When I first found this channel, I was expecting gun, and gun stuff. I wasn't expecting to get advice from a father, husband, or the other man to man kind of advice. As a young father of a two year old, Thank you! It's a blessing to have a good person further down the path of life sharing the advice from experience. You bring up a lot of topics I don't see many others taking about. You bring great insight, especially your video on Marriage. I'm only three and a half years married now. I wish I would have seen it sooner. Great teaching! To You, your team, and your family. Thank you for the hard work, and dedication to WPS. God bless you, and the Warrior Poet Society!
That's what drew me to his channel. Too many guys like him carry around an ego that is obnoxious. He gives you stuff to think about, is a deep thinker, and talks to you like you're one of the bros.
All my grandkids are getting trades. Never out of work. We need people who can make, mend, build, fix, problem solve, repurpose, sew, grow, and generally trust their own skills than listen and wait for someone else to tell them how or why.
But they had to learn these skills from somewhere right? Nobody has these skills innately. Like my uncle taught me how to operate a tractor. He was teaching me a necessary skill to plant crops. I don’t see the issue with being taught how to do things.
My grandmother taught all of us boys to sew, I thought it was stupid then but I was good at it, fast forward, and that skill has saved me a bunch on my uniforms by mending them myself as well as sewing all my rank and such myself. It's definitely not a stupid skill and I thank my grandmother for putting up with my whining about it.
@@TomahawksNShotShells Same here, we all had to sew our uniforms in boot camp, some of us just looked better, now at the age of 73, I'm grateful of the skills I learned from Dad and Mom.
I never went to college and was called a fool and idiot. In fact, I remember one of my uncles telling me "Once you get back to your senses let me know and I'll help you out with paying for it." To this day that is one decision I have not regretted.
I'm one of those that went and it was a terrible waste. I am now a master plumber building my own business. My degree has turned out to be completely worthless and cost me tens of thousands of dollars. Worst investment ever.
Enjoyed this post, John. Though my kids are all grown and self-sufficient now, I relate so much to what you expressed. When I was a kid in a blue-collar Texas family, there was no expectation of going to college and no urge to do so. After 4 years of Army Jr. ROTC I enlisted in the Navy. It was while swabbing decks and painting stuff I decided to get commissioned. When one of our officers tried to get me to re-up, I asked for an officer path like LDO, or Bootstrap, some way to get to college and commission. That gentleman told me I could never be an officer because I was from “the wrong social class.” That ticked me off to no end, so I got out and used the GI Bill, graduated college with a BS degree and got a commission in the Air Force, where I served until retirement. I was the first college grad in my family, but my values were set long before I ever went to college. My enlisted time allowed me to experience life and decide WHY I wanted a degree. So many kids are just thrust into college because their parents expect it. Some are ready, but others are not. I saw a lot of well-off kids waste their parents’ money partying instead of studying because they had already done 12 years of school and had no idea why they had to do 4 more. Having watched that, and since my parents had no way to send me to college-which I wouldn’t have been ready for at 18 anyway-I made the decision that I would not create a college fund for my children. I told them as children they had no such fund, that if they wanted to go to college they would either need to earn scholarships or use the GI Bill by serving. I will say I worried for years if I did the right thing, fearing I had disadvantaged them. But I think now I made the right choice. None were ready for college at 18, but all of them eventually went to college after living some life and all of them did it on their own hook. One is a Lt Colonel now, the other a GS-13 and the third a CPA. They all did it on their own. They were never spoiled or “given” it. Most of my peers still create funds for their kids and expect them to go to college. That wasn’t for me. The truth is some kids need to be in trades, some in professions. Their is no dishonor in either as long as they’re performed ethically. If they (kids) want it bad enough they can earn it on their own, but they will have to struggle and fight for it; then they earn it and it is not a gift. It is a hard lesson, but one I’m proud my kids learned. Nobody handed them anything. They earned it all themselves. And as openly Marxist and anti-American as many universities have become, sending 18-year olds to them is like sending them to communist woke indoctrination. Older kids who have worked real jobs and seen real life are less susceptible to Marxist BS at 22 or 25 than at 18. It was a tough call, but not having a college fund for my kids worked out great. It wasn’t easy and they struggled, but they are far stronger for it, good citizens and good people. So, I comprehend your reasons perfectly. As for university political propaganda, the old saying remains true: If you’re not a liberal when you’re young then you have no heart; if you’re still a liberal when you’re old, then you have no brain. A quaint saying, perhaps, but that bone has meat.
The Navy has the strictest social caste system in the world. Its Annapolis or 2nd class. They used to call it "mustang officers". Also, i apparently had no heart and am also teaching my boys to be heartless carnivores. No one has a decade and a half to figure out their shit anymore. Its exponentially harder for me than it was for my dad and i have to forecaet its going to be exponentially harder for my boys.
I saw my friends and sibling do college right out of highschool, funded by parents, and the kids didn't value it enough to do well; it meant nothing to them, they didnt pick a degree that worked for them, and most didn't even finish. On the other hand, I waited 13 years after highschool, until I had grown up a bit and come to really value hard work and the cost of tuition, and then I picked a very challenging degree, and I paid for it myself. I got a LOT out of college, but only because IT WAS ME who put a lot into college.
That's nice, but I can't say that I don't value my parent's money, I understand that financial load it is, they tend to project what they are paying on what I am making, to show me how much it actually is. I am 17, in high school, and working, while also doing college, and I can say that I am not doing great, which like you said is something that happens a lot in highschool, but it's not because of costs, it's because of the amount of stress from the stupidly large amount of work being put one in one period, and then a normal workload every other period. I get this Post's purpose, but I only slightly disagree.
@@Gruuvin1 only the part where you say that none of us value our parents money, that it means nothing to us. I agree with the rest of it though Edit; unless you are specifically referring to friends or something
@@Gruuvin1 I see it now, I don't know how I could have missed it, it's the first sentence! But still, when you say "kids", it /seems/ to bring open the statement to everyone who gets part of their college paid by parents, even if that was not the intent. I apologize for my misreading.
I never even considered a college fund...family couldn't believe it. Both my boys joined the traded through local college. Both employed, and no loans...we doing great! Thanks for the videos, awesome job!
I got my BA and MBA while in the Navy during my shore duty tours. So I worked a full time job during the day and went to school at night. Each degree was achieved in less than 3 years with 3.95 and 3.98 GPAs. Time management was the challenge vs difficulty of content. Tuition assistance helped defray the cost of tuition and the rest was out of pocket. I retired from the Navy after 20 years of service with no College debt, a skilled trade (nuclear electronics technician), and years of leadership and management experience.
@@aaronwilson1666 Same here. I enlisted after goofing around for almost 2 years in college with aspirations of finishing my biology degree with G.I. Bill money. But life took me in another direction and I've been in the manufacturing field since '94. Only slight regret...not doing 6 yrs and getting more electronics training that I ended up doing as a civilian.
@@davidhowell7901 HAHA, I was also in college for a Bio degree. but, messed around. Got caught up partying too much and that landed me in jail a couple times. Which led to me enlisting.
As a 19 year old, I went to college, same as all of my friends, and I was even going for engineering. But after my first semester I had a sort of epiphany, and that’s that I just didn’t want to do it. I didn’t like it, I didn’t feel I was gaining anything from it, the course I thought I wanted to take with my life wasn’t what I wanted, so I left. Left behind all my friends and my girlfriend who stayed and went to work at a port. Here I feel I’ve gained more experience after only a few weeks than I have while I was paying to learn, and I couldn’t be happier. I’m going to enlist later this year in the army (hoping to get into ranger bat with an option 40) and I couldn’t be more excited about it. This video really cemented my choice to follow my heart and mind and take control of my own life. Thank y’all so much for making this content
@@two_legit1832Life has a funny way of making things happen. Not very long after this comment I got into an accident while helping my brother-in-law repair the roof of the warehouse he works out of. Ended up with multiple broken bones, including a caved-in heel, and a brain bleed due to falling ~24 feet. After 7 surgeries and a year of recovery, I’m left with an arthritic wrist with barely any mobility, a reconstructed heel that ended up damaging the tendons in my foot, and a knee detach the moment I get too close to a powerful magnet. I’m back in college now, seeking a different degree in a field that I actually enjoy, with the goal of using it to serve my country in a more civilian capacity. So far it’s going much better than it did my last attempt, so I’m holding out hope.
The best part about the path you chose is you can always go back and get that engineering degree. And you won't have to live with the "What if I tried to join the Rangers?" or "What if I had worked at that port?"
When I was college age (many moons ago), college was still the goto path. Even at that time, I recognized that most people were using college as extended highschool. Coming from a homeschool environment, this was never an attraction to me, but I see college now and the indoctrination in ideology that goes along with it, and it makes me question whether it is good to even have it as an option these days. As for funding of college, my parents had a great strategy which I will likely use: My parents paid for half of my oldest brother's tuition and he worked through college to pay the other half. He turned around and paid half of my tuition, while I worked through college and paid for half. We both exited college appreciating the education and effort to earn it, and being debt free. It also helps a LOT going to a community college for 2 years to get your bearings, determine a direction, and get the electives out of the way before finishing a 4yr degree at a bigger university. Another thing I believe helps stave off indoctrination is attending a local college and staying at home. All too soon enough, kids are old enough to be on their own but 18, 19, 20 are transition ages. Not quite old enough or wise enough to handle everything on their own, but too old to be sheltered.
As a college student, John hit the nail on the head with this. My colleagues really are rewired to be intelligent, but have terrible values. I honestly wished I went to a community college then commute to a larger university after two years. I have about a year and a half left of this trash and can’t wait to be finished.
Yea if your that close you might as well finish and get your diploma. I Graduated with a degree in Criminal Justice with a minor in psychology. By the time I finished I knew one thing, I didn’t want to be a cop. Or corrections officer. Almost took a job as a parole officer. Have been working construction since the day I graduated and I enjoy what I do. I have been doing it long enough now I can pick what type of work I want to do. I don’t even put my college degree an my resume now. Not many college gads in my line of work. One guy said he almost didn’t hire me because of I had a degree 😂😂😂😂.
My daughter is going to a technical college for Occupational Therapy Assistant. She’s 20 y/o and has known that is what she wants to do since she was about 15. She decided on Technical college because she knew she didn’t need to go to a 4 year college just to do her job. She interested in working with Vets so I’m hoping she will get a job with VA. Lord knows the VA could use the help.
4th generation to not attend college. Instead of throwing money away, my great grandparents bought property to leave to the up and coming generations for our family. Its been nonstop hardwork upkeeping the properties for us but their forethought has set us up for success and i couldnt be more thankful for them paving the road for my parents and now me and now i have something to leave for my son as well. We've acquired more property and still are looking for more. I'm all for education, but the best education I've received has been from my parents and a select group of philosophers like John Lovell, Jordan Peterson, and various other great thinkers of our time. Train hard. Train smart.
My great grandparents property got stolen by my great step grandmother and her lazy kids... That land had been in our family for generations and my grandmother was the only child. She was supposed to get everything according the original will... As my great grandfather was dying he told his 2nd wife and his only child where it was. Then it went missing... My parents were poor and in their early 20s. They didnt fight it... Their parents(my grandparents) were dying of cancer or had already passed(they didnt live long).. So they chose to fight the cancer instead of fight for the farm... We lost 40+ acres of NC Farm land and 50+ acres of Dairy Farm in Leicester NC... Carefully layout who gets the land and cherish the fact your generational wealth wasnt stolen from you by an old whore...
