The ILLEGAL Trade That Devastated NHL History
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Can you name an absurd trade that lead to a domino effect? Or perhaps an incident in general that had big consequences?
not really consequences but if i remember correctly drew doughty had a pretty controversial signing with the kings over pay
Hey man congrats on reaching 100K
Carron name is pronounced Car-Ron
its pronounses RON not KAren .. and FU devils and the NHL fu
The lindros trade. Imagine lindros went to the rangers instead of the Flyers? Nordiques might not have moved, Roy never would have been traded to Quebec and the Avs wouldn’t have a multiple cups without a goalie. Rangers with a prime lindros and messier maybe multiple cups?
There is another butterfly you missed in the effect. Stevens helped the Devils with their 1995 Stanley Cup Finals upset sweep of the Detroit Red Wings, showing Detroit their need to get tougher to take the next step, while St. Louis's trade of Shanahan to the Whalers (where he didn't want to play for a team in danger of relocating) made it possible for the Red Wings to make a deal for him the next fall. Also, while the Devil's 1995 championship probably wouldn't have happened without Stevens, the Conn Smythe trophy (finals MVP) went to Claude Lemieux, leading him to demand more money than New Jersey was willing to pay, ultimately resulting in his trade to Colorado. Both Shanahan and Lemieux (former teammates in New Jersey) would play significant roles in the late-90's blood feud between Detroit and Colorado.
New Jersey, Colorado, and Detroit ultimately won eight combined Stanley Cups in nine years (all of 1995-2003, except for 1999), and this trade ultimately affected all of them.
I was actually thinking of how all this effected the devils, red wings, and avalanche and all the cups during that time period. Expertly put. Major point made there.
This comment should be pinned and liked, here have this from me ❤
😂😂😂😂.
And the 4th winningest team during that stretch won the other cup in 1999 (Dallas Stars)
@@TigerWoodsLibidowith the winning goal scored by Hull of course 🙂
And of course, STL gets screwed
I love how it leads up to the binnington pick 🤣
It was so absurd hahaha
In a roundabout way the blues still won something
In my opinion, the 2004-05 lockout brought in a very important change: guaranteed player contracts, no more owners weaseling out of paying players what monies they were guaranteed via their contracts. What a concept! /s
On the flip side, players can severely underperform on contracts and the owners have no way out if it. That is a luxury most of us never get in our jobs.
All contracts in all sports should be 100% guaranteed.
The NFL does not have guaranteed contracts and it’s the biggest league in America. Players should always be motivated to perform. Period. The 04/05 lockout has done irreparable damage to hockey.
@@holymolythejabroni9040 Anything that takes money away from the highest level of management and ownership and distributes it among those doing the actual labor should be done in all fields, at every opportunity.
@@RB-ll8qc Who cares? Fuck 'em.
Alexandre Daigle's rookie contract was also heavily cited as one of the main factors of the '94 lockout.
Yep. Now we've entry-level contracts because Daigle got paid more Yashin and the latter was the better player and kept wanting more
Trade trees are some of the most fascinating rabbit holes to go down. Seeing how sometimes they span decades and how careers change from that is wild.
As a Blues fan, you had me doom spiraling a la the Mike Keenan era trades UNTIL your twist at end (which made me smile)
As a fellow Blues fan, the following should need no explanation: FMK
It sure did, didn't it. From rage to happiness in 1 second.
Bettman is the worst
Totally out of his league and a corrupt and a sellout to American teams.
@@muadhib001Canadian teams don't win the cup because they are managed poorly.
Commissioner or no commissioner, we'd still be in the same boat.
Yeah he does. I can't stand him
ONG
I wish he would get let go now .
Do more of these vids, Rob. Love seeing how things start and how they end up years later!
Man this is just a fantastic and well put together video. Rob just keeps getting better with banger after banger. Thanks for all you do 🎉
Bettman has had a hate boner for the Blues since then. The real problem, as he saw it, was that the Blues were spending all of their expansion booty on players instead of keeping it.
