The Rakhigarhi Archaeological evidence and its impact on the Aryan Migration Theory
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- I chat with Dr. Vasant Shinde about the latest paper that he has co-authored on cell.com. This podcast covers the archaeological details of the Rakhigarhi website.
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I am sorry about the sound quality at the start. It gets sorted out in 10 minutes or so. Just listen to the discussion with earphones and you will be fine.
I am very grateful to you for getting Dr Shinde on the podcast. Despite issues with the bandwidth this is one of my favorite charavak podcasts. Please get Dr Shinde again
Thank you Kushal.
This video should get atleast 1 million views . Thankyou Kushal Bhai for this . Gratitude to Persons like Dr.Shinde who are doing such a great work .
Guys if you have problems with the audio quality in this video try this audio-only link on SoundCloud. This will be relatively clearer to hear. Warning!! the 1st 18 minutes will have issues, but, after that, it is smooth sailing. And anyways the main argument is from 18 minutes onwards. I once again apologise for this goof up, but trust me it was beyond my control. soundcloud.com/kushal-mehra-99891819/the-rakhigarhi-archaeological-evidence-and-its-impact-on-the-aryan-migration-theory
Lol, I guess the Deccan College internet network still sucks! Nevertheless, thank you for featuring Dr. Shinde on the podcast. He was my Guru and we used to have a joke about Dr. Shinde being a skeleton specialist, such was his luck with finding at least one at every site he excavated!! I'm absolutely thrilled about the Rakhigarhi findings and what that means for the future for Harappan archaeology.
Appreciate your podcast, subscribed and will check out past and future videos.
@Matthayi Naalaaman you are thinking that he was ideologically dishonest, but is it true?
Just a few years before, anybody who spoke against or deviated from the leftist view were sidelined as dishonest, RSs bhakt etc. So who is ideologically driven?
@Matthayi Naalaaman His research was before the his finding and he also gave interviews over misreporting that Rakhigiri don't have R1a DNA because The skeleton did contain the DNA even leftist media outlet like The Hindu publish this thing that Rakhigiri skeleton did have R1a DNA
@Matthayi Naalaaman He maybe we scared to publish openly everyone remember emergency and record of congress of putting people on fake cases and communist like in case of Kerela communist govt put fake spy case on Nambi narayan the ISRO chief
Great work, Dr Shinde
Appreciate your hard work in this field
Sound quality 😭😭 . Please add subtitles so that listener could comprehend what Dr Shinde is saying .
Hahahah the left must be losing their minds.
Ashish Patel r1a1 dna nahin Mila Bhai😖
@@neelgupta6974 r1a1 is only there in 35% of Indians it was developed in India about 15 thousand years watch the podcast by Niraj Rai just before this a lot of people are getting in the leftist propaganda
@Anonymous it's the vedio before this one on charavaka podcast
@@indrason6974 r1a1 is actually in only in about 17% of Indians. Dr. Gyaneshwar Chaubey's estimates puts H at 40% for India and R1 at 17%.
R1a1 can't be found in a female DNA, let's wait till we find more ancient male DNA
The report is quite clear that the Steppe descended people were responsible for the spread of Indo-Iranian languages in Central Asia and the introduction of Indic I.E language into South Asia along with the Indo-Iranian roots of what later became Vedic religion
27:30 Actual evidence starts here
Add close captioning please. Thank you.
Mr Mehra, since the video wasn’t clear, can you please do a detailed video explaining what Dr Shinde is saying?🙏🏽🙏🏽
Aryans did not know Town Planning. For evidence, just look around.
Accha ? Who told you? romila Thapar????
@@veerbhadraarya8918 Use urs...for once!
@@vijayjosh5895 I'm not scientist but I Can't Believe or back that theory which divide us. I Can't back that Theory which was given by those makes us slaves who looted our economy 44% to 4% of world economy. Every human on the earth feel proud on their culture and history except some indians who see their ancestors as stupid. But sorry I'm not one of them.
