my view at least.
Hi, thanks for watching and commenting. Yes, I think Mary did drive Elizabeth away at the start of her reign. I didn't really have room to fit into the video, but after she repealed the annulment and her attitude towards Elizabeth changed, she was even making E. give precedence to their cousin, Lady Margaret Douglas, at court and quietly discussing removing E. from the succession. Elizabeth was also, as you say, not closely related to any of the great European families and therefore didn't have the same resources as Mary to protect herself. I think from Mary's point of view, she would have been considered a traitor, but it's easy to see how she got to the point of (perhaps) countenancing a regime change. They certainly had a very dysfunctional sibling relationship.
@@HistoryCalling indeed! It’s always fascinating pondering what their relationship may have been had Henry perhaps, waited until Catherine died to wed again, or set her aside in a much less disgraceful manner like many other kings before him. Annulling the Aragon match in my opinion, also didn’t require bastardising Mary. 400 years earlier when Louis VII of France divorced Eleanor of Aquitaine who also failed to produce a male heir, their daughters together remained legitimate. However, that was in France, a kingdom in which princesses and their descendants are excluded from rule, while the Tudor claim to England is founded on female rights. I think this factor, and Mary’s treatment under the Sheltons, made any closeness between the sisters fragile at best.
Agreed. It was totally unnecessary to make Mary illegitimate or to treat her as badly as he did. She'd been born 'in good faith', meaning she could still be considered legitimate. Henry was just a horrible person in my opinion, at least by that point in his life. I'm not surprised the two sisters couldn't maintain a close bond after everything Mary had endured at Anne and the Boleyns' hands and that's before we get to the massive age gap and the religious differences.
@@undiamas2069 I don't believe so. I was raised seventh-day adventist and currently have a godmother who I'm still close to, even though I currently identify as a non-Christian. I think godparents (then as now) function more like traditional kinship bonds between well-meaning families, than a recreation of any religious ethos
I’m sure you get this all the time, but I just love your voice! It’s perfect for narration! And I fully agree with what another commenter said a year ago: I don’t think Elizabeth was a traitor. I also don’t think Mary was evil. We need to remember that Mary’s mother, Catalina (Catherine) was the daughter of The Catholic Kings, Fernando and Isabelle (Spanish Inquisition). Both Elizabeth and Mary did what they had to do and both stayed true to who they were right up til the very end. Neither were to be bossed around or told what to think. It does seem that Elizabeth was more clever and politically savvy (never putting things in writing, craftily avoiding answering incriminating questions), but they both stood strong in a time when women, especially royal women were seen as pawns on a chess board. I think we can learn much from both of them!
Ooo. I haven't gotten past the intro yet, but there's at least one channel out there that demonstrates old letter locking techniques, and people in the comments couldn't figure out why this would be necessary, because if it was read, would it still be sent? There were others who gave reasons, but I never heard or thought about forging additions. Now THAT is an excellent reason to tamper-proof letters!
I’m really enjoying your Tudor videos - concise and full of good, accurate information. Your voice is very pleasant and easy to listen to. Thank you for your hard work. Elizabeth was not the instigator and I can’t call her traitorous. However, she would have had to go along with it if they had succeeded. Thankfully she got there on her own by being patient and waiting it out. If she hadn’t she could have been used as a pawn and controlled by those who put her ton the throne.
Hi Linda, thanks for watching and commenting. I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. Yes, Elizabeth certainly did have the qualities of caution and patience and they served her well.
That's an interesting observation that Elizabeth "would have had to go along with" a successful coup against Mary. Knowing what we do about Elizabeth's attitudes and behavior toward Mary Queen of Scots further down the road, no doubt she would have been terrified to have come to the throne in that way, as it would have set a precedent and made it much more likely that she could be toppled from her high place and, of course, murdered. So, she was fortunate that her ascent was lawful in exactly the manner prescribed by the law (third Act of Succession of 1543/4) and her father's will.
The scene in Elizabeth (the Cate Blancett film) between her & Mary (played superbly by Kathy Burke) was extremely moving. The young Elizabeth pleading to Mary for her life & you see the dying Mary torn by something like sisterly love and what she saw as her duty to the Catholic realm. The rest of the film might have taken too many liberties with history but I imagine if there was a conversation between the two if would have gone something like that.
I have traced my family tree on my mom's side back to Thomas Wyatt of the Wyatt Rebellion. His father also called Thomas Wyatt was said to be in love with Anne Boleyn. This is so interesting. I also traced my husbands family tree back to Sir John Cheke (Cheek) who was also kept in the tower of London by Queen Mary, I believe and also had met Anne Boleyn. I love your channel and have been binge watching ever since I subscribed.
I believe it is possible she was aware of the 1st plot, but stayed out as completely as possible. The event with Jane Gray would have given her caution. The 2nd, she may not have been so innocent. She may have felt she was on stronger footing, or (more likely) she may have felt that she would be condemned anyway, so why not try to help the success of it. I think Mary knew, but after two embarrassing false pregnancies, She would not be embarrassed again by trying to condemn her sister, yet again. You really can't put words and thoughts into long dead people, but this seems to scream out over time.