He hated them so much the script made them win the cup 😂
@@CubeInspectorShould have had a few by then to be honest. Just couldn’t manage things very well
Yes, he hates the Blues so much that he tried to screw over multiple PREEXISTING champions (Calgary, Pittsburgh, Dallas) to give St. Louis a statewide brother in KC for a decade.
@@CubeInspector the script? how stupid are you?
Gary Suter's crosscheck to the head of Kariya in '98, giving him his first major concussion, was the hit that did in Kariya as concussions weren't taken as seriously until the Stevens' hit on Lindros in '00. Neither men were the same after their respective hits, but the damage was done before hand on both.
It's awesome that you put this video up. I was in college in Missouri at the time of this drama and would head to St. Louis with my St. Louis friends all the time for games at the old Checkerdome (St. Louis Arena). I remember discussing the Shannahan / Stevens / Draft Pick situation up with my friends who were Blues fans. I recall they were all ticked off about losing Stevens. I kept telling my friends that you can't sign players for compensation when you do not own the compensation that the league requires. I kept being told that I did not understand how stuff worked in hockey. Hahaha. I remember summing up the deal at the time that Brendan Shannahan cost the Blues Stevens and 5 First Round Draft Choices. This was pre Pronger. Glad it all worked out for the Blues some 2+ decades later and they got their cup. Just think about the team they would have had if this compensation structure was not in place. Wow.
And a video of Ron Caron interviews is a must follow up to this one if you can find any. The guy was hilarious. And your comparison of Lou Lamoriello to Tony Soprano is spot on. Just looking at that guy made me nervous.
Ron "the old professor" was my late great uncle 🙏 he saved the blues franchise when he joined the blues and his team never missed the playoffs for one of the longest streak. Oh and he won 6 Stanley cups with the Habs as assistant gm of Sam Pollock.
Are you tellling me that joseph and brind'amour were not good enough comp for Brendan Shanahan? Give a look at Shanhans career at that point.
Great video Rob. I love learning new things about the game I love
Congratulations on 100k!
I’ll add to the butterfly effect here. The Blues got Shanahan. Shanahan starts sleeping with a teammate’s wife. Locker room turns toxic. Shanahan gets shipped to the Whalers. Whalers trade Shanahan to the Red Wings. Red Wings win 3 Cups. Mike Ilitch starts spending on the team like a drunken sailer. Red Wings payroll is also no small part of the lockout push for a salary cap.
Also Red Wings Cups frequently involve beating the Blues in the playoffs.
Yzerman from just over the red line to beat Casey in 96 still freaking hurts. Here's another kick in the balls. When he turned the puck over to Yzerman, that was the last time Wayne Gretzky touched a puck while wearing a Blues sweater.
@@bryanmulligan5319 And that very next round was the Lemieux hit on Draper. Crazy to think two pretty iconic moments happened in that one playoff.
Just to let you know, Washington didn't draft Jason Allison with one of the picks they received from St Louis in 1993 as they drafted him with their own pick. They used the St Louis pick to draft Brendan Witt. So was it worth trading Stevens for five 1st round picks when two of the picks ended up being Sergei Gonchar and Brendan Witt? Some fans would say yes. But it's debatable
Well Gonchar had a good career but it wasn't really Washington's choice was it?
Nj recieved a stl first round and the ability to switch a pick with stl. They did this in 2003 and the. Traded up to select zach parise...
I remember when that whole Scott Steven fiasco was going down. It made him the fourth member of the "millionaire's club", along with Gretzky, Lemieux and Yzerman.
Bobby Orr? Bobby Hull?
@@drew651 - I should have clarified that it wasn't the FIRST players to make a million, but the only active ones at the time (in the 80s).
Bobby Orr signed the first defenceman with a million dollar contract, but it wasn't per season.
Bobby Hull's was complicated because of the WHA competition with the NHL, he smartly played the leagues off one another but I do believe he was the first to make a million a year..
@@MrJayehawk his deal was for ten years at $1.75 million with the Jets. In 1977-78, he reworked the deal wo make $1 million a year (which his wife ended up taking most of). That same year, Bernie Parent was signed for the same in Philadelphia.
@@jimdraven2432 - correct - I had completely forgotten about Parent.
