Comparing 2k vs 4k vs 8k 3D Printed Space Marines to Games Workshop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 เม.ย. 2023
- Can you tell which one of these models is 3d printed? I 3d printed a space marine in 2k, 4k and 8k to compare 3d printing against the official Games Workshop models.
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This video was inspired from channels like Midwinter Minis, Goobertown Hobbies, WintersSeo, Say Hi Paul, Squidmar Miniatures, Miniac Painting, Black Magic Craft, Real Terrain Hobbies and Geek gaming scenics.
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Check how anti aliasing affects support strength, I’ve very much noticed the same thing
If you need a high-res SM model I have something I have been cooking up and am looking to publish in the near future. Let me know and I would be glad to send you a preview.
Been following your content for a while. I used your "This Is Everything You Need To 3D Print Warhammer Models" as a guide for getting my first resin printer a couple months ago. Thanks for all the content and community you foster.
Won’t they be able to tell from the weight?
I wish I had those stl files 😢
why not... 2k vs 4k vs 8k vs.... *40K* 3D printed Space Marine
Comparing 2k, 4k, 8k and 40k. Go for higher quality STL.
I tried to keep it fair between the printers but i should've printed a HD model as well! Lessons learned
@@battlebrothersam Great video all the same!
@@battlebrothersam probably would have been more fair to print the highest quality model on each to get a fair assessment.
Love the content. You are my favorite 3d printing content creator
Hi are you a robot?
Miniatures community are snobs.. oh you have a 4k printer how very droll.
With how much has evolved in the past 2 years in printer and resin technology, let's see how STL's have evolved as well! Strangely the bolter not being hollowed out was a clear giveaway for the games workshop model for me!
for me it was the layer shift on the left legs mid shin, as well as a layer line on right knee pad. Tho the non hollow bolter i though was cause he forgot to drill it NGL lol
For me it was the design of the helmet, GWs is just alot better sculpted.
Not the massive blocky lines on the round surface of the powerpack?
@@SiggyCloud haha no XD didnt even look there
You can still hollow it
If the starting STL is lower poly it won't really matter which printer it was printed on, in fact the higher the resolution the more it would prob highlight the lower poly's. If you'd started with a higher quality STL and then did the comparison I feel it would of been a bit more useful. Of course the difficulties of finding a 1 to 1 for a GW model would prob also be more difficult as well. Interesting idea for a video at least.
I don't really see the point of the "plan", personally there are so many STL creators out there that showcase how much better 3d prints can be than GW's stuff already. Passing as a GW model is hardly a challenge IMO.
Yeah , he should have selected a high-quality STL in first place and then do the whole 2k , 4k thing imo
I've mentioned in the past, you are one of the main reasons I started including 3d printing into my collections. Cheap, easy to commission models, and fun when it comes to customizations. Please don't poke the bear that is GW, you might be a smaller channel, but your content is great and I'd hate to see them wreck your shit simply cause you pissed them off. Lets be real they are petty af. Love your vids Sam!
"Lets be real they are petty af."
Exactly. Look at how they went after Gamza once he started doing those price comparison videos where he was showing just how much cheaper 3D printed models are compared to buying from GW.
I'm really hoping that the Amazon 40k 'universe' takes off, GW makes a tremendous amount of money, and they just license it like Pathfinder, where fans can make their own stuff. The amount of money they are making with the IP and other media must absolutely dwarf profits they are making with minis, and that gap is only going to get wider.
I think it would be best to just do the priming and compare to make the differences more clear. Painting tends to hide these things.
Or highlight depending on the techniques used, like dry brushing. Agreed on the priming only
It's because he doesn't know how to thin his paints, they all look the same with the chunky ass paint.
Certain slicing programs have anti-aliasing settings that can reduce the “grow lines” and edge fractals on those lines.
It’s worth experimenting to get right, because if you can dial it in, it produces nearly flawless prints that don’t look printed at all
For these small details Sam do you use antialiasing moddifier? With my Elegoo Saturn 2 8K this option gives me smooth models. Also you can "smooth" the low poly areas with ZBRush
You know what I don't think I do!!! I should try that first but thanks I didn't know about zbrush!
I'd be interested to see if you used Anti-Aliasing on the 4K and 8K printers if it would fix the polygons on the backpacks.
