Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks - The Dual Successors
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ค. 2024
- Taking a look at the two successors to my favourite game, and investigating where the wind took them!
Thumbnail by raspbi / raspbi
Special thanks to:
My good friend Tyler for allowing me to borrow his 3DS to capture footage! This video would not have been possible without him. / tigercowz
ZeldaDungeon for being a fantastic resource, as always! www.zeldadungeon.net
And all of the Twitch viewers that helped me record these games live!
Chapters:
0:00 Intro
4:17 Visuals
5:45 Core Gameplay
16:52 Items
26:32 Dungeons
39:56 Overworld
1:11:38 The Two Towers
1:21:06 Finale
Sources
zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Permane...
Aonuma cites the Zelda formula as “aging” and mentions PH’s appeal to casual gamers www.gamernode.com/e3-07-the-di...
Perfect Strategy for Bombchu Bowling • Perfect Strategy for B...
Dampe Graveyard Heart Piece Footage • Ocarina of Time Gravey...
Battle Mode Footage • The Legend of Zelda: P...
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Be sure to check out Last Life, a community and forum for thoughtful video game discussion! www.last-life.net - เกม
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Fun fact about the music in "Spirit Tracks": it was composed by Manaka Takaoka, who would later become the main composer in "Breath of the Wild". Aparently "Spirit Tracks" was her first work in the series, and her work on that game impressed Koji Kondo and Hajime Wakai so much, they gave her the reigns of the next home console entry (she didn't join "Skyward Sword" because that game was very far into development when she finished her work on ST, so it had to be the next game after that one).
She did amazing for the Spirit Tracks soundtrack
No wonder the Dark Train and Guardian themes give me the same vibes-
yes, in collaboration with toru minegishi and asuka ota. i think toru minegishi was the main composer.
thank you for that knowledge :) spirit tracks was my first and favorite game 💙
do you have a source for this? would love to read it
It took me 5 HOURS to get the heart container at the bow mini game, in my rage I wrote 'I HATE THIS PLACE' with an arrow pointing at the hut
The mental image of link writing that
I know exactly what kind of kid you were 🤣
@@Devon.with.an.i Plot twist. He got that heart container last week :)
The horseback bow minigame in OOT is also just pure agony due to the moving horse and clunky aiming controls
@@kiajd338 You're not to far off actually...
The scene with Link and Zelda holding hands... The subtext in it is so strong. First, they grab each other's hands, then after a brief moment, Link's grip becomes tighter. As if he had the thought: "After all this time as a spirit, she's finally here, in person." This is the moment both of them deserved for their hardships... and they share it in one of the best written, yet so simple ZeLink scenes ever.
weirdly enough more then Skyward Sword which people banked on WAS the origin of zelda and Link falling in love with each other but.. never embracing it, maybe of Nintendo or Miyamoto being scared of the reaction?
I'd like to put forward Linda as their couple name.
The love was so strong and true in spirit tracks! Even in the title screen you can see how much they love each other!
Istg I just recently started st out of boredom, my expectations were NOT high but I ended up loving it so so much, I think it might be one of my favourite zelda games by now it's so underrated
"A sword wields no strenght,Unless the hand that holds it has courage"
Guess that just shows how much Linebeck grew through Phantom Hourglass
THANK YOU for talking about these games. these two zelda games are so nostalgic for me and i rarely see anyone talk about them in detail.
They are just so scorned and it annoys me. I remember a time where I was looked down upon somewhat by other Zelda fans simply for enjoying it.
KingK's video on them covers almost everything I want to say about these games. Can't wait to hear Liam talk about them for another 90 minutes.
Love these games homie. Do they have flaws? Yes. But as KingK said, we will never see Zelda games like this ever again. Even if they are remade they will not be the same. I have these games, and because I love Zelda Lore I am always searching for info about them. Sadly few cover the titles. But I am stoked for this video! Thank you Liam!
@@WasatchWind That's because Zelda "fans" only like OOT lmao
@lufty Dude Phantom Hourglass was my first real game. I still haven’t beaten either :(
spirit tracks' overworld theme is actually my favorite overworld theme in the entire zelda franchise!
It's one of the leading themes in the 25th Annicersary Orchestra, for good reason! It would be dope if it was reused in future Zelda games. There are so many good themes across multiple games; it is a shame this particular masterpiece is stuck in a single title, one of the least popular of the series even ^^'
The Smash remix is awesome lol, Full Steam Ahead is great
Ye
Mine too
And the remix used in the final boss fight is just *chefs kiss*.
I love that for the "Bellum-beck" fight you can counter his spin attack with the greatspin attack
a normal, well-timed spin attack can counter too i think, it's been a while since i played it
Yes I can confirm that a normal spin attack counters his own great spin attack, I just recently finished Phantom Hourglass again.
I feel like all of Spirit Track's overworld issues could've been solved by just letting the train go faster
it can go faster
@@deathtaco4095why not even faster than that?
@@deodorantcan1200 2 fast
@@deathtaco40953 fast
@@deathtaco40954 fast
A fun headcannon I like to go by is how old Niko let's Spirit Tracks Link live in his house because he reminds him so much of Wind Waker Link. This would mean he would also know this new Link was destined for greatness one day since fate is a driving factor in this world. Low key heartwarming.
Which may also mean he's the first non-Zora to live through two incarnations of the Hero and Hylia.
Yeah it’s always like… is ST Link WW/PH Link’s descendent?? But ST Zelda is canonically Tetra’s granddaughter-not descendent, granddaughter.
Did…WW Link and Tetra never get together? Or…are ST Zelda&Link…cousins. (Even if ST Link is directly descended fro Aryll instead it does NOT fix the Incest Issue unless Tetra and Link never had a kid together.)
@@connordarvall8482 And probably Gramps in ALBW as he's implied to be the Link from ALTTP.
@@anonymousfellow8879 No ST Link and Zelda are clearly unrelated it’d make that little scene at the end a little ewy. It’s actually hinted that WW Link isn’t directly related to WW Link considering that while Niko mentions WW Link he never mentions them being related the shield he gives you he states belonged to an old friend of his but not your grandfather. Personally I think WW Link died early of some tragedy maybe defending the settlers of New Hyrule or of some disease. I think that ST Link is a direct line from Aryll as Link would likely try to bring settlers to the land.