Thank you for making this video. Blues fans waited a long time for this vindication
Shanahan would never have slept with and stole Craig Janneys wife either. Lol
Shanahan is a loser then. what a lazy ass as MLSE PRESIDENT & as a lazy player for a so-called elite power forward. Never like Shanahan, not in any capacity.
Who stole Craig Janney's wife?
@@sergeontheloose Shanahan did.
@@rona6063 ahahaha, oops. Scoring on and off the ice.
He was also the worse or best, depending how you look at it, Cheapshot artist in the game, we call it, lining guys up, you see a play developing where a player has his head down or in an awkward position and you deck him. Career ending possibilities, he didn't care.
3 cups
@@pmaigotthat7211exactly. And only one suspension in his career for high sticking speaks volumes for the league’s view on his clean hits
And people still stick with that "nobody knew it was bad to get knocked unconscious and taken off in a stretcher back then."
Congrat on the 100k sub 🎉🎉🎉
It’s pretty funny how the owners tried to blame the players for demanding too much money when it was their fault for splurging on offer sheets.
Whoa awesome vid, Scott Steven's is one of my favorite players ever, I didn't start watching Hockey till 95, I knew Steven's was drafter by the caps but I never knew about this whole St.Louis Blues drama 😂 amazing !
man this channel pumps out quality vid after quality vid.
In 1989-90, The Capitals made it to The Eastern Conference Finals where they were swept by The Bruins. It was the most successful season in Caps history up to that point.
At the Capitals team party celebrating the season, 4 players were accused of sexually assaulting a 17 year old girl in a limo. The accused were Geoff Courtnall, Neil Sheehy, Dino Ciccarelli and Scott Stevens. It was awful publicity.
Dino and Courtnall were the top two scorers on the 1989-90 Capitals and Stevens was one of the top D-men in The NHL. Dino, Courtnall, and Stevens were the core of the team.
The case eventually fell apart but a DC Police spokesman said that police "had sufficient grounds to believe a criminal offence did occur" in the limo.
Courtnall was traded in the 1990 offseason. Sheehy played 2 games in the 1991 playoffs and was out of DC after that. Dino was traded 2 years later.
Scott Stevens being given that offer sheet made The Capitals decision easy. There was the money factor, but also the PR factor.
The main reason Dino was still with The Capitals the next season was that he went on an apology tour.
Amazing video. I knew all of these details, but to see them laid out over decades is absurd.
My all time favorite hockey player. Got me into the game!
As a Bruins fan I always wonder what couldve been if we had drafted Stevens instead of Kluzak. 20+ years of Stevens and Bourque at the blueline ...
Tried to explain to a coworker of mine whose a blackhawks fan why they shouldnt have been eligble to get bedard, using this as an example cuz my blues got fleeced. Contract tampering bad, covering up SA perfectly fine.
Great stuff! Keep it going!
Lol.. this was a pretty cool take on the situation! Thanks for the upload!
You left out the original wrinkle in Stevens exit from Washington. A woman brought up a sexual assault case against four Capitals players, saying she was assaulted in a limo at a post season party celebrating the teams first trip to the conference finals. I believe the players were Stevens, Neil Sheehy, Geof Courtnall and Dino Cicarelli. Stevens felt a change of scenery might be for the best and the Capitals were inclined to agree to lessen some of the politcal fallout.
jimread412 Check the video at 3:56. Scott Stevens was a free agent and the blues gave Stevens that offer sheet before the limo incident. Stevens was definitely there but the report was he was outside the limo. That sounds like he was acting as a lookout. The police did investigate the 17 year old females accusation but did not bring any charges against any of the players.
This is an important point. Within 2 years, all four of those guys - 3 of them stars, 2 Hall of Famers - were gone, and Washington got pennies on the dollar for them. That talent drain after 1990 led to lean years in DC. 1998 was just blind luck.
But the alternate timeline led to Ted Leonsis dumping everything he could in 2004 because he believed the lockout was coming when a lot of other teams didn't. Washington wins the lottery, Ovechkin gets drafted, and here we are 852 goals and Stanley Cup later.
