Slavoj Žižek & Yuval Noah Harari | Should We Trust Nature More than Ourselves?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 เม.ย. 2024
- Are we above nature? How can we combat extremism? How do extreme ideologies often become their opposite?
In a lively discussion between Slavoj Žižek and Yuval Noah Harari, the two thinkers debate extremist ideology, our role in nature, the notions of good and evil, and catastrophes of the past. The conversation is moderated by Günes Taylor, and was filmed on June 2, 2022 as part of the HowTheLightGetsIn Festival.
Timestamps
00:00:00 Intro
00:02:15 Humans or Nature: Who Should We Put Our Trust In?
00:03:10 You Can Never Violate the Laws of Nature
00:05:23 We Associate Nature with a Pattern that Humans Interrupt
00:10:26 At Least in Some Catastrophe We Can Find Meaning
00:12:08 The Worn-Out Nature Debate Against Homosexuality
00:14:03 ‘Good’ is Often a Misconstrued Concept
00:14:04 Even Buddhism Can be Used to Justify Death
00:18:53 Should We Think of Earth as a Resource?
0020:40 If Something is Good an Extreme Version Must be Better
00:24:53 The Loophole in Deep Ecologist Thinking
00:28:29 Hegel: How Extreme Intentions Contradict Themselves
00:29:40 Is the Idea of Moderation Built into Nature & the Ecosystem?
00:30:40 Equilibrium in Nature
00:33:00 Stalin: The Social Engineer
00:34:14 How Many Scientists Aren’t Seeing the Full Picture
00:42:25 What is Freedom?
00:42:29 How Far Can We Upgrade Until We Downgrade?
00:45:42 A Stalinist Joke About Money
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Yuval Noah Harari is a historian, philosopher, and the bestselling author of ’Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind’ (2014), ’Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow’ (2016), ’21 Lessons for the 21st Century’ (2018), and the series ’Sapiens: A Graphic History’ (launched in 2020, co-authored with David Vandermeulen and Daniel Casanave). - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
This lady is like someone out of Star Wars.
Or Hunger Games
is very nice
Like a Rose. Beauty surrounded by pricks XD
And Slovoj is a looney toon character
She cutest scientist
Slavoj is so chaotic, I love it. Truly refreshing to have him in television.
he is actually not, he is just jumping around a picture so big that its hard to grasp that its always the same one.
@@Specialforce848 It demands your attention, in comparison to other talkers!
@@Specialforce848 th-cam.com/video/IE5tOid4E10/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUOY2xhc2ggb2YgbWluZHM%3D
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a little bit of poison in something delicious is easy to swallow but the end there of is death.
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it's good to see Slavoj is in a good shape. God bless to both of them.
if thats good shape then i cant begin to imagine the bad shape
Mentally he's beyond repair if he's hanging out with these Edomite scum. 😌😎
@@eranjin lmaoo it's all relative but I know what u mean 😅
He's looked way worse is what she means
@@gregorywilkinson5731 Yeah. His face is symmetrical again.
a little bit of poison in something delicious is easy to swallow but the end there of is death.
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It's difficult to follow Zizek thoughts but when you get it, wow!
It's also difficult to follow his speech.
@@johnbanach3875 couldnt agree more🤣
The explanation for that is that you have limitations in understanding philosophy.
@@frederickwalzer5555 dont be so quick to judge him negatively
@@johnbanach3875 i dont seem to fit well in a psychiatric disorder
Wow - how often have I‘ve looked at my shelf and wondered: What if Harari and Žižek had a talk? Can‘t wait to listen to this!
Hope you weren't as disappointed as I was.
@@TheDionysianFields well all I can say is: this won‘t be something I‘ll come back to so soon
@@BringYouDaPain Glad to know I'm not the only one. I don't know what video everyone else here watched.
@@TheDionysianFields How anyone sane minded can disappointed by this
@@Gingnose Because it's a disaster of bad ideas and wrongheadedness. Human beings have been at war with nature since day 1, and these guys are going to tell us that everything is nature/natural. Disgusting.
She was the perfect host for this. I don't think many hosts out there could have handled these two so well.
@Tyler Donaldson
"... could have handled these two so well."
Well, well, well... Not that I necessarily disagree with such a statement. BUT ... as a standalone statement it rather shows THE DEEP HOLE humanity has dug for itself.
Why? If a conversation of outwardly reasonable adults needs a special gifted person to moderate a conversation HUMANITY IS IN DEEP SH*T.
NOT CLAIMING THAT IT WAS EVER DIFFERENT BUT LOOKING AT THE WORLD FROM "AFAR" and seeing that "everyone", especially Mr. H & Ž, is claiming to be so reasonable, educated and even enlightened one has to REALLY QUESTION THE SANITY OF THE MAJORITY OF HUMANITY.
If it wasn't for THE WISDOM OF PAST one would really have to question the point of it all. Which I am not doing BTW!
