@@kellykubik4514 its currently around 6 euros a litre and normal fuel is about 1.4 euros a litre so its pretty expensive but as more use it they should enter economies of scale and prices will fall because the fuel market *with alternatives, is elastic therefore the lower the price the more people will proportionally consume. This is only the case if you can choose between fossil and synthetic because otherwise its a cartel and you have to consume one. Such as in the UK our fuel prices are incredibly high even when global oil prices are lower than they were before the ukraine war.
How about instead of hope we just vote out all the controlled commie scum in government? Climate change is a scam. No one voted for any of the measures they're forcing on us
@@carnage123 E-fuels are completely synthetic fuels made from water hydrogen and atmospheric CO2. That's why their carbon footprint is 0. Because they use the CO2 they produce (by compustion) to create new fuel, it's basically recyclation (you only need energy - a lot of it - to produce the fuel).
F1 will be using it from 2026, when Ford and Audi enters. This still doesn't change anything about EVs. E-fuels will be way to expensive for a long time.
Former Porsche CEO and current Volkswagen CEO Oliver Blume publicly announced, that "within the volkswagen corporation, E-Fuels will mainly be a topic for Porsche". Please note that Volkswagen owns Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini. E-Fuels are not intended to "save the ICE". It's intended to postpone the death of the ICE 911 to make it even more legendary as the last ICE-Sportscar.
Concerned about the cost of synthetic fuels. Although if there's more competition it should drive the price down. Hopefully we'll get it cheaper than current fuel prices one day.
The other problem is if they did go full electric the electricity will be absolutely ridiculous to make up the cost of losing fossil fuels. So if this works we can still keep combustion engines which is great. The price of things rising will happen either way it’s always a money scheme regardless
The production efficiency is at around 2% at the moment and the physical limit is 6%. Meaning that it will be 50 times more expensive per kilometer than driving a regular ev.
Actually from 2026 all f1 cars will use e-fuel...this decision was made a couple of years ago😁...and also don't worry, f1 won't become full electric...they already confirmed this...
@@jeanmarie97Atm the production costs are around 40$ a gallon. That can easily go down to 10$ a gallon if it's mass produced. But that's just the production costs without taxes and profit for the manufacturer
People should know two things; 1. Porsche did not invent e fuels, they are not new as a concept. It's chemistry that has been tried for a century. 2. They have more challenges that fossil fuel and EVs for the foreseeable future. Sorry to be a downer bro! I had hope once 😂
Its about scale, if you had ebery electricity plant in your country store in efuel instead of battery it would be cheaper. Do you think storing in lithium ion batteries is cheap? The trade off woiod be its not as efficient as storing in a battery, the benefit, the heat from batteries could boil the oceans in 400 years as they release constant heat that is already starting to impact the world. The benefit is also, tanks can never be electric, either can armoured cars, so you can produce fuel for your self defence.
We knew about synthetic fuel for decades. People were watching big brother instead. Hey Matt, thanks for talking about this. I've been watching your channels since car buyer 😂
@@sugarnads Yes, and the photoelectric cell goes back to 1912, I think. The road from invention to mass production can be a long one. That's the problem.
Industry gaslighting. Won't work at scale. Oil is energy produced for free by nature. There's a reason the never seen before growth of the 20th century that built our modern societies (while destroying our climate and ecosystems) came with Petrol. Guess what happens next, when you don't get anywhere near the same energy efficiency with renewables or synthetic fuels ? :|
As it can be turned into a diesel fuel, I presume it will be possible to produce bunker oil as well. Which would be great news for the shipping industry. They wouldn't have to overhaul the whole fleet and replace every engine in there. As burning bunker oil produces a worse air quality then diesel or petrol it would be a great option for cruise ships and every other ship which docks within cities to start off with.
I will be so unbelievably happy if Porsche manage to pull this off. We need to get behind them and push our local politicians to be more aware of this! Fuck the fossil fuels business! Politicians can affect business and they could help shape shell and bp into synthetic fuel plus electricity energy providers instead
This reminds me of the time when all the automatic watch industry was about to go instinct when seiko introduced the quartz movement. But then audemar pique developd royak oak and the automatic watches were saved.
There is just one important problem with the video: the e-fuel exception has not been added to the law yet. They intend to do that within the next few years, but there is no guarantee that it will definitely be added. As written today, the law only permits EV's and hydrogen for category B vehicles after 2035.
I'm impressed that I found that this amazing experimental Porsche plant is in our country by watching Carwow. This is not even mentioned in our news channels or papers. Btw, it's a paradox that they are thinking in something to replace electric vehicles in a country that have just a couple hundreds in their roads and almost no charging stations.
It's been mentioned many times over a few years, but mainstream media, probably paid off by EV-linked money and influence, have kept as silent as possible about it.
I hope this actually comes to fruition. As an EV owner, it is blatantly clear that EVs aren't for everyone and an alternative needs to exist to be able to sustain mobility. I am not too convinced about liquid hydrogen cars as of yet and it would pose a similar conundrum to EVs with the infrastructure to support them. But e-fuels really do hold a lot of value as the transition to them is not as far fetched and maintains a lot of the current infrastructure intact for petrol vehicles. Good luck to all pushing this forward.
Apart from the actual gas stations non of the infrastructure beforehand can be used. You need: New power plants (solar, wind, storage), Water supply or desalination plants, water purifiers, electrolysers, storage for hydrogen, Carbon capture plants, E-fuel plants The larger projects right now (Chile) als need transport infrastructure.
@@theipc-twizzt2789 I was talking strictly about the distribution infrastructure which is the primary problem for EV owners and mass EV adoption. Production infrastructure development would come from most current fuel developers as they'll need to adapt or disappear. In terms of requiring carbon neutrality from the production infrastructure power source, if the countries are still not 100% non-fossil sourced, then it's a little hypocritical to request the same from the production facilities. It defeats the purpose when you charge an EV with a still primarily fossil driven power grid such as EU or US. That needs to be developed by each country's plan to shift but shouldn't be a dissuasive to change petrol for alternative fueling. As they say, every little helps and with time all pieces of the puzzle will line up.
@@adrian8426 There is no point in burning fossil fuels to create synthetic fuels. You do realize that this would increase CO2 emissions? The advantage of battery based cars is precisely that: Even with an 100% fossil energy grid they have 10-20% lower lifetime CO2 emissions than burning fuel directly in an ICE car. This is due to combined cycle power plants beeing up to 60% efficient. So no - the point you make should not be considered. The only thing that should be considered is CO2 emissions. If E fuels emit more CO2 than fossil fuels then they should not be allowed. It they emit less they are fine. I fail to see how the power grid is a limiting factor in this. Even in the worst case assumption the grid would need to grow by less than 2% per year to accomodate a fully electric vehicle fleet by 2040. I invite you to do your own calculations, but this should be somewhat accurate. Using home storage, virtual power plants and vehicle to grid should all alleviate this problem.
e-fuels do not solve the problem of localised pollution. They still 'burn stuff'...so people living along main routes in cities will get no relief from NoX, S02 and particulates. The root of the problem is internal combustion, whatever it is you're burning. There is a better technology which solves this problem, we have it already and it is growing fast.
This all assumes that the push for zero CO2 emission vehicles is about saving the planet from global warming. EVs warm the planet in their own way (increased CO2 emission at production than ICE vehicles and increased thermal load to atmospheric from power generation and distribution. As predicted by the The Club of Rome in 1970s the tipping point for the atmosphere was reached in the 1990s, nothing can save the planet now. EVs or (e)fuel ICE is just another wealth pumping exercise from the poor and middle income groups to the already wealthy.
One challenge you addressed was volume, but you didn't mention cost. eFuels need to be produced in huge volume and low cost, or they won't move the needle. Let's hope they can meet our needs.
Volume and cost are highly correlated. The raw efuel will be more expensive for sure. Somewhere between 2-3 times. Cars with bigger cylinders can run cheaper fuel, downsized highly compressed turbocharged engines have far more requirements on the fuel. 😅 in Europe we have so much taxes on fuel that double the raw price would even effect the customer, if politics could waive their share. ^^ i mean they collected it in the name of climate in the first place. In the US price will most likely increase around 50%. But this technology is still emerging and needs embedding in several big existing industries. The amount of inaccuracy in these guesses is huge as it has so many variables that will change for sure.
I guess they won't and they will attract a premium in cost. Stick with a modern EV as by the time EV fuels are here you will have the 1000Km range cars and for most that once a month charge.
Incorrect statement Brian. The preservation of fuel production is intended to ensure all previous high value vehicles can continue to be used and sold without having to change ICE. The volumetrics required just simply can’t and won’t happen with the phase out of ICE vehicles. This isn’t for you, it’s for me and those that can afford the pricey cars everyone else looks at.
Kudos to Porsche and Siemens for pioneering e-fuels for cars. But this is gonna cost something like €20 per L. The market will probably be limited to vintage car owners and certain race events. Still really good that vintage cars will have something to run on in the future.
"But this is gonna cost something like €20 per L." The people at Porsche and Siemens estimate that e-fuels can be produced for about 1 € to 1 €. So in the long run, they price might be low enough to rival charging a BEV. If you produce e-fuels in Saudi-Arabia where they think that 1 kWh will cost you 1 Cent, the price will go down even further.
The price will ultimately depend entirely on the scale of production. If we see production plants all over the world pumping e-fuel out at the rate we have been producing petrol until now there's no reason the prices wouldn't come down to a manageable level. The initial investment would be high of course and initial prices would have to offset that. But once you got the infrastructure set up and you're making fuel out of air and solar power, it just might be super cheap.
Just started watching this on April fools day, so taking this with a pinch of salt, but see the video was published the day before AND I know Porsche is working in new fuels.
@@CaptainKedah so were electric cars, and still are to an extent. as time goes on technology improves and so does the system and infrastructure necessary
It's worth to mention that cars on E-fuels may be carbon neutral but they won't be zero emmision vehicles because in combustion process in earth atmosphere harmful NOx particles will still be formed. Don't see it getting cheaper than EV's either but the technology itself is really interesting. In the end majority of people will choose a cheaper option so we will see how it will turn out.
Unless the whole supply chain uses e-fuels it will never but carbon neutral. I'd love for them to work and to be cost effective but I can't see why when the amount of energy in efuel that a car will use an EV with the initial amount of power to make that Efuel could go 4-5 times as far as efuel are seriously inefficient
Don't worry about emissions, there are plenty of IC invention patents that have not been used for too many decades. We will see an avalanche of "new" technologies not related to the fuel itself but how it gets managed to the engine.
