I Went to a Hillclimb and Saw Some Really Weird Aerodynamics...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2016
- The other weekend I went to a hillclimb. Some of the aero was good, some was... interesting...
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Hello from a race car designer from England! It's always good to see to see other engineers critically evaluating what they see in the sport. It promotes discussion and development. The wing you looked at first of all with the sealed off "non multi-element" wing looks like actually a single element wing but the angle of attack is adjustable by moving only that rear element. The wing is fixed to the struts, the end plates are fixed to the wing and then the rear element adjusts by moving the bolt into the upper hole on the wing endplate.
James Mullen thats exactly what those are.
James Mullen wouldn't be hard to modify its position to make it a true twin
Dylan Zrim it's not meant to be a twin.
Dylan Zrim and the cars in historic class musst run former wingtypes. If they put a multi Wing on it they wouldn't be allowed to Start in the class they are
Yup, the wing is exactly the same on my car from the mid 90’s. It’s single element adjusted from the rear and suits the cars of that period.
Quick note on that F3 car. That kind of angle of attack is commonly used on Formula SAE or Formula Student cars. In some cases even more aggressive. At the relatively slow speeds seen in a hill climb, I am willing to bet it works on the same principle as our incredibly aggressive front wing. Basically we found that at least for our events the required efficiency of the aerodynamic devices was quite low, something around 2:1 downforce to drag ratio. And while that element stalls out, the high pressure created infront of it is sufficient enough to produce very large downforce. And due to the abundence of power, the increase in drag did not increase the lap time as much as the added downforce reduced it.
While I'm no engineer, I was thinking something similar. It occurred to me right away that the efficiency wouldn't matter that much and that it should still generate the downforce desired because at the tracks and speeds these guys are running at, the cars aren't going fast enough or fast enough for long enough for efficiency to matter that much.
Looks to me like both of the 2 element(ish) wings are there for adjustment rather than as an actual multi element setup. Both cases seem to have the front half rigidly attached to the endplates and the rear section able to be rotated to change the angle of attack. Seems to be more of a structural choice regarding fixing the front and having a solid wing with a small amount of adjustment.
Yup, came here to say exactly this. Basically a single element wing but only the back part is adjustable.
Obviously the 3d carbon fiber vinyl acts like the dimples on a golf ball!
Haha for sure! Although personally I would have just stuck some play doh on it, far more aerodynamic.
negative, the real answer is the carbon fiber on top of the aluminum reduces the weight of the whole piece.. duh
They Should of just added stickers, golf ball effect and +5 Bhp for every sticker as well
Smart guy though it has to be said, painted car red which gives an extra 50hp.
Now he just needs Alonso to gain 6 tenths.
Yeah
I think in some of those cases, they weren't really intending those parts to be aerodynamically separate or functional. So perhaps they had limited tooling and made a single element with two pieces or added pieces as bracing to help hold the wing together.
Other than that, sometimes you can get "odd" spoilers that don't seem entirely right at first, but take advantage of turbulence pockets to create their downforce at the cost of some drag.
Good video! I learned how to weld by watching videos about what I was doing wrong. I watched hours of video on how to weld but couldn't get it right. When u watched a 5 minute video on bad welding I worked out what I was doing wrong.
Believe it or not, these help lots!
We learn from failure. Better it be from others!
And now we wait for the comments from angry hillclimbers to roll in =P
Let me know if you like this style of video and I can look into doing more!
KYLE.DRIVES really awesome! Love it! :D
Awesome video!
They're just winging it..
very much enjoyed brother! In fact, this is a subject brought up in convo recently so I'll be happy to share with my friends! Basically I was explaining to them that more often than not, you'll spot street tuners of every variety adding on off the shelf aero parts that do not work at all with the rest of the car, because aero is liken to writing a song; there has to be a beginning, middle, and end; change one part of the beginning of the song, and you have to make adjustments to the middle and end to make sure it flows properly, because it's all interconnected :) When I'm at a point in my life to invest the $ I want into car art, I'll be consulting my car friends, aero friends, and conduct scientific testing of modifications; otherwise it's all a farce!