IT MAKES ALL SENSE BUT ONLY FROM A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE NOT DISCUSSED BY "THE PROUD HUMAN MINDS" USUALLY ON DISPLAY IN THE MEDIA.
@@ACuriousChild couldn't agree more.. the once simple inconvenient truths of life are now fabled taboo; an absurd masquerade
@@tylerdonaldson2804
So true!
Despite the horror-show all around THE TRUTH is always going to find a way no matter the "costs" and "time" it will take.
Slavuj from my country is just part of world agenda promote vacine big pharma mafia so far from socrat Buda and natural live real real far just fake false wrong percepcion both of them so abnormal black magic not for consume forget abut them and have clean mind trust nature trust natural medicine run from big pharma article like poison vacine and propaganda of transhumanisam wich is ame like satanisam
She was good, but a psycho with those facial expressions.
I conclude: you always have to take the middle ground, but not always because that would be extreme.
:D spot on :D
You can't have both either
The golden mean
I’m so glad they have these conversations. I tried reading Zizek and that’s a whole different deal.
Skill issue
Ah yes, I spent quite a while meticulously reading and trying to understand his first book in english, the sublime object of ideology. I'd say stick with it though, it's quite rewarding
a little bit of poison in something delicious is easy to swallow but the end there of is death.
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@@khana.713 lol! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Zizek asumes the reader has a Phd in philosophy when writing. To fully understand him you should have a basic understand of continental philosophy and psychoanalisis. Its not a good way of writing, Its better to see his talks about philosophy.
What Žižek was saying at around minute 29 totally agrees with the many ideas that math of non-linear and chaotic systems tells us, what we expect from a point on a new balance big unbalance can occur
Very well put at the end by Slavoj Zizek. There will be a few people who control most of the people. And this all in the name of good intentions. Here we go again...
And both want to "guide" this process. What a coincidence.
"Anything that is possible is by definition also natural" - Very interesting statement from Harari!
True. Really helps u rise above the “suffering” :)
@@abmas1901 it’s elementary. It’s also merely semantics. Of course I agree, that everything is nature including us and our works. On the other hand though, that is only true V according to one definition of nature, and when we present this topper of semantics argument, it is actually infantile to not acknowledge the simple fact that words have multiple definitions and that this agreement Olly hold true by definition, and we are referring to a word with multiple definitions.
This whole “debate” is on its face intellectually bankrupt. I respect both of the participants, but this is not as debate, it’s presented in a highly misleading format, and there is clearly an agenda behind it, but that agenda is not opaque, despite its obviousness. Ultimately this all boils down to a complete loss of credibility. False dichotomies are bad enough, but here the false dichotomy is so shabbily contrived that it is embarrassing at best, and disturbingly tragic at worst.
@@multimason8237 well said
I totally disagree with this phrase. Killing people, stealing, raping children, hitting women, robering etc. - all this stuff is possible, however this have bad consequances for society and thus not natural for normal society rules.
@@alekdemj War, a subset of your list, is the most natural behaviour of man.
Slavoj and the favorite child of the DEVlL. Knowingly or unknowingly Slavoj has stepped and is walking on the dark side.
bruh wtf bro
Mhm. He should have done his research before accepting the invite. Shows too he is amoral & a globalist tool. 😌
Slavoj is a rockstar! Hoping to see him in a long conversation with Lex Fridman someday.
Lex Afraid Fridman
@@k4czy12 Less Afraid Fridman
I would love to see him in Joe Rogan Experience, that would be crazy.
@@prkp7248 same thing man! Plus slavoj has a ton of funny anecdotes and quotes, hopefully he will be at least in one of them. I am betting Lex will be first!
@@k4czy12 Why the middle name, what is he "Afraid" of and why is it worth drawing attention to?
Yuval and Zizek were of course great, but also kudos to the moderator, she did great. Excellent job to everyone involved in this conversation. Greetings from Monterrey, México.
Saludos desde Tijuana! Jeje
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Saludos de Torreón!
I love how no one talks about Captialism/monetary market system as the problem for what we witness today.
Who pays for those "fancy" talks?
@@MiauZi69 I have no idea.
Trivial in comparison to the problem of being alive in the first place
Thank you for sharing, always gets me thinking and revisiting my ideas 🙏
a little bit of poison in something delicious is easy to swallow but the end there of is death.
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Yuval’s is an approachable brilliance; Slavoj is a genius.
Romans 1:22 😌
@@davidbolha - Yes, nice bit of Pauline rhetoric, that.
I'm in love with the anchor/moderator!! She's fab! doesn't interrupt, let those speak, and interrupts meaningfully and had poise!!❤️❤️
Is so strange that I thought the opposite lol 😅
@@anav5010 yeah, she was pretty bad, interrupted at the wrong times
She is female Sheldon Cooper
@@mohameddellero and also in my opinion a little bit biased on only asking and interacting with zizek 🤔
@@anav5010 he was in front of her, the other guy on the screen behind her.
after watching this in one sit, i think i'm ready to declare myself as genious
The distinction between descriptive and prescriptive laws is a fundamental one, made well here. Suffering and concocted moral dilemmas are also nicely exposed for their potential weaknesses in moral reflection. Imagination and problem-solving through discourse remain important even after this particular conversation is appreciated.
