Hand Winching 4x4 - Hand Winch vs Hi Lift Jack - Which Is Best? - ESSENTIAL SELF RECOVERY TECHNIQUES
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- Have you ever wanted to know which manual winching technique is best? Is an electric winch really worth the extra money?
0:00 - Intro
0:35 - Hi-Lift Jack Winching Set-Up
2:38 - Hi-Lift Jack Winching
6:00 - Hand Winch Winching Set-Up
7:36 - Hand Winch Winching
8:57 - Hi-Lift Jack Review (Price and Use)
9:52 - Hand Winch Review (Price, and Use)
10:10 - Hi-Lift Jack Review (Weight Considerations)
10:25 - Hand Winch Review (Weight Considerations)
10:36 - Final Thoughts - Which Is Best?
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#4wd #4wd247 #recovery #winching
Off road self-recovery techniques: Hand Winch (Tirfor style) vs. Hi-Lift Jack Winch - A video showing you two different manual hand winching methods for 4x4 off-road vehicle recovery.
1. The traditional Hi Lift Jack - the video will show you how to set your Hi Lift Jack up for continuous winching purposes. For comparison: Each stroke = 25mm movement, requires 80.5kg (177lbs) hand force for its rated winching capacity of 2268kg (4990lbs).
2. Traditional Hand Winch (a.k.a. Wire Rope Hoist Puller) - video will show you how to set the Hand Winch up for effective winching. For comparison: Each stroke = 30mm movement, requires 44.6kg (98.2lbs) hand force for its rated winching capacity of 1600kg (3520lbs).
The video will look into depth the equipment, techniques, gear, limitations, cost and weight. Watch to see which one is best!
*Note: vehicle in video was not actually bogged, but was used for demonstration purposes only.
The Hi-Lift Jack is a very useful 4x4 off-road recovery and multi-purpose tool. It can be useful in situations where a 4wd vehicle may have to be: winched, lifted, turned around on a tight track etc. It can also be used a multi-purpose tool for: spreading, clamping, reseting a bead on a vehicle's tyre, using the removable pole/handle as an extension pole for extra leverage on a wrench or ring spanner etc. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Brilliant instructional video, I've decided I won't buy a Nissan as it gets stuck to easy.
donk! read the description!
@@DormantIdeasNIQ sorry can't find in the description where it states snowflakes get easily offended, by a joke.
Lol I take the pathfinder over a 4Runner
The ex-CEO of Nissan always knows a way to get out.
@@Elaba_ LOL
Highlift can spread a door , winch a vehicle , lift a vehicle , compress - act as a clamp. You can use that bar as a pry bar or splint .
I have been curious about hand winches for some years now but I've never used a farm jack either. Now your video has convinced me to get a hand winch for my new 4x4, as I didn't actually need the current winch on my 1st 4x4 triton.
Much appreciated, thank you very much for this great video!!!
Great to hear!
I think the Hi-Lift Jack is more versatile because it can also be used as a jack , a spreader , a comealong etc. It may be slower , but it does a lot more.
Very true. It's hard to beat the power and versatility of a Hi-Lift Jack.
Also something to consider is the available accessories and vehicle mounts available for the hi-lift. Definitely the way to go for an offroad vehicle
agreed
dont forget the possibility of a smack to the face if you dont get the hi-lift clicked in each stroke. LOL.
@@NJSInstructional what you are not thinking about is how do you use a high lift jack when there are no jack points? Bottle jack and hand winch is a solution for vehicles with no jack points
In the late 70`s I was faced with a similar problem only I became bogged in a mangrove near Cossack WA . I tried the high lift which didn`t take long to become clogged & unworkable ,the tirfor cable laying in mud just dragged it in & oozed it out but as long as the anchor ( buy now 7 mangrove trees)held . My thoughts are reliablity ,hand winch , versatility Hi-lift,usability 12,000lb electric .
