Porsche recently announced that they will offer reproduction magnesium engine cases to replace the brittle and decomposing originals in their '64 to '78 911.
Porsche is smart, they know their brand is tied to the classic ICE and that their customers are enthusiasts that prefer that style of vehicle, and always will. It's important that we develop a means to keep ICE vehicles for the enthusiast segment that is also taking into account carbon emissions. It's not a huge segment of the market, but a very influential one and should not be ignored. The vast majority of people will drive EVs as their daily drivers, but EVs will never capture all of the classic vehicle market.
In my opinion this is a marketing campaign designed to placate old Porsche enthusiasts until they die and have been replaced by their kids who want to drive EVs
Yep it will be like horses these days. There will be a niche group of people (like myself) that enjoy taking their ICE vehicles to track days and Sunday drives who will use these efuels and ethanol like race fuels. Unless someone is just filthy rich we won't see many people running their daily commuting appliance on efuels. My track day car will always be an ICE stick shift and my commuter will be an EV, and the funny thing my EV is faster than my track car but the track car is just a soulful rewarding experience to drive and work on.
@@patrickcorcoran4828That will be at least 60 years though. I'm 24 and I belong to the group you described. Don't get me wrong most people my age have no problem with EVs but car enthusiasts even under 25 are not fans of EVs.
@@patrickcorcoran4828you think their kids will want to drive EVs? Lol the passion for a vrooming engine gets passed down many a times. If they see enough of their friends for in an exploding lithium battery car they'll want something safer. I hope there is a meeting of technologies between electric batteries and combustible fuels. Maybe a buttery battery with synthetic hydrocarbons and electrolytes in a solution, or gel-like electrolyte that gets switched in and out of cars and they get charged by the fuel station with a solar grid. This way people can just line up, plug in charged jellies, at the gas station and then go, instead of sitting with a plug at the EV charging area for an hour or two.
are they tho? idk vice use to be great but became awful and made stupid articles on against anime and stuff now their laying off so much they pretty much could go bankrupt
Hydrogen is a viable fuel for internal combustion engines. They make is as a step in producing the e-fuel. It would be cheaper, more efficient, and cleaner. CNBC never asks "why not make the 911 run on hydrogen?" This was not a report. it was a commercial for Porsche.
@@seanj3667 this is an expensive way to raise hydrogen. Fuel cells don't scale cheaply. The fuel itself won't be contained cheaply, and adds weight to the vehicle as well. Infrastructure doesn't exist so energy will be expended to create it. Ironically the methanol produced is a great way to store the hydrogen cheaply. But then it costs more energy to get it back out again, so it's more efficient to just burn the methanol or use it in a fuel cell directly.
@@seanj3667 no of course. But it's best to use sunk costs (carbon) before expending new. The existing infrastructure for hydrocarbons can still be used for carbon negative hydrocarbons, for example. That would result in an immediate reduction in carbon in the atmosphere with no additional infrastructure (carbon) cost. Then, when it is ready (yet) carbon can be strategically spent where it will have the greatest impact It requires collective action on multiple fronts now and for ever.
I hope this technology innovates because I don’t want to buy a new car. My old 1997 Celica manual is fun to drive, reliable, and has been super cheap to own. I’ve spent less money on this over the time I have had it than I would spend buying a brand new Chevy bolt I’m totally fine with people buying new Tesla’s or whatever else but I think it should be part of the eco solution for people who want to reuse and maintain their old cars for years to come to be able to do so. Scrapping these cars would be such a wasteful thing
EXACTLY I don’t know why everyone thinks electric evs are more climate friendly, the amount of lithium that needs to be mined, transportation for the batteries to be made which are then transported again to a car assembly factory. Not to mention the fact that most counties simply don’t have the infrastructure to provide 100% clean energy to power these cars.
@@Asjrhwu37317 Why is it people are only concerned about mining for EV batteries and have never been concerned about mining for electronics, or steel or coal or drilling for oil and gas? Mining for battery materials means less steel used in engines and less oil used to run them. Though to be fair batteries are just as recyclable as steel engines and it tends to be car frames rather than engines that rust to nothing and thus can't be recycled. All lifecycle analyses shows the carbon footprint of EVs is a lot lower than ICE cars at the current grid mix of fossil fuel, nuclear and renewable electricity and every year the grid gets cleaner as more wind and solar come online and they shut down the old expensive coal and natural gas power plants.
@@patrickcorcoran4828 have you seen the issues with mining that Lithium, Cobalt and other rare earth materials that happen? EV owners often play advocates for "we are making world better" when all they do is move the issue from one country to another. Fossil fuel/coal/iron mining/drilling is way safer to get compared to battery materials. When was the last time you needed a child without foot wear to mine materials for your $100 000 gas car?
Yep, taking a page from history, if they want to keep the soul of an ICE car they have to create a fueling network that doesn't rely on pumping carbon out of the ground and into the atmosphere. Even if it is five times as expensive as regular fuel these cars get driven so rarely it won't hit the folks who can afford it in the wallet too heavily. I plan on using them for my track day car when they become available, stick shift ICE sports cars all the way for fun. EV for commuting appliances where nearly all measurable environmental impact from cars comes from.
@@burnedmozzarella Yeah for 95% of people EVs will more than meet all their needs once they figure out how to deal with renters and people who don't have dedicated parking spots. The other 5% that enjoys driving will still need combustion engine vehicles (I don't care what 0-60 times EVs can put down with all that torque at zero, they have no soul), but I'm not terribly concerned with 5% of people still using gasoline.
I am 63 years old and I used to be a mechanic at auto repair shop that specialized in Germen cars. Anyone who has a chance to drive a Porsche 911, is for a real treat! Dave...
If we are around $10 per gallon on e-fuel now, with a tiny handful of tiny facilities making this, imagine what will happen in 10 years. These people sound like all the EV-naysayers 10 years ago. Too expensive, too hard, never gonna happen- look at the car market now. I am so beyond thrilled that Porsche also finds it important to continue to enjoy our classic cars in an environmentally responsible way.
Yeah, look at that 3% market share that EVs have now.. big whoop. Soooo many people are confused and think EVs are the future. They aren’t. You’ll see. Internal combustion is going nowhere.
Two small problems mentioned. 1 hydrogen from salt water is still in development stage, and may not be scalable. To make it legal carbon capture has to work. No company, (no matter how much money even the US government has given) has been able to make it work. The video even says how much of a challenge these two problems are. Good luck Porsche.
@@SinlowMusic Toyota has started walking away from hydrogen fuel. And their sleeping on PEVs meant they squandered all the head start that the Prius gave them. They're behind manufacturers like Hyundai, Ford, and Volkswagen now
No... This will be used to sell new cars too. That's why Germany fought the 2035 mandate. EVs make horrible sports cars, and the Germans specialize in sports car. Sports car make up a very small percentage of total cars sold. All the already soulless boring crossovers can go ev...
Sorry environmentalists already decided that farming and/or processing of the materials required to create e-fuels is bad for the environment. Also, it's usually a crop that poor third world countries need for food.
You'll be an EV fan until you realize that the batteries make up an integral part of the structure of the car in most cases and cannot be replaced. Look it up. I was surprised by that too but it makes sense that they would take these kinds of shortcuts because everything today is throw away...
@@lanpartyanimal5215 That's only true of the newest Tesla Model 3's and Tesla Model Y's, but I agree that it is a mistake. You can still replace the batteries since the pack shell is the structural component, not the batteries themselves, but it makes it a lot harder for independent mechanics to fix packs. That fits into Tesla's anti-right-to-repair stance, which I still don't understand because they haven't built out enough service centers to take care of their 11-year-old Model S's.
@@lanpartyanimal5215 Strange that. Cleveleys Electric Vehicles here in Gloucestershire, England, have already replaced and refurbished a number of EV battery packs...... Just because *you* aren't aware of it doesn't mean it can't be done......
Anyone else sees the similarity to quarts watches vs mechanical watches? The quarts almos destroyed brands like rolex and omega by beeing vastly cheaper and more precise. Now most of the quarts brans are dead, overtaken by smart phones and later smart watches. Then the mechanical brands watch companies pivoted to luxury market, emphesizing the history and beauty of mechanics and managed not only to survive but to thrive. Porshe beeing a luxury car manufacturer has been doing this for a while, but with the mass market moving towards electric, if they manage to maintain their combustion engine production through regulatory hurdles they just might become the ultimate rolex of a car.
Another example could be record players and the vinyl records. Objectively an outdated analog technology that nevertheless not only still hangs around but even made a comeback. I’m a classic car lover - if they manage to survive in their niche thanks to efuels I’m happy and totally don’t mind if everyday transportation runs on batteries.
Another useful thing about e-fuel wasn't mentioned is energy transport - you can make e-fuel in Chile and transport it to Europe, but you can't transport just electricity over such a long distance. Another way to look at e-fuel as just a storage for green hydrogen. Hydrogen itself is very light, volatile and low density gas which need heavy high pressure tanks or very low temperature liquification to store, while if you bind it with carbon and make e-fuel, it's easy to store.
Then extract for use as hydrogen how, in what reliable & efficient way? Electricity's very easily transported, not that there's a need when it can just be generated anywhere.
@Unstable sid High voltage AC is cheaper for short distance lines and easier to change voltage. HVDC lines require DC-AC converters, which are more expensive than AC-AC converters, so the efficiency savings over AC are only worthwhile for lines over a certain length.
EVs are great for the majority of drivers. For some of us car enthusiasts, who are the minority, internal combustion vehicles are what causes us excitement. Sports cars, super cars and hyper cars are in low production and used infrequently, hence their carbon footprint being lower than say that of corollas on the road. Glad to see Porsche doing this as it will help keep these amazingly engineered vehicles on the road for the few of us that love them. I’ll gladly pay $10/g to keep my cars on the road. Would get an EV for daily commutes.
Exactly as a 23 year old car enthusiast myself when I heard Toyota was going to release the GR corolla with a six speed manual and a 1.6 L turbo charged in line 3 cylinder that produces 300 hp and 276 foot pounds of torque also with an all-wheel-drive system I about Peed myself with excitement and the icing on the cake is it comes with a mechanical handbrake that’s cable operated, and every other thing is pretty much mechanical the all wheel drive system the waste gate on the turbocharger the cooling system It’s essentially a love letter to the older cars that were all mechanical not to mention it’s a hot hatch, which is cool in itself but it’s purpose built to be fun and fast and put a smile on your face now if they would’ve made the GR corolla electric or even hybrid with a CVT automatic transmission it would’ve just been another dismal car on the road that meant absolutely nothing even if it had performance parts like good suspension and big disc brakes, and the carbon fiber roof that cut its weight down by 22 pounds on the circuit edition and even the much lighter Morizo edition that’s more track focused because it does not have a backseat it would’ve still been very heavy because of the batteries and electric motors, a dismal boring car thank goodness they didn’t do that to the GR corolla life is dismal enough with every new car, being a hybrid or an EV with a CVT transmission with a stupid name so I am very happy what Porsche is doing and I do think it is the answer with the E fuel electric vehicles are not the future at least my future anyway because I won’t be caught dead in one those cars are more like iPhones with a bigger lithium battery. Where is the enthusiasm and passion in that I know they have excellent acceleration, but that’s about all they possess that interest me and that doesn’t really make a fun exciting car that puts a smile on your face every time you drive it because you’re missing one vital component the noise, the noise of a naturally aspirated, or turbo charged and supercharged engine and modifications, of course tuning the engines to make some get more power. That’s also fun which electric cars would be taking away because you really can’t make an electric car go faster by tuning it, or throwing some performance parts to it besides tires and brakes and suspension you really can’t do anything to the battery or the electric motors that I know of anyway but even still, it’s not as enjoyable as there internal combustion engine counterparts
EV's are booring, they all drive the same, EV's are a step to just get people of the vehicles, and use public transportation and be dependent on government and loose their freedom of going anywhere they want and be confined to a 15 minute city and be slaves
EVs are not great for the majority of drivers; they are great for a very small minority of urban drivers - namely those in fairly dense cities in smaller, rich countries. Any timeline to phase out ICEs by X date is nothing but a gamble at this point that we'll have a magical breakthrough in battery tech before that date
I heartily support the Porsche’s synthetic fuel engineers and their management board and I deeply believe that lots of people like me can find an opportunity to invest in such a project only to keep the “real” engines on the road
Managing money is different from accumulating wealth, and the lack of investment education in schools may explain why people struggle to maintain their financial gains. The examples you provided are relevant, and I personally benefited from the market crisis, as I embrace challenging times while others tend to avoid them. Well, at least my advisor does too, jokingly.