+Artist Weekly thats a great analogy
Videos on what NOT to do are just as important as on what TO do. Loving it!
The reason for the wing to be made from two element but setup like a single is to be able to adjust the rear element rake without having to move the overall angle of attack.
I know I’m late, but I think what Kyle wanted to say was they could’ve just left a bit of gap if they’re making a multi-element wing. It might not be the main purpose for their application but free benefits are welcomed, right?
OK, lets go through some of your points:
1. The ex-f3000 Lola does not in fact have sliding side skirts, it's just the worn side elements from the undertray. Notionally sliding sideskirts are illegal via FIA rules, however aero is relatively 'free' in hillclimbs.
2. Slot gap: the entrance to the slot gap looks to be around 10mm or so, however it needs to be convergent and you did not show the exit. Benzing's book on alloy wings would be your friend here. The bigger issue here is that you don't seem to understand what the cars are: the Torana is a historic sports sedan and the single seater is also a historic class car. They have to run with the original configuration: if you change it as you suggest the car is no longer eligible for the class nor would it be competitive, plus you devalue the car if modified.
3. F3000 front wing was developed by Gary West and I can guarantee he tested it. However you are not considering the event or the needs of the car, it is in part intended to get air over/around the front wheels and maximise the amount of effective wing area whilst still feeding reasonably undisturbed air to the underfloor. Also consider that hillclimb is generally low speed and aero efficiency is less critical than in a circuit car - is it ideal: probably not, but F1 is not a valid comparison.
4. Louvers should be cut out if legal, would not contribute much at all on a hillclimb. The Minetti is a circuit car usually, would work there.
5. Three element wing: yep not great, but then he's made it and is using it.
Neil Rosh a most rational rebuttal.
Thank you.
I was thinking of the front wing after making this response and the bent plate third element of the front wing may in fact function as a wind deflector for the front tyre. I suspect that the Reynold's numbers would be too high for a plate aerofoil to function well, though the actual angle of attack is not relative to the direction of the vehicle, but rather to the flow from the preceding elements. The easiest way to find out if it works would be to discuss it with the driver and find out what sort of data he keeps and if he notices a difference and what sort of difference that is.
If it works, it works and would not have taken much effort to talk to the driver/owner. It is a old, heavy car and far from the current ultra-light CF turbo-hayabusa powered HC cars.
You saved me a lots of effort to write very similar comment, thank you ! Sad thing is that people dont know anything about videos they make. Cheers !
@@urospetrovic5228 - This video is two years old. The guy that made it has now been working in F1 for over a year. Sad people don't know anything about the comments they make. Cheers!
th-cam.com/video/-VqQ0I349ns/w-d-xo.html
With the CFD I've been doing for Formula SAE, I've been able to get really high angles of attack off of a front wing similar that (using a VR-14 main element and S1223 flap with .67m and .21m chord length respectively, I've gotten angle of attack for the flap over 45 degrees while running at 20 m/s and a ground clearance of about .04m). Unfortunately I don't have access to a wind tunnel atm to confirm these results, but I'm confident that my simulation at least accurately predicts flow separation (resolved BL down to Y+ values
Hmm I think the perspective on the camera is making it look at less alpha than it actually is, have a look here plus.google.com/u/1/b/103663408131824188800/photos/photo/103663408131824188800/6342307370224214914?icm=false&authkey=CIOn_-fWm_PlEw it's really upwards of 60 deg flap angle, on a first element with a pretty flat angle. The final edge of the surface was probably closer to 80 degrees, no way is that staying attached with only two elements! The flap was not well profiled either, very sharp edged (a result of a fairly homemade carbon construction).