Can't wait for next Friday!! You always have the best content of things I have never seen before... Such as the letters and the pictures! I enjoy it so very much!! Thank you.
Love these videos. Love your voice! Great storyteller! It's midnight here but I'm determined to get through the Elizabeth videos. I said I'd binge in one day all your videos, but there's so much info, my mind needs breaks. :) hehe
Just subscribed. Your voice is calming and your content clear and informative. I love history and this is great 😍😊 thank you for putting so much time and effort into this educational material for us to consume
QE1 was a great Queen. She stabilized England and grew it into United Kingdom today. Stopped all the wars for attaining power. She moved forward from a dark time.
Elizabeth was too smart to support a rebellion. Had a rebellion been successful would she have taken advantage. No unless Mary was killed then she'd be the rightful queen anyways. I think she just sat back and let it all play out.
Elizabeth did not give an answer, she was cunning, she got rid of all his accusations, both with Seymour and with the rebellion, she definitely had a gift with words. However it cannot be denied that all the clues led to her, suspect.
@@HistoryCalling thats all good! What drew me to her and what i know from her i watched in the tv show Reign. I know its not all factually correct but they did a pretty good job! Defos recommend a watch! 🖤 Frary for life 😂
Not quite what you’ve asked - but she was given the best tutors and an excellent Classical education, proving herself a worthy student in Latin, history, modern languages, and political philosophy. She would have read the practical advice of Cicero and Roman history with its battles and plot twists. She was given an education for a future ruler, though these sources may not have helped her to know how to handle Seymour.
The Wyatt rebellion caused the execution of Lady Jane Grey. Mary I pardoned Jane for ascending the throne, but the Wyatt rebellion was considered a second act of treason. Elizabeth I then was imprisoned. I think Elizabeth was probably aware of Wyatt's plans, but was not involved in it; Elizabeth denied having any knowledge of it. Isn't it ironic the King of Spain helped save Elizabeth, and years later became bitter enemies.
The king of Spain only really saved her to prevent the French from gaining power, and because he intended to marry Elizabeth after Mary died. I bet he regretted saving her when she refused to marry him lol
They certainly lived in ‘interesting’ times did they not? If you had any royal blood at all, you’d better take good care of your head! Thank you. 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🙏
Exactly. Being remotely royal was incredibly dangerous. Poor Lady Jane Grey never even did anything wrong. She was just a pawn of her family and it still cost her her life. Henry VIII killed some of his mother's family too who I didn't have space to mention in his videos. It was a bloodbath at times.
In some ways, I would suspect her just a bit. Elizabeth sometimes is never too clear in her statements and allowed some wiggle room. But there’s no official and hard proof. She was just living more or less and people were doing things for her. And in her name. I am in the middle.
I love these videos. But I'm 15 minutes in and I've had 5 ads already. Seriously egregious! WTH is up with that? I understand ads bring revenue, but an ad every 3 minutes is a bit much.
Thank you for watching and for your feedback. It's a bit of a long answer, but essentially TH-cam suggests how many ads to place based on the length of the video and I adjust the timings so that they appear at more natural breaks in my speaking. While I would like to have fewer, I think that's a luxury that larger channels have. A small channel like this makes very little money as it is, yet takes at least 20 hours per video to keep going and more for these longer videos that go above 15 minutes. I'd be reluctant to cut into the pittance I'm getting any further. I should also say that I have no control over the type of ad you see and how many of them you see. Not everyone sees all the ads placed and some people just get the text ads across the bottom the screen, rather than the video ads that stop my video playing. I know it can be a little annoying, but I hope this gives you a bit more of an insight into the 'behind the scenes' of the channel at least, so that you can understand where I'm coming from. I appreciate you watching the videos and supporting the channel.
😮yes she survived her father's rampage. And when king Henry itist have been a relief felt by the court unit it must have been a bittersweet time for her
I do believe Elizabeth was a traitor at heart but was only interested in the big picture and not the minutiae or operations of either rebellion. Therefore when asked, she wasn't lying that she didn't know (well, perhaps a bit). Like any good card player, she knew when to bluff and say or write the right words.
No absolutely not. She was too smart for that. Also I’m an American 🇺🇸, every time you say “tower”I thought you were saying “tar” and I kept thinking 💭 🧐 I’m going to have to look up this place I’ve never heard of it. It took me part one and 6 minutes to figure it out.😁 I’m bingeing you and I subscribed. So I think you’re charming.
Hi Roo. Yes, I've had a few comments on my accent, though in your case I don't mind it as it's clear you're not trolling and just genuinely needed a few minutes to adjust to it. I do appreciate that it's not an accent heard on TV and in movies very often, so an international audience won't have been exposed to it as much as they have to say, an English accent of the Kate Winslet or Kate Middleton variety. Thanks for watching and subscribing. :-)
I'm a Finn and I was listening to her videos while doing laundry and always stopped midway at "tar" ans felt really confused about what that mysterious place might be and it took me way too long to realize 🤦♀️ love history and love this content, her voice is so calming. I usually listen to these at night time before I go to sleep, learning and relaxing at the same time 😊
Not to mention, they would all have to give back all the stolen church property. Henry left the kingdom deeply in debt. Edward did try to fix this. It just was impossible because the monastery system had been the social welfare system. That gave rise to the later poverty of Oliver Twist in the Victorian era.
