once i saw someone say song of achilles had smut but iirc the only smut like scene was straight up sexual assault. it feels weird to me to call SA smut and kinda misleading. i can’t say this for sure though because when i realized what was gonna happen i skipped until i saw it ended edit: some replies to me said there was no sa so maybe i'm misremembering???? but i remember a scene where a woman tries to sleep with a man even though he says he doesn't want to. anyways the reply also says there are some semi explicit scenes but not too many just wanna correct it
EVERY single time i read a book solely recommended by booktok (not also recommended by friends/influencers i like) i end up disappointed. if they’re not straight up bad, they’re not what people sold them for
@@mentallyunstable1926 it has like some implied smut between Achilles and Patroclus here and there but the only semi-explicit scene it shows is between Patroclus and that girl Achilles got pregnant and even then it's not even that explicit or between the two main characters
As someone who avoids explicit stuff in my books I’ve found TikTok mostly over/under exaggerates. I saw dozens of videos recommending Red, White and Royal Blue and not a single one gave me an accurate idea of what the books like.
I think one of the biggest issues with BookTok is that the opinions of “this is a good piece of literature” and “I really like this book” get conflated to mean exactly the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with liking what you like (sometimes tumblr imagines are better than published books) but nearly every book I got from BookTok has felt like false advertising on so many levels.
that's a problem all around, today i read people equating "why low rise jean contribute to E.D" with "canceling low rise jeans" and here, i heard someone equating racism to stealing something to another artist (mainly something common in the industry) people seem to be unable to differentiate thing
This is relatable to the Warriors community, lol. I know the books are badly written messes, but I still enjoy them. But i'm not gonna pretend that they're literature masterpieces.
But see that’s the thing, “a good piece of literature” and “a book I like” are BOTH subjective. Most books recommended by book tok aren’t for me as I’m not a huge romance reader. But just because I don’t like a certain book or genre doesn’t mean it’s a lie or misrepresentation, it just means it doesn’t fit into my tastes. No one is lying when they recommend a book they love. Les Miserables is considered a great piece of literature by many, but to me that book is unconscionably long and if it were published today and not considered a classic, people would be complaining left and right that it needs an editor. Great literature and good books are subjective. I’m just happy people are reading.
@@hXbradshaw that’s fair, I was more directing this at some of the books that are popular on booktok that were written by people who refuse an editor or try to pump out as much content onto Amazon as possible. Again, nothing wrong with liking and writing that stuff (I love it sometimes!) but it is cult like in the way that you’re like “everyone liked this? I paid good money for this? But it’s awful why does everyone else like it I must be the only one who sees something wrong with it.”
@@hXbradshaw Les Miserables is considerably long because its too descriptive the book is when it comes to setting up the scenes and the location all. Also just going to point out that Les Miserables is pointing out a bunch of issues at the time. And literature back then was more for spreading a certain message than maybe quality also another issue of Les Miserables is the relationship of Marius and Cosette (probably because Valjean keeps sheltering Cosette but still) Eponine and Marius also gets more expounded which isn't a good thing. I'd say some books are too short too eg: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde that needs to be expounded.
I feel like current Booktok is capturing a lot of fanfiction reading audiences - so much fanfic terminology and trends now became attached to discussing romance books on Tiktok in the capacity I've never seen on Booktube.
THIS!!! I think it might also be because so many of these romance books that are getting popular there were originally fanfics or were written by authors who used to write them. All year ppl recommended the Love Hypothesis but it used to be a Reylo fanfic.
@@jackb3982 a very transparent Reylo fanfic I might add. The guy is literally called Adam. It's basically impossible not to picture Adam Driver when you read it
yes it took me some time to get use to the terms "mlm and wlw" to me it always had been "mm, mfm, mf, ff" when we were talking about romance or erotic books.
@@A1_Deb I'd say mlm and wlw is more of a fandom term (examples like anime, manga, kdrama). Half of the fanfic community is ao3 readers so a lot of them use the terms fm,mm,ff since those are the tags on the site themselves.
I worked at Barnes and noble and the amount of young girls reading abusive romance books is insane. A lot of abusive romance books end up on the booktok table
BookTok is so funny to me cuz it’s just 3-5 years behind BookTube. Everything they are raving about was all the rage on BookTube but eventually those readers matured both in literal age but also reading tastes and realized maybe some of those books weren’t all that great and maybe even problematic at times. Ultimately if somethings getting people reading then I’m happy but I do hope this Colleen Hoover obsession ends soon
I read one colleen hoover series (3 books) when i was younger and went on to read another one for shits and giggles and it was literally exactly the same except the characters had different names lol.💀
every side of tiktok is speedrunning all the phases and dramas the other socials have already gone through, it’s like a pandemonium of internet history repeating itself
I'm waiting for the point where TikTok reaches the end of the internet where the others sm apps are at. My bet is a lot of people will jump ship for it being too boring/basic.
I find it very hypocritical for a man to be saying that it's weird when women talk about erotica, when you see so much sexualisation of women everywhere in order to cater to men, even in very mainstream media. But ofc, if it's the women doing the same thing, then it's weird.
@@ti9372 Honestly the wording of this comment kinda answers it for me. For dudes, talking ab porn isn't really something we do often. You also said it yourself boys talk ab porn. It's considered immature and even when grown dudes talk ab porn it's usually as an immature joke. I don't think most guys would care what a woman does with her own time and energy but at least that's the position I'd assume most dudes are coming from. Hope this helps a bit.
@@IshPPG Really?? A bunch of guys don’t talk about a movie Charlize Theron is in, and the convo doesn’t revolve around how hot she is, or what tiny rags she wore, etc etc? Because I’ve heard those conversations. Or gamer dudes talking about how the female characters look, what they’d like to do with them, etc etc? Because I’ve heard those convos too. It seems like men talk about sex and sexual attractiveness very freely in most social situations. But when women do it it’s weird?
@@kata7628 I think what he means is it's seen as immature to talk about it very long, like a teenage boy thing to do, or like very immature guys (not @ gamers, but I've met a lot of gamers who are immature dudes) which...I kinda get, idk like I feel like teenage to college age that kind of loud and out talk is the thing but then midtwenties a lot of guys still do it but not like have full conversations deticated just to porn or legs or what they find hot like it's more in passing Kinda like a guy I saw once who said his girlfriend told her friends in detail about his body and how he is in bed and she went "well I know guys do they same all the time what's the big deal when I do?" And he went "We don't, or at least I don't. I have never described your body or our sex life to my friends. I mean we might talk about a one night stand a few years ago but like hell I'd talk about my girlfriend like that" Like I know it's not every guy/man out there but growing up with primarily dudes (mom out the picture) I always got the feeling that the porn and lockerroom talk was only like a certain type of guy where it was really bad Though that may also just be the asexual in me lol, so I'm seeing all the sex talk a different way. But I've seen and heard my guy friends get tired of dudes who talk about porn all the times
@@IshPPG I’m sorry I thought the wording was clear, I was mostly joking…I used the words girls and boys because when I was younger it was socially acceptable for boys to talk about porn but girls reading fan fiction and stuff was not, now that’s not like, an important issue but the dude’s argument seemed to be rooted in the idea that women shouldn’t express sexuality and that’s just reminiscent of that. I went to a mostly male high school and up until 3rd year (16-17) it went this way, now all my guy friends don’t do that anymore cuz we’re adults, but still. Also consider that neither of our experiences are universal but when it comes to your statement that majority guys don’t give a shit about a woman’s business I actually agree because I know none of my friends do and neither do the men in my family. Still I face an exhausting amount of discrimination, sucks.
I used to work in a nursery and so many parents would get _really_ bothered by their son playing with girls. These were three-year-olds, bare in mind. I feel like a lot of straight men (which I am not) never learn to relate to girls or women as people.
I see the same behavior in many women though, as they tend to project their own worst traits onto men and vice versa. Plenty of men have no clue what women seek in a partner for example, but often times the same is true of women. I think the main difference is that because straight women don't date other women, it's hard for them to recognize that behavior in themselves -- if it is there -- whereas so many women voice their grievances about men's behavior online that plenty of men are keenly aware of how dissatisfied many straight women are with men. But, in my experience, fewer men openly condemn women in general for that sort of thing.
@@ArvelDreth dude, you're just wrong. you don't understand. the way men treat women does not compare to the way women treat men. please go do some research, or look out into the world at all. if some woman hurt you, that's valid and I'm sorry, but it's no where near the same thing as global systemic misogyny and patriarchy
@@ArvelDreth I mean, sure, by definition I'd make logical sense for sexism to be done against males and one would be able to find specific examples on the internet. With that said, I think we're forgetting that there has been a much more tangible pejorative view toward women over time until REALLY recently (i.e., in the 00s where women were said to speak more, and that being seen as annoying, despite this being disproven) that still hold true to this day in some places of the world (primarily theocracies); this doesn't disregard prejudice against typically known "male behaviors", but does imply that the frequency in which this has occured has only begun recently. I don't know much about dating, which was the core of your argument, but it did seem pretty out of left field given that the OP was talking about kids playing with each other. Expanding on that, anecdotally, I percieve that as a girl it was more insentivised for me to partake in traditionally "male" hobbies (videogames, nerf guns, math, debate, sports, etc.) while my more "feminine" interests were scrutinized (mostly makeup). However, I was still allowed to have relatively balanced interests as supposed to my brother since it'd have been unthinkable for him to engage with me over "feminine" things whilst I was still expected to bond with him over minecraft or smth. This has made me reach the conclusion that, at least for me, it seems more acceptable for girls to admire "male dominating" fields than boys w feminine ones; still, with always a slight distate over feminine things overall (i.e., sydnsap making hentai revies = okay, but girls gushing over smut on tiktok is seen as weird)
That was great marketing Barnes and Noble, if i saw a display with a sign that said "books Chad doesn't want you to read" i would absolutely stop and buy it.
Good marketing but also kind of messed up that a massive corporation just co-opted an internet hate campaign against some random guy. Yes the dude took it upon himself to post his shitty opinions publicly but I don't think he did so thinking he would used in a marketing campaign. A few other instances of this have popped up stemming from tiktok specifically and it is frightening that they were able to use his image directly without his consent. Imagine finding out that a pic you posted on insta or somewhere was being used by some company to advertise a product you had no part in.
I feel like booktok is heavily driven by the aesthetics of the book. They go hard on what tropes are present, but nat as hard on the book as a whole. And tropes are important but I can have a book with my favorite tropes and still find it being a hot piece of garbage. They really hammer down quick boom this is in the book which doesn't allow for the much more in depth look at books that booktube gets.
right????? describing things using tropes isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but without the plot i won’t want to read it. if it’s a trope i’m specifically looking for i’ll add it to my list and search up the plot myself, but i rarely see someone actually describe a plot. like you said booktube goes more in depth on the book but i’ve also noticed if people on tiktok review something they never really explain why they gave it that review. peoples rating systems for stars are very different from each other so i’m skeptical to trust just the stars itself.
I think it's more powerful on a global scale because as a European: what is Oprah's book club? Maybe I'm just not the demographic and it's known here, too.
no it definitely is, tiktok is accessible all over the globe and absolutely no one has heard of oprah here where i live. but oh, booktok? man, the amount of people with tiktok book collections.
I'm bisexual and I always found straight relationships where both parties don't like any of their interests baffling. I wouldn't date someone just for sex and then be expected to sit through things I didn't enjoy or vice versa.
@@sweetembrace6706 There is a difference between not enjoying mutual hobbies and outright hating everything your significant other enjoys which is more of what I meant. Also I'm single af and have no idea how to be in a healthy relationship so my comments are irrelevant and purely anecdotal.
@GreenMayoMan69_as a bisexual I agree with them, I’ve met so many Bi’s or lesbians who straight up hate each others hobbies or won’t support each others hobbies - but somehow think they can last a long time 😭
1000% Booktok holds the power of Oprah's book club, but I much prefer that they just go on a table with a sign that says "TikTok Books" than a "sticker" that is PRINTED onto the book and ruins the cover like Oprah or Reese's book clubs
THANK YOU for talking about going in debt for books! it boggles me that 16-18 yr old booktokers have collections as big as mine, a 27 yr old grown ass woman with a master's degree in literature.
Ikr! I'm actually planning on making my own BookTok account in a few months when my exams are over but I'll be sure to make the backgrounds for my videos just like a wall with posters or some plants to the side or something. I straight up can't afford a wall of books the other BookTokers my age have.
Clearly the answer is a fake background that is a giant filled bookshelf xD realistic looking wallpaper :3 I'm joking of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually did that
Most of my book collection came from when I was 16-18, because I worked and didn’t have bills. I would put 50% of my check into savings, 10% into emergency savings, and spend the other 40% on books. I’m now a 27 year old working on gaining an MLS, and last year I think I bought like 10 books total, because as a 27 year old in college, I have a lot less money I can spend on books than I did when I was a teenager. Most of my newer collection are gifts. My husband gets me books for birthdays, anniversaries, and Christmases, as do a handful of my friends. Heck we’re doing secret santa at work this year and everyone told me that I’m the easiest to get for because they can just get me a $20 gift card to B&N.
There's one video I remember seeing of a lady setting up these new gorgeous bookshelves (like she built bookshelves), and people were so mad in the comments that she didn't have enough books to fill them up?!?! The culture of owning books just to look like you own books is huge on booktok
@@jeancolley8908 i feel like that is such a human thing for so many centuries 😭 we are always trying to prove how cool and learned we are through material things
@@sweetpeabee4983 if you know booktuber Jack Edwards, he did a whole thing about moving his bookshelf out of his apartment, and I believe six months later-ish he still has his collection in boxes on lile five different places. It's fascinating, that has to be close to a ton of books! But yeah, it's.... A whole thing
Really! Both of my best friends are OBSESSED with the ACOTAR series. I *tried* reading the series and HATED basically all the charaters. Nothing is explained, nothing makes since, and abuse is just brushed away as "being needed at the moment" or "becuase he loved her". They've told me it gets better towards the end, I said I wasn't going to be reading 600-800+ pages for there to be some sort of payoff.
@@rosechapman2796 As someone who read the first 3 books and the novella (haven’t read the silver flames one) I’d say the first book is the worst one. For the first 300 pages nothing happens and then she randomly adds action sequences in Evil fae lady’s mountain while simultaneously being violated by Rhysand. I think it would’ve been better if Feyre was kidnapped by that Amanda woman at the beginning of the book and spends the book trying to escape. That would’ve been a better spent 400 pages.
@@rosechapman2796 also can we talk about how Maas is a low key pedo with a pregnancy kink and writes that in for no reason when theres better plots than pregnancy? chapter 22 of ACOFAS she has Rhysand literally orgasm to the "picture" feyre was sending in his mind of his CHILD
god Chad's comment about how men don't holler about their spicy videos is pretty funny actually, because there's entire communities online dedicated to men hollering about their stuff. entire stores for their stuff, even!
Anyone remember American Pie ?! Because I remember when everyone was talking about and I remember my best friend complaining all the time any reference gets brought up about how they were forced by their brothers to watch ALL OF THEM.
