As a sufferer of severe depression and anxiety, I really appreciate your message of support and help that you gave. Your message choked me up as much as the scene with Moraine and Lan. I'm lucky to have a great support network around, and I just want to say that people should never feel afraid or ashamed to ask for help. Thank you.
I came upon this show and channel by pure luck. And I really like both. Could you point me to where I could watch someone show how drastically the show departs from the books?
@@ComS512if you haven't read the books, why would you care? From what I've seen, most of the channels that specifically focus on book changes are blatant ragebait, and not good content. But like Lauren mentioned, his channel, and others like wotup, naeblis, dusty wheel, road to tar valon, lezbi nerdy, and the way of the leaf, and more all talk about book changes where relevant while remaining mostly positive and/or hopeful.
Lauren, what a national treasure you are to the WOT community. This was well thought out presentation, full of supportive evidence, showing history of past conversations to explain the conclusion to episode 7. Thank you truly for this wonderful work.
Lan's smile - Daniel does such a great job having that little moment where his eyes come up to meet hers, he smiles and he squints a TINY bit. That little nuance of acting, holy shit. I have had a few men in my life who were stoic and didn't always show emotion (most of them that older generation) - that smile right there is the smile they'd do. The actors in this show are something else! Reminds me of that eye twitch Natasha did a few episodes ago. Just those little moments that are SO powerful.
Thanks Lauren, another excellent analysis. I like your theory that Moraine & Siuan had arranged their disagreement in front of Rand. He is now more inclined to trust & believe Moraine. Which we saw when he stopped Lanfear from harming Moraine. It sets up the change in their relationship in future seasons. Anxious to see the finale tomorrow. Praying Falme will be as we all anticipate
Re: Siuan attacking Lan, it seems that she thought they were darkfriends, at least right when she walked up. She said that Moiraine lied to her about being stilled, which I guess implies she thought Moiraine was Black Ajah in that moment. If that's true, then attacking Lan with the OP wouldn't be in violation of the third oath.
I agree. I believe they planned it all out, but at the last moment Suian became concerned that Moraine was possibly a darkfriend. Siuan tried to confirm the claim by commanding Moraine and seeing if she was still bound to the oath rod.
@@leza4453no, but it still allows an AS to use the Power against them as we've seen much later from Elaida... And considering the even under compulsion, they cannot break the 3 oaths, it means that in that moment, she must believe it, by her own free will or not, yet truly believe it. At least if they do remember and go by that piece of lore.
@@leza4453 Third oath is: "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai"
The only problem I had with this episode was how easily the female channelers were able to shield Rand, but after rewatching it a couple of times, I realized that he hasn't trained enough to fully realize his potential. I just can't wait for him to show us what he truly is capable of.
The only thing that angers me is that he looks so underpowered. We've seen Nynaeve release far more power when she couldn't even properly guide it, whereas Rand was always a brute force saidin user.
I thought this for a while too but he’s going to end up doing the largest scale things over the course of the show, whereas Nynaeve spiked early but won’t have nearly as many moments to be OP. I’m kind of glad we are getting a slow burn with his abilities
power vs experience, rand has power but no experience, the female channelers have more experience thats why they could shield him, Lanfear as more power and experience than all aes sedai for example, thats why she took down Suian.
Absolutely. We've seen Nynaeve have her weaves sliced by Liandrin and be shielded the same way -- it is ignorance/inexperience, not lack of power. I actually think this might work out well for the future -- now that Rand has been shielded, he will be looking to learn how to break it.
@@jamess.2491 A couple of episodes ago we got the scene with Logain coaching Rand on how to properly seize control of saidin. Rand went from embracing with the strands of tainted power around him that we usually see to a ball of pure glowing light. I think that, and Logain saying with that much power you can do anything, was supposed to show the viewers that the potential is there. Maybe if Rand had pulled in a lot of power before Suian tried to shield him she would have had more trouble. Either way, the show is definitely reiterating the idea that knowledge and experience is key.
Really need at least 10 episodes. So much to get done in the last episode. Naming the episode Daes Dae'mar doesn't really make any sense unless it's Moiraine and Suianne playing The Great Game at the end. The only thing that makes me question that is when Suianne says "You said you were stilled" because Moiraine thought she was as well and that's new info for both of them.
I love your videos for so many reasons. They are well edited, well articulated, well thought out. They are fair an open minded. But over everything else, you seem like such a kindhearted, warm, and genuine person. You are gift in this cynical war. Tai’Shar, Lauren.
You’re explanation videos and reviews of this series are SO GOOD! I need them to understand, as I am not a book reader. Egwene’s “I will kill you” made my heart jump for joy because it was confirmation that she still had fight in her!
Another fantastic video. I also noticed "the greyman." I don't think it's Tomas either. I only have a different interpretation of why, in Mat's "visions," it looks like it is not him at first. I think that's because we have other bodies in our different lives, so we see how he looked in that life, and then it switches to the current Mat. They're also snippets with no idea of the context, so they may not be what they look like. Finally, I saw ReverseBLT calling time in the Wheel of Time "futurepast," which is so accurate, so it makes me think that it was a previous life, but it may also be in the future ;)
Another great video! I really liked you including the theories about Moiraine and Siuan. I’m really hoping for theory 2 as well, but I could see 3 being a big possibility. When Siuan says “help me, help me” I don’t think she’s referring to what just happened. I think she’s saying help me, a dark friend or forsaken got to me and I’m doing things that are going to get me in trouble and mess our plans. Long winded but I want to add I think Matt is going to shine in the finale!
Loved the breakdown, your ideas, and your sensitivity. ❤ I keep going back and forth on Siuan and Morraine. I just hope we dont have to wait til next season for answers. I have a feeling we may have to, though.
Yes, they seemed to be talking any and everywhere, as loud as possible about Rand being the Dragon and nobody was batting an eye. And after all the supposed secrecy too.
I honestly was expecting more power display by the Amberlyn seat, she seamed so weak by needing to link with others to put down the fire, and even weaker with the confrontation with the forsaken.
i think her being swatted away by lanfear was to 1) echo how she so easily shielded rand and 2) further emphasize how powerful lanfear and the forsaken are. siuan is (essentially) the most powerful aes sedai in the world but was easily overpowered
@@indigoflm maybe it was just me wanting to see a fight, lol. But the way Siuan gave in almost willingly might be because of one of the theories explained in the video. It was all planned.
I love your callback to Suian's speech to Egwene and Nynaeve in season 1. I didn't think about that before. In season 1 because of her cold open, I thought she was referring to how she wished she could have continued to live at home with her father instead of going to the White Tower. But it works equally well after her season 2 cold open! Very cool.
When Moraine was leaving for the Ways and they exchanged the final glances, there was a slight nod of approval or "go ahead as agreed" in Suan's eyes. That is what I saw anyway. It is impossible Moraine and Suan would not know that Lanfear would not come: Moraine took Rand from Lanfear so she knew he was with her; then she watched him going to the dream world and talking to Lanfear there. So I do not believe that they were caught off-guard by Lanfear's arrival. I think that - after more people found out that there's a Dragon REborn walking around - Suan needed to let those people know that she, being the Amrylin Seat, knew this from the onset and quietly worked on this with Moraine (otherwise she is just a bad Amrylin Seat). But when doing so (letting other people know this), she also now needed to follow the Tower's laws. Again - because she is the Amrylin Seat. But I think she disagrees that caging Rand is good (otherwise this would be Moraine's task from the very beginning), so they kind of staged all this. And THAT IS WHY this nod of approval in the last Suan's glance ("go, this all goes as planned" kinda thing). /I never read the books, but watched a tone of video's full of spoilers and read the whole fandom-pedia))) just too impatient to read the books - want to know everything here and now))) anyways - I am trying to make a note here that I do not know the books this well, I just watch the series and derive my thoughts from what I see. Loved your analysis - will watch more!/
I watched just the other day your 1x8 video from way back when. You totally predicted 'the knot'! You noticed how camera zoomed on Ishy's hand with a small knotted weaves while stilling/shielding her. Of course, many viewers predicted that Moraine will be restored, but you said exactly what's going on and what it will take. Awesome! Subscribed immediately!
