Do you think Elizabeth was right to execute Mary, or should she have continued to hold her in confinement and do you think Mary was the author of her own misfortunes? Let me know below and don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
Elizabeth was right because Mary plotted to kill Elizabeth but Mary Queen of Scots was mainuplated . This is just like Mary Queen of England who put her step sister in prison . Elizabeth is following her own step sister footsteps. But she was just trying to protect her throne just like Mary Queen of England did. But Mary Queen of Scots never was let free but beheaded instead. Just like Anne Boleyn/Katherine Howard/ Lady Jane Grey You have a wonderful day /night /afternoon after your 😃😃😃😃❤❤❤💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💜💓💓💓💓💓🌹🌹🌹🌹💛💛💛👑👑👑
@@HistoryCalling Yep but she needed a heir and Mary couldn't get pregnant by her husband so . It was last result for Elizabeth to be heir so . Thank you for replying
@@HistoryCalling It my pleasure to comment on these beautiful videos.
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In the realm of "what if´s", if Mary had focused on Scotland and allied herself with Elizabeth, the British isles would of had a peace and prosperity that would of been magnificent to behold. Mary could of stayed catholic and Elizabeth protestant, as long as they were united as "sister-queens", nor Spain or France would of been able to intervene. But Mary was as weak as Elizabeth was strong, and Mary made too many mistakes, being one of her first escaping from Scotland...into England. Why not France or any other catholic country? That act alone shows how politically blind Mary was. After her involvement in so many conspiracies against Elizabeth, Mary had to go.
Regarding Mary going to England, I'm not sure she had much of a choice there. In order to get to France, she would have had to go through either Scotland or England to reach an eastern port and Scotland was impossible for obvious reasons. I think England was just the best of a limited number of poor options for her. Overall though, yes, I agree that she made a number of poor decisions which ultimately led her to the block. Many thanks for watching and commenting.
Omg can we please get an alt-historical novel about this?!?!? Anyone willing to write I would LOVE to see an alt-history where Mary focuses on Scotland and she and Elizabeth become sister-queens that remain unmarried and take on the newly united Scotland and England’s enemies together, with their religious differences perhaps as the main driver of antagonism between the two, or something else entirely, I’m open 😊
It must have occured to James at this point that he would be King of England, if he could just put himself on cruise control and not bother Elizabeth. So he did a "Mary who" about the mother he didn't even remember.
I wonder if some of Elizabeth's turmoil over whether or not to excecute Mary was due to Anne Boleyn's death. Although she definitely excecuted her fair share of people, I Imagine sending a queen to her death felt a little too close to home (even though, in my opinion, Mary was given so many chances to live, albeit in confinement). Plus back then they did believe kings and queens were chosen by God so...that couldn't have helped. Excellent video, can't wait to watch more!
Catherine Howard’s execution, too. Not to mention Jane Grey and the looming threat Mary held over her head. The idea of executing Mary might well have been fear of the outcome, but I genuinely feel it retraumatised her, reminding her of her mother, Catherine, Jane and what could easily have happened to Elizabeth herself.
I find the pettiness of the French hilarious. "Quoi? Mary is still imprisoned? How terrible, we must aid her and -" "... She plotted with the Spanish instead of us? She can rot in an English jail then!"
Elizabeth knew that if she let Mary go abroad, she would certainly try to obtain armed help from Spain and France. So she thought, it was best to do nothing at all and kept her for the next nineteen years. One day, government's agent handed the letter, in which Mary apparently gave her consent to a plot to invade England and kill Elizabeth.That was enough. For years William Cecil, her minister had been begging the queen to put an end to this constant danger, he demanded that she should sign Mary's death warrant.She unwillingly yielded her consent to their demand. Yes,Mary was the author of her own misfortunes because she never stopped conspiring against Elizabeth and so she'll only have herself to blame. Thanks for another excellent video presentation.
I always had a bit of sympathy for Mary, but if any British figure ever earned the title “greatest p*sstaker”, it was her. Elizabeth categorically did not want to execute Mary because she knew the fallout. Yet Mary constantly made mistakes and stumbled from disaster to disaster, losing her crown and ultimately her head through her own, for lack of a better word, stupidity. Sure she was frustrated but by the time she was in England she should really have been content enough to with the knowledge her son would succeed. Honestly, James’s refusal to help her or share the crown with his disgraced mother really, really should have been the moment reality sank in. An interesting figure, but Mary was wholeheartedly not suited to be a ruler.
Your videos are so well done. It is clear you are a professional because you make the effort to give photo attributions. I know it takes extra time (since I do this as well in my videos) but it gives a clear indication that we can trust your content. Not to mention the fact, that your detail is amazing and your voice is so easy to listen to. I enjoy all of your videos...thanks so much for your hard work!
Thank you, that's so kind of you to say and it's lovely to know that someone out there appreciates the photo credits, as I do wonder sometimes if I'm being a bit over zealous in worrying about giving credits for the public domain stuff! I had a quick look at your channel and love the look of your content (and thumbnail images) too. Keep it up :-)
The fact that Mary didn't even renounce her claim to the English throne on her way back from France basically sets the tone for her naivity and foolish ambition. It's safe to say the rest of her life filled in the blanks.
I don't think she was actually naive or foolish. She was a Catholic woman attempting to rule an Calvinist Scotland with misogynist inclinations, whose nobles, unlike those in England, whose power had been substantially diminished by the War of the Roses, and the subsequent activities of Henry VII and Henry VIII, were like petty warring kings. She was in a difficult position. Her marriage to Darnley was probably foolish, although it gave her the protection of a husband and united their claims to the English throne. Had he been a steadier and more intelligent partner, things might have gone better. And her third "husband" kidnaped and raped her in order to force her to marry him. She really never had much control over what happened to her after she returned to Scotland. To have renounced her claim to the English throne was probably not a point of ambition so much as a part of her political arsenal. Perhaps she ought to have renounced it in favor of her young son, who in the end achieved it peacefully. But whether she renounced it or not, invasions and interventions in her name would still have been made on her behalf even if not with her consent. Dead or alive she was always going to be the focus of a lot of anti-Elizabeth, anti-English activity whether she wished to be or not. That she made desperate attempts to achieve her freedom after nearly 20 years of imprisonment is perhaps not surprising.
would loooove to see a ‘Hollywood vs history’ video on this compared to the 2018 film Mary Queen of Scots with Margot Robbie and Saoirse Ronan (the only thing I know in comparison is the film made Mary and Elizabeth meet, which didn’t really happen but would love to see what other details they got right and wrong!)
that movie was super biased towards Mary, it made me laugh how they made Elizabeth ugly and ridiculous in the end but Mary stayed lookin like a 20 year old woman eventhough she was over 40 at the time of her death and didnt have any hair anymore, she wore a wig , her real hair were thin and grey , she also looked nothing like her young self at the time of her death :D it was soo funny that movie didnt show that fact :D and how Elizabeth tore her wig off in front of Mary and humiliated herself...it would have never happened, it was considered disgraceful and humiliating if you see a monarch without her fabulous clothes, wig and make up , so it would have NEVER happened, also movie didnt show enough in my opinion that Mary was at fault as well for what happened to her, she made countless stupid decisions and these mistakes got her killed in the end , Elizabeth didnt want to execute her but Mary didnt give her another choice either if you think about it...the moment she committed high treason against her she had to know that she will die
What another fab upload. I did have a little sympathy for Mary but I can't help but think that she took the piss. How many opportunities was she given by Elizabeth yet she still continues to to conspire against her. I do think that Elizabeth had very little choice in signing the execution papers and I believe she wanted to be seen in a positive light by her public and other heads of state so came up with the excuse of the execution carried out against her wishes. I do think Mary had a sense of entitlement to the English throne although I'm tempted to think this was down to a lot of people convincing her that this was the case (these people looking out for themselves and not for Mary).
Totally agree, Susan - Mary strikes me as perhaps a well-intentioned woman, but far too stupid to be a ruler or leader. She certainly seemed to love being Queen and all the power and privilege and self-claimed legal exemption from endless plotting that being Queen provided her, but she didn‘t seem to care too much about the actual people of Scotland, and only went back there as a last resort because she was kicked out of France. I‘ve never had any sympathy for her and she seemed like a childish idiot.
I have a feeling that being betrothed to a future king in her infancy and becoming Queen of France as well as being Queen of Scotland in her own right gave her an excess of her own feeling of importance, well above Elizabeth who was in her mind an illegitemate child anyway and Queen only because everyone else died off without an heir.
I swing between pity for Mary and frustration at the choices she made. I think she would have had Elizabeth killed, given the opportunity and I can't help but wonder if it would have needled her conscience as much as it did Elizabeth's. I agree that they were very difficult times to have to live in and navigate. You couldn't really lock someone up for life (at least not someone as high profile as Mary) and assume that that would be the end of it. Mary was always a willing magnet for conspiracies to oust Elizabeth and I agree with you that she left her cousin with few choices in the end.
@@HistoryCalling that’s the part no one seems to understand! If given a chance Mary would have had Elizabeth killed the first chance she got! I’m not sorry for her! Elizabeth clearly did not want to do it. Think of it her own mother and step mother were put to death!
I agree with what you were saying in the end how Elizabeth probably did want Mary executed and was probably playing it up a little to remove some anger and blame from herself and shove it onto others. I find it interesting how she was so concerned about killing another monarch, but never insisted that a sword or something to be used to limit suffering and have a more dignified death... Even her father when he executed her mother, Anne Boleyn, got an expert swordsman from France to do the deed with an exceptionally sharp blade, none of this axe stuff with the double hit and sawing... Beheading was seen as much more dignified and merciful than hanging though. And yet again, Mary was planning on getting Elizabeth assassinated and there's no mercy in that. Perhaps she didnt care, maybe thought Mary needed a taste of her own medicine? Who knows.
I suppose if she'd gone to the trouble of ordering over a French swordsman (and what guy would want that job, as Mary was Queen Dowager of France), the time delay that would have caused would have left Elizabeth unable to pretend that she didn't know what was going to happen. I wonder myself if Mary's plans had worked, what fate she would have had in store for Elizabeth if she'd had her in her power ...
It's been AMAZING to listen to you and learn how easy and often it was that ROYALTY was killed.(murdered) it would have been easier to be a commoner citizen.