I used my hilift one time to get my truck spun around 180 in snowy deep soft muddy ruts I wasn’t stuck but was between the stuck winch vehicles that were buried. Very effective but a lot of work. Once my truck was turned around we used it and winches to recover the other three stuck trucks.
This was excellent. Thank you.
Excellent tutorial! I appreciate the sped up shots and seeing the vehicle move. After seeing both of these methods...Electric vehicle mounted winch all the way! Especially when he talked about price
Glad you liked it!
Excellent! I'd always wondered how the 2 compared. Great video thanks from Boise, Idaho
Useful info - thanks!
Great video, clear explanation, no trap music blaring, nice.
As is so often the case a hi-lift is a jack of all trades but a master of none. It can do a lot but it's tricky (sometimes outright dangerous) when doing so. If payload is an issue preventing you from taking multiple tools, go for the hi-lift, otherwise save yourself the hassle and get the tool specifically designed for the task (even though it might only do that one task)
I love this! Thank You for the info!
Glad it was helpful!
Nice comparison. Each person will need to evaluate their own gear needs. I preferred HiLift because it’s like a Swiss Army knife, lots of uses.
I have and carry both. All depends on the situation, terrain and requirement at the time.
Congrats, very clear and informative
Glad it was helpful!
Both have there strong points so l carry both plus extra chain,straps ect. But my favorite is two sets of snow chains put them on an most times you are out!
THANK YOY, GREAT video.
REALLY APPRECIATED.
10/10.
APPRECIATE the Effort.
WELL done.
Thanks again.
Glad it helped!
I have used both in real life.
First I had to pull my Iveco 40-10 out of the mud with the high lift.
It worked but took a looong time, was fiddly and sucked.
I then got the handwinch and a block to double power.
Much, much easier and lots quicker.
I reserve the high lift for its intended purpose to lift and the winch for its intended purpose to winch..but in an emergency it can be done with the Jack..
“More power” puller. Look it up. Good video
I used a hi lift setup to rip trees with roots out of the ground successfully... Lot of power and versatile..
More power than most people realise when something goes wrong!
A very informative video!
Thanks for the video! Although the hi lift can be used as a winch, that manual winch is far superior for that purpose. I am usually on my own when off roading, so the best thing is to have both, and you are covered!
Good video. Only comment is many people carry a high lift anyway so you need to weigh up how often you are likely to need winching. Once in a blue moon, the jack is more universal but a compromise. More regularly, then a dedicated winch.
I like the last recovery tools
Thanks man it's safely but long process
Excellent video. For me, it's all about safety first, then weight/space. Hi-Lifts scare me a bit, but then I've never been properly trained how to use them.
Cheers, thank you.
Very helpful thank you
Nice demonstration
Well explained.
Cheers Famo59 👍🍻🤓⛏
Glad it helped
A little recovery safety here. I would either replace the hook on the cable or go with soft shackles(so the gate closes), and it's a good practice to set the open side of the hook up so if it slips or breaks it will send the cable/chain into the ground rather than into the air.
I've never seen a manual winch like that before. I'd consider getting one if I didn't already need the Hi-Lift as a jack anyway. I might look into getting one for other vehicles that don't need a Hi-Lift.
During my logging days we used a tirfor to assist a bogged Valmet forwarder stuck in a peat bog every tool has its uses depends how extreme the problem.
thank you sir
Excellent instructions and great video one question where did you buy your hijack and all the attachments
I have the hand winch ( grip hoist here in the states) its rated for about 10,000 lbs dead lifting, for rolling stock its out the roof in capacity, it has a 5/8 diameter cable about 75 feet long. With the grip hoist I used it to gently raise a 75 foot wind turbine tower...it is so precise and so easy to control as the tower swings up on its center of gravity...something a electric winch cant do
Nice. Good to hear of another way to use it. Cheers.
I have used High Lift to jack up buried vehicles and throw logs under the wheels, then winch them out backwards. When your in the mud and rain and the winch is slipping it could make a decent boat anchor, good day mate
A friendly tip to anyone that jacks/lifts from the bumper or frame...use a ratchet straps or other means to sling the axle to the frame. This will allow you to lift the vehicle without all the axle droop. Less lifting to get the wheels off the ground.
