there's a couple in this video's comments that need to understand that too, most here are chill which I really wanna stress, but the "this person BAD and my guy GOOD" stuff is tiresome in any amount It's possible to criticize someone without everything being a GOTCHA moment
Sometimes I dislike how people insinuate that you must like GT or Super. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I for one really like that we have so much Dragon Ball to enjoy, no matter the continuity 👍🏻
I love GT due to nostalgia (granted, I got the Blue Water dub in my country which is a much better English dubbing imo, especially the intro) and Super for reviving my nostalgia. Both are good. Both are even sometimes great.
I couldn’t said it better myself I like super better than gt but I don’t think gt is the worst thing ever I never thought gt wasn’t really that bad I like both series that changed a little over time because people would just not recognize bad plot holes and plot in gt they just say gt is better just cause without giving a explanation i agree super is far from perfect is it peak it’s getting there, there’s so many things in super I can’t stand. Gokus character in super and gt is just fine it’s just because people just prefer gt just because he’s a better version of z goku which and the same can be said with super goku there only argument is he never knew what a kiss was and that’s stupid considering he never ever mention a kiss besides filler or just the dub. People would just use that as a argument to bash him and don’t watch the series. I also think dbs vegeta is a better character and has far better progression than gt vegeta anyway I’m ramping on to much I completely agree with your comment and everyone should just enjoy,
(Personally) I like almost everything DB related Dragonball, Z, GT, Super, Super heroes YT videos, even some fanmade projects like multiverse and DBZ: Abridged. the only DB thing I disliked was the Live action. But its seems that the overall community of DB is a choose your side. full of slander and hate for each other.... I love this franchise, but unfortunately I cannot say the same for the community.
Very much so. I wish either would go ahead and do that massive review of Z (in long form) because I can appreciate both points of view. Scholar's demeanor & sense of sarcasm is my personal favorite out of all the channels that talk about DragonBall (every facet of the series) but I do respect all of these people and their opinions.
I like that you take things like these with a wider perspective, understanding his parts, yet giving your own without being disrespectful. I personally disagree with a lot of stuff with Mark, but I see people being way more extra about it... 💀
Honestly, Vegeta using the machine to transform isn’t cheating. Especially with Majin Vegeta being a thing. Vegeta using the machine to reach Super Saiyan 4 is him growing and maturing. One he had to get Bulma to love him and stay with him. That is a grind in on its own. Two, he put his pride aside and asked her for help. He actually asked for help. Vegeta, put himself aside to save the Earth, a place he loved with people on it that he loved. He was so angry that he would have to lose another home world, that is showing how much he cares. So him accepting help to transform to his most powerful form to actually fuse instead of taking Omega on himself, shows he had stopped wanting to be number 1 and started being a responsible man that cared for others. Cheating no. Accepting that others come before your pride, that was Vegeta’s biggest challenge ever. And people love those moments when he has shown that in the past, when he went after Cell because of Trunks. Even him reach Blue Evolution. SSJ4 Vegeta is a full power Vegeta with a full mind and spirit.
This was beautifully put. Specially because his lack of desire to be "number 1" immediately connects with the end of Buu saga, which is when Vegeta acknowledged Goku as "number 1" in the best example of character growth he had, which in turn got to evolve even further in GT.
@@aikou2886 for those who must know, the Xenoverse 2 GT Vegeta is not the GT Vegeta we know. It is mainly game developers not understanding the character and just trying to make money. As Xenoverse 2, at least the English dub GT Vegeta is going on about being number 1 again. The little pride he has because he is going to save Goku for once is nice, but his weird competitiveness out of no where is just poor judgment on a game developers perspective. I watched the sub of Vegeta fighting Omega, just to make sure he was the same. He was actually happy to accept the help of the others, so they could protect the Earth. He would of been like no I got this on my own wait your turn if he didn’t grow and mature. He even asks Goku for power. Now that is a Vegeta I believe can be one of the strongest protectors of Earth.
Keep up the Grand Work Scholar! Despite its flaws (like everything else in life), GT, for me, is a satisfying conclusion to the DB anime's original broadcast era, and it has soul and passion. It's the grand, final part of the original DB anime trilogy.
@@SaiyanScholar A lot of that is thanks to you I think. I used to hate GT too but you got me thinking about it a lot of times and I'm really grateful for that. Maybe otherwise I never would have given it a second chance like all things should get.
I was expecting a more petty rebuttal, but I was very engaged with the discourse and found myself agreeing with your observations on Mark's conclusion. There's a fundamental reason why series needs "filler", as Mark calls it - these down beats provide respite to build up for the climaxes. There can be no payoff if you don't allow time to invest in characters doing normal things and interacting. You can't just skip to the next dragon ball or the next fight scene and have the same emotional impact.
The placement of Great Ape is important in the Baby Saga for an additional reason: you see, in the Saiyan vs Tuffle war, both sides were equal with neither gaining the advantage, however this changed when the full moon of Plant Plant/Vegeta comes play as it only appears once every several years. This let the Saiyans transform into Great Apes which was ultimately was the deciding factor in this back and forth war. The Great Ape carries this theme of history repeating itself and Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Golden Great Ape Baby is a challenge of who could take that deciding factor from the last conflict and use it better in this new conflict, to which Goku was able to win the challenge with Super Saiyan 4 as he wasn’t tied down by anything and was strengthened by his love for his friends and family, where as Baby was only able to achieve Golden Great Ape and that’s it because of his hatred inhibiting him and tying him down.
Honestly his comment about the shadow dragons having no deeper motivation for being evil is funny to me because that's how basically every Dragon Ball villain is. Just about every Dragon Ball villain in super Z the original and GT are just evil for the sake of evil. Is rather hypocritical to hate on GT's villains for this one almost every villain in the franchises this way.
I noticed that most who hate on GT never actually watched the og, as most DBZ fans. They only like to pretend og is the shit bcs of its reputation. While GT doesnt compare to the og, the first saga resembles the og a lot, an adventure style arc, while later arcs would resemble Z more, which most fans prefer coincidentally. Basically GT haters just want an another Z, but as someone who had watched DB and loves it, i love the black star saga, it felt like it went back to its original roots
@@sayanorasonic I honestly have a similar feeling I really love the Black Star Dragon Ball Ark we get to see all these new weird planets that we never got to explore before. I've seen people argue that these planets are pointless because they don't really come back but the different locations in the original Dragon Ball never came back either that doesn't make them pointless at all like when was the last time we saw Android 8 or those two Indian guys at the foot of corns Tower? Just cuz we don't see them anymore doesn't mean that they were pointless Editions
@@sayanorasonic Eh...a lot who do dislikeit still watched the og though and Mark obviously watched the og. No they don't pretend, they see that it's actually pretty good. Yet the execution of the first saga was still pretty bad. How is it a coincidence? The only GT arc that could be argued that most consider good is the baby saga but other then that even the later arcs are still disliked overall. So you are assuming stuff about GT haters? No they want something that makes sense and is welll written too. You can love the back star saga, that doesn't make it good though, same with liking some sonic games for example.
"Bulma making a blitz wave machine in minutes is utterly ridiculous" She made a time machine in the middle of an apocalyse. Dont care if you think Bulma's bullshit inventions are bullshit, if you accept the time machine's existence (and most people do) then you're morally obligated to accept everything else she pulls out her ass
But how would Bulma know what Blutz waves are? Let alone make a machine in mere minutes to stop SSj4 Goku? That’s the issue here. It’s not the fact that she made the machine at all it’s that she did it with no time flat
I strongly agree That's how it should be done. Everyone can share their opinions without attacking the other ones as if life itself depends on one specific opinion 👉🏻👈🏻
I always disliked the argument of: "It's dumb they just "forgot" the Black Star Dragon Balls were there." I mean, in this entire Dragon Ball Series, we have a character like Piccolo that regularly forgets what powers he has like stretchy arms and turn giant, which he had to be reminded by Krillin that he can turn giant... Like, c'mon, how do you forget that power. And then there's Kami and Piccolo that DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THEIR OWN NAME...
I would say "mixed ideas, mixed execution", which isn't bad. Doing the adventure thing was mostly a bad idea, and slowed the pacing to a crawl so much they had to abandon it immediately. Him becoming a kid was unnecessary since we had Pan and Bra, and Goten and Trunks, if anything, they could have been the veterans and we could have developed the young characters again. As far as mixed execution, SSj4, Gogeta, and Kamehameha x10 was cool, but the decision to oversaturate everything, as well as most of the other stuff, we all know is mixed.
@@Goblin_Hands It wasn't a bad idea , it doesn't come with a bad pacing but it had bad pacing . They abandoned it because it got pretty much rejected reasonably . They wanted Goku to still be at the centre that's why they made him a kid to let him work his way through in that arc , if he was an adult it'd called worse if he just stood by the side or took the lead and ended things anticlimactically . An og dragon ball like adventure at this point with stakes like this just wouldn't work with Goku being an adult , it barely passes with him getting nerfed as a kid . I just think if the pacing was better with some plot polishing , both the arc and kid form could've worked well . And after seeing how they introduced Ssj4 , i can't complain much about the kid form cuz it made Ssj4 even more awesome . Yes the execution was mixed .
@@humanman9920 Well, maybe it's the Super in me that's just tired of seeing Goku as the protagonist every time. I liked him best in the Cell/Buu arc where everyone else had a chance to fight and he came later. In GT and Super, it's just Goku, Goku, Goku, and more Goku. We didn't even see Gotenks or Gohan fight (barely).
When i got older I saw the Super 17 Saga as a tribute to Dragon Ball's history since we saw every deceased villain cameo at least once. But, like you said, Frieza and Cell got their respect due to being the two most iconic villains from the original series. It was perfect that they placed this arc right before the Shadow Dragons saga since that happened due with consequences from misusing the dragon balls. Whether or not, you agree with how it was executed, no one can deny that was a fantastic way to originally end the series.
Super 17 also a respectful nod to the android arc, and added something new to it, since it was about androids fusing to become stronger. Compare to Dragonball super version, were just because you train as an android, you have barely any lack of potential while being the only Victor in the actual battle royale to death, because the main character can win a single fight in the anime.
@@lost.name636brother9a nod, or an attempt at pandering? GT fans need to rewatch it with someone who hasn’t seen it and try to pretend it’s still good.