@@veerbhadraarya8918 Any way, dear, do you know the best thing that ever happened to India when british rule got established? Children from all walks and strata of life could sit together in a classroom on equal status and taught by the same teachers without any bias. That was a terrific thing, it was a new Hindu era.Golden era. Compare Shambuk and Dr Ambedkar as a litmus test? Need more, I shall be much obliged.
@@vijayjosh5895 Dear Sir, It's fault of Indians not Indian Scriptures. So, You can't blame our shastra.
Great work Dr. Shinde. Kushal well done
Sound quality is bad. And lengthy monologues are making it hard to follow the topic. Wish there was more dialogue.
Steppe migration to South Asia occurred after 1500 BC. The skeleton excavated in Rakhigarhi is of 2500 BC. It is but natural that one won't find Steppe gene in that sample. How does it prove that there was no Steppe migration? Let science not be clouded by our preconceived thoughts.
The 1500BC term is a baby numb material now. The skeleton is a female that's why it lacks the R1a1 dna , btw for your information the R1a1 dna is the so called Aryan dna which is an Y dna and females do not carry Y dna because their formation of chromosome is XX not XY. The Dr. Before your name must be fake if u can't even make this simple thing out
Check meaning of hypothesis on Google 👍🏼 it is not a fact
Your videos would be lot better with better audio and some slides presentations instead of just two people talking. Thanks
Really very sad I could not make out even one sentence what Dr. Shinde said due to very poor quality audio.
Really "Path breaking" work that has changed the history of India for good!!
Allow people to contribute subtitles for the videos.
Mehra and Shinde's Indian accents are hard enough to understand without the audio problems
Thank You for the upload
unfortunately his voice is not clear. Please see, that when you call a guest, you better get you checklist of basics done. Such a valuable contribution not reaching to people due to these small issues like not using a microphone and ensuring a clear voice.
Awesome work Dr
One question .. in Hinduism we do not cremate.. how is this so here
@@amrisha12 In the early parts of the Rig Veda it seems both burial and cremation were practiced
Totally disappointing! Why do a podcast on such an important topic if you can't manage decent audio quality?!
You need to work on ur Audio bro . Cant hear anything . Have u heard the video after upload . The content is so good you are missing on the Audio.
Ignorance is not bliss...Aryan Migration or invasion is true ..
1. The first argument was that there were no major gene flows from outside to India in the last 12,500 years or so because mtDNA data showed no signs of it. So also Dr Sathe study was the mtDNA OF A WOMEN skeleton WHOSE DNA MATCHES WITH TAMIL AND KERALA " IRULAR" . This argument was found faulty when it was shown that Y-DNA did indeed show major gene flows from outside into India within the last 4000 to 4,500 years or so, especially R1a which now forms 17.5% of the Indian male lineage. The reason why mtDNA data behaved differently was that Bronze Age migrations were severely sex-biased.
2. The second argument put forward was that R1a lineages exhibited much greater diversity in India than elsewhere and, therefore, it must have originated in India and spread outward. This has been proved false because a mammoth, global study of R1a haplogroup published last year showed that R1a lineages in India mostly belong to just three subclades of the R1a-Z93 and they are only about 4,000 to 4,500 years old.
3. The third argument was that there were two ancient groups in India, ANI and ASI, both of which settled here tens of thousands of years earlier, much before the supposed migration of Indo-European languages speakers to India. This argument was false to begin with because ANI - as the original paper that put forward this theoretical construct itself had warned - is a mixture of multiple migrations, including probably the migration of Indo-European language speakers.
These people work for Hindutva ideology not for science. There is no enough scholars in south or east to speak the truth.
All your stupid arguments are falsified by the statement "movementof the peoples" so shut up
Read the research papers of Sharma,chaubey...about R1a1 haplogroup.there are lots of roofs suggesting that R1a1 originated in India
Yes ancestry goes to Tamil and kerala Irular because the genetic code remains the same for Indians south Indians carry the pure code of that gene.ANI formed by multiple migration is true but is not concerned with stupid aryan Invasion or migration or tourist...hoax🤣🤣🤣
@@xeonquantum3966 peoples whom you choose as a eminent are here to work for communist,leftist and they are liars.they don't work for science or nation.so stop your bla bla bla bullshit
@@theanonymous7584 genetics is science lol.. most ANI ARE DRAVIDIAN ABD OTHERS MIXED WITH ARYANS OF IRAN
This subject is very complex and confusing.. adding to that the audio problem also there..