It’s such a shame that The Song of Achilles is now lacquered as a TikTok book when it’s significantly better than any of the books mentioned in the video.. It’s critically acclaimed too 😭
RIGHT i started reading it before I knew it was a "tiktok book" and i was shocked to find out a book that good is associated with colleen fucking hoover fans
I found the book through a cosplayer on TikTok’s page and I admit I was wary at first but I bought it because I liked the premise. I absolutely loved the book and I went on to read the author’s next book Circe. It’s honestly so beautiful and doesn’t deserve book tok.
I'd say that books is okay at best. Either love or hate it sorta book. However the other book, Circe, which I got to know cause I read TSoA is the best one
tbh, I picked it up because it was so popular on booktok and wanted to see what the hype was about. I expected it to be bad and it turned out to be so much worse than I thought… people have different tastes, just because something is on booktok doesn’t automatically make it good or bad for everyone. I found books like The Lies of Locke Lamora and Flowers for Algernon on booktok and they became instant favorites. so bottomline, take everything there with a grain of salt, but don’t dismiss it outright because it’s there…
First, if you enjoyed Ruby Dixon but want less Breeder/Pregnancy kink, her other series like Corsairs have the same cinnamon roll giant blue aliens but they're space pirates and a lot less breeding. I'm not a big fan of her IPB stuff, but I have really enjoyed the other series in that universe I've read. Also, romance doesn't just sell well. It is the best-selling genre of fiction. Romance books earn $1.44 billion per year, while the second-best-selling genre is only $728 million per year. Romance books support the rest of the fiction industry. I think that calling romance the same as porn is like calling any rated R-rated movie "porn." With the exception of erotica, most romance is a storyline first, smut second. Especially a lot of traditionally published romance has as many sex scenes as the average blockbuster movie with nudity. And the sex in romance books is actually plot-relevant. The people walking around acting like reading the Love Hypothesis is akin to watching a porno in public never have anything to say about the random sex scenes in so many movies. Even the most erotic novel tends to have more plot than a porno. So why can the "Chads" of the world talk about American Pie and Eurotrip in public without being accused of being loud and proud about watching porn?
Right? And visual porn is a lot more traumatic for a child to glance on than a book or ebook where you’d have to be real close and personal to figure out it’s smut
I really liked the eu of Ruby Dixon as well. Loved the lore behind thr different alien species and liked the fact that not everyone fell in love just because a parasite chose them lol. Plus kindle unlimited I has suggested some really good series from these books, so much so I have been thinking of starting a TH-cam channel just so I can talk about them lol.
Just to play devils advocate for sec, shouldn't it be mentioned that to see those R rated movies you have to be 17 to get in the theater? Like they aren't broadcasting them in times square for the world to see or something. I honestly agree that smut is no where near porn, it just seems like a lot of young impressionable people are being exposed to very specific sexual fantasies that are not usually common in the average relationship. Just like porn gives lots of men exaggerated expectations of sex, I think it is possible smut may do the same at times for young women. The idea that reading smut in public is inappropriate is ridiculous but I do think there is a discussion to be had in terms of its media impact.
@@lastchancestudiosllc I see where you’re coming from. Most romance isn’t “very specific sexual fantasies,” though. Most romance books specifically label in the description if they are anything beyond the same usual vanilla that you can see in movie or even on TV if no nipples or private are showing. And if someone under 17 is reading adult romance, they can just as easily be reading or watching sexually explicit content online or elsewhere. Reading a book is more like watching a movie at home. An R rated movie might be ID for 17+ in theater but at home or elsewhere it’s up to the parents to step in if they don’t want them watching it. And kids will find ways to watch it anyway. It’s the same with reading. Plus, I’m not sure how many romance books you’ve read, but there’s not much unhealthy expectations about sex in them generally. Other than the occasional P hitting a cervix or multiple Os without the accompanying over sensitivity or in an unrealistic time frame. But those things are brought up and mentioned a ton in romance communities and reviews. So chances are teen readers would be seeing that too. But I think, in general, romance books are actually helpful for setting expectations for young readers. So much about sex, especially sex when you’re young, focuses on the enjoyment of the one with the P. Romance books can be one of the first places that a young reader with a V will see that they can and should enjoy it too. It’s also common in romances that the character with a V can’t O from penetration alone and needs C stimulation. Something that is true for a lot of the population but isn’t always widely discussed. I also want to say I don’t think porn is inherently bad either. I don’t think romance books are the same as porn but I also don’t have a problem with porn in general. I think if you’re old enough to view it ( even if you aren’t 18+) you can also view it responsibly. Just like some romance books, there’s porn that can perpetuate harmful ideals and expectations. In both cases if the consumer uses their best judgement and approaches it mindfully, there’s no reason it has to be a bad. I think everyone’s first time can be awkward, but going in with some idea of how it works and what feels good can make it more enjoyable.
As a man I can only speak for myself when I say I like women. I couldn't care less if women read erotica and talk about it. I think it's funny how men get upset about women doing things that we pretty much do. Like some men got upset about that WAP song while listening to the same type of music but from men. I even believed in this double standard when I young. The difference now is that I grew up. Some of these men on TikTok haven't. Ps: WAP is a hilarious gem.
@@katherinec4360 Not the original commenter but I do. It's definitely not something you do with everyone. Like, I talk about it with only some of my close friends. People have different sensibilities and you have to cater to those.
@@katherinec4360 the only people I share any of my NSFW interests with is usually women, as they seem to want to talk about it much more than any of my guy friends. My male friends are usually talking about their hobbies, lives, general thoughts, politics etc. Whereas my female friends either just share memes, talk about their friends, or talk about smut. I don't hold either tendency above the other though; I enjoy both for different reasons and am happy to listen to my friends talk about most things.
I do think there's also an interesting conversation to be had about the fact that a lot of written erotica is targeted towards women and their fantasies and as a result, we see women reading porn that differs from free pornhub porn anyway. There tends to be an emphasis on romance and emotional connection in these novels and v.s. just sex. It's interesting to me then that Chad makes it out to be 'just' porn - I'm sure some of them are - but as an avid reader of historical romance porn it's generally 70% plot and relationship drama and 30% sex. Now I'm not saying there's anything wrong in porn without plot BUT the books that Chad has targeted are not that and I guess the conversation I'm eager to have is this idea that the spicy books these people are talking about serve an erotic purpose that really resonates with a large portion of people. What's wrong with discussing that?
So many! I love anything by Courtney Milan (big recommendation is The Brothers Sinister Series which starts with the novella The Governess Affair). Tessa Dare has so many amazing series but I personally recommend her Castles Ever After series which sounds like absolute chat in terms of a title for a series but are genuinely delightful (the first book is Romancing the Duke). Tessa Dare's Girl Meets Duke series, starting with the novel The Duchess Deal is equally delightful. I've also been into Mary Balogh lately, she's very prolific and can err on the side of Austen-y at times but is lovely. My garbage recommendation is Elizabeth Hoyt. Now I'm not saying she's a garbage writer but Dare and Milan have quite feminist and considerate characters in the majority of their books and Hoyt does not always have that BUT they are sexy and often intriguing novels. She has a HUMUNGO series of books that just go on and on with different protagonists that are all somewhat connected and I did not read them in order but that was fine. Top picks are Scandalous Desires, Thief of Shadows and Dearest Rogue. I hate Eloisa James and no I will not elaborate. If you value your time, don't read her novels.
True as a historical romance reader myself - I hate having the preconceived notion of what I'm reading is just erotica.I'd have to explain that it isn't just that - it's about relationships, family, friendship etc. But then again whether erotica or not - people have to learn to not shame others for liking what they like. My family although in a joking manner jokes about my historical romance books but that also makes it harder for me (and this could be the same for others) to really enjoy books I enjoy around when my family with the notion that they'll joke about it.
@@georgiamatthews6346 as a historical romance reader myself, game recognizes game you have great taste. The Brother's Sinister series is one of the all time greats (Violet & Sebastian forever
Seeing Ice Planet Barbarians on a table the last time I went to Barnes and Noble gave me the biggest feeling of shock. Because the first time I had heard of it, it was literally only available on Kindle/in ebook format. I never expected to see it just casually sitting there in a popular book store
I love withcindy here on youtube because she always talks about how she never buys books and will either be gifted books or she checks them out at her local library. Idk if she has a tiktok but she's great too!
Cindy is amazing and Cari can read also borrows books as well. I like creators who borrow books because it encourages people to be more conscious about what they buy. Also libraries are quiet and a nice place to sit on a chair and read!
Most of my fyp is smuttok. I read a lot more now thanks to it - mostly just romance. My boyfriend doesnt read much but he always asks me to recap the book I'm into. He likes listening to my retellings. It feels like having a gossip session - without the emotional investment of having to sort out real life drama. Anyway it's a fun time.
I love that you do this because I do the same thing with my husband. He loves letting me prattle on about whatever romance book I'm reading at the time. It satisfies my urge to gossip (which I really try not to do anymore for personal reasons) and it fulfills his want for me to pay attention to him. Good times all around!
Ooooh this is so wholesome :) I do the same but with movies from my childhood my boyfriend hasn't watched (he has watched VERY few movies as a kid). It feels like I get to yap about the characters and my judgements of them and the plot while he gets the privilege of knowing movies he's never watched.
Am male attracted to women. I personally adore women and my closest platonic friends are women. Then again, I regularly discuss things with the girls that’d make Chad’s hair fall out
oh god yes, only reason i liked booktok was that it recommended me fantasy, not all of it was good but some was that was ok. now, a year later, teenage girls are so obsessed with heterosexual sex-based, colleen hoover type, borderline abusive relationships that it hurts me. i don't really mind sex in contemporary novels but the obsession with abusive relationships,,, since its 2022 now i hope tiktok would branch out to stuff like lgbt novels, sci-fi or just urban fantasy.
The problem I have with booktok is that there aren't enough variations. I like smut. I just don't want to read them 24/7. They all recommend the same book for months. And then all of them move to the next book.
Booktok is very on brand with this generation as a whole. We want quick, fast suggestions and we move on too quickly. I don't like it at all personally. I want to see more fantasy books, or sci-fi, I love smut but I agree with you, it's not something I want to exclusively see. I don't have Tik Tok because I just dislike the app in general, but from what I've seen it's just a bit too much of the same thing.
@BooksToAshes It seems like the recommendations match the app. Don’t get me wrong. I love some fast fluff to read, but I need some hearty meals to go along with my snacks so to speak.
My problem is that it seems like these authors write the smut first and build a “story” around the scene after. For example, I think that Priest book that was hugely popular could’ve been a great story (and great smut) if there was more substance to it. Maybe had some build up and internal conflict, but no it was just “oh hot woman. I throw away my relationship with my god/my job now.”
I would say that Chad's real problem is growing up in a religious conservative community where sex=shame. If you travel around some states like Utah for example you'll hear the exact same sentiment.
Huh that's pretty weird. When I was in a Catholic high school the most popular book among us was Fifty Shades of Grey and it was managed by a religious order ffs😂 As a Christian, I think it's pretty stupid that most of the people in this group treat sex like a demonic illusion from Satan or whatever, when in fact it is a gift from God when a man and a woman consummate their love in marriage. Sex isn't a bad thing, and usually the people who say it's bad are the most shady ones (and ironically one of these people said I'm a devil worshipper just because I wear eyeliner, black nails, and black clothing and I listen to Rock music despite being a Catholic😂). And oh, one more thing, he's probably one of those super extreme sects that demonizes cartoons or something.
So I am reading "Heartthrob" by carol dyhouse at the moment. For those who haven't read it, it's a straight history book discussing what women have found disreable through out the 20th/early21st century, the cultural context and the cultural reaction. One thing that pops up again and again is men have a negative reaction to women finding a person or story desireable when the object of desire is not in line with ideals of masculinity at the time. In other words, men get very uncomfortable when they realize that women, and not the men themselves, are the arbitrators of what is desirable in men. Which as a short fat woman, I sympathize. But in each case men will try to rip the object of desire down. I think this is the big thing, women live in a society where we are constantly aware what men deem as attractive. So the reaction of women will be: the body positivity movement, dancing burlesque, reading smut/romance and being loud and proud of it. No gronw men don't tend to talk about porn, but they don't have to, we already know what they find desireable. It's everywhere.
@Thessalin that's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Its the paradox of wanting a woman who is pure for them but also wanting a woman who is experienced, but also wanting a woman with a low body count. Make up ya damn mind.
I gotta say the weirdest part of spicy booktok for me is that growing up fanfic and ✨spicy✨ stuff was kept a secret except with the CLOSEST friend and it feels like whiplash to see it publicly praised. To a lesser extent seeing fanfic terms being used to describe published books like using ao3 tags, rlly helps me understand a book better tbh. (I enjoy it not being weird anymore just wild lol)
I've read many spicy fanfics in my time, a whole bunch of them while taking public transport and I still absolutely know how to act around other people. I never get tired of pointing out how hypocritical it is to watch porn but then try to shame people for reading it. Just a different medium. Let me enjoy things nothing weird or hypersexual about reading smut in your free time.
There's literally study done that says men are visual creatures hence why most of them prefer porn and that women prefer emotions hence why we prefer these types of books, they have more emotion to them in all honesty. Also let's remember that porn is targeted towards men and erotica books usually towards women, especially as of lately. Men shaming women on liking these eroticas is just them saying "women shouldn't have a libido" like eff off
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 you have to remember that a lot of erotica is long form, drawn out storytelling that also has porny sex scenes. That person is very likely not reading the steamiest parts of the book when they're on the train. But if they are who gives a shit, its not remotely the same as having someones whole asshole and balls banging against each other visible on your screen.
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 no? Unless you're touching yourself while reading or getting yourself visibly turned on, i don't see how it's weird. If anyone's reading over my shoulder and they're shocked, it's their own problem for not minding their business in the first place 🤷♀️
@@sin3358 Men get shamed for there pornography use all the time. We are told we are sexually objectifying women and are misogynist for viewing porn. The men who criticize you for doing this are sick of being shamed by women for something that women do all the time. Its a double standard that you are supporting. Stop shaming men for objectifying and serializing women and men will stop shaming you when you do the exact same thing.
As an indie author, I was pretty excited about the marketing potential of booktok. Until I realized that nobody on booktok wants clean/sweet contemporary romance. Certain genres do, indeed, blow up really well on tiktok, but not every genre is going to succeed there. I was on there for a long time and really didn't find much of a market at all for romance that isn't steamy. So it's definitely not the best platform for any and every author. Fantasy, especially YA fantasy, and spicy romance seems to be the two genres that do best on tiktok in my experience. Also, I'm really glad to hear that the Love Hypothesis isn't spicy, because I don't like spicy books, and I was assured by SEVERAL people that it wasn't spicy. So I bought it, and then immediately after I bought it, I started seeing it recommended in all these "spicy recs" tiktoks, and I was super disappointed. So I'm really glad to hear that it's been misrepresented. I was super excited about it when I thought it was a less spicy romance.
Hi, I know this is a year later but I’m actually looking for a sweet romance. I really struggle with reading smut (I’m ace) but I do want a fun romance between my darker reads. So could I get the title for your book to check it out?