I want to add some stuff to the criticism. Behold it is LONG! Reminder, Pilaf next to Bulma is the most experienced in stuff related to Dragon Ball lore. Just like he found out about the existence of Dragon Balls and how to find them, and just like how he found the Rice Cooker of King Piccolo, he would logically find clues or rationalize that there could be a hidden set of Dragon Balls in the Realm of God. You know, the guy who created the Dragon Balls. People being chilled despite the universe being in danger has been explained in the Japanese version with characters acknowledging that they can move to another planet if things go out of hand. But they would rather not abandon their homes which is why they are calm. They have plan B if things don't work out. That is why Vegeta was willing to send off Goten and Trunks instead going himself as he thinks that the situation would be a good moment for them to get off their lazy butts. As far as we can assume, the regular Dragon Ball should not be able to bring back the Black Star Dragon Balls too earth because they exceed Dende's power. If that were that easy, how weak would the Dragon Balls feel like if you can just wish all of them to earth? The Namekian Dragon Balls won't be any help either because Goku can't use Instant Transmission. Even if he could the same logic should apply to them as Polunga couldn't bring Goku to earth because he didn't want to. The first mini arc was important to show the restrictions to Goku's powers and like you said how the team operates as well as their mindset. They can't be finding Dragon Balls in every episode, it would be illogical. Also it introduced Giru one of the MVPs in this arc. I think the show tried to make clear at times that not all issues need to be solved with violents, which is why many times the characters did silly things instead of just punching their way out. Also Goku accidentally blow away a volcano which shows that his new body makes it hard to get a hang with his power. It can be rationalize that Dr Mu found one Black Star Dragon Ball by chance and like Bulma used it to create a device to locate them which we in the story never see. The fact that Muchi Muchi talks about that his god told him about it makes it reasonable that he got the information from Dr Mu in some shape or form. Complaining about telepathy is like complaining that every character after the Tien Saga can fly despite non of them going to Crane School who developted that technique. The thing about Pan is that she went from looking down to Goku (literally) to looking up to him remembering "My grandpa is really the best" to the point she held on to his old gi and gifted it to her grandson who is also called Goku. There would be no benefit or reason for Baby to lay an egg in Vegeta because for one, time needs to pass before someone becomes a Tsufuru and everyone drank the holy water both on earth and on Planet Tsufuru. Kid Goku fights were the best. Before the Z part started, most the fights Goku took advantage on both his size and body to beat an enemy. He even used the environment to his advantage. In Z stuff like that were really rare. All fights depended on emotional stakes and choreography to hype you up. There was hardly any unique fighting style unless you count the movies with Broly. Most the fights felt like tennis matches as someone needed to transform to get an edge over the other character in battle. Meanwhile in GT, that didn't happen often as few characters were able to transform. I don't think the Super 17 arc being short is a good excuse to defend it. I feel the show did a lot of things to make it reasonable. Like Oob just one shotting General Rildo seems more reasonable than us getting a full fight with Gohan focusing how he can handle a threat like that. The characters were all useful and weren't useless eating screentime like in Revival of F where Frieza just chose not to intervene and the plot decided that Goku gets notified to come to earth to fight Frieza. Goku was trapped in hell and characters tried to free him. Vegeta was busy fightin Hell Fighter 17. Krillin and 18 were attacked by 17. Pan dispatched the Red Ribbon Army. Goten and Trunks handled Babidi's henchmen and 19. Compare that to the Z Fighters beat up Frieza Soldiers weaker than Master Roshi. Embarrassing. Piccolo got his ass kicked by someone at Dodoria's level. The show did a good job to explain, in the Japanese version, why 17 is chosen specifically as he has dormant power stronger than Cell. Which Cell? Since everyone in hell know each other, it has to be Perfect Cell. And Dr Gero stated that he could not find a way to make 17 access that power. That is why Dr Mu helped creating a new 17 that is strong enough to put a fight against Vegeta who stated "You have powered up beyond believe" thinking that is the regular 17. As for old 17, after Hell and Earth merged, he stated that he is overflowing with power indicating that his dormant power stronger than that of Cell is awakened just as the GT Perfect Files state (Perfect File II). Now you have these 17 stronger than Perfect Cell 17's merge which is not a simple addition like the dub makes you believe, you are getting Super 17 who exceeds the power of Oob and perhaps even an off screen Gotenks, we probably didn't see because Super 17 was just a gateaway to introduce the Shadow Dragon arc. I don't exactly remember the reason King Yemma could not release Goku from hell but powers far stronger of his were interfearing where the anime cut away to the Dragon Balls (cracking?). Either implying that the opening of hell is the cause or the negative energy of the Dragon Balls. I want to remind everyone that in hell there are machines meaning there are resources to build devices. And just because Hell Fighter 17 looks like 17 doesn't mean he doesn't have unique abilities to himself. He is basically DLC to upgrade the old model. What would be the point in making another exact copy? Super 17 was meant to me obedient to Dr Mu but 18 and Krillin managed to get through him allowing parts of the original 17 to pop out. Goku even stated after they won that the real 17 allowed them to beat him and that 18's words reached him. That suppose to showcase that there was more to Super 17 than being just a puppet of Dr Mu and it was done amazingly. "Throw some ki blasts" The irony when someone say this in a show criticized for spamming ki blasts all the time. Also adding to the Vegeta thing being unearned? God forbid the characters use a device set up several arcs prior and use it to save the world. God forbid Goku drink the holy water so he can awaken his power to fight King Piccolo which was just given to him in the manga. God forbid Krillin and Gohan get free power ups by having their potential unlocked by some old Namekian. What about Gohan waiting several hours until his hidden potential gets unlocked for the 3rd time? What about Vegeta letting his hidden powers awaken so he can Goku to kill him (despite Goku already being death)? Oh wait, those shows aren't GT. Vegeta is too prideful to fuse even if his family and friends are at danger. He would only use cheap tricks when the plot demands according to toriyama like abusing the Zenkai boost so he can turn into a Super Saiyan against final form Frieza who isn't even in his final form. Yeah, Goku managed to hold on the move from Omega while in Base form but it is clear that Goku got the adrenaline boost using every bit of his life force just to safe earth. Compare that to Dragon Ball Super where he broke his arms using a Kamehameha to overpower murged Zamas and permanently scaring him, then following that up with a Kaioken without suffering life threatening damage. Completely different scenes. Living beings get the most powerful when their loved ones are in danger and this scene did a great way showing it. Goku gave up his life in exchance to give earth a few more minutes and enough time for Vegeta requesting the others to escape from earth. It is heavily implied Goku traded off his life to stop Omega's 1 attack before getting the offer to take full responsibility for the Dragon Balls and gather power for the Genkidama. It was an amazing way to end Dragon Ball. Non of the Dragon Ball arcs can come close to this. I want to point out that Goten wanted to buy time a second time for Goku and Vegeta to fuse but Gohan prevented him that it would just make the situation worse now that Omega knows how dangerious fusion is. The reason they are involved in the final fight then is because Vegeta was not a Super Saiyan 4 anymore and on the same power tier. They could not abandon him and came so he won't die alone and to show respect to their fathers. As for complaining for the Shadow Dragons having no motivation and just being evil. They are created by different wishes and the quality of the wish created negative energy to balance the positive energy in them. That explains why the most selfish wish created the noble Sixinglong aka. Nouva Shenron who is a killer but refrains from killing women and children as well as fighting with honor. His brother criticizes him for that even going as far as forcing Nouva to give Goku the finishing blow. Goku, who survived because Nova just melted the ice, would criticize Sanxinglong aka. Eis Shenron for being naive for not doing the job himself. Showing while Eis is irredeemable, he does want his brother to succeed as a proper dragon of their rank as they are related. Even if he would use him as a shield later to defeat Goku. Goku had a good excuse to use SSJ4 since that form brings him to his adult state which he is the most accustoomed to.
I loved that he let the machine change him. It's something Toriyama often forgets to acknowledge. None of these warriors grew in power by themselves. Who fed them? Who housed them? Who supported them? They've always had help from Bulma, Chichi, Roshi, etc. They lived in their homes, were raised by them even. The idea that planet Earth could directly influence the growth of the Saiyans has always been core to Dragon Ball, and having Vegeta accept that in his heart in his evolution is an awesome story beat.
as the proclaimed 3rd biggest gt fanboy in the universe, your debunk/analysis somehow made me gain a greater appreciation for gt i didn't even know I could gain. the video is very well thought out and explained and debunks the outright bias mark had in his video, mark went into his video with every intention to hate on gt this is very clearly shown in his review while your video is far more sincere and unbiased, as you said gt isn't for everyone its a flawed series. but gt is a series i will always love and defend no matter what anyone says about it.
It’s the hidden doubt that people put into your head because they constantly tear down the show even though it was good Work, it was trying to do make your appreciate Dragon ball. Compared to, super Dad doesn’t want to be mature, it just wants to appeal to fighting nerds that prefer flashy action over meaningful dialogue or fights because who gives shit about you’re fighting. If it’s Your grandma that had it coming the one time she hit you with her walker.
Most of Mark's criticism in the Black Star Saga is how bizarre things are and I have to disagree on that since you are literally watching Dragon Ball, you can't expect stuff to be 'normal' when they're literally in space, of course there will be bizarre creature and things
i mean it was pretty bizarre though. Plenty of bizarre things happen in dragon ball, but a lot of the bizarre things that happen in the black star saga and some of the super android 17 saga are bizarre without cohesion and sometimes are just there to awkwardly drag goku away from the plot.
It's basically just " i wanted this to be very serious dbz " which funnily enough he even said at the start of the video so no wonder he was having this much of a hard time putting up with it .
@@humanman9920 Nah that wasn't quite it. Although i don't completely agree with all he has to say on it, the problem isn't with the idea of lower stakes or comedy in dragon ball, the problem he had was with the execution.
@@MuhammadAli-rw3vn I see what you're saying. But EoZ having Uub being a reincarnation of pink bubble gum? Seems pretty bizarre to me. But that's OK. It's Dragon Ball.
I do watch Mark's content occasionally, but yeah, you can tell occasionally he takes the 'obligatory GT jab' here and there. I guess if in the Sonic fan base it would be the mandatory '06 is bad' reference. in the end of the day, I respect and like GT for what it tried to do, it took risks and some things didn't pan out, but if you can see past the flaws the series still has a lot of heart to the DB series as a whole.
I feel like half of the problem with Geets getting SSJ4 is that it happens off screen, but it’s no different than when he got SSJ in Z. I also love the fact that they went with the original brown hair color emphasized by the light of the aura
I grew up with the original dragon ball before Z, so when i started watching gt it reminded me of how i loved the adventures of the original and instantly made me put my dbz expectations away.
Thank you for making this. I like Mark, I’ve given him support for years. He doesn’t understand Bleach either though. He rushed those videos out to hop on that 2022 Bleach Return Bandwagon and completely misread a lot of the characters. Saying they were unnecessarily involved in certain battles. Bleach is bigger than just the main character. I feel like he had the same mindset with his GT video.
that is what you get when you try to cash in on the popularity. Something like a blind review doesn't exist. What he does is either Vlogging or Blogging. Reviews don't regurgitate or summarize what you have seen. He isn't the only one doing that mistake.
I didnt like his video on rewriting the Buu saga either. It completely ignores the importance of the events for the characters and why the Saiyaman arc was not pointless nor Gohan not being ment to just solo the arc because of SS2 Teen Gohan. It was just a ridiculous video to me for similar reasons. Rushed and Ignorant.
One thing that I think is really underappreciated about GT is Trunks. Or rather, that he wasn't just a copy-and-paste of Future Trunks, which would have been the easy way out. No, GT Trucks has a vastly different personality, which in turn is a direct result of his vastly different upbringing, and I love it.
21:52 To be fair to Mark on this type of “swerve” we are given info that Baby can control people without having to be the host by this point, because of the countless infected members and the big moment where Goten ends up succumbing to the effects later on in his home after Baby infects Gohan. So when this scene arrives we are reminded that Trunks has been infected before, so the dots do connect. So I don’t think its all hate because it’s related to the Black Star Dragon Ball arc. I think he just prefers writing with foreshadowed events rather than surprises with no clues. I do see your perspectives on other things it’s just something I noticed in the video.
There's an important distinction there though, Baby overcame Goten and infected him fully, then left his body of his own volition. Trunks expelled Baby forcefully, so there's no hint that Baby left a piece of him inside Trunks until you learn of the whole egg ability much later into the arc.
@@purerage7963 I mean the fact that Baby was literally controlling mutiple humans at once is a hint that he could control others without being in their body as a host solefully, which is literally in the next episode after Trunks was infected briefly. Then Goten sucumming to the effects is still before the mentions of the eggs. The reveal of the eggs afterwards during the aftermath of Baby Gohan vs Vegeta explains the process but its not that late in the arc and still an entire episode before its revealed Trunks could have been controlled at anypoint if he wanted.
@@KeyLeech What I meant was that since Baby left Goten's body on his own, it's plausible that he left a piece of his goo in him (since that's the mechanism through which we see Baby control people), meanwhile Trunks pushed him out entirely. The twist with the eggs is that Baby left those inside Trunks rather than a bit of his goo, hence why Trunks could not expel it with ki alone and needed the Sacred Water.
@@purerage7963Baby doesn't leave any pieces of goo though, its all eggs, I have no idea where you got this goo thing from, its only himself or the eggs that hatch into other Baby clones. Even if it did I don't even see what your point even is. My original point was saying that Totally Not Mark just seems to like a good swerve and thats it, and since we literally see Baby controlling other people outside of being the primary host, its plausible to be like "Oh that makes sense since he infected Trunks for a period of time, and he didnt activate it since he was collecting the dragonballs still". Like we can come to that conclusion is my main point.
49:33 This is one of the reasons I have a hard time watching Mark. I don't hate him, but it feels like he regularly says things that make it seem he wants things both ways without understanding it just doesn't make sense, and it doesn't help he says this back-to-back.
@@DrJareldone standout, ledjic. otherwise, better to have 1 bad, 1 great, and consistently good than oftentimes really bad and just "fix it for the blueray"
Its kinda funny when people say they want adventure style stuff and then get frustrated and say that it's all pointless stuff. That's what adventure style is: monster/problem of the week that needs to be solved in 2 to 3 episodes and then you move on to the next place. OG Dragon Ball managed to find a very good balance between adventure and battles, mixing the world tournaments with stuff like the Red Ribbon Army for example. GT's issue was simply not having really really interesting stuff on it's adventure journey, heck they even reused Oolong mini arc's premise for some reason.
Totally Not Mark's takes are pretty much generic. He doesn't even understand what he's watching. When I heard him saying he had no idea how the black star dragon balls worked I knew he only watched the Funi dub and from there I lost interest and left. I get GT is not for everyone but I seriously wish people would just watch the sub before posting their takes on TH-cam. All he's done is made GT look worse. Like it needed more of that publicity. Thanks for making this video, it's very much needed. Edit: Sweet jell-o on the hood of a Hummer I knew I was on the money to leave the moment he admitted to not understanding how the Black Star Dragon Balls worked but my gosh listening to him misunderstanding everything in GT was like nails on a chalkboard. Who watches for understanding these days anymore? Smh
He did the same thing to bleach, doesn’t pay attention then says some generic criticism that doesn’t add up if you read/watch the series yourself. Also skips parts from the series that would directly counter his points. (Although that could be on accident because he didn’t pay attention)
@@sun-noir bad faith. He's never liked Super that much either and he actually praises GT over Super in many instances. You should be better than this if you're going to posture.
@@klein8378 For as much effort as Mark puts in his videos he's truly the average Hollywood action flick equivalent of anime takes, just the safest and most popular opinions repeated throughout without any proper arguments.
