Brawl’s Hidden Low Tier, How Bad Did it Get?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2024
- Is Ivysaur Brawl's True Worst Character? Here's how bad Ivysaur is in Super Smash Bros Brawl, and how they were fixed in Super Smash Bros Ultimate.
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PM did Ivysaur a favour by making it hype as hell, at least in my opinion. Sniping people with Solar Beam is so much fun and I wished it was incorporated into official games in some way
pm ivysaur is one of my fave chars from any game. they did it soooo well adapting to a combo style
@@empresscarrie6230 PM/P+ has the potential to be the best competitive Smash game, but Nintendo would never allow it. It's literally what Brawl should have been; competitively viable while still providing enough content that casual players can enjoy.
He can do it in Pokemon unite! I spent a lot of time solarbeam sniping in the early days, so fun
Funny thing is that Ivysaur is absolutely broken in Single Player and currently involved in every non- Storymode Speedrun World Record and maybe is even better then Meta Knight as a whole.
Single Player Stat Changes are crazy
You wanna know what the funnier thing is? It’s that in Subspace, the stamina mechanic is nonexistent like THEY KNEW! THEY KNEW EXACTLY HOW BAD IT WAS
@@susiehaltmann3342 That is true. In Single Player the Tripping Chance is also cut in half, they knew exactly what they were doing.
@@Bisalina5 bruhhhh. If you have to edit or remove gameplay mechanics so that its more playable, then maybe you should uhh idk…
NOT HAVE THEM IN THE GAME ANYWAY
Yknow hearing it described, the type effectiveness thing could *potentially* be a cute easter egg mechanic if it were only in effect vs *other Pokemon Trainers*
Charizard having a sword would be awesome.
So true
Swordfighters in Smash: 🥱
Characters who don't usually have a sword as part of their moveset (ie Sonic): 🤩
@@justyumi4410🙄
About squirtle being the only water damage in Brawl; i think i need to remind you of Mario's FLUDD and this little guy called Blue Pikmin, who actually dealt water damage
I think the funny part is that Ivysaur went from the worst Pokémon in Brawl to far and away the best of the three in Ultimate
I’d like to see your thoughts on Smash 4 Zard and his transition to Ultimate
I like how dumb of a mechanic type effectiveness actually is. It basically boils down to the turtle being resistant to a bunch of stuff and having no real weakness and the funny plantdude being weak to everything and having basically no real effective matchup.
Because game balance, lmao.
Ive always thought of ivysaur as the anti air character. He has a lot of moves that attack above him and its sick. Like him a lot more in ultimate
You wanna know whats funny? In subspace the stamina mechanic is completely non-existent like THEY KNEW! THEY KNEW HOW BAD THIS WAS!
Also ironic that simply removing the stamina mechanic in ultimate made pokemon trainer a top tier. And ivysaur is finally good
Crazy he moved 6 spots up yet is A+ and not like F tier
What
The Type Triangle was probably the worst fighting game mechanic introduced. In Brawl, the only characters who can maybe hit Charizard's weakness to Water is Squirtle and Olimar's blue Pikmin, uncertain if Mario's FLUDD counts since it's just a shoving move (also in the Pokemon games, Charizard's also weak to Rock and Electric, glad they didn't go that far). Squirtle's weak to Grass... pretty sure Ivysaur's the only real plant-based fighter, even Olimar's Pikmin have other elements like Fire and Electric. Thankfully they didn't keep the shared weakness to Electric as well.
Ivysaur, makes you realize everyone's using fire-based attacks, even just in general video game media. Snake's using firepower to blow people up, Mario's got fire attacks, Luigi got fire, Bowser probably, Samus, Link just has tiny bombs, ROB has thrusters, Game and Watch has a torch, Kirby Hammer Flip, Dedede's version... Really makes you wonder in hindsight, but at least they didn't go hardcore on Pokemon match ups or anything like Fire Emblem's triangle (well, the sword fighters are weak to spears but strong to axes, don't think anyone was using those in Brawl)
100% Agree
Now imagine if Piranha Plant was in Brawl.
Every time I see footage of Brawl (especially in HD), I'm surprised by how good it looks. I know it is a minority opinion, but I actually preferred Brawl's 'grittier', more detailed art style, particularly the character models. I also prefer its more realistic looking particle effects to the more cartoony and cel-shaded (Wind Waker-esque) effects of Ultimate.
imagine brawl zard with flare blitz. also did you know in ultimate ivys entire down air spikes.