Do you know that the PFC remembers sounds,
The PFC constantly plays sounds in your mind
You can make it stop, create a kind of silence, but the noise always comes back
You can't stop the PFC from making noise inside your mind
What's really interesting is that when you look at a physical tree
The PFC can remember two possibilities', one is the sound of language, naming it a tree and the worded definition of the tree
Or your PFC can remember how the tree sounds - no language
To clarify, the noise in your mind will no longer be words, it will be the sounds that tress make, that you have experienced, snapping twigs, rustling leaves, breaking bark, trunks breaking and falling
All words are gone and can be forever if you remember sound this way instead of remembering the noise of language
Now which one is more real,
The language or the actual noise a tree makes?
@@gratefulkm I don’t see a need necessarily to regard one as more real than the other (‘tree’ versus tree-noise). Both are real; both are. Aesthetically you might prefer the tree-sound, but both are real, and what operation (if any) and/or goals you have in mind in conjuring up a representation of either (because that’s all it would be in any case) could render one sort of representation more desirable than the other. If I wanted calm and nothing more, I might think of the tree-sound. If I was in the middle of constructing an argument that had trees as its subject, it might be useful to conjure up the word.
@@larryfike1858 Nice that you can describe your understanding of it verbally
My challenge is for you to experience it :)
Balance, instead of worshipping one form over another, Experience both,
Deconstruct the construction
You feel before you think
I can't stress how important it is to walk with both feet, breathe with both lungs, clap with two hands, look with 2 eyes, smell with two nostrils and experience with both upper and lower brains
To not pretend the Lower brain does not have equal worth
instead of worshipping your left Testical, shall we say
I just wanted to make sure you have been taught this
You seem hyper focused on thought, "Wrong end of the stick"
"can't see past the end of your nose"
"Letting your imagination run away with itself"
You know you have people and have regular Oxytocin release
@@gratefulkm I’m just speaking/writing in a philosophical vein here; I actually meditate for an hour a day and believe I understand what you are saying. As an *experience*, I can even watch/hear/taste, etc., the flow of thoughts (including sounds of all sorts) passing through consciousness, without identifying them with “me,” and thus accept the continuousness of thought (not necessarily propositional in nature, and not involving a run-on argument) as something occurring but which is not consciousness itself. Liberating, if anything is.
@@larryfike1858 Amygdala
There's a biiiig problem right from the outset here-we're driving an entirely ariticial distinction between people and nature. We are natural phenomena, the things we do are natural by definition. When we talk about good and bad, we are talking about good and bad in relation to a moral agent-someone who either does good or bad things, or observes them.
As philosophical naturalists, to the extent good and bad even exist, they only exist in and because of human minds. Nature is not good or bad, except insofar as we are beings with moral intuitions, and we interpret natural phenomena in a moral way. We are part of nature, and we give it a morality. That interpretation can be guided by an interpretation of the directionality of nature-what is it doing through the course of natural evolution?
Yes, it's true, bad things happen in nature. But whereas climates are prone to wild fluctuations, ecosystems tend to regulate and normalize them, creating shade, slowing water cycles, fixing landscapes in root networks, preserving nutrients by moving them upstream, and a myriad of other functions. The consequences of these tendencies are increased genetic diversity, a calmer and more livable climate, and, as our evolution demonstrates, a support structure for organisms with greater and greater levels of subjectivity and sophistication. When "bad" things happen in nature, they invariably happen in an attempt to move toward this state of affairs in the context of deprivation. These things are not good or bad in and of themselves-they're good or bad in our interpretation of them. But our interpretation of them is really just nature evaluating nature.
As humans we have the foresight and choice to do something before ”nature” corrects our route toward an equilibrium. We know what we are doing, we know we can do something, still nothing is beign done (because of the economic system we are in hold all the power)
TLDR; If we throw a nuclear bomb over a site and we destroy it, nature itself won’t give a damn about it because what happens is just a passage from a natural state A to natural state B
That comment is non-sensical. Think about it.
While at one level I agree, isn't it also interesting that 1) when we closely observe ourselves and our thinking process, we find that thoughts just arise (many spiritual traditions have pointed this out) and there is no one/homunculus behind the thoughts making or doing them. They arrive and we experience them, really just in the same way we experience feelings or anything else. This is relevant to me because it says something, imo, about this 'agent' idea. 2) If we are not in fact separate from nature, and we might even question this notion of a deliberate agent, then is it not true that nature is in fact the one with the moral attitude? (so to speak). Nature has physical laws, nature has reproduction, nature has natural selection, and seemingly too, nature has morals -- in the form of the human being. We are an evolutionary step of nature, in that sense.