Wait - there’s 100 years in between phantom hourglass and spirit tracks but niko is still alive but tetra and link are presumably dead or something. Is niko like 150 or something?
There's one memory I have fondly from these games. I was at a part where I was looking at a map, with my map on the opposite screen. As a kid, I tried for HOURS to figure out what the heck I was supposed to do. Eventually I got fed up and closed my DS for the night. In the morning I opened it, and the little jingle went off saying I got something right. I was confused until I finally realized: I had to 'press' the maps together.
Young me was angry for a bit, but present me loves that idea.
Me too buddy, I'm sure a lot of us never really "solved" the puzzle but gave up and closed our DS only to come back and have it be solved lol
I played this years after it came out, on a 2DS. Let's just say it still took me a while to figure out what happened after I flipped the sleep switch back 😂
Thats so awesome that other Phantom hourglass⌛ players solved that exact same puzzle by sheer luck! I seriously got stuck there for months, then again I was a dumb kid.
For me, I’m pretty the clue I needed to solve that puzzle was when I noticed the map wasn’t an exact 1-to-1 of my map, being that it was flipped. I had played DS puzzle-type games that used such a ‘stamp’ mechanic in the past, so while it was a roadblock, it wasn’t fatal. Now that damn flute on the other hand… THAT pissed me off. Full stopped my progression when they started including songs with gaps in the notes
Although I prefer PH over ST, I gotta credit ST for never having a point where something took me so long to figure out that I had to pause the game, while in PH it happened 3 times.
One of them was again, the pressing of the symbol. I ended up just watching a tutorial on TH-cam for this.
The other two ones were clearing the path to the other side of the house on cannon island. And lastly the secret refuge on Molida. This one took me over a YEAR. Because I misinterpreted the clue and always tried to dig at the wrong spot
A proper remake of these two in the style of Windwaker would soooo hype
Much would be missed from a different control scheme
The reason to play the flute again at the end of Spirit Tracks is because the transition from the flute to the final boss phase music is EPIC. The final phase music is not ominous, it's triumphant, like the last-gym-leader-pokemon theme from pokemon gen 5, and it may be the best music/gameplay integration in the series
YES! Additionally, the flute music isn’t just some random song. It’s part of the song you hear while you drive the train in the overworld, and more importantly: it’s the song from the title card, what you hear when you boot up the game. It’s the old trope of “when the main theme starts playing it’s the hero’s time to shine”, only it’s not simply playing in the background. Zelda and Link, the two you the player have spent the most time with in this game, are playing it for themselves, with all of the Sages (who’ve taught you how to play that flute along the way) joining in to make an orchestral piece that makes an opening in the villain’s defenses. It is indeed triumphant because all of this leads into the final stand as Zelda and Link work together against the odds, just as they have since the beginning act of the game.
God I love Spirit Tracks.
Phantom Hourglass was my first ever Zelda game, and, despite its flaws, Spirit Tracks is one of my favourite top-down Zelda games ever. I care about both of these games a lot, so it's great to finally see a video about them that doesn't stop at "touch screen = bad" or endless rants about the repeated visits to their respective main dungeons. Yet another amazing video, you're easily my favourite source of Zelda videos on this entire site!
ST is TOP tier. ST’s level of charm is almost unmatched. Blowing the flute, playing as zelda, hooting the train, THE TOUCH CONTROLS. The randomest things that I’m so obsessed with. It’s one of the few 2D Zelda’s I want to keep replaying.
I got the game a few years ago and have beat it 3 or 4 times
SAME ,
You've summed up my exact thoughts. Right down to Phantom Hourglass also being my first Zelda game.
@@Monado. If my memory isn't failing me, which it very well could be, Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks were my 2nd and 3rd Zelda games respectively.
The first one was the GameCube version of Ocarina of Time, specifically the Original + Master Quest version, not the one that came with the NES games and Majora's Mask.
Yes, this means that I played those two games right before I played Wind Waker.
Spirit Tracks has to be one of the most underrated entries in the franchise imo
I like that it presents a Hyrule in a completely new age. Every single Hyrule but this one is just medieval and nothing wavering from that.
Salami
@@WasatchWind I would like to see a game that take place in one of the technology advanced era of Hyrule rather than only seeing the advanced technology left behind by a long lost civilisation.
it's underrated because it's just tediousness and backtracking there's a good story, characters and gameplay in there but it's really ruined by those 2 flaws
@@nascour5991 Phantom Hourglass had a much worse case of backtracking and yet it is looked back on more fondly than Spirit Tracks.
Nintendo games have some great "they thought of that?!" moments like the heart piece in the Ghost Ship. One of my favorites is that Pokemon games that give you a birthday cake on your birthday all have special code if your birthday happens to be February 29th: in non-leap years, Nurse Joy will still give you the cake on March 1st, with special text acknowledging that "it's not really your birthday, but I wanted you to have this anyway!"
That's so sweet! 😍😭
I'll never forget the fact that I had almost all of the golden ship parts then I permanently softlocked my save file
How did you softlock it?
@@Idonthaveausernameyet did an out of bounds glitch, then went into another area behind a fence, then the game saved and I was stuck in that fenced area
I had gotten to the final sequence in spirit tracks after otherwise reaching 100% completion, golden train and all, when I decided to save and fully quit which I hadn’t done for maybe a week at that point instead just putting the DS to sleep. Discovered that it failed to save properly and I lost that whole week's progress, and additional attempts to save also failed. Most hours I’ve ever put into a game I didn’t finish.
@@codyt8541 Guessing it was the one where you do the great spin attack at the Temple of the Ocean King and go south to Oshus' house?
Phantom Hourglass was my first Zelda game. So having the dungeons and overall difficulty be a lot easier was perfect for a newcomer and I felt incredibly satisfied beating the game
Oh yes, it needs a title like this from time to time. Not aimed at the main playerbase who wants the most challenging adventure, but easy gameplay to invite new players to the franchise.
My first Zelda game was Minish Cap and in my opinion, it does a really good job in this.