The theory that they are Playing a Great Game on everyone involved seems a bit far-fetched, except that the episode is literally named Daes Dae'mar ...
I think the aftermath of the events in Carhien will be the starting point of S3. Including the revelation about Liandrin. It would totally fit both with the current events of the show as well as the books.
I think it's now a race between whether Siuan can retain the throne while probably being shielded or stilled versus Liandrin gathering supporters to dethrone her.
Moiraine has no equal when it comes to "the great game" its not by mistake this episode was named that. Moiraine is always playing 4d chess with everyone.
Great stuff again Lauren, thanks for all your hard work. Fingers crossed episode 8 will tie a nice neat bow around a much improved season. As a book reader it has been excellent TV and I've enjoyed some of the changes. I JUST WANT MORE! Announce season 4 please and a 10/12 episode season 3.
What a great analysis! I love your speculations and too hope that all the scenes and plot twists that gave us pause are actually masterful daes de'mar, not merely sloppy inconsistencies. Just a few hours to find out, can't wait!
Great video. I'm so up in the air about the Mor/Siuan stuff and that I think is a good thing. I don't think any of the possibilities would disappoint me and all have interesting ways they can be spun. I did feel the cutting of the knot to release the shield on Mor was a bit anti-climactic for me considering how much time we spent with it. But I also think this has all been a tool to set a lot of precedent for the future without the need for further explanations at that time. Can't wait for tonight, it is going to be a doosey for sure.
Amazing work on this, Lauren. Thank you, beyond words, for your compassionate message to those suffering with despair. I have a thought on Moiraine and Lanfear, which may be a little book spoilery: For just a moment, I thought they might have been setting up the "twisted doorway incident", which also takes place in Cairhien. That would've been a spectacular end to Episode 7! Regardless, I'm still delighted with the show's treatment of these amazing characters and am looking forward to Episode 8. I've been a fan of the books since they came out in 1990, and have thoroughly enjoyed re-reading the series in parallel with the show.
LOL I didn't even THINK about the Gordian knot and that was the subject of my first ever college film production assignment ever. Nice! I also just completely blanked on the fact that Siuan knew where to find the Waygate, I was too busy finding it odd she showed up by herself. I think it's a BA in a mask of mirrors, personally. I mean it cuts from Cairhien rampart, Siuan telling Leane to heal and what not, but it doesn't show the Amyrlin taking her leave, by herself, of every other Aes Sedai. I think we know if someone under Oath believes they are obeying the Oath, then it works, so it doesn't have to be the real Siuan Sanche to compel Moiraine to shut the gate...but...why do it only to have Lanfear open it, if Siuan is in fact a pawn of darkfriends? I mean, "to sow seeds of mistrust" is thin enough with the Mat/Min thing, but it can't be the explanation for everything. Siuan attacking Lan at all, again, something I kinda missed but on review, just doesn't make sense, even within the show's rules. I think something's up, this season the show has been flaunting it's ability to show something that doesn't seem to line up right and seems like an error, then in a following episode they shine a lantern right on it and straight up talk it out in dialogue. Played straight, it could kinda work if you argue that Siuan had reason to believe Moiraine and/or Lan were df, Siuan went by herself because if she was wrong, she couldn't afford revealing everything in front of other sisters, etc. I still think something's up though.
Siuan could’ve sensed the channeling for the Waygate, I suppose, but I don’t think we’ve been introduced to that yet. That’s my explanation though. She could easily attack Lan as she did if she thought they work for the Shadow, too, which is why the face value theory still has much merit.
Not quite: We know from the books that a member of the Black Ajah can still be bound to _future_ oaths taken on the Oath Rod: Their oaths to the Dark only break existing oaths on them, they do not make them immune to future oaths. If Moiraine were Black before she swore to obey Siuan, she would still be bound to that oath.
Interesting theories. I'm honestly inclined to think we believe what we see as it happened. I would be more apt to believe the "they planned it all together and staged it" idea if there were other Aes Sedai around to witness it. It would have given Siuan a sort of plausible deniability in terms of responsibility for the Dragon disappearing and leaving thier custody, but there was no one around to witness it. This was a 1 on 1 argument with no other Aes Sedai in sight. And the compulsion idea just feels flimsy to me. I think from the perspective of Siuan, she finds out Moraine has been "stilled" and the Dragon has been running around for 6 months with no one to shield him if he goes mad, and no training happening. At this point its her duty to revaluate the situation and make adjustments to the plan. Tho i did find it incredibly poor tact the way she approached Rand telling him she planned to cage him and use him as a weapon. I cant decide if i think that's just an example of her being a bad Amyrlin or some kind of intentional prodding to get him to rebel and thus feel justified in caging him. And the issue of her channeling at Lan i think makes perfect sense given the scenario and her perception of the events unfolding. The first thing she says when she walks out there to Moraine is "you lied to me" about being stilled. Imagine from her perspective, you find out one Aes Sedai colluded with another (Verin) to free the Dragon Reborn against your explicit orders, and now you have reason to believe she's broken the 3 oaths and lied to you. She thinks her partner of 20+ years is a darkfriend, so her using the one power on Lan would be totally justified in her mind. Her head must be spinning at the implications of this happening while Lanfear is rampaging through the city. Remember they all think the world is coming to an end like tomorrow, and it's her responsibility first and foremost to stop it. I actually believe what we saw actually happened just like that. And it is heartbreaking. I think the idea of tower law saying to cage Rand and use him as a weapon is supposed to be a parallel to the evil we see in the Seanchan. And Siuan using the oath to physically force Moraine to close the waygate is a parallel to the violation of power Egwene suffers at the hands of Renna. Sad to say but i think this just paves the way for what book readers know is supposed to happen to Siuan.
Agree 💯%, it's sad that they're "breaking up" and probably not going to be working together anymore but I feel like Suian is acting logically given the circumstances. And if Suian's future arc does hew pretty close to the books, there's now an established parallel with Moiraine's story in S2. Edit to add: of course, if this is all a bunch of daes dae'maring by S&M plus a Lanfear shaped monkey wrench, that'd be neat too, but either way, I don't think either of them are going to avoid serious consequences.
@@HowieStephens yeah, certainly the name of the episode itself could be a huge clue to the reality of all of it, so we'll just have to see! Also referring to them as S&M is my new favorite thing 😅
Yeah, I think you are right. It's a horrible, tragic misunderstanding between two people who are trying to do what is best for the world. Especially with the cold open scenes overlaid....just heartbreaking.
People seem to have really missed the Lan storyline so I hope when they go back and rewatch the season knowing what happens they will catch more of it. Almost every scene he has been in this season has been him being a detective and trying to figure out what happened to Moiraine. From the season 1 scene where they tell him Moiraine is showing strength to be able to function at all to his discussions with Alanna's warders about how masking the bond makes them feel to him asking about forgotten abilities the forsaken migtht have had. There is even a book reader nod in there with the book that Verin asks for which likely is where Lan is referring to with tower records. On the flip side I rewatched episode 7 with eyes for the theory that Moiraine and Siuan planned all of this and it just doesn't work. If that is how they go with this it is going to be less The Sixth Sense where you can view the movie differently knowing the end and more The Usual Suspect where everything you see on screen is rewritten by the ending.
They certainly didn't plan all of it. I think Lanfear was a shock, and I think there is some Black Ajah manipulation, but I just don't see Moiraine and Siuan having that big of a falling out. Why did Siuan say "from now on I row beside you" and then do a complete 180 the rest of the episode? Something's fishy (pun intended).
The alternative to Moiraine and Suian being on the outs is that Rand eventually learns of this charade and it destroys the relationship between him and Moiraine. I'm personally much more excited about going into season 3 with a good working relationship between Rand and Moiraine that's built on something real.
It should be noted that if Moiraine had truly been stilled that she would no longer be bound by any oath sworn on the Oath Rod. She would be free to lie to her heart's content.