This won´t happen unfortunately. E-fuels just burn energy on mass, they are really really REALLY bad efficiency wise. It´s probably by far the worst solution. There is no way we could ever produce enough energy in a sustainable way to create nearly enough e-fuel for it to be somewhat affordable. It would be about 2-5x price increase. It´s basically a marketing gag at this point. E-fuels make sense for airplanes because they have to be light and have other limitations but for cars ? Never. Also I am saying that as a mechanical engineer and I do prefer combustion engines, it´s just not happening.
@/O/ If it´s generated out of biomass why not use sewage instead ? Otherwise you would have to harvest that stuff in the ocean instead which is not really practical and costly, you have to transport it and so on this also probably wastes more energy than generated back by the seaweed. But okay I see it´s just an idea of yours. Also don´t forget this biomass is probably needed by the ocean for something. It is an eco system after all, a closed loop. Something similar is already done with cow poo. But I mean how many of those "station" would you need to be able to generate the energy all modern cars need ? The problem is that oil is pretty damn good. It´s cheap, abundant, easily transported, has a very high energy density. You simply can´t beat this. The process to create any sort of E-fuels is always longer than simply using batteries. The pures form of energy would be electricity. To create E-fuels you need. Electricity --> hydrogen / methane. So instead of using electricity you use it to produce something else and so on, the efficiency simply isn´t there. I mean you can do that but why ? You can instead simply produce more batteries or use those resources otherwise.
I’ve been an electric car owner for almost 10 years. It has been the best car ownership experience I’ve ever had thanks to charging. Matt, you told us all of the down sides of electric cars. But none of the downsides to keeping an internal combustion engine. Like still needing oil changes, or transmission fluid on occasion. Or the hundreds of moving parts in an ICE that means more mechanical maintenance over time. Not complaining but there was no fair balance.
@@jontyrocks3 saving themselves from having to spend on making changes. Mr. Toyoda doesn’t want to put all his eggs in one basket, I think that was hilarious to point out. We’ve had our eggs in one basket for over a century with internal combustion, so why the comment. Just an excuse to slow things down.
synthetic fuels is a really good concept , to put it simply you can either charge 3 batteries for one run (synthetic fuel) or charge a single battery for one run! its efficient to use batteries , but i really hope this tech develops!
The only problem is the cost. I heard that a gallon of e-fuel cost twice the current price of a gallon of petrol. They need to lower the cost somehow or else, common people won't be able to afford it. I hope this seriously work out tho. I love ICE cars a lot and i hope they don't die out. And EVs and e-fuel cars can perfectly coexist together. EVs for daily usage and e-fuel cars for long trips which means we get the best of both worlds.
It's not twice the price, it's multiples. eFuels need at least 5x the energy to move an ICE the same distance an EV would move, so it will always be WAY more expensive than EV's, it's just physics. There's no way around it.
@@TheXextreem Well... no. I got two Porsche, but I am pretty Sure I can't buy a plane. Although, maybe a used Cessna is possible. Might look it up some day. Need a license first, however
Two things: 1. You still need a massive abundance of renewable energy to make eFuels carbon neutral. In fact even more energy is needed than if you just used the renewable energy to charge electric cars. The eFuel manufacturing process is much less efficient than the transmission of electricity and charging an EV. 2. Even carbon neutral eFuels don't give cities any air quality benefit in the way that EVs do. I would much rather resources be focused on building out EV (or hydrogen) infrastructure than eFuels
There is unfortunately one big problem as of right now with E-Fuels: Efficiency! They're about 4 to 5x less efficient than electric batteries, which means that the energy required to keep an ICE car with E-Fuel running is much higher than that of an electric car. Therefor much more power plants are required. However, this does not mean that's its not possible. Fusion reactors are on their way and we're still not even close to fully utilizing the sun as our primary energy source. On top of that, who says that electric cars and ICE cars can't exist together? Not every car needs to run E-Fuels and not every car needs to be electric. In an ideal world we would have E-Fuels, Electric and Hydrogen and even some regular Diesel/Petrol cars.
Yeah the video left out a few VERY important points. I think in my perfect world the would all co-exist together. You have Efuels for old ICE cars or ICE sports cars, BEV for your general individual transport and maybe hydrogen for trucks and ships. We'll see how that goes...
Hydrogen sucks for efficiency too. Even green hydrogen (i.e. produced by splitting water into hydrogen & oxygen) takes 3-4x as much energy to produce, ship, store and turn back to electricity as just charging a battery. And hydrogen usually isn't green, but instead produced during petrochemical processing. It was boosted by the oil industry and laggards like Toyota to sow some FUD around EVs and green tech. About the only viable future for hydrogen is when you have a surplus of energy which would otherwise go to waste if it wasn't captured somehow. Even then, there are probably better ways of doing it.
One big problem you sadly did not mention: Currently the production of e-fuels uses so much energy, that if you charge the ev directly instead of creating efuel with the energy you drive about 4 times as far with it. so if this cannot be driven up to at least a 1:1 or better it is economicaly always a lot more feasable to charge an EV with the power instead of creating efuel. Hopefully they will find a way to get this ratio better...
@@Rezcuz There was a village full of people who thought they knew everything. They would argue and debate about all kinds of topics, but no one could ever agree on anything. One day, a wise old man came to the village and said, "You know, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know." The villagers were outraged. "What do you mean you don't know everything? We know everything!" they exclaimed. So the wise old man decided to test their knowledge. He asked them a series of simple questions, like "What's the capital of France?" and "Who wrote 'Romeo and Juliet'?" But much to his surprise, no one in the village could answer any of the questions correctly. The wise old man chuckled and said, "Looks like you don't know everything after all." The villagers were humbled and realized that there was still so much for them to learn. From that day on, they made an effort to seek knowledge and never assumed they knew everything again.
Akio Toyoda should be applauded. They’re just saying (politically correctly) that EVs are NOT the *only* solution… 👏 👏 Simple common sense that’s clearly lacking in the EU.
@@Gryf_ If you have watched the video then you do not understand the issues. Neither hydrogen nor "e-fuels" are the answer to the world's problems. The EU exception for e-fuels is made on political grounds, not scientific or economic grounds,
Yeah well "they" probably don't want it to be common. "They" don't care about carbon emissions. It's about limiting mobility of the general population.
@@fradaja That's the right answer. Science journals have written about e-fuels before. it's always spoken of as mostly a pipe dream with little chance of actual success compared to other emerging technologies. e-fuel is what happens when the status quo gets toppled. e-fuel is like e-horses. Once the car came around, horses weren't that useful. Once electric motors came around, making a huge drivetrain and a massive engine just so we can listen to the vroom vrooms made less and less sense by the year... A battery, speed regulator and two small electric motors is just a better way to make a car.. No gearbox, no axels, no engine.. We're going from a thousand moving parts to like two RC motors and the steering column and its assembly.. The main concern is how to store energy, and how to make magnets without causing havoc to the planet.
I hope this technology takes off, as I want to keep driving interesting cars for years to come. But on the slow EV gone charging: I have driven an EV for two years now, and have only used public chargers for very long distance drives (over 400 km). When I charge at home, it doesn't matter that it's slow. I'm not sitting around waiting for it. I'm doing other stuff, like sleeping...
It's a nice idea but I think e-fuel will likely be the fuel of professional racing and the ultra wealthy. Current pricing on e-fuel is roughly $40 USD per gallon. More than likely EVs will be the dominant option for most drivers and enthusiast cars will have a much higher price tag with disgustingly high fuel cost.
You like most people are clueless about the paucity of raw materials for batteries etc. the world's known reserves of lithium are insufficient to supply batteries for the forcast uptake of EVs and certainly replacement batteries.
@@RC-fm6bj Actually there IS enough lithium in the world to replace all cars. The current production just needs to scale up accordingly. If we are able to spend billions of dollars to extract billions of barrels of oil, we should be more than able to extract the same amounts of lithium.
You forgot the main issue with synthetic fuel, it's the price ! I read that if made in large scale synthetic fuel could go down as low as 2€/liter to make. You have to compare that with fossil fuel that cost about 0,13€ per liter to extract and refine. IN THE BEST CASE SCENARIO, SYNTHETIC FUEL WOULD BE 15x MORE EXPENSIVE than fossil fuel ! It's fine for supercars on a track but it is not a solution for everyone in the near future.
Work out what these fuels will cost. They will be good for occasional drives in a classic, and maybe for formula 1, but they will be far too expensive to use for transport.
Why hasn't anyone been doing videos on porsche's syn fuel. It's been in research for ages. This is the hope the community needed and the community just ignored it for years.
Because it's a pipe dream. Way too expensive and inefficient. It's just a last ditch effort from Porsche to somehow keep a small number of ICE alive for rich enthusiasts. It's very obvious for everyone in Europe that this was something enabled by a hand full of German politicians who were lobbied heavily by Porsche. ICE's will die for the vast majority of car customers for good. BEV's are just the objectively better option for at least 95% of car customers, so they will choose a BEV over an ICE. Not because politicians are forcing them to but because they want to.
@@mostbeautifulroads9789 Bro what are you even saying, this tech is still in it's early days of development, it will get cheaper over time. And it's not just porsche doing this, you've got toyota and other automotive manufacturers working on it too. It seems like you're some kind of EV fanboy that just can't accept the fact that they may not be the future after all. And BEV's are definitely not the objectively better option for at least 95% of car customers, where do you even get these numbers, EV's are way too expensive and unpractical for the average customer.
@@stanisawkwasniewski2087 as you said before it will get cheaper over time evs wont be this expensive forever you have pretty much every brand working on it. Also we don't even know if the Porsche fuel will work.
@@stanisawkwasniewski2087 "Bro" I'm anything but an EV fanboy I'm still driving powerful ICE cars and enjoy them but I'm also less connected emotionally to the concept of ICE than seemingly a lot of people here are, enabling me to accept that eFuels will never beat BEVs in efficiency, in fact they won't even come close. Completely ignoring the fact that the production of eFuels is already insanely wasteful even IF it could be produced with zero losses compared to electric energy (and that is a HUGE if!) internal combustion engines are sitting at 40% efficiency in the very very very best cases (ignoring 2-stroke diesels from big ship engines) while BEVs are already doing twice that. Furthermore most manufacturers are completely canceling or MASSIVELY scaling back their ICE programm (E.g. Mercedes reducing their ICE investments by 80% until 2026) meaning ICE will fall back even further, also meaning less demand for eFuels, meaning higher costs due to economies of scale. And in terms of BEVs being too expensive another user already mentioned that they are getting cheaper by the day, while you seem to give the benefit of the doubt to eFuels becoming MASSIVELY cheaper (we are talking orders of magnitude here) in there near future despite most likely having very little demand (since there's hardly any manufacturers going down that route, for a reason.) you don't seem to give this benefit of the doubt to BEVs as well. In terms of them being "impractical": BEVs ALREADY easily cover the distance needed for most consumers on a single charge, all this while not even having to see a gas station anymore due go being able to charge at home, and the charging stations at home will only become more and more common. EV ranges are increasing by the day as well. EVs are more comfortable, need way less maintenance and are simpler and cheaper to maintain, don't need to be warmed up, will have you go through less brakepads/discs, etc. Sorry "bro" I hate to break it to you but BEVs will become more and more established and for good reasons. It seems you're emotionally invested in ICE technology so Porsche will maybe cater to your needs but don't expect it to be cheap in any way since you'll be paying the massive costs of ICE development split up between very little quantities and will have to use a fuel that will be hardly available and very expensive, no matter how much you wish for it to be otherwise, sorry. It's simple physics unfortunately.