@@krisersn3092 it’s comical to think that the only way to learn information is to pay communists $10,000 a year to teach you that information. I think you missed the entire point of this speech.
@Tin N Im not bragging. I am eternally grateful for the blessings my Granny and Grandpa bestowed upon my family with their forethought and wisdom. They lived through the depression, my grandpa fought all the way through ww11 and korea, even after all that struggle they still lived for the higher purpose of providing their family with Love and Stability and the teachings of how to follow Jesus. You can enjoy the highest education you want, I guarantee you that it wont provide the happiness and security that my land in Texas and a family full of Love and support for each other will.
100% correct here. I love that you caveat all of this with medical and engineering professions. I moved to the US, knew I had to do engineering, and engineering only. Did that at a state school, got a job at a top aerospace and defense company, and they paid for my masters in engineering. I’d say college was definitely worth it for me, especially as an immigrant. That’s why there is a higher percentage of immigrants in STEM. We understand the game here and play it to win.
Bump for engineering reference. It's time and money well spent from just about any perspective. As a EE it always shocks me how uncurious most people are about how all of their devices work.
As well as Law and Accountancy, although some might debate about the quality of various programs, they are necessary if only because degrees have become mandated for those careers.
Things to teach a child:- Let your child learn that they are loved. That love comes with discipline. Teach them how to work. Teach them how to learn. Teach them values. Teach them the value of inspiration. Teach them the value of perspiration. Teach them that any job, every job is worthy. Teach them that anyone who holds a job is noble. Teach them that they are blessed. Teach them to give more than they take. Teach them the habit of making the World a better place. Teach them the practise of helping those they interact with better people. Teach them the value of family. Teach them that the most important job in the World is to raise the next generation well. Teach them by doing, not by telling
I have 3 siblings that went to college. One the school of visual arts 100k in debt, another Wentworth Institute of technology 125k in debt, and another for education degree at state school 65k in debt. I joined the IBEW electrical trade union zero debt. NONE OF THEM WORK IN THE FIELDS THEY ARE IN DEBT FOR!
Counterpoint: Here are a few examples of high school classmates who attended university: One's an engineer working at Lockheed. His internships in college paid better over a summer than the average job does in a year. Oh, and he graduated without a cent of debt because he exercised halfway intelligent financial planning. Another is an officer in the Army, he flies helos for a living with a promising career ahead. A third studied biochemistry. She's probably the smartest person I know and is doing very well for herself. As for me, I'm just about to wrap up a civil engineering degree and have swathe of well-paid job offers to choose from. It takes a certain person to go to college, and succeed. Clearly none of your siblings made the grade.
Intelligence has less to do with it than picking a career field that is useful. STEM in college is useful, and makes it worth going to. Arts, very rarely. There's a difference between a hobby and a career field.
@@skeletor5571 Counterpoints are often like winning Lotto tickets found on the parking lot pavement: they are super nice but you better not count on it happening often.
I went to a Christian college for missions and at first I thought it was great, but later I began to realize that I could have just started with a missionary or pastor instead who could have taught me the same thing or even more without having to spend so much. I could have just gotten the books like John mentioned. I totally agree!
I jumped right into the workforce after highschool with the only training being from an elective class. 18 years later I'm still a machinist as I was from day one. Unfortunately it's a dying trade, but I love what I do. Plus I make gun parts all day, so yay for that.
I came out of high school and went straight into the Marine Corps, looking back its been the best decision for me. It got me into shape, given me steady income, and I’m going into the first experimental class to combine the welding and machinist jobs. I’ll have the training for 2 trades when I get out of the Corps.
Sounds like a awesome path. Graduated welding school myself and I’m wanting to join the airforce as a machinist/welder. A bit backwards, but it’ll give me confidence and other life essentials that I lack and get me on track.
I'm a chemist and in the high level r&d you can't do without knowing about molecular orbitals and quantum physics. So university it is, and it'll be that way 100 years from now. But we have a shortage of trained lab technicians. Hell, if somebody semi trustworthy from the street came in we'd just teach him how to do shit, and he'd be a contributing member of society in no time. But they don't. Teenagers just don't become a lab technician or plumber these days. Robots won't replace you in the next 50 years in those fields, yet they go into expensive gender studies degrees that were obsolete a year prior to their invention.
@I QUIT YT spread out wide during your bachelors, see what's out there. See what she likes, but also what has practical applications. Organic chemistry has maybe 5 cancer drug research positions per year. Industrial polymers, battery ceramics, that's where the money and jobs are at. Forget about university and ask where you can work in your field. If only 3 companies come up, that's not a reliable plan. There are thousands of polymer based materials produced for everything. Material science is applicable in the real world, since you make real industry product.
Except you technically don't need collage to get that anymore. :) And in collage they are just gonna brain wash you with brain dead nonsense about evolution and atheism.
@@nicknaylor9895 like, what a lab technician does, or how to become one? If you already have a degree you're probably overqulified and disappointed by pay. They are my little minions running the lab. I'm too expensive to clean beakers, so i have them doing it. But they are very skilled with our machines, do experiments if i sign off that they are safe, they are the actual workers. I'm just the brain and management of the laboratory, the Ph.D. for good optics. And what you do depends on the industry. Medical analysis, food quality control, r&d for polymers or metals or ceramics, quality control of educts and products.
100% agree with everything you said John. I feel the exact same way. My kids know I’ll help them out if they want to go. They can live here for free. I’ll even feed them, pay for the car insurance, etc if they want to go. But I will not pay for college. It’s a waste, unless it’s the doctor, lawyer stuff like you mentioned. Honestly, this world needs more tradesmen. Heck a plumber now days pulls in $100k+ My sister has some bogus BA from who knows where. My parents paid for it. She now works the ticket counter for JetBlue making crap. (Though she does fly for feee) But she did what she was told. Me, I went to work out of HS and never looked back. Self employed small business for over 25 years now and clear well into the six digits every year. A degree in my field would be absolutely useless.
My wife and I had a long talk about this Baby Step when we went through Financial Peace University. We both believe that if our son wants to go to college, he will certainly work his way through a reasonable school. But we did decide to stockpile a "fund" for him when he comes of age. Whether or not that goes to college, trade school, starting a business, or a down payment on his first home will be up to him. It's essentially our best attempt to kickstart his adult life as debt-free as possible, whether he chooses to use it for education or not. While I have several degrees in the STEM field, I do agree that education has become a business, not a necessity. Too many schools are ripping students off. If nothing else, these past few years have shown just how valuable the trades are to this economy.
We went through FPU years ago as we were starting our marriage, and we’ve done basically the same thing. We have a fund, but it’s not going to be enough for them to pay for all of college. we want them to work, earn scholarships, and really earn their education themselves without debt. Both of us graduated debt free without any college funds, and they can too. And what funding we do provide will come with guidance on choosing their career path and how that education will lead to it.
Bravo John, you have the perfect option for parents giving to their children, life lessons and wisdom. The paths that each of us choose to take in life is an individual choice and path, keep on truckin’.
I tried, with all my kids, letting them know college wasn’t the only way to go. My son was the closest to going into a trade. He does at least have a plan so keeping my fingers crossed and praying.
Thank you, Sir. While my wife and I are both college educated in technical fields, your message resonated extremely well. We just pulled our son out of high school due to the massive amount of indoctrination and him losing his way a bit. We hope that schooling him at home will help and are reinforcing many of the ideals you discussed on your video. We, as a society, have to get back to a basic moral foundation and reject those who continue to devolve our society by targeting our children. Thank you for your words, encouragement, and the reaffirmation that at least one other man exists that is thinking the same way and leading his family in a similar fashion.
We're on our 4th year of home schooling. It was so hard in the beginning, but so happy we did. I do think my kids are almost two years ahead of their peers..Good luck!
I have two degrees, Electrical Construction, Heavy Equipment Diesel Technology. After 15 years as a Master Mechanic, went back to school now I'm an Electrician. Zero debt. It boils down to financial discipline and resisting the institution temping young greedy&selfish kids with money. Universities are a scam, a scam which results into a life of indentured servitude.
What made you get out of heavy equipment diesel technology? I have been wanting to go to heavy requirement operating school. Just trying to figure out if it’s worth it
Always love the Warrior stuff. Probably the area I can improve in the most, but I deeply appreciate it whenever we get a Poet centric video and message.
That raises the question: Do you not trust your children to consider, and decide their own paths and values? Had I carried on my parents' paths and values, I would be a very different man than I am today. I might've gone into the trades, and worked for years in a menial job. Or I might have simply enlisted in the Armed Forces. Not undesirable, but also hardly an accomplishment. What I most assuredly would not be, would be an officer and a gentleman by my own social advancement.
@@skeletor5571 then we likely are more aligned than not assuming you agree with anything from John. As a parent, you try to provide structure, values and guidance when your kids are young so that they can make wise choices about their path in life which they alone are responsible for. I’m still at the beginning stage and am looking forward to watching my kids choose their path.
@@skeletor5571 I do not mean this is a jerk response. Bear with me: My answer is NO I do not trust my children. I'm at the beginning-ish stage of things, and right now, I decide the path for my children, train them in Christian virtue. Eventually, the switch has to turn on and they make their path, but right now, while they're in my house, I make their choices.
100% - Got my college degree. There's very little I couldn't have picked up on my own. It's all about the piece of paper that employers seem to care about.
I remember someone back in the early 2000s that wrote a book and said that businesses and companies would start transitioning to skill over paper. That's the smart thing to do and we're starting to see that.
@@WarriorPoetSociety Fucking where? Im almost done with college and businesses near me wont even fucking look at you if you dont have multiple degrees and 5 years in the field.
Yep, getting the paper is just a stamp that says I can follow through and be trained. That trend is changing now because college attendance is higher than ever and diplomas are a dime a dozen resulting in a shortage of skill.
@@WarriorPoetSociety The employers have been through a sea of employees with degrees. Most are gone. Reliable ,competent people are sought now. A degree makes you neither of these. It may,but empirical data shows differently,now.
I love how this channel has so much content about life in general, being a husband, a father, guns, cool gun stuff and really cool guy stuff. Thanks John!
College is what you make it to be. Partying and getting drunk won't get you far. Taking advantage of career day, interview prep, study sessions, things specific to your interest/career, and networking it can be beneficial. Parents needs to raise productive kids. -College dropout making a great salary.
John, I have a father-son camping trip coming up with my sons, 16, and 18. I plan on having this very conversation with them. Thank you for this video. Please don’t let anyone tell you your “rants” are pontification. I appreciate the parental trajectory. From one father to another, please keep fighting the good fight. I appreciate you.
My son was a nuke submariner in the Navy. He literally was home taking it easy for a month before scoring a sweet job as a field technician for a big hvac outfit. He was Navy njrotc and chose to serve his 8 years. The boy know hard work and his job now is a breeze compared to his duties on the Sub.
@@connorbaz5980 woah, man. I'm saying nothing about working on a sub. My full respect to that man's son on that. Can't imagine working underwater for months on end. I was simply making light of the word breeze and hvac systems, which create air movement, commonly known as breezes. Kind of what a dad joke is. Making fun of lame word association. A little up tight there, aren't you?
Good stuff. I currently work for a major southwest university. Even though many people 'on the inside', as it were, like myself are trying to give students a worthwhile experience, I will be the first to tell you the education system as a whole is a massive dumpster fire. Trade school is where it's at, ladies and gentlemen. When me and mine do decide to have kids, I'm looking more and more at homeschooling nowadays.
