I was surrounded by trans coworkers at the psych hospital I worked at, and we were told that the reason the people who had transitioned were so angry and upset was only because of social stigma in society. This was the least stigmatizing and most accepting place on earth - a gender clinic in San Francisco that hired more trans people than any other organization on earth. This reason for people doing far worse after surgery and hormones didn’t ring true at all. This was the beginning of my skepticism, and feeling very alone among friends and family who weren’t forced to confront the lies we were all told all day every day. My lived experience still isn’t considered valid, though, and I’m not allowed to talk about it with anyone. So I appreciate these conversations as it makes me remember that I’m not alone.
I think they could solve the bathroom issue. Its already a law in most western countries, that new buildings with public toilets must have an accessible/disabled toilet, as well as male and female toilets. There is already a third category of toilet in most public places. The accessible toilet is usually unisex too. Trans people can use those toilets. They can even change the name to "Universal toilets" or whatever name. Problem solved.
@@MelindaNorth Yes I agree. It feels very similar to being back in Catholic school. Not allowed to even ask questions, not allowed to ever hint at any skepticism. Even a hint of doubt and you’re a heretic. Must show complete faith and respect and never ever let on that you might be experiencing some doubts, or you’re evil.
Absolutely- the unspoken rule is that in order to be a good person you have to "think around" your first order thoughts or your gut -level reactions, and then replace them with something from the official thought orthodoxy. And people are doing it!!
That's because we are all "Labouring" under "False Consciousness", indoctrinated into the "phallocentric heteronormative hegemony". It's every body's duty to "ablate" their "assigned" programming. This "praxis" will allow "Social Justice" to make itself known.
That's also the bedrock process of every major religious faith since time immemorial. Core tenents of Christianity include immaculate conception, resurrection from the dead and a man-god. Your true faith is tested (it is said) by affirming the impossible or absurd: "credo quia absurdum".
It's a demand for power. Having taken a risky self sacrifice of their own dignity, they have risked everything, and you "MUST reassure me!" Otherwise I may be forced to question my own actions and I've staked too much on this to do that.
Trans gets to me on the self-rejection (pretending your prior self didn't exist, rejecting attempts to discuss the past---the abuser's dictum is "don't talk"), the coercion (whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not, you _will_ call me by this pronoun), and the inauthenticity (remaking the body, asking people to suppress their sense of a person's sex.)
It attempts to control other people’s perceptions in a way that does not happen with any other self presentation. In fact other people’s perception seems to be the most important factor.
Az Hakeem on Stella and Sasha's podcast a few days ago (Frauds, Fetishes and Frameworks - an overvalued idea), pointed out how it's wrong to think of this as one thing. He described it as four classes of disorder (I think it's half a dozen aberrant schema) that are using the title "Trans".
Terrific and insightful discussion, thank you. I have a university colleague who says she's never seen an alleged "human rights" movement behave in this way.
The antidote to external approval addiction, is to affirm oneself, by finding true inner love, self esteem, and confidence. When this happens, external validation is great if you get it, but not necessary or required. This is healthy. External approval addiction is not healthy.
I'm writing from Europe. I remember when in the 90s some young women (usually from secular, culturally Christian families) started to convert to islam and adopting a new name and a new identity. They demanded their parents and siblings to use their new name. I was thinking that it was teenage rebellion and that people should not conform. These women usually got married right away and had no intention to get an education or to go to work. The way I see it is that they were actually afraid of transitioning(!) to adulthood and the conversion to islam was a way of presenting power. Yet, within their new community they have no power.
The behaviour of the activists outside the event she went to doesn’t inspire confidence that they would transform into gentle respectful people in a bathroom
nobody ever decide3d they wanted and felt better after a lobotomy. it was always forced and against the womens will, which most lobotomies were performed on.
We don’t need to prove there is increased harassment or assault. We have a right to bodily privacy from males. Thats it. No need to bring in crime stats.
I would feel much more uncomfortable if I walked into a bathroom or locker room with a bunch of yte women cops than I would with 1 trans woman because you clearly don't need to be threatened by cops but me as a Native American white passing lady with dark hair I do feel threatened by cops. Also there is 0 evidence for your claim that any kind of assault has happened by trans people it's mostly straight men and women who are abusing children yte men and women.
it's not just about possible attacks, men being peeping toms and flashing is also a problem, and it's also about dignity and basic need not to want to undress in front of the opposite sex, no matter a person's appearance, an eunuch is still a biological male
I think that a very large number of tr's are in reality individuals with severe personality disorders who benefit psychologically from the benefits that come with the tr identity.