I like that GT had a nice overarching story mainly hgaving to do with the Machine Mutants. The encounters with them in the Black Star Arc lead into the Baby Arc, the first two arcs are the catalyst to the Super 17 arc, which itself triggers the Shadow Dragons arc.
You are the only DB channel because you know the real meaning of canon and continuity while other channels just say "this is non canon" and proceed to the next subject as if they proved anything. They seem to falsely believe that canon means like and non canon means dislike and that only canon is real Dragon Ball while non canon is not. You on the other hand knows that canon and continuity are simple there to tell what characters and events belong where and why, nothing more, nothing less. Everything that is made by Toriyama, Toei, Bandai etc etc are official Dragon Ball products.
For me Super and gt can't fit into the same continuity. Well, they can, but ho boy are they going to have to do a lot of explaining when they plane to end Super.
One more point of how super saiyan 4 is more 'earned' than what mark gave it 'credit' for is based on seth's view of ssj4. It's not enough that you need great strength to transform from golden oozaru to ssj4, it's also implied that love and the desire to protect that offsets the feral power of oozaru is needed. Goku when transforming to oozaru was already thinking of his friends and family, and pan is the final catalyst to help him. Vegeta is the same too, the once prideful warrior has now positively grown to see earth as his home and has selfless desire to protect it helped him turn ssj4. This is why baby couldn't go ssj4, he's the manifestation of the tuffle's hate, all his love he ever had is the support he got from his brainwashed subjects. It's not even a new concept, gohan in the fight against vegeta was about to stomp his own friends as oozaru before goku rekindled his love for friends and family. I also don't see the point of his critique of the shadow dragons being only evil being a new thing to gt only. Vegeta when we first saw him was just an egomaniac wanting to be the strongest. Frieza is a generic brutal emperor and we loved him, cell's main goal is to kill goku just like the rest of the androids of gero and the evil is on top of it. Majin buu is literally supposed to be just like the shadow dragons on terms of mainfestation. And let's be honest super anime only had one true evil villain that is zamasu.
9:32- 9:38 I thought that was covered. After Oolong wished for Shelong/Shenron to kill Nappa and Vegeta, Shenron stated that wish couldn't be granted because he couldn't grant a wish greater than that of Kami's capabilities. And since Nappa and Vegeta were stronger than Kami that wish was impossible to grant.
I have and still like the final arc of GT. Having some kind of consequence to over using the dragon balls was awesome. I also think the reason alot of American fans didn't like gt was because they never watched Dragon Ball and by never watching it missed out on what dragon ball was at its beginning. GT to me was trying to go back to its roots. That's way the first arc Is them chasing down the balls just like the original arc.
It's a small thing but I actually really like Vegeta taking Bulmas help. I get the didn't train/earn comments as I feel that a lot of times especially in super. I thought pretty thematic though for Vegeta in getting ss4. At this point vegeta is no longer so self absorbed he is a family man, he'll take any help. A scientist, a non combatant, Burma isn't even a low powered human. Bulma is someone the original vegeta would never take help from. Now she's his wife valued over likely everyone but his children and who helps him reach his apex of power. Vegeta isn't ss4 because of raw power, but growth over the series
And he trains in the gravity chamber like all the time , the " didn't train/earn " is always because there wasn't as much build up as Goku got and the training happened off screen .
It also makes sense that Bulma would be able to create a weapon that could destroy the Z fighters when she's possessed. I think her character was handled pretty well throughout the show.
people in vegeta's mind (gt): bulma, kakarot, trunks gohan and bulla people in vegeta's mind (super): freeza/kakarot/jiren/beerus/more freeza/more kakarot/even more freeza
I've watched through Mark's review before watching this, and he does make some good points, but is misguided in other areas. At the end of the day, we are all dragonball fans and we can all appreciate it in it's various forms.
As someone who loves Dragon Ball GT, I still can't understand people's hatred of GT, it wasn't that bad once you get past the BSDB arc(Seriously, nothing post the Black Star Dragon Ball arc is that bad 💀). GT was insanely awesome to me, I loved everything about it, especially Super Saiyan 4, yes GT wasn't that good, even worse than Super in some aspects, but GT was truly a gem in the ruff, yeet all the ruff off GT and boom! You got the badass Story that is DB GT.
yeah super 17 arc was garbage but its definitely the type of trash that's so bad, its decent and it has good moments and if im being honest there are arcs in super worse than that lmao
I love Marcs content BUT I never, never ever understood his hate for DB GT... GT tried to mix the light hearted style from the original dragonball with the intensity of dragonball Z and managed to do that greatly. In places where tension was necessary, there was tension, in places where fun and adventure was key, there was fun and sillyness and adventure... his issue, just as many others, is a wrong expection that was not met. It is even wilder if you assume how much he apperently loved the original dragonball, yet he gives gt no love for exactly that... it is sad, just sad. I sometimes wonder if we have seen the same show, as my exprience differs so much from his *sigh*
I dont get how GT is supposed to be more like Z, but cant be more like the og? I mean isnt that why the black star arc is mostly skipped? Bcs its adventure style, like the og
Another thing I’m seeing a lot of Dragon Ball fans complain about that Mark mentioned a few times in this video too that’s such a stupid complaint is “the issue of plot convenience and coincidence” this literally happens in every form of media…. From movies to television, to video game stories. It’s part of helping plots move forward and isn’t just a dragon ball exclusive concept. I hate how a lot of people are starting to hold that over Dragon Ball’s (not just GT) head all the sudden because it’s really a dumb thing to complain about and only call Dragon Ball out for. Also he complained about Baby Vegeta growing a tail yet didn’t have an issue with Kid Gohan’s tail literally falling out his ass during the Saiyan saga fight with Vegeta
Is it stupid? It does happen yes but when it happens a lot? Eh...it can be a issue. The difference is Baby Vegeta grew a tail years after his last one was cut off...so it seemed like he stopped growing tails for good, unlike Goku or Gohan the first time.
GT was the first to start the "consequences" plot line. Super only followed suit with adding gods to the mix. Yes - Pan's potential wasted, that one episode with beat boxing dancers was not really needed (even though it was a good kind of weird), and after the series end along with the Future Descendant special there was no more information to figure out what happened in between the 100 years that had Grandma Pan taking care of Goku Jr. But - Pan is a staunch fighter who is pretty ballsy for her age, Goku HAD to find a new power-up in order to take on a new threat since in his child form he only has the Super Saiyan power-ups, Goku discovering the most awesome power-up in the series (Super Saiyan 4), and there are massive stakes at play that surrounded an over arching plot (minus the Super 17 battle as it's not connected to the same plot). I still like GT to this day and it's a shame that we didn't get more for the time skip special (Dragonball GT:AF) because it would be a new adventure and different Goku.
It's so much more thematic to have it be the Dragon Balls though. It got to the point where they were like "Well, let's let this villain do what they want until we are ready to fight them, and we can fix everything with the Dragon Balls.
It took years cause she was building it in the apocalypse with androids blowing everything up. She built this in a protected area with literally everything she needed.
@@mouadchaglalchimistefullme6116 Dang, so I guess all the stuff she was able to do and invent in Z on short notice is just as bad. On the other hand, you do know Blutz waves in the Dragon Ball universe has been around since original Dragon Ball, as they are what cause the Great Ape transformation, and are a natural source. All she basically built was a Blutz Wave director, a magnifying glass if you will, for Blutz Waves.
The issue i have with marks videos is they way he presents a lot of his praise/criticism where he tries to make it seem objective when by its nature critiques are subjective, what makes a certain scene or arc effective just isn’t the same for everyone, but he tends to frame his critiques around some objective view of how things should be done (i.e goku having been aged up so he’d make for a better action protagonist) and this creates a sense within a community where because his opinions are “backed up” they are more valid and makes people more willing to jump into bandwagons rather than forming their own opinions.
I couldn't agree more, that is one thing that annoyed me with Mark's reviews sometines, how he acts as if he is atleast trying to be unbiased and objective, but in reality he isn't, which isn't a problem on itself but the way he present things are really misleading, and his bias really shows in pretty much all of his super and Gt reviews, he criticises gt for the most miniscule of problems yet lets super get a pass with so much crap, i didn't even noticed it at first until i watched Swagkage's reviews on super who i think do a good job at pointing out pretty much all the flaws of super in a way more unbiased and fair way, even though swagkage is very open on how he doesn't like super
I don't get that, I feel like his critiques are as valid and subjective as anyone else's, I don't really get a Mauler vibe from him where he tries to frame everything under an objective lense.
@obsu I agree, the differences between these critiques are mark is going from a critical story analysis, where as this video is looking from a more emotional standpoint. Stating things don't make sense because it will come back later does not change the fact that it's bad writing or directionless, it just is something people use to help explain why the bad decisions can make sense
@@arthuralexander1449From what I remember he criticized Super just as much as GT hell the first 2 videos were basically him shitting on super and from there a pretty consistent critique of the show
Piccolo didn't "help Goku relearn how to do Instant Transmission." He gave Goku enough energy to do it after he ran out using SS4. I have no idea how that can't be seen.
@@MaxiemumKarnage Ikr , i generally like his reviews but this was one of the very few times it just didn't look like he even went into it with an open mind like he claims to , other than misinformed opinions and false or self contradictory logic to call things bad he seemed too eager to poke the things in it.
Like I know they said they aren't going to continue Dragon Ball Abridged but I always had this thought. Goku teleported with cell to king kai's planet and blew it up. Well King Kai would be pisted at him for destroying his planet and killing him. So when Goku was there for 7 years King Kai would make Goku train none stop without sleeping or eating.
just came here from watching mark's buu arc review and what u said here at the start abt how unreasonably harsh ppl are on GT rings so true. again, no hate to mark, and I get his Z review series was meant to be more of a "love letter" than a review but to me the double standard is...palpable. in the super 17 arc mark said piccolo's telepathy powers came out of nowhere, but in the buu arc he specifically praised the scene of him telepathically communicating w/ goten and trunks. in the shadow dragons arc mark pointed out how pan and most of the cast got sidelined in the final fight, but didn't say anything abt the buu arc completely throwing half the characters away (though he did talk abt gohan's misuse). again in the shadow dragons arc he said "the shadow dragons are evil just bc, they have no motivation" while he praises buu for just being a pure evil creature. idk maybe this just was bothersome to me bc I personally think the buu arc is worse than any arc in GT--just me tho
I love Mark's channel and been following him for years, but I do tend to take some negativity with his GT review. With his OG Dragon Ball and Z reviews, he's watched those shows and has a very deep understanding of them in manga and anime, but with GT only has a surface level view of it. As Saiyan Scholar has seen GT multiple times, he has a very in-depth view of the show that others don't, just like Mark does with original db and z. So not giving GT that same approach sorta gives Mark's review a dishonest and kinda lazy feel to it. It doesn't feel like he's trying to form his own in depth opinion as he usually does but is purely trying to appeal to the fanbase that dislikes GT. To his defense, if you're a huge dragon ball fan but never gave GT a full watch, you too would be influenced over the years by the toxic part of the fandom that GT is a terrible show with nothing good about it and you're a fake fan for liking it.
GT has always been my favorite of all Dragon Ball and watching it with my son as a grown woman and being able to understand the story from a new perspective has made me love it even more
I would also like to point out that Pilaf likely only got to the lookout because of Goku and Uub's fight distracting Dende and Popo. I remember Pilaf saying things like this was a diversion or something. Also at 45:43 minutes to remind you of what Omega Shenron would say, to quote Saiyan Scholar in one of his previous videos: Vegeta.........................YOU'RE A GODDAMN DISGRACE!!!!!!
While I disagree with this review at some points and personally don't like GT from when I was a kid, you gave some very interesting points that made me think differently about some aspects of the show. Good video man.
I actually like gt more then super honestly. GT goku was the character I was use too. In super he put people in danger because of his desire to fight powerful opponents. Even though super has awesome transformations. I prefer the simplicity of GT. Super sayain 4 was an awesome design for 2 full sayains.
A lot of people get this one wrong , and i understand how they feel , but they don't know what to criticise and choose the wrong thing . Vegeta didn't get much buildup to ssj4 right before the moment he got it and it felt a bit anticlimactic , but the machine being used to transform him into an Ozaru isn't wrong at all , people just forget basic logic to express their emotions on this one . I wouldn't want some weird nonsensical ozaru transformation where he just transforms into it by screaming or something , there are other ways that moment could've felt more climactic like Omega interrupting the transformation and attacking him in golden ozaru , it wouldn't be out of his character either to just beat around someone without killing them as he does that later too and is arrogant , followed up with a more lengthened inner monologue of Vegeta and everyone else trying to remind him his purpose , with Omega not giving him time to calm down either and continuously making it harder for him to do it , then something like Goku somehow keeping him busy for a short moment and Vegeta finally getting it . Goku's version feels so awesome because he was beaten to a pulp , a second time at that and looking at earth in a helpless state when the process started , struggled a lot before he getting it finally with Pan's help , compared to that Vegeta's version felt underwhelming cuz his buildup was just the training which happened off screen , so it definitely could've been executed better for Vegeta , but the machine had LITERALLY NOTHING to do with this shortcoming . It fits that they showed Vegeta gaining back the control much easily compared to Goku cuz back then he could fully control regular ozaru , but he still should've gotten some kind of struggle so Omega interrupting would be the perfect thing .