PH and ST were also my first LOZ games, so for a while, they were all I ever knew of the series. Keep in mind that I was young at the time, and I wasn't looking things up online, so I had to basically beat the games all on my own. I was stumped for a long time by the "close your DS" puzzle in the temple of the ocean king, then I solved it by accident, then I forgot what I did, and it took me another few years on subsequent playthroughs before I thought to look it up online. Truly a formative experience.
I always considered Skyward Sword to be a cousin to these two. A sort of land sea and sky trilogy. Control quirks, unlocking portions of the map through going back to a main temple, unconventional overworld, using treasures as upgrade resources. Just a few parallels that make it a kind of unofficial 3rd entry in my eyes
Ghirahim’s plan to use Zelda’s divinity to resurrect Demise is also almost the exact same as Cole using Zelda’s divine body to resurrect Malladus
Skyward Sword's development WAS pretty close to Spirit Tracks - and story-wise there are undeniable parallels that make them feel very close to one another
@@kaialone Wasn't that beetle item (The flying weapon, not the bug, I can't recall its name) in Skyward Sword inspired by the boomerang in the DS games?
@@JediWilli and don't forget Cole and ghirahim also kill by their master.
I mean in truth the adult timeline really is the original continuation nexus caper to skyward sword origin so iam not shocked of the similarity
But now BOTW 2 is taking the whole sky thing to the next level to skyward sword
And we’ll what do you know look at that
Skyward sword sky MC sky Unified timeline
Twilight princess sky and now BOTW 2 sky CHILD TIMELINE split 1?!!!!!!!!
Spirit tracks is one of my favourite Zelda games, possibly my second favourite. Never understood why it’s so underrated
It is my favorite belief me people only hate it bc it’s on the ds
IT'S BECAUSE OF THE FLUTE.
Yesss, love to see the Zelda DS games talked about.
11:43 That puzzle broke my brain as a child, I remember thinking I missed an item and left the dungeon only to come up with nothing. Did the whole dungeon again and after tapping every pixel on my screen I closed my DS out of frustration. Imagine my surprise when I opened it again.
(I also slowly drew that entire whale island on my empty map because my English vocabulary was lacking to say the least. Took quite some time.)
Ha ha I did the same thing, got tired with the puzzle, closed my DS, only to find that the puzzle was solved xD
I have the same experience for both. I literally did the Temple of the Ocean King over and over and went around the islands to see if I hadn't missed anything. One fateful day in my grandma's house I stares at the map long but had to close the DS to go eat. When I came back, you can't imagine my surprise... excellent puzzle.
I played this one on my 2ds, I had to look up the answer and freaked out for a minute. Putting it in sleep mode did the trick though thankfully.
I faced the same problem, except that in my case I never resolve the puzzle myself. My brother spell it to me. Although I didn't want it.
I also drew the map by walking along the border :D
Im personally rather meh on Phantom Hourglass (specially compared to Spirit Trakcs), but no one can deny Captain Linebeck is one of the best characters in the whole franchise
I think that this is kind of the core of what people like me love about Toon Zelda - the characters feel very distinct and less rote from the rest of the series.
I remember playing it as a kid and imagining a much grander version of it with the 3D perspective from some bosses, but still stylus controlled. The chances of that happening however for just the tiny slice of people who loved the stylus controls is sadly for me, essentially zero.
idk how you can be meh on ph but that's ur opinion I guess, I love the openness of the world and the story. Most of the dungeons being generic and easy, walking or running as link with the stylus and the game not letting u hear the best of the ost for most of the game are the only real drawbacks to me. Meanwhile ST is just tediousness and backtracking the game but also with zelda.
Oh he's fantastic and very memorable. It helps that he has an amazing theme and is also technically the final boss. But even beyond that he's funny and really involved in the plot and is just given a lot of time to develop.
Spirit Tracks sucks compared to Phantom Hourglass
@@jlchips yeah i love the bosses, and dungeons in st but pretty much all the rest of the game is just so tedious and boring. The story is great too but if I wanna re-experience that i can always use youtube
I always felt like the repetition of the Temple of the Ocean King was overstated. You only have to go there four times -- three if you're particularly speedy on your third visit -- and each time you return you have new items that allow you to solve the floors you've seen before in new, quicker ways. I never really felt like it overstayed its welcome, since the parts you repeat are freshened up with new perspectives and different puzzle solutions as you gain more tools, and near the end you'll be breezing through the earlier floors like nothing.
Yes, the dungeon is pretty clever so even if your in the same floor, the solutions change a lot with the new items you got.
It's not that bad imo, and i loved re-doing things in a new way most of the time.
I think it’s because the experience was always so unenjoyable and stressful. I always dreaded when it was time to go back and I do feel like it dinged the game as a whole quite a bit for me.
@@mmullins2983 Yeah. People are people i guess. I was actually excited to see how the same rooms could be done in new and different ways because i always was amazed to see how cleverly designs they were.
But the timer specially for some can be enough to stress a little too much for a dumb mini-dungeon on an DS Zelda game
Weren’t you able to unlock shortcut portals as well? If I remember, they fast forwarded your hourglass to how long it took you to reach that point.
I do remember feeling like you had to go through the same floors multiple times though.
@@redking36 You were able to unlock a shortcut-portal to the middle-gate. And yes it did drain your hourglass to your best time reaching that gate, which only further encouraged optimizing your first part to better be able to run the second half.
I’d say Bellum has to be one of the most creepiest Zelda villain in the series. It’s terrifying how travelers or pirates got their life force sucked away and wasted away to their skeletal remains, and bellum can possess people and create new enemies. It doesn’t seem somewhat scary due to the more colorful art style, and funny dialogue. It honestly makes me wonder if Phantom Hourglass had a darker tone of atmosphere and serious dialogue?
Oh it definitely does. And it wasn’t just greedy treasure hunters that got targeted by the Malice Parasite: Molida Island lost ALL of its male population save the Wayfarer (who abandoned his wife and son to try and fuck a mermaid-FUCK that guy.) and Romano (who never ventures off Molida Island). Ember Island literally had ALL of its population murdered by Bellum except Astrid since Astrid was hidden away.