You are correct that the multi element construction of F1 front wings on the inboard side is critical in Y250 core size and swirl ratio control, this is why you see a lot of teams doing things like re-combining the elements at the inboard tip to get different effects. On the outboard side, in front of the tyre, you may notice that the wing often splits into more elements. This is to deal with the severe adverse pressure gradient experienced. 3 elements would be plenty in the inboard section to maintain attachment (in fact they often could get away with 2 in a low alpha config), but 6 helps a lot infront of the tyre, particularly with ensuring consistency under changing wing heights. So yes, the 6 elements on an F1 wing aren't necessary to get that angle of attack in non tyre affected air, but I was more using it as a demonstration to help the average car enthusiast understand the concept. Someone who understands, such as yourself, clearly wont need assistance ;) Although, I'm curious as to how many mesh elements you have/what your expansion ratio is to get Y+
Ah, yep. It was definitely a perspective issue. No way that flow is staying attached.
Mesh count is about 50 million tets on the full car simulations. Luckily I have access to my universities computer cluster, so solving 50 million elements doesn't take more than two hours or so. The prism layer method (Last Aspect Ratio) I'm using in ANSYS doesn't have ratio control unfortunately (I normally define expansion ratio, but I haven't been able to get over 5 layers using that method without it failing). Unfortunately ANSYS doesn't give much information about how exactly it works (besides that aspect ratio part of it), but I believe it tries to keep the expansion between 1.1 and 1.2 based on my experiences using it.
Thanks for the side note. I've been planning on doing some basic ride height studies for the full car (we have an undertray too, so we have all the ride height sensitivity) in addition to some dive simulations (still waiting on my suspension guy to give me max dive angle under braking for that).
Also, max wing height is a very interesting way to draw the line... lol
I meeeeean, that's pretty much a flat plate! xD
Hey James! Saw your comment after making mine also pertaining to Formula SAE! ALL THE AERO!!!
@@jameswright4732 lol my university license only allows 1 million elements. I wanna know how long that took to solve. One of my hw projects took 32 comp hrs
Exposing the true and making videos on why. I like this. id like to see more of these.
The closed vents on the wheel arches seems very common, I saw several cars with them during a hillclimb event in France…
Did you suggest any improvements of the mods to the drivers?
Having spent about six in hillclimbing as a mechanic, a lot of mod ideas hatch purely from "have a look at ***on such and such's car. Lets copy it!"
The 'copy someone else's' mindset is quite prevalent in lower level motorsport in AU, why I don't know, half the fun for me is working things out . And anyone who gets upset about expert comments on their car needs to put their ego back in it's bag and appreciate the free advice.
It's when the advice comes in a tone that says "I'm better than you" is what makes people angry.
Yup or when the "engineer" spends 45mins explaining to you how shit your engine in your car is... On a high note while the dude was talking shit about my engine his dropped parts of a piston through the oil pan on his chevy and caught on fire....
Exactly. And half these guys just put something on because they thought it looked cool (fair enough) and don’t understand even the most basic aero principles.
Haha, that's my red daily driven MX5. Havent finished the aero yet, but yes I will be getting canards to block the front of the tyres.
Just thought a low to medium speed hillclimb wasn't terribly hard on aero.
Plus most of us don't run national level, so it's not too serious.
Nice vid, keep up the good work :D
Makes sense, I was wondering how many of these cars were works in progress!
Techically speaking, the lower the speed the more downforce you need, otherwise all the aero parts are doing is adding weight, robbing you of acceleration and grip. There is a critical downforce point where they become useful, but below a certain level you might as well unbolt everything if the track is low speed. Take a look at some FSAE cars for example. If you need a hand with aero shoot me an email at kyle@jkfaero.com
Thanks for the compliments! Did this video get shared on one of the hillclimb pages or something? I seem to be getting a lot of messages/comments from people who were competing there recently.
What material did you use to make that splitter?
The first one was made from 2 layers of 3mm alucobond (~3mm layer of polyethelene on the inside of 2 very thin aluminium layers), very easy to cut, and with cross bracing it reasonably sturdy.
The exposed front of the tyre reminded me of the aero on the old super touring cars. I think the theory was the spinning tyre created a high pressure zone that pushed down on the splitter.
Now this I like. Quite a lot to learn by just pointing out what isn't efficient or fulfilling its purpose.
This made me learn how to make my own barge boards and front wings for RC racung
Please do more. You can learn best from mistakes, and if others make mistakes, I don't have to!