Pretty much entirely agreed. Anime fans generally get into arguments (petty ones especially) because they have an idea of what they want but don't know how to express it. With Vegeta getting SSJ4 they tend to emphasize the lack of a struggle factor which Vegeta is known for bringing to the table, but GT Vegeta is more composed and subdued than Z Vegeta. If Vegeta struggled like you suggested, and his transformation further emphasized the difficulty in mastering Golden Oozaru which was only shown on the outside with Goku, then more people would've had that subconscious desire fulfilled and that transformation and the need for the Blutz Wave Machine would be accepted. Logic is important but emotion is what drives personal investment.
Bc of the recent drama with SethTheProgramer I was incredibly worried for some reason despite really liking your content. Glad you're still one of my favs even if you're not one of the most popular. As someone who grew up on GT with a ton of appreciation towards it like you do, I was slightly concerned at first, but I'm glad at how maturely you handled this as I watch both of your channels a lot. Thank you for showing that these kinda "debunked" videos can be perfectly civil and respectful in terms of critiques. Everyone is allowed a different opinion and in this time of utterly stupid and needless dragon ball drama, I'm glad a regular discussion on the series can be had despite differing opinions without outright shame being thrown towards the differing party. Like I said, I love Mark's content and he's actually helped me become closer with some of my irl friends bc of our love of his material, but people's interpretations of material is their own and able to be taken as valid just as someone else's. I like GT a lot more than Mark does but he doesn't shame anyone for liking it and I'm glad you share the opposite opinion in terms of really liking it but not shaming someone for disliking it bc there's plenty of points for either direction
The Bulma point is so true because without Bulma and some of her feats they wouldn't be alive. Going back to original Dragon Ball they would have had to walk everywhere without the capsules. Not to mention she invented time travel lol
I never could like GT or Super. That said I did apprecaite two things. 1) The callback to the savage saiyan history with the Golden Oozaru. 2) GT had the balls to actually give Goku an ending and stopping.
I don't have anything against Mark personally but I didn't enjoy that particular video of his at all, it honestly felt like he was being INCREDIBLY biased against GT the entire time right from the get go. It's one thing not to like GT in general, you're allowed to have that opinion. However it's another thing to be SO critical of EVERY SINGLE THING that happens in the show to the point that it just straight up sounds like he's CONSTANTLY looking for something to nitpick or looking for even the smallest thing to hold against the show. It might just be me but it just felt like he was hating on it the entire time just for the sake of hating on it. I don't even remember him being this negative when he did a review on Super. Honestly props to Saiyan Scholar for going through the entire video with a calm and respectful attitude, he shared his disagreement in a calm and civil manner which I think is a rarity on the internet.
@@MuhammadAli-rw3vn Dude hasn't seen GT in 15 years, and decides to make a video on it while spouting a constant stream of shit takes and falsehoods. I would expect Screenrant or CBR to make a video like that.
It's nice having someone view GT with an open mind and make reasonable arguments. I will agree that while GT isn't super amazing, it isn't bad either; it's a fun show with many good and rememberable moments. Some people just lime to take a surface level look at it and bash it for no reason than just because coughtfscough.
i dont understand the hate for gt because its nOt cAnOn . i liked it . the inly thing i hated is everybody sippin tea while goku and pan fight with the shadow dragons
@Saiyan Scholar, I like Gt, but also that ENTIRE Movie timeline 🔥 1) O.G. 3 (or 4) O.G. D.B. movies 2) O.G. 13 Dbz Movies (including off screen Saga events & Movie Timeline version of Bardock & Future Trunks events) 3) Dragon Ball Gt
You gave it worthy justice. I actually don't like Dragon Ball Super and absolutely love Dragon Ball GT. And before someone will tell me "GT is not cannon super is." I don't care I love GT for what it is. My ranking for the parts of the franchise: 1.DBZ 2.DB 3.DBGT 4.DBS.
I cant hate Dragon Ball GT even if it's bad, I grew up watching this show every Sunday with my mom when she was still alive, I still remember the good times watching anime with her. Btw, Latín American dub for the win
The biggest irony is people hating GT when Toriyama liked it and played a part in its creation. Like how everyone said they were bored to death by the black star dragon ball arc, but who made that? Toriyama. Also had the idea to make Trunks pretend to be a bride like goku did, also didn’t end well because most fans hated that. He also loved super saiyan 4 and made his own Art of it, by the end of the day he called it a Grand Side Story. Much better than a “casual continuation” like super.
Yeah people say it's bad because Toriyama wasn't much involved but ironically the part where he was most involved and had influenced the most is the most hated arc . I get that it had a bad pacing but i don't dislike the idea , i just take what i can and with some difficulty , accept it and appreciate the cool character interactions and subtle development the characters got in that arc , wouldn't even be hard to fly through the boring parts if there was some other mini plot going on at earth and some fights happened with these other characters time to time till the space adventure really kicked off .
Eh i still prefer the casual continuation over GT at least the side character's can get spotlight in Super while in GT everyone got reverted into a battery for goku.
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 so Super hasn’t? Z was the last time characters other than goku hasn’t been fodderized. They acted like a battery in super as well you know? Super Saiyan God, Frieza’s return, Super Spirit Bomb during T.O.P., Jumpstart ultra Instinct goku and replenish energy & so on. Not to mention GT & Super both use the other Z-Fighters for large numbers battles. The difference? GT didn’t hype up other characters like they were going to be relevant like Super did; Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, Gohan, Majin Buu & Broly.
@@jonathanmcmarion3777 Yes Super hasn't look at Gohan beast and Piccolo a movie dedicated to them and now we're getting an arc dedicated to goten and trunks, can you show me anything notable Gohan and Piccolo did in GT besides getting their cranium split open? Broly is relevant he had a whole movie dedicated to him as well Lols majin buu molly whopped Moro and forced him to retreat and Uub played a big role in finally stopping Moro. Vegeta has gotten his own forms without following Goku's footsteps(like he did in GT again) and has a few wins in Super while in GT Vegeta only beat nappa and was molly whopped by everyone else.
As someone who thought Vegeta cheated as a kid, now that I am older see how it was always obtainable for Vegeta. I apologize. The set up for the shadow dragon arc is my favorite of GT. Showing their were a backlash from constantly saying we can wish them back using the balls. The idea that loops back to the ideas talked about in Dragon Ball for how hard it is to find the balls, so they are given their time to disperse the negative build up. I also love that the 4 star ball being important as Nova is the dragon Goku has the connection with. As it was Grampa's ball. I love that the movie ends after Goku Jr. finds the 4 star. The only thing I find amazing is the Son and Brief families ever not being friends forever.
8:50 feels like such a huge reach. 1. They dont know about the negative energy produced from wishes at that time On the second point i dont remember then ever stating you need the black star balls to turn goku back, wasnt he just indifferent to being a kid again?
I grew up with watching GT on toonami so I’ve never personally hated it and never got why it gets so much hate. Was it perfect? No… Did it have issues? Of course but I don’t think it was bad enough to deserve the hate GT gets today. To me it was a let down as a follow up to Z but it was a decent show in it’s own rights. I also just recently watched GT Sub and wow the difference is night and day especially with the script. Watching Sub version made me like GT even more than I already did. Main thing that I did dislike about GT as a kid was the reverting Goku back to a kid which was fixed with the introduction of SSJ4 but honestly I wish they would’ve either treated SSJ4 like a base form for him and kept him like that permanently for the series or had the SSJ4 transformation completely nullify the wish of him being turned into a kid and let him have his normal base form adult body because it was kinda weird for him to keep swapping back and forth between a kid body and an adult body
I first watched GT when I seen the VHS tape for it at the store and mistook it for Dragon Ball Z. still was not disappointed at all since it was still Dragon Ball.
@@brandonking5111 exactly, as a kid and he’ll even still now, I’m happy to get anything Dragon Ball which is also why I don’t hate on Super. I grew up in a period where the only Dragon Ball content we got was video games for a whole decade so to think that new Dragon Ball content is being made after growing up in that dark age is enough to make me happy lol
Dude you handled this is so much more maturely than I ever would have XD. Like i don't mind Mark disliking GT, sure but his reasons for disliking it are questionable and kinda hypocritical. Literally all the issues he has with GT, he will let slide when it comes to Super. Good job countering most of his points and I admire how fast you got this out.
@@ARC--5973 You don't get it , there's a bunch to criticise so of course he does , but he doesn't seem as misinformed or as eager to poke anything about it as he seemed in this one . And no problem , it's understandable everyone has preferences but it needs to be pointed out .
One other thing is that debunking something based on their definition of filler is fairly pointless nowadays as so many different people each have their different definitions on that term.
That introduction hit hard. Ppl need to understand sometimes that not everything is a constant war
there's a couple in this video's comments that need to understand that too, most here are chill which I really wanna stress, but the "this person BAD and my guy GOOD" stuff is tiresome in any amount
It's possible to criticize someone without everything being a GOTCHA moment
@@tuyhhf fr
@@tuyhhf Good point, but my point is better
@@MaxiemumKarnage 😂
Yeah, especially since Mark welcomes open criticism as well.
Sometimes I dislike how people insinuate that you must like GT or Super. It doesn't have to be one or the other. I for one really like that we have so much Dragon Ball to enjoy, no matter the continuity 👍🏻
Fucking facts
I love GT due to nostalgia (granted, I got the Blue Water dub in my country which is a much better English dubbing imo, especially the intro) and Super for reviving my nostalgia.
Both are good. Both are even sometimes great.
@@MaxiemumKarnage Agreed! And I would also say both suffer from the same flaw. Great concepts that could have been executed better.
I couldn’t said it better myself I like super better than gt but I don’t think gt is the worst thing ever I never thought gt wasn’t really that bad I like both series that changed a little over time because people would just not recognize bad plot holes and plot in gt they just say gt is better just cause without giving a explanation i agree super is far from perfect is it peak it’s getting there, there’s so many things in super I can’t stand. Gokus character in super and gt is just fine it’s just because people just prefer gt just because he’s a better version of z goku which and the same can be said with super goku there only argument is he never knew what a kiss was and that’s stupid considering he never ever mention a kiss besides filler or just the dub. People would just use that as a argument to bash him and don’t watch the series. I also think dbs vegeta is a better character and has far better progression than gt vegeta anyway I’m ramping on to much I completely agree with your comment and everyone should just enjoy,
(Personally) I like almost everything DB related Dragonball, Z, GT, Super, Super heroes YT videos, even some fanmade projects like multiverse and DBZ: Abridged. the only DB thing I disliked was the Live action.
But its seems that the overall community of DB is a choose your side. full of slander and hate for each other.... I love this franchise, but unfortunately I cannot say the same for the community.
As someone who watched both of these creators this is one of the most respectful debunkings ever
Very much so. I wish either would go ahead and do that massive review of Z (in long form) because I can appreciate both points of view. Scholar's demeanor & sense of sarcasm is my personal favorite out of all the channels that talk about DragonBall (every facet of the series) but I do respect all of these people and their opinions.
Ikr?
Agreed
Yes I can never understand he is inconsistent with what he sees as dragon ball
Really could've fooled me he comes across really salty here.
I like that you take things like these with a wider perspective, understanding his parts, yet giving your own without being disrespectful. I personally disagree with a lot of stuff with Mark, but I see people being way more extra about it... 💀
Alot of ppl look at it as what it is instead of seeing the wider picture
Honestly, Vegeta using the machine to transform isn’t cheating. Especially with Majin Vegeta being a thing. Vegeta using the machine to reach Super Saiyan 4 is him growing and maturing. One he had to get Bulma to love him and stay with him. That is a grind in on its own. Two, he put his pride aside and asked her for help. He actually asked for help. Vegeta, put himself aside to save the Earth, a place he loved with people on it that he loved. He was so angry that he would have to lose another home world, that is showing how much he cares. So him accepting help to transform to his most powerful form to actually fuse instead of taking Omega on himself, shows he had stopped wanting to be number 1 and started being a responsible man that cared for others. Cheating no. Accepting that others come before your pride, that was Vegeta’s biggest challenge ever. And people love those moments when he has shown that in the past, when he went after Cell because of Trunks. Even him reach Blue Evolution. SSJ4 Vegeta is a full power Vegeta with a full mind and spirit.
This was beautifully put. Specially because his lack of desire to be "number 1" immediately connects with the end of Buu saga, which is when Vegeta acknowledged Goku as "number 1" in the best example of character growth he had, which in turn got to evolve even further in GT.
@@aikou2886 for those who must know, the Xenoverse 2 GT Vegeta is not the GT Vegeta we know. It is mainly game developers not understanding the character and just trying to make money. As Xenoverse 2, at least the English dub GT Vegeta is going on about being number 1 again. The little pride he has because he is going to save Goku for once is nice, but his weird competitiveness out of no where is just poor judgment on a game developers perspective.
