There is a cleat fitting tool called R.A.D. Pedals (Rotational Angle Device) which is nothing more than a free floating pedal with indicators sticking out the side - I may be the only person who still uses them. When a rider pedals the bike the bottom indicator follows the foot angle while the top indicator stays perpendicular to the crank, so you can actually see the rotation as it happens. They do three things. First, they show the rider that their feet don’t really point straight forward and they are indeed asymmetrical. Second, they allow the fitter to put the cleat in the center of rotation. Third, they teach the fitter about the human body, and how different each one is. Being shown more information is why bike fitting is a science, not an art. Seeing actual differences when you make changes is how you get things right. One of the things not mentioned in this video is rotation of the foot changing the stance width, which isn’t uncommon. Alignment is hip to knee to ankle, if the foot rotation is forcing that in one direction the body will fight it. With the R.A.D. Pedals I can make lateral changes in cleat position and watch the results. For me the hardest cases are FAI (Femoral Ashtabula Impingement). The hip is a ball & socket, there’s no guarantee that the femur will rotate straight up and down. In normal life this isn’t a problem, as soon as your foot leaves the ground it’s free to go where it wants. The bike is the hardest case, the crank doesn’t allow for lateral movement. The R.A.D. Pedals make this easy to see. The issue I have with SpeedPlay pedals is that they only have rotation. Float is the ability to move side to side at the cleat. FAI requires float as well as paying attention to Q-factor. SPD cleats are a whole other story - I’m dealing with them more and more as gravel bikes have gotten more popular… I would also like to thank you for pushing me us use shims under cleats. The part I always question my judgement is the adaptive part - where the client rides the bike and their body adapts to the change. I also have seen far too many cases where fitters have made too much of a change and things go horribly wrong in the other direction. I can see asymmetry, I now have the confidence to add shims and I have a number of very happy customers to show for it. Once again, SPD cleats are a real problem as they don’t allow for shims…
My right foot rotates outward a good amount while walking, and rotating that cleat inward helps tremendously. Neill outlines the exact thing i’ve been experimenting with lately for optimal comfort.
I was using spd pedals. For me there was to much float in the pedals and it was irritating both of my legs. I been a runner for over 25 years. I bought some power meter pedals and also got some zero degree cleats. My pedal stroke feels so much smoother and natural. Yesterday I just did my longest ride which was 55 miles. About to go ride right now. The most important thing is that you know your body. I can't afford a bike fit so I do appreciate all these videos
Hey Kim, thanks for the comment. Float gives you a more room to get things wrong and not pay the price with your body! We hope have set up your cleats mm perfect! Goodluck -RCA Team
Another point that is rarely discussed, is the difference between your seated and standing natural/optimal foot rotation. I don't see any reason for the natural angle with which the foot seats on the pedal to be the same when standing as when seating, at least in my case and with my 6° of float, I can feel and see my heels turning a bit outwards any time I get out of the saddle and vice versa. Probably doesn't matter much for a sprinter, but for someone who likes long climbs and spends extended periods of time out of the saddle, that could be important from both a comfort/injury prevention but also efficiency point of view.
100% agree!!! 👍 The only issue with lots of float is that it's harder to unclip. I recreationally ride flat pedals just to let my feet do whatever they want in terms of q factor and angle.
i have knee pain when riding my bike. After lots of googling and reading all kinds of articles and testing pain was still there. This video explains what and how i need to adjust so that im comfortable on bike without the medial/lat knee pain. Im going to adjust the cleats and test this out. Thanks for the video explaination!
For some people like myself, I have to be careful not to have too much float as then can't unclip my pedals! I just don't have the ability to rotate my feet enough. My Shimano SPD-SL pedals came standard with yellow cleats and the results were disastrous! I bought a pair of blue cleats with less float and all is now good with the world! 🙌 🙌 🙌
I use the blue ones too. Just a little bit of float, and I got my cleat position locked in well enough that I never have knee pain anymore, so I better stick with it and just draw the cleat outline on the bottom of my shoes so I can install in the same location when my cleats wear out.
I experienced the same with the LOOK Keo cleats, I fell with the red 9 degree cleats to the side flat-faced due not being able to unclip my left foot out of the pedal. I changed now to the grey Look Keo cleats with 4.5 degree float and it seems I can unclip faster. Can't test it with the 9 degree red cleats to be sure since I threw them away after buying the grey cleats but the faster you hit the unlocking mechanism the faster you get out of the pedal it seems.