John, I've respected and admired the tremendous amount of work you do literally since the beginning of your channel. While I was hesitant to watch (this) video, I committed to watching it because there is ALWAYS a / some nugget(s) of knowledge to glean from your videos. Please, with much respect for who you are and all that you do, understand that a person living without religious beliefs is ABSOLUTELY capable of (and often does) espouse precisely the same values as you present on your channel: honor, dignity, respect for others and, most of all, the right to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Respectfully, I fully agree with your positions regarding debt and education. With THREE daughters in college or university, how could I not? Only asking IF IF IF...you would consider that nonreligious persons are also capable of being good citizens with values similar to your own...and to NOT judge others based on shared religious views. Sincerely, veteran of more than a decade of service
Dude I wish I could sit with you and pick your brain because I love when you make these informative videos on life in general and makes me take a completely different perspective and it makes a lot of sense.
John, I really like this video because I was willing to put myself in the poorhouse if necessary for my daughter to get her engineering degree. She was way smarter than me because after a little jump start, she had a handful of small but meaningful scholarships and a part time job. After the first year she never needed our money except a contribution to her car payment. Her fiance, also an engineer now, was taking the same path. They graduated without a penny of debt, got married, and are now a few years later successful and sought after mechanical engineers. From Krav to mountain biking, to primitive camping in the Rockies, to shooting and reloading, to still loving and hanging with their families they have become amazing adults. You trained them in Wisconsin with USCCA and me too for the first day. I'm the fat, old, self taught, mustachioed man that could only hang with you for the first day because of my health. Sorry I drove you crazy with my trigger finger showing a little through the trigger guard but I don't have a young man's flexibility. I was straining to get it higher LOL. As it turns out, I went through a seven hour surgery that fixed me. Unfortunately it sapped three quarters of my physical strength and I just can't seem to get it back. I'd love to have the opportunity to be trained by you again. I promise I'll stay both days now. I see so many kids today get meaningless degrees with massive debt because we told them you have to go to college to be successful. If I may be so bold, the world needs philosophers, but we need philosophers that also contribute whether that is as an electrician, a plumber, a construction worker, or maybe even an engineer. I'm a better man for having met you. I'm a better protector for having trained with you. I'm a far better warrior poet for learning from your media. Thanks John!!
Love the wisdom here. As the holder of a worthless degree (first job out of college was a lifeguard, and it was 9 months after that before I got another job because I was “overqualified” for “normal” work because of said degree, and I lacked experience for jobs that my degree should have been good for), and seeing how the value has depreciated for the generations after me, I approve of this plan. Aces!
John, I really love your philosophical posts on almost all topics. It's very much a part of why was (and still am) an early member of WPS. I agree with most of what you said, but honestly, some things you just got wrong. A college degree was a waste for you because you're an entrepreneur . College educations are good for working for someone else. Yeah, we'd all like to work for ourselves and be the boss, but not everyone has it in them. A finance degree is indeed a technical degree (I have a finance degree). I agree you can learn it all by reading books on your own. The problem is, if you do that you're almost certain NOT to get an interview. So that's a non-starter as well. Lots of downsides to college today and I'm not sure if I were 18-19 I'd go to college today. What matters more is drive and even more so, perseverance. If you want to be an entrepreneur, college is usually a waste of time. Trouble is, most 18-19 YOs may want that, but have no idea WHAT they want to pursue and have no technical basis upon which to do it. Wish I had the answer. I'd be living on a beach earning 20%. As always, great stuff John. So glad we have your voice in the relative wilderness this country has become.
I’m investing $500 for each of my kids every month for college. College was extremely valuable for me as a professional and led me to do research in graduate school. Now I can take care of my family and never need to worry about money (which is a terrible way to live life growing up poor). They have the option to educate themselves. This is freedom.
Yes you did all that after 8 to 10 years of working for free and paying to work for free. 🤣 I can make close to the same money you make without doing that. Obviously if you work for free for a whole decade you should be making more money but it’s not even worth it in the end? You view it as worth it once you no longer have to deal with the hassle and it’s all be behind, but the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze. I’d rather enjoy my free time/health in my life, instead of living above my means and having to work overtime for the rest of my life or 30% of my life. Noty.
Best part is if business fails they can file for bankruptcy unlike college and be debt free after awhile or if they make it and come into hard time they can sell the business and gave some thing to show later.
@@outlawscratch8104 I'm doing computer science with a ba Heloise in cyber security. College is worth it, it's just not for everyone. Don't listen to these fools saying it's pointless
"Hope for the best, plan for the worst." Something my dad has been telling me my entire life. That and "Count your pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves."
Worked in technical field for years. Was always struggling. Got my bachelors in engineering at the age of 32 and im making enough money that my wife doesnt have to work while getting her PhD and raising a child while still having guns. Take what you want out of this but my education was the best investment i ever made.
Yep, STEM degrees typically provide a return on investment; most other degrees put kids in a lifetime financial hole. I’m a university professor, I see it from a unique perspective.
@@tbonilla6922 nah, you just need to read a lot of books and solve a lot of real world problems and make a lot of projects. I feel I didn’t need to go to school for it.
One day, many years down the road, we will still be sharing stories with our children and grandchildren about the wise philosopher of our time: John Lovell
I agree with most of what you say John, but we have some pretty different ideas on this one. While I agree that college certainly is not the fot for every kid, I completely disagree that it's a waste or spoiling them. And I also do not see anyting wrong with prolonging adolesence for a little while longer, as you stated. I will be interested to see how you and your young kids grow and change over the coming years. God Bless
I'm currently going to a university, living on campus and have no idea what I want to study. Despite that, I am improving myself mentally and physically every day, and often find my classes to be a complete and utter waste of time and money. Current plan is to get a degree (Preferably STEM) and then go into the military as an officer and finally get some self-discipline and self-improvement. You have a lot of good points, and I'm quickly realizing how much of a business colleges are nowadays rather than an actual educational institution. We'll see where I am once I graduate, but I'm almost certain it will turn out exactly as you say, just a glorified piece of paper showing that I wasted thousands of dollars . . .
Im not going to lie, John has been right about a lot of things and by God this is one of those times. I totally agree and have thought the same way for a long time. The money that I could have given to the college system, I save it instead to give them a head start/platform to start their adult lives with, with my guidance of course😏.
Even engineering is something you can learn from working under someone. School DOES NOT prepare you to be an engineer (unlike how medical school prepares you to be a doctor, that’s the one exception I can think of).
@@DanielDuhon that's horseshit. I have two degrees in engineering and I absolutely use stuff that I learned in college that I use everyday. Furthermore, you can't become a registered engineer without a bachelor's at minimum and several years of experience.
When I got out of the military I decided to go to college for Homeland Security and Emergency Management. Half way through I realised I'm wasting my GI Bill on something I could learn for free and still get a certificate through different organizations. Plus all of the teachers were only trying to teach their political beliefs and social agenda. I was the only one in the class that had been in "the real world" and saw right through their BS. To me, college is a joke and waste of money. (Except for what John said about technical expertise)
Amen to the part about them shoving down their agenda down your throat. I went to a very liberal school and I wouldn’t exactly call myself a liberal or conservative but the fact is Professors need to promote critical thinking and not just what they believe is right.
exactly i did a bit of school before i joined and realized its such a risky investment in yourself. Plus if your values dont match it makes the situation miserable. Thats why unless youre going to be a docotor or something I feel like trade schools are so much better. They Focus more on the career and only the career skills. no extra bullshit and are much cheaper and sometimes even pay higher than people with degrees in a shorter time. Im about to get out soon and im hoping to get some IT certs if possible with my GI bill.
I was looking into a cross between disaster management and security. The college also falsely advertised the courses which also threw me off of it. But everything they offered just told me to go to FEMA's website, do their free course and submit the cert to them. Basically "You pay me money to give you an additional piece of paper" complete waste of time.
Love the idea man. I’ve had a similar experience with college and similar views throughout the years. I just had my first in 2022, I hope in the future things start to make more sense in making responsible adults
Amen, and Amen. Thank you for striving to put into words the things many of us fellow Warrior Poets have been thinking. The groundswell of changing hearts, and minds (especially in our children) is the best chance we have at changing the trajectory of our country. Keep up the great work. It's obvious you are in your calling.
I have a similar plan with my boys. Instead of a 529, we have their “college funds” in a UTMA account. When they turn 21, whether they want to start a business, go to college for a useful STEM degree, or go to trade school, they will have those options open to them with the money in those accounts. Anything leftover they get to keep, which will incentivize them to pick the most affordable option. Both of my brothers dropped out of college and thus lost access to their 529 accounts. College funds are overrated, but a “business fund” should be the new way of thinking about it!
I went to college on the GI Bill for finance. Army paid for my education and I got it in a good field. This is the only way I'd recommend college to anyone. That being said, I could have learned everything I did through books in a library.
I did not go to college. I decided to teach my self computer programming instead through online free resources. I now work remotely full time as a software engineer making 100k a year and I am 21 years old. College is not always the best option for everyone.
depends on the job. I know of so many people without degrees doing well because they have a trade skill or certs. Being a doctor yes clearly you need a degree.
It's kinda weird, I grew up through public schools and graduated in 2020. They never thought us any other route than college, and it was pounded into our heads, "no college = failure": They also never taught us our constitutional God given rights, how to do taxes, and practical skills (shop, wood working, etc). The classes that did offer somewhat practical skills like "consumer math", had a negative stigma around them. It's like Big Gov wants us to be indentured servants. After I graduated, I felt so bad because I wasn't doing the same route my other peers are doing, I felt like a failure(still kinda do), but I'm so thankful I'm not in debt. If I could go to a trade I would, but with this whole scam going on, I'm not going to forsake God and put a muzzle on my face to enter a building. For the mean time, I work, and I also work for the Lord.
It is amazing how much has changed since I went to college. I will never regret attending college but it is a different circumstance for this generation. So disheartening.
John, I’ve seen your videos here and there for a few years and always enjoyed them. But this video made it clear to me we stand on common ground. You earned my subscription!
I have friends and family in and some have graduated college. They get so mad when they talk about stuff they learned in school, and I have more information about there topics or more. They ask, where did you go to school? I say, I work industrial construction, but, I'm self taught through research at home with youtube and the Internet.
@Chitown Livingston right? What do they think the military or labor job sites are like? Being a young person in the military you’re around other younger people it’s just like college except you’re legally forced to do work, even if it’s something as asinine as “flipping rocks so the don’t get sunburn.” Also labor job sites are full of immature and often college and military rejects. Not all are stand up men. Most are out of shape and undisciplined. Ultimately it is always the individuals choice, it’s your kids choice to choose who they are and what they value or don’t value. They become their own person.
So a kid goes to school as they are becoming an adult and they then find their own values, which may be different from their parents or may not and that is wrong? They can't be independent thinkers, but have to stick with their parents values their whole life?
I messed up and got a bachelors in mechanical engineering. I have learned more about my job from pipe fitters, mechanics, and machinist than I ever did in school. When I come across an “engineering” problem in our plant I take a couple of the old machinist with me to the problem and just turn their ideas into a drawing and project. I almost never come up with ideas.