@@stanisawkwasniewski2087 if I may interject here. There are major problems with both EVs and ICEVs. To ignore either side is being a fan boy. Personally, I'd like a vehicle that can be refuelled anywhere, has minimal maintenance, is safe, and built in such a way that it has negligible effects on the environment. Let's face it neither side of the equation has it all, or even a majority. A good hybrid system, in my opinion, is the best option for now, but the sustainer must be very efficient, cheap, and light weight, as well as being simple with low maintenance cost. On the battery side of the equation, having a smaller battery pack, can save on weight and improve charge times as well as lessen the amount of resources needed to mine and refine the materials needed to create it. The more range a battery pack gives you, the less environmentally friendly it becomes. I'd say a range of 50miles(freedom units) is sufficient to travel on the battery alone. This will get you to and from work, and to a service station if your ICE sustainer is inoperable. The future is also very uncertain, and we have no idea what new technology, or government intervention is going to come down the pipe, and cause our extinction.
Germany was fighting to extend the deadline for ICE powered vehicles. Synthetic fuels are still going to create pollution. JCB has been developing hydrogen ICE (H-ICE) engines for their plant machinery. Harry's Garage was recently visiting JCB. They originally started with modifying existing engines, but due to the technical challenges, they've had to design an all-new engine for H-ICE. Significantly quieter than diesel, with H2O being the only emission out the exhaust. The challenge is capturing hydrogen cleanly and for the cost to be similar to current fuels.
Hyrogen cars are nothing new. BMW experimented with them a lot over 20 years ago. But this system does not work. The fact that it requires so much energy to produce hydrogen alone makes this technology not feasible
@Leo Mühring I'd rather pay the expense and keep the internal combustion engine alive then charge am E.V! E.V are great and all that, but combustion engines make you feel alive and connected to the vehicle! 💯
Europe had a roadmap for net zero fuel since 2012. We mixed net zero components in the refinery process. It should be increased from 5% to 100% over several 4 year steps. Didn't happen as we couldn't scale these process to the required fuel consumption. But it's great that politics decided to keep diversity in technology alive rather then decemating it down to battery powered vehicles. Ship's planes and trains can be loaded so heavy that electricity can't provide enough power over distance. And it helps reducing emissions of existing cars a lot. But for now you can drive ~5 times as far in an EV from the power used to make e-fuels. But both technologies will keep evolving after the new regulations. So it stays interessting.
It baffles me that this is supposedly news. F1 is currently in the process of using higher % of synth fuel and manufacturers like VW, Ford, Honda, Renault, Mercedes and some more have shown huge interest in the technology.
I love how you paint it. You describe: "Basically one minister making a U-turn, ignoring every political decision making so far to get his will (who is known to be very liberal towards companies) to let the upper class can profit from fuel that needs to be highly subsidized" as "A company saved the whole petrol engine with tech, that convinced all decision makers that this is a bad idea".
@@rb.x it is the best option we have right now, b/c it is the most efficient. E-Fuel and Hydrogen will not work b/c they are not efficient enough to be used by the Steel and chemisrty industries and be used as a fuel source for Cars of the General public.
Where do you live? It’s my favourite car ever and still haven’t managed to get my hands on one due to life commitments and so on. I live in west part of London close to M25. I would pay you to take me for a ride in it !
@@japanluv Life commitments do slow up these things unfortunately, as does everything costing so much! Don't drive mine as much as i'd like, but hoping to get some good drives in it this year after i've fixed a couple things. I'm based in the Portsmouth area. If we're ever in the same area, i'd be happy to take you for a spin, no charge
What about the costs per litre? And the fact that it's made in Brazil and shipped half way across the world. From the costs I've seen best case is 20quid a litre. This is purely to help some car companies survive? It won't be affordable for most people
@@beanapprentice1687 True. People need to research the numbers involved. To provide a hypothetical world with 100% EVs in the would take a pessimistic 15 PWh in renewables. 26PWh less than is currently used in oil for ICEs. To provide e-Fuels for current ICEs would take 77PWh in renewables 36PWh more than currently. The total primary energy consumption of the world is ~170 PWh. The world is struggling to implement enough renewables to meet the EVs target until 2050. Assuming to meet the E-Fuel target in 2035 is insane.
@@guenthermichaels5303 Do you have a source other than anti EV propaganda for this statement? E-Fuels will be needed but they don’t make economic sense for passenger cars. Guess what the politicians “fighting“ for e-fools did 2nd? Right, asking for subsidies.
Only problem with this is the EU have said only new ICE vehicles from 2035 will be allowed to run on e fuels and according to Grant Shapps the UK will not be following the EU on this "because we now longer have to"... another Brexit benefit!
I have known this for a long time it’s why I have not jumped on the electric car bandwagon. Hopefully by the rule change I can still buy an ICE car. 🤞🏻
It is insane but not for the reasons you think. Synthetic fuels require at least four times as much energy to drive an ICE car a particular distance as an EV. They will never be economic.
@@ahihatv468 This is far from being true. This is because the process of creating e fuels is extremly inefficient due to conversion losses. So what you do is istead of charging a Battery, you take already produced electricity from renewable energies to create hydrogen out of warter (~30% losses) then you need to extract CO2 from the atmosphere (also extrem inefficient) then you create your e fuel in a reactor (more losses) and transport the fuel to your gas station. At the end you get about 17% efficiency from well to wheel instead of ~85% using a electric car.
@@LionAndi inefficiency isn’t the main problem to the consumer here. Since the resources used for efuel production is pretty much infinite. The main problem will be higher price itself. But this much progress in such a short time is made by only one company and now TOYOTA and STELLANTIS (two of the biggest automotive companies) have also decided to support Porsche and e-fuels. The problem of high gas prices is likely to go down as mass production takes place and cost of transportation is significantly reduced. In fact, by 2025 the price for it is expected to drastically go down.
I’ve noticed the tendency for some to over simplify hydrogen as; It’s water man! It’s actually hydrogen and divorcing the hydrogen molecule takes a great deal of energy and cost.
Did you know that Porsche was the first to really implement the idea of Hybrid function to fruition? They were tasked among other people during the war to come up with Tank ideas. At the time, the technology wasn’t there to fully support the idea reliably. But Porsche made a tank that had a gas engine to power the electric motors, that moved the tank tracks
E-fuel will take 10 times more energy than batteries to move a car, it means that you have to spend at least 10 times more money to use it and build 10 times more solar panels or wind turbines to just make noise with your car
So the reasoning for the e-fuel escape route is that we don't have the infrastructure yet. So we go e-fuel for which.... we don't have the infrastructure yet. Brilliant reasoning.
The thing is we could get the infrastructure to go e-fuel. We will never have the infrastructure to go full EV because the raw materials to replace every single ICE on the planet simply does not exist.
@@matth8205 No, not true. Who would be the distribution partners? This is Porsche's invention. Do you think, say, Shell would be interested in having someone take part of their market away? I think not.
@@matth8205 No, we don't. The UK, and Europe for that matter, does not have the power generation capacity to support full EV. We barely have enough for what we have right now and cannot deal with any shocks to the grid.
We don't have the infrastructure yet most stop where chargers are have normal cars parked in, chargers not working there's a lack of chargers plus if I live in a house but don't have my own drive how I charge my car get a 100m extension cable alot of people have to park on roads or away from there house 😂 and fast chargers are expensive like 26-30 quid to fill to full to get 250 miles I can spend 60 quid on diesel in 5 minutes and driver over 600 miles, ev cars are shite, plus add in the English weather winter you'll probably get 200 miles or less from a EV unless
just one of the reasons why my favorite car manufacturer is this company from Stuttgart, passion and engineering intertwined in art, hopefully we're gonna see GT3's that don't worry about emissions
Yep, they will just be for fun cars and driving a classic car around on a Sunday morning, few people will have the cash to run efuels in their daily driver, so in that sense it polices itself from polluting too much. I just hope I won't have to get a special tune to run it. One thing that might bring the price down is to use it to make E-85, now that's a tune and fuel system upgrade I won't mind getting for my trackday car!
It's because the demand is so low. Once the demand for it rises the prices should fall, and over time it should become around standard petrol and diesel prices.
@Daddy Romeo this is not inherently true, some things just have a low supply due to logistical reasons and will only see their prices increase with demand. However in this case you are probably correct to assume the supply can increase once a demand has been confirmed
Synthetic Fuel is the beacon of light on which the future of sports cars must be built on :') And it's not even just Porsche, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Suzuki, Daihatsu and Lamborghini are also researching e-fuels. EVs and Hybrids are totally fine for most aplications, but a sports car that doesn't sound amazing is not the same :(
Every automotive manufacturer is studying alternatives to EV's whether or not they'll admit it. EV's are not a solution to 90% of the worlds transporation needs. They're a gimmick sold to rich westerners who have a guilty conscience.
HI Matt! I hope all is well with you & your family! I think this is absolutely amazing news! I LOVE choice! I like ev's, but the thing that always bothered me, was that nobody would talk about long term maintenance, longevity, & cost! You may have heard about a man buying a used Testla, only to have to replace the battery which cost around the price of an inexpensive car! He blew the car up! Plus, the charging network is still in vast need of improvements! The time it takes to charge especially when you're on a road trip, is a turn-off! The cost of buying a new ev is not within reach of a lot of people for the most part! While I enjoy the sudden burst of acceleration that ev's do, the charm of hearing the ice cars going through the gears, still melts my heart! Also, I've been a long time fan of Toyota for developing the hydrogen technology for the Mirai platform! Plus, I wish they would stop killing the rainforest & plant more trees & bamboo which would absorb the carbon & give us oxygen! Stay safe Brother Matt! 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
the problem is much bigger that cars. in fact even the elec. car will not help enough. not using energy (extreme energy efficiancy in all aspects of our life) is the biggest way to solve this huge nature wide problem.
