“Rugby has a class problem that it NEEDS to fix!” 🏉 Ellis Genge | Up Front
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- On today’s episode, we are joined by a top England Rugby International, who in recent times won the Premiership title with Leicester Tigers before returning to his roots with Bristol Bears. Ellis Genge faced early struggles in his life, growing up in the working class area of Knowle West in Bristol. An angry young man who faced problems in school and with the law, he found solace in an unlikely place - Rugby. A sport which helped him channel his anger and where he found belonging and structure.
Now the star of the ‘Full Contact’ Netflix documentary series and a well respected leader for club and country, Ellis has been capped for England 58 times, lifting the Six Nations trophy in 2020 after finishing as runner-up at the World Cup in 2019. He joins the show to talk about his unconventional journey in Rugby. His career under head coaches Eddie Jones and Steve Borthwick whilst giving his unfiltered opinion on the issues the sport faces in 2024 and beyond.
Subscribe now for the full episode and head to / @upfrontwithsimonjordan .
Warning: This episode may contain strong language and references to violence. Listener discretion advised.
Remember, 18+ for gambling responsibly.
#upfront #simonjordan #rugby
00:00 Introduction to Ellis Genge
00:55 Podcast begins
01:45 Ellis’ background
09:10 Belief in himself
11:22 Dyspraxia
13:10 Being fuelled by anger
14:48 Bristol Bears
23:11 Leicester Tigers
29:48 Steve Borthwick
31:25 Rejoining Bristol
34:59 Does Rugby have a class problem?
41:37 Representation in Rugby
44:39 England & Eddie Jones
48:37 Rugby players relationship with coaches
55:58 How Ellis prepares for games
59:36 Owen Farrell & playing abroad
01:03:39 Will England win a World Cup?
I was hoping you’d get Ellis on for ages, and this did not disappoint. Brilliant conversation.
I had my son in football, not a good environment for a child. Have him at rugby now, what a breath of fresh air. Rugby tries but working class schools are obsessed with football
Because it’s the most universal sport, it’s much easier to put up football goal posts, and rugby isn’t really a working class sport. Also all the gay locker room ‘banter’ is a bit off putting to most men.
@@stg6004 Hit the nail on the head!
you are lying how was it not a good environment ? you are probably a rugby fan because I could tell by the attitude which prevailing is in rugby which has an element of moral superiority above other sports and not to mention their obsession with comparing themselves to football
Rugby in England has a class issue, wales is probably the one country in UK that it’s played by working class.
@@gunner4life568 parents swearing at refs, coaches arguing with the refs. Kids only coming on for 5-10 mins at the end. I think the reactions on here prove my point. Football is a brilliant game but very toxic
Love Ellis Genge and I've aIways loved rugby. So thank you Ellis for being you and thank your parents for the job they did, but most of all, thank the people around Ellis that spotted the gem he was and nurtured this great talent.
Brilliant episode, really enjoyed it. Gengey came across great and straight forward, no bs.
Best one yet Simon. Ellis is a great breath of fresh air and comes across as a great man! 💯a fan of him and England 🏴.
Love Genge, always made me laugh how short tempered he was in the pitch, has definitely added the discipline to his game. Another great guest
Only ever had heard of Ellis, never seen him speak or knew much about him. What a bloke. Says what he means and means what he says
Give him a watch in some of the rugby mate, what a player
Great podcast. Probably my favourite one.
Brilliant, brilliant bloke, terrific interview!
Great interview! I'm from Knowle west and know some of Genge's family. Great people and great story
I met Ellis very briefly while he and some of his friends were playing golf, he was a very polite and affable chap.
Astute, intelligent and analytical. Good man to have on your side.
Another brilliant episode,England definitely need more players like Gengey!!!
Never watched a game of Rugby before - grew up in a school in London with no access to grass and was just never something that appealed - but sat through the hour of this interview and thoroughly enjoyed listening to this. What a top bloke
Glad you enjoyed, culturally being Welsh grass everywhere and I wish London would make it more accessible for kids to play !
Mate you gotta watch some games then. Harlequins just played a brilliant game against Bordeaux a week or so ago, watch the highlights. They’re the closest team to you in south london
What a great interview. There are a lot of things I like about Ellis, one of them is his honesty. A top bloke and a great role model.