I don't know about that. They could just be making the Aes Sedai of this age more ignorant. Even in the books the Aes Sedai ddi not realize that being stilled would release someone from the power of the oath rod. One of Siuan's main advantages in Salidar was that the sisters still assumed she was incapable of lying. @@tingtaiji
@@magister343 I hear you and remember that from the books. What confuses me is if we are using the books as a reference, everyone who channels knows the difference between when they’ve been channeled and when they’ve been stilled or burned out. It’s pretty clear to the channeler what was done to them. This is emphasized in conversations about tied off weaves, the stedding, and being shielded. It certainly seemed as though Moiraine, Alanna, et al, all believed that Moiraine was stilled. Now maybe Moiraine thinks that she is as good as stilled since neither she nor anyone else around her can fix whatever Ishy did. But she certainly acts as though she was stilled. 🤷🏻♂️ I simply don’t think the show is doing a great job of communicating how the magic systems work. Just me.
I’m wondering if the letter Moiraine sent will come back to haunt her. Claiming you’re stilled, freeing the Dragon Reborn, and jetting off with Lanfear through the Ways is not a good look. The writers made a point to explain in an earlier episode that even writing an untruth would break their oaths. Maybe the letter Moiraine wrote will be be use by the White Tower to accuse her of breaking her oaths and assume she is Black Ajah.
It's not a lie if she thinks it's true, though. And it looked like she couldn't finish the letter. I agree it's not a good look, though. Siuan's darkfriend suspicion is entirely reasonable from her perspective.
@@teagan_p_999 she wrote several letter that she tossed and they were sure to show us what they were about. Moiraine gave the house servant a letter to deliver to the Blue Ajah only moments later she’s being summoned by the Amyrlin Seat. It’s possible that when the letter eventually makes its way to the White Tower it could be used against her. As far as claiming she didn’t know it was untrue, it’s a tough sell when you’ve been seen channeling.
@@Panyc333 : Hmm... Re Moiraine's letter given to the servant: She specifically said to deliver it to the BLUE AJAH, not the Amyrlin Seat. I wonder whether that was Mo's first play in the (theoretical) Great Game: bringing her Ajah into a new plan with Siuan. Wow!
"In a way, I think Moiraine has come to accept that she is just a small thread caught in a torrent, who can only surrender her will to the weaving of the Great Pattern."
I think Suian’s actions make perfect sense given the circumstances and it’s Moiraine’s actions that baffles me. Rand freed Ishamael in their last confrontation and hasn’t made any progress as a channeler thereafter. Why is Moiraine throwing Rand at Ishamael right now?
Because Rand was going to go anyway, I think. Once Rand tells Moiraine that Ishamael has Egwene, she knows that she can't move him from wanting to go there. All she can do is try to protect and guide him as best she can.
Right from the books (to Egwene)..."because I remembered how to control Saidar." I think we are seeing an accelration in the trust between Rand and Moiraine, and I am happy about it.@@butterflydm3533
Oh, I didnt see someone else made this comment already! Cool, that makes me feel less crazy/blind already 😅I think its that braid on top of the head, Laila had one like this as well..... 🤔
@@LindaDias-y9i I've seen a lot of theories that she was a darkfriend about to 💀 Perrin when he accidentally got her instead... maybe there is something to that after all!
One thing that jumped out and hit me like a sledgehammer. Rand telling Siuan I wont live in your cage. You can clearly hear that that is not Rands voice, or at least not only Rands voice. I think we got LTT there. Well, you know their history with cages❤️
@@CristinaCAnsbjerg Maybe, but can't see why a non-reader will even remember it by next season. Never ascribe to design that which could be ascribed to degrees of competence 😊
My personal take is that it was a Myrddraal that snuck up on Mat. The figure seemed to materialize from the shadows, and I don't think the books ever made a firm declaration of how far a fade could move through shadows. I wondered if Fades could move other objects with them, but they'd have to move their weapons, armor, and horses all the time, no? Ofc there are ways Lanfear could've transported him; and someone else pointed out that one of Alanna's warders used a gesture that was referenced in the books by Aran'gar. Very interesting indeed.
In some scenes, it looked like siuane was being serious and moiraine didn’t think she was because she ‘loves her too much’ and would let her do what she wants. I don’t know what’s in store for episode 8 but I’m dying to find out!!
I'm concerned that Compulsion may be the answer to too many things. Spoiler: As in the books, M and S do not see each other till the bitter end, I'm not concerned with Ep7 finale. I'm curious about the Anvere? / Barthanes arc come S4 if it occurs. So much to consider after I see S2E8. Thanks Lauren. BTB, no self respecting Aiel would allow themselves to be seen walking on the crest of a ridge. Just saying.
I don't see Compulsion being the answer: We know from the weird writing in the Book of Novices that people under Compulsion aren't "all there" in terms of their behavior. No one in the books would have anywhere near the power or skill required to weave so thorough a Compulsion on Siuan to control her behavior so precisely, including all of the emotion on her face during her scene with Moiraine, without turning them into a zombie. Even Graendal couldn't do it.
If I could give you 5 thumbs up I would. You gave voice to so many of my own thoughts about this episode. Something is up with Suian. She has looked exhausted this whole season. One thing I thought about was she was supposedly in Caemlyn. Without book spoilers could she have been poisoned against Rand there
Great as usual! Thank you so much. I can't wait for the season finale later. AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Also, wondering what will happen to Verin since she kinda lied to get the other Aes Sedai to go to Siuan. Not sure if it's considered lying already.
On Siuan and Moiriane- I think it’s a mix of the three, in a way. I think Ishy sowed the seeds of distrust and false hope and rash actions in Siuan and with Moiraine pushing everyone away this only grew the seeds. I think Siuan’s ability to attack Lan rests on that she must see Lan as compromised, just as she accuses Moiraine. Not that she truly believes it, but cannot make sense of things. How strongly she felt is also replicated in how her commands toward Moiraine grew (otherwise, Moiraine would have closed the way gate immediately). Basically, Ishy is toying w/ Siuan and Moiraine into acting early (rush to the Eye, announce Rand as Dragon, compromise their carefully laid plans). While I’d say it’s better to show, not tell, it was probably something to do with the actress’ availability or screentime limits.
Mostly speculation and analysis, but I figure Ishy has some level of involvement because how else is Moiraine useful to him. He knows about Min’s visions and these prophecies, so I assume he’s probably nudging key people in certain ways in a variety of ways.
Wonder if the cloaked concusser was Maksim. Re. Lanfear's little secret, I think show notes on TAR indicate that it's possible ro travel long distances via the world of dreams.
19:22 and moraine told Rand to call landfill. Right when Verin left them go, Moiraine said do you think Lanfear can help you get out of here? And he contacted lanfear with moraine's knowledge
Why was Rand only shielded by one Aes Sedai? You can justify that as him being inexperienced and not knowing how to break the shield. Even so, not having three or more sisters shielding him is risky. Maybe the other Aes Sedai were too busy with protecting Cairhien and they planned to have a stronger shield on him later. Someone on Reddit pointed out what appears to be a plot hole. This season, Lan said something along the lines of ”eight Aes Sedai are needed a still a woman”. But, at the very beginning of the series, Liandrin and four other Reds gentle a man, most likely linked together. The actor list on IMDB for episode 8 implies that we probably won’t see Cairhien in the finale. We may not get confirmation for any theory about Siuan’s actions.
I could kind of see this as something like what happens in the books, where they say thirteen AS are needed to shield/gentle a man, but that it is more custom than reality. It could be something like -- Tower Law says eight AS must be used to still a woman, in the sense that it is like a jury and they must all agree, and the misinterpretation that has persisted through the years is that eight AS are physically necessary.
Hi Lauren, do you know how their mailing systems work? I find it quite incredible that they can send letters to each other the same way we do today. In the medieval times, it was pretty hard to send and receive letters just from anywhere.
I really enjoyed this video. Wondering if someone could explain what “the last battle is” or would that be a spoiler? I have not read the books yet, but I’ve watch the show many times. Still not clear what it is.