I'm well thanks. I have indeed. It played quite fast and loose with the historical record though, which always grates with me (and not just the casting I hasten to add, though I know that's what everyone's talking about). In particular Anne and Jane's make-out session in the gardens got an eye-roll from me and the costumes needed a lot of work. Anne wasn't really dressed any better than her ladies in waiting, none of the hoods had veils and literally no one had an English gable hood. One thing I'll say about The Tudors is that while no one really looked Tudoresque, they certainly did look royal. Natalie Dormer had a wardrobe to die for (no pun intended!). Still, it was Channel 5, so I assume they were on a tight budget and that that helps to explain the costumes. The locations weren't really grand enough either, but again, I'm prepared to make allowances for budgets and for potential filming restrictions due to the pandemic. Hope you're keeping well too.
I don't think Elizabeth was much involved in these plots because of her obvious intelligence. If she had been the one in charge, she either would have prevented them or made them a huge success. She would have known better than any that he who would strike at a King--or Queen--had better kill him.
So Mary had twice a phantom pregnancy ? Why did Mary die so young? And her husband seems to have been very unhealthy. Your explanation of why Philip favored Elizabeth in the end is probably correct. I like it anyway.
Do you think in your opinion Elizabeth the 1 won Mary queen of Scots and she won both battle and war at the end or do you think Mary queen of Scots won the war what do you think in your opinion thanks
Oh I think Elizabeth won out in the end. Mary spent 19 years as her prisoner after all, before being executed by her. Their relationship will be covered more in the next couple of videos.
@@HistoryCalling Her great grandmother to be exact. Margaret Beaufort was a brilliant politician who was responsible for getting her son on the throne.
Yes, she was a traitor. That's why she was so afraid of being assassinated, people disobeying any of her rules, etc. And that's why she was so harsh on anyone who did. She was terrified of the same thing being done to her, that she had done to Mary. Like they always say...." It takes one to know one" There's no way she didn't know what was going on, but was very clever and wily, and knew how to protect herself and implicate others. If they hadn't lied for her in order to keep her safe, she would have been executed like any other traitor.
@@HistoryCalling I was not considering the perspective of Mary I. I was considering the matter from a historical perspective. Otherwise it gets too confusing. Everyone can call anyone a traitor.
It was the worst of times.....it was the best of times.... Strange, french (Catholic) supporting overthrowing catholic queen over protestant queen in waiting.
Perhaps he was concerned about Philip II's continuing influence on England as king, and wished to remove Spain and its influence from the country. His son the Dauphin was married to Mary Queen of Scots, and perhaps he didn't fancy Philip or Philip's potential son on his son's doorstep.
France and Spain were bitter rivals at the time, and for them, a Spanish Catholic on the throne was worse than an English Protestant, especially since Elizabeth had at least on paper converted to Catholicism
Elizabeth was a s wise as her tutor my ancestor Kate Parr. I doubt she took any active part in the revolt but on saying thus must beg that she knew well all that was proposed and waited on the lines . Her actions with Thomas husband to Kate her temptation without doubt .How much she made it obvious to him she wanted him we cant ever say .Then Kate had it that she did.
If she were innocent she would not have ended at the tower for 9 months Mary was merciful to spare her and keep her in the succession How guilty she was it’s not easy to determine in fact that is why she survived the ordeal I think that she saw problems and she tried to keep away in the hope to be spared or to prevail
I don’t think her presence at the tower was an indication of guilt. She was in the tower because that showed anyone who was attempting rebellion in her name that she was unavailable, bereft of power, and it was hopeless to continue. Mary wasn’t merciful with Lady Jane Grey even though she was innocent of plotting against her. Maybe Mary felt guilt over Jane’s death and refrained from killing Elizabeth because of that and the fact that she had not been able to bear an heir herself and wasn’t willing to kill off everyone in the succession until that happened. If she had birthed an heir I have no doubt she would have executed Elizabeth. Not everyone who went to the tower was guilty or deserved to be there, but was there at the pleasure of whatever monarch was in power.
Merely being kept in the Tower was no indication of actual guilt. Plenty of people ended up there having done nothing but be merely suspected of a crime, or merely because they displeased the monarch.
No she had to survive, they had hard lives everything they did was watched by people who were not always honest and had their own agenders, it was a dangerous time to live in 🙁
Queen Elizabeth l, The Virgin Queen, born Virgo during the year of The Snake. The Skillful, beguiling ways of her God Given Snakey nature saved her life. Queen Elizabeth lst could never be called a traitor since Protestantism was the English truth, since from her father's break from Rome and during The Reign of her brother. Catholic Mary stepped in like a thief and so the good spirit prevented her heirs.
Elizabeth was a Roman Catholic. She was baptized into the Roman Church, anointed queen and received the various Catholic Rites that were required at her Coronation and attended her Coronation Mass and received Catholic Holy Communion at that Mass and many other Masses prior to her Coronation and continued to until there was a definite Protestant split of the Church in England and the Pope issued her Excommunication!