Best one yet! 👏🏽 have some of my best memories growing up playing rugby with the lads. Best sport in the world
That was superb. Played rugby in Bristol when Genge was playing at Knowle and have followed his career ever since but can't believe how much I learned about him from that interview
Top man Ellis, made for a great listen
One of the best episodes yet. Until the Netflix doc I didn't really like Ellis. I'm Welsh. But what a lovely bloke. Really talks some sense. I'm now a fan.
Absolutely loved listening to you guys. Thoroughly entertaining, enlightening and a well spent hour of my life. Thanks.
Ellis is right. I will say the private school network has done exceptionally well to produce the players we have and have had.
But working class rugby stars are very rare.
If you want to be undisputed top rugby nation, you can't just have a world class route via private schools.
The German football association is a great example of this switch in focus.
It never took attention away from the private school network, but guaranteed a minimum level of coaching for working class kids with an interest.
I guess the problem is that it is mainly the independent and grammar schools that makes up the majority of school rugby.
School cutbacks and the selling of sports pitches mean that many of ordinary schools just do not have any appetite to organise School rugby.
Schools are also being put off with the risk element of the game and with the liklihood of actions regarding concussion depending on how it is managed could spell the end of school rugby as it currently is
RFU won't bite the hand that feeds it. It has a conveyor belt of ready made elite players without having to invest a penny. It's paid by wealthy middle class parents to the tune of 30k a year school fees.
@@patrickchilds2987100% agree, went to a state school and kind of knew the rules of rugby. Which was better than most in my year, we hardly had positions other than wingers and full back. I wasn’t a big lad by any means, pretty skinny real yet I was hooker. We didn’t even play on a rugby pitch, we played on a football pitch. It really wasn’t set up for lads to get into it through school so I ended up playing football. Bear in mind my PE teacher was a rugby player so we probably had a slightly better go at it than a lot of other schools but even then you could hardly call it rugby.
Great episode! EG has always been a firm favourite in our house- rugby watching/playing family and a son with dyspraxia it’s fantastic to see such a down to earth guy, fantastic ambassador for the sport! Showing the kids nothing is impossible ❤
As a welsh rugby fan I have to say what a brilliant show with Ellis Genge he's earned his place at the top table and good luck to him in the rest of his career.
Only just recently got into rugby from the six nations and full contact and Gengey is defo one of my favourite players, what a guy 💪🏻
Gotta support sarries mate, closest club in London ⚫️🔴
@@jakeclough8090 yeh I’ve started to follow them mate mainly because they’re not too far from me and a lot of English players !
Fantastic insight into Ellis, great interview. Looking forward to seeing him in the next Guy Richie 🎥
One of the best pods you’ve done, Simon. S - did you say Eddie F-ing Jones? G - yeah why not! 😂 Go on Gengie 💪
❤
Excellent interview. Ellis is always open and honest.
Great interview
Simon best interview you’ve ever done and didn’t pronounce any team names wrong, well done.
Great in depth conversations really enjoyed this interview
I’m Welsh I love Ellis he’s bang on with the class problem, it wasn’t ever a problem in Wales but it’s creeping up now
Probably to do with a mixture of things. The Welsh football team has done brilliantly and there’s no doubt Gareth bale’s stardom in the prem, at Madrid and for wales has made him arguably the biggest and most popular Welsh role model in wales, and he certainly is outside of it. Also wales with bake have been to a lot of tournaments and been over-achieving for the size. Whereas the rugby has been on a slow decline. The Welsh team throughout the 2010s has been very good and you’ve had a golden generation with north, tipuric, faletau, biggar, roberts, Davies, Williams etc etc etc but now they last of them are going, there is a lack of youth coming though and probably even more worryingly the club sides are just dreadful and making huge losses. I think the wru have run these sides poorly, but I think also Welsh rugby clubs have suffered, same as in England but to a lesser degree, with football’s utter dominance. Sky sports just have marketed the premier league so well you can’t get away from football. You have to be in to football for small talk and convo and the marketing of role models and heroes is huge in the premier league and inspires and interests kids and young people way more.
Brilliant, honest,.open. one of the best interviews I have watched on sport, let alone Rugby. Only thing I might have added is Zammit going to NFL as a question.
