Oh sorry, I commented below before watching to the end. Hot air is more active and excited than cold air so it actually drives the moisture out. Cool air is not only less excited molecularly but it's also denser, thicker ... so after drying the moisture will creep back in slowly. Also the dry fillament is taking up the moisture so its a whole system of equilibrium in there. It's perfectly logical for it to dry out quicker under heat treatment, and to take back up moisture more slowly. Your good, it works. Well done ! ... and thanks !
From other videos I've seen, the spool holder is there for people down want to have them sitting on the rollers. You can use either the spool holder or the rollers depending on which works best for your filament spools.
Good video. I was researching dryers before settling on the PolyDryer and yes there needs to be some venting to release the hot air with moisture. Some dryers will even condensate on the inside of the box when heated because they are not vented. What I read was that the engineers at Polymaker found that the interface between the bottom dryer unit and the top box leaked enough to provide the necessary venting ... but the customers in market testing cried so much for venting holes that they went ahead and put some on the side of the dryer unit. You can see them right there in the background over his shoulder. @33:55
the spool holder has 2 uses: small diameter spools that can't use the axle rollers at the bottom, and for spools with damaged edges that won't roll smoothly on the axle rollers (more common w/ cardboard spools, but one bad drop of a plastic spool can crack or chip an edge too). haven't watched all the video yet, but they do ship with 'rechargeable' desiccant, so you can dry out & reuse the desiccant just by popping a few of the holder boxes out of the front notches & setting it in the box on the dryer w/o filament in it (leave the beads in the holders, just turn the vent holes up so air can circulate). don't remember the power & duration settings for doing that off the top of my head.
The AMS mod is a good idea for a box full of PLA, imho. If you started trying to dry at a high temperature and/or mix materials with different drying temperatures (especially if dramatically different) then having a single chamber can be a PITA. You've identified one of the key problems with multi-material and the new high-end printers that are tailored for engineering materials. Boxes aren't designed to work with multi-material units, and those units aren't made to dry filament. I guess their solution is understandable (i.e. using the AMS to try to keep dry filament dry ... but not dry it). Something to consider: chameleon3D MIGHT work with a few dry boxes that you can print directly from. I don't have one, they cost a ton to get to Australia, so can't really get one to play with. Maybe a future AMS mod project could be a modular box mod? :) Thanks for the content....keep making!
I really like the polymaker design! I think it's the first dryer I've seen that solves all of the issues including venting which most manufacturers forget about for some reason, and some problems I never thought of (the moveable heater is genius). Once I talk my wife into this purchase, I will use your link, thanks! The only downside is the huge wall-wart for powering it. But that's not a big deal, and in some ways it's nice because if the P.S.burns out for some reason, it should be easy to replace.
I agree. It’s a pain to have a few of them plugged into a power strip for instance but you’re totally right! This dryer is totally the way in my opinion. So happy to have you hanging around friend!
Personally i think you should continue using dessicant on top of this. i think you'll be able to remove moisture faster and also keep it dry longer when the heater isn't running
43:05 add a condenser spiral to the output. If moist air is escaping the vent, it should condense to visible water when passing the ice cold spiral. Use glass for visibility or copper.
You could weigh the roles of filaments before and after drying to see if there noisture content has changed. Its posible withought enough ventilation that moisture could end up deeper inside of the filaments / move evenly distributed rather than just near the surface. Maybe dunk some old filaments in warm water for a while like madewithlayers did
Great video! And you're much braver than me... I don't know that I could have drilled into the AMS case. You know what the holy grail would be, though? An integrated dryer that took input from the hygrometer and kicked on when the humidity hit a set point, then turned off when it got low enough.
That would be peak for sure. That would all but eliminate the need for desiccant because the dryer would just kick on after you do filament swaps and stuff. Some day perhaps... Thanks for stopping by my friend. Happy to have you around!
