I am 37 years old. First watched DBZ in 2000, when I was 13. Immediately fell in love. Over the coming years, I became a Dragonball encyclopedia, watching and reading everything regarding it. The sheer gravitas of that early writing gives me goosebumps today. One of my coworkers is 21. He asked me if I've played the new Dragonball game. "Oh, so you like Dragonball?" I asked. He nodded. "Yeah, like. I'm a big fan." "I will never forget," I said, probably glowing, "watching them struggle, so scared, against Freiza, and then Goku going Super Saiyan, so epic. Or Gohan going SS2 that first time, just electric." "Oh, I've never seen that," he said. He went on to explain that he had never seen Dragonball or Dragonball Z (or GT, for that matter). The only media he's consumed of Dragonball was just Super. As you can imagine, I practically melted. So I hooked him up with the series and advised he start at the beginning and just take his time. Later I saw him. "Hey, gotten a chance to watch any of it?" He said, "Yeah, I've watched a lot of the start, when Goku is a little kid." He noted my happy expression and added, "But it really sucks so far, it is so boring." "BORING??!" I said, jokingly pissed. "You think this stuff is boring but you watch Dragonball Super??" In my head I was comparing the 21st Tenkaichi Budōkai arc to the Goku Black arc and not at all sympathizing with his opinion. "I just like the transformations, they're cool," he said. And that's where I think we are with Dragonball these days; that's 100% what the story is now. No regard for story, no regard for character, no regard for gravitas. It's all colors and lights. ... back when I saw a kid, we had colors and lights, but we also had story, character, and gravitas.
When gohan turned super saiyan 2, it felt monumental and well deserved. All the training and hidden potential had finally peaked. Now these characters just get ss2 for nothing!
@This Is Tohma as bad as it is, at least he didn't use the damn tingly back and was the fusion of two saiyans with the biggest potential. It isn't good writing, but supers writing isn't any better
@This Is Tohma gotenks is a fusion. Caulifia is a single fighter. Goten and trunks are the hybrid saiyan offsprings of two of the most powerful fighters in the universe. Caulifia is a nobody who is stated to be a prodigy to protect the bad writing and justify her devaluing the transformations we grew up admiring
Watching other TH-camrs gaslight themselves and shill for the show - not sure if it's because they are acting like abused girlfriends of Toei or because their income requires Super's success - but it's the saddest crap. They legitimately try to power scale this crap. Like what? Bro Roshi fought Jiren. Stop even trying, they killed it. It's dead. Let it be dead.
God Ki is just a normal Ki with an extra shiny painting if it can be beaten by a Normal Ki, plus if you're SSB shouldn't it be able to use the regeneration ability that SSG had? What even God Ki at this point.
Exactly When Goku acquired god form I expected that to be a new tier in power which sparked the beginning of a new journey into a whole new world of power for Goku and soon to follow after, obviously Vegeta and at least the rest of the Saiyans, that set them in a league seperate from and untouchable by mortals without God Ki. Thus the new adventures and challenges of Super revolving around that and showing us a new side of the dragonball universe. (Zamasu at least fits into this. I haven’t straight up read the nee manga but from my understanding Morro fits into this) Only for them to be portrayed getting smacked around by super saiyan “prodigies”
The earrings had a time limit like in the bus saga. The earrings were barely enough to keep the fusion stable since fusion wasn't technically supposed to happen with them, they weren't made for it. So the increase in power decreasing the time makes sense, since they weren't designed for neither fusion nor the godly power of SSJ Blue. Feel free to correct me on this
@@Vidvidambusgame Wrong. Originally, the Potara were supposed to keep Goku and Vegeta fused forever. Them unfusing inside of buu was for plot convience. Then super came along and retconned everything.
Just the fact that Goku would EVER let a bunch of universes be in danger of eraser including his own is so ridiculous. All his friends should literally hate him after that 👀 and people say him throwing cell a senzu bean was bad...
But don't you get it? They were gonna erase it all anyway so this was a good thing for everyone to get a fighting chance. Who cares if Goku didn't actually know that would be the case until later, he can't be held accountable! Bleh.
@@motherplayer i know you are being sarcastic but God I despise that line of reasoning sooooo fucking much whenever people try to legitimately use that as a valid excuse 😑😑😑
@@sammydray5919 That's literally the story line though. Either way he never asked for those potential consequences. He just wanted to participate in a tournament and that was dropped on him at which point he couldn't back out. So what exactly is your complaint?
Goku gave them a chance at redemption. Also they weren't going to be destroyed forever. The only universe with a chance of destruction was the winning one that didn't wish for the other universes to re exist. Since they wished for the restoration, nobody perishes. Grand priest said so.
@@beantea5592 Lol even though he didn't knew that the universe who lose will be erased, he still didn't realized the real situation he was in and acted like it was another Sunday
A large part of the problem with Super is that everyone needs to be on par with Blue but how's everyone supposed to compete against characters with a lot of power & experience like Goku & Vegeta. Kale & Caulifla went from not knowing about Super Saiyan to being able to beat Blue within a few episodes. The same can be said of characters like: 17, Frieza, Broly, & even Toppo too
imo I would exclude frieza as he is a prodigy since the start toppo and broly is questionable but toppo is a training god of destruction and for broly idk android 17 shouldn’t be able to match blue regardless of his infinite energy or the amount of training
Frieza having that rate of growth makes sense because being a prodigy who never trained is in line with his character, which is that royalty shouldn't have to train, hard work is for peasants, etc. As for Android 17, as stated above he went from being a regular human who probably never did any martial arts to being above Super Saiyan level just with Earth technology. It stands to reason that his rate of growth from training would be similar to Frieza's, and with infinite ki he can do it all day.
I equate it to Kale, Caulifla, and Cabba having a similar amount of knowledge of how to manipulate their ki like Goku and Vegeta do, and all they really needed was someone to do it in front of them so that they can execute it the same way. Kinda like getting the basics of something down but seeing something advanced would urge you to attempt to do it too.
This sums up a lot of my feelings on Super. I remember watching Battle of Gods and actually being interested in what this new era of DB would bring, Goku screaming "I will not let you destroy my world" was the closest anything after GT had come to making me feel something. I knew something was wrong when F came out and there was already a new form, then Whis completely undermining the stakes of the world getting destroyed and things only became worse from there. I laughed when they re-did Vegeta's final explosion in the ToP but he just survives because he's stronger now or whatever. Surface level nostalgia, zero stakes, going through the motions. No thought or care as to what the moment should mean for the character.
@@michaelperrigo facts only thing they did was insult your intelligence and made fighters gaining new forms extremely pointless if they were just going to wish everything back
@@michaelperrigo you even have the higher beings in the universe GIVING fighters (Gohan) power w/o training the same person who gave Gohan power also gives his life up for Goku 😂
Bro are you watching me?? How are you uploading these bangers as soon as I get off work and sit down with a plate of food?? God bless man, absolute veteran behavior as usual Scholar.
@@mcgeeyeeeyeee That's because he never gave that speech lmao. That was a dub only thing. Why would the people writing DBS in Japan reference something Goku never said?
It needs more then writing, the arts bad, the animation is bad, the fights are horrible to watch, it’s sounds terrible, the music sucks, it’s just a complete disaster. GT is off the hook super is the worst. Dbz cost 55k per ep, dbs cost 180k per ep nothing can make this better other then erasing it from reality
The Zeno button.. That is the pinnacle of stupidity. Any threat that bestowed, on our heroes, have defaulted on a button.. Zeno will save the day! Tragedy no more!
Honestly, the Zeno button was used one time in Super and it became very clear why you never call Zeno out to handle things. Because he nuked the timeline that Future Trunks came from and it one of the only times things weren't magically fixed with the Dragon Balls. Everyone acts like Goku pushed the Zeno Button every arc and don't even bother to look at the context of why it was pushed or the massive fallout that happened.
@@caryslan5890 The writers of Super, underwhelmed the plot and character development. Zeno is the end all spectacle.. It's a step up to the dragon balls, and wishing everyone back to life. Zeno, is the ultimate form.
I remember being really dissapointed by Yamcha not participating in the tournament (for context, I watched the original DB before Z and he's my favorite character) but then I saw what Tien's role was and I realised maybe it was for the better, it's one of those weird cases where literally "nothing" is better than such degrading participation.
@@ohhellwhereami2574 That was a cool moment...that was taken away by that fucking death pose that has been overused to years and just done for meme purposes from people from a country where their comedy is running a joke into the ground. Yamcha didn't get to be cool again until fucking Moro. From Saiyan Saga to Moro that is 25 years of being the joke of the cast.
@@Violent_Wolfen he wasn’t that cool in db tho, he always got beat in the first round of every tournament in a degrading way, he didn’t rlly do much against king piccolo or any of piccolos kids or the red ribbon army. His only good moments were in fortune teller baba and pilaf arcs. But yea they been doing him even worse since then.
Words cannot describe how cathartic this video made me feel. Finally, someone else who gets it. DBS as a whole is TRASH, and you gave 100% valid reasons as to why it's trash. Unfortunately, all of the ignorant DBS fanboys will storm this comment section without even watching the video and start off going: "wElL, aCkShUaLlY DBS iS gOoD cUz (insert invalid reason here)". I've seen it time and time again. These same idiots tell me I'm just nostalgia blind to the old stuff. News flash, I never left. There is no nostalgia. Z is good, because IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD. Same with Ball, I didn't watch it until I was in my 20s, and you know what? It's easily a much better show than Super is. GT too. Sure, GT's execution could use some work, but damn, the amount of love put into that show is painfully obvious. Yet, the Super fanboys only focus on Vegeta's moustache and/or leather pants. Goku being a little kid. And of course, the whole "iT's NoNcAnOn" thing. As if these people understand what continuity is, or even watched the old stuff.
Ultra Instinct and Muten Roshi's big moment in the tournament of power both deserved to be in a better show FR (also the moment where Tenshinhan's finally uses his technuiqe that allows him to summon multiple arms again)
It is non canon but makes Goku young physically DBS is canon but makes Goku young mentally I'll take the non canon physically young one anytime since it isn't making Goku dumb af like the canon (anime i must add) did.. like they made his IQ like Luffy's 💀💀💀
@@wesxd5292 we'll toriyama totally said it was canon back in the day..it was officially licensed by toei Funimation Konami bird studios shuesha etc. It was in all the games and TBH even if there was and is a DBS manga it literally can't be canon because it ret cons it's source material. GT is in the same canonical timeline.
0:40 The only moment that came close to being peak Dragon Ball for me was Goku and Frieza teaming up against Jiren in Episode 131. Matter of fact that whole episode was perfect, if all of DBS had the same quality put into it we'd have no complaints.
That's the moment I hated the most tbh .. it should've been Vegeta and Goku .. i don't really care that much about Vegeta's character but the author should give the man some respect
@@kumarayush9950 Facts about Vegeta but I was good with this particular choice because Goku and Vegeta already paired up multiple times in the TOP so it wouldn't have had the same weight as seeing Goku and Frieza for the first time. Goku also needed to validate himself for picking Frieza in the first place, he took a lot of heat for that so it had to make a much bigger difference than just taking Fat Buu's spot.
@@lanigironu9842 would've absolutely loved Goku and Gohan tbh .. but Frieza finish was the worst imo .. if they wanted to give him a moment then they would've made him beat Dyspo
That moment when Goku is in base form but you can see his hair flicker gold as he struggles to go super saiyan, mustering every last ounce of strength in him . . . damn. DBS needed more moments like that.
The attempt to alter Dragon Ball Z history is what really annoys me about Dragon Ball Super. A couple of examples are: they changed the power of the potara earrings from being used forever to just being used for a short period of time. They changed the history about Freiza destroying planet Vegetea because he was afraid of a Sayain rising and defeating him. Beerus gave Frieaza the order to destroy planet Vegeta.
I tried... But after whatever black Goku 's story, I was out. The story is so incredibly bad, and the stakes so ridiculously over the top for no reasons. GT was ... Better.
