Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks Retrospective
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 เม.ย. 2019
- Looking at two imperfect and divisive Zelda games to see what we can glean off of what they did right and wrong.
Patreon: / kingdomklannad
Twitter: / kingklonoa
Twitch: / thekingklonoa
Last Life: last-life.net/
My Script:
docs.google.com/document/d/1H...
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Sources:
Phantom Hourglass map: gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ds/9323...
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#PhantomHourglass #SpiritTracks #Zelda
Retrospective Zelda Phantom Hourglass Spirit Tracks - เกม
I wanted to put a note here: I still like the Wind Waker. There are many things I say about it on this channel that are negative, but that's really only relative. There aren't any Zelda games I outright dislike and I wanted to make that clear. Everything I say in these videos is in relation to other Zelda games, which is why I'm harsher on some than others. At the end of the day, I love this series enough to make videos on them all, so keep that in mind.
Putting spoilers for Breath of the Wild on this video was unnecessary... thanks man...
So you like Phillips CD-i Zelda games? 😃😃😃
Not even Wand of Gamelon?
@@absantos isn't botw like 2years old now?
Yes it is, but it's a really long game, which I don't have much time to play. Also, I didn't watch KingK's review of BotW BECAUSE I was avoiding spoilers. Obviously, I wasn't expecting spoilers for the newest Zelda game on a review for games that I beat 10 years ago.
Zelda is so great in Spirit Tracks. She'll flirt with other phantoms to distract them for you, and if you hit her with a boomerang enough times she'll snap and attack you right back. She's my favorite part about the game.
You:half a heart
Also you: annoys Zelda
Zelda:hits and kills you
Zelda and the sound track are the only good things about spirit tracks. Fuck the dungeons and fuck the central tower
@@r.r815 I like it how you annoy her and in return she fucking kills you. Chill out Zelda.
The ending to ST is also pure fanservice.
i like the story of spirit tracks and the characters a lot. it is also the game to do multiple endings the best(suck that,breath of the wild!) since all it requires you to do is just beat the boss again without any sidequesttrouble. however,the gameplay just feels bad to me. they made it point and click because people complained about it being to impercise and that rolling is too inconsistant. i can get it to work perfectly,it is just a game that gets better with skill. likewise,what spirit tracks did was erase that skill=fun thing by making it easy to learn but restrictive af to the point where there is nothing to master
I remember I purposely named myself “Linebeck” only for him to say “Linebeck? What a weird name. My names Linebeck!”
Hahahaha saaaaame. Good times :)
Yeah I did the exact same thing too! Lol I thought he’d say something else.
same lol
How to make a hypocrite
Is weird if someone else have it
"Tetra being Zelda is never brought up ... she's just Tetra."
Well, it's brought up once. Her crew calls her Zelda at the very beginning, and she scolds them and demands that they just call her Tetra.
It fits a lot better than in Wind Waker, where she suddenly acts like the traditional Zelda after the reveal. Her entire life, she's been Tetra, she would naturally want to keep living like that.
I think they also mention it in the opening cut scene don't they?
Even better than not bringing it up.
@@VGamingJunkie She didn't "suddenly start acting like traditional Zelda"; she was remorseful that she unwittingly dragged Link and his family into all this. Remember how she was suddenly easily convinced to take Link to the Forsaken Fortress once it was pointed out that the bird that kidnapped Link's sister was originally after her? She felt guilty about it; it's completely consistent with Tetra's personality.
Matthew St. Cyr
But to suddenly act like the traditional royal Zelda, without any signs of Tetra at all?
I reached the forced microphone segment to get the bombs in Phantom Hourglass while with my family in a Burger King. I was too young to know just blowing on the mic works, and the character demanded I yell, so I had to walk outside and scream at the top of my lungs at the DS to progress.
Lmao
i couldn't progress past that part bc my dsi had a broken mic 😭 luckily i eventually figured out what the issue was and i swapped to my brother's dsi to complete that part
My microphone broke partway through PH, late enough that I could still complete it though. Sadly, this meant I could only do like, 3% of ST, because damn is that gimmick overused.
I ended up re-buying ST on the WiiU virtual console in order to get to play it at all. Really soured me on the microphone mechanics. (And the Locomo music bits didn't help. No game should *ever* take you 50 tries to get a damn music minigame right.)
@@Draezeth - "No game should ever take you 50 tries to get a damn music minigame right."
I mean... *They don't...* That just means you absolutely suck at them...
I got them all first try, maybe second at most, as a kid... They are very easy, but also easily the best implementation of a musical instrument in Zelda.
Sneezed into the mic
These two were my first exposure to the series, and I thought for the longest time that they were representative of it. Finding out Ganondorf existed was an interesting experience.
Ooo that would be neat..
Same here. I first played Phantom then Spirit. By the time I played OoT and Ganondorf was introduced to me, it amazed me when he actually succeeded at taking over Hyrule.
same! oot was right after these for me, and i was surprised at how villainous he was!! like how he was a human with words and absolute evilest intent, instead of a big monster yk?
same, after these two i played ocarina of time, so different somehow, with horses and ganondorf ect
Same with me homie got a used copy of Phantom Hourglass at gamestop been my favorite game series since
i remember completely focused on avoiding phantoms and being terrified of them as a kid. your age is such a big factor in how hard you find the game.
Yup
Obviously
I figured it out in like 10 seconds but my problem was that i played this game on an emulator so try to figure out how to close my emulator took me maybe 3 hours XD
@@HandheldGamer1991 wrong comment lol
If i see a powerful opponent in a zelda game or any game im going straight in i refuse to let a game enemy become a fear of mine besides it wouldn’t feel like a victory to beat the game but avoid that one enemy would it?