I fully agree. However - I had to get a college degree when I was in my 40s because I wasn't eligible for advanced positions without it. The degree didn't make me any smarter or better at my job, but it did open doors. Also, my daughter went to a private engineering school. We couldn't afford the full tuition and didn't want to get into the student loan loop, so she joined the Air Force ROTC. She got a great education in aerospace engineering from that small private school and wasn't indoctrinated in the culture of the left. She went on to a very successful career in the Air Force and after retirement she now is highly successful as a private contractor. So, college degrees in general may open some doors and there are specific degree programs that are necessary for certain occupations. But college is certainly not for everyone.
I went to college in my mid 40s. I didn't pay a dime and actually enjoyed it. However, I could see how young people put under certain stress to perform could be eaten alive.
Hey Lovell I graduated from the same college you did in '95. I live 15 minutes away. I got the same dad advice (degree= a ticket to a good job) and the same feeling of waste when it was over. I enjoyed the experience, but it just isn't worth it anymore.
@@RidinDirtyOutdoors When I graduated with my Control Systems Associates, I got hired on a Annhieser Busch making 70k a year with no experience, then left for Boeing making 90k. Depends on the job I guess. Busch was okay with experience but Boeing was absolutely not unless I had a either 2 years of technical or 8 years experience.
Plus learning from an experienced instructor is invaluable, after all John Lovell sell training classes. Guess folks could learn what he teaches in a book.
My college experiences closely align with what John says. A business administration bachelor's degree that didn't actually teach much that was worthwhile. I remember asking my advisor(s) where we would learn about contract writing and just getting a blank look.
4:57 Agreed. Engineering/hard science/medicine provides hard technical skill/knowledge that applies directly to the career fields they're aimed at. There is a very strong return on investment for those degrees. Not so much for the other ones. Vocational educations have a high chance for a good return on investment as well. Elevator repair technicians can make 100k plus a year in some places. As far as values, yeah, that's a tough one.
Education is a gift you give yourself. However, it doesn't have to take place in a "traditional Brick and Mortar building. I used my GI bill to get a Master's. Zero debt... My daughter just finished law school and owes over 500K. I can't imagine living with that hanging over my head..
@@NobleOmnicide it's his daughter why didn't he reach out to her and talk to her about it... She can actually use apart of his GI bill as his daughter.
I’m using my GI Bill for my masters and the total cost will come out to $6,000 which isn’t bad. I paid over $100,000 for my undergraduate degree, however. Man I sure wish I did some things different.
" My daughter just finished law school and owes over 500K" Given that law school is 3 years, what school did she attend that costs $166,666.67 per year?
I have two doctoral degrees so I obviously believe in the value of education. I have one child in college (undecided major) and another in high school. I’m commenting just to point out how difficult it is to actually obtain something of real value educationally that will allow you to have a fulfilling career. My degrees are absolutely required for what I do as I am a licensed physician (among other things) but if you aren’t going the professional route where your education is everything then the chance of wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on a wasted degree is real. You could eliminate more than half of all degrees and most of the professors that teach them and we’d all be better off.
That’s a great idea brother, I hadn’t thought of that. I was just discussing my grievances with academia as of late, but I ended up coming up short with why to avoid college altogether (some of the “pros” you mentioned in your video) Your business pitch plan shoots right down the middle and allows reason to be king. It’s intentional decision making. Love and appreciate you and your efforts. Peace
"Mehler, a history professor at Ferris State University in Big Rapids, Mich., told his students he didn’t want to know anything about them, not even their names, because “you people are just vectors of disease to me.” “I’m old enough to be your grandpa, and you people are vectors of disease to me,” he said. “So when I look at a classroom filled with 50 students, I see 50 selfish kids who don’t [care] whether grandpa lives or dies.” “You have no control over your grade,” he said. “It doesn’t matter how … hard you work.” Later in the video, the professor explained he based his grading system on the Calvinist doctrine of predestination, which posits that God has already assigned people for salvation before birth, so no action they take in life can change that. “None of you … are good enough to earn an A in my class,” Mehler said, adding, “So I randomly assign grades before the first day of class. I don’t want to know [anything] about you. I don’t even want to know your name. I just look at the number and I assign a grade. That is how predestination works. “And don’t come … complaining to me. Take your complaints to God.”" Why would you pay money for this?
John, I will say this, I went to college for engineering and even that felt like there was a gigantic disconnect from the workplace. I am 100% sure that I could have learned how to do my job if they would have allowed me to enter the workplace right out of college.
I went to college to party. Honestly. Successful there. Had $15kish in dept leaving. Learned a ton but not from the classroom. Don’t regret it a bit. Went in knowing fully that it was almost a waste of money
Great video for All Parents, Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles , or Anyone trying to make a difference in lived of our youth - Thank you and God Bless America
A college degree is a great way to distinguish yourself from everybody else. Especially when you are applying for jobs. But college is certainly not for everybody.
Very well said! Both of my kids just graduated from college. I raised them to be critical thinkers, and they were both athletes that got real applicable degrees. They saw through all the BS these professors were trying to instill ,and they had to play the game to get the grades. Pretty sad, but both came out with great jobs they wanted.
I totally agree with your philosophy on this issue. I know several young people whose minds were polluted by liberal professors. And to top that off, they never did anything with their degrees. Young people can make more money by learning a trade. And graduate quicker and getting into the job market. Kudos!
College is for some. It's not for others. I'm very happy in life. I am content to be a truck driver/ warehouse worker. I'm blessed to be able to work 60 to 70( occasionally even more) hours a week. With the Overtime Pay I feel ( for the type of work that I do) I make very good money. I'll never be wealthy, but I am happy with my life. Doesn't mean I am better than someone who I make more money than or less than someone who makes more than me. Be who you want to be. Be happy and remain Patriots!
May parents told me since I was 3 days old that If I wanted to to to collage I would have to pay EVERY DIME. I did decide to go and worked my BUTT off and graduated with an Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering with $0 of debt on graduation day. But boy did I work SO hard to get there. I also have seen SO many people not gain much at all from collage.
Young married couple here. Wife got bachelors’ and masters’ degrees in two different (but related) things, worked through college and only had $12,000 in debt from the first degree. Paid it off while paying for grad school with the support of husband, we have been debt-free since graduation. Husband went the trade route, went from doing oil changes at 19 in a dealership, to being one of the highest paid technicians there. He makes more than she does. We already decided that we won’t be sending our children to college unless they have a valid reason. We are huge fans of Mike Rowe and technical trades, and will be encouraging our children to go that route before anything else.
YESSS!!!! This is my concern for my youngest. She's 16 and wants that college experience. I've been constantly exposing her to what universities have those ungodly, liberal "values", and yet she still eyes Oregon because of their basketball program!!! Lord, help me!
Would I love for my future children to grow up having the same values as I do? Absolutely. Do I understand that they are totally unique people and that I have but mere influence, positive or negative, over who they become? Yes. If my kids one day decide to go to college and become one of the “...5/6 who go off the deep end...”, then that’s their choice. And as long as they’re making their own living without hurting others then they’re doing alright. But if I raise my kids well according to good morals and values, and they finally get a taste of independence, why would I NOT want them to explore and experience? They spent 17, 18, maybe 19 years living dutifully and faithfully under my roof: they’ve earned a little bit of partying. I’m not saying go out and develop alcoholism, but to enjoy college life! That’s a pretty standard milestone in the life of a young adult. And again, as long as they stay out of trouble and learn the boundaries, why would that be a problem? I think your plan for your kids is great. I might even consider that for my own kids in the future. John, I just think the reasoning behind your list of grievances is narrow minded.
Totally agree, mike rowe makes a lot of similar points. My kids will likely never see college or public school for many of those reasons. Thank you for the excellent advice
Another perspective on this: for anyone going into IT/Cyber there is a certification company called ISC2 that has a highly recognized certification called the CISSP. The certification requires 5 years of experience to be considered certified. They do consider a full 4 year degree for that experience but it equates to ONLY 1 year of the required 5. Even industry professionals think college doesn’t teach enough to count as experience.
When I first found this channel, I was expecting gun, and gun stuff. I wasn't expecting to get advice from a father, husband, or the other man to man kind of advice. As a young father of a two year old, Thank you! It's a blessing to have a good person further down the path of life sharing the advice from experience. You bring up a lot of topics I don't see many others taking about. You bring great insight, especially your video on Marriage. I'm only three and a half years married now. I wish I would have seen it sooner. Great teaching! To You, your team, and your family. Thank you for the hard work, and dedication to WPS. God bless you, and the Warrior Poet Society!
Ditto
Warriors and Poets
The awesome thing is I've known him since his Ranger days and he's still the same dude.
@@krisersn3092 your full of it
That's what drew me to his channel. Too many guys like him carry around an ego that is obnoxious. He gives you stuff to think about, is a deep thinker, and talks to you like you're one of the bros.
All my grandkids are getting trades. Never out of work. We need people who can make, mend, build, fix, problem solve, repurpose, sew, grow, and generally trust their own skills than listen and wait for someone else to tell them how or why.
But they had to learn these skills from somewhere right? Nobody has these skills innately. Like my uncle taught me how to operate a tractor. He was teaching me a necessary skill to plant crops. I don’t see the issue with being taught how to do things.
Add engineer to the list
My grandmother taught all of us boys to sew, I thought it was stupid then but I was good at it, fast forward, and that skill has saved me a bunch on my uniforms by mending them myself as well as sewing all my rank and such myself. It's definitely not a stupid skill and I thank my grandmother for putting up with my whining about it.
@@TomahawksNShotShells Same here, we all had to sew our uniforms in boot camp, some of us just looked better, now at the age of 73, I'm grateful of the skills I learned from Dad and Mom.
@@Mezog001 YES!!!
I never went to college and was called a fool and idiot. In fact, I remember one of my uncles telling me "Once you get back to your senses let me know and I'll help you out with paying for it." To this day that is one decision I have not regretted.
Good for you. What do you do now?
I'm one of those that went and it was a terrible waste.
I am now a master plumber building my own business. My degree has turned out to be completely worthless and cost me tens of thousands of dollars. Worst investment ever.
I went straight to tech school after high-school for HVAC, and never turned back. I too will be starting my own business here soon
@@Straight_White_Fatherly_Figure
Awesome bro, good luck!!!
@@elib9002 Thanks! Much luck to you as well ✌
I really like that the poet side of the warrior poet is being stressed. While John is no doubt a warrior, he shines as a poet. Keep shining John.