Oh definitely. The entire Tudor/Stuart family history would put any Greek tragedy to shame I think. They spent half their time killing each other. I'm sure it was horrible not being able to trust your own flesh and blood.
Sounds like you're implying that it's a given that these demonstrably intelligent and powerful women (QUEENS, quite literally) were somehow psychologically, emotionally, and/or intellectually inferior to these men who "so cruelly manipulated" them. As if they had no agency of their own and were only capable of reacting to the input of males. Kind of insulting to their legacy and overall dignity, no? If they somehow came back to life today and you told them their decisions as the Queen of England and the Queen of France and Scotland were only the result of male manipulation...how do you think that would go?
@@KJones-qs7ju to the block! Off with her head 😂. I agree, it’s very patronizing to think these women to be mentally handicapped to the more sophisticated and intelligent chess playing men around them.
I think if Mary had kept quiet while under house arrest (in multiple lush houses!) she could have lived out the rest of her life in peace. But she didn’t. Elizabeth had no choice and she did overlook Mary’s role in uprisings to save Mary’s skin but she wouldn’t relent. In actuality, I don’t understand how Mary saw it ending for herself
I do think that Mary (and the pope and Elizabeth's own councilors ) had put Elizabeth in an extremely difficult situation, which seemed to admit of only one solution: Mary's death. I can see why Elizabeth was angry; she had been backed into a corner. She eventually did what, in her experience, had to be done, but she went kicking and screaming. Poor Davison, he must have been terrified. It's odd there was nothing more accurate to charge Mary with than treason, which as the Scottish queen said, was impossible as she was not Elizabeth's subject. Force of habit, I guess.
I read that Mary and Elizabeth actually never met one another. When I hear this story I often wish that Elizabeth could have had met Mary, and that they could have found common ground, perhaps making it less likely that Mary would have continued to plot Elizabeth’s murder.
I have always been a big history buff. I must say I love your channel and plus the factual presentations are fantastic. Greeting from Ecorse,Michigan U.S.A
I think Elizabeth had every right to execute Mary. She waffled as long as possible in not killing not only a fellow monarch but also a cousin. Whilst Mary seemed to have no compunction nor conscious about killing Elizabeth using religion as a means and a way. Mary has proven over and over again a coniver from the moment she stepped foot in Scotland. Embroiled in so many plots including murder. Mary's life would have been forfeit if not for Elizabeth saving her from one plot to another and then over and over again from advisors recommendations. She had already proven dangerous in her own country, ambitious to a fault and kept stepping over the line. How many times do you bite the hand that feeds you before the other bites back. Mary totally betrays her benefactoress. Then plots to murder again, she was insane with ambition, religious zeal, and i think jealousy of Elizabeth and her Throne. She would have been bloody Mary the 2nd if she had taken it. No matter how many Elizabeth killed due to religion, i feel Elizabeth was tolerant coming into her reign until the Catholics kept plotting against her. The longer it went on the the less tolerant, stamping out uprising after uprising, with Mary fueling it in the background when is enough enough? Mary QOS sealed her own fate.
Yes, I think Elizabeth was remarkably patient with her despite being repeatedly provoked and that she was more concerned with Mary's life than Mary was with hers. Had Mary acquiesced to her situation in England, she probably could have continued to live in relative comfort (certainly a lot more comfort than most people in the world enjoyed) for many more years. The idea that the English would accept her as their Queen, en masse, was really a pipedream and has always indicated to me that she was quite out of touch with reality on that point.
@@HistoryCalling Remarkable patience for sure, as Elizabeth was known to have little patience and contrary to a fault. She was very astute, and I would say brilliant she always had the foresight on how to manipulate situations to her advantage, navigating thru many treacherous situations. If her sister could have found a way she would have killed Elizabeth, but E was much smarter than Mary and E's questioners. I also think your right, she had planned her response to spin the backlash for killing Mary QoS, anticipating almost every outcome except the Spanish. Another situation she handled brilliantly as well. Gloriana on horseback rallying her troops, how magnificent a sight that would have been. Kings have been known to battle, but a Queen??? Cant wait for your next episode!
Mary was a tall and lovely fool. She lived much longer than she might've. I've always wondered why , upon her escape across the channel , why she didn't go to France where she was a dowager Queen and had dower lands. Her mistakes are many , and her foe was formidable. She made 2 bad marriages of 3 and when she died had not even the love of her son.
France itself was ripped apart by religious strife at the time. I wonder how safe she would have been, and how she would have arranged to get there after losing at Langside. Would she have been a welcome guest in France--would her former brother-in-law have viewed the arrival of the former queen as an asset or a liability? I think the Darnley marriage was an unforced error on her part, but Bothwell more or less forced her to marry him. She was extremely vulnerable as a woman ruler; she was a Catholic queen in a Protestant country where the nobles were even more fractious than those in England. She did not have great judgment at times, but the task before her in Scotland was impossible. Her stubborn belief that she was the rightful queen of England certainly led her to behave less than sensibly in her imprisonment. That she lost connection with her son was tragic, and in large part due to forces beyond her control. Her reference to him in her last letter to the king of France is very poignant. Not a fool, perhaps, but she did on occasion fail to act in her own self interest.
As much as I adore both of these women, I think Elizabeth was right to execute Mary. The Babington plot was just the last one of a series of conspiracies on Mary`s part. Mary would have continued to conspire against her cousin as she could not hope for help from her son. She was pushed to the edge and had nothing to lose, except for her life, which made her so dangerous. She lost her crown, her son and her husbands (even though she might have been involved in her second husband´s murder). Elizabeth could not let her go anywhere else but Scotland since she would have been a powerful pawn in hands of the (catholic) European rulers. In my opinion Mary would have been better off if she either didn´t marry Darnley or didn´t flee to England. These two mistakes, especially the latter one sealed her fate. 2 queens, connected by blood, living in one realm is a little too crowded. Especially when both of them consider themselves the true heir to the throne. It is surprising to me that Elizabeth tried to avoid her execution for so long.
Yes, I think Elizabeth was really backed into a corner by Mary's behaviour as well. I can understand why Mary was frustrated and desperate, but she would have lived longer if she'd realised and accepted the futility of her position, rather than constantly provoking Elizabeth and her advisors. Like you, I think she made a great mistake in marrying Darnley, then allowing herself to be implicated in his murder, followed by another marriage to one of his supposed killers. She didn't have many options left when she fled to England, but you have to wonder what she thought would happen. Did she really think Elizabeth would put her back on her throne?! It just seems so naïve, especially given how clear she'd made it that she wanted E's crown too.
@@HistoryCalling Exactly! I could never can't wrap my head around this. Why, of all the options she had left, why did she choose to flee to England after provoking Elizabeth time and time again and again? It´s just downright stupid to assume Elizabeth would have helped her to get her crown back. I would never ask for help from someone I provoked and teased badly. I mean honestly... what was Mary thinking?
I think I'll probably do a video (or videos) on Mary at some point and dig into the details of her story more at that stage. I think England was a last resort, but she should have known that there would be no coming back from a decision like that. She was fortunate really that Elizabeth treated her as well as she did. I'm not sure that Mary ever thought through her decisions as much as she ought to have done. Elizabeth was certainly a more consummate politician and survivor.
@@HistoryCalling I am looking forward to your video :) 👍🏻 I know the relation between these two queens is quite complicated and we will most likely never know what they truly thought and felt about each other. But some decisions on Mary's side just make no sense to me whatsoever. I would be glad if someone could offer me some possible logical explanation to some of the mistakes she did.
Honestly I I think if you look at it from Elizabeth perspective she was a nuisance and had every good reason not to trust her I don’t get that Mary The martyr Elizabeth the cold-blooded killer kind a messed up more complicated than that that story is more interesting .
Thank you so much for these incredible videos. I have just found your channel and am determined to watch every singe one because your style is so interesting and easy to digest. Would you please consider doing a series about Catherine the Great? She is one of my favorite monarchs and there is a lot to discuss about her!
She's already on the list. :-) I even made a point of reading the biography I have of her and everything. I got the bug after I watched the show 'The Great' (not at all accurate, but a blast from start to finish).
@@HistoryCalling Hooray, I'm so glad to hear it!! I will be on the lookout on your channel. I haven't heard of "The Great" but have just looked it up and it looks very entertaining. The poster for it gives me Sofia Coppola's Marie Antoinette vibes. Interestingly enough there is a Russian show with the same title, but it has a much more serious tone. (I really enjoyed it but I'm not sure how easy it is to find a version with subs or dubs; if you can find it, though, I really recommend! It is called "Velikaya")
I could be misinformed about this, but I remember hearing that Mary was literally imprisoned following the murder of her second husband, and was assaulted and forced to marry her third, which caused the scandal that eventually led to her losing her throne. If true that would remove a lot of the culpability for her ending up in her reduced state, but she's entirely responsible for her actions once she's under Elizabeth's custodianship in England. However, going through your videos on Queen Mary Tudor and now this one on Mary Queen of Scots, I wonder just how much of a difference it made that Elizabeth never married. Being a queen regnant was clearly a new concept at this time, and marriage seems to have muddied the role of a reigning queen. It made it so men felt animosity and competition with one another, which destabilizes the nobility, and they thought marriage was a way to seize power from these women. I feel bad for Mary Queen of Scots because it seems at least one of her husbands wanted to marry her just to gain her power and rule. I could be wrong since I'm very poorly informed on this subject, but I think she was sort of made a pawn by these men around her, who saw her as a conduit to power. But Elizabeth, by never marrying, protected her full and unquestioned authority, if only during her lifetime- the tradeoff is that the succession must have been a point of anxiety. It's weird, in a way, Mary "won" in the end, because her son, who only existed because she married, took over the throne after Elizabeth. But Elizabeth is one of the greatest monarchs who ever lived, and reigned over an incredible period of English history. She has a great legacy still remembered today, but it's the descendants of Mary Stuart who sit on the throne. Which is the true success? Which is the true measure of successful monarchy? I favor Elizabeth, personally ;) anyway, I just love these videos. I love your thorough and faithful discussion of evidence and the articulate, sound arguments you make. I would love a mini series on Mary Queen of Scots, but regardless, please keep up the excellent work!