My list of things I HATE about Super. - Vegeta's redundant banter and same old egocentric and overconfident attitude all that character growth in Z and it hasn't shown. - Goku being dumber. - Poor animation quality I wanted the whole series to look as good as Battle of Gods and Resurrection F. - Giving Krillin the raw end of the deal in the Tournament of Power. - I hate Zamasu and all his talk about God's and Mortals LIKE WE HAVEN"T ALREADY HEARD THAT NOISE A MILLION TIMES ALREADY!!! (Honestly I think he's worst then Vegeta bout talking about himself). - Bulma and Chichi being at their worst in this series. - SUPER SAIYAN GOD NO LONGER LIVING UP TO THE HYPE AND BEING OUTGUNNED BY A STUPID RECOLOR OF A WAY BETTER FORM!!! (although I think it looks better on Vegeta then it does Goku). - Beerus pulling the same lying crap that Master Roshi did with the unnecessary Monaka in order to inspire Goku. -The Omni King being introduced and people are ranking now him as the strongest in Dragon Ball History it completely diminishes Goku as the best in all of Dragon Ball. - Goku being the most selfish he's ever been and it's made me lose respect for him (although they did bring back the whole multiverse in the end). - The Gods not acting like gods but more like pompous brats. - THE FACT THAT THEY KEEP SIDELINING THE FAN FAVORITE Z FIGHTERS AGAIN!!!. Verdict: At the end of the day Super is not the Dragon Ball I was introduced to back when I played Budokai 3 it just doesn't feel like Dragon Ball to me it's an utter redundant mess honestly I think GT is way better it gave us the best ending in the series and it should've stopped there before it got stupid although I do love Battle of Gods and DBS Broly I can do without the rest of Super I'm not giving any praise to this insult to the series although I do like a lot of things that Super did for the series for me the cons out way the pros the OG Dragon Ball Trilogy Dragon Ball, Z, and GT is still the best you wanna know how I can come back to Dragon Ball with open happy arms?. Fix the mess that Super made.
@@Animesaga376 Because it's trash. Super compared to previous Dragon Ball shows; sucks. You can tell they're out of ideas, and it was just a big cash grab. SSJ 1,2,3, God red, God Blue, Ultra Instinct. What next? Purple, green, pink, orange? 🤭😆😂😂😂😂😂 Lame. The story arcs are boring as F***. Mostly tournaments and some lame villains. The last arc was the only good thing about this show.
I don’t think that db super is the worst disaster in anime history. Definitely kentaro miura dying with berserk unfinished is. Togashi having to quit writing and drawing yu yu hakusho because of the demands of the industry and failing health is worse than super. I think what you’re saying about super is right because it makes the rest of the dragon ball franchise look bad. People already don’t take dragon ball seriously enough but the fact that super exists just makes their opinions on dragon ball seem legitimate. Other anime disasters: Toei animation drawing out the one piece anime, making it unwatchable. Shonen jump cutting tite kubo’s time to finish up the final bleach arc. Kishimoto ruining his entire series by killing off his greatest villain only to replace it with a lame villain, just for a cheap plot twist. Boruto and dragon ball super are both ruining the respective source material of their original series. Plus they are just unwatchable sequels that only take the most corny, cringy, and stereotypical aspects of their original series.
Those are all disasters - but you're comparing the Great Flood to a bunch of storms. They are not alike. DB is the grandaddy of Shonen, to have it corpse dug up and desecrated like this for the viewing pleasure of little kids is just ... it might not be a disaster _to you perosnally_ but it's the overall biggest. Most of those shows you listed are DB's sons
I feel like GT suffered mainly from arcs being too short. The entirety of GT had as many episodes as a single Z arc lol, there wasn't enough build up for anything. The concepts were awesome, with the first part being basically a throwback to OG Dragon Ball, the evil dragons meaning there's actually consequences for using the dragon balls, SSJ4 being a form that makes sense because it's what a saiyan should have looked like from the start imo, there was a lot to like there, a lot of creativity went into it. They just rushed it too hard.
Toriyama just hasn't cared for a LONG time and toei has NEVER cared about it, just the cash. With these facts I don't know why it took them 2 decades to make this money grubbing trash. Gts excuse for being bad was toriyama wasn't completely involved. What's the excuse for Super? They actually made something WORSE than gt. Almost feels like they're punishing us for shitting on it all these years.
Can we talk for a moment about t.o.p rule "no killing". In dragonball... In a tournament... Where universes get erased... No killing... DOESN'T MAKE FUCKING SENSE
The thing that made me love the manga and forgive some of the issues with it in the beginning is that since the anime got ahead of the manga during U6 arc, Toyotaro at least tried to clean up and clear up some of the things that didn’t make sense in anime such as explaining why Vegeta loss so quickly to Hit. He also had the pressure of expectations following up after the anime because for example, Vegito Blue being used was Toei’s idea and wasn’t actually in Toriyama’s outline but because fans were so hyped about Vegito’s return, Toyotaro included him in the manga too but did the correct way of making Vegito dominate Zamasu the whole fight. I give the man credit because not only was he dealing with criticism (some justifiable) he also had to follow fans expectations from the anime while also trying to stay true to Toriyama’s outline while also trying to fix some of the issues and lack of explanations the anime did. Super definitely needs to stick to manga first, then anime especially since Toriyama is actually much more involved in helping Toyotaro than he was with Toei’s staff so if anything, Toyotaro’s story’s would be more closer to what Toriyama envisioned since Toriyama is actually helping and approving Toyotaro’s ideas and storylines
Also really helped that they ultimately decided to only be able to go back once in the manga before returning to finish the fight, as opposed to going back twice and actually mucking up some of the pacing because of it in the anime.
@@motherplayer Fr, they go back too many times in anime to the point that I started skipping those episodes when I rewatch and go straight to the last time they go to Future after they had to retreat the first time
I was so upset at Resurrection F's ending. Vegeta should've been the one who kills Freeza, after everything Freeza did to the Saiyan race. I rage quitted after the scene that Whis stopped time.
You didn't really touch on how Goku has no character arc. He used to defeat bad guys, now he just wants to fight for fun, no matter how many millions die. The beginning of super was cool, but it fell apart so quick. I thought maybe Goku would become the villain and it would be something new, but no.
Don't forget Freezer is not a martial artist he doesn't know anything about martial arts training. He doesn't know how to sense ki. So how would he know he's strong enough? Also let's not forget DBS stills directly from fan fiction while be worse.
DBS ALWAYS felt like fanfic made anime to me. It wasn't a surprise to me when I learned a fanfic author helped in a lot of ways to make DBS, Toyataro. He did DBAF, which was kinda bad and also felt fanfic.
This shares a lot of my feelings about Super as a series. I was iffy on the series when I saw the change in art style and how they slimmed everyone down. But I was the same, I kept watching hoping the next episode would be the episode that really got my to love this series like the previous ones. It was the Future Trunk ark that made me realize that Super just isn't for me. I love F. Trunks, he's my favorite character in the series. And I was excited to see him again though I did think it was a bit odd and somewhat of a nostalgia grab but I pushed on. I didn't initially like Goku Black but after awhile I could see the possible potential in his character. But just the whole way the arc played out disappointed me in a way I didn't think Dragon Ball could. The Zeno Button and Merged Zamasu becoming the universe...that's where I quit Super and just couldn't even be bothered to pay attention to the rest of the series. I only watched the Universal Tournament arc because my brother said the fights were better than the previous arcs. I like UI but that wasn't enough to fix what was broken for me. My ramblings aside, Super just feels like the team just went online, found a bunch of old fanfics from 2000s. Literally "let me copy your homework but I'll change it so it looks different". Fanfics aren't bad but Super just feels like a bunch of stolen ideas poorly written with inconsistent animation. It feels no proper thought was put into the story. It feels the characters weren't really considered. It felt like they were just throwing shit at a wall and hoping something would stick. But even if something did stick, they'd shrug and rinse and repeat. They nearly destroyed Goku's character. Vegeta gets shafted and everyone else is more of an afterthought than the main cast. I admit, as a kid I didn't appreciate GT, but after watching Super, I went back to see if my opinion from child me still held up. Honestly for GT's flaws, my only real issue with it are some of the "filler" episodes but overall its a well done serious. I feel like the only real positive to Super's existence is that it made me find an appreciation for GT. GT gave me a sense of satisfaction that Super can only dream of reaching. People can like Super, but I'd just like people to acknowledge that the creators didn't do it the justice it deserves.
I wish the writers would watch this. This is the most accurate retelling of super. I love dragonball super but it’s more missed opportunity than anything.
We need another arc like the Moro Saga. I personally would like to see a fallen god of destruction arc. Sort of like an old rival of Beerus who lost out on the god of destruction position when Beerus was chosen coming back for revenge. It could be Vegeta centric arc since he's also training to use Hakaishin energy.
Agreed. As much as I hate dbs, it was one of the arcs to acc have me interested and can acc say that it is decent. They need to make sure that shit is not stupid at the end
Naaah we really don't need more fanfiction arcs. If the manga keeps on going the way it is, im fully expecting Goku to be a reborn super special god and Vegeta to be his eternal rival also reborn. And Vegeta unlocking the sharingan and Goku befriending Oozaru that is inside him.
@@Snusmumrikean I know you're being sarcastic. Thing is Goku can't befriend the Oozaru inside him since he is the Oozaru. Also what kind of arc would you suggest then?
@@AB-xm1ou Don't listen to him, he doesn't have any ideas. Like most haters he only knows how to say something sucks without adding anything constructive. At this point everything is going to seem like fanfiction because Dragon Ball from its beginning to the Buu Saga has been the status quo for decades, every possible idea you could come up with has already been done by somebody. A fallen God of Destruction (preferably from one of the destroyed universes who survived) at least makes sense because with the tiers of power the main cast is at now, who else could reasonably be a threat to them without asspull power-ups? Matter of fact, that's what Moro should have been. Merus should've been the fallen angel, and the two should have been working together covertly unbeknownst to the gods. Needless to say they dropped the ball with that one.
@@James85tu Also never felt a connection to blue on a side note, like there's no wow factor, just a palette swap they threw in too early, no custom B2 or B3, just "evolved", "Kiao-ken, and then "Ultra Instinct" (Albino) Love or hate GT, nothing compares to 4
The one thing that I hated the most was the Power Level BS. Yes it’s been BS and a joke even during DBZ, but at least it felt like it meant something for real. Unlike in Super where it seems like everyone is a “God Level” out of nowhere now. This is why it’s always dangerous to introduce very powerful things in any story because then u have to find something else that could be as threatening or more powerful and when u made something that supposedly is that most powerful then u just screwed yourself.
That's always been the case though. From Frieza being the most powerful in the universe to getting killed in seconds by Trunks and surpassed easily by androids. But the problem is the term "God" is being overused by the fans. Goku and Vegeta aren't Gods just cause of God ki nor are the ones they are fighting. The true "God level" ones to me are the Angels.
@@dominiquerobinson8888 Agree, they are not gods, and Sayajin God is more like base form using God KI instead of regular same with blue SSJ with God KI. Difference for me
Super also just has really bad pacing. It spends no time on building up the threat of character unlike how Z did for Cell and Buu. We never actually see Zamasu act out his grand plan, we just start at what seemed like the end of the arc. Trying to stop the Zero mortals plan, should have been the arc. And of course it was obvious they had the Hope sword attack planned, but they never gave it build up. It just happened. Same with Super Saiyan "Ikari" (sounds like a fan-fiction name), that he just has. And the arc they dragged the hell out of was the TOP, that was so ungodly boring when we knew that the only characters that mattered were U6 and Jiren. In Z, we would have seen the actual process of how he got there through the events of the arc. In Z, nope. He just has it. Same with Kale and Caulifla, we never got to see them actually develop into Super Saiyans, they just do it. By magic Caulifla has SSJ2. Super just rushes everything because they want to race the plot just to get to the new forms they throw out. There is also no actual story or character arcs, or development in Super. Nothing really new. No new motivations or character choices. All Super cares about is just busted power-ups and God Ki sucks. It broke the scaling and is just too inconsistent and useless. I don't like it.
You nailed and explained emotions i didnt know how to explain 😂 literally put all my feelings towards this show into a video. Especially the fact that there were so many great concepts that were not or were executed horrendously
Honestly I feel super Saiyan god should of been the form that Goku and Vegeta had as the ssj for super, and the sayians of universe 7 could of had the blue hair form and later Goku get ultra instinct in tournament of power. And that would of been the next thing he is trying to unlock, and Vegeta can try get ultra ego cause honestly that form dope looking.
The only character that feels like a genuinely well written character was Zamasu, and he felt as powerful as he should be, sure, the ending of the future Trunks saga was not the best, but Zamasu was the best villain, and most well written character in all of DBS.
Great video GT actually tried to make a great quality sequel to Z and succeeded outside of few downfalls Super just ruins DB for me, couldn't even finish the series, so disappointed only Super thing I like was the Broly movie, and that's only because it was more like DBZ, go figure the best parts of DBS was the few times it was close to DBZ.