Also this short helps explain my idea The Mod Your A1 Mini NEEDS NOW #3dprinteraccessories #3dprinted #polymaker #3dprinting #tpufilament th-cam.com/users/shortsCB9O5jykvdc?feature=share
No there’s no reason it needs to be flat. I wanted mine to be so I could use the screen and buttons like normal but it can totally be set on its side and stuff
dude next time tape the holes up and cut off the sides of tape or cut the inner sides of the hole diameter for a smaller hole of the tape and the use the cut out of the tape to make the holes perfect next time time
Good video, interesting project! Question: do the vent holes mean the system isn't sealed and moist air can get back in when the dryers aren't running?
You are probably right. With that being the case, it does take quite a while for the moisture ingress to occur in my experience with this setup. But for sure, that would be the case. I have just never left it longer than a week or so without opening the lid
I’ll always try to do as much of the heavy lifting as possible in CAD. That way when I print it in a year from now, I don’t need to worry about slicer settings or anything. That model is good to go baby!
@@WindedWalruss93 how am I overcomplicating it by only adding supports where I need it rather than letting the software put them everywhere, I think you don't know what you're talking about or you don't own a 3D printer
That's an assumption. A dryer requiring a way to actually remove the moisture, instead of just heating the air, is a fact. Facts trump assumptions. Obviously, comments like "that won't work" aren't great. Comments like "Just keep in mind that you need vents because X and Y" are. Even if the vents are there, it's still good for other people to read a constructive comment and learn why a system like this needs vents, because instinctively many people would want to seal it up as much as possible, to make sure the heat stays in.
@timderks5960 The fact is the poly-dryer works. Many people use the poly-dryer to dry their filaments. Assuming it doesn't dry filament properly just shows how little experience people have with this drier. Adding it to the AMS is only changing drying time, nothing else. The polymaker drying element works as designed in an of itself. The commenters are to full of themselves to notice
@@rkwjunior2298 It warms the volume, thereby allowing the moisture to get out of the filament into the air, but then the moist air either needs to exit (vent) OR - and that's what Polymaker seems to be betting more on - get absorbed by the dessicant ... until the dessicant is saturated that is.
Do you think it’d be worth adding TPU gaskets for the under-mounted final solution? Or would that be total overkill/add unnecessary stress to the AMS base? Either way this was a wild ride and I love that you got a great solution at the end (and an awesome niche solution for folks who don’t have the vertical space to spare for the final solution. I think people forget how much goes into a process/how many iterations it takes to get to a workable/good solution, let alone to an ideal one. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into developing this. I hope you get that Bambu affiliate code…but tbh I think Bambu would just be kicking themselves that they didn’t produce the solution themselves. It certainly wouldn’t surprise me if they come out with something similar in future. Thankyou for putting the work in so that others don’t have these issues
Thanks for the kind words and consideration; I am ecstatic to have you along for the ride! As for the use of a TPU gasket solution beneath the AMS, that is something that I am looking to develop in the future. That would serve two ends, better sealing of course, but also helping create a provision for a plug for those holes when not in use. So yes, I think you are absolutely on the right track!
You say the humidity has gone "down" at 23:49. Although technically correct, if we assume you meant relative humidity, the actual amount of moisture in the air has gone up. 60% at 22C is just under 10g of water per kg of air, 43% at 28C is closer to 10,5g per kg of air. I get the point, and this is a test and just the start of the drying cycle. Just pointing out that a lower RH doesn't always mean less moisture. But you already know this. Also, I don't think you actually need a gasket between the print and the AMS. Like has been discussed down below, you need vents or a desiccant to actually dry the contents instead of just heating it to temporarily lower the RH, so a leak between the connection doesn't really matter. Obviously, a sealed system with desiccant is better, since it doesn't allow air leaking back in. However, heating desiccant does release moisture from it, so it'd probably take a lot of testing to figure out the best tradeoff. Raising the temperature and lowering the RH and then sealing the system with dessicant is probably the best option. About the positive pressure inside the AMS: There isn't any. The fan in the dryer is just a circulation fan, it only moves the air. To pressurize, you need to add air, which can only be done by pushing in air from the outside. 43:00 You wouldn't necessarily see condensation. You'd see an increase in RH, since the moisture has moved from the filament to the air and doesn't get absorbed by the filament again as quickly. Condensation however only happens when there's a surface of a temperature below the dew point in the AMS. It can definitely happen, but I wouldn't expect to see it in the AMS due to the temps and volume involved. Unless the room it's in is pretty cold of course.