The world of WW was slowly dying because what little fish evolved to survive the Great Sea post-Flood had long been overfished…by two terrifyingly small human settlements that had absolutely NO room to expand. Hell. They were probably all inbred as well because of the lack of space. Sure the Great Deku Tree tried to expand the islands via mangroves for generations…but those saplings never survived. They all died and became dust LONG before the Koroks actually stuck by their most recent plantings (and needed Link to deliver water from Forest Haven to revive them. But let’s face it: that’s just a bandaid on the problem. The gods were never going to allow GDT’s plan to succeed; Ganondorf ironically realized the exact same problem only he planned to repopulate Sunken Hyrule instead.)
WW’s Brink of Extinction is nearly subtext-you get a throwaway line from GDT and Ganondorf each + the No Fish (aside from mermen and sea monsters.)
But PH’s Crisis? Even if you don’t pay attention to Quest Dialogue or talk to NPCs you literally can’t ignore how desperate the Bellum Situation has become by the time Link arrives
I also love just how powerful they made it. Like, as far as main Zelda villains go, this one is just a random fish, compared to your average demon king (Spirit Tracks had the opportunity to do something unique here too, but unfortunately, they just said 'make it Ganon, but reskinned'). So it remains the only one to be its own kind of entity, yet I'd completely believe it if you told me it can stand up to Ganon. First, you wack its mouth-eye a lot, to which it possesses the ghost ship and has you hurling bombs, and it STILL refuses to die. Even with the power of the spirit of time and courage on your side, it's not a fair fight for you. The game does an excellent job at selling the threat this monster poses and justifies its position as a final boss effortlessly. Which is something it ultimately had to do, lest all of that build-up of hyping Bellum up as this insanely scary, feral beast goes up in smoke. All of this to say, there's some smart people working at Nintendo, but we knew that already, didn't we?
@@m.s.5370 Spirit Tracks definitely did something unique.
Having to go through the entire game knowing the villains hold Zelda's body and try to have a demon overlord possess it the entire time?
That's creepy af. Ganon never did something like that, he always was just "hey guys I'm back" and that's it.
Edit : I say demon but he's not even a demon, just an evil spirit. He looks demonic at the end because he absorbed the little demon guy.
@@miwestraveler3986 Well, Ganon did possess Zelda's body before in Twilight princess though, and that game also had her be his captive for some time. I'm not trying to make my favourite Zelda game sound bad, it's just that I wish for it to be the best version of itself that it theoretically could be. And part of that involves making the final boss some kind of monster like Bellum, because that was really creative and also powerful, which proves that they're capable of doing it. That's obviously not to say that I dislike what we were given with Malladus in any way, just that it could've been that much cooler with a different TYPE of monster. That's really all I'm saying.
@@m.s.5370
Oh yeah, I didn't even remember Zelda was possessed in TP.
Still, I think Malledus was really cool, because aside from the fact Red Eyed Zelda is the stuff of nightmares, he basically got the Giygas treatment. Until the very end of the game, you have no idea what he is or how he looks like. Just that he's evil, super strong, and with creepy powers like possessing the guardian phantoms. The kind of thing you _don't_ want around.
Bellum actually had this going for him too, and it actually makes him scarier than his actual look. Some unknown thing that can absorb your lifeforce by possessing an entire temple (and it' phantoms), that's creepy as shit.
Personally, I found him less threatening when I actually saw him.
Honestly, I never really thought about it, but the two are more similar than I thought all things considered.
Can I just say, hearing this music again feels immensely nostalgic.
So true
@@Stampybampy Even just the "in the fields" track from spirit tracks is so good.
I actually remembered all the memories i have had With Phantom Hourglas and I am actually a Bit sad that my copy of the Game broke thus i cannot play it anymore
1:00:48 Actually in Spirit Tracks the "Super Rare" treasures can be gotten in unlimited amounts from Minigames. Regal Rings can be farmed from the optional Mini Dungeon in "Lost at Sea Station" as said dungeon can be repeated as many times as you like. While Alchemy Stones can be gotten from Minigames like the Goron Target Range Minigame in the fire realm. So While there's only a few that always spawn, more can be gotten if you're good at Minigames.
Also easily gotten by cheating the mailbox lottery aha
And you can also obtain from Linebeck side quest and this side quest is also infinite.
@@KellingtonDorkswafer A little bit of time manipulation can hardly be considered cheating :)
@@CrasherHasCrashed depends on the person's view on the matter BUTTTT that's something I won't get in to aha
you can also get regal rings from mini-games. i have gotten two from the sword practice.
I played Spirit Tracks as a kid and was only kind of aware that Phantom Hourglass existed. I really need to play it. To me, it's like a lost prequel to one of the defining games of my childhood.
That’s how I feel about Wind Waker; we had a Wii but not a WiiU and I couldn’t play Wind Waker, but a friend let me borrow PH and ST for my DS
It really bothers me how no one ever mentions the two best parts of a temple of the ocean king. (1)You do end up getting a warp to the lower levels (2) Getting to kill the phantoms is massively satisfying, not only because it makes the temple a breeze but because you get hidden treasure. Phantoms also scared me as a kid so turning th table on them made me beyond happy
I also enjoyed the aspect of ‘getting good’ at the TotOK:
At first the timer is scary.
Then you learn you can beat it.
Next you have plenty of time to spare.
In the end you best the temple with full time on the clock.
My only regret is that I did not see the implications of this as clearly.
That place gave me so much fear as a kid.
I'll have to really play the game now. I was never able to beat it as a kid. I don't think I've ever even made it halfway through despite all the time I remember putting in it.
Good thing I still have Phantom Hourglass and my original DS Lite.
I also have nostalgia for it. It was one of my favorite DS games. And the first Zelda I've ever played.
I ADORE this temple for those reasons, you almost get to form a pseudo-speedrun mentality with it. Learning and adapting based on your items is my favorite aspect of it.
"I want to make a game that's a worthy successor to The Wind Waker." Liam really be scattering the seeds of his future with that line.
There's a lot that I've forgotten about both PH and ST, and a lot that was ultimately forgettable, but almost everything I remember about them was good. the final fights, Linebeck, the bosses, the items, playable Goron(!!!), the whale island, the DS island. To this day I remember liking Byrne's character arc and the complexity of the Tower of Spirits puzzles. Thanks for another great video.