@@r.g.j.leclaire8963 I think I agree with everything here. That's the idea-humans are a step in a developmental process nature is undergoing, and ethics are an emergent property from that. This isn't actually anything new-this is more or less how Aristotle thought about it.
Everything in moderation; argue from the center, Hegelian. Thank you Professor Yuval Harari and Slavoj Zizek for an Amazing thought provoking conversation.
Yes. I am assuming by moderation here you mean the ideal point of balance, which is different for each thing or idea (like a policy) and always changing relevant to places, people and times. Perhaps keeping up with that shifting point is really the grand challenge of all life in a way.. applies on purely biological level but also otherwise
If you think these two sophists represent anything about moderation in our time, you've been massively duped. Read Chantal Delsol instead, or read Solzhenitsyn's November 1916, esp. p. 59.
That has nothing to do with Hegel.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Thank you for the session.
We may need to realize our true nature to genuinely know what Nature is
They would both ask why we should know Nature, when we only should be able to manipulate it, either for hedonism (Zizek) or fear of the unknown (Harari). That's the essence.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Love you both! Well done!
Life goes on - and so on, and so on ❤️
Not necessarily. Alter the conditions too much and you could with a lifeless planet.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Simply fascinating! You learn so much with these debates.... very good!
“...Nature, red in tooth and claw...” - Great exchange with S.J., Professor Harari. Greetings from Greece!
Only Yuri to presume that we are not nature. He may be an alien or a robot, but I trust myself as much as I trust nature.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Balance will be the focus of all extremes. Balance of humans and nature is the question. Balance of putting others down, helping others, and helping ourselves...when we give this Balance to help those on the fringe of our life circles...we will be doing good.
Yes. But resources are limited. As long as you have a surplus, you can spend it to feel like benefactors, kind and good humanists. But when the surplus runs out, it's time to choose who will get what is now missing for everyone. Usually, as a result, the stronger, more arrogant, cunning gets resources. The rest will fight for crumbs and die. Economic crisis, energy crisis, natural or man-made disaster, war - it's a time of choice.
Resources are limited how?
@@guru_stu Do you know what the economic crisis, unemployment, inflation is? Do you have an unlimited amount of gas, electricity for everyone and there is no price increase for them? Crop failure? Have you ever been hungry like the people of Bangladesh and Africa, where thousands die of hunger in some years? Have you not lived on a cup of rice a day like the people of Vietnam? Do you know about the population decline in Detroit and other industrial cities of the "Rust Belt" of the USA? Do you know about the extinction of small villages around the world in rich countries - from Japan and Korea to Europe and the USA? Do you know about the decline in the birth rate in all developed countries? All this is a problem of countries' resources (human, economic, natural, industrial, financial, technological). Not all countries live happily, most countries on Earth do not have enough resources for a happy life.
Zizek somehow manages to evoke both depression and anxiety in me simultaneously. And I have no idea what point is he making around 90% of the time.
Spot-on way to describe the Žižek experience, yet I keep coming back for more (and so on)...
It’s good to observe and understand the natural functioning of things in the world around us so we can better play ourselves. Nature is everything real. The world isn’t merely your idea of it or what you wish it was. Studying the nature of things is an exercise in humility that ultimately brings us up. We don’t see clearly enough because we’re too comfortable taking secondhand information. We agree with the people we like and it eventually distorts our outlook. Naturalism is a good influence on any culture.
Think deeply, what are our real interests as humans regarding the outside, nature, universe and so on, and second question who is "our"
Play ourselves?
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
but nature IS filtered through our subjective ideological lens, that's what slavoj is getting at
Yuval's approach is to justify what so called state of israel is doing in palestine, the suffering? It's bad for some and good for others.
This debate needs subtitles in all languages possible. The contents are amazing!
amazing bullshit
dont worry, if you are honest with yourself, they all say a bunch of nothing really
Why this buffoon and all his mumble jumbo attracts so many "intellectuals"? Yes the "content" is "amazing" the person talking about it its the problem, and every one idolizing that lacanian marxist psedo academy
@@residentfelon Let others find the truths by themselves, so that differently to this 2, at least you are honest and give respect to others. Or is it that you just can see what others cant give but no what you can?
@@sea2959 we all know deep down, life is absurd according to Camus
We don’t understand nature, we don’t understand ourselves, amen 🙏
About as useful as pointing out “the sky is blue!”
@@slofty I think many people (myself included) can delude themselves that they understand why things happen the way they do and make assumptions on that basis about the future when, in fact, we understand far less about the causes of events and best responses. Realising this may enable us to be more cautious, tentative, and open to making changes as situations emerges unpredictably
I love Zizeks way,he is human, also in addition he´s amazing thinker !!! Harari represents to me Inhumanity. He considers himself as the great Savior of humanity by enslaving people.....
Humanity is nature,nature is humanity.