You are correct but keep on watching. I reveal a bit more pseudo testing (if you can call anything im doing testing) and some numbers after the temperature in the system has normalized so we can get a more apples to apples comparison!
@@KeoPrints I've been constantly editing my comment to reflect all the new info as I'm watching. I'm quite impressed by your reply to constructive criticism, very few people are actually humble enough to properly use it.
Ahh the catch 22 of the humility comment. I appreciate it but certainly struggle like anyone I’m sure. I think it’s important to try and learn from everything and that’s hard to do if you’re busy being offended lol. So yes I welcome the criticism and truly appreciate you taking the time to hang out and share your thoughts!
Hi KeoPrints, Firstly, an excellent video However, I’m unsure if you have fully understood all the information supplied by ‘timdereks5960’. Understanding ‘relative humidity’ is the key to understanding the process of drying filament. The question raised repeatedly “where does the moisture go to” can be easily answered. In a heated, sealed system, it doesn’t go anywhere. However, a hydrometer will indicate a lower ‘relative humidity’ reading. To reiterate, the amount of moisture in the AMS/whatever remains the same, if however the container holds a desiccant, in this case Silica Gel, this will absorb the moisture. So the solution is to load, in my, and your case, the AMS, with as much silica gel as possible. Incidentally the silica gel will not release the moisture it has absorbed until it is heated, which can be done in an oven at a temperature of 60°C (140°F) for six to seven hours or 120°C (250°F) for one to two hours. Conversely this can also be achieved in a microwave, LOW setting, for say 10 minutes, stirring every few minutes. This can be checked by weighing the silica gel until it remains the same i.e. it contains no moisture. I have an AMS, and keep 4 rolls of filament in it, the RH is held at 10%, for weeks, it’s a sealed system so the only time moisture enters it is when I open it, to change a roll, when it rises a couple of points, but this soon reduces. When the RH eventually rises to say 15%, I replace the silica gel and then regenerate the removed silica gel in the microwave. Part used spools are kept in a resealable plastic container, loaded with silica gel. Bambu Handy also reports the humidity in the AMS to be (1), the lowest, which confirms my belief that I’m doing it right, Land without the need to cut holes in my AMS, purchase heaters, or print anything.
I loved this video. Thanks for sharing. You can up your game with 10 words that convey better meaning than 'sucks': disappointing, frustrating, unfortunate, underwhelming, annoying, dismal, disheartening, aggravating, devastating, and irritating.
Yeah you're probably jealous that this channel is more successful than yours. This is actually entertaining. You should make more videos so people can fall asleep faster.
Thanks for hanging around friend. If you check out the three original videos that this one is based on, they’re shorter. It was fun to compile them all into this one and provide a bit of an update. Thanks for slugging through anyway!
Oh sorry, I commented below before watching to the end. Hot air is more active and excited than cold air so it actually drives the moisture out. Cool air is not only less excited molecularly but it's also denser, thicker ... so after drying the moisture will creep back in slowly. Also the dry fillament is taking up the moisture so its a whole system of equilibrium in there. It's perfectly logical for it to dry out quicker under heat treatment, and to take back up moisture more slowly. Your good, it works. Well done ! ... and thanks !
Haha thanks for watching to the end friend. Happy to have you hanging around
From other videos I've seen, the spool holder is there for people down want to have them sitting on the rollers. You can use either the spool holder or the rollers depending on which works best for your filament spools.
I was wondering if that was the case. I just leave them out personally
Good video. I was researching dryers before settling on the PolyDryer and yes there needs to be some venting to release the hot air with moisture. Some dryers will even condensate on the inside of the box when heated because they are not vented. What I read was that the engineers at Polymaker found that the interface between the bottom dryer unit and the top box leaked enough to provide the necessary venting ... but the customers in market testing cried so much for venting holes that they went ahead and put some on the side of the dryer unit. You can see them right there in the background over his shoulder. @33:55
the spool holder has 2 uses: small diameter spools that can't use the axle rollers at the bottom, and for spools with damaged edges that won't roll smoothly on the axle rollers (more common w/ cardboard spools, but one bad drop of a plastic spool can crack or chip an edge too).
haven't watched all the video yet, but they do ship with 'rechargeable' desiccant, so you can dry out & reuse the desiccant just by popping a few of the holder boxes out of the front notches & setting it in the box on the dryer w/o filament in it (leave the beads in the holders, just turn the vent holes up so air can circulate). don't remember the power & duration settings for doing that off the top of my head.