They added a pretty significant sour spot through patches at least
@@ellachino4799Its still too big imho. 💀
A funny thing about Pokemon Trainer is that he can cause disk errors when he changes pokemon.
Thank you for using P4 music in the video. Makes it a lot easier to put in the background and listen to how a brawl character works. Came from the Captain Falcon
Ahh, I remember "Metaknight the game."
I like how in Smash Ultimate, they put a very lightened version of stamina on every character in staling, got rid of stamina and type effectiveness giving you no reason to need to switch pokemon and not only is pokemon trainer now top 6 globally but most competitive players use all 3 mon to their advantage
What does top 6 globally mean? I hope you don't mean tier lists because I haven't seen a person put PT that high in almost 4 years lol
Moves going stale has been a thing since at least melee.
@user-sm8us5yt9h it's been in 64 but became more noticeable in melee and especially brawl
@@user-sm8us5yt9h Pfp (Profile picture) and / or Banner Sauce (Source [Artist])? 🗿
@@Mysticshosh42it is absolutely more noticeable in 64. There are 4 moves in the stale move queue in 64 so if you miss a kill window with a move you are kinda screwed. Or something like samus dash attack can knock down but if you try to tech chase with a second dash attack it wont knock down again cuz of massive staling in 64.
Other games have 10 moves in the stale move queue
I remember playing exclusively ivysaur as a kid because I didn’t like how squirtle or charizard looked. Idk how good I really was but I remember winning one 10-stock match against my 13 year old neighbor who ended the game as he was falling to his death claiming that the match was invalid. I’m still chasing that high #sigmagaming
"Imagine charzard had a sword" *Stares at Pyra in ultimate* 2:16
“pokemon trainer is a blessing and a curse” - arceus, maybe?
Video flew under the radar. Guess youtube wasn't kind with the algorithm. (even though it deserves more exposure)
Good to see more nuance and all the other improvements you made since the last brawl low tier video 👍
Stamina should have just been time-based if it was to be used at all.
the matpatify actually had a really accurate thumbnail putting I KILLED THEM???!!! at the top
IVYSAUR!!! Boy I always wished Ivy was better but at least that happened in Smash Ultimate
Serious question, if Shiek/Zelda are have different spots on the tier list, why don’t the three Pokemon?
Stamina means that if you aren't switching Pokemon, you're going to lose.
@@scorchthetorchic9457 I understand the whole stamina gimmick, but as someone who’s not big into the scene, showing where the three Pokemon are at a glance is incredibly helpful information
Looking back, Brawl was under appreciated. Was it kinda boring? yeah. Was tripping beyond dumb? yes
But at least it had a neutral, you could punish things, and other then tripping and meta knight, was very honest earned neutral
the music around 6min is wonderful
In case you're wondering, it sounds like it's from Persona 5. I haven't played so I'm not sure but I'd look there if you're curious
@@MystDawgIt is, it's Tokyo Daylight, the main overworld music when in the city
It really does reflect in how Water and Fire are very good types, but then Grass is actually one of the worst types, despite also being in the starter trio.
And doubled down of how specifically in Gen 1, Poison is a very, very bad type to have on a Pokemon.
You making me want to do another Pokemon Video lol. I think about that stuff all the time
Actually, Grass is quite a good type. Incredible offensive variety, moves like Sleep Powder and Spore, a pretty good defensive profile by resisting water, ground and itself, the ground resist in particular being incredible. Despite Grass/Poison being mediocre, Venusaur is the consistently the best of the Gen 1 starters competitively. There's almost always a great Grass type in each generation too
If there is anything I can give Grass for, Sleep is a very good status, and Grass has a lot of good sleep inducing moves that it's also immune to.
Iirc ultimate also granted the ability to swap mid air
Going from the worst of Pokémon Trainer's Pokémon to the best in Ultimate
Where would Brawl PT be on the tier list WITHOUT stamina?
6:11 According to my calculations meta knight has the same air speed
Meta knight has 5 mid air jumps, 2 glides and tornado to compensate for that
@@honathan2135 But their laggy and VERY punishable. Except for the mid air jumps,mid air jumps don’t not effect speed so tell me why am wrong.
@@djcreeperboy5062 do you even play brawl? Glide and tornado are not punishable if done right. Mid air jumps and massive disjoints more than make up for it. Unlike ivusaur who has nothing
@@honathan2135 yes I have played brawl you need to attack to cancel the glide.And how about King De de he’s is good. Ivysaur has his forward air it’s not such a big deal to play against a meta knight player use so just Jigglypuff for airspeed to try to camp meta knight Jigglypuff has the one of the air speeds in the game.