"I just don't want to be on the train, doing nothing, for hours of my life."
mate that aint a video game thats a commute
Lotus most realistic Zelda game
Lowkey, it's an Uber simulator. Have to go the speed limit. Can't make harsh stops. Can't miss your passenger's stops. And if you fail, you get a bad review
@@Painted_Owl i was just about to say "so an uber" but then i read uber simulator ...last for some reason
Sweats in Half Life
Honestly? As a young GenZ whippersnapper Spirit Tracks was my very first Zelda experience. I remember spending literal hours trying to come up with new songs on the flute, or just driving the train and listening to the *downright godly* "full steam ahead" theme. In fact, hearing the sound track again brought amazing memories back and quite a few tears to my eyes. To me it's the most atmospheric game, simply by the virtue of the music (to me the best in the series, the "breathy" flute tunes are dope a fück).
Man... I feel old.
I got this game about 3 months ago and I'm im my 4TH playthrough. I like to extend my playthrough as much as posible, I love it that much
It's one of my favorites and I picked it up as an adult and skeptical of the title. I'd put it in my top 10. Those final few spirit tower levels are about as hard as the Oracle final dungeons, enemies are varied, great music, Zelda is not just utilized a lot, she's used more than most of Link's partners just in general, and it's items were tons of fun.
@@wolfgod6443 I remember when I fist got through that dungeon, I spent three HOURS there and enjoyed every second of it. Great game
@@wolfgod6443 A lot of people seem to dislike the compass of light level, but it is my favorite "dungeon" of the game. Even knowing the exact routing it takes slightly less than an hour to beat it and it is fun at the same time.
It has this room that kind of mirrors the general dungeon desing of Phantom Hourglass of one large room accesed by many doors, most closed and many inaccesible areas you acces by other means. And you return to it to get diferent the Phantoms to use.
When I think about it, those final levels are like... fully realized PH dungeons and a part of me wishes all dungeons were like this. Most dungeons in ST are designed kinda like TotOK rooms without a timer and harder challeges, which is fine as I love TotOK but...
I think this I why I love PH's dungeons so much. They lack in head scratching puzzles, but honestly, just traversing through these dungeons is satisfying and fun.
That hand holding at the end of Spirit Tracks is the best ending to any Zelda game.
That's hand holding in a Zelda game done right... *looks at Skyward Sword*
Bluespheal good one
But that means that Tetra and Wind Waker Link never got together.
I cried when i first saw it hahaha im so silly
Twilight princess and skyward sword had the best endings
Something I really like about Phantom hourglass in retrospect is the fact that the ghost ship was an unexplained part of the Wind Waker before becoming it's own seperate adventure in a later title. I don't know, it helps flesh out the world. That mysterious object turned out to have it's own whole history unbeknownst to Link at the time.
Well that is not the same ghist ship in PH
@@scipion3679 There's nothing proving that they aren't. They have the same aethetics and exterior at very least.
@@marche800 The fact you board it in both games and they're completely different once you're on-board kinda suggests that... also the fact that the legend of both is very different, and even the WAY you board them.
@@FlackNCoke It's a supernatural phenomenon, I don't think it's that strange for it to change or for people to have different interpretations especially since very few NPCs knew the true history behind the ship even in Phantom Hourglass. The tales of great treasures abord lines up pretty well with the Triforce piece/chart found aboard if you ask me. You even get kicked off almost immediately after you board it in Wind Waker probably because of the presence of the master sword is driving away the dark powers aboard the ship. Plus do you really think that there are two seperate Ghost Ships that look exactly the same sailing around the great seas?
@@marche800 Watch closely. Not the same size, the same exterior, the same interior.
Although they could be linked in some way
Beating the final boss in Spirit Tracks by controlling Link and Zelda at the same time was the most satisfying and fulfilling moment I've had gaming. The music, mechanics, and character development were all so perfectly utilized in making that moment unforgettable in my childhood.
My most favorite Scene in Spirit tracks is Zelda tearing up before fa ing the final boss. Fucking sends chills down my spine Everytime I see it.
I think the most memorable scene for me is when you're on the train talking to the characters right before the final segment, really adds a sense of finality to it that I don't see in a lot of other games
It is also my favorite Final Battle in the Zelda franchise.
The music was such a huge part of that. The way it cycles through the songs you learned- I'm getting chills just remembering it! And yes, 100%, this is the first time Link and Zelda have *truly* worked together in a main-line Zelda game. (Baffling that 3 spinoffs have done it though!)
I can’t get over how you can make Phantom Zelda try and make small talk with the hostile phantoms. It’s adorable.
Linebeck's moment when he strikes Bellum legit made me feel emotional when it happened.
Legit I teared up
It showed how much Linebeck cared!! Boy is he underappreciated.
It's the moment when Linebeck wasn't just a blowhard, he'd become a real hero. He may have been trembling with fear, but he overcame it.
YO SAME
Man that moment GETS ME
I honestly forgot how much of a great character linebeck is,
He's very underrated tbh.
you forgot because he isn't a good character
He's a horrible Character, but everyone has their preferences so Its okay
In my opinion Linebeck is bad character (except the conversations with ciela); until you almost get the phantom sword then things are set up for him to steal the show in the end turning him into a great memerable character
He's the prototype of Fi!
I didn't hate traveling in Spirit track...
I thought it was cool and relaxing before getting to the next destination
Homi Yosh except when you got attacked by that spider 😅
I thought so too
The only issue i really, REALLY have with the overworld are the dark/armoured trains. THEY SCARED THE HELL OUT OF ME WHEN I WAS A KID (and still scare me to this day)
Homi Yosh I loved destroying things with the cannon!