Elizabeth was not a Roman catholic. She was careful at the start of her reign to start no religious problems, but instances such as when she told some monks to "do away with the candles. We see well enough" to stop a Catholic practice indicated her preference.
Do you think Elizabeth I was a traitor due to either the Wyatt or Dudley rebellions? Let me know below and don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
I think she was innocent. Just by all the history I’ve looked up. I’m extremely fascinated by British kings and queens. I even bought a book on it many years ago. Still have it and love looking at it over and over again.
Actually, I’m not sure she was completely 💯 innocent of at the very least, knowledge. But I think she was very charismatic, (like her mother) and her followers were very loyal. But she was also very smart, and I would bet you doughnuts to dollars she could see her 17 year older sister wasn’t well. She was excellent at keeping her head. But I doubt Mary would have really executed her. She loved her a lot when she was a baby, and she was her fathers daughter, too. I think she knew, but told them no, personally.
Traitor? No. Politically savvy? OH, YES!!!! And so masterful at navigating a most precarious political landscape at such a young age! Wow!
Not at all ... loyal to her subjects (much like Elizabeth II) to the end. May she be at peace with the angels
@@elizabethsands4470 I like Loyalty. That scores big points with me. My impression was that QEI could be extraordinarily Machiavellian
... when She had to be. And She had to be, pretty much all the time.
Great Comment!
~TD, Boston
I don't see Elizabeth as a traitor. Just like Mary, Elizabeth is a survivor. They survived their father and each other as well all the rebellions against each other. They each have different ways of being remembered by history, but survivors they will always be.
I can certainly agree on her being a survivor. I think she would have been a traitor from Mary's point of view, but it's hard to tell (for us) exactly what she got up to in the Wyatt and Dudley rebellions. Thanks for watching and commenting.
preach!
I am biased towards Elizabeth because I hate catholicism and I think its one of the worst things that has happened to humanity and it held humanity back for sooo long , people living in lies and orruption, but I can empathize with Mary, she had tough life and she was brainwashed by pope and catholic religion and I can see where her hatered towards chhritians came from
I don't think she was a traitor. She was just trying to survive. She seems to be the smartest of all of Henry's children and I think she was observant and played the game right. Edward had no guidance or real advisors acting in his best interests - just those who took advantage to "better" themselves. Mary was bitter and running out of time in terms of producing a heir. Elizabeth knew that telling her what she needed to hear was a winners game.
I agree. I think she was very clever too and a real survivor. I'm going to voice what I suspect is an unpopular opinion on the whole and say that I think she probably was aware of the Dudley conspiracy and that her activities would have amounted to the definition of treason, however I also see how she got there. I don't think she had too much to do with the Wyatt rebellion, yet she ended up in the Tower anyway. I can understand how, the next time an opportunity came around to potentially be free of Mary, she was more open to it, thinking that if she was going to be blamed for a conspiracy anyway, she might as well try to help it succeed. I wonder sometimes if this is part of the reason she was lenient on Mary, Queen of Scots for so long. Perhaps she remembered what it was like to be the focus of conspiracies and the temptation to get involved? Just an idle supposition on my part though. :-)
I doubt Elizabeth was an explicit traitor. Her situation with her sister was much the same as her situation would be with Mary Queen of Scots: she was endangered by both of them (Mary Tudor, the more directly) and might well have wanted them to disappear, but at least three things stood in the way: they were both, as she was, anointed queens, whom to kill was to her a kind of sacrilege; she feared that having set the example, others might think of disposing of her in the same fashion; and her nervous temperament and perhaps the fate of her mother made her extremely reluctant to act directly to remove a woman and a relative in such a way. While her servants doubtless knew about the second rebellion, I am sure they had been warned to keep it from Elizabeth's ears. It was like her to await events.
Another thing I am curious about is whether Elizabeth would have taken an active part in a plot that included marriage to Courtenay. She might have agreed, but if the plot had succeeded, given her aversion to marriage, would she have actually married him? Marriage to an English subject she had not selected for herself would have been a costly price to achieve the throne.
I must say these stories are far more interesting and understandable then any of the others I have watched on the Tudors, you do an excellent job of putting forth these informative videos. Congratulations and thank you so much.
Thanks Tom :-) I'm glad you like them.
Compelling video as always! I don’t think Elizabeth was a traitor and actually acted in much the same way as Mary had done while she was Edward’s heir. Her outward compliance with Catholic doctrine was much less severe than Mary’s masses held against Edward’s strict instructions, for example. Evidence of her involvement in either plots against Mary were circumstancial at best, nothing as seditious as fleeing England to her powerful cousins abroad as Mary had almost done, where she could have returned with the might of Catholic Europe behind her and replaced Edward. Elizabeth fell under more scrutiny than Mary ever did as this time around, the heir to the throne lacked the protection of a powerful foreign family, as her mother was a minor English noblewoman; she was a lot younger than Mary and therefore couldn’t command the respect she could over Edward as his elder sister and godmother; and having being born during the lifetime of Catherine of Aragon, was considered by both Protestants and Catholics to be illegitimate. By repealing the annulment of the Aragon marriage, Mary drove a needless wedge between herself and Elizabeth, and I think she misinterpreted Elizabeth’s response to this gulf as her scheming to take the throne. Trauma has a funny way of reappearing, as Mary’s old fears of being replaced by Elizabeth must have resurfaced at this time. In my view at least.