This is a great talk. I guess the conclusion i would go with when referring to whether it makes a difference if a male has had surgery is, you cannot give people certain rights based on their willingness to castrate themselves
Hi, Leslie and guests. Hope all is well. I would like to request a show about the connection between Dorsolateral Prefrontal Cortex and gender transition at teen ages and younger, if I may? Thank you
The discussion about empirical evidence towards the end of this interview implies rights are contingent on the quality of the outcome. If elected politicians got worse after women were allowed to vote, that would not be a reason to end the 'experiment' and stop women from voting. If a man entering a woman-only space is exercising his right, that right would persist regardless of the harms caused to women. If there is no right to harm others, it simply cannot be a right for a man to enter that space regardless of how often that harm happens or how severe it is decided (by whom?) to be. Empiricism is not the right tool for answering moral questions, as it tends towards relativism and cost-benefit analyses.
I think he just means "a man who sincerely buys into gender ideology (thinks he was "born in the wrong body", or whatever the rationalization), as opposed to being motivated by fetishiism, or wanting to peep on naked women". (Whether you believe trans-IDing men like that exist in real life, or that they ALL have sexual motives, it's at least conceptually possible, even if only as a hypothetical, to have a trans-IDing male like that) "Truly identifies as..." is kind of ambiguous. But it's not the same as "truly IS a transwoman", which is what I'd expect a "TRUE trans" believer to say.
He brings up a thought and that is if they have SRS but not any facial surgery or act in a feminine way would that still make women uncomfortable? I have a friend who had the SRS while her insurance would pay for it so the facial surgery was not a priority. I think this is never going to end because women think they are freaked out by male genitalia but it is really more than that once they see a trans woman that has had the SRS but nothing else about them is feminine. That is another court case.
I am not freaked out by male genitalia, but am pissed that these men get off on exposing themselves to women, and I want free speech protections so I can give these men a piece of my mind.
In your description, when you say, "trans identifying men" do you mean men pretending to be trans or just trans women? if its the latter im not sure there can even be a conversation done in good faith lol.
@@theradicalcenter so ur saying trans people arent what they claim to be? I hear an attempt at empathy in this video however you miss the mark. Most of this video centered around very much not-passing "trans people" while you don't really acknowledge those who are sincere and make huge changes in their lives to conform. I get that this is about sex and not really gender but trans women arent showing genitils in bathrooms, kinda like how cis women, i assume, arent regularly showing their genitals.
No, they aren't what they claim to be, unless they claim to be "trans," because trans implies the discrepancy between the physical reality and the target desire. Again, no judgment intended or implied- just speaking plainly.
I don't know what "they" think, because each human is an individual and I can't presume to know their thoughts or assume they're the same despite a shared demographic. "Trans women" are men, by definition. I'm not sure what your point is?
At approx 22:00. I don't think this characterization of trans people as unhappy or angry (paraphrasing) is at all universal among trans ppl. I am trans and out for almost 4 years. I could not be much happier, and have never demanded anythign of anyone in terms of accepting or "affirming" me..