I watched the sub of Vegeta fighting Omega, just to make sure he was the same. He was actually happy to accept the help of the others, so they could protect the Earth. He would of been like no I got this on my own wait your turn if he didn’t grow and mature. He even asks Goku for power. Now that is a Vegeta I believe can be one of the strongest protectors of Earth.
It's lazy writing
@@dreadxplayzs7849 okay I’ll bite. Which part is lazy writing? Is it Vegeta getting SSJ4 or how he was written in Xenoverse 2?
@@Jociaoftrades vegeta ssj4 transformation was lazy
Keep up the Grand Work Scholar!
Despite its flaws (like everything else in life), GT, for me, is a satisfying conclusion to the DB anime's original broadcast era, and it has soul and passion. It's the grand, final part of the original DB anime trilogy.
Thank Brother. Lot of support in the comments. It seems many felt the same way.
@@SaiyanScholar A lot of that is thanks to you I think.
I used to hate GT too but you got me thinking about it a lot of times and I'm really grateful for that.
Maybe otherwise I never would have given it a second chance like all things should get.
“Totally Not Dragon Ball GT” is a pretty hard response title my goodness
Almost bring a tear to my eyes watching someone defend dragon ball gt. Thank you.
I was expecting a more petty rebuttal, but I was very engaged with the discourse and found myself agreeing with your observations on Mark's conclusion. There's a fundamental reason why series needs "filler", as Mark calls it - these down beats provide respite to build up for the climaxes. There can be no payoff if you don't allow time to invest in characters doing normal things and interacting. You can't just skip to the next dragon ball or the next fight scene and have the same emotional impact.
One thing you need to know about Saiyan Scholar is he is an honest GT fanboy and a respectful one
I used to literally RUN home after work to catch gt on cartoon network. It was my first time seeing new DragonBall, so for that I will always like it
The placement of Great Ape is important in the Baby Saga for an additional reason: you see, in the Saiyan vs Tuffle war, both sides were equal with neither gaining the advantage, however this changed when the full moon of Plant Plant/Vegeta comes play as it only appears once every several years. This let the Saiyans transform into Great Apes which was ultimately was the deciding factor in this back and forth war. The Great Ape carries this theme of history repeating itself and Super Saiyan 4 Goku and Golden Great Ape Baby is a challenge of who could take that deciding factor from the last conflict and use it better in this new conflict, to which Goku was able to win the challenge with Super Saiyan 4 as he wasn’t tied down by anything and was strengthened by his love for his friends and family, where as Baby was only able to achieve Golden Great Ape and that’s it because of his hatred inhibiting him and tying him down.
Honestly his comment about the shadow dragons having no deeper motivation for being evil is funny to me because that's how basically every Dragon Ball villain is. Just about every Dragon Ball villain in super Z the original and GT are just evil for the sake of evil. Is rather hypocritical to hate on GT's villains for this one almost every villain in the franchises this way.
I noticed that most who hate on GT never actually watched the og, as most DBZ fans. They only like to pretend og is the shit bcs of its reputation. While GT doesnt compare to the og, the first saga resembles the og a lot, an adventure style arc, while later arcs would resemble Z more, which most fans prefer coincidentally. Basically GT haters just want an another Z, but as someone who had watched DB and loves it, i love the black star saga, it felt like it went back to its original roots
@@sayanorasonic I honestly have a similar feeling I really love the Black Star Dragon Ball Ark we get to see all these new weird planets that we never got to explore before. I've seen people argue that these planets are pointless because they don't really come back but the different locations in the original Dragon Ball never came back either that doesn't make them pointless at all like when was the last time we saw Android 8 or those two Indian guys at the foot of corns Tower? Just cuz we don't see them anymore doesn't mean that they were pointless Editions
@@sayanorasonic Eh...a lot who do dislikeit still watched the og though and Mark obviously watched the og. No they don't pretend, they see that it's actually pretty good. Yet the execution of the first saga was still pretty bad. How is it a coincidence? The only GT arc that could be argued that most consider good is the baby saga but other then that even the later arcs are still disliked overall. So you are assuming stuff about GT haters? No they want something that makes sense and is welll written too. You can love the back star saga, that doesn't make it good though, same with liking some sonic games for example.
"Bulma making a blitz wave machine in minutes is utterly ridiculous"
She made a time machine in the middle of an apocalyse. Dont care if you think Bulma's bullshit inventions are bullshit, if you accept the time machine's existence (and most people do) then you're morally obligated to accept everything else she pulls out her ass
Lol i agree
But how would Bulma know what Blutz waves are? Let alone make a machine in mere minutes to stop SSj4 Goku? That’s the issue here. It’s not the fact that she made the machine at all it’s that she did it with no time flat
It is Dragon Ball, so...
@@peterparker1683 I agree but it is dragonball but damn do I agree lol
@@peterparker1683 Tsufruian knowledge?
I appreciate how professional and respectful this response is, I am a fan of both channels and I know how badly arguments on Dragonball can get 😂
I strongly agree
That's how it should be done. Everyone can share their opinions without attacking the other ones as if life itself depends on one specific opinion 👉🏻👈🏻
"This is the ULTIMATE form!"
-Super Saiyan 4 Goku (1996-1997)
I always disliked the argument of:
"It's dumb they just "forgot" the Black Star Dragon Balls were there."
I mean, in this entire Dragon Ball Series, we have a character like Piccolo that regularly forgets what powers he has like stretchy arms and turn giant, which he had to be reminded by Krillin that he can turn giant... Like, c'mon, how do you forget that power.
And then there's Kami and Piccolo that DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THEIR OWN NAME...
I agree with that 100%.
It's not "Great ideas, bad execution", it's "Great ideas, decent execution mostly" 👍🏻
bad execution throughout
I would say "mixed ideas, mixed execution", which isn't bad. Doing the adventure thing was mostly a bad idea, and slowed the pacing to a crawl so much they had to abandon it immediately. Him becoming a kid was unnecessary since we had Pan and Bra, and Goten and Trunks, if anything, they could have been the veterans and we could have developed the young characters again.
As far as mixed execution, SSj4, Gogeta, and Kamehameha x10 was cool, but the decision to oversaturate everything, as well as most of the other stuff, we all know is mixed.
@@beard6329 🤓🤓🤓
@@Goblin_Hands It wasn't a bad idea , it doesn't come with a bad pacing but it had bad pacing . They abandoned it because it got pretty much rejected reasonably .
They wanted Goku to still be at the centre that's why they made him a kid to let him work his way through in that arc , if he was an adult it'd called worse if he just stood by the side or took the lead and ended things anticlimactically . An og dragon ball like adventure at this point with stakes like this just wouldn't work with Goku being an adult , it barely passes with him getting nerfed as a kid . I just think if the pacing was better with some plot polishing , both the arc and kid form could've worked well . And after seeing how they introduced Ssj4 , i can't complain much about the kid form cuz it made Ssj4 even more awesome .
Yes the execution was mixed .
@@humanman9920 Well, maybe it's the Super in me that's just tired of seeing Goku as the protagonist every time. I liked him best in the Cell/Buu arc where everyone else had a chance to fight and he came later. In GT and Super, it's just Goku, Goku, Goku, and more Goku. We didn't even see Gotenks or Gohan fight (barely).
When i got older I saw the Super 17 Saga as a tribute to Dragon Ball's history since we saw every deceased villain cameo at least once. But, like you said, Frieza and Cell got their respect due to being the two most iconic villains from the original series. It was perfect that they placed this arc right before the Shadow Dragons saga since that happened due with consequences from misusing the dragon balls. Whether or not, you agree with how it was executed, no one can deny that was a fantastic way to originally end the series.
DBGT as a whole was a love letter to Dragon Ball's history, from the old dragon balls of full Kami to the negative Shenrons, it all made sense.
Super 17 also a respectful nod to the android arc, and added something new to it, since it was about androids fusing to become stronger.
Compare to Dragonball super version, were just because you train as an android, you have barely any lack of potential while being the only Victor in the actual battle royale to death, because the main character can win a single fight in the anime.
@@lost.name636brother9a nod, or an attempt at pandering? GT fans need to rewatch it with someone who hasn’t seen it and try to pretend it’s still good.
I want to add some stuff to the criticism. Behold it is LONG!
Reminder, Pilaf next to Bulma is the most experienced in stuff related to Dragon Ball lore. Just like he found out about the existence of Dragon Balls and how to find them, and just like how he found the Rice Cooker of King Piccolo, he would logically find clues or rationalize that there could be a hidden set of Dragon Balls in the Realm of God. You know, the guy who created the Dragon Balls.
People being chilled despite the universe being in danger has been explained in the Japanese version with characters acknowledging that they can move to another planet if things go out of hand. But they would rather not abandon their homes which is why they are calm. They have plan B if things don't work out. That is why Vegeta was willing to send off Goten and Trunks instead going himself as he thinks that the situation would be a good moment for them to get off their lazy butts.
As far as we can assume, the regular Dragon Ball should not be able to bring back the Black Star Dragon Balls too earth because they exceed Dende's power. If that were that easy, how weak would the Dragon Balls feel like if you can just wish all of them to earth? The Namekian Dragon Balls won't be any help either because Goku can't use Instant Transmission. Even if he could the same logic should apply to them as Polunga couldn't bring Goku to earth because he didn't want to.
The first mini arc was important to show the restrictions to Goku's powers and like you said how the team operates as well as their mindset. They can't be finding Dragon Balls in every episode, it would be illogical. Also it introduced Giru one of the MVPs in this arc.
I think the show tried to make clear at times that not all issues need to be solved with violents, which is why many times the characters did silly things instead of just punching their way out. Also Goku accidentally blow away a volcano which shows that his new body makes it hard to get a hang with his power.
It can be rationalize that Dr Mu found one Black Star Dragon Ball by chance and like Bulma used it to create a device to locate them which we in the story never see. The fact that Muchi Muchi talks about that his god told him about it makes it reasonable that he got the information from Dr Mu in some shape or form.
Complaining about telepathy is like complaining that every character after the Tien Saga can fly despite non of them going to Crane School who developted that technique.
The thing about Pan is that she went from looking down to Goku (literally) to looking up to him remembering "My grandpa is really the best" to the point she held on to his old gi and gifted it to her grandson who is also called Goku.
There would be no benefit or reason for Baby to lay an egg in Vegeta because for one, time needs to pass before someone becomes a Tsufuru and everyone drank the holy water both on earth and on Planet Tsufuru.
Kid Goku fights were the best. Before the Z part started, most the fights Goku took advantage on both his size and body to beat an enemy. He even used the environment to his advantage. In Z stuff like that were really rare. All fights depended on emotional stakes and choreography to hype you up. There was hardly any unique fighting style unless you count the movies with Broly. Most the fights felt like tennis matches as someone needed to transform to get an edge over the other character in battle. Meanwhile in GT, that didn't happen often as few characters were able to transform.
I don't think the Super 17 arc being short is a good excuse to defend it. I feel the show did a lot of things to make it reasonable. Like Oob just one shotting General Rildo seems more reasonable than us getting a full fight with Gohan focusing how he can handle a threat like that. The characters were all useful and weren't useless eating screentime like in Revival of F where Frieza just chose not to intervene and the plot decided that Goku gets notified to come to earth to fight Frieza. Goku was trapped in hell and characters tried to free him. Vegeta was busy fightin Hell Fighter 17. Krillin and 18 were attacked by 17. Pan dispatched the Red Ribbon Army. Goten and Trunks handled Babidi's henchmen and 19.
Compare that to the Z Fighters beat up Frieza Soldiers weaker than Master Roshi. Embarrassing. Piccolo got his ass kicked by someone at Dodoria's level.
The show did a good job to explain, in the Japanese version, why 17 is chosen specifically as he has dormant power stronger than Cell. Which Cell? Since everyone in hell know each other, it has to be Perfect Cell. And Dr Gero stated that he could not find a way to make 17 access that power. That is why Dr Mu helped creating a new 17 that is strong enough to put a fight against Vegeta who stated "You have powered up beyond believe" thinking that is the regular 17. As for old 17, after Hell and Earth merged, he stated that he is overflowing with power indicating that his dormant power stronger than that of Cell is awakened just as the GT Perfect Files state (Perfect File II). Now you have these 17 stronger than Perfect Cell 17's merge which is not a simple addition like the dub makes you believe, you are getting Super 17 who exceeds the power of Oob and perhaps even an off screen Gotenks, we probably didn't see because Super 17 was just a gateaway to introduce the Shadow Dragon arc.
I don't exactly remember the reason King Yemma could not release Goku from hell but powers far stronger of his were interfearing where the anime cut away to the Dragon Balls (cracking?). Either implying that the opening of hell is the cause or the negative energy of the Dragon Balls.
I want to remind everyone that in hell there are machines meaning there are resources to build devices. And just because Hell Fighter 17 looks like 17 doesn't mean he doesn't have unique abilities to himself. He is basically DLC to upgrade the old model. What would be the point in making another exact copy?
