The Deprogram Episode 28 - Orientalism, Cultural Imperialism and Nic Cage
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Cultures are like dicks, everyone has them but not everyone knows how to use them. Join us for a deep dive into Orientalism, a far broader and more complex concept than what you might've thought it was, and cultural imperialism, the clash of Capital, culture, and internationalism. Oh, and Nic Cage because why not?
The next episode, Episode 29: [REDACTED] your landlord is available NOW 1 full week early on Patreon: / thedeprogram
Bonus Episode 5: The Deprogram Would Like To Add You on Linkedin is also available exclusively on Patreon.
Support the show, get bonus episodes, early releases, discord access and a lot more by donating: / thedeprogram - บันเทิง
can't wait for the episode applying dialectical materialism to australia-denialism
Denying Australia is praxis
@@ericktellez7632 and denying Belgium is revolutionary
@@itsukizy it can't be THAT revolutionary, the rest of Europe has been doing it for centuries lol
Hakim saying "deez nuts" in the beggining is golden
Then the finale with the _"TESTICLEEEEEEE"_ is golden.
35:09 my grandfather was in the Air Force in the 50s. He is also a black man. hamdullah he's still kicking. He told me that literally every Asian country he went to was a better place to be a black man than America
Hakim's recommended books on orientalism:
1) "Orientalism" by Edward W. Said (must have)
2) "The Wretched of the Earth" by Frantz Fanon (must have No.2)
3) "Reel Bad Arabs" by Jack Shaheen (there is also a related documentary)
4) "Desiring Arabs" by Joseph Massad
Thanks a lot for making this list! Very convinient. Deserves to be a pinned comment))
@@hug_bug I really appreciate your comment! Good to know that my list can be useful for someone other than myself ))
I saw "Reel Bad Arabs" as "Real Bad Abs".
Thank you, thank you thank you!
Wish we had this comment on every episode pinned or somewhere in the description box.
Got my wife to listen to a few episodes 🥳 She likes what she hears and enjoys the different perspectives. She also said JT’s voice is so calming, which helps to talk about political and controversial issues.
You know, gender studies usually gets a bad rap, but for example I took a course in gender studies where both Said's Orientalism and Massad's Desiring Arabs were required reads. We had a brilliant lecturer who understood the issue of imperialism in tangent of emancipatory struggles
We need another podcast or a segment of the podcast which is entirely Hakim being mystified by the surrealism of American culture.
Anecdotally, I'd speculate that "Canada" imported as many Nazis in absolute numbers as the US, obviously in cahoots with them and the MI6. All the "ethnic" friends of my Italo-"Canadian" uncles were/are Poles, Germans, Ukrainians and an Estonian. This was in Montreal, circa 1970s/80s.
Considering Canada has entire monuments to Ukrainian Nazis, that is not speculation.
Oh, there was also the anecdote I heard from the rabidly commie-hating son of Czech émigrés about a certain door in the secure area of Dorval Airport, on the other side of which was a Canada Customs guard who'd tell anyone going through it "Welcome to Canada" (these Fifth Columnists were instructed beforehand where to go). Gotta wonder how many defectors and infiltrators passed through that place over the course of the eighties...
EDIT: This Czechanadian guy's parents were tasked with trekking from Ottawa to Montreal to meet these incoming bums, their fellow traitors, to help them "integrate" into squatter society.
@@therat1117 Absolutely, yes. There are the two well-known ones from the Pugliese exposés (14th Waffen-SS "Galizien" monument @ St. Volodymyr's Cemetery in Oakville, and the Roman Shukhevich monument @ Ukrainian Cultural Centre in Edmonton), but I'd bet there are a few more private/hidden ones in conjunction with the Canadian state, commemorating this or that Fifth Column op.
Similarly, other Nazi-adjacent traitors from SU/WP are presumably also honoured thusly here and there, as they are in other NATO member states.
Comes for the politics stays for the balls talk
It slaps!
TESTICLLLLLLEEEE
And butthole melanination!
1:11:36 Please, if some of you guys read this, tell Yugopnik there's a GREAT Dominican movie with this exact same plot. It's called _"La Gunguna",_ and the gun was a gift from Spanish dictator Francisco Franco to Dominican dictator Rafael L. Trujillo, but then ended lost until present year, when it ends on the Dominican-Haitian border being sold to a corrupt military officer by a badass lady smuggler. But the gun has a kind of "hex" where every owner gets brutally killed when the gun gets wet by water.
Wow, that sounds incredibly cool.
Maybe the reasons Aliens always attack the United States in movies is not because of Amerocentrism, but because the aliens all recognize the US as the evil empire and try to take it down.