EV's destroy the ecosystem of where it's extracted from...making it unsustainable. Hybrids like the SF-90 and the Revuelto will be the way forward. Watching Seen Through Glass's video on it Porsche say that you can even mix Petrol and Synthetic Fuels to make it a Net Zero Emission output. Sounds like a win for Engines of all sizes!
What about the ecosystems that are destroyed by fossil fuel drilling? OIi spills kill ecosystems. EV has the potential to be a totally sustainable, grated currently it could be better but still better than ICE. Its takes 5 times the amount of electricity energy to make e-fuels vs in a EV. The video didn't tell the whole picture...
@@purwantiallan5089 No it's not but with the hybrids it will take the engine output to over 1000HP. A Hybrid system like the Revuelto's 180HP EV system could turn the Porsche from a 518HP to a 700HP car...that would be insane!
I was also concern about that too. Total dependency on EV alone is worrying and not a good idea. It is alway best to have options. By the way I always enjoy your channel.. And totally remember when you drove the EV Mercedes Benz until the battery died.. You and your crew...i enjoyed that video too. 👍🏼
@@SuperNovaHeights_ Wrong. I suggest you do some proper research. Synthetic fuels will be hugely expensive and will only ever be a niche product. The laws of nature, principally thermodynamics, are against it.
@@burnedhills No need for that. I have a good Nissan Leaf and a very nice Skoda Enyaq with over 350 miles range. Clearly you have no idea. Never learnt any basic science, have you?
Still puts CO2 into the atmosphere, which is what we don't want. Makes no difference if the CO2 has been taken out of the atmosphere first, we want to reduce it overall. I guarantee that the positives wouldn't outweigh the negatives
God bless E85 We been using E in our supercar series for ages now in Oz. I hope my Evo8 running on E85 is the start of things to come in the future. You need to use more than say 98ron as E is more dense. SO bigger injectors and a tune were also needed to run it nicely.
I too, see the logical change to move to E85 or grater. On the point you made, the average RON in E85 at the pump is actually between 105-110 octane. Meaning more efficiency by either cramming more boost into engines or driving up the static compression in Naturally Aspirated internal combustion engines. This is just higher cylinder pressure that can now be obtained safely, due to the higher octane count. So, the higher the cylinder pressures that can be obtained, the more efficient the engine can be. For every full point in compression raised, is the mathematical equivalent to ~4% increase in power from idle to peak RPM. Example: my 4.6 SOHC ford modular engine, runs at 9.6:1 static compression ratio from the factory. By increasing the bore 4mm per cylinder and adding after market cylinder heads of 38cc combustion chambers, with a flat top piston, it brings the compression up to 15:1. On gasoline, this combination is no viable with out race gas. But on E85 from a gas station pump, it’s safe to run. This should be an increase ~ 21.5% in power alone. The only thing that would limit this figure, is the added increase in airflow to match the higher due flow requirement. The trade off, is less throttle input is required to get the same values with gasoline. And with normal driving habits, should not see a huge decrease in MPG.
The really sad thing is the demise of the internal combustion engine is not about the fuel it uses. The transition to us all driving electric one day in the distant future is simply because electric motors can already do a better job of turning our wheels in the vast majority of road vehicles. And in time even the most advanced ICE will be no match against the best electric motors. So even if you have completely clean fuel to run your ICE you won't have it attached to the wheels.
That is exactly the case. At best eFuels will be an extremely niche thing for a few enthusiasts that can afford and are willing to buy old technology from Porsche to be used with extremely expensive fuel that is hardly available while the masses will be driving EV's and will be happy about it.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish Porsche the best of luck on their ambition to save the cars
The only problem with this idea is the new fuel costs twice as much as the old fuel😂
@@kellykubik4514 its currently around 6 euros a litre and normal fuel is about 1.4 euros a litre so its pretty expensive but as more use it they should enter economies of scale and prices will fall because the fuel market *with alternatives, is elastic therefore the lower the price the more people will proportionally consume. This is only the case if you can choose between fossil and synthetic because otherwise its a cartel and you have to consume one. Such as in the UK our fuel prices are incredibly high even when global oil prices are lower than they were before the ukraine war.
I wish Porsche the best of luck on their journey to bankruptcy, the bone heads!
How about instead of hope we just vote out all the controlled commie scum in government? Climate change is a scam. No one voted for any of the measures they're forcing on us
@@RussellFineArt just you wait buddy, Porsche does not go bankrupt that fast
Porsche are actually so iconic in the motoring industry and they just keep getting better and better. May God bless the work of their hands and minds
Which God? Thor?
@@Sidowse wdym? Makes sense to me. Maybe you need to read more.😉
Porsche are the best - fact
@@Dave-un7fh And theres the daily clown
@@Dave-un7fh God.
Had no idea the racing cars were already using this. Shows the fuel works and racing is important for car developments.
80% of cars in Brazil use it since 1993
@@carnage123 I dont think you understand what e-fuels are. e-fuels are not plant based ethanol.
@@carnage123 E-fuels are completely synthetic fuels made from water hydrogen and atmospheric CO2. That's why their carbon footprint is 0. Because they use the CO2 they produce (by compustion) to create new fuel, it's basically recyclation (you only need energy - a lot of it - to produce the fuel).
The WRC also use it too
F1 will be using it from 2026, when Ford and Audi enters. This still doesn't change anything about EVs. E-fuels will be way to expensive for a long time.
Synthetic fuel is a future not only for cars, for trucks, ships, planes too
On one hand i am sad that Porsche bottled their F1 entry and on the other i am over the moon that they are trying to save ICEs.
It's possible they pulled their entry to work towards being the fuel supplier for F1.
@@ANissanTitan what if Porsche becomes fuel supplier for Alfa Romeo?
@@ANissanTitan quite possible considering how much F1 is pushing towards synthetic fuel too.
Former Porsche CEO and current Volkswagen CEO Oliver Blume publicly announced, that "within the volkswagen corporation, E-Fuels will mainly be a topic for Porsche". Please note that Volkswagen owns Bugatti, Bentley and Lamborghini.
E-Fuels are not intended to "save the ICE". It's intended to postpone the death of the ICE 911 to make it even more legendary as the last ICE-Sportscar.
There not dumb they is a clear agenda behind all us this and it's control
Concerned about the cost of synthetic fuels. Although if there's more competition it should drive the price down. Hopefully we'll get it cheaper than current fuel prices one day.
In Europe, fuel prices are mostly taxes, so the price of e-fuel depends on greedy governments.
Engineering Explained says the current estimate is $40 a gallon 💀. Hopefully, it gets cheaper as the tech is optimised and demand increases.
The other problem is if they did go full electric the electricity will be absolutely ridiculous to make up the cost of losing fossil fuels. So if this works we can still keep combustion engines which is great. The price of things rising will happen either way it’s always a money scheme regardless
That won't happen. The process itself caps the cost.
The production efficiency is at around 2% at the moment and the physical limit is 6%. Meaning that it will be 50 times more expensive per kilometer than driving a regular ev.
Can't wait for the content on Matt's GT3rs
Nah. Carwow gonna change the thumbnail. Again.
The first drag race should be against the previous GT3 RS and the current GT3
Neat! Porsche always doing amazing things. Wonder when we’ll see this used in F1 to avoid going electric.
True, electric is no fun. Who want cars that can’t go as fast it can and with out sounds
We could even see a return to engines which make pleasant noises... v10s... v12s!
Actually from 2026 all f1 cars will use e-fuel...this decision was made a couple of years ago😁...and also don't worry, f1 won't become full electric...they already confirmed this...
Yeah, Porshe likes to pump out a lot of gas. Maybe not as much now as they used to in 1945
@@wanleaf All youre gonna hear from EVs is gonna be ”sssss” like we need some form of fuel!
Please PLEASE Porsche don’t ever give up on these projects!!
What about the price of e-fuel !?
@@jeanmarie97Atm the production costs are around 40$ a gallon. That can easily go down to 10$ a gallon if it's mass produced. But that's just the production costs without taxes and profit for the manufacturer
People should know two things;
1. Porsche did not invent e fuels, they are not new as a concept. It's chemistry that has been tried for a century.
2. They have more challenges that fossil fuel and EVs for the foreseeable future.
Sorry to be a downer bro! I had hope once 😂
e fuels are more or less useless in cars. Electric vehicels are way cheaper at the end of the day
@@jeanmarie97 Think 3 to 4 times the cost of unleaded petrol, and you'll be in the right ball park.
If making e-fuels takes so much energy to begin with, I expect it to be so expensive that most people won't be able to afford it.
They said the starting price will be 10€ per liter and expect to be 2€ by 2025 if I remember correctly
2 euros per liter by 2025 to 2028 now its 10 euros because the transportation expensisies
EV's use so much energy to produce them too!
@@ghunt9146 yeah but they are more efficient in life which more than makes up for it.
Its about scale, if you had ebery electricity plant in your country store in efuel instead of battery it would be cheaper. Do you think storing in lithium ion batteries is cheap? The trade off woiod be its not as efficient as storing in a battery, the benefit, the heat from batteries could boil the oceans in 400 years as they release constant heat that is already starting to impact the world. The benefit is also, tanks can never be electric, either can armoured cars, so you can produce fuel for your self defence.
We knew about synthetic fuel for decades. People were watching big brother instead. Hey Matt, thanks for talking about this. I've been watching your channels since car buyer 😂
Germans have been experts in synthetic fuels sinc3 2nd test germany v a world 11, 1939
@@sugarnads Yes, and the photoelectric cell goes back to 1912, I think. The road from invention to mass production can be a long one. That's the problem.
There’s a new season of Big Brother??
Industry gaslighting. Won't work at scale. Oil is energy produced for free by nature. There's a reason the never seen before growth of the 20th century that built our modern societies (while destroying our climate and ecosystems) came with Petrol. Guess what happens next, when you don't get anywhere near the same energy efficiency with renewables or synthetic fuels ? :|
@@sugarnads Yes and it always was a bad idea. Germany had no other choice during war. So instead of food there was fuel.
As it can be turned into a diesel fuel, I presume it will be possible to produce bunker oil as well. Which would be great news for the shipping industry. They wouldn't have to overhaul the whole fleet and replace every engine in there. As burning bunker oil produces a worse air quality then diesel or petrol it would be a great option for cruise ships and every other ship which docks within cities to start off with.
If Porsche manages to do that, they will earn the eternal respect from all of the car community, we’ll build churches for them
If the manage to do this I am getting a Porsche as my next car :D
I will be so unbelievably happy if Porsche manage to pull this off. We need to get behind them and push our local politicians to be more aware of this! Fuck the fossil fuels business! Politicians can affect business and they could help shape shell and bp into synthetic fuel plus electricity energy providers instead
Ok cult member
Not just respect, they will make history as well.