Same for adventure and sci-fi and mystery I wanna share my Sonic fanfic but I don’t think no one on TikTok would give a shit cause it’s not just romance like most fanfics but romance is the subplot And the world is ending and there is shit about gaurdians and lore and it’s a AU but it won’t hurt to try!
@@libitouwen926 personally for me a sweet non-smut romance I enjoy is Elves of Lessa by K.M.Shea it's a set of currently three mostly-independent books (set in the same setting in a specific chronological order but you can read them in pretty much any order without getting too heavily spoiled) each one focusing on a single pairing and is mostly a combination of sweet romances with a hint of action/intrigue to spice things up. Smut and overall sexual references are practically non-existent, and although it's not the most groundbreaking work it's a sweet fun series that I personally enjoy.
I think men like chad are the type who are incapable of being friends with women because they're constantly trying to sexualize them. They aren't interested in relationships with woman as people but only see them as objects to be obtained and then discarded. Also yes i do like women lol
I’m 30, and teachers were practically begging kids to get books in their hands when I was in school. Chad’s “spicy book girl” is 100% embellished, if not entirely fictional lmao.
@@treeforged9097i disagree, the books being discussed here are perpetuating harmful rhetorics and have little to no value as literature. what's the point of reading books that are devoid of soul, morally controversial, and written poorly in the most objective sense?
Honestly, considering how not only those types of men in general but also a lot of teenagers are super weird about women/femme people reading any type of smut, kudos to Amanda for defending this type of literature. It was actually a refreshing take after a week of hellish discourse on Twitter.
I am so happy I’m not on TikTok. I get to hear about the drama from Booktube, but I have no part in it. I do find it funny when BookTok discovers these mammoth books from 5+ years ago (like Song of Achilles).
OHH is that why Song of Achilles is a 12+ week wait on hold at my library despite not being a new release? Dang. Learn something new every day, thank you!
As a person who works in a library and is working towards their library degree, I find it funny if someone is against “spicy” books. Half of the books taken out are of that variety and most are from the older generation. Christian fiction is huge where I work, a more conservative part of Canada, which is essentially just spicy books with religion as the basis. Spicy books are just more sexual because we are more sexual as a society. They are the harlequin romance novels of the 21st century and no one should be ashamed or dissuaded from them. Reading is reading no matter the topic, it’s better to read spicy titles then not read at all! If a YA individual is enjoying the title, let them enjoy it because life long reading is important. Just my opinion.
If you believe that then you have to stop shaming men for sexually objectifying women. You cannot shame a generation of men for there pornography use and encourage a generation of women for there erotica use. Its a sexist double standard and that is what this Chad guy is pointing out. If its ok for women to read erotic in public then it should be ok for men to watch pornography in public.
I read a lot of historical fiction as my main genre, and have had so many instances of being on the bus or out in public reading about the most atrocious war crimes imaginable, stuff that honestly makes me put down the book for a second to stop myself from sobbing or freaking out. I feel like that's more fucked up than reading some cozy spicy books, but idk if Chad would agree.
My favorite genre are classic english literature and crime thriller/horror I've definitely had meltdown due to books being tragic as fuck in a public places. I have pretended to be having a cold so many time in the past to avoid people having to ask me if I was okay.
I recently got into horror as a genre, and honestly, I feel more inappropriate to read that in public compared to smut - at least in a romance book, they're having a fun time, and not, you know, performing beheadings.
When that happens to me, I have a moment of "omg people do such horrid shit" and I take a sweeping look through the bus or whatever and in my mind I go "Guilty. Guilty. GUILTY. You are all GUILTY. NONE of you are free of sin." and I bet those poor people would be astonished at my doctrine until I compose myself.
I remember reading a come of age story with the ending making me cry at the end because it was so full of catharsis and I was just crying on a bus over a book for a solid 5 minutes
I’m am seriously confused by Chads comment about hypersxual women. There has hardly a time when men have ever been called hypersxual. Maybe for flashing or wnking in public which you know are actual crimes, not silently reading a book but sure those women are hypersxual (there are exceptions like that episode of the office you mentioned but mostly not the case)
If someone likes reading "smut" who am I to say it's wrong? As a man, I see nothing wrong with men/women/whoever, reading erotic books. I think it's cool this group found something they enjoy and can share it together. Plus, it promotes more reading.
As a 'man attracted to women' who also likes to read fantasy and science fiction and fanfic, I think this 'Chad' is just another example of someone with a dumb opinion believing that everyone else also believes their dumb opinion and just isn't saying it. It seems to be a common attitude in conservative Christian communities. And I don't think I need to add this, but I and all the men I know do see women as fantastic and beautiful and powerful and lovely, and also just people who deserve basic respect and decency.
Women are human beings they are just as varied and flawed as men are. There are a lot of women who are not powerful, not fantastic and not beautiful. Until you accept the dark side of women you will never treat them like full human beings. You only see them as pretty little decorations. If you do not understand the double standard here then you are lost. Men get shamed for talking about pornography and women never get shamed for there erotica. If you believed in equality you would be speaking out against women shaming men for there pornography usage or you would be joining the bandwagon and shaming women for there pornography use. You can't have it both ways.
Some men don't like women. I suspect that Chad did know a girl in high school who probably made a scene for attention about reading smut in school or who got caught once and refused to back down about doing it again. What the stuck out to me is that he seemed to be pissed that 'the correction' he felt the girl in high school deserved was never applied to these other women who must have annoyed him with their loud and proud squealing over smut. They had never had that open acceptance of sexuality beat out of them, metaphorically speaking. He seems to have rigid definition of gender roles and doesn't like when women step out of them.
You’re right about the publishing industry being “weird” and adverse to change, as a writer who has had many (bad) experiences with “traditional” publishing. I also work in film, and I can say that film is far more diverse and there is a lot more room for creative freedom (which might be surprsing to hear). Publishing is FAR more elitist than the film industry, which is really saying something as film doesn’t exactly have a golden reputation regarding tolerance of “outsiders.” Regardless, Hollywood is dying and the rise of indie film and streaming is giving newer generations of filmmakers a new range of opportunities - while publishing, for some reason, still relies on vastly outdated concepts and business models.
If English Booktok is this problematic, then Filipino Booktok is a cesspool of no returns. There's this smut series called the Possessive series and it is crazy popular in our country that every teenage girl has heard of it. It's originally from Wattpad so the cult it spawned is absolutely massive
Filipino Wattpader here and I have to agree. I basically finished the ps series when I was only 13! It's honestly concerning how many teens consumed that type of media, but I also can't blamed the author since she already gave her fair share of warning towards the beginning, the middle, and even at the end of the story.
Was expecting this to be more about how book tok has become more toxic about certain books being great and you can't critique them or dog piling smaller accounts who speak against the"group think". Instead I'm just pissed at Chad like leave them alone dude what is wrong with you?
I completely disagree with the idea that erotica is the same as porn. I think people can read a romance book that features erotica simply for the storyline, whereas it is unlikely someone is watching porn for any reason other than sexual pleasure. Furthermore, I think porn has many problematic elements that is absent in erotica. Not that erotica can’t be problematic, but porn is very objectifying and has caused direct harm to women. I think erotica has a different stigma from porn simply because it is predominately consumed by women.
@@AN-sm3vj Many erotic novels treat gay men and women of color vary poorly by sexuylizing them and using them as sex objects in there sexual fantasies. Since the rise of e readers most books are pirated so most authors do not make any money off of there work. That being said fan fiction erotic is vary common, and depicting actors from franchises doing sexual acts that they would never consent to doing is vary problematic. Real people read erotic and they get distorted ideas about relationships and they end up ruining relationships and fetishisizng certain people in the real world that does a lot of harm to themselves and others. Therefore erotica is a problem and it should not be dismissed just because women like it.
I just started buying books again and damn they're expensive. I wanted to buy some books at Barnes and noble but most were $20+ but way cheaper on Amazon. I used to get most of my books from the library only buy books from used bookstores. Most used bookstores closed though. Thank the gods for libraries.
Thriftbooks is fantastic, I got 3 college textbooks for $13 total last semester, I'm always recommending it to people. The only reason I don't have a huge hoard of books is because I don't have a shelf to put them on after moving
Man the hoarding is real. I just did a huge decluttering and got rid of about 200 books, but I still have easily 1,000 or more left. Luckily I have avoided debt by buying mainly from my local thrift stores and utilizing my library for new releases, and then sometimes if I really really love a book I'll buy it new ^.^
I totally understand. I got rid of all my hard back books but I am still attached to the paper backs. I have an audible account now so I have been collecting them physically.
Jeez I can't even picture having more than 500 books. My collection is currently at 120 volumes and it took 7 years, besides, my bookshelf is running out of space already! Most of the stuff I read now are not so legal copies in my phone 😔 damn ~ suffers in 3rd world country where taxes for books are insane
I think there is still a layer of dehumanization occurring. Yes the subjects in smut aren't real people such as the ones often exploited in the adult film industry but the content of many books still instills incredibly warped expectations of sex and relationships. It is all a spectrum honestly and some smut reaches into areas that are probably detrimental for young impressionable readers to be consuming. The stuff that focusses on complex sexual power dynamics is so casually thrown around and I worry it gives people this expectation that those fantasies are common in every relationship. It could lead to people seeking out partners that may not truly be a healthy match for them.
The pandemic has postponed or cancelled many cons and book fairs, so I've bought less books and had the time to organize my bookshelves, yet there's still stacks of books around the house! I really miss book fairs where I can go around and get recommendations from authors and random industry people, who latch onto one minute thing I happen to mention and find me a book I've never heard of, yet turns into my new favourite.
The criticisms of smut books as being the same as porn also ignores how many of these books are written from female perspectives and not perpetuating the violence towards women typically associated with live porn. People can safely engage with spicy material without needing it to be acted out by people that they might not identify with, or feeling the guilt that comes with consuming mainstream porn that actively upholds and relies upon damaging ideas about sex, relationships and body ideals.
I don't know if it's the same in the US, but here in Latin America, most of those books showcase a toxic protagonist that is misogynistic most of the time and treats women like garbage.
I don't think that stereotype should be seen as something else than toxic masculinity, but some girls idealize those type of men, thanks to those books.
@juanestebanmoralesquevedo7002 i think what op meant was, at least we dont have a visual representation of that relationship and dont have to wonder if the actress is okay
Booktok does have some power. I'm a librarian and have been an avid reader since I was younger but I have never seen the rise of reading in the younger generation so much until booktok came around. I will say its the same like....5 books that people tend to gravitate to... "It Ends With Us, The Song of Achilles, The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, etc.) but hey if they're reading, they're reading and if it gets them to discover new books its fine by me.
I grew up in a real cult and I find it challenging when people make comparisons like this. I can definitely see how communities can get too insular and things with a mob mentality get out of hand. But it’s very far from being a cult. The work I’ve had to do to recover from my cult experience is difficult and ongoing. I think it will always impact me. So I wish we had a better word for that feeling of people are getting way too into this and not looking past the borders of this community enough
@@CircusoftheMoon Oh thank you for clarifying, I thought you were trying to "gotcha" me :) But that is a very interesting question. I need to think on why that doesn't elicit the same feeling
I love women. Idgaf what women read. I'm too busy minding my business to notice who reads what anyway. I'm just happy that people are reading and enjoying it. Besides I'd be lying if I said I never read "spicy" books and short stories. Snekguy is one of my fav smut authors.
It's because too many men still believe all women's purpose and the only thing interesting about us is their pleasure via sex. You don't know how many men don't like when women talk sexually about them because that means women are getting off but not for their pleasure but at their extent. AKA men don't like being treated like objects that's only for pleasure and not as a human being like they do to women.
@@mykaruest3620 That's an interesting thought. 🤔 I'll have to talk to some of the homies and see what they think about this. I figured most guys would either be flattered or not care if women objectify them for sexual gratification. Thanks for the insight.
@@TheKountdown I think it's mostly the highly conservative men who do this sort of thing actually. Because no one I know, and no one any of them knows, go about shaming women that way.
@@TheKountdown fresh and fit echo that sentiment all the time aaaaa. I'm glad that guys within my proximity are actually sane so that I don't go on generalizing men
As someone who read romance novels during the era of the "bodice ripper" covers, this feels very much like the same old story, just a different medium. Though it's a lot easier to find community now than it was then, so that's a plus, at least. Unfortunately "people getting mad about other people reading smut" is one of those constants that transcends all other generational differences.
True, even Anne Rice was writing it. The problem I have with a lot of booktok recommendations though isn't the 'spice' or 'smut' but the rest of the book. Physically and emotionally abusive relationships, Stalking, Incest and sexual assault are all written off as 'You just don't understand dark romance'. Maybe I don't but I understand it being marketed to kids and teenagers even less. We already see the impact that porn has on how women are treated and what men think we want. The last thing we need is for the kind of behaviours in these books to become normalised. I don't have an issue with anyone's kinks as long as everything is... Key word- (I'm talking to you Penelope Douglas, Colleen Hoover, HD Carlton) CONSENSUAL
I love Thriftbooks especially when I’m looking for something that I don’t see in bookstores anymore. Like early 2010s or late 2000s YA books that I’ll randomly remember that even libraries don’t put out because they’re just not popular anymore. Or certain paperbacks from the 80s and 90s. Usually it helps fulfill a specific hyper fixation I’ll get that is no longer relevant in today’s world 😂
As someone who used to ID as a man, yeah a lot of them kinda genuinely don't like women. A lot do, of course, but there's a very loud fraction of men who just don't enjoy being around women
One of the funniest BookTok related statistics I found was finding out my BookTok account had a 96% female audience (for reference, I also make TikToks about Valorant/esports on a different account, which was 88% male and 12% female). I don't know what to take away from that but it certainly made me feel emotions! Also I mean like yeah... I like women (as a guy). IDK though I'm just built different 😎
I don't have any set statistics, but as an active part of the booktube community once upon a time, that seems to be the demographic swing overall. For some reason both booktube and booktok, as a whole, are overwhelmingly female. It doesn't matter what genre, it's mostly women, and specifically ages 13-mid-twenties. For every one male booktuber there'd be about ten female booktubers, and the audience was just as skewed. Not really sure why it happens that way, but it's interesting to think about
@@allbymyshelf4125 I think that would make sense, I heard that in the 80s games were marketed mostly and aggressively at boys which might explain the skew nowadays (which is starting to erode thankfully) maybe in the case of books too it has to do with marketing?
@@kusalg idk, there seem to be ads for webtoon for women but that's about it. As for videogames, maybe genshin and light-novel inspired games have been slowly marketed toward women, which is great since video game literacy is cool
It would be interesting to hear you talk with Leena Norms about this topic since she used to be in the traditional publishing industry and you both have a vibe I enjoy.
To be honest anything that gets people reading is a good thing as far as literacy education goes. We're always taught to try to get kids engaged with a SSR book by having them self select something of interest. There's no reason this shouldn't be the case for adults too. I remember we were forced to read The Hobbit and I couldn't make head nor tail of it because fantasy is so boring to me but I remember what I was personally reading at the time in my personal life too and only one of those kept me enjoying reading 📚
@@AN-sm3vj yeah, I was reading tween girl novels like the clique and Princess diaries, which are not high literature but totally appealed to me at the age I was. The hobbit was a real slog to get through and even when I did read it the comprehension was lacking because I had little will to understand it as fantasy just wasn't my thing. Years later I did my degree in education and independent choice was very much emphasised to foster stronger literacy
You trying to stifle your maniacal laughter is one of the few things getting me through 2022 so please don’t ever feel the need to edit that or puppy moments out regardless of what haters say.