Thank goodness for Notifications! I'm so ready. Thanks for putting these on TH-cam. Hopefully in the future we can get some more guests on the podcast from the Black Diaspora or East and South Asia. Comrades are from EVERYWHERE, but larger channels and convos seem to have guests from those areas sparingly. Either way thanks again.
This is a greater and more educational trio than the holy trinity
49:00 I was part of a co-operative housing + kitchen thing in rural Ohio to save money and we got all our produce in cardboard boxes directly from local farm. In the cities I've only gotten plastic bags of potatoes. In the suburbs I've seen both. (I love potato discourse)
I fucking choked on my drink from that baby joke goddamnit Yugopnik. What a savage beast
12:19 - This is a perfect description of Slovenian national psyche. Essentially, "Well, we might not be Germany or Austria, but at least we're not [insert any other ex-Yu republic]." It's a vomit-inducing mentality.
"Canadians": _"At least we're not 'merikkka!"_
1990s Iraq, Balkans and Somalia NATO victims:
This is interesting, because in my region of the third world we have a more defeatist mentality as in we don’t really have a “at least we are not xyz” mentality but rather a humorist approach like “of course this happened our country is sh*t lol” or “imagine being born in a first world country and missing this crazy thing that just happened”
@@ericktellez7632 Here in Dominican Republic we have "at least we're not Haiti".
@@fun_ghoul Nah, Germany has the best excuse: at least this time we are not invading on our behalf, we are just following American led military intervention.
@@minhducnguyen9276 Yeah...exactly.
DeEz NuTs! - first thing I hear
Me: yup this will be fun
And then the last thing you hear is "TESTICLLLLLLE!"
Perfect bookends. XD
So, my power just got back on after a lengthy tornado-induced outage. I spent six hours yesterday waving a sign at traffic promoting this podcast because I had nothing better to do, and I will do it again.
12:19 In various countries of Latin America, we have specific words from the colonial times to despict that kind of "internal self-hatred orientalism". In México, for example, it's called _"malinchismo"_ (due to an indigenous Náhuatl woman, Malintzin, who betrayed the Aztecs and helped Hernán Cortés becoming his wife and serving as translator for the conquerors). In Dominican Republic, we have the phrase _"Guacanagarix syndrome"_ (due to one of the five Taino chieftains, Guacanagarix, who also helped Columbus and his troops against the other indigenous tribes). Both terms are amazingly similar in origin and colloquial use, I don't know if any other Latin American country has something similar.
Which are unfair to the actual people from which those terms originated from, Malintzin was basically a slave who was gifted to Hernan and her people were being used as an easy sacrificial group for the Aztecs, they wouldn’t completely subjugate them but rather whenever they needed sacrifices they would raid Malintzin’s village and grab a few people, so it wasn’t a surprise as to why they would help the Spaniards against the Aztecs.
@@ericktellez7632 Yeah, the same could be said of Guacanagarix. He was actually trying to be a humble and nice host to the Spaniard newcommers, meanwhile telling them to help him and his tribe against Caribbeans (which were more hostile and belligerant). Spanish conquerors just abused his hospitality and naivety.
Interesting! We have something sort of similar in Chinese called 崇洋媚外 (chong yang mei wai) but I feel the underlying meaning may be a little bit diff from the terms you mentioned. It essentially means “worshipping all things western/overseas and debase yourself to the foreigner”. It’s used to describe people who lack confidence in their own culture and heritage. 😅
@@lordjustice6994 It's basically the same thing as how _"malinchismo"_ and _"Guacanagarix complex"_ is used here. Quite interesting. Do you know the etymological origin of _"chong yang mei wai"?_
I was packing a bowl of some crappy corporate cannabis in "Canada" when the good doctor spoke of gentrified weed. ✔
CIA agent is what a Gestapoman dreamed of being/doing.
EDIT: The former put us to sleep with pedestrian uniforms.
I'm glad to hear that their official position is "Nic Cage good"
Here is an issue I feel like should have been mentioned.
In many countries that do not belong in the cultural hegemony local reactionary forces always use the excuse of "cultural imperialism" to crack down on the rights of gay people, women, trans people and much much more. This is an extremely common phenomenon that is impossible to ignore. I do not like how Hakim dismisses this fact by associating calls for gay rights in the Middle East with white s3xpats coming to have morally questionable relations with local young men. People are suffering guys and when that suffering is brought forward the conservative reactionary forces constantly scream "Cultural Imperialism" at us like the crybullies they are. I have experienced that in my own country very vividly, society will go as far as to make a soft denunciation of your own national identity if you happen to be LGBT. This is not the white man's doing folks. We need to question this if we are claiming to be speaking about issues like that from a non-eurocentric point of view.
saying its “not the white man’s doing” really doesn’t make sense when you realise it was colonial rule which introduced the criminalisation of homosexual acts in many global south countries.