Aside from the two greats, I loved the debate moderator. She was very informative and actively engaged the audience.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
I like the way she roasts Žižek in the beginning
El encuentro más esperado por toda Latinoamérica unida 🥹
Solo si toda latinoamerica es tú y otros cuantos desvelados 🤭🤭
I find it endearing that Slavoj still has a really strong accent even after 40 years of working in the USA and Europe
Slovenia is in Europe... Also he has also done a lot of work in French and German
Also, english is not "The" European language
"Nature doesn't care about us in particular..." Mastermind-level opening right there.
I'm very impressed.
...
I can see Yuval's moderation point of view and his call for rejecting the binary frame as being influenced by Buddha's middle way teaching that transcends extremisms (good vs bad). As per human nature, we always want more of a good thing. Extremism is when too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
The second influence of Buddhism was Yuval's point rejecting good vs bad as ethical criteria and his definition of unethical actions being those that cause suffering.
Its not.There can be similarity between thoughts of two different persons.
@@Nothing-yo5uo "On a drive with Yahav and Harari from their home to Jerusalem, I asked if it was fair to think of “Sapiens” as an attempt to transmit Buddhist principles, not just through its references to meditation-and to the possibility of finding serenity in self-knowledge-but through its narrative shape. The story of “Sapiens” echoes the Buddha’s “basic realities”: constant change; no enduring essence; the inevitability of suffering.
“Yes, to some extent,” Harari said. “It’s definitely not a conscious project. It’s not ‘O.K.! Now I believe in these three principles, and now I need to convince the world, but I can’t state it directly, because this would be a missionary thing.’ ” Rather, he said, the experience of meditation “imbues your entire thinking.”
www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/02/17/yuval-noah-harari-gives-the-really-big-picture
Very tru sadly we only no its a bad thing when its way to late to stop it.
But we don't even know where extremism lies, because we view the world through our subjective lens. What Americans consider far left, is centrist at best in Europe. And no - moderation is not always the answer. It was good that world banded together to bomb, decimate and afterwards hang the Nazis. Unimaginable suffering was prevented because Hitler's Regime was stopped by brute force. Extreme action was necessary to stop extreme suffering. Moderation is not safe. Moderation might not even exist.
@@somedudeok1451 If u dont no where extremism lies then why do u say that Hitlers actions were extreme and that we needed to all band together to take extreme action to avoid extreme suffering?
I respect the intellect of both of these adult males.
This whole exhibition was a dance around the evils perpetrated by the forces that Yuval is a part of.
It was an expert dance.
nobody expected the spanish inquisition, mate. thanks for poppin' by!
what evil-doing forces is yuval a part of?
honest question.
@@robokugel3383 he runs a drug cartel
@@robokugel3383 he is the top advisor of klaus schwabs creator and president of the world economic forum
He’s no friend of humanity put it that way. He states that we have no soul or free will and that humans can be re-engineered with the power to become god. Reminds me of another period in history…
Zizek is the vastly greater thinker. People enjoy him but find it hard to pin him down, but that is his method. He does not want to give us truth in the classical sense but rather cause a kind of psychoanalysis were we get strategies for thinking about ourselves and our world. He is more concerned with methods than facts.
Balance, modesty, moderation …
nature of nature versus nature of humanity
…. Reminds me Of a song heard during my youth
Never ending story~~~~~😇
I liked the initial part by Harari on nature's way and human way - or I call, two universes, in which mind universe has limitation. Next, his discussion on the middle way ~20min. Then, him on silo syndrome - or local optimization vs more global one - around 36min. (that is like egocentric idea as oppose to to get to wisdom) Toward the end, again Harari, related to complexity theory - or Kegon/Avatamsaka sutra.
?????
The world is a stage and everyone is playing their part
..and we all are merely players
..performers and portrayers
..each another's audience
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable) 👉 The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Plus we can't be sure whether there's a stage or not according to quantum physics.
Fantastic! I'm a fan of both of yours so it's great to listen to the two of you talk.
Dear yuval I think we are like a variable in an equation . Before we get sapiens nature was full of constants and results were stables but now it's going difficultly predictible. Even feelings are politics of nature I don't like beeing a slave payed by good feelings or punished by bads. Intelligence without feelings seems to me liberty. With good feelings 💖
I absolutely love this so far. What a wonderful philosophical exchange!
not really
at which section of this flickering debate gets any philosopical gasoline...?i seem to have missed it....:(
@@Interwurlitzer I'm just happy this stuff is being talked about and people are hearing it.
@@philosphorus fair enough , mate
@@briandavis849 for you not for everybody humans are complex and see the world differently
Mind blowing. So damn good
not at all
"be weary of those who preach too much good" amazing, sums up the current left alright
Trust is for obedient minds.
Return kindness for kindness, and, return kindness for evil.
Do not do to others what you don't want done to yourself.
The allocation of "good" and "bad" is purely human. And usually aimed at humans; we don't walk through a forest and judge the trees, but most of us walk through a crowd and make snap judgments about every person we become aware of.