The end of your video about hording is something Booktube talks about a lot. And this year one thing I saw was a lot of creators having goals to get a specific number or percentage from their local library. I really hope booktok ends up promoting the same thing!
"Do men like women?" is a great question - I often wonder that myself. Seeing how most men talk to/talk about women is a source of endless frustration and confusion for me, because the apparent answer is "no" based on their behavior. Being a father of three daughters has only added to my confusion and frustration, when I hear how men are still - STILL - dismissive of women's opinions and negative about their behavior, as if they have any say in the matter. It's just... UGH. Speaking for myself, since high school I've found that I find being friends with women way easier and more comfortable than being friends with men. All of my most important relationships (most of which are not romantic at all) are with women. My only semi-constructive answer is that I think many men value different things in their friends...it's not that they don't like women per se, but they often say and do things that they personally prefer in a friendship, and those things come off as dislike if you don't value those things. Mostly, it comes from being unwilling to listen...it's hard to show that you like someone if you don't hear and understand where they're coming from. For example, men think that their "advice" is helpful and useful, which is a positive for them. If women see it as belittling and insulting, they kind of just don't get why. But really... I just don't know. I like women (as friends, as colleagues, as partners, as fellow human beings) and I do my best to show it in ways they'll see. It's not that hard.
You said you don't know why, but you nailed it on the head already. They just don't listen and don't care. Even guys who seem to be happy or even "good" people, can have a blindspot where they simply don't give a shit about the thoughts and feelings of women. And its an attitude that they are raised from birth with, through their family, media, and other boys. Women are supposed to please you, and you aren't supposed to relate to women. 2 gender rules that are instilled from a very young age.
I find that women just don't listen to me and my feelings and they only really care about there own perspective. This video is a good example of that. It is well known that women are aroused by erotic books and men are aroused by erotic images. Men are criticized constantly for watching pornography and it is illegal to watch publicly in most places. However women are celebrating that they read erotic in public and just put on a "poker face". When I point out that this is a double standard that makes it seem like men should be more ashamed of there sexuality then women are, I get accused of "not liking women". I like women but I don't like double standards and I don't like how women turn a blind eye to double standards when it helps them and hurts men.
@@treeforged9097 images and porn have controversies regarding _real people_ as in, real people/actors are involved. a LOT of trafficking issues and even underaged issues. while with fictional books, there's absolutely no one getting harmed, its all imagination.
@treeforged9097 there is a BIG difference between watching a p0rn0graphic VIDEO, and reading a p0rn0graphic BOOK. With a video its actively displayed and there is a good chance others (including children) will see it accidentally. And there'd be no mistaking what it is. But books are infinitely more private. In order for someone to get accidentally exposed to that from a book, they'd have to be reading over your shoulder for quite a while. Nobody is going to know the contents of a book just by looking at it. Reading it in public is not exposing anyone to anything. Watching it in video form actively SHOWS indecent imagery to people who haven't consented to seeing that. It's the same as flashing someone.
I used to be a book hoarder but a few years back I switched to just kindle books because lack of space. It takes awhile to get used to, but it's much more convenient because you can just use the app on your phone instead of bringing a book everywhere.
The one thing that bugs me the most about Booktok is how much disdain for ebooks and audiobooks is expressed, often under the guise of "paper books are better" (which I disagree greatly with as a librarian).
I like audiobooks to fall asleep to and on car rides and ebooks on trips and other places I can't lug books around to. They have lots of utility that paper books don't. No medium is the best, but that means that paper books aren't the superior form either.
I literally have 600 books on my Google Drive, to read on my phone. I can do 3 % of that in physical form if I pack right. Plus, the amount is a pretty cool thing to flaunt in itself.
Yeah. It’s dumb. Sure the experience of reading a paper book is great, but ebooks are fantastic for convenience, and audiobooks are great not just for people who can’t read at all or just for long proof time, or for listening to while doing other stuff. There’s a place for everything.
As someone with adhd, autism and perhaps being chronically online, I really need to have a physical book to keep focus. Audiobooks are too easy not to focus on and e-books are just a click away from anything else that gives more dopamine straight away.
I will always prefer physical books over audio books or e-books, but that's purely bc of my personal preference. I like the feeling of having a real book in my hands, turning the pages, being able to display the book on my shelves, etc. Trying to read a book digitally makes me bored, and with audio books, the narrator reads it differently than how I would read it. But physical books are in no way superior. A book is a book no matter the medium.
As someone who works at a Barnes & Noble I have one of the most baffling conversations on the regular because of booktok. People come in and say that they just read "sample title" book series and then they ask for a recommendation for something similar... So I list a couple of recommendations for them and walk them over to the area and point out the books I'm talking about and then with alarming regularity a variation of the sentence comes out their mouth. " I'm not going to read that. It's not on booktok" I'm not saying booktok itself is bad and I'm just happy to see so many people reading but there is something to be said about how some people won't read a book just simply because it's not on tiktok.
This is gonna sound like a 2012 “and everyone clapped” type tumblr post but I swear it’s true: I was a sophomore in 2013 and was reading smutty fanfic in geometry class after I finished my work. My teacher was going after the class and saw me reading while other girls were texting/on Facebook and said “see, you guys should be reading like Karina”. It was a great ego boost for my “not like other girls” persona but I also felt like I was cheating the system by getting away with it
Never been so goddamn early. Anyways, booktok is interesting to me. It only ever shows up to me in regards to how people label their book, specifically showing off how many of the pink tabs they have. Iykyk. Some of them are surprisingly very passionate about their spicy books. And on the other hand, you have the wholesome, straight to the point book recommendations. And then you have the general dysphoria of self-publishing/marketing. Frankly, I never know which side of booktok I’m truly on.
I only buy books new if I really like the author, otherwise I can’t justify the $20+ price tags on most books. The majority of my book shelves are full of books from Goodwill and the dollar store 😂 thrift store books are amazing though, I’ve stumbled across a bunch of signed books or books with cute little messages to friends/family/partners.
I am so glad you talked about the hoarding on book tok... the overconsumption on book tok is wild. There are so many people doing hauls and admitting that they are buy a lot more books that they can read. I think that books are an investment and I don't think buying new or used books is inherently bad. But when you are buying twice as many books as you can possibly read that is a bit of an issue.
The problem is that when you buy them you genuenly plsnnon reading them. Of course I now buy most books on ebook or audiobook first before buying paper to at least filter out books I end up not liking, or just not reading for whatever reason.
It's pretty interesting that this Chad fella is so mad about women being open about an interest in something purposefully sexual as if cis dudes aren't constantly talking about cranking their hogs to all sorts of stuff that wasn't intended for that. But it's also intensely unsurprising, considering men have been mad about women having sexual agency since ancient times and there's something about that that probably comes from some long, long outdated idea that women aren't supposed to have erotic pleasure (or pleasure in general, considering how even innocent interests that are seen as feminine get constantly shit on until men decide they want to get in on it and then women get mocked and gatekeeped for doing a mens thing.)
Pet peeve- there is a difference between hoarding and collecting. 😢 hoarding is absolute chaos shop and dumps 😊collecting is curated, cared for, dragonesqe gold piles
Re: hoarding - I’ve got a huge book collection but it mostly came from my local thrift store which always has tons of popular books for $1-3. So I don’t feel guilty about the money I’ve spent, especially because my books bring me so much joy. But I also use my local library for new releases I really want you read if I can’t thrift a book because I’m not spending $25 on a new book lol
9:41 my friend works at a book publishing house, and this is what they do specifically. Apparently they have a whole team to explore Instagram, TH-cam, and TikTok to find influencers representing a topic the publishing company wants to do and ask them if they want to write a book on that topic. The bigger the platform they have, the better
I work at Target and I’m in charge of the book section there, and a few weeks ago we started selling Ice Planet Barbarians too. I had to do a double take when I put up the display haha
Honest to god I've listened to 2 recommendations for booktok (things have gotten worse since we last spoke & verity), never have I been more inspired to write my novels because those were absolutely awful. It's been a while since I've been so dissatisfied by a book, and if I see a booktok featuring either one, I know immediately that they are not to be trusted.
most of their recommendations are like mid at BEST! decided to just look for books on my own based on personal interests rather than take any recs from them LOL
I know of zero spicy books that have contributed to human trafficking. If you don't buy ethical porn, the people you are watching might not be there voluntarily.
Chad's point about "You never see guys doing this" is the dumbest thing I've heard. As if guys don't rank their "hottest" adult stars, fictional characters, etc etc CONSTANTLY. But anyways, good vid as usual :)
i've never understood why some of my male freiends or just other men in general had to assume a woman i was hanging out with was someone i was trying to have sex with. i can't just be friends with a woman? i've had and have plenty of female friends throughout my life and they truly are just my friends and that's how i looked at them. i've even had women thinking i was hitting on them when i was simply just having conversation.
I've always had mixed feelings about booktok (as well as booktube). I think it's great that it is primarily a female lead community, but it's also worth discussing that it is a very white community. This may sound a little bit harsh but I think it also sort of...hypes up the most mediocre white authors. Especially spicy tiktok. Which is fine, I guess, if your only there for the smut? Also, another thing I noticed is that while fanfiction is becoming more mainstream and actually being published, it's usually white and straight. Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, After, and perhaps the Love Hypothesis are all examples of this. It's just odd that I've always perceived fanfiction as a queer space, especially nowadays, but it's not the queer authors or the queer stories that are getting published and it just...rubs me the wrong way.
“Booktok has a big problem with misrepresenting books” - that’s it. You’ve described booktok perfectly.
@Y/N LIZARD not really. Tiktok is short form content so it’s a lot easier to misrepresent something there than it is with a longer form TH-cam video.
once i saw someone say song of achilles had smut but iirc the only smut like scene was straight up sexual assault. it feels weird to me to call SA smut and kinda misleading. i can’t say this for sure though because when i realized what was gonna happen i skipped until i saw it ended
edit: some replies to me said there was no sa so maybe i'm misremembering???? but i remember a scene where a woman tries to sleep with a man even though he says he doesn't want to. anyways the reply also says there are some semi explicit scenes but not too many just wanna correct it
EVERY single time i read a book solely recommended by booktok (not also recommended by friends/influencers i like) i end up disappointed. if they’re not straight up bad, they’re not what people sold them for
@@mentallyunstable1926 it has like some implied smut between Achilles and Patroclus here and there but the only semi-explicit scene it shows is between Patroclus and that girl Achilles got pregnant and even then it's not even that explicit or between the two main characters
As someone who avoids explicit stuff in my books I’ve found TikTok mostly over/under exaggerates. I saw dozens of videos recommending Red, White and Royal Blue and not a single one gave me an accurate idea of what the books like.
as a tumblr user, “i heard they were trying to hold a booktokcon” is horrifying news
Break out the ball pit!
Dashcon 2: electric bogaloo
DASHCON TWOOOOO LETSSDD GOOOOOOOO
Extra hour in the book pit!
Me: (gets Dashcon flashbacks) *shivers*
I think one of the biggest issues with BookTok is that the opinions of “this is a good piece of literature” and “I really like this book” get conflated to mean exactly the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with liking what you like (sometimes tumblr imagines are better than published books) but nearly every book I got from BookTok has felt like false advertising on so many levels.
that's a problem all around, today i read people equating "why low rise jean contribute to E.D" with "canceling low rise jeans" and here, i heard someone equating racism to stealing something to another artist (mainly something common in the industry) people seem to be unable to differentiate thing
This is relatable to the Warriors community, lol. I know the books are badly written messes, but I still enjoy them. But i'm not gonna pretend that they're literature masterpieces.
But see that’s the thing, “a good piece of literature” and “a book I like” are BOTH subjective. Most books recommended by book tok aren’t for me as I’m not a huge romance reader. But just because I don’t like a certain book or genre doesn’t mean it’s a lie or misrepresentation, it just means it doesn’t fit into my tastes. No one is lying when they recommend a book they love. Les Miserables is considered a great piece of literature by many, but to me that book is unconscionably long and if it were published today and not considered a classic, people would be complaining left and right that it needs an editor. Great literature and good books are subjective. I’m just happy people are reading.
@@hXbradshaw that’s fair, I was more directing this at some of the books that are popular on booktok that were written by people who refuse an editor or try to pump out as much content onto Amazon as possible. Again, nothing wrong with liking and writing that stuff (I love it sometimes!) but it is cult like in the way that you’re like “everyone liked this? I paid good money for this? But it’s awful why does everyone else like it I must be the only one who sees something wrong with it.”
@@hXbradshaw Les Miserables is considerably long because its too descriptive the book is when it comes to setting up the scenes and the location all. Also just going to point out that Les Miserables is pointing out a bunch of issues at the time. And literature back then was more for spreading a certain message than maybe quality also another issue of Les Miserables is the relationship of Marius and Cosette (probably because Valjean keeps sheltering Cosette but still) Eponine and Marius also gets more expounded which isn't a good thing.
I'd say some books are too short too eg: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde that needs to be expounded.
The referring to anything remotely sexual as "spicy" is one of the things that gen alpha is going to mock gen z for in ten years
It's one of those sensor words that just became trendy like unalived
interesting how i have only seen the opposite. Books that actually have spice are being advertised as sfw books, which they actually arent
anybody remember lemons 😂
Ah the good ol' citrus scale
Don't like don't read
@@localtownwitch and limes! 😂
I feel like current Booktok is capturing a lot of fanfiction reading audiences - so much fanfic terminology and trends now became attached to discussing romance books on Tiktok in the capacity I've never seen on Booktube.
THIS!!! I think it might also be because so many of these romance books that are getting popular there were originally fanfics or were written by authors who used to write them. All year ppl recommended the Love Hypothesis but it used to be a Reylo fanfic.
YESSSS
@@jackb3982 a very transparent Reylo fanfic I might add. The guy is literally called Adam. It's basically impossible not to picture Adam Driver when you read it
yes it took me some time to get use to the terms "mlm and wlw" to me it always had been "mm, mfm, mf, ff" when we were talking about romance or erotic books.
@@A1_Deb I'd say mlm and wlw is more of a fandom term (examples like anime, manga, kdrama). Half of the fanfic community is ao3 readers so a lot of them use the terms fm,mm,ff since those are the tags on the site themselves.
I worked at Barnes and noble and the amount of young girls reading abusive romance books is insane. A lot of abusive romance books end up on the booktok table
Yikes...
It's concerning, right?
And it doesn’t set them up for good relationships. What books have you seen them getting?
@@macymiller8743 things like punk 57, or November 9
What would you like to see in a romance book?
BookTok is so funny to me cuz it’s just 3-5 years behind BookTube. Everything they are raving about was all the rage on BookTube but eventually those readers matured both in literal age but also reading tastes and realized maybe some of those books weren’t all that great and maybe even problematic at times. Ultimately if somethings getting people reading then I’m happy but I do hope this Colleen Hoover obsession ends soon
100% to all of this🙌🏻 Colleen Hoover’s books (particularly for YA) are so problematic and it shocks me that she is still so popular.