Super 17 was meant to me obedient to Dr Mu but 18 and Krillin managed to get through him allowing parts of the original 17 to pop out. Goku even stated after they won that the real 17 allowed them to beat him and that 18's words reached him. That suppose to showcase that there was more to Super 17 than being just a puppet of Dr Mu and it was done amazingly.
"Throw some ki blasts"
The irony when someone say this in a show criticized for spamming ki blasts all the time.
Also adding to the Vegeta thing being unearned? God forbid the characters use a device set up several arcs prior and use it to save the world. God forbid Goku drink the holy water so he can awaken his power to fight King Piccolo which was just given to him in the manga. God forbid Krillin and Gohan get free power ups by having their potential unlocked by some old Namekian. What about Gohan waiting several hours until his hidden potential gets unlocked for the 3rd time? What about Vegeta letting his hidden powers awaken so he can Goku to kill him (despite Goku already being death)? Oh wait, those shows aren't GT. Vegeta is too prideful to fuse even if his family and friends are at danger. He would only use cheap tricks when the plot demands according to toriyama like abusing the Zenkai boost so he can turn into a Super Saiyan against final form Frieza who isn't even in his final form.
Yeah, Goku managed to hold on the move from Omega while in Base form but it is clear that Goku got the adrenaline boost using every bit of his life force just to safe earth. Compare that to Dragon Ball Super where he broke his arms using a Kamehameha to overpower murged Zamas and permanently scaring him, then following that up with a Kaioken without suffering life threatening damage. Completely different scenes. Living beings get the most powerful when their loved ones are in danger and this scene did a great way showing it. Goku gave up his life in exchance to give earth a few more minutes and enough time for Vegeta requesting the others to escape from earth. It is heavily implied Goku traded off his life to stop Omega's 1 attack before getting the offer to take full responsibility for the Dragon Balls and gather power for the Genkidama.
It was an amazing way to end Dragon Ball. Non of the Dragon Ball arcs can come close to this.
I want to point out that Goten wanted to buy time a second time for Goku and Vegeta to fuse but Gohan prevented him that it would just make the situation worse now that Omega knows how dangerious fusion is. The reason they are involved in the final fight then is because Vegeta was not a Super Saiyan 4 anymore and on the same power tier. They could not abandon him and came so he won't die alone and to show respect to their fathers.
As for complaining for the Shadow Dragons having no motivation and just being evil. They are created by different wishes and the quality of the wish created negative energy to balance the positive energy in them. That explains why the most selfish wish created the noble Sixinglong aka. Nouva Shenron who is a killer but refrains from killing women and children as well as fighting with honor. His brother criticizes him for that even going as far as forcing Nouva to give Goku the finishing blow. Goku, who survived because Nova just melted the ice, would criticize Sanxinglong aka. Eis Shenron for being naive for not doing the job himself. Showing while Eis is irredeemable, he does want his brother to succeed as a proper dragon of their rank as they are related. Even if he would use him as a shield later to defeat Goku.
Goku had a good excuse to use SSJ4 since that form brings him to his adult state which he is the most accustoomed to.
All pure facts. I mean, Majin Vegeta gets a free pass because that was in Z, even though that was for an ENTIRELY selfish reason.
Already one fact convinced me
I loved that he let the machine change him. It's something Toriyama often forgets to acknowledge. None of these warriors grew in power by themselves. Who fed them? Who housed them? Who supported them? They've always had help from Bulma, Chichi, Roshi, etc. They lived in their homes, were raised by them even. The idea that planet Earth could directly influence the growth of the Saiyans has always been core to Dragon Ball, and having Vegeta accept that in his heart in his evolution is an awesome story beat.
as the proclaimed 3rd biggest gt fanboy in the universe, your debunk/analysis somehow made me gain a greater appreciation for gt i didn't even know I could gain. the video is very well thought out and explained and debunks the outright bias mark had in his video, mark went into his video with every intention to hate on gt this is very clearly shown in his review while your video is far more sincere and unbiased, as you said gt isn't for everyone its a flawed series. but gt is a series i will always love and defend no matter what anyone says about it.
Lord Mayo has entered the chat.
SethTheProgrammer just put out a GT video, pure 🔥
Guess that makes me the 4th
And me the 5th
It’s the hidden doubt that people put into your head because they constantly tear down the show even though it was good Work, it was trying to do make your appreciate Dragon ball.
Compared to, super Dad doesn’t want to be mature, it just wants to appeal to fighting nerds that prefer flashy action over meaningful dialogue or fights because who gives shit about you’re fighting. If it’s Your grandma that had it coming the one time she hit you with her walker.
Mark just craps on GT then eats up super like teen titans go
Teen titans go season 1 wasn’t so bad.
@@dannysmi7162 yeah Teen Titans go was watchable with the first few seasons let's say seasons 1-3 or around that
What? He's criticized Super quite a bit.
Most of Mark's criticism in the Black Star Saga is how bizarre things are and I have to disagree on that since you are literally watching Dragon Ball, you can't expect stuff to be 'normal' when they're literally in space, of course there will be bizarre creature and things
Going from eoz and its story to something as the black star saga was bizzare
i mean it was pretty bizarre though. Plenty of bizarre things happen in dragon ball, but a lot of the bizarre things that happen in the black star saga and some of the super android 17 saga are bizarre without cohesion and sometimes are just there to awkwardly drag goku away from the plot.
It's basically just " i wanted this to be very serious dbz " which funnily enough he even said at the start of the video so no wonder he was having this much of a hard time putting up with it .
@@humanman9920 Nah that wasn't quite it. Although i don't completely agree with all he has to say on it, the problem isn't with the idea of lower stakes or comedy in dragon ball, the problem he had was with the execution.
@@MuhammadAli-rw3vn I see what you're saying. But EoZ having Uub being a reincarnation of pink bubble gum?
Seems pretty bizarre to me. But that's OK. It's Dragon Ball.
I do watch Mark's content occasionally, but yeah, you can tell occasionally he takes the 'obligatory GT jab' here and there. I guess if in the Sonic fan base it would be the mandatory '06 is bad' reference. in the end of the day, I respect and like GT for what it tried to do, it took risks and some things didn't pan out, but if you can see past the flaws the series still has a lot of heart to the DB series as a whole.
‘As you may know, Dragon Ball has a rough transition to the 21st century’
Ya know what I miss ?
I miss Saiyan Scholar say " What the hell happened, or How can (character name) be such a DISGRACE to Dragon Ball"
I feel like half of the problem with Geets getting SSJ4 is that it happens off screen, but it’s no different than when he got SSJ in Z. I also love the fact that they went with the original brown hair color emphasized by the light of the aura
It wasn’t off screen, he achieved Super Saiyan 4 in front of everyone
GT Pan > DBZ and DBS Goten and Trunks.
Pure facts. At least Pan has a personality.
I grew up with the original dragon ball before Z, so when i started watching gt it reminded me of how i loved the adventures of the original and instantly made me put my dbz expectations away.
Thank you for making this. I like Mark, I’ve given him support for years. He doesn’t understand Bleach either though. He rushed those videos out to hop on that 2022 Bleach Return Bandwagon and completely misread a lot of the characters. Saying they were unnecessarily involved in certain battles. Bleach is bigger than just the main character. I feel like he had the same mindset with his GT video.
I'm happy I could be of service. I'm happy many in the comments appreciate this video.
that is what you get when you try to cash in on the popularity. Something like a blind review doesn't exist. What he does is either Vlogging or Blogging. Reviews don't regurgitate or summarize what you have seen.
He isn't the only one doing that mistake.
Imo marks problem is he just views things at a very surface level
I didnt like his video on rewriting the Buu saga either. It completely ignores the importance of the events for the characters and why the Saiyaman arc was not pointless nor Gohan not being ment to just solo the arc because of SS2 Teen Gohan. It was just a ridiculous video to me for similar reasons. Rushed and Ignorant.
@@GeteMachinehis perspective are very forward on a POV leven and Fundamental level.
One thing that I think is really underappreciated about GT is Trunks. Or rather, that he wasn't just a copy-and-paste of Future Trunks, which would have been the easy way out. No, GT Trucks has a vastly different personality, which in turn is a direct result of his vastly different upbringing, and I love it.
21:52 To be fair to Mark on this type of “swerve” we are given info that Baby can control people without having to be the host by this point, because of the countless infected members and the big moment where Goten ends up succumbing to the effects later on in his home after Baby infects Gohan. So when this scene arrives we are reminded that Trunks has been infected before, so the dots do connect. So I don’t think its all hate because it’s related to the Black Star Dragon Ball arc. I think he just prefers writing with foreshadowed events rather than surprises with no clues. I do see your perspectives on other things it’s just something I noticed in the video.
There's an important distinction there though, Baby overcame Goten and infected him fully, then left his body of his own volition. Trunks expelled Baby forcefully, so there's no hint that Baby left a piece of him inside Trunks until you learn of the whole egg ability much later into the arc.
@@purerage7963 I mean the fact that Baby was literally controlling mutiple humans at once is a hint that he could control others without being in their body as a host solefully, which is literally in the next episode after Trunks was infected briefly. Then Goten sucumming to the effects is still before the mentions of the eggs. The reveal of the eggs afterwards during the aftermath of Baby Gohan vs Vegeta explains the process but its not that late in the arc and still an entire episode before its revealed Trunks could have been controlled at anypoint if he wanted.
@@KeyLeech What I meant was that since Baby left Goten's body on his own, it's plausible that he left a piece of his goo in him (since that's the mechanism through which we see Baby control people), meanwhile Trunks pushed him out entirely. The twist with the eggs is that Baby left those inside Trunks rather than a bit of his goo, hence why Trunks could not expel it with ki alone and needed the Sacred Water.
@@purerage7963Baby doesn't leave any pieces of goo though, its all eggs, I have no idea where you got this goo thing from, its only himself or the eggs that hatch into other Baby clones. Even if it did I don't even see what your point even is. My original point was saying that Totally Not Mark just seems to like a good swerve and thats it, and since we literally see Baby controlling other people outside of being the primary host, its plausible to be like "Oh that makes sense since he infected Trunks for a period of time, and he didnt activate it since he was collecting the dragonballs still". Like we can come to that conclusion is my main point.
GT to me is Awesome
No Matter if people hate it i love it so much
This is how a debunk video should be presented not pure toxicity like how most debunk videos are today but then again that's just the power scalars
49:33 This is one of the reasons I have a hard time watching Mark. I don't hate him, but it feels like he regularly says things that make it seem he wants things both ways without understanding it just doesn't make sense, and it doesn't help he says this back-to-back.
GT is better sequel to Z than DBS. Far more consistent writing and in animation.
Read the DBS Manga, it’s superior to GT. Also GTS animation is just ok, no stand out moments.
@@DrJareldone standout, ledjic. otherwise, better to have 1 bad, 1 great, and consistently good than oftentimes really bad and just "fix it for the blueray"
Its kinda funny when people say they want adventure style stuff and then get frustrated and say that it's all pointless stuff.
That's what adventure style is: monster/problem of the week that needs to be solved in 2 to 3 episodes and then you move on to the next place.
OG Dragon Ball managed to find a very good balance between adventure and battles, mixing the world tournaments with stuff like the Red Ribbon Army for example.
GT's issue was simply not having really really interesting stuff on it's adventure journey, heck they even reused Oolong mini arc's premise for some reason.
Totally Not Mark's takes are pretty much generic. He doesn't even understand what he's watching. When I heard him saying he had no idea how the black star dragon balls worked I knew he only watched the Funi dub and from there I lost interest and left. I get GT is not for everyone but I seriously wish people would just watch the sub before posting their takes on TH-cam. All he's done is made GT look worse. Like it needed more of that publicity. Thanks for making this video, it's very much needed.
Edit: Sweet jell-o on the hood of a Hummer I knew I was on the money to leave the moment he admitted to not understanding how the Black Star Dragon Balls worked but my gosh listening to him misunderstanding everything in GT was like nails on a chalkboard. Who watches for understanding these days anymore? Smh
He did the same thing to bleach, doesn’t pay attention then says some generic criticism that doesn’t add up if you read/watch the series yourself. Also skips parts from the series that would directly counter his points. (Although that could be on accident because he didn’t pay attention)
He just rides with band wagon. He praises Dragonball Super and hates GT for the SAME REASONS. It is hypocrisy and fan pleasing.
@@sun-noir the dude considers GT and Super mid, he’s said it. In his Super Review he criticized a ton
@@sun-noir bad faith. He's never liked Super that much either and he actually praises GT over Super in many instances.
You should be better than this if you're going to posture.
@@klein8378 For as much effort as Mark puts in his videos he's truly the average Hollywood action flick equivalent of anime takes, just the safest and most popular opinions repeated throughout without any proper arguments.
I like that GT had a nice overarching story mainly hgaving to do with the Machine Mutants. The encounters with them in the Black Star Arc lead into the Baby Arc, the first two arcs are the catalyst to the Super 17 arc, which itself triggers the Shadow Dragons arc.