Sure. But does that make them relative? Cities don't exist without people, but does that mean it is completely arbitrary whether it is good to live in one?
but we do walk through forests and judge the trees. a forest can feel safe/scary/intimidating/beautiful. everything we do and know is a reflected self reference
When I steal your life... is it a good or a bad thing? If I manipulate you to do "bad" things... is it good or bad? Of course it is purely human because humans are having a dark and a light side. It's called dualism. If you transcend the dark side you're enlightend.
how do lions choose who gets eaten? Aren't some meals better than others? Nature has no preferences?
@@reprogrammingmind i believe preference is natural/part of nature but only arises in certain conditions - like yes the lion may prefer one meat to the other but ultimately they’ll eat what’s available
YUVAL NOAH HARARI, TODOS TU ESCRITOS , Y TODOS TUS LIBROS ME SUMERGIERON EN " LA REVOLUCIÓN DE LA IGNORANCIA".
The moderator did a great job, totally up to the challenge. Yuval and Zizek smart, provoking, and funny as usual.
Thank you Gunes. Thanks Yuval and Slavoj. Very interesting ideas.
Όντως, ενδιαφέρουσα συζήτηση.
I wonder if we will always have this problem-that our knowledge of the consequences of using some technology is lacking and causes us some worrying existential disaster in the near future after invention of said technology. You'd have to have a very particular and deliberate culture to ensure that just the reverse happens.
The joke from Žižek at the end is my favorite! Greetings from Ukraine :)
That was fascinating. Quite a shame it was so short 🙂
That was a great talk, thanks for sharing this
Zizek acrescenta bom humor a seu vasto conhecimento acadêmico. Gosto disso.
Hegel diz mesmo que as pessoas dão valor ao que não tem. Se tivesse alguma qualidade provavelmente bocejaria com esse teatro todo. Entediante.
@@zerotwo7319 pode citar a referência por favor, estou realmente curioso por saber mais.
@@AxelRios Bem, vc acabou de demonstrar pessoalmente. Acho que não tem nada mais hegeliano do que isso, demonstrar com ação.
Pachamama, dai-me forças...
@@LecyPereiraSousa amigos imaginários não vão te ajudar.
This is a great match because both these guys have made me think in a way that I've never considered before and really opened my eyes. Really original thinkers. I also love Zizek for bringing to North American audiences academic terms that never survive the marketing filters of North American media: "deep ecologists." Bahaha
a little bit of poison in something delicious is easy to swallow but the end there of is death.
th-cam.com/video/IE5tOid4E10/w-d-xo.html&pp=ygUOY2xhc2ggb2YgbWluZHM%3D
th-cam.com/video/0fp29AfCuME/w-d-xo.html
Beautiful reflexion
Nos merecemos este debate subtitulado 😭
No estás perdiendo nada.
I’ve been waiting for these two to meet. A thoughtful exchange between rigorous intellectuals
Same here! In my opinion, those two are the smartest people alive today. Leaving them in charge of management would do wonders!
we meet again lol
Everyone is an "intellectual"
As a 3rd one, Jordan Peterson would be fun. More knives maybe pulled 😏
@@burakeyi Peterson already embarrassed himself against Zizek.
Thank you both Slavoj and Yuval, and of course your host, great discussion.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
excellent interviewer btw, I like that she keeps up with them, which must be super hard cause Zizek really is all over the place all the time.
Yes , she had an extreeeemly good question which certainly wasn't answered by our beloved alpha males :
"Is moderation build into nature ?"
(The way I read it : this sustainability idea)
Or as dad always said : when you eat your whole 🍫 at once, tonite you'll be crying over it ;)
Halfway through, fascinating conversation, especially ideas from Zizek!
Nature is a wonderful instructor but there are a very few who realizes when we get in touch with nature we discover ourselves
Great comment. We are it and it is us.
Exactly are you William from Westworld?
Yes, excellent point. I think that is the one lesson that Indigenous people from around the world have been trying to get across to mainstream society for yonks to little avail. The most troubling thing in my mind is that now over half the world's population lives in cities, and therefore difficult to access "nature", though I think there's also a lot of potential for inviting nature back into urban areas.
I tend to agree, in opposite to Zizek and Harari. Nature has no worth for them. Harari only preaches caution insofar as we can not control everything. If we could, he would "change" most of it. Zizek the hedonist too.
I think our mind is the middle man in how we see ourselves as a part of nature (or not) and I think that is what they say. We are nature and at the same time our mind learns how to interpret nature and it's workings often as separate systems. That is our big pro and big con as a species and depending on many things, but mainly our culture and history we will learn to relate to nature differently. Yes it can be an instructor, but only when we have learned how to learn from nature. Look at many animals, they need guidance for a while when they are born. To help find food, hunt, use basic tools, how the seasons move and what that means for their environment. So it's not an instructor by itself. It is nature doing nature. Like we are also in a way. Just depends on how you zoom your lens in our out..
Leave a baby alone and it will die. Leave an older child alone with no previous knowledge and experience about how to live with and/or from nature and it will probably also die.