So the problem with the polys has to do with the STL and not the printer. you'd need to take it into a modelling software like maya or blender and increase the polycount to smooth it out.
@@preddes6522 your slicer has an anti-aliasing feature to alleviate poor polycount
@@terugue This. Anti aliasing was introduced to help blend out layer shifts, and if he's using an 8k printer then it should have zero layer lines.
@@terugue Not really. Anti-aliasing is to reduce the "sampling error" caused by the finite detail density capability (in this case the resolution along the X-Y plane) of the LCD screen by some sort of "over sampling" (by varying intensity or exposure time on concerned areas). But it won't help on the problem of low polycount as it is a problem of the model and not the method of its reproduction.
On the other hand image blur would indiscriminately wash away the sharp edges somewhat covering up the low poly nature of the model.
@@peterkiss1204 Most of us dump Image Blur into AA as it's a suboption within the AA menu in Chitu, that's not able to be enabled unless you tick the AA box.
Just wanna say sam your content quality has taken a quantum leap forward in the short time you've been making content. Really great job man keep it up.
Thanks brother!
If you know Space Marines, you instantly know which head is the real deal.
Focusing on 2k/4k/8k doesn't really mean much. It's more about x/y resolution. An 4k printer with a 5 inch buildplate will produce the same detail as an 8k with a 10 inch buildplate.
With that said IMO anything with an xy resolution of 30ish microns or less will replicate models indistinguishable from GW save any layer lines/ file differences.
I had a phrozen sonic mini 8k sitting in the box for a year because the mini 4k that I was using was that good.
The place where high resolution printers shine their ability to retain all the detail while still cranking up the anti-aliasing for smooth high detail prints.
This comment should be higher.
Thank you so much, I'm buying a printer after my big exams, and may have made a document which contains stl's for 4 armies, and pieces to bulk out kits planned for the future, thank you for being so inspirational.
Thanks brother!
do a real test!
drop them from table hight on carpet or wooden floor, see which model survives and which gets obliterated
So I see you like to bring suffering 😂😂
lol alas the curse of my 3d printed gribblies :). my fabulous Great unclean one had this summary death recently while moving home :). still cant cry I had 5 more printed out waiting in box to be painted :)
With both the Leviathan and 10th Ed. Ultimate Starter being $250+, and individual characters going for $50 - $100 each, GW is pushing people to 3D printers. For the price of the two sets I mentioned, you can get a 12K printer. It is outrageous what they are charging for plastic and At the detail these are at now, I see more and more people moving to resin printing. And with other games openly sharing their STLs or making them available for a fee, it is just enhancing the reasons to print your own models.
Did you use anti-aliasing when you printed the 4K and 8K models? The polies are visible on things like the round bits of the backpacks, and I'm wondering if AA would reduce their obviousness.
Really impressive results. Can't imagine what we'll be seeing in a few more years.
This is probably the only video I can think of that I honestly wish was also filmed in 4k.
I 3D print just for the huge variety of models not just Game Workshop inspired models but models from any creator that has interesting models
In addition to using/not using hot water, your 8k is probably slightly overXP meaning your supports are stronger on it 👍
While modeling from scratch in Blender is a bit daunting, you can import the low poly model you have and try an operation called "Sub-divide faces". As long as the stl is a manifold (no holes and only one face) that should work a treat to make all those poly faces disappear.
this will harm sharp edges, so you should manually mark sharp edges as seams first, then subdivide with a reduced weight for the seems. This will keep the seams sharp and smooth the rest
@@Adlore Hey, thanks for the good info! I'm still very much an amateur at Blender. I guess this would explain why some of the models I've tried this on look like crap...lol. I will definately try that out the next time I need to smooth some low poly models.
Are you using the Cones of Calibration to make sure your exposure settings are right?
It's the exposure calibration that doesn't rely on human perception, it has a pass-fail design, and I think you may want to use it to get your exposures correct.
Hi so I am new at the 3-D modeling printing and I was wondering which model you recommend if it’s a resin one or the other one and all of that?