Ana Nini They’re super annoying (in a good way)!
I’d love a “windwaker trilogy” HD remake for switch with windwaker, hourglass and spirit tracks. For switch
Would it be for switch?
Good luck
@@harrylane4I think so but it might be for switch
Phantom hourglass and spirit tracks but in third person like the wind waker with wind waker graphics would be really cool
Linebeck’s theme is so great, why isn’t it in SSBU?!
it really disapoints me, 99% of Toon Links music comes from Wind Waker with the exception of the Spirit Tracks overworld (which is really good in Smash) I wish they would take more music from his other adventures, 2 songs i wanted was Linebecks theme and the Zelda/Link Duet/Final Boss theme from Spirit Tracks, those 2 songs could fit perfectly into smash, however a lot of the new Zelda music was from BotW and Triforce Heroes
Zelda gets a little shafted in Smash on the whole
Chris Sullivan You think that’s bad?
They added Sticker Star music and a Sticker Star stage but nothing from the first 3 Paper Mario games.
Sadly Sakurai just doesn't give a fuck about adding good OTS for Smash! just look at Pikmin and Donkey Kong
Kazoorion
...literally “Kirby and ONLY Kirby”. Which, is kinda annoying. There are other iconic characters than just Mascot Mario and his boi Kirby.
(I’m all for a smaller roster that has better variety for playstyle/more balance rep of the games that are there. Like...there are more female characters besides princess-y/demi goddesses ones? You know, I personally like kicking ass as my own gender vs my gender literally only being there to be waifus. And it’s honestly a crying shame that there’s Toon Link and Young Link and Link...but no Tetra, Helga, or Midna. Really. Enough of the Links. One Link is enough. And all the Fire Emblem characters basically share the same skills. Quality over quantity)
if any zelda games deserve an HD remake its THESE
Probably on the switch, they should probably make an official stylus to be packaged with them, and finally both should be packaged together
Nah skyward sword and minish cap
DO IT NINTENDO
What would they do with the microphone features though? Even when playing spirit tracks on the 3ds, the different placement of the microphone was such an issue when playing the game because of those dang panpipes :(
Personally I believe ALTTP, Minish Cap and the Oracle duology deserves it first.
Being able to draw and write on the map was such an important feature to me that I always count it as a point against a game when the map cannot be written or noted on. Games like BotW really messed up in this department not allowing the player to take notes on the map.
BowandSvent yeah the sticker function for botw wasn’t enough for me. I kept forgetting where things were
Use a piece of paper
I guess there’s no way to implement that in docked mode, so yeah
Maybe the Wii U version would've had a feature like that if it hadn't been gutted so it wouldn't be superior to the Switch version.
Honestly ever since I played Spirit Tracks I've missed the ability to take notes on the system in not only zelda games, but other franchises as well. The Ace Attorney series comes to mind here.
When you realize spirit tracks is just full metal alchemist you have someone who wants to return someone’s soul to their original body and for the time being they inhabit a suit a armor, you also have a short blonde dude
Who're you calling a puny shrimp no bigger than a molecule?
I think Spirit Tracks over world exploration could have been really special if the entire rail system lay in ruins or something, and you had to draw your own tracks between railroads. The amount of tracks you could draw on your map would be limited, and increase whenever you beat a dungeon.
This would make exploring the world more of a puzzle as you would have to think strategically about where best to place your tracks, as well as providing a more dynamic progression system seeing as being able to create more tracks would open op the world naturally. Further more, every time you gained access to more tracks you would also be able to make new shortcuts between areas you had already visited, making revisiting those areas more intuitive and much less painful.
I realize that this comment is irrelevant and way to long but I just had this idea and really wanted the TH-cam comment section to know about it, even if only one person will ever read it (you).
You are very welcome, have nice day.
Overbite Games if your cat ever makes a video game where you explore the world by train, please let me know. I will buy that game.
SUTGURD Behrens this sounds so fucking amazing
Your comment is not irrelevant, it is constructive criticism. But more importantly it is NOT too long - it is literally 1 paragraph. Never apologize for writing a single paragraph. People are overstimulated and need to learn how to focus their attention spans, reading a short comment is not unreasonable.
Milktube I figured it was irrelevant mostly due to how old of a game Spirit Tracks is and the unlikelihood that a game similar to it will be made within the somewhat near future, and that it was too long because of that irrelevance. By that logic though the video we have all watched (presumably) would also be irrelevant, and I definitely do not think that it is. In other words, I see your point and agree with you. I also did not expect to receive any form of feedback, so I appreciate your response.
Give it sort of a Dark Cloud world rebuilding mechanic.
Fun fact: Nintendo prototyped the wall-merging mechanic from A Link Between Worlds using Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks' game engine
Cool. That would be fun to mess around with if you could get that in the actual game.
@Vice TOLUCT Theyve shown the footage before. It's even the reason the wall merge artwork is in the style of the opening credits to Wind Waker
@Vice TOLUCT Source iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/3ds/a-link-between-worlds/0/1
I thought the wall-merging was inspired by ALttP wall hacks.
Can we see gameplay of it some where?
Spirit tracks was my first Zelda game, and to this day is the only one I haven't finished.
**Angrily shakes fist at broken DS mic.**
Evan Kensington I felt this one king
If it helps if you have headphones with microphones you can use those.
It it is an OG DS-DSI there are DS headphones that use that square port with mics
If you own the game you can also emulate it legally. There's a way to trigger the microphone on emulator-and it's free!
Desmume on a laptop- set a key to the mic and you don’t even have to blow or anything it does it automatically
5:15 Kind of why I loved having the full Gold set, as if the Ocean King was giving Linebeck his treasure he sought, in the form of the ship he loved.
