Sam Matterface & Martin Keown LOCK HORNS Over The Laws Of Football During HUGE VAR DEBATE! 🔥
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2023
- As the VAR debates continue, talkSPORT's Sam Matterface and Martin Keown lock horns over football laws.
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Sam Matterface talks way too much, no one is tuning in to listen to his opinion, such an irritant.
Sam Twatterface
Cancel Simon Jordan. What a hypocrite
The laws are just a complete clusterfuck.. they need to be simplified
The laws were simple, various body’s have tinkered with them to such an extent that now even the referees don’t know the rules,
@@davidc9171yh so how is var going to work if we have clueless people using
Amen to that.
Too much is left to interpretation these days and it needs to be made black and white.
@neovarleydownes9109 quite often, when they've tried simplifying rules or making it more 'black and white', pundits and other 'football people' spend their time whinging about officials not using their commonsense.
When the rules are clear and 'set in stone', they whinge there is no flexibility or room for interpretation.
When the rules are loosened to allow a degree of interpretation, they whinge that there is inconsistency.
The problem is a lot of the pundits and 'football people' talk a lot of contradictory crap, change their minds daily on what they actually want, and appear (as Keown did here) to not have even read the rules.
Simon said 'I doubt it' in exactly the same way as Louie Spence. Now I think about it,I've never seen them in the same room together.
Thats hilarious...
Matterface: It was given because the ref deemed it deliberate
Keown: Was Gordon's deliberate?
Matterface: I'm not the referee
Bring Jim back, please.
Jim would have just looked over to his big brother, Simon
Was it just me or was Matterface pretty disrespectful of Keown?
@@robbob1436 Very disrespectful. He can dish it out, and asks open questions like Jim does but he then interrupts and moves the goalposts to mug off the interviewee. Nasty stuff.
@@robbob1436He fancies himself for some obscure reason
How did this guy ever get with Natalie Saywer? I'll never understand women.
We have defenders running with their HANDS BEHIND THEIR BACKS because they're afraid of giving away a handball.
*Keown is right* This is ridiculous. How have we allowed this to happen in football??
This has happened for years
@@kanelfc98bout time clubs took a stand.
All defenders except for Romero
yea the last 3 season@@kanelfc98 but why do you think it's happening? Because ref's aren't using common sense
Keown doesn’t make sense most of the time he doesn’t like criticizing Arteta
Keown spot on. Bit of a lottery depending on who's officiating on the day.
Sam, Sam, Sam, he says the Arsenal pen vs Spurs was a penalty, and adds “especially if [the ball] is going in the goal” but a month ago, has said it was no penalty for United versus Spurs, despite the fact that it was a shot on goal by Garnacho which hit Romero’s hand, which was stretched in front of him, and went wide for a corner. “Definitely not a penalty for me” we’re his words on his weekly TalkSPORT podcast, on which they do their equivalent of Sky’s “Ref Watch” segment.
That's Sam for ya .
You mean Martin?
@@iftycent No, Sam, because he said it.
This is why any handball in the box has to be a penalty- consistency and make it as simple as possible for the morons and this taking out the pot luck aspect
Simon Jordan been spewing garbage all day today, looks like he's getting too convinced by himself
I commented yesterday. He thinks he’s right about everything
@@GIBBO4182And when he’s wrong he’ll never hold his hands up.
Simon Jordan talks a lot
❤👍👍👍
Martin is the only man talking sense here, I couldn't agree with him more. We are now in VAR's fifth year and it has become consistently worse. Dedicated VAR guys and a prescribed terminology with regards to the offence under review, not all this great job mate and self congratulating nonsense. This current crop of clowns aren't fit for purpose.