As someone who loves GT, this video is a blessing
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I get the sense that Mark had GT on in the background but didn’t really watch it
You are the only DB channel because you know the real meaning of canon and continuity while other channels just say "this is non canon" and proceed to the next subject as if they proved anything. They seem to falsely believe that canon means like and non canon means dislike and that only canon is real Dragon Ball while non canon is not.
You on the other hand knows that canon and continuity are simple there to tell what characters and events belong where and why, nothing more, nothing less. Everything that is made by Toriyama, Toei, Bandai etc etc are official Dragon Ball products.
For me Super and gt can't fit into the same continuity. Well, they can, but ho boy are they going to have to do a lot of explaining when they plane to end Super.
Yup! It's like saying parts 7-9 of jojo are bad cos they aren't canon to the og timeline
One more point of how super saiyan 4 is more 'earned' than what mark gave it 'credit' for is based on seth's view of ssj4. It's not enough that you need great strength to transform from golden oozaru to ssj4, it's also implied that love and the desire to protect that offsets the feral power of oozaru is needed. Goku when transforming to oozaru was already thinking of his friends and family, and pan is the final catalyst to help him. Vegeta is the same too, the once prideful warrior has now positively grown to see earth as his home and has selfless desire to protect it helped him turn ssj4. This is why baby couldn't go ssj4, he's the manifestation of the tuffle's hate, all his love he ever had is the support he got from his brainwashed subjects. It's not even a new concept, gohan in the fight against vegeta was about to stomp his own friends as oozaru before goku rekindled his love for friends and family.
I also don't see the point of his critique of the shadow dragons being only evil being a new thing to gt only. Vegeta when we first saw him was just an egomaniac wanting to be the strongest. Frieza is a generic brutal emperor and we loved him, cell's main goal is to kill goku just like the rest of the androids of gero and the evil is on top of it. Majin buu is literally supposed to be just like the shadow dragons on terms of mainfestation. And let's be honest super anime only had one true evil villain that is zamasu.
9:32- 9:38
I thought that was covered. After Oolong wished for Shelong/Shenron to kill Nappa and Vegeta, Shenron stated that wish couldn't be granted because he couldn't grant a wish greater than that of Kami's capabilities. And since Nappa and Vegeta were stronger than Kami that wish was impossible to grant.
I know this is an old comment but scholar said the space pod, not vegeta and nappa unless you think the space pod has a higher power level than kami.
GT: Wow, that was not good and I didn't like it.
Evolution: one of the worst mistakes in DB history.
Super: maybe GT wasn't that bad.
I have and still like the final arc of GT. Having some kind of consequence to over using the dragon balls was awesome. I also think the reason alot of American fans didn't like gt was because they never watched Dragon Ball and by never watching it missed out on what dragon ball was at its beginning. GT to me was trying to go back to its roots. That's way the first arc Is them chasing down the balls just like the original arc.
It's a small thing but I actually really like Vegeta taking Bulmas help. I get the didn't train/earn comments as I feel that a lot of times especially in super. I thought pretty thematic though for Vegeta in getting ss4. At this point vegeta is no longer so self absorbed he is a family man, he'll take any help. A scientist, a non combatant, Burma isn't even a low powered human. Bulma is someone the original vegeta would never take help from. Now she's his wife valued over likely everyone but his children and who helps him reach his apex of power. Vegeta isn't ss4 because of raw power, but growth over the series
And he trains in the gravity chamber like all the time , the " didn't train/earn " is always because there wasn't as much build up as Goku got and the training happened off screen .
It also makes sense that Bulma would be able to create a weapon that could destroy the Z fighters when she's possessed. I think her character was handled pretty well throughout the show.
people in vegeta's mind (gt): bulma, kakarot, trunks gohan and bulla
people in vegeta's mind (super): freeza/kakarot/jiren/beerus/more freeza/more kakarot/even more freeza
I've watched through Mark's review before watching this, and he does make some good points, but is misguided in other areas. At the end of the day, we are all dragonball fans and we can all appreciate it in it's various forms.
Well Said
As someone who loves Dragon Ball GT, I still can't understand people's hatred of GT, it wasn't that bad once you get past the BSDB arc(Seriously, nothing post the Black Star Dragon Ball arc is that bad 💀).
GT was insanely awesome to me, I loved everything about it, especially Super Saiyan 4, yes GT wasn't that good, even worse than Super in some aspects, but GT was truly a gem in the ruff, yeet all the ruff off GT and boom! You got the badass Story that is DB GT.
yeah super 17 arc was garbage but its definitely the type of trash that's so bad, its decent and it has good moments and if im being honest there are arcs in super worse than that lmao
Because they've never read/watch the original Dragon Balls, nor even know it exists. They ignore that GT is a sequel of both Z and DB, not just Z.
I love Marcs content BUT I never, never ever understood his hate for DB GT... GT tried to mix the light hearted style from the original dragonball with the intensity of dragonball Z and managed to do that greatly. In places where tension was necessary, there was tension, in places where fun and adventure was key, there was fun and sillyness and adventure... his issue, just as many others, is a wrong expection that was not met. It is even wilder if you assume how much he apperently loved the original dragonball, yet he gives gt no love for exactly that... it is sad, just sad. I sometimes wonder if we have seen the same show, as my exprience differs so much from his *sigh*
I dont get how GT is supposed to be more like Z, but cant be more like the og? I mean isnt that why the black star arc is mostly skipped? Bcs its adventure style, like the og
Another thing I’m seeing a lot of Dragon Ball fans complain about that Mark mentioned a few times in this video too that’s such a stupid complaint is “the issue of plot convenience and coincidence” this literally happens in every form of media…. From movies to television, to video game stories. It’s part of helping plots move forward and isn’t just a dragon ball exclusive concept. I hate how a lot of people are starting to hold that over Dragon Ball’s (not just GT) head all the sudden because it’s really a dumb thing to complain about and only call Dragon Ball out for. Also he complained about Baby Vegeta growing a tail yet didn’t have an issue with Kid Gohan’s tail literally falling out his ass during the Saiyan saga fight with Vegeta
Is it stupid? It does happen yes but when it happens a lot? Eh...it can be a issue. The difference is Baby Vegeta grew a tail years after his last one was cut off...so it seemed like he stopped growing tails for good, unlike Goku or Gohan the first time.
@@Jdudec367 true, his tail was gone longer than Gohan’s
In TNM review for DBZ he literally mentions that it has an issue with coincidence.
GT was the first to start the "consequences" plot line. Super only followed suit with adding gods to the mix.
Yes - Pan's potential wasted, that one episode with beat boxing dancers was not really needed (even though it was a good kind of weird), and after the series end along with the Future Descendant special there was no more information to figure out what happened in between the 100 years that had Grandma Pan taking care of Goku Jr.
But - Pan is a staunch fighter who is pretty ballsy for her age, Goku HAD to find a new power-up in order to take on a new threat since in his child form he only has the Super Saiyan power-ups, Goku discovering the most awesome power-up in the series (Super Saiyan 4), and there are massive stakes at play that surrounded an over arching plot (minus the Super 17 battle as it's not connected to the same plot).
I still like GT to this day and it's a shame that we didn't get more for the time skip special (Dragonball GT:AF) because it would be a new adventure and different Goku.
Grandma Pan Would've Had An Heart Attack Seeing DBS Goku
It's so much more thematic to have it be the Dragon Balls though. It got to the point where they were like "Well, let's let this villain do what they want until we are ready to fight them, and we can fix everything with the Dragon Balls.
As flawed as GT is, I see it as a great combo of what both dragon ball & Dragon ball Z did
28:36
Mark... WTF...
Bulma created a f*cking TIME MACHINE!!! Why is a Blutz Wave machine so unheard of!?
She created a time machine in years Here she creates waves machine in the middle of the fight like in 15minutes
It took years cause she was building it in the apocalypse with androids blowing everything up. She built this in a protected area with literally everything she needed.
@@mouadchaglalchimistefullme6116 Dang, so I guess all the stuff she was able to do and invent in Z on short notice is just as bad.
On the other hand, you do know Blutz waves in the Dragon Ball universe has been around since original Dragon Ball, as they are what cause the Great Ape transformation, and are a natural source. All she basically built was a Blutz Wave director, a magnifying glass if you will, for Blutz Waves.
The issue i have with marks videos is they way he presents a lot of his praise/criticism where he tries to make it seem objective when by its nature critiques are subjective, what makes a certain scene or arc effective just isn’t the same for everyone, but he tends to frame his critiques around some objective view of how things should be done (i.e goku having been aged up so he’d make for a better action protagonist) and this creates a sense within a community where because his opinions are “backed up” they are more valid and makes people more willing to jump into bandwagons rather than forming their own opinions.
I couldn't agree more, that is one thing that annoyed me with Mark's reviews sometines, how he acts as if he is atleast trying to be unbiased and objective, but in reality he isn't, which isn't a problem on itself but the way he present things are really misleading, and his bias really shows in pretty much all of his super and Gt reviews, he criticises gt for the most miniscule of problems yet lets super get a pass with so much crap, i didn't even noticed it at first until i watched Swagkage's reviews on super who i think do a good job at pointing out pretty much all the flaws of super in a way more unbiased and fair way, even though swagkage is very open on how he doesn't like super
I don't get that, I feel like his critiques are as valid and subjective as anyone else's, I don't really get a Mauler vibe from him where he tries to frame everything under an objective lense.
@obsu I agree, the differences between these critiques are mark is going from a critical story analysis, where as this video is looking from a more emotional standpoint. Stating things don't make sense because it will come back later does not change the fact that it's bad writing or directionless, it just is something people use to help explain why the bad decisions can make sense
@@arthuralexander1449From what I remember he criticized Super just as much as GT hell the first 2 videos were basically him shitting on super and from there a pretty consistent critique of the show
Like with z broly all show no content that is super in a nutshell
Piccolo didn't "help Goku relearn how to do Instant Transmission." He gave Goku enough energy to do it after he ran out using SS4. I have no idea how that can't be seen.
Yo Saiyan scholar is the only youtuber I can trust to give sensible,deeper info and perspectives about DBGT
I'm praying somewhat Mark responds to this, SS says what's completely on my mind here and says it better than I ever could.
@@ralsei3157 THIS. I love Mark but his GT review was pretty unfair, especially some of his criticisms of the Black Star and Super 17 arc
Saiyan scholar is the best DB analysis channel tbh.
@@MaxiemumKarnage Ikr , i generally like his reviews but this was one of the very few times it just didn't look like he even went into it with an open mind like he claims to , other than misinformed opinions and false or self contradictory logic to call things bad he seemed too eager to poke the things in it.
Just don't ask him to powerscale lmao
Like I know they said they aren't going to continue Dragon Ball Abridged but I always had this thought. Goku teleported with cell to king kai's planet and blew it up. Well King Kai would be pisted at him for destroying his planet and killing him. So when Goku was there for 7 years King Kai would make Goku train none stop without sleeping or eating.
just came here from watching mark's buu arc review and what u said here at the start abt how unreasonably harsh ppl are on GT rings so true. again, no hate to mark, and I get his Z review series was meant to be more of a "love letter" than a review but to me the double standard is...palpable.
in the super 17 arc mark said piccolo's telepathy powers came out of nowhere, but in the buu arc he specifically praised the scene of him telepathically communicating w/ goten and trunks.
in the shadow dragons arc mark pointed out how pan and most of the cast got sidelined in the final fight, but didn't say anything abt the buu arc completely throwing half the characters away (though he did talk abt gohan's misuse).
again in the shadow dragons arc he said "the shadow dragons are evil just bc, they have no motivation" while he praises buu for just being a pure evil creature.
idk maybe this just was bothersome to me bc I personally think the buu arc is worse than any arc in GT--just me tho
The dragon ball community needs more amazing videos like these
I love Mark's channel and been following him for years, but I do tend to take some negativity with his GT review. With his OG Dragon Ball and Z reviews, he's watched those shows and has a very deep understanding of them in manga and anime, but with GT only has a surface level view of it. As Saiyan Scholar has seen GT multiple times, he has a very in-depth view of the show that others don't, just like Mark does with original db and z. So not giving GT that same approach sorta gives Mark's review a dishonest and kinda lazy feel to it. It doesn't feel like he's trying to form his own in depth opinion as he usually does but is purely trying to appeal to the fanbase that dislikes GT. To his defense, if you're a huge dragon ball fan but never gave GT a full watch, you too would be influenced over the years by the toxic part of the fandom that GT is a terrible show with nothing good about it and you're a fake fan for liking it.
GT has always been my favorite of all Dragon Ball and watching it with my son as a grown woman and being able to understand the story from a new perspective has made me love it even more
I would also like to point out that Pilaf likely only got to the lookout because of Goku and Uub's fight distracting Dende and Popo.
I remember Pilaf saying things like this was a diversion or something.