I always preferred the default ship, even though i experimented with the different parts throughout the game, but that's genuinely a good point for using the golden ship parts!
Very fitting, even if him getting his good old classic ship back makes for a sweeter and more emotional ending.
Man, those last words really got me. Having played both of these games in my younger years and thoroughly enjoying both of them at the time, it does kind of sting to know that nothing like these two games will ever be made again. It's even more disheartening to realize that they could have been the best Zelda game ever made.
Same here. Played the crap outta both when I was a kid. I realized PH was kinda crappy but ST for me was like the legit stuff, and I never really understood why it got so overlooked.
@@threadedRenderer PH had to crawl so ST could walk, but it's such a shame we never got a third game to take the best of each and run with it
At least we go A Link Between Worlds
I’m curious, what aspects of these games do you find so endearing? Is it the touch controls? Link on a train? Or the recurring dungeon?
I just finished Spirit Tracks and hated it, wondering what I missed
@@michaelcottrello It's more so the writing that endeared the game to me. Watching Zelda and Link slowly build a believable relationship through their interactions was really refreshing. And to this day, Spirit Tracks has my favorite final boss fight in any Zelda game. Of course, I haven't played the game in nearly a decade, so I can't vouch for the gameplay (which I recall disliking firmly back then). But I actually found myself caring about what happened to Zelda in this game, which I can't say for any other game before or after. Maybe it's my nostalgia goggles, but I don't think any other Zelda game actually did Zelda better than this one.
I _really_ get the feeling that Nintendo decided to make the Tower of Spirits be done in segments rather than having to repeat previous floors due to the reception of the Temple of the Ocean King. I remember when Phantom Hourglass game out everybody *hated* that concept so much and then rejoiced when it was fixed in Spirit Tracks. Although I definitely see your point that it pretty much ruins the concept of revisiting a dungeon multiple times if you don‘t get to improve on previous sections.
A central dungeon is nice but having it just be you go on deeper each time from the start gets really annoying. It would be nice if you could eventually get a few checkpoints that send you down like 6 floors
Quite a bit of Spirit Tracks was in response to criticisms of Phantom Hourglass. For instance, I remember the one thing that got more hatred than the Temple of the Ocean King and the touchscreen controls *combined* was Tetra immediately getting damseled and spending the whole game being sidelined. Suddenly, Spirit Tracks is the first ever mainline Zelda game with a playable Zelda that accompanies Link for the whole game.
Spirit Tracks even outright admits this at one point in an obvious fourth-wall break: when the Postman explains the mail system, he states that they used to deliver the mail by reading it to you (the way it worked in Phantom Hourglass), but, "We heard a lot of complaints about it, so now we just give you your letter instead of reading it to you".
@@matthewmuir8884 haha great examples!
Although not much, there are still a few places in the Tower of Spirits where you can come back to previous floors with new items to get chests.
I remember getting an item in a dungeon and realizing where I could use it in the Tower.
I, for one, am *baffled* by the Temple of the Ocean King complaint, and even more so at just how ubiquitous it is. Until this video, I felt like I was the *only* person who liked it. Getting to progress in the dungeon by treading new paths is amazing!
I think I can understand wanting a warp to lower floors, but only after you've cleared it completely! It's one of the easier ways to get new ship parts, so that would actually have been really nice.
Honestly, I love Spirit Tracks’ Zelda. She’s so sweet and makes me feel like I genuinely need to protect her. Also, I love that scene where she freaks out about Malladus using her body. Mostly because of the lack of voice acting makes the upset grunting even funnier to me.
Phantom Hourglass was my first Zelda game, followed by Spirit Tracks. Thanks for making this. Nice to know that these titles aren't forgotten.
Same
same. I didnt even know it was a sequal to a long franchise, when they announced windwaker HD it completely blew my mind
@@herrherr2086sameeeee! I didn’t know windwaker was around before the Wii u so when I found out that the game I started on, phantom hourglass, was a direct sequel to it I had to play windwaker and then hourglass again! Currently beat windwaker but am going back again with the triforce save to 100% it
Spirit tracks is unfairly forgotten. Easily the best pre-3ds portable zelda. Wonderful music and story.
I dunno about that. You've got Link's Awakening, Oracle of Ages, and the remake of LttP to compete with there.
LA and the Oracle games definitely blow it out of the water.
To the 2 guys who responded, I totally understand where you guys are coming from. My spirit tracks Nostalgia blinds me. I respect both you guys' opinions.
@@Jordan-ck3un Spirit Tracks somewhat out dues them in identity though. Spirit Tracks at least tries to seem pretty new and original from the moment you boot up the game. With the Oracle games they kind of come off as DLC add ons for Link to the Past than actual full blown new games. They are still pretty good though.
Don't forget about minish cap. Easily outdoes both ds zeldas
Spirit tracks' Zelda is without a doubt the best Zelda.
It just physically hurts me that spirit tracks is so overlooked, mainly because it means that so little of the Zelda fanbase know about this incarnation of Zelda
ALL HAIL THE HERO OF TRAINS!!!
it really is one of the best. Even Linked Universe, a comic of all of the Links coming together to fight evil doesn't have Hero of Spirit
Just look at it this way, with Smash Bros splitting Shiek and Zelda and thus giving Zelda a new DownB in the form of her summoning the Spirit Tracks armor, people will get curious as to why she has that ability and look it up.
@@SpecterVonBaren yeah, same with the Phantom armor in the breath of the wild dlc
What alternate reality have I walked into?
Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks remastered for switch anyone?
i would KILL for that!