Same. My only real frustrations with ST were:
-that stupid microphone. He’s not wrong about the headache the pinwheel causes, and needing to Keep Time, Slide the Flute, and Blow was just. Horrible. I never got the Sand Lokomo’s song to work, and while playing the flute to defeat Maladus is such a cool idea…I really don’t think the aggravation of the microphone would’ve been worth it
-the warp gates. They did NOT have any Rhyme&Reason I could puzzle out to figure out where the hell I was going…and the Ice Delivery sidequests demanded that you use them (and not get sandwiched between Demon Trains-oh yeah. I’ve been cornered and died that way Plenty of times even with redrawing my route or running to a station to get the Map to reset entirely)
-you don’t get access to the train customization until so LATE in the game. And the needed treasures you’d collected up to that point are very meager. It doesn’t feel worth it. You’re forced to basically sink rupees into minigames that I could never get the hang of to Hopefully get treasures to trade…then try and farm yet MORE rupees. It feels like one big Yanking HAULT to game progression + one big scam. (And watching a youtube letsplay? You NEED a completed set to survive the Train Battle near the end.)
@@anonymousfellow8879 using the first dungeon item on the forest town leaves gives you a lot of low level treasure which sells for 50 a piece. that's how i made my money, or alternatively skipping days for alchemy stones in the postcards.
@@anonymousfellow8879 the other thing i really do not like about the DS games is how rolling can easily cause misinputs when it comes to mobility especially combat. some of the puzzles also had a needless layer of frustration such as using the sand wand for block puzzles when oracle of ages did not require an item to push them ( i want to be clear: the puzzle itself is fine but using the sand wand is not if you ask me).
i also did not like the traveling system in general when escort fetch quests make up the bulk of unlockables. also many sidequest rewards when unlocking the rails did not really offer exclusive rewards outside of rabbits. the sword beams and great spin attack feel underused because they can only be obtained during end game and have the best use in the take em all on challenge when you already have the bow of light.
the only two unlockable locations that contain heart containers or stamp stations are the pirate hideout and the end of the earth station.
furthermore, the treasure system has an element of rng from the chests and apparently the rarity varies on each playthrough.
two strong points in spirit tracks (from a pure gameplay perspective): it has good unlockable locations because of the stations and it has some very good puzzles (in fact some of them do allow for alternate solutions such as floors 15 and 20 in the tower of spirits) bombs also appear to be optional.
what i would change about this game?
-add button controls as an option while not forcing the use of mics.
-restructure the tower of spirits where it follows the legacy of temple of the ocean king (this could also potentially promote more flexible progression) by recontexualizing as you revisit the dungeon instead of entering 6 separate dungeons
-make every item have some utility (sand wand should at least delay enemies from approaching you)
-remove the treasure chest rng
-the train customization should have more differences outside of hearts and cosmetics. (upgrades could include a stronger cannon or faster traveling. once you get the gold set, the other train sets become irrelevant).
-unlocking rails could tie in to that flexible progression and promote more freedom which the game lacks in comparison to phantom hourglass.
I never played Phantom Hourglass so I can only talk about Spirit Tracks but I can't be the only one who thinks the finale of Spirit Tracks is the best finale in the whole Zelda franchise?
The different stages of the final boss that represents the game perfectly, the fight against a controlled Zelda to finally get Malladus out of her body, the demon train, the part to protect Zelda so she has more power to sing the final song with Link so we can hit the weak spot of the demon king and finally the battle with Link and Zelda together. They had this incredible long adventure together and they beat the final boss together feels so satisfying. The music also plays a huge part in this boss fight. I loved it so much to play the Spirit Flute and hearing Zelda singing it really felt like I was there, right now playing this magical instrument joined by all the sages. I just can't describe what I felt it was just such a magical moment. The transition of the music from the duet part to the battle was just so good ❤️
Gosh I loved the final boss sequence at the end of ST, might be my nostalgia talking but honestly if there's a good recording or even maybe an orchestral arrangement of it that I could listen to I'd make everyone I've ever known listen to it
@@big_fat_bin th-cam.com/video/1ZaeluXvHK0/w-d-xo.html
I just think it's really really charming that Spirit Tracks gives your link a choice as to where he'd like to end up, and that it DOES alter the ending. Shortly before the final boss fight Zelda asks you what you plan to do when this is all over. And you can choose to stay an train driver, become a knight, or say I don't know, and it changes if Zelda hears you fighting, your train whistle blowing, or just looking out the window. And I ADORE that. It's so small but I don't think many other Links (If any? I can't remember any.) got that choice.
Spirit tracks needs more love
I will say, the one thing this Zelda EXCEEDS at is bosses oh my god, the bosses are incredible.
Like the fire ice dragon you have to bounce the correct flame into
Or the arrow that has to be facing the top screens perspective
The only thing I hated were those mini-games where you had to beat all the bosses all over again several times without losing too many hearts 😂
Phantom Hourglass was one of the first Zelda games I beat, possibly the first. I spent sooo many hours in that game, just running around and exploring. I was too young to know what "too repetitive" was, and I couldn't care less. I remember feeling so proud each time I took on the main dungeon, improving my time slightly. Ahhh, good memories.
i have never played these two but as an avid zelda music listener i think i'd have to put the overworld theme from spirit tracks as #1. the experience of driving my car on an open empty highway while blasting that song is unmatched
Spirit tracks had me making pan-flutes as a kid, I'll always look back on them with a good sense of nostalgia
It's really nice to see these games getting some love, and hearing anything positive about the Temple of the Ocean King at all. They're some of my favorite games in the franchise, in part because they are so simple - it's easy to pick up and replay them when I'm in the mood for Zelda. Temple of the Ocean King is also one of my favorite dungeons in the whole series oddly enough. I never had a problem with going back into it; I instead had a lot of fun mapping out everything and finding all the shortcuts. Even years later I can still run the first 3 floors in under a minute. I also ran it over and over for ship parts, and because it's just fun to do (for me anyway)
Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks were my first Zelda games. They launched my love of Zelda, my interest in game dev, and ultimately, my desire to have a career as an author.
They are often touted as the worst in the series, but I love the stylus controls, the music, the humor, the atmosphere, and the feeling that I'd never gotten from a game before - the thrill of adventure.