13:23 Keown finally fighting back 😂😤😤 gwaaan Martin
Yeah he really showed them by not knowing what a handball offense is 😂
@@nickchivers9029 I'm pretty sure Martin is right, in the build up the ball cannot touch a hand.
before they started their debate on that. Sam wanted the same laws fore EPL and UEfA. But then during the "handball" debate. He is fine with it being subjective. Which is the exact opposite of what he was taking about before. The laws need to be the same and applied the same everywhere. @@stevenicol1
@@eiler1987refs and people and fa and premier league are too arrogant to change anything
@@stevenicol1 not really. Martin simply has a strong opinion on rules he doesn't appear to have read.
The Gordon handball was deemed accidental. Not unreasonably, as his hand knocked the ball towards the touchline as he recovered from the challenge, he then managed to keep it in with his foot.
However as it was deemed accidental this, according to FA/IFAB rule 12, is only an offence if the player:
"scores in the opponents' goal:
directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental"
Everyone can disagree with people, but you can do it in the right way. I do consistently see, Keown is almost 'picked on' in a really childish playground manner particularly by Simon and his allies. Disagree with the man, but he has vastly more credibility in the game of 'football' than both of them combined. We've all seen this 'tone' instinctively, and we all know what it is and most seem to chose to ignore it. It's sad. To be honest Martin, I hope you stand up one day and just right hook some of these bullies - because when the ultimate line is crossed, and it's man on man - he'd spark them both out before they could blink.
mad you say that, i been thinking this for ages too lol
We all know human interaction is the issue with VAR, notably those who are in charge of interpreting what VAR tells them, we also learned that the non-referees in the VAR room seem to be more competent than those that are supposed to officiate games.
Simon Jordan talks a lot theze days
True. He's getting repetitive and people are finally seeing his contrarian BS and James O Brien lite debating BS, especially when it's footballers he's teeing up on. Take away the once in a lifetime mobile phone boom and upgrade insanity and he's a shop owner who grew too fast, too close too sun and blew it cos he couldn't see the obvious issues many others did.
Think Martin has finally got a point here, especially with the shef United and Everton goals comparison
Simon Jordan is a one trick poney in certain topics, he keeps waffling that all this happened because refs got so many calls wrong, same with the time added on(he never mentions time added on when refs take time to make decisions). VAR happened not just because of the scrutiny of the fans but rather, other sports had clearer standards & processes in rules/decision making.
Keown is absolutely right. The handball rule is ridiculous. How can you control the ball by using your hand and then assist a goal. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Deliberate or not it should not matter. FFS they don’t make it easy for themselves. The only thing that matters or should matter is the action.
Not being able to change your decision after you’ve restarted isn’t a protocol, they are the laws of the game. If the laws are incorrect then they need to be changed.
The referee is in charge of the game, if a massive mistake such as this has been made, the ref should be able to stop the game.
Current laws do not allow this to happen once the game restarts.
@@jamesshipley7604 the Man United versus Brighton game had ENDED, they brought it back to award the penalty decision. It can be done.
@@chrissymc886the law says this: The Laws of the Game do not allow restart decisions (corner kicks, throw-ins etc.) to be changed once play has restarted, so they cannot be reviewed
Also says 10. If play has stopped and been restarted, the referee may not undertake a ‘review’ except for a case of mistaken identity or for a potential sending-off offence relating to violent conduct, spitting, biting or extremely offensive, insulting and/or abusive action(s).
i wonder if Simon is so forgiving to the bankers, who made his life hell in 2008? it is not a mistake, like you have just spilled a cup of tea, it is a deriliction of duty
What a hypocrite Simon is when palace had goal given as a goal kick he wanted a replay lol called the other club cheats. Klopp was a question what he would like to happen with spurs game and said replay. But say that will never happen.
Because he hates liverpool and klopp that why
Simon you blame the media you are the media you’re on TS everyday talking bollix, you write for the daily fail. Nobody expected they would get every single thing right, but the things they get wrong are laughable. It’s either corruption or staggering incompetence. Take your pick
Scratch that... EVERYBODY should expect that they get offsides and onsudes 100% right. It is the single decision that cannot possibly be gotten wrong. When Simon talks about majority of decisions correct where does that come from? Does a decision count as incorrect when? When they publicly apologise? When the media consensus decides? When? What is the Jota red card considered as? Right or wrong decision?