I loved he wasn't even talking shit, just educating. I can appreciate that.👏🏽
With regards to the louvres in the wing that were not cut out. The TVR Sagaris had the exact same thing originally the car was designed with cut outs here to cool the brakes etc but they found the tyres would pick up stones and throw them at the windscreen which is not ideal on a race car so that's why they kept the shape of the louvres but without the cut outs maybe that car has a similar story who knows..
Make yourself more known next time! :-) Many of these are old tech cars because they are old. The Torana from memory was been a sports sedan since I started racing (which makes it very old). The BDA-powered car @ 1:37 is also registered as a historic (a.k.a. hysteric) circuit car, so unless he wants to fabricate a new wing just for hillclimb, he's gunna use early 80s tech (such as the ground effect). Also, as you said, this was club level hillclimb. You're not talking about anyone with any great qualifications in fluid dynamics for the aero- they're just a bunch of backyard people having a good time. So be gentle on them. Offer some help next time- you might be surprised. ;-)
That what i thought. Compare old car with latest F1.
If this guy turns up at any other hillclimb in NSW to video & then rubbish amateur racers on the internet I have been told he will (seriously) get thumped. He is now known to us, considered a know-all smart arse, and is absolutely not welcome at any of our events. Even if you are (as he thinks), the world's genius aero engineer - you surely would try gently talking to drivers suggesting ways to improve their cars - rather than using them as a basis for international ridicule. And for those of you who worship him???? Have a look at the video of the ridiculous wing he stuck on his truck. th-cam.com/video/x2K1bPEWs7o/w-d-xo.html
@@BillsBuildandRace settle down karen, its a free country and last time I just checked.... thumping someone at a racetrack will get you a Motorsport Australia (or AASA) life ban
@@adamrbriggsy72 If you knew the guy - like REALLY knew the guy, you might have a different opinion. Remember - this guy is a local to these racers. And for the record I have never punched anyone in my entire life. That just illustrated the level of anger these racers felt over this arrogant video of his. Any if it's a free country, then I too am en-tilted to my opinion, and trust me buddy, if you ever come to an MGCCN hillclimb meeting and ask the guys about this, you will discover I am in large company, and quite restrained in what I said compared to them.
Fun stuff!
I wonder what it would feel like to build a car like these, then come across a video pointing out problems like this.
I liked this style of video. Could you possible do a video on how turbine engines work and how they can be used in cars? Thanks!
Remember that if a guy walking around recording your car, he might not really like your car at all!! haha, instead, he'll make a video out of it haha
2:00 that isn't for downforce, it is for keeping debris away from brakes.
What debris?
Nice vid bro!
I learn so much from you.
Would love to see more videos like these :)
Funny have i learned more about aero than these guys, just by watching a few youtube videos haha. No only entertaining, but the things i learned in the earlier videos make more sense now
Great way to annoy the hill climbers :-) solid info. I'd like more of this stuff, perhaps from timeattack style events as that's what I'm into, but also because timeattack has higher speeds than hill climb and typically budgets are larger on TA so aero is explored at greater lengths.
The f1 style front wing which was "too high an angle of attack"
Maybe not the best possible design and maybe ineffecient.
But maybe he was suffering with understeer? Maybe that was the best solution to an issue he is having without making an entire new front wing.
quite a few hillclimb cars seem to go for a brute "downforce at all cost" approach, so it may be less rlevant to deal with efficiency concerns there
The yellow and red cars front wing would be good for low speed down force, but at high-speed, it'll serve to create extra drag.
I learned a lot in this video, thank you.
for the triple diffuser i think the middle one was flat just to keep laminar flow over the top and bottom but like you said the top diffuser is going to produce a lot of drag with that high angle of an attack.
The funniest thing is when you see home built time attack cars (almost exclusively JDM) with absolutely absurd looking wings and diffusers that don't do anything. You know the ones, they look like pikes peak cars but can barely corner faster than a GT4 car.