Fantastic overview, I've been riding for over 10 years and never had knee pains so I didn't think I needed Speedplay, but I have been curious about different cleats and positions. Like everything else, I'm right in the middle of averages and will continue with my middle range of float. I've been curious about 0 degree but you answered for my long, long distance riding. Thank you!
Last year I switched to Time xpresso pedals, they allows me to have natural feet position with nice float, but still securely connected to a bike. As a bonus you get low price and low weight 👍
l was riding red spdsl cleats cause it gave me more stability .. psychological. position was awful but l was highly functional. after having to sit for a year when covid hit and studying l nearly couldn't ride my bike. wen't back to my old worn our shoes, yellow cleats, overworked the whole position and it's way way better .... hate the yellow color but can't change that. did some damage to my calfes l'm dealing with for 2-3 years now, with horrible shoes and cleat position. will try out shorter cranks even tho my hips are free. still getting numb nuts but will see about that. this channel and francis cades bike fit tuesdays have helped me so so much. thank you
Great video and Neill clearly knows his stuff. I sure wish he lived in the US. I was getting numb on my right toes and figured out my foot was rotating outward in the shoe to compensate for the cleat being set wrong. I adjusted the cleat so my foot is now in the middle of the shoe and now I have happy toes! I'm a big fan of all the bike fitting content. Thanks.
I’m curious for a longer ride, how much does the foot side-to-side heel rotation play around from fresh to being burnt up on durations. I think zero float would also help develop proper form, if and only if it is properly positioned. But the float’s movement will also help with the rider’s comfort for compensation on longer rides. I hope a video of a 3 hour ride on monitoring the feet’s movement from 1-2 and 3 hours affects the pressure changes on pressure mapping on the shoe interface itself. Thank you for this video and for all the videos you two have been producing and sharing.
I had a weird experience in which decreasing the float helped me a lot! For some reason the shimano yellow cleat was letting my feet go to a place maybe better for pedalling and generating force (heels inbd) but not to the liking of my knees. The blue cleat at the same position removed the issue. Go figure...
I think this is the best video I have seen to help me because before I saw this video I had my cleats fixed and thought that was the way to generate more power... But after having watch this video I have come to the understanding that I should go back to my 6 degree float.
@@roadcyclingacademy I agree but all now I still have my 0° float... so far I have no problem with it... Should I really change back? I feel as though I can generate more power with 0° degrees ... What do you think?
This was interesting and thanks for the upload. I myself ride fixed cleat and always have. I do mainly ride crits and track with the occasional long ride (plus 6hrs) thrown in. I must just be one of the rare ones that don't have an issue with a fixed postion or maybe because I've been riding for around 30yrs now (with the sameish setup) my body has just grown into it? I've also had a few bike fits done over the years with not much deviation if at all from my normal setup. From my point of view re. the fixed cleat, as Neill points out, it's about feeling secure in a short sharp sprint. I have tried cleats with a little bit of float but I wasn't to keen with the "loser" feeling, especially with track. Cheers!
Hey Karl, we're glad you found an optimal fit that works, the 'loose' sensation is definitely a common topic when it comes to float. Properly set up cleats with float will allow your body to move naturally. There may be other physical challenges that have you feel this loose sensation. -RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy Nah, no "physical challenges" just my preference. I'm not saying float is bad at all, I suppose I'm just saying I prefer fixed and have never had an issue with it and that one system doesn't fit all. Cheers
You missed out a significant contraindication to having float, in the case of riders that have mobility in the joints. I used to use speedplay pedals as a novice, based on advice from people like yourself, that float would be good for my knee health. Yet I got pain in the left knee, because that knee has about 20⁰ of free movement. (If I sit in a chair with my knees at 90⁰, I can twist my lower leg outward by about 20⁰ at the knee). This is just a natural thing, never had an injury or anything. With a floating pedal, random movements and such, especially when mountain biking on technical terrain, would cause left knee pain knee pain after a while. With fixed cleats to constrain the movement I have never had any issue.
I have cartilage damage to both patella, right one has been repaired and is generally pain free in day to day life, left one hasn’t and usually hurts like shit from time to time… I ride with 2° because I was too worried about the discomfort that could be associated with my foot angle being out of position when bending and I don’t seem to have pain at all no matter how hard I ride… just doing squats with any amount of weight usually hurts, my bike seems to be the only way I’m able to workout my legs pain free
Amazing advice!! I actually changed my Red Look KEO cleats for Grey Look KEO cleats for less float. But after watching this video I don't know whether that's the right choice or not (did throw away the old red cleats already so yeah). Or should I buy new red cleats again nonetheless and be safer along the way? Also, can you click out faster with the grey 4.5 degree cleats vs the red 9 degree cleats due to less float?
