WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FLY LEATHER AND FLY X BOXING GLOVES?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ม.ค. 2021
  • video going through differences between Fly Sports Leather premium range and their cheaper FLY X LINE synthetic leather range
    Fly's Website: www.flysportsuk.com/
    For the Hoodie I'm wearing in this video: 10% off all orders over £80
    Boxraw's Website: uk.boxraw.com/fit2box
    Website:www.fit2boxchannel.com/
    Twitter: / fit2boxchannel
    Instagram: / fit2boxchannel
    Thank you for watching my channel.
    I hope you enjoy the video.
    My reviews are honest and unbiased
    I review all boxing related gear
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    Thanks for your ongoing support
  • กีฬา

ความคิดเห็น • 138

  • @timonidas4534
    @timonidas4534 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    100% these feel better than any gloves I've tried before. I have the line x and got the custom leather ones ordered.
    Great informative review.

  • @ronbabunbaunba4833
    @ronbabunbaunba4833 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    People always have something "smart" to say ... People are just like that! They think that since you are English and because you have a YT channel where yu rewiev gloves, Fly sends you free gloves to you and then you talk all the best about them and provide them the best advertisement ... That's why people think you're biased, but I don't believe so, I think you work well and honestly and I appreciate and respect your work and I love your channel!

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thank you I really appreciate the kind words🙌🏼
      People who watch my channel know that I give credit where credit is due regardless of the country the product is from
      Anyone who has bought or tryed FLY knows what I’m saying is true
      Fly gear is class
      Any brands will tell you I don’t do this for free gear
      I do this to help people get the best boxing gear for them

  • @rab7991
    @rab7991 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    How is the wrist support on the superloop compare to the superlace? I got a superloop on the way but now I'm thinking I should have got the laceup

  • @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667
    @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    A new review on the premium line said they don't have much structure to them. I wanted him to try the X Line because it sounds like the padding is stiffer which would provide more structure.

  • @h3nry151
    @h3nry151 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    could you do a review of the ampro boxing gloves form amazon

  • @Rudypoo42
    @Rudypoo42 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I am looking to upgrade (Everlast Elite "pro"). I just never thought upgrading would still mean synthetic leather made in china @ $150 american dollars.

  • @braisrivasdono8419
    @braisrivasdono8419 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi man, are you tested the prize ring cheek protector? Do you recommend this or the top boxer warrior? Thanks amd happy new year.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Happy new year
      Not been sparring but I’m going to say prize ring 👍🏼

  • @NACNUD1986
    @NACNUD1986 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please try do a review of the FLY fight gloves mate nobody has done this yet 🙏🏻

  • @JG8083
    @JG8083 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Would the x line hold up to heavy use on the heavy bag for 4 days a week ? Or should I go with the leather version

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      These are very durable

  • @johnwhitedud8024
    @johnwhitedud8024 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Happy new year

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Happy new year 🎉

  • @lewisbeattie2533
    @lewisbeattie2533 ปีที่แล้ว

    Better value on paper not paying VAT, but most countries have import minimums and the duties on that can be even more expensive than VAT.

  • @satellite3253
    @satellite3253 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did the premium gloves padding feel stiff when u first got them? I have x line and padding is quite hard... I'm almost convinced that different foams were used in x line.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      No just use them and they will soften up lovely👍🏼

    • @delrichardson8365
      @delrichardson8365 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I find them wayyyy to tight. Not even usable. Cant clench fist and hurts my palms. Size 14 oz I have I'm the real leather ones.

  • @simonsi1587
    @simonsi1587 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Mate is it me or the Superlace 16oz looks bit bigger than the 16oz synthetic leather ? thanks

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Maybe slightly
      I didn’t notice when using them 👍🏼

  • @Rudypoo42
    @Rudypoo42 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Price wise the leather are the same as winning and the synthetic are the same as cleto reyes. Does that seem to represent the quality of these gloves at their price point?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Check out my website
      Fit2boxchannel.com
      Where all the gloves are rated and ranked in my Fit2box price divisions

  • @abdul-hakeem1
    @abdul-hakeem1 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How long have u had the lace and loop fly blue and gold ones as the colours dulled a lot?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      No The colours haven’t dulled at all 🤷🏻‍♂️
      The leather are turquoise and gold 👍🏼
      The new X line are Blue and gold👍🏼

    • @shropsiberian
      @shropsiberian 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Different gloves 👍🏻

  • @KingGGaming762
    @KingGGaming762 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I just got some Oxblood Super lace gloves coming in the mail 🔥 can’t wait

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Remember the ox blood are stiffer than normal fly so they will take some breaking in before they soften up and are at their best

    • @KingGGaming762
      @KingGGaming762 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box yeah I heard about that before I got them! What else would you say about Oxblood good or bad , do you think the leather is too thick?