That was awesome !
Listening to you, I reckon
You’re mob would absolutely
Love Australia ! Season or 2 after
Lions tour with Angus and the
Waratahs!? Absolutely destroy! 💯
Move’em’ all out !
Coach for western Sydney ladz!
Really enjoyed that. Ellis seems a proper bloke. I think if more people in punditry & commentary spoke as he did (obviously without the swearing, even though I liked it) you’d expand the sport to a much wider audience in this country. Rather than the traditional Ra Ra brigade
Will definitely pay more attention to Union now
Should definitely pay more attention to rugby union, best game on the planet lad. Out of curiosity, what pundits do you mean rah rah brigade other than Clive Woodward
What does ambivalent about mean !!! That is a humble man what brilliant interview top man and this is from a Welshman 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
great episode
Great interview yet again, have no idea who this young man is but like the fact that a council estate lad has done well in rugby. Footballers need to watch the rugby men in how they take pain of a game big-time. 😎
Watch more rugby mate, he’s awesome in it
Ellis is a real one, got plenty of time for this man.
Didn't know much about Ellis, apart from watching him play for England. Great insights and conversation
What a fucking legend this guy is ..respect to this guy he is everything what is to be English ..legend !
Best one yet, Ellis comes across so well, top bloke
Great conversation very informative and insightful
The fact he sighd for the bears for his family makes him a amazing player 🐻
Best one yet! Brilliant
great interview and insights - thanks very much. I do think that Ellis needs to understand that sometimes the criticism is actually well founded and deserved about England's playing style and is not a criticism of the players. It is obviously aimed at the coaches. Of course we don't see how hard they are working and we can only judge what we see on the pitch. When that is the RWC warm up games and recent matches like Scotland then of course the fans are unhappy. We have been crying out for England to add an attacking edge for ages and to try and be more creative and score tries. Then we hear that the players instigated this, and fair play to Borthwick for listening to this, post the Scotland match and lo and behold we see great performances against Ireland and France. It ain't rocket science!
He said he would feel the same way about the criticism being well-founded, he addressed it and agreed with it being expected.
Don’t say fair well borthwick like the players had some sort of intervention and he was persuaded 😭😭 those performances don’t come from a week or two of attack training, they would have been working on playing like that since at least the start of the 6 nations. Go listen to borthwick’s interview with the good the bad the rugby, he came in as England coach with less than a year’s prep for a World Cup, didn’t get all the coaching staff till just before the World Cup, had loads of negativity, red cards left right and centre and he still got 1 scrum penalty away from a World Cup final. And ne’s made further improvements to the coaching team since that World Cup now there’s more time and opportunity. He did incredibly at Japan, England, Leicester and now back at England as a head role, let’s give him a cycle to see what he can really build. Andy Farrell and Rassie and galthie didn’t build those teams in 1 year
Very similar story to genge from a working class south london family, no family member has been in education past the age of 15 most men in my family have been inside. Luckily I was given a scholarship to another big sports school in the south west area. My face never fitted and I have no friends from school all my mates were local lads back home. However hand on my heart in terms of rugby there was never a barrier from coaches and selectors (I don’t think, I didn’t make it because I wasn’t good enough). The problem we have isn’t let’s pull down the current system of private schools but we need funding and a culture change in working class areas and schools to get kids playing. The RFU need to get money and coaches into state schools to push rugby teams for kids to play in. There’s no perfect answer to this situation but the RFU need to look at the situation of breeding a culture in state schools where parents and kids want to be engaged and when you look at the ridiculous culture football breeds it’s there for the taking
❤ & ✊ Ellis…….The rugby media can’t stand any working class guys coming through ….just look at how they treated Faz & how they went for Jason Robinson back in the day …..all their bullshit about growing the game 😂😂😂
That’s absolute bs mate, absolute bs. Jason Robinson was adored, I love faz but he doesn’t exactly do much to stop him getting stick and it has nothing to do with private schooling. I know for a fact a lot of effort is going to grow the game. Just because New Zealand rugby is going terribly don’t talk about English rugby mate
@@jakeclough8090
I’ll speak about what I like ( mate👀)
English arrogance alive and kicking I see
@@davidpeters3857 it’s not arrogance, it’s the fact you don’t know what you’re talking about lad
@@jakeclough8090
Lad….what a 🛎 end you are
Regarding the class and school debate.... Interestingly the squad around the all conquering 2003 world cup had a more even state school / private school split... Off the top of my head the likes of Johnson Cohen Robinson Corry Leonard Woodman Vickery Thompson Back... Or at least not the Harrows, Etons, Rugby School and quaint prep schools of the more recent and current squads.