I think only you can decide based on what works for you. I prefer the red myself, and if you can click out / in faster it would be so minimal it's not worth the attention. Cam
Hey there, as Neill pointed out is generally the best idea to go with the one with the most float! This is definitely the safest option for your body. -RCA Team
I've noticed that my foot angle shifts when out of the saddle vs seated. My heels come in (toes point slightly outward) when out of the saddle and then return to neutral when seated. Not sure why but this occurs. I’ve been using speedplay for well over 25 years now.
So I am recovering from ACL injury and was told that cycling is one of the best things I can do right now. Which degree of cleat float will be the best after ACL or other knee injuries?
I just went from Shimano yellow cleats to Assioma power pedals with “look” red cleats and it feels like here’s too much float. Is there a downside to more float?
Is less float better for riding out of the saddle? I use Garmin Vector 3 pedals whose cleats have 6 degrees of float, but whenever I ride standing up (going uphill, not sprinting), it just feels like I have too much float. Also, I would appreciate your thoughts on Garmin Cycling Dynamics - do bike fitters consider them and is there an optimal set of numbers?
Hey there, Cleat float is one part of the whole bike fitting puzzle! Not having a properly supported foot inside the shoe will also cause instabilities especially when out of the saddle! Highly regarded bike fitters will be able to see a problem having this cycling dynamic data would only be used to prove their findings! -RCA Team
Personally I prefer zero-float cleats. I do very high mileage and long rides and have no issues. It definitely takes time to get your cleats set to the right position but once you do it just gives so much more assurance on the bike. It might not be the solution for everyone but after having tried various options it absolutely feels right for me.
I would add that the amount of float will change with cleat wear. My 0 degree Look cleats have only 1,000 miles or so on them and now feel like a normal 6 degree cleat. For me, less is more so I'm replacing with a new 0 degree cleat.
Hi I understand there is variations in float, but what I want to know for myself when my Wahoo speedplay nano pedals turn up later today is how do I work out how much float I need to set for each foot. I do have the Wahoo 5 indoor trainer, do I just see how they feel and adjust the float to what I think. Also why don't we just set the float to the maximum settings so that we have no restrictions in our movement, is it so that the least amount of float I need the better, so that its easier to disengage Many thanks in advance and much appreciated.
Once again, RCA has saved me from doing something not-so-smart. I have been tempted to change to a zero float cleat, because I thought getting the foot "locked in" is a good thing. Well, now I'm not and I'm glad I didn't. Also, a while back, I changed the cleat angle to where my foot pretty much points straight and I am going to change back square to the triangle (like at ~ 6:30).
I'm a duck-foot. My biggest problem is limiting my inward-rotation so that my heels don't mar the surface of the cranks. The result is I can't quite rotate as much as I'd like.
Might be pricey, but if you need more than a few mms that an extra spacer between the pedal and crank would provide, then many pedals out there offer wider axles. You can often replace your existing axles with wider ones as opposed to purchasing an entirely new set of pedals. Be careful with the cheapest option of adding pedal spacers if you need more than about 3mms. That can lead to problems since the pedal is designed to have its entire axle threaded into the crankarms.
Hey Franklin, as Dave pointed out as well there are wider stance pedal options and pedal spacers out there to achieve the result you are trying to! Plenty of options available to get your fit right! -RCA Team
@@davekashuba4730 Thanks - for some reason it didn't click that "more Q-factor" would be the solution, but it's super obvious to me now. My fitter actually slammed my cleats all the way to the inside to achieve "close to optimal". I had been doubting the wisdom of this and edging my cleats slightly outward since (and thus backing off the float to prevent marring). I also discovered that my Ti Speedplay pedals have -3mm Q compared to my stainless pair sitting in my toolbox. Maybe I need to switch back.
Hey Dirk, thanks for the comment. We would definitely question the theory of why you are limiting your body to do what it naturally wants to do instead of working with your bike fit to gain efficiency. Twisting your joints into an unnatural position and applying power is definitely not recommended! -RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy well, I have the feeling that my “natural position” would have me shaving the heel of my shoe against my cranks and that annoys me.
So what about gravel riders on spd-Sl (2 bolt) cleats? I wonder if I should move to spd or keo style. If I win the pedals in the giveaway then I’ll have no choice.