God, Phantom hourglass is so nostalgic to me. the osts have stuck to me after decades
I remember hating the Temple of the Ocean King when I first played Phantom Hourglass. But as I progressed through the game, I found myself breezing through what I once considered a brutal section of the game. So much so, that once I was at the end of the game with nothing else to do, I mapped out and executed a perfect run, finishing the Temple with 25 minutes on my timer. And it was so satisfying, executing that mastery over the game which had frustrated me.
You can still easily earn rare items in spirit tracks. The best being the whip minigame. You can also do the mail gamble for regal rings and alchemy stones. The golden set is not impossible to obtain if u sell a rare item.
IIRC Regal Rings are infinitely obtainable by completing that one station in Ocean Realm with the Phantoms, the one that vaguely references the Phantom Hourglass. It's the Alchemy Stones that were harder to obtain.
@@goopi_eh secret stations. i think you get like 4 alchemy stones in total just from those
I think this might be one of the first videos of yours I've watched. Really well done! I was hooked on all of this. Great script & great delivery!
Thanks so much! Means a lot, absolutely loved your Ocarina of Time video, the BEST video on the game I have ever seen
Linebeck is such an underrated character.
You left off one detail in the items section. In Phantom Hourglass, when you use the grappling hook to connect two enemies and/or pots, the two fly together and annihilate like matter and antimatter. Using the reality-bending rope to cause enemies to fly into each other was incredibly satisfying and I found myself limiting sword usage to enjoy this tool whenever possible.
I'm glad that more and more people give Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks a second look. I have a big soft spot for Spirit Tracks especially. After all, this game was my starting point in the franchise. It was the one game I always took the instruction booklet of to school to read it over and over again. Mostly because I wasn't able to finish it at first and tried to find some secret I probably missed in the booklet. At the time I didn't have a computer or the internet to find a solution for this one puzzle I couldn't figure out. It took me 2 whole years to finally finish the game for the first time and it was absolutly worth it. Spirit Tracks may not be my favorite Zelda-Game nowadays, but I will always admire it for introducing me to my favorite videogame franchise.
One thing I loved about the Temple of the Ocean King was how on reruns for treasure, the game would actually record your best time (or more accurately, how much of your Sands of Hours is left) when you reach the bottom. Even better, once you learned the layout enough, you could run the whole dungeon and, functionally, use 0 seconds in your Sands of Hours. Clever routing and refilling the bar let you get a literal perfect time, and nothing felt as satisfying as being able to pull that off
Phantom Hourglass wasn't just my first Zelda, but it also was the first video game I ever played. I learned to read, specifically so I could play it in elementary school. The Temple of the Ocean King scared me when I was little. Having to skulk around a dusty, seemingly endless temple where the only other signs of life are nigh-unkillable spectral soldiers that can and will kill you on sight is terrifying. I couldn't really describe the feeling I got at the time, but I definitely would say it gave off an eldritch feeling. Just when I think I've gotten to the end, a puzzle solution I previously beaten reveals itself to not be an hourglass, but a symbol of power.
Thanks for covering these games. Interestingly, my second game I ever played was Starfox Adventures. I fondly remember that game, though I was really confused at first why the other Starfox games were so different 🤣
The Demon Train fight and it’s music in Spirit Tracks are my favorite part of that game. It’s such a good theme, I tried learning it on the piano (and still am). Even made a remix of it~
The relationship/gameplay of Zelink and music is what I love so much about Spirit Track that I can forgive all its flaws. One of my most favorite game.
God, Byrne is such a great character. He might actually be my favorite out of the entire franchise
I’m rather surprised you’re lukewarm on the Whip. It’s personally my favorite item in Spirit Tracks. It’s snappy and satisfying in puzzle solving, movement, and combat. Swinging across multiple swing points in a row is one of my favorite things to do in Spirit Tracks, it’s so satisfying.
I loved the minigame with it. Used to grind that for cash
1:26:33 He also has an "island" named after him in Breath of the Wild!!
Hot take, Repeating the floors in Temple of the Ocean King was my favorite part of that dungeon, learning and taking notes is such a great take on temporal gameplay. Even tho objectively the Spirrit Temple is a better dungeon, the fact that the repeat floors didnt return, even tho the return to the same dungeon gimic did, kind of disappointed me.
But then agen, Phantom Hourglass made me a speedrunner, and i enjoyed pushing my time down in the dungeon run, so my record is spending 3 seconds of the hour glass before making it to the end.
i will point out that tower of spirits is more like 6 dungeons instead of just one and tbh that is what i argue was a step backwards from temple of the ocean king. when it comes to single room challenges though and puzzles, that is where tower of spirits succeeds more. believe it or not but tower of spirits does have optional challenges that require you to return later but this only applies to the first 2 parts. honestly, if spirit tracks had more freedom we could have seen the tower of spirits shine more with its restructuring and new puzzle iterations.
phantom hourglass is my favorite zelda. temple of the ocean king gets way too much hate. its actually really good, you can skip the first half of it if you want later, but if you decide to go through it from the start then theres goodies to collect with your new items. its like a metroidvania zelda dungeon, i love it!
I always just replayed all of it at once-best way to get treasure in the first half then ship parts in the second. Plus I wanted to see if I could beat my Warp Time if I ever decided to use it: the fastest I got (well. Collecting Sand and lurking in Safe Zones-the hammer is SO Handy to lure Phantoms within Stabbing Range (and collecting that sweet sweet treasure)) was 28 Seconds I think. 29-31 Seconds was average
True, if I ignored the treasure and just stuck to the shortcuts (and luring phantoms to DIE to stay outa my way) I probably could’ve shaved off idk. 5-10 seconds from that? But where’s the fun in that? I’m returning to Stab Phantoms with my sweetass sword + collecting So Much Treasure
yes, it was always my favourite part of the game because the dungeons are way too easy
@@vladi3862 yeah, thats the one big flaw with the game. the puzzles area actually really fun and engaging, but the difficulty isnt very high. thats another plus for temple of the ocean king!