I was gonna comment something like this. I absolutley agree
I read one colleen hoover series (3 books) when i was younger and went on to read another one for shits and giggles and it was literally exactly the same except the characters had different names lol.💀
As someone who has been in Booktube for 8 years and now makes videos on booktok, you are absolutely correct
Agreed
every side of tiktok is speedrunning all the phases and dramas the other socials have already gone through, it’s like a pandemonium of internet history repeating itself
its kind of fascinating to watch, like you said they're basically speedrunning the internet
Yeah tiktok is probably just reexperiencing everything again
My God this is so true..
THIS. like we've gone through all of this before, on tumblr in 2012
I'm waiting for the point where TikTok reaches the end of the internet where the others sm apps are at. My bet is a lot of people will jump ship for it being too boring/basic.
I find it very hypocritical for a man to be saying that it's weird when women talk about erotica, when you see so much sexualisation of women everywhere in order to cater to men, even in very mainstream media. But ofc, if it's the women doing the same thing, then it's weird.
Yeah so boys can loudly talk about porn but women can't huh
@@ti9372 Honestly the wording of this comment kinda answers it for me. For dudes, talking ab porn isn't really something we do often. You also said it yourself boys talk ab porn. It's considered immature and even when grown dudes talk ab porn it's usually as an immature joke. I don't think most guys would care what a woman does with her own time and energy but at least that's the position I'd assume most dudes are coming from. Hope this helps a bit.
@@IshPPG Really?? A bunch of guys don’t talk about a movie Charlize Theron is in, and the convo doesn’t revolve around how hot she is, or what tiny rags she wore, etc etc? Because I’ve heard those conversations. Or gamer dudes talking about how the female characters look, what they’d like to do with them, etc etc? Because I’ve heard those convos too. It seems like men talk about sex and sexual attractiveness very freely in most social situations. But when women do it it’s weird?
@@kata7628 I think what he means is it's seen as immature to talk about it very long, like a teenage boy thing to do, or like very immature guys (not @ gamers, but I've met a lot of gamers who are immature dudes) which...I kinda get, idk like I feel like teenage to college age that kind of loud and out talk is the thing but then midtwenties a lot of guys still do it but not like have full conversations deticated just to porn or legs or what they find hot like it's more in passing
Kinda like a guy I saw once who said his girlfriend told her friends in detail about his body and how he is in bed and she went "well I know guys do they same all the time what's the big deal when I do?" And he went "We don't, or at least I don't. I have never described your body or our sex life to my friends. I mean we might talk about a one night stand a few years ago but like hell I'd talk about my girlfriend like that"
Like I know it's not every guy/man out there but growing up with primarily dudes (mom out the picture) I always got the feeling that the porn and lockerroom talk was only like a certain type of guy where it was really bad
Though that may also just be the asexual in me lol, so I'm seeing all the sex talk a different way. But I've seen and heard my guy friends get tired of dudes who talk about porn all the times
@@IshPPG I’m sorry I thought the wording was clear, I was mostly joking…I used the words girls and boys because when I was younger it was socially acceptable for boys to talk about porn but girls reading fan fiction and stuff was not, now that’s not like, an important issue but the dude’s argument seemed to be rooted in the idea that women shouldn’t express sexuality and that’s just reminiscent of that. I went to a mostly male high school and up until 3rd year (16-17) it went this way, now all my guy friends don’t do that anymore cuz we’re adults, but still. Also consider that neither of our experiences are universal but when it comes to your statement that majority guys don’t give a shit about a woman’s business I actually agree because I know none of my friends do and neither do the men in my family. Still I face an exhausting amount of discrimination, sucks.
I used to work in a nursery and so many parents would get _really_ bothered by their son playing with girls. These were three-year-olds, bare in mind. I feel like a lot of straight men (which I am not) never learn to relate to girls or women as people.
Damn that's depressing
I see the same behavior in many women though, as they tend to project their own worst traits onto men and vice versa. Plenty of men have no clue what women seek in a partner for example, but often times the same is true of women. I think the main difference is that because straight women don't date other women, it's hard for them to recognize that behavior in themselves -- if it is there -- whereas so many women voice their grievances about men's behavior online that plenty of men are keenly aware of how dissatisfied many straight women are with men. But, in my experience, fewer men openly condemn women in general for that sort of thing.
@@sweetembrace6706 the hypocrisy in this comment is astounding.
@@ArvelDreth dude, you're just wrong. you don't understand. the way men treat women does not compare to the way women treat men. please go do some research, or look out into the world at all. if some woman hurt you, that's valid and I'm sorry, but it's no where near the same thing as global systemic misogyny and patriarchy
@@ArvelDreth I mean, sure, by definition I'd make logical sense for sexism to be done against males and one would be able to find specific examples on the internet. With that said, I think we're forgetting that there has been a much more tangible pejorative view toward women over time until REALLY recently (i.e., in the 00s where women were said to speak more, and that being seen as annoying, despite this being disproven) that still hold true to this day in some places of the world (primarily theocracies); this doesn't disregard prejudice against typically known "male behaviors", but does imply that the frequency in which this has occured has only begun recently.
I don't know much about dating, which was the core of your argument, but it did seem pretty out of left field given that the OP was talking about kids playing with each other. Expanding on that, anecdotally, I percieve that as a girl it was more insentivised for me to partake in traditionally "male" hobbies (videogames, nerf guns, math, debate, sports, etc.) while my more "feminine" interests were scrutinized (mostly makeup). However, I was still allowed to have relatively balanced interests as supposed to my brother since it'd have been unthinkable for him to engage with me over "feminine" things whilst I was still expected to bond with him over minecraft or smth. This has made me reach the conclusion that, at least for me, it seems more acceptable for girls to admire "male dominating" fields than boys w feminine ones; still, with always a slight distate over feminine things overall (i.e., sydnsap making hentai revies = okay, but girls gushing over smut on tiktok is seen as weird)
That was great marketing Barnes and Noble, if i saw a display with a sign that said "books Chad doesn't want you to read" i would absolutely stop and buy it.
Same I actually laughed out loud when Amanda said that part. That is actual brilliant meme-ing.
It’s fantastic and would work for me too! Maybe if they just don’t use the person’s likeness it’ll be doable
Even out of context (I had no idea this was a thing until watching this video) I would totally stop and look at that display.
I'm not really into smut, but I would totally stop and look at the display, and laugh
Good marketing but also kind of messed up that a massive corporation just co-opted an internet hate campaign against some random guy. Yes the dude took it upon himself to post his shitty opinions publicly but I don't think he did so thinking he would used in a marketing campaign. A few other instances of this have popped up stemming from tiktok specifically and it is frightening that they were able to use his image directly without his consent. Imagine finding out that a pic you posted on insta or somewhere was being used by some company to advertise a product you had no part in.
I feel like booktok is heavily driven by the aesthetics of the book. They go hard on what tropes are present, but nat as hard on the book as a whole. And tropes are important but I can have a book with my favorite tropes and still find it being a hot piece of garbage. They really hammer down quick boom this is in the book which doesn't allow for the much more in depth look at books that booktube gets.
right????? describing things using tropes isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but without the plot i won’t want to read it. if it’s a trope i’m specifically looking for i’ll add it to my list and search up the plot myself, but i rarely see someone actually describe a plot. like you said booktube goes more in depth on the book but i’ve also noticed if people on tiktok review something they never really explain why they gave it that review. peoples rating systems for stars are very different from each other so i’m skeptical to trust just the stars itself.
Wow, you're 100% right. I never thought about it this way.
Book Tok being as powerful as Oprah is honestly insane and it certainly is.
More powerful these days. No one is coming in asking for the book they saw on Oprah anymore. Book they saw on tiktok? Yeah, every day.
@@kristavaillancourt6313 Yea.
Their power levels do not match.
I think it's more powerful on a global scale because as a European: what is Oprah's book club? Maybe I'm just not the demographic and it's known here, too.
no it definitely is, tiktok is accessible all over the globe and absolutely no one has heard of oprah here where i live. but oh, booktok? man, the amount of people with tiktok book collections.
I'm bisexual and I always found straight relationships where both parties don't like any of their interests baffling. I wouldn't date someone just for sex and then be expected to sit through things I didn't enjoy or vice versa.
@@sweetembrace6706 There is a difference between not enjoying mutual hobbies and outright hating everything your significant other enjoys which is more of what I meant. Also I'm single af and have no idea how to be in a healthy relationship so my comments are irrelevant and purely anecdotal.
Dont act like we are some aliens 😂 gtfo
Just saying any relationship can be like that.
Try bestiality.
@GreenMayoMan69_as a bisexual I agree with them, I’ve met so many Bi’s or lesbians who straight up hate each others hobbies or won’t support each others hobbies - but somehow think they can last a long time 😭
1000% Booktok holds the power of Oprah's book club, but I much prefer that they just go on a table with a sign that says "TikTok Books" than a "sticker" that is PRINTED onto the book and ruins the cover like Oprah or Reese's book clubs
Yes! It’s so annoying to see stuff on the covers, knowing I’m a coward who won’t rip it off out of fear of damaging the cover
My local b and b actually has a table named that
I dont understand the sticker on covers it also ruins the covers
@@Poopie_buttholelickeresquirejr use a blow dryer on them!
@@Username0467 does that really work? is it the heat to take it off??
THANK YOU for talking about going in debt for books! it boggles me that 16-18 yr old booktokers have collections as big as mine, a 27 yr old grown ass woman with a master's degree in literature.
Ikr! I'm actually planning on making my own BookTok account in a few months when my exams are over but I'll be sure to make the backgrounds for my videos just like a wall with posters or some plants to the side or something. I straight up can't afford a wall of books the other BookTokers my age have.
Clearly the answer is a fake background that is a giant filled bookshelf xD realistic looking wallpaper :3 I'm joking of course, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone actually did that
You realize that they're working jobs and usually don't have to pay bills or anything really? So they have money to spend
Most of my book collection came from when I was 16-18, because I worked and didn’t have bills. I would put 50% of my check into savings, 10% into emergency savings, and spend the other 40% on books. I’m now a 27 year old working on gaining an MLS, and last year I think I bought like 10 books total, because as a 27 year old in college, I have a lot less money I can spend on books than I did when I was a teenager.
Most of my newer collection are gifts. My husband gets me books for birthdays, anniversaries, and Christmases, as do a handful of my friends. Heck we’re doing secret santa at work this year and everyone told me that I’m the easiest to get for because they can just get me a $20 gift card to B&N.
Hoarding in Booktok deserves its own video. Like, seriously.... the amount of books they often have just for backgrounds is scary
There's one video I remember seeing of a lady setting up these new gorgeous bookshelves (like she built bookshelves), and people were so mad in the comments that she didn't have enough books to fill them up?!?! The culture of owning books just to look like you own books is huge on booktok
@@jeancolley8908 agreed! that's just excessive
@@jeancolley8908 i feel like that is such a human thing for so many centuries 😭 we are always trying to prove how cool and learned we are through material things
Whenever I see someone's got massive shelves like that, all I think is that person better hope they're never gonna have to move house lol.
@@sweetpeabee4983 if you know booktuber Jack Edwards, he did a whole thing about moving his bookshelf out of his apartment, and I believe six months later-ish he still has his collection in boxes on lile five different places. It's fascinating, that has to be close to a ton of books! But yeah, it's.... A whole thing
I’m shocked that you managed to make this video without mentioning Sarah J. Maas and her chokehold on booktok
Really! Both of my best friends are OBSESSED with the ACOTAR series. I *tried* reading the series and HATED basically all the charaters. Nothing is explained, nothing makes since, and abuse is just brushed away as "being needed at the moment" or "becuase he loved her".
They've told me it gets better towards the end, I said I wasn't going to be reading 600-800+ pages for there to be some sort of payoff.
@@rosechapman2796 As someone who read the first 3 books and the novella (haven’t read the silver flames one) I’d say the first book is the worst one. For the first 300 pages nothing happens and then she randomly adds action sequences in Evil fae lady’s mountain while simultaneously being violated by Rhysand. I think it would’ve been better if Feyre was kidnapped by that Amanda woman at the beginning of the book and spends the book trying to escape. That would’ve been a better spent 400 pages.
@@jacklemm1518 Absolutely. That has so much more potential then what was given to us.
@@jacklemm1518 "Amanda"
I'm dying that was hilarious
@@rosechapman2796 also can we talk about how Maas is a low key pedo with a pregnancy kink and writes that in for no reason when theres better plots than pregnancy? chapter 22 of ACOFAS she has Rhysand literally orgasm to the "picture" feyre was sending in his mind of his CHILD
god Chad's comment about how men don't holler about their spicy videos is pretty funny actually, because there's entire communities online dedicated to men hollering about their stuff. entire stores for their stuff, even!
Anyone remember American Pie ?! Because I remember when everyone was talking about and I remember my best friend complaining all the time any reference gets brought up about how they were forced by their brothers to watch ALL OF THEM.
fr like they openly wear pornhub shirts and hats, they'll stick naked women on their cars, it's always in our faces one way or another .
Almost all of male Reddit😭😭
It’s such a shame that The Song of Achilles is now lacquered as a TikTok book when it’s significantly better than any of the books mentioned in the video.. It’s critically acclaimed too 😭
RIGHT i started reading it before I knew it was a "tiktok book" and i was shocked to find out a book that good is associated with colleen fucking hoover fans
I found the book through a cosplayer on TikTok’s page and I admit I was wary at first but I bought it because I liked the premise. I absolutely loved the book and I went on to read the author’s next book Circe. It’s honestly so beautiful and doesn’t deserve book tok.
any book by TJR too tbh
I'd say that books is okay at best. Either love or hate it sorta book. However the other book, Circe, which I got to know cause I read TSoA is the best one
tbh, I picked it up because it was so popular on booktok and wanted to see what the hype was about. I expected it to be bad and it turned out to be so much worse than I thought… people have different tastes, just because something is on booktok doesn’t automatically make it good or bad for everyone. I found books like The Lies of Locke Lamora and Flowers for Algernon on booktok and they became instant favorites. so bottomline, take everything there with a grain of salt, but don’t dismiss it outright because it’s there…
"Do men even like women?" honestly most valid question in human history.
reminds me of contrapoints coming out video where she talks about how straight people are always hating on each other lmao
Same energy as men saying women just want something to nag at 🙄
Um no, the “energy” in question would be misogyny.
@@bemodreamy Yes, and the equivalent would be misandry. Same energy.
@@flayrekapperz7862 sure whatever 😄
First, if you enjoyed Ruby Dixon but want less Breeder/Pregnancy kink, her other series like Corsairs have the same cinnamon roll giant blue aliens but they're space pirates and a lot less breeding. I'm not a big fan of her IPB stuff, but I have really enjoyed the other series in that universe I've read.
Also, romance doesn't just sell well. It is the best-selling genre of fiction. Romance books earn $1.44 billion per year, while the second-best-selling genre is only $728 million per year. Romance books support the rest of the fiction industry.