The AMS mod is a good idea for a box full of PLA, imho. If you started trying to dry at a high temperature and/or mix materials with different drying temperatures (especially if dramatically different) then having a single chamber can be a PITA.
You've identified one of the key problems with multi-material and the new high-end printers that are tailored for engineering materials. Boxes aren't designed to work with multi-material units, and those units aren't made to dry filament. I guess their solution is understandable (i.e. using the AMS to try to keep dry filament dry ... but not dry it).
Something to consider: chameleon3D MIGHT work with a few dry boxes that you can print directly from. I don't have one, they cost a ton to get to Australia, so can't really get one to play with. Maybe a future AMS mod project could be a modular box mod? :)
Thanks for the content....keep making!
10/10 comment. Thoughtful response that adds to the conversation. Happy to have you around friend!
I really like the polymaker design! I think it's the first dryer I've seen that solves all of the issues including venting which most manufacturers forget about for some reason, and some problems I never thought of (the moveable heater is genius). Once I talk my wife into this purchase, I will use your link, thanks! The only downside is the huge wall-wart for powering it. But that's not a big deal, and in some ways it's nice because if the P.S.burns out for some reason, it should be easy to replace.
I agree. It’s a pain to have a few of them plugged into a power strip for instance but you’re totally right! This dryer is totally the way in my opinion. So happy to have you hanging around friend!
Man I love this video. Nothing like accidental awesomeness
So good! Thanks for hanging around friend
Personally i think you should continue using dessicant on top of this. i think you'll be able to remove moisture faster and also keep it dry longer when the heater isn't running
43:05 add a condenser spiral to the output. If moist air is escaping the vent, it should condense to visible water when passing the ice cold spiral. Use glass for visibility or copper.
This is an interesting idea. Totally cool!
Great video. Would love to see periodic updates on this to see the longterm success/failure. Like in 4 years if it would still be strong.
If you could take a lid riser and combine it with this model you made then you wouldn't have to cut into the AMS.
You could weigh the roles of filaments before and after drying to see if there noisture content has changed.
Its posible withought enough ventilation that moisture could end up deeper inside of the filaments / move evenly distributed rather than just near the surface.
Maybe dunk some old filaments in warm water for a while like madewithlayers did
Yea that’s a great video. I love his stuff! Totally learned a lot of my stuff from Tom
Great video! And you're much braver than me... I don't know that I could have drilled into the AMS case.
You know what the holy grail would be, though? An integrated dryer that took input from the hygrometer and kicked on when the humidity hit a set point, then turned off when it got low enough.
That would be peak for sure. That would all but eliminate the need for desiccant because the dryer would just kick on after you do filament swaps and stuff. Some day perhaps...
Thanks for stopping by my friend. Happy to have you around!
Great video. thank you.
What is that mod on the AMS lite? i cant find it in your videos. Is it for TPU printhing ? can you share it?
Sure that is what I use for printing TPU!
The Major Flaw With The Bambu AMS Lite And How To Fix It FAST
th-cam.com/video/shBDtFlbp_A/w-d-xo.html
Also this short helps explain my idea
The Mod Your A1 Mini NEEDS NOW #3dprinteraccessories #3dprinted #polymaker #3dprinting #tpufilament
th-cam.com/users/shortsCB9O5jykvdc?feature=share
Love this idea. And love your video I think your hilarious 😂subscribed!