Everytime I watch your videos it reminds me that I need to find my old hockey cards because I remember having a young gun John Tavares card
In similar fashion Jose Theodores contract with the Habs was a big reason for the 04 strike. He won the Vesna but hadn't really played a lot but he got a big contract because he's French. However, numerous other goalies with similar experience and numbers like Nabokov, Kari, Lettonen?, + others held out and went to arbitration and they were all essentially gifted Theodore's French speaking bonus.
Great video Rob
Great video dude!
Lolkey one of the least talked about draft whiffs of all time. The Flyers were split on drafting Stevens and went nepotism over scouting.
Scott Stevens basically fostered the worst style of hockey in NHL history that nearly broke the league. Running the trap and then basically knocking anyone that came across the middle head's off, making everyone play dump and chase in the corners, where Brodeur would fetch the puck, so just dump and chase with no possession and not shots, and no scoring.....
What is the name of the song used at the end?
Is that the James Bond theme song on the toy xylophone in the background !? PLEASE post the link ! That is awesome !!!
No one ever talks about how New Jersey was supposedly going to be moved leading up to their 1995 cup.
And thankfully never will have to again
This explains so much about why my Blues are the way they are.
Pre cap era teams were crazy I'm glad I was old enough to see it
I remember this whole debacle when it happened and it very much reminds me what is happening with the current day LTIR loopholes that Tampa started then Toronto and now Vegas.
I wouldn't be shocked one bit to see another lockout and one of the big issues being LTIR. Can it be fixed? Sure, very easily. Either implement a salary cap for the playoffs, set restrictions on availability for the playoffs or find another solution. LTIR shouldn't be used as free cap space.
I took a shot every time you said "Scott Stevens" and now I have alcohol poisoning
Breaking News "TH-camr says the name of the player the video is about" 👀
Never gonna say no to a trade tree my man!
I still think the biggest catalyst for increased salaries was when the Ranger's raised Mark Messier's annual salary to $6 million a year. This made him the second highest player in the league, second only to Gretzky. You have to remember at this point Messier was in his mid thirties so he was well passed his prime. In the years that immediately follow you really start seeing salaries sky rocket in response. It was only right after all for players like Mario Lemieux and Joe Sakic to be compensated accordingly.
isnt it crazy that Kariya & Stevens won an olympic gold medal together. they were part of what is arguably the most powerful hocey roster in sports history.
This is like an infomercial:
"But wait, there's more!"
PETR NEDVED signing from VANCOUVER by the BLUES was also involved in this situation between the DEVILS & BLUES & the NHL HEAD OFFICE.
Great video!
sorry, is that the N64 Golden Eye music?!
slick.
Stevens was 26 when he signed the contract with STL. Also Brian Leetch, definitely not older than Scott Stevens. Stevens was drafted 3 years BEFORE Leetch.
NJ Devils Scott Stevens was a menace
EDIT: THAT N64 GOLDEN EYE THEME 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Hi rob. Hope you had a good weekend.
Thanks bud, you too!
Too bad Steve Dangle isn't doing trade trees anymore because this one is fascinating (unless he already did this one during his time with Sportsnet).
I think he did, I definitely remember him doing one on how Binnington became a Blue so it had to include Stevens.
Stevens was the Master of Cheap Shots.
And he rarely fought after he left St. Louis. He had all of about 5 fighting majors in New Jersey.
Great video! Scott Stevens might be my favourite player of all time.
Shanahan ending up in Detroit and winning a bunch of cups is the happy ending to that trade mess.
If NJ does not get Stevens...
NJ would have moved to Nashville long before expansion.
Lindros and Kariya both had concussion problems before meeting Scott Stevens's shoulder at the blue line. Especially Lindros who used to always skate with his head down.
Ron Caron played an integral part in building a Stanley Cup winner. The 1989 Calgary Flames.
The offer sheets were broken back then….
Adam Graves went to NYR where he scored 50.
Oilers weren’t allowed to match and didn’t even get the picks for him just some guy NYR offered for him…..
Ron Caron was basically hockey's Ted Stepien, and ultimately the rule changes they both forced allowed their former teams to finally win their first championships only a couple years apart.