The following is bit long. I sent in lieu of signing up again with a mental health clinic whose services I used five years ago and was looking to return but changed my mind when I realised the intake form demanded i put in pronouns: Dear...., I am writing to inform you of my decision to seek psychological services elsewhere. I hope this explanation of my reasoning will provide constructive feedback for your practice. One of the primary factors behind this decision is your intake form, which makes the inclusion of pronouns mandatory. While I understand the intention of fostering inclusivity, this requirement reflects broader concerns I have with the pervasive influence of critical justice frameworks in many areas of life, including mental health services. Ironically, one of the reasons I sought help was to process my discomfort with the ubiquitousness of critical justice approaches and the subtle authoritarianism they can sometimes foster. Seeing "pronouns required" on your form struck me as emblematic of this. What might have once been a personal choice for self-expression has evolved into a mandatory statement, where omission itself becomes a political act. This shift highlights a dynamic I find troubling: the transformation of inclusive practices into prescriptive obligations. As someone working in the humanities and social sciences, I have had a front-row seat to these rapid social changes. My first visit to your practice came in the wake of being canceled during the 2019 election, an experience that left me a casualty of critical justice ideals taken to an extreme. I sought CBT treatment for the trauma of being attacked by thousands of strangers online and having my name smeared in the legacy media. This deeply distressing experience underscored how critical justice ideals, even when rooted in noble intentions, can be misapplied or weaponized in ways that inflict profound harm. The subtle slips into authoritarianism concern me most. By mandating certain responses, as your form does with pronouns, spaces meant to be inclusive can inadvertently alienate those with differing perspectives. While the intention may be to foster belonging, such approaches can convey an implicit message of enforcement rather than choice, which can feel exclusionary to those who value individual agency. For further context, my discomfort is also rooted in the philosophical differences between critical theory and social liberalism. While critical theory seeks transformative change by challenging systemic power dynamics, social liberalism focuses on individual rights, equality of opportunity, and incremental reform within existing institutions. I align with the latter, which emphasizes fairness through pluralism and mutual respect. The convergence of these frameworks in language and initiatives like diversity, equity, and inclusion can obscure their profound differences, and I believe practices like yours reflect an increasing dominance of critical justice ideals. I respect and value the work you do and the care you provide to your clients. However, I believe inclusivity can be achieved while accommodating a diversity of beliefs and preferences. Making pronoun selection optional, for example, could preserve inclusivity while respecting individual choice, fostering a more universally welcoming environment. Thank you for the support you offer to your clients, and I hope you will consider this feedback as you continue to refine your practice. Sincerely, ezzerdamoose (not my real name0
@theradicalcenter Thank you, not just for the compliment but for the important work you do. I only just sent the letter this evening, and I'll follow up to keep you in the loop should they respond. For reference, I'm writing from the southern shore of Georgian Bay in small town Ontario.
Well I think it was great that you took the time to share your feedback with them. So tempting to just feel the disappointment and then move on- but actually providing thoughtful criticism may be much more effective. I hope they listen.
@theradicalcenter Update! Hi Erik, We would like to thank you for your feedback and acknowledge that our intention was not to force the identification of pronouns, rather to give people a space to add them if they wanted to. We left it as a blank field so some people enter "N/A" or leave blank and it still allows the form to be submitted. That said, we removed the "required" domain. I would like to again thank you for the feedback. With care, xxx That's kind of a big deal. Good for them!
How is it controlling to ask people to use ur name and pronouns? Just be polite ffs. I would like to point out theyt are putting bibles in classrooms. How is that not forced?
Its not polite though, to affirm peoples delusions. It can be rather detrimental actually and that's basically what the problem is for some of us. And it is absolutely controlling to demand people "just do" something that makes them wildly uncomfortable, in order to momentarily please said delusions.
@@misssbump1391 if someone gives you their name and pronouns, you use them. simple politeness. whether someone is deluded or not is not for you to decide and act on. JUST. BE. POLITE. if you cant do that then dont go outside.
I was surrounded by trans coworkers at the psych hospital I worked at, and we were told that the reason the people who had transitioned were so angry and upset was only because of social stigma in society. This was the least stigmatizing and most accepting place on earth - a gender clinic in San Francisco that hired more trans people than any other organization on earth. This reason for people doing far worse after surgery and hormones didn’t ring true at all. This was the beginning of my skepticism, and feeling very alone among friends and family who weren’t forced to confront the lies we were all told all day every day.
My lived experience still isn’t considered valid, though, and I’m not allowed to talk about it with anyone. So I appreciate these conversations as it makes me remember that I’m not alone.
Thank you for sharing this 🙏
@@Bingewatchingmediacontent the trans movement also tries to steal your memory, or in your case, gaslight you for your experience. It is evil.
Thank you for keeping it real 💯
I think they could solve the bathroom issue. Its already a law in most western countries, that new buildings with public toilets must have an accessible/disabled toilet, as well as male and female toilets. There is already a third category of toilet in most public places. The accessible toilet is usually unisex too. Trans people can use those toilets. They can even change the name to "Universal toilets" or whatever name. Problem solved.