I love how zizek keeps coming back to the class angle in all of this and even ends on this joke about class
Next to yuval, slavoj appeared so unhinged x)
Love them both, and the moderator really did a great job ! It was so refreshing compared to typical, boring academic moderation
Hope more debates like this one are coming our way ❤️
Slavojs insanity scratches my brain though
Hearing somebody say 'ethics is really only about suffering' is like listening to music produced for the mainstream, that speaks to the cultural moment with the aim to win it over, while therefore consciously and unconsciously comprimising to culture
Listening to zizek is like listeneng to Clowncore's album 'van'. Obscene and harsh and incomprehensible and for all of those reasons its alluringly beautiful
Fantastic mediation. More please
The truth is that some religions focus on the essential: family, society, self understanding in the larger context of Gd and good intentions, interest in the world around you and working to keep you alive and active. This is all we need
The religion comes as a package, you don't choose as you want. The way I view it is that the danger of religion lies in the holy aspect of it's laws, when the laws are no longer valid due to time and many changes they hinder the growth of societies due to the belief of the source of those laws being god, which is a thing bigger than nature and human combined.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Perfect way to transfer knowledge and jokes ..yuvals idea of moderation and that stalin genius solution🤣 I will keep both by heart
I don't understand the how an electric system is made and works, lets just put your fingers in the socket to find out. That what he said. it's insane and very dangerous mentality.
To what you know its crazy and dangerous but to what one knows it's just the only thing we gat ..in other words electricity in socket is "curiousity" that's why people and animals die when testing vaccines to save others .. hope I kept to track
@@derrickgriffines9050 No one has to die to save others, no amount of scarifying children and adults can save irresponsible people. This is false heroism. Vaccine didn't save anyone ever, The cause of most health problem is approved toxic food, overdose of chemicals, including vaccines and medical drugs, mental stress, psychological terror, bad working and living conditions. You can inject unto yourself anything you wish but leave others alone. Some of us prefer sane approach, effective and true. Sorry to leave your drug business empty.
"We are slowly but surely destroying health and intelligence of our future generations with vaccination" ... Dr Gerhard Buchwald, Germany
Cancer was practically unknown until cowpox vaccination began to be introduced (in 1853) I have had to do with at least 200 cases of cancer, and I never saw a chance in an unvaccinated person.
Dr. W.B. Clarke, Indianpolice, New York Press January 26, 1909
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
@@derrickgriffines9050 The permissive value system that would have us 'admire' an intellectual debate like this is like admiring the wallpaper in Goebel's home office. It's important to realize the peril we are in when people have become accepting of eugenics, population 'control' and other totalitarian nightmares when these are dressed up as 'thought experiments' by 'branded' intellectuals promoted in the paid media mainstream .
I love they way she laughts❤️🙂
amazing as always
Is there an uncut version?
It's years since I wandered how Yuval would react to Žižeks idea of nirvana murderer (1) and morality causing horrible acts (2).
The (2) is answered here 20:05
Yeah I’ll love to watch and hear an uncut version, there is meaning in silence and laughs that I really don’t want to miss
It's butchered in many places I think. If anyone have managed to find the full one plz share.
I would also love to see full version... Kinda weird there is no explanation that this is not full, how much was cut, not good
ok, hilarious that these two set up a discussion / my brain is so satisfiedd
Mine is not so Yuval Noah Hararia - I have a question for you, cos you are clearly a gay man, so if you and your bf were the first people on the Earth, how would you reproduce ? How long would it take for 2 first man to do so?..someone educate me pls perhaps on this natural process?
When we get closer to fully accept our chaos, irrational world of emotions specifically, we will have as little deviations as possible (minimum conditioning) in constructing respresentation of truth within us (synced nervous system / integrated psyche ). This will bring us closer to nature and inevitably we will more responsible
thank you 🤝
I am Russian, 51y.o. and I want a debate with these two.
i love Zizek. hes so insightful
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Help, ive fallen in love with the moderator
Respect the nature and nature will respect you
Günes Taylor did a fantastic job as the interviewer! Thanks for the fascinating conversation 😁
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
Parasites are part of nature, and many have the most amazing and mind-boggling life cycles. Humans tend to divide the world into good and bad and they can think that parasites are bad, however, they are part of the ecosystem, they have evolved as part of the biodiversity.
Interesting point of view. Technically parasites are organisms living in a specific environment, giving some good and bad, depends how well both organisms adapt, they start to live in symbiosis. It is also parasites task, not to kill the host, unless being suicidal.
"complete genome sequences of cyanobacteria and of the higher plant Arabidopsis thaliana leave no doubt that the plant chloroplast originated, through endosymbiosis, from a cyanobacterium."