The consistency of " human errors " screams corruption, this lot are taking a leaf out of the Whitehall book. Reward "failure" and promote the most ineffective. The UEA visit has a very bad smell to it all as well.
other countries have a dedicated smaller pool of var officials which seems to work better once they are in the groove.
Unbelievable that the officials were more scared of going against protocol... instead of actually doing what is right for the game and giving the correct decisions..
Wasn't the whole point of VAR to reduce inconsistency and mistakes from officiating, it's ten times worse now. Every week there is at least one huge VAR mistake. At least before the technology came in we would just put bad decisions down to the luck of draw and swings and roundabouts. Now we spend more time debating VAR decisions than we do talking about the game itself - time to get rid!
There were more errors made prior to VAR.
The goal would have been mistakenly called for offside without it regardless.
But I get your intention it needs improvements.
I don't remember so many glaringly obvious mistakes before VAR. How on earth with the ability to watch replays from multiple angle are they still making these mistakes that everyone else can see. Yes there were bad decisions before VAR, but at least football was enjoyable and we moved on from in the moment mistakes. Now it's constantly waiting for VAR to check things and they still get it wrong time after time and since they have the ability to over analyse everything we rightly expect more accountability and accuracy yet it's not provided. @@ryanbarry34
@@ryanbarry34 You cant even celebrate properly anymore. Its ruined the euphoria of the moments. You still get errors all the time but now you get the negative side effects of VAR added on top.
That's just factually untrue. VAR is much better in terms of correct decisions (12% better in 2020) . Even the Díaz goal would have wrongly been given offside without VAR.
@@smartpower6963and Jones would still be on the pitch if not of VAR.
You can make an assist with your hand....Sounds like handball to me 😂
I don't agree with Keown often, but he is right on the handball issue. Matterface contradicts himself by saying Keown doesn't know the rule but then says it depends on whether it's deemed deliberate.
Var isn't the problem the way we use it is, having it is better than not and to go back would be ridiculous, mistakes must be rectified not accepted as common place , that breeds contempt and will make refs more of a target.
So under Matterface's logic, Thierry Henry's handball against Ireland was fine.
How's the VAR technology the problem here?? It's clearly the incompetence of the ones working on it, The VARs are the problem here not the technology itself.. How's this even a conversation
The call was wrong on the pitch as well. It was wrong with or without VAR.
The discussion around the Anthony Gordon handball incident is ludicrous and I'd urge them to look at the incident again.
He didn't keep the ball in play with his hand. It was completely accidental- he kept the ball in play then his hand almost knocked the ball back out of play! The decision to award the goal was completely correct.
Exactly. It was deemed accidental handball, and Gordon didn't immediately score a goal. Keown (and at least half the people in this comment section) are complaining about rules they've clearly never read.
It's only an offence in these circumstances if, according to law 12 of the FA and IFAB rules, the player.....
"Scores in the opponents' goal:
directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper
immediately after the ball has touched their hand/arm, even if accidental"
The explanation is simple. The Var team were watching the Ryder cup.
I thought Sam was the presenter…. Let Simon and Martin talk, stop talking over them and let us enjoy the content. Please 🙏
Martin doesn’t know what he’s talking about. They could eliminate him
@@dannyboy032679or we could listen to guy who played an unbeaten season, won titles and cups, saw a huge see change in club culture, played for his country and saw issues there.....OR we could listen to a mobile shop owner and anons on Internet.
You don't know anyone even close to achieving what Nartin did, it's f**kin tedious listening to MU snd Spurs fans whining about him. His BBC analysis and punditry was A1. What was yours like?