Achieving significant returns isn't about volatile stocks; it's about effectively balancing risk and reward. Proper position sizing and leveraging your advantage repeatedly are essential, whether you're a long-term investor or a day trader.
Certainly, many underestimate advisors until emotions lead to losses. A few summers ago, during a tough divorce, I sought a licensed advisor who, through diligent work, boosted my business from $190k to around $720k despite inflation.
The Adviser I'm in touch with is *'Jude Ryan McDonough'* , he works with Merrill, Pierce, Smith incorporated and interviewed on CNBC Television. You can use something else. for me her strategy works hence my result. He provides entry and exit point for the securities I focus on.
12:56 "Consumers aren't going to want these expensive fuels." Madame, we're talking about Porsche 911. It's already a luxury item. You think expensive fuels is going to stop people? And who cares if this is a waste of money. It's Porsche's money, not yours. Let them waste it. If you're that convinced that it's a bad use of money, then just let it happen, and Porsche will learn that lesson on their own. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
Germans sent us to the moon technically. They are the only hope in the auto world. BMW and Toyota will follow suit and likely assist Porsche. Those two brands do not want fully electric either.
@@awilmymartinez3707 the only people that gonna go bankrupt are those buying battery electric. We all know batteries degrade after a certain amount of recharge and the cost to replace those batteries aren't cheap and add the cost of charging and the mileage tax they gonna put on it. for the cost of one of those batteries I can buy all the gas needed for the life of a car, battery electric is just not worth buying.
@@awilmymartinez3707 do you think Toyota only sell cars in the West? The Asian and African markets are decades away from complete EV overhaul. Toyota's hybrid will reign supreme in these markets. While BMW will cater to the growing middle/upper class in the said markets, who don't give 2 cents about electrification.
I bought the 4.0 liter 718 because it's the last ICE version. It is very true that the loyal fans might not embrace the future of this brand. I know I'm not buying any EV for long distance travel or spirted driving.
If $10 per gallon is the thing that keeps one from buying a Porsche, then one is not a Porsche driver. Our fuel in Germany has been at or more than $USD 10 per gallon for years. As a Porsche driver, I could not care less...... I'm happy to pay a premium to continue to drive my 911 Turbo.
Petrol costs only around $3 a gallon, the rest is tax. The $10 is only production cost in 30+ years, once the process is scaled up. Estimated price in 2035 is closer to $16 a gallon plus tax.
@@1marcelfilms There isn't going to be any maintenance for the batteries. It's now coming out that the batteries form an integral part of the car and can't be replaced in most of them. Can you say toxic waste dumps?
@@lanpartyanimal5215 while batteries don't need as much maintenance as ICE component, god foraskes you if it's broken, as it can cost as much as the car itself
Not to forget the core need of a true petrolhead: engine sound! The biggest reason Porsches are bought. Hardly anyone would want a classic Mustang if there wasn't a mindblowing engine sound.
Right. That is for sure. The thing is, is that efuel is baloney. You want REAL gasoline and the highest octane at that for a Porsche , Mustang , etc. The only true source for top grade gasoline is from crude oil. All this talk about climate change, carbon footprint, and sustainability is nothing more than a trick played by the power elites of Western Europe, the U.K., and North America on their own people. Like all these decades has gone by and very little if anything about EV's and now it is like 'oh no, too much carbon in the atmosphere. We should all remember , plants and vegetation breathe in carbon and give off oxygen so that us humans can live. The reasoning of the present day power elites is badly bent out of shape.
Too much legislation, too little advance. Europe goes out of its way to make things "greener", but when Germany's economy gets affected by it (or any of its other members that produce cars), I don't know how eager they would want to just go electric. The infrastructure needs to improve, and the bigger sectors (aviation and marine. Both should be the priority) are taking their time in developing new technologies. Not a single comment about how dirty producing those batteries is, or how to dispose of them when their life runs out. We need way more options than just FEVs. We need better transport which should also be a priority. We need cities that are greener in reality. But what we need the most is to shut off the dumb idea of being "Net Zero" without actually providing better options. Even small steps like an "eFuel" (weird coming from VW) are something. Hydrogen on planes, nuclear ships, etc. We gotta see what the following years bring us.
So the oil industry tells you how dirty battery production is and you just believe that? Battery packs are made out of 300kg of aluminium, 50 kg of plastics, 10 kg of lithium and small amounts of Nickel, Manganese and Cobalt, or alternatively Iron oxide in LFP batteries. How is that dirtier than producing any other big expensive metal product. Then you have to go after big cars first, because almost everybody could just drive around in a subcompact, that weights half as much. When we stop burning fossil fuels, half of the world wide mining operations will cease to exist, which would be a massive improvement for the environment, but that isn't something you would hear from the fossil fuel industry.
I'm about to buy another Cayman, which is their true mid engine car. I'll gladly pay $10.00/gallon to take it out for a drive on the roads. It's not about going really fast but the sound of the engine as a well matched downshift just before a corner puts the car in the perfect balance. I'd own an electric for daily commuting but I'm happily retired so a Honda and a GMC perform well for errands. It's about driver engagement in the experience and Porsche does it best. I owned two Corvettes great cars and a lot of fun but they don't come close.
11:06 is very well done. eFuels will always be less efficient and more expensive than Battery Electric. Excess wind electricity at night will get stored (not wasted). The only way eFuels will be cost effective is with MA$$IVE Tax Payer Subsidies.
Transition into the electric cars while making a limited production line for the E Fuel market. Like said, EFuel will be expensive at first, but cost per gallon will reduce with time and technology.
But the problem there will be that the gradual decline in ICE manufacturing will mean the target market is constantly shrinking. Would you put big bucks into an e fuels market you knew was shrinking from day 1?
@Brian-om2hh I don't believe EVs should be the only solution to climate change, nor should it be an absolute one. The same thing goes for E-fuels. I look at them as options and choices for keeping the earth clean. And sports car manufacturers are exempt from ICE bans, since they make a small amount of cars per year. Porsche and Ferrari are keeping the tradition alive, regardless of the electric future. And I don't even care if Electric cars are slower than the ICE cars. All that matters is that the ICE cars owners will have their fun, while being aware of climate change. And to me, in my honest opinion, I find it quite insulting for car companies trying to make their electric sports cars trying to put in fake sounds and exhaust to make it sound authentic, like, it doesn't really work for me. But if it's something that the customers want, save that as a different or alternative version of the same ICE car being produce at the same time. And we won't go anywhere without making compromises, such as saving electric cars for Econoboxes, and ICEs for sports cars. That way, we could stop demonizing each other, and let us live our lives with the cars we choose. There are also some young people that still want to hear the sound of the engines, so don't generalize that all of them will just suddenly stop and switch to EVs. There's nothing wrong with having that feeling of nostalgia for car sounds, as long as you respect them for having that. With that in mind, I hope this eases the dread of having to give up the passion of car engine sounds that we are all used to for years.
@@hectornecromancer5308 Get real. It's a non starter. It's been estimated the US alone would need around 9000 e fuel manufacturing plants similar to the one in Chile, to supply it's needs..... It's not happening.
I don’t know why everyone thinks electric evs are more climate friendly, the amount of lithium that needs to be mined, transportation for the batteries to be made which are then transported again to a car assembly factory. Not to mention the fact that most counties simply don’t have the infrastructure to provide 100% clean energy to power these cars.
@@Brian-om2hh the one in Chile is currently only pilot scale. Real plants will produce thousands of times as much. There are 120 petroleum refineries in the US alone.
Nothing wrong with efuels as long as they are made properly, but it's all in the use case. They will always be more expensive than just doing an EV on electricity (as the vid points out). So it doesn't make sense for the average consumer. It could be feasible for some rich fella who doesn't care or for some industry where it makes sense due to constraints of alternate types of fuels.
A transition to electric vehicles on a global scale will take a century since billions of people live in electricity starvation. And creating a powerful and flexible grid will cost untold trillions and take decades. Just look at India, they consume less than 1000 kWh/person/year. The average EV driving 10 000 miles a year will require roughly three times that amount. And this doesn't even take into consideration the supply crunch on major materials such as copper.
At time marker 12:13. It was stated 19% is loss at charging. Take you down to 81%. And then you loss 20% in the car. That leaves you 65%. Am I missing something here?
Don't forget... don't run your car to 0 and don't charge over 80%. That takes you to 50% of the electricity you paid for, moving the car but only in summer, when it's not too hot. In winter, you have roughly 20% of the electricity you paid for, available to move you.
@@Johnfisher12345 , nope. I love details and if you're going to put them in your video, they should pass the sniff test. Or at least explain why your numbers are not adding up.
Another major sector that would benefit from e-fuel is the agricultural and forestry sector, running heact equipment day after day under tremenomdous loads is not possible at this time with electric power.
Arguably the biggest upside to efuels is that unlike battery-powered EVs, they don't require a tenfold increase in global mining capacity to make them feasible at scale. Nobody talks about the mineral supply shortfalls, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.
Even at $40 a gallon? Just to give you an idea of the cost ball park, we in Britain have had Aspen synthetic petrol for decades. It costs around £30 to £35 per gallon......
@@Brian-om2hh I live in Canada and we don't have that. Regular or E85... And like they said, It's not scaled yet! Even at 40 yes, I would buy... To help scale the price down! 2$ a gallon is about .65/L It's what I used to pay for my 1st car to fuel, on regular 20 years ago!
The thing is, synthetic hydrocarbons will be necessary in many applications: construction, mining, marine propulsion, and aviation, just to name a few.
Kudos to Porsche for wanting to maintain their heritage and doing something about it, as opposed to refusing to change and just making a lot of noise against EV's. I don't imagine ever owning a Porsche or using efuels but you have to admire their ambition in creating a new fuel source.
The EU proposal did not refer to existing petrol cars, but only to NEW cars. I find it very questionable why many media outlets spread the story that e-fuels are necessary to keep existing cars on the road. The use of petrol in general was NOT part of the EU proposal.
True however firstly they will probably at some point ban gasoline and secondly we already have a lot of tax on regular fuel so it will probably become very expensive. E Fuels wouldnt be taxed the same way
To be honest owning ev car and gasoline car myself using ev car for daily work life and gas sport car for weekend for fun nothing could replace the joy of driving combustion engine bang/pop from exhaust and efficiency of ev it both type of car has it pros and cons neither are perfect it just the person behind the wheel preferences! As long as you drive safely it what matters the most!