    • @KingGGaming762
      @KingGGaming762 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box and do you think once I break them in they won’t be as stiff? I got them because they looks so durable and I love the color.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@KingGGaming762 once you break them in they will be lovely

    • @user-nm1hc2my6w
      @user-nm1hc2my6w 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@KingGGaming762 how are they? I have some on the way myself.

  • @evansboxing5762
    @evansboxing5762 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have wide palms and long thumbs. I’m 6’4” 220. I know you are my height do these gloves have enough room in the thumb?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      My 16oz are fine
      consider maybe 18oz

  • @omarnawaz1946
    @omarnawaz1946 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    @Fit2Box hope you are well mate, if you only had a choice betwenn the phenom sg200 and the fly superloop x and primarily will be doing bag work. Which glove would you choose?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Hmmm it’s close actually the phenom more protective the fly x more feel
      On my ratings card I have
      fly X 95 bag
      Phenom 94 bag

    • @omarnawaz1946
      @omarnawaz1946 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box as currently i have superloop x 12oz which i was gonna sell and then purchase a 14 or 16 oz due to being a heavy hitter plus the snugness of the 12oz is bit tight. But soon as i saw the sg200 it really caught my eye. Plus i dont live far from mad dogs shop so could buy local.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@omarnawaz1946 go in to mad dogs try the phenom on see what you think 👍🏼

    • @omarnawaz1946
      @omarnawaz1946 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box didnt even think of that lol. I will drop wayne a message and see if shop is open in tier 4 for click and collect. Thanks for your replies

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@omarnawaz1946 no worries Wayne will sort you out🙌🏼👍🏼

  • @jihoffman27
    @jihoffman27 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    How does the Fly padding compare to the Winning sparring glove padding? They appear to be a similar shape to a Winning, rather than a “Mexican” style squared off glove like a Reyes or Grant?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Similar in shape as you have identified
      Padding Durability I think winning is the best

    • @shahiboxing
      @shahiboxing 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Protection wise also Winning is 👍
      IDK what padding they use but its super protective. Fly does the work too. but winning slightly forward on that stage.

  • @tiviallies
    @tiviallies 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I got the fly x about a year ago. I got one pair of velcro and one pair of lace up. They are nice gloves the padding is very good. But on the both pairs the right them were all messed up the foam was bent down and in onto the thumb. To be honest it has not gotten much better with time still uncomfortable kinda ruins an otherwise great glove

    • @satellite3253
      @satellite3253 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Did the padding get softer than when I first got them? I recently got x and the padding is harder than I expected

  • @leegorman3329
    @leegorman3329 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    hi mate, i’m thinking of getting the fly superloop in white and gold in 16oz, are these worth the money?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Definitely

    • @leegorman3329
      @leegorman3329 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box i was set on getting a pair of winning in white, but for some reason i cant get a pair anywhere, they are both very expensive gloves but i’m battling between which one’s to buy, i have watched all your winning vs fly clips but would u still choose fly over winning? thanks

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@leegorman3329 my top glove is currently Fly SUPERLACE premium (leather)
      Winning rate right up there
      Winning scores Video update coming soon
      You will see from the scores in reality it is very close between winning and FLY

  • @charlesravenbautista3375
    @charlesravenbautista3375 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can i use Fly X line gloves velcro in heavy bag???

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Definitely

  • @Theasianwonder24
    @Theasianwonder24 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I walk around at 65kg and I’ve got the 14oz super loop gloves however I’m going to start sparring seriously soon - do you think it’s worthing getting a pair of laced fly 16oz gloves or can so get away with 14? Cheers

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Depends on what you coach gym say they want you to spar in
      Different gyms do have different rules

  • @romed.911
    @romed.911 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I wish i can choose one of those but i don't got that kind of money lol

  • @kilian519
    @kilian519 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Happy New year! 🥊

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Happy new year 👍🏼

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ronbabunbaunba4833 thanks for the kind words and for watching my channel
      Glad you are enjoying my videos
      Re Vat you would be better to seek guidance from Fly as they will be up to date on the latest rules especially given we have just come out of Europe due to brexit
      I’m fairly certain the checkout on the website would indicate whether you pay vat or not on the purchase as it will default to the correct price for you👍🏼

    • @ronbabunbaunba4833
      @ronbabunbaunba4833 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box Thank you for the quick answer! Now I just see how stupid my first question was lol... And I got one more question...What do you suggest to me,what should I buy Fly or Winning,durability is what matters to me I own a few Winning gloves,but I do not own Fly yet...so what is your advice to me?thank you for answer in advance!
      Edit:And yes I am interested in 16 oz premium Fly gloves. I have quite large hands, what do you think 16 oz Fly are suitable gloves for people with big hands, not thick hands but quite long fingers and a wide palm?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ronbabunbaunba4833 I think winning durability is second to none🙌🏼
      Fly has similar fit to winning so if your winning are comfortable so will be Fly
      You can see from my pound for pound list how highly I rate winning and fly
      www.fit2boxchannel.com/pound-for-pound
      Scroll down for full list 👍🏼

    • @ronbabunbaunba4833
      @ronbabunbaunba4833 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box woow nice...you have done that rankings very well!god job sir!thank you for you answering my question,90% of others on YT don't answer questions!you have a bigg like form me on every video!and I subscribed on your chanell!