ItsMeMNMXD I’d love that but how would it work without the two screens
@@nprweirdo I would put a quick access icon to switch (hah) between the map and gameplay i suppose. But thinking about it, especially with some of the bosses verticality, its hard to imagine it looking the exact same.. some bigger changes would deffo need to be made
@@nprweirdo mapping the overhead map to a mini map or a button, and to be honest most of these games could be reworked for buttons control wise, the only problem would be the spirit flute sections
IMAGINE
Ooh, shoutouts to the fact that the DS mic was always active on a school bus due to ambient noise making certain things way easier and making others way more difficult
I don’t care what anyone says, phantom hourglass is my favourite game, period. This game was my childhood
All it needed was an upgrade system for the train to move faster
If it had that prople would have loved it. I can't stand this game because of that ,especially because they give you 10 times the travel speed during the last boss fight.....
That's cool man, its great you love these games. I put Hourglass over Spirit tracks at least imo. I think Linebeck is easily a nice character along with his theme
@@HandheldGamer1991 Spirit Tracks was the one with the train. Phantom Hourglass was the one with the paddle steamer.
Exactly phantom hourglass is such a fun game
Definitely a big part of mine! The nostalgia is real
But in all honestly how long were people stuck on the map puzzle in phantom hourglass where you have to close your DS to put the marker on your map. I was STUCK ON THAT FOR DAYS
I had to look it up.
Apparently a lot. I never finished Phantom Hourglass, but I've seen 20 of comments like this so it shows me how hard is must have been.
I literally closed mine ds because I felt so stupid for not getting it as a kid and took a break on that spot... once I open it back..I was like...WTF DID I MISS..DID SOMEONE PLAY ON MY DS!?!
@@sircadet9035 I think I did the same thing!
@@sircadet9035 I did the same thing too lol
Ahh nostalgia. . . Phantom hours glass was my first Zelda game and it BLEW MY LITTLE MIND back then lol. Been a fan of the series ever since
Same, I hope you’re still playing today! Don’t forget to replay every now and then (I say this as I’m mid boss fight on spirit tracks)
In my first play through, I also was stunned by The Ocean King reveal. Then the re-play had me saying, "How didn't I see the hints?"
The overworld theme for Spirit Tracks is actually one of my favorite video game themes of all time. Too bad it was so often interrupted with the same freaking enemies at the same exact areas...
Check out a remix of that done by Qumu
I say the song is better with the train noises
@@haydenread730 same, listening to it on TH-cam, it feels "empty". Amazing how train engines are so rhythmic
"Even though he didn't steal anything that important from her"
EXCEPT HER HEART!
That’s not important!
Mattias Romare Training that’s what I was thinking
Really love Jolene it gives more character to Linebeck because most partner in Zelda have no character outside of saving world.
“The chancellor is evil”
Man where have I heard that before?
Chancellor Cole actually lampshades that when he reveals himself to be evil and non-human; he explains that he hoped becoming chancellor would give him the kind of influence over the kingdom that evil chancellors normally have in fiction, only to be disappointed that Zelda is a very active ruler despite her young age and that being chancellor basically just meant being "royal babysitter", as he puts it.
ST Zelda is just amazing in terms of jokes, plus she does feel like a character with all the things she does, such as talking to phantoms for you and her getting angry and attacking you if you hit her too many times
yeah I love spirit tracks Zelda!! so full of personality
I think she has the beginnings of a lot of personality. That meltdown at the start is great.
After that her character just sort of plateaus though, and she doesn't seem to express any kind of change until right at the end. Compare that to Linebeck, whose progression was constantly obvious.
I think a missed opportunity was they could've had her, towards the end, finally snap and attack one of the rats that had always made her uncomfortable throughout the rest of the game. That would've been awesome.
@@Mayeur000Donz I really wouldn't say she "plateaus". After she possesses her first Phantom, she doesn't really do anything else new until the end, so there's not a lot of visible character growth... but when you get to the end, you can see the difference that all that experience made.
She's very different by the end, and without all that time spent in between, it would have come across as a very unrealistic change.
@@Nyzer_
Yeah but you want to see that progress in motion, right?
I mean, imagine if Linebeck acted the same until the very end of Phantom Hourglass. You could probably still buy that the adventure had changed him but without the step by step it'd just drain everything satisfying about his story.
Agreed. If we could get or have gotten a think like from out of "Crimson Skies" and / or "Bloodwake" with a dash of FFIV with the darves / gorons, etc...
It'd be amazing to see, seeing how Hyrule has a great history of technology?
(or perhaps especially after BoTW, what could come to be again.)
Literally just re-bought Spirit Tracks this morning so this is a sign I made a good decision haha
Where the hell did you find one?
I got mine used from Gamestop
Are that the government watching u
Christian Walsh what do you mean?
@@_simon.s_ Found it on ebay for a decent price. Don't know why it's spiking so high but mine was stolen a few years ago so I just bought the game cart since I still had my original case and manual
OG groose?
Linebeck is practically the best Zelda character lol
OG groose
@@bouncycreepy OG groose
@@jacobjenkins7362 just rewatched the video
Yeah linebecks the best character. Groose has nothing on him.
"Tetra being Princess Zelda is never brought up"
Apart from the intro where Nico is holding the very paper slideshow apparatus that makes mention of this, as inconsequential as it is.
can't wait for the next Retrospective in which you proclaim link's crossbow training as the greatest zelda game of all time! (in all seriousness though thanks for covering these two, spirit tracks is my favorite :P)
Honestly, Link's Crossbow Training is really fun (by no means better than any of the mainline games), however for being a free pack-in with the Wii Zapper, it was a solid time waser.
Linebeck literally was made in the image of Johnny Depp, I swear to God, it's uncanny
It makes me happy to hear someone else who likes the Temple of the Ocean King
I have felt so alone for so long...