@@MelindaNorth Yes I agree. It feels very similar to being back in Catholic school. Not allowed to even ask questions, not allowed to ever hint at any skepticism. Even a hint of doubt and you’re a heretic. Must show complete faith and respect and never ever let on that you might be experiencing some doubts, or you’re evil.
Absolutely- the unspoken rule is that in order to be a good person you have to "think around" your first order thoughts or your gut -level reactions, and then replace them with something from the official thought orthodoxy. And people are doing it!!
That's because we are all "Labouring" under "False Consciousness", indoctrinated into the "phallocentric heteronormative hegemony". It's every body's duty to "ablate" their "assigned" programming.
This "praxis" will allow "Social Justice" to make itself known.
Just like cults do
Have heard this concept being taught in my CBT class in master's program.
💯%! It's all there, isn't it. @@AndyJarman
That's also the bedrock process of every major religious faith since time immemorial. Core tenents of Christianity include immaculate conception, resurrection from the dead and a man-god. Your true faith is tested (it is said) by affirming the impossible or absurd: "credo quia absurdum".
It's a demand for power. Having taken a risky self sacrifice of their own dignity, they have risked everything, and you "MUST reassure me!" Otherwise I may be forced to question my own actions and I've staked too much on this to do that.
Trans gets to me on the self-rejection (pretending your prior self didn't exist, rejecting attempts to discuss the past---the abuser's dictum is "don't talk"), the coercion (whether you agree or not, whether you like it or not, you _will_ call me by this pronoun), and the inauthenticity (remaking the body, asking people to suppress their sense of a person's sex.)
It attempts to control other people’s perceptions in a way that does not happen with any other self presentation. In fact other people’s perception seems to be the most important factor.
Az Hakeem on Stella and Sasha's podcast a few days ago (Frauds, Fetishes and Frameworks - an overvalued idea), pointed out how it's wrong to think of this as one thing.
He described it as four classes of disorder (I think it's half a dozen aberrant schema) that are using the title "Trans".
Terrific and insightful discussion, thank you. I have a university colleague who says she's never seen an alleged "human rights" movement behave in this way.
The antidote to external approval addiction, is to affirm oneself, by finding true inner love, self esteem, and confidence. When this happens, external validation is great if you get it, but not necessary or required. This is healthy. External approval addiction is not healthy.
well yes - growing up is hard to do .... on the other hand we all need some kind of external validation, as social animals, don't we?
Dissociated mental illness needs to be addressed. Vulnerable people are being targeted.
Many people who do that are just THREATENING to decompensate mentally as a leverage to get their way.
I'm writing from Europe. I remember when in the 90s some young women (usually from secular, culturally Christian families) started to convert to islam and adopting a new name and a new identity. They demanded their parents and siblings to use their new name. I was thinking that it was teenage rebellion and that people should not conform. These women usually got married right away and had no intention to get an education or to go to work. The way I see it is that they were actually afraid of transitioning(!) to adulthood and the conversion to islam was a way of presenting power. Yet, within their new community they have no power.
The behaviour of the activists outside the event she went to doesn’t inspire confidence that they would transform into gentle respectful people in a bathroom
31:40 - "To remake the self.........there's a flight from self which does not include an integration of the former-self and the now-self"
I had a wow moment at that. It’s so obvious now she said it!
What a fantastic talk. I'm so glad the library didn't give in and cancel the meeting space.
How many lobotomies were performed before it became abhorrent?
It took decades and many still celebrated positive outcomes
Lobotomies are still performed today, usually as a seizure treatment.
nobody ever decide3d they wanted and felt better after a lobotomy. it was always forced and against the womens will, which most lobotomies were performed on.
We don’t need to prove there is increased harassment or assault. We have a right to bodily privacy from males. Thats it. No need to bring in crime stats.
I would feel much more uncomfortable if I walked into a bathroom or locker room with a bunch of yte women cops than I would with 1 trans woman because you clearly don't need to be threatened by cops but me as a Native American white passing lady with dark hair I do feel threatened by cops. Also there is 0 evidence for your claim that any kind of assault has happened by trans people it's mostly straight men and women who are abusing children yte men and women.
Welcome to another interesting conversation, between Ms. Leslie and Dr. Andrew: Open Therapy Institute 👉 www.opentherapyinstitute.org
Great episode, thanks for making it.