So do you think putting a proper air gap between the main front wing and those 60° second elements would help much with the drag or is that steep an angle still just too much? I know in Formula SAE we run ridiculous AoA, but our velocities are a lot lower as well.
last phrase is key , hill climb is in many ways different . a lower speeds b rough upsetting course and other considerations !
Great rundown, Kyle. You have to wonder what they might have done with access to something as simple as a smoke generator or tufts of wool…
i wanted to propose you this type of video about a week ago, but you did it anyway. Thanks!
2:37: Fun fact. This car still has it's diffuser to nowhere and "triple element" front wing as of June 2024.
Understandable, have good day you sir!
I love looking at the top standings after a race and analyzing the cars. but these guys... made me lmao haha
Really like this one, would love to see more! Also maybe some videos on the more interesting things you saw that looked like they might actually work, but this one was great :D
Hi, love your observations on aero implementations in motorsport, I’ve been trying to add aero into my racing kart to see how it performs. It’s really interesting and i’m really enjoying it. Been looking at my road car too.
Just wondering what hill climb you went to? With the mix of cars I wasn’t sure if you’re in the UK or not?
Ringwood Park Motor Complex, Balickera, NSW, Australia
@@aussieseanc oh. No way!!! Damn, can’t get you to cast your eye over my go kart then 😂
This is great! It's why I love aerodynamics, because people think it's intuitive and it's not. Most people think they can just look at a design and figure it out. Wrong!
It is intuitive IMO. :)
I have a 2 element rear wing, the upper element is of such construction though that as soon as I go over say 70-80 miles an hour it forms into a single element wing due to the air pressure on it, at least the middle part. No Idea what the use is, we even filed out the front slots of it so we can give it a less agressive angle and it still does this. Then again, it produces enough downforce to actually pusht the car down through the rear springs starting 105 mph.
That red MX5 you show a few times in the video, that thing is a real weapon.
Found your channel a few days ago. 👌🏽
Did you talk to the owners and tell them what you thought was wrong?
those 2 "multi element" wings.. they are hinged for ajustment, hence the first one has 2 holes, and the 2nd one has slots. I doubt its actually meant as multi element. I guess its some oldschool retro thing?
Mosibfu nope still used
I love it!!!! Keep doing them!!
From the first SCCA regional race meeting I ever saw I realized some of the weekend racers really didn't know what they were doing. In those days it seemed to me souring up production car engines way past their limits. By I also got to meet Harvey Templeton, ME who invented the only zero roll suspension Formula V. Today there are myriad ways to screw up a race car.
3:08 most likely preformed body panels for kit cars. Optional to use these vents or not. Some cars end up with stones being thrown out of them and they’re not actually needed for any type of cooling or aero. Like the TVR sagaris. They actually filled them in for this reason.
Forgive my ignorance about this kind of cars. Is it possible that the second element on the wing is for adjusting the chamber only ?
The "not cut out" louvres on the black car are running in an enclosed wheel class where the rules mandate that the wheels are not exposed so not allowed to open the slots. The "Louvres" help by disturbing the air flow and reducing the lift created by the enclosed bodywork.
For 5, are you using aoa relative to the direction of travel or to the flow?
I like this style of video it takes it off the computer and in to reality
If you want to see an absolutely awesome Hillclimb location, search for Guernsey Hillclimb in the channel islands, It's been going for years now and the hill is tight, twisty, s-bend and has a very quick final stretch.
They will break the speed limit!! 35mph limit on Guernsey yet there is no end of exotics and big superbikes as well.
In the diesel Seat renter I once got up to 40mph!!
Thanks for this. Theres a lot of videos on proper set ups but it's interesting to have one on how NOT to do things
Brilliant video
The key thing here is this is a hobby style race. Most of these cars are built by club drivers not pro racing teams. The goal for Alot of them is to look the part and survive the course. They are not using test facilities or wind tunnels, the cars were probably drafted at a local bar after an eagles game.
Like this style of videos, it would be interesting if you made a quick optimization proposal on those.
is it possible with a digital scale and a wind pipe and measure how much downforce on the scale, adjusting angles and different wing setups?