I think that calling romance the same as porn is like calling any rated R-rated movie "porn." With the exception of erotica, most romance is a storyline first, smut second. Especially a lot of traditionally published romance has as many sex scenes as the average blockbuster movie with nudity. And the sex in romance books is actually plot-relevant. The people walking around acting like reading the Love Hypothesis is akin to watching a porno in public never have anything to say about the random sex scenes in so many movies. Even the most erotic novel tends to have more plot than a porno. So why can the "Chads" of the world talk about American Pie and Eurotrip in public without being accused of being loud and proud about watching porn?
Right? And visual porn is a lot more traumatic for a child to glance on than a book or ebook where you’d have to be real close and personal to figure out it’s smut
I really liked the eu of Ruby Dixon as well. Loved the lore behind thr different alien species and liked the fact that not everyone fell in love just because a parasite chose them lol. Plus kindle unlimited I has suggested some really good series from these books, so much so I have been thinking of starting a TH-cam channel just so I can talk about them lol.
Oooh gonna look into that series ty
Just to play devils advocate for sec, shouldn't it be mentioned that to see those R rated movies you have to be 17 to get in the theater? Like they aren't broadcasting them in times square for the world to see or something. I honestly agree that smut is no where near porn, it just seems like a lot of young impressionable people are being exposed to very specific sexual fantasies that are not usually common in the average relationship. Just like porn gives lots of men exaggerated expectations of sex, I think it is possible smut may do the same at times for young women. The idea that reading smut in public is inappropriate is ridiculous but I do think there is a discussion to be had in terms of its media impact.
@@lastchancestudiosllc I see where you’re coming from. Most romance isn’t “very specific sexual fantasies,” though. Most romance books specifically label in the description if they are anything beyond the same usual vanilla that you can see in movie or even on TV if no nipples or private are showing. And if someone under 17 is reading adult romance, they can just as easily be reading or watching sexually explicit content online or elsewhere. Reading a book is more like watching a movie at home. An R rated movie might be ID for 17+ in theater but at home or elsewhere it’s up to the parents to step in if they don’t want them watching it. And kids will find ways to watch it anyway. It’s the same with reading.
Plus, I’m not sure how many romance books you’ve read, but there’s not much unhealthy expectations about sex in them generally. Other than the occasional P hitting a cervix or multiple Os without the accompanying over sensitivity or in an unrealistic time frame. But those things are brought up and mentioned a ton in romance communities and reviews. So chances are teen readers would be seeing that too.
But I think, in general, romance books are actually helpful for setting expectations for young readers. So much about sex, especially sex when you’re young, focuses on the enjoyment of the one with the P. Romance books can be one of the first places that a young reader with a V will see that they can and should enjoy it too. It’s also common in romances that the character with a V can’t O from penetration alone and needs C stimulation. Something that is true for a lot of the population but isn’t always widely discussed.
I also want to say I don’t think porn is inherently bad either. I don’t think romance books are the same as porn but I also don’t have a problem with porn in general. I think if you’re old enough to view it ( even if you aren’t 18+) you can also view it responsibly. Just like some romance books, there’s porn that can perpetuate harmful ideals and expectations. In both cases if the consumer uses their best judgement and approaches it mindfully, there’s no reason it has to be a bad. I think everyone’s first time can be awkward, but going in with some idea of how it works and what feels good can make it more enjoyable.
As a man I can only speak for myself when I say I like women. I couldn't care less if women read erotica and talk about it. I think it's funny how men get upset about women doing things that we pretty much do.
Like some men got upset about that WAP song while listening to the same type of music but from men. I even believed in this double standard when I young. The difference now is that I grew up. Some of these men on TikTok haven't.
Ps: WAP is a hilarious gem.
out of curiosity - do you talk about the smut you like with your man friends?
o7
@@katherinec4360 Not the original commenter but I do. It's definitely not something you do with everyone. Like, I talk about it with only some of my close friends. People have different sensibilities and you have to cater to those.
@@katherinec4360 Not a lot but it's definitely not frowned upon.
@@katherinec4360 the only people I share any of my NSFW interests with is usually women, as they seem to want to talk about it much more than any of my guy friends. My male friends are usually talking about their hobbies, lives, general thoughts, politics etc. Whereas my female friends either just share memes, talk about their friends, or talk about smut. I don't hold either tendency above the other though; I enjoy both for different reasons and am happy to listen to my friends talk about most things.
I do think there's also an interesting conversation to be had about the fact that a lot of written erotica is targeted towards women and their fantasies and as a result, we see women reading porn that differs from free pornhub porn anyway. There tends to be an emphasis on romance and emotional connection in these novels and v.s. just sex. It's interesting to me then that Chad makes it out to be 'just' porn - I'm sure some of them are - but as an avid reader of historical romance porn it's generally 70% plot and relationship drama and 30% sex.
Now I'm not saying there's anything wrong in porn without plot BUT the books that Chad has targeted are not that and I guess the conversation I'm eager to have is this idea that the spicy books these people are talking about serve an erotic purpose that really resonates with a large portion of people. What's wrong with discussing that?
Hi Georgia! I would love to know if you have any historical romance recommendations?
So many! I love anything by Courtney Milan (big recommendation is The Brothers Sinister Series which starts with the novella The Governess Affair). Tessa Dare has so many amazing series but I personally recommend her Castles Ever After series which sounds like absolute chat in terms of a title for a series but are genuinely delightful (the first book is Romancing the Duke). Tessa Dare's Girl Meets Duke series, starting with the novel The Duchess Deal is equally delightful. I've also been into Mary Balogh lately, she's very prolific and can err on the side of Austen-y at times but is lovely.
My garbage recommendation is Elizabeth Hoyt. Now I'm not saying she's a garbage writer but Dare and Milan have quite feminist and considerate characters in the majority of their books and Hoyt does not always have that BUT they are sexy and often intriguing novels. She has a HUMUNGO series of books that just go on and on with different protagonists that are all somewhat connected and I did not read them in order but that was fine. Top picks are Scandalous Desires, Thief of Shadows and Dearest Rogue.
I hate Eloisa James and no I will not elaborate. If you value your time, don't read her novels.
Also its a way to consume porn in a way that doesn’t put women in risk since they are fictional
True as a historical romance reader myself - I hate having the preconceived notion of what I'm reading is just erotica.I'd have to explain that it isn't just that - it's about relationships, family, friendship etc. But then again whether erotica or not - people have to learn to not shame others for liking what they like. My family although in a joking manner jokes about my historical romance books but that also makes it harder for me (and this could be the same for others) to really enjoy books I enjoy around when my family with the notion that they'll joke about it.
@@georgiamatthews6346 as a historical romance reader myself, game recognizes game you have great taste. The Brother's Sinister series is one of the all time greats (Violet & Sebastian forever
Seeing Ice Planet Barbarians on a table the last time I went to Barnes and Noble gave me the biggest feeling of shock. Because the first time I had heard of it, it was literally only available on Kindle/in ebook format. I never expected to see it just casually sitting there in a popular book store
I found a copy in my local Walmart and keep putting off reading it
I saw it and physically laughed out loud when I saw it
As a bookseller It like
Pained me to put that book on the table near YA 🤣
As a relatively new member of the online book readers, can I ask what is Ice Planet Barbarians?
@@sunflwrninja6945 watch Daniel greenes video on it
Its pregnancy kink smut
I love withcindy here on youtube because she always talks about how she never buys books and will either be gifted books or she checks them out at her local library. Idk if she has a tiktok but she's great too!
Cindy is amazing and Cari can read also borrows books as well.
I like creators who borrow books because it encourages people to be more conscious about what they buy.
Also libraries are quiet and a nice place to sit on a chair and read!
Most of my fyp is smuttok. I read a lot more now thanks to it - mostly just romance. My boyfriend doesnt read much but he always asks me to recap the book I'm into. He likes listening to my retellings. It feels like having a gossip session - without the emotional investment of having to sort out real life drama. Anyway it's a fun time.
This sincerely made me smile as I was reading it lol. Love that for you both (:
I love that you do this because I do the same thing with my husband. He loves letting me prattle on about whatever romance book I'm reading at the time. It satisfies my urge to gossip (which I really try not to do anymore for personal reasons) and it fulfills his want for me to pay attention to him. Good times all around!
I would love for someone to ask me to explain in detail whatever book I’m reading
Ooooh this is so wholesome :) I do the same but with movies from my childhood my boyfriend hasn't watched (he has watched VERY few movies as a kid). It feels like I get to yap about the characters and my judgements of them and the plot while he gets the privilege of knowing movies he's never watched.
Am male attracted to women. I personally adore women and my closest platonic friends are women. Then again, I regularly discuss things with the girls that’d make Chad’s hair fall out
the best kinds of guy pals are the ones with lots of female friends imo! lots of interesting convos to be had
2020 booktok: Ya novels, a lot of fantasy
2021 booktok: ✨smut✨
As an avid Booktube viewer I saw the same shift here too. I am now convinced YA Novels are the getaway drug to smut. I blame Sarah J. Maas.
@@ArturGlass.C booktok is just a younger version of booktube
As a fantasy fan, that makes me sad. I'm not against smut or anything. It's just not my thing and I'd rather get fantasy recommendations.
@@fanime1 I feel like there is different facets of booktok. Like I mostly get contemporary some fantacy manga and romance
oh god yes, only reason i liked booktok was that it recommended me fantasy, not all of it was good but some was that was ok. now, a year later, teenage girls are so obsessed with heterosexual sex-based, colleen hoover type, borderline abusive relationships that it hurts me. i don't really mind sex in contemporary novels but the obsession with abusive relationships,,, since its 2022 now i hope tiktok would branch out to stuff like lgbt novels, sci-fi or just urban fantasy.
The problem I have with booktok is that there aren't enough variations. I like smut. I just don't want to read them 24/7. They all recommend the same book for months. And then all of them move to the next book.
Booktok is very on brand with this generation as a whole. We want quick, fast suggestions and we move on too quickly. I don't like it at all personally. I want to see more fantasy books, or sci-fi, I love smut but I agree with you, it's not something I want to exclusively see. I don't have Tik Tok because I just dislike the app in general, but from what I've seen it's just a bit too much of the same thing.
@BooksToAshes It seems like the recommendations match the app. Don’t get me wrong. I love some fast fluff to read, but I need some hearty meals to go along with my snacks so to speak.
My problem is that it seems like these authors write the smut first and build a “story” around the scene after.
For example, I think that Priest book that was hugely popular could’ve been a great story (and great smut) if there was more substance to it. Maybe had some build up and internal conflict, but no it was just “oh hot woman. I throw away my relationship with my god/my job now.”
I would say that Chad's real problem is growing up in a religious conservative community where sex=shame. If you travel around some states like Utah for example you'll hear the exact same sentiment.
Even in conservative communities, men are still encouraged sexually. This prudishness only applies to women and that’s the issue
Yeah..Chad definitely revealed something about himself.
@@squashforsale8466 I think that’s more so cultural and the religion though, like he might just relate more to the religion and be like sex is bad
Huh that's pretty weird. When I was in a Catholic high school the most popular book among us was Fifty Shades of Grey and it was managed by a religious order ffs😂 As a Christian, I think it's pretty stupid that most of the people in this group treat sex like a demonic illusion from Satan or whatever, when in fact it is a gift from God when a man and a woman consummate their love in marriage. Sex isn't a bad thing, and usually the people who say it's bad are the most shady ones (and ironically one of these people said I'm a devil worshipper just because I wear eyeliner, black nails, and black clothing and I listen to Rock music despite being a Catholic😂). And oh, one more thing, he's probably one of those super extreme sects that demonizes cartoons or something.
So I am reading "Heartthrob" by carol dyhouse at the moment. For those who haven't read it, it's a straight history book discussing what women have found disreable through out the 20th/early21st century, the cultural context and the cultural reaction.
One thing that pops up again and again is men have a negative reaction to women finding a person or story desireable when the object of desire is not in line with ideals of masculinity at the time.
In other words, men get very uncomfortable when they realize that women, and not the men themselves, are the arbitrators of what is desirable in men. Which as a short fat woman, I sympathize. But in each case men will try to rip the object of desire down.
I think this is the big thing, women live in a society where we are constantly aware what men deem as attractive. So the reaction of women will be: the body positivity movement, dancing burlesque, reading smut/romance and being loud and proud of it.
No gronw men don't tend to talk about porn, but they don't have to, we already know what they find desireable. It's everywhere.
I'm sorry, did a MAN just say that a hypersexual woman is a RED FLAG???? Isn't that, like, the opposite of what men want??? That's hilarious
My solution: just be gay
@Thessalin that's EXACTLY what I was thinking. Its the paradox of wanting a woman who is pure for them but also wanting a woman who is experienced, but also wanting a woman with a low body count. Make up ya damn mind.
@@erinlindsey3 they believe in alternate realities :P
He probably don't like it when a woman actually consents without being pressured.
These dudes and the women they end up with must have terrible sex, its so sad.
I gotta say the weirdest part of spicy booktok for me is that growing up fanfic and ✨spicy✨ stuff was kept a secret except with the CLOSEST friend and it feels like whiplash to see it publicly praised. To a lesser extent seeing fanfic terms being used to describe published books like using ao3 tags, rlly helps me understand a book better tbh. (I enjoy it not being weird anymore just wild lol)
I've read many spicy fanfics in my time, a whole bunch of them while taking public transport and I still absolutely know how to act around other people.
I never get tired of pointing out how hypocritical it is to watch porn but then try to shame people for reading it.
Just a different medium. Let me enjoy things nothing weird or hypersexual about reading smut in your free time.
There is very much something weird about watching or reading porn in a public space.
There's literally study done that says men are visual creatures hence why most of them prefer porn and that women prefer emotions hence why we prefer these types of books, they have more emotion to them in all honesty. Also let's remember that porn is targeted towards men and erotica books usually towards women, especially as of lately. Men shaming women on liking these eroticas is just them saying "women shouldn't have a libido" like eff off
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 you have to remember that a lot of erotica is long form, drawn out storytelling that also has porny sex scenes. That person is very likely not reading the steamiest parts of the book when they're on the train. But if they are who gives a shit, its not remotely the same as having someones whole asshole and balls banging against each other visible on your screen.
@@thepinkestpigglet7529 no? Unless you're touching yourself while reading or getting yourself visibly turned on, i don't see how it's weird. If anyone's reading over my shoulder and they're shocked, it's their own problem for not minding their business in the first place 🤷♀️
@@sin3358 Men get shamed for there pornography use all the time. We are told we are sexually objectifying women and are misogynist for viewing porn. The men who criticize you for doing this are sick of being shamed by women for something that women do all the time. Its a double standard that you are supporting. Stop shaming men for objectifying and serializing women and men will stop shaming you when you do the exact same thing.
As an indie author, I was pretty excited about the marketing potential of booktok. Until I realized that nobody on booktok wants clean/sweet contemporary romance. Certain genres do, indeed, blow up really well on tiktok, but not every genre is going to succeed there. I was on there for a long time and really didn't find much of a market at all for romance that isn't steamy. So it's definitely not the best platform for any and every author. Fantasy, especially YA fantasy, and spicy romance seems to be the two genres that do best on tiktok in my experience.