@@devilshooter126m8 Because a worse sequel came out + rose tinted glasses. GT is aggressively mediocre and is a massive step down from it’s predecessors
Super Dragon Ball Heroes just with double the episode time and slowed down pace. But I like its fun and cool moments. The overall product (not counting the movies) is a 5.5/10 for me. I think there were some good concepts like Super Saiyan Blue, but the execution was poor. A fun and casual continuation of the original manga.
@@SaiyanScholar for me, my favorite character was goku black…then the end of the saga happened. My favorite forms were god and sign…then immediately get replaced. My favorite fight was gonna be Jiren…is what I would say if I actually liked him
funny enough, Heroes is much better than Super in terms of concepts and execution. Even the fights look more impressive. When we add the Heroes Manga into the equation, Super is getting stomped like a bug.
Super is a Parody. It's no coincidence that seemingly everything has been lifted from actual Parodies like Dragon Ball AF which Toyotaro only happened to write. Toyotaro which does most, if not all of Super writing and drawing; allegedly Toriyama writes outlines but the man is old and doesn't care anymore, the outlines might as well be "big bad strong, Goku gets stronger" and Toyotaro does the rest. Either that of Toriyama steals from Parodies himself. I liked parts of Super but waiting 6 months for something that wasn't a Z movie hurt. 26/131 episodes were movie retellings. Talk about a "slow start" eh GT fans? Why wouldn't Ginyu steal Gohan's body once he saw Super Saiyan? The Zamasu arc could have been resolved in two words: Time Rings. Remove the Time Rings and the events either wouldn't happen or at the very least time treachery has the hakai'd Black paradox not exist and makes immortal Zamasu not immortal since Black enlisted him and he never wanted to act on it. No Zeno stupidity, this was a battle they kept failing on repeat. Hell how the Gas arc kept all over the place felt like a parody ignoring established rules about UI seemed like a shitty fanfiction you'll find on forums. Hell the end was a toddler tier ending worse than Zamasu: The big bad is too tough to defeat so Freeza kills him! Super Hero only redeeming factor was the Piccolo love, and the Gammas were cool too. Hated how the Super Broly film ruined Broly and Bardock. Now that I completely shat over Super I'll stop. Didn't plan on it.
I'm rewatching super rn. And now the biggest gripe I've noticed is how wacked out power scaling is. To the point where alot of the dialog is characters being surprised by characters. Because the only way to emphasize power dynamics is to have a 3rd party character comment on how surprised or disappointed he is of said character in the fight
Thank you for this video. Real fans know all the weaknesses and it's good for us to talk about this. We've been fans for nearly 25+ years haven't we all? I wonder if they respect the fans the ones that follow the journey. Why build characters up to break them down randomly without any reason
My only thing is that 18 certainly wouldn't have been the same level as 17 because of free time alone to train. Freiza got a dumb boost from minimal training (dumb i know) so why not someone whose floor was higher than Freizas original ceiling? 17 was off screen for 12 years in-show so who knows. But the writers should have SHOWN us that he trained at the least
if 17 trained on the level needed to reach ssj blue he would've destroyed earth or at least become noticed by the gang, not nobody even knowing where he is.
You compare how Dragon Ball and Naruto are being treated to how Bleach is being treated (with this legit God tier adaptation, 3 episodes in and the adaptation is flawless and the visuals of the show are perfect). Because yeah, DBS and Boruto struggle a lot in the writing department as is but even from a technical standpoint, the anime are really visually lacking apart from a few key scenes, you really feel that the budget they were given was tight. There isn't much to salvage honestly, it's just ...... disappointing (even as someone who never latched onto Naruto that much and always felt it was the weakest of the Big 3, I still feel insulted by Boruto lmao)
Boruto is better in every way than Super because: - there is actual tension - interesting characters - not every character gets ruined - has consequenses - has actual violence and good fights - has at least 1 good arc. Super doesn't even have a single decent or mediocre arc.
@@JamezP that happens in every arc of Super. Goku and Vegeta still take turns and have to relearn to work together. At the end they have to use a plot device to solve the issue. Also both underestimate their opponents and Goku keeps getting caught off guard. Meanwhile Boruto now respects his dad and has an excuse to act bratty considering he is a child. Goku acting like a psychopath and not knowing basic shit after all the experiences and making amateur mistakes in battle isn't.
I'm a "new gen fan" i was born before the battle of gods movie came out and i start watching dragon ball a year or so before the super anime released, i watched the classic, z and gt, and i was pissed when i saw the new dragon ball super anime, my favorite back then was Z but now it's gt because it's the most nostalgic to me and i feel like it ended the series perfectly
Ironic, how Dragon Ball Z did away with power levels to show how meaningless and unreliable they were. Now in DBS, fights are won by who can scream louder or shoot a bigger blast.
Art only excels in a free society. Once the artist sells out the art ceases to be unique. Capitalism has nothing to do with. In communism, art is controlled by the state in most cases. Capitalism lets art get made, then the public chooses to support it or not. Blame the artist that sells out not an economic system.
Free market would mean the most freedom to make whatever art you want. Capitalism gives incentive to buy art then bastardize it like Disney with Star Wars. In a government controlled economy the art would be more restrictive and you wouldn’t be free to criticize the gov in your art
I always had problem with lack of damage/blood on the characters. After all, they are mortals that wield powers of a god. Wouldnt be a good idea to make them bleed to show that they are still flesh and bones??? Lack of blood on the gods of destruction or angels would suffice however as they were naturally godly. Born as gods. Honestly the whole "god ki" is what made whole series go upside down. Even GT with its ludicrous plot power ups, felt more natural without this god ki nonsense. All in all, db super is just junkfood for eyes. Edible, but thats about it.
7:50 I think that actually works. "Ultimate" Gohan is the result of _two_ hidden potential unlocks, first by Guru as a kid and then as a teen by the Elder Kai. So... he should _always_ be at the equivalent of his own God form. That makes it make the most sense. Elder Kai's potential unlock doesn't make a lot of sense unless he let Gohan tap into a new power. His limits were already removed a decade prior on Namek. What else could explain the odd Ultimate form other than it being God Form but without needing to activate God Form? It fits the source, the explanation, the weird effects like "no need for Super Saiyan" which is akin to God reverting their physical form to their base but red, and of course it places the Ultimate Form into a logical progressions of forms. Ultimate is just unlocking your God Form power without going into god form. Getting back to his old power level and then exceptionally beyond should be extremely simple for him, because he's not using traditional forms anymore.
I just finished up watching this video. I pretty much think you’re spot on. I really liked the movies. I think they did a huge disservice to vegeta (in a sense), gohan, goten, trunks, piccolo, tien and krillin. Almost forgot buu. Also future trunks The random rage boost made no sense I did like the future trunks arc the best overall But it was a poor man’s cell saga (everything with cell in it, androids, cell games etc) I wish they would’ve never adapted the first two movies. They missed a huge arc possibility with the universe 6 saiyans/tournament. After the tournament the universe 7 saiyans could’ve gone to universe 6. Actually had training sessions like in Dragonball, or any major arc in z. Could’ve built up relationships between the saiyans race(s) Actually got where the universe 6 saiyans trained to get super saiyan etc. have had goku and vegeta train with hit. So the power creep wasn’t as unexplained. During this time have the humans train together and say learn fusion. Imagine a tien and krillin fusion. Give them some sort of tri bean distructo disk attack. Or the multiple body technique coupled with 100x solar flare. Bring back 16 (he was my favorite) Honestly overall I prefer gt over the super anime Was it prefect no Was it more true to the original source and its audience yes Thank you for the solid video
DBS has terrible story and terrible art and animation, I could barely watch through it. DBGT >>>> DBS lol. They really do need to retcon the whole thing as some made up nonsense that Goku dreamed about after fighting Buu in DBZ. Just leave it at that and let it be dead.
@@SalimShahdiOff It's not that good, but honestly at least it did a better job at getting the personalities of the characters correct. Even when they were going for the old db group of 2-3 boy, girl, older, team/friends sort of thing, Goku took situations seriously. GT at least had the benefit of having been made not long after Z ended, since most people would have had a good idea on how to actually portray the characters.
Dragon Ball Super is just a fever dream, it never happened, you guys, it wasnt real! As far as I'm concerned, DBS is in the same category as seasons 7&8. They're so bad we shouldn't even acknowledge them.
I enjoyed it. To suggest that DBGT is superior to DB Super is just sour grapes. Yes, some of the characters sucked, power scaling is ridiculous, SSJ is suddenly so easy to achieve. But, whatever. I still look forward to the return of Super
Watch Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, you'll get all package in one. Story? Check Character development? Check Emotional attachment? Check Unforgettable moment? Check Intense moments? Check Blood? Check! Like heck Jojo got a lot of bloodbath Fights that have actual strategy? Check No power creep? Check You got it all. I've watched DBS, and what a huge disappointment. But when i discovered Jojo's bizarre adventure, it was a life changing moment and goddamn its like i just watched a freaking movie!
Dude. Super. Man. Na. They tripping. They be doing stuff just to do stuff. Pointless transformations. Goku Black was dope. But he lost his black Air Force Energy once he fused with the green guys. Then he became a nut job. And that bald head red and white pickle lookin dude was strong just because. No reason. I forgot his name. He was red and black with bulgy eyes. And the Body of Tien. And hit. Boy. Was he a waste. He could have been good. Man. Super sucks
Didn’t even bother to watch super. The moment I heard krillin and Roshi were belng used for the tournament of power, I knew it had completely lost the plot. Toriyama left us a hot pile of 💩
When Super Dragon Ball Heroes has better storytelling, characterization and fights, you know your show is bad. Speaking of Heroes, they introduced Super Saiyan 4 avatars giving us the first official child Super Saiyan 4 and the first female Super Saiyan 4.
If SSG had given Goku access to magic and such, making it so that instead of straight power being what wins the fight it’s how he uses his new magic in addition to his fighting experience and techniques; I think it would have been better. It also would have justified the thinner body because the emphasis is on magic and using the body as a conduit for said magic instead of brute force. And let vegeta get it onscreen, maybe by being around goku while he’s practicing and then training together in base, and he ascends when thinking about his family. Or something. I’m not a writer, but I would watch a storyline that follows this.
The biggest disappointment for me is when I hear tournament in dragon ball I think of a 1v1 tournament not a damn royal rumble with a million stupid characters I don’t care about yes that includes the saiyans from the other universe. Biggest fumble in dragon ball history and it made me wanting to go back to when I thought GT was as bad as it can get
This is hilarious to me, because I remember predicting this to a colleague who would update me sometimes when it started. I live DB/DBZ. I told him I'd have no part of anything to do with it. When I was growing up these stories and journey's of a hero pretty much ended at the Cell Games. There in lies so much knowledge, wisdom, philosophy, and PAIN. It's over though. Buu Saga's alright but Cinderella's fairy godmother conjured that up out of no where so it only kind of counts. Ultra instinct as a concept is A1, and falls in line with maximizing the original super saiyan form. Which technically, if applied to a base form capable of multiple high energy level stressing transformations, should be able to conserve energy and deliver a robustly divine efficiently energetically enhancing blow lol anyways welcome one and all! I've been waiting for you! Glad to see you've come around to your senses lol hope strategists
He's not wrong, even if the Dragon Ball franchise doesn't have the best plots, the writing and potential they wasted is astounding. The power system, martial techniques, and abilities, along with the character background and in-depth they used to focus on back in the original Dragon Ball has disappeared. Wonder if the writers really intended for super to turn out like this....