@@jerome4995 That's a Top Gear Top Tip!! Really, great info. I'll remember it.
Great how to.
Its horses for courses.
I have both, as i also use the Tirfor winch for tree work while the highlift is best for jacking.
Rigs not bogged.... the Hand winch is bearly even trying. I carry both plus electric winch on front. Hand winch is hands down best thing Ive bought. Not only for winching rigs out but also to hold rig from roll over while useing electric winch to pull forward, to drag ass of truck sideways away from trees etc and not to mention the amount of stumps I've pulled out of backyards with it, used to guide trees when cutting down, other bonus is you can use it with any think, throw it in a m8s rig when with them throw it in the back of a Side by Side, etc
Good demonstration. Very well explained.
Have used the tirfor many times when a 4x4 has been sitting on its axles, you have to be careful when using either, I winched an original jeep out of a deep hole once, and didn't realise that I was pulling the jeep, but not the front axle. Ripped it right off.
I dunno man, I haven't seen a manual winch like that before, and now that I look, the only comparable I see is the T532D from Tractel and its $3k usd. I'd love to have a winch like that though. .. and great video , thanks !
In the US the second tool he uses is called a grip hoist. It is VERY different from a hand winch and way more expensive.
The grip hoist is a wire/cable puller or hand winch from Tractel. It's somewhat the gold standard, but there are many other wire/cable pullers available. While we use the Grip Hoist ones in local trail building organizations, my Jet one (off amazon) looks just like his T-Rex, and is very close to one of the old Tractel models, including the tough lock/unlock mechanism. "Come-alongs" OTOH tend to be a lot cheaper, but a lot simpler with only one mechanism to keep it from rolling back, and much more limited lengths. And then there are a bunch between the two things, like expensive come-alongs that are much beefier, and rope pullers that are somewhere between the two, some giving longer lengths and "unlimited pull lengths" like the 1500lbs rated one I bought (massaman?). The fancy grip hoists from Tractel are great and reliable, but you're right that they can cost a lot.
We call this kind of handwinch a tir fort. They have their purposes, but working in the mud isnt amongst them. They need to be rather clean and greased or they get stuck, and the cable needs to be in pretty good condition as well. That is why they suck for 4x4 recovery. The high lift works a lot better in the mud and is easy to clean. A long chain is heavy and always to long or to short. A short chain and a few tow straps/ ropes and shackles are more versatile and far less heavy.
My Tirfor winch seems to work fine in the mud. They are awesome for 4x4 recovery. They pull in any direction and can be swapped between vehicles.
@@anthony9thompson, we thougth so as well. The cable pulls in sand, clay,.... that sticks to the oil. You end up with some kind of concrete inside that, in the end blocks the system. If you keep pulling the lever with a jamming system (because of a crud or a wrong wire) you bend the inside and parts are more expensive then a new wire hoist. We started using manual drum winches for side winching or rear winching or as spare and they work better and are cheaper.
Even if the hand winch is lighter and quicker, you still need the high lift jack as well. More versatile better made and the climbing pin jack will still be going when that hand winch is in the bin. If you buy the extras for the high lift jack it dose 10x more it pushes as well as pulls and lifts, you can even split logs if you want too. It’s not just a jack or winch it’s more like a Swiss Army knife of jacks. It’s the jack all the way for me enough said.
that hand winch (tirfor type) is probably the most powerful man powered tool. I have one that was used in underground mining and I can tell you the only limit it has is the cable.
Don't know why you would try and compare these two . as you said anything to get you out of bog .
but i used / have used both these & both are very handy things for what they are designed for I.E lifting & pulling
can winch anything from any direction /angle ~ farm , work or play .
I would prefer the hand winch option for the recovery. But if the user is also have other applications for the jack, then the choice for the jack maybe good for many household applications.