Hi, thanks for watching and commenting. Yes, I think Mary did drive Elizabeth away at the start of her reign. I didn't really have room to fit into the video, but after she repealed the annulment and her attitude towards Elizabeth changed, she was even making E. give precedence to their cousin, Lady Margaret Douglas, at court and quietly discussing removing E. from the succession. Elizabeth was also, as you say, not closely related to any of the great European families and therefore didn't have the same resources as Mary to protect herself. I think from Mary's point of view, she would have been considered a traitor, but it's easy to see how she got to the point of (perhaps) countenancing a regime change. They certainly had a very dysfunctional sibling relationship.
@@HistoryCalling indeed! It’s always fascinating pondering what their relationship may have been had Henry perhaps, waited until Catherine died to wed again, or set her aside in a much less disgraceful manner like many other kings before him. Annulling the Aragon match in my opinion, also didn’t require bastardising Mary. 400 years earlier when Louis VII of France divorced Eleanor of Aquitaine who also failed to produce a male heir, their daughters together remained legitimate. However, that was in France, a kingdom in which princesses and their descendants are excluded from rule, while the Tudor claim to England is founded on female rights. I think this factor, and Mary’s treatment under the Sheltons, made any closeness between the sisters fragile at best.
Agreed. It was totally unnecessary to make Mary illegitimate or to treat her as badly as he did. She'd been born 'in good faith', meaning she could still be considered legitimate. Henry was just a horrible person in my opinion, at least by that point in his life. I'm not surprised the two sisters couldn't maintain a close bond after everything Mary had endured at Anne and the Boleyns' hands and that's before we get to the massive age gap and the religious differences.
I'm confused, don't you only have godparents if you are Catholic?
@@undiamas2069 I don't believe so. I was raised seventh-day adventist and currently have a godmother who I'm still close to, even though I currently identify as a non-Christian. I think godparents (then as now) function more like traditional kinship bonds between well-meaning families, than a recreation of any religious ethos
I’m sure you get this all the time, but I just love your voice! It’s perfect for narration! And I fully agree with what another commenter said a year ago: I don’t think Elizabeth was a traitor. I also don’t think Mary was evil. We need to remember that Mary’s mother, Catalina (Catherine) was the daughter of The Catholic Kings, Fernando and Isabelle (Spanish Inquisition).
Both Elizabeth and Mary did what they had to do and both stayed true to who they were right up til the very end. Neither were to be bossed around or told what to think.
It does seem that Elizabeth was more clever and politically savvy (never putting things in writing, craftily avoiding answering incriminating questions), but they both stood strong in a time when women, especially royal women were seen as pawns on a chess board. I think we can learn much from both of them!
Ooo. I haven't gotten past the intro yet, but there's at least one channel out there that demonstrates old letter locking techniques, and people in the comments couldn't figure out why this would be necessary, because if it was read, would it still be sent? There were others who gave reasons, but I never heard or thought about forging additions. Now THAT is an excellent reason to tamper-proof letters!
I’m really enjoying your Tudor videos - concise and full of good, accurate information. Your voice is very pleasant and easy to listen to. Thank you for your hard work.
Elizabeth was not the instigator and I can’t call her traitorous. However, she would have had to go along with it if they had succeeded. Thankfully she got there on her own by being patient and waiting it out. If she hadn’t she could have been used as a pawn and controlled by those who put her ton the throne.
Hi Linda, thanks for watching and commenting. I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. Yes, Elizabeth certainly did have the qualities of caution and patience and they served her well.
That's an interesting observation that Elizabeth "would have had to go along with" a successful coup against Mary. Knowing what we do about Elizabeth's attitudes and behavior toward Mary Queen of Scots further down the road, no doubt she would have been terrified to have come to the throne in that way, as it would have set a precedent and made it much more likely that she could be toppled from her high place and, of course, murdered. So, she was fortunate that her ascent was lawful in exactly the manner prescribed by the law (third Act of Succession of 1543/4) and her father's will.
The scene in Elizabeth (the Cate Blancett film) between her & Mary (played superbly by Kathy Burke) was extremely moving. The young Elizabeth pleading to Mary for her life & you see the dying Mary torn by something like sisterly love and what she saw as her duty to the Catholic realm. The rest of the film might have taken too many liberties with history but I imagine if there was a conversation between the two if would have gone something like that.
Thank you for your informative videos. I especially appreciate your use of original sources. You are a true historian!
My pleasure and thank you :-)
I learn something new from each of your videos. Great content, spoken with an extremely pleasant voice. Thank you!
I have traced my family tree on my mom's side back to Thomas Wyatt of the Wyatt Rebellion. His father also called Thomas Wyatt was said to be in love with Anne Boleyn. This is so interesting. I also traced my husbands family tree back to Sir John Cheke (Cheek) who was also kept in the tower of London by Queen Mary, I believe and also had met Anne Boleyn. I love your channel and have been binge watching ever since I subscribed.