Tbh, the only character that made sense for me, was 17. At least in the ToP, he was clearly outclassed by the main characters, but his infinite energy and abilitys were used very well imo. And considering a lot of time passed since the Cell Arc, it was plossible he's gotten stronger. But overall the "train for 1-3 days, and get on Goku and Vegeta level" was soo overused. Sure maybe frieza made sense the first time, but once master Roshi was holding on better than Krillin, I was just beating my head against the wall. How can Gohan make a bigger leap, just training a fiev days, than when he spent 10 months on the hyperbolic time chamber, where the gravity is 10 times stronger, and the was there only to train. Just dumb. My head cannon is that after the buu arc, Goku also reached his full potential, with the normal hair, like gohan, and then he met Uub, and that way DB makes the most sense, and Uub being able to stay in there with ultimate Goku has him so impressed, he decides to train him. The end.
love your videos man I enjoy your takes and there aren't that many people who just flat out say what they believe. Most people just put a bunch of sugar coating on it to make other people feel better
Yeah, I watched Super during it's first run and people were hyped when Vegito came back, when Goku blasted Kefla out of the ring, when Goku Black turned Rose, UI Goku as whole, people were hyped for numerous moments in Super. I don't get the hate people seem to suddenly have about Super. The Attitude Era is brought here as a comparison of modern WWE to that era, but like Super compared to DBZ there have been tons of iconic moments and matches that are just as good as anything from the attitude Era I don't get it, are these bitter DBZ super fans who want to act like Super never had any hype moments because it was not DBZ 2.0? Because outside of a few people, once we got to Future Trunks Saga, most people I saw online loved Super and it crashed Crunchyroll's servers as we got to the end of the ToP. Fans in some countries in South America watched the final fight between Goku and Jiren and we're cheering. The hype was there. Why this sudden rewrite that Super was a failed show that nobody cared about? Super is not perfect and I still prefer OG Dragon Ball and DBZ to it, but it's still a damn good show that I enjoy revisiting.
Very good video, the truth is that yes, I think it goes for the point you mentioned that the new characters (and even the existing ones) have a very bad development, they are totally flat, but I also think it goes hand in hand with the idea that they have very little time to develop, because, they were created with a very specific purpose (a bad one in my opinion) which is to be a stepping stone for the main characters, becoming totally disposable. As I mentioned great video, you got it right. I think the worst part of it all is that they are very good concepts, but poorly executed, I think just the fact that they are good concepts having potential keeps me still waiting for more from the franchise. I leave my like.
Man... if Master Roshi wouldve died in the tournament of power, that wouldve been such a good, emotional episode... but they couldnt do that right either lol. There were so many points in the series that they couldve really done something good with and they just totally dropped the ball.
Whis can bring people to life. There are literally no stakes. Seriously what was so emotional in the Roshi episode??? I keep seeing people praising it but it was completely hollow and meaningless
I gotta admit...there were times I was hopeful... I remember saying to myself at key moments - like when Goku stacked Kaioken ontop of Blue, and then Ultra Instinct Omen - "Super is now as good as Z." But it never stayed there. And after a while, it just started to annoy me.
7:40 Gohan trains through the entirety of Dragon Ball Super, after Freeza teaches him the same lesson for a second time so no, it wasn't 1 *Day* it was more like 1 *Year* .
@@zacarnold2970 I mean in his defense its years after buu and everything has been chill so makes sense for him to not really train. But super is just months after the buu arc
@@cooper2211 bro Gohan trained during the timeskip to gt and end of z it literally states he *never* stopped training, which explains how he's so strong
My first contact with the DB series was with Super, when he debuted on Cartoon Network here in Brazil, and I have a great affection for the series for introducing me to this incredible universe... but I can't deny that it sucks. After watching DB Classic, Z and GT I noticed how bad this anime was compared to what came years ago. It's sad to see that what made me a huge fan of the series was the worst thing since DB Evolution. But that sadness passed when I first read Future Trunks Saga in the manga, it brought me this good feeling, as if I was watching DB Classic and Z again. Since then I stopped watching the anime and I've been following the manga, and even though it's not as good as Z was, it still makes me happy to know that there's the minimum of love and care put into those pages by Toyotaro. But as I now know that the anime will follow the manga's story, I'm looking forward to watching the Moro and Granolah Saga being animated, and hoping that the next saga will be good too. (My english sucks, I know :P)
Ngl I've started appreciating super a lot more after superhero dropped, people hated that movie but I absolutely adored it, it really resparked my passion for this franchise and when I watched it as a whole, I noticed that it suffered from the same problems as GT (sorry scholar) that being cool ideas, poor execution, I mean universal tournament? EVIL GOKU???, Cool as fuck bro, unfortunately GT is kinda the same although at least that wasn't as safe and happy as super
I agree with you while is was watching Super I always thought they are bringing out half of the potential that it could have had I hope once the new anime drops it will be a banger
Super has no good ideas. It has the flaws of all Dragon Ball series but non of its strength: - lack of good story, adventure and organic storytelling like DBZ - lack of useful characters like DBGT - lack of substance, overuse of fan service, repetitive fights and tension... like in Super Dragon Ball Heroes Not to mention, it has all the flaws from every fanfiction I have read. Freaking Dragon Ball Multiverse is better than Super and that is a repetitive Tournament comic that just won't end.
@@thewitness257 after not even exploring a single of these universes, how are you even interested in a tournament full of nobodies? There is not a single justification why any of these characters are as strong as they are. That wasn't even a tournament. That was a battle royal and 1 fight. A tournament has peliminaries and several rounds. Even if we ignore these issues, how is a tournament at this point of the story going to be interesting?
I felt the exact same way during the time Super was airing. Every week waiting for the big turn-around moment that never came. The only episode that got me legit hyped and also delivered on it was the double episode of Goku unlocking Ultra Instinct for the first time. It's just too bad we've all seen how UI gets treated like trash and loses everything that made it special the first time later on in the manga.
Dragon ball needs to Bring back the old artstyle like DBZ and GT Not this clear animation that's literally what made DBZ and GT Good and famous in the first place is it's artstyle and story writing.
Another thing about DBS you left out that grinds my gears is the extreme lack of detail. Good example: characters like Bulma and Gohan had the most appearance changes in Z. Their appearance changed every single arc, sometimes even multiple times an arc. Everything from their clothing to their hairstyle, It made it feel authentic like you can actually feel things changing and time progressing. Yet In DBS, everyone is stuck with the same design the whole series with no change especially Bulma. She has now had the same uniform look and hairstyle for what has been years now. Things like this are the main reason a lot of viewers aren't aware of any time progression in the show. Same with Gohan, The only time his appearance would change would be the very few times Toriyama would get involved and design him, which were for the resurrection F movie and superhero movie.... So really only movie wise lol. That's bad, It truly showcases the lack of soul and passion in DBS
The cereal box description describes super nicely. When we are left with more questions than answers then it just feels like they are just thinking of the next transformation to make money. The next fan service thing. Vegito Blue only appearing in one episode, just like Heroes does, to sell products. If the stories of things like Super Saiyan Rage or Universe 6 Saiyans was more fleshed out, it would feel less cash grabby. Yet they couldn’t deliver on that. And when they do deliver on things it is sorta hollow. Things like the Potara fusion having a time limit or even Gohan not being able to see without his glasses when not in Super Saiyan form are just poor reasons, though Gohan not having his glasses is actually the better of the two. I do like Super, I just wish it was more fulfilling. Dragon Ball fans like definitive answers. No questioning is this character stronger than this one. Super just wants to lead us on to keep us coming back which isn’t the best way to do it. The Black arc was the best arc. It was nice and gritty. It had emotions and feelings, but it had the stupidest ending ever. That is what annoys me the most. Why even have Zamasu come back at all. They did it just so the stupid Zeno button could be used. Which it didn’t need to be used. We lost a whole timeline, because of it. Everything Trunks had fought for was gone. And his story cheapened because the gods were always there to fix things. It would of been nice if they just left it there with Trunks beating Zamasu and the Earth continuing from there. And yes Trunks had an ass pull power up, but he seemingly deserved it after all the shit he went through. Super is good, even great, but it is far from flawless. If they only had the fans in mind and not the money it would of been the best series to have come out.
It didn't always had high stakes but it did become worst. For example...Cell destroying earth would basically f*ck the earth for at least when namek disocvered if they discovered(what was not the case in the trunks timeline) or when Majin Boo was destroying all the universe...like even if dragon balls,if he was not stopped...he would still destroy the universe. Dragon ball always did had lower stakes,but not in the level of non stakes that super has.[
@@DynastyZwarrior90 Exactly, King Piccolo killed Shen Long and we had no idea Kami even existed or something could be done about it, there were the highest stakes in the series imo (that most people watched the arc after knowing what happened next it's a different story). In the Saiyan saga it was softer because we had hints Namek existed and had their Dragonballs, but they were just hints and space travel was a foreign concept to the protagonists at the time, so those deaths also felt much more serious than later anyway.
I am 37 years old. First watched DBZ in 2000, when I was 13. Immediately fell in love. Over the coming years, I became a Dragonball encyclopedia, watching and reading everything regarding it. The sheer gravitas of that early writing gives me goosebumps today.
One of my coworkers is 21. He asked me if I've played the new Dragonball game.
"Oh, so you like Dragonball?" I asked.
He nodded. "Yeah, like. I'm a big fan."
"I will never forget," I said, probably glowing, "watching them struggle, so scared, against Freiza, and then Goku going Super Saiyan, so epic. Or Gohan going SS2 that first time, just electric."
"Oh, I've never seen that," he said. He went on to explain that he had never seen Dragonball or Dragonball Z (or GT, for that matter). The only media he's consumed of Dragonball was just Super. As you can imagine, I practically melted. So I hooked him up with the series and advised he start at the beginning and just take his time.
Later I saw him. "Hey, gotten a chance to watch any of it?"
He said, "Yeah, I've watched a lot of the start, when Goku is a little kid." He noted my happy expression and added, "But it really sucks so far, it is so boring."
"BORING??!" I said, jokingly pissed. "You think this stuff is boring but you watch Dragonball Super??" In my head I was comparing the 21st Tenkaichi Budōkai arc to the Goku Black arc and not at all sympathizing with his opinion.
"I just like the transformations, they're cool," he said.
And that's where I think we are with Dragonball these days; that's 100% what the story is now. No regard for story, no regard for character, no regard for gravitas. It's all colors and lights.
... back when I saw a kid, we had colors and lights, but we also had story, character, and gravitas.
I feel like they should have stopped with goku reaching ssj for the first time and being strongest in the universe.
Some people really do have terrible opinions... D:
When gohan turned super saiyan 2, it felt monumental and well deserved. All the training and hidden potential had finally peaked. Now these characters just get ss2 for nothing!
None of the sayians in the tournament besides cabba should’ve gotten it
@This Is Tohma damn
@This Is Tohma as bad as it is, at least he didn't use the damn tingly back and was the fusion of two saiyans with the biggest potential. It isn't good writing, but supers writing isn't any better
@This Is Tohma gotenks is a fusion. Caulifia is a single fighter. Goten and trunks are the hybrid saiyan offsprings of two of the most powerful fighters in the universe. Caulifia is a nobody who is stated to be a prodigy to protect the bad writing and justify her devaluing the transformations we grew up admiring
Bro deleted his replies knowing he lost the argument XD
Watching other TH-camrs gaslight themselves and shill for the show - not sure if it's because they are acting like abused girlfriends of Toei or because their income requires Super's success - but it's the saddest crap. They legitimately try to power scale this crap. Like what? Bro Roshi fought Jiren. Stop even trying, they killed it. It's dead. Let it be dead.
God Ki is just a normal Ki with an extra shiny painting if it can be beaten by a Normal Ki, plus if you're SSB shouldn't it be able to use the regeneration ability that SSG had? What even God Ki at this point.
Exactly When Goku acquired god form I expected that to be a new tier in power which sparked the beginning of a new journey into a whole new world of power for Goku and soon to follow after, obviously Vegeta and at least the rest of the Saiyans, that set them in a league seperate from and untouchable by mortals without God Ki. Thus the new adventures and challenges of Super revolving around that and showing us a new side of the dragonball universe. (Zamasu at least fits into this. I haven’t straight up read the nee manga but from my understanding Morro fits into this) Only for them to be portrayed getting smacked around by super saiyan “prodigies”
Honestly... vegito defusing due to his power being too strong doesn't make sense😂😂
But that was indeed the plot, it's "OH SHIT HE'S TOO STRONG PEOPLE LIKE HIM TIME TO END HIM"
The earrings had a time limit like in the bus saga. The earrings were barely enough to keep the fusion stable since fusion wasn't technically supposed to happen with them, they weren't made for it. So the increase in power decreasing the time makes sense, since they weren't designed for neither fusion nor the godly power of SSJ Blue. Feel free to correct me on this
@@SonicKirbo but by that logic kelfa should've defused as soon as she went lssj 😂
Completely defeats the purpose of the potara fusion compared to the dance
@@Vidvidambusgame Wrong. Originally, the Potara were supposed to keep Goku and Vegeta fused forever. Them unfusing inside of buu was for plot convience. Then super came along and retconned everything.
Just the fact that Goku would EVER let a bunch of universes be in danger of eraser including his own is so ridiculous. All his friends should literally hate him after that 👀 and people say him throwing cell a senzu bean was bad...