Enjoyed this post, John. Though my kids are all grown and self-sufficient now, I relate so much to what you expressed. When I was a kid in a blue-collar Texas family, there was no expectation of going to college and no urge to do so. After 4 years of Army Jr. ROTC I enlisted in the Navy. It was while swabbing decks and painting stuff I decided to get commissioned. When one of our officers tried to get me to re-up, I asked for an officer path like LDO, or Bootstrap, some way to get to college and commission. That gentleman told me I could never be an officer because I was from “the wrong social class.” That ticked me off to no end, so I got out and used the GI Bill, graduated college with a BS degree and got a commission in the Air Force, where I served until retirement. I was the first college grad in my family, but my values were set long before I ever went to college. My enlisted time allowed me to experience life and decide WHY I wanted a degree. So many kids are just thrust into college because their parents expect it. Some are ready, but others are not. I saw a lot of well-off kids waste their parents’ money partying instead of studying because they had already done 12 years of school and had no idea why they had to do 4 more. Having watched that, and since my parents had no way to send me to college-which I wouldn’t have been ready for at 18 anyway-I made the decision that I would not create a college fund for my children. I told them as children they had no such fund, that if they wanted to go to college they would either need to earn scholarships or use the GI Bill by serving. I will say I worried for years if I did the right thing, fearing I had disadvantaged them. But I think now I made the right choice. None were ready for college at 18, but all of them eventually went to college after living some life and all of them did it on their own hook. One is a Lt Colonel now, the other a GS-13 and the third a CPA. They all did it on their own. They were never spoiled or “given” it. Most of my peers still create funds for their kids and expect them to go to college. That wasn’t for me. The truth is some kids need to be in trades, some in professions. Their is no dishonor in either as long as they’re performed ethically. If they (kids) want it bad enough they can earn it on their own, but they will have to struggle and fight for it; then they earn it and it is not a gift. It is a hard lesson, but one I’m proud my kids learned. Nobody handed them anything. They earned it all themselves. And as openly Marxist and anti-American as many universities have become, sending 18-year olds to them is like sending them to communist woke indoctrination. Older kids who have worked real jobs and seen real life are less susceptible to Marxist BS at 22 or 25 than at 18. It was a tough call, but not having a college fund for my kids worked out great. It wasn’t easy and they struggled, but they are far stronger for it, good citizens and good people. So, I comprehend your reasons perfectly. As for university political propaganda, the old saying remains true: If you’re not a liberal when you’re young then you have no heart; if you’re still a liberal when you’re old, then you have no brain. A quaint saying, perhaps, but that bone has meat.
The Navy has the strictest social caste system in the world. Its Annapolis or 2nd class. They used to call it "mustang officers". Also, i apparently had no heart and am also teaching my boys to be heartless carnivores. No one has a decade and a half to figure out their shit anymore. Its exponentially harder for me than it was for my dad and i have to forecaet its going to be exponentially harder for my boys.
If you're a conservative as an adult you've got no heart or brain.
@@Subtletext I’m a proud heartless conservative. Fight me.
@@georgefloydsinhellwbreonna5330 No thanks
@@Subtletext
Rather be a wealthy conservative than a poor, stupid, lazy socialist
I saw my friends and sibling do college right out of highschool, funded by parents, and the kids didn't value it enough to do well; it meant nothing to them, they didnt pick a degree that worked for them, and most didn't even finish.
On the other hand, I waited 13 years after highschool, until I had grown up a bit and come to really value hard work and the cost of tuition, and then I picked a very challenging degree, and I paid for it myself. I got a LOT out of college, but only because IT WAS ME who put a lot into college.
That's nice, but I can't say that I don't value my parent's money, I understand that financial load it is, they tend to project what they are paying on what I am making, to show me how much it actually is. I am 17, in high school, and working, while also doing college, and I can say that I am not doing great, which like you said is something that happens a lot in highschool, but it's not because of costs, it's because of the amount of stress from the stupidly large amount of work being put one in one period, and then a normal workload every other period. I get this Post's purpose, but I only slightly disagree.
@@gabrielp1306 what did you disagree about?
@@Gruuvin1 only the part where you say that none of us value our parents money, that it means nothing to us. I agree with the rest of it though
Edit; unless you are specifically referring to friends or something
@@gabrielp1306 re-read. Please don't misstate what I wrote.
@@Gruuvin1 I see it now, I don't know how I could have missed it, it's the first sentence!
But still, when you say "kids", it /seems/ to bring open the statement to everyone who gets part of their college paid by parents, even if that was not the intent. I apologize for my misreading.
I never even considered a college fund...family couldn't believe it. Both my boys joined the traded through local college. Both employed, and no loans...we doing great! Thanks for the videos, awesome job!
HVAC Contractor never looked back
I got my BA and MBA while in the Navy during my shore duty tours. So I worked a full time job during the day and went to school at night. Each degree was achieved in less than 3 years with 3.95 and 3.98 GPAs. Time management was the challenge vs difficulty of content. Tuition assistance helped defray the cost of tuition and the rest was out of pocket. I retired from the Navy after 20 years of service with no College debt, a skilled trade (nuclear electronics technician), and years of leadership and management experience.
That’s my biggest regret from my time in the Navy, I should’ve have devoted more time to schooling outside my profession and outside the Navy.
Thank you for your service!🇺🇸
@@aaronwilson1666 Same here. I enlisted after goofing around for almost 2 years in college with aspirations of finishing my biology degree with G.I. Bill money. But life took me in another direction and I've been in the manufacturing field since '94. Only slight regret...not doing 6 yrs and getting more electronics training that I ended up doing as a civilian.
@@davidhowell7901 HAHA, I was also in college for a Bio degree. but, messed around. Got caught up partying too much and that landed me in jail a couple times. Which led to me enlisting.
As a 19 year old, I went to college, same as all of my friends, and I was even going for engineering. But after my first semester I had a sort of epiphany, and that’s that I just didn’t want to do it. I didn’t like it, I didn’t feel I was gaining anything from it, the course I thought I wanted to take with my life wasn’t what I wanted, so I left. Left behind all my friends and my girlfriend who stayed and went to work at a port. Here I feel I’ve gained more experience after only a few weeks than I have while I was paying to learn, and I couldn’t be happier.
I’m going to enlist later this year in the army (hoping to get into ranger bat with an option 40) and I couldn’t be more excited about it. This video really cemented my choice to follow my heart and mind and take control of my own life. Thank y’all so much for making this content
Hey bud. I'm here watching this video a year later and just wondering how your decision is working out for you?
@@two_legit1832Life has a funny way of making things happen. Not very long after this comment I got into an accident while helping my brother-in-law repair the roof of the warehouse he works out of. Ended up with multiple broken bones, including a caved-in heel, and a brain bleed due to falling ~24 feet.
After 7 surgeries and a year of recovery, I’m left with an arthritic wrist with barely any mobility, a reconstructed heel that ended up damaging the tendons in my foot, and a knee detach the moment I get too close to a powerful magnet.
I’m back in college now, seeking a different degree in a field that I actually enjoy, with the goal of using it to serve my country in a more civilian capacity. So far it’s going much better than it did my last attempt, so I’m holding out hope.
The best part about the path you chose is you can always go back and get that engineering degree. And you won't have to live with the "What if I tried to join the Rangers?" or "What if I had worked at that port?"
When I was college age (many moons ago), college was still the goto path. Even at that time, I recognized that most people were using college as extended highschool. Coming from a homeschool environment, this was never an attraction to me, but I see college now and the indoctrination in ideology that goes along with it, and it makes me question whether it is good to even have it as an option these days.
As for funding of college, my parents had a great strategy which I will likely use: My parents paid for half of my oldest brother's tuition and he worked through college to pay the other half. He turned around and paid half of my tuition, while I worked through college and paid for half. We both exited college appreciating the education and effort to earn it, and being debt free. It also helps a LOT going to a community college for 2 years to get your bearings, determine a direction, and get the electives out of the way before finishing a 4yr degree at a bigger university.
Another thing I believe helps stave off indoctrination is attending a local college and staying at home. All too soon enough, kids are old enough to be on their own but 18, 19, 20 are transition ages. Not quite old enough or wise enough to handle everything on their own, but too old to be sheltered.
As a college student, John hit the nail on the head with this. My colleagues really are rewired to be intelligent, but have terrible values. I honestly wished I went to a community college then commute to a larger university after two years. I have about a year and a half left of this trash and can’t wait to be finished.
Well, I'll admit this comment hit way closer to home than I'd like. Just one more year.
Good for you, stay the course get the piece of paper then go crush it in the working world.
Yea if your that close you might as well finish and get your diploma. I Graduated with a degree in Criminal Justice with a minor in psychology. By the time I finished I knew one thing, I didn’t want to be a cop. Or corrections officer. Almost took a job as a parole officer. Have been working construction since the day I graduated and I enjoy what I do. I have been doing it long enough now I can pick what type of work I want to do. I don’t even put my college degree an my resume now. Not many college gads in my line of work. One guy said he almost didn’t hire me because of I had a degree 😂😂😂😂.
Brother just drop out. Stop throwing good money after bad. A year & a half is a year & a half. Don’t waste it.
Same lol It’s a nightmare, especially if you see the trash it pushes
My daughter is going to a technical college for Occupational Therapy Assistant. She’s 20 y/o and has known that is what she wants to do since she was about 15. She decided on Technical college because she knew she didn’t need to go to a 4 year college just to do her job. She interested in working with Vets so I’m hoping she will get a job with VA. Lord knows the VA could use the help.
My wife did the exact same thing - great choice!
Your daughter is a smart woman. Congratulations for raising such a quality person!
@@nmr6988
Thank you.
The VA in Charleston SC is awesome!
4th generation to not attend college. Instead of throwing money away, my great grandparents bought property to leave to the up and coming generations for our family. Its been nonstop hardwork upkeeping the properties for us but their forethought has set us up for success and i couldnt be more thankful for them paving the road for my parents and now me and now i have something to leave for my son as well. We've acquired more property and still are looking for more. I'm all for education, but the best education I've received has been from my parents and a select group of philosophers like John Lovell, Jordan Peterson, and various other great thinkers of our time. Train hard. Train smart.
My great grandparents property got stolen by my great step grandmother and her lazy kids... That land had been in our family for generations and my grandmother was the only child. She was supposed to get everything according the original will... As my great grandfather was dying he told his 2nd wife and his only child where it was. Then it went missing...
My parents were poor and in their early 20s. They didnt fight it... Their parents(my grandparents) were dying of cancer or had already passed(they didnt live long).. So they chose to fight the cancer instead of fight for the farm... We lost 40+ acres of NC Farm land and 50+ acres of Dairy Farm in Leicester NC... Carefully layout who gets the land and cherish the fact your generational wealth wasnt stolen from you by an old whore...
@@krisersn3092 it’s comical to think that the only way to learn information is to pay communists $10,000 a year to teach you that information. I think you missed the entire point of this speech.
@Tin N Im not bragging. I am eternally grateful for the blessings my Granny and Grandpa bestowed upon my family with their forethought and wisdom. They lived through the depression, my grandpa fought all the way through ww11 and korea, even after all that struggle they still lived for the higher purpose of providing their family with Love and Stability and the teachings of how to follow Jesus. You can enjoy the highest education you want, I guarantee you that it wont provide the happiness and security that my land in Texas and a family full of Love and support for each other will.
@@tysongibson6941 Have you ever taken a class from him
100% correct here. I love that you caveat all of this with medical and engineering professions. I moved to the US, knew I had to do engineering, and engineering only. Did that at a state school, got a job at a top aerospace and defense company, and they paid for my masters in engineering. I’d say college was definitely worth it for me, especially as an immigrant. That’s why there is a higher percentage of immigrants in STEM. We understand the game here and play it to win.
Bump for engineering reference. It's time and money well spent from just about any perspective. As a EE it always shocks me how uncurious most people are about how all of their devices work.
As well as Law and Accountancy, although some might debate about the quality of various programs, they are necessary if only because degrees have become mandated for those careers.
Things to teach a child:-
Let your child learn that they are loved.
That love comes with discipline.
Teach them how to work.
Teach them how to learn.
Teach them values.
Teach them the value of inspiration.
Teach them the value of perspiration.
Teach them that any job, every job is worthy.
Teach them that anyone who holds a job is noble.
Teach them that they are blessed.
Teach them to give more than they take.
Teach them the habit of making the World a better place.
Teach them the practise of helping those they interact with better people.
Teach them the value of family.
Teach them that the most important job in the World is to raise the next generation well.
