"Can't eat carbs, can't eat fats, can't eat proteins. Everyone photosynthesize and hope for the best" 🤣🤣🤣 I feel this quote with all the conflicting information out there.
"The reason pple have difficulty identifying real experts is because REAL experts don't sound super sure of themselves". Oh my gosh, does this ever ring true. Not claiming to be an expert myself, but as a psych graduate, I cannot tell you the amount of times that I can feel myself losing credibility with people I can't give a direct answer to to some pop psychology thing that they are asking for a direct answer on. They are just not aware of the nuances and the 'maybes' or 'sometimes' involved in the thinking process around it.
Absolutely agreed. Also loved that quote. Every time I tell people “it depends, it may work, maybe can do X Y or Z”, I feel like the conversation goes the other way because my opinion gets desensitized since I used “maybe” and “it depends”. I have learned that most experts who are actually smart are more then willing to accept other ideologies if it makes sense and are always questioning themselves, even if they know the answer.
also expert says gray statement. people like glister and colourful. they dont click murky nuanced stuff. hard to comprehend and needs attention and intellect
Psychologist here who works with people suffering from T2 diabetes, eating disorders, metabolic disorders, etc. and find this life-changing work incredibly rewarding. Much respect to both of these men! PS - we are built for survival, not enjoyment.
But we learned how to survive and that survival will draw us to things that we actually enjoy like sugary things and craving for salt. I think. Don’t really know but kinda makes sense at least to. But I totally agree with how the body itself works. =^_^=
I agree with you but believe we ‘enjoy’ sugary, salty, & fatty foods because eating these rarely found in nature foods likely increased our ancestors’ likelihood of survival. We’re still built to enjoy them but they are no longer ‘rare finds’ in nature but ubiquitous. Adding in tolerance (or habituation) we naturally develop in response to frequent exposure (similar to the caffeine example they spoke about), we need increasing amounts of these to feel or notice the ‘up’ feelings. BTW - love your signature 😻
In your opinion what is the main cause of the low willpower a lot of people exhibit when it comes to their bodies? It may sound reductionist but when someone continues to choose to do something that they know is having a negative outcome because changing is "too hard", I start to wonder how so many get into and stuck in that mindset.
@@elusivecamel I don't believe people are actually choosing to do something they know is having a negative outcome. No one I have worked with wanted to be physically or emotionally where they were (hence, seeing me). Even when truly motivated to have change in their life, effecting the changes necessary for that to happen is incredibly difficult. Or, as the saying goes, it is simple but not easy. We are 'creatures of habit'. In reality, we are built to not change. Most of us walk the same way we've walked since we learned how to do so. This is a simple trial I have done with many people: for the next week, change which foot you use first whenever you get up and begin to move. At first, you'll do it because it is fresh in your mind, seems easy enough, and it also feels quite odd to do so. Once the novelty has worn off (i.e. 10 minutes later) and you are back focused on the usual details of your life, you likely won't even think of changing your 'footedness' again until I ask a week or so later when we meet again (very, very likely after observing you using your original foot first as you arrive to meet). Almost all of the time, we are operating on a default mode. Change requires continued awareness (or mindfulness), intention, and action. Change is, indeed, hard. But so is a life of suffering...
Humans evolved in a relative food scarcity environment. Having the opportunity to consume an energy dense food was great. That energy could be stored for later use when we don't have any food. In the modern world, those periods of low consumption don't happen as much. We still have that drive to consume energy rich foods, because our brains evolved thinking those things are good and healthy, and increased our survivability. There were no fat cavemen. Not because they had the smarts not to eat the sugary fruits or the fat of the pig they killed. They did eat those things when they had them. But they didn't have access to them all the time. In today's world we have constant access to very energy dense foods, and our brains still crave those foods because they represent an opportunity to stockpile energy for a period of future scarcity. Those periods of scarcity never come though, so our bodies keep stockpiling. It actually takes a degree of willpower to not become obese in today's world that those in the ancient world didn't need, because they didn't have the opportunity to become obese. In short, our brains didn't evolve ever thinking "I should avoid eating that because I already have too much fat storage". That just wasn't a situation that happened.
I’m an ER & Primary Care physician and this conversation is EXACTLY the conversation that I have with my patients every day. Great discussion and insights and explanations about risk, evaluating gurus, misinformation, and so on. Well done gentleman.
You have not actually seen sufficient evidence that they are right. I know this because the science does not support their claims that we need to eat a of vegetables and consume seed oils to be healthy. I would like to see a study that proves otherwise. Don't get me started with those weak epidemiological studies with massive confounding factors.
I respect doctors who say “I don't know”, as long as it’s followed by something like “let’s try to figure this out”. What really ticks me off is “I don’t know, but don’t worry because I’m sure it’ll stop soon”. And when you get this response from multiple doctors over a period of years, it’s beyond frustrating. If they don’t know the cause, how can they possibly say with such confidence that it’ll stop soon?
"we have a ... maintenance problem" applies to so many other things too. Doing the initial thing is relatively easy if it's a one-off, but keeping it up forever is hard.
As far as the nutrition aspects it’s more so people who lose a lot of weight do it by following unsustainable/ fad diets they don’t enjoy and doesn’t keep them satiated. If someone can master those two aspects of their diet it’s easy to keep the weight off long term
Ive been overweight my entire life. I was over 400 lbs in 2017. I have since lost 100 lbs. A diet is temporary. A lifestyle change is long lasting. I stopped eating out and changed the food in my house to salads, veggies, fruits, and meats.
It's not just what you eat but how much you eat is a bigger factor when compared to how much you burn. If your intake is larger than your burn that's often what leads to being overweight because the food has to go somewhere. There are other factors to it but that's one that often gets overlooked and is a major contributor. To be clear I'm not saying eating lots of food is the cause. I'm saying eating lots of food that you don't burn off is.
I can relate....I've struggled with weight my entire life too....some of us just have genetic predisposition to store fay preferentially...so I get your struggle... I was 240 pounds as a teenager and I was only 5'4"...... And yes...in 30 years of experience...avoiding refined flour-based sugar processed food is THE MAIN thing....protein, healthy fats, natural carbs and plants... Also you have to exercise daily.... HEY CONGRATS ON YOUR SUCCESS SO FAR! awesome...
Like you I’ve been overweight forever at 13 I was at ww and that screwed my relationship with food. My mum yo-yo’d I copied. It’s taken me many years I’m 10 stone down still a bit to go but probably lost 15/20 stone by screwing it up. Weightloss has to be sustainable and not a quick fix. It was weightloss surgery in vogue when I started I’d always said I couldn’t count calories I can and now from a fear of scales I weigh every day but am not fuled by a number. Well done on your loss it’s not easy and we all deserve to be happy with our weight whether that’s loosing it or putting it on.
Thank you Dr Mike for scrutinising over how you utilise your platform to make sure that your audience isn’t receiving misinformation or information that may be misconstrued. With countless successful podcasts not taking their platforms seriously when it comes to public health, it’s becoming a misinformation epidemic - very disheartening. Your integrity is so incredibly valuable.
Yeah it’s impressive. I was skeptical of him bringing Gundry on at first, even if he was critical of him, but when I see him bring Belardo on and making it really clear that this is not what he believes is correct, I felt more comfortable.
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk these studies.
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk them.
No joke. These two guys (and the others fighting for legitimate scientific literacy in their respective fields) are the antidote to the unqualified bozos running misinformation podcasts like Rogan under the guise of “just asking questions.” It’s a shame more people won’t pay attention to this nuanced conversation about not just nutrition, but how to spot the BS.
As a gym rat lucky enough to get their bachelors in Biochemistry and currently in Medical School; this collab felt like the avengers assembling. Incredibly work you two!!
Same. Gym rat who found themselves with a bachelor's in Kinesiology. (Not on your level by any means but I made it through) Love to see these two chewing the fat so to speak.
I cannot LOVE this video enough. There is so much knowledge about HOW to be a mature skeptic. Layne Norton is such an amazing scientist that lays it out in facts and supports the science behind his claims. I am a nutrition coach that has followed Layne for years and am happy to see Dr. Mike have his truth on here. MORE of this educational content, please!!!!
truth, pushing synthetic man made foods and synthetic man made pharmaceuticals as "science". How these options are even considered in a conversation blows my mind as someone who can distinguish the difference between nature and man made synthetics. Bring back logical thinking.
@@LaMereACanichethe natural fallacy is still so prevelant it’s crazy. How do people think humans are smart enough to explore space but can’t produce food that is healthy 😂 try eating mercury and see how good that NATURAL material feel👍🏻
@LaMereACaniche he didn't forget them. He obviously doesn't believe in them! Hahaha. Probably believes artificial sweetener is worse for humans than sugar
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk them.
As a patient with EDS and consequently have multiple weird health problems, when doctors say "I don't know" I get so happy, especially when they are willing to learn
I also have EDS, and sadly the UK and the NHS is a bit behind the times, I've been told "no EDS can't cause gastric issues" among other things, it gets annoying seeing people that clearly don't know my condition, I end up knowing more than my doctors, just cause I've read so many papers on it.