Also at 45:43 minutes to remind you of what Omega Shenron would say, to quote Saiyan Scholar in one of his previous videos:
Vegeta.........................YOU'RE A GODDAMN DISGRACE!!!!!!
And on that note, I appreciate how respectful you were with the debunking.
I think I know where the GT haters are getting their credible GT knowledge from! From the Game Boy Advance Video Dragon Ball GT Packs!
SMH the gt slander never ends
While I disagree with this review at some points and personally don't like GT from when I was a kid, you gave some very interesting points that made me think differently about some aspects of the show. Good video man.
Thanks for watching and listening. Some don't!
I've been praying for this and it manifested 🙏
I actually like gt more then super honestly. GT goku was the character I was use too. In super he put people in danger because of his desire to fight powerful opponents. Even though super has awesome transformations. I prefer the simplicity of GT. Super sayain 4 was an awesome design for 2 full sayains.
There's nothing wrong with liking GT or super and there's nothing wrong with not liking them either just saying
I actually got into Dragon Ball by watching OG Dragon Ball, but GT still holds a special place for me...
Okay I hear you
But moustached Vegeta is the best part of GT
A lot of people get this one wrong , and i understand how they feel , but they don't know what to criticise and choose the wrong thing .
Vegeta didn't get much buildup to ssj4 right before the moment he got it and it felt a bit anticlimactic , but the machine being used to transform him into an Ozaru isn't wrong at all , people just forget basic logic to express their emotions on this one .
I wouldn't want some weird nonsensical ozaru transformation where he just transforms into it by screaming or something , there are other ways that moment could've felt more climactic like Omega interrupting the transformation and attacking him in golden ozaru , it wouldn't be out of his character either to just beat around someone without killing them as he does that later too and is arrogant , followed up with a more lengthened inner monologue of Vegeta and everyone else trying to remind him his purpose , with Omega not giving him time to calm down either and continuously making it harder for him to do it , then something like Goku somehow keeping him busy for a short moment and Vegeta finally getting it .
Goku's version feels so awesome because he was beaten to a pulp , a second time at that and looking at earth in a helpless state when the process started , struggled a lot before he getting it finally with Pan's help , compared to that Vegeta's version felt underwhelming cuz his buildup was just the training which happened off screen , so it definitely could've been executed better for Vegeta , but the machine had LITERALLY NOTHING to do with this shortcoming .
It fits that they showed Vegeta gaining back the control much easily compared to Goku cuz back then he could fully control regular ozaru , but he still should've gotten some kind of struggle so Omega interrupting would be the perfect thing .
Pretty much entirely agreed. Anime fans generally get into arguments (petty ones especially) because they have an idea of what they want but don't know how to express it. With Vegeta getting SSJ4 they tend to emphasize the lack of a struggle factor which Vegeta is known for bringing to the table, but GT Vegeta is more composed and subdued than Z Vegeta. If Vegeta struggled like you suggested, and his transformation further emphasized the difficulty in mastering Golden Oozaru which was only shown on the outside with Goku, then more people would've had that subconscious desire fulfilled and that transformation and the need for the Blutz Wave Machine would be accepted. Logic is important but emotion is what drives personal investment.
Shadow Dragons are a homage to King Piccolo and his children nocap
Bc of the recent drama with SethTheProgramer I was incredibly worried for some reason despite really liking your content. Glad you're still one of my favs even if you're not one of the most popular. As someone who grew up on GT with a ton of appreciation towards it like you do, I was slightly concerned at first, but I'm glad at how maturely you handled this as I watch both of your channels a lot. Thank you for showing that these kinda "debunked" videos can be perfectly civil and respectful in terms of critiques. Everyone is allowed a different opinion and in this time of utterly stupid and needless dragon ball drama, I'm glad a regular discussion on the series can be had despite differing opinions without outright shame being thrown towards the differing party. Like I said, I love Mark's content and he's actually helped me become closer with some of my irl friends bc of our love of his material, but people's interpretations of material is their own and able to be taken as valid just as someone else's. I like GT a lot more than Mark does but he doesn't shame anyone for liking it and I'm glad you share the opposite opinion in terms of really liking it but not shaming someone for disliking it bc there's plenty of points for either direction
The Bulma point is so true because without Bulma and some of her feats they wouldn't be alive. Going back to original Dragon Ball they would have had to walk everywhere without the capsules. Not to mention she invented time travel lol
I never could like GT or Super. That said I did apprecaite two things. 1) The callback to the savage saiyan history with the Golden Oozaru. 2) GT had the balls to actually give Goku an ending and stopping.
The only things i didn't like about GT was Goku being a kid again, the rushed Super Android 17 saga and Pan not going super saiyan.
I don't have anything against Mark personally but I didn't enjoy that particular video of his at all, it honestly felt like he was being INCREDIBLY biased against GT the entire time right from the get go. It's one thing not to like GT in general, you're allowed to have that opinion. However it's another thing to be SO critical of EVERY SINGLE THING that happens in the show to the point that it just straight up sounds like he's CONSTANTLY looking for something to nitpick or looking for even the smallest thing to hold against the show. It might just be me but it just felt like he was hating on it the entire time just for the sake of hating on it. I don't even remember him being this negative when he did a review on Super. Honestly props to Saiyan Scholar for going through the entire video with a calm and respectful attitude, he shared his disagreement in a calm and civil manner which I think is a rarity on the internet.
GT is Legit boring up until the baby arc, but Super just sucks. Super has ZERO good arcs imo.
Now this is a good take.
For someone named Mark, boy did he miss it.
Not really
@@MuhammadAli-rw3vn care to elaborate?
@@MuhammadAli-rw3vn Dude hasn't seen GT in 15 years, and decides to make a video on it while spouting a constant stream of shit takes and falsehoods.
I would expect Screenrant or CBR to make a video like that.
@@inkchariot6147 So everything he said was bs in ur opinion?
@@MuhammadAli-rw3vn The majority of what he said was bs.
i love scholar lol Got me liking gt even more
Ribrianne is the absolute worst cartoon character of all time. I agree.
It's nice having someone view GT with an open mind and make reasonable arguments. I will agree that while GT isn't super amazing, it isn't bad either; it's a fun show with many good and rememberable moments. Some people just lime to take a surface level look at it and bash it for no reason than just because coughtfscough.
Still think the show overall is mediocre overall. Do like baby arc, oddly 17 arc, and shadow dragon arc
i said it on mark's vid, but i'll slightly elaborate here: the funimation dub of this show is bad and i love it
Both versions are good in their own ways
Respect
These documentary type commentaries on cartoons amuse me. Keep up the good work lol
i dont understand the hate for gt because its nOt cAnOn . i liked it . the inly thing i hated is everybody sippin tea while goku and pan fight with the shadow dragons
Totally not mark is a One Piece fanboy now🤦♂️🤦♂️This mark is different than the OG Dragon Ball Mark back in the days👀
The reach is CRAZY
@Saiyan Scholar,
I like Gt, but also that ENTIRE Movie timeline 🔥
1) O.G. 3 (or 4) O.G. D.B. movies
2) O.G. 13 Dbz Movies (including off screen Saga events & Movie Timeline version of Bardock & Future Trunks events)
3) Dragon Ball Gt
You gave it worthy justice. I actually don't like Dragon Ball Super and absolutely love Dragon Ball GT. And before someone will tell me "GT is not cannon super is." I don't care I love GT for what it is. My ranking for the parts of the franchise: 1.DBZ 2.DB 3.DBGT 4.DBS.
If I have to explain my frustration with how inconsistent marks view of dragon Ball is
Roshi: I can never read that guy
I cant hate Dragon Ball GT even if it's bad, I grew up watching this show every Sunday with my mom when she was still alive, I still remember the good times watching anime with her.
Btw, Latín American dub for the win
I roped my grandfather into watching it with me 😆
The biggest irony is people hating GT when Toriyama liked it and played a part in its creation. Like how everyone said they were bored to death by the black star dragon ball arc, but who made that? Toriyama. Also had the idea to make Trunks pretend to be a bride like goku did, also didn’t end well because most fans hated that. He also loved super saiyan 4 and made his own Art of it, by the end of the day he called it a Grand Side Story. Much better than a “casual continuation” like super.
Yeah people say it's bad because Toriyama wasn't much involved but ironically the part where he was most involved and had influenced the most is the most hated arc . I get that it had a bad pacing but i don't dislike the idea , i just take what i can and with some difficulty , accept it and appreciate the cool character interactions and subtle development the characters got in that arc , wouldn't even be hard to fly through the boring parts if there was some other mini plot going on at earth and some fights happened with these other characters time to time till the space adventure really kicked off .
Eh i still prefer the casual continuation over GT at least the side character's can get spotlight in Super while in GT everyone got reverted into a battery for goku.
@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 so Super hasn’t? Z was the last time characters other than goku hasn’t been fodderized. They acted like a battery in super as well you know? Super Saiyan God, Frieza’s return, Super Spirit Bomb during T.O.P., Jumpstart ultra Instinct goku and replenish energy & so on. Not to mention GT & Super both use the other Z-Fighters for large numbers battles. The difference? GT didn’t hype up other characters like they were going to be relevant like Super did; Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, Gohan, Majin Buu & Broly.
@@jonathanmcmarion3777 Yes Super hasn't look at Gohan beast and Piccolo a movie dedicated to them and now we're getting an arc dedicated to goten and trunks, can you show me anything notable Gohan and Piccolo did in GT besides getting their cranium split open? Broly is relevant he had a whole movie dedicated to him as well Lols majin buu molly whopped Moro and forced him to retreat and Uub played a big role in finally stopping Moro. Vegeta has gotten his own forms without following Goku's footsteps(like he did in GT again) and has a few wins in Super while in GT Vegeta only beat nappa and was molly whopped by everyone else.
What does Toriyama liking it have to do with anything?
SCHOLAR, YOU HAVE NO IDEA, IVE DREAMED ABOUT YOU DEBATING WITH SOME OF THESE CLOWNS ABOUT GT
As someone who thought Vegeta cheated as a kid, now that I am older see how it was always obtainable for Vegeta. I apologize.
The set up for the shadow dragon arc is my favorite of GT. Showing their were a backlash from constantly saying we can wish them back using the balls. The idea that loops back to the ideas talked about in Dragon Ball for how hard it is to find the balls, so they are given their time to disperse the negative build up. I also love that the 4 star ball being important as Nova is the dragon Goku has the connection with. As it was Grampa's ball. I love that the movie ends after Goku Jr. finds the 4 star.
The only thing I find amazing is the Son and Brief families ever not being friends forever.
8:50 feels like such a huge reach.
1. They dont know about the negative energy produced from wishes at that time
On the second point i dont remember then ever stating you need the black star balls to turn goku back, wasnt he just indifferent to being a kid again?
Thank you for this Scholar, I and everyone else needed this Analysis video
His whole video was just hate tho 😂 it seems like he hates it cause everybody else does .he gave no valid reasons why he hates it.
I grew up with watching GT on toonami so I’ve never personally hated it and never got why it gets so much hate. Was it perfect? No… Did it have issues? Of course but I don’t think it was bad enough to deserve the hate GT gets today. To me it was a let down as a follow up to Z but it was a decent show in it’s own rights. I also just recently watched GT Sub and wow the difference is night and day especially with the script. Watching Sub version made me like GT even more than I already did. Main thing that I did dislike about GT as a kid was the reverting Goku back to a kid which was fixed with the introduction of SSJ4 but honestly I wish they would’ve either treated SSJ4 like a base form for him and kept him like that permanently for the series or had the SSJ4 transformation completely nullify the wish of him being turned into a kid and let him have his normal base form adult body because it was kinda weird for him to keep swapping back and forth between a kid body and an adult body
I first watched GT when I seen the VHS tape for it at the store and mistook it for Dragon Ball Z. still was not disappointed at all since it was still Dragon Ball.
@@brandonking5111 exactly, as a kid and he’ll even still now, I’m happy to get anything Dragon Ball which is also why I don’t hate on Super. I grew up in a period where the only Dragon Ball content we got was video games for a whole decade so to think that new Dragon Ball content is being made after growing up in that dark age is enough to make me happy lol
Dude you handled this is so much more maturely than I ever would have XD. Like i don't mind Mark disliking GT, sure but his reasons for disliking it are questionable and kinda hypocritical. Literally all the issues he has with GT, he will let slide when it comes to Super.
Good job countering most of his points and I admire how fast you got this out.
Have you...seen his Super review? He criticizes the HELL out of Super.
Mark is just one of the many drones you get from the dragon ball community.
@@shadowblitzo123 Why? Cause he prefers Super to GT? Didn't realize opinions were illegal in the DB fanbase
@@ARC--5973 there's "fans" and then there's true fans. You most likely follow the former
@@ARC--5973 You don't get it , there's a bunch to criticise so of course he does , but he doesn't seem as misinformed or as eager to poke anything about it as he seemed in this one . And no problem , it's understandable everyone has preferences but it needs to be pointed out .
One other thing is that debunking something based on their definition of filler is fairly pointless nowadays as so many different people each have their different definitions on that term.