You can draw your own conclusions as to whether this made the team abit more streetwise dogged and ultimately successful
To be fair it is a bit overblown how private school dominated the English squad is when compared to other countries. Out of last Six nations team, Genge, Marler, Cole, Chessum, Martin, Underhill, Cunningham-South, Dombrand, Roots, Mithcell, Care, Ford, Spencer all state schools. I don't think I can name one Irish player that went to a state school. The England football team largely went to state schools but hasn't exacly been renowned for its mentality and grit.
@@BertFlashmanit’s classic Genge playing the poor man. Wait til he wheels out the race card whilst the starting team for the 2019 final had 7 coloured players out of 15! Yep, huge systemic race problem!
Yes lots from working class backgrounds in that team 👍🏻
💯 it did …..Only time their backs weren’t a defensive liability
@@kenrehill8775yeah whatever mate, time to retire from TH-cam I think
Good man Genge.have him as a starter everyday of the week😅
Absolute top lad!
Simon why did you not use Rugby League as a direct comparison when talking about the class divide in Rugby Union?
Because we’re comparing big sports here mate. Also rugby and rugby league aren’t really competing for players and classes in most areas of the country
@@jakeclough8090 maybe so but rugby Union class division isn't just an Englishman thing. In Australia Rugby Union is hugely reliant on private schools but the difference there is Rugby League is now a much more attractive option for those private school kids hence why Rugby Union is dead in Australia as they will never move away from being a sport predominantly for non working class people.
@@iwgp4nagata well that’s partly it, it’s also more that rugby league is just more popular and hyped up in Australia than union is. Which is a shame because it’s shite. And union skills are so interchangeable with league especially as a back in union, it’s worth taking the risk in aus and going to league because the money is so big
@@jakeclough8090 it's more hyped up because it's a better game lol. There is no Rugby competition better than the NRL. Union in Australia will fall behind soccer, things are that bad. There is only a limited amount of elite athletes and if a sport only really cares about privately educated kids that player pool is limited. Once the NRL clubs then started to get the private school kids into their systems then the potentially Union participation pool becomes even smaller. Maybe they should of stopped being obsessed with class a long time ago.
@@iwgp4nagata a better game yet only Australia care about it 😭😭 smaller men, easier game league. The rugby World Cup, 6 nations, champions cup, premiership and top 14 are all better rugby competitions mate. Well yes soccer will overtake league and afl eventually I have no doubt. Yes I agree rugby shouldn’t be stuck to private schools. That’s the difference between England and Australia though, rugby union is competing with football in England in state schools whereas in Australia it’s competing with rugby league. League and union at the heart of it are very interchangeable and so Aussie union has suffered from they 18 year old prospects switching. No 18 year olds switch to football from rugby here because the games are so different. Also I will say, union is growing rapidly across Europe and South America and it will slowly be more known in America. The nrl can do everything they try in America, New Zealand and England but union will eventually regain popularity in the pacific, even if it takes 10+ years of 50 years
When I was playing rugby growing up it was more about who you know rather than how good you are, so many players didn’t get picked for the regionals or academy’s because they were deemed to play for the wrong club or the coach had links to a certain club and only wanted to help those players, I knew a guy who was shocking, he was a hooker and couldn’t throw for toffee yet his dad worked at a prem club and he got a place in their academy even though there were at least 3 better hookers in the region, and again I went to a regional tournament which was a trial for england age group tour and my region dominated every game yet the vast majority of players selected were from one of the worst regions because the coach was from that region, I hope it’s changed but I doubt it
Good interview
Please get Rassie Erasmus in
Enjoyed that the boy done good for play the genre.
Excellent episode! I've come to realise over the years that sportsmen and people in general in the lime light, whether that be sports or showbiz, the people I enjoy and entertain the most are truely being themselves and Ellis Genge truely comes across like that - basically, This is me no excuses, unlike the majority of tosspots who hide behind somesort of facade and present some insipid charachter.