The problem is cost. Even if efuels can be made in such a fashion that they are carbon neutral, they will always be far more expensive than electricity for an EV. Meaning it prices out most people.
@ralphdepino9650 No reason for people to be so emotionally tied to a fuel type. Doesn't make sense. Not wanting to drive one while the infra is still being built out or they're higher priced, etc ... sure. But based on it being EV vs gas makes no sense. In the end the average person will care about cost. This alone will make the transition occur.
@ralphdepino9650 They certainly can. The issue is that it'll always be FAR cheaper to run a car on electricity than on efuel. By a large margin. That'll tend to price most people out of it. It isn't that efuel can't co-exist with other options, but simply the economics of it will limit wide-market usefulness.
@@JT_771 It depends because all electric companies don't charge a flat rate you've got your peak and off peak rate, but if a lot of people go battery electric more than likely you won't have off peak rates and rates are gonna go up because of the demand. I'm not for battery evs, I'll either go gas hybrid or hydrogen electric.
I hope more car manufacturers jump on board with E-Fuels. I see EVs as a band aid we are swapping from one CO2 polluter to another. Mining batteries from lithium produces just as much as fossil fuels. I'll hold onto my ICE car for as long as I can. I wonder with E-Fuels would there be a method/application to convert a ICE car to use E-Fuel. If they can accomplish this they will be onto a winner.
E-fuels and current petrol are chemically identical. There would be no need to convert an ICE for the use of e-fuels. Any ICE can use e-fuels. However, e-fuels is no true solution for the problem you see with EV cars. To make e-fuels one has to generate electricity, produce hydrogen and capture carbon from the air, and then combine those to make methanol as explained in the video. But to generate electricity without CO2 you need either windturbines or solar panels. Both require rare earth metals to function and mining those are environmentally polluting in the same way as lithium mining is. And in general those metals are only mined in China, so you have to deal with that country, whereas lithium is mined in many more countries around the world. And, yes, if you want to charge your EV you also need solar panels or windturbines, so you have to deal with mining the same metals. But as EVs are about 5 to 6 times more efficient well to wheel, you need 5 to 6 times less of those metals. And to make hydrogen you need an electrolyzer that also requires some material that need to be mined and thus pollute. This is a step you don't need for an EV. So, you might be familiar with the pollution caused by lithium mining, but the alternatives also need materials to be mined and thus pollute in the same way, but that story isn't told as often. And just to add. Just because there isn't a well-to-wheel emission of CO2, doesn't mean that the same goes for the other tailpipe emissions. In the combustion process in an ICE nitrogen from the outside air bonds with other elements in the combustion and creates NOx. Changing to e-fuels doesn't change that. The same goes for particulate matter, soot and some other trace gasses. Although mostly not contributing to climate change, those pollutants are bad for air quality, cause health problems and have the potential to cause problems for flora and fauna. The only way to get rid of that is to make a change to cars without tailpipe emissions, thus cars with combustion engines.
there are some videos already investigated your pollution concerns. Even if the pollution is the same, I don't want to inhale exhaust at my house vs a power plant burning coal 3000 miles away. Also, for people own a home with reliable charging at night, cannot get any better. Why waste time going to gas station, hydrogen, eFuel station to refill when you can charge at home while you sleep. EV is not perfect and it's not for everyone, but for most daily usage owners, the benefits out-weight the concerns. Of course, there are people still using old tech like DVDs, so not going to go there. Peace.
@@xavierdarche4822 "But to generate electricity without CO2 you need either windturbines or solar panels." False, you need nuclear energy, especially because the waste heat from a nuclear power plant can be used for the production of the e-fuels. "In the combustion process in an ICE nitrogen from the outside air bonds with other elements in the combustion and creates NOx." This is almost completely eliminated from the tailpipe of modern gasoline-burning cars by the catalytic converter. The particulate emissions from modern gasoline vehicles are also negligible. Modern gasoline vehicles are extremely clean and would be significantly cleaner when burning e-fuels, as e-fuels don't contain many of the less desirable compounds which are found in petroleum products and burn cleaner as a result.
@@PistonAvatarGuy Even if you want to use nuclear power plants. You need roughly 6 times as many nuclear power plants if you want to use the electricity to make e-fuels compared to using it for charing BEVs. And even if it's viable to use waste heat for e-fuels, that waste heat can better be used to heat homes, a far more efficient use. So, as you need 6 times as many nuclear power plants, I don't think you can find the political will to build that many extra nuclear power plants in almost any country. At least here in Europe there is already pushback to build any nuclear power plant, let alone build 6x more than the hundreds already needed for a CO2 free electricity production.
@@xavierdarche4822 It's not quite that simple, because you could use a significant amount of energy from a nuclear power plant that is normally wasted, so you'd just be using the system more efficiently. Electric cars also require significantly more energy to produce when compared to ICE vehicles, so that skews the comparison. The following could be true: The electricity produced by a nuclear power plant could be used to power electric vehicles (including public transportation vehicles and trains which are always connected directly to the grid), while the waste heat (which will exist anyway) could be used to produce e-fuels for aircraft and a small number of ICE vehicles on the roads... or on race tracks And, no, you can't often use the waste heat from a nuclear reactor in homes, the distances between the reactors and the homes are typically too great. We're going to need nuclear anyway, so-called "renewables" have been proven to be a pathetic joke.
My dad's Taycan needed a battery replacement after 12k miles and it has been sitting at the shop for 6 months now. When he called, the rep said that there are 3 cars ahead of him so he probably will have to wait even longer. Even service intervals took them weeks to complete while it only took 1 or 2 days for my Tesla. Porsche needs to drastically step up its EV service before customers get tired of being treated like 2nd class citizens, because my dad already swore off Porsches.
@@ViburaBlanca The car line is too new to determine long-term reliability. There's always outliners like my dad's car but it's "supposed" to have little issue up to 50k miles. We need more people getting pass 50k or even 100k to fully determine the actual reliability.
People keep saying electrification is the future, yet I haven't seen a comparison of the impact of mining product for batteries and the carbon emissions compared to internal combustion engines.
Well try considering that the oil industry has been mining cobalt for *decades* and you might begin to get some idea. They need cobalt to remove sulphur during the refining process, and are the largest users of mined minerals on the planet. By contrast, the latest EV's are now using cobalt *free* batteries....... And as for emissions, just try shutting yourself in your garage with your car engine running, and see how long it is before you break the door down to get some air. Then repeat the same thing with a switched on electric car. Then let us know which one you felt was worse for emissions and your well being.......
@@Brian-om2hhWhy must you think that the future of EVs is absolute? You might never know if the E-fuels would work or not, but at least give Porsche some credit. And I believe in compromise, that being keeping EVs for regular economy cars, and ICE cars for small niche markets. So what Porsche is doing here is another way of satisfy the people who like the sound of the ICE engines, while co-existing with the electric cars as well. Ferrari is also doing that as well. These are my hopes for it to be kept alive, but I won't know until we hit 2035 or close to it, since you and me are predicting something that we might not know will happen over the span of the next decade. That being said, we have to explore other solutions to solving climate issues, not just relying solely on Electric cars as the only solution.
Porsche in 2035- So making hydrogen out or water was hard, and so was capturing CO2. So we fracked for natural gas, and split it with electricity from coal fired power plants. We'll figure out the hard parts later. Good news is we aren't using oil any more to make gas.
Almost 30 years ago I built a woodgas generator for my truck. In the last 15 years I have cooked waste plastic to Diesel. Synthetic fuels are nothing new.
No, Porsche is also going electric. The electric Taycan is selling almost as much as the 911. Together with Audi they developed a new high performance electric platform which will be released with the Macan and the Boxster in 1-2 years. The Boxster won't even get a new ice model, it will only be sold as a full electric.
Even if internal combustion engines are banned it would still be good for cement production and in Belgium you often pay €1.90/L for super +98 so the price difference won't be much if they can produce it on a mass scale.
I've talked about this before. Eventually there will be enough excess renewable energy that we will extract carbon from the air, turn it into solid carbon (e-coal, essentially), and rebury back in the coal mines where we found it, to take carbon out of the atmosphere. We will refill empty wells with eTar and ePropane extracted from the air and water.
To compare the reliability of a Porsche even to a simply Toyota is just ludicrous. A ten year old Porsche will need a multitude of repairs and services while the Toyota doesn’t.
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ANY internal combustion engine, whatever the fuel, is inherently less efficient than a battery-powered equivalent. So many moving parts. Every part takes a bit of power. Electric motors are simple, efficient, and require little or no servicing/maintenance. This is due to fail.
11:36 The efficiency argument sounds good on paper, however, an EV has limitations that makes it very limiting for towing, COLD weather, and driving long distances. I Love my EV, I had it for 5 years, perfect car as a daily driver. but for towing, long distances, cold weather and cost, it may takes another 10 years.
The considerations made by Porche's e-fuels managers and HIF's director are kinda iffy. They are taking for granted that someone else will invest and develop two major factors that influence e-fuels production: - Decarbonisation technologies - Sustainable energy production I think these two assumptions are quite big to make...
At least conceptually the idea is that you take the carbon out of the air, the fuel is burned, putting all the carbon back in the air. But since it is carbon you had extracted from the air (vs from oil), the idea is that you have a draw and as such aren't adding to the net amount in the air. In practice it'll depend very heavily on how efuels are actually made.
Norway is close to 100% EVs for new car sales. Globally new EVs were 14% of the market last year and are estimated to be 20% of the market this year. The question is when will it hit over 50% and then a few years later when will a used ICE car have a zero dollar value.
Not according to Shell we won't. Shell's latest business report in Britain stated that they plan to cut the production of both petrol and diesel by 40% on the lead up to 2030...... Who knows what will happen after 2030? There is *no* way anyone will still be extracting and refining crude oil for road fuel in 25 years, let alone decades....... Shell were one of the organisations who lobbied the UK Government to bring *forward* the UK ban on the sale of new ICE cars and vans to 2030, from 2035...... Shell in the UK are investing massively in both renewable energy and EV charging networks...... In Norway, Shell are removing gas/petrol and diesel pumps from their forecourts, to replace them with Rapid EV chargers. Around 60% of Noway's population now drive an EV.....
So I like that Porsche admitted that Direct air capture technology is actually not fully developed. Because in the USA many government officials here lied about whether the tech was up to spec, and it cost many of us hundreds of thousands in losses for investing in such with a false promise.
Its a great idea, and has many merits.BUT providing E fuel world wide will be a problem. Investment will be very high and the price per Ltr will not be sustainable . I wish them all the best as I love Porsche cars
Providing electricity world wide is a bigger problem; investment in that is astronomical & the cost for electricity is constantly increasing worldwide ( not affordable/sustainable by many in the world). There are conversations to be had pro & con on all forms of energy/fuels.
@@Brian-om2hh or powering your EV? Your point is…? The ONLY current solution to clean energy on a large scale is nuclear. Not to mention all the acres of natural habit that don’t have to be destroyed like with all renewable (hate to break it to ya but even if there were solar panels on every roof world wide that wouldn’t be enough)
@@Brian-om2hh Very true; however, you can relatively transport fuel easily all over the world, as well as power vehicles with it. EV powering has a lot of catching up to do- would you agree?
Petty comment here, but why say that two wind turbines in Chile produces as much as six in Germany? Why not 1 compared to 3? The math tutor inside me is disappointed.
EV batteries are not sustainable. Lithium, cobalt and other rare earth materials are finite. Hydrogen and carbon are inexhaustible. Combine that with nuclear power which is zero emission and isn't weather dependant this seems to be a genuine solution.