That's "Ron kuh-RON." I first started watching hockey as a Blues fan in the 1990-1991 season. It was a good year to enter and learn early that almost nothing in the NHL makes any sense and never will. Couldn't have cared less about keeping a dirty player like Stevens, but I will never forgive Mike Keenan for driving Shanahan and Hull out of town.
Edit: ah, sorry, by the end you learned how Caron's name is pronounced. Better late than never I guess lol.
This is an amazing story
Rob, video idea, maybe can you mention a topic about how the Wild pulled their goalie in overtime yesterday to win the game?
i need an aspirin after finding out that the Blues trading for Stevens TECHNICALLY lead up to them drafting Binnington
7:10 - Scott Stevens was born in 1964, Brian Leetch 1968...
Dang, you should do trade trees now!
I like seeing the old theScore channel the back round. Use to nail my girl with it on lol she was a big one but great lay. Hope ur all doin well bud
Wow, a trade sequence in which both teams end up winning a cup decades apart. Kinda crazy
5 First round picks is bad enough but they would get 5 CONSECUTIVE 1st rounders, that's a tough hit for any team in any sport.
This video can also be tied into the Gretzky trade tree. Ironically tied the Blues in, in multiple ways. So between Steven and Gretzky gaming and losing got STL a cup.
Scott Stevens is one of the most feared body checkers of all time. Chris Pronger is the ONLY defensemen to win a Hart Trophy NOT named Bobby Orr. And on that note; Paul Kariya was the Dick, The Ball & The Nut Sac, YES Kid's he was that special of a player. 2002 Olympic's Kariya was his best hockey. My man had an underrated competitive fire (think Leon in today's NHL) but when Paul Kariya dialled it up to 11, you were Federally Fucked.
That’s the blues only cup? I would have thought they got at least one back in the day when they were good
And don't forget another butterfly out of this: Edmonton sent Pronger to Anaheim, where he won the Cup.
My New Jersey Devils won 3 Stanley Cups and that makes me so happy. All while I was in flyers country and side note lindros, clean hit, deserved it. 👏 👏 woooooo
Ron Caron had nothing to do with signing Shannahan He was against it. It was Jack Quinn who made this disastrous deal
I’m reasonably certain the Blues pick they forfeited to the Devils was the one they used to take Martin Brodeur. Assuming that’s the case - megaOUCH 😬
bro hit 100k!
Blues fan here- the Stevens acquisition and Shanahan acquisition set this team back so bad lol.
Ones for sure nobody want to play against him and 3 stanley cups what more can you say a fearless and feared defender
Blues gave away all those first rounders to WAS, lost Stevens and a pick because Caron’s a drunk
Unfuckingbelievable. This has to be the biggest "what if" in NHL history.
We call him the professor here in saint louis
You lost me at the word "trade."
He was awarded as compensation for the Blues signing RFA Brendan Shanahan. That's not the same thing.
You are correct. But it was a court mandated exchange of players. We’re splitting hairs at that point
@@RobTalksHockey Wrong. No splitting hairs whatsoever. Facts are facts.
The Blues pulled this same thing with the Canucks with Petr Nedved
In retaliation for the Blues getting fleeced on that Ronning/Courtnall trade.
Long live the Whale!
This was fantastic.
I'll bet any amount of money that the NJ Devils fans are more happy with those 3 cups than the Blues fans are with our 1 😅
Stevens is definitely the dirtiest hitter in NHL history, if you forget Ulf Samuelsson exists.
How is this the first time I’m hearing about this madness!!
its Ron CA --RON
Wasn't a trade, it was compensation for the Devil's losing a player. So it wasn't an illegal trade either.
They initiated an illegal offer sheet, given they did not have the required draft picks, which forced the situation to go into a mandated trade. The Blues also broke the rules and illegally negotiated with these players
BS.
The fact that law schools use this case as reference for cases is insane to me.
When you read only rob's videos titles, it seems the NHL is a constant dumpster fire which 10 lockouts and 100 trades happening at the same time
You finally pronounced his name right at 8:27.