My my mother actually teaches some Ed Said in African literature classes at the University of the Witwatersrand here in South Africa
Eyyyy thanks for shouting out my hometown, Des Moines, Iowa, (don’t worry, everyone gets the name pronunciation wrong, usually in some permutation of what you did 😂, and yes, the anglophonebastdarization of the French pronunciation is indeed the “correct American way” that we use in the US of A) from a Japanese Korean American leftist❤️🔥🇯🇵🇰🇷🇺🇸 our capital building is Byzantine-like? I never saw it that way but I greatly appreciate and am humbled by the comparison. Although I do agree that an Iraqi flag would be much less tackey looking than the USA one XD inshallah❤️🔥🙏🇯🇵🇰🇷🇺🇸🇮🇶
Muslims taught Billy to season his food and how to take a bath. And Billy's father will never forgive them for that.
one very good example of cultural imperialism is Brazil, we have lots and lots of McDonalds and Burger Kings (except in tiny towns), but our local burgers are often times tastier and cheaper, but people keep buying f*cking McDonalds and Burger Kings (and they don't even taste that good tbh)
lmao, right after I posted this Yugopnik said pretty much the same thing at 1:03:55
Great episode as always. As an Italian anarco-communist it would be really interesting to hear you guys talk about Italy
1:11:27 Nas basically came up with this idea for a song. Instead of a bullet he's a gun though. It's pretty creative.
Hakim being fascinated by Des Moines is very interesting to hear as someone who lives in Iowa and has been there a few times.
Lol I was sitting in a line at Chic-fil-a when Hakim said "Chic-fil-a be busin"
Orientalism is unfortunately the norm. Fortunately, orientalism is one of the few leftist topics my parents actually taught me about. For the most part, they tried to instill liberal values in me (and greatly failed). However, they went hard in the paint with making sure I never thought of any group of people as mystical or threatening. The downside of demystifying is that traveling seems much less fun, as I can’t help but see every place I’ve been as kind of boring and the same. The positive of demystifying is that I’m much more able to interact with people of different cultures than most people in my neighborhood. I feel that to an extent it helped me with being able to make friends with folks of various races just here in America. Knowing that everyone is just a person trying to fumble their way through the world makes it fairly easy to interact with people, no matter the country of ethnic group.
Hakim discovering Iowa gives me life. 😂
yall should do a segment to talk about leftist movies. like Reds, 1900 Novecento, and Baader meinhof complex
Yugopnik u r absolutely the fucking funniest xD plz keep on making jokes!!!
51:09 wow, JT explaining it as “going for a Culture win in Civ” made me immediately get it LOL
I can't believe this was recorded in 2022
38:46 I was gonna correct you(go) by saying "cultural genocide", but then I had to correct myself, because the killing of a people's culture is itself one of the definitions of genocide, per Lemkin.
So yeah, just "genocide".
Goddamn i got a food delivery ad right when yugopnik started talking about food delivery vs ...
In a subversion of the orientalist stereotype of the pious and sexually repressed arab, Hakim is the horniest member of the podcast. He reminds me of the miller from the Canterbury Tales.
JT's aussie fake accent was actually good
At least where I'm from in the US, potatoes often get delivered into the store in large plastic or mesh bags. Sometimes we'd get boxes but that's less common
Y'all should check out Midwestern marx
47:40 I didn't realize Hakim was so based on the BQ (Belgian Question)
it feels really refreshing to break the illusion of american cultural imperialism and see it for what it is, the past 30 years have been a dystopian nightmare and will certainly be seen as such in the distant future
"Deez nuts" is a classic rebuke, Yugopnik, and the only reason you reject it is because you have no response! Aha! Deez nuts!
Great
4:44
The interesting thing about what they portray on tv is that usually it's animation subverting the live action shows. "The Simpsons" was one of the first shows to subvert tv shows like modern family, showing a more broken form though it's still idealized. One working parent and they are mostly getting by. One of the best is Bob's burgers which the family struggles daily doing, addresses all sorts of issues and is such a joy because it's like... grounded adventures? Some scenarios are more outlandish than others but their adventures are more or less conceivably possible. It's just really hard to get past the fact that the characters are all drawn without chins... as an artist it took me a long time to accept the show.