Maybe the reason they do that is that because of the idiots in the media and on social media who then take things you say and distort it. Tenge is currently getting away with it but watch this space.
Legend
Can you be Up Front with Joey Barton already
Really looking forward to this one
Simon Jordan morphing into Bricktop
"In the quiet words of the Virginia Mary, come again"
No fank you Turkish……….im sweet enough!!!
Big character and clearly bright. My son having moved to a private school late, can't compete with the skills of those that have been right through prep schools and club rugby etc nor is he as mentally tough as some. So some boys do get a leg up to a level that perhaps they shouldn't and ultimately don't have the mental toughness for, that's all!! These private shool kids often have more social confidence and that can be intimidating for state school kids, when meeting up for representative rugby at a younger age. Jordan hijacks Jones's words and becomes aggressively chippy. Firstly it is ludicrous to say that ALL private school kids are privileged and have never faced adversity. Say that Lawrence DaIlaglio and James Haskell's faces. Even the 15 year olds that go to Harrow are the likes of the Vunipola's!!! Did their parents drive range rovers? It is childish to suggest that there aren't extremely mentally tough people coming out of private schools, look at our long violent history lead by these people! The coaching, kit and confidence advantage are sometimes real, but claiming that all private school kids are mentally soft is lazy, low quality journalism.
Long violent history?
It wasn’t the preppies who fought however it was the lads from the back streets. Officers didn’t do much but give orders from behind the trenches.
Everyone says that any sport that isnt football or fighting has 'a class problem'.
Best advertised sports, they drive this narrative to stop people turning to sports like rugby. Utter marketing dominance
Anyone who plays in the pack and especially in the front row is courageous. Definitely a collision sport at that level.
In South Africa every school rich or poor plays rugby. Our captain Siya didn't have shoes and played rugby barefeet when he was a kid and look where he is now. Cheslin Kolbe grew up in a community where gangsterism was on another level and look where he is now. It's always weird hearing about rugby and class systems in the northern hemisphere. In the southern hemisphere playing rugby, cricket or football or any other sport is seen as a way out of the community you grew up in.
It certainly seems that SA is getting it right. But come on racially you had some sticky times in your sport until MANDELA
@@johnrichards4097 well I'm talking about the new South Africa. I was born in 1991 and in 1994 Nelson Mandela was elected president in our first democratic election. I don't know anything about the racist apartheid South Africa other than stories family members have told me.The players I'm talking about are 30 and early 30s which is around the same age as me.
Don't think Hemispheres have anything to do with it. Pretty sure Australia has the same issue, which is one of the reasons Union has very little following over there now. Countries like France and Wales don't have an issue, but it's definitely still a big problem in England. But I don't think it will change until we replace the dinosaurs we have at the RFU!!
@@johnrichards4097that's obvious. The Apartheid government only wanted white guys in the teams. They gave the best of everything to whites. You still can't be beating up on us. We've come a long way. You haven't even started the journey.
I love the bok delusion I really do. Football dominates amongst black communities. Sure there maybe more rugby opportunities in more communities and backgrounds than there used to be but to say it’s everyone’s game in South Africa is utter bs. Hopefully one day and the 2 World Cup wins recently will help that but you’re not there yet
Rugby doesn’t have a class issue… English Rugby has a class issue - an important distinction
Absolutely correct, I think Ireland go a similar route but England stands apart.
Good point
No your wrong it's the same in Wales now
@@kevinbowditch4842that’s wales’ own fault
I agree
The problem lays with a lot of public schools don't have rugby pitches so it's not taught as much
Stare schools* but yes
What a guy
Correction, South Africa was knocked out in the Semis during RWC 2015, but I understand his point.
Love Ellis. I don't think Simon Jordan realises how funny he actually is, total caricature!
Always been working class in Wales, maybe why we've punched above our weight over the decades
And it’s your number one sport. Remember we have to have cricket and league and football etc. not many other countries play so many games at such a high level as England. South Africa don’t really play football nor do Australia and NZ not too many cricket and league in Scotland and Ireland. England because we invented most of the games play all of them to a greater extent than other nations.