But don't you get it? They were gonna erase it all anyway so this was a good thing for everyone to get a fighting chance. Who cares if Goku didn't actually know that would be the case until later, he can't be held accountable! Bleh.
@@motherplayer i know you are being sarcastic but God I despise that line of reasoning sooooo fucking much whenever people try to legitimately use that as a valid excuse 😑😑😑
@@sammydray5919 That's literally the story line though. Either way he never asked for those potential consequences. He just wanted to participate in a tournament and that was dropped on him at which point he couldn't back out. So what exactly is your complaint?
Goku gave them a chance at redemption. Also they weren't going to be destroyed forever. The only universe with a chance of destruction was the winning one that didn't wish for the other universes to re exist. Since they wished for the restoration, nobody perishes. Grand priest said so.
@@beantea5592 Lol even though he didn't knew that the universe who lose will be erased, he still didn't realized the real situation he was in and acted like it was another Sunday
A large part of the problem with Super is that everyone needs to be on par with Blue but how's everyone supposed to compete against characters with a lot of power & experience like Goku & Vegeta. Kale & Caulifla went from not knowing about Super Saiyan to being able to beat Blue within a few episodes. The same can be said of characters like: 17, Frieza, Broly, & even Toppo too
imo I would exclude frieza as he is a prodigy since the start
toppo and broly is questionable but toppo is a training god of destruction and for broly idk
android 17 shouldn’t be able to match blue regardless of his infinite energy or the amount of training
@@Mastasrasmas tbf the android went from average human level to match actual super saiyans
You can exclude Toppo, he was training with Belmond for who knows how long
Frieza having that rate of growth makes sense because being a prodigy who never trained is in line with his character, which is that royalty shouldn't have to train, hard work is for peasants, etc. As for Android 17, as stated above he went from being a regular human who probably never did any martial arts to being above Super Saiyan level just with Earth technology. It stands to reason that his rate of growth from training would be similar to Frieza's, and with infinite ki he can do it all day.
I equate it to Kale, Caulifla, and Cabba having a similar amount of knowledge of how to manipulate their ki like Goku and Vegeta do, and all they really needed was someone to do it in front of them so that they can execute it the same way. Kinda like getting the basics of something down but seeing something advanced would urge you to attempt to do it too.
They should end Super with Goku waking up from a fever dream when he was sick just before the androids! LOL
YES! that's it! My new head canon.
This sums up a lot of my feelings on Super. I remember watching Battle of Gods and actually being interested in what this new era of DB would bring, Goku screaming "I will not let you destroy my world" was the closest anything after GT had come to making me feel something. I knew something was wrong when F came out and there was already a new form, then Whis completely undermining the stakes of the world getting destroyed and things only became worse from there. I laughed when they re-did Vegeta's final explosion in the ToP but he just survives because he's stronger now or whatever.
Surface level nostalgia, zero stakes, going through the motions. No thought or care as to what the moment should mean for the character.
I still blame the over use of the Dragonballs they're suffering from it,altering the story and timelines.
@@austin31697 someone should have destroyed all of the "wish orbs" forever
@@michaelperrigo facts only thing they did was insult your intelligence and made fighters gaining new forms extremely pointless if they were just going to wish everything back
@@michaelperrigo you even have the higher beings in the universe GIVING fighters (Gohan) power w/o training the same person who gave Gohan power also gives his life up for Goku 😂
Exactly, the only glimpse of nostalgia was kaioken
Bro are you watching me?? How are you uploading these bangers as soon as I get off work and sit down with a plate of food?? God bless man, absolute veteran behavior as usual Scholar.
This sounds so relatable.
@@RobinTheMetaGod I don’t value your opinions
@@shashankm9449 no
@@shashankm9449 chainsaw man would lose to Yamcha, so weak.
Dragon ball super had so much potential. It's a shame they didn't take advantage of it
"The last 5 remaining French fries" bro hilarious 😂🤣
Lmao. Cabba should have had a Spartacus looking physique with that outfit 😂
Goku in DBS - "I never cared about saving innocent people, I only care about fighting strong opponents"
F*ck dragonball super with a passion
Facts my guy in z yeah he loved to fight but he did cared by people hr even moved the fight away from civilians
Swear they forgot about the entire namek speech he gave
@@mcgeeyeeeyeee”I am the fight man”
With a passion !!!!
@@mcgeeyeeeyeee That's because he never gave that speech lmao. That was a dub only thing. Why would the people writing DBS in Japan reference something Goku never said?
Super artwork is disgrace characters look really weird too skinny too small. They don't look like fighters
Cabba, Caulifla and Kale are prime exemple
Broly still has the look, Jiren looks like one too.
Yeah that's about it
They barely even look like DB characters. Super ugly artstyle.
That’s an opinion, not a fact.
@@SamuelRondreigz4720 that’s a fact not an opinion
Who's too skinny or too small? Is all you want for goku to keep getting ridiculously bigger forever?
If only Dragon Ball super had good writing it would’ve been so peak
and not making Goku a brainless joke
It needs more then writing, the arts bad, the animation is bad, the fights are horrible to watch, it’s sounds terrible, the music sucks, it’s just a complete disaster. GT is off the hook super is the worst. Dbz cost 55k per ep, dbs cost 180k per ep nothing can make this better other then erasing it from reality
"He looks like the last 5 remaining french fries you see at the bottom of your McDonald's box" 😂 so true. He's as thin as a stick
Dragon ball super being marketed more for kids than before hurt the series quality imo
Agreed. Super is a giant marketing machine from start to finish.
The Zeno button.. That is the pinnacle of stupidity. Any threat that bestowed, on our heroes, have defaulted on a button.. Zeno will save the day! Tragedy no more!
Honestly, the Zeno button was used one time in Super and it became very clear why you never call Zeno out to handle things.
Because he nuked the timeline that Future Trunks came from and it one of the only times things weren't magically fixed with the Dragon Balls.
Everyone acts like Goku pushed the Zeno Button every arc and don't even bother to look at the context of why it was pushed or the massive fallout that happened.
@@caryslan5890 The writers of Super, underwhelmed the plot and character development. Zeno is the end all spectacle.. It's a step up to the dragon balls, and wishing everyone back to life. Zeno, is the ultimate form.
@@caryslan5890Stop defending garbage writing.
What about the dragon balls?
I remember being really dissapointed by Yamcha not participating in the tournament (for context, I watched the original DB before Z and he's my favorite character) but then I saw what Tien's role was and I realised maybe it was for the better, it's one of those weird cases where literally "nothing" is better than such degrading participation.
At least he survived being in middle of beerus and champs clash, same who could effortlessly destroy universe 6 and 7 with this 💀
@@ohhellwhereami2574 That was a cool moment...that was taken away by that fucking death pose that has been overused to years and just done for meme purposes from people from a country where their comedy is running a joke into the ground.
Yamcha didn't get to be cool again until fucking Moro. From Saiyan Saga to Moro that is 25 years of being the joke of the cast.
@@Violent_Wolfen at least better than being forgotten like raditz
yamchA has literally done nothing since the original dragon ball series what's there to be disappointed about
@@Violent_Wolfen he wasn’t that cool in db tho, he always got beat in the first round of every tournament in a degrading way, he didn’t rlly do much against king piccolo or any of piccolos kids or the red ribbon army. His only good moments were in fortune teller baba and pilaf arcs. But yea they been doing him even worse since then.
Makes me appreciate GT a lot more
Words cannot describe how cathartic this video made me feel. Finally, someone else who gets it. DBS as a whole is TRASH, and you gave 100% valid reasons as to why it's trash. Unfortunately, all of the ignorant DBS fanboys will storm this comment section without even watching the video and start off going: "wElL, aCkShUaLlY DBS iS gOoD cUz (insert invalid reason here)". I've seen it time and time again. These same idiots tell me I'm just nostalgia blind to the old stuff. News flash, I never left. There is no nostalgia. Z is good, because IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD. Same with Ball, I didn't watch it until I was in my 20s, and you know what? It's easily a much better show than Super is. GT too. Sure, GT's execution could use some work, but damn, the amount of love put into that show is painfully obvious. Yet, the Super fanboys only focus on Vegeta's moustache and/or leather pants. Goku being a little kid. And of course, the whole "iT's NoNcAnOn" thing. As if these people understand what continuity is, or even watched the old stuff.
Facts. It’s horrible although my favorite character is still Vegeta till this day idc about any other character to be honest 😅😂
Facts, dbs fans must be kids or dumb retards.
Ultra Instinct and Muten Roshi's big moment in the tournament of power both deserved to be in a better show FR (also the moment where Tenshinhan's finally uses his technuiqe that allows him to summon multiple arms again)
It is non canon but makes Goku young physically
DBS is canon but makes Goku young mentally
I'll take the non canon physically young one anytime since it isn't making Goku dumb af like the canon (anime i must add) did.. like they made his IQ like Luffy's 💀💀💀
@@wesxd5292 we'll toriyama totally said it was canon back in the day..it was officially licensed by toei Funimation Konami bird studios shuesha etc.
It was in all the games and TBH even if there was and is a DBS manga it literally can't be canon because it ret cons it's source material.
GT is in the same canonical timeline.
0:40 The only moment that came close to being peak Dragon Ball for me was Goku and Frieza teaming up against Jiren in Episode 131. Matter of fact that whole episode was perfect, if all of DBS had the same quality put into it we'd have no complaints.
That's the moment I hated the most tbh .. it should've been Vegeta and Goku .. i don't really care that much about Vegeta's character but the author should give the man some respect
@@kumarayush9950 Facts about Vegeta but I was good with this particular choice because Goku and Vegeta already paired up multiple times in the TOP so it wouldn't have had the same weight as seeing Goku and Frieza for the first time. Goku also needed to validate himself for picking Frieza in the first place, he took a lot of heat for that so it had to make a much bigger difference than just taking Fat Buu's spot.
@@kumarayush9950 bro we seen goku and vegeta a million times already if anything it should have been goku and gohan
@@lanigironu9842 would've absolutely loved Goku and Gohan tbh .. but Frieza finish was the worst imo .. if they wanted to give him a moment then they would've made him beat Dyspo
That moment when Goku is in base form but you can see his hair flicker gold as he struggles to go super saiyan, mustering every last ounce of strength in him . . . damn. DBS needed more moments like that.
The attempt to alter Dragon Ball Z history is what really annoys me about Dragon Ball Super. A couple of examples are: they changed the power of the potara earrings from being used forever to just being used for a short period of time. They changed the history about Freiza destroying planet Vegetea because he was afraid of a Sayain rising and defeating him. Beerus gave Frieaza the order to destroy planet Vegeta.
@@head_bussa doesn't he only gave the premisson to do so?
I tried... But after whatever black Goku 's story, I was out. The story is so incredibly bad, and the stakes so ridiculously over the top for no reasons.
GT was
...
Better.
My list of things I HATE about Super.
- Vegeta's redundant banter and same old egocentric and overconfident attitude all that character growth in Z and it hasn't shown.
- Goku being dumber.
- Poor animation quality I wanted the whole series to look as good as Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.
- Giving Krillin the raw end of the deal in the Tournament of Power.
- I hate Zamasu and all his talk about God's and Mortals LIKE WE HAVEN"T ALREADY HEARD THAT NOISE A MILLION TIMES ALREADY!!! (Honestly I think he's worst then Vegeta bout talking about himself).
- Bulma and Chichi being at their worst in this series.
- SUPER SAIYAN GOD NO LONGER LIVING UP TO THE HYPE AND BEING OUTGUNNED BY A STUPID RECOLOR OF A WAY BETTER FORM!!! (although I think it looks better on Vegeta then it does Goku).
- Beerus pulling the same lying crap that Master Roshi did with the unnecessary Monaka in order to inspire Goku.
-The Omni King being introduced and people are ranking now him as the strongest in Dragon Ball History it completely diminishes Goku as the best in all of Dragon Ball.
- Goku being the most selfish he's ever been and it's made me lose respect for him (although they did bring back the whole multiverse in the end).
- The Gods not acting like gods but more like pompous brats.
- THE FACT THAT THEY KEEP SIDELINING THE FAN FAVORITE Z FIGHTERS AGAIN!!!.