The fact that they are doing this makes me want to take every penny I own and buy Porsche products or Porsche stock. The title should be “Porsche is smart, they recognize that electric vehicles are not as environmentally sound as we have been lead to believe, also that they can not replace existing vehicles fast enough, what is really needed is a drop in fuel for existing cars”
No, it is ridiculous to think that synthetic fuels are zero emission just because they recirculate the existing carbon that is in the environment. Does not take a science degree to figure out that the global carbon pollutants that are removed from the air, will only to be concentrated in big cities. Who wants that?
@@Brian-om2hh and what about the amount of resources needed to mine the lithium not to mention the transportation to the factories in foreign countries to make / assemble the batteries before there transported to a car manufacturer factory.
the efficiency is just ridiculous to me. that e-fuels don't make sense for cars purely from an efficiency standpoint is a non argument. abundant energy will make this a non argument. shipping and aviation industry will need these kinds of fuels which in turn means that these industries will invest heavily into the infrastructure needed to make e-fuels. when these industries are up and running at full speed, the transport sector can use this to support their own net-zero path. sure EV's are more energy efficient when using them but there is still a large part of the population that actually likes ICE or even needs them because there is no grid to go full electric at this moment.
It is carbon neutral because they are only putting back into the atmosphere what they took out. It does rely on cheap energy to work hence why they are looking at countries like Chile.
You can't put an E at the front of fuel and pretend its a different product. It doesn't matter if you use carbon capture if you're still making gasoline that is still putting exhaust in areas people live. Electricity is going to win!
9 months on , and this isn't aging well. Biofuels are far from Carbon Neutral, even if you pretend that using renewable energy on them instead of charging BEVs with that electricity somehow makes sense. (It doesn't) It's just another pitiful attempt to put off the inevitable. Porsche's first EV has been an expensive white elephant, with horrific depreciation because nobody wants it. RIP Porsche if they carry on like this with their head in the sand.
I really hope something like this is the future. Between the mining for RARE earth materials, the wait of charging, and the lack of infrastructure in the aging electrical grid in this country, I don't know how anyone could think going electric is a great idea.
The global supply of rare earth minerals is controlled by even fewer countries than oil. The absolute majority of them currently in China (!) It's a bit strange that this is not seen as a *huge* problem with electrification. Apparently, that is a problem we will have to deal with later....
@@Jonteponte71 There are deposits of lithium in China, Russia, Scandinavia, Australia, the US, Canada, Chile, Mexico, Bolivia, the Congo, and Cornwall in the UK. The US alone has around 10 massive lithium prospects ongoing, including a 115'000 acre site in Arkansas. Around 35% of the World's lithium is mined in Australia...... Don't associate the word RARE as meaning scarce, because when applied to minerals it means something totally different. It is estimated there is enough lithium to allow the manufacture of EV battery packs for the next 30+ years, by which time the battery recycling industry will have grown hugely. Even today, older EV batteries can be 95% recycled, with the lithium and cobalt being 90% recovered to be reused in new batteries. Is anyone recycling burned petrol, diesel or e fuels?
@@Brian-om2hh Nothing but lies have been told, yes fuels have been recycled for decades, and no ev battery packs are no where near as recyclable as you believe, the chemical structure of a battery once broken into cant be recovered, do you know the chemical structuring that goes into the battery, yeah you dont. currently all mines are exclusively owned by china and were never gonna use our resources why? because ev manufacturers rather use poor african countries to make a profit, otherwise evs would only be for the ultra rich, learn the truth. why do you think we resort to africa for mines if we supposedly have lithium everywhere??? think buddy think, lithium and cobalt mining is nowhere near climate friendly like you believe
@@m4rvinmartian That’s a indescribable passion. If you take your time, restore your carburators and the car runns like new, despite beeing 60 years old, then take a cruise and people come to talk, take pictures and share their storys when their family had cars like this.. To me that’s worth it, even the e-fuel costs.
That rep from the ICCT who says at 12:50 that "there's no way consumers will choose" e-fuels because they're expensive obviously has zero interest in cars as anything more than an appliance. There are plenty of car enthusiasts that will pay premium prices for a fuel that will keep their beloved ICE cars viable into the future. I for one would gladly pay that mentioned 10 dollars a gallon for e-fuel to keep my Nissan GT-Rs viable as weekend toys while continuing to daily drive my EV. I'm sure many gearheads would feel the same way. Besides, she's also missing the point that investments into automotive e-fuel also will likely benefit other transport sectors. Long-haul trucking, maritime freight, and especially long-distance air travel as mentioned in the video are still probably decades away from largely decarbonizing without e-fuels. With car companies pouring money into developing e-fuels that can only help accelerate their possible use in other transport sectors as well. Car manufacturers are the transport sector feeling the most pressure to reduce their carbon footprint so if they don't take the lead in e-fuel development and it's left up to less regulated industries to do it we'll just be further off from the overall goal of significant overall decarbonization.
@@stevemawer848 I know here in the States we're lucky not to pay that much for gas but I know petrolheads over here find so many other things to blow money on that $10 a gallon gas versus not being able to drive their babies would be an easy sacrifice lol.
If this requires hydrogen, this could help a transition to fuel cells for heavy transports As for my personal transport the freedom from a pump has been great so I see EVs as the future of personal transport. Refuel seemed to be the solution looking for a problem as the cost even at $7 a gallon is way too high.
$100 million actually is quite a tiny investment for a car company. E-fuels should be used for planes and not for cars until there is enough supply. Planes can't be electric so far because of the weight of the batteries.
In freezing weather, 40% of the charge is lost to keeping the battery from freezing at night. If it remains cold, the rest is lost the next day while E-Fuels do not evaporate. Hence, the choice between EV and E-Fuel is not so easy, it depends upon the circumstances. E-Fuel is definitely better in a cold environment.
You got your numbers wrong there chief. 40% loss is driving an old gen 1 Tesla Model S with the heat on full blast. Modern EVs use heat pumps so you're looking at a 20%-25% range reduction in cold weather now. Sitting in sub-zero temperatures the battery management system uses 5%-10% per day to maintain the pack. Fortunately people with EVs charge at home, so its plugged in and that loss doesn't matter. I'll take my $0.60 per gallon equivalent electricity even if I do lose a few cents a day for two weeks in the winter.
That’s what some tried to do also with horse and carriage when the ICE came around. We all know what happened. There’s NO ICE vehicle that can compete with an EV performance wise and the fun factor to drive it. A Tesla plaid is much more performant than any Porsche ICE will ever be and the new roadster will be mind blowing. Porsche is trying to hold on to something desperately because they don’t have the know how of mass producing a compelling EV. It’s over for Flinstone ICE technology!😂 For those who really want the engine noise, well they can mimic it in the car cabine without disturbing others outside. They could even mimic the exhaust in the car cabin for the real fans so those outside won’t get cancer. And Toyota, an other brand late to the party, even comes up with fake gears for EVs, how thoughtful.
The fact that Porsche is doing everything possible to keep 911 in production with same engine layout, melts my heart.
THT BEST Porsche Video all types of Porsche in this video th-cam.com/video/4U8PcUcsQ1Q/w-d-xo.html
It just adds to the pedigree of the brand as a true driver’s car brand in my eyes
subaru power !
melts your heart? yuck
Porsche recently announced that they will offer reproduction magnesium engine cases to replace the brittle and decomposing originals in their '64 to '78 911.
Porsche is smart, they know their brand is tied to the classic ICE and that their customers are enthusiasts that prefer that style of vehicle, and always will. It's important that we develop a means to keep ICE vehicles for the enthusiast segment that is also taking into account carbon emissions. It's not a huge segment of the market, but a very influential one and should not be ignored. The vast majority of people will drive EVs as their daily drivers, but EVs will never capture all of the classic vehicle market.
In my opinion this is a marketing campaign designed to placate old Porsche enthusiasts until they die and have been replaced by their kids who want to drive EVs
I wouldn’t say “important”, just a nice to have
Yep it will be like horses these days. There will be a niche group of people (like myself) that enjoy taking their ICE vehicles to track days and Sunday drives who will use these efuels and ethanol like race fuels. Unless someone is just filthy rich we won't see many people running their daily commuting appliance on efuels. My track day car will always be an ICE stick shift and my commuter will be an EV, and the funny thing my EV is faster than my track car but the track car is just a soulful rewarding experience to drive and work on.
@@patrickcorcoran4828That will be at least 60 years though. I'm 24 and I belong to the group you described. Don't get me wrong most people my age have no problem with EVs but car enthusiasts even under 25 are not fans of EVs.
@@patrickcorcoran4828you think their kids will want to drive EVs? Lol the passion for a vrooming engine gets passed down many a times. If they see enough of their friends for in an exploding lithium battery car they'll want something safer. I hope there is a meeting of technologies between electric batteries and combustible fuels. Maybe a buttery battery with synthetic hydrocarbons and electrolytes in a solution, or gel-like electrolyte that gets switched in and out of cars and they get charged by the fuel station with a solar grid. This way people can just line up, plug in charged jellies, at the gas station and then go, instead of sitting with a plug at the EV charging area for an hour or two.
CNBC has been KILLING IT lately. Keep up all the really great reports.
are they tho? idk vice use to be great but became awful and made stupid articles on against anime and stuff now their laying off so much they pretty much could go bankrupt
Hydrogen is a viable fuel for internal combustion engines. They make is as a step in producing the e-fuel. It would be cheaper, more efficient, and cleaner. CNBC never asks "why not make the 911 run on hydrogen?" This was not a report. it was a commercial for Porsche.
@@seanj3667 this is an expensive way to raise hydrogen. Fuel cells don't scale cheaply. The fuel itself won't be contained cheaply, and adds weight to the vehicle as well. Infrastructure doesn't exist so energy will be expended to create it.
Ironically the methanol produced is a great way to store the hydrogen cheaply. But then it costs more energy to get it back out again, so it's more efficient to just burn the methanol or use it in a fuel cell directly.
@@identiticrisis you left out the word "yet" a couple times. They don't scale cheaply... yet. the infrastructure does not exist... yet
@@seanj3667 no of course. But it's best to use sunk costs (carbon) before expending new. The existing infrastructure for hydrocarbons can still be used for carbon negative hydrocarbons, for example. That would result in an immediate reduction in carbon in the atmosphere with no additional infrastructure (carbon) cost.
Then, when it is ready (yet) carbon can be strategically spent where it will have the greatest impact
It requires collective action on multiple fronts now and for ever.
I hope this technology innovates because I don’t want to buy a new car.
My old 1997 Celica manual is fun to drive, reliable, and has been super cheap to own. I’ve spent less money on this over the time I have had it than I would spend buying a brand new Chevy bolt
I’m totally fine with people buying new Tesla’s or whatever else but I think it should be part of the eco solution for people who want to reuse and maintain their old cars for years to come to be able to do so. Scrapping these cars would be such a wasteful thing
You two are doing more for the Earth than any of these EV cvnts.
@@23chnge When the time comes you can do an EV conversion th-cam.com/video/W-s81BO-P-Y/w-d-xo.html
EXACTLY I don’t know why everyone thinks electric evs are more climate friendly, the amount of lithium that needs to be mined, transportation for the batteries to be made which are then transported again to a car assembly factory. Not to mention the fact that most counties simply don’t have the infrastructure to provide 100% clean energy to power these cars.