It’s for fun 40k, d&d, aliens but we do want amazing quality and that it will last of for a while
Lots of high quality space marine backpack stls out there, you can definitely print models to the same quality as HIPS casting. I could tell as you were painting which one was GW though because it had a mold line.
higher quality stl would go a long ways, thinner support attachment points(what your using on this model seems really heavy, with my saturn 2 i do the majority of my work with .2 and .3mm tips for supports and just a few.5mm tips to anchor the bottom of the feet and major assemblies) and just a question what are you using for aa settings and layer height? usually run 8xaa on sharpen details and 30 um(pairs well with the 28um pixel size to help reduce stair stepping)
the bravest man on youtube right here. He gets those emails from GW and sends them straight to spam, god bless you
I don't think you should continue with your secret plan it doesn't accomplish much, 3D artist is pushing the SM template father than the GW has in the past few years, I even seen Crab Marines. A better test is to find a busy Park/Street and ask people what models are better and why. Then tell them the price. People Drop Jaws its funny to see the avg person trip balls over the price of a plastic model lol
Gotta remember "A good paintjob adds detail to a bad mini, But a bad paintjob can forever ruin a great mini"
Are you using anti aliasing? That can help a bit with the polygons as it smooths things out a bit.
It can be a pain to get your settings adjusted for it, but it can be worth it on printers with smaller pixel sizes.
poly can be reduced with Blur/Anti-aliasing without loosing detail but its a delicate balancing act to say the least. But, finding better STL files is a much easier solution if available.
Great comparisons and I'd definitely like to see around round with the highest resolution STLs you can find, unless there's a way to raise the DPI of the existing STL directly, which would also be a very interesting effort for those of us who, like you have been collecting GW-like models for several years. Thanks for the video, well done, m8.
DPI is a measurement that applies to the screen not the sculpt. you need a higher poly model with more detail. Whie you could say higher resolution in both instance when doing so you are talking about different things. A higher DPI printer will show more details or lack there of in the models. with more polys or tessellation you will get smoother results. As the printers become more capable they will start to display the faults of the lower quality models. With the right software he could have imported that model and upscaled the number of polys to help with the tessellation. He could also have done a slight bit of sanding. While I don't play GW I do think companies selling good models for us to print is probably a good way to go.
the best way to compare those qualitys, its making car bodys, in a figure it doesnt impact so much as in a car
I would really like to see this same experiment with a higher quality STL and also printing with various resins, is 8k resin worth it? Does normal resin in an 8k printer compare to GW?
I'm doing it in 2k, because I still haven't had the money to buy a 4k one, it's been working very well
2k is great and it's getting cheaper every year
@@battlebrothersam The Mars 2 is already 100$ don't know if they can get any cheaper . Tbh with the printer prices so cheap already I cant understand people who still spend like 500-700$ on a 2k point army
When you've done sprayed with undercoat and base coat, are the print lines still visible??
When I settle down, I, too, want to get into 3d printing for the bits.
I think it's very noticeable but just because of the STLs themselves.
Hey im just researching 3d printers as i want to get in to printing mainly for warhammer what would be the ideal printer with a 600cad limit ?
Does First Born Stl files exist that are the same size as GW's Primaris marines?
Even if they don't you can scale up quite easily
I saw some info saying that 8k printers create fillets in corners unless you use a more opaque resin due to finer layers and light bleed. This is probably what is strengthening your supports. Go with a darker resin to fix it. You will have to cure for longer though.
I can see the polygonization easily. I also see striations (layer steps) quite conspicuously on the thigh, edge of the gorget and elsewhere. There's also a layer shift line on the shin of one leg, on both printed models.
I hope you get a finer detail mesh model and attempt to place it in the store. You might have to go with a finer layer height if that's possible (it will make the support fillets worse so you will need darker resin).
The horizontal lines on the legs on both the 4 and 8 k models gave it away.
I could get the real one simply because of the leg pose :) , super nice job anyway, keep up the good work man!
Sam, I hope you know this but, just in case, and for your audience, resolution is only half the picture. Its about how many pixels the screen fits into a given area, also called the XY Accuracy. A 6" 2k screen has as many pixels per sq cm as a 4k 10" screen, so they produce the same results. The original Mars (2k) and the original Saturn (4k) have basically the same XY accuracy. If you're comparing two printers with the same build volume the one with higher resolution is better but if the screen is bigger you have to think about more than just resolution.