Verdict: At the end of the day Super is not the Dragon Ball I was introduced to back when I played Budokai 3 it just doesn't feel like Dragon Ball to me it's an utter redundant mess honestly I think GT is way better it gave us the best ending in the series and it should've stopped there before it got stupid although I do love Battle of Gods and DBS Broly I can do without the rest of Super I'm not giving any praise to this insult to the series although I do like a lot of things that Super did for the series for me the cons out way the pros the OG Dragon Ball Trilogy Dragon Ball, Z, and GT is still the best you wanna know how I can come back to Dragon Ball with open happy arms?.
Fix the mess that Super made.
I agree with you
I hate Super. I get tired of arguing with blind stupid fans that are in denial about how terrible the show is. I hope this show never comes back.
Don't worry, Dragon Ball Super will never come back. There is no salvation for the Dragon Ball franchise.
you people just have to bark over every popular anime
@@Animesaga376 Because it's trash. Super compared to previous Dragon Ball shows; sucks. You can tell they're out of ideas, and it was just a big cash grab. SSJ 1,2,3, God red, God Blue, Ultra Instinct. What next? Purple, green, pink, orange? 🤭😆😂😂😂😂😂 Lame. The story arcs are boring as F***. Mostly tournaments and some lame villains. The last arc was the only good thing about this show.
@@dcb6729 still better than mid punch man and mid Kaisen
@@dcb6729 then get lost you people can just bark nothing else 😂
I don’t think that db super is the worst disaster in anime history. Definitely kentaro miura dying with berserk unfinished is. Togashi having to quit writing and drawing yu yu hakusho because of the demands of the industry and failing health is worse than super. I think what you’re saying about super is right because it makes the rest of the dragon ball franchise look bad. People already don’t take dragon ball seriously enough but the fact that super exists just makes their opinions on dragon ball seem legitimate.
Other anime disasters: Toei animation drawing out the one piece anime, making it unwatchable. Shonen jump cutting tite kubo’s time to finish up the final bleach arc. Kishimoto ruining his entire series by killing off his greatest villain only to replace it with a lame villain, just for a cheap plot twist. Boruto and dragon ball super are both ruining the respective source material of their original series. Plus they are just unwatchable sequels that only take the most corny, cringy, and stereotypical aspects of their original series.
Those are all disasters - but you're comparing the Great Flood to a bunch of storms. They are not alike. DB is the grandaddy of Shonen, to have it corpse dug up and desecrated like this for the viewing pleasure of little kids is just ... it might not be a disaster _to you perosnally_ but it's the overall biggest. Most of those shows you listed are DB's sons
This... made me respect GT, despite it's problems.
I feel like GT suffered mainly from arcs being too short. The entirety of GT had as many episodes as a single Z arc lol, there wasn't enough build up for anything. The concepts were awesome, with the first part being basically a throwback to OG Dragon Ball, the evil dragons meaning there's actually consequences for using the dragon balls, SSJ4 being a form that makes sense because it's what a saiyan should have looked like from the start imo, there was a lot to like there, a lot of creativity went into it. They just rushed it too hard.
No seriously. After I finished super I actually went and rewatched gt. That...that's saf
Gt suffered from Goku being a kid for too long
look guys this power shatters multiverse
>someone get's punched
>nothing happens
>no reaction
>surprise no universe was shattered
Toriyama just hasn't cared for a LONG time and toei has NEVER cared about it, just the cash. With these facts I don't know why it took them 2 decades to make this money grubbing trash. Gts excuse for being bad was toriyama wasn't completely involved. What's the excuse for Super? They actually made something WORSE than gt. Almost feels like they're punishing us for shitting on it all these years.
TOriyama wanted to ended at Z but the other wanted to milk it and have him do it.
Rip goat
@@Snow-el7yp Toriyama wanted to end DB at the end of the very first arc too
Can we talk for a moment about t.o.p rule "no killing".
In dragonball...
In a tournament...
Where universes get erased...
No killing...
DOESN'T MAKE FUCKING SENSE
this can be just to put some order in all the fights, if wasnt like this, jiren could just explode everyone in a sec
The thing that made me love the manga and forgive some of the issues with it in the beginning is that since the anime got ahead of the manga during U6 arc, Toyotaro at least tried to clean up and clear up some of the things that didn’t make sense in anime such as explaining why Vegeta loss so quickly to Hit. He also had the pressure of expectations following up after the anime because for example, Vegito Blue being used was Toei’s idea and wasn’t actually in Toriyama’s outline but because fans were so hyped about Vegito’s return, Toyotaro included him in the manga too but did the correct way of making Vegito dominate Zamasu the whole fight. I give the man credit because not only was he dealing with criticism (some justifiable) he also had to follow fans expectations from the anime while also trying to stay true to Toriyama’s outline while also trying to fix some of the issues and lack of explanations the anime did. Super definitely needs to stick to manga first, then anime especially since Toriyama is actually much more involved in helping Toyotaro than he was with Toei’s staff so if anything, Toyotaro’s story’s would be more closer to what Toriyama envisioned since Toriyama is actually helping and approving Toyotaro’s ideas and storylines
Also really helped that they ultimately decided to only be able to go back once in the manga before returning to finish the fight, as opposed to going back twice and actually mucking up some of the pacing because of it in the anime.
@@motherplayer Fr, they go back too many times in anime to the point that I started skipping those episodes when I rewatch and go straight to the last time they go to Future after they had to retreat the first time
So it's Toei's Animations fault they should of just stick with following the Manga first the Anime had some unexplained screens and pacing is trash
I was so upset at Resurrection F's ending. Vegeta should've been the one who kills Freeza, after everything Freeza did to the Saiyan race. I rage quitted after the scene that Whis stopped time.
You didn't really touch on how Goku has no character arc. He used to defeat bad guys, now he just wants to fight for fun, no matter how many millions die. The beginning of super was cool, but it fell apart so quick. I thought maybe Goku would become the villain and it would be something new, but no.
Don't forget Freezer is not a martial artist he doesn't know anything about martial arts training.
He doesn't know how to sense ki.
So how would he know he's strong enough?
Also let's not forget DBS stills directly from fan fiction while be worse.
DBS ALWAYS felt like fanfic made anime to me. It wasn't a surprise to me when I learned a fanfic author helped in a lot of ways to make DBS, Toyataro. He did DBAF, which was kinda bad and also felt fanfic.
Not even fanfict would be this trash
Fan fictions can be really really good mind you. This is just pure bad work.
Mad respect to you bruh, I hear your pain while you recorded this. I hope it gets better, I truly do.
Z is the best dragon ball series
I don't know why I'm just seeing this now. Yes Super was a pure money pull. Nothing really mattered in the story.
This shares a lot of my feelings about Super as a series. I was iffy on the series when I saw the change in art style and how they slimmed everyone down. But I was the same, I kept watching hoping the next episode would be the episode that really got my to love this series like the previous ones. It was the Future Trunk ark that made me realize that Super just isn't for me. I love F. Trunks, he's my favorite character in the series. And I was excited to see him again though I did think it was a bit odd and somewhat of a nostalgia grab but I pushed on. I didn't initially like Goku Black but after awhile I could see the possible potential in his character. But just the whole way the arc played out disappointed me in a way I didn't think Dragon Ball could. The Zeno Button and Merged Zamasu becoming the universe...that's where I quit Super and just couldn't even be bothered to pay attention to the rest of the series. I only watched the Universal Tournament arc because my brother said the fights were better than the previous arcs. I like UI but that wasn't enough to fix what was broken for me.
My ramblings aside, Super just feels like the team just went online, found a bunch of old fanfics from 2000s. Literally "let me copy your homework but I'll change it so it looks different". Fanfics aren't bad but Super just feels like a bunch of stolen ideas poorly written with inconsistent animation. It feels no proper thought was put into the story. It feels the characters weren't really considered. It felt like they were just throwing shit at a wall and hoping something would stick. But even if something did stick, they'd shrug and rinse and repeat. They nearly destroyed Goku's character. Vegeta gets shafted and everyone else is more of an afterthought than the main cast.
I admit, as a kid I didn't appreciate GT, but after watching Super, I went back to see if my opinion from child me still held up. Honestly for GT's flaws, my only real issue with it are some of the "filler" episodes but overall its a well done serious. I feel like the only real positive to Super's existence is that it made me find an appreciation for GT. GT gave me a sense of satisfaction that Super can only dream of reaching.
People can like Super, but I'd just like people to acknowledge that the creators didn't do it the justice it deserves.
at least most fanfics have consistent writing
I wish the writers would watch this. This is the most accurate retelling of super. I love dragonball super but it’s more missed opportunity than anything.
We need another arc like the Moro Saga.
I personally would like to see a fallen god of destruction arc.
Sort of like an old rival of Beerus who lost out on the god of destruction position when Beerus was chosen coming back for revenge.
It could be Vegeta centric arc since he's also training to use Hakaishin energy.
Agreed. As much as I hate dbs, it was one of the arcs to acc have me interested and can acc say that it is decent.
They need to make sure that shit is not stupid at the end
Naaah we really don't need more fanfiction arcs.
If the manga keeps on going the way it is, im fully expecting Goku to be a reborn super special god and Vegeta to be his eternal rival also reborn.
And Vegeta unlocking the sharingan and Goku befriending Oozaru that is inside him.
@@Snusmumrikean I know you're being sarcastic.
Thing is Goku can't befriend the Oozaru inside him since he is the Oozaru.
Also what kind of arc would you suggest then?
@@AB-xm1ou Don't listen to him, he doesn't have any ideas. Like most haters he only knows how to say something sucks without adding anything constructive. At this point everything is going to seem like fanfiction because Dragon Ball from its beginning to the Buu Saga has been the status quo for decades, every possible idea you could come up with has already been done by somebody. A fallen God of Destruction (preferably from one of the destroyed universes who survived) at least makes sense because with the tiers of power the main cast is at now, who else could reasonably be a threat to them without asspull power-ups? Matter of fact, that's what Moro should have been. Merus should've been the fallen angel, and the two should have been working together covertly unbeknownst to the gods. Needless to say they dropped the ball with that one.
@@loregasmic nah sounds too much like that merno fanfic garbage
Super isnt Canon, especially since Toriyama slaughtered all his character’s and everything
Cant change my mind
Just like borouto
@@James85tu Also never felt a connection to blue on a side note, like there's no wow factor, just a palette swap they threw in too early, no custom B2 or B3, just "evolved", "Kiao-ken, and then "Ultra Instinct" (Albino)
Love or hate GT, nothing compares to 4
Definitely agree, super lacked soul. I wanted to like it but i just can't with the horrible writing and wasted potential.
The one thing that I hated the most was the Power Level BS. Yes it’s been BS and a joke even during DBZ, but at least it felt like it meant something for real. Unlike in Super where it seems like everyone is a “God Level” out of nowhere now. This is why it’s always dangerous to introduce very powerful things in any story because then u have to find something else that could be as threatening or more powerful and when u made something that supposedly is that most powerful then u just screwed yourself.
That's always been the case though. From Frieza being the most powerful in the universe to getting killed in seconds by Trunks and surpassed easily by androids. But the problem is the term "God" is being overused by the fans. Goku and Vegeta aren't Gods just cause of God ki nor are the ones they are fighting. The true "God level" ones to me are the Angels.
@@dominiquerobinson8888 Agree, they are not gods, and Sayajin God is more like base form using God KI instead of regular same with blue SSJ with God KI. Difference for me
Super also just has really bad pacing. It spends no time on building up the threat of character unlike how Z did for Cell and Buu. We never actually see Zamasu act out his grand plan, we just start at what seemed like the end of the arc. Trying to stop the Zero mortals plan, should have been the arc. And of course it was obvious they had the Hope sword attack planned, but they never gave it build up. It just happened. Same with Super Saiyan "Ikari" (sounds like a fan-fiction name), that he just has.
And the arc they dragged the hell out of was the TOP, that was so ungodly boring when we knew that the only characters that mattered were U6 and Jiren.
In Z, we would have seen the actual process of how he got there through the events of the arc. In Z, nope. He just has it. Same with Kale and Caulifla, we never got to see them actually develop into Super Saiyans, they just do it. By magic Caulifla has SSJ2. Super just rushes everything because they want to race the plot just to get to the new forms they throw out. There is also no actual story or character arcs, or development in Super. Nothing really new. No new motivations or character choices. All Super cares about is just busted power-ups and God Ki sucks. It broke the scaling and is just too inconsistent and useless. I don't like it.
You nailed and explained emotions i didnt know how to explain 😂 literally put all my feelings towards this show into a video.