This was such a wonderful discussion. The garbage I see on social media makes me scream inside, and I have friends who get sucked into the exact garbage that you are pointing out. I feel like a skeptic about everything, to the point where I’m overly negative. But with the huge amount of misinformation out there, I feel like it’s necessary. The constant feeling of banging my head against a wall and frustration at the content you’re discussing makes me feel like I’m drowning! Does anyone else feel like that these days? Thank you so much for this video
Yes, I get the feeling, very much so. There is an episode on exactly that, the feeling of constantly fighting a losing battle, with Layne Norton on the Iron Culture Podcast. Highly recommend @taliahunt3213
As a drug addict, the point on food vs drug addiction resonated completely: I moved countries and started a complete new life to get away from drug addiction, and I'm no longer in contact with my old friends. People talking about food addiction in the same light just doesn't really add up to me.
It's absolutely great advice. And I feel like that's exactly what the pharmaceutical industry provides - an exit ladder to escape from acute danger. Meanwhile the health and fitness industry (the responsible ones at least) show us a slightly improved / more fire-safe strategy for building a new house. But the problem is that most people want to live in the same fire-prone neighbourhood that they were in before. The real work is to change our social and cultural expectations and build truly safe communities where it's easy to be healthy.
I know this episode won't get the most views but I honestly hope as many people see this one as possible. In todays society we want the quick fix, the secret formula and it really doesn't exist...Thank you Layne and Mike
A lot of people don't know how to look up research. My best advice is to find a reference librarian. They are needed now more than ever with how complex everything has become! Also, it takes a lot to take in and interpret the articles you read. The journal articles are often between 10-30 pages long. And a lot of jargon is used that can make finding your way through the maze even harder. But find your nearest university library and chat up the reference librarian to teach you how to use the references. This person is worth their weight in gold. And they seem to know everything!
I'm all for self education. I will also advocate for going to a primary care doctor to help you answer some of these questions. The statistical speak in some of these articles can be quite confusing!
An additional key component here, is that a lot of people, even if they could understand the research and weigh the quality of different types of peer reviewed studies, simply don't have access to them. A lot of peer reviewed research is behind rather expensive paywalls. If you aren't affiliated with a university or similar group, you don't have access to the full text of studies without paying anywhere between $20-50 to access a single study, which may or may not actually turn out to be helpful. It's also rather difficult to determine from an abstract whether the study you are looking at will be worth paying for (whether it answers the question you are asking with actual quality study design) unless you have been trained to do so. I can't tell you how many times in my undergrad and grad studies an advisor directed me to a study which the university no longer had access to, and I would either have to pay a significant amount of money for or track down the authors of directly to request a copy.
@@sydmm-ui8hm this is an excellent point. It's understandable why this research is behind a pay wall, people need to make money, but it certainly an inhabitance to people wanting to do independent research. How do you think we can either improve this or work around it?
Personal trainer / health coach here - this is literally the best podcast I have ever listened to! LOVE Layne Norton! Brilliant, sensible, plain spoken, and not overly impressed with himself. If I were still teaching high school, I would require my students to listen to this.
All diets have good results. Carnivore, keto, vegan, and so on. The reason why is because they all have one thing in common...they cut out the high processed foods and stick with whole foods. Thats the key, along with exercise. Not really complicated.
@@s.a.6082there is no shortage of protein in the American diet. There is however a shortage of fiber and phytonutrients… neither of which are in animal products. Eat plants and you get everything you need. And, nothing that is bad for you, such as saturated fat, heme iron, and other carcinogens.
My doc put me on Ozempic about 6 months ago. I lost some pounds, but never felt worse. Even felt like I was losing a lot of muscle mass. I threw that sh!t in the trash and started a diet (the type is irrelevant). I re-installed discipline into my eating behavior. Now I am down 30 more pounds (and counting) and I feel great. It really is a psychological change. The biggest thing that has helped me was not beating myself up if I F up with something. Always looking forward. If I have a "bad" dish/meal, I don't let it turn into a "bad" day/days/week/month. I accept the failure, debrief with myself to avoid a similar mistake in the future and get back on track with the next meal. It has been surprisingly effective for me. People, myself included, act like one bad thing during a meal kills all your progress - it doesn't! It actually has very little impact on your progress.
If you don't feel comfortable on a medication or it's not working that's something you should tell your doctor. Just immediately going into self medication and ceasing a medication can have terrible side effects (also please do not throw meds in the trash that can be harmful to both people and animals take them to a pharmacy to be disposed of).
@@AIHumanEqualitygoing on a diet isn’t “self medicating”. And there is no harm going off of a medication that you’ve only been prescribed for dieting. Also, pharmacies are just putting it in the trash as well so that makes no difference.
@@annad5130 You can believe whatever you want about diet pills but you still generally should talk about your doctor with meds you're taking or don't want to take. They've gone to school. Facebook is not a replacement for a university education. Pharmacies do not throw meds in the trash. They dispose of them usually by dissolving or destroying them in another manner. Please stop spreading misinformation.
@annad5130 meds get incinerated until there's no active medicinal properties definitely avoid throwing out in garbage flushing down toilet, etc. And I agree always good to consult with a doctor or even just pharmacist if it's okay to stop a medicication even if it seems like a simple medication. That's amazing though to getting off ozempic and prioritize a healthy diet, so much more sustainable and better for the body too. That's amazing to have lost that much weight! It's not easy!
Breath of fresh air seeing you two have a logical and compassionate approach to real life patients problems, not the outliers. Thanks for another great video.
hey dr mike, i know you probably wont see this but i had a few questions for you, for the last few weeks ive had really strange bowel movements, chest pains, sweaty cold feet, major fatigue, eye twitching and a few other things and i wanted to know what i should do from here
stop listening to doctors like this and turn to nature as intended, meat only. Your body will take care of the rest, the magical self healing meat sack you have been gifted with needs meat surprisingly. Rather follow doctors like Dr Anthony Chaffee who goes against the mainstream nonsense and focuses just on nature and real nature not man made fruits and vegetables "nature"@@chadbroski1677
I love the suggestions he makes for being well. Sleep, eat well, exercise vigorously, and manage psychological stress. Very simple things, but also take a lot of effort to do consistently! There is no secret for doing well.
The problem I have if he’s prescribing an individual solution to a communal problem. When you design communities that require cars, build schools kids can’t walk/bike to, make functional daily activity dangerous (no safe bike lanes/trails to run errands, not plowing/maintaining non-car transportation infrastructure, etc.), federal subsidies for the ingredients for hyper-palatable foods (corn/soy/wheat), stagnant minimum wages that mean most people don’t have time to cook from scratch, etc. You can’t solve the “obesity crisis” while maintaining the system that got us here in the first place.
Thank you, Dr. Mike! Layne is one of the handful of people on social media I 1,000% trust because he's ALWAYS willing to change his mind with evidence! 🔥🔥🔥
You have not seen any strong evidence that we need to eat a lot of vegetables and seed oils and avoid saturated fat to be healthy. They always point to weak epidemiological studies and ignore the studies that does not support their claims.
not even kidding this podcast is a dream come true, so so so happy to see dr layne here. truly. Dr Layne, and Doctor Mike, thank you so much for everything.
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk them.
@@halqthedarktemplar In a debate with Paul Saladino, Norton claimed that an epidemiological study had proven causation, and he insisted it did even after Saladino had pointed out that the study did not prove causation or even strong correlation as is with all epidemiological studies.
I really hope this video is seen by everyone who is interested in anything regarding healthy lifestyle in youtube/podcasts. Started watching Dr Mike few days ago - thank you for opening my eyes. Really needed that confirmation from such experts as both of you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping a young person who is struggling atm. I really hope for the greatest of success for both of you. Literally have goosebumps as I'm writing this. Thank you again!
As an ecologist, i have spent a lot of time studying other animals and the environment. These animals don't need social media influencers to tell them what to eat. They don't even need to know the science. They just eat food and move around. We are animals. We know how to eat, its natural instinct. A 2 year old knows that an apple is better for you than a candy bar. I feel like we make food and exercise way too complicated, and it makes it harder for people to be healthy. I was 170lbs in hs then lost 50 lbs. Ive kept it off for over 20 years. What i do is very simple. I eat real food and i go outside. The problem with our species is real food doesn't taste like a candy bar so we dont like it, and we really don't want to move around. It is my belief that anyone who can get over these two things and just eat real food and go spend time outside will see good results. You dont even have to worry about what food you are eating as long as nature made it, and it doesn't matter what activities you are doing as long as you are doing something. Even sitting outside will help because the sun regulates serotonin, which makes melatonin, so you feel better, and people who feel good become healthier. Just don't buy processed food and step outside your front door every day, even for 20 minutes. And no, natural foods are not more expensive than processed foods. An apple will always be cheaper than a candy bar.
Do you know that every fruit we eat we genetically modified ? Nature didn't made apple this size or this sugary, have you google what corn looked like before human agriculture started ?