I can't remember where I read or heard this but someone put it this way, "Elizbeth finally did what her brother and sister had ultimately not dared to do; to execute her heir." To be fair, Elizabeth had to put up with Mary, Queen of Scotts for many years longer than Edward had to put up with Mary Tudor or that Mary Tudor had to put up with Elizabeth herself.
Although in her siblings's cases, the people they were considering getting rid of permanently were children of their father the king, and a king who was remembered fondly by his subjects. Much more dangerous to execute a child of your father the king than to execute the granddaughter of the king's sister (gone from England since she was an young adolescent), the queen of a foreign power, and a woman of the Catholic faith, who could be seen as a threat to the nation.
In my opinon Mary was the author of her own downfall, queen bess had no option but to execute Mary she was a threat, Mary made some bad decisions in her life sadly she paid a heavy price. Thank you well presented and narrated video.
As things were back in those days, Mary brought on her own troubles and eventually her own death. She had been a spoilt brat in France, and if she had cared anything about the Scottish people she would have shown this even when all was well in France. But she didn't care, not even after the death of her own mother. Mary showed little emotion one way or the other. Then when she went to Scotland, only because Catherine De Medici refused Mary to remain in France. She expected her people to adore her when they did not even know her. She expected them to cow tow to her commands and could not understand why they were so against her. She did nothing really to accept the ways of the Scottish people even calling them barbaric in their ways. Then with her laying claim to Elizabeth's crown even before leaving France and while in Scotland she expected Elizabeth to help her regain her throne. Mary lived in a dream world. She was selfish and down right snobbish in her manners and thoughts. She thought with her body not her mind so made all the wrong decisions and then expected all to be forgiven because of who she was. Live doesn't work that way even back in those days.
Nana, standing ovation! 🙌🏻 You put beautifully into words exactly my thoughts on Mary Stuart. I‘m glad we had Elizabeth showing that women can be competent and beloved rather than entitled and dumb. It also really irked me that Mary always wanted no consequences for her behaviour - even plotting to kill the Queen of England! - because she was Queen, don‘t you know.
Not a very fair summary, to me at any rate, of the life of a woman whose situation was far more complex than you suggest, and a woman of ability and experience which counted for little when she was tossed, an young unmarried woman of the Catholic faith, into the lion''s den of Scottish politics, run by Calvinist nobles who were essentially warring feudal petty kings. You give her credit for much more freedom of choice about her life in France, and her choices about her life afterward than I believe she had.
@@HistoryCalling Very complex. But such fascinating characters. From Henry XI and the original York to Elizabeth Woodville to Clarence's rebellion and Warwick to Richard III to Margaret de Beaufort. And everyone who's really read much about the time period has an opinion. :) Margaret of Anjou and Elizabeth Woodville and Margaret de Beaufort: heroines just protecting their families or villains or something in between? The original Richard of York/Edward IV and George, Duke of Clarence/Warwick and Richard III: were they justified in rebelling and were there other viable options?
I'm not gonna lie I do believe in Absolute Monarchy, and Elizabeth's hesitance to kill another anointed queen is reasonable for my logic, but at this point Mary had grown to such a threat to the peace of the realm where she just had to die.
I think that Elizabeth's reservations about killing Mary, were (somewhat) due to how Elizabeth's own Mother, Anne Boleyn was killed. Anne, herself being an anointed Queen, murdered by her husband. Elizabeth didn't want to be seen as being too much like Her father, Henry. Did Mary "deserve" death?? in the era She lived and Her constant plotting against Elizabeth, maybe She did. However, if the roles were reversed.. Elizabeth would of done the same, and more, as Mary did. They were both fiesty,, entitled Women, but I believe, Elizabeth was the more intelligent of the two. Their story is like a decades long chess game. Both played their hand, but ultimately, Mary lost the match
I absolutely love the chess game reference (not least because they were two queens, there are two queens in chess and they are the most powerful pieces on the board). Yes, I think Elizabeth must surely have considered her mother's fate during all of this as well.
she had to execute her. She obvs didn't want to do it. Mary had many chances, but obvs felt she had to keep trying to regain the throne. Maybe if you're a queen, you feel obliged. Eliz obvs didn't relish it....she wasn't cruel, I think. But all the time Mary was alive, she would be a focus for rebellion. I think Eliz bent over backwards.....but there is a limit. It is all just so sad, for both women.
Mary came to England for protection from Elizabeth. Is it possible, since she didn't get protection but years of imprisonment, that Mary grew to resent or even hate Elizabeth? After imprisonment for many years, no help, is it possible the resentment or hate, drove her mad? In madness, the desire to gain power in order to punish her cousin, not just fellow Queen, manifested in actively plotting Elizabeth's death? Just a thought? Great work on the Tudor series. Thank you!🌹🍃
She was quite right to put an end to Mary's life! Mary had shown ingratitude, time after time, towards Elizabeth who offered protection for her after Mary's own relations plotted not only her downfall, but sort her life, as well! Her life, Mary's, was the basis of continued plotting against not only Elizabeth, but the people of England, too! She had to go. I only fault Elizabeth for holding her captive for so long, which in itself, caused continued plots, from Spain and Rome, as well as disgruntled Catholics. Had Mary just kept her mouth shut and shown gratitude for at least being treated as a queen, though in exile, Elizabeth's heart might've softened and see that she had been made more comfortable...at least!
This was a sad part of both their reigns, as cousins and Queens. I feel for Mary she was Queen of Scotland at 6 days old, had a legitimate claim to English throne, was Queen of France, yet everything was taken away from her and she ended up a prisoner, even her son abandoned her, perhaps after all she endured, she was trying to get back what she had lost, even her execution was cruel. Elizabeth was a great Queen there's no disputing that but also a true Tudor and the best thing she did was to close the Tudor line with her great reign. In the end it was Mary's son that gained both thrones so she did check mate Elizabeth in the end. So much could've changed had Henry not married Anne Boleyn.
People treat her like an innocent victim as if she didn’t very much murder her husband (whether or not it was justified is another matter, she was clearly involved in the murder which was a crime that carried the death sentence at the time)
One would expect that Mary would not like being locked up... no matter how nicely. Mary was really adrift between Her son and Liz. so I think they negated much of her threat . .. but opportunists would probably often use her. She would have to rely on outside help as she had no Army.. I respect my Scottish Ancestors , but the truth is they rarely did well against England..largely because they couldn't get along enough to form a solid front against their southern enemy.... so... were they really as big a problem as we ( and the English of the time ) have thought? The French would have to cross the channel... a bigger feat than we now think. But I can also imagine Elizabeth's fears.. she lived a life of danger and would probably welcome some respite. So too I could see Elizabeth's fear of a precedence in executing a Monarch as it could be turned against her. I see no way to know if execution was the best option.. but if Mary lived, someone would want to involve her in one of their schemes. I hope you can do an episode on Cat.. Elizabeth's favorite Lady of the Bed Chamber ( I think that's her title). I think it would be very interesting. Thanks for another interesting video.
I feel that Mary gave Elizabeth little choice in the matter. She continued to agree to plots against Elizabeth knowing what she was doing was treason and the punishment would eventually have to be her death.
Like so many royals, Mary was raised disconnected from reality, convinced her royal prerogative cancelled out the desires of her people and council. To f it up further, in Britain she carried the interests of the Catholic church on her shoulders, at the time Scots discovered their taste for Calvinism and anti-Catholic prejudice solidified in England. Add to that youth, inexperience, and her entanglement to France: Her return to Scotland seems destined to fail. Through TH-cam history channels, I've glimpsed that she also failed to learn from her mistakes, and never realized her situational awareness sucked. She lacked empathy and her POV remained stubbornly locked behind her own eyes. Hence, events and human behavior consistently took her by surprise. She was wonderfully educated, yet not equipped for national leadership. Her story comes across as Shakespearean tragedy as a result.
I don't disagree, but it's also true that ruling Scotland at that time would have been difficult for anyone. Many regencies had not enhanced respect for the crown, and a ruler who was a Catholic, a woman, and (basically) French was going to have a very difficult time, no matter what her leadership skills.
@@edithengel2284 Absolutely agree. Scotland was always challenging because the nobility/chieftains competed with the crown for authority and opportunity. Hence, Scottish kings had to rule "with an iron fist." Mary was a cerebral woman convinced of her divine right, and never demonstrated an instinct for brutality. that the reformation and two treacherous husbands and...yikes!
As strong as Elizabeth was, it seems that her weakness was to try to keep everyone happy and not rock the boat or do anything that would cause displeasing repercussions. Her counsellors pushed her around too easily. She had the power to say “NO! I will not execute Mary!” If she’d really wanted to. Instead she signed the warrant against her best judgment to please her advisers and paid the price for it. In the end, I think Mary’s behaviour necessitated it but no one deserves their execution to be butchered in that manner. 😔
Elizabeth didn't sign Mary's death warrant because she was a people pleaser, or because her advisors pushed her around. She signed it because she knew it was a necessity to preserve her life and her kingdom. This didn't mean she liked the idea. I think her councillors would have been very startled to hear that they could get around her easily. What price (other than her personal emotional distress) did she pay--or was that what you are referring to?
I often wonder what can have possibly motivated these nobles to risk their lives, their honor, their fortunes and the fortunes of their descendants by committing treason? Why be so ambitious for a crown, when they already have lands, and riches aplenty? Especially considering that the moment they succeed, they'll become a target for murder themselves? Why was Elizabeth so determined to protect Protestantism if it meant that all of Europe was against the English and herself? Was she really such a believer then? Or was it because renouncing Protestantism would make her a bastard? Why was Mary so determined to overthrow her cousin, who had shown her every mercy, and comfort, and whose own son was next in line to succeed? Religious zeal???
Jane Grey was a teenager who was forced into queenship and whose first words after being overthrown were ‘can I go home now?’ Mary was an adult 44 year old woman who had murdered her own husband and fled her country and directly conspired to commit treason and repeatedly refused any attempt by Elizabeth to extend an olive branch to save her life
Were I in Elizabeth's position I'd have done the same. Mary's constant involvement in this or that while under Elizabeth's care, gave root to her decision. Instead of gratitude, she displayed disrespect and annoyance, continuously, while Elizabeth disregarded her council's advice, in order to preserve her life! Mary's life and continued existence were a cause of constant problems for Elizabeth and a worry for her subjects, esp the protestants! She became too much of a burden and the hope of angry catholics! She had to go! And the situation seemed to worsen as time went on. Logically, she had to go!