Btw I think "Us tv shows appearing in my country is imperialism!" is pretty downright silly and will get people not to take you seriously. I do think that some countries actually suppress their own local productions in favor of US productions because the local productions can produce culture that is threatening to their power. I can't remember if it was in Ghana or Nigeria but the creator of one of Africa's most successful sitcoms (where a guy moves to the big city full of get rich quick schemes), one that lampooned the whole society and pointed out it's corrupt oppression, the creator of that show got charged with inciting a rebellion and executed.
Okay, I don't seem to see an explanation for the soap-box thing, and I know what it is, so let me help.
Short version? In the early 1900s, with all the child labor policies not yet existing, and tons of impoverished or orphan kids needing to stay alive, they were an easy pool of cheap, unskilled labor for cheap or small-budgetted businesses to use. The soapbox story comes from the stereotype of NYC/Boston/Chicago newspaper companies hiring small children to sell papers. But given that they're pretty short and their voices aren't traditionally the most powerful, they needed to raise themselves up to be seen or heard by masses walking by. So they'd take empty boxes and they'd turn them over and stand on top of them. Because they were light, and the boxes were sturdier back then (often made of wood) they'd stand on top of them and call out, "Extra! Extra! Read all about it!" and that's how they'd make their money. Because it was so ubiquitous, it became well known, and talked about for years, and eventually the image of "The Newsie" which is what the children were called, standing on their soapboxes and street corners became more well known.
Additionally, in ye olden days, when boxes were made out of wood instead of cardboard, turning over a simple box and standing up on them became a real easy way to get yourself seen above the crowd, something that the children started, and it became easy for the crowd to see you and hear you then, so standing on a box, whether a soapbox or no (that just became a catch-all term) would be an easy way for you to be heard and seen, and the association stuck. Especially in the era of the 40s-70s with all the protests and rallies back in the day. That era is known for its social change and with how many people needed to talk? This became pretty common, because not everyone can afford a podium and microphone, in fact, most people that had something to say, couldn't.
D's Noughts
Great!👍
c word in your name 😱😱😱😱
wonderful comrades!
And in Des Moines, Washington, they pronounce it even differently 🙃 "dez-moinz"
28:00 "The sharp end of the stick"
Where is the fan art? For research purposes
Where can I get a deprogram bumper sticker for my shitty car.
Southern Solidarity!
In Jamaica we didn't legalize we still haven't we only decriminalized it a year after Canada I think. Why was illegal because first world countries made it illegal and we followed
1:02:30 yeah but the McAllisters in Home Alone seemed obviously wealthy even to Americans. They had the money to do this big trip to France with the whole family and their house was on a monied enough street that thieves were targeting their neighborhood for valuables. Its not the same at all as Friends or Moderrn Family where it makes no sense their house / apartment is that big.
24:40 "...is that Persian women are just hot bro. Like, it's been a meme since the 1100s"
I grew up in the back drore.
"Cultural Westernism"
im curious how in the u.s, "the orient" strayed from edward saids original definition to strictly refer to east and southeast asia. for example, "asian" colloquially refers to east asian looking people, and the old term here for asian is oriental. my (white) grandma even once asked me if she should call me oriental or asian, so i guess its not that long ago. apparently in the u.k, asian refers to south asians and oriental refers to east/southeast asian. yet, ive never heard, except from edward saids book, oriental referring to "the middle east". i do know that in i think somewhere during the 1800s in the u.s, during the time of racial eugenics, many people were trying to claim their identity as "white" in order to claim u.s citizenship, and that included many arab people. right now, mena, or "middle eastern and north african" people have to claim white on the census. maybe it has something to do with the disconnection and disassociation from imperialist historical context, or the u.s's fked up racist history, but it still makes no sense to me. and many black activists also tend to distance themselves from the theory definition in that the u.s historical conflicts between asians and black people is extremely polarized, even if it might refer to the orientalism of african peoples and cultures. its so stupid how americans divide and conquer at their own whim with so little investment in how those divisions are going to affect people. theres no basis in reality, no basis in truth, its all just made up bs thats confusing as hell and contains zero logic whatsoever.