I believe it is possible she was aware of the 1st plot, but stayed out as completely as possible. The event with Jane Gray would have given her caution. The 2nd, she may not have been so innocent. She may have felt she was on stronger footing, or (more likely) she may have felt that she would be condemned anyway, so why not try to help the success of it. I think Mary knew, but after two embarrassing false pregnancies, She would not be embarrassed again by trying to condemn her sister, yet again. You really can't put words and thoughts into long dead people, but this seems to scream out over time.
Elizabeth wasn't a traitor but a strong woman in a hard time and the first real fair Queen that England had in its history ;)
Unrelated but I love your accent and your voice. It’s very relaxing without being boring if that makes sense :)
Can't wait for next Friday!! You always have the best content of things I have never seen before... Such as the letters and the pictures! I enjoy it so very much!! Thank you.
Wow, thank you! I'm really glad you like the primary sources :-)
i think that elizabeth probably knew that her servants were a part of the plot but she didn't participate/support the plot herself
loving the tudor kick!! cant wait for the next part:)
Thank you. I just recorded the audio for it today :-)
@@HistoryCalling yayyy!!
i love your channel and your voice!! so relaxing!
Thank you so much! :-)
Yes. She is fortunate that her sister was merciful. Others had been executed for far less in their father's reign.
Love these videos. Love your voice! Great storyteller! It's midnight here but I'm determined to get through the Elizabeth videos. I said I'd binge in one day all your videos, but there's so much info, my mind needs breaks. :) hehe
Just subscribed. Your voice is calming and your content clear and informative. I love history and this is great 😍😊 thank you for putting so much time and effort into this educational material for us to consume
Thank you so much and welcome to the channel :-)
QE1 was a great Queen. She stabilized England and grew it into United Kingdom today. Stopped all the wars for attaining power. She moved forward from a dark time.
Elizabeth was too smart to support a rebellion. Had a rebellion been successful would she have taken advantage. No unless Mary was killed then she'd be the rightful queen anyways.
I think she just sat back and let it all play out.
You are good at this..!! Thank you for all the extra info..and putting many pieces together for me...this helps!!
Enjoyed as usual! Thank you very much!
Elizabeth did not give an answer, she was cunning, she got rid of all his accusations, both with Seymour and with the rebellion, she definitely had a gift with words. However it cannot be denied that all the clues led to her, suspect.
I've been watching your content for HOURS 😂 it's SO good!!
Thank you :-)
Elizabeth seems to know along with her sister Mary and I think they were both closest to queen katherine ( truly a very smart gal) .
I believe Elizabeth-I learned well from her father, mother and sister. She had incredible ‘street savvy,’ which saw her through it all. 👍🏼🏵
Elizabeth probably knew well before the official notification and had planned out what to say.
I love your videos!!! Very informative. Thank you. Just subbed
Thank you and welcome to the channel :-)
Id love to see a video about Mary Queen of Scots from you! 🖤
I literally started researching one on her a few days ago. :-) It'll still be a few weeks away though.
@@HistoryCalling thats all good! What drew me to her and what i know from her i watched in the tv show Reign. I know its not all factually correct but they did a pretty good job! Defos recommend a watch! 🖤 Frary for life 😂
Did Elizabeth have anyone to advise her at her young age to wend her way through all of these situations?
Just her servants I think, though she loved some of them like family.
Not quite what you’ve asked - but she was given the best tutors and an excellent Classical education, proving herself a worthy student in Latin, history, modern languages, and political philosophy. She would have read the practical advice of Cicero and Roman history with its battles and plot twists. She was given an education for a future ruler, though these sources may not have helped her to know how to handle Seymour.
Ann of Cleves was supposed to be a good friend to her. Ann's letter to Henry about their annulment was a masterpiece of diplomacy.
Mary I actually
@@Alejojojo6 Not in Mary's later years.
Very good documentary 😊 The sound is a bit off, maybe a new microphone needed.
The Wyatt rebellion caused the execution of Lady Jane Grey. Mary I pardoned Jane for ascending the throne, but the Wyatt rebellion was considered a second act of treason. Elizabeth I then was imprisoned. I think Elizabeth was probably aware of Wyatt's plans, but was not involved in it; Elizabeth denied having any knowledge of it. Isn't it ironic the King of Spain helped save Elizabeth, and years later became bitter enemies.
The king of Spain only really saved her to prevent the French from gaining power, and because he intended to marry Elizabeth after Mary died. I bet he regretted saving her when she refused to marry him lol
They certainly lived in ‘interesting’ times did they not? If you had any royal blood at all, you’d better take good care of your head! Thank you. 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🙏
Exactly. Being remotely royal was incredibly dangerous. Poor Lady Jane Grey never even did anything wrong. She was just a pawn of her family and it still cost her her life. Henry VIII killed some of his mother's family too who I didn't have space to mention in his videos. It was a bloodbath at times.
In some ways, I would suspect her just a bit. Elizabeth sometimes is never too clear in her statements and allowed some wiggle room. But there’s no official and hard proof. She was just living more or less and people were doing things for her. And in her name. I am in the middle.
😎 First! Loving all things Tudor! 💌❤️💕
Yes, you are :-) I love them too! :-)
I love these videos. But I'm 15 minutes in and I've had 5 ads already. Seriously egregious! WTH is up with that? I understand ads bring revenue, but an ad every 3 minutes is a bit much.