Absolutely hate float...fixed all the way for me - on track and road bike. Bont narrow shoes and zero float - indeed I love the rigidity. Started with Look red Delta, tried Speedplay but it's Look Keo black for me - and has been for years. Yes it requires precise set-up.
Absolutely hate float. Black zero degrees cleats for me. Float buggers up my right knee. If I don't have it locked in I'll get pain after an hour or so - also hate having my foot floating when I'm out of the saddle climbing or sprinting. Only disadvantage is cornering in crits where one wants to point the knee towards the corner more than allowed. Obviously harder to dial in the fit on zero degrees cleats, so float makes this easier. Bad fit will aggravate knee pain but correctly fit zero float saves my knees.
Hey Carlos, we would definitely be asking the question of why locking in your feet to a fixed position 'fixes' your position. If you are highly functional 6 degrees of float shouldn't aggravate anything! It would give you more room to get things right. Goodluck with your fit! -RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy right knee has always been sketchy. Zero float = no pain. 6 deg float = pain. Spent a winter experimenting and minimizing float solved the problem. been cycling pain free for more than 10 years. Even did an Everesting on zero float and my knee was fine.
I disagree. Float avails wiggle to your foot, then ankle, which it will...continuously. But your knee moves best without a sloppy lower. Tighten up, fly straight..no float.
As a cleat Is only one part of the whole bike fitting eco-system there is a lot of other moving parts that will effect your body. Having instability in the foot has the potential to make your foot 'wiggle' as it is trying to get stable. We would never recommend 'locking in' your foot to 'fix' instability. -RCA Team
Bike fitters arguing with individuals is always interesting to me (because I’m a bike fitter). Statistically the smart money is on the bike fitter because of sample size. I do about 15 fittings per week, an individual has a sample size of one. I would be the first to admit that there are people on the far end of the bell curve who need less movement, but that’s more about statistics than about bike fitting. Even in cases where an ACL or MCL was replaced and I don’t want rotation to stress the attachment point, I used SPD-SL blue cleats. During Covid Shimano ran out of yellow cleats. The buyer for my shop didn’t understand the difference (and didn’t ask me) so we wound up with red (non-rotational) cleats. Cleat fitting by phone doesn’t work, but there were a lot of people asking…
Thanks for "selling" me Speedplay and Lake, forgot about the knee pain and can run even more too now! Next time I'm in the Sunshine state, will get my roadie and TT fit by Neill!
There is a cleat fitting tool called R.A.D. Pedals (Rotational Angle Device) which is nothing more than a free floating pedal with indicators sticking out the side - I may be the only person who still uses them. When a rider pedals the bike the bottom indicator follows the foot angle while the top indicator stays perpendicular to the crank, so you can actually see the rotation as it happens. They do three things. First, they show the rider that their feet don’t really point straight forward and they are indeed asymmetrical. Second, they allow the fitter to put the cleat in the center of rotation. Third, they teach the fitter about the human body, and how different each one is. Being shown more information is why bike fitting is a science, not an art. Seeing actual differences when you make changes is how you get things right. One of the things not mentioned in this video is rotation of the foot changing the stance width, which isn’t uncommon. Alignment is hip to knee to ankle, if the foot rotation is forcing that in one direction the body will fight it. With the R.A.D. Pedals I can make lateral changes in cleat position and watch the results. For me the hardest cases are FAI (Femoral Ashtabula Impingement). The hip is a ball & socket, there’s no guarantee that the femur will rotate straight up and down. In normal life this isn’t a problem, as soon as your foot leaves the ground it’s free to go where it wants. The bike is the hardest case, the crank doesn’t allow for lateral movement. The R.A.D. Pedals make this easy to see.
The issue I have with SpeedPlay pedals is that they only have rotation. Float is the ability to move side to side at the cleat. FAI requires float as well as paying attention to Q-factor. SPD cleats are a whole other story - I’m dealing with them more and more as gravel bikes have gotten more popular…
I would also like to thank you for pushing me us use shims under cleats. The part I always question my judgement is the adaptive part - where the client rides the bike and their body adapts to the change. I also have seen far too many cases where fitters have made too much of a change and things go horribly wrong in the other direction. I can see asymmetry, I now have the confidence to add shims and I have a number of very happy customers to show for it. Once again, SPD cleats are a real problem as they don’t allow for shims…
I can’t help but feel that I would be a better fitter if I had an Aussie accent…
I have fixed so many things from the tips I’ve learned from you guys. Your videos are lit 🔥 Thanks
Cheers Chris.