The most memorable thing about Spirit Tracks for me was the sound track. I definitely think it was the best of any Zelda game.
Yeah it was pretty good.
I wouldn't say it's THE best soundtrack of the series but it's SUPER underrated. i love that the pan flute is in pretty much every track, it's pretty, and lends to the identity of the game's music.
The tracks really had spirit didn't they.
Idk i like the TP overworld theme more and nothing compares to the feeling when you play OOT
But its pretty good i dont disagree
Ugh, the ending got me sad. These were my first two zelda games, and every zelda game I've played afterwards I always thought back to these experiences and how I would love to experience them again. I would argue that these games define zelda more than games like Ocarina of Time, or A Link to the Past. Because while those games have icon characters and scenes that every zelda has, zelda is a series about exploration and discovering a world. Simply looking at different takes on the same story doesn't feel like discovering a world, it feels like playing the same game retextured to look like a different experience. I remember when I first learned about the zelda timeline, I sat there thinking of ideas and possible plots that could continue the timeline these games take place in. It's just so exciting to think of the different villains and ideas these games imply, especially with the technologically advanced settings. Hopefully Nintendo will stumble upon these ideas as they continue to try and innovate zelda.
I think Breath of the Wild proved that within the same basic story, the villain and gameplay can still feel incredibly unique. I do wish they'd branch out and put Link in different lands though. I think the main reason it doesnt happen often is how there's like one Zelda per console, and I mean they have to have a big Zelda game that shows what the series is all about for the people who will be playing a Zelda for the first time. Reinterpreting the same story in new ways is also an easy way to show off the console's capabilities.
Zelda II: Adventures of Link was the first game to branch out and not be about Zelda and Ganondorf. Link's Awakening was the first to leave Hyrule. Majora's Mask was the 2nd to do it. The Oracle series were completely new stories in far off lands as well. These 2 games weren't as revolutionary as you think they are.
Spirit Tracks was my first Zelda game ever. Glad I started with the “Weakest Link” 😂
Goodbye😉
This brings “You complete me” to a whole new level.
“Two halves of an unfulfilled whole”
1:47 Begin: New Horizons
The Two Criticism
(1) 14:59 The Great Sea
(2) Dungeon Design 40:08
22:16 Spirit Tracks, you can’t go off the tracks, while you can go any direction you feel like on sea
Phantom Hourglass
+ Whale Island
Spirit Tracks
25:48 - Vast majority of quests involves bringing something to someplace (excessive. 22 times)
- Slow train, restrictive tracks
*The Silent Cartographer*
34:21 movement and combat
+ “Refreshingly original”
37:43 + Mapmaking is cool
56:50 Boss
59:24 The Video’s Thesis.
1:02:26 Breathe of the Wild
1:04:00 To Be Continued
The puzzle that involved closing the DS to copy the map took me ages. I only managed to solve it when I ragequit and closed the DS to do something else.
That's how everyone I know who played the game found that out, so you're not alone.
Ha. Man now I wish I finished it.
I did literally the same thing. Had a proper fml moment immediately afterwards
Such a clever puzzle. It literally solves itself for you when you give up.
That took me months cos I had a habit of just turning the DS off whenever I went to do something else.
I played this with the D-pad mod and it was amazing. I couldn't choose between Spirit Track's Zelda or the character growth of Phantom Hourglass' Linebeck
I love Spirit Tracks to such an infinite level I cant put it into sheer words. The music and character... so much good stuff... why do people dislike it so much (be quiet I know why, but I still love it anyway)
I DONT KNOW WHY!!!! Tell me please the game is too good to hate
@@justinwright1721 The train isn't inherently bad, but the travel gameplay can get really boring and monotonous super quickly. It can feel like padding and does for most people. The touch screen controls are used very well, but more utility honestly could've been drawn from it. The DS mic socks when it comes to the Spirit Flute. The dungeons are very linear.
The music is perfect, however. The story is immaculate in so many ways. Zelda is the best she's ever been, honestly. And there is still tons of fun gameplay to be found. And there was multiplayer!!! It was good game, despite its flaws.
"Two halves of an unfulfilled whole"
Before watching the video, my take:
PH: Better overworld, better sidequests, better warp system, no goddamn flute
ST: Better dungeons, better puzzles, better bosses, better music
Those goddamn flute made me want to chuck my ds across the room.
@@superslobro Mainly just the flute section with carben, or was it another one.
@@MrMoon-hy6pn all of them. My DS didn't register me doing the flute section for like 10 tries
did you play using a ds or ds lite or using a 3ds? the 3ds microphone is in a really weird spot where one would never find it. otherwise,i would have no idea why it would not register aside from you maybe having a broken ds
@@lpfan4491 i used a 3ds, but I don't remember the ds version being better.
Aw man, this made me sad. Doubly so since I had forgotten *exactly* how incredible Spirit Tracks Zelda is.
Yeah. Same here.
Spirit Tracks hadthe best Zelda personality wise.
Ik this a 2 year old video but the idea of the spirit train making its own tracks is litterally the best thing I've ever heard ever
Oh yeah, the one with the train stage in Smash
~Most people who don't really know Zelda that well
Ha, when I saw that I thought, "Wow, I didn't even think of putting that in there."
Always love watching these before I pass out
Dude me too. Happy memories and nostalgia before drifting off into a deep slumber which I often hope I never wake up from because life is pain and suffering until a likely even more painful death. Like I said, totally feel the same way.
Same puts me to sleep dreaming about zelda haha
Relatable
It's midnight where I'm at so literally same lol
Dan ow the edge
I have never been able to find the words or any way to explain my love for both of these games along with their flaws, this was *THE* best summary and comparison to both I have seen in ages. It was definitely worth the hour of my time, and I'd happily watch it again.