1:00:00 The Gang Discovers American Police and CIA in Entertainment Media
In Germany potatoes also come in plastic bags
Prisoners of Ghostland rules and Sion Sono rules. Filtered
@YUGOPNIK I would support a movie like that, where the KGB guy is the good guy. And the American is a bad guy. I would definitely watch the shit out of it.💯
OMG YES FRIENDS IS FUCKING GARBAGE AND SO IS THE BIG BANG THEORY IM SO GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP
the office and parks and rec are good american sitcoms tho
i'm not too good for tiktok apple just limits the space on my phone and that shit is like a gb of space
What the Fecund? Has there always been an "Avatar the Last Airbender" poster in this thing? I love this podcast x10 times more now. Who's the Avatar fan in the group? which one of these commie's is the Avatar poster for, I need to know. I will tankie for them, I will go rob banks Stalin style in the country of whoever the Avatar fan in this group. Iroh and Marx, Aang and Stalin, hand in hand, teaching the younguns how to over thrown colonial imperialism!
TH-cam is the only mainstream social media platform I use, haven't used Facebook in over 10 years. Never used the Twit-X or the Instagrams or the Tik-toks. I can't believe people still use that garbage .... and I'm a techie!
Yugopnik defending Tiktok is all I need.
Is fantastic if you are in marketing just like instagram and facebook
Uff. I was unsubscribed from you guys without my consent.
"it's an elective lobotomy"
interaction with the video yeah yeah woooooooooo
47:40 I am completely offended
I've eaten at the KFC at Checkpoint Charlie. It was bad.
Does anyone know what song they’re talking about in 39:07? Really want to give it a listen but having a hard time finding it
It's Puff Daddy by Bambu, here's a link:
th-cam.com/video/1bkx6PijLug/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Bambu-Topic
EXRCISING A DEMON is the track I believe, you can also take the album name attached to the track and look that shit up for more.
well yugopnik, india banned tik tok so i can't be a bad guy when the government is making me the bad guy
Funny enough, I have been to that KFC at checkpoint charlie
Two white guys and a red guy talking about racism.
If i was red, i would wear towel.
I don't think I'm to good for tiktok I KNOW I'm to good for it
Operation what? 26:37
Operation Paperclip, where the U.S. took in a bunch of Nazi scientists and engineers.
@@theguywhoasked2016 thanks. Now you The Guy Who Answered
Paperclip
I am indeed too good for TikTok
Um kulthum!
You despise France? you sound as if you were spanish XD
19:45 was as bad for Western European supremacism as 1945 ngl. 💀💀💀
I'm too old for TikTok.
No you are not, it’s instagram for video
@@ericktellez7632 I know what it is. FWIW, Instagram is trash and I never use it.
@@ericktellez7632 I appreciate you boosting me up tho, comrade. Solidarity from my squat on Omamíwininí territory.
Testicllllllle!
Every episode of this shitshow has me more convinced yugopnik never paid attention in health education. Seriously man you need to read some human biology so you don't have to pester Hakim with your ridiculous questions, I'm sure he gets enough of them at work. Said with love
Sorry to be that guy, but in my biology class they never told me how melanine affected specifically the anus' coloration.
@@Ajente02 Of course not. But having a basic understanding of how melanine works might lead you to the right answer or at least something close.
Tiktok is the shit
TikTok is shit*
@@Ajente02 💩
@@Ajente02 You beat me to the obligatory dad joke.
How long before JT is tired of the anti American white guy stuff 🤣
Meh. He's the kid that can be replaced. 😎
?what
@@fun_ghoul damn what JT do to you lol.
@@biodiversityfanatic2454 The above is surely in the realm of jest, but to be serious for a sec, JT's conception of "America" sickens and confuses me...it's Maupinesque. This is not reality, and comrades need to buckle up their sphincters for the inevitable Balkanization of the United Snakes. There was never a common identity, and if the swine couldn't build fake nationhood over half a millennium with literally all the money in the world, why would we seek to replicate what is doomed to failure?
Moreover, if a tenet of ML(*)ism is national liberation and self-determination, then why the fuck do some comrades (NB: I don't mean JT, Yugo or Dr. Doctor) act like those things are "nice-to-haves" for a revolution in this hemisphere instead of integral parts? How the fuck are we gonna strongly assert that Dominicans are a nation, but Puerto Ricans are not? Or the fucking Euro-colonizer Québécois are, but the Anishinaabe, Cree, Inuit, Mohawk, Mik'mak and others ON WHOSE LAND "QUÉBEC" EXISTS are not? 🤔
It's a major cognitive dissonance that overarches all comradely dialogue in the Western Hemisphere, much to our detriment IMO. If we can't draw a line from here to a time and place where ALL nations are free and dignified, our message will fall on deaf ears, and rightly so.
Sorry to fuck up the jokey vibe, comrades. Cheers from the land of The Great Peace Pipe: Kichisipi, unceded Omamíwininí territory (a.k.a. Ottawa). ✊
the soap box idiom exists bible thumpers used to stand on them and do religious rants