@@usercs_2682they already did with the 911
This reminds me of the time when all the automatic watch industry was about to go instinct when seiko introduced the quartz movement. But then audemar pique developd royak oak and the automatic watches were saved.
That's actually a good comparison
Dude 👍
Nah different situation but I see your point
Correct 💯
But they never remained the same. Nowadays most automatic watches are but a luxury for many. The same might be true for synthetic fuels as well.
There is just one important problem with the video: the e-fuel exception has not been added to the law yet. They intend to do that within the next few years, but there is no guarantee that it will definitely be added. As written today, the law only permits EV's and hydrogen for category B vehicles after 2035.
Category B cars like what?
@@purwantiallan5089 Motorcycles
Yeah, but oil companies are working on it as well and they have plenty of money to lobby governments with.
@@purwantiallan5089 cars and vans up to 3500kg
@@exoticsoflt Motorcycles are category A
So I imagine they'd be made in various octanes? My main concern would be the longevity of the engine itself
I imagine new engines can be produced that are better suited to the synthetic fuels.
Yes, it can even be made to replace Diesel.
They said the same thing when they phased out leaded petrol. And yet those same old cars are running today without any lead.
Efuel has the same chemical content as normal fuel, your engine wont feel a thing
I'm impressed that I found that this amazing experimental Porsche plant is in our country by watching Carwow.
This is not even mentioned in our news channels or papers.
Btw, it's a paradox that they are thinking in something to replace electric vehicles in a country that have just a couple hundreds in their roads and almost no charging stations.
thats so crazy !
It's been mentioned many times over a few years, but mainstream media, probably paid off by EV-linked money and influence, have kept as silent as possible about it.
I hope this actually comes to fruition. As an EV owner, it is blatantly clear that EVs aren't for everyone and an alternative needs to exist to be able to sustain mobility. I am not too convinced about liquid hydrogen cars as of yet and it would pose a similar conundrum to EVs with the infrastructure to support them. But e-fuels really do hold a lot of value as the transition to them is not as far fetched and maintains a lot of the current infrastructure intact for petrol vehicles. Good luck to all pushing this forward.
Apart from the actual gas stations non of the infrastructure beforehand can be used.
You need:
New power plants (solar, wind, storage),
Water supply or desalination plants,
water purifiers,
electrolysers, storage for hydrogen,
Carbon capture plants,
E-fuel plants
The larger projects right now (Chile) als need transport infrastructure.
@@theipc-twizzt2789 I was talking strictly about the distribution infrastructure which is the primary problem for EV owners and mass EV adoption. Production infrastructure development would come from most current fuel developers as they'll need to adapt or disappear. In terms of requiring carbon neutrality from the production infrastructure power source, if the countries are still not 100% non-fossil sourced, then it's a little hypocritical to request the same from the production facilities. It defeats the purpose when you charge an EV with a still primarily fossil driven power grid such as EU or US. That needs to be developed by each country's plan to shift but shouldn't be a dissuasive to change petrol for alternative fueling. As they say, every little helps and with time all pieces of the puzzle will line up.
@@adrian8426 There is no point in burning fossil fuels to create synthetic fuels. You do realize that this would increase CO2 emissions?
The advantage of battery based cars is precisely that: Even with an 100% fossil energy grid they have 10-20% lower lifetime CO2 emissions than burning fuel directly in an ICE car. This is due to combined cycle power plants beeing up to 60% efficient.
So no - the point you make should not be considered. The only thing that should be considered is CO2 emissions. If E fuels emit more CO2 than fossil fuels then they should not be allowed. It they emit less they are fine.
I fail to see how the power grid is a limiting factor in this. Even in the worst case assumption the grid would need to grow by less than 2% per year to accomodate a fully electric vehicle fleet by 2040. I invite you to do your own calculations, but this should be somewhat accurate.
Using home storage, virtual power plants and vehicle to grid should all alleviate this problem.
e-fuels do not solve the problem of localised pollution. They still 'burn stuff'...so people living along main routes in cities will get no relief from NoX, S02 and particulates. The root of the problem is internal combustion, whatever it is you're burning. There is a better technology which solves this problem, we have it already and it is growing fast.
This all assumes that the push for zero CO2 emission vehicles is about saving the planet from global warming. EVs warm the planet in their own way (increased CO2 emission at production than ICE vehicles and increased thermal load to atmospheric from power generation and distribution. As predicted by the The Club of Rome in 1970s the tipping point for the atmosphere was reached in the 1990s, nothing can save the planet now. EVs or (e)fuel ICE is just another wealth pumping exercise from the poor and middle income groups to the already wealthy.
One challenge you addressed was volume, but you didn't mention cost. eFuels need to be produced in huge volume and low cost, or they won't move the needle. Let's hope they can meet our needs.
Once countries start banning fossil fuels I’m sure other companies will start developing Efuel too
Volume and cost are highly correlated. The raw efuel will be more expensive for sure. Somewhere between 2-3 times. Cars with bigger cylinders can run cheaper fuel, downsized highly compressed turbocharged engines have far more requirements on the fuel.
😅 in Europe we have so much taxes on fuel that double the raw price would even effect the customer, if politics could waive their share. ^^ i mean they collected it in the name of climate in the first place.
In the US price will most likely increase around 50%.
But this technology is still emerging and needs embedding in several big existing industries. The amount of inaccuracy in these guesses is huge as it has so many variables that will change for sure.
I guess they won't and they will attract a premium in cost. Stick with a modern EV as by the time EV fuels are here you will have the 1000Km range cars and for most that once a month charge.
@@michaeldawson6309 I will believe that when I see a cell phone that I only charge once a month...
Incorrect statement Brian. The preservation of fuel production is intended to ensure all previous high value vehicles can continue to be used and sold without having to change ICE. The volumetrics required just simply can’t and won’t happen with the phase out of ICE vehicles. This isn’t for you, it’s for me and those that can afford the pricey cars everyone else looks at.
Selling this as a new idea or technology is criminal. It been on the shelf for the best part of 80 years.
Kudos to Porsche and Siemens for pioneering e-fuels for cars. But this is gonna cost something like €20 per L. The market will probably be limited to vintage car owners and certain race events. Still really good that vintage cars will have something to run on in the future.
"But this is gonna cost something like €20 per L."
The people at Porsche and Siemens estimate that e-fuels can be produced for about 1 € to 1 €. So in the long run, they price might be low enough to rival charging a BEV.
If you produce e-fuels in Saudi-Arabia where they think that 1 kWh will cost you 1 Cent, the price will go down even further.
It must be "1 € to 1,20 €", of course. Sorry.
I'm currently in holiday in Greece I thought petrol was expensive in the UK but its already €20 a litre in Greece
The price will ultimately depend entirely on the scale of production. If we see production plants all over the world pumping e-fuel out at the rate we have been producing petrol until now there's no reason the prices wouldn't come down to a manageable level. The initial investment would be high of course and initial prices would have to offset that. But once you got the infrastructure set up and you're making fuel out of air and solar power, it just might be super cheap.
Remember, E-fuels are currently in the testing stage. Everything has to start somewhere, but this has some great potential in the near future.
Just started watching this on April fools day, so taking this with a pinch of salt, but see the video was published the day before AND I know Porsche is working in new fuels.
Good news for car guys 😊
Donut media done a video on this a couple weeks ago, they said it costs 40$ a litre. So with the way the industry works, it will only be for elites
Yes. But sadly bad news indeed since Carwow gonna change the thumbnail again.
This E-Fuel its just a Concept , practically on a very small scale because its Mega Expensive and Time Consuming to Produce
@@CaptainKedah so were electric cars, and still are to an extent. as time goes on technology improves and so does the system and infrastructure necessary
bad news for your pockets though
"The carbon has been Partially offset"
Carwow's ability to waffle to meet the 8 minute mark!
It’s 5 now actually, dunno why he’s doing it.
It's worth to mention that cars on E-fuels may be carbon neutral but they won't be zero emmision vehicles because in combustion process in earth atmosphere harmful NOx particles will still be formed. Don't see it getting cheaper than EV's either but the technology itself is really interesting. In the end majority of people will choose a cheaper option so we will see how it will turn out.
Unless the whole supply chain uses e-fuels it will never but carbon neutral. I'd love for them to work and to be cost effective but I can't see why when the amount of energy in efuel that a car will use an EV with the initial amount of power to make that Efuel could go 4-5 times as far as efuel are seriously inefficient
Don't worry about emissions, there are plenty of IC invention patents that have not been used for too many decades. We will see an avalanche of "new" technologies not related to the fuel itself but how it gets managed to the engine.
My money's on Betamax!
And there I was looking forward to cleaner air from 2030...
There is no such thing as climate change, just corruption. Also the Co2 emissions are very positive for the planet.
This was a great video even before the balcony I’m sitting on watching it featured 😃 Keep up the sterling work, Matt!
Someone needs to pass this memo to AMG.
They need to bring back the v8 and stop calling that 4 cylinder a C63.
Thats cool. I hope they work on this tech together to save combustion engines with their sounds and save the planet at the same time, hopefully.
E-fuels are about 5x the energy usage as an EV (without manufacturing the car, transporting the fuel etc)
This won´t happen unfortunately. E-fuels just burn energy on mass, they are really really REALLY bad efficiency wise. It´s probably by far the worst solution. There is no way we could ever produce enough energy in a sustainable way to create nearly enough e-fuel for it to be somewhat affordable. It would be about 2-5x price increase.
It´s basically a marketing gag at this point. E-fuels make sense for airplanes because they have to be light and have other limitations but for cars ? Never.
Also I am saying that as a mechanical engineer and I do prefer combustion engines, it´s just not happening.
@/O/ seaweed ? Can you propose a process where this is possible ? How much energy does is need and how well can it be burned in a combustion engine ?
@/O/ If it´s generated out of biomass why not use sewage instead ? Otherwise you would have to harvest that stuff in the ocean instead which is not really practical and costly, you have to transport it and so on this also probably wastes more energy than generated back by the seaweed. But okay I see it´s just an idea of yours. Also don´t forget this biomass is probably needed by the ocean for something. It is an eco system after all, a closed loop.
Something similar is already done with cow poo. But I mean how many of those "station" would you need to be able to generate the energy all modern cars need ? The problem is that oil is pretty damn good. It´s cheap, abundant, easily transported, has a very high energy density. You simply can´t beat this.
The process to create any sort of E-fuels is always longer than simply using batteries.
The pures form of energy would be electricity. To create E-fuels you need.
Electricity --> hydrogen / methane. So instead of using electricity you use it to produce something else and so on, the efficiency simply isn´t there.