@@dannyboy032679Sam said that keown criticises referees that simply apply the laws... then keown made a mistake by not knowing the correct law yet his point was correct regardless... Referees are not criticised for applying the law, they are criticised for their own, subjective choices, which keown said as a starting argument. So even though Sam knew the damn law he was still wrong... because keown gave him 2 examples where the referee reacted differently and subjectively.
three people talking at the same time is very frustrating
Simon Jordan how old iz he
"But what will we be debating if VAR comes in and all the decisions are correct?" Those were the days
Matterface says that var don't get things wrong every week......... erm yes they do every single week there is something wrong with var but the media only talk about it when it involves the so called big six teams every time it happens to villa or West ham or palace and nothing about it in the media the second it involves a big 6 club the media jump on it. Media need to realise villa and Newcastle are in that big 6 now
If them clubs took action they wouldnt be in this mess it not liverpool they are only team to challenge decisions
Pffffffff.
Liverpool will do nothing except whine in a nasal Jamie Carragher voice for a bit, right up until there's a VAR mistake that goes in Liverpool's favour. Then they'll go conspicuously silent, and Klopp will give the press a load of Klopptrap about how he, "didn't really see the incident"
@@BaronSpamedi like every manger but this something we never seen before a goal onside ruled off because 4 people can't see a flag 🤔
Are you kidding?
Have you never seen Maradonna's Hand of God Goal?
The Croatian player Simunic once received three yellow cards in a match.
Absolute whoppers have happened throughout footballing history.
This particular incident was caused by imprecise communication. Its actually really easy to solve.
Im cured of Matterface. Keown, sadly brings up two handbalks that had different outcomes Matterface does EXACTLY what PGMOL does and hides behind rules...whilst also scriking. Its like James O Brien
You completely missed the point here, there is nothing wrong with the law its the matter of subjectivity and interpretation that the PGMOL have fail in its consistency which Matterface (someone I quite detest) did prove that point of PGMOL's inconsistencies and incompetence with both examples and not the fault of rules. Keown, like you failed to separate the laws, the technology and the people interpreting them.
@@jun3078handball is handball offside is yes or no but because they wasn't watching they don't see the flag
Here they go again, pivoting to the rules 🤦🏻♂️ FFS IT IS THE BRITISH REFEREES!! THEY ARE INCOMPETENT…END OF!
They protect the refs no matter what
Sam and Simon: "but Martin, It cant just be your opinion, you have to critique referees using the actual RULES of the game"
Martin: *Proves them wrong using the actual rules of the game*
Sam and Simon: "Yeah.. but.. its subjective though isnt it"
Why do they feel the need to talk over Martin all the time?
Key comment “Referees are more concerned with following the code and covering their own backsides than they are the rightful outcome of the game”
It’s a complete clusterfuck
Great debate this from three of the best on this channel
Matterface absolutely schooled Keown here. Pundits love whining about decisions when they dont even understand the rules.
As a football fan, I think this VAR thing should just be scrapped until it is on point.
“Check complete, check complete.” 😂
It's not protocol, it's THE LAWS OF THE GAME. Howard Webb is powerless.
I actually for the first time on talksport really really agree woth Keown here Burge amd Gordons was the same type of assist with a handball yet the refs deemed thenm totally different
🤣🤣 ffs
@@si4632handball is handball lad
when offside is in questions, there is no on field decision, its either off side or not. Just say goal or no goal....
I can’t stand Sam Matterface.
They knew the on field decision was offside. Its being glossed over to allow this to conclude. Otherwise theyll have to accept the possibility of match fixing
Spot on! If they really care about the integrity of thr sport Howard Webb would call a meeting to change the rules so that in such instances once play next stops the right decision is given, and evidence is shown on screen to the stadium. This eliminates the opportunity or potential for match fixing. Otherwise there's a convenient loophole to cancel legitimate goals.
Why are none of them saying this ?
@@Nshottybecause it poor refs team's stop crying we are bigger than everyone and know best
ANYONE SEEN HOWARD WEBB more chance of seeing the invisible man
Sam Matterface is 1,000 times better than Jim White it’s sublime to see him and Simon Jordan stick the boot in here
Silly talk here. TV cameras are so good now and they’ll only get better. Can you imagine the embarrassment on a weekly basis if VARVis scrapped? Everyone watching the telly will know more than the ref on the pitch.