@@Asjrhwu37317 Why is it people are only concerned about mining for EV batteries and have never been concerned about mining for electronics, or steel or coal or drilling for oil and gas? Mining for battery materials means less steel used in engines and less oil used to run them. Though to be fair batteries are just as recyclable as steel engines and it tends to be car frames rather than engines that rust to nothing and thus can't be recycled.
All lifecycle analyses shows the carbon footprint of EVs is a lot lower than ICE cars at the current grid mix of fossil fuel, nuclear and renewable electricity and every year the grid gets cleaner as more wind and solar come online and they shut down the old expensive coal and natural gas power plants.
@@patrickcorcoran4828 have you seen the issues with mining that Lithium, Cobalt and other rare earth materials that happen?
EV owners often play advocates for "we are making world better" when all they do is move the issue from one country to another. Fossil fuel/coal/iron mining/drilling is way safer to get compared to battery materials. When was the last time you needed a child without foot wear to mine materials for your $100 000 gas car?
I applaud the efforts. Nothing wrong with having options, and the option to keep some of the classic cars on the road is a good one.
they tried with corruption. thats a big problem. heads will roll in germany
@@timopint1125 Corruption isn't illegal in Germany so nothing will happen.
yeah, EV should be 'superior' for people that wants personal transportation, and ICE is for someone that really into cars
Yep, taking a page from history, if they want to keep the soul of an ICE car they have to create a fueling network that doesn't rely on pumping carbon out of the ground and into the atmosphere. Even if it is five times as expensive as regular fuel these cars get driven so rarely it won't hit the folks who can afford it in the wallet too heavily. I plan on using them for my track day car when they become available, stick shift ICE sports cars all the way for fun. EV for commuting appliances where nearly all measurable environmental impact from cars comes from.
@@burnedmozzarella Yeah for 95% of people EVs will more than meet all their needs once they figure out how to deal with renters and people who don't have dedicated parking spots. The other 5% that enjoys driving will still need combustion engine vehicles (I don't care what 0-60 times EVs can put down with all that torque at zero, they have no soul), but I'm not terribly concerned with 5% of people still using gasoline.
I am 63 years old and I used to be a mechanic at auto repair shop that specialized in Germen cars. Anyone who has a chance to drive a Porsche 911, is for a real treat! Dave...
If we are around $10 per gallon on e-fuel now, with a tiny handful of tiny facilities making this, imagine what will happen in 10 years. These people sound like all the EV-naysayers 10 years ago. Too expensive, too hard, never gonna happen- look at the car market now.
I am so beyond thrilled that Porsche also finds it important to continue to enjoy our classic cars in an environmentally responsible way.
Yeah, look at that 3% market share that EVs have now.. big whoop.
Soooo many people are confused and think EVs are the future. They aren’t. You’ll see. Internal combustion is going nowhere.
yah, youll be thrilled when the lectric car wont let you go to on vacation to help save the earth.
@@SwigerQ86 This is you 👉🤡
Two small problems mentioned. 1 hydrogen from salt water is still in development stage, and may not be scalable. To make it legal carbon capture has to work. No company, (no matter how much money even the US government has given) has been able to make it work. The video even says how much of a challenge these two problems are. Good luck Porsche.
@@SwigerQ86 I like clean air with EV.. the earth doesn't need saving. It is the quality of life for living things. Not that it means much to you.
In the car world, this will be an exclusive product for car collectors in the end. It was not meant to be an alternative of EV in the first place.
Toyota wants hydrogen fuel too. They do not believe in full EV either. Pretty sure they're on to something but ok.
@@SinlowMusic Toyota has started walking away from hydrogen fuel. And their sleeping on PEVs meant they squandered all the head start that the Prius gave them.
They're behind manufacturers like Hyundai, Ford, and Volkswagen now
Yea EV cars will be in museums next to the dodo
@@SinlowMusic hydrogen is so far behind. you can buy a hydrogen car right now but it’s only usable in california.
No... This will be used to sell new cars too. That's why Germany fought the 2035 mandate. EVs make horrible sports cars, and the Germans specialize in sports car. Sports car make up a very small percentage of total cars sold. All the already soulless boring crossovers can go ev...
I love this idea! I wonder if this could be a way to bring back the air cooled engine.
th-cam.com/video/ZQfkojLhY7U/w-d-xo.html
I am a die hard EV fan but, if we can get E-fuel to help preserve the old classic Porsche's I am all for it.
We already do, it's called alcohol, and it's been used in engines for nearly two centuries.
Sorry environmentalists already decided that farming and/or processing of the materials required to create e-fuels is bad for the environment.
Also, it's usually a crop that poor third world countries need for food.
You'll be an EV fan until you realize that the batteries make up an integral part of the structure of the car in most cases and cannot be replaced. Look it up. I was surprised by that too but it makes sense that they would take these kinds of shortcuts because everything today is throw away...
@@lanpartyanimal5215 That's only true of the newest Tesla Model 3's and Tesla Model Y's, but I agree that it is a mistake. You can still replace the batteries since the pack shell is the structural component, not the batteries themselves, but it makes it a lot harder for independent mechanics to fix packs. That fits into Tesla's anti-right-to-repair stance, which I still don't understand because they haven't built out enough service centers to take care of their 11-year-old Model S's.
@@lanpartyanimal5215 Strange that. Cleveleys Electric Vehicles here in Gloucestershire, England, have already replaced and refurbished a number of EV battery packs...... Just because *you* aren't aware of it doesn't mean it can't be done......
Anyone else sees the similarity to quarts watches vs mechanical watches? The quarts almos destroyed brands like rolex and omega by beeing vastly cheaper and more precise. Now most of the quarts brans are dead, overtaken by smart phones and later smart watches. Then the mechanical brands watch companies pivoted to luxury market, emphesizing the history and beauty of mechanics and managed not only to survive but to thrive. Porshe beeing a luxury car manufacturer has been doing this for a while, but with the mass market moving towards electric, if they manage to maintain their combustion engine production through regulatory hurdles they just might become the ultimate rolex of a car.
Owned by a tiny few, for a short time, until they're all dead.
Quarts= unit of measurement.
Quartz= a rock.
Another example could be record players and the vinyl records. Objectively an outdated analog technology that nevertheless not only still hangs around but even made a comeback.
I’m a classic car lover - if they manage to survive in their niche thanks to efuels I’m happy and totally don’t mind if everyday transportation runs on batteries.
@@stevieray6216If everyday transportation runs on batteries, that just means more fuel for us to play with.
Another useful thing about e-fuel wasn't mentioned is energy transport - you can make e-fuel in Chile and transport it to Europe, but you can't transport just electricity over such a long distance. Another way to look at e-fuel as just a storage for green hydrogen. Hydrogen itself is very light, volatile and low density gas which need heavy high pressure tanks or very low temperature liquification to store, while if you bind it with carbon and make e-fuel, it's easy to store.
Then extract for use as hydrogen how, in what reliable & efficient way? Electricity's very easily transported, not that there's a need when it can just be generated anywhere.
Electricity can easily be transported very long distances with high voltage DC lines.
Yeah no, electricity is easily transported over far distances. It would be cheaper to do that
@@bftjoe so why are we using AC then?
@Unstable sid High voltage AC is cheaper for short distance lines and easier to change voltage. HVDC lines require DC-AC converters, which are more expensive than AC-AC converters, so the efficiency savings over AC are only worthwhile for lines over a certain length.
EVs are great for the majority of drivers. For some of us car enthusiasts, who are the minority, internal combustion vehicles are what causes us excitement. Sports cars, super cars and hyper cars are in low production and used infrequently, hence their carbon footprint being lower than say that of corollas on the road. Glad to see Porsche doing this as it will help keep these amazingly engineered vehicles on the road for the few of us that love them. I’ll gladly pay $10/g to keep my cars on the road. Would get an EV for daily commutes.
Evs are great in what way? Straight line acceleration? Nothing else is appealing about them.
Exactly as a 23 year old car enthusiast myself when I heard Toyota was going to release the GR corolla with a six speed manual and a 1.6 L turbo charged in line 3 cylinder that produces 300 hp and 276 foot pounds of torque also with an all-wheel-drive system I about Peed myself with excitement and the icing on the cake is it comes with a mechanical handbrake that’s cable operated, and every other thing is pretty much mechanical the all wheel drive system the waste gate on the turbocharger the cooling system It’s essentially a love letter to the older cars that were all mechanical not to mention it’s a hot hatch, which is cool in itself but it’s purpose built to be fun and fast and put a smile on your face now if they would’ve made the GR corolla electric or even hybrid with a CVT automatic transmission it would’ve just been another dismal car on the road that meant absolutely nothing even if it had performance parts like good suspension and big disc brakes, and the carbon fiber roof that cut its weight down by 22 pounds on the circuit edition and even the much lighter Morizo edition that’s more track focused because it does not have a backseat it would’ve still been very heavy because of the batteries and electric motors, a dismal boring car thank goodness they didn’t do that to the GR corolla life is dismal enough with every new car, being a hybrid or an EV with a CVT transmission with a stupid name so I am very happy what Porsche is doing and I do think it is the answer with the E fuel electric vehicles are not the future at least my future anyway because I won’t be caught dead in one those cars are more like iPhones with a bigger lithium battery. Where is the enthusiasm and passion in that I know they have excellent acceleration, but that’s about all they possess that interest me and that doesn’t really make a fun exciting car that puts a smile on your face every time you drive it because you’re missing one vital component the noise, the noise of a naturally aspirated, or turbo charged and supercharged engine and modifications, of course tuning the engines to make some get more power. That’s also fun which electric cars would be taking away because you really can’t make an electric car go faster by tuning it, or throwing some performance parts to it besides tires and brakes and suspension you really can’t do anything to the battery or the electric motors that I know of anyway but even still, it’s not as enjoyable as there internal combustion engine counterparts
EV's are booring, they all drive the same, EV's are a step to just get people of the vehicles, and use public transportation and be dependent on government and loose their freedom of going anywhere they want and be confined to a 15 minute city and be slaves
EVs are not great for the majority of drivers; they are great for a very small minority of urban drivers - namely those in fairly dense cities in smaller, rich countries. Any timeline to phase out ICEs by X date is nothing but a gamble at this point that we'll have a magical breakthrough in battery tech before that date
I like dinosaurs too!
I heartily support the Porsche’s synthetic fuel engineers and their management board and I deeply believe that lots of people like me can find an opportunity to invest in such a project only to keep the “real” engines on the road
Managing money is different from accumulating wealth, and the lack of investment education in schools may explain why people struggle to maintain their financial gains. The examples you provided are relevant, and I personally benefited from the market crisis, as I embrace challenging times while others tend to avoid them. Well, at least my advisor does too, jokingly.
Achieving significant returns isn't about volatile stocks; it's about effectively balancing risk and reward. Proper position sizing and leveraging your advantage repeatedly are essential, whether you're a long-term investor or a day trader.
Certainly, many underestimate advisors until emotions lead to losses. A few summers ago, during a tough divorce, I sought a licensed advisor who, through diligent work, boosted my business from $190k to around $720k despite inflation.
wow that’s stirring! Do you mind connecting me to your advisor please. I desperately need one to diversified my portfolio.
The Adviser I'm in touch with is *'Jude Ryan McDonough'* , he works with Merrill, Pierce, Smith incorporated and interviewed on CNBC Television. You can use something else. for me her strategy works hence my result. He provides entry and exit point for the securities I focus on.
Thanks, I just googled him I'm really impressed with his credentials. I reached out to him since I need all the assistance I can get.