@@johnrichards4097thanks mate but first he would know that and secondly you’re just wrong. Like wrong on every point it’s hilarious
@@jakeclough8090very insightful comment and full of great points. Definitely from the school of “because I tell you”.
@@johnrichards4097 I’ll happily explain why all your points are just so wrong. Wales football is now the number one sport. Historically it may have been a bit smaller than rugby but it’s always been close behind and now in the last 15 years at least football is definitely number one amongst young people. Football is the biggest sport in South Africa so again you’re completely wrong 😂😂 it’s just popular amongst the black population and doesn’t have access to the same money and resources some other nations have. The black population makes up about 80% of south Africa so very big. Australia play rugby league and Aussie football which are both way bigger than rugby, as well as cricket and now football too, so rugby union is minimum the 5th sport they play now and historically only 4th. New Zealand historically has been rugby union dominated with some cricket yes but league and football are fast catching that though and will overtake within the next 10 years sadly. Ireland are historically heavy on hurling, Gaelic football and football so rugby is 3rd of 4th biggest and only in the last 5-10 years has rugby really started to become a competitor for top spot. Scotland ha always been very very football dominated. There aren’t many countries in Europe with 5 million populations who have 2 teams who can fill out 60k football stadiums with Celtic and rangers, that’s how football dominated Scotland is. The school of ‘because I tell you’ was easier than having to write this long-winded comment to explain to you other countries basic cultures. Your belief of only England plays multiple sports is a ridiculous one, as an Englishman myself
English, Irish and Scottish rugby atre all class based, other countries bnot so much, Wales has lots of working class lads do Aus and NZ.
So you don’t know what you’re talking about 😂😂
Really, please expand...
Really enjoyed this one, nice to mix it up from the footballer intetrviews
Clive woodward won a world cup so i won't act like he's clueless, but some of his takes are horrendous. Expect better from him. You don't see Graham Henry or Steve Hansen speaking nonsense for clicks?
1:04:08 Mate South Africa finished 3rd in 2015. They just had that upset loss to Japan which i guess overshadows everything else
Didn't have a clue who this guy was. But i enjoyed this interview.
Watch the rugby mate because it’s awesome and there’s lots of great guys like genge
@@jakeclough8090 I'm more rugby league mate
@@will-bp9gz oh right the small man knock off code
@@jakeclough8090 hahaha working class rugby lol
@@will-bp9gz nah nah plenty of working class kids in union at the local clubs to be fair
Fuck me that was a good podcast
I can vouch for this class problem I played for Worcester warriors academy,county and england A at youth level wasn't ever a problem at 5-12 but as soon as puberty hit the academy changed and became very clicky rich kids and the poor nearly all the rich kids made it and none of us poor kids made it ...our parents simply couldn't afford the rugby gear or petrol to take is round the country to games never mind the 2 or 3 international tours we were supposed to go on thousand pound trips to SA , Ireland , Scotland just wasn't viable ❤
"Eddie Farckin Jones" LOL
It’s has such a class problem that Ellis couldn’t even pass a ball yet has had everything handed to him on a plate ,
Class problem?...maybe in certain parts of the country but certainly not from my part of the world, Gloucester. Here private and public schools play rugby however football is taking over. I would say without grammar and private schools continuing their traditions of playing rugby the minority sport would be even more of a minority game unfortunately. Rugby can still offer and give great foundations for people
Hate rugby but this is a class episode open and honest pod.
If you dont BELONG show them how you should BELONG.love it
Take a shot every time he say "f@#k me"
If private school players don’t have the drive then why are there so many playing for England? Yes rugby isn’t played as much in state schools but there’s plenty that do. Get fed up with this whining, u play the hand your dealt.
I don’t think it’s whining it’s just stating a fact that we are probably missing a lot of talented players. Some of whom might be sealing your Range Rover right now.
Rugby hasn’t got a class issue it’s just the best players do happen to come from upper class
Joe joyce 2.0
Haha, definitely! 😂
Rugby players are deliberately scouted late because so much of the game hinges on physicality, which isn't settled until late teens.
It's a late specialism sport. To give an example, there is far less athletic, physical difference between 2 footballers playing different positions - e.g. Ben White and Erling Haaland - than the rugby equivalent e.g. Ellis Genge and Louis Rees Zammit.