@@StaP876 I first discovered parasites as a child who kept caterpillars. Sometimes I wasn't rewarded with a beautiful butterfly or moth but with a spindly ichneumon wasp. I concluded they had as much right to be here so I used to release them. They may not appeal to human ideas of beauty and what is 'good' but parasites have incredible life-cycles. Here is the late Miriam Rothschild talking about a parasite of frogs that she regarded as one of her Seven Wonders of the World in this video: th-cam.com/video/hRYcQmY5aTs/w-d-xo.html
We are gods of ourselves and it is our nature to try to eradicate un-beneficial creatures within us.
I know quit a few parasites
Cancer is/are parasites such as worms, syphilis and candida.
Oustanding style of Yuval N Harari is once again on the fore. Such a clarity in thoughts makes his audience enriched and enabled after the session. Thank You Y N Harari.
It boils down to our awareness of death, so we try to avoid nature's law of succession and renewal of life.
The problem is to privilege our life before transmitting it. We owe our life both to those who transmitted it and to those who died of disease and increased our immunity!
One more thing, Mr Z: "Buddhism" seems to have supplied you with off the cuff anecdotes/solutions. However, an investigation of the buddha dhamma may actually bring you onto the more properly philosophical terrain of problems
Yuval, you said the question should not be whether something is natural or not, because all is nature; but rather that the question should be: does it cause suffering? I agree that suffering is the most important factor to be taken into consideration in this reality, especially the imposition of suffering on others who cannot consent to it when there is no need to impose the suffering or risk of suffering on them in the first place.... Given your outlook re. suffering, would you please care to elaborate on your views re. Antinatalism i.e. the view that it is always morally wrong to create life primarily because of the suffering such an imposition would cause for the person born. Thank you.
I was pleasantly surprised to see you commented on this
Great question. I also wondet about it. Is it true that not being born is a better option even under the nest circimstances? Sounds too simplistic of an argument.
Watch on youtube to learn the truth (and share if you find it valuable): The Connections (2021) [Short documentary] 🔥
It wouldn't be morally wrong to create life. In order for a person to consent it needs consciousness, and that is assuming the person has free-will (which we already don't) so creating life would neither be moral or immoral.
Love it
I sincerely do not care about what Yuval thinks. More Slavoj.
I think these two people don't want to infer that, if "Nature" exists, there must be a Creator, and only a Creator knows what is the right use or the wrong use of his creation.
They debate as if they themselves were able to decide what is good or bad, whereas they are simply part of "Nature", in other words of "Creation".
You pressupose his existence, but there isn't evidence of it. It is not theology.
@Fidel Angel
According to the scientific principle of causality, any observed phenomenon has a primary cause at its origin.
The primordial observed phenomenon is the phenomenon "existence of the Universe".
This phenomenon is primordial because without it, no other phenomenon would exist.
Therefore, the existence of the Universe necessarily implies the existence of a primary cause at its origin.
@@pimagema2620 Spot on 🎯
@@pimagema2620 Every person, who has ever experienced the grace - to experience God's presence - knows, that in this holy presence - when connected with a dying person - he sinks to his knees and remains silent - or - if no dying person is present - man is no longer able, to move arms and legs, open his mouth or twitch an eyelash. Furthermore: people, for whom God's hand saved their lives in World War I & II, in turn, know what has just happened through divine intervention and will keep it as an anchor throughout their lives. People whose terrible hunger had been satisfied by an act of God, and people whose loved ones had been saved from death by the grace of God know, that no man will ever be able to be God.
@@hildejutta1625
Thanks.
When I am in the presence of an inert object or a living being in the Universe, I feel in the presence of God their Creator.
To love and admire creatures is to love and admire their Creator.
There’s always something exceptional, in our nature’s, which doesn’t effected us in general, and those exceptions are private and personal , and it’s not a fault of the nature’s!
Amazing
Can we please have them discuss love as well as getting a large portion of humans on the same agenda of compassionately caring moderately in hopes of managing survival of our species beyond natural disasters
Being a huge fan of Sadghuru, looking at this conversation I kept wandering what he have would said to these themes.
Sadghuru is the man who says that the female period is the exact same length as the moon cycle. No, it is not. The female cycle is 28 days, the moon cycle is 29,5 days. That is 18 days in a year. Forget him!
@@jannloch yeah, there are far more mean leaders in the world, better take benefit from all the beauty and wisdom he brings with so much passion.. After all he's a man 😂
Sadhghuru ? Whenever i hear word guru , you already know it is not going to be good.
Jaggi Vasudev, Sadguru, mostly regurgitates Rajneesh’s thoughts. He is a blatant narcissist.
That fraud?
I love and truly admire Yuval💚✨
Everyone does ,also he will top every competetive exam for sure,guy is an encyclopedia ,but cant agree with his conlusion[maybe needs to work on discrete logic a little]
something is wrong with you then.
WE HUMANS ARE VERY GOOD AT DESTROYING THAN AT BUILDING🙏✝️
"Nothing is neither good nor bad but thinking makes it so."
Hahahaha. That is so wrong. It's hard to even comprehend how someone can come up with such nonsense.
@@MiauZi69explain to me??