This is the most mature review of my favorite mainline zelda titles I've seen, I appreciate it because they keep getting overlooked when I find them to be really fun and creative, moreso phantom hourglass but spirit tracks is still awesome. If you wonder what I meant by mature, I mean that you actually talked about them instead of writing them off as different=bad like most online reviewers do.
also side note Phantom Hourglass's 15th anniversary was pretty recent so that's cool
Always warms my heart to see people appreciate Phantom Hourglass. It was the game that brought me into the Zelda series when I was skeptical as a kid. The ending was maybe the first time a game had made me want to cry, heh. Great video Liam!
Spirit Tracks was the first Zelda game I ever owned - and my first ever DS game period. I had watched my dad play Windwaker and I’d played once or twice, but Spirit Tracks was my first time experiencing Zelda first hand. I got Phantom Hourglass not too long after. I didn’t even realize they were connected until literally like last year. I loved the graphics in the games, it’s my favorite Zelda art style. Phantom Hourglass felt darker and scared me as a kid, but I loved Spirit Tracks. I loved trying to sneak Zelda out of the castle. I never beat the game, because my save file got corrupted after I messed around with Action Replay on it (big mistake) but I’d love to try a new play through nowadays when I’d actually know how to play it properly lol.
These 2 games are so charming in a way no one really expected them to be. I love them, even if they're not perfect I just adore talking about their stories and the absolutely stellar gameplay that is unconventional, yes, but it's so smooth I sometimes forget I'm not using button at all.
And I adore how you brought attention to the finale of ST, as is one of my favorite endings in the series, if only by the soundtrack of the final battle alone.
Fantastic analysis, as always!
Phantom Hourglass was my first ever Zelda, beat it at 6 years old, and it's what gave me my love of video games. Later I managed to 100% it, and had a guide for the power gems, but that was it. The bow minigame and Maze island were indeed difficult, but I did those without a guide too. Maze Island took several tries and reloads, but was a fun challenge. Glad someone else can appreciate them too!
Phantom Hourglass was the first Zelda I ever beat by myself. I remember feeling like the coolest kid in the 4th grade when I told my friends about how Linebeck was the final boss
i absolutely loved these games as a kid and it is such a breath of fresh air to see someone covering them and talking about exactly the way i felt when i experienced these games for the first time ever
YES !!! YES !!! FINALLY !!! I was so scared that you would gloss over these two and go straight for the next console or "famous" title, when these two are absolutely amazing and unique experiences !! They have such a unique identity even when taking on Wind Waker's style, and they, along with Wind Waker, form such a perfect trilogy on Hyrule's evolution !
And while I would have obviously prefered one episode for each, I think talking about the two together is a perfect way of approaching them, as they go hand in hand, even if not as much as the Oracle duology
I hold a lot of nostalgia for these games, and while, yes, flawed in a lot of ways, also do so many things that haven't been done in previous games and will likely never return in future ones. I especially think their finales are severely overlooked.
My first step on entering a new dungeon floor was marking down phantom routes, love these games so much
Spirit Tracks has my favourite incarnation of Zelda in the entire series. Unlike every other title, she is a constant presence at your side and you spend the entire game getting to know and cooperating with her to overcome all the many obstacles and perils on your journey. I also love how she's slightly unhinged at times, especially when she's first told about what Cole plans to do with her body. It's not really something you would expect from a Zelda. This is one of the few titles where I can genuinely see her and Link ending up as a couple due to everything they have done together.
I was 19 when Phantom Hourglass came out, and I played it on my DS Lite up at college. I couldn’t put it down! I had loved Wind Waker and the unique controls and hybrid 2D/3D Zelda design really spoke to me. Pretty sure I chewed through it in a single weekend. I had played every game in the series prior, so I was definitely a veteran, but I still really liked the ingenious puzzles and clever item design.
I don't know what it was but I LOVED the Temple of the Ocean King when I played this game. The repetition, getting better, and stronger while navigating the oppressive dungeon was such a unique feeling for Zelda. I had an idea for them to have a similar main dungeon in a Breath of the Wild type game. Having this HUGE challenging area that you need to revisit for loot and main objectives would work so much better in a game like that and would be cool to see return!
I ADORED phantom hourglass as a kid. The puzzles were quite frustrating but just as rewarding. Thanks for this trip down memory lane :)
Phantom Hourglass was actually the first Zelda game that I ever played as a kid. I still love it to this day, but unfortunately my DS touch screen doesn't work as well as it used to. I really like how Ocean King is actually very similar to Koholint Island in Link's Awakening, a dream created by the wind fish while the Ocean King created a dream of a vast ocean. This might not actually be the case, but it's cool to think about.
Everyone says they love Zelda being playable in Spirit Tracks even though he is already the main character of every Zelda game.
Personally I really enjoyed the temple of the ocean king as a kid. it was really fun to narrow down and refine my route
Phantom hourglass and spirit tracks on the DS lite were some of the first real adventure games I ever played, love those games. Love all Zelda games!
So glad I found your channel and that you just covered these games. They were my intro to Zelda and I think I was the target audience of new casual games at the time. Great memories you have reminded me of.
Spirit Tracks is one of my favorite handheld entries in the series and gave me a love for the pan flute so seeing an hour and a half long video about it and Phantom Hourglass was a nice surprise to wake up to!
Spirit tracks was my first ever zelda game and i cant thank you enough for making these videos, i hope more people get to experience those games as i did as a child and even tho of all their faults experience two great zelda games
This video has brought so many memories I had when playing these games, specially Phantom Hourglass. This was the first zelda game i've ever played and i have so much memories with it, it has a very special place in my heart and even tho is not perfect, i'd always consider it one of my fav zelda games. Thank you so much for making this video and making me feel less alone about less alone about loving this game
This was a really fun watch of your in-depth look and takes on the two DS Zelda games! Happy to see more people talk about these games, as Phantom Hourglass was the one that got me into the series
Watching these two games being played again is like unlocking a core memory. So many good times with these games
Smooooool correction for 1:31:00 - The last surviving Dark Train is given complete freedom to go anywhere on the map, randomly like its blue and red counterpart. It does so at a speed equal to your Tear of Light Whistle speed ( approx. 6 times your overworld top speed! ), but will only attempt to chase you if you enter its former territory.