Hmm, I don't know enough about them at the moment to give an answer I think, but they're on my list to have their own videos in the future, so I'll maybe decide then.
I really wish you would remind us of her age when you tell us the dates of significant romantic relationship events. It's harder for me to understand the lay of the land when it's not brought up whether she's of child bearing age. Obviously I know she was the "virgin queen", but without knowing her age when these negotiations with Mary were occuring, or when she almost married the French guy, it's difficult to understand whether people at the time might be holding out hope of her producing an heir. Also, with so many women around her dying during childbirth, I can imagine that would have also had an impact on her motivation to find a suitable partner.
Yes Elizabeth was right to execute Mary but did it have to be so gruesome couldn't she have hired an expert swordsman like Henry did for her mother Ann Boleyn and do it in one slice.
Without a doubt,Mary brought all the troubles in her life on herself. Elizabeth was right to have finally executed her. The Pope bears some blame as well. Without an issued dispensation for anyone who might murder Elizabeth, she might have looked more kindly on her Catholic subjects.
Hi it's Alison. Hope you've had a good week. I started reading the White Ship by Earl Spencer this week. It's great and I told him so on Instagram and he replied to me. I was so pleased 😊
Elizabeth was the prime aggressor because in 1569 she unlawfully ( but expediently) imprisoned Mary . OK it was naive of Mary to expect help from Elizabeth and indeed Elizabeth had no moral reason to help her…however for Elizabeth the moral decision would have been to say to Mary ‘ you’ve lost your kingdom, not my problem ‘… let her depart for Europe. She did after all acknowledge at the Conclusion at the Conference of York there was no evidence against Mary being party to Darnley murder. Ok there were strong political expedient arguments for not allowing Mary to wander round Europe as a potential alternative to Elizabeth. But expediency doesn’t make it morally right . So Elizabeth imprisoned Mary ( albeit ‘ honourably )for almost 20 years . Is it all that unreasonable for Mary to attempt to escape from an illegal imprisonment. Now if she said to those who were willing to try to rescue her ‘ look thanks but once I’ve escaped I’ll be leading a quiet life abroad, ‘no one would have been interested ,so in a way ( and I admit it’s a bit morally grey) Mary’s only way to escape her illegal imprisonment was to align herself with those who wanted to kill her jailer. But I believe ultimately if Elizabeth hadn’t imprisoned Mary in the first place the Fotheringhay endgame would not have occurred.
Yes, Mary was foolish and conspired on behalf of her own downfall. The only wonder was how long it took Elizabeth to do what she was always going to do. I love your work. : )
I don't see how Elizabeth's and Mary's relationship would have been much different had they been men. The rulers of Scotland and England had been pitted against each other for years. The fact that both happened to have queens at this time added a few twists, but didn't change the basic pattern.
A quote; From one queen 👑 of another, given gods own atonement immortal, this queen 👑 is also mortal within death! Agent of God 🙏 and queen 👑, But a monarch must do what is right for her people! Spain was bold and definitely bent on invasion, force's beyond both monarchy, nature had other ideas for weather was a big part of history.🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
I have never understood why anyone who wanted Mary on the throne wrote to her. Why!! She can’t do anything, we know she will take the throne so why send her letters it’s pointless and risky just kill old Lizzy done. There was no need to talk to Mary
I concur! Folks usually think Elizabeth’s execution of Mary meant she won battle but Mary won the war as James I ascended to the English throne in 1603. However, I see this too as a victory for Elizabeth as this meant she was able to reign independent of a husband or heir who could rival her for power and left England in the hands of Tudor descendant without the Elizabeth’s procreation. In essence, the last Tudor Queen got everything she ostensively wanted in the end
She did. I think that's probably what makes her the most popular Tudor. She reigned on her own terms, but without descending into the total tyranny of her father and sister (and I think Edward VI was well on his way to joining them). Mary's story is unfortunately one of great early promise which then fell apart in the face of failure after failure, most notably her terrible taste in husbands (bar Francis).
@@johntshorter hmmm I not think that mary Queen of Scots won the war because she was a Catholic and James is a Protestant and he refused to see his mother and Elizabeth refused to marry or her kid could have ruled England in 1603 so I think Elizabeth won both battle and war she was strong and known as the greatest monarch so yeah I still feel like Elizabeth won both and if lady Jane grey was alive and never killed by Mary the 1 and if she was still alive in 1603 or her kids where then she would have been queen since she had better claim to the English throne then mary Queen of Scots and James the 1 so yeah I think James filled his mother dream and her descended took the throne but Elizabeth refused to marry so she still wins the fight was only between Elizabeth and Mary no one else and by this Elizabeth is the winner what do you think I would love to know your thoughts and opinion thanks so much for reading my comment and plz tell me your opinion and weather you agree or not thanks so much
Can we blame Elizabeth? Yes! Yes we can! Lol. Its not like she had to take her cousin prisoner in the first place. The real question is can we blame Mary for trying to escape and take back her throne?
I absolutely aree with you. Elizabeth was jealous of Mary from the start. You are right! Elizabeth did not have to imprison Mary. Of course Mary would have been plotting on Elizabeth who held her prisoner. Did Elizabeth really believe that Mary would cower in a corner and accept it? Elizabeth did not have the guts to take the responsibility on herself for Mary's execution. I dont think she was bothered by Mary's execution. I believe she was worried about how it would make her look to the rest of Europe. Optics. Mary plotted her way into the noose. But I have to admire her guts! IMO, she had more spine than Elizabeth. Yes. I am on team Mary. lol
I thought Elizabeth was religiously tolerant 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺this is a sad tale between these two women Why did she not get a royal execution. Using a sword notches block? She was royal after all 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
A sword was not necessarily a part of royal executions. In fact, other than Anne Boleyn, I don't know of any other English royal family member executed by sword. Elizabeth was, comparatively speaking, religiously tolerant, however the Pope's statement that she was not a rightful queen made her deeply suspicious of Catholic activities. Before that she did not press Catholics to do anything other than show up at the Anglican Church where it was not commanded that they take communion.
Elizabeth ruled with her head. Mary ruled with the heart attracted to bad boys is like saying: oh please wont you please ruin my life. Thats. Ok when you are a teenager and not a monarch. Clearly not fit to rule. Elizabeth on the other hand kept her alive as long as she could. I beleive she could have taken her out sooner. It is my understanding that Scotland did not like a woman especially a foreigner ruling them with john knox threatening a revolt against her at every turn. She would have met with the same fate in any given political situation for that time.
You are thinking of Mary Tudor who was indeed Elizabeth's half sister. Mary Stuart, Queen of Scotland, was Elizabeth's cousin, the granddaughter of her father's sister Margaret Tudor.
Yes she was right to execute Mary. Mary became more dangerous the longer she was held. 19 years in total. That length of imprisonment made Mary have no hope of freedom, and nothing to lose. The plots would have continued if she hadn't been executed.
Am I the only one having trouble recognising Elisabeth and Mary from portrait to portrait? The likeness of them seems to change with every painting! I am still not sure if I'd know either one if they stood up in Ye Olde Soupe.
Mary Tudor was the only true heir of Henry8. Elizabeth was actually illegitimate and shouldn't have been queen at all. Nor her brother Edward. Mary of Scots had far more claim to the throne since she was a legitimate niece of Henry8.
Although Mary Tudor and her sister Elizabeth were both declared illegitimate: Henry VIII's act of succession governed, and the two women were both legally able to succeed to the throne. I'm not sure on what grounds you've eliminated Edward; his parents were married after Catherine and Anne were both dead. He was the only one who was absolutely certain to be legitimate.
How is a niece a more legitimate heir than a daughter? Also, whatever your beliefs on Elizabeth’s legitimacy, Edward was definitely a legitimate heir to King Henry VIII. Though I will concede that he shouldn’t have been queen! Lol 😂😂😂
Do you think Elizabeth was right to execute Mary, or should she have continued to hold her in confinement and do you think Mary was the author of her own misfortunes? Let me know below and don't forget to SUBSCRIBE and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
Elizabeth was right because Mary plotted to kill Elizabeth but Mary Queen of Scots was mainuplated .
This is just like Mary Queen of England who put her step sister in prison . Elizabeth is following her own step sister footsteps.
But she was just trying to protect her throne just like Mary Queen of England did.
But Mary Queen of Scots never was let free but beheaded instead. Just like Anne Boleyn/Katherine Howard/ Lady Jane Grey
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Yes, I think Mary would have allowed Elizabeth to be killed had the opportunity arisen.
@@HistoryCalling Yep but she needed a heir and Mary couldn't get pregnant by her husband so .
It was last result for Elizabeth to be heir so .
Thank you for replying
You're welcome :-) Thank you for commenting and have a lovely day as well.
@@HistoryCalling It my pleasure to comment on these beautiful videos.
In the realm of "what if´s", if Mary had focused on Scotland and allied herself with Elizabeth, the British isles would of had a peace and prosperity that would of been magnificent to behold. Mary could of stayed catholic and Elizabeth protestant, as long as they were united as "sister-queens", nor Spain or France would of been able to intervene. But Mary was as weak as Elizabeth was strong, and Mary made too many mistakes, being one of her first escaping from Scotland...into England. Why not France or any other catholic country? That act alone shows how politically blind Mary was. After her involvement in so many conspiracies against Elizabeth, Mary had to go.
Regarding Mary going to England, I'm not sure she had much of a choice there. In order to get to France, she would have had to go through either Scotland or England to reach an eastern port and Scotland was impossible for obvious reasons. I think England was just the best of a limited number of poor options for her. Overall though, yes, I agree that she made a number of poor decisions which ultimately led her to the block. Many thanks for watching and commenting.
Mary did have to go. She clearly was not as bright as her Tudor cousin
Omg can we please get an alt-historical novel about this?!?!? Anyone willing to write
I would LOVE to see an alt-history where Mary focuses on Scotland and she and Elizabeth become sister-queens that remain unmarried and take on the newly united Scotland and England’s enemies together, with their religious differences perhaps as the main driver of antagonism between the two, or something else entirely, I’m open 😊
Sounds like Elizabeth gave Mary ample cushion to prevent an early demise. Can't say she didn't try. BTW love your videos.