I mean you can do that but why ? You can instead simply produce more batteries or use those resources otherwise.
That's why I respect Porsche- not only for their racing pedigree or making superlative cars, but their R&D across the spectrum.
I’ve been an electric car owner for almost 10 years. It has been the best car ownership experience I’ve ever had thanks to charging. Matt, you told us all of the down sides of electric cars. But none of the downsides to keeping an internal combustion engine. Like still needing oil changes, or transmission fluid on occasion. Or the hundreds of moving parts in an ICE that means more mechanical maintenance over time. Not complaining but there was no fair balance.
ICE manufacturers clutching at straws to save their precious engines
@@jontyrocks3 saving themselves from having to spend on making changes. Mr. Toyoda doesn’t want to put all his eggs in one basket, I think that was hilarious to point out. We’ve had our eggs in one basket for over a century with internal combustion, so why the comment. Just an excuse to slow things down.
Agreed!
synthetic fuels is a really good concept , to put it simply you can either charge 3 batteries for one run (synthetic fuel) or charge a single battery for one run! its efficient to use batteries , but i really hope this tech develops!
The only problem is the cost. I heard that a gallon of e-fuel cost twice the current price of a gallon of petrol. They need to lower the cost somehow or else, common people won't be able to afford it. I hope this seriously work out tho. I love ICE cars a lot and i hope they don't die out. And EVs and e-fuel cars can perfectly coexist together. EVs for daily usage and e-fuel cars for long trips which means we get the best of both worlds.
I also hope that too🤞🏻
Simple economics of scale for the pricing and throw a bit of competition in for mix once it starts going.
I think it'll come down as demand increases
@@asitadkar4976 as supply increases. Not demand
It's not twice the price, it's multiples. eFuels need at least 5x the energy to move an ICE the same distance an EV would move, so it will always be WAY more expensive than EV's, it's just physics. There's no way around it.
We all need to buy Porsches!
If you can buy a Porsches you can buy a plane too.
Good luck with the 18 month waiting lists!!
@@TheXextreem Well... no. I got two Porsche, but I am pretty Sure I can't buy a plane. Although, maybe a used Cessna is possible. Might look it up some day. Need a license first, however
@@DrakorGaet It's a joke, Einstein.
@@TheXextreem well then we all thank you for once again proving how boundlessly unfunny some people are capable of being
Two things:
1. You still need a massive abundance of renewable energy to make eFuels carbon neutral. In fact even more energy is needed than if you just used the renewable energy to charge electric cars. The eFuel manufacturing process is much less efficient than the transmission of electricity and charging an EV.
2. Even carbon neutral eFuels don't give cities any air quality benefit in the way that EVs do.
I would much rather resources be focused on building out EV (or hydrogen) infrastructure than eFuels
There is unfortunately one big problem as of right now with E-Fuels: Efficiency! They're about 4 to 5x less efficient than electric batteries, which means that the energy required to keep an ICE car with E-Fuel running is much higher than that of an electric car. Therefor much more power plants are required. However, this does not mean that's its not possible. Fusion reactors are on their way and we're still not even close to fully utilizing the sun as our primary energy source. On top of that, who says that electric cars and ICE cars can't exist together? Not every car needs to run E-Fuels and not every car needs to be electric. In an ideal world we would have E-Fuels, Electric and Hydrogen and even some regular Diesel/Petrol cars.
Yeah the video left out a few VERY important points. I think in my perfect world the would all co-exist together. You have Efuels for old ICE cars or ICE sports cars, BEV for your general individual transport and maybe hydrogen for trucks and ships. We'll see how that goes...
We have fission reactors right now but no one uses those
@@ventilate4267 OMG - nobody is using the nuclear reactors producing, as I write, 4.3GW or 13% of the UK's electricity ?
That’s true but to be honest- Diesel needed a few years to be perfect as well and I think with some research we can achieve similar stats
Hydrogen sucks for efficiency too. Even green hydrogen (i.e. produced by splitting water into hydrogen & oxygen) takes 3-4x as much energy to produce, ship, store and turn back to electricity as just charging a battery. And hydrogen usually isn't green, but instead produced during petrochemical processing. It was boosted by the oil industry and laggards like Toyota to sow some FUD around EVs and green tech. About the only viable future for hydrogen is when you have a surplus of energy which would otherwise go to waste if it wasn't captured somehow. Even then, there are probably better ways of doing it.
One big problem you sadly did not mention: Currently the production of e-fuels uses so much energy, that if you charge the ev directly instead of creating efuel with the energy you drive about 4 times as far with it. so if this cannot be driven up to at least a 1:1 or better it is economicaly always a lot more feasable to charge an EV with the power instead of creating efuel. Hopefully they will find a way to get this ratio better...
No it isn’t. Since you can’t transport or store electricity. With efuel you can. You can create it in the dessert and use it on cold climates.
@@N911GT2 You could create it in the baked Alaska, and use it in Alaska then.
@@N911GT2 "you can't transport or store electricity" - I don't think you really mean what you wrote - do you want to clarify this statement?
@@N911GT2 "you can't store electricity"... wow! This is new for everyone!
@@N911GT2 what a load. You can indeed store and transport electricity just fine.
Great Video as always Matt.
You cant say the BZ4X is Toyotas first ev car. They launched the Rav4 fully Ev back in 1997.
It's crazy that people still don't know that the first electric car was actually in the 1800s
@@lilllwizzzle I'm pretty sure people know that by now but this was about toyotas first EV, not EVs in general.
@@kooooons Most people still don't know that
@@Rezcuz There was a village full of people who thought they knew everything. They would argue and debate about all kinds of topics, but no one could ever agree on anything.
One day, a wise old man came to the village and said, "You know, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know."
The villagers were outraged. "What do you mean you don't know everything? We know everything!" they exclaimed.
So the wise old man decided to test their knowledge. He asked them a series of simple questions, like "What's the capital of France?" and "Who wrote 'Romeo and Juliet'?"
But much to his surprise, no one in the village could answer any of the questions correctly.
The wise old man chuckled and said, "Looks like you don't know everything after all."
The villagers were humbled and realized that there was still so much for them to learn. From that day on, they made an effort to seek knowledge and never assumed they knew everything again.
He said it is Toyota’s first bespoke electric car which it still is as the electric RAV4 was based on the ICE RAV4 platform
Obviously, it's a rich company that "magically" finds an alternative fuel source.....
Finally someone with a higher range Talking about it, love the content
Akio Toyoda should be applauded.
They’re just saying (politically correctly) that EVs are NOT the *only* solution… 👏 👏
Simple common sense that’s clearly lacking in the EU.
They are not offering an alternative. They have been working on hydrogen for decades and are still not there yet.
Ever heard of NOx pollution? or nano-particules?
EVs shouldn't legally be the only Option, but from an economic and scientific perspective, they are
3:55 The EU is making an exception for e-fuel.
Simple common sense like watching the video before commenting is clearly lacking in some. 👏 👏
@@Gryf_ If you have watched the video then you do not understand the issues. Neither hydrogen nor "e-fuels" are the answer to the world's problems. The EU exception for e-fuels is made on political grounds, not scientific or economic grounds,
Great video Matt, more of these industry insight are welcome. 🎉
Filling up the tank of my car with e-fuel will double the worth of my car.
synthetic fuel has been around for years. I'm surprised they didn't bring this to light sooner.
Same thought here, my guess is that big oil only just started losing their stranglehold over the industry and can no longer hinder research
Yeah well "they" probably don't want it to be common. "They" don't care about carbon emissions. It's about limiting mobility of the general population.
Probably something to do with the fact it’s bollocks
@@fradaja That's the right answer.
Science journals have written about e-fuels before. it's always spoken of as mostly a pipe dream with little chance of actual success compared to other emerging technologies.
e-fuel is what happens when the status quo gets toppled. e-fuel is like e-horses. Once the car came around, horses weren't that useful.
Once electric motors came around, making a huge drivetrain and a massive engine just so we can listen to the vroom vrooms made less and less sense by the year... A battery, speed regulator and two small electric motors is just a better way to make a car.. No gearbox, no axels, no engine.. We're going from a thousand moving parts to like two RC motors and the steering column and its assembly..
The main concern is how to store energy, and how to make magnets without causing havoc to the planet.
Because big cooperations would loose billions. Simple
legal or illegal we love it
It is legal for me
the irony in this is that it uses carbon dioxide to produce synthetic fuels, which is exactly the material they dont want in the atmosphere
@@DonDon45-i5h its the same with electricity, clean energy is far from being everywhere
Who the fuck is "we"?
@@DonDon45-i5h yes they take co2 out of the air to make it
I would also recommend watching Engineering Explained's video about eFuels and its efficiency compared current options
I hope this technology takes off, as I want to keep driving interesting cars for years to come.
But on the slow EV gone charging: I have driven an EV for two years now, and have only used public chargers for very long distance drives (over 400 km). When I charge at home, it doesn't matter that it's slow. I'm not sitting around waiting for it. I'm doing other stuff, like sleeping...
It's a nice idea but I think e-fuel will likely be the fuel of professional racing and the ultra wealthy. Current pricing on e-fuel is roughly $40 USD per gallon. More than likely EVs will be the dominant option for most drivers and enthusiast cars will have a much higher price tag with disgustingly high fuel cost.
You like most people are clueless about the paucity of raw materials for batteries etc. the world's known reserves of lithium are insufficient to supply batteries for the forcast uptake of EVs and certainly replacement batteries.
@@RC-fm6bj That's nonsense. Lithium is one of the most common materials on earth and is contained in salt. So we're more likely to run out of oil.
@@RC-fm6bj Actually there IS enough lithium in the world to replace all cars. The current production just needs to scale up accordingly. If we are able to spend billions of dollars to extract billions of barrels of oil, we should be more than able to extract the same amounts of lithium.
@@texanplayer7651 nothing like exploiting even more poor regions for their resources :)
@@roccociccone597 yes Australia is a very poor region
You forgot the main issue with synthetic fuel, it's the price ! I read that if made in large scale synthetic fuel could go down as low as 2€/liter to make. You have to compare that with fossil fuel that cost about 0,13€ per liter to extract and refine. IN THE BEST CASE SCENARIO, SYNTHETIC FUEL WOULD BE 15x MORE EXPENSIVE than fossil fuel ! It's fine for supercars on a track but it is not a solution for everyone in the near future.
thats maybe but gov would not tax a clean fuel so at the moment large percentage of fuel is a gov tax. they still find a way to shaft us tho lol
now your getting it! the elites will still be able to use it but we wont
Work out what these fuels will cost. They will be good for occasional drives in a classic, and maybe for formula 1, but they will be far too expensive to use for transport.