You need to have a jack anyways, so you may as well take the Hi-Lift because it doubles as a Come-Along in case your main winch malfunctions.
what's the costs and time to do the winch job when you are stuck on both diff's compared to a front or rear mount winch taking in to account the high lift is multi purpose. the key to four wheel driving is in the setup. i do like the video very well set up for beginners.
Agree, however, if you dont have an electric winch, both these tools will get you out of trouble...
Here in Mexico the manual winch is used to haul heavy machinery
Have a link to the yellow connecting link for continuous winching?
After watching your video, I agree that if all your doing is winching, the hand winch works better. But how does the hand winch do at jacking up a trailer or a truck? Maybe it's best to have both if your going out into the dessert where you might get stuck or have your tire punctured by a sharp rock!
In all reality, if you plan on going places where you will need either, you should have both. Ive gotten myself ouf of jams with a regular old come along, and using a jack as a winch. some the quickest recoveriesive done with a high lift by jacking the rear up by the hitch as high as needed, and shoving the truck off the jack onto more solid ground or out of the ruts.
Indeed, the Hi-Lift is a very versatile tool.
A further thing to consider.
The steel strands of a wire rope are mostly subjected to tensile forces. The links of a chain are subject to both tensile and shear forces. A chain is probably more likely to fail catastrophically and without warning than a wire rope would. This was recognised back in the early days of deep mining and saw the use of haul chain replaced with wire rope.
That's true for a true wire-wound winch, but these cables have a solid core. They can't be replaced for anything less because the 'clutch' clamps wire between two hemispherical blocks. A true wire-wound cable would deform. A solid cable can still let go without splintering, unlike wires, since the outer wires have more stretch. It'd be contained though. I remember doing a calculation, if you were to use a block on these Tirfors, the block has to be 25cm? Maybe it was 28cm... for a 2.5cm cable so not to permanently deform the solid core....The block would weigh 25kg! Cable maintenance is of the highest order with these winches!
@@andrewx86x
Thats good info.
AWESOME!!!
I got tired just watching you. Great information. Thanks.
That Hi lift method is almost exactly the same way we strain up fences
Ill take the ha and wench any day. But the hi lift is good in a pinch. Chain is always 1 link away from an accident.
But wire rope is nasty if it breaks. 2 safety blankets are a must.
👌
Most seem to be commenting about the high lift being more versatile, true , but wasn’t the point of the video. The tirfor(hand winch he calls it) is way better for recovery! You are only limited to how much cable you are carrying! Can pull a mile if ya have the cable!
Hello why did you put that orange blanke on the rope? 7:35
I see no need to choose between and have both. Failure to gear up is failure to prepare and wrecker bills aren't cheap.
The Tirfor style grip hoist are magnificent. Second (tough and very simple) are Wyeth-Scott pullers but if you have the money you want a Tirfor. Manual pullers are extremely useful for many tasks besides extrication and can aid extrication by holding snatch blocks where desired.
With sufficient manual pullers one doesn't need an electric winch but they're great mounted in or on truck beds for loading trailers and other tasks. (The main reason winches are mounted up front is to get them out of the way, tow truck operators put them in back as do I.)
I am so much love
40+ years 4x4 in the NT = I would have both .
Both can do things the other can't. I have both for work with trees, but if i had to choose, Hilift for weight. Cheers
Thanks, young feller, both were well demonstrated, however like you I preferred the hand winch. All vehicles will already have a bottle-jack or must have plus a steel base-plate. If, as an older person [70 years] my Subaru Discovery needs some assist out of a bog, then its the hand winch for me. We all know that 70-year-olds aren't stupid anymore especially when it comes to trying an unfamiliar track or paddock situation "just don't go there" full stop. I have found this to be the most sensible alternative. My prior vehicle was an Isuzu Rodeo 4WD, nothing could bog it, strange to say, though, understanding that I wouldn't drive into a shitters ditch situation. I used to be a devil may care young rooster or a bullet-proof young kind of bloke, I would purposely drive into bog-holes and such-like, though never no more.