Calories in/calories out is basic math and worked well for me before my 40s. But weight loss now is more algebraic. It has to take into account endocrinology, health problems, and my ADHD/ASD. Both my husband and I are in our 70s and behavior change is difficult to say the least. Finding what works is very hard.
As they stated in the podcast it does not...as you age you lose muscle mass and become more sedentary (on average) so while you may have maintained weight previously on X number of calories if you don't keep as active as you once were you will put on weight. If you eat less than you burn (at any age) you will lose weight. "Wasting" is often a complication as patients age as their appetite diminishes and they cannot maintain a healthy body weight.
@@whereruaaronbut you are assuming he is just like the typical statistics of the average pleb that does not exercise. It’s very easy to maintain both Testosterone and Muscle mass with age. I know plenty of 50-60y olds with splendid (free) Testosterone, low SHBG and great muscle mass with low visceral fat. Keeping those endocrine disruptors from environment, sleep (hygiene) on point, lift heavy, daily eat 200g+ quality proteins, avoid foods ruining hormonal panel and shooting up Estrogen high (grains and dairy).. stupid easy to upkeep a great body.
Calories dont exist on a carnivore diet, the human body doesnt chase calories, it chases nutrients. Anyone promoting calory restruction doesnt know proper nutrition. Within fatty red meat contains everything you need in the portions you need them, and your body will let you know when to stop eating to prevent over feeding. Case closed. You want a real doctor go listen to Ken Berry, Shawn Baker, Anthony Chaffee.
This has to be one of my favorite episodes. I love a continuous, evidence based discussion full of admission and acknowledgment of lack of knowledge/understanding. It felt both of you were truly caring of the other’s opinion. Great episode
As someone who thoroughly enjoyed taking statistics and sociology classes at my local university I absolutely love this video! I’ve always been one of those people who’s actually turned off by something being on an infomercial just because of all of the claims they make and instead will buy something based off of its reputation or practicality because I trust that more. I also hate when people use percentages as a way to make claims without the supporting evidence to show what those percentages are actually based on because 80% of 5,000 is very different than 80% of 50. Amazing video! I could listen to you two talk for hours, incredibly entertaining!
This has got to be the most informative, balanced, and common sense podcast discussion on nutrition that exists! Thank you! I have a lot of respect for both of you and the information you shared is pure gold.
I think the major problem is everyone wants a simple fix, aside from a lifestyle change. That, and science functions as "beliefs are true until disproven consistently" and it's much more comforting to say, "this is true now and forever." You two have hit the nail on the head for two hours here - Very interesting and engaging!
I love lane. So much great information but never dismisses the psychological. He is holistic in a good way not a nonsense new age way, but just in a common sense, empathetic realistic way
You are kidding, right? Science does not back neither of them. They just push the corporate message an rely on weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence available.
32:47: Bingo. People cannot judge what they don't understand, yet we still do. And people are naturally swayed by confidence/definitives, rather than by admitting uncertainty.
This is an awesome conversation. I have so much respect for both of these guys. Layne's intelligence and knowledge of this topic are incredible. I Love that he is practical and realistic as well as humble enough to accept correction. Dr. Mike, as always, is a boss. Congratulations to both of these men. 🤗
a big problem is a lack of media literacy and critical thinking on a massive scale. it is not like that wild to think that those of us without medical training or formal education in something may not understand any given topic, but it is extremely important for podcasters or anyone who is platforming misinformation to fact check and correct in real time or at the very least make edits so that audiences understand that something is misinformation.
This is honestly the most informative video I’ve seen in years . I’ve been a fan of Layne for years and he’s always been a plethora of knowledge . Thank you so much Dr Mike for having such an amazing platform to share such invaluable information. You two are fantastic and a constant beacon of clarity against a storm of misinformation. Your work is greatly appreciated
Emphasizing the difference between clinical significance and statistical significance with the number needed to treat is truly such a game changer in how I am processing the generalized information and “science” presented online. Thank you for sharing this amazing conversation.
I used to think also regarding ptsd and it being associated with soldiers in the war and that. However a lot of people may actually have ptsd. I have complex ptsd and slowly healing. I had always been invalidated and this was just normal in my household (but so not normal ) . We learnt to keep busy all the time and walk on eggshells as my dad would take his problems out on every one else , he’d always be hyperaroused and my mother in turn would be fight /flight. So of course my body had to adapt in order to survive. Learning to validate you’re own feelings is very soothing or finding someone who you can connect with. It is rewiring our brain and teaching the body how to be safe again.
THIS PODCAST WAS 🔥. Thank you Dr. Mike for introducing me to Layne Norton. This was a mental reset for me and enjoyed the content. I am forwarding this video to everyone I love who NEEDS a little "reset" perspective from two people I think were very objective. THANK YOU!
Much respect to both of them for promoting critical thinging, skepticism and rationalization! Very important qualities that society lacks these days...
So glad Layne is becoming more and more recognized. Need people like him to combat the overwhelming amount of bullshit in the fitness industry that relies on scaring everyone.
This is great advice on an individual level, but it's fairly useless in terms of the macro. People as a whole are swimming upstream because of incentive structures. Yes, we can all just choose to stop watching short-form content that wastes our time… sort of. Every individual can make that choice. But the reality is that most people won’t, since these content algorithms are designed to maximize attention capture. Tiktok and TH-cam are taking advantage of natural characteristics of our minds to make profit. Telling everyone to stop watching them isn’t going to do anything. Shifting the incentive structures away from the profit incentive is the only way to solve this problem in general.
Wow, I'm only on the first 3rd of this interview but I love the way this guy communicates! He's so approachable and easy to listen to but he's clearly extremely knowledgeable and, most importantly, careful with what he says and how it gets interpreted. It's just really nice and refreshing as a conversation between two people with a strong scientific background. Oh and I absolutely love how passionately and positively he talks about his graduate education and the valuable lessons he learned through that.
So many factors contributing to this, not just cheap tasty food - but there are links with air pollution, economy structure (a lot of people find stuff like bowling etc expensive, not everywhere has facilities and when they do not everyone can afford them) I think we can all agree that the behavioural issues start with a young age - we've probably all experienced the kids that get encouraged to go play outside, enroll in sports activities - and then there's the parents that either can't afford to support good behaviours or just tell their kids to sit down and shut up all the time, plonk their kids in front of the tv with junk food after a day in school where they've sat at a desk all day. Then when sports start being competitive, a lot of kids just think "I'm not good at this" and back away. That's IF they have access to things like parks, playgrounds and sports centres, a lot of places don't. Sometimes even when they do, there's high calorie snack/drink machines everywhere shoved in their faces, parks often have shops with things like cake, biscuits (cookies for USA) and ice cream. And all the time, it's pointed at people with obesity that they have "no willpower" and "fat shaming is justified". Nobody is taught what adequate food or exercise is, what you should do if you become obese - just get told "lose weight" when exercise makes you feel ill and sore, there's absolutely nothing to encourage weight loss.
The powers that be will not encourage you to lose weight instead they promote it and try to keep you buying there highly processed garbage then u are obese and riddled with issues and big pharma comes in to give you drugs that you are supposed to be on for life they want you fat and sick
I feel this. I wasn't an athetic kid and didn't ever enjoy organized sports so I never really learned how to be active in a way that wasn't just me doing something tedious poorly and feeling sick afterwards [I have mild asthma-like breathing issues that aren't improved with inhalers]. It has never been a positive challenge, confidence boost, fullfilling or engaging experience for me. Now as an adult, I'm overweight, don't particularly enjoy 'excersie activities' and have a hard time convincing myself to do something i don't enjoy and will make me feel like i'm drowning in my own lungs EVEN AS a someone with a biological science background that KNOWS it would get better with consistent excersie and the only solution is to 'just do it' even when you don't want to. I think this did a really good job acknowledging that the big problem is mental. How do people move past that 'I don't want to do this and could do something else' hurtle.
Great conversation! Sometimes, we as viewers get so excited when someone seems to have the answers to our ailments. We ignore common sense. Or we don't question the validity of what they are saying. That's why what you guys do is needed. ❤
They’re not well versed in that part of the issue, so they’re not going to talk about on a podcast where they point out the problems with people who aren’t experts talking about things they don’t know enough about.
@@maggiegonzalez7637 but car dependent sprawl is the primary reason people in America aren’t active enough A hundred years ago, every American got all the excercise they needed just getting around
@@coryascott I absolutely agree. My point is that these two particular individuals are not experts in how car culture and suburban sprawl have made us less active, especially in the US. One is a general medicine doctor and the other is an expert in nutrition. Part of what they talk about is how some people on the internet have spread misinformation because they were commenting outside of their field of expertise. I don’t think it would be appropriate for them to comment on that particular subject. I do think it is an important issue and I would love to see Dr Mike bring on someone who is an expert in the health effects of car dependency as we experience it particularly in the US.
Brilliant interview, enjoyed it tremendously. The part about how mechanisms can be misconstrued, that Layne often talks about, is so important. We need more of this, and both these guys are doing such a great job of promoting healthy scepticism. Hopefully Dr. Mike continues to use his platform to educate about this stuff.