In universe the Last Battle is also called Tarmon Gai'don, and you can see how close that old-tongue phrase is to the real-world word "Armageddon," aka the end of the freakin world 😁
I kinda don’t think that was siuan at the end there. Maybe someone shapeshifted in to her? Can they do that? I haven’t read the books. But I’m imagining the beginning of the next episode maybe the real siuan will finally arrive and discover the imposter, maybe it was Liadrin? That would explain attacking lan, and if moiraine thought it really was siuan maybe the oath would still apply. Idk I’m spitballing here
Pretty cool summary however i would say read & reread the books many times could not do so with the shows certain episodes for sure but on the whole no just to much higgledy piggledy for me but still trying
@@UnravelingthePattern Watched the finale. So awesome and satisfying. And yes, Lanfear had a plan. I think they needed to execute this part better though. They've already established the fear and dread Moraine has for Lanfear. And they just casually joined her her with hardly a concern. At least they should have tried to force themselves to join for Rand's sake. Lanfear pretends to stops them. Rand starts whinging and Lanfear relents and lets them come. I think that would have been a better sell to the audience. Can't wait for your Ep8 Unravel!
I’d like to believe that Moiraine and Siuan are still working together, although narratively it would make more sense that they are now opposing each other. My favorite parts of the books (that I feel like the show has not yet portrayed well enough) is just how much Moiraine manipulates everyone around her, up to the most mundane things. I always think back to the first book where they were traveling from the Two Rivers and Rand was furious that no matter how set he was on not doing any chores that evening she always found a way to make them do the chores. There is a reason why common folk is always set on not trusting Aes Sedai, and I would love to see more of Moiraine controlling the narrative. This season it felt like she was more dragged along
the don't ship in the books, so this Rand who does nothing and is weak and already shacks up with her....sure go ahead, make Rafe happy and root for that.
Im still not convinced Siuan would want to cage Rand forever. She tells him that's protocol and he freaks out, but we don't know how much she believes in it. I am leaning toward theory 2, i do believe rand meeting siuan was a song and dance to help him to trust moiraine more since he naturally has distrust toward the aes sedai, and so the amyrlin seat being a bit authoritarian gives him a meanie to be against.
I thought that Siuan thought that Morain had lied to her, a sign that Morain was in the Black Ajah. She forced Moraine's obedience to test this theory.
Even though its different in the books. I am sailing on the suian and morraine ship and i wont be mad if they continue their relationship for the whole show
Please continue to show that shot of Rand tied to the wheel whenever it is even vaguely relevant to what you are talking about, and occasionally even when it isn't :)
Not going to lie, I was very upset about Siuan. I don’t mind plot changes that seem consistent, but I have a lot of trouble with big changes to character like Lan moping and complaining about Moraine and Siuan compelling Moiraine. Not sure how a twist would work for Siuaraine because it was not a twist for Lan, he was not faking that. Siuan should have guided Rand to untie it. I certainly also predicted that would happen right after S1E8. I also read the scene asking M about suicide as caring not detecting, but it does come in the middle of his detecting. I think we needed more setup for all that such as Liandrin standing next to Siuan and Lan asking Verin questions about stilling when they talked about it before.
We saw Verin talking to Lan about stilling. We saw Verin asking Sheriam about a book on stilling. I think there was more off screen research and talking. We might even get a deleted scene after the season is over with more of Lan's detecting.
Loved this video! One thing I was surprised to hear was your praise for "expert handling" of the ji-e-toh scene. As this is only the second time viewers have been exposed to the concept, I think it was a pretty poor example which I think will leave most nonbook-readers confused. The way Aviendha explains the situation, it clearly wasn't her fault. Certainly maidens (and Aviendha specifically) take things too far, but I feel like the best time to display that is after the viewer has a solid understanding of the concept. Also, how often is toh resolved witwa beating? The only examples I can remember without research involve lying so I'm less confident about this one, I just thought it a beating was a lame way to display resolving toh for letting someone die, especially if it came about from making a dishonorable decision, which Aviendha did not make. Anyway, just my two cents on how this scene did not land for me. I'm glad if it did for others!
I do not think the maiden beating is a good example of ji'e'toh, but it is an impactful example. I suspect it will stick with viewers, and then when we meet more aiel and go to the waste next season we will get to see more moderate examples of honor and obligation.
Final point I'd like to make as we anxiously await the finale: Thinking back to the books, I cannot imagine a more difficult episode to adapt to television than the conclusion of The Great Hunt. There is so much complexity, so much that works on the page but feels like it wouldn't translate well to the screen. I don't envy the writers the task of meeting all our high expectations for the finale, and I'm girding my loins for at least a little disappointment!
well one thing that botherd me was that the leader of the aes seday where there with 14 weavers right, but at the end she was just walking alone ? weird.
Lauren, I really like you and your videos. And i am not a show hater. But man c'mon there is no excuse for a channeler of Siuans caliber to be able to keep a shield on Rand no matter how inexperienced he is. The power difference is so vast it shouldn't have been a problem.
I think it all boils down to Rand's lack of understanding about the power and his mentality at this point in the show. He had barely embraced saidin when Siuan knocked him down with the shield. Then she went on and on about how he was still weak, had learned nothing, a single aes sedai could handle him like bait fish. I do not think he ever even tried to break out of the shield after that. Also, the show is definitely setting it up so that Rand will "get stronger" as he learns and pushes his limits. Different than the books, but I think it will make it easy to show the TV audience his progression since it is easier to show bigger/brighter than just more complicated.
Im bit confused...can anyone explain.. rand is much eager to help egwene but why moraine is helping rand ..? Lanfear and ishamel wants rand to be shown to falme but rand is doing ir for them ..? Why alana and verin is also helping moraine ...amrylin said ramd is the power weapon but y are they going to falme ..?
As a sufferer of severe depression and anxiety, I really appreciate your message of support and help that you gave. Your message choked me up as much as the scene with Moraine and Lan. I'm lucky to have a great support network around, and I just want to say that people should never feel afraid or ashamed to ask for help.
Thank you.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Dude you are the only one so far who has said anything about self harm and how to get help. I love you for that.
Ditto! I love the authenticity and care!
🎉❗️
I came here to say this. Lauren seems to be such a genuine, caring person!
💯💯
I'm tired! Are you ready for the Season 2 Finale tomorrow?!
Yes, this season was better. Im really hoping they really stick closer and closer to books. Ive felt cringe at times
I came upon this show and channel by pure luck. And I really like both. Could you point me to where I could watch someone show how drastically the show departs from the books?
I'm sooooooo ready for the finale! That being said, then begins the longing for Season 3.
I can't think of a channel that does that specifically, but I try to and WoTUp and NaeBlis also do some of that.
@@ComS512if you haven't read the books, why would you care? From what I've seen, most of the channels that specifically focus on book changes are blatant ragebait, and not good content.
But like Lauren mentioned, his channel, and others like wotup, naeblis, dusty wheel, road to tar valon, lezbi nerdy, and the way of the leaf, and more all talk about book changes where relevant while remaining mostly positive and/or hopeful.
Lauren, what a national treasure you are to the WOT community. This was well thought out presentation, full of supportive evidence, showing history of past conversations to explain the conclusion to episode 7. Thank you truly for this wonderful work.
Thank you so much!
@@UnravelingthePattern Where are the missing S2 E3-4, E8 Unraveled that you promised?
Lan's smile - Daniel does such a great job having that little moment where his eyes come up to meet hers, he smiles and he squints a TINY bit. That little nuance of acting, holy shit. I have had a few men in my life who were stoic and didn't always show emotion (most of them that older generation) - that smile right there is the smile they'd do. The actors in this show are something else! Reminds me of that eye twitch Natasha did a few episodes ago. Just those little moments that are SO powerful.
Thanks Lauren, another excellent analysis. I like your theory that Moraine & Siuan had arranged their disagreement in front of Rand. He is now more inclined to trust & believe Moraine. Which we saw when he stopped Lanfear from harming Moraine. It sets up the change in their relationship in future seasons. Anxious to see the finale tomorrow. Praying Falme will be as we all anticipate
Re: Siuan attacking Lan, it seems that she thought they were darkfriends, at least right when she walked up. She said that Moiraine lied to her about being stilled, which I guess implies she thought Moiraine was Black Ajah in that moment. If that's true, then attacking Lan with the OP wouldn't be in violation of the third oath.
I agree. I believe they planned it all out, but at the last moment Suian became concerned that Moraine was possibly a darkfriend. Siuan tried to confirm the claim by commanding Moraine and seeing if she was still bound to the oath rod.
Darkfriends are no Shadowspawn though
@@leza4453no, but it still allows an AS to use the Power against them as we've seen much later from Elaida... And considering the even under compulsion, they cannot break the 3 oaths, it means that in that moment, she must believe it, by her own free will or not, yet truly believe it. At least if they do remember and go by that piece of lore.