VAR says you can review after a restart of play. But they were not going to have a review. They would have been correcting the mistake they made in misinterpretation of what they just reviewed.
Once again, it’s not VAR. It’s the people using it and the PGMOL putting up so many barriers and pitfalls into the system so that it can’t possibly work. We were told VAR would fix the glaring errors, but because they’ve put in silly rules like “clear and obvious” it means the VAR won’t overrule their mate on the field.
What we need is VAR who are trained referees but who have NOTHING TO DO with the PGMOL or on field officials. They should be the ultimate authority that can overrule the referee no matter what, because they have access to all the information he doesn’t. Simple.
Keown is right here
I think I finally agree with Keown. 🤦🏻♂️
Amazes me how Keown just powers through not even understanding the rule, shows no humility and continues to be strident in his opinion. Such an ass
Simon and Sam really don’t WANT to agree with Martin do they 😂.
In order for var to work the official operating it at the very least has to know what's going on in the game.
Fact is the officials in premier league are under performing.
Jordan just doesn't get it , its not the fact referees make mistakes,
Its the fact that VAR has 4 people who keep everyone waiting without any explanation, and still get it wrong.,
For a ref to interpret an action as deliberate, they would have to be satisfied there was intent. They don't have to prove intent with other fouls*, so why handball? * notwithstanding them having to decide if there was a genuine attempt to play the ball when a pen is awarded to avoid having to red card the offender.
In the NHL I think there are dedicated people that review decisions on the ice in the "war room" in Toronto. Going with the one of the points made by sam
VAR is going nowhere. Nobody would be OK with football making less of an effort to get calls correct. Fans will just have to deal with what the NFL dealt with many years ago: the referees will improve, the rules of the game will become more specific to account for video replay, and every now and again an edge case will come around and create a furore and lead to further rule and procedure changes.
Meanwhile, wrong calls will still be made, but there will be fewer and fewer, and less clubs will feel aggrieved that one call cost them a game or a spot on the table.
"i know the rules"
"It's not in my ear"
"It's on my laptop"
🤣
This discussion between these three is exactly the problem . A VERY DIFFERENCE OF ONE OPINION IS BECAUSE their is NO CLEAR definition of the rules in football ANYMORE !!
The problem is that there is so much money in the game that incorrect decisions can cost clubs, individual etc a huge amount of money, and that unlike rugby or cricket, football is fast-paced and so the pressure is on making decisions in as short a time as possible hence short dialogues between the VAR room and the referee.
But does it help when they are not watching the game
Can’t believe I’m backing Keown…. How on earth can a law be subjective 🤯
Howard Webb himself isnt fit for purpose
Gordon didnt keep it in with his hand, he nearly knocked it out with his hand accidentally, and then kept it in with his feet. Still thought it was handball like personally.
Referees job is to apply the law so Martin wrong to criticise the ref, Sam wipes the floor with him
The difference is, Gordon plays for UAE sports washing
This whole argument can be nullified by one statement.
Laws are absolute. They're not meant to be subjective.
What a load of drivel by Simon and Sam, though I hardly expect anything meaningful from the latter.
Usual suspects and Flash Gordon reference. Nicely done Simon 👍
You don't even know the law Sam
This technology argument is so easy to fix.
Keep goal line tech.
Keep VAR, but. Make it where the onfield ref has to ask the VAR for clarity when he feels he needs it.
At the minute it’s every single thing is scrutinised. They are checking things that don’t need checking. But it needs to be done fast because onfield refs will just ask them about every situation. It should be what it says on the tin. Video Assistant Ref. It should assist.. when asked. Not calling refs back to have another look at something.
Basically rugby then
So then VAR doesn't call back the offside decision on Diaz and the goal is still not given. Doesn't fix anything.
@@TP-pq9xx it wasn’t fixed with VAR either.
@@ryanflood635 Sure but other calls have been
@@TP-pq9xx yeh but at a cost of pissing everyone off every week. Like I said I’m not necessarily for getting rid of it. Just use it properly.