Teach them by doing, not by telling
I have 3 siblings that went to college. One the school of visual arts 100k in debt, another Wentworth Institute of technology 125k in debt, and another for education degree at state school 65k in debt. I joined the IBEW electrical trade union zero debt. NONE OF THEM WORK IN THE FIELDS THEY ARE IN DEBT FOR!
IBEW 962 here! Never been to college, skilled trades are a spectacular way to make a living. College is not a magic pill! I agree 100%
I used my Engineering degree to get a 4-year apprenticeship as a power station electrician.
Counterpoint: Here are a few examples of high school classmates who attended university:
One's an engineer working at Lockheed. His internships in college paid better over a summer than the average job does in a year. Oh, and he graduated without a cent of debt because he exercised halfway intelligent financial planning.
Another is an officer in the Army, he flies helos for a living with a promising career ahead.
A third studied biochemistry. She's probably the smartest person I know and is doing very well for herself.
As for me, I'm just about to wrap up a civil engineering degree and have swathe of well-paid job offers to choose from.
It takes a certain person to go to college, and succeed. Clearly none of your siblings made the grade.
Intelligence has less to do with it than picking a career field that is useful. STEM in college is useful, and makes it worth going to. Arts, very rarely. There's a difference between a hobby and a career field.
@@skeletor5571 Counterpoints are often like winning Lotto tickets found on the parking lot pavement: they are super nice but you better not count on it happening often.
I went to a Christian college for missions and at first I thought it was great, but later I began to realize that I could have just started with a missionary or pastor instead who could have taught me the same thing or even more without having to spend so much. I could have just gotten the books like John mentioned. I totally agree!
What a scam.
I'm not endorsing her, but Joyce Meyer did not attend college. She says she learned by self study and "Holy Ghost" University.
I jumped right into the workforce after highschool with the only training being from an elective class. 18 years later I'm still a machinist as I was from day one. Unfortunately it's a dying trade, but I love what I do. Plus I make gun parts all day, so yay for that.
I came out of high school and went straight into the Marine Corps, looking back its been the best decision for me. It got me into shape, given me steady income, and I’m going into the first experimental class to combine the welding and machinist jobs. I’ll have the training for 2 trades when I get out of the Corps.
Sounds like a awesome path. Graduated welding school myself and I’m wanting to join the airforce as a machinist/welder. A bit backwards, but it’ll give me confidence and other life essentials that I lack and get me on track.
Absolutely loved this chat. Thanks for sharing so many of your thoughts on the subject.
I'm a chemist and in the high level r&d you can't do without knowing about molecular orbitals and quantum physics. So university it is, and it'll be that way 100 years from now. But we have a shortage of trained lab technicians. Hell, if somebody semi trustworthy from the street came in we'd just teach him how to do shit, and he'd be a contributing member of society in no time. But they don't. Teenagers just don't become a lab technician or plumber these days. Robots won't replace you in the next 50 years in those fields, yet they go into expensive gender studies degrees that were obsolete a year prior to their invention.
If you're in the Palm Beach County ,FL area, I know a few folks that would take you up on your offer. :)
Real talk, I have degrees in chemistry and physics, can you point me to the lab technician jobs?
@I QUIT YT spread out wide during your bachelors, see what's out there. See what she likes, but also what has practical applications. Organic chemistry has maybe 5 cancer drug research positions per year. Industrial polymers, battery ceramics, that's where the money and jobs are at. Forget about university and ask where you can work in your field. If only 3 companies come up, that's not a reliable plan. There are thousands of polymer based materials produced for everything. Material science is applicable in the real world, since you make real industry product.
Except you technically don't need collage to get that anymore. :)
And in collage they are just gonna brain wash you with brain dead nonsense about evolution and atheism.
@@nicknaylor9895 like, what a lab technician does, or how to become one? If you already have a degree you're probably overqulified and disappointed by pay. They are my little minions running the lab. I'm too expensive to clean beakers, so i have them doing it. But they are very skilled with our machines, do experiments if i sign off that they are safe, they are the actual workers. I'm just the brain and management of the laboratory, the Ph.D. for good optics.
And what you do depends on the industry. Medical analysis, food quality control, r&d for polymers or metals or ceramics, quality control of educts and products.
100% agree with everything you said John.
I feel the exact same way. My kids know I’ll help them out if they want to go. They can live here for free. I’ll even feed them, pay for the car insurance, etc if they want to go. But I will not pay for college. It’s a waste, unless it’s the doctor, lawyer stuff like you mentioned. Honestly, this world needs more tradesmen. Heck a plumber now days pulls in $100k+
My sister has some bogus BA from who knows where. My parents paid for it. She now works the ticket counter for JetBlue making crap. (Though she does fly for feee) But she did what she was told. Me, I went to work out of HS and never looked back. Self employed small business for over 25 years now and clear well into the six digits every year. A degree in my field would be absolutely useless.
My wife and I had a long talk about this Baby Step when we went through Financial Peace University. We both believe that if our son wants to go to college, he will certainly work his way through a reasonable school. But we did decide to stockpile a "fund" for him when he comes of age. Whether or not that goes to college, trade school, starting a business, or a down payment on his first home will be up to him. It's essentially our best attempt to kickstart his adult life as debt-free as possible, whether he chooses to use it for education or not.
While I have several degrees in the STEM field, I do agree that education has become a business, not a necessity. Too many schools are ripping students off. If nothing else, these past few years have shown just how valuable the trades are to this economy.
Brilliant. You are awesome.
We went through FPU years ago as we were starting our marriage, and we’ve done basically the same thing. We have a fund, but it’s not going to be enough for them to pay for all of college. we want them to work, earn scholarships, and really earn their education themselves without debt. Both of us graduated debt free without any college funds, and they can too. And what funding we do provide will come with guidance on choosing their career path and how that education will lead to it.
Bravo John, you have the perfect option for parents giving to their children, life lessons and wisdom. The paths that each of us choose to take in life is an individual choice and path, keep on truckin’.
I tried, with all my kids, letting them know college wasn’t the only way to go. My son was the closest to going into a trade. He does at least have a plan so keeping my fingers crossed and praying.
At the end of the day, they will be adults and are responsible for their own decisions. They need to learn from their mistakes.
Thank you, Sir. While my wife and I are both college educated in technical fields, your message resonated extremely well. We just pulled our son out of high school due to the massive amount of indoctrination and him losing his way a bit. We hope that schooling him at home will help and are reinforcing many of the ideals you discussed on your video. We, as a society, have to get back to a basic moral foundation and reject those who continue to devolve our society by targeting our children. Thank you for your words, encouragement, and the reaffirmation that at least one other man exists that is thinking the same way and leading his family in a similar fashion.
We're on our 4th year of home schooling. It was so hard in the beginning, but so happy we did. I do think my kids are almost two years ahead of their peers..Good luck!
Bravo sir! Taking your highschooler out of public and starting homeschooling would be very difficult! Way to live your principles!
No student loan debt and no useless liberal arts degree.
I have two degrees, Electrical Construction, Heavy Equipment Diesel Technology. After 15 years as a Master Mechanic, went back to school now I'm an Electrician. Zero debt. It boils down to financial discipline and resisting the institution temping young greedy&selfish kids with money. Universities are a scam, a scam which results into a life of indentured servitude.
What made you get out of heavy equipment diesel technology? I have been wanting to go to heavy requirement operating school. Just trying to figure out if it’s worth it
@@hurt1704 #1 it was getting hard on my body, #2 I make almost twice as much as an Electrician.
Always love the Warrior stuff. Probably the area I can improve in the most, but I deeply appreciate it whenever we get a Poet centric video and message.
Homeschooling our kids has giving us the opportunity to break the cycle and continue to pour our values into our children. Carry on, Warrior Poets!
That raises the question: Do you not trust your children to consider, and decide their own paths and values?
Had I carried on my parents' paths and values, I would be a very different man than I am today. I might've gone into the trades, and worked for years in a menial job. Or I might have simply enlisted in the Armed Forces. Not undesirable, but also hardly an accomplishment. What I most assuredly would not be, would be an officer and a gentleman by my own social advancement.
@@skeletor5571 do you have children?
@@briansmith6451 Not that it is any of your business, but yes. I do.
@@skeletor5571 then we likely are more aligned than not assuming you agree with anything from John. As a parent, you try to provide structure, values and guidance when your kids are young so that they can make wise choices about their path in life which they alone are responsible for. I’m still at the beginning stage and am looking forward to watching my kids choose their path.
@@skeletor5571 I do not mean this is a jerk response. Bear with me: My answer is NO I do not trust my children. I'm at the beginning-ish stage of things, and right now, I decide the path for my children, train them in Christian virtue. Eventually, the switch has to turn on and they make their path, but right now, while they're in my house, I make their choices.
100% - Got my college degree. There's very little I couldn't have picked up on my own. It's all about the piece of paper that employers seem to care about.
Most employees I know (a lot now) don’t care about that degree anymore. We just want good and competent workers
I remember someone back in the early 2000s that wrote a book and said that businesses and companies would start transitioning to skill over paper. That's the smart thing to do and we're starting to see that.
@@WarriorPoetSociety Fucking where? Im almost done with college and businesses near me wont even fucking look at you if you dont have multiple degrees and 5 years in the field.
Yep, getting the paper is just a stamp that says I can follow through and be trained. That trend is changing now because college attendance is higher than ever and diplomas are a dime a dozen resulting in a shortage of skill.
@@WarriorPoetSociety The employers have been through a sea of employees with degrees. Most are gone.
Reliable ,competent people are sought now.
A degree makes you neither of these. It may,but empirical data shows differently,now.
As someone with a Masters degree, I couldn’t agree with you more. You’re spot on. I feel the same way.
I love how this channel has so much content about life in general, being a husband, a father, guns, cool gun stuff and really cool guy stuff. Thanks John!
College is what you make it to be. Partying and getting drunk won't get you far. Taking advantage of career day, interview prep, study sessions, things specific to your interest/career, and networking it can be beneficial. Parents needs to raise productive kids. -College dropout making a great salary.
John, I have a father-son camping trip coming up with my sons, 16, and 18. I plan on having this very conversation with them. Thank you for this video. Please don’t let anyone tell you your “rants” are pontification. I appreciate the parental trajectory. From one father to another, please keep fighting the good fight. I appreciate you.
The book “Already Gone” came to mind as John was sharing about the kid suddenly going bad. For years they’ve been departing.
amen! glad to see I'm not the only one who read that book.
My son was a nuke submariner in the Navy. He literally was home taking it easy for a month before scoring a sweet job as a field technician for a big hvac outfit. He was Navy njrotc and chose to serve his 8 years. The boy know hard work and his job now is a breeze compared to his duties on the Sub.
Lol, HVAC job is a.... breeze.... 🤣 file that one away in the dad joke section.
@@keanefire786 maybe you should go work on a Nuclear Sub for 8 years and then come back and make light of "dad jokes."
@@connorbaz5980 woah, man. I'm saying nothing about working on a sub. My full respect to that man's son on that. Can't imagine working underwater for months on end. I was simply making light of the word breeze and hvac systems, which create air movement, commonly known as breezes. Kind of what a dad joke is. Making fun of lame word association. A little up tight there, aren't you?
@@connorbaz5980 whooosh
@@hampstershat123 hsooohw
Good stuff. I currently work for a major southwest university. Even though many people 'on the inside', as it were, like myself are trying to give students a worthwhile experience, I will be the first to tell you the education system as a whole is a massive dumpster fire. Trade school is where it's at, ladies and gentlemen. When me and mine do decide to have kids, I'm looking more and more at homeschooling nowadays.