@@leza4453 Third oath is: "Never to use the One Power as a weapon except against Darkfriends or Shadowspawn, or in the last extreme defense of her life, the life of her Warder, or another Aes Sedai"
Thank you for your sensitivity towards mental health and depression.
The only problem I had with this episode was how easily the female channelers were able to shield Rand, but after rewatching it a couple of times, I realized that he hasn't trained enough to fully realize his potential. I just can't wait for him to show us what he truly is capable of.
The only thing that angers me is that he looks so underpowered. We've seen Nynaeve release far more power when she couldn't even properly guide it, whereas Rand was always a brute force saidin user.
I thought this for a while too but he’s going to end up doing the largest scale things over the course of the show, whereas Nynaeve spiked early but won’t have nearly as many moments to be OP. I’m kind of glad we are getting a slow burn with his abilities
power vs experience, rand has power but no experience, the female channelers have more experience thats why they could shield him, Lanfear as more power and experience than all aes sedai for example, thats why she took down Suian.
Absolutely. We've seen Nynaeve have her weaves sliced by Liandrin and be shielded the same way -- it is ignorance/inexperience, not lack of power.
I actually think this might work out well for the future -- now that Rand has been shielded, he will be looking to learn how to break it.
@@jamess.2491 A couple of episodes ago we got the scene with Logain coaching Rand on how to properly seize control of saidin. Rand went from embracing with the strands of tainted power around him that we usually see to a ball of pure glowing light. I think that, and Logain saying with that much power you can do anything, was supposed to show the viewers that the potential is there. Maybe if Rand had pulled in a lot of power before Suian tried to shield him she would have had more trouble. Either way, the show is definitely reiterating the idea that knowledge and experience is key.
This was a fantastically done video. You had me tearing up a couple times. Thank you for sharing my love of the wheel of Time.
You are so welcome!
Really need at least 10 episodes. So much to get done in the last episode. Naming the episode Daes Dae'mar doesn't really make any sense unless it's Moiraine and Suianne playing The Great Game at the end. The only thing that makes me question that is when Suianne says "You said you were stilled" because Moiraine thought she was as well and that's new info for both of them.
I love your videos for so many reasons. They are well edited, well articulated, well thought out. They are fair an open minded.
But over everything else, you seem like such a kindhearted, warm, and genuine person. You are gift in this cynical war. Tai’Shar, Lauren.
You’re explanation videos and reviews of this series are SO GOOD! I need them to understand, as I am not a book reader. Egwene’s “I will kill you” made my heart jump for joy because it was confirmation that she still had fight in her!
Another fantastic video. I also noticed "the greyman." I don't think it's Tomas either. I only have a different interpretation of why, in Mat's "visions," it looks like it is not him at first. I think that's because we have other bodies in our different lives, so we see how he looked in that life, and then it switches to the current Mat. They're also snippets with no idea of the context, so they may not be what they look like.
Finally, I saw ReverseBLT calling time in the Wheel of Time "futurepast," which is so accurate, so it makes me think that it was a previous life, but it may also be in the future ;)
That's what I thought as well -- these were the bodies of his past lives, which then changed to Mat to demonstrate that they were all him.
Another great video! I really liked you including the theories about Moiraine and Siuan. I’m really hoping for theory 2 as well, but I could see 3 being a big possibility. When Siuan says “help me, help me” I don’t think she’s referring to what just happened. I think she’s saying help me, a dark friend or forsaken got to me and I’m doing things that are going to get me in trouble and mess our plans. Long winded but I want to add I think Matt is going to shine in the finale!
😱🤯I hadn't even thought of that meaning for "Help me"!
Loved the breakdown, your ideas, and your sensitivity. ❤
I keep going back and forth on Siuan and Morraine. I just hope we dont have to wait til next season for answers. I have a feeling we may have to, though.
I appreciate these videos so much! This one has me thinking of so many possible foreshadowing moments that I can't even talk about.
Best reviewer by far. No book spoliers.. thank you
Yes, they seemed to be talking any and everywhere, as loud as possible about Rand being the Dragon and nobody was batting an eye. And after all the supposed secrecy too.
I honestly was expecting more power display by the Amberlyn seat, she seamed so weak by needing to link with others to put down the fire, and even weaker with the confrontation with the forsaken.
i think her being swatted away by lanfear was to 1) echo how she so easily shielded rand and 2) further emphasize how powerful lanfear and the forsaken are. siuan is (essentially) the most powerful aes sedai in the world but was easily overpowered
@@indigoflm maybe it was just me wanting to see a fight, lol. But the way Siuan gave in almost willingly might be because of one of the theories explained in the video. It was all planned.
@@indigoflmExcept for the fact that the forsaken aren't the most powerful channeler. It's the legend and myths surrounding them that's powerful
@@robinirie98so are they actually quantifiably not more powerful than the aes sedai? i thought they were
I love your callback to Suian's speech to Egwene and Nynaeve in season 1. I didn't think about that before. In season 1 because of her cold open, I thought she was referring to how she wished she could have continued to live at home with her father instead of going to the White Tower. But it works equally well after her season 2 cold open! Very cool.
When Moraine was leaving for the Ways and they exchanged the final glances, there was a slight nod of approval or "go ahead as agreed" in Suan's eyes. That is what I saw anyway. It is impossible Moraine and Suan would not know that Lanfear would not come: Moraine took Rand from Lanfear so she knew he was with her; then she watched him going to the dream world and talking to Lanfear there. So I do not believe that they were caught off-guard by Lanfear's arrival. I think that - after more people found out that there's a Dragon REborn walking around - Suan needed to let those people know that she, being the Amrylin Seat, knew this from the onset and quietly worked on this with Moraine (otherwise she is just a bad Amrylin Seat). But when doing so (letting other people know this), she also now needed to follow the Tower's laws. Again - because she is the Amrylin Seat. But I think she disagrees that caging Rand is good (otherwise this would be Moraine's task from the very beginning), so they kind of staged all this. And THAT IS WHY this nod of approval in the last Suan's glance ("go, this all goes as planned" kinda thing). /I never read the books, but watched a tone of video's full of spoilers and read the whole fandom-pedia))) just too impatient to read the books - want to know everything here and now))) anyways - I am trying to make a note here that I do not know the books this well, I just watch the series and derive my thoughts from what I see. Loved your analysis - will watch more!/
thank you for the great video Lauren
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video, i love how PERFECTLY you analyzed Moraine's self sacrifice and I agree with every point, truly a fantastic character
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful inclusion of mental health, and help. The world needs more people like you.
Your videos saved this show for me! So helpful, thanks!
I'm so glad!
I watched just the other day your 1x8 video from way back when. You totally predicted 'the knot'! You noticed how camera zoomed on Ishy's hand with a small knotted weaves while stilling/shielding her. Of course, many viewers predicted that Moraine will be restored, but you said exactly what's going on and what it will take. Awesome! Subscribed immediately!
The theory that they are Playing a Great Game on everyone involved seems a bit far-fetched, except that the episode is literally named Daes Dae'mar ...
... and didn't show much of the actual Game of Houses, so I can totally see it meaning playing games at a larger scale...
How is that Liandrin has not been exposed yet，I mean moiraine's sister did find that she is dark friend right?
I'd watch my back if I were Anveare. Liandrin won't want any loose ends if she finds out what happened to Barthanes.
I think the aftermath of the events in Carhien will be the starting point of S3. Including the revelation about Liandrin. It would totally fit both with the current events of the show as well as the books.
I think it's now a race between whether Siuan can retain the throne while probably being shielded or stilled versus Liandrin gathering supporters to dethrone her.
Moiraine has no equal when it comes to "the great game" its not by mistake this episode was named that. Moiraine is always playing 4d chess with everyone.
I agree, and i fervently hope they keep that up in the show 👍
thank you so much for unpacking the heartbreaking ending!
Great breakdown as always, thanks! I’m so ready for the finally today!
Great stuff again Lauren, thanks for all your hard work. Fingers crossed episode 8 will tie a nice neat bow around a much improved season. As a book reader it has been excellent TV and I've enjoyed some of the changes. I JUST WANT MORE! Announce season 4 please and a 10/12 episode season 3.