12:56 "Consumers aren't going to want these expensive fuels." Madame, we're talking about Porsche 911. It's already a luxury item. You think expensive fuels is going to stop people? And who cares if this is a waste of money. It's Porsche's money, not yours. Let them waste it. If you're that convinced that it's a bad use of money, then just let it happen, and Porsche will learn that lesson on their own. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
Big up on cnbc of producing quality business docs
as a classic Beetle owner (poor mans Porsche) and lover of the rear engine i say bring it on and i support it ... thank you Porsche
The beetle is the most popular EV conversion. th-cam.com/video/Nzos5qz3_A4/w-d-xo.html
Germans sent us to the moon technically. They are the only hope in the auto world. BMW and Toyota will follow suit and likely assist Porsche. Those two brands do not want fully electric either.
That’s why they all will go bankrupt pretty soon
@@awilmymartinez3707 the only people that gonna go bankrupt are those buying battery electric. We all know batteries degrade after a certain amount of recharge and the cost to replace those batteries aren't cheap and add the cost of charging and the mileage tax they gonna put on it. for the cost of one of those batteries I can buy all the gas needed for the life of a car, battery electric is just not worth buying.
@@awilmymartinez3707 "Are you sure about that? Are you suuuuuure about that?"
@@awilmymartinez3707 Toyota? Bankrupt? Dude😂
@@awilmymartinez3707 do you think Toyota only sell cars in the West? The Asian and African markets are decades away from complete EV overhaul. Toyota's hybrid will reign supreme in these markets. While BMW will cater to the growing middle/upper class in the said markets, who don't give 2 cents about electrification.
e or no fuel, we love our 911s!!!
I don't have one , so FU
@14:58 this lady is mad that Porsche found a way around "electrification" for now 😂
I bought the 4.0 liter 718 because it's the last ICE version. It is very true that the loyal fans might not embrace the future of this brand. I know I'm not buying any EV for long distance travel or spirted driving.
If $10 per gallon is the thing that keeps one from buying a Porsche, then one is not a Porsche driver. Our fuel in Germany has been at or more than $USD 10 per gallon for years. As a Porsche driver, I could not care less...... I'm happy to pay a premium to continue to drive my 911 Turbo.
If there is one thing countries are known for, its keeping commitments it made 12 years prior.
🤣
Porscha is great to drive. This is why I love both German and Japanese cars so much!!!!
Its porsche, not porscha murricans cant pronounce anything its crazy.
U folks at CNBC do a great job on these auto-related “series” stories - topical and informative. Please produce more.
Petrol is $8.29 per gallon in the UK so $10 per gallon seems alright for efuel 😅
Petrol costs only around $3 a gallon, the rest is tax. The $10 is only production cost in 30+ years, once the process is scaled up. Estimated price in 2035 is closer to $16 a gallon plus tax.
@@Psi-Storm Still cheaper than buying an expensive electric car and maintenance for batteries
@@1marcelfilms There isn't going to be any maintenance for the batteries. It's now coming out that the batteries form an integral part of the car and can't be replaced in most of them. Can you say toxic waste dumps?
@@lanpartyanimal5215 while batteries don't need as much maintenance as ICE component, god foraskes you if it's broken, as it can cost as much as the car itself
how is it $8+ that makes no sense.... $5 is insane and $3 per gallon is normal
Not to forget the core need of a true petrolhead: engine sound! The biggest reason Porsches are bought. Hardly anyone would want a classic Mustang if there wasn't a mindblowing engine sound.
Right. That is for sure. The thing is, is that efuel is baloney. You want REAL gasoline and the highest octane at that for a Porsche , Mustang , etc. The only true source for top grade gasoline is from crude oil. All this talk about climate change, carbon footprint, and sustainability is nothing more than a trick played by the power elites of Western Europe, the U.K., and North America on their own people. Like all these decades has gone by and very little if anything about EV's and now it is like 'oh no, too much carbon in the atmosphere. We should all remember , plants and vegetation breathe in carbon and give off oxygen so that us humans can live. The reasoning of the present day power elites is badly bent out of shape.
Thank you porsche! Keep this up and save the car guys!
Great, thank goodness for sensible and realistic fuel solutions from Germany!!!
Hopefully they won’t cheat this time like with dieselgate …
Too much legislation, too little advance. Europe goes out of its way to make things "greener", but when Germany's economy gets affected by it (or any of its other members that produce cars), I don't know how eager they would want to just go electric. The infrastructure needs to improve, and the bigger sectors (aviation and marine. Both should be the priority) are taking their time in developing new technologies.
Not a single comment about how dirty producing those batteries is, or how to dispose of them when their life runs out. We need way more options than just FEVs. We need better transport which should also be a priority. We need cities that are greener in reality. But what we need the most is to shut off the dumb idea of being "Net Zero" without actually providing better options. Even small steps like an "eFuel" (weird coming from VW) are something. Hydrogen on planes, nuclear ships, etc. We gotta see what the following years bring us.
So the oil industry tells you how dirty battery production is and you just believe that? Battery packs are made out of 300kg of aluminium, 50 kg of plastics, 10 kg of lithium and small amounts of Nickel, Manganese and Cobalt, or alternatively Iron oxide in LFP batteries. How is that dirtier than producing any other big expensive metal product. Then you have to go after big cars first, because almost everybody could just drive around in a subcompact, that weights half as much. When we stop burning fossil fuels, half of the world wide mining operations will cease to exist, which would be a massive improvement for the environment, but that isn't something you would hear from the fossil fuel industry.
We do have nuclear ships
Excellent report. Watched it twice, once by myself and then with my college age engineer son. Good stuff.
I'm about to buy another Cayman, which is their true mid engine car. I'll gladly pay $10.00/gallon to take it out for a drive on the roads. It's not about going really fast but the sound of the engine as a well matched downshift just before a corner puts the car in the perfect balance. I'd own an electric for daily commuting but I'm happily retired so a Honda and a GMC perform well for errands. It's about driver engagement in the experience and Porsche does it best. I owned two Corvettes great cars and a lot of fun but they don't come close.
th-cam.com/video/ZQfkojLhY7U/w-d-xo.html
11:06 is very well done. eFuels will always be less efficient and more expensive than Battery Electric.
Excess wind electricity at night will get stored (not wasted). The only way eFuels will be cost effective is with MA$$IVE Tax Payer Subsidies.
And what do you think the huge consumer incentives to buy BEVs come from?
Transition into the electric cars while making a limited production line for the E Fuel market.
Like said, EFuel will be expensive at first, but cost per gallon will reduce with time and technology.
By the time E fuel has any advantages, battery EV adoption will be over 70%. EFuel and hydrogen are DOA.
@@nguyep4 That's interesting. The same exact things were said about EV's when mpg regulations were introduced.
But the problem there will be that the gradual decline in ICE manufacturing will mean the target market is constantly shrinking. Would you put big bucks into an e fuels market you knew was shrinking from day 1?
@Brian-om2hh I don't believe EVs should be the only solution to climate change, nor should it be an absolute one. The same thing goes for E-fuels. I look at them as options and choices for keeping the earth clean.
And sports car manufacturers are exempt from ICE bans, since they make a small amount of cars per year.
Porsche and Ferrari are keeping the tradition alive, regardless of the electric future.
And I don't even care if Electric cars are slower than the ICE cars. All that matters is that the ICE cars owners will have their fun, while being aware of climate change.
And to me, in my honest opinion, I find it quite insulting for car companies trying to make their electric sports cars trying to put in fake sounds and exhaust to make it sound authentic, like, it doesn't really work for me. But if it's something that the customers want, save that as a different or alternative version of the same ICE car being produce at the same time.
And we won't go anywhere without making compromises, such as saving electric cars for Econoboxes, and ICEs for sports cars. That way, we could stop demonizing each other, and let us live our lives with the cars we choose.
There are also some young people that still want to hear the sound of the engines, so don't generalize that all of them will just suddenly stop and switch to EVs. There's nothing wrong with having that feeling of nostalgia for car sounds, as long as you respect them for having that.
With that in mind, I hope this eases the dread of having to give up the passion of car engine sounds that we are all used to for years.
@@nguyep4try a Ev plane to get across the Atlantic lol 😂
Misleading title. Synthetic fuels work for all cars even boats. Anything that runs on gas already
As an Engineer I like the idea but it’s never going to be on parity with fuel and never going to be cheaper than EV.
For now, not yet
@@hectornecromancer5308 Get real. It's a non starter. It's been estimated the US alone would need around 9000 e fuel manufacturing plants similar to the one in Chile, to supply it's needs..... It's not happening.
I don’t know why everyone thinks electric evs are more climate friendly, the amount of lithium that needs to be mined, transportation for the batteries to be made which are then transported again to a car assembly factory. Not to mention the fact that most counties simply don’t have the infrastructure to provide 100% clean energy to power these cars.
@@Brian-om2hh the one in Chile is currently only pilot scale. Real plants will produce thousands of times as much.
There are 120 petroleum refineries in the US alone.
It’s a lost proposition…. Gas is going nowhere
Nothing wrong with efuels as long as they are made properly, but it's all in the use case.
They will always be more expensive than just doing an EV on electricity (as the vid points out). So it doesn't make sense for the average consumer. It could be feasible for some rich fella who doesn't care or for some industry where it makes sense due to constraints of alternate types of fuels.
EAT THE RICH!
Yea but thats normal, every new tech breakthrough is expensive until its easy to produce through many years of work and then price decreases.
@@minecraft101fever It's the same story with electronic goods like TV and smartphones. First gen products always cost a lot to buy.
A transition to electric vehicles on a global scale will take a century since billions of people live in electricity starvation. And creating a powerful and flexible grid will cost untold trillions and take decades. Just look at India, they consume less than 1000 kWh/person/year. The average EV driving 10 000 miles a year will require roughly three times that amount. And this doesn't even take into consideration the supply crunch on major materials such as copper.
@@SweBeach2023 this
Great documentary. One of the best regarding Decarbonization!
At time marker 12:13. It was stated 19% is loss at charging. Take you down to 81%. And then you loss 20% in the car. That leaves you 65%. Am I missing something here?
It surprises you that EV advocates aren’t intellectually honest when talking about EVs?
Don't forget... don't run your car to 0 and don't charge over 80%. That takes you to 50% of the electricity you paid for, moving the car but only in summer, when it's not too hot.
In winter, you have roughly 20% of the electricity you paid for, available to move you.
Probably. The point seems to be that 65% is much higher than the 16 or 17? of ICE engines.
@@Johnfisher12345 , nope. I love details and if you're going to put them in your video, they should pass the sniff test. Or at least explain why your numbers are not adding up.
GO PORSCHE!!!! I want bang bang bang from my cars exhaust!
Another major sector that would benefit from e-fuel is the agricultural and forestry sector, running heact equipment day after day under tremenomdous loads is not possible at this time with electric power.
Would benefit more from more batteries & charging infrastructure. Carbon vapor poison pumps aren't needed.
Hence JCB's hydrogen policy.
gr8 material, thank you for that!
Arguably the biggest upside to efuels is that unlike battery-powered EVs, they don't require a tenfold increase in global mining capacity to make them feasible at scale. Nobody talks about the mineral supply shortfalls, but that doesn't mean they don't exist, and anyone who claims otherwise is delusional.
My ultimate dream car is the 1973 Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7 Lightweight to me is one of the greatest 911's ever made IMHO.
E fuel all the way for me!
Even at $40 a gallon? Just to give you an idea of the cost ball park, we in Britain have had Aspen synthetic petrol for decades. It costs around £30 to £35 per gallon......