About the "backtrack" sections of the dungeon, where you open up easier ways to "backtrack", it actually serves a different purpose. Due to the nature of the game being a mobile game, it is meant to be played when one has time to play. As such, opening the new paths are not there for backtracking, but to assist one in returning to the spot where they left off. Just felt that I had to correct that. Great video otherwise.
People really be sleeping on Zelda from Spirit Tracks. She's such a great character, and actually plays a major role in a game that's titled after her.
I wish BotW Zelda had as much presence as Spirit Tracks Zelda had.
Well, that ending was depressing.
Yeah. That's kind of why I watch his stuff. They're pretty powerful.
not the biggest fan of A Link to the Past are you?
Until I saw a link between worlds and a link to the past.
@@theboivenom4170 lol
Unpopular opinion that I share with probably two other people, but I actually like spirit tracks as my favorite Zelda game. Music, puzzles, combat, all so good
I'm one of those two people. I recognize that it's not the best Zelda game and it does have problems (I could not play any of the plot-mandatory duets on the spirit flute), but the good stuff about the game is fantastic. Princess Zelda and her dynamic with Link is easily the best thing about the game.
this is going to hurt, i think. I love those games, they are a part of my childhood, i know they are casual but that is part of why i love them, cause i am a harcore casual. I know about the flaws, i know they are hated, but man I had a great time playing these
I actually really liked phantom hourglass, I even 100%-ed it. The movement actually kinda works, I forgot that I used the touchscreen to play it even!
lineback did steal something, he stole her heart
Omfg it makes perfect sense. It meant nothing to him, but everything to her.
Fuuuuuck.
Spirit Zelda and Linebeck are singlehandedly my two favourite characters in any Zelda game I have played so far. The absolutely ooze personality and reading their dialogue is an absolute joy
Thank you spirit tracks and phantom hourglass.
I remember playing my Ds with phantom hourglass and then going on TH-cam to see people hating on but it this the first video actual highlighting its good qualities and what I liked about it. Good Job KingK :-).
Thank you for your take on both, but specially Phantom Hourglass.
The exploration and customization of that game is so underrated and it's so fun to me. And character wise, it's one of the best written zelda games, Linebeck is just too good.
Even with so many flaws, even after playing almost every game, Phantom Hourglass is the one I revisit the most.
And my first (and most finished) Zelda was A Link to the Past so it's not that much of nostalgia...
Nintendo is secretly working on the TS, "Tri-Screen." It opens up like a brochure.
Which they will obviously port the entire series onto.
@@thesuperMasterSword wow
Finally, someone who doesn't hate the Temple of the Ocean King because it makes you backtrack! Someone who doesn't hate these two games for being so different!
Having never played Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass' sea features were definitely a lot more original and interesting for me
Not one, but two Zelda games in one Video. You spoil us King K I've been anticipating this. Thank You.
59:33 and onward.
Wow. This is why I watch this channel. I love the fact that the credits at the end had no music, it really fit with the tone of this section. You seem much more serious than many other reviewers, and touch on games I never would have thought were great. I played Spirit Tracks for a while, and touched a little on Phantom Hourglass. I enjoyed them, but never thought about them this in depth. Your retrospective has really changed my mind on these two games. While I disagree with some of your points, I wholeheartedly agree with what you said in this last section. Very good work. I can't believe that you aren't a bigger TH-camr than you are. You really deserve to be watched more often. Keep up the good work, I look forward to more analysis.
Yeah but he was being selfish and pretentious. That's HIS best zelda game that fits HIS niche. Not mine or everyone's collectively.
@@lordtullus9942 I do not believe he was being selfish. This entire video was his experiences with the games, and his opinion on how they relate to each other, and at the end, other games. It can be inferred that he assumed that people would realize that everything he says is his opinion, and his thoughts. You can agree to it, or not. It is up to you. That being said, I do understand the point you are coming from though, and I will respect that.
@@trackernivrig And I respect you for being kind and considerate. I apologize for being brash and rude.
@@lordtullus9942 Thank you very much. Apology accepted.
This comment thread reminds me that people on the internet can be considerate.
the fact you gave that clarification in the beginning shows how much you care abut the subject . im now a forever sub. these where big childhood games. Thank you so much for your hard work.
You're one of my favourite people on youtube, and seeing a video by you come out about these games was so exciting to put into my watch later! I've watched it now fully, and I think you made some really good points and observations! Spirit Tracks is my 3rd favourite Zelda game, and it was nice to see someone talk realistically about it's flaws but also praise it which I don't see often!
the clips of you just straight up jumping off ledges were a real treat
Thank you for understanding what makes the temple of the ocean king great, and why the tower of spirits missed the mark on making a successor to that dungeon's ideas. So many people hate the temple for the backtracking, and that always disheartens me
@@lordtullus9942 I mean, dude, they're his opinions on the games. Of course it's not the same for everyone. He's not suggesting his thoughts are objectively right and anyone that disagrees is objectively wrong. You can disagree all you want, but I don't think it's fair to call it egotistical and arrogant just because that's what he wants from Zelda dungeons. He's not obligated to present all possible perspectives in his videos.
@@rex_yaldabaoth ok
not just the backtracking, but being TIMED. That dungeon stressed me out so much that I've never gone back to PH just to avoid getting frustrated with a god damn video game.
@@MidoriMushrooms Yeah, that's fair enough, I felt similar the first time I played the game. However, I did get over that once I found that the timer is very lenient. I don't think i've ever ran out of time, or even come that close to running out, even the first time I played the game.
@@rex_yaldabaoth Agreed. Honestly, The timer is Extremely lenient.