Also, I'm really glad to hear that the Love Hypothesis isn't spicy, because I don't like spicy books, and I was assured by SEVERAL people that it wasn't spicy. So I bought it, and then immediately after I bought it, I started seeing it recommended in all these "spicy recs" tiktoks, and I was super disappointed. So I'm really glad to hear that it's been misrepresented. I was super excited about it when I thought it was a less spicy romance.
Hi, I know this is a year later but I’m actually looking for a sweet romance. I really struggle with reading smut (I’m ace) but I do want a fun romance between my darker reads. So could I get the title for your book to check it out?
Same for adventure and sci-fi and mystery
I wanna share my Sonic fanfic but I don’t think no one on TikTok would give a shit cause it’s not just romance like most fanfics but romance is the subplot
And the world is ending and there is shit about gaurdians and lore and it’s a AU but it won’t hurt to try!
@@libitouwen926 personally for me a sweet non-smut romance I enjoy is Elves of Lessa by K.M.Shea it's a set of currently three mostly-independent books (set in the same setting in a specific chronological order but you can read them in pretty much any order without getting too heavily spoiled) each one focusing on a single pairing and is mostly a combination of sweet romances with a hint of action/intrigue to spice things up. Smut and overall sexual references are practically non-existent, and although it's not the most groundbreaking work it's a sweet fun series that I personally enjoy.
@@libitouwen926 cass has her author page linked on her youtube challenge
I can’t read a romance without it having some smut personally. It’s okay for everyone to have different preferences tho
I think men like chad are the type who are incapable of being friends with women because they're constantly trying to sexualize them. They aren't interested in relationships with woman as people but only see them as objects to be obtained and then discarded. Also yes i do like women lol
I’m 30, and teachers were practically begging kids to get books in their hands when I was in school. Chad’s “spicy book girl” is 100% embellished, if not entirely fictional lmao.
Yeah in my school the teachers were begging the boys to read playboy and penthouse, it does not matter the content as long as there reading.
@@treeforged9097i disagree, the books being discussed here are perpetuating harmful rhetorics and have little to no value as literature. what's the point of reading books that are devoid of soul, morally controversial, and written poorly in the most objective sense?
@@blaiseywaiseyriot You don't disagree lmao, that was their point - treeforged was being sarcastic
"Brain go brr when brain buy books" honestly accurate summary
Honestly, considering how not only those types of men in general but also a lot of teenagers are super weird about women/femme people reading any type of smut, kudos to Amanda for defending this type of literature. It was actually a refreshing take after a week of hellish discourse on Twitter.
Then maybe don't spend a whole week immersing yourself in Twitter discourse? Lmfao
@@Jhfisibejoso8pkabrvo2is8 Discourse is better than an echo chamber. Critical thinking is not something expanded by being comfortable.
I am so happy I’m not on TikTok. I get to hear about the drama from Booktube, but I have no part in it. I do find it funny when BookTok discovers these mammoth books from 5+ years ago (like Song of Achilles).
OHH is that why Song of Achilles is a 12+ week wait on hold at my library despite not being a new release? Dang. Learn something new every day, thank you!
As a person who works in a library and is working towards their library degree, I find it funny if someone is against “spicy” books. Half of the books taken out are of that variety and most are from the older generation. Christian fiction is huge where I work, a more conservative part of Canada, which is essentially just spicy books with religion as the basis. Spicy books are just more sexual because we are more sexual as a society. They are the harlequin romance novels of the 21st century and no one should be ashamed or dissuaded from them. Reading is reading no matter the topic, it’s better to read spicy titles then not read at all! If a YA individual is enjoying the title, let them enjoy it because life long reading is important. Just my opinion.
I totally agree!!!
If you believe that then you have to stop shaming men for sexually objectifying women. You cannot shame a generation of men for there pornography use and encourage a generation of women for there erotica use. Its a sexist double standard and that is what this Chad guy is pointing out. If its ok for women to read erotic in public then it should be ok for men to watch pornography in public.
I read a lot of historical fiction as my main genre, and have had so many instances of being on the bus or out in public reading about the most atrocious war crimes imaginable, stuff that honestly makes me put down the book for a second to stop myself from sobbing or freaking out. I feel like that's more fucked up than reading some cozy spicy books, but idk if Chad would agree.
My favorite genre are classic english literature and crime thriller/horror I've definitely had meltdown due to books being tragic as fuck in a public places. I have pretended to be having a cold so many time in the past to avoid people having to ask me if I was okay.
I recently got into horror as a genre, and honestly, I feel more inappropriate to read that in public compared to smut - at least in a romance book, they're having a fun time, and not, you know, performing beheadings.
When that happens to me, I have a moment of "omg people do such horrid shit" and I take a sweeping look through the bus or whatever and in my mind I go "Guilty. Guilty. GUILTY. You are all GUILTY. NONE of you are free of sin." and I bet those poor people would be astonished at my doctrine until I compose myself.
I remember reading a come of age story with the ending making me cry at the end because it was so full of catharsis and I was just crying on a bus over a book for a solid 5 minutes
@@baconaxolotl What was the book?
I’m am seriously confused by Chads comment about hypersxual women. There has hardly a time when men have ever been called hypersxual. Maybe for flashing or wnking in public which you know are actual crimes, not silently reading a book but sure those women are hypersxual (there are exceptions like that episode of the office you mentioned but mostly not the case)
If someone likes reading "smut" who am I to say it's wrong? As a man, I see nothing wrong with men/women/whoever, reading erotic books. I think it's cool this group found something they enjoy and can share it together. Plus, it promotes more reading.
Fanfic has been doing smut mainstream for decades haha. Not a thing wrong with getting people reading
As a 'man attracted to women' who also likes to read fantasy and science fiction and fanfic, I think this 'Chad' is just another example of someone with a dumb opinion believing that everyone else also believes their dumb opinion and just isn't saying it. It seems to be a common attitude in conservative Christian communities.
And I don't think I need to add this, but I and all the men I know do see women as fantastic and beautiful and powerful and lovely, and also just people who deserve basic respect and decency.
Women are human beings they are just as varied and flawed as men are. There are a lot of women who are not powerful, not fantastic and not beautiful. Until you accept the dark side of women you will never treat them like full human beings. You only see them as pretty little decorations. If you do not understand the double standard here then you are lost. Men get shamed for talking about pornography and women never get shamed for there erotica. If you believed in equality you would be speaking out against women shaming men for there pornography usage or you would be joining the bandwagon and shaming women for there pornography use. You can't have it both ways.
amanda talking about books is my favourite intersection of 2 personal interests 😌💕
She's got a great personality.
As someone who avoids explicit stuff in my books I’ve found TikTok mostly over/under exaggerates
Some men don't like women. I suspect that Chad did know a girl in high school who probably made a scene for attention about reading smut in school or who got caught once and refused to back down about doing it again. What the stuck out to me is that he seemed to be pissed that 'the correction' he felt the girl in high school deserved was never applied to these other women who must have annoyed him with their loud and proud squealing over smut. They had never had that open acceptance of sexuality beat out of them, metaphorically speaking. He seems to have rigid definition of gender roles and doesn't like when women step out of them.
You’re right about the publishing industry being “weird” and adverse to change, as a writer who has had many (bad) experiences with “traditional” publishing. I also work in film, and I can say that film is far more diverse and there is a lot more room for creative freedom (which might be surprsing to hear). Publishing is FAR more elitist than the film industry, which is really saying something as film doesn’t exactly have a golden reputation regarding tolerance of “outsiders.” Regardless, Hollywood is dying and the rise of indie film and streaming is giving newer generations of filmmakers a new range of opportunities - while publishing, for some reason, still relies on vastly outdated concepts and business models.
Second hand book finds are the best finds. Library sales forever!
If English Booktok is this problematic, then Filipino Booktok is a cesspool of no returns. There's this smut series called the Possessive series and it is crazy popular in our country that every teenage girl has heard of it. It's originally from Wattpad so the cult it spawned is absolutely massive
I'm an American who's half pinoy and I wasn't even aware that filipinos had their own booktok
Same, I haven't heard of popular Filipino booktok.
Filipino Wattpader here and I have to agree. I basically finished the ps series when I was only 13! It's honestly concerning how many teens consumed that type of media, but I also can't blamed the author since she already gave her fair share of warning towards the beginning, the middle, and even at the end of the story.
They generally know what they're going into.
@@iasked9392 what
Was expecting this to be more about how book tok has become more toxic about certain books being great and you can't critique them or dog piling smaller accounts who speak against the"group think".
Instead I'm just pissed at Chad like leave them alone dude what is wrong with you?
I completely disagree with the idea that erotica is the same as porn. I think people can read a romance book that features erotica simply for the storyline, whereas it is unlikely someone is watching porn for any reason other than sexual pleasure.
Furthermore, I think porn has many problematic elements that is absent in erotica. Not that erotica can’t be problematic, but porn is very objectifying and has caused direct harm to women.
I think erotica has a different stigma from porn simply because it is predominately consumed by women.
Meh, erotica has pretty awful parts to it too. Romanticizes stuff it shouldn't, biggest one of them is toxic relationships
I agree 10000%
Just let people enjoy their porn.
So books dip into porn territory. I’ve read it, it’s bad. Romance and erotica are just supposed to be more than that.
@@AN-sm3vj Many erotic novels treat gay men and women of color vary poorly by sexuylizing them and using them as sex objects in there sexual fantasies. Since the rise of e readers most books are pirated so most authors do not make any money off of there work. That being said fan fiction erotic is vary common, and depicting actors from franchises doing sexual acts that they would never consent to doing is vary problematic. Real people read erotic and they get distorted ideas about relationships and they end up ruining relationships and fetishisizng certain people in the real world that does a lot of harm to themselves and others. Therefore erotica is a problem and it should not be dismissed just because women like it.
I just started buying books again and damn they're expensive. I wanted to buy some books at Barnes and noble but most were $20+ but way cheaper on Amazon. I used to get most of my books from the library only buy books from used bookstores. Most used bookstores closed though. Thank the gods for libraries.
I wish libraries had better outer-library loan system. It's awful to read series waiting a couple (or few!) weeks in between!
If you’re American you probably have a Half Price Books near you. I think Canada does as well? I’m not sure.
barnes and noble is doing a half off sale for most of their hardcover books
That's not expensive.
Yes! I often get annoyed by how consumption plays a big part in being considered a "true reader". Elitist as hell.
Thriftbooks is fantastic, I got 3 college textbooks for $13 total last semester, I'm always recommending it to people. The only reason I don't have a huge hoard of books is because I don't have a shelf to put them on after moving
Man the hoarding is real. I just did a huge decluttering and got rid of about 200 books, but I still have easily 1,000 or more left. Luckily I have avoided debt by buying mainly from my local thrift stores and utilizing my library for new releases, and then sometimes if I really really love a book I'll buy it new ^.^
I totally understand. I got rid of all my hard back books but I am still attached to the paper backs. I have an audible account now so I have been collecting them physically.
Jeez I can't even picture having more than 500 books. My collection is currently at 120 volumes and it took 7 years, besides, my bookshelf is running out of space already! Most of the stuff I read now are not so legal copies in my phone 😔 damn
~ suffers in 3rd world country where taxes for books are insane
Lol. Just tidied my Terry Pratchett repeats whilst spring cleaning, I had 54 books I gave away to local charity shops.
@@somethingunusual8456 stacks, running against the walls. Lol. Bookshelves are money that could be spect on more books ;)
Oh yeah, most of my books are thrifted and I’ve found a good few in free little libraries
People have a problem with porn because it regularly dehumanizes women. Smut just makes men nice and good looking lol
Exactly
Not the kind of smut I read, lol.
What is the problem?
I think there is still a layer of dehumanization occurring. Yes the subjects in smut aren't real people such as the ones often exploited in the adult film industry but the content of many books still instills incredibly warped expectations of sex and relationships. It is all a spectrum honestly and some smut reaches into areas that are probably detrimental for young impressionable readers to be consuming. The stuff that focusses on complex sexual power dynamics is so casually thrown around and I worry it gives people this expectation that those fantasies are common in every relationship. It could lead to people seeking out partners that may not truly be a healthy match for them.
Good looking is the only guarantee. _Good_ smut makes them decent people. Its kind of a gamble.
The pandemic has postponed or cancelled many cons and book fairs, so I've bought less books and had the time to organize my bookshelves, yet there's still stacks of books around the house! I really miss book fairs where I can go around and get recommendations from authors and random industry people, who latch onto one minute thing I happen to mention and find me a book I've never heard of, yet turns into my new favourite.
The criticisms of smut books as being the same as porn also ignores how many of these books are written from female perspectives and not perpetuating the violence towards women typically associated with live porn. People can safely engage with spicy material without needing it to be acted out by people that they might not identify with, or feeling the guilt that comes with consuming mainstream porn that actively upholds and relies upon damaging ideas about sex, relationships and body ideals.
For real.
I don't know if it's the same in the US, but here in Latin America, most of those books showcase a toxic protagonist that is misogynistic most of the time and treats women like garbage.
I don't think that stereotype should be seen as something else than toxic masculinity, but some girls idealize those type of men, thanks to those books.
@juanestebanmoralesquevedo7002 i think what op meant was, at least we dont have a visual representation of that relationship and dont have to wonder if the actress is okay
That's a good point. The consumers of these things arent that different but damage caused by them is very different.
The boys that have issues with this are the same boys who would make loud moaning sounds in the hallways at school. 😂
Booktok does have some power. I'm a librarian and have been an avid reader since I was younger but I have never seen the rise of reading in the younger generation so much until booktok came around. I will say its the same like....5 books that people tend to gravitate to... "It Ends With Us, The Song of Achilles, The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo, etc.) but hey if they're reading, they're reading and if it gets them to discover new books its fine by me.
Reading smut in public with a straight face is a skill, and one i've mastered.
Yeah guys do the same thing. Thats why women should not look at guys phones in public unless they want to see some real smut.
Same lmao
I grew up in a real cult and I find it challenging when people make comparisons like this.
I can definitely see how communities can get too insular and things with a mob mentality get out of hand.
But it’s very far from being a cult. The work I’ve had to do to recover from my cult experience is difficult and ongoing. I think it will always impact me.
So I wish we had a better word for that feeling of people are getting way too into this and not looking past the borders of this community enough
I was thinking about this too. Mob mentality is probably the best phrase because cults are way more detrimental than this.
Do you have the same issue if someone calls something a “cult classic”?
@@CircusoftheMoon No, I don't suppose that I do. Something to examine in myself.
@@Financiallyfreeauthor Just to clarify, I was mainly just curious, I promise no shade was intended by my question.
@@CircusoftheMoon Oh thank you for clarifying, I thought you were trying to "gotcha" me :) But that is a very interesting question. I need to think on why that doesn't elicit the same feeling
I love women. Idgaf what women read. I'm too busy minding my business to notice who reads what anyway. I'm just happy that people are reading and enjoying it. Besides I'd be lying if I said I never read "spicy" books and short stories. Snekguy is one of my fav smut authors.