Vasant is more into pots and pans. Why is there no R1a1a found in the sample at Rakhigarhi and now (in 2020) R1a1a is much more common in North India?
I dont know much about that but you can watch dr. Niraj rai interview here
R1 a1 is not that common in north Indian.
In fact close to 21 pc in north and 18 pc in south indians. In some tribes of south India this gene is more prominent than that in north Indians. Overall India shows great diversity in R gene..R1A1R1A2, R2 etc..thats why some say that this gene originated In India.
Great video and interview (except for the sound problem) Let me look at this in a completely neutral way and summarize based on evidence so far:
1. Was there steppe DNA in the Rakhigarhi remains? NO
2. Did steppe DNA come into the indian population sometime later? YES (around 1500 BC and later based on dating techniques)
3. Was IVC or steppe DNA the original indo-European speakers who developed Vedic culture? We cannot say for sure because genetics cannot be transposed onto language
But pls bear in mind that:
1. Steppe DNA is found both in india (mixed with ancient Indian specific DNA) and Europe ( mixed with ancient European DNA).
2. Indian-specific DNA clades has so far not been found in Europe
Therefore more work will be needed, more DNA samples (both male and female from IVC and different regions in india) and more archaeological evidence (e.g horse, chariots, etc) so let us not jump to definitive conclusions until then
As regards point number (3) we can be certain that vedic culture came with r1a1. The ivc is more ancient than r1a1 in India and it is totally different from the vedic culture. It naturally follows that r1a1 is responsible for vedic culture.
@Matthayi NaalaamanI'm not disputing that the self styled Aryans came from outside sometime around 4000 years ago. While we don't have any evidence for Invasion as such, it doesn't imply that no skirmishes took place. Intermingling happened between the people of 2 cultures, which was not on equal terms. At physical level, we find r2a1 dominant among males and indegenous Mt DNA among the female population in the aryavarta , the region over which the Aryans spread. Culturally, the 'mingling' was equally lopsided with indo Aryan languages completely erasing the Dravidian languages. The caste system and ritualistic religion emerged both of which were foreign to the indegenous culture. In short, even though no invasion on large scale occured, it is certain that ideological and cultural hegemony of the Aryans was established. This is an inescapable fact, the evidence of which we all see in North India even today. Smaller and local cultures survive in India today, which are being rapidly absorbed by the dominant culture.
@@anandbiga *caste system foreign to the indigenous culture*
This is false.
A caste system has existed far before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in Dravidian society. They practiced endogamy long before the IEs did.
Listening to Dr Shinde is amazing
Hi, why don't you bring Tony Joseph on to your podcast? We must cover all perspectives. Should we not?
Tony Joseph is a fucking journalist.
"The Aryan Dance theory" man!!! thats a good one. We should call it that.
Sound quality is unfortunately very poor. Not able to make half of what he said
Sound quality horrible...I couldn't follow... such an important topic... 😐
sound quality is super bad. Why doesnt the host use Zoom software for such kind of meetings and talks.
Very poor video and audio quality just like most other videos on this channel
Audio quality is not good
Plz do something
हिंदी में होता इंटरव्यू तो बहुत अच्छा होता🙏।
हिंदी में सब-टाइटल्स होता तो भी बहुत लोग को फायदा होता.
@@anandbiganow you know how we in south of India are frustrated when you speak in hindi .you better learn English
Please get dr s k manjul next. Sanauli chariots need to be discussed.
There are attempts that channels like Live History India are doing to twist Dr. Shinde's words.
Excellent video
Very good information
Terrible sound quality.