@@djcreeperboy5062 mate I don't know why you're talking about jigglypuff now but ivysaurs forward air isn't enough to even to anything to meta knight. It gets out prioritised by every mk move and if meta knight knocks him offstage he is just dead
do turnips count as having "grass properties?"
do any moves not on ivysaur count as grass moves?
i checked ssbwiki and the answer was "kirby - copy ability (bullet seed)"
I used to play smash brawl a lot and I adored Ivy I do not care what people say that’s my boy and I love him
It ain’t a secret to me. I watched the big yellow video!
I used to actually enjoy playing as Ivysaur.
Its a single ivysaur, why use plural so much?
this is random, but it's uncanny how similar you look to Brian David Gilbert.
Is E tier in brawl the bottom of the mid tier or the top of the low tier?
A nerf for the new pokemon trainer is the new trainers voice. Straight trash bring back the old voice, or get a new voice
Went from being the worst out of the trio to (probably) the best 👑
Ganondorf was so close to not be the worst character :(
Lmaofu lol.
anyone know the name of the song in 5:25
Tokyo daylight from persona 5
@@SERMareep2007 thanks bro
Each mon should have 1 stock
I know stamina was a bad mechanic to balance pokemon trainer, but i wonder if it would have been "fair" to keep the type weakness mechanic for smash ultimate, since it feels kind of unfair for a character to have so much options and matchup coverage and have no drawback at all. Other characters simply deal with their weaknesses, while pokemon trainer (or Pyra/mythra) can just switch pokemon and reduce or even nulify the disadvantages in some matchups.
But the reason why it doesn't work is because of how lopsided the ratio of grass/fire/water attacks is in Smash. Brawl's type effectiveness was an arbitrary mechanic that sounded like a cool reference to the games in theory, but is too detached from Smash in practice, since it doesn't account for the moves of every other character. All that would change is that Squirtle gets buffed and Ivysaur gets screwed.
Even though they all have different moves, all 3 of them have the same fatal weakness to camping that holds them back. The only one with a truly remarkable dash speed is the biggest one, and they all have bad air speed, so they all get camped hard. The only standard projectile they have is razor leaf, which is very slow and easy to deal with by ult's standards (think about charge shot, fire arrows, mii gunner crap, etc)
@@Thecolorgreen Halfway writting my comment i remembered that ratio and... yeah. Maybe electric moves could also help in said ratio, but then again, there aren't too many of those in the roster. At the end, some franchise's game mechanics are more suited for smash than others.
@@ellachino4799 I never noticed that weakness... it does make a lot of sense then. Now i wonder if said weakness across all three pokemon was intentional, like Sephiroth's weight.
@@DragonSoulSC The main problem with it is that you can't use a majorly luck based idea to balance a character because it it balances them when it's relevant, the character will be imbalanced when it's not relevant & vice versa. Even worse in situations where its only relevance is beneficial.
For example, if you're fighting a character who Squirtle is already a good matchup against in general but you also have a 10% resistance to fire & they mostly have fire moves & no electric moves, it's gonna be like playing with cheats turns on. So Squirtle vs Charizard, I guess?
Ivysaur is the worst character in Brawl imo
If Smash wasn't garbage nowadays I'd give a shit they have more characters, but I don't because fire shit is gay.....
Also all the other dumbass shit they are adding I don't fucking know or care about 80% of the dumbass characters out there now and it's just a scheme to get more money all the fucking time I'm tired of it
Bro. Ivysaur is good. The fuck yall talking about. His aeriels are straight broken.
%2 lol yeah they are broken alright
This video is about brawl buddy
he is THE worst
I dont agree with stamina going down when moves aren't used, thats just dumb but i hard agree on stamina going down when you do use them. Would stop ultimate pt mains from resorting to spamming with the characters and force them to use all 3 more often, as was designed. Maybe incorporate staling with the stamina somehow to make it so moves like ivy up air could still kill but still be significantly weaker but just not as weak as in brawl with low stamina, idk
Also some things never really do change as you dont even need to ledgehog Ivysaur for them to die while using their up b in ultimate: it can straight up MISS THE LEDGE ENTIRELY LOL
your gameplay is so bad, it reminds me of that game reviewer who tried to play Cuphead but was rly bad at it, that's you
okay but who asked