15:53 Very well said.
it's not just about possible attacks, men being peeping toms and flashing is also a problem, and it's also about dignity and basic need not to want to undress in front of the opposite sex, no matter a person's appearance, an eunuch is still a biological male
2+2=5
31:47 Very interesting comparison.
Yea its something I've noticed, the demands for affirmation signal insecurity.
Wonderful conversation, thank you. ❤
Great convo. Thanks
I think that a very large number of tr's are in reality individuals with severe personality disorders who benefit psychologically from the benefits that come with the tr identity.
This is a great talk. I guess the conclusion i would go with when referring to whether it makes a difference if a male has had surgery is, you cannot give people certain rights based on their willingness to castrate themselves
Wow, great interview!
Hi, Leslie and guests. Hope all is well. I would like to request a show about the connection between Dorsolateral Prefrontal Cortex and gender transition at teen ages and younger, if I may?
Thank you
The discussion about empirical evidence towards the end of this interview implies rights are contingent on the quality of the outcome. If elected politicians got worse after women were allowed to vote, that would not be a reason to end the 'experiment' and stop women from voting.
If a man entering a woman-only space is exercising his right, that right would persist regardless of the harms caused to women. If there is no right to harm others, it simply cannot be a right for a man to enter that space regardless of how often that harm happens or how severe it is decided (by whom?) to be.
Empiricism is not the right tool for answering moral questions, as it tends towards relativism and cost-benefit analyses.
"Truly identified as a woman"
???
WTF does that mean?
This guy is thinking there's somehow tru trans I guess?
I think he just means "a man who sincerely buys into gender ideology (thinks he was "born in the wrong body", or whatever the rationalization), as opposed to being motivated by fetishiism, or wanting to peep on naked women". (Whether you believe trans-IDing men like that exist in real life, or that they ALL have sexual motives, it's at least conceptually possible, even if only as a hypothetical, to have a trans-IDing male like that)
"Truly identifies as..." is kind of ambiguous. But it's not the same as "truly IS a transwoman", which is what I'd expect a "TRUE trans" believer to say.
Well spotted. There’s no such thing.
It's like a past life, a born-again Christian
He brings up a thought and that is if they have SRS but not any facial surgery or act in a feminine way would that still make women uncomfortable? I have a friend who had the SRS while her insurance would pay for it so the facial surgery was not a priority. I think this is never going to end because women think they are freaked out by male genitalia but it is really more than that once they see a trans woman that has had the SRS but nothing else about them is feminine. That is another court case.
I am not freaked out by male genitalia, but am pissed that these men get off on exposing themselves to women, and I want free speech protections so I can give these men a piece of my mind.
😊
[KITTY GOES INTO FULL RAGE QUIT MODE 😾]
@NinjaKittyBonks 😄
Deadnamephobia
Treat narcissists accordingly, period.
In your description, when you say, "trans identifying men" do you mean men pretending to be trans or just trans women? if its the latter im not sure there can even be a conversation done in good faith lol.
Trans-identifying men = men, who identify as "trans." This is said without judgement, in plain language.
@@theradicalcenter so ur saying trans people arent what they claim to be? I hear an attempt at empathy in this video however you miss the mark.
Most of this video centered around very much not-passing "trans people" while you don't really acknowledge those who are sincere and make huge changes in their lives to conform.
I get that this is about sex and not really gender but trans women arent showing genitils in bathrooms, kinda like how cis women, i assume, arent regularly showing their genitals.
No, they aren't what they claim to be, unless they claim to be "trans," because trans implies the discrepancy between the physical reality and the target desire. Again, no judgment intended or implied- just speaking plainly.
@@theradicalcenter just say it plainly, trans women arent women. they are men who think they are women. just say it
I don't know what "they" think, because each human is an individual and I can't presume to know their thoughts or assume they're the same despite a shared demographic. "Trans women" are men, by definition. I'm not sure what your point is?
I blame it Joanne Crawford and those wire coat hangers - "Mommy dearest".
🐿
At approx 22:00. I don't think this characterization of trans people as unhappy or angry (paraphrasing) is at all universal among trans ppl. I am trans and out for almost 4 years. I could not be much happier, and have never demanded anythign of anyone in terms of accepting or "affirming" me..
Good point. Any time one tries to make a statement about all ____ people one loses sight of individual differences.