Thank you for watching and for your feedback. It's a bit of a long answer, but essentially TH-cam suggests how many ads to place based on the length of the video and I adjust the timings so that they appear at more natural breaks in my speaking. While I would like to have fewer, I think that's a luxury that larger channels have. A small channel like this makes very little money as it is, yet takes at least 20 hours per video to keep going and more for these longer videos that go above 15 minutes. I'd be reluctant to cut into the pittance I'm getting any further. I should also say that I have no control over the type of ad you see and how many of them you see. Not everyone sees all the ads placed and some people just get the text ads across the bottom the screen, rather than the video ads that stop my video playing. I know it can be a little annoying, but I hope this gives you a bit more of an insight into the 'behind the scenes' of the channel at least, so that you can understand where I'm coming from. I appreciate you watching the videos and supporting the channel.
Elizabeth, like many of her predecessors, was a survivor. Ultimately, I believe that she became one of our greatest Monarchs.
😮yes she survived her father's rampage. And when king Henry itist have been a relief felt by the court unit it must have been a bittersweet time for her
I do believe Elizabeth was a traitor at heart but was only interested in the big picture and not the minutiae or operations of either rebellion. Therefore when asked, she wasn't lying that she didn't know (well, perhaps a bit). Like any good card player, she knew when to bluff and say or write the right words.
No absolutely not. She was too smart for that.
Also I’m an American 🇺🇸, every time you say “tower”I thought you were saying “tar” and I kept thinking 💭 🧐 I’m going to have to look up this place I’ve never heard of it.
It took me part one and 6 minutes to figure it out.😁
I’m bingeing you and I subscribed. So I think you’re charming.
Hi Roo. Yes, I've had a few comments on my accent, though in your case I don't mind it as it's clear you're not trolling and just genuinely needed a few minutes to adjust to it. I do appreciate that it's not an accent heard on TV and in movies very often, so an international audience won't have been exposed to it as much as they have to say, an English accent of the Kate Winslet or Kate Middleton variety. Thanks for watching and subscribing. :-)
She was a survivor and definitely the smartest of all of them
I'm a Finn and I was listening to her videos while doing laundry and always stopped midway at "tar" ans felt really confused about what that mysterious place might be and it took me way too long to realize 🤦♀️ love history and love this content, her voice is so calming. I usually listen to these at night time before I go to sleep, learning and relaxing at the same time 😊
@@HistoryCallingI personally (as someone from the north west) think you’re accent is extremely nice to listen to and very elegant, love your videos!
More great information
Not to mention, they would all have to give back all the stolen church property. Henry left the kingdom deeply in debt. Edward did try to fix this. It just was impossible because the monastery system had been the social welfare system. That gave rise to the later poverty of Oliver Twist in the Victorian era.
Mos def we could use a Lady Jane Grey video. Thanks.
Hi hope you're ok this week. Have you watched the new Anne Boleyn series? I haven't
I'm well thanks. I have indeed. It played quite fast and loose with the historical record though, which always grates with me (and not just the casting I hasten to add, though I know that's what everyone's talking about). In particular Anne and Jane's make-out session in the gardens got an eye-roll from me and the costumes needed a lot of work. Anne wasn't really dressed any better than her ladies in waiting, none of the hoods had veils and literally no one had an English gable hood. One thing I'll say about The Tudors is that while no one really looked Tudoresque, they certainly did look royal. Natalie Dormer had a wardrobe to die for (no pun intended!). Still, it was Channel 5, so I assume they were on a tight budget and that that helps to explain the costumes. The locations weren't really grand enough either, but again, I'm prepared to make allowances for budgets and for potential filming restrictions due to the pandemic. Hope you're keeping well too.
@@HistoryCalling to meet Natalie Dormer WAS Anne Boleyn. I'm glad I haven't watched it!
Thank you.
It’s not paranoia if they’re really out to get you🥺
Very true!
I don't think Elizabeth was much involved in these plots because of her obvious intelligence. If she had been the one in charge, she either would have prevented them or made them a huge success. She would have known better than any that he who would strike at a King--or Queen--had better kill him.
So Mary had twice a phantom pregnancy ? Why did Mary die so young? And her husband seems to have been very unhealthy. Your explanation of why Philip favored Elizabeth in the end is probably correct. I like it anyway.
I think Elizabeth was only daughter left of king Henry that saved her life, for only decedent of King Henry would be Monarch.
I don't think Elizabeth is a traitor, but I do think people tried to use Elizabeth to remove Mary 1
Do you think in your opinion Elizabeth the 1 won Mary queen of Scots and she won both battle and war at the end or do you think Mary queen of Scots won the war what do you think in your opinion thanks
Oh I think Elizabeth won out in the end. Mary spent 19 years as her prisoner after all, before being executed by her. Their relationship will be covered more in the next couple of videos.
Absolutely Mary was a queen in name only Elizabeth ruled
She was a survivor
Definitely. She reminds me of her grandfather, Henry VII in that respect :-)
@@HistoryCalling Her great grandmother to be exact. Margaret Beaufort was a brilliant politician who was responsible for getting her son on the throne.