My right foot rotates outward a good amount while walking, and rotating that cleat inward helps tremendously. Neill outlines the exact thing i’ve been experimenting with lately for optimal comfort.
We're glad you could find your optimal solution!
-RCA Team
Thanks for all the bike fitting videos lately. It's winter here and this is giving me a ton to tinker with on the indoor trainer.
Nice one Jason, thanks for sharing on the thread.
This single video is more informative than all of GCN's combined! Straight to the point with no BS which GCN's are full of BS.
I was using spd pedals. For me there was to much float in the pedals and it was irritating both of my legs. I been a runner for over 25 years. I bought some power meter pedals and also got some zero degree cleats. My pedal stroke feels so much smoother and natural. Yesterday I just did my longest ride which was 55 miles. About to go ride right now. The most important thing is that you know your body. I can't afford a bike fit so I do appreciate all these videos
Hey Kim, thanks for the comment. Float gives you a more room to get things wrong and not pay the price with your body! We hope have set up your cleats mm perfect! Goodluck
-RCA Team
Another point that is rarely discussed, is the difference between your seated and standing natural/optimal foot rotation. I don't see any reason for the natural angle with which the foot seats on the pedal to be the same when standing as when seating, at least in my case and with my 6° of float, I can feel and see my heels turning a bit outwards any time I get out of the saddle and vice versa. Probably doesn't matter much for a sprinter, but for someone who likes long climbs and spends extended periods of time out of the saddle, that could be important from both a comfort/injury prevention but also efficiency point of view.
Excellent point
Great content, man! Tried out the blue cleats, knee pain. When i switched back to the yellow ones, pain went away! Thanks a lot!
Keep using the yellow cleat I used the blue for 4 years and switched back to the yellow and my knees pain cures yellow all the way bro
100% agree!!! 👍 The only issue with lots of float is that it's harder to unclip.
I recreationally ride flat pedals just to let my feet do whatever they want in terms of q factor and angle.
Yes, that's a good point. Thanks for sharing on the thread Sheraz.
Flat pedal also great to fix pedaling strokes 👍🏼
i have knee pain when riding my bike. After lots of googling and reading all kinds of articles and testing pain was still there. This video explains what and how i need to adjust so that im comfortable on bike without the medial/lat knee pain. Im going to adjust the cleats and test this out. Thanks for the video explaination!
Yes! An please do stretchings of your IT band. Search it in TH-cam. It fixed my pain, get well
We're glad you are heading in the right direction!
-RCA Team
For some people like myself, I have to be careful not to have too much float as then can't unclip my pedals! I just don't have the ability to rotate my feet enough. My Shimano SPD-SL pedals came standard with yellow cleats and the results were disastrous! I bought a pair of blue cleats with less float and all is now good with the world! 🙌 🙌 🙌
I use the blue ones too. Just a little bit of float, and I got my cleat position locked in well enough that I never have knee pain anymore, so I better stick with it and just draw the cleat outline on the bottom of my shoes so I can install in the same location when my cleats wear out.
I experienced the same with the LOOK Keo cleats, I fell with the red 9 degree cleats to the side flat-faced due not being able to unclip my left foot out of the pedal. I changed now to the grey Look Keo cleats with 4.5 degree float and it seems I can unclip faster. Can't test it with the 9 degree red cleats to be sure since I threw them away after buying the grey cleats but the faster you hit the unlocking mechanism the faster you get out of the pedal it seems.
Thanks for excellent explanation. I love the depth of detail you used in your explanation.
Fantastic overview, I've been riding for over 10 years and never had knee pains so I didn't think I needed Speedplay, but I have been curious about different cleats and positions. Like everything else, I'm right in the middle of averages and will continue with my middle range of float. I've been curious about 0 degree but you answered for my long, long distance riding. Thank you!
Float is very useful!
-RCA Team
Last year I switched to Time xpresso pedals, they allows me to have natural feet position with nice float, but still securely connected to a bike. As a bonus you get low price and low weight 👍
We're glad you found your optimal position!
-RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy basically those pedals give you your optimal position, and you don't need to searching for it.
Thanks Neill and Cam for continually posting such quality fitting content.