John, I've respected and admired the tremendous amount of work you do literally since the beginning of your channel. While I was hesitant to watch (this) video, I committed to watching it because there is ALWAYS a / some nugget(s) of knowledge to glean from your videos.
Please, with much respect for who you are and all that you do, understand that a person living without religious beliefs is ABSOLUTELY capable of (and often does) espouse precisely the same values as you present on your channel: honor, dignity, respect for others and, most of all, the right to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
Respectfully, I fully agree with your positions regarding debt and education. With THREE daughters in college or university, how could I not?
Only asking IF IF IF...you would consider that nonreligious persons are also capable of being good citizens with values similar to your own...and to NOT judge others based on shared religious views.
Sincerely,
veteran of more than a decade of service
Agreed. Not being religious is not a disqualifying trait for those values.
Dude I wish I could sit with you and pick your brain because I love when you make these informative videos on life in general and makes me take a completely different perspective and it makes a lot of sense.
John, I really like this video because I was willing to put myself in the poorhouse if necessary for my daughter to get her engineering degree. She was way smarter than me because after a little jump start, she had a handful of small but meaningful scholarships and a part time job. After the first year she never needed our money except a contribution to her car payment. Her fiance, also an engineer now, was taking the same path. They graduated without a penny of debt, got married, and are now a few years later successful and sought after mechanical engineers.
From Krav to mountain biking, to primitive camping in the Rockies, to shooting and reloading, to still loving and hanging with their families they have become amazing adults.
You trained them in Wisconsin with USCCA and me too for the first day. I'm the fat, old, self taught, mustachioed man that could only hang with you for the first day because of my health. Sorry I drove you crazy with my trigger finger showing a little through the trigger guard but I don't have a young man's flexibility. I was straining to get it higher LOL. As it turns out, I went through a seven hour surgery that fixed me. Unfortunately it sapped three quarters of my physical strength and I just can't seem to get it back. I'd love to have the opportunity to be trained by you again. I promise I'll stay both days now.
I see so many kids today get meaningless degrees with massive debt because we told them you have to go to college to be successful. If I may be so bold, the world needs philosophers, but we need philosophers that also contribute whether that is as an electrician, a plumber, a construction worker, or maybe even an engineer.
I'm a better man for having met you. I'm a better protector for having trained with you. I'm a far better warrior poet for learning from your media. Thanks John!!
I agree brother. After hearing the statistics of kids loosing their values in college it impacted me to think differently.
Love the wisdom here. As the holder of a worthless degree (first job out of college was a lifeguard, and it was 9 months after that before I got another job because I was “overqualified” for “normal” work because of said degree, and I lacked experience for jobs that my degree should have been good for), and seeing how the value has depreciated for the generations after me, I approve of this plan. Aces!
John, I really love your philosophical posts on almost all topics. It's very much a part of why was (and still am) an early member of WPS. I agree with most of what you said, but honestly, some things you just got wrong. A college degree was a waste for you because you're an entrepreneur . College educations are good for working for someone else. Yeah, we'd all like to work for ourselves and be the boss, but not everyone has it in them. A finance degree is indeed a technical degree (I have a finance degree). I agree you can learn it all by reading books on your own. The problem is, if you do that you're almost certain NOT to get an interview. So that's a non-starter as well. Lots of downsides to college today and I'm not sure if I were 18-19 I'd go to college today. What matters more is drive and even more so, perseverance. If you want to be an entrepreneur, college is usually a waste of time. Trouble is, most 18-19 YOs may want that, but have no idea WHAT they want to pursue and have no technical basis upon which to do it. Wish I had the answer. I'd be living on a beach earning 20%. As always, great stuff John. So glad we have your voice in the relative wilderness this country has become.
i don't have kids yet, but couldn't agree more with all your points. hopefully this message expands to more and more folks. Thanks for sharing!
Just to let you know, I told my kids if they wanted a college degree, they need to figure out how to pay for it without borrowing money. Worked.
I’m investing $500 for each of my kids every month for college.
College was extremely valuable for me as a professional and led me to do research in graduate school. Now I can take care of my family and never need to worry about money (which is a terrible way to live life growing up poor).
They have the option to educate themselves. This is freedom.
Confefe
Yes you did all that after 8 to 10 years of working for free and paying to work for free. 🤣 I can make close to the same money you make without doing that. Obviously if you work for free for a whole decade you should be making more money but it’s not even worth it in the end? You view it as worth it once you no longer have to deal with the hassle and it’s all be behind, but the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze. I’d rather enjoy my free time/health in my life, instead of living above my means and having to work overtime for the rest of my life or 30% of my life. Noty.
@@MobileAura bigly
Best part is if business fails they can file for bankruptcy unlike college and be debt free after awhile or if they make it and come into hard time they can sell the business and gave some thing to show later.
Just what I need to hear as I struggle through my last semester of college with $85k in debt 😊
That's just 10 years of $708 per month not included interest 😕 dam glad I kipped college
What are you studying for?
@@cultleader6977 maybe if you had gone to college you'd have learned how to spell "skipped"!🤣🤣
Just messing with you! College is a joke.
@@bingobongo8101 industrial-organizational psychology but hoping to go to school for physical therapy
@@outlawscratch8104 I'm doing computer science with a ba Heloise in cyber security. College is worth it, it's just not for everyone. Don't listen to these fools saying it's pointless
I too have a degree in Finance from a Big 10 Univerity and I feel exactly the same way. It's not worth the paper it's printed on.
Beautifully said. Fantastic video. Too many people need to sit down and listen to this.
"Hope for the best, plan for the worst." Something my dad has been telling me my entire life. That and "Count your pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves."
Worked in technical field for years. Was always struggling. Got my bachelors in engineering at the age of 32 and im making enough money that my wife doesnt have to work while getting her PhD and raising a child while still having guns. Take what you want out of this but my education was the best investment i ever made.
Engineering is one of those technical fields talked about in this video that requires a college education, along with other fields like medicine.
Yep, STEM degrees typically provide a return on investment; most other degrees put kids in a lifetime financial hole. I’m a university professor, I see it from a unique perspective.
You also probably got a lot more out of your degree than others because you were more mature and it was on your own dime
@@TheBigghunter01 I had my company pay for half of it haha.
@@tbonilla6922 nah, you just need to read a lot of books and solve a lot of real world problems and make a lot of projects. I feel I didn’t need to go to school for it.
One day, many years down the road, we will still be sharing stories with our children and grandchildren about the wise philosopher of our time: John Lovell
I agree with most of what you say John, but we have some pretty different ideas on this one. While I agree that college certainly is not the fot for every kid, I completely disagree that it's a waste or spoiling them. And I also do not see anyting wrong with prolonging adolesence for a little while longer, as you stated. I will be interested to see how you and your young kids grow and change over the coming years. God Bless
I'm currently going to a university, living on campus and have no idea what I want to study. Despite that, I am improving myself mentally and physically every day, and often find my classes to be a complete and utter waste of time and money.
Current plan is to get a degree (Preferably STEM) and then go into the military as an officer and finally get some self-discipline and self-improvement.
You have a lot of good points, and I'm quickly realizing how much of a business colleges are nowadays rather than an actual educational institution. We'll see where I am once I graduate, but I'm almost certain it will turn out exactly as you say, just a glorified piece of paper showing that I wasted thousands of dollars . . .
Im not going to lie, John has been right about a lot of things and by God this is one of those times. I totally agree and have thought the same way for a long time. The money that I could have given to the college system, I save it instead to give them a head start/platform to start their adult lives with, with my guidance of course😏.
Agree, college is unnecessary UNLESS you are planning on becoming an engineer, doctor, etc.
Even engineering is something you can learn from working under someone. School DOES NOT prepare you to be an engineer (unlike how medical school prepares you to be a doctor, that’s the one exception I can think of).
@@DanielDuhon I agree but no one is gonna hire you without an engineering degree.
@@DanielDuhon I disagree. I’m a PhD student in mechanical engineering. You need real training, teaching, and testing
@@DanielDuhon that's horseshit. I have two degrees in engineering and I absolutely use stuff that I learned in college that I use everyday. Furthermore, you can't become a registered engineer without a bachelor's at minimum and several years of experience.
@@swivel63 who said you need to be registered?
When I got out of the military I decided to go to college for Homeland Security and Emergency Management. Half way through I realised I'm wasting my GI Bill on something I could learn for free and still get a certificate through different organizations. Plus all of the teachers were only trying to teach their political beliefs and social agenda. I was the only one in the class that had been in "the real world" and saw right through their BS. To me, college is a joke and waste of money. (Except for what John said about technical expertise)
Amen to the part about them shoving down their agenda down your throat. I went to a very liberal school and I wouldn’t exactly call myself a liberal or conservative but the fact is Professors need to promote critical thinking and not just what they believe is right.
exactly i did a bit of school before i joined and realized its such a risky investment in yourself. Plus if your values dont match it makes the situation miserable. Thats why unless youre going to be a docotor or something I feel like trade schools are so much better. They Focus more on the career and only the career skills. no extra bullshit and are much cheaper and sometimes even pay higher than people with degrees in a shorter time. Im about to get out soon and im hoping to get some IT certs if possible with my GI bill.
Were you trying to get a GS job with DHS?
I was looking into a cross between disaster management and security. The college also falsely advertised the courses which also threw me off of it. But everything they offered just told me to go to FEMA's website, do their free course and submit the cert to them. Basically "You pay me money to give you an additional piece of paper" complete waste of time.
Love the idea man. I’ve had a similar experience with college and similar views throughout the years. I just had my first in 2022, I hope in the future things start to make more sense in making responsible adults
Amen, and Amen. Thank you for striving to put into words the things many of us fellow Warrior Poets have been thinking. The groundswell of changing hearts, and minds (especially in our children) is the best chance we have at changing the trajectory of our country. Keep up the great work. It's obvious you are in your calling.
College was a joke. I learned how to complete a task in full, thats about it
I have a similar plan with my boys. Instead of a 529, we have their “college funds” in a UTMA account. When they turn 21, whether they want to start a business, go to college for a useful STEM degree, or go to trade school, they will have those options open to them with the money in those accounts. Anything leftover they get to keep, which will incentivize them to pick the most affordable option. Both of my brothers dropped out of college and thus lost access to their 529 accounts. College funds are overrated, but a “business fund” should be the new way of thinking about it!
I went to college on the GI Bill for finance. Army paid for my education and I got it in a good field. This is the only way I'd recommend college to anyone. That being said, I could have learned everything I did through books in a library.
Preach, Mr. John Lovell! Heck yes. We love you brother. Keep up the good work my friend!
I did not go to college. I decided to teach my self computer programming instead through online free resources. I now work remotely full time as a software engineer making 100k a year and I am 21 years old. College is not always the best option for everyone.
This is EXACTLY what ive been saying ab college. Almost definetly a scam. Unless its a high end position like a doctor. #WeldLife!
If you want to get anywhere working for a company, a degree is almost always required. If you're going to start a business a degree doesn't mean much.
depends on the job. I know of so many people without degrees doing well because they have a trade skill or certs. Being a doctor yes clearly you need a degree.
It's kinda weird, I grew up through public schools and graduated in 2020. They never thought us any other route than college, and it was pounded into our heads, "no college = failure": They also never taught us our constitutional God given rights, how to do taxes, and practical skills (shop, wood working, etc). The classes that did offer somewhat practical skills like "consumer math", had a negative stigma around them. It's like Big Gov wants us to be indentured servants.