Great conversation. Chris Van Tulleken goes into how food industry incentives encourages more consumption. Would be a really good guest for future episodes!
PMHNP telling discussion. I appreciate the mention about mental health being so important because obesity is very closely attached to childhood sexual abuse and trauma… and eating for many is a way to self-soothe and get some dopamine when you feel horrible about yourself. Always question group-thinkers. I think the issue is that many people were not taught logic in school. They are taught to accept ideologies and conform to the majority.
I think this was one of Dr. Mike's best podcasts yet. We need more helpful confrontation to propel critical thinking. We need more accountability on both producers and consumers. Thanks to all involved.
Thank you! Thank you for approaching this topic with the idea that every body is different and there isn't a magic answer for all...without shaming or blaming...as a person who has been all over the place with weight, I appreciate the vibe and have hope that I'll get to where I want to be. Thanks Dr Mike (and Layne)!
I am quite underweight for my age and people keep on telling me that I have to eat. But recently I saw a person who is the same age, eats lesser than me and is healthier. Even after looking through her diet, people kept on blaming me for my weight. That's why, Thank you for making this video. It really helps❤
Hey Olivia, yes it's fair to say you can't manufacture an appetite just to please people. If you do want to change your body I would say do regular exercise, and as seems to be all the flavour these years, start resistance training. You would need to take in more protein to avoid muscle pain and fatigue then but your body might increase your appetite to encourage you to do this. Not necessarily though. Wish you well.
That's not it. Underweight is not healthy. I was also underweight several years ago even though i eat slightly more than everyone else my age. The reason is simply because I have a higher base metabolic rate compared to other people, back then I simply eat more even though it didnt feel that good at first and now I'm at a healthy weight. Everyone's body is different and somtimes we need to eat more/less than other people even though they are at same weight as us
This is a good example of why it’s important to be very careful about whose podcast you listen to mindlessly while working, cleaning, etc. be cautious about outsourcing your thinking to other people.
I wanted some of those studies done with women in menopause then we speak again if it's only CICO. Millions of women in menopause who gained weight (mostly visceral fat) aren't suddenly eating a lot more.
A bit of a misconception of the CICO model. The calories out part isn't consistent; changes in hormones, nutritional status, disease states (like cancer for example) can changes how much calories your metabolic process uses. That doesn't mean reducing calories wont work, just that for some it will be harder and they might need more focus on improving other factors of metabolic health. Whilst losing excess bodyfat does this, it's not all that matter. Other factors to consider are protein and micronutrient intake, sleep quality and quantity, alcohol consumption, stress and exercise.
I’ve maintained a 140 lb weight loss for 17 years after gastric bypass. I am not ashamed and have taken my journey very seriously. I was not lazy and made this choice after Having Hashimoto’s hypothyroidism, FMSCFS & ‘female issues’ & losing weight wasn’t happening. With Roux-en Y, I still put in the work, but finally had a tool. I’m a unicorn 🦄 😃 I do wonder though why we never hear about SIBO … everyone battling IBS should be tested for SIBO. It’s rough 🤢😵💫 Thanks for sharing! 💕
My sister recently had this surgery. She was morbidly obese for decades. She's 56 and now living her best life! She's confident and steadfast in keeping her weight off. She carries around food that is now helpful in keeping her on track. Our family keeps food around that healthy for all of now! Some people may say this was a cop out, but I say it was a jump start! She's now off most of the medications that she was on! She moves and lives life! I'm grateful that I get enjoy many more years for her! Thanks for sharing! ❤
But isnt the gastric bypass the proof that you can indeed loose weight through CICO? If the thyroid and other issues would have stopped you from loosing weight than the bypass should not have made a difference?
This is so refreshing bc I just watched the double doc Mike video w an emphasis on a highly medicated future and how it’s an absolute that should happen vs Layne saying - idk maybe not it’s more complicated than we can predict at the moment. It feels carefully thought out and less blindly idilic to me.
Layne does an amazing, absolutely incredible, job with staying in his area of expertise and not forming opinions about things he is not entirely educated about. I can not express how much I appreciate that as someone in the medical field. Dr. Mike asked him to extrapolate so much and ask about these other topics and he always brought it back to food and nutrition and research.
Dietitian Nutritionist & Personal trainer here with my first job actually being in health coaching 🙋♀️ I love love love the nutrition science. Like Dr.Mike stated, we have to know that part first to help people with their nutrition. But I also, to my core, back what Layne says as well! I’ve found that one of the bigger hurdles is not actually getting people to understand the fine nuances of nutrition. It’s the behavior change and daily habits they need help with. These online gurus who try to tell you “fear this, fear that because of this chemical found in one study involving 10 people” are so unhelpful for the general public and add so much unnecessary confusion to nutrition. It’s soooo frustrating! What it comes down to (at least in my humble opinion) is really the basics, and doing them consistently in a way that doesn’t cause us unnecessary mental strain and harm (e.g worrying so much about every macro that you develop an eating disorder, or spending all of your life calorie counting, at the gym or at home meal prepping chicken and broccoli,so much so that you’re not fully living your life.) Often the extremists will confuse that with “don’t care about your health at all”… which is definitely missing the point 😂 but I love seeing more big influencers talk out against this crazy black and white thinking! I especially give it up to Layne Norton for how brutally honest he is and how willing he is to call out people like the Carnivore MD! 👏 He’s the light we need in the nutrition world! ❤
Hi Dr. Mike, thanks for this amazing podcast episode with Dr. Layne Norton. Yes, it is a huge problem for us scientists to come out as experts, since we are not so confident because there are so many parameters to consider. I am always trying my best not to put out any misinformation or wrong interpretation, which makes it hard for outsiders to understand what I want to bring across. Thanks a lot for making aware of this and clarifying things!!! Keep this great work up and thanks again! Looking forward for the next episode!
Boy how refreshing: "real experts don't talk like used car salesmen". I love it. Real experts don't advertise that way either too. Can I have dinner with you guys ? It's soothing to my brain and expectation of standards to listen to you.
Finally!!! Someone who is nuanced in this dieting/ nutrition world! I really appreciate that, as someone with a background in psychology. He looks at all evidence, doesn’t try to sell some type of product or diet plan, looks at different angles of the problem, is not judgemental, and his info is science based, AND he doesn’t cherry pick some old or poorly made studies to backup some controversial affirmations) !!! Thank you!
I really like that Layne mentioned at least once that he wouldn't speak on a topic because he is not an expert on that. Too many people out there will comment as experts without actually being experts.
This is an amazing podcast. As a dietitian I find I am constantly having to educate people on very large claims such as oils are so bad for you, Keto is the only way to lose weight, certain ingredients cause XYZ, which is often found in mass media. I love how you explain why people come to those conclusions and breaking it down so individuals can understand the flaws in these thought processes. Also by identifying that there is soooo much misinformation and giving the general population steps on how to identify bogus. I think it is very tough for people to decipher through all the information out there so I don’t blame them, however I find a lot of people don’t understand the harm their big claims can have when they blindly share their opinions to others and label it as the truth or what the next person should be doing.
As someone who used to be a trainer and went to uni for biochem for nutrition, people just listen to their favorite idols and not their bodies, much less a nutritional standpoint, the whole anti carb is bs when its all i pretty much can eat due to GI issues
This was absolutely eye opening on my own personal biases i have on diet and nutrition. Thank you Layne Norton and Dr.Mike! You should see if you can get Dr. Mike Isratel on the podcast. It would be the Dr. Mike v.s. Dr.Mike two of my favorite doctors on TH-cam. 🤣
When people say “touch grass” - these two live in the grass. Brings a tear of joy to hear such well balanced practical honest content on the internet 🥲 you two are rays of light in the muck ☀️
I love Layne, have followed him for years and a lot of his content has helped me to lose 100lbs and keep it off for years. I’m happy to see him getting a broader platform to share the sanity!
the current clinical guidelines state that people should be on GLP-1s longterm. why do we, as a society, treat weightloss so differently from other diseases, like hypertension? you don't just stop giving someone hypertensive medications after a year because they've maintained a "normal" BP for six months. they're maintaining the normal BP because the medication is helping. you don't just stop an antidepressant because a patient is in a wellness period. they're in a wellness period because the antidepressant is doing what it's supposed to be doing. the same concept should be applied to GLP-1s.
As someone who lost over 100 lbs through diet and exercise and kept it off for over 20 years: you absolutely have to create a new identity to maintain that weight loss.
Would really like to hear him respond to Marion Nestle's critiques on the food industry. I also find it interesting that Layne transitions from initially saying weight loss medications are a great tool and understanding human psychology is the path forward for behavioral changes to essentially saying "Just buy healthier foods and the food industry will stop making unhealthy foods." Yes they probably would, but they have also spent billions on figuring out how to make cheap, processed, unhealthy foods that feeds on our psychology to want to eat more of it. It is not that easy to "just buy healthier foods".
They've also spent billions on capturing and corrupting the whole field of nutrition and dietetics, which is why everyone is so confused about what humans are supposed to eat.