@@Brian-om2hh I live in Canada and we don't have that. Regular or E85... And like they said, It's not scaled yet! Even at 40 yes, I would buy... To help scale the price down! 2$ a gallon is about .65/L It's what I used to pay for my 1st car to fuel, on regular 20 years ago!
The thing is, synthetic hydrocarbons will be necessary in many applications: construction, mining, marine propulsion, and aviation, just to name a few.
Kudos to Porsche for wanting to maintain their heritage and doing something about it, as opposed to refusing to change and just making a lot of noise against EV's. I don't imagine ever owning a Porsche or using efuels but you have to admire their ambition in creating a new fuel source.
The EU proposal did not refer to existing petrol cars, but only to NEW cars. I find it very questionable why many media outlets spread the story that e-fuels are necessary to keep existing cars on the road. The use of petrol in general was NOT part of the EU proposal.
True however firstly they will probably at some point ban gasoline and secondly we already have a lot of tax on regular fuel so it will probably become very expensive. E Fuels wouldnt be taxed the same way
@@burgholte Great points
To be honest owning ev car and gasoline car myself using ev car for daily work life and gas sport car for weekend for fun nothing could replace the joy of driving combustion engine bang/pop from exhaust and efficiency of ev it both type of car has it pros and cons neither are perfect it just the person behind the wheel preferences! As long as you drive safely it what matters the most!
eFuel Baby 🎉💪🏻🗿
Better than EVs. You have my respect, Porsche.
No, not better than EVs & never will be.
The problem is cost. Even if efuels can be made in such a fashion that they are carbon neutral, they will always be far more expensive than electricity for an EV. Meaning it prices out most people.
@ralphdepino9650 No reason for people to be so emotionally tied to a fuel type. Doesn't make sense. Not wanting to drive one while the infra is still being built out or they're higher priced, etc ... sure. But based on it being EV vs gas makes no sense.
In the end the average person will care about cost. This alone will make the transition occur.
@ralphdepino9650 They certainly can. The issue is that it'll always be FAR cheaper to run a car on electricity than on efuel. By a large margin. That'll tend to price most people out of it. It isn't that efuel can't co-exist with other options, but simply the economics of it will limit wide-market usefulness.
@@JT_771 It depends because all electric companies don't charge a flat rate you've got your peak and off peak rate, but if a lot of people go battery electric more than likely you won't have off peak rates and rates are gonna go up because of the demand. I'm not for battery evs, I'll either go gas hybrid or hydrogen electric.
Porsche will be the Nokia or Microsoft mobile of the car world. Mark my words.
I hope more car manufacturers jump on board with E-Fuels. I see EVs as a band aid we are swapping from one CO2 polluter to another. Mining batteries from lithium produces just as much as fossil fuels. I'll hold onto my ICE car for as long as I can. I wonder with E-Fuels would there be a method/application to convert a ICE car to use E-Fuel. If they can accomplish this they will be onto a winner.
E-fuels and current petrol are chemically identical. There would be no need to convert an ICE for the use of e-fuels. Any ICE can use e-fuels.
However, e-fuels is no true solution for the problem you see with EV cars. To make e-fuels one has to generate electricity, produce hydrogen and capture carbon from the air, and then combine those to make methanol as explained in the video. But to generate electricity without CO2 you need either windturbines or solar panels. Both require rare earth metals to function and mining those are environmentally polluting in the same way as lithium mining is. And in general those metals are only mined in China, so you have to deal with that country, whereas lithium is mined in many more countries around the world. And, yes, if you want to charge your EV you also need solar panels or windturbines, so you have to deal with mining the same metals. But as EVs are about 5 to 6 times more efficient well to wheel, you need 5 to 6 times less of those metals.
And to make hydrogen you need an electrolyzer that also requires some material that need to be mined and thus pollute. This is a step you don't need for an EV.
So, you might be familiar with the pollution caused by lithium mining, but the alternatives also need materials to be mined and thus pollute in the same way, but that story isn't told as often.
And just to add. Just because there isn't a well-to-wheel emission of CO2, doesn't mean that the same goes for the other tailpipe emissions. In the combustion process in an ICE nitrogen from the outside air bonds with other elements in the combustion and creates NOx. Changing to e-fuels doesn't change that. The same goes for particulate matter, soot and some other trace gasses. Although mostly not contributing to climate change, those pollutants are bad for air quality, cause health problems and have the potential to cause problems for flora and fauna. The only way to get rid of that is to make a change to cars without tailpipe emissions, thus cars with combustion engines.
there are some videos already investigated your pollution concerns. Even if the pollution is the same, I don't want to inhale exhaust at my house vs a power plant burning coal 3000 miles away. Also, for people own a home with reliable charging at night, cannot get any better. Why waste time going to gas station, hydrogen, eFuel station to refill when you can charge at home while you sleep. EV is not perfect and it's not for everyone, but for most daily usage owners, the benefits out-weight the concerns. Of course, there are people still using old tech like DVDs, so not going to go there. Peace.
@@xavierdarche4822 "But to generate electricity without CO2 you need either windturbines or solar panels."
False, you need nuclear energy, especially because the waste heat from a nuclear power plant can be used for the production of the e-fuels.
"In the combustion process in an ICE nitrogen from the outside air bonds with other elements in the combustion and creates NOx."
This is almost completely eliminated from the tailpipe of modern gasoline-burning cars by the catalytic converter. The particulate emissions from modern gasoline vehicles are also negligible. Modern gasoline vehicles are extremely clean and would be significantly cleaner when burning e-fuels, as e-fuels don't contain many of the less desirable compounds which are found in petroleum products and burn cleaner as a result.
@@PistonAvatarGuy Even if you want to use nuclear power plants. You need roughly 6 times as many nuclear power plants if you want to use the electricity to make e-fuels compared to using it for charing BEVs. And even if it's viable to use waste heat for e-fuels, that waste heat can better be used to heat homes, a far more efficient use.
So, as you need 6 times as many nuclear power plants, I don't think you can find the political will to build that many extra nuclear power plants in almost any country. At least here in Europe there is already pushback to build any nuclear power plant, let alone build 6x more than the hundreds already needed for a CO2 free electricity production.
@@xavierdarche4822 It's not quite that simple, because you could use a significant amount of energy from a nuclear power plant that is normally wasted, so you'd just be using the system more efficiently. Electric cars also require significantly more energy to produce when compared to ICE vehicles, so that skews the comparison.
The following could be true: The electricity produced by a nuclear power plant could be used to power electric vehicles (including public transportation vehicles and trains which are always connected directly to the grid), while the waste heat (which will exist anyway) could be used to produce e-fuels for aircraft and a small number of ICE vehicles on the roads... or on race tracks
And, no, you can't often use the waste heat from a nuclear reactor in homes, the distances between the reactors and the homes are typically too great.
We're going to need nuclear anyway, so-called "renewables" have been proven to be a pathetic joke.
Thank god for Germany’s vote and Porsche’s ingenuity.
the taycan is already well-designed
My dad's Taycan needed a battery replacement after 12k miles and it has been sitting at the shop for 6 months now. When he called, the rep said that there are 3 cars ahead of him so he probably will have to wait even longer. Even service intervals took them weeks to complete while it only took 1 or 2 days for my Tesla. Porsche needs to drastically step up its EV service before customers get tired of being treated like 2nd class citizens, because my dad already swore off Porsches.
@@duerf5826 My mom has one and its holding up so far 30k miles.
@@ViburaBlanca The car line is too new to determine long-term reliability. There's always outliners like my dad's car but it's "supposed" to have little issue up to 50k miles. We need more people getting pass 50k or even 100k to fully determine the actual reliability.
@@duerf5826 I concur.
People keep saying electrification is the future, yet I haven't seen a comparison of the impact of mining product for batteries and the carbon emissions compared to internal combustion engines.
Well try considering that the oil industry has been mining cobalt for *decades* and you might begin to get some idea. They need cobalt to remove sulphur during the refining process, and are the largest users of mined minerals on the planet. By contrast, the latest EV's are now using cobalt *free* batteries....... And as for emissions, just try shutting yourself in your garage with your car engine running, and see how long it is before you break the door down to get some air. Then repeat the same thing with a switched on electric car. Then let us know which one you felt was worse for emissions and your well being.......
@@Brian-om2hhWhy must you think that the future of EVs is absolute? You might never know if the E-fuels would work or not, but at least give Porsche some credit.
And I believe in compromise, that being keeping EVs for regular economy cars, and ICE cars for small niche markets.
So what Porsche is doing here is another way of satisfy the people who like the sound of the ICE engines, while co-existing with the electric cars as well.
Ferrari is also doing that as well.
These are my hopes for it to be kept alive, but I won't know until we hit 2035 or close to it, since you and me are predicting something that we might not know will happen over the span of the next decade.
That being said, we have to explore other solutions to solving climate issues, not just relying solely on Electric cars as the only solution.
Porsche in 2035- So making hydrogen out or water was hard, and so was capturing CO2. So we fracked for natural gas, and split it with electricity from coal fired power plants. We'll figure out the hard parts later. Good news is we aren't using oil any more to make gas.
Almost 30 years ago I built a woodgas generator for my truck. In the last 15 years I have cooked waste plastic to Diesel. Synthetic fuels are nothing new.
While every other car manufactor is going Electric Porsche is sticking with Gas.
Hey, it's called efuel!
@@KontenderTV so its both electric and gas? Hmm?
No, Porsche is also going electric. The electric Taycan is selling almost as much as the 911. Together with Audi they developed a new high performance electric platform which will be released with the Macan and the Boxster in 1-2 years. The Boxster won't even get a new ice model, it will only be sold as a full electric.
Lamborghini and Toyota
Even if internal combustion engines are banned it would still be good for cement production and in Belgium you often pay €1.90/L for super +98 so the price difference won't be much if they can produce it on a mass scale.
I've talked about this before. Eventually there will be enough excess renewable energy that we will extract carbon from the air, turn it into solid carbon (e-coal, essentially), and rebury back in the coal mines where we found it, to take carbon out of the atmosphere. We will refill empty wells with eTar and ePropane extracted from the air and water.
Dude what 🤣🤣🤣
lol thanks for the laugh
To compare the reliability of a Porsche even to a simply Toyota is just ludicrous. A ten year old Porsche will need a multitude of repairs and services while the Toyota doesn’t.
But thats a good thing!I
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"eFuel"...what a grift. Just call it gas and leave it at status quo.
ANY internal combustion engine, whatever the fuel, is inherently less efficient than a battery-powered equivalent. So many moving parts. Every part takes a bit of power. Electric motors are simple, efficient, and require little or no servicing/maintenance. This is due to fail.
EVs are great for the environment until you start to talk about how the batteries are made or how the electricity is generated.
11:36 The efficiency argument sounds good on paper, however, an EV has limitations that makes it very limiting for towing, COLD weather, and driving long distances. I Love my EV, I had it for 5 years, perfect car as a daily driver. but for towing, long distances, cold weather and cost, it may takes another 10 years.
The considerations made by Porche's e-fuels managers and HIF's director are kinda iffy.
They are taking for granted that someone else will invest and develop two major factors that influence e-fuels production:
- Decarbonisation technologies
- Sustainable energy production
I think these two assumptions are quite big to make...
What about tailpipe emissions?
At least conceptually the idea is that you take the carbon out of the air, the fuel is burned, putting all the carbon back in the air. But since it is carbon you had extracted from the air (vs from oil), the idea is that you have a draw and as such aren't adding to the net amount in the air.
In practice it'll depend very heavily on how efuels are actually made.
@@JT_771 Doesn't address the prob of the other poisons.