  • @nicholasnarain5444
    @nicholasnarain5444 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey are you able to review the oxblood I’m looking at purchasing but it says it needs a break in period

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes I’ve heard that too

    • @nicholasnarain5444
      @nicholasnarain5444 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box do you know if they fit the same after the leather gets worked in a bit

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@nicholasnarain5444 yes they are just stiffer for a while at first

    • @nicholasnarain5444
      @nicholasnarain5444 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box thanks because I really like the colour

    • @mr.random6871
      @mr.random6871 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box is the padding different or is it just the leather , because I’m looking to buy a pair for sparing or should I just buy the black and gold

  • @dylanmd7917
    @dylanmd7917 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    FLYxFit2box= great vid

  • @monothemonkey
    @monothemonkey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I heard that the padding it's too compact and the piping in the thumb could be tight, I wear 16s but I was thinking of buying 18s cus ima use them for sparing only...

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      My 16s are fine but if you want to go 18oz go 18oz

    • @monothemonkey
      @monothemonkey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box oh i don't want to it's just worried about those two cons.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@monothemonkey unless you have massive hands my 16oz were fine

    • @monothemonkey
      @monothemonkey 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box nah im the Tommy hearts type, tall but Lanky, thanks fit

  • @Faisalkhan-pc9zd
    @Faisalkhan-pc9zd 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’ve got fly gloves the 180 ones and I got 16oz to spar with, i love them but they feel realllyyyy light on my hands. More than any other gloves I’ve ever used. And I searched into it and it said wbc are banning the gloves or something to do like that because they are too dangerous. Personally I love the gloves but I don’t want to be causing anyone serious harm just from sparring ?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      The wbc were investigating fly fight gloves
      I think they have been cleared after the investigation although the WBC have been quite about the investigation result
      There is absolutely nothing wrong with Fly gloves for fighting or sparring
      I wouldn’t recommend gloves that were not fit for purpose
      And Fly super lace and super loop are my Fit2box heavyweight price division champions
      So that’s tells you everything
      Fantastic gloves for training and sparring

    • @Faisalkhan-pc9zd
      @Faisalkhan-pc9zd 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box thank you for that 👍

    • @yuree08
      @yuree08 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@Faisalkhan-pc9zd how different are the hand compartments 16 vs 18? do the fingers go deeper with the 18? I also wanna get an 18

  • @grantdavenport7904
    @grantdavenport7904 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    How do these compare to cleto Reyes for bag work

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I’ve marked them a similar score Tbf
      www.fit2boxchannel.com/pound-for-pound
      Scroll down fir full list
      Bag scores on Fit2box ratings cards👍🏼

    • @carbonfiberfan
      @carbonfiberfan 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      For bags I like Reyes better

  • @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667
    @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    They started making the X Line in China and now the padding is different, stiff and firm now and it's hard to open the glove.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Is it ? I haven’t heard or seen that

    • @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667
      @wingoreviewsboxingandmma3667 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Fit2Box csquared boxing did a review on a a new pair he ordered recently. He had an older pair and brought up the difference in the padding being denser and the gloves being firmer and much harder to open your hands.
      Probably not the fault of Fly but most likely the Chinese manufacturer trying to cut corners.

  • @dallasvinson7331
    @dallasvinson7331 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Are these better than the clerk Reyes training gloves in 2023?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      www.fit2boxchannel.com/pound-for-pound
      My list is ALWAYS up to date on my website
      Scroll down for full list

  • @victormathewtv
    @victormathewtv 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Had the gloves in basket and flaffed around for an hour checking reviews online, now they’re out of stock. My heart is burning😭

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why Flaff around for an hour when my video is here? 🤦🏻‍♂️
      That suggests you don’t believe what I’m saying👀
      Now they are out of stock🤦🏻‍♂️
      There is a lesson there🤔
      Trust Fit2box channel🙌🏼
      No lies here just honest reviews 🙏🏼

    • @victormathewtv
      @victormathewtv 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box Yes Sir you are 100% correct, I’m just gonna go cry me a river now, winning is out of stock and now FLY is out of stock😭

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@victormathewtv I’m sure they will be back in stock soon

    • @victormathewtv
      @victormathewtv 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box do you have an idea how long? I’m urgent right now for gloves but I’m not gonna sell myself out for something less. Never ordered from FLY and heard they’re solid competitor against Winning

  • @delrichardson8365
    @delrichardson8365 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have both of these. The synthetic leather and most recently the more expensive leather. They are super tight like more tight than amy other gloves I've bought. To tight on my palms and can't even clench a fist properly. Size 14oz in leather. Size 12 is synthetic leather. How did they feel for you tight wise ? I'm worried they won't stretch at all with them being real leather. But as I cant even clench fist properly I camt use them right to bed them in

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      What height and weight are you?