It clearly shows a great tradition and civilized tamil people were living a sophisticated life in this mass land... the aryan migration not invasion i believe.. because tamil people are known for their bravery . they can even die for preserving their language , heritage .. I believe that people from iran - jews and persians moved to east after muslim invaded iran around 1500 - 900 BC to be approximate.. these people mingled with the dravidan tamil people and later they dominated the tamils and divided them and declared untouchables and uncivilized .. occupied this area saying they are god people and sacrificing animals in fire and brain washed kings during that period that they will get great power out of it. later after buddha who strong opposed this cruality they started uaing ghee then sacrifiae.. previously in aswametha yaga... they sacrifised horses similar to a part of jews . then later they just done this with horse idol.
these excavation clearly shows these people lived with out any religious evidences ... it proves the something drastically happened in this land mass over a period of time and everything chaned the way we live now..
The indian goverment is afraid of the excavation happening in tamilnadu ( keezhaladi, Aadhicahanallure) as it reveals the oldest civiliazation and provea the tamil literacture descriptions..
they spend more time , money to do archelogy in north but ignoring the south.. to be specific they transfered Amarnath who was the head of the keladi excavation and sent to another place in north even though he argued that he has finished just 10% of the archeology process.. gov stpped the excavation and declared it is done and only later with the help of madurai high court order to continue to process but still with political intervention they lag the interest and ignoring it.
with just 10% effort we got this much data .. why not allow them to do the entire process...
the question araise now is are these people scared of these archeological evidence as it rewrites the entire history of india and provea the land mass belongs to dravidians..
They are ignoring deciphering the scripts which is written in tamili ( tamil - brahmi) which connects the dots beetween indus valley - hariyana - tamilnadu . it is already proved in kiladi scripts that it has tamil names like aadhan etc... dated 600 BC which has consonants at the end unlike the sanskrit which is similar to the avestan language of persian .
Do not worry north because even though if it gets proved we tamils are the older and civilized and owns this last mass , mother of all civilization , we will never send you outside.. as our culture itself say that we are all one people and we believe it and follow it.. we oppose only if something like hindhi, sanskrit is imposed on us.... which may lead to destroy our language and culture..
Though not in details but I agree with you entirely regarding the bias against the Dravidian culture vis-a-vis the Aryan culture. Since the occupation of aryavarta following their migration to India, the Aryans established their authority by force. Subsequently, they imposed their language and culture in aryavarta which spread to further east and the south. This culture hegemony couldn't be replaced even by the Mughals and the British, though their impact was greater on the elites and also the lower class/caste, many of whom embraced Islam or Christianity. It would be very interesting to understand the details as to how the Aryan cultural hegemony managed to retain its hold in the cow belt through cultural imperialism. That aside, today Aryan hegemony is at its peak cos the present regime openly stands for ram rajya. Since it has scant regards for democratic principles I won't be surprised to find that any research which may expose the theory of Aryan supremacy will be stone walled. In fact I am very much inclined to believe that, cos no research/excavations worth its name have happened since mohanjadaro and Harappa since the early '20s, which was done under the British rule. There are end number of archeological sites in the Narmada valley where the gond tribes thrived, which spoke Dravid based language. And, down south in Tamil Nadu, AP etc there are very many sites of ancient habitation, which remain unexplored. Shinde, Rai, Singh etc are after all govt servants and this regime is hell bent on weakening all the democratic institutions incuding the scientific institutions.
You people are brainwashed beyond repair by the Christian missionaries.
@@anandbiga there was no Aryan invasion and no Aryan did not imposed there culture by force you people are brainwashed beyond repair.
This is groundbreaking ffs . Why are we still sitting on this info and not legitimizing it . Anyway . Think of how much (more) science and knowledge this civilization had. Some still around and mostly lost . These old ass people knew astronomical realities . Keep looking good sir Shinde good man
DNA study proved Steppe people migration. The DNA is ~4500 year old pre migration period and didn't contain any R1a1 haplogroup. It's good that the woman was buried not cremated. This guy is mixing religion with scientific finding.