She did. Imprisoning her wasn’t very kind, but Mary was also reckless and made foolish horrible decisions. She didn’t deserve her throne.
It must have occured to James at this point that he would be King of England, if he could just put himself on cruise control and not bother Elizabeth. So he did a "Mary who" about the mother he didn't even remember.
Yes, I think he was very focused on getting that throne.
I wonder if some of Elizabeth's turmoil over whether or not to excecute Mary was due to Anne Boleyn's death. Although she definitely excecuted her fair share of people, I Imagine sending a queen to her death felt a little too close to home (even though, in my opinion, Mary was given so many chances to live, albeit in confinement).
Plus back then they did believe kings and queens were chosen by God so...that couldn't have helped. Excellent video, can't wait to watch more!
Catherine Howard’s execution, too. Not to mention Jane Grey and the looming threat Mary held over her head. The idea of executing Mary might well have been fear of the outcome, but I genuinely feel it retraumatised her, reminding her of her mother, Catherine, Jane and what could easily have happened to Elizabeth herself.
I find the pettiness of the French hilarious.
"Quoi? Mary is still imprisoned? How terrible, we must aid her and -"
"... She plotted with the Spanish instead of us? She can rot in an English jail then!"
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Elizabeth knew that if she let Mary go abroad, she would certainly try to obtain armed help from Spain and France. So she thought, it was best to do nothing at all and kept her for the next nineteen years. One day, government's agent handed the letter, in which Mary apparently gave her consent to a plot to invade England and kill Elizabeth.That was enough. For years William Cecil, her minister had been begging the queen to put an end to this constant danger, he demanded that she should sign Mary's death warrant.She unwillingly yielded her consent to their demand.
Yes,Mary was the author of her own misfortunes because she never stopped conspiring against Elizabeth and so she'll only
have herself to blame. Thanks for another excellent video presentation.
I always had a bit of sympathy for Mary, but if any British figure ever earned the title “greatest p*sstaker”, it was her. Elizabeth categorically did not want to execute Mary because she knew the fallout. Yet Mary constantly made mistakes and stumbled from disaster to disaster, losing her crown and ultimately her head through her own, for lack of a better word, stupidity. Sure she was frustrated but by the time she was in England she should really have been content enough to with the knowledge her son would succeed. Honestly, James’s refusal to help her or share the crown with his disgraced mother really, really should have been the moment reality sank in. An interesting figure, but Mary was wholeheartedly not suited to be a ruler.
In that, she was one among many.
Your videos are so well done. It is clear you are a professional because you make the effort to give photo attributions. I know it takes extra time (since I do this as well in my videos) but it gives a clear indication that we can trust your content. Not to mention the fact, that your detail is amazing and your voice is so easy to listen to. I enjoy all of your videos...thanks so much for your hard work!
Thank you, that's so kind of you to say and it's lovely to know that someone out there appreciates the photo credits, as I do wonder sometimes if I'm being a bit over zealous in worrying about giving credits for the public domain stuff! I had a quick look at your channel and love the look of your content (and thumbnail images) too. Keep it up :-)
The fact that Mary didn't even renounce her claim to the English throne on her way back from France basically sets the tone for her naivity and foolish ambition. It's safe to say the rest of her life filled in the blanks.
I don't think she was actually naive or foolish. She was a Catholic woman attempting to rule an Calvinist Scotland with misogynist inclinations, whose nobles, unlike those in England, whose power had been substantially diminished by the War of the Roses, and the subsequent activities of Henry VII and Henry VIII, were like petty warring kings. She was in a difficult position. Her marriage to Darnley was probably foolish, although it gave her the protection of a husband and united their claims to the English throne. Had he been a steadier and more intelligent partner, things might have gone better. And her third "husband" kidnaped and raped her in order to force her to marry him. She really never had much control over what happened to her after she returned to Scotland.
To have renounced her claim to the English throne was probably not a point of ambition so much as a part of her political arsenal. Perhaps she ought to have renounced it in favor of her young son, who in the end achieved it peacefully. But whether she renounced it or not, invasions and interventions in her name would still have been made on her behalf even if not with her consent.
Dead or alive she was always going to be the focus of a lot of anti-Elizabeth, anti-English activity whether she wished to be or not. That she made desperate attempts to achieve her freedom after nearly 20 years of imprisonment is perhaps not surprising.
would loooove to see a ‘Hollywood vs history’ video on this compared to the 2018 film Mary Queen of Scots with Margot Robbie and Saoirse Ronan (the only thing I know in comparison is the film made Mary and Elizabeth meet, which didn’t really happen but would love to see what other details they got right and wrong!)
I was literally thinking about what a good idea that would be for a video last night! I think I'll do at at some stage in the not too distant future.
@@HistoryCalling please do! The 2018 Mary Queen of Scots is annoyed me so much I had to turn it off!
that movie was super biased towards Mary, it made me laugh how they made Elizabeth ugly and ridiculous in the end but Mary stayed lookin like a 20 year old woman eventhough she was over 40 at the time of her death and didnt have any hair anymore, she wore a wig , her real hair were thin and grey , she also looked nothing like her young self at the time of her death :D it was soo funny that movie didnt show that fact :D and how Elizabeth tore her wig off in front of Mary and humiliated herself...it would have never happened, it was considered disgraceful and humiliating if you see a monarch without her fabulous clothes, wig and make up , so it would have NEVER happened, also movie didnt show enough in my opinion that Mary was at fault as well for what happened to her, she made countless stupid decisions and these mistakes got her killed in the end , Elizabeth didnt want to execute her but Mary didnt give her another choice either if you think about it...the moment she committed high treason against her she had to know that she will die
I thought that film was based on a play and not historical fact
@@coreyboggs2011 Me, too.
What another fab upload. I did have a little sympathy for Mary but I can't help but think that she took the piss. How many opportunities was she given by Elizabeth yet she still continues to to conspire against her. I do think that Elizabeth had very little choice in signing the execution papers and I believe she wanted to be seen in a positive light by her public and other heads of state so came up with the excuse of the execution carried out against her wishes. I do think Mary had a sense of entitlement to the English throne although I'm tempted to think this was down to a lot of people convincing her that this was the case (these people looking out for themselves and not for Mary).
Thank you and I completely agree :-)
Totally agree, Susan - Mary strikes me as perhaps a well-intentioned woman, but far too stupid to be a ruler or leader. She certainly seemed to love being Queen and all the power and privilege and self-claimed legal exemption from endless plotting that being Queen provided her, but she didn‘t seem to care too much about the actual people of Scotland, and only went back there as a last resort because she was kicked out of France. I‘ve never had any sympathy for her and she seemed like a childish idiot.
I have a feeling that being betrothed to a future king in her infancy and becoming Queen of France as well as being Queen of Scotland in her own right gave her an excess of her own feeling of importance, well above Elizabeth who was in her mind an illegitemate child anyway and Queen only because everyone else died off without an heir.
I have watched the History Channel my entire life and this Channel reminds me of all the Best Parts of History! I love this Show! Thanks so much!
I'm sorry for Mary but Elizabeth didn't have any choice unfortunately. Those were hard times ... ☹️
I swing between pity for Mary and frustration at the choices she made. I think she would have had Elizabeth killed, given the opportunity and I can't help but wonder if it would have needled her conscience as much as it did Elizabeth's. I agree that they were very difficult times to have to live in and navigate. You couldn't really lock someone up for life (at least not someone as high profile as Mary) and assume that that would be the end of it. Mary was always a willing magnet for conspiracies to oust Elizabeth and I agree with you that she left her cousin with few choices in the end.
@@HistoryCalling that’s the part no one seems to understand! If given a chance Mary would have had Elizabeth killed the first chance she got! I’m not sorry for her! Elizabeth clearly did not want to do it. Think of it her own mother and step mother were put to death!
It was family versus _Realpolitik_ : the latter usually wins out.
I agree with what you were saying in the end how Elizabeth probably did want Mary executed and was probably playing it up a little to remove some anger and blame from herself and shove it onto others. I find it interesting how she was so concerned about killing another monarch, but never insisted that a sword or something to be used to limit suffering and have a more dignified death...
Even her father when he executed her mother, Anne Boleyn, got an expert swordsman from France to do the deed with an exceptionally sharp blade, none of this axe stuff with the double hit and sawing...
Beheading was seen as much more dignified and merciful than hanging though.
And yet again, Mary was planning on getting Elizabeth assassinated and there's no mercy in that. Perhaps she didnt care, maybe thought Mary needed a taste of her own medicine?
Who knows.
I suppose if she'd gone to the trouble of ordering over a French swordsman (and what guy would want that job, as Mary was Queen Dowager of France), the time delay that would have caused would have left Elizabeth unable to pretend that she didn't know what was going to happen. I wonder myself if Mary's plans had worked, what fate she would have had in store for Elizabeth if she'd had her in her power ...
It's been AMAZING to listen to you and learn how easy and often it was that ROYALTY was killed.(murdered) it would have been easier to be a commoner citizen.
If only they had not been so cruelly manipulated by men who didn't think well of women. All of it is tragic.
Oh definitely. The entire Tudor/Stuart family history would put any Greek tragedy to shame I think. They spent half their time killing each other. I'm sure it was horrible not being able to trust your own flesh and blood.
History is full of men pitting women against each other.
Sounds like you're implying that it's a given that these demonstrably intelligent and powerful women (QUEENS, quite literally) were somehow psychologically, emotionally, and/or intellectually inferior to these men who "so cruelly manipulated" them. As if they had no agency of their own and were only capable of reacting to the input of males. Kind of insulting to their legacy and overall dignity, no? If they somehow came back to life today and you told them their decisions as the Queen of England and the Queen of France and Scotland were only the result of male manipulation...how do you think that would go?
@@KJones-qs7ju to the block! Off with her head 😂. I agree, it’s very patronizing to think these women to be mentally handicapped to the more sophisticated and intelligent chess playing men around them.
I think if Mary had kept quiet while under house arrest (in multiple lush houses!) she could have lived out the rest of her life in peace. But she didn’t.
Elizabeth had no choice and she did overlook Mary’s role in uprisings to save Mary’s skin but she wouldn’t relent.