Mr. Norton makes some great points about trying to find the best information. Also how to identify the experts, especially when he says you must weigh each piece of information. And "You can't turn your brain off" even when listening to a researcher from Harvard. (Let's include John Hopkins and Mayo Clinic, too-and really any other science outlet.)
For someone who talks to a camera all the time as a job I really love how Mike has mastered the art of active listening. He's such a great host for a podcast, and awesome to listen to.
It was actually a really interesting interview but It's more that she was saying that she believes most obese patients could benefit from a weight loss drug. But she's also super adamant on making her patience, start weight training and get some lifestyle changes. She was really in line with what this guy is saying that the weight loss drugs can help kick-start things and help get someone out of the proverbial "burning building"
I'm on day 82 of carnivore and honestly I've seen more improvements in my debilitating mental health issues than 20 years of other treatments. And I tried everything. Carnivore was a desperation move. I'm shocked at the results. It needs be taken more seriously.
Have fun with scurvy, hypokaleamia, diverticulitis, gi infections, gi cancer, heart disease, kidney disease etc etc. It will catch up. Has to be the worst most disgusting diet in existence. Even obligate carnivores eat more variety and nutrients.
All you've done is the first part of an elimination diet (and probably caloric restriction). The second part is adding foods back in one by one in a systematic way to see which ones you can actually tolerate. Because only eating animal products is not healthy in the long run and it certainly isn't a magic panacea.
I am really happy to see more people challenging these types of diets. My own parents have gone borderline carnivore due to misinformation on the internet, and I am really worried that they are going to deal with severe cardiovascular problems in the future.
Please don't get in the way of your parents finally understanding human dietary requirements out of your own ignorance because you decided to trust different experts. As much as we are lied to and told its the case, our elders are not actually complete fools.
I think the reason carnivore works is that it's easy to do (you eat as much as you want, it's delicious and you feel satisfied). I think main benefit is not eating tons of sugars, carbs and highly processed foods which are generally very bad for your health. Helps lots of people with autoimmune diseases too. A pure carnivore diet forever is probably not the right thing for all people, but it can be a good starting point to slowly introduce things again and find a healthy balance and lifestyle change that works.
"Can't eat carbs, can't eat fats, can't eat proteins. Everyone photosynthesize and hope for the best" 🤣🤣🤣 I feel this quote with all the conflicting information out there.
Let me just get my leaves ready and stand in the sun for awhile.
Photosynthesis produces sugar (glucose) though so that's also not allowed, unfortunately
@@Kibannn😂
So… does this work or…
@@jillapalooza Don't know. It's now dark so I can't tell.
"The reason pple have difficulty identifying real experts is because REAL experts don't sound super sure of themselves". Oh my gosh, does this ever ring true. Not claiming to be an expert myself, but as a psych graduate, I cannot tell you the amount of times that I can feel myself losing credibility with people I can't give a direct answer to to some pop psychology thing that they are asking for a direct answer on. They are just not aware of the nuances and the 'maybes' or 'sometimes' involved in the thinking process around it.
It really helps to have a job where you stumble over your cluelessness on a daily basis.
Absolutely agreed. Also loved that quote. Every time I tell people “it depends, it may work, maybe can do X Y or Z”, I feel like the conversation goes the other way because my opinion gets desensitized since I used “maybe” and “it depends”.
I have learned that most experts who are actually smart are more then willing to accept other ideologies if it makes sense and are always questioning themselves, even if they know the answer.
Me regarding EVERYTHING ever lol also not any kind of expert, but I just cannot spit stuff out without disclaimers and ifs and buts 😂
The more you know, the more that you know how much you do not know.
also expert says gray statement. people like glister and colourful. they dont click murky nuanced stuff. hard to comprehend and needs attention and intellect
Psychologist here who works with people suffering from T2 diabetes, eating disorders, metabolic disorders, etc. and find this life-changing work incredibly rewarding. Much respect to both of these men! PS - we are built for survival, not enjoyment.
But we learned how to survive and that survival will draw us to things that we actually enjoy like sugary things and craving for salt. I think. Don’t really know but kinda makes sense at least to. But I totally agree with how the body itself works. =^_^=
I agree with you but believe we ‘enjoy’ sugary, salty, & fatty foods because eating these rarely found in nature foods likely increased our ancestors’ likelihood of survival. We’re still built to enjoy them but they are no longer ‘rare finds’ in nature but ubiquitous. Adding in tolerance (or habituation) we naturally develop in response to frequent exposure (similar to the caffeine example they spoke about), we need increasing amounts of these to feel or notice the ‘up’ feelings. BTW - love your signature 😻
In your opinion what is the main cause of the low willpower a lot of people exhibit when it comes to their bodies? It may sound reductionist but when someone continues to choose to do something that they know is having a negative outcome because changing is "too hard", I start to wonder how so many get into and stuck in that mindset.
@@elusivecamel I don't believe people are actually choosing to do something they know is having a negative outcome. No one I have worked with wanted to be physically or emotionally where they were (hence, seeing me). Even when truly motivated to have change in their life, effecting the changes necessary for that to happen is incredibly difficult. Or, as the saying goes, it is simple but not easy. We are 'creatures of habit'. In reality, we are built to not change. Most of us walk the same way we've walked since we learned how to do so. This is a simple trial I have done with many people: for the next week, change which foot you use first whenever you get up and begin to move. At first, you'll do it because it is fresh in your mind, seems easy enough, and it also feels quite odd to do so. Once the novelty has worn off (i.e. 10 minutes later) and you are back focused on the usual details of your life, you likely won't even think of changing your 'footedness' again until I ask a week or so later when we meet again (very, very likely after observing you using your original foot first as you arrive to meet). Almost all of the time, we are operating on a default mode. Change requires continued awareness (or mindfulness), intention, and action. Change is, indeed, hard. But so is a life of suffering...
Humans evolved in a relative food scarcity environment. Having the opportunity to consume an energy dense food was great. That energy could be stored for later use when we don't have any food. In the modern world, those periods of low consumption don't happen as much. We still have that drive to consume energy rich foods, because our brains evolved thinking those things are good and healthy, and increased our survivability. There were no fat cavemen. Not because they had the smarts not to eat the sugary fruits or the fat of the pig they killed. They did eat those things when they had them. But they didn't have access to them all the time. In today's world we have constant access to very energy dense foods, and our brains still crave those foods because they represent an opportunity to stockpile energy for a period of future scarcity. Those periods of scarcity never come though, so our bodies keep stockpiling.
It actually takes a degree of willpower to not become obese in today's world that those in the ancient world didn't need, because they didn't have the opportunity to become obese.
In short, our brains didn't evolve ever thinking "I should avoid eating that because I already have too much fat storage". That just wasn't a situation that happened.
I’m an ER & Primary Care physician and this conversation is EXACTLY the conversation that I have with my patients every day. Great discussion and insights and explanations about risk, evaluating gurus, misinformation, and so on. Well done gentleman.
You have not actually seen sufficient evidence that they are right. I know this because the science does not support their claims that we need to eat a of vegetables and consume seed oils to be healthy. I would like to see a study that proves otherwise. Don't get me started with those weak epidemiological studies with massive confounding factors.
Norton was owned in debate with Saladino. He learned that he should not debate ever again with him. Now he only throws punches at him from distance.
Is he advertising a drink called 'Liquid Death.' LOL...
I respect doctors who say “I don't know”, as long as it’s followed by something like “let’s try to figure this out”. What really ticks me off is “I don’t know, but don’t worry because I’m sure it’ll stop soon”. And when you get this response from multiple doctors over a period of years, it’s beyond frustrating. If they don’t know the cause, how can they possibly say with such confidence that it’ll stop soon?
Or “it’s idiopathic” - basically I don’t know, and I don’t plan to try and find out in doctor speak
"we have a ... maintenance problem" applies to so many other things too. Doing the initial thing is relatively easy if it's a one-off, but keeping it up forever is hard.
because so much of society is unhwalthy and addictive
As far as the nutrition aspects it’s more so people who lose a lot of weight do it by following unsustainable/ fad diets they don’t enjoy and doesn’t keep them satiated. If someone can master those two aspects of their diet it’s easy to keep the weight off long term
Ive been overweight my entire life. I was over 400 lbs in 2017. I have since lost 100 lbs.
A diet is temporary. A lifestyle change is long lasting. I stopped eating out and changed the food in my house to salads, veggies, fruits, and meats.
It's not just what you eat but how much you eat is a bigger factor when compared to how much you burn. If your intake is larger than your burn that's often what leads to being overweight because the food has to go somewhere. There are other factors to it but that's one that often gets overlooked and is a major contributor.
To be clear I'm not saying eating lots of food is the cause. I'm saying eating lots of food that you don't burn off is.
I can relate....I've struggled with weight my entire life too....some of us just have genetic predisposition to store fay preferentially...so I get your struggle...
I was 240 pounds as a teenager and I was only 5'4"......
And yes...in 30 years of experience...avoiding refined flour-based sugar processed food is THE MAIN thing....protein, healthy fats, natural carbs and plants...
Also you have to exercise daily....