@@heinousanus9352 This is true. On the upside, efuels have so many problems they'll never be in contention for wide use.
An all electric future is not as close as people think. We’ll still have normal gasoline for the next few decades
Norway is close to 100% EVs for new car sales. Globally new EVs were 14% of the market last year and are estimated to be 20% of the market this year. The question is when will it hit over 50% and then a few years later when will a used ICE car have a zero dollar value.
Not according to Shell we won't. Shell's latest business report in Britain stated that they plan to cut the production of both petrol and diesel by 40% on the lead up to 2030...... Who knows what will happen after 2030? There is *no* way anyone will still be extracting and refining crude oil for road fuel in 25 years, let alone decades....... Shell were one of the organisations who lobbied the UK Government to bring *forward* the UK ban on the sale of new ICE cars and vans to 2030, from 2035...... Shell in the UK are investing massively in both renewable energy and EV charging networks...... In Norway, Shell are removing gas/petrol and diesel pumps from their forecourts, to replace them with Rapid EV chargers. Around 60% of Noway's population now drive an EV.....
So I like that Porsche admitted that Direct air capture technology is actually not fully developed. Because in the USA many government officials here lied about whether the tech was up to spec, and it cost many of us hundreds of thousands in losses for investing in such with a false promise.
THT BEST Porsche Video all types of Porsche in this video th-cam.com/video/4U8PcUcsQ1Q/w-d-xo.html
Can you inform who the many government officials that lied are?
Carbon Neutral fuel, Biofuels, and EFuels(Abiotic-Fuels) can be great and go together to complement future needs
this sounds like a massive pipedream right now, I am sure this will be discontinued soon if scaling has any hiccups.
Its a great idea, and has many merits.BUT providing E fuel world wide will be a problem. Investment will be very high and the price per Ltr will not be sustainable . I wish them all the best as I love Porsche cars
Providing electricity world wide is a bigger problem; investment in that is astronomical & the cost for electricity is constantly increasing worldwide ( not affordable/sustainable by many in the world). There are conversations to be had pro & con on all forms of energy/fuels.
@@mrmoss149 But of course you'd need the electricity in the first place, to manufacture the e fuel.........
@@Brian-om2hh or powering your EV? Your point is…? The ONLY current solution to clean energy on a large scale is nuclear. Not to mention all the acres of natural habit that don’t have to be destroyed like with all renewable (hate to break it to ya but even if there were solar panels on every roof world wide that wouldn’t be enough)
@@Brian-om2hh Very true; however, you can relatively transport fuel easily all over the world, as well as power vehicles with it. EV powering has a lot of catching up to do- would you agree?
Petty comment here, but why say that two wind turbines in Chile produces as much as six in Germany? Why not 1 compared to 3? The math tutor inside me is disappointed.
Peeps like you work for Tesla, peeps who don't know 2/6 is reducible to 1/3 work for Porsche. 🤣
I saw the wind mills installation in Patagonia. They are impressive.
A few years ago, I saw oil wells--the pump jacks in Alberta Canada. They are very impressive.
German engineering 😍😍
plastic engine
Broken engines as soon as warrenty runs out
@@604h22a you're getting confused with American cars.
🤢🤮
American cars aren’t nearly as reliable as European cars
EV batteries are not sustainable. Lithium, cobalt and other rare earth materials are finite. Hydrogen and carbon are inexhaustible. Combine that with nuclear power which is zero emission and isn't weather dependant this seems to be a genuine solution.
The fact that they are doing this makes me want to take every penny I own and buy Porsche products or Porsche stock. The title should be “Porsche is smart, they recognize that electric vehicles are not as environmentally sound as we have been lead to believe, also that they can not replace existing vehicles fast enough, what is really needed is a drop in fuel for existing cars”
It's a scam...
There is something to be said about car makers that still care about they old cars and create their new cars with longevity in mind.
Bout time synthetic fuel is being made, if it gets good enough it may be more efficient / climate friendly than electric battery cars.
No, it is ridiculous to think that synthetic fuels are zero emission just because they recirculate the existing carbon that is in the environment. Does not take a science degree to figure out that the global carbon pollutants that are removed from the air, will only to be concentrated in big cities. Who wants that?
No, it won't.
It won't, because it will need to be transported all over the place to where it gets used. Electricity needs no transportation....
@@Brian-om2hh and what about the amount of resources needed to mine the lithium not to mention the transportation to the factories in foreign countries to make / assemble the batteries before there transported to a car manufacturer factory.
Porsche thank you so much from the bottom of my heart
the efficiency is just ridiculous to me. that e-fuels don't make sense for cars purely from an efficiency standpoint is a non argument. abundant energy will make this a non argument. shipping and aviation industry will need these kinds of fuels which in turn means that these industries will invest heavily into the infrastructure needed to make e-fuels. when these industries are up and running at full speed, the transport sector can use this to support their own net-zero path. sure EV's are more energy efficient when using them but there is still a large part of the population that actually likes ICE or even needs them because there is no grid to go full electric at this moment.
Why is there no discussion on the carbon impact of mining elements to create batteries? These policies are so short sighted…
They’re the wise ones. They got my attention!
and once you burn those fuels you get co2 again plus the energy used to create them. Makes 0 sence to use this kind of solution its insane
It is carbon neutral because they are only putting back into the atmosphere what they took out. It does rely on cheap energy to work hence why they are looking at countries like Chile.
You can't put an E at the front of fuel and pretend its a different product. It doesn't matter if you use carbon capture if you're still making gasoline that is still putting exhaust in areas people live. Electricity is going to win!
As a black man who lived in Germany, I like to say...
Vielen Dank, Deutschland. Ich liebe dich
Thank you Porsche for keeping the combustion engine alive
9 months on , and this isn't aging well. Biofuels are far from Carbon Neutral, even if you pretend that using renewable energy on them instead of charging BEVs with that electricity somehow makes sense. (It doesn't)
It's just another pitiful attempt to put off the inevitable. Porsche's first EV has been an expensive white elephant, with horrific depreciation because nobody wants it. RIP Porsche if they carry on like this with their head in the sand.
Cool story 😂.
I really hope something like this is the future. Between the mining for RARE earth materials, the wait of charging, and the lack of infrastructure in the aging electrical grid in this country, I don't know how anyone could think going electric is a great idea.
The global supply of rare earth minerals is controlled by even fewer countries than oil. The absolute majority of them currently in China (!) It's a bit strange that this is not seen as a *huge* problem with electrification.
Apparently, that is a problem we will have to deal with later....
That's because you are thinking about the actual problem. If instead you just listened to the shallow one liners, then everything would be great.
@@Jonteponte71 There are deposits of lithium in China, Russia, Scandinavia, Australia, the US, Canada, Chile, Mexico, Bolivia, the Congo, and Cornwall in the UK. The US alone has around 10 massive lithium prospects ongoing, including a 115'000 acre site in Arkansas. Around 35% of the World's lithium is mined in Australia...... Don't associate the word RARE as meaning scarce, because when applied to minerals it means something totally different. It is estimated there is enough lithium to allow the manufacture of EV battery packs for the next 30+ years, by which time the battery recycling industry will have grown hugely. Even today, older EV batteries can be 95% recycled, with the lithium and cobalt being 90% recovered to be reused in new batteries. Is anyone recycling burned petrol, diesel or e fuels?
@@Brian-om2hh Nothing but lies have been told, yes fuels have been recycled for decades, and no ev battery packs are no where near as recyclable as you believe, the chemical structure of a battery once broken into cant be recovered, do you know the chemical structuring that goes into the battery, yeah you dont. currently all mines are exclusively owned by china and were never gonna use our resources why? because ev manufacturers rather use poor african countries to make a profit, otherwise evs would only be for the ultra rich, learn the truth. why do you think we resort to africa for mines if we supposedly have lithium everywhere??? think buddy think, lithium and cobalt mining is nowhere near climate friendly like you believe
If consumer vehicle emissions only account for 15% of global carbon footprint, the efuels aren’t the problem nor the solution.
I don‘t care how much the liter costs. As long as I can keep my classic running, I am happy. Thanks for keep on fighting Porsche❤
Hey look everyone, a rich person that only cares about themselves!
@@m4rvinmartian That’s a indescribable passion. If you take your time, restore your carburators and the car runns like new, despite beeing 60 years old, then take a cruise and people come to talk, take pictures and share their storys when their family had cars like this.. To me that’s worth it, even the e-fuel costs.
They aren't doing it for you.......
That rep from the ICCT who says at 12:50 that "there's no way consumers will choose" e-fuels because they're expensive obviously has zero interest in cars as anything more than an appliance. There are plenty of car enthusiasts that will pay premium prices for a fuel that will keep their beloved ICE cars viable into the future. I for one would gladly pay that mentioned 10 dollars a gallon for e-fuel to keep my Nissan GT-Rs viable as weekend toys while continuing to daily drive my EV. I'm sure many gearheads would feel the same way.
Besides, she's also missing the point that investments into automotive e-fuel also will likely benefit other transport sectors. Long-haul trucking, maritime freight, and especially long-distance air travel as mentioned in the video are still probably decades away from largely decarbonizing without e-fuels. With car companies pouring money into developing e-fuels that can only help accelerate their possible use in other transport sectors as well. Car manufacturers are the transport sector feeling the most pressure to reduce their carbon footprint so if they don't take the lead in e-fuel development and it's left up to less regulated industries to do it we'll just be further off from the overall goal of significant overall decarbonization.
In the UK i'm paying a lot of that $10 already to keep my lovely Jaaaag on the road!
@@stevemawer848 I know here in the States we're lucky not to pay that much for gas but I know petrolheads over here find so many other things to blow money on that $10 a gallon gas versus not being able to drive their babies would be an easy sacrifice lol.
If this requires hydrogen, this could help a transition to fuel cells for heavy transports
As for my personal transport the freedom from a pump has been great so I see EVs as the future of personal transport. Refuel seemed to be the solution looking for a problem as the cost even at $7 a gallon is way too high.
$100 million actually is quite a tiny investment for a car company.
E-fuels should be used for planes and not for cars until there is enough supply. Planes can't be electric so far because of the weight of the batteries.
In freezing weather, 40% of the charge is lost to keeping the battery from freezing at night. If it remains cold, the rest is lost the next day while E-Fuels do not evaporate. Hence, the choice between EV and E-Fuel is not so easy, it depends upon the circumstances. E-Fuel is definitely better in a cold environment.
You got your numbers wrong there chief. 40% loss is driving an old gen 1 Tesla Model S with the heat on full blast. Modern EVs use heat pumps so you're looking at a 20%-25% range reduction in cold weather now.
Sitting in sub-zero temperatures the battery management system uses 5%-10% per day to maintain the pack. Fortunately people with EVs charge at home, so its plugged in and that loss doesn't matter. I'll take my $0.60 per gallon equivalent electricity even if I do lose a few cents a day for two weeks in the winter.
That’s what some tried to do also with horse and carriage when the ICE came around. We all know what happened. There’s NO ICE vehicle that can compete with an EV performance wise and the fun factor to drive it. A Tesla plaid is much more performant than any Porsche ICE will ever be and the new roadster will be mind blowing. Porsche is trying to hold on to something desperately because they don’t have the know how of mass producing a compelling EV. It’s over for Flinstone ICE technology!😂 For those who really want the engine noise, well they can mimic it in the car cabine without disturbing others outside. They could even mimic the exhaust in the car cabin for the real fans so those outside won’t get cancer. And Toyota, an other brand late to the party, even comes up with fake gears for EVs, how thoughtful.