@theradicalcenter 💜
so you never use women's bathroom?
The following is bit long. I sent in lieu of signing up again with a mental health clinic whose services I used five years ago and was looking to return but changed my mind when I realised the intake form demanded i put in pronouns:
Dear....,
I am writing to inform you of my decision to seek psychological services elsewhere. I hope this explanation of my reasoning will provide constructive feedback for your practice.
One of the primary factors behind this decision is your intake form, which makes the inclusion of pronouns mandatory. While I understand the intention of fostering inclusivity, this requirement reflects broader concerns I have with the pervasive influence of critical justice frameworks in many areas of life, including mental health services.
Ironically, one of the reasons I sought help was to process my discomfort with the ubiquitousness of critical justice approaches and the subtle authoritarianism they can sometimes foster. Seeing "pronouns required" on your form struck me as emblematic of this. What might have once been a personal choice for self-expression has evolved into a mandatory statement, where omission itself becomes a political act. This shift highlights a dynamic I find troubling: the transformation of inclusive practices into prescriptive obligations.
As someone working in the humanities and social sciences, I have had a front-row seat to these rapid social changes. My first visit to your practice came in the wake of being canceled during the 2019 election, an experience that left me a casualty of critical justice ideals taken to an extreme. I sought CBT treatment for the trauma of being attacked by thousands of strangers online and having my name smeared in the legacy media. This deeply distressing experience underscored how critical justice ideals, even when rooted in noble intentions, can be misapplied or weaponized in ways that inflict profound harm.
The subtle slips into authoritarianism concern me most. By mandating certain responses, as your form does with pronouns, spaces meant to be inclusive can inadvertently alienate those with differing perspectives. While the intention may be to foster belonging, such approaches can convey an implicit message of enforcement rather than choice, which can feel exclusionary to those who value individual agency.
For further context, my discomfort is also rooted in the philosophical differences between critical theory and social liberalism. While critical theory seeks transformative change by challenging systemic power dynamics, social liberalism focuses on individual rights, equality of opportunity, and incremental reform within existing institutions. I align with the latter, which emphasizes fairness through pluralism and mutual respect. The convergence of these frameworks in language and initiatives like diversity, equity, and inclusion can obscure their profound differences, and I believe practices like yours reflect an increasing dominance of critical justice ideals.
I respect and value the work you do and the care you provide to your clients. However, I believe inclusivity can be achieved while accommodating a diversity of beliefs and preferences. Making pronoun selection optional, for example, could preserve inclusivity while respecting individual choice, fostering a more universally welcoming environment.
Thank you for the support you offer to your clients, and I hope you will consider this feedback as you continue to refine your practice.
Sincerely,
ezzerdamoose (not my real name0
Excellent letter! I hope they took it to heart.
@theradicalcenter Thank you, not just for the compliment but for the important work you do.
I only just sent the letter this evening, and I'll follow up to keep you in the loop should they respond.
For reference, I'm writing from the southern shore of Georgian Bay in small town Ontario.
Well I think it was great that you took the time to share your feedback with them. So tempting to just feel the disappointment and then move on- but actually providing thoughtful criticism may be much more effective. I hope they listen.
@theradicalcenter Update!
Hi Erik,
We would like to thank you for your feedback and acknowledge that our intention was not to force the identification of pronouns, rather to give people a space to add them if they wanted to. We left it as a blank field so some people enter "N/A" or leave blank and it still allows the form to be submitted. That said, we removed the "required" domain. I would like to again thank you for the feedback.
With care, xxx
That's kind of a big deal. Good for them!
How is it controlling to ask people to use ur name and pronouns? Just be polite ffs.
I would like to point out theyt are putting bibles in classrooms. How is that not forced?
Its not polite though, to affirm peoples delusions. It can be rather detrimental actually and that's basically what the problem is for some of us.
And it is absolutely controlling to demand people "just do" something that makes them wildly uncomfortable, in order to momentarily please said delusions.
@@misssbump1391 if someone gives you their name and pronouns, you use them. simple politeness. whether someone is deluded or not is not for you to decide and act on. JUST. BE. POLITE. if you cant do that then dont go outside.
Phallophobia, Androphobia, Misandry
Misogyny
ironic that your user name contains Orwell when you're promoting Orwellian Newspeak