Why hasn't anyone been doing videos on porsche's syn fuel. It's been in research for ages. This is the hope the community needed and the community just ignored it for years.
Because it's a pipe dream. Way too expensive and inefficient. It's just a last ditch effort from Porsche to somehow keep a small number of ICE alive for rich enthusiasts. It's very obvious for everyone in Europe that this was something enabled by a hand full of German politicians who were lobbied heavily by Porsche. ICE's will die for the vast majority of car customers for good. BEV's are just the objectively better option for at least 95% of car customers, so they will choose a BEV over an ICE. Not because politicians are forcing them to but because they want to.
@@mostbeautifulroads9789 Bro what are you even saying, this tech is still in it's early days of development, it will get cheaper over time. And it's not just porsche doing this, you've got toyota and other automotive manufacturers working on it too. It seems like you're some kind of EV fanboy that just can't accept the fact that they may not be the future after all. And BEV's are definitely not the objectively better option for at least 95% of car customers, where do you even get these numbers, EV's are way too expensive and unpractical for the average customer.
@@stanisawkwasniewski2087 as you said before it will get cheaper over time evs wont be this expensive forever you have pretty much every brand working on it. Also we don't even know if the Porsche fuel will work.
@@stanisawkwasniewski2087 "Bro" I'm anything but an EV fanboy I'm still driving powerful ICE cars and enjoy them but I'm also less connected emotionally to the concept of ICE than seemingly a lot of people here are, enabling me to accept that eFuels will never beat BEVs in efficiency, in fact they won't even come close. Completely ignoring the fact that the production of eFuels is already insanely wasteful even IF it could be produced with zero losses compared to electric energy (and that is a HUGE if!) internal combustion engines are sitting at 40% efficiency in the very very very best cases (ignoring 2-stroke diesels from big ship engines) while BEVs are already doing twice that. Furthermore most manufacturers are completely canceling or MASSIVELY scaling back their ICE programm (E.g. Mercedes reducing their ICE investments by 80% until 2026) meaning ICE will fall back even further, also meaning less demand for eFuels, meaning higher costs due to economies of scale. And in terms of BEVs being too expensive another user already mentioned that they are getting cheaper by the day, while you seem to give the benefit of the doubt to eFuels becoming MASSIVELY cheaper (we are talking orders of magnitude here) in there near future despite most likely having very little demand (since there's hardly any manufacturers going down that route, for a reason.) you don't seem to give this benefit of the doubt to BEVs as well. In terms of them being "impractical": BEVs ALREADY easily cover the distance needed for most consumers on a single charge, all this while not even having to see a gas station anymore due go being able to charge at home, and the charging stations at home will only become more and more common. EV ranges are increasing by the day as well. EVs are more comfortable, need way less maintenance and are simpler and cheaper to maintain, don't need to be warmed up, will have you go through less brakepads/discs, etc.
Sorry "bro" I hate to break it to you but BEVs will become more and more established and for good reasons. It seems you're emotionally invested in ICE technology so Porsche will maybe cater to your needs but don't expect it to be cheap in any way since you'll be paying the massive costs of ICE development split up between very little quantities and will have to use a fuel that will be hardly available and very expensive, no matter how much you wish for it to be otherwise, sorry. It's simple physics unfortunately.
@@stanisawkwasniewski2087 if I may interject here. There are major problems with both EVs and ICEVs. To ignore either side is being a fan boy. Personally, I'd like a vehicle that can be refuelled anywhere, has minimal maintenance, is safe, and built in such a way that it has negligible effects on the environment. Let's face it neither side of the equation has it all, or even a majority. A good hybrid system, in my opinion, is the best option for now, but the sustainer must be very efficient, cheap, and light weight, as well as being simple with low maintenance cost. On the battery side of the equation, having a smaller battery pack, can save on weight and improve charge times as well as lessen the amount of resources needed to mine and refine the materials needed to create it. The more range a battery pack gives you, the less environmentally friendly it becomes. I'd say a range of 50miles(freedom units) is sufficient to travel on the battery alone. This will get you to and from work, and to a service station if your ICE sustainer is inoperable. The future is also very uncertain, and we have no idea what new technology, or government intervention is going to come down the pipe, and cause our extinction.
Germany was fighting to extend the deadline for ICE powered vehicles. Synthetic fuels are still going to create pollution. JCB has been developing hydrogen ICE (H-ICE) engines for their plant machinery. Harry's Garage was recently visiting JCB. They originally started with modifying existing engines, but due to the technical challenges, they've had to design an all-new engine for H-ICE. Significantly quieter than diesel, with H2O being the only emission out the exhaust. The challenge is capturing hydrogen cleanly and for the cost to be similar to current fuels.
eu gonna have to there aint enough rare earth minerals in current mines and greens dont allow them in europe
if you can use hydrogen to generate electricity why would you burn it and lose half of the energy😂
Hyrogen cars are nothing new. BMW experimented with them a lot over 20 years ago. But this system does not work. The fact that it requires so much energy to produce hydrogen alone makes this technology not feasible
hydrogen ICE was also used in the 7 series over 20 years ago. There were many problems you could find on the web. I don't think it will be reborn.
No but generation of hydrogen cells requires pollution. It doesn’t offset carbon emission like synthetic fuel.
Great idea, get it going Porsche hope this becomes a thing!!
It already is, just not on this side of the planet
It is super expensive compared to charging an EV
@Leo Mühring I'd rather pay the expense and keep the internal combustion engine alive then charge am E.V! E.V are great and all that, but combustion engines make you feel alive and connected to the vehicle! 💯
Europe had a roadmap for net zero fuel since 2012. We mixed net zero components in the refinery process. It should be increased from 5% to 100% over several 4 year steps. Didn't happen as we couldn't scale these process to the required fuel consumption.
But it's great that politics decided to keep diversity in technology alive rather then decemating it down to battery powered vehicles.
Ship's planes and trains can be loaded so heavy that electricity can't provide enough power over distance. And it helps reducing emissions of existing cars a lot.
But for now you can drive ~5 times as far in an EV from the power used to make e-fuels. But both technologies will keep evolving after the new regulations. So it stays interessting.
If this does come to reality and if global or mostly, I would like to see Dodge continue production of the Challenger and Chevy making Camaros again
It baffles me that this is supposedly news. F1 is currently in the process of using higher % of synth fuel and manufacturers like VW, Ford, Honda, Renault, Mercedes and some more have shown huge interest in the technology.
I love how you paint it.
You describe: "Basically one minister making a U-turn, ignoring every political decision making so far to get his will (who is known to be very liberal towards companies) to let the upper class can profit from fuel that needs to be highly subsidized" as "A company saved the whole petrol engine with tech, that convinced all decision makers that this is a bad idea".
Word! This should not be viewed as journalism it is just plane advertising Porsche and its anti EV stance.
There’s a lot to be anti about EV. A lot.
@@rb.x Well wasting 90% of the energy put into moving it certainly isn't one of them ...
@@rb.x it is the best option we have right now, b/c it is the most efficient. E-Fuel and Hydrogen will not work b/c they are not efficient enough to be used by the Steel and chemisrty industries and be used as a fuel source for Cars of the General public.
@@Chucknorich This sounds eerily similar to the talk they had about EVs before the technology caught up 🤔
Never been a fan of Porsche's but this makes me want to buy one out of pure respect
How could some one love cars but not a fan of Porshe 😭
Just some of the best cars in the world....😂
Please stay away then King of Ashes.
Looking forward to seeing how these fuels develop. I'd be keen to get my FD running in the stuff and keep it alive as it was always meant to be!
Where do you live? It’s my favourite car ever and still haven’t managed to get my hands on one due to life commitments and so on. I live in west part of London close to M25. I would pay you to take me for a ride in it !
My FD will never disappear
@@japanluv Life commitments do slow up these things unfortunately, as does everything costing so much! Don't drive mine as much as i'd like, but hoping to get some good drives in it this year after i've fixed a couple things.
I'm based in the Portsmouth area. If we're ever in the same area, i'd be happy to take you for a spin, no charge
What about the costs per litre? And the fact that it's made in Brazil and shipped half way across the world.
From the costs I've seen best case is 20quid a litre.
This is purely to help some car companies survive? It won't be affordable for most people
#Save the engines
Yes. Save the turbo engine.
Especially the steam engines. Stanley steamer all day everyday!
e-fuels will never work. It will take far too long for e-fuel production to meet the demand for the amount of ICE vehicles on the road.
@@beanapprentice1687 True. People need to research the numbers involved. To provide a hypothetical world with 100% EVs in the would take a pessimistic 15 PWh in renewables. 26PWh less than is currently used in oil for ICEs. To provide e-Fuels for current ICEs would take 77PWh in renewables 36PWh more than currently. The total primary energy consumption of the world is ~170 PWh. The world is struggling to implement enough renewables to meet the EVs target until 2050. Assuming to meet the E-Fuel target in 2035 is insane.
It takes 4x as much energy to make an e-fuel as it does to put the same amount of energy in a BEV.
It takes 100,000 km of driving an ev to break even on the carbon emissions used to make it.
@@guenthermichaels5303 how many km of driving an IC car does it take to break even the carbon emissions?
@@AbnormalAspirations they don't but they part way at 100k mark. So upto that point, they are even.
@@guenthermichaels5303 Do you have a source other than anti EV propaganda for this statement? E-Fuels will be needed but they don’t make economic sense for passenger cars. Guess what the politicians “fighting“ for e-fools did 2nd? Right, asking for subsidies.
@@guenthermichaels5303 As recycling and battery tech improves, it will massively decrease. Efuels development will always be slower than battery.
I agree with the charging problems but we have to remember there is a significant energy los when using the internal combustion engine.
Only problem with this is the EU have said only new ICE vehicles from 2035 will be allowed to run on e fuels and according to Grant Shapps the UK will not be following the EU on this "because we now longer have to"... another Brexit benefit!
I just hope that these fuels can achieve economies of scale, quickly
I have known this for a long time it’s why I have not jumped on the electric car bandwagon. Hopefully by the rule change I can still buy an ICE car. 🤞🏻
Mat thank you so much for this insane video!
It is insane but not for the reasons you think. Synthetic fuels require at least four times as much energy to drive an ICE car a particular distance as an EV. They will never be economic.
Thought there was a Clean Water SHORTAGE!
0:03 Hello Vsauce, Michael here
The synthetic fuel has been developed but it is in short supply and approx. $40.00 litre.
Just like every new technology ever developed. It's expensive and scarce. However both will change in the next decade
@@ahihatv468 This is far from being true. This is because the process of creating e fuels is extremly inefficient due to conversion losses. So what you do is istead of charging a Battery, you take already produced electricity from renewable energies to create hydrogen out of warter (~30% losses) then you need to extract CO2 from the atmosphere (also extrem inefficient) then you create your e fuel in a reactor (more losses) and transport the fuel to your gas station. At the end you get about 17% efficiency from well to wheel instead of ~85% using a electric car.