No worries, thanks for the channel support.
l was riding red spdsl cleats cause it gave me more stability .. psychological. position was awful but l was highly functional. after having to sit for a year when covid hit and studying l nearly couldn't ride my bike. wen't back to my old worn our shoes, yellow cleats, overworked the whole position and it's way way better .... hate the yellow color but can't change that. did some damage to my calfes l'm dealing with for 2-3 years now, with horrible shoes and cleat position. will try out shorter cranks even tho my hips are free. still getting numb nuts but will see about that. this channel and francis cades bike fit tuesdays have helped me so so much. thank you
Hey Leon, we're glad you are on the right track to sorting out your issues!
-RCA Team
Great video and Neill clearly knows his stuff. I sure wish he lived in the US. I was getting numb on my right toes and figured out my foot was rotating outward in the shoe to compensate for the cleat being set wrong. I adjusted the cleat so my foot is now in the middle of the shoe and now I have happy toes! I'm a big fan of all the bike fitting content. Thanks.
We're glad you are getting great value from watching our channel!
-RCA Team
I’m curious for a longer ride, how much does the foot side-to-side heel rotation play around from fresh to being burnt up on durations. I think zero float would also help develop proper form, if and only if it is properly positioned. But the float’s movement will also help with the rider’s comfort for compensation on longer rides. I hope a video of a 3 hour ride on monitoring the feet’s movement from 1-2 and 3 hours affects the pressure changes on pressure mapping on the shoe interface itself.
Thank you for this video and for all the videos you two have been producing and sharing.
Thank you to you both for educating us….. 🙏🏽🙇🏽♂️👏🏽
I had a weird experience in which decreasing the float helped me a lot! For some reason the shimano yellow cleat was letting my feet go to a place maybe better for pedalling and generating force (heels inbd) but not to the liking of my knees. The blue cleat at the same position removed the issue. Go figure...
I think this is the best video I have seen to help me because before I saw this video I had my cleats fixed and thought that was the way to generate more power... But after having watch this video I have come to the understanding that I should go back to my 6 degree float.
Hey there!
More float definitely gives you more wiggle room to get things right!
-RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy I agree but all now I still have my 0° float... so far I have no problem with it... Should I really change back? I feel as though I can generate more power with 0° degrees ... What do you think?
Between yours and JT's BFT videos, I've learnt a lot in last few weeks.
Thanks Derek! We're glad we could help!
-RCA Team
Another excellent and instructional video presentation. Keep them coming please. Thanks to you both.
we're glad you like the content!
-RCA Team
This was interesting and thanks for the upload. I myself ride fixed cleat and always have. I do mainly ride crits and track with the occasional long ride (plus 6hrs) thrown in. I must just be one of the rare ones that don't have an issue with a fixed postion or maybe because I've been riding for around 30yrs now (with the sameish setup) my body has just grown into it? I've also had a few bike fits done over the years with not much deviation if at all from my normal setup. From my point of view re. the fixed cleat, as Neill points out, it's about feeling secure in a short sharp sprint. I have tried cleats with a little bit of float but I wasn't to keen with the "loser" feeling, especially with track. Cheers!
Hey Karl, we're glad you found an optimal fit that works, the 'loose' sensation is definitely a common topic when it comes to float. Properly set up cleats with float will allow your body to move naturally. There may be other physical challenges that have you feel this loose sensation.
-RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy Nah, no "physical challenges" just my preference. I'm not saying float is bad at all, I suppose I'm just saying I prefer fixed and have never had an issue with it and that one system doesn't fit all. Cheers
You missed out a significant contraindication to having float, in the case of riders that have mobility in the joints.
I used to use speedplay pedals as a novice, based on advice from people like yourself, that float would be good for my knee health. Yet I got pain in the left knee, because that knee has about 20⁰ of free movement. (If I sit in a chair with my knees at 90⁰, I can twist my lower leg outward by about 20⁰ at the knee). This is just a natural thing, never had an injury or anything.
With a floating pedal, random movements and such, especially when mountain biking on technical terrain, would cause left knee pain knee pain after a while.
With fixed cleats to constrain the movement I have never had any issue.
I have cartilage damage to both patella, right one has been repaired and is generally pain free in day to day life, left one hasn’t and usually hurts like shit from time to time… I ride with 2° because I was too worried about the discomfort that could be associated with my foot angle being out of position when bending and I don’t seem to have pain at all no matter how hard I ride… just doing squats with any amount of weight usually hurts, my bike seems to be the only way I’m able to workout my legs pain free
Different people sometimes need different solutions! We wish you the best of luck with all of your cycling endeavours!