It just wouldn't make sense to scout kids at U8. It's U14 because that's when it starts to become clear where a kid might play. This is true of both codes, Union and League.
As for class, Rugby has largely been defined by class ever since it split into Union and League. I coach both codes and there is no doubt Rugby League attracts kids Union simply wouldn't (the same is equally true that Union attracts kids who'd never play League).
Rugby - both codes - are deeply cultural sports in a way a sports like football isn't, and if you're not from that culture or it doesn't appeal to you, you won't play it because it's so integral to both sports.
Take Rugby Union's obsessional 'Rugby values'. To alot of people this idea of Sportsmanship, kicking the shit out of someone then drinking 15 pints with them is dated, maybe even cultish, hypocritical and sanctimonious and used to look down on other sports yet it is completely, 100% part of rugby union culture and it is proactively coached. It's called TREDS.
I don't know any other sport that makes such a play of its values and its culture apart, maybe, from Union's working class mirror Rugby league.
It's not inclusive.
In fact, what Rugby Union should do (and what League is already doing) is make inclusivity one of its core values, and then really try to live it. It's a tough sport which cannot be completely sanitised and actively trying to have an inclusive culture would do far more to grow it than trying to make it 100% safe IMHO.
Rugby Union is inclusive with respect to it’s probably the only team sport that accommodates most human body shapes. Every other team I can think of has a prototypical physique. A union tight head prop, lock, scrum half and outside back mostly look different to each other, and importantly, each position ( and by logic, body shape) has a skill set that another position (body shape) doesn’t, and thereby a unique value and importance in the team.
No its not😊@@Badlighter
It all stems from the establishment the class issue. Rugby league is ostracised in this country because union is the rich man’s game. Look at some of the biggest names in union: farrells, fords, Robinson, folau, sailor, Edwards they’ve all come from working class league backgrounds
I'm from the North and from a very rugby league town but I've always loved union more, plus league took its fair share of union players back in the day, offiah, Davies, quinnell etc etc, but I prefer nrl league to our british game
@@kebabremover6024 they only took union players due to union being amateur at the time
@@kebabremover6024 I agree NRL and state of origin is the biggest competition in both codes in my opinion.
@Rob981. yes it's an unbelievable game 👍🏻
Not sure I get the point you are trying g to make. Do you?
Up north the working class play rugby league however I don't watch union however it's union mostly played by private school lads?
Yeah Union is private school - 95% of England squad is privately educated might be more
@@Jackthompson01 Thats just riduclous, Off the top off my head in the six nations squad, Genge, Marler, Cole, Heyes, Martoin, Chessum, Underhill, dombrant, Roots, Cunningham-South, Care, Spencer, Mitchell, Ford all went to state schools.
@@Jackthompson01don’t talk bollox, do your homework first before making such an idiotic statement.
It's a myth even back I'm the day the likes of garforth scaffolding, jason leonard builder, Gareth chilcott etc all working class
@@kebabremover6024 you’re kidding? Chilcott’s rounded vowels could only have come from 8 years at Millfield 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Class is a NH and AUSTRALIA thing, NZ we have everyone,we even share between code's,/union and league, although the league code still hold some sort of attitude towards union,like its a us and them,need to get over it,union have
Such a mature and calm brawler Ellis has become. He chooses his battles now.
Class problem 😂😂😂 look at the way footballers act and look how rugby players act on the field i think class shines through with rugby players when your brought up in the correct manor it shows
Poor poor me!
While ellis is right about a class problem , its nowhere near what it was , i think he has a chip on his shoulder about it . If your good enough, you'll make it no matter what background you have . Courtney lawes , kyle sinkler are prime examples of it.
Everyone gets kicked out of school at 16, it’s called leaving Simon.
Why does it need to fix its class problem? why must everything be ironed out even in society? let the Toffs have theirs and us have ours
Because both sports are dying.
Rugby league is a working class sport born from the pits & docks up north whereas union in England is more a southern sport played by the upper class
springboks were knocked out in the semi finals in 2015 not group stages
Rebel that got kicked out of school at 16 😂 thats the age you go anyways 😂
Showing his age he never mentioned the best black rugby player England have had Jeremy guscott
Simon doesn't know what ambivalent means
Love's swearing
😂Ox bunny😂.