The comparison between VAR in football and Rugby has been made. People ask why Rubgy seems to get it right and football so often doesn't. There is one massive difference in the two sports and that is attitude to the officials. Rugby referees get decisions horribly wrong too but there is a code of conduct around them both on and off the field of play. You will never see a Rugby ref described as incompetent regardless of how bad his mistakes are. On a Rugby pitch if players were foolish enough to complain they will find their team marched back ten yards closer to there own line. Pundits will never go after a Rubgy referee for mistakes the same way that their football counterparts so often do. It's no surprise that those in football who come under the most harsh criticism from TV and newspaper media fail to perform.
Just give managers two challenges per game like in baseball. Solved all problems for baseball.
Matterface gets done at the end. The incidents are the same, he then says "the referee deemed" so it is subjective, and therefore not the right law - you can't just say, the referee believed... then bin VAR - so ridiculous. Petty argument.
Simon hasn’t noticed nothings changed!
Because he doesn't like football
Instead of saying " check complete " why don't they just say , " offside". " onside ".
Just to float an idea. Why don’t we change the offside rule to make it very simple to understand and able to be quickly and easily identified by the linesman. No VAR required
Go on then 😂
Go on then 😂
Well said Simon
I don’t care about referee or VAR decisions, only my players and manager…
Poor Martin, you can sense the confusion coming through the screen...
Transparency and better outcomes - follow rugby’s lead and let the referee see on a large screen and let him talk to the video ref so he can ask questions for clarity and come to the final decision! Why does football make such a meal of this?
Deflection off a body into the hand last year, matterface says isn't a penalty.
Deflection off a body (Maddison) into an arm of Romero, matterface says is a penalty.
You are literally embodying the problem with the law as even you can't make up your mind with situations regarding deflections lmao.
He's also completely wrong about the handball law in the action before a goal. It's only if it's considered accidental, not deliberate. We literally saw this with Berge the other week where they judged it was deliberate and ruled a goal off that he made the assist for.
How is this guy a lead commentator.
So by trying to be more lenient, we are creating more controversy about the calls ref make
The two Romero handballs both having different results is proof of that.
The one and only time I agree with Martin Keown
Martin is right. Look at mission critical things like Air Traffic Control. When they people involved communicate to each other, there is a protocol.
The problem with football is its rules should be treated like the Quran. You can’t just change the rules at will. It should have been frowned upon to a point that anything that is suggested to be changed should be thought of an opinion that will potentially ruin the sport.
I truly believe Sam hates Martin😂. I agree with Sam that a lot of fuel is added to the fire from ex players in pundit roles saying that they know what's best when they don't even know the laws. It was their era that never accepted decisions anyway
The problem is PGMOL not VAR. Other countries get it right, these clowns get even the most clear decisions wrong.
What is Martin doing when hes looking down a cross word? Reading? Tweeting?
The rules are *CRAP* - it is destroying the game !!
Gordon handball didnt keep the ball in it knocked the ball outwards so if it didnt hit his hand in goes straight in front of him
Gordons Alive😂😂
It's a fact that VAR has reduced the amount of human errors and quite substantially. However, many fans do not see football like that. They WANT football to be littered with injustices. These fans see the game purely from an entertainment perspective. A bit like the Van Damme fight vs Tong Po when the gloves are coated in broken glass. Is it fair or right? No. Is it entertaining, yes? Personally, I don't see it like that. You have to diminish injustice if there is a chance to do that and VAR does do that. A bad workman will always blame his tools. The tools aren't the problem. I do feel that the football laws have got ridiculous and some need changing. Again, that isn't a VAR problem, it is a competency issue.
If players stopped doing shady things like facking fauls and being hurts we the public would be more forgiving with the human mistakes. We cannot have football in Portugal without VAR right now it is utterly disgusting how things are right now.
Liverpool did not vote against it
Don't care for Liverpool but that was ridiculous