In actuality, I don’t understand how Mary saw it ending for herself
I do think that Mary (and the pope and Elizabeth's own councilors ) had put Elizabeth in an extremely difficult situation, which seemed to admit of only one solution: Mary's death. I can see why Elizabeth was angry; she had been backed into a corner. She eventually did what, in her experience, had to be done, but she went kicking and screaming. Poor Davison, he must have been terrified.
It's odd there was nothing more accurate to charge Mary with than treason, which as the Scottish queen said, was impossible as she was not Elizabeth's subject. Force of habit, I guess.
I read that Mary and Elizabeth actually never met one another.
When I hear this story I often wish that Elizabeth could have had met Mary, and that they could have found common ground, perhaps making it less likely that Mary would have continued to plot Elizabeth’s murder.
I have always been a big history buff. I must say I love your channel and plus the factual presentations are fantastic. Greeting from Ecorse,Michigan U.S.A
I think Elizabeth had every right to execute Mary. She waffled as long as possible in not killing not only a fellow monarch but also a cousin. Whilst Mary seemed to have no compunction nor conscious about killing Elizabeth using religion as a means and a way. Mary has proven over and over again a coniver from the moment she stepped foot in Scotland. Embroiled in so many plots including murder. Mary's life would have been forfeit if not for Elizabeth saving her from one plot to another and then over and over again from advisors recommendations. She had already proven dangerous in her own country, ambitious to a fault and kept stepping over the line. How many times do you bite the hand that feeds you before the other bites back. Mary totally betrays her benefactoress. Then plots to murder again, she was insane with ambition, religious zeal, and i think jealousy of Elizabeth and her Throne. She would have been bloody Mary the 2nd if she had taken it. No matter how many Elizabeth killed due to religion, i feel Elizabeth was tolerant coming into her reign until the Catholics kept plotting against her. The longer it went on the the less tolerant, stamping out uprising after uprising, with Mary fueling it in the background when is enough enough? Mary QOS sealed her own fate.
Yes, I think Elizabeth was remarkably patient with her despite being repeatedly provoked and that she was more concerned with Mary's life than Mary was with hers. Had Mary acquiesced to her situation in England, she probably could have continued to live in relative comfort (certainly a lot more comfort than most people in the world enjoyed) for many more years. The idea that the English would accept her as their Queen, en masse, was really a pipedream and has always indicated to me that she was quite out of touch with reality on that point.
@@HistoryCalling Remarkable patience for sure, as Elizabeth was known to have little patience and contrary to a fault. She was very astute, and I would say brilliant she always had the foresight on how to manipulate situations to her advantage, navigating thru many treacherous situations. If her sister could have found a way she would have killed Elizabeth, but E was much smarter than Mary and E's questioners. I also think your right, she had planned her response to spin the backlash for killing Mary QoS, anticipating almost every outcome except the Spanish. Another situation she handled brilliantly as well. Gloriana on horseback rallying her troops, how magnificent a sight that would have been. Kings have been known to battle, but a Queen??? Cant wait for your next episode!
The Tilbury speech will be in next week's video :-)
Here here! Well written! 👏 👏 I agree completely.
Mary was a tall and lovely fool. She lived much longer than she might've. I've always wondered why , upon her escape across the channel , why she didn't go to France where she was a dowager Queen and had dower lands. Her mistakes are many , and her foe was formidable. She made 2 bad marriages of 3 and when she died had not even the love of her son.
France itself was ripped apart by religious strife at the time. I wonder how safe she would have been, and how she would have arranged to get there after losing at Langside. Would she have been a welcome guest in France--would her former brother-in-law have viewed the arrival of the former queen as an asset or a liability?
I think the Darnley marriage was an unforced error on her part, but Bothwell more or less forced her to marry him. She was extremely vulnerable as a woman ruler; she was a Catholic queen in a Protestant country where the nobles were even more fractious than those in England. She did not have great judgment at times, but the task before her in Scotland was impossible. Her stubborn belief that she was the rightful queen of England certainly led her to behave less than sensibly in her imprisonment. That she lost connection with her son was tragic, and in large part due to forces beyond her control. Her reference to him in her last letter to the king of France is very poignant.
Not a fool, perhaps, but she did on occasion fail to act in her own self interest.
Brilliant. Thank you 😊
You’re most welcome 😊
Elizabeth said with her final breaths that she did not order M's warrant.
As much as I adore both of these women, I think Elizabeth was right to execute Mary. The Babington plot was just the last one of a series of conspiracies on Mary`s part. Mary would have continued to conspire against her cousin as she could not hope for help from her son. She was pushed to the edge and had nothing to lose, except for her life, which made her so dangerous. She lost her crown, her son and her husbands (even though she might have been involved in her second husband´s murder). Elizabeth could not let her go anywhere else but Scotland since she would have been a powerful pawn in hands of the (catholic) European rulers. In my opinion Mary would have been better off if she either didn´t marry Darnley or didn´t flee to England. These two mistakes, especially the latter one sealed her fate. 2 queens, connected by blood, living in one realm is a little too crowded. Especially when both of them consider themselves the true heir to the throne. It is surprising to me that Elizabeth tried to avoid her execution for so long.
Yes, I think Elizabeth was really backed into a corner by Mary's behaviour as well. I can understand why Mary was frustrated and desperate, but she would have lived longer if she'd realised and accepted the futility of her position, rather than constantly provoking Elizabeth and her advisors. Like you, I think she made a great mistake in marrying Darnley, then allowing herself to be implicated in his murder, followed by another marriage to one of his supposed killers. She didn't have many options left when she fled to England, but you have to wonder what she thought would happen. Did she really think Elizabeth would put her back on her throne?! It just seems so naïve, especially given how clear she'd made it that she wanted E's crown too.
@@HistoryCalling Exactly! I could never can't wrap my head around this. Why, of all the options she had left, why did she choose to flee to England after provoking Elizabeth time and time again and again? It´s just downright stupid to assume Elizabeth would have helped her to get her crown back. I would never ask for help from someone I provoked and teased badly. I mean honestly... what was Mary thinking?
I think I'll probably do a video (or videos) on Mary at some point and dig into the details of her story more at that stage. I think England was a last resort, but she should have known that there would be no coming back from a decision like that. She was fortunate really that Elizabeth treated her as well as she did. I'm not sure that Mary ever thought through her decisions as much as she ought to have done. Elizabeth was certainly a more consummate politician and survivor.
@@HistoryCalling I am looking forward to your video :) 👍🏻 I know the relation between these two queens is quite complicated and we will most likely never know what they truly thought and felt about each other. But some decisions on Mary's side just make no sense to me whatsoever. I would be glad if someone could offer me some possible logical explanation to some of the mistakes she did.
Honestly I I think if you look at it from Elizabeth perspective she was a nuisance and had every good reason not to trust her I don’t get that Mary The martyr Elizabeth the cold-blooded killer kind a messed up more complicated than that that story is more interesting .
Thank you so much for these incredible videos. I have just found your channel and am determined to watch every singe one because your style is so interesting and easy to digest. Would you please consider doing a series about Catherine the Great? She is one of my favorite monarchs and there is a lot to discuss about her!
She's already on the list. :-) I even made a point of reading the biography I have of her and everything. I got the bug after I watched the show 'The Great' (not at all accurate, but a blast from start to finish).
@@HistoryCalling Hooray, I'm so glad to hear it!! I will be on the lookout on your channel. I haven't heard of "The Great" but have just looked it up and it looks very entertaining. The poster for it gives me Sofia Coppola's Marie Antoinette vibes. Interestingly enough there is a Russian show with the same title, but it has a much more serious tone. (I really enjoyed it but I'm not sure how easy it is to find a version with subs or dubs; if you can find it, though, I really recommend! It is called "Velikaya")
Another fantastic video. Thank you!
another amazing video!!!!
Thank you. I'm glad you liked it :-)
I could be misinformed about this, but I remember hearing that Mary was literally imprisoned following the murder of her second husband, and was assaulted and forced to marry her third, which caused the scandal that eventually led to her losing her throne. If true that would remove a lot of the culpability for her ending up in her reduced state, but she's entirely responsible for her actions once she's under Elizabeth's custodianship in England.
However, going through your videos on Queen Mary Tudor and now this one on Mary Queen of Scots, I wonder just how much of a difference it made that Elizabeth never married. Being a queen regnant was clearly a new concept at this time, and marriage seems to have muddied the role of a reigning queen. It made it so men felt animosity and competition with one another, which destabilizes the nobility, and they thought marriage was a way to seize power from these women. I feel bad for Mary Queen of Scots because it seems at least one of her husbands wanted to marry her just to gain her power and rule. I could be wrong since I'm very poorly informed on this subject, but I think she was sort of made a pawn by these men around her, who saw her as a conduit to power. But Elizabeth, by never marrying, protected her full and unquestioned authority, if only during her lifetime- the tradeoff is that the succession must have been a point of anxiety.
It's weird, in a way, Mary "won" in the end, because her son, who only existed because she married, took over the throne after Elizabeth. But Elizabeth is one of the greatest monarchs who ever lived, and reigned over an incredible period of English history. She has a great legacy still remembered today, but it's the descendants of Mary Stuart who sit on the throne. Which is the true success? Which is the true measure of successful monarchy? I favor Elizabeth, personally ;) anyway, I just love these videos. I love your thorough and faithful discussion of evidence and the articulate, sound arguments you make. I would love a mini series on Mary Queen of Scots, but regardless, please keep up the excellent work!
I can't remember where I read or heard this but someone put it this way, "Elizbeth finally did what her brother and sister had ultimately not dared to do; to execute her heir." To be fair, Elizabeth had to put up with Mary, Queen of Scotts for many years longer than Edward had to put up with Mary Tudor or that Mary Tudor had to put up with Elizabeth herself.
Although in her siblings's cases, the people they were considering getting rid of permanently were children of their father the king, and a king who was remembered fondly by his subjects. Much more dangerous to execute a child of your father the king than to execute the granddaughter of the king's sister (gone from England since she was an young adolescent), the queen of a foreign power, and a woman of the Catholic faith, who could be seen as a threat to the nation.
In my opinon Mary was the author of her own downfall, queen bess had no option but to execute Mary she was a threat, Mary made some bad decisions in her life sadly she paid a heavy price. Thank you well presented and narrated video.