I think you need to a bit more open minded when you look at what people are trying with their cars.
The LJ Torana (the blue car) isn't trying to be a multi-element wing, its simply a wing with an adjustable flap!!! (the extra bolt holes at the rear) now if you look at an aircraft wing and then look at the that wing, they are the same design... There is also the chord angle of the air flow over the top of the wing which rides along a boundary layer, making that gap obsolete because nothing is going to flow into it. It's the same idea behind the front wing on the formula car, with its extreme angle of attack.
Formula one cars have multiple difussers because they want minimum drag while at high speeds but those wings won't work at low speeds and a high drag wing wont be efficient at high speeds (which is why they have all different angles).
Have a look at sprintcar wings, they have quite large flaps (or bent aluminum as u called them @ 3:44) but produce incredible amounts of downforce at very low speeds.
You also said you don't know what they are trying to achieve with the middle section. Straightening out the airflow seems pretty obvious. Maybe even trying to achieve lamina flow?
Again, its hillclimb... whats their top speed? 300km/h? or 160?
Do you use a wing for a high speed or low speed?
Why wouldn't you want an adjustable dual element wing? There's a reason why an aircraft uses flaps and not a spoiler to achieve this, and that is because it is not being actuated continuously. They are used to steer, not to sustain flight. In this situation, a dual element wing would provide a cleaner exit of air and increase the volume of air under the top wing, making significantly more downforce, especially with such a low aspect ratio. That wing is just a drag monger. It has the drag of a low aspect ratio with the downforce of a high aspect ratio. As for the formula car, those front flaps do not connect the wake over the front wheels. They don't behave like a gurney either. They stall underneath and make no attempt to connect flow over the top. The drag it makes probably negates any incremental down force gains by the lift it creates. F1 cars do not have multiple diffusers and they are not exempt from ordinary drag/downforce balancing strategies. It is impossible to cheat the effects of drag without active aerodynamics. As for the middle "element" of that front wing: it's doing the exact opposite of what you've suggested. The reason for multi element wings is to increase low pressure under the the wing while avoiding air separation. The first element needs to cleanly facilitate air to the second, and so on. Such a configuration is very sophisticated for it to be effective. This instead was clearly done by hobbyists without serious intentions of increasing grip. Also, I believe the guy who's talking in the video is a doctor of aerospace engineering or very close in status.
@@DB-fn3fz couldn't be bothered to read your whole comment but it is probably to keep it period correct so it can run in the class it wants to
@@ollierichards6508 Thanks, Sherlock.
love this very unique video!
☺
0:52 I drove a Van Diemen '78 Formula Ford at Le Circuit at Mont Tremblant, Quebec back in 1979.
Yo! Do you know the lancia delta hf rally car? Always had that very steep spoiler. I was wondering how that works. Wouldnt it just work like an airbrake (pretty sure it worked tho since it was such a big official team)
Definitely do more on location Motorsport videos. Awesome ha!
Level-unlocked!! 🇦🇺🤜🏼🤛🏼😎🤓🍀
Maybe you should take your car to a hill climb and demo your aero design. You could clean up on the trophies.
This is really hilarious.
I am not a race mechanic, just a guy with a history in flying RC gliders, but none of what Is shown here seems to be thought through at all.
It might be OK for a hillclimb to simply create as much downforce as you can, as topspeed is secondary, but it is all more "looks somehow like the pro stuff, or?" than having any feeling for aerodynamics there.
Hey!! Ive been there haha !! Though wasnt as exciting only an MG car club day when i went
The third middle foil element splits and "excellerates" (air is actually not actively acting upon the car, the car is acting upon the air) the passing air through tge coanda effect is sucked through at a higher rate per volume, the crazy tabs are a corrective measure for a design oversight
Nicely explained and constructive feedback on the mods
lots more like this please.
Angle of attack and angle of incidence are not the same! Particularly in a hill climb setting, and within that context, especially when cresting hills, when getting downforce on the front is most critical.