-RCA Team
I am considering this as well. Having the same on my current SH51 and now would want to try the zero float SH50.
I read a very good article focusing on fixed cleats, was very convincing
Amazing advice!! I actually changed my Red Look KEO cleats for Grey Look KEO cleats for less float. But after watching this video I don't know whether that's the right choice or not (did throw away the old red cleats already so yeah). Or should I buy new red cleats again nonetheless and be safer along the way? Also, can you click out faster with the grey 4.5 degree cleats vs the red 9 degree cleats due to less float?
I think only you can decide based on what works for you. I prefer the red myself, and if you can click out / in faster it would be so minimal it's not worth the attention. Cam
@@roadcyclingacademy The red cleats are not that expensive (around 15 euros). I will order them new so I have some choice. Thanks for your answer!
I would like to hear Neill's thoughts on the minimal float cleats like Shimano blue.
I went from yellow to blue cos i found my feet were moving too much and unclipping is just quicker.
Hey there, as Neill pointed out is generally the best idea to go with the one with the most float! This is definitely the safest option for your body.
-RCA Team
As always another great informative video. Keep up the awesome videos.
Cheers Gavin! we're glad you like the comment!
-RCA Team
I've noticed that my foot angle shifts when out of the saddle vs seated. My heels come in (toes point slightly outward) when out of the saddle and then return to neutral when seated. Not sure why but this occurs. I’ve been using speedplay for well over 25 years now.
So I am recovering from ACL injury and was told that cycling is one of the best things I can do right now. Which degree of cleat float will be the best after ACL or other knee injuries?
I just went from Shimano yellow cleats to Assioma power pedals with “look” red cleats and it feels like here’s too much float.
Is there a downside to more float?
Is less float better for riding out of the saddle? I use Garmin Vector 3 pedals whose cleats have 6 degrees of float, but whenever I ride standing up (going uphill, not sprinting), it just feels like I have too much float. Also, I would appreciate your thoughts on Garmin Cycling Dynamics - do bike fitters consider them and is there an optimal set of numbers?
Hey there,
Cleat float is one part of the whole bike fitting puzzle! Not having a properly supported foot inside the shoe will also cause instabilities especially when out of the saddle! Highly regarded bike fitters will be able to see a problem having this cycling dynamic data would only be used to prove their findings!
-RCA Team
How often do you use cleat wedges for varus tilt?
Personally I prefer zero-float cleats. I do very high mileage and long rides and have no issues. It definitely takes time to get your cleats set to the right position but once you do it just gives so much more assurance on the bike. It might not be the solution for everyone but after having tried various options it absolutely feels right for me.
I would add that the amount of float will change with cleat wear. My 0 degree Look cleats have only 1,000 miles or so on them and now feel like a normal 6 degree cleat. For me, less is more so I'm replacing with a new 0 degree cleat.
Great video. How about SPD/Mtb cleat ?
Float is king!
-RCA Team
Hi I understand there is variations in float, but what I want to know for myself when my Wahoo speedplay nano pedals turn up later today is how do I work out how much float I need to set for each foot. I do have the Wahoo 5 indoor trainer, do I just see how they feel and adjust the float to what I think. Also why don't we just set the float to the maximum settings so that we have no restrictions in our movement, is it so that the least amount of float I need the better, so that its easier to disengage
Many thanks in advance and much appreciated.
Once again, RCA has saved me from doing something not-so-smart. I have been tempted to change to a zero float cleat, because I thought getting the foot "locked in" is a good thing. Well, now I'm not and I'm glad I didn't. Also, a while back, I changed the cleat angle to where my foot pretty much points straight and I am going to change back square to the triangle (like at ~ 6:30).
We're glad we advise you to stay on the right path! Happy Riding!
-RCA Team
Any suggestions for the heel not touching the crank or the frame for duck feet guys?
I'm a duck-foot. My biggest problem is limiting my inward-rotation so that my heels don't mar the surface of the cranks. The result is I can't quite rotate as much as I'd like.
Might be pricey, but if you need more than a few mms that an extra spacer between the pedal and crank would provide, then many pedals out there offer wider axles. You can often replace your existing axles with wider ones as opposed to purchasing an entirely new set of pedals. Be careful with the cheapest option of adding pedal spacers if you need more than about 3mms. That can lead to problems since the pedal is designed to have its entire axle threaded into the crankarms.
Hey Franklin, as Dave pointed out as well there are wider stance pedal options and pedal spacers out there to achieve the result you are trying to! Plenty of options available to get your fit right!