Especially the fact that there were so many great concepts that were not or were executed horrendously
Honestly I feel super Saiyan god should of been the form that Goku and Vegeta had as the ssj for super, and the sayians of universe 7 could of had the blue hair form and later Goku get ultra instinct in tournament of power. And that would of been the next thing he is trying to unlock, and Vegeta can try get ultra ego cause honestly that form dope looking.
The only character that feels like a genuinely well written character was Zamasu, and he felt as powerful as he should be, sure, the ending of the future Trunks saga was not the best, but Zamasu was the best villain, and most well written character in all of DBS.
Super is for casuals and kids
Z and GT are for hard-core, I want blood fan adults
Great video
GT actually tried to make a great quality sequel to Z and succeeded outside of few downfalls
Super just ruins DB for me, couldn't even finish the series, so disappointed
only Super thing I like was the Broly movie, and that's only because it was more like DBZ, go figure the best parts of DBS was the few times it was close to DBZ.
Succeeded?
@@yorknew423 for the time maybe not, but people are waking up that GT wasn't as bad as claimed for years
@@devilshooter126m8 Because a worse sequel came out + rose tinted glasses. GT is aggressively mediocre and is a massive step down from it’s predecessors
@@yorknew423 well, i did say "a few downfalls" I wish GT did a few things better, but i'll take it over Super any day.
@@devilshooter126m8 Fair enough
Super Dragon Ball Heroes just with double the episode time and slowed down pace. But I like its fun and cool moments. The overall product (not counting the movies) is a 5.5/10 for me. I think there were some good concepts like Super Saiyan Blue, but the execution was poor.
A fun and casual continuation of the original manga.
I couldn't agree more. I initially loved Blue. Until Super Saiyan Blue it. 5.5 is about right as well.
@@SaiyanScholar for me, my favorite character was goku black…then the end of the saga happened. My favorite forms were god and sign…then immediately get replaced. My favorite fight was gonna be Jiren…is what I would say if I actually liked him
funny enough, Heroes is much better than Super in terms of concepts and execution. Even the fights look more impressive. When we add the Heroes Manga into the equation, Super is getting stomped like a bug.
Yeah Super Saiyan Blue. Let's take a Super Saiyan and slap the blue color on it. Peak creativity. Peak concept 😂🎉
It's true but i really believe some points were good like the Goku Black arc.
Dbs would be remembered for me as : Good idea / Bad execution
Super is a Parody. It's no coincidence that seemingly everything has been lifted from actual Parodies like Dragon Ball AF which Toyotaro only happened to write. Toyotaro which does most, if not all of Super writing and drawing; allegedly Toriyama writes outlines but the man is old and doesn't care anymore, the outlines might as well be "big bad strong, Goku gets stronger" and Toyotaro does the rest. Either that of Toriyama steals from Parodies himself.
I liked parts of Super but waiting 6 months for something that wasn't a Z movie hurt. 26/131 episodes were movie retellings. Talk about a "slow start" eh GT fans? Why wouldn't Ginyu steal Gohan's body once he saw Super Saiyan?
The Zamasu arc could have been resolved in two words: Time Rings. Remove the Time Rings and the events either wouldn't happen or at the very least time treachery has the hakai'd Black paradox not exist and makes immortal Zamasu not immortal since Black enlisted him and he never wanted to act on it. No Zeno stupidity, this was a battle they kept failing on repeat.
Hell how the Gas arc kept all over the place felt like a parody ignoring established rules about UI seemed like a shitty fanfiction you'll find on forums. Hell the end was a toddler tier ending worse than Zamasu: The big bad is too tough to defeat so Freeza kills him!
Super Hero only redeeming factor was the Piccolo love, and the Gammas were cool too. Hated how the Super Broly film ruined Broly and Bardock.
Now that I completely shat over Super I'll stop. Didn't plan on it.
I'm rewatching super rn. And now the biggest gripe I've noticed is how wacked out power scaling is. To the point where alot of the dialog is characters being surprised by characters. Because the only way to emphasize power dynamics is to have a 3rd party character comment on how surprised or disappointed he is of said character in the fight
Thank you for this video. Real fans know all the weaknesses and it's good for us to talk about this. We've been fans for nearly 25+ years haven't we all? I wonder if they respect the fans the ones that follow the journey. Why build characters up to break them down randomly without any reason
My only thing is that 18 certainly wouldn't have been the same level as 17 because of free time alone to train. Freiza got a dumb boost from minimal training (dumb i know) so why not someone whose floor was higher than Freizas original ceiling? 17 was off screen for 12 years in-show so who knows. But the writers should have SHOWN us that he trained at the least
if 17 trained on the level needed to reach ssj blue he would've destroyed earth or at least become noticed by the gang, not nobody even knowing where he is.
You said this, knowing damn well Boruto exists.
I'm just playing he has very valid points.
Boruto is Just the same vibe garbage from an golden era to garbage era
You compare how Dragon Ball and Naruto are being treated to how Bleach is being treated (with this legit God tier adaptation, 3 episodes in and the adaptation is flawless and the visuals of the show are perfect). Because yeah, DBS and Boruto struggle a lot in the writing department as is but even from a technical standpoint, the anime are really visually lacking apart from a few key scenes, you really feel that the budget they were given was tight. There isn't much to salvage honestly, it's just ...... disappointing (even as someone who never latched onto Naruto that much and always felt it was the weakest of the Big 3, I still feel insulted by Boruto lmao)
Boruto is better in every way than Super because:
- there is actual tension
- interesting characters
- not every character gets ruined
- has consequenses
- has actual violence and good fights
- has at least 1 good arc. Super doesn't even have a single decent or mediocre arc.
@@M3rtyville buuuut still boruto gets reset every arc and behaves like a brat again
and some arcs switched places
@@JamezP that happens in every arc of Super.
Goku and Vegeta still take turns and have to relearn to work together. At the end they have to use a plot device to solve the issue.
Also both underestimate their opponents and Goku keeps getting caught off guard.
Meanwhile Boruto now respects his dad and has an excuse to act bratty considering he is a child.
Goku acting like a psychopath and not knowing basic shit after all the experiences and making amateur mistakes in battle isn't.
I'm a "new gen fan" i was born before the battle of gods movie came out and i start watching dragon ball a year or so before the super anime released, i watched the classic, z and gt, and i was pissed when i saw the new dragon ball super anime, my favorite back then was Z but now it's gt because it's the most nostalgic to me and i feel like it ended the series perfectly
Ironic, how Dragon Ball Z did away with power levels to show how meaningless and unreliable they were. Now in DBS, fights are won by who can scream louder or shoot a bigger blast.
dragon ball super really do be exposing me to how capitalism destroys art
Toriyama and Toei don’t care about anime or Japanese people. It’s just a paycheck now.
"Capitalism" is a Marxist word for the free market. It's just plain old greed at play here.
Art only excels in a free society. Once the artist sells out the art ceases to be unique. Capitalism has nothing to do with. In communism, art is controlled by the state in most cases. Capitalism lets art get made, then the public chooses to support it or not.
Blame the artist that sells out not an economic system.
Corporation = Greed and lack of originality just to get a paycheck
Free market would mean the most freedom to make whatever art you want. Capitalism gives incentive to buy art then bastardize it like Disney with Star Wars. In a government controlled economy the art would be more restrictive and you wouldn’t be free to criticize the gov in your art
I always had problem with lack of damage/blood on the characters.
After all, they are mortals that wield powers of a god. Wouldnt be a good idea to make them bleed to show that they are still flesh and bones???
Lack of blood on the gods of destruction or angels would suffice however as they were naturally godly. Born as gods.
Honestly the whole "god ki" is what made whole series go upside down. Even GT with its ludicrous plot power ups, felt more natural without this god ki nonsense.
All in all, db super is just junkfood for eyes. Edible, but thats about it.
Not just edible, it actually taste good, why would you eat it otherwise?
@@zacarnold2970 i think we both have different definition on taste bud.
@@deoxysandmew2162 Well then why are you eating junk food then?
@@zacarnold2970 Heh you misunderstood, i will let you figure this one out yourself.
@@zacarnold2970 heh you still havent figured it out. Too bad.
Im too tired to explain something so trivial.
what's so ironic for me is I'm only halfway througn Scholar's video of dbs- The Soulless Disgrace now I have the next part to watch
7:50 I think that actually works. "Ultimate" Gohan is the result of _two_ hidden potential unlocks, first by Guru as a kid and then as a teen by the Elder Kai. So... he should _always_ be at the equivalent of his own God form. That makes it make the most sense. Elder Kai's potential unlock doesn't make a lot of sense unless he let Gohan tap into a new power. His limits were already removed a decade prior on Namek. What else could explain the odd Ultimate form other than it being God Form but without needing to activate God Form? It fits the source, the explanation, the weird effects like "no need for Super Saiyan" which is akin to God reverting their physical form to their base but red, and of course it places the Ultimate Form into a logical progressions of forms. Ultimate is just unlocking your God Form power without going into god form. Getting back to his old power level and then exceptionally beyond should be extremely simple for him, because he's not using traditional forms anymore.
I agree bro, but I would've made it at least a week of training honestly
I just finished up watching this video.
I pretty much think you’re spot on.
I really liked the movies.
I think they did a huge disservice to vegeta (in a sense), gohan, goten, trunks, piccolo, tien and krillin. Almost forgot buu.
Also future trunks
The random rage boost made no sense
I did like the future trunks arc the best overall
But it was a poor man’s cell saga (everything with cell in it, androids, cell games etc)
I wish they would’ve never adapted the first two movies.
They missed a huge arc possibility with the universe 6 saiyans/tournament.
After the tournament the universe 7 saiyans could’ve gone to universe 6. Actually had training sessions like in Dragonball, or any major arc in z.
Could’ve built up relationships between the saiyans race(s)
Actually got where the universe 6 saiyans trained to get super saiyan etc.
have had goku and vegeta train with hit.
So the power creep wasn’t as unexplained.
During this time have the humans train together and say learn fusion. Imagine a tien and krillin fusion.
Give them some sort of tri bean distructo disk attack.
Or the multiple body technique coupled with 100x solar flare.
Bring back 16 (he was my favorite)
Honestly overall I prefer gt over the super anime
Was it prefect no
Was it more true to the original source and its audience yes
Thank you for the solid video
DBS has terrible story and terrible art and animation, I could barely watch through it. DBGT >>>> DBS lol. They really do need to retcon the whole thing as some made up nonsense that Goku dreamed about after fighting Buu in DBZ. Just leave it at that and let it be dead.
DBGT isn't THAT good
@@SalimShahdiOff It's not that good, but honestly at least it did a better job at getting the personalities of the characters correct. Even when they were going for the old db group of 2-3 boy, girl, older, team/friends sort of thing, Goku took situations seriously. GT at least had the benefit of having been made not long after Z ended, since most people would have had a good idea on how to actually portray the characters.
Dragon Ball Super is just a fever dream, it never happened, you guys, it wasnt real!
As far as I'm concerned, DBS is in the same category as seasons 7&8. They're so bad we shouldn't even acknowledge them.
I enjoyed it. To suggest that DBGT is superior to DB Super is just sour grapes. Yes, some of the characters sucked, power scaling is ridiculous, SSJ is suddenly so easy to achieve. But, whatever. I still look forward to the return of Super
Watch Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, you'll get all package in one.
Story? Check
Character development? Check
Emotional attachment? Check
Unforgettable moment? Check
Intense moments? Check
Blood? Check! Like heck Jojo got a lot of bloodbath
Fights that have actual strategy? Check
No power creep? Check
You got it all. I've watched DBS, and what a huge disappointment. But when i discovered Jojo's bizarre adventure, it was a life changing moment and goddamn its like i just watched a freaking movie!
Jojo is a anime when you can rewatch it nonstop too it's good
Words can’t express how much I appreciate the terry silver reference
9:25 them toning down the violence makes the stakes feel a lot smaller too. The characters bleeding made their wounds feel more real
Dude. Super. Man. Na. They tripping. They be doing stuff just to do stuff. Pointless transformations. Goku Black was dope. But he lost his black Air Force Energy once he fused with the green guys. Then he became a nut job. And that bald head red and white pickle lookin dude was strong just because. No reason. I forgot his name. He was red and black with bulgy eyes. And the Body of Tien. And hit. Boy. Was he a waste. He could have been good. Man. Super sucks
Jiren?
Didn’t even bother to watch super. The moment I heard krillin and Roshi were belng used for the tournament of power, I knew it had completely lost the plot. Toriyama left us a hot pile of 💩
When Super Dragon Ball Heroes has better storytelling, characterization and fights, you know your show is bad.