What a great analysis! I love your speculations and too hope that all the scenes and plot twists that gave us pause are actually masterful daes de'mar, not merely sloppy inconsistencies. Just a few hours to find out, can't wait!
Great video. I'm so up in the air about the Mor/Siuan stuff and that I think is a good thing. I don't think any of the possibilities would disappoint me and all have interesting ways they can be spun. I did feel the cutting of the knot to release the shield on Mor was a bit anti-climactic for me considering how much time we spent with it. But I also think this has all been a tool to set a lot of precedent for the future without the need for further explanations at that time. Can't wait for tonight, it is going to be a doosey for sure.
Amazing work on this, Lauren. Thank you, beyond words, for your compassionate message to those suffering with despair. I have a thought on Moiraine and Lanfear, which may be a little book spoilery: For just a moment, I thought they might have been setting up the "twisted doorway incident", which also takes place in Cairhien. That would've been a spectacular end to Episode 7! Regardless, I'm still delighted with the show's treatment of these amazing characters and am looking forward to Episode 8. I've been a fan of the books since they came out in 1990, and have thoroughly enjoyed re-reading the series in parallel with the show.
Another great video Lauren! Let's hope we get a 90 minute finale.
you are the best person to be doing this. thank you.
LOL I didn't even THINK about the Gordian knot and that was the subject of my first ever college film production assignment ever. Nice! I also just completely blanked on the fact that Siuan knew where to find the Waygate, I was too busy finding it odd she showed up by herself. I think it's a BA in a mask of mirrors, personally. I mean it cuts from Cairhien rampart, Siuan telling Leane to heal and what not, but it doesn't show the Amyrlin taking her leave, by herself, of every other Aes Sedai. I think we know if someone under Oath believes they are obeying the Oath, then it works, so it doesn't have to be the real Siuan Sanche to compel Moiraine to shut the gate...but...why do it only to have Lanfear open it, if Siuan is in fact a pawn of darkfriends? I mean, "to sow seeds of mistrust" is thin enough with the Mat/Min thing, but it can't be the explanation for everything. Siuan attacking Lan at all, again, something I kinda missed but on review, just doesn't make sense, even within the show's rules. I think something's up, this season the show has been flaunting it's ability to show something that doesn't seem to line up right and seems like an error, then in a following episode they shine a lantern right on it and straight up talk it out in dialogue.
Played straight, it could kinda work if you argue that Siuan had reason to believe Moiraine and/or Lan were df, Siuan went by herself because if she was wrong, she couldn't afford revealing everything in front of other sisters, etc. I still think something's up though.
Siuan could’ve sensed the channeling for the Waygate, I suppose, but I don’t think we’ve been introduced to that yet. That’s my explanation though.
She could easily attack Lan as she did if she thought they work for the Shadow, too, which is why the face value theory still has much merit.
Siuan thought Moiraine is a dark friend. She forced her to use the oath and confirmed that she's not.
Not quite: We know from the books that a member of the Black Ajah can still be bound to _future_ oaths taken on the Oath Rod: Their oaths to the Dark only break existing oaths on them, they do not make them immune to future oaths. If Moiraine were Black before she swore to obey Siuan, she would still be bound to that oath.
Rand isn't the water, Rand is the rim that holds the wheel together and prevents it from falling apart.
Yeah! Rand is rimming the wheel and will cleanse the taint while he's doing that!
@@athomenotavailableI laughed so hard I spit out my coffee!!! Thank you for that. But I'm out of sugar and you owe me a cup bro!!!
Really well described, outstanding episode and season 2 is a success. It's amazing, can't wait for the finally and more seasons, thank you.
Interesting theories. I'm honestly inclined to think we believe what we see as it happened. I would be more apt to believe the "they planned it all together and staged it" idea if there were other Aes Sedai around to witness it. It would have given Siuan a sort of plausible deniability in terms of responsibility for the Dragon disappearing and leaving thier custody, but there was no one around to witness it. This was a 1 on 1 argument with no other Aes Sedai in sight.
And the compulsion idea just feels flimsy to me. I think from the perspective of Siuan, she finds out Moraine has been "stilled" and the Dragon has been running around for 6 months with no one to shield him if he goes mad, and no training happening. At this point its her duty to revaluate the situation and make adjustments to the plan. Tho i did find it incredibly poor tact the way she approached Rand telling him she planned to cage him and use him as a weapon. I cant decide if i think that's just an example of her being a bad Amyrlin or some kind of intentional prodding to get him to rebel and thus feel justified in caging him.
And the issue of her channeling at Lan i think makes perfect sense given the scenario and her perception of the events unfolding. The first thing she says when she walks out there to Moraine is "you lied to me" about being stilled. Imagine from her perspective, you find out one Aes Sedai colluded with another (Verin) to free the Dragon Reborn against your explicit orders, and now you have reason to believe she's broken the 3 oaths and lied to you. She thinks her partner of 20+ years is a darkfriend, so her using the one power on Lan would be totally justified in her mind. Her head must be spinning at the implications of this happening while Lanfear is rampaging through the city. Remember they all think the world is coming to an end like tomorrow, and it's her responsibility first and foremost to stop it.
I actually believe what we saw actually happened just like that. And it is heartbreaking. I think the idea of tower law saying to cage Rand and use him as a weapon is supposed to be a parallel to the evil we see in the Seanchan. And Siuan using the oath to physically force Moraine to close the waygate is a parallel to the violation of power Egwene suffers at the hands of Renna.
Sad to say but i think this just paves the way for what book readers know is supposed to happen to Siuan.
Great thoughts!
Agree 💯%, it's sad that they're "breaking up" and probably not going to be working together anymore but I feel like Suian is acting logically given the circumstances. And if Suian's future arc does hew pretty close to the books, there's now an established parallel with Moiraine's story in S2.
Edit to add: of course, if this is all a bunch of daes dae'maring by S&M plus a Lanfear shaped monkey wrench, that'd be neat too, but either way, I don't think either of them are going to avoid serious consequences.
@@HowieStephens yeah, certainly the name of the episode itself could be a huge clue to the reality of all of it, so we'll just have to see! Also referring to them as S&M is my new favorite thing 😅
Yeah, I think you are right. It's a horrible, tragic misunderstanding between two people who are trying to do what is best for the world. Especially with the cold open scenes overlaid....just heartbreaking.
The Great Game.
That's life
People seem to have really missed the Lan storyline so I hope when they go back and rewatch the season knowing what happens they will catch more of it. Almost every scene he has been in this season has been him being a detective and trying to figure out what happened to Moiraine. From the season 1 scene where they tell him Moiraine is showing strength to be able to function at all to his discussions with Alanna's warders about how masking the bond makes them feel to him asking about forgotten abilities the forsaken migtht have had. There is even a book reader nod in there with the book that Verin asks for which likely is where Lan is referring to with tower records.
On the flip side I rewatched episode 7 with eyes for the theory that Moiraine and Siuan planned all of this and it just doesn't work. If that is how they go with this it is going to be less The Sixth Sense where you can view the movie differently knowing the end and more The Usual Suspect where everything you see on screen is rewritten by the ending.
They certainly didn't plan all of it. I think Lanfear was a shock, and I think there is some Black Ajah manipulation, but I just don't see Moiraine and Siuan having that big of a falling out. Why did Siuan say "from now on I row beside you" and then do a complete 180 the rest of the episode? Something's fishy (pun intended).
The alternative to Moiraine and Suian being on the outs is that Rand eventually learns of this charade and it destroys the relationship between him and Moiraine. I'm personally much more excited about going into season 3 with a good working relationship between Rand and Moiraine that's built on something real.
Yes! That's one thing I would love to see changed from the books, Moiraine and Rand trusting each other and communicating! 🙏🏻
Dude.....this is an awesome review......real talk
I appreciate that!
It should be noted that if Moiraine had truly been stilled that she would no longer be bound by any oath sworn on the Oath Rod. She would be free to lie to her heart's content.
Yeah, but so far it seems they’ve change how channeling works.
I wondered about that.