@@LionAndi inefficiency isn’t the main problem to the consumer here. Since the resources used for efuel production is pretty much infinite. The main problem will be higher price itself. But this much progress in such a short time is made by only one company and now TOYOTA and STELLANTIS (two of the biggest automotive companies) have also decided to support Porsche and e-fuels. The problem of high gas prices is likely to go down as mass production takes place and cost of transportation is significantly reduced. In fact, by 2025 the price for it is expected to drastically go down.
It would have been interesting to also add a few talking points about F1’s synthetic fuel into the video as well.
Yes, I was thinking about that
I’ve noticed the tendency for some to over simplify hydrogen as; It’s water man! It’s actually hydrogen and divorcing the hydrogen molecule takes a great deal of energy and cost.
Amazing what can be accomplished when threatened! Add this to the list of reasons I love Porsche
Did you know that Porsche was the first to really implement the idea of Hybrid function to fruition? They were tasked among other people during the war to come up with Tank ideas. At the time, the technology wasn’t there to fully support the idea reliably. But Porsche made a tank that had a gas engine to power the electric motors, that moved the tank tracks
E-fuel will take 10 times more energy than batteries to move a car, it means that you have to spend at least 10 times more money to use it and build 10 times more solar panels or wind turbines to just make noise with your car
Its worth every penny
I loved porsche before but now, it’s on a totally different level
Any combustion using air (80% Nitrogen) under pressure produces NOx a pollutant. Gotta fix that too Push.
So the reasoning for the e-fuel escape route is that we don't have the infrastructure yet. So we go e-fuel for which.... we don't have the infrastructure yet. Brilliant reasoning.
The thing is we could get the infrastructure to go e-fuel. We will never have the infrastructure to go full EV because the raw materials to replace every single ICE on the planet simply does not exist.
We do have the infrastructure what were missing is production capacity
@@matth8205 No, not true. Who would be the distribution partners? This is Porsche's invention. Do you think, say, Shell would be interested in having someone take part of their market away? I think not.
@@matth8205 No, we don't. The UK, and Europe for that matter, does not have the power generation capacity to support full EV. We barely have enough for what we have right now and cannot deal with any shocks to the grid.
We don't have the infrastructure yet most stop where chargers are have normal cars parked in, chargers not working there's a lack of chargers plus if I live in a house but don't have my own drive how I charge my car get a 100m extension cable alot of people have to park on roads or away from there house 😂 and fast chargers are expensive like 26-30 quid to fill to full to get 250 miles I can spend 60 quid on diesel in 5 minutes and driver over 600 miles, ev cars are shite, plus add in the English weather winter you'll probably get 200 miles or less from a EV unless
Keep going Porsche. You fight for us
Love Porsche...I hope they flourish over the years
just one of the reasons why my favorite car manufacturer is this company from Stuttgart, passion and engineering intertwined in art, hopefully we're gonna see GT3's that don't worry about emissions
even if e-fuels come into play they are very expensive somewhere around $40/gallon.
Yep, they will just be for fun cars and driving a classic car around on a Sunday morning, few people will have the cash to run efuels in their daily driver, so in that sense it polices itself from polluting too much. I just hope I won't have to get a special tune to run it. One thing that might bring the price down is to use it to make E-85, now that's a tune and fuel system upgrade I won't mind getting for my trackday car!
It's because the demand is so low. Once the demand for it rises the prices should fall, and over time it should become around standard petrol and diesel prices.
@Daddy Romeo high demand doesn't lower price it raises it. Supply is what can lower price
@@CHAOS80120 higher demand will prompt higher supply, so in extension the price will become lower.
@Daddy Romeo this is not inherently true, some things just have a low supply due to logistical reasons and will only see their prices increase with demand. However in this case you are probably correct to assume the supply can increase once a demand has been confirmed
Synthetic Fuel is the beacon of light on which the future of sports cars must be built on :')
And it's not even just Porsche, Toyota, Subaru, Mazda, Suzuki, Daihatsu and Lamborghini are also researching e-fuels. EVs and Hybrids are totally fine for most aplications, but a sports car that doesn't sound amazing is not the same :(
Every automotive manufacturer is studying alternatives to EV's whether or not they'll admit it. EV's are not a solution to 90% of the worlds transporation needs. They're a gimmick sold to rich westerners who have a guilty conscience.
I couldn’t agree more. EV for normal use, Hydrogen ice and E fuels for enthusiasts.
Wish the best for porsche in developing this e-fuel🔥✨️
Last I checked, carbon capture tech isn't fully materialized. So the advantage of efuel being carbon neutral is still up in the air.
Great news hopefully we will be able to use E fuels soon than later
Yes at an increased cost I am sure.
HI Matt! I hope all is well with you & your family! I think this is absolutely amazing news! I LOVE choice! I like ev's, but the thing that always bothered me, was that nobody would talk about long term maintenance, longevity, & cost! You may have heard about a man buying a used Testla, only to have to replace the battery which cost around the price of an inexpensive car! He blew the car up! Plus, the charging network is still in vast need of improvements! The time it takes to charge especially when you're on a road trip, is a turn-off! The cost of buying a new ev is not within reach of a lot of people for the most part! While I enjoy the sudden burst of acceleration that ev's do, the charm of hearing the ice cars going through the gears, still melts my heart! Also, I've been a long time fan of Toyota for developing the hydrogen technology for the Mirai platform! Plus, I wish they would stop killing the rainforest & plant more trees & bamboo which would absorb the carbon & give us oxygen! Stay safe Brother Matt! 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Imagine that some people still believe that electric cars are eco friendly 🤣🤣🤣
the problem is much bigger that cars. in fact even the elec. car will not help enough. not using energy (extreme energy efficiancy in all aspects of our life) is the biggest way to solve this huge nature wide problem.
EV's destroy the ecosystem of where it's extracted from...making it unsustainable.
Hybrids like the SF-90 and the Revuelto will be the way forward.
Watching Seen Through Glass's video on it Porsche say that you can even mix Petrol and Synthetic Fuels to make it a Net Zero Emission output. Sounds like a win for Engines of all sizes!
Is Porsche 911 GT3RS a hybrid one?
What about the ecosystems that are destroyed by fossil fuel drilling? OIi spills kill ecosystems. EV has the potential to be a totally sustainable, grated currently it could be better but still better than ICE. Its takes 5 times the amount of electricity energy to make e-fuels vs in a EV. The video didn't tell the whole picture...
@@purwantiallan5089 No it's not but with the hybrids it will take the engine output to over 1000HP. A Hybrid system like the Revuelto's 180HP EV system could turn the Porsche from a 518HP to a 700HP car...that would be insane!
Rubbish
I was also concern about that too. Total dependency on EV alone is worrying and not a good idea. It is alway best to have options. By the way I always enjoy your channel.. And totally remember when you drove the EV Mercedes Benz until the battery died.. You and your crew...i enjoyed that video too. 👍🏼
" Total dependency on EV alone is worrying and not a good idea" care to explain this stupid thought?
Good luck Porsche, I hope you'll save us all
Not a chance.
@@rogerphelps9939 they will
@@SuperNovaHeights_ Wrong. I suggest you do some proper research. Synthetic fuels will be hugely expensive and will only ever be a niche product. The laws of nature, principally thermodynamics, are against it.
@@rogerphelps9939 You're the one that deserves to drive a Renault Zoe for the rest of his days
@@burnedhills No need for that. I have a good Nissan Leaf and a very nice Skoda Enyaq with over 350 miles range. Clearly you have no idea. Never learnt any basic science, have you?
Still puts CO2 into the atmosphere, which is what we don't want. Makes no difference if the CO2 has been taken out of the atmosphere first, we want to reduce it overall. I guarantee that the positives wouldn't outweigh the negatives
God bless E85
We been using E in our supercar series for ages now in Oz.
I hope my Evo8 running on E85 is the start of things to come in the future.
You need to use more than say 98ron as E is more dense. SO bigger injectors and a tune were also needed to run it nicely.
I too, see the logical change to move to E85 or grater. On the point you made, the average RON in E85 at the pump is actually between 105-110 octane. Meaning more efficiency by either cramming more boost into engines or driving up the static compression in Naturally Aspirated internal combustion engines. This is just higher cylinder pressure that can now be obtained safely, due to the higher octane count. So, the higher the cylinder pressures that can be obtained, the more efficient the engine can be. For every full point in compression raised, is the mathematical equivalent to ~4% increase in power from idle to peak RPM.
Example: my 4.6 SOHC ford modular engine, runs at 9.6:1 static compression ratio from the factory. By increasing the bore 4mm per cylinder and adding after market cylinder heads of 38cc combustion chambers, with a flat top piston, it brings the compression up to 15:1.
On gasoline, this combination is no viable with out race gas. But on E85 from a gas station pump, it’s safe to run. This should be an increase ~ 21.5% in power alone. The only thing that would limit this figure, is the added increase in airflow to match the higher due flow requirement. The trade off, is less throttle input is required to get the same values with gasoline. And with normal driving habits, should not see a huge decrease in MPG.
1:21 - I just realized that this new Prius just straight up copied the Ferrari SF90's headlights
At a huge $$$ saving. 😂
The really sad thing is the demise of the internal combustion engine is not about the fuel it uses. The transition to us all driving electric one day in the distant future is simply because electric motors can already do a better job of turning our wheels in the vast majority of road vehicles. And in time even the most advanced ICE will be no match against the best electric motors. So even if you have completely clean fuel to run your ICE you won't have it attached to the wheels.
but can your electric motor spit flames?
dont take this seriously obviously but I sure will miss ICE's when they're gone one day
Porsche: Makes syntetic fuel
Governments and petrol concerns:🧐
i hope that E-fuels upgrade too as theyre expanded on in production. I wanna still drive my jeep renegade
efuel just might save our precious engines 😁
Common sense and stop worshipping at the alter of climate change would soon cure this religious cult.
We might end up in a situation in which using a combustion engine is luxury, while using an electric engine is pedestrian (pun not intended).
That’s not a pun. You’re using that word. But it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
@@AbnormalAspirations pedestrian as walking on foot, and pedestrian as being lower class
That is exactly the case. At best eFuels will be an extremely niche thing for a few enthusiasts that can afford and are willing to buy old technology from Porsche to be used with extremely expensive fuel that is hardly available while the masses will be driving EV's and will be happy about it.
...excellent, comprehensive report...great job.
One more reason to love Porche... ❤❤❤