HEY CONGRATS ON YOUR SUCCESS SO FAR! awesome...
Like you I’ve been overweight forever at 13 I was at ww and that screwed my relationship with food. My mum yo-yo’d I copied.
It’s taken me many years I’m 10 stone down still a bit to go but probably lost 15/20 stone by screwing it up.
Weightloss has to be sustainable and not a quick fix.
It was weightloss surgery in vogue when I started I’d always said I couldn’t count calories I can and now from a fear of scales I weigh every day but am not fuled by a number.
Well done on your loss it’s not easy and we all deserve to be happy with our weight whether that’s loosing it or putting it on.
Good job! 🎉
Congratulations on your ownership and recovery of your health.
Thank you Dr Mike for scrutinising over how you utilise your platform to make sure that your audience isn’t receiving misinformation or information that may be misconstrued. With countless successful podcasts not taking their platforms seriously when it comes to public health, it’s becoming a misinformation epidemic - very disheartening. Your integrity is so incredibly valuable.
Yeah it’s impressive. I was skeptical of him bringing Gundry on at first, even if he was critical of him, but when I see him bring Belardo on and making it really clear that this is not what he believes is correct, I felt more comfortable.
💯💯💯
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk these studies.
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk them.
No joke. These two guys (and the others fighting for legitimate scientific literacy in their respective fields) are the antidote to the unqualified bozos running misinformation podcasts like Rogan under the guise of “just asking questions.”
It’s a shame more people won’t pay attention to this nuanced conversation about not just nutrition, but how to spot the BS.
As a gym rat lucky enough to get their bachelors in Biochemistry and currently in Medical School; this collab felt like the avengers assembling. Incredibly work you two!!
Same. Gym rat who found themselves with a bachelor's in Kinesiology. (Not on your level by any means but I made it through) Love to see these two chewing the fat so to speak.
I cannot LOVE this video enough. There is so much knowledge about HOW to be a mature skeptic. Layne Norton is such an amazing scientist that lays it out in facts and supports the science behind his claims. I am a nutrition coach that has followed Layne for years and am happy to see Dr. Mike have his truth on here. MORE of this educational content, please!!!!
truth, pushing synthetic man made foods and synthetic man made pharmaceuticals as "science". How these options are even considered in a conversation blows my mind as someone who can distinguish the difference between nature and man made synthetics. Bring back logical thinking.
@@8Craig8 Did you forget your meds again? Things that are natural aren't inherently good, nor are made-made things inherently bad.
@@LaMereACanichethe natural fallacy is still so prevelant it’s crazy. How do people think humans are smart enough to explore space but can’t produce food that is healthy 😂 try eating mercury and see how good that NATURAL material feel👍🏻
@LaMereACaniche he didn't forget them. He obviously doesn't believe in them! Hahaha. Probably believes artificial sweetener is worse for humans than sugar
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk them.
As a patient with EDS and consequently have multiple weird health problems, when doctors say "I don't know" I get so happy, especially when they are willing to learn
So much better than know it all doctors that don’t listen to you!
There can be so much harm if they pretend they do know as well.
I also have EDS, and sadly the UK and the NHS is a bit behind the times, I've been told "no EDS can't cause gastric issues" among other things, it gets annoying seeing people that clearly don't know my condition, I end up knowing more than my doctors, just cause I've read so many papers on it.
More props need to be given to people who try to fight misinformation. They are unsung heroes that keep societies going.
Agree 100%. But the actual cure here would be fostering curiosity and improving access to education
long live carnivores
@@unprocessed_life that's an interesting oxymoron.
@@IzzyIkigai the only morons here are vegans
I want to start a blog debunking misinformation around women's health but I don't think anyone wants the truth
This was such a wonderful discussion.
The garbage I see on social media makes me scream inside, and I have friends who get sucked into the exact garbage that you are pointing out.
I feel like a skeptic about everything, to the point where I’m overly negative. But with the huge amount of misinformation out there, I feel like it’s necessary.
The constant feeling of banging my head against a wall and frustration at the content you’re discussing makes me feel like I’m drowning! Does anyone else feel like that these days?
Thank you so much for this video
Yes, I get the feeling, very much so.
There is an episode on exactly that, the feeling of constantly fighting a losing battle, with Layne Norton on the Iron Culture Podcast. Highly recommend @taliahunt3213
As a drug addict, the point on food vs drug addiction resonated completely: I moved countries and started a complete new life to get away from drug addiction, and I'm no longer in contact with my old friends.
People talking about food addiction in the same light just doesn't really add up to me.
best quote ever: “if the house is on fire get out of the house”- and encapsulates a truth that is insightful af *and* practical
Unless your body is on fire and you can't escape it
There are a lot of house fires no one's fleeing..
It's absolutely great advice. And I feel like that's exactly what the pharmaceutical industry provides - an exit ladder to escape from acute danger. Meanwhile the health and fitness industry (the responsible ones at least) show us a slightly improved / more fire-safe strategy for building a new house. But the problem is that most people want to live in the same fire-prone neighbourhood that they were in before. The real work is to change our social and cultural expectations and build truly safe communities where it's easy to be healthy.
18:25
Please tell me this comment is irony
I know this episode won't get the most views but I honestly hope as many people see this one as possible. In todays society we want the quick fix, the secret formula and it really doesn't exist...Thank you Layne and Mike
A lot of people don't know how to look up research. My best advice is to find a reference librarian. They are needed now more than ever with how complex everything has become!
Also, it takes a lot to take in and interpret the articles you read. The journal articles are often between 10-30 pages long. And a lot of jargon is used that can make finding your way through the maze even harder.
But find your nearest university library and chat up the reference librarian to teach you how to use the references. This person is worth their weight in gold. And they seem to know everything!
And jargon initially slows reading, after a few articles the jargon becomes part of your lexicon.
I'm all for self education. I will also advocate for going to a primary care doctor to help you answer some of these questions. The statistical speak in some of these articles can be quite confusing!
An additional key component here, is that a lot of people, even if they could understand the research and weigh the quality of different types of peer reviewed studies, simply don't have access to them. A lot of peer reviewed research is behind rather expensive paywalls. If you aren't affiliated with a university or similar group, you don't have access to the full text of studies without paying anywhere between $20-50 to access a single study, which may or may not actually turn out to be helpful. It's also rather difficult to determine from an abstract whether the study you are looking at will be worth paying for (whether it answers the question you are asking with actual quality study design) unless you have been trained to do so.
I can't tell you how many times in my undergrad and grad studies an advisor directed me to a study which the university no longer had access to, and I would either have to pay a significant amount of money for or track down the authors of directly to request a copy.
This is fantastic advice!
@@sydmm-ui8hm this is an excellent point. It's understandable why this research is behind a pay wall, people need to make money, but it certainly an inhabitance to people wanting to do independent research. How do you think we can either improve this or work around it?
Personal trainer / health coach here - this is literally the best podcast I have ever listened to! LOVE Layne Norton! Brilliant, sensible, plain spoken, and not overly impressed with himself. If I were still teaching high school, I would require my students to listen to this.
Exactly what I thought. What a refreshing and wonderful episode.
All diets have good results. Carnivore, keto, vegan, and so on. The reason why is because they all have one thing in common...they cut out the high processed foods and stick with whole foods. Thats the key, along with exercise. Not really complicated.
Im sorry but not vegan
They dont have the same results consistently though - most people who try vegan diets quit due to poor health outcomes
@@mcmcpoi-ra7405 not true. As long as vegans eat enough protein they can be very healthy.
@@s.a.6082there is no shortage of protein in the American diet. There is however a shortage of fiber and phytonutrients… neither of which are in animal products. Eat plants and you get everything you need. And, nothing that is bad for you, such as saturated fat, heme iron, and other carcinogens.
My doc put me on Ozempic about 6 months ago. I lost some pounds, but never felt worse. Even felt like I was losing a lot of muscle mass. I threw that sh!t in the trash and started a diet (the type is irrelevant). I re-installed discipline into my eating behavior. Now I am down 30 more pounds (and counting) and I feel great. It really is a psychological change.
The biggest thing that has helped me was not beating myself up if I F up with something. Always looking forward. If I have a "bad" dish/meal, I don't let it turn into a "bad" day/days/week/month. I accept the failure, debrief with myself to avoid a similar mistake in the future and get back on track with the next meal. It has been surprisingly effective for me. People, myself included, act like one bad thing during a meal kills all your progress - it doesn't! It actually has very little impact on your progress.
If you don't feel comfortable on a medication or it's not working that's something you should tell your doctor. Just immediately going into self medication and ceasing a medication can have terrible side effects (also please do not throw meds in the trash that can be harmful to both people and animals take them to a pharmacy to be disposed of).
I bet you have a sick trainer too
@@AIHumanEqualitygoing on a diet isn’t “self medicating”. And there is no harm going off of a medication that you’ve only been prescribed for dieting. Also, pharmacies are just putting it in the trash as well so that makes no difference.
@@annad5130 You can believe whatever you want about diet pills but you still generally should talk about your doctor with meds you're taking or don't want to take. They've gone to school. Facebook is not a replacement for a university education.