So happy to hear it! Thanks for hanging out friend!
does the heater part need to be level with the ground or vould you turn it 180 degrees
No there’s no reason it needs to be flat. I wanted mine to be so I could use the screen and buttons like normal but it can totally be set on its side and stuff
This tube is for the smaller spools.. like 500g spools, that are too little to sit propperly on the rollers😅
Ahh fair enough
Then use smaller spools. Duh
dude next time tape the holes up and cut off the sides of tape or cut the inner sides of the hole diameter for a smaller hole of the tape and the use the cut out of the tape to make the holes perfect next time time
Edge of my seat!
LOL you should call this "The entire AMS DRYER SAGA" or somiething ;P
You don't need to vent the AMS. The polydryer you are using has side vents to expel the moisture.
Exactly
Victory.... i meant progress!!!!!!
You betcha
Good video, interesting project! Question: do the vent holes mean the system isn't sealed and moist air can get back in when the dryers aren't running?
You are probably right. With that being the case, it does take quite a while for the moisture ingress to occur in my experience with this setup. But for sure, that would be the case. I have just never left it longer than a week or so without opening the lid
Vent holes are literally in the product video: th-cam.com/video/fsewkOm9ov0/w-d-xo.html
I only use manual supports because you don't have to use support blockers you just add supports where you need them, done
I’ll always try to do as much of the heavy lifting as possible in CAD. That way when I print it in a year from now, I don’t need to worry about slicer settings or anything. That model is good to go baby!
You're overcomplicating it dude
@@WindedWalruss93 how am I overcomplicating it by only adding supports where I need it rather than letting the software put them everywhere, I think you don't know what you're talking about or you don't own a 3D printer
Don't the desiccant beeds absorb the moisture.
As long as you have fresh desiccant in there. Not that I ever let mine get saturated and never restore it so it doesn’t do anything…
Polymaker wouldn't make a dryer with no vent holes. The TH-cam Genuises in the comments didn't think of that.
It stood to reason that the thing would have vent holes
That's an assumption. A dryer requiring a way to actually remove the moisture, instead of just heating the air, is a fact. Facts trump assumptions. Obviously, comments like "that won't work" aren't great. Comments like "Just keep in mind that you need vents because X and Y" are. Even if the vents are there, it's still good for other people to read a constructive comment and learn why a system like this needs vents, because instinctively many people would want to seal it up as much as possible, to make sure the heat stays in.
@timderks5960 The fact is the poly-dryer works. Many people use the poly-dryer to dry their filaments. Assuming it doesn't dry filament properly just shows how little experience people have with this drier.
Adding it to the AMS is only changing drying time, nothing else. The polymaker drying element works as designed in an of itself.
The commenters are to full of themselves to notice
@@rkwjunior2298 It warms the volume, thereby allowing the moisture to get out of the filament into the air, but then the moist air either needs to exit (vent) OR - and that's what Polymaker seems to be betting more on - get absorbed by the dessicant ... until the dessicant is saturated that is.
Solvol actually tells you to leave the top partly open for venting.
Do you think it’d be worth adding TPU gaskets for the under-mounted final solution? Or would that be total overkill/add unnecessary stress to the AMS base?
Either way this was a wild ride and I love that you got a great solution at the end (and an awesome niche solution for folks who don’t have the vertical space to spare for the final solution. I think people forget how much goes into a process/how many iterations it takes to get to a workable/good solution, let alone to an ideal one. I really appreciate the time and effort you put into developing this. I hope you get that Bambu affiliate code…but tbh I think Bambu would just be kicking themselves that they didn’t produce the solution themselves. It certainly wouldn’t surprise me if they come out with something similar in future.
Thankyou for putting the work in so that others don’t have these issues
Thanks for the kind words and consideration; I am ecstatic to have you along for the ride!
As for the use of a TPU gasket solution beneath the AMS, that is something that I am looking to develop in the future. That would serve two ends, better sealing of course, but also helping create a provision for a plug for those holes when not in use.
So yes, I think you are absolutely on the right track!
Overkill
You say the humidity has gone "down" at 23:49. Although technically correct, if we assume you meant relative humidity, the actual amount of moisture in the air has gone up. 60% at 22C is just under 10g of water per kg of air, 43% at 28C is closer to 10,5g per kg of air. I get the point, and this is a test and just the start of the drying cycle. Just pointing out that a lower RH doesn't always mean less moisture. But you already know this.