This is why the best printer currently available is the Phrozen sonic mini 8k at 22 micron xy accuracy (compared to something like the Saturn 2's 28 micron or the original Saturn or Mars's 50 Micron) though it is be about to be eclipsed by the Saturn 3 or Anycubic M5s at about 19 micron both of which have Saturn like screen sizes, but 12k screens.
Great video wish I was able to 3d print my own so I could give it a try too.
I will tell you how they will know its 3D printed and its not based off the looks it will be because of the weight. You can 100% feel the difference in weight from a mold injected plastic GW space marine versus a much heavier dense resin 3D print. The only way to test your theory is too not allow the GW shop owner to hold the piece and that's unlikely.
BUT if you placed the space marine in a small display case and handed it to them, they won't detect the weight difference.
I think it's time to update this video. I have a 3dprinter that prints 18um pixel size with 20um layer height. I see absolutely no lines after priming my models and I usually have eagle eyes when it comes to layer lines.
It's going to get to the point where GW will have to lower prices because people will start making their own models.
I'm not sure what it says about me... but... I really want to know where you got that roll out rubber tray at 1:06 from!
Good video! Have you run an exposure test with your 8k printer and the resin your using? You may be over exposing your prints and thats why the supports are harder to get off. Also, siraya tech makes a great 8k resin.
The helmet was an easy giveaway but thats a modeling issues, not the printers fault
its easy to tell when you can see the polyfaces. Even on the printed models you can tell which are 3d-printed.
4 secs in I immediately know the middle model is the genuine article.
I wait to eat my words.
Have you tried using blender's voxel remesh at the printer's resolution to check if you'll see the faces beforehand? you could add a subdivision modifier to smooth them out
Is methylated spirits as good as using IPA? What's cheaper and are they just as good as each other?
What are some things to look out for if I want to print Mechanicus?
The 4k and 8k models still had support marks, and had aliasing on the legs and collars that give them away as 3D printed models at any resolution. If you're not going to clean those up, then trying to get one of your models displayed in an official GW store's window is stabbing the management at that store right in the back.
does GW vacum form them for mass production or some other method?
The Emperor of Games Workshop is tracking your position !
i got myself my first 3d printer just this month its the elegoo saturn s cant wait to actually start printing
You can alter support density in Chitubox if doing your own, i think the default is 50%. The issue with many presupported stl files is the supports are read as part of the model and are the same density.
hello brothers, I want to get a 3d printer but i dont know wich one to pick ¿do you have any recomentations?
depend on what you want to play. if you want to play wine and or really onramented armys a smaller printer with better resolution is the choice, for a horde or tank army a bigger printer , to put yout more models at the same time makes more sense. i print scince the "Astartes" incident and use a Elagoo Saturn, wich is totally fine to use if you want to print truescale marines. for finer miniature this is sometimes a littlebit tricky but i wouldnt want to miss the ability to print a tank the size of a macharius in 3 prints so about one to two days. best is to inform yourself about the printer. and the comparison. imo a 8k printer is for starters way overkill atleast if you dont want to print high detailed busts.
I would say any saturn sized printer if it suits your budget
@@RestlessSoul45 have you heard of the creality halot one? do you know if its a good printer? cause thats the only 3d printer I can find where i live
weird on dpl i find i cant use pre-supports right out of the d/l as they are normally too weak :(
If you use a rotary tool with a nylon brush, or MAYBE the brass brush (careful with that one), you can smooth out the low-poly lines.
what stood out for me was the details being slightly different to others the GW model Backpack sits lower and has a wider scoop on the head compared to the rest
Gotta,say using 8k has been mind blowing on detail
Would it be possible to print them in 1:72 scale with good results?
You'd think they'd know the difference but you'd be shocked how many people work in a store and don't know much about what they're selling.
From N.I.? - greetings from one Norn Irn guy to another!! Always enjoyable - keep going!
If the supports are tougher in the 8k you can probably lower the exposure time a bit and get even more detail
6:02 unfortunately due to the low poly density on the 3d model´s backpack domes one can easily tell that the left and the right model are 3d printed. You can see the problem here at 0:54
Other than that it is rather hard to tell and thus it is awesome to see how far 3d printing has come already :D
pretty much an easy giveaway.
The giveaway for me was the pose. i've seen it a million times.