Cover all your motorsports events!!! This is epic content
very very interesting cant wait to see your fi design front and rear wings and how many cars are running them waiting
Hey Kyle, I'm wondering if you have ever done something to your 86 aerodynamicwise? At least I didn't see any mods in your previous videos which featured your 86.
Are you sure the double element wings weren't just for adjusting the angle and not for a double wing?
The first Wings are not actually designed to be a multi element wing...the part in the back of the wing is just an extra part so you can change the angle of attack fairly easily
Before I dedicate to any areo, I'll run it by you first lol
Really Nice video!
Your #4 the ridges ad stiffness to the fender.
if you were building a lotus exige race car, what Aero modifications and additions would you make?
I like the Torana and Geminis. was not expecting to see them
Do more like this!
The uncut louvers on the 10-2 o'clock zone of the fenders creates a wash zone or dead air that prevents or disrupts the Coanda effect, a negative pressure zone sbove the rounded fender surface that causes aerodynamic lift "if" the ambient air flows along the body contour. Passively deflecting it by creating a buffer zone minimizes the need for down force by preventing coanda lift, which is the only reason downforce is necessary, to counter lift, any opposition to force is friction, and thats a drag, so I would venture to say they are treating the cause by semi initial design rather than correcting the symptom, reducing lift, downforce friction, aerodynamic drag and inproving efficiency. Wheels are round, thats why fenders have aerodynamic limitations. How well the air rumble strips work, I do not know that extent, but I do know that it was the idea.
good vid mate
That huge attack angle on the front wing has noting to do with the wheel? They look like know what they're doing with the aero!/hahaAnd this kind of video is awesome!
Well, the car was a Dallara ex F3000 car, so the aero would have been decently sorted for that, but those secondary flaps appear to have been just added by the owner after he bought the car, as they look very hand made compared to the rest of the car... But yes the rest of the car had its aero down!
Thanks for the compliments!
Quite a lot of back yard aero design is for phycological advantage. If you really want to get more down force at low speeds just make the aero kit from reo concrete, couple of hundred kgs each end, even when it car's stationary....
I’d like to see you break down dirt track late model design, it’s got lots of room for improvement the sport needs it
Wow man, you picked up some very "strange" wings........lol. Quite a few improvements to be made there.
I like this a lot- do more!! However, it would be really nice to see some aero of super cars as I thought your aerodynamics of hypercars series was too short! Centenario, regera, veneno, or how the huayra BC have improved from the not so good standard huayra?? THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!
How many times do i need to watch this before it stops being recommended
Pays to remember a lot of the guys at hillclimbs have come up with designs from trial and error. It may not look pretty but on many of them, times improved with their changes. You can bet more than a few of them tried things you suggest but either found them impractical to build on a budget so they built what they could that worked, or, they found them theoretically correct but practically useless on their local tracks or in their form or class of racing. I am curious though, have you built a hillclimb car and successfully raced it?
Good ol' saying ...
All the gears
But no idea
😂
Do you need efficient downforce on a hill climb?
Personally, I like the porcupine concept where control surfaces improve downforce at will through extension, then retract to permit swift acceleration.
So even when they're done wrong they do sort of work? (sometimes)
Fender arch not necessarily needs to cut out, they are not intended to be vented but rather to create a tiny layer of turbulence effect with lower air pressure to pull more air down (close) to the body panel. Pretty much the same concept as a golf ball's uneven surface.
All 5 point you mentioned are very useful in their way as other comments explained.
Good video
Well, it's a pretty interesting channel. I really like the analysis of engineering applied to cars, it's very exciting for me.
Just a suggestion: Could you add subtitles to the videos? I think it would be very helpful for those who do not speak English as our native language. Thanks.
Great vid.
I've always wondered... Why are hillclimbs more popular than hill descents? I think they're both as dangerous from a terrain point-of-view... perhaps hill descent is more dangerous from a braking point-of-view?
My personal experience has taught me to fear long uphill sweepers because of a spin-out accident/crash I had been in that resulted from lift-off oversteer while going uphill. After the accident, I researched and found out that lift-off oversteer happens more easily going uphill.
I know nothing about aerodynamics but this is still very intresting