Pharmacies do not throw meds in the trash. They dispose of them usually by dissolving or destroying them in another manner. Please stop spreading misinformation.
@annad5130 meds get incinerated until there's no active medicinal properties definitely avoid throwing out in garbage flushing down toilet, etc. And I agree always good to consult with a doctor or even just pharmacist if it's okay to stop a medicication even if it seems like a simple medication. That's amazing though to getting off ozempic and prioritize a healthy diet, so much more sustainable and better for the body too. That's amazing to have lost that much weight! It's not easy!
Breath of fresh air seeing you two have a logical and compassionate approach to real life patients problems, not the outliers. Thanks for another great video.
Layne does such a good job talking through the science of these topics. Great episode!
hey dr mike, i know you probably wont see this but i had a few questions for you, for the last few weeks ive had really strange bowel movements, chest pains, sweaty cold feet, major fatigue, eye twitching and a few other things and i wanted to know what i should do from here
@@chadbroski1677 see a doctor?
@@doctormarazanvose4373 at the hospital as we speak
@@doctormarazanvose4373 doc said it was most likely a virus thing but for some reason in my head im thinking its cancer or something crazy
stop listening to doctors like this and turn to nature as intended, meat only. Your body will take care of the rest, the magical self healing meat sack you have been gifted with needs meat surprisingly. Rather follow doctors like Dr Anthony Chaffee who goes against the mainstream nonsense and focuses just on nature and real nature not man made fruits and vegetables "nature"@@chadbroski1677
The best and most unique part of this is layne and dr mike’s willingness to call out all these clowns by name and directly. really enjoyed it
I love the suggestions he makes for being well. Sleep, eat well, exercise vigorously, and manage psychological stress. Very simple things, but also take a lot of effort to do consistently! There is no secret for doing well.
Exactly!
The problem I have if he’s prescribing an individual solution to a communal problem.
When you design communities that require cars, build schools kids can’t walk/bike to, make functional daily activity dangerous (no safe bike lanes/trails to run errands, not plowing/maintaining non-car transportation infrastructure, etc.), federal subsidies for the ingredients for hyper-palatable foods (corn/soy/wheat), stagnant minimum wages that mean most people don’t have time to cook from scratch, etc.
You can’t solve the “obesity crisis” while maintaining the system that got us here in the first place.
I do all those things yet have severe anxiety and a panic disorder.
Thank you, Dr. Mike! Layne is one of the handful of people on social media I 1,000% trust because he's ALWAYS willing to change his mind with evidence! 🔥🔥🔥
Exactly, he done his PHD thesis on Leucine and has written many papers on it yet now he doesn't even take a BCAA.
The other 3 I trust are nutrition made simple, the proof with Simon hill and Physionic. All fact based, no quacks!
You have not seen any strong evidence that we need to eat a lot of vegetables and seed oils and avoid saturated fat to be healthy. They always point to weak epidemiological studies and ignore the studies that does not support their claims.
not even kidding this podcast is a dream come true, so so so happy to see dr layne here. truly. Dr Layne, and Doctor Mike, thank you so much for everything.
There's so much sanity in this video, it was a pleasure to see.
Hello 👋 how are you feeling today hope you're having a wonderful day 💕?
Right ! There's so little intellectual honesty on the internet that it feels like a breath of fresh air haha
Norton and Mike always talk about "evidence" and "science", and when they show their "evidence" and "science", they show weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence that debunk them.
@@AJ-vy4yu any examples or are you speaking out of your ass?
@@halqthedarktemplar In a debate with Paul Saladino, Norton claimed that an epidemiological study had proven causation, and he insisted it did even after Saladino had pointed out that the study did not prove causation or even strong correlation as is with all epidemiological studies.
Thank you so much for doing this collab. What a duo! 🙌 I've been following Layne Norton and you Dr Mike for years . Thank you both for it 🫶
I really hope this video is seen by everyone who is interested in anything regarding healthy lifestyle in youtube/podcasts. Started watching Dr Mike few days ago - thank you for opening my eyes. Really needed that confirmation from such experts as both of you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping a young person who is struggling atm. I really hope for the greatest of success for both of you. Literally have goosebumps as I'm writing this. Thank you again!
Was sad to hear this podcast end. Coulda listened for two more hours. People need to hear this stuff! Thank you both, Drs. Mike and Layne!
Hello 👋 how are you feeling today hope you’re having 🌹 a wonderful day?
As an ecologist, i have spent a lot of time studying other animals and the environment. These animals don't need social media influencers to tell them what to eat. They don't even need to know the science. They just eat food and move around. We are animals. We know how to eat, its natural instinct. A 2 year old knows that an apple is better for you than a candy bar. I feel like we make food and exercise way too complicated, and it makes it harder for people to be healthy. I was 170lbs in hs then lost 50 lbs. Ive kept it off for over 20 years. What i do is very simple. I eat real food and i go outside. The problem with our species is real food doesn't taste like a candy bar so we dont like it, and we really don't want to move around. It is my belief that anyone who can get over these two things and just eat real food and go spend time outside will see good results. You dont even have to worry about what food you are eating as long as nature made it, and it doesn't matter what activities you are doing as long as you are doing something. Even sitting outside will help because the sun regulates serotonin, which makes melatonin, so you feel better, and people who feel good become healthier. Just don't buy processed food and step outside your front door every day, even for 20 minutes. And no, natural foods are not more expensive than processed foods. An apple will always be cheaper than a candy bar.
😂😂 I don’t know how much you pay for apples wherever you live but where I’m from they’re $4 per pound!!
Do you know that every fruit we eat we genetically modified ? Nature didn't made apple this size or this sugary, have you google what corn looked like before human agriculture started ?
Calories in/calories out is basic math and worked well for me before my 40s. But weight loss now is more algebraic. It has to take into account endocrinology, health problems, and my ADHD/ASD. Both my husband and I are in our 70s and behavior change is difficult to say the least. Finding what works is very hard.
As they stated in the podcast it does not...as you age you lose muscle mass and become more sedentary (on average) so while you may have maintained weight previously on X number of calories if you don't keep as active as you once were you will put on weight. If you eat less than you burn (at any age) you will lose weight. "Wasting" is often a complication as patients age as their appetite diminishes and they cannot maintain a healthy body weight.
@@whereruaaronbut you are assuming he is just like the typical statistics of the average pleb that does not exercise. It’s very easy to maintain both Testosterone and Muscle mass with age.
I know plenty of 50-60y olds with splendid (free) Testosterone, low SHBG and great muscle mass with low visceral fat.
Keeping those endocrine disruptors from environment, sleep (hygiene) on point, lift heavy, daily eat 200g+ quality proteins, avoid foods ruining hormonal panel and shooting up Estrogen high (grains and dairy).. stupid easy to upkeep a great body.
@@GrgAProduction "stupidly easy" - your thyroid gland says hold my beer.
@@GrgAProduction So what is your argument...you either didn't read my reply clearly or are arguing the same thing I am
Calories dont exist on a carnivore diet, the human body doesnt chase calories, it chases nutrients. Anyone promoting calory restruction doesnt know proper nutrition. Within fatty red meat contains everything you need in the portions you need them, and your body will let you know when to stop eating to prevent over feeding. Case closed. You want a real doctor go listen to Ken Berry, Shawn Baker, Anthony Chaffee.
This has to be one of my favorite episodes. I love a continuous, evidence based discussion full of admission and acknowledgment of lack of knowledge/understanding. It felt both of you were truly caring of the other’s opinion. Great episode
As someone who thoroughly enjoyed taking statistics and sociology classes at my local university I absolutely love this video! I’ve always been one of those people who’s actually turned off by something being on an infomercial just because of all of the claims they make and instead will buy something based off of its reputation or practicality because I trust that more. I also hate when people use percentages as a way to make claims without the supporting evidence to show what those percentages are actually based on because 80% of 5,000 is very different than 80% of 50. Amazing video! I could listen to you two talk for hours, incredibly entertaining!
This has got to be the most informative, balanced, and common sense podcast discussion on nutrition that exists! Thank you! I have a lot of respect for both of you and the information you shared is pure gold.
Finally got Layne on!!!!! Perfect.
It's nice to hear some people on the internet trying to get to the bottom of things rather than asserting they already know, thanks guys!
I think the major problem is everyone wants a simple fix, aside from a lifestyle change. That, and science functions as "beliefs are true until disproven consistently" and it's much more comforting to say, "this is true now and forever." You two have hit the nail on the head for two hours here - Very interesting and engaging!
I love lane. So much great information but never dismisses the psychological. He is holistic in a good way not a nonsense new age way, but just in a common sense, empathetic realistic way
Who were you listening to? This guy has Zero empathy.
You are kidding, right? Science does not back neither of them. They just push the corporate message an rely on weak epidemiological studies when there is higher level evidence available.
Layne is awesome. Great conversation. I hope this reaches a lot of people.