-RCA Team
@@davekashuba4730 Thanks - for some reason it didn't click that "more Q-factor" would be the solution, but it's super obvious to me now. My fitter actually slammed my cleats all the way to the inside to achieve "close to optimal". I had been doubting the wisdom of this and edging my cleats slightly outward since (and thus backing off the float to prevent marring). I also discovered that my Ti Speedplay pedals have -3mm Q compared to my stainless pair sitting in my toolbox. Maybe I need to switch back.
Must Have
Hi! I put My cleat in neutral position but My right heel toches sometimes the Crank, what should i do??? Thanks
I use a smaller float so I can limit my heel to not touch the cranks and still clip out without having to turn my foot that far.
Hey Dirk, thanks for the comment. We would definitely question the theory of why you are limiting your body to do what it naturally wants to do instead of working with your bike fit to gain efficiency. Twisting your joints into an unnatural position and applying power is definitely not recommended!
-RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy well, I have the feeling that my “natural position” would have me shaving the heel of my shoe against my cranks and that annoys me.
@@dirktolboom4060 Same with me; occasionally i rub the crank but it is how it is. A wider q-factor would be best (assioma shi for example)
So what about gravel riders on spd-Sl (2 bolt) cleats? I wonder if I should move to spd or keo style. If I win the pedals in the giveaway then I’ll have no choice.
Spd-sl pedals have float options as well so there is definitely ways to get solve your issues! We wish you the best in the giveaway!
-RCA Team
What's the weight limit for this bike
Absolutely hate float...fixed all the way for me - on track and road bike. Bont narrow shoes and zero float - indeed I love the rigidity. Started with Look red Delta, tried Speedplay but it's Look Keo black for me - and has been for years. Yes it requires precise set-up.
Nice thanks
I'm still using that same 3 velcro strap shoe 🙈
A classic!
-RCA Team
Looks like you raised the levers on the SEKA
haha, nah they're the same. Cam
Haven't gotten around to it yet 😃
Mate whre can order brand r9120?
The bike industry is definitely taking a hit on all of the bike components!
-RCA Team
Absolutely hate float. Black zero degrees cleats for me. Float buggers up my right knee. If I don't have it locked in I'll get pain after an hour or so - also hate having my foot floating when I'm out of the saddle climbing or sprinting. Only disadvantage is cornering in crits where one wants to point the knee towards the corner more than allowed. Obviously harder to dial in the fit on zero degrees cleats, so float makes this easier. Bad fit will aggravate knee pain but correctly fit zero float saves my knees.
Hey Carlos, we would definitely be asking the question of why locking in your feet to a fixed position 'fixes' your position. If you are highly functional 6 degrees of float shouldn't aggravate anything! It would give you more room to get things right. Goodluck with your fit!
-RCA Team
@@roadcyclingacademy right knee has always been sketchy. Zero float = no pain. 6 deg float = pain. Spent a winter experimenting and minimizing float solved the problem. been cycling pain free for more than 10 years. Even did an Everesting on zero float and my knee was fine.
Good god, he speaks on every subject like he's been doing it for 50 years.
I disagree. Float avails wiggle to your foot, then ankle, which it will...continuously. But your knee moves best without a sloppy lower. Tighten up, fly straight..no float.
As a cleat Is only one part of the whole bike fitting eco-system there is a lot of other moving parts that will effect your body. Having instability in the foot has the potential to make your foot 'wiggle' as it is trying to get stable. We would never recommend 'locking in' your foot to 'fix' instability.
-RCA Team
Bike fitters arguing with individuals is always interesting to me (because I’m a bike fitter). Statistically the smart money is on the bike fitter because of sample size. I do about 15 fittings per week, an individual has a sample size of one. I would be the first to admit that there are people on the far end of the bell curve who need less movement, but that’s more about statistics than about bike fitting. Even in cases where an ACL or MCL was replaced and I don’t want rotation to stress the attachment point, I used SPD-SL blue cleats. During Covid Shimano ran out of yellow cleats. The buyer for my shop didn’t understand the difference (and didn’t ask me) so we wound up with red (non-rotational) cleats. Cleat fitting by phone doesn’t work, but there were a lot of people asking…
Thanks for "selling" me Speedplay and Lake, forgot about the knee pain and can run even more too now! Next time I'm in the Sunshine state, will get my roadie and TT fit by Neill!
We're glad to help! We'll be here when you need us!
-RCA Team