Also, I don't think you actually need a gasket between the print and the AMS. Like has been discussed down below, you need vents or a desiccant to actually dry the contents instead of just heating it to temporarily lower the RH, so a leak between the connection doesn't really matter. Obviously, a sealed system with desiccant is better, since it doesn't allow air leaking back in. However, heating desiccant does release moisture from it, so it'd probably take a lot of testing to figure out the best tradeoff. Raising the temperature and lowering the RH and then sealing the system with dessicant is probably the best option.
About the positive pressure inside the AMS: There isn't any. The fan in the dryer is just a circulation fan, it only moves the air. To pressurize, you need to add air, which can only be done by pushing in air from the outside.
43:00 You wouldn't necessarily see condensation. You'd see an increase in RH, since the moisture has moved from the filament to the air and doesn't get absorbed by the filament again as quickly. Condensation however only happens when there's a surface of a temperature below the dew point in the AMS. It can definitely happen, but I wouldn't expect to see it in the AMS due to the temps and volume involved. Unless the room it's in is pretty cold of course.
You are correct but keep on watching.
I reveal a bit more pseudo testing (if you can call anything im doing testing) and some numbers after the temperature in the system has normalized so we can get a more apples to apples comparison!
@@KeoPrints I've been constantly editing my comment to reflect all the new info as I'm watching. I'm quite impressed by your reply to constructive criticism, very few people are actually humble enough to properly use it.
Ahh the catch 22 of the humility comment. I appreciate it but certainly struggle like anyone I’m sure. I think it’s important to try and learn from everything and that’s hard to do if you’re busy being offended lol. So yes I welcome the criticism and truly appreciate you taking the time to hang out and share your thoughts!
Lots of good notes here my friend
Hi KeoPrints, Firstly, an excellent video However, I’m unsure if you have fully understood all the information supplied by ‘timdereks5960’.
Understanding ‘relative humidity’ is the key to understanding the process of drying filament. The question raised repeatedly “where does the moisture go to” can be easily answered. In a heated, sealed system, it doesn’t go anywhere. However, a hydrometer will indicate a lower ‘relative humidity’ reading. To reiterate, the amount of moisture in the AMS/whatever remains the same, if however the container holds a desiccant, in this case Silica Gel, this will absorb the moisture.
So the solution is to load, in my, and your case, the AMS, with as much silica gel as possible. Incidentally the silica gel will not release the moisture it has absorbed until it is heated, which can be done in an oven at a temperature of 60°C (140°F) for six to seven hours or 120°C (250°F) for one to two hours. Conversely this can also be achieved in a microwave, LOW setting, for say 10 minutes, stirring every few minutes. This can be checked by weighing the silica gel until it remains the same i.e. it contains no moisture.
I have an AMS, and keep 4 rolls of filament in it, the RH is held at 10%, for weeks, it’s a sealed system so the only time moisture enters it is when I open it, to change a roll, when it rises a couple of points, but this soon reduces. When the RH eventually rises to say 15%, I replace the silica gel and then regenerate the removed silica gel in the microwave.
Part used spools are kept in a resealable plastic container, loaded with silica gel.
Bambu Handy also reports the humidity in the AMS to be (1), the lowest, which confirms my belief that I’m doing it right, Land without the need to cut holes in my AMS, purchase heaters, or print anything.
I loved this video. Thanks for sharing. You can up your game with 10 words that convey better meaning than 'sucks': disappointing, frustrating, unfortunate, underwhelming, annoying, dismal, disheartening, aggravating, devastating, and irritating.
Yeah you're probably jealous that this channel is more successful than yours. This is actually entertaining. You should make more videos so people can fall asleep faster.
Sucks you feel that way….
Everything said in this video could have been said in 6 minutes.
It was all said in several groupings of 6 min
geez. the video didn't have to be this long. useful project though. but please, shorten your video's
Thanks for hanging around friend. If you check out the three original videos that this one is based on, they’re shorter. It was fun to compile them all into this one and provide a bit of an update. Thanks for slugging through anyway!
I disagree. I loved taking the ride with you! Great project, great outcome.