As someone getting into 3d printing I would absolutely love it if anyone could let me know where to buy these STL files (assuming they're publicly available). I have a lot of files saved up that are sort of stylized improvements on GW designs but some like the space marines are still good sculpts.
if you look at the elbow pads you can always tell stls usually have polygons on the elbows
You can tell the difference in the rounded parts for sure, this is only because the camera is so close you pick it up, in real life is so tiny that you wouldn't notice it.
Finish the squad and then take them all to GW. See if they would put them on display and then call it there. Pointing out that GW is expensive is like stating the sky is blue but it would still be a fun experiment.
I guessed all three correct the give away on the 4k is the right (from the marines perspective) grieve there appears to be a layer shift and on the 8k model the layer shift is on the left grieve. It was difficult to find it even with the model in full sized for the HD screen. I'd imagine that layer shift would be hard to see before painting so it might be difficult to hide unless it was fixed then repainted.
Where do you get the STLs?
Do you provide links to the stls on your Patreon?
I do but this file is gone iirc
just printing the bodies would be enough: in gw boxes there are many heads, weapon that are not used.if you print the body you can easily attach those spare bits. at that point the difference is almost impossible to tell
That is fact. I have a huge pile of heads and weapons
8K printing beds are 4x size of earlier 2K beds, so they have the SAME printed resolution.
You get to print more models on the larger 8K bed, but model resolution is the same as 2K.
Wut
I remember a while ago I watched a review of a 8k printer and the reviewer was setting it up against a 4k printer and determined 8k lost because the 4k prints were better. What he didn't realize was the 8k printer had a huge print bed and the 4k printer bed was a lot smaller. Printers need to be advertised by pixel density not by resolution. A 4k printer less than half the size of a 8k printer is going to be higher quality because of pixel density.
if you want to have sooth like butter you need to sand them down a bit with sandpaper it removes those i belive printing lines?
Where I can get those stl models to print???
Where do you get your stl files from
Great video. Certain things on all 3D printed models are a dead give away though. I’ve not seen an stl so far where the backpack or the helmet look right.
On the highend consumer 3d printers, i cant see any difference..Though those are quite pricey so if its only for miniatures its probably alot cheaper to just buy from GW..
topology may be sloppy but the tiny vents show that detail definition on printed models exceeds the detail levels GW is putting on their own models
Beautiful video! Let me know if you need a custom model. I can sculpt it!
What camera do you use for these videos? The quality is excellent!🔥
whoever did the model didn't subdivide the spheres in the backpack enough
Where would you get WH stls?
Beginner question: What are the stipulations when it comes to using a 3D printed model for gameplay? Or if you're even allowed?
You mean using models you bought on ebay half-painted? Seller said they are legit.
this is like comparing Hd, 4k and 8k TVs using Hd content.
Another Amazing video Brother
Thanks brother!
I say send your 3d print to one of your Patreons to submit to their local GW. I'd do it, but I swore never to set foot into one again.
Where did you get these models?
yeah i really like 3d printing and how accessable and relativly sheep it is (i have an anycubic m3 myself which iv used a LOT) but in all your comparisons i immediatly picked out the GW model
i even called that you had mixed up the models when you showed them individually
the printed models have a few small lines and artifacts from the printing which are noticable, but the real givaway is the sculpt, ONE glance at the head of the miniatures immediatly told me which one was the GW one as the printed ones just arent as good, the heads are narrower, the eyes and face vent more tilted, the shapes are all just slightly off, and i didnt even need to consiously think, i immediatly subconsiously knew which one was the GW one and which ones were printed
I knew while editing it was going to be obvious 😂😂 I think I'll do a community post with a higher def model that's closer to official
Thanks for this video and tips I was able to print out a batch of these guys. I dont mind buying them but I want to master my painting skills on resin prints to golden demon level before dropping the cash on the real figures so they have paint job I can be proud to display.
Glad it was helpful!
Does anyone know where to get STLs like those?
You can see supports on shoulder pads, that's how I know 😂
The difference between the models is huge! And it's easy to see. Models made on a 3d printer have uneven surfaces, incorrect proportions of some parts, such as an eye on a helmet. The model from Games Workshop is smooth and pleasing to the eye.
Aye, the Games Workshop marine clearly stuck out, the quality is miles ahead. People wonder why they have high prices but you pay for that premium quality
If that’s the case shouldn’t you be able to use thinner supports?