    • @delrichardson8365
      @delrichardson8365 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box I'm 5'10 and 108kg. My hands aren't that big though. I'd say just average size hands. My 12oz synthetics leather superloops feel much better with more space. Weather that is becasue the synthetic stretches easier I'm not sure. Kind of gutted avout this with the amount if money I spent on the real leather.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@delrichardson8365 108kg you should be getting 16oz minimum 18oz probably better

    • @delrichardson8365
      @delrichardson8365 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box yes I understand that. My point is just that the 12oz synthetic leather feel better than the 14oz real lather. I do have 16oz synthetic also. Different gloves diffrent purposes. I just find it strange why the leather are super tight compared to the synthetic.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@delrichardson8365 send me pictures to my Instagram @fit2boxchannel
      I like to see what they are like

  • @joelshorts7673
    @joelshorts7673 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    What is the difference between loop and lace is they any benefit to one ?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      Tbh both give a great wrist fastening
      So it’s whether you need the convenience of velcro

    • @joelshorts7673
      @joelshorts7673 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box is the Velcro any better than then loop because both are convenient for me

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@joelshorts7673 loop is the Velcro
      If you need the convenience of Velcro go superloop

    • @joelshorts7673
      @joelshorts7673 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box I don’t need the convenience so witch one would you recommend

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  2 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@joelshorts7673 I rate both equally on the scores
      www.fit2boxchannel.com/pound-for-pound

  • @lawrencefox6719
    @lawrencefox6719 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Any chance I could get a pair for free

  • @ikeymo_36
    @ikeymo_36 ปีที่แล้ว

    Superloop x or adispeed 501

  • @zarbon389
    @zarbon389 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I ordered another pair of 16 oz fly x gloves in white. The left glove feels normal and feels similar to the first pair I bought , but in the right glove the padding feels stiffer, thicker, and heavier than my left glove. It is harder to open up the glove and I am right handed. Is this a common issue?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Have you used them? they will soften up

    • @zarbon389
      @zarbon389 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box not yet. I am sure my right glove will soften after using it . It just feels different than my last pair of fly gloves.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@zarbon389 give it a couple of good sessions on the bag see how you feel then , I’m currently testing some gloves (not fly) that were very uncomfortable when I first put them on I’ve done around 30 rounds in them and they have softened up lovely

    • @zarbon389
      @zarbon389 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box Thank you for your advice! at first I thought my left glove was a 16oz glove and my right was an 18oz.

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@zarbon389 are they different sizes what do they weigh?

  • @saceman2777
    @saceman2777 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    What does VAT stand for?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Value added tax
      It’s a tax on goods we have to pay in Uk 20%

    • @saceman2777
      @saceman2777 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box So, are all those Fly gloves yours?

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@saceman2777 yes👍🏼

    • @saceman2777
      @saceman2777 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Fit2Box Wow...

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      @@saceman2777 it is fair to say I love boxing equipment 🤣

  • @mrboxing
    @mrboxing 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    🏆💯🔝🥊👌🏼

  • @saif1980saif
    @saif1980saif 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Its shocking both hand differ and some are under weight

    • @Fit2Box
      @Fit2Box  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Slightly (quarter of an ounce one was half oz difference) different and Tbf that’s not unusual 🤷🏻‍♂️
      Reyes gloves for example are normally 2-3 oz wrong🤦🏻‍♂️

  • @shropsiberian
    @shropsiberian 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Happy New Year Fit2Box & to all here.
    I seem drawn to the suggestion that there is a biased element in the rating here due to it being a UK based company being reviewed by a UK based reviewer.
    Get your thumb out your ass & be objective. If you've ever tried on a pair of Fly & used them for sparring or bag work, then you'll know that they score high because....... they're a great glove.
    It's simple, not complicated & definitely not biased. Great glove & the X range at £180 is a steal.
    This kind of video is what sets Fit2Box leagues apart from any other reviewer. He's taking the time to cross examine the scores & make adjustments where they need to be made.
    I've seen other reviewers of late, with this brand as it goes, give a completely different score & all that's changed is a colourway. Useless.