Thanks.
As things were back in those days, Mary brought on her own troubles and eventually her own death. She had been a spoilt brat in France, and if she had cared anything about the Scottish people she would have shown this even when all was well in France. But she didn't care, not even after the death of her own mother. Mary showed little emotion one way or the other. Then when she went to Scotland, only because Catherine De Medici refused Mary to remain in France. She expected her people to adore her when they did not even know her. She expected them to cow tow to her commands and could not understand why they were so against her. She did nothing really to accept the ways of the Scottish people even calling them barbaric in their ways. Then with her laying claim to Elizabeth's crown even before leaving France and while in Scotland she expected Elizabeth to help her regain her throne. Mary lived in a dream world. She was selfish and down right snobbish in her manners and thoughts. She thought with her body not her mind so made all the wrong decisions and then expected all to be forgiven because of who she was. Live doesn't work that way even back in those days.
I need to do a series on Mary. She's on the list :-)
Nana, standing ovation! 🙌🏻 You put beautifully into words exactly my thoughts on Mary Stuart. I‘m glad we had Elizabeth showing that women can be competent and beloved rather than entitled and dumb. It also really irked me that Mary always wanted no consequences for her behaviour - even plotting to kill the Queen of England! - because she was Queen, don‘t you know.
Curious as to what she did to get herself called a spoiled brat in France.
Not a very fair summary, to me at any rate, of the life of a woman whose situation was far more complex than you suggest, and a woman of ability and experience which counted for little when she was tossed, an young unmarried woman of the Catholic faith, into the lion''s den of Scottish politics, run by Calvinist nobles who were essentially warring feudal petty kings. You give her credit for much more freedom of choice about her life in France, and her choices about her life afterward than I believe she had.
Please also cover war of roses
It's on the long-term list, though I think it'll take several videos to do and A LOT of family trees to help everyone keep up :-)
@@HistoryCalling Very complex. But such fascinating characters. From Henry XI and the original York to Elizabeth Woodville to Clarence's rebellion and Warwick to Richard III to Margaret de Beaufort. And everyone who's really read much about the time period has an opinion. :) Margaret of Anjou and Elizabeth Woodville and Margaret de Beaufort: heroines just protecting their families or villains or something in between? The original Richard of York/Edward IV and George, Duke of Clarence/Warwick and Richard III: were they justified in rebelling and were there other viable options?
Thanks!
THANK YOU very much for your generous donation Vicki. Tis much appreciated :-)
Its really hard to not believe that Mary had not brought that fate on to herself.
I'm not gonna lie I do believe in Absolute Monarchy, and Elizabeth's hesitance to kill another anointed queen is reasonable for my logic, but at this point Mary had grown to such a threat to the peace of the realm where she just had to die.
I think that Elizabeth's reservations about killing Mary, were (somewhat) due to how Elizabeth's own Mother, Anne Boleyn was killed. Anne, herself being an anointed Queen, murdered by her husband. Elizabeth didn't want to be seen as being too much like Her father, Henry.
Did Mary "deserve" death?? in the era She lived and Her constant plotting against Elizabeth, maybe She did. However, if the roles were reversed.. Elizabeth would of done the same, and more, as Mary did. They were both fiesty,, entitled Women, but I believe, Elizabeth was the more intelligent of the two. Their story is like a decades long chess game. Both played their hand, but ultimately, Mary lost the match
I absolutely love the chess game reference (not least because they were two queens, there are two queens in chess and they are the most powerful pieces on the board). Yes, I think Elizabeth must surely have considered her mother's fate during all of this as well.
@@HistoryCalling I wondered if it was a bit cliche to mention Chess in but it seemed fitting. Glad You liked it! Another great video from You too!!
she had to execute her. She obvs didn't want to do it. Mary had many chances, but obvs felt she had to keep trying to regain the throne. Maybe if you're a queen, you feel obliged. Eliz obvs didn't relish it....she wasn't cruel, I think. But all the time Mary was alive, she would be a focus for rebellion. I think Eliz bent over backwards.....but there is a limit. It is all just so sad, for both women.
Just wanted to comment that I recognized your charming accent - I recognized it from Puffin Rock! It's always a treat to listen to your videos.
Mary came to England for protection from Elizabeth. Is it possible, since she didn't get protection but years of imprisonment, that Mary grew to resent or even hate Elizabeth?
After imprisonment for many years, no help, is it possible the resentment or hate, drove her mad? In madness, the desire to gain power in order to punish her cousin, not just fellow Queen, manifested in actively plotting Elizabeth's death?
Just a thought?
Great work on the Tudor series.
Thank you!🌹🍃
She was quite right to put an end to Mary's life! Mary had shown ingratitude, time after time, towards Elizabeth who offered protection for her after Mary's own relations plotted not only her downfall, but sort her life, as well! Her life, Mary's, was the basis of continued plotting against not only Elizabeth, but the people of England, too! She had to go. I only fault Elizabeth for holding her captive for so long, which in itself, caused continued plots, from Spain and Rome, as well as disgruntled Catholics. Had Mary just kept her mouth shut and shown gratitude for at least being treated as a queen, though in exile, Elizabeth's heart might've softened and see that she had been made more comfortable...at least!
Like your video on history
This was a sad part of both their reigns, as cousins and Queens. I feel for Mary she was Queen of Scotland at 6 days old, had a legitimate claim to English throne, was Queen of France, yet everything was taken away from her and she ended up a prisoner, even her son abandoned her, perhaps after all she endured, she was trying to get back what she had lost, even her execution was cruel. Elizabeth was a great Queen there's no disputing that but also a true Tudor and the best thing she did was to close the Tudor line with her great reign. In the end it was Mary's son that gained both thrones so she did check mate Elizabeth in the end. So much could've changed had Henry not married Anne Boleyn.
Elizabeth just wanted Mary’s pearls …..
8:56 Throckmorton? The famous Skateboarder?? Omg
(This is in reference to that old Tumblr meme)
I think Mary was the author of most of her misfortunes! 😢
People treat her like an innocent victim as if she didn’t very much murder her husband (whether or not it was justified is another matter, she was clearly involved in the murder which was a crime that carried the death sentence at the time)
One would expect that Mary would not like being locked up... no matter how nicely. Mary was really adrift between Her son and Liz. so I think they negated much of her threat . .. but opportunists would probably often use her. She would have to rely on outside help as she had no Army.. I respect my Scottish Ancestors , but the truth is they rarely did well against England..largely because they couldn't get along enough to form a solid front against their southern enemy.... so... were they really as big a problem as we ( and the English of the time ) have thought? The French would have to cross the channel... a bigger feat than we now think. But I can also imagine Elizabeth's fears.. she lived a life of danger and would probably welcome some respite. So too I could see Elizabeth's fear of a precedence in executing a Monarch as it could be turned against her. I see no way to know if execution was the best option.. but if Mary lived, someone would want to involve her in one of their schemes.
I hope you can do an episode on Cat.. Elizabeth's favorite Lady of the Bed Chamber ( I think that's her title). I think it would be very interesting. Thanks for another interesting video.
I feel that Mary gave Elizabeth little choice in the matter. She continued to agree to plots against Elizabeth knowing what she was doing was treason and the punishment would eventually have to be her death.
Like so many royals, Mary was raised disconnected from reality, convinced her royal prerogative cancelled out the desires of her people and council. To f it up further, in Britain she carried the interests of the Catholic church on her shoulders, at the time Scots discovered their taste for Calvinism and anti-Catholic prejudice solidified in England. Add to that youth, inexperience, and her entanglement to France: Her return to Scotland seems destined to fail. Through TH-cam history channels, I've glimpsed that she also failed to learn from her mistakes, and never realized her situational awareness sucked. She lacked empathy and her POV remained stubbornly locked behind her own eyes. Hence, events and human behavior consistently took her by surprise. She was wonderfully educated, yet not equipped for national leadership. Her story comes across as Shakespearean tragedy as a result.
I don't disagree, but it's also true that ruling Scotland at that time would have been difficult for anyone. Many regencies had not enhanced respect for the crown, and a ruler who was a Catholic, a woman, and (basically) French was going to have a very difficult time, no matter what her leadership skills.
@@edithengel2284 Absolutely agree. Scotland was always challenging because the nobility/chieftains competed with the crown for authority and opportunity. Hence, Scottish kings had to rule "with an iron fist." Mary was a cerebral woman convinced of her divine right, and never demonstrated an instinct for brutality. that the reformation and two treacherous husbands and...yikes!
@@jeffcampbell1555 Yes, yikes, maybe with additional exclamation points!!!
As strong as Elizabeth was, it seems that her weakness was to try to keep everyone happy and not rock the boat or do anything that would cause displeasing repercussions. Her counsellors pushed her around too easily. She had the power to say “NO! I will not execute Mary!” If she’d really wanted to. Instead she signed the warrant against her best judgment to please her advisers and paid the price for it. In the end, I think Mary’s behaviour necessitated it but no one deserves their execution to be butchered in that manner. 😔
Elizabeth didn't sign Mary's death warrant because she was a people pleaser, or because her advisors pushed her around. She signed it because she knew it was a necessity to preserve her life and her kingdom. This didn't mean she liked the idea. I think her councillors would have been very startled to hear that they could get around her easily. What price (other than her personal emotional distress) did she pay--or was that what you are referring to?
I often wonder what can have possibly motivated these nobles to risk their lives, their honor, their fortunes and the fortunes of their descendants by committing treason? Why be so ambitious for a crown, when they already have lands, and riches aplenty? Especially considering that the moment they succeed, they'll become a target for murder themselves? Why was Elizabeth so determined to protect Protestantism if it meant that all of Europe was against the English and herself? Was she really such a believer then? Or was it because renouncing Protestantism would make her a bastard? Why was Mary so determined to overthrow her cousin, who had shown her every mercy, and comfort, and whose own son was next in line to succeed? Religious zeal???
It is always interesting how people view Mary killing Jane Grey vs Elizabeth killing MQOS
Jane Grey was a teenager who was forced into queenship and whose first words after being overthrown were ‘can I go home now?’