Thanks for the feedback William. I agree with you, the hand winch is the superior winching method of the two. The Hi Lift however is more versatile. Cheers
You should have included the Bogout system with this group
So, an electric winch and a hi-lift jack gives you the best of all worlds. Got it. VBG
The vehicle in the example is not stuck?
Thanks for sharing the video.
A much as I agree with the final conclusion, I found the hlift jack setup to be odd.
The jack attachment is designed to take the chain, with the jacking body attached with a shackle. (flip the whole unit the other way round)
I really don't know why you used the wheel hook jack attachment, it just made it more fiddly and less secure, also added an extra unneeded cost.
Thanks AKA Nathan for your feedback. I agree, the Hi-Lift method is odd, but I guess if you don't have a hand winch and you find yourself in trouble than it will get you unstuck... Not sure if you are referring to the nose of the Hi-Lift or the JackMate?
You're supposed to put the chain in that slot right in the middle of the Jackmate. It's a built-in link lock.
Safety First! - Face open hooks ALWAYS upwards!
In Australian videos I’ve only seen Chinese knock offs of the Hi Lift. Are real Hi Lifts available in Australia?
For that anchor chain; is there a reason you use the second last hole rather than the last for the shackle?
Good pick-up. I attached the hammer lock (chain link) to the second from bottom hole on the hi-lift jack. This allows me to still attach the base of the hi-lift jack without needing to remove the hammer lock.
I understand how a widowmaker works, very well. Imagine my surprise learning it could be used as a winch! That settles it, still never going to have one.
Moral of the story is get an electric winch.....
I second this. Then your not directly in the way of the cable pull. Just toss the hood up and put a recovery blanket on the line and your out. And you can get a budget electric winch or a used winch for the price of that hand winch.
a traditional electric winch is useless if you are by yourself and you want to winch yourself from behind.
@@Rust2Roks Nope. There are ways to use a snatch block for a reverse pull.
electric winch prefered but hand winch or high lift as aback up is a good idea.
Classic Jeeple there are videos that show how to do just that, and I’ve tested some of what they showed me in real situations.
You absolutely can winch backwards.
I’ll take the hand winch
I'm sorry but this is what came up in top five of price of Hilyft jacks so I was wondering what the price ranges are and what's one's are two cheap to even consider because of failure
I would only recommend the genuine Hi-Lift Jack brand only. Since this video, I have replaced my high-lift jack with the genuine Hi-Lift Jack...
the trifor winch isnt very popular in the US. One of the only ones i could find from a US supplier is $2000USD and pulls 8k lbs. The more popular option here other than a powered winch is whats referred to as the come-along. You can get one of those here in the US for around $50USD with 8k lb rating. the down side is the length of the cable, which is usually 20ft or less.
Can you add a longer cable to a come-a-long?
The More Power Puller says 2 tons on it, but will grenade any other come along. If you are going to compare come along, compare the 5/16 MPP against the 5/16 Tirfor style. You need to look into Jet Grip Pullers, not rated for overhead lifting, but are griphoist/tirfor style, and very affordable. Tirfor style is wonderful magic, but more power Pullers are even in pawn shops here. On ee bay I have gotten three tirfor. First was 3/4 ton, then two of the big ones 3.2 ton. Then I found three of the other size, Tirfor original at scrap yard for seven dollars. All had cables. TU 28 and TU 17, if I'm correct, use 7/16 cables. But, a MPP is in my vehicle daily. It won't sting so bad if stolen. And there is a hi lift. Steel bumpers. Winch. I'm not an off roader, but if I'm welding a cattle lot two miles off the road in a wet area, I can get in a bad way sometimes. Crew cab 4x4 one ton diesel welding trucks are heavy. But, I usually have extraction before injection. Like the last job, kept a big 4x4 tractor parked nearby.