It's because too many men still believe all women's purpose and the only thing interesting about us is their pleasure via sex. You don't know how many men don't like when women talk sexually about them because that means women are getting off but not for their pleasure but at their extent. AKA men don't like being treated like objects that's only for pleasure and not as a human being like they do to women.
@@mykaruest3620 That's an interesting thought. 🤔 I'll have to talk to some of the homies and see what they think about this. I figured most guys would either be flattered or not care if women objectify them for sexual gratification. Thanks for the insight.
@@TheKountdown I think it's mostly the highly conservative men who do this sort of thing actually. Because no one I know, and no one any of them knows, go about shaming women that way.
@@TheKountdown fresh and fit echo that sentiment all the time aaaaa. I'm glad that guys within my proximity are actually sane so that I don't go on generalizing men
As someone who read romance novels during the era of the "bodice ripper" covers, this feels very much like the same old story, just a different medium. Though it's a lot easier to find community now than it was then, so that's a plus, at least. Unfortunately "people getting mad about other people reading smut" is one of those constants that transcends all other generational differences.
True, even Anne Rice was writing it. The problem I have with a lot of booktok recommendations though isn't the 'spice' or 'smut' but the rest of the book. Physically and emotionally abusive relationships, Stalking, Incest and sexual assault are all written off as 'You just don't understand dark romance'. Maybe I don't but I understand it being marketed to kids and teenagers even less.
We already see the impact that porn has on how women are treated and what men think we want. The last thing we need is for the kind of behaviours in these books to become normalised. I don't have an issue with anyone's kinks as long as everything is... Key word-
(I'm talking to you Penelope Douglas, Colleen Hoover, HD Carlton) CONSENSUAL
Beautifully written
I love Thriftbooks especially when I’m looking for something that I don’t see in bookstores anymore. Like early 2010s or late 2000s YA books that I’ll randomly remember that even libraries don’t put out because they’re just not popular anymore. Or certain paperbacks from the 80s and 90s. Usually it helps fulfill a specific hyper fixation I’ll get that is no longer relevant in today’s world 😂
As someone who used to ID as a man, yeah a lot of them kinda genuinely don't like women. A lot do, of course, but there's a very loud fraction of men who just don't enjoy being around women
One of the funniest BookTok related statistics I found was finding out my BookTok account had a 96% female audience (for reference, I also make TikToks about Valorant/esports on a different account, which was 88% male and 12% female). I don't know what to take away from that but it certainly made me feel emotions!
Also I mean like yeah... I like women (as a guy). IDK though I'm just built different 😎
I don't have any set statistics, but as an active part of the booktube community once upon a time, that seems to be the demographic swing overall. For some reason both booktube and booktok, as a whole, are overwhelmingly female. It doesn't matter what genre, it's mostly women, and specifically ages 13-mid-twenties. For every one male booktuber there'd be about ten female booktubers, and the audience was just as skewed. Not really sure why it happens that way, but it's interesting to think about
@@allbymyshelf4125 I think that would make sense, I heard that in the 80s games were marketed mostly and aggressively at boys which might explain the skew nowadays (which is starting to erode thankfully) maybe in the case of books too it has to do with marketing?
@@kusalg idk, there seem to be ads for webtoon for women but that's about it. As for videogames, maybe genshin and light-novel inspired games have been slowly marketed toward women, which is great since video game literacy is cool
I didn’t need to bring smutty books to school, I was the one writing smut fanfic on the library computers at lunchtime during highschool 😂
"all those $24.99s add up"
Me, who thrifts many of my books that I don't get from the library: 👀👀👀👀
It would be interesting to hear you talk with Leena Norms about this topic since she used to be in the traditional publishing industry and you both have a vibe I enjoy.
To be honest anything that gets people reading is a good thing as far as literacy education goes. We're always taught to try to get kids engaged with a SSR book by having them self select something of interest. There's no reason this shouldn't be the case for adults too. I remember we were forced to read The Hobbit and I couldn't make head nor tail of it because fantasy is so boring to me but I remember what I was personally reading at the time in my personal life too and only one of those kept me enjoying reading 📚
@@AN-sm3vj yeah, I was reading tween girl novels like the clique and Princess diaries, which are not high literature but totally appealed to me at the age I was. The hobbit was a real slog to get through and even when I did read it the comprehension was lacking because I had little will to understand it as fantasy just wasn't my thing. Years later I did my degree in education and independent choice was very much emphasised to foster stronger literacy
And then there’s people like me who only really loved fantasy and couldn’t get enough of The Hobbit. There’s always another side of the same coin.
You trying to stifle your maniacal laughter is one of the few things getting me through 2022 so please don’t ever feel the need to edit that or puppy moments out regardless of what haters say.
The end of your video about hording is something Booktube talks about a lot. And this year one thing I saw was a lot of creators having goals to get a specific number or percentage from their local library. I really hope booktok ends up promoting the same thing!
"Do men like women?" is a great question - I often wonder that myself. Seeing how most men talk to/talk about women is a source of endless frustration and confusion for me, because the apparent answer is "no" based on their behavior. Being a father of three daughters has only added to my confusion and frustration, when I hear how men are still - STILL - dismissive of women's opinions and negative about their behavior, as if they have any say in the matter. It's just... UGH.
Speaking for myself, since high school I've found that I find being friends with women way easier and more comfortable than being friends with men. All of my most important relationships (most of which are not romantic at all) are with women.
My only semi-constructive answer is that I think many men value different things in their friends...it's not that they don't like women per se, but they often say and do things that they personally prefer in a friendship, and those things come off as dislike if you don't value those things. Mostly, it comes from being unwilling to listen...it's hard to show that you like someone if you don't hear and understand where they're coming from. For example, men think that their "advice" is helpful and useful, which is a positive for them. If women see it as belittling and insulting, they kind of just don't get why.
But really... I just don't know. I like women (as friends, as colleagues, as partners, as fellow human beings) and I do my best to show it in ways they'll see. It's not that hard.
clap clap clap
You said you don't know why, but you nailed it on the head already. They just don't listen and don't care. Even guys who seem to be happy or even "good" people, can have a blindspot where they simply don't give a shit about the thoughts and feelings of women. And its an attitude that they are raised from birth with, through their family, media, and other boys.
Women are supposed to please you, and you aren't supposed to relate to women. 2 gender rules that are instilled from a very young age.
I find that women just don't listen to me and my feelings and they only really care about there own perspective. This video is a good example of that. It is well known that women are aroused by erotic books and men are aroused by erotic images. Men are criticized constantly for watching pornography and it is illegal to watch publicly in most places. However women are celebrating that they read erotic in public and just put on a "poker face". When I point out that this is a double standard that makes it seem like men should be more ashamed of there sexuality then women are, I get accused of "not liking women". I like women but I don't like double standards and I don't like how women turn a blind eye to double standards when it helps them and hurts men.
@@treeforged9097 images and porn have controversies regarding _real people_ as in, real people/actors are involved. a LOT of trafficking issues and even underaged issues. while with fictional books, there's absolutely no one getting harmed, its all imagination.
@treeforged9097 there is a BIG difference between watching a p0rn0graphic VIDEO, and reading a p0rn0graphic BOOK. With a video its actively displayed and there is a good chance others (including children) will see it accidentally. And there'd be no mistaking what it is. But books are infinitely more private. In order for someone to get accidentally exposed to that from a book, they'd have to be reading over your shoulder for quite a while. Nobody is going to know the contents of a book just by looking at it. Reading it in public is not exposing anyone to anything. Watching it in video form actively SHOWS indecent imagery to people who haven't consented to seeing that. It's the same as flashing someone.
I used to be a book hoarder but a few years back I switched to just kindle books because lack of space. It takes awhile to get used to, but it's much more convenient because you can just use the app on your phone instead of bringing a book everywhere.
The one thing that bugs me the most about Booktok is how much disdain for ebooks and audiobooks is expressed, often under the guise of "paper books are better" (which I disagree greatly with as a librarian).
I like audiobooks to fall asleep to and on car rides and ebooks on trips and other places I can't lug books around to. They have lots of utility that paper books don't. No medium is the best, but that means that paper books aren't the superior form either.
I literally have 600 books on my Google Drive, to read on my phone. I can do 3 % of that in physical form if I pack right. Plus, the amount is a pretty cool thing to flaunt in itself.
Yeah. It’s dumb. Sure the experience of reading a paper book is great, but ebooks are fantastic for convenience, and audiobooks are great not just for people who can’t read at all or just for long proof time, or for listening to while doing other stuff. There’s a place for everything.
As someone with adhd, autism and perhaps being chronically online, I really need to have a physical book to keep focus. Audiobooks are too easy not to focus on and e-books are just a click away from anything else that gives more dopamine straight away.
I will always prefer physical books over audio books or e-books, but that's purely bc of my personal preference. I like the feeling of having a real book in my hands, turning the pages, being able to display the book on my shelves, etc. Trying to read a book digitally makes me bored, and with audio books, the narrator reads it differently than how I would read it. But physical books are in no way superior. A book is a book no matter the medium.
As someone who works at a Barnes & Noble I have one of the most baffling conversations on the regular because of booktok.
People come in and say that they just read "sample title" book series and then they ask for a recommendation for something similar... So I list a couple of recommendations for them and walk them over to the area and point out the books I'm talking about and then with alarming regularity a variation of the sentence comes out their mouth. " I'm not going to read that. It's not on booktok"
I'm not saying booktok itself is bad and I'm just happy to see so many people reading but there is something to be said about how some people won't read a book just simply because it's not on tiktok.
This is gonna sound like a 2012 “and everyone clapped” type tumblr post but I swear it’s true: I was a sophomore in 2013 and was reading smutty fanfic in geometry class after I finished my work. My teacher was going after the class and saw me reading while other girls were texting/on Facebook and said “see, you guys should be reading like Karina”. It was a great ego boost for my “not like other girls” persona but I also felt like I was cheating the system by getting away with it
Never been so goddamn early.
Anyways, booktok is interesting to me. It only ever shows up to me in regards to how people label their book, specifically showing off how many of the pink tabs they have. Iykyk. Some of them are surprisingly very passionate about their spicy books. And on the other hand, you have the wholesome, straight to the point book recommendations. And then you have the general dysphoria of self-publishing/marketing. Frankly, I never know which side of booktok I’m truly on.
That second hand comment is spot on. I have bought 90% of my books from library sales and second hand book stores.
I only buy books new if I really like the author, otherwise I can’t justify the $20+ price tags on most books. The majority of my book shelves are full of books from Goodwill and the dollar store 😂 thrift store books are amazing though, I’ve stumbled across a bunch of signed books or books with cute little messages to friends/family/partners.
I am so glad you talked about the hoarding on book tok... the overconsumption on book tok is wild. There are so many people doing hauls and admitting that they are buy a lot more books that they can read. I think that books are an investment and I don't think buying new or used books is inherently bad. But when you are buying twice as many books as you can possibly read that is a bit of an issue.
The problem is that when you buy them you genuenly plsnnon reading them. Of course I now buy most books on ebook or audiobook first before buying paper to at least filter out books I end up not liking, or just not reading for whatever reason.
It's pretty interesting that this Chad fella is so mad about women being open about an interest in something purposefully sexual as if cis dudes aren't constantly talking about cranking their hogs to all sorts of stuff that wasn't intended for that. But it's also intensely unsurprising, considering men have been mad about women having sexual agency since ancient times and there's something about that that probably comes from some long, long outdated idea that women aren't supposed to have erotic pleasure (or pleasure in general, considering how even innocent interests that are seen as feminine get constantly shit on until men decide they want to get in on it and then women get mocked and gatekeeped for doing a mens thing.)
Why do I feel like, as a cis-man, I've missed a whole ton of apparently common stuff? Like, a statistically unlikely amount of things.
@@RhombonianKnight potential cultural differences, being an actual statistical outlier, or just not noticing when guys are doing this?
I definitely can agree with checking out your local library - such a great resource.
You asked "Do you like women" and I legit giggled cuz I'm gay and I wonder that about straight men constantly.
Pet peeve- there is a difference between hoarding and collecting. 😢 hoarding is absolute chaos shop and dumps 😊collecting is curated, cared for, dragonesqe gold piles
Re: hoarding - I’ve got a huge book collection but it mostly came from my local thrift store which always has tons of popular books for $1-3. So I don’t feel guilty about the money I’ve spent, especially because my books bring me so much joy. But I also use my local library for new releases I really want you read if I can’t thrift a book because I’m not spending $25 on a new book lol
I love finding good thrift finds. Once I found a near pristine collection of Diana Whynn Jones books.
9:41 my friend works at a book publishing house, and this is what they do specifically. Apparently they have a whole team to explore Instagram, TH-cam, and TikTok to find influencers representing a topic the publishing company wants to do and ask them if they want to write a book on that topic. The bigger the platform they have, the better
I work at Target and I’m in charge of the book section there, and a few weeks ago we started selling Ice Planet Barbarians too. I had to do a double take when I put up the display haha
Honest to god I've listened to 2 recommendations for booktok (things have gotten worse since we last spoke & verity), never have I been more inspired to write my novels because those were absolutely awful. It's been a while since I've been so dissatisfied by a book, and if I see a booktok featuring either one, I know immediately that they are not to be trusted.
most of their recommendations are like mid at BEST! decided to just look for books on my own based on personal interests rather than take any recs from them LOL
I know of zero spicy books that have contributed to human trafficking. If you don't buy ethical porn, the people you are watching might not be there voluntarily.
just bought a 3 pack of native because i'm loving the plastic free. hope it works for me! thanks for tuning us on :3
Every time I see that image of an angel in front of the moon, I think, 'why does Amanda have a Wolverine mask?'
Chad's point about "You never see guys doing this" is the dumbest thing I've heard. As if guys don't rank their "hottest" adult stars, fictional characters, etc etc CONSTANTLY. But anyways, good vid as usual :)
i've never understood why some of my male freiends or just other men in general had to assume a woman i was hanging out with was someone i was trying to have sex with. i can't just be friends with a woman? i've had and have plenty of female friends throughout my life and they truly are just my friends and that's how i looked at them.
i've even had women thinking i was hitting on them when i was simply just having conversation.
I've always had mixed feelings about booktok (as well as booktube). I think it's great that it is primarily a female lead community, but it's also worth discussing that it is a very white community. This may sound a little bit harsh but I think it also sort of...hypes up the most mediocre white authors. Especially spicy tiktok. Which is fine, I guess, if your only there for the smut?
Also, another thing I noticed is that while fanfiction is becoming more mainstream and actually being published, it's usually white and straight. Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey, After, and perhaps the Love Hypothesis are all examples of this. It's just odd that I've always perceived fanfiction as a queer space, especially nowadays, but it's not the queer authors or the queer stories that are getting published and it just...rubs me the wrong way.
damn bro just let white people enjoy the mediocre white books
Oh in love hypothesis, they created Anh, a poc (an annoying one I dare say) who made Olive, a white woman, do uncomfortable things...
As a booktube veteran, I get war flashbacks scrolling past booktok videos. 😅 But hey, they're vibing over there so good for them.
The Song of Achilles was popular on Tumblr YEARS ago, interesting that it's having a resurgence now