After I graduated, I felt so bad because I wasn't doing the same route my other peers are doing, I felt like a failure(still kinda do), but I'm so thankful I'm not in debt. If I could go to a trade I would, but with this whole scam going on, I'm not going to forsake God and put a muzzle on my face to enter a building. For the mean time, I work, and I also work for the Lord.
Tell that to the employees I have with no degree making $150k - $300k/ year
It is amazing how much has changed since I went to college. I will never regret attending college but it is a different circumstance for this generation. So disheartening.
John, I’ve seen your videos here and there for a few years and always enjoyed them. But this video made it clear to me we stand on common ground. You earned my subscription!
This is one of the best WPS videos I've ever watched. Couldn't agree more with the content of the discussion. Thanks John ✌🙂
I have friends and family in and some have graduated college. They get so mad when they talk about stuff they learned in school, and I have more information about there topics or more. They ask, where did you go to school? I say, I work industrial construction, but, I'm self taught through research at home with youtube and the Internet.
"extending adolescents" 😅 so true!
@Chitown Livingston right? What do they think the military or labor job sites are like? Being a young person in the military you’re around other younger people it’s just like college except you’re legally forced to do work, even if it’s something as asinine as “flipping rocks so the don’t get sunburn.”
Also labor job sites are full of immature and often college and military rejects. Not all are stand up men. Most are out of shape and undisciplined. Ultimately it is always the individuals choice, it’s your kids choice to choose who they are and what they value or don’t value. They become their own person.
So a kid goes to school as they are becoming an adult and they then find their own values, which may be different from their parents or may not and that is wrong? They can't be independent thinkers, but have to stick with their parents values their whole life?
I messed up and got a bachelors in mechanical engineering. I have learned more about my job from pipe fitters, mechanics, and machinist than I ever did in school. When I come across an “engineering” problem in our plant I take a couple of the old machinist with me to the problem and just turn their ideas into a drawing and project. I almost never come up with ideas.
You are
Excellent video. It worked for my parents, myself and my kids. We all turned out pretty darn good. Thanks.
I fully agree. However - I had to get a college degree when I was in my 40s because I wasn't eligible for advanced positions without it. The degree didn't make me any smarter or better at my job, but it did open doors. Also, my daughter went to a private engineering school. We couldn't afford the full tuition and didn't want to get into the student loan loop, so she joined the Air Force ROTC. She got a great education in aerospace engineering from that small private school and wasn't indoctrinated in the culture of the left. She went on to a very successful career in the Air Force and after retirement she now is highly successful as a private contractor. So, college degrees in general may open some doors and there are specific degree programs that are necessary for certain occupations. But college is certainly not for everyone.
I went to college in my mid 40s. I didn't pay a dime and actually enjoyed it. However, I could see how young people put under certain stress to perform could be eaten alive.
What school? I'm looking for good schools for my son.
Hey Lovell I graduated from the same college you did in '95. I live 15 minutes away. I got the same dad advice (degree= a ticket to a good job) and the same feeling of waste when it was over. I enjoyed the experience, but it just isn't worth it anymore.
Degree holder here…..yea it’s just a piece of paper. Alone totally worthless, however paired with experience it opens doors.
So it's not totally worthless then?
@@SPENCER1SHOT alone mostly. You’ll need experience to maximize its benefits
@@RidinDirtyOutdoors When I graduated with my Control Systems Associates, I got hired on a Annhieser Busch making 70k a year with no experience, then left for Boeing making 90k. Depends on the job I guess. Busch was okay with experience but Boeing was absolutely not unless I had a either 2 years of technical or 8 years experience.
Plus learning from an experienced instructor is invaluable, after all John Lovell sell training classes. Guess folks could learn what he teaches in a book.
My college experiences closely align with what John says. A business administration bachelor's degree that didn't actually teach much that was worthwhile. I remember asking my advisor(s) where we would learn about contract writing and just getting a blank look.
One of my precious sons sent this to me, what a great video. Thank you!
4:57 Agreed. Engineering/hard science/medicine provides hard technical skill/knowledge that applies directly to the career fields they're aimed at. There is a very strong return on investment for those degrees. Not so much for the other ones. Vocational educations have a high chance for a good return on investment as well. Elevator repair technicians can make 100k plus a year in some places. As far as values, yeah, that's a tough one.
First here. Thanks for the video 😎💪🏻
I was 19th. I should win something too. Lol
Education is a gift you give yourself. However, it doesn't have to take place in a "traditional Brick and Mortar building. I used my GI bill to get a Master's. Zero debt... My daughter just finished law school and owes over 500K. I can't imagine living with that hanging over my head..
It's unfortunate that she did not reach out to you for advice before taking on $500K of school debt, or that you did not convince her to do otherwise.
@@NobleOmnicide it's his daughter why didn't he reach out to her and talk to her about it... She can actually use apart of his GI bill as his daughter.
@@NobleOmnicide on the upside, being successful in law can definitely help pay off that debt. Especially if she is smart with her money.
I’m using my GI Bill for my masters and the total cost will come out to $6,000 which isn’t bad. I paid over $100,000 for my undergraduate degree, however. Man I sure wish I did some things different.
" My daughter just finished law school and owes over 500K"
Given that law school is 3 years, what school did she attend that costs $166,666.67 per year?
I have two doctoral degrees so I obviously believe in the value of education. I have one child in college (undecided major) and another in high school. I’m commenting just to point out how difficult it is to actually obtain something of real value educationally that will allow you to have a fulfilling career. My degrees are absolutely required for what I do as I am a licensed physician (among other things) but if you aren’t going the professional route where your education is everything then the chance of wasting hundreds of thousands of dollars on a wasted degree is real. You could eliminate more than half of all degrees and most of the professors that teach them and we’d all be better off.
That’s a great idea brother, I hadn’t thought of that. I was just discussing my grievances with academia as of late, but I ended up coming up short with why to avoid college altogether (some of the “pros” you mentioned in your video) Your business pitch plan shoots right down the middle and allows reason to be king. It’s intentional decision making. Love and appreciate you and your efforts. Peace
"Mehler, a history professor at Ferris State University in Big Rapids, Mich., told his students he didn’t want to know anything about them, not even their names, because “you people are just vectors of disease to me.”
“I’m old enough to be your grandpa, and you people are vectors of disease to me,” he said. “So when I look at a classroom filled with 50 students, I see 50 selfish kids who don’t [care] whether grandpa lives or dies.”
“You have no control over your grade,” he said. “It doesn’t matter how … hard you work.”
Later in the video, the professor explained he based his grading system on the Calvinist doctrine of predestination, which posits that God has already assigned people for salvation before birth, so no action they take in life can change that.
“None of you … are good enough to earn an A in my class,” Mehler said, adding, “So I randomly assign grades before the first day of class. I don’t want to know [anything] about you. I don’t even want to know your name. I just look at the number and I assign a grade. That is how predestination works.
“And don’t come … complaining to me. Take your complaints to God.”"
Why would you pay money for this?
It goes to show that unions are trash. Who is willing to bet if this is a true story, he is tenured.
That sounds like a scam to me
A perfect example of why tenure has to be abolished.
@@thegoodguy729 agreed. Those who cannot be removed tend to become tyrants at some level.
Ferris State finally suspended that shithead, a few months before his retirement
What
A fucking joke.
John, I will say this, I went to college for engineering and even that felt like there was a gigantic disconnect from the workplace. I am 100% sure that I could have learned how to do my job if they would have allowed me to enter the workplace right out of college.
I went to college to party. Honestly. Successful there. Had $15kish in dept leaving. Learned a ton but not from the classroom. Don’t regret it a bit. Went in knowing fully that it was almost a waste of money
…you got off decently well with only 15k in debt…. Horror stories out there of $50k, $100k+….crazy stuff.
Great ideas! Passing on to my son for his children. Thanks for ALL you do
Great video for All Parents, Grandparents, Aunts and Uncles , or Anyone trying to make a difference in lived of our youth - Thank you and God Bless America
A college degree is a great way to distinguish yourself from everybody else. Especially when you are applying for jobs. But college is certainly not for everybody.
Very well said! Both of my kids just graduated from college. I raised them to be critical thinkers, and they were both athletes that got real applicable degrees. They saw through all the BS these professors were trying to instill ,and they had to play the game to get the grades. Pretty sad, but both came out with great jobs they wanted.
I totally agree with your philosophy on this issue.
I know several young people whose minds were polluted by liberal professors. And to top that off, they never did anything with their degrees.
Young people can make more money by learning a trade. And graduate quicker and getting into the job market. Kudos!
College is for some. It's not for others. I'm very happy in life. I am content to be a truck driver/ warehouse worker. I'm blessed to be able to work 60 to 70( occasionally even more) hours a week. With the Overtime Pay I feel ( for the type of work that I do) I make very good money. I'll never be wealthy, but I am happy with my life. Doesn't mean I am better than someone who I make more money than or less than someone who makes more than me. Be who you want to be. Be happy and remain Patriots!
May parents told me since I was 3 days old that If I wanted to to to collage I would have to pay EVERY DIME. I did decide to go and worked my BUTT off and graduated with an Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering with $0 of debt on graduation day. But boy did I work SO hard to get there. I also have seen SO many people not gain much at all from collage.
Young married couple here. Wife got bachelors’ and masters’ degrees in two different (but related) things, worked through college and only had $12,000 in debt from the first degree. Paid it off while paying for grad school with the support of husband, we have been debt-free since graduation.
Husband went the trade route, went from doing oil changes at 19 in a dealership, to being one of the highest paid technicians there. He makes more than she does.
We already decided that we won’t be sending our children to college unless they have a valid reason. We are huge fans of Mike Rowe and technical trades, and will be encouraging our children to go that route before anything else.
YESSS!!!! This is my concern for my youngest. She's 16 and wants that college experience. I've been constantly exposing her to what universities have those ungodly, liberal "values", and yet she still eyes Oregon because of their basketball program!!! Lord, help me!
Don’t help finance something you don’t agree with. We all know what the “college experience” is for girls.
College is a joke now.
Would I love for my future children to grow up having the same values as I do? Absolutely. Do I understand that they are totally unique people and that I have but mere influence, positive or negative, over who they become? Yes. If my kids one day decide to go to college and become one of the “...5/6 who go off the deep end...”, then that’s their choice. And as long as they’re making their own living without hurting others then they’re doing alright.
But if I raise my kids well according to good morals and values, and they finally get a taste of independence, why would I NOT want them to explore and experience? They spent 17, 18, maybe 19 years living dutifully and faithfully under my roof: they’ve earned a little bit of partying. I’m not saying go out and develop alcoholism, but to enjoy college life! That’s a pretty standard milestone in the life of a young adult. And again, as long as they stay out of trouble and learn the boundaries, why would that be a problem?
I think your plan for your kids is great. I might even consider that for my own kids in the future. John, I just think the reasoning behind your list of grievances is narrow minded.
Totally agree, mike rowe makes a lot of similar points. My kids will likely never see college or public school for many of those reasons. Thank you for the excellent advice
Another perspective on this: for anyone going into IT/Cyber there is a certification company called ISC2 that has a highly recognized certification called the CISSP. The certification requires 5 years of experience to be considered certified. They do consider a full 4 year degree for that experience but it equates to ONLY 1 year of the required 5. Even industry professionals think college doesn’t teach enough to count as experience.
Thanks for this information.