High lift jack as we call it dead man in east Africa (Tanzania) it proved to be one hell of might power in between of no where.
Abdul Hamid they work great if they are used correctly if they are used wrong then they can do damage
In my opinion I think you should have put the safety blanket on the tree strap as it will be stretched and act like a rubber band. If the chain would break the spaces in the links will take the energy that was stored in it out of it and it will just go slack. Am I correct? Thank you.
Chains do not require a safety blanket. The strap...not likely. The way it appears to be wrapped (and should be wrapped) it will not leave the tree as it is wrapped on itself. If it did, there is no shackle to worry about anyway. The only time I'd be concerned is using it in a straight pull from vehicle to operator.
@@Frontseat_Driving 👍👍👍👍👍😀
If I had to pick a High-Lift _OR_ Hand Winch _OR_ Bumper Winch (electric, hydraulic, or PTO), hands down it'd be a High-Lift. No contest.
Hi lift all the way!!! More versatile!! End of story! Great vid though!! Thx
T Max e’ vai sicuro! 👍
Hi mate,could I replace. the wire cable with synthetic rope?
Hi Rob, unfortunately you can't. The steel wire is 11mm in diameter making it thicker than even regular electric steel winch cable. Because it is so thick and heavy (as there are two locking jaws in the winch) it makes it difficult to handle and bend. It would be difficult to use a snatch block with this cable. However, if you could use synthetic rope that would make this winch much better.
Thanks for asking
This was my question also.
If you can't do it with synth I just don't want it! Maybe someday they'll improve it?
CJ JENSON They can't. Ever. Metal jaws inside the case of the manual winch must "eat" 11 mm steel cable. A rope would get squashed and teared.
I'd say pick the lift first, and the winch second. Anyway having both is better than any single one.
When I started offroading I had a hand winch taken from the trailer for my dad's small boat, and not much else.
Also, I don't like using chains. They can snap and kill you. Textile straps are safer.
Eh, it might be slightly fiddlier to winch with a high lift but it's way harder to jack with a winch... High lift is more versatile, and everyone should carry a drag chain anyway so that doesn't count towards the weight.
Just buy a Toyota you don't need anything because you won't get stuck
how much does that handwinch cost?
How many years has it needs?! 🤔
What's the reason for using the chain instead of another snatch rope?
Snatch rope is designed to stretch whereas chain doesn't. It is also much easier to continuous winch with chain as well as adjust the length eg. between the vehicle and tree anchor.
Looks like a warm climate tool. I would't want to use this in below 0 weather. Too many moving parts to remember. The yellow one would be more conducive to foul weather.
id like to know the strokes per ft pulled that would be the real comparison
Hi Jake, with the Hi Lift every one stroke is 25mm or 1" of movement. The hand force required at it's full rated capacity of 4990lbs (2268kg) is 177lb (80.5kg). With the Hand Winch, one stroke (considered one push and pull motion) is 60mm. The hand force required at it's full rated capacity of 3520lb (1600kg) is 98.2lb (44.6kg). Hand winch requires less force for more cable travel, however, it has a lower rated capacity...
Anything is better. Electric winch, pulley hand puller , block and tackle with rope, trailer crank winch, or just find another buddy to help push. :)
Y would U secure at the JACK not the archer ?
Hi-Lift is much better tool since it can do more than just winch.
What brand “hand winch “ is that?
It's a T-Max
The hi lift is the slower option as a winch, but it is a jack & the winch is not. All rounder the hi lift is the better option!
Yes, a very versatile tool indeed!
I assume the vehicle should be left in Neutral while winching, correct?
In this case, on flat ground, yes.
did you see how he hooked it with the hand winch. hook down safety latch not engaged 😬
Good video for winching, but bad comparison. The hand winch is a one trick pony, where the Hi-Lift Jack works for many functions, like jacking and rescuing
Cheers, thank you.
The vehicles in these videos are always, at least the 1/2 dozen I've seen, are just barely stuck if at all. Lockers and a shovel would solve most of these problems.