Mary was an adult 44 year old woman who had murdered her own husband and fled her country and directly conspired to commit treason and repeatedly refused any attempt by Elizabeth to extend an olive branch to save her life
Were I in Elizabeth's position I'd have done the same. Mary's constant involvement in this or that while under Elizabeth's care, gave root to her decision. Instead of gratitude, she displayed disrespect and annoyance, continuously, while Elizabeth disregarded her council's advice, in order to preserve her life! Mary's life and continued existence were a cause of constant problems for Elizabeth and a worry for her subjects, esp the protestants! She became too much of a burden and the hope of angry catholics! She had to go! And the situation seemed to worsen as time went on. Logically, she had to go!
In your opinion who is more interesting Mary queen of France or Margret queen of Scotland
Hmm, I don't know enough about them at the moment to give an answer I think, but they're on my list to have their own videos in the future, so I'll maybe decide then.
She could be fierce, but was reasonable too. Just don’t push her!
What’s your opinion of the TV show rain which is “based on Mary Queen of Scotland life story it’s really kind a messed up
Hideous. The costumes alone made me want to weep.
So sad that is sister against sister 😢😢
Cousin vs. cousin in this case.
I read that her dogs were pugs, is this true?
I think Mary got a bum rap.
I really wish you would remind us of her age when you tell us the dates of significant romantic relationship events. It's harder for me to understand the lay of the land when it's not brought up whether she's of child bearing age. Obviously I know she was the "virgin queen", but without knowing her age when these negotiations with Mary were occuring, or when she almost married the French guy, it's difficult to understand whether people at the time might be holding out hope of her producing an heir.
Also, with so many women around her dying during childbirth, I can imagine that would have also had an impact on her motivation to find a suitable partner.
Yes Elizabeth was right to execute Mary but did it have to be so gruesome couldn't she have hired an expert swordsman like Henry did for her mother Ann Boleyn and do it in one slice.
Ah, but if she'd done that she couldn't have denied later that she knew what was going to happen :-)
I think Elizabeth had no choice to kill Mary. She couldn't have a rival Queen challenging her.
Without a doubt,Mary brought all the troubles in her life on herself. Elizabeth was right to have finally executed her. The Pope bears some blame as well. Without an issued dispensation for anyone who might murder Elizabeth, she might have looked more kindly on her Catholic subjects.
Why don’t I see visuals on TH-cam on TV?
No idea I'm afraid. If I run TH-cam (any channel, not just my own) on TV, it shows whatever the visuals are. Maybe a problem with your device?
@@HistoryCalling Saint Edmund Campion, Saint Margaret Ward, , Saint Margaret Clitheroe, Saint Margaret Ward, and all 40 English Mary’s. Pray for Us!
I could hardly blame Mary for plotting for her own release after being imprisoned for near on 20 years.
You could blame her, or at least her judgment, for encompassing the death of Elizabeth, though.
Who were the relic hunters.
Just anyone who happened to be there and could have dipped a handkerchief in her blood, or got a hold of a piece of her clothing.
Hi it's Alison. Hope you've had a good week. I started reading the White Ship by Earl Spencer this week. It's great and I told him so on Instagram and he replied to me. I was so pleased 😊
Oh wow. That's great. It was nice of him to respond. Enjoy the book. It's a fascinating part of history :-)
& yet they are buried side by side :)
I'm not sure either one of them would like it! 😀
Elizabeth was the prime aggressor because in 1569 she unlawfully ( but expediently) imprisoned Mary .
OK it was naive of Mary to expect help from Elizabeth and indeed Elizabeth had no moral reason to help her…however for Elizabeth the moral decision would have been to say to Mary ‘ you’ve lost your kingdom, not my problem ‘… let her depart for Europe. She did after all acknowledge at the Conclusion at the Conference of York there was no evidence against Mary being party to Darnley murder.
Ok there were strong political expedient arguments for not allowing Mary to wander round Europe as a potential alternative to Elizabeth.
But expediency doesn’t make it morally right .
So Elizabeth imprisoned Mary ( albeit ‘ honourably )for almost 20 years .
Is it all that unreasonable for Mary to attempt to escape from an illegal imprisonment. Now if she said to those who were willing to try to rescue her ‘ look thanks but once I’ve escaped I’ll be leading a quiet life abroad, ‘no one would have been interested ,so in a way ( and I admit it’s a bit morally grey) Mary’s only way to escape her illegal imprisonment was to align herself with those who wanted to kill her jailer.
But I believe ultimately if Elizabeth hadn’t imprisoned Mary in the first place the Fotheringhay endgame would not have occurred.
A moral decision, but very dangerous to herself.
Did anyone ever go to the block kicking and screaming?
If so, how was the execution accomplished?
Google the execution of Margaret, Countess of Salisbury.
Yes, Mary was foolish and conspired on behalf of her own downfall. The only wonder was how long it took Elizabeth to do what she was always going to do.
I love your work. : )
Pitting women against one another was as old as Tudor times.
I don't see how Elizabeth's and Mary's relationship would have been much different had they been men. The rulers of Scotland and England had been pitted against each other for years. The fact that both happened to have queens at this time added a few twists, but didn't change the basic pattern.
A quote;
From one queen 👑 of another, given gods own atonement immortal, this queen 👑 is also mortal within death!
Agent of God 🙏 and queen 👑,
But a monarch must do what is right for her people!
Spain was bold and definitely bent on invasion, force's beyond both monarchy, nature had other ideas for weather was a big part of history.🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Mary should have been spared!
I have never understood why anyone who wanted Mary on the throne wrote to her. Why!! She can’t do anything, we know she will take the throne so why send her letters it’s pointless and risky just kill old Lizzy done. There was no need to talk to Mary
Well Elizabeth won at the end
She did indeed.
I concur! Folks usually think Elizabeth’s execution of Mary meant she won battle but Mary won the war as James I ascended to the English throne in 1603. However, I see this too as a victory for Elizabeth as this meant she was able to reign independent of a husband or heir who could rival her for power and left England in the hands of Tudor descendant without the Elizabeth’s procreation. In essence, the last Tudor Queen got everything she ostensively wanted in the end
She did. I think that's probably what makes her the most popular Tudor. She reigned on her own terms, but without descending into the total tyranny of her father and sister (and I think Edward VI was well on his way to joining them). Mary's story is unfortunately one of great early promise which then fell apart in the face of failure after failure, most notably her terrible taste in husbands (bar Francis).
@@johntshorter hmmm I not think that mary Queen of Scots won the war because she was a Catholic and James is a Protestant and he refused to see his mother and Elizabeth refused to marry or her kid could have ruled England in 1603 so I think Elizabeth won both battle and war she was strong and known as the greatest monarch so yeah I still feel like Elizabeth won both and if lady Jane grey was alive and never killed by Mary the 1 and if she was still alive in 1603 or her kids where then she would have been queen since she had better claim to the English throne then mary Queen of Scots and James the 1 so yeah I think James filled his mother dream and her descended took the throne but Elizabeth refused to marry so she still wins the fight was only between Elizabeth and Mary no one else and by this Elizabeth is the winner what do you think I would love to know your thoughts and opinion thanks so much for reading my comment and plz tell me your opinion and weather you agree or not thanks so much
Can we blame Elizabeth? Yes! Yes we can! Lol. Its not like she had to take her cousin prisoner in the first place. The real question is can we blame Mary for trying to escape and take back her throne?
I absolutely aree with you. Elizabeth was jealous of Mary from the start. You are right! Elizabeth did not have to imprison Mary. Of course Mary would have been plotting on Elizabeth who held her prisoner. Did Elizabeth really believe that Mary would cower in a corner and accept it? Elizabeth did not have the guts to take the responsibility on herself for Mary's execution. I dont think she was bothered by Mary's execution. I believe she was worried about how it would make her look to the rest of Europe. Optics. Mary plotted her way into the noose. But I have to admire her guts! IMO, she had more spine than Elizabeth. Yes. I am on team Mary. lol
I thought Elizabeth was religiously tolerant 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺this is a sad tale between these two women
Why did she not get a royal execution. Using a sword notches block? She was royal after all 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
A sword was not necessarily a part of royal executions. In fact, other than Anne Boleyn, I don't know of any other English royal family member executed by sword.
Elizabeth was, comparatively speaking, religiously tolerant, however the Pope's statement that she was not a rightful queen made her deeply suspicious of Catholic activities. Before that she did not press Catholics to do anything other than show up at the Anglican Church where it was not commanded that they take communion.
Elisabethan hottie - Sir Francis Drake!
Elizabeth ruled with her head. Mary ruled with the heart attracted to bad boys is like saying: oh please wont you please ruin my life. Thats. Ok when you are a teenager and not a monarch. Clearly not fit to rule. Elizabeth on the other hand kept her alive as long as she could. I beleive she could have taken her out sooner. It is my understanding that Scotland did not like a woman especially a foreigner ruling them with john knox threatening a revolt against her at every turn. She would have met with the same fate in any given political situation for that time.
Aren’t they half sisters? Same dad.
You are thinking of Mary Tudor who was indeed Elizabeth's half sister. Mary Stuart, Queen of Scotland, was Elizabeth's cousin, the granddaughter of her father's sister Margaret Tudor.
Yes she was right to execute Mary. Mary became more dangerous the longer she was held. 19 years in total. That length of imprisonment made Mary have no hope of freedom, and nothing to lose. The plots would have continued if she hadn't been executed.
Am I the only one having trouble recognising Elisabeth and Mary from portrait to portrait? The likeness of them seems to change with every painting! I am still not sure if I'd know either one if they stood up in Ye Olde Soupe.
They were both evil Eliabeth and Mary Tudor.
And Mary Queen of Scots?
Mary Tudor was the only true heir of Henry8. Elizabeth was actually illegitimate and shouldn't have been queen at all. Nor her brother Edward. Mary of Scots had far more claim to the throne since she was a legitimate niece of Henry8.
Although Mary Tudor and her sister Elizabeth were both declared illegitimate: Henry VIII's act of succession governed, and the two women were both legally able to succeed to the throne. I'm not sure on what grounds you've eliminated Edward; his parents were married after Catherine and Anne were both dead. He was the only one who was absolutely certain to be legitimate.
How is a niece a more legitimate heir than a daughter?
Also, whatever your beliefs on Elizabeth’s legitimacy, Edward was definitely a legitimate heir to King Henry VIII. Though I will concede that he shouldn’t have been queen! Lol 😂😂😂