You yourself are confusing steppe DNA with r1a1 just watch the video right before this one
@@indrason6974
it is there propoganda
to prove
false hypothesis of
Arya migration
there was no race like ARYA
it is related to
noble qualities ...
even
Bhagwan BUDHA
described
ARYA SATYA means noble truth
@Ohm namah Shivay
buddhism and jainism
are not different
religion
but
different way of
SANYASI
to
controll
mind and
काम क्रोध मोह मद मत्सर लोभ ..........
धर्म की परिभाषा अलग है
धर्म मे
अहिंसा
सत्य
अक्रोध
क्षमा
शौच
धैर्य
विद्या
सयंम
ईंद्रीयनिग्रह
ईत्यादी को धर्म के लक्षण कहते है
और ईन लक्षणो को आचरण करने के लिए जो अलग अलग ऊपासना तप ध्यान किया जाता है
ऊनमेसे एक जिन....याने ईद्रियोपर विजय
और बुध्दीईझम
वही है
ईच्छा वासना पर नियत्रंण .....
भगवदगीता भी यही कहती है
पर यह सब झगडा आज के कम्युनिस्टोने शुरु कर दिया
@Ohm namah Shivay
religion and Dharma
are totally two different concepts
and
we all INDIANS are
one rt from
kandhar to asam
and kashmir to kanykumari
unfortunately
forgotten our
identity
@Ohm namah Shivay
religion is like
organised
one god
one religiuos book
one moralorder
one army
one state and no question at all
i.e.religious autocratic sustem.
faith is different
and
DHARMA is different
Humans history education india not africa
Ved writing on eratha mekar,india
The quality of sound recording is poor . it really becomes difficult to follow
Three points:
1) There is no "aryan gene" that compels people to speak an aryan language, and language can be adopted or replaced within a short time - within one generation. So tying language with genetic ancestry is utter nonsense.
2) The Indian subcontinent is a huge area. It would not be surprising if there were two languages - dravidian and aryan - in India form before 9000 years ago, particularly in ancient pre-history when communications between different areas were not as good. There certainly were many more different languages in Europe, China etc.
3) The languages may have been tied to populations practising different types of farming which would have taken place in different areas eg. dravidian with intensive cultivation of crops with river irrigation, and aryan with nomadic herding of animals in areas away from irrigation sources suitable for cultivation. The language predominance in a particular area may have changed in history when lifestyles changed. For example when the river Saraswathi gradually dried up, the population cultivating crops near rivers may have gradually changed to animal husbandry, moving into areas suitable for pastoral farming, mixing with those already practising pastoral farming, and adopting their language and many of their customs, while introducing some of their own to the pastoral community, giving rise to a mixed culture.
Don't use the word arayan with steppe, they used arayan word of Sanskrit text which means Noble and any one can be a noble man with education so steppe is a gene and Arayn is Sanskrit word which fabricated by West buggers as synonymous of Steppe so that they can manipulate Indians & divide them 👍🏼
-
Now Indians getting education so there's no place of false narrative and biblical myths in India :)
Humans growth india not africa
Your audeo is bad, kindly improve.
आपको यह जानने में दिलचस्पी होगी की वेद प्राचीन सिन्धु घाटी के लोगों द्वारा लिखे गए थे। ब्रह्म प्रजापति वहा रहते थे। और वह पौराणिक ब्रह्मवर्त था। कृपया मेरा वीडियो देखें: th-cam.com/video/L-HH10_G4no/w-d-xo.html
Such a bad quality sound
Namaste
THE PRIEST KING STATUE RESMBLES EXACTLY A --VEDIC BRHAMIN PRIEST WHO SPEAKS PROTO-SANSKRIT !!
Truly speaking, he is much more than a bramhin! He had to prove his merit to become a priest. Get the point? No reservation for him!