Frankly, the only reason I ever had any timer troubles at all is I missed the point of the Dungeon, and kept trying the same solutions to puzzles every time I returned.
I started with this video and then went on to marathon every video you've put out relating to games I've played.
These retrospectives are outstanding.
I play games at a very surface level. I have fun or I get frustrated and I rarely fully understand why in either case. So its really cool to hear such a deep look into the design elements of all these games. I also love how you're able to do this with such vastly different types of games. (Zelda, Mario, Kingdom Hearts, Sonic).
I have subscribed happily, and you can bet you'll have a new patron in the near future.
Phantom Hourglass was my first Zelda game ever! I’ll never forget it. It started a great journey and love for the Zelda franchise. I know these two games aren’t masterpieces, but they’re dear to my heart for me. Hopefully they are for others too!
I get the feeling that i'm the only one that LOVES Spirit Tracks.
nope. I'm here
I'm here too
It's my second or third favorite.
Nah I love it too
Spirit Tracks is the Brawl of Zelda. Everyone hates it, except most actually really like it. It's just one loud sub-community that gives it the bad reputation. I will say though, the ST hating community is larger than the Brawl hating community.
Ahh you know sometimes I just put your Zelda retrospectives on my other monitor and listen to them while I'm playing a game or something, even if I've already rewatched them so many times. It's just nice to have an hour of Zelda talk and the good points made about the games in the background. They're definitely better than watching most of the stuff on here. Loved this one Btw you're great!
You know, that's a great idea. Good thinking.
Tracker Nivrig Glad I could help haha
Professor Lankto I do that too. His voice kind of relaxing tbh
This retrospective has interested me so much in these two games that I now want to track them down, as I missed out on them the first time.
You did a great job on this video, didn't know how interesting these two DS games really were.
Thanks.
spirit tracks has one of the best scores in the franchise it’s sad that not a lot of people appreciate it
If you really like the map-making a whole lot, Etrian Odyssey sounds like the series for you
Great video. I loved both of these games, but I agree with all of your points. These were actually the first Zelda games I ever played.
The next one I played was Twilight Princess, so you can imagine how much THAT blew my mind.
I love Linebeck. He may be my fav Zelda character of all time.
9:48 - I'd counter the argument of BoTW not having any mystery, with the fact that BoTW had something else to replace it, the feeling of coming back from nothing, to become strong once again. In my opinion, it's a powerful feeling of powerlessness given to the player because they were at one point a trained soldier who knew and had so much, but had failed. In another way, it's the feeling of a lack of control, a lack of control over the situation calamity ganon had brought. And since I find control something I care for dearly, this lack of power and control really connected with me.
Both of these Zelda games have a very special place in my heart, despite their flaws. That being said, even though I love PH, I do think it has way less redeeming qualities than ST does. However, I must admit I really appreciate that you reminded me of some of the reasons I still loved PH back in the day when I first played it.
Linebeck will always be my favourite Zelda character, he has a great story arc and such a memorable presence through the entire game and his personality is a blast to boot (something which is a rare sight in this series if we're honest, for main characters that is). Likewise ST Zelda is the best Zelda in the franchize imo, outside of Skyward Sword I feel its the only other game where Link's and Zelda's relationship feels beleiveable, charming and just great to see develop.
Finally I must say that, while I do get where you come from and I enjoyed seeing your positive perspective on the Temple of the Ocean King, I just loathed that place far too much, I still do, it started out fun but quickly became a chore. The timer felt like nothing but a stress factor, and not in a good way; and the fact that you revisit and re-do its levels through the entire game really diminished a big part of the experience for me in the long run, because the Temple became this constant feeling in the back of my head of having an upcoming deadline I have no way to avoid doing and that I REALLY dont want to do. On the other hand I just straight up adored the Tower of Spirits from beggining to end, it fixed all of my problems with the Temple of the Ocean King, and due to not having the Time Limit AND the constant Revisiting factor, it allowed the level design to be a lot more complex and challlenging... it was just so much more fun to me.
Either way, awesome retrospective man! Loved the video, cant wait for the next one!
I will agree that the 2 DS games do very much feel like continuations of eachother.
(with some things in the second that feel like the game was pushed out a bit soon)
Seeing how these two games had strengths and weaknesses that complemented each other, I bet a third installment would have found a way to have its new ideas still intermesh with these two! So it probably wouldn't had been the perfect game KingK.
Wow you managed to keep my attention for a whole hour. This video is a masterpiece and shows appreciation for 2 Zelda games I believe are the most underrated out of any of them. Time to watch the other ones you made.
People may criticize the touch screen only stylus controls but they work beautifully on my Note 8. It also has a built in stylus (SPen) and makes the games feel perfect for this device.
@@Chad_Eldridge >new ways of doing things.
That's absolutely false. If something ain't broke, then don't fix it.
I still consider Skyward Sword as the spiritual 3rd part of the "Land Sea Sky" trilogy. It has a lot of the same concepts and approaches as the other two.
This
I think you're right. Although I wouldn't have minded a Hot Air Balloon/Zeppelin Zelda game, it would allow for more exploration like PH. Also, personally I think the 'Sky' is even more lacklustre than Wind Waker's overworld.
@@Sakirth Agreed, I LOVED flying my Loftwing and wished I had something more interesting to do while doing it.
That must be why it's so shite.
And it's riddled with gimmicks that kill the game.
Zelda from Spirit Tracks is the only one who actually deserve to have the game name after her since it's the only game where she plays an active from start till the end.
These two games should get a remake bundle together on the switch (hell maybe even throw in wind waker) with new controls, improved graphics, etc. Basically just give them the link’s awakening treatment.