I don't know about that. They could just be making the Aes Sedai of this age more ignorant. Even in the books the Aes Sedai ddi not realize that being stilled would release someone from the power of the oath rod. One of Siuan's main advantages in Salidar was that the sisters still assumed she was incapable of lying. @@tingtaiji
While I agree, that's a future book spoiler which is why I don't talk about it in these particular videos.
@@magister343 I hear you and remember that from the books. What confuses me is if we are using the books as a reference, everyone who channels knows the difference between when they’ve been channeled and when they’ve been stilled or burned out. It’s pretty clear to the channeler what was done to them. This is emphasized in conversations about tied off weaves, the stedding, and being shielded. It certainly seemed as though Moiraine, Alanna, et al, all believed that Moiraine was stilled. Now maybe Moiraine thinks that she is as good as stilled since neither she nor anyone else around her can fix whatever Ishy did. But she certainly acts as though she was stilled. 🤷🏻♂️ I simply don’t think the show is doing a great job of communicating how the magic systems work. Just me.
I’m wondering if the letter Moiraine sent will come back to haunt her. Claiming you’re stilled, freeing the Dragon Reborn, and jetting off with Lanfear through the Ways is not a good look.
The writers made a point to explain in an earlier episode that even writing an untruth would break their oaths.
Maybe the letter Moiraine wrote will be be use by the White Tower to accuse her of breaking her oaths and assume she is Black Ajah.
It's not a lie if she thinks it's true, though. And it looked like she couldn't finish the letter. I agree it's not a good look, though. Siuan's darkfriend suspicion is entirely reasonable from her perspective.
@@teagan_p_999 she wrote several letter that she tossed and they were sure to show us what they were about.
Moiraine gave the house servant a letter to deliver to the Blue Ajah only moments later she’s being summoned by the Amyrlin Seat.
It’s possible that when the letter eventually makes its way to the White Tower it could be used against her.
As far as claiming she didn’t know it was untrue, it’s a tough sell when you’ve been seen channeling.
@@Panyc333 : Hmm... Re Moiraine's letter given to the servant: She specifically said to deliver it to the BLUE AJAH, not the Amyrlin Seat. I wonder whether that was Mo's first play in the (theoretical) Great Game: bringing her Ajah into a new plan with Siuan. Wow!
@@pete4096 who said the letter was to be delivered to the Amyrlin Seat?
@@Panyc333 A commenter said the letter with Siuan in the carriage was from Moiraine.
Awesome...as always! Thank you.
Love love love your channel
"In a way, I think Moiraine has come to accept that she is just a small thread caught in a torrent, who can only surrender her will to the weaving of the Great Pattern."
I think Suian’s actions make perfect sense given the circumstances and it’s Moiraine’s actions that baffles me. Rand freed Ishamael in their last confrontation and hasn’t made any progress as a channeler thereafter. Why is Moiraine throwing Rand at Ishamael right now?
Because Rand was going to go anyway, I think. Once Rand tells Moiraine that Ishamael has Egwene, she knows that she can't move him from wanting to go there. All she can do is try to protect and guide him as best she can.
It might also be the case that Rand needs to be freed to complete the prophecies, abd that a chained dragon will be doomed.
Right from the books (to Egwene)..."because I remembered how to control Saidar." I think we are seeing an accelration in the trust between Rand and Moiraine, and I am happy about it.@@butterflydm3533
I love how you explain WOT❤
And I love you!
You are simply the best.
You are!
Oh wow that person in the mirror looked like Layla when you zoomed in
Oh, I didnt see someone else made this comment already! Cool, that makes me feel less crazy/blind already 😅I think its that braid on top of the head, Laila had one like this as well..... 🤔
@@LindaDias-y9i I've seen a lot of theories that she was a darkfriend about to 💀 Perrin when he accidentally got her instead... maybe there is something to that after all!
I love your theories.
One thing that jumped out and hit me like a sledgehammer. Rand telling Siuan I wont live in your cage. You can clearly hear that that is not Rands voice, or at least not only Rands voice. I think we got LTT there. Well, you know their history with cages❤️
What history with cages? That's lost on me
@@robinirie98boxes if you prefer... (If you're a book reader at least! Otherwise, it's spoilery.)
@@questionsroxelane3643 I see what you mean but at this point in the story, neither had any familiarity with boxes.
@@robinirie98 I think that line is forshadowing something that will happen in the next season
@@CristinaCAnsbjerg Maybe, but can't see why a non-reader will even remember it by next season. Never ascribe to design that which could be ascribed to degrees of competence 😊
I love your unraveling episodes. 🎉 keep it up
Thanksss for this!!!!
My pleasure!
Love it bro, thanks.
You bet
My personal take is that it was a Myrddraal that snuck up on Mat. The figure seemed to materialize from the shadows, and I don't think the books ever made a firm declaration of how far a fade could move through shadows. I wondered if Fades could move other objects with them, but they'd have to move their weapons, armor, and horses all the time, no? Ofc there are ways Lanfear could've transported him; and someone else pointed out that one of Alanna's warders used a gesture that was referenced in the books by Aran'gar. Very interesting indeed.
Lol @ that SpongeBob scene you put in 😂
In some scenes, it looked like siuane was being serious and moiraine didn’t think she was because she ‘loves her too much’ and would let her do what she wants. I don’t know what’s in store for episode 8 but I’m dying to find out!!
I'm concerned that Compulsion may be the answer to too many things. Spoiler: As in the books, M and S do not see each other till the bitter end, I'm not concerned with Ep7 finale. I'm curious about the Anvere? / Barthanes arc come S4 if it occurs. So much to consider after I see S2E8. Thanks Lauren. BTB, no self respecting Aiel would allow themselves to be seen walking on the crest of a ridge. Just saying.
Lol
I don't see Compulsion being the answer: We know from the weird writing in the Book of Novices that people under Compulsion aren't "all there" in terms of their behavior. No one in the books would have anywhere near the power or skill required to weave so thorough a Compulsion on Siuan to control her behavior so precisely, including all of the emotion on her face during her scene with Moiraine, without turning them into a zombie. Even Graendal couldn't do it.
Your comment about AS inventing the great game is eye opening
If I could give you 5 thumbs up I would. You gave voice to so many of my own thoughts about this episode. Something is up with Suian. She has looked exhausted this whole season. One thing I thought about was she was supposedly in Caemlyn. Without book spoilers could she have been poisoned against Rand there
Hmmmm... great thought!
Great as usual! Thank you so much. I can't wait for the season finale later. AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Also, wondering what will happen to Verin since she kinda lied to get the other Aes Sedai to go to Siuan. Not sure if it's considered lying already.
On Siuan and Moiriane-
I think it’s a mix of the three, in a way. I think Ishy sowed the seeds of distrust and false hope and rash actions in Siuan and with Moiraine pushing everyone away this only grew the seeds.
I think Siuan’s ability to attack Lan rests on that she must see Lan as compromised, just as she accuses Moiraine. Not that she truly believes it, but cannot make sense of things. How strongly she felt is also replicated in how her commands toward Moiraine grew (otherwise, Moiraine would have closed the way gate immediately).
Basically, Ishy is toying w/ Siuan and Moiraine into acting early (rush to the Eye, announce Rand as Dragon, compromise their carefully laid plans).
While I’d say it’s better to show, not tell, it was probably something to do with the actress’ availability or screentime limits.
Mostly speculation and analysis, but I figure Ishy has some level of involvement because how else is Moiraine useful to him.
He knows about Min’s visions and these prophecies, so I assume he’s probably nudging key people in certain ways in a variety of ways.
Wonder if the cloaked concusser was Maksim. Re. Lanfear's little secret, I think show notes on TAR indicate that it's possible ro travel long distances via the world of dreams.
19:22 and moraine told Rand to call landfill. Right when Verin left them go, Moiraine said do you think Lanfear can help you get out of here? And he contacted lanfear with moraine's knowledge
After breaking, you can put yourself back together. I like that forged comment.
Why was Rand only shielded by one Aes Sedai? You can justify that as him being inexperienced and not knowing how to break the shield. Even so, not having three or more sisters shielding him is risky. Maybe the other Aes Sedai were too busy with protecting Cairhien and they planned to have a stronger shield on him later.