*PURA END TAK DHYAN SE PADNE PAR HI SAMAJME AAYEGA*
DUNIYA ME SAB SE PEHLA INSAAN OR PAIGAMBAR ADAM AS AASMAAN SE ZAMEEN PAR AAJ KE SRILANKA ME UTREY THEY US JAGAH KO AAJ ADAM PEEK KE NAAM SE JANA JATA HE, US WAQT SRILANKA OR BHARAT AFRICA KHAND KA HISSA THA PAR JAB BHARAT OR SRILANKA AFRICA SE ALAG HOKAR ASIA KE LADAKH KI TARAF TAKRAYA TO HIMALAY PARVAT KA NIRMAN HUVA OR YE AAJ KE SCINCE SE BHI SAABIT HE
*DUNIYA ME SAB SE PEHLE INSAAN PAIGAMBAR ADAM AS, AASMAAN SE ZAMEEN PAR UTREY, US KE BAAD LAKHO HAZARO SAALO TAK BAHOT SAARE PAIGAMBAR JAISE KE NOOH AS, IBRAHIM AS, MUSA AS, ESSA AS, AATEY RAHE OR LOGO KO SAMJHATE RAHE KE US ALLAH KI IBADAT KARO JISNE ZAMEEN AASMAAN SURAJ CHAND INSAAN JANWAR OR IS SHRISHTI KO BANAYA, Q K PAIGAMBAR KA KAAM ALLAH KA PAIGAM SANDESH PAHUCHANA HOTA THA PAR PAIGAMBAR KE DUNIYA SE CHALE JAANE KE KUCH SAAL BAAD LOG FIR SE GUMRAH HO JATEY THEY OR ALLAH KI JAGAH PAIGAMBAR, INSAAN, OR JANWAR KI MURTI BANAKAR OR AAG SURAJ CHAND DHIRTI KI PUJA OR PARASTISH KARNE LAGTE THEY OR ALLAH KI BHEJI HUVI KITAB ME ULAT FAIR OR MIXING CHEDCHAAD KARTE REHTE THEY, PAR JAB ALLAH NE DUNIYA KE SAB SE AAKHRI PAIGAMBAR MOHAMMAD SAW, KO LOGO KO SAMJHANE KE LIYE BHEJA TO EK AISI KITAB QUR'AN KE SATH BHEJA JISKO QAYAMAT TAK LOGO KO MU JABANI YAAD KARKE APNE DIL OR DIMAG ME MEHFOOZ KARNE KA HUKM DIYA JISSE LOG US KITAB QUR'AN ME PEHLE KE LOGO KI TARAH ULAT FAIR MIXING CHEDCHAAD OR CHANGES NAA KAR SAKEY OR JAB TAK DUNIYA KA WAJOOD HE TAB TAK LOGO TAK SAHI OR SACCHI QUR'AN PAHOCHE OR LOG US ALLAH KI IBADAT KAREY JISNEY ZAMEEN AASMAAN SURAJ CHAND INSAAN JANWAR OR IS SHRISHTI KO BANAYA*
*KUCH LOG IS GALAT FEHMI ME HE KE ISLAM DHIRM PAIGAMBAR MOHAMMAD SAW, KE JAMANE ME AAYA THA JAB KE PAIGAMBAR MOHAMMAD SAW, SE PEHLE LAKHO HAZARO SAAL PEHLE BAHOT SAARE PAIGAMBAR AAKAR GAYE THEY OR SABHI PAIGAMBAR KA EK HI PAIGAM SANDESH THA KE ALLAH EK HE,* *ALLAH KA NA KOI BETA HE, OR NA KOI BHAI, OR ALLAH KE ALAVA KISIKI BHI IBADAT KARNA GUNAH PAAP HE*
*MSG BAHOT BADA HO RAHA HE IS LIYE ISLAM KI OR JAANKAARI KE LIYE NICHE DIYE HUVE LINK PAR CLIK KAREY.*
th-cam.com/video/ret8LrReCtQ/w-d-xo.html ..
Is Mehrgarh older than Rakhigarhi .
Yes it is
Actually birrhana is much older...close to 7000-8000bc.
For those of you who are interested in the people, here is the book (don't get caught up in the pots, pans, and bricks): www.amazon.com/Who-Are-How-Got-Here/dp/110187032X