Yes.
Haha, a very succinct answer :-)
Yes, she was a traitor.
That's why she was so afraid of being assassinated, people disobeying any of her rules, etc.
And that's why she was so harsh on anyone who did.
She was terrified of the same thing being done to her, that she had done to Mary.
Like they always say...." It takes one to know one"
There's no way she didn't know what was going on, but was very clever and wily, and knew how to protect herself and implicate others.
If they hadn't lied for her in order to keep her safe, she would have been executed like any other traitor.
As someone above commented, it's not paranoia if they're really out to get you.
I KNOW THIS IS SILLY, BUT I LOVE YOUR VOICE, U SHOULD READ TO THE BLIND!!!
Haha, thank you. I mean if someone puts TH-cam on for them, they can always listen to the videos at least.
THAT IS WHY I CAP, SO I CAN SEE WHAT I WRITE ✍️
❤❤
Elizabeth certainly must have been involved in the rebellions - ironic that her life was almost certainly saved by Filipe 2nd of Spain.
And after Mary died he proposed to Elizabeth.
oh but she was clever......we'll never know, just as she intended
I don't understand how anyone can consider her a traitor.
Ah, but if you were Mary I you might think differently. All a matter of perspective :-)
@@HistoryCalling I was not considering the perspective of Mary I. I was considering the matter from a historical perspective. Otherwise it gets too confusing. Everyone can call anyone a traitor.
I highly doubt in her guilt. She knew, Mary will not last long and she didn't want to marry - so why plotting with her "husband-to-be"?
It was the worst of times.....it was the best of times....
Strange, french (Catholic) supporting overthrowing catholic queen over protestant queen in waiting.
Perhaps he was concerned about Philip II's continuing influence on England as king, and wished to remove Spain and its influence from the country. His son the Dauphin was married to Mary Queen of Scots, and perhaps he didn't fancy Philip or Philip's potential son on his son's doorstep.
France and Spain were bitter rivals at the time, and for them, a Spanish Catholic on the throne was worse than an English Protestant, especially since Elizabeth had at least on paper converted to Catholicism
She was not a traitor, she better Queen than her sister
Mary should have married Elizabeth off to a Hapsburg archduke
Easier said than done.
Elizabeth was a s wise as her tutor my ancestor Kate Parr. I doubt she took any active part in the revolt but on saying thus must beg that she knew well all that was proposed and waited on the lines . Her actions with Thomas husband to Kate her temptation without doubt .How much she made it obvious to him she wanted him we cant ever say .Then Kate had it that she did.
Elizabeth was not a traitor
If she were innocent she would not have ended at the tower for 9 months
Mary was merciful to spare her and keep her in the succession
How guilty she was it’s not easy to determine in fact that is why she survived the ordeal
I think that she saw problems and she tried to keep away in the hope to be spared or to prevail
I don’t think her presence at the tower was an indication of guilt. She was in the tower because that showed anyone who was attempting rebellion in her name that she was unavailable, bereft of power, and it was hopeless to continue. Mary wasn’t merciful with Lady Jane Grey even though she was innocent of plotting against her. Maybe Mary felt guilt over Jane’s death and refrained from killing Elizabeth because of that and the fact that she had not been able to bear an heir herself and wasn’t willing to kill off everyone in the succession until that happened. If she had birthed an heir I have no doubt she would have executed Elizabeth. Not everyone who went to the tower was guilty or deserved to be there, but was there at the pleasure of whatever monarch was in power.
Merely being kept in the Tower was no indication of actual guilt. Plenty of people ended up there having done nothing but be merely suspected of a crime, or merely because they displeased the monarch.
No she had to survive, they had hard lives everything they did was watched by people who were not always honest and had their own agenders, it was a dangerous time to live in 🙁
Queen Elizabeth l, The Virgin Queen, born Virgo during the year of The Snake. The Skillful, beguiling ways of her God Given Snakey nature saved her life. Queen Elizabeth lst could never be called a traitor since Protestantism was the English truth, since from her father's break from Rome and during The Reign of her brother. Catholic Mary stepped in like a thief and so the good spirit prevented her heirs.
Yes, I think she was part of the plot against Mary. If so, then she was a traitor.
Elizabeth was a Roman Catholic. She was baptized into the Roman Church, anointed queen and received the various Catholic Rites that were required at her Coronation and attended her Coronation Mass and received Catholic Holy Communion at that Mass and many other Masses prior to her Coronation and continued to until there was a definite Protestant split of the Church in England and the Pope issued her Excommunication!
Elizabeth was not a Roman catholic. She was careful at the start of her reign to start no religious problems, but instances such as when she told some monks to "do away with the candles. We see well enough" to stop a Catholic practice indicated her preference.
Please stop quoting David Starkey and oaf a pompous back street kid who may not be as clued up as he proclaims.
David Starkey is magnificent. I wish he was my history professor in college.
Can't you pronounce "Tower?"
@SoaringAquosStallantian999 - Shame them until they say it correctly. 😠
She is correctly pronouncing it. I’m gonna make a guess and say you’re American
@@emilybarclay8831 Not all of us Americans are rude bumpkins, you know.