Someone on Reddit pointed out what appears to be a plot hole. This season, Lan said something along the lines of ”eight Aes Sedai are needed a still a woman”. But, at the very beginning of the series, Liandrin and four other Reds gentle a man, most likely linked together.
The actor list on IMDB for episode 8 implies that we probably won’t see Cairhien in the finale. We may not get confirmation for any theory about Siuan’s actions.
I could kind of see this as something like what happens in the books, where they say thirteen AS are needed to shield/gentle a man, but that it is more custom than reality.
It could be something like -- Tower Law says eight AS must be used to still a woman, in the sense that it is like a jury and they must all agree, and the misinterpretation that has persisted through the years is that eight AS are physically necessary.
Hi Lauren, do you know how their mailing systems work? I find it quite incredible that they can send letters to each other the same way we do today. In the medieval times, it was pretty hard to send and receive letters just from anywhere.
I really enjoyed this video. Wondering if someone could explain what “the last battle is” or would that be a spoiler? I have not read the books yet, but I’ve watch the show many times. Still not clear what it is.
It's the prophesied "final battle" between the Dark One and the Dragon that should end the Age
In universe the Last Battle is also called Tarmon Gai'don, and you can see how close that old-tongue phrase is to the real-world word "Armageddon," aka the end of the freakin world 😁
I kinda don’t think that was siuan at the end there. Maybe someone shapeshifted in to her? Can they do that? I haven’t read the books.
But I’m imagining the beginning of the next episode maybe the real siuan will finally arrive and discover the imposter, maybe it was Liadrin?
That would explain attacking lan, and if moiraine thought it really was siuan maybe the oath would still apply. Idk I’m spitballing here
Yes, that is possible! Where is Liandrin?
Pretty cool summary however i would say read & reread the books many times could not do so with the shows certain episodes for sure but on the whole no just to much higgledy piggledy for me but still trying
Bain to Perrin, "Sit boy."
What is the song you use in your outro? Big fan of your channel 🎉
It's called "The End of All Things" I think. It comes from a stock audio music site I use called Epidemic Sound.
I found it weird that Lanfear would just let Moraine and Lan come with them. Especially after trying to separate them from Rand in earlier episodes.
There's a reason for it, which will become more clear in the finale I think.
@@UnravelingthePattern Watched the finale. So awesome and satisfying. And yes, Lanfear had a plan. I think they needed to execute this part better though. They've already established the fear and dread Moraine has for Lanfear. And they just casually joined her her with hardly a concern. At least they should have tried to force themselves to join for Rand's sake. Lanfear pretends to stops them. Rand starts whinging and Lanfear relents and lets them come. I think that would have been a better sell to the audience. Can't wait for your Ep8 Unravel!
I’d like to believe that Moiraine and Siuan are still working together, although narratively it would make more sense that they are now opposing each other. My favorite parts of the books (that I feel like the show has not yet portrayed well enough) is just how much Moiraine manipulates everyone around her, up to the most mundane things. I always think back to the first book where they were traveling from the Two Rivers and Rand was furious that no matter how set he was on not doing any chores that evening she always found a way to make them do the chores. There is a reason why common folk is always set on not trusting Aes Sedai, and I would love to see more of Moiraine controlling the narrative. This season it felt like she was more dragged along
About Thomas: from books, we know his special role and why he became a Warder of Verin. So everything is possible
Yep! But this is show-only spoilers 🤗
@@UnravelingthePattern ok, sorry 🤪🤫
I hope we still get the missing episodes from season 2 Unraveled!
We will! I'm actually finally back to it and will hopefully have a new video soon!
We do need a Rand Lanfear GoT cave scene❤️
the don't ship in the books, so this Rand who does nothing and is weak and already shacks up with her....sure go ahead, make Rafe happy and root for that.
@@jonahdav9589 ahh. Boo hoo. You feeling hurt. Go watch something else😊
Im still not convinced Siuan would want to cage Rand forever. She tells him that's protocol and he freaks out, but we don't know how much she believes in it. I am leaning toward theory 2, i do believe rand meeting siuan was a song and dance to help him to trust moiraine more since he naturally has distrust toward the aes sedai, and so the amyrlin seat being a bit authoritarian gives him a meanie to be against.
I thought that Siuan thought that Morain had lied to her, a sign that Morain was in the Black Ajah. She forced Moraine's obedience to test this theory.
Even though its different in the books. I am sailing on the suian and morraine ship and i wont be mad if they continue their relationship for the whole show
Theory three is my vote
Please continue to show that shot of Rand tied to the wheel whenever it is even vaguely relevant to what you are talking about, and occasionally even when it isn't :)
Hear, hear! 😍
Not going to lie, I was very upset about Siuan. I don’t mind plot changes that seem consistent, but I have a lot of trouble with big changes to character like Lan moping and complaining about Moraine and Siuan compelling Moiraine. Not sure how a twist would work for Siuaraine because it was not a twist for Lan, he was not faking that. Siuan should have guided Rand to untie it. I certainly also predicted that would happen right after S1E8. I also read the scene asking M about suicide as caring not detecting, but it does come in the middle of his detecting. I think we needed more setup for all that such as Liandrin standing next to Siuan and Lan asking Verin questions about stilling when they talked about it before.
We saw Verin talking to Lan about stilling. We saw Verin asking Sheriam about a book on stilling. I think there was more off screen research and talking. We might even get a deleted scene after the season is over with more of Lan's detecting.
Loved this video! One thing I was surprised to hear was your praise for "expert handling" of the ji-e-toh scene.
As this is only the second time viewers have been exposed to the concept, I think it was a pretty poor example which I think will leave most nonbook-readers confused. The way Aviendha explains the situation, it clearly wasn't her fault. Certainly maidens (and Aviendha specifically) take things too far, but I feel like the best time to display that is after the viewer has a solid understanding of the concept.
Also, how often is toh resolved witwa beating? The only examples I can remember without research involve lying so I'm less confident about this one, I just thought it a beating was a lame way to display resolving toh for letting someone die, especially if it came about from making a dishonorable decision, which Aviendha did not make.
Anyway, just my two cents on how this scene did not land for me. I'm glad if it did for others!
I do not think the maiden beating is a good example of ji'e'toh, but it is an impactful example. I suspect it will stick with viewers, and then when we meet more aiel and go to the waste next season we will get to see more moderate examples of honor and obligation.
Final point I'd like to make as we anxiously await the finale: Thinking back to the books, I cannot imagine a more difficult episode to adapt to television than the conclusion of The Great Hunt. There is so much complexity, so much that works on the page but feels like it wouldn't translate well to the screen. I don't envy the writers the task of meeting all our high expectations for the finale, and I'm girding my loins for at least a little disappointment!
well one thing that botherd me was that the leader of the aes seday where there with 14 weavers right, but at the end she was just walking alone ? weird.
Personally I saw Lan as being a detective when he was talking to Moiraine about being stilled
I need season 4 now 😢😢
HELP - Can anyone tell me what Siuan says at 00:57:15 of this episode (S2E7)?
Is it just me or is Verin wearing black gloves when Yassica gives her the Ogier map of the city. . . 🤔
S2 is so killer.
Lauren, I really like you and your videos. And i am not a show hater. But man c'mon there is no excuse for a channeler of Siuans caliber to be able to keep a shield on Rand no matter how inexperienced he is. The power difference is so vast it shouldn't have been a problem.
I think it all boils down to Rand's lack of understanding about the power and his mentality at this point in the show. He had barely embraced saidin when Siuan knocked him down with the shield. Then she went on and on about how he was still weak, had learned nothing, a single aes sedai could handle him like bait fish. I do not think he ever even tried to break out of the shield after that. Also, the show is definitely setting it up so that Rand will "get stronger" as he learns and pushes his limits. Different than the books, but I think it will make it easy to show the TV audience his progression since it is easier to show bigger/brighter than just more complicated.
20:17 A beard? Almost certainly a Darkfriend... Oh, Tomas!
(He is an, albeit repentant, like Verin) Darkfriend in the books.
Im bit confused...can anyone explain.. rand is much eager to help egwene but why moraine is helping rand ..?
Lanfear and ishamel wants rand to be shown to falme but rand is doing ir for them ..?
Why alana and verin is also helping moraine ...amrylin said ramd is the power weapon but y are they going to falme ..?