Additional note since i'm likely one of the only few to know that: in the game's memory, there are speeds set for all kinds of situation for your train and dark trains. When it comes to the purple dark train, it has 2 complete sets of speeds, one used specifically when it detects you. Both sets have identical speed stats however, but it seems that earlier in development, those trains could have behaved differently once they see you, like going faster and becoming even more dangerous... at least memory cheat codes can achieve that.
imagine if it started to build speed until it got as fast as dark realm trains
Now that's cool. Is there any footage of those memory cheat codes somewhere?
@@skyguysZ Not as of yet... i'm supposed to record and document them eventually, if only i had more free time.
I am so glad to have seen this video! I played these 2 games growing up, they were the first Zelda games I'd played and am just now playing Wind Waker as research for making a sailing exploration game! I never beat Spirit Tracks, so it was awesome seeing that finale section!
I love that all of your references land immediately for me, you're great at bringing back nostalgia for everyone. Love your videos, keep doing what you're doing!!
Fun fact: Did you know that in Phantom Hourglass, if you have the tornado ability where you spin three times with your sword, in the final fight, when Libeck does his tornado move, quickly do yours and you’ll clash with him stopping the attack immediately. But you do have to fight him to see who wins the clash.
I know PH & SS are sequels to Wind Waker which is extremely rare in the Zelda series but I would do anything for a full console release sequel of WW - perhaps another adventure with Link and the pirates or perhaps them first finding New Hyrule?
Yes, exactly. I'd love something where Link and Tetra are both playable - like the multiplayer system in Lego games. That way Link could finally have a friend along for his adventure. It would have tons of fun new gameplay opportunities, while at the same time allowing for more opportunities to develop their characters.
Man I love your video’s !
They bring me great joy!!!
Thank you for making videos :)
Came across this video while looking for the tears of light theme from Spirit Tracks and I gotta say I really enjoyed watching it, the nostalgia hit hard
The second zelda games I ever played, were Phantom hourglass and spirit tracks, right after my very early exposure to ocarina of time. These games meant so much to me, and while I never learned truly what most people expected from a mainline game until twilight princess, I still never looked down upon these two DS titles.
They were a massive reason I’m still a zelda fan to this day, and personally, Bellum will always be one of my favourite villains.
The fact someone finally talked about Phantom Hourglass brings me peace
Thanks liam, i caught covid yesterday and been warching all your zelda videos straight trhough and this is my favourite one. It helps! Keep it up!
I have been waiting for someone to give a good, genuine video essay about these games ever since I played them as a kid. I feel like people really overlook them, and that is a shame. Thank you for making this video, Liam. I can't wait to hear what you have to say about The Minish Cap as well!
I like both games quite a lot, but I tend to think back on Phantom Hourglass more fondly more often. I love the speedrunner approach to the temple of the ocean king quite a lot. As for Spirit Tracks, I remember having a really bad time with the spirit flute, so much so for the final song that I distinctly remember spending almost half an hour trying to get it to register, it completely killed my mood at the end, and I was relieved it was over for what are mostly the wrong reasons.
The whole Zelda series is dear to me and I love your videos covering them. I didn't realize how much nostalgia I had for these games. They're the only Zelda games I grew up with that I haven't played again since I was a kid and this brought back so many memories of my childhood. I remember really enjoying the cutscene on the ghost ship with linebeck and starting several new games just to get to that part again.
Such an amazing video for games that hold a small place in my heart.
You're absolutely right, it reminds me about simpler times and makes me very nostalgic (even if I played the games quite recently).
Phantom hourglass and Spirit Tracks are actually amazing games
I love these games so much, I'm not even nostalgic for these since I was in my early 20s when I played them, my nostalgic one is Minish Cap. But these 2 have a very special place in my heart, they're so charming, they're some of the best games on the DS library, yes they have flaws but I think their charm outshines them.
Thank you ❤ i love phantom hourglass, one of my most heart bounded games. I really played that game with wide opened eyes.
Spirit Tracks was the first Zelda game I ever owned (While my brother got Phantom Hourglass). That game still holds a special place in my heart, and it is my favorite Zelda game! Thank you for doing this video! Also seeing so many people in the comments speaking so highly of both games just makes me smile so much!!
Spirit tracks is a jewel. I replayed that ending multiple times 💜
For all that I love of the DS games, I've always hungered for a console sequel to Wind Waker.
It could go between Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks, telling the story of Link and Tetra discovering New Hyrule and having an adventure there.
The game could be centered around multiplayer, in a way that hasn't been implemented in Zelda before. Link and Tetra could be on the adventure together - not in broken up, four swords style levels, but in a classic Zelda format.
When not playing with another person, the character you aren't playing as would be computer controlled (basically I want the system used in Lego games.)
I think it is regrettable that Link is always alone on his adventures, even when it doesn't make sense. It would make for many opportunities for character interaction between him and Tetra, aging them up a bit for this game and perhaps showing a budding romance.
This is the kind of thing I've wanted the series to focus on ever since I played Wind Waker and saw its interesting takes on the characters. I want more of this. I want to see interesting deeper stories and character motivations.
I feel sad though because I've developed such a strong, strong desire for a game that will in all likelihood never exist. Nintendo has little interest in fleshing out the Zelda timeline, or fleshing out specific incarnations of its characters.
Their commitment to stick to doing new things is commendable, but it leaves so many interesting things to explore by the wayside.
It is this slowly progressing disappointment that has me becoming less and less enthusiastic about the Zelda series. I am realizing that it will likely be more "the Breath of the Wild series" than classic Zelda as time goes by.
I will lament what has been left in the past.
I mean, Spirit Tracks kind of does that. Having Zelda as an active partner in the adventure is the main draw of the game.
@@Rihcterwilker But I'm just saying to double down on it. Don't have her be a spirit, but her tangible self.
And also I just really want Tetra back lol.
Thank you for talking about these great games! They were my first entries in the Zelda series and I love them both. That said, I was quite disapointed when I realized in other games that we couldn't write notes on the map.
I know this is a year old, but I found this video today! And you pretty much encapsulated what I love about Spirit Tracks. I wasn't able to grow up with any of the Zelda games but Spirit Tracks is that one that manages to squeeze itself into my teen life before I graduated high school and by god it was so fun. It had its flaws but it was such a treat to experience this precious game.
These games are so nostalgic for me. I remember buying Phantom Hourglass alongside my DS Lite all those years ago, not knowing the amazing world that awaited me...