Speaking of Heroes, they introduced Super Saiyan 4 avatars giving us the first official child Super Saiyan 4 and the first female Super Saiyan 4.
If SSG had given Goku access to magic and such, making it so that instead of straight power being what wins the fight it’s how he uses his new magic in addition to his fighting experience and techniques; I think it would have been better. It also would have justified the thinner body because the emphasis is on magic and using the body as a conduit for said magic instead of brute force.
And let vegeta get it onscreen, maybe by being around goku while he’s practicing and then training together in base, and he ascends when thinking about his family. Or something. I’m not a writer, but I would watch a storyline that follows this.
Definitely disagree with like 95% of what was said but still a well made video.
The biggest disappointment for me is when I hear tournament in dragon ball I think of a 1v1 tournament not a damn royal rumble with a million stupid characters I don’t care about yes that includes the saiyans from the other universe. Biggest fumble in dragon ball history and it made me wanting to go back to when I thought GT was as bad as it can get
Now with akira gone. the Series is probably going to get worse
I think it’s telling that I’ve never once gone back and revisited any Super arc since the first time I’ve watched it.
Always great content thanks keep it up
This is hilarious to me, because I remember predicting this to a colleague who would update me sometimes when it started. I live DB/DBZ. I told him I'd have no part of anything to do with it. When I was growing up these stories and journey's of a hero pretty much ended at the Cell Games. There in lies so much knowledge, wisdom, philosophy, and PAIN. It's over though. Buu Saga's alright but Cinderella's fairy godmother conjured that up out of no where so it only kind of counts. Ultra instinct as a concept is A1, and falls in line with maximizing the original super saiyan form. Which technically, if applied to a base form capable of multiple high energy level stressing transformations, should be able to conserve energy and deliver a robustly divine efficiently energetically enhancing blow lol anyways welcome one and all! I've been waiting for you! Glad to see you've come around to your senses lol hope strategists
Saiyan Scholar is the biggest hater in Anime content creator history 💀💀💀💀 Jk man I love your videos 😂😂
He's not wrong, even if the Dragon Ball franchise doesn't have the best plots, the writing and potential they wasted is astounding. The power system, martial techniques, and abilities, along with the character background and in-depth they used to focus on back in the original Dragon Ball has disappeared. Wonder if the writers really intended for super to turn out like this....
Tbh, the only character that made sense for me, was 17. At least in the ToP, he was clearly outclassed by the main characters, but his infinite energy and abilitys were used very well imo. And considering a lot of time passed since the Cell Arc, it was plossible he's gotten stronger.
But overall the "train for 1-3 days, and get on Goku and Vegeta level" was soo overused. Sure maybe frieza made sense the first time, but once master Roshi was holding on better than Krillin, I was just beating my head against the wall. How can Gohan make a bigger leap, just training a fiev days, than when he spent 10 months on the hyperbolic time chamber, where the gravity is 10 times stronger, and the was there only to train. Just dumb.
My head cannon is that after the buu arc, Goku also reached his full potential, with the normal hair, like gohan, and then he met Uub, and that way DB makes the most sense, and Uub being able to stay in there with ultimate Goku has him so impressed, he decides to train him. The end.
love your videos man I enjoy your takes and there aren't that many people who just flat out say what they believe. Most people just put a bunch of sugar coating on it to make other people feel better
Saiying we never got an iconic episode is just pure hate, the entire world blew up when goku turned UI for the first time
Yeah, I watched Super during it's first run and people were hyped when Vegito came back, when Goku blasted Kefla out of the ring, when Goku Black turned Rose, UI Goku as whole, people were hyped for numerous moments in Super.
I don't get the hate people seem to suddenly have about Super. The Attitude Era is brought here as a comparison of modern WWE to that era, but like Super compared to DBZ there have been tons of iconic moments and matches that are just as good as anything from the attitude Era
I don't get it, are these bitter DBZ super fans who want to act like Super never had any hype moments because it was not DBZ 2.0?
Because outside of a few people, once we got to Future Trunks Saga, most people I saw online loved Super and it crashed Crunchyroll's servers as we got to the end of the ToP.
Fans in some countries in South America watched the final fight between Goku and Jiren and we're cheering.
The hype was there. Why this sudden rewrite that Super was a failed show that nobody cared about?
Super is not perfect and I still prefer OG Dragon Ball and DBZ to it, but it's still a damn good show that I enjoy revisiting.
Very good video, the truth is that yes, I think it goes for the point you mentioned that the new characters (and even the existing ones) have a very bad development, they are totally flat, but I also think it goes hand in hand with the idea that they have very little time to develop, because, they were created with a very specific purpose (a bad one in my opinion) which is to be a stepping stone for the main characters, becoming totally disposable. As I mentioned great video, you got it right. I think the worst part of it all is that they are very good concepts, but poorly executed, I think just the fact that they are good concepts having potential keeps me still waiting for more from the franchise. I leave my like.
As much as I want to defend Dragon ball super. This guy is 100% correct. I can’t defend how badly everything is written and how bad the animation is
Man... if Master Roshi wouldve died in the tournament of power, that wouldve been such a good, emotional episode... but they couldnt do that right either lol.
There were so many points in the series that they couldve really done something good with and they just totally dropped the ball.
Whis can bring people to life. There are literally no stakes. Seriously what was so emotional in the Roshi episode??? I keep seeing people praising it but it was completely hollow and meaningless
I gotta admit...there were times I was hopeful...
I remember saying to myself at key moments - like when Goku stacked Kaioken ontop of Blue, and then Ultra Instinct Omen - "Super is now as good as Z."
But it never stayed there. And after a while, it just started to annoy me.
7:40 Gohan trains through the entirety of Dragon Ball Super, after Freeza teaches him the same lesson for a second time so no, it wasn't 1 *Day* it was more like 1 *Year* .
But wasn't that the point of the buu saga don't slack or get cocky?
@@cooper2211 still better than gt Gohan.
@@cooper2211 like I said *the same lesson for a second time* so you didn't fuckin read the comment
@@zacarnold2970 I mean in his defense its years after buu and everything has been chill so makes sense for him to not really train. But super is just months after the buu arc
@@cooper2211 bro Gohan trained during the timeskip to gt and end of z it literally states he *never* stopped training, which explains how he's so strong
My first contact with the DB series was with Super, when he debuted on Cartoon Network here in Brazil, and I have a great affection for the series for introducing me to this incredible universe... but I can't deny that it sucks. After watching DB Classic, Z and GT I noticed how bad this anime was compared to what came years ago. It's sad to see that what made me a huge fan of the series was the worst thing since DB Evolution. But that sadness passed when I first read Future Trunks Saga in the manga, it brought me this good feeling, as if I was watching DB Classic and Z again. Since then I stopped watching the anime and I've been following the manga, and even though it's not as good as Z was, it still makes me happy to know that there's the minimum of love and care put into those pages by Toyotaro. But as I now know that the anime will follow the manga's story, I'm looking forward to watching the Moro and Granolah Saga being animated, and hoping that the next saga will be good too.
(My english sucks, I know :P)
Ngl I've started appreciating super a lot more after superhero dropped, people hated that movie but I absolutely adored it, it really resparked my passion for this franchise and when I watched it as a whole, I noticed that it suffered from the same problems as GT (sorry scholar) that being cool ideas, poor execution, I mean universal tournament? EVIL GOKU???, Cool as fuck bro, unfortunately GT is kinda the same although at least that wasn't as safe and happy as super
I agree with you while is was watching Super I always thought they are bringing out half of the potential that it could have had I hope once the new anime drops it will be a banger
Super has no good ideas. It has the flaws of all Dragon Ball series but non of its strength:
- lack of good story, adventure and organic storytelling like DBZ
- lack of useful characters like DBGT
- lack of substance, overuse of fan service, repetitive fights and tension... like in Super Dragon Ball Heroes
Not to mention, it has all the flaws from every fanfiction I have read. Freaking Dragon Ball Multiverse is better than Super and that is a repetitive Tournament comic that just won't end.
@@M3rtyville you can't tell me a multiversal tournament, if done well, would be boring, but other than that you're right
@@thewitness257 after not even exploring a single of these universes, how are you even interested in a tournament full of nobodies?
There is not a single justification why any of these characters are as strong as they are.
That wasn't even a tournament. That was a battle royal and 1 fight. A tournament has peliminaries and several rounds.
Even if we ignore these issues, how is a tournament at this point of the story going to be interesting?
@@M3rtyville I said it's a cool concept, but poorly executed, I didn't actually enjoy watching
I felt the exact same way during the time Super was airing. Every week waiting for the big turn-around moment that never came. The only episode that got me legit hyped and also delivered on it was the double episode of Goku unlocking Ultra Instinct for the first time. It's just too bad we've all seen how UI gets treated like trash and loses everything that made it special the first time later on in the manga.
Dragon ball needs to Bring back the old artstyle like DBZ and GT Not this clear animation that's literally what made DBZ and GT Good and famous in the first place is it's artstyle and story writing.
Unfortunately times have clearly changed. It's cheaper to use cgi. Look at the latest movie. It feel's off, the cgi that is.
Another thing about DBS you left out that grinds my gears is the extreme lack of detail.
Good example: characters like Bulma and Gohan had the most appearance changes in Z. Their appearance changed every single arc, sometimes even multiple times an arc. Everything from their clothing to their hairstyle, It made it feel authentic like you can actually feel things changing and time progressing. Yet In DBS, everyone is stuck with the same design the whole series with no change especially Bulma. She has now had the same uniform look and hairstyle for what has been years now. Things like this are the main reason a lot of viewers aren't aware of any time progression in the show.
Same with Gohan, The only time his appearance would change would be the very few times Toriyama would get involved and design him, which were for the resurrection F movie and superhero movie.... So really only movie wise lol. That's bad, It truly showcases the lack of soul and passion in DBS
You are so right !!! I don't understand why so many people like it
The cereal box description describes super nicely. When we are left with more questions than answers then it just feels like they are just thinking of the next transformation to make money. The next fan service thing. Vegito Blue only appearing in one episode, just like Heroes does, to sell products. If the stories of things like Super Saiyan Rage or Universe 6 Saiyans was more fleshed out, it would feel less cash grabby. Yet they couldn’t deliver on that. And when they do deliver on things it is sorta hollow. Things like the Potara fusion having a time limit or even Gohan not being able to see without his glasses when not in Super Saiyan form are just poor reasons, though Gohan not having his glasses is actually the better of the two. I do like Super, I just wish it was more fulfilling.
Dragon Ball fans like definitive answers. No questioning is this character stronger than this one. Super just wants to lead us on to keep us coming back which isn’t the best way to do it.
The Black arc was the best arc. It was nice and gritty. It had emotions and feelings, but it had the stupidest ending ever. That is what annoys me the most. Why even have Zamasu come back at all. They did it just so the stupid Zeno button could be used. Which it didn’t need to be used. We lost a whole timeline, because of it. Everything Trunks had fought for was gone. And his story cheapened because the gods were always there to fix things. It would of been nice if they just left it there with Trunks beating Zamasu and the Earth continuing from there. And yes Trunks had an ass pull power up, but he seemingly deserved it after all the shit he went through.
Super is good, even great, but it is far from flawless. If they only had the fans in mind and not the money it would of been the best series to have come out.
I'm gonna be the one to say it. I appreciate Dragonball GT right now.
Zamasu's saga was a grim ending. Youd think vegito showing up would have been a good close but they ruined it and gave the bleakest ending possible.
Honestly Dragon Ball never felt like it had high stakes except for Future Trunks' timeline. They always had the dragon balls to bail them out.
It didn't always had high stakes but it did become worst. For example...Cell destroying earth would basically f*ck the earth for at least when namek disocvered if they discovered(what was not the case in the trunks timeline) or when Majin Boo was destroying all the universe...like even if dragon balls,if he was not stopped...he would still destroy the universe. Dragon ball always did had lower stakes,but not in the level of non stakes that super has.[
King Piccolo, Saiyan and Namek arcs had high stakes as the Dragonballs were gone for a while.
@@DynastyZwarrior90 Exactly, King Piccolo killed Shen Long and we had no idea Kami even existed or something could be done about it, there were the highest stakes in the series imo (that most people watched the arc after knowing what happened next it's a different story).
In the Saiyan saga it was softer because we had hints Namek existed and had their Dragonballs, but they were just hints and space travel was a foreign concept to the protagonists at the time, so those deaths also felt much more serious than later anyway.