Love tuning in to your videos, Dr. Mike! Always learning something new and useful. Thanks for keeping it real🙌😊
32:47: Bingo. People cannot judge what they don't understand, yet we still do. And people are naturally swayed by confidence/definitives, rather than by admitting uncertainty.
Layne hits the nail on the head about identifying real experts. I wish more people would give that reasoning some thought!!
This is an awesome conversation. I have so much respect for both of these guys. Layne's intelligence and knowledge of this topic are incredible. I Love that he is practical and realistic as well as humble enough to accept correction. Dr. Mike, as always, is a boss. Congratulations to both of these men. 🤗
Layne is a leader at dispelling harmful health advice. Keep up the great work Layne!
a big problem is a lack of media literacy and critical thinking on a massive scale. it is not like that wild to think that those of us without medical training or formal education in something may not understand any given topic, but it is extremely important for podcasters or anyone who is platforming misinformation to fact check and correct in real time or at the very least make edits so that audiences understand that something is misinformation.
This is honestly the most informative video I’ve seen in years . I’ve been a fan of Layne for years and he’s always been a plethora of knowledge . Thank you so much Dr Mike for having such an amazing platform to share such invaluable information. You two are fantastic and a constant beacon of clarity against a storm of misinformation. Your work is greatly appreciated
Emphasizing the difference between clinical significance and statistical significance with the number needed to treat is truly such a game changer in how I am processing the generalized information and “science” presented online.
Thank you for sharing this amazing conversation.
Norton claimed in a debate with Saladino that a certain epidemiological study had proven causation in a debate with Saladino...
I used to think also regarding ptsd and it being associated with soldiers in the war and that. However a lot of people may actually have ptsd. I have complex ptsd and slowly healing. I had always been invalidated and this was just normal in my household (but so not normal ) . We learnt to keep busy all the time and walk on eggshells as my dad would take his problems out on every one else , he’d always be hyperaroused and my mother in turn would be fight /flight. So of course my body had to adapt in order to survive.
Learning to validate you’re own feelings is very soothing or finding someone who you can connect with.
It is rewiring our brain and teaching the body how to be safe again.
THIS PODCAST WAS 🔥. Thank you Dr. Mike for introducing me to Layne Norton. This was a mental reset for me and enjoyed the content. I am forwarding this video to everyone I love who NEEDS a little "reset" perspective from two people I think were very objective. THANK YOU!
Much respect to both of them for promoting critical thinging, skepticism and rationalization!
Very important qualities that society lacks these days...
Thanks for the great conversation! You should really have Dr. Michael Greger on your podcast. It would be a great fit. Who agrees? Thumbs up!
So glad Layne is becoming more and more recognized. Need people like him to combat the overwhelming amount of bullshit in the fitness industry that relies on scaring everyone.
Absolutely agree here. Personal responsibility is vital in behavior modification. It’s accepting “what is”. Then, change is made.
This is great advice on an individual level, but it's fairly useless in terms of the macro. People as a whole are swimming upstream because of incentive structures. Yes, we can all just choose to stop watching short-form content that wastes our time… sort of. Every individual can make that choice. But the reality is that most people won’t, since these content algorithms are designed to maximize attention capture. Tiktok and TH-cam are taking advantage of natural characteristics of our minds to make profit. Telling everyone to stop watching them isn’t going to do anything. Shifting the incentive structures away from the profit incentive is the only way to solve this problem in general.
Wow, I'm only on the first 3rd of this interview but I love the way this guy communicates! He's so approachable and easy to listen to but he's clearly extremely knowledgeable and, most importantly, careful with what he says and how it gets interpreted. It's just really nice and refreshing as a conversation between two people with a strong scientific background. Oh and I absolutely love how passionately and positively he talks about his graduate education and the valuable lessons he learned through that.
So many factors contributing to this, not just cheap tasty food - but there are links with air pollution, economy structure (a lot of people find stuff like bowling etc expensive, not everywhere has facilities and when they do not everyone can afford them)
I think we can all agree that the behavioural issues start with a young age - we've probably all experienced the kids that get encouraged to go play outside, enroll in sports activities - and then there's the parents that either can't afford to support good behaviours or just tell their kids to sit down and shut up all the time, plonk their kids in front of the tv with junk food after a day in school where they've sat at a desk all day. Then when sports start being competitive, a lot of kids just think "I'm not good at this" and back away. That's IF they have access to things like parks, playgrounds and sports centres, a lot of places don't. Sometimes even when they do, there's high calorie snack/drink machines everywhere shoved in their faces, parks often have shops with things like cake, biscuits (cookies for USA) and ice cream.
And all the time, it's pointed at people with obesity that they have "no willpower" and "fat shaming is justified". Nobody is taught what adequate food or exercise is, what you should do if you become obese - just get told "lose weight" when exercise makes you feel ill and sore, there's absolutely nothing to encourage weight loss.
The powers that be will not encourage you to lose weight instead they promote it and try to keep you buying there highly processed garbage then u are obese and riddled with issues and big pharma comes in to give you drugs that you are supposed to be on for life they want you fat and sick
I feel this. I wasn't an athetic kid and didn't ever enjoy organized sports so I never really learned how to be active in a way that wasn't just me doing something tedious poorly and feeling sick afterwards [I have mild asthma-like breathing issues that aren't improved with inhalers]. It has never been a positive challenge, confidence boost, fullfilling or engaging experience for me.
Now as an adult, I'm overweight, don't particularly enjoy 'excersie activities' and have a hard time convincing myself to do something i don't enjoy and will make me feel like i'm drowning in my own lungs EVEN AS a someone with a biological science background that KNOWS it would get better with consistent excersie and the only solution is to 'just do it' even when you don't want to.
I think this did a really good job acknowledging that the big problem is mental. How do people move past that 'I don't want to do this and could do something else' hurtle.
Great conversation! Sometimes, we as viewers get so excited when someone seems to have the answers to our ailments. We ignore common sense. Or we don't question the validity of what they are saying. That's why what you guys do is needed. ❤
As usual, car dependency doesn’t get brought up when people not being active enough is talked about
They’re not well versed in that part of the issue, so they’re not going to talk about on a podcast where they point out the problems with people who aren’t experts talking about things they don’t know enough about.
@@maggiegonzalez7637 but car dependent sprawl is the primary reason people in America aren’t active enough
A hundred years ago, every American got all the excercise they needed just getting around
@@coryascott I absolutely agree. My point is that these two particular individuals are not experts in how car culture and suburban sprawl have made us less active, especially in the US. One is a general medicine doctor and the other is an expert in nutrition. Part of what they talk about is how some people on the internet have spread misinformation because they were commenting outside of their field of expertise. I don’t think it would be appropriate for them to comment on that particular subject. I do think it is an important issue and I would love to see Dr Mike bring on someone who is an expert in the health effects of car dependency as we experience it particularly in the US.
Layne is a guy that has helped me SO much over the years with just thinking more objectively. I loved this chat
Brilliant interview, enjoyed it tremendously. The part about how mechanisms can be misconstrued, that Layne often talks about, is so important. We need more of this, and both these guys are doing such a great job of promoting healthy scepticism. Hopefully Dr. Mike continues to use his platform to educate about this stuff.
Great conversation. Chris Van Tulleken goes into how food industry incentives encourages more consumption. Would be a really good guest for future episodes!
PMHNP telling discussion. I appreciate the mention about mental health being so important because obesity is very closely attached to childhood sexual abuse and trauma… and eating for many is a way to self-soothe and get some dopamine when you feel horrible about yourself.
Always question group-thinkers. I think the issue is that many people were not taught logic in school. They are taught to accept ideologies and conform to the majority.
WOOOOO Dr. Mike and Layne Norton, PhD!! Awesome!
I think this was one of Dr. Mike's best podcasts yet. We need more helpful confrontation to propel critical thinking. We need more accountability on both producers and consumers. Thanks to all involved.
Dr Layne Norton’s honesty is refreshing . What a wonderful man . Love his sense of humour too ❤
Thank you! Thank you for approaching this topic with the idea that every body is different and there isn't a magic answer for all...without shaming or blaming...as a person who has been all over the place with weight, I appreciate the vibe and have hope that I'll get to where I want to be. Thanks Dr Mike (and Layne)!
Hello 👋 how are you feeling today hope you're having a wonderful day 💕?
What species on this planet is so vastly different from individual to individual as to require completely different diets.
@@MathiasMartinWRnone ,good point!!
This conversation reinforces my bias toward observing carefully and keeping an open mind.🙃
I am quite underweight for my age and people keep on telling me that I have to eat. But recently I saw a person who is the same age, eats lesser than me and is healthier. Even after looking through her diet, people kept on blaming me for my weight. That's why, Thank you for making this video. It really helps❤
Thank you dr. mike😊for the video
Hey Olivia, yes it's fair to say you can't manufacture an appetite just to please people. If you do want to change your body I would say do regular exercise, and as seems to be all the flavour these years, start resistance training. You would need to take in more protein to avoid muscle pain and fatigue then but your body might increase your appetite to encourage you to do this. Not necessarily though. Wish you well.
That's not it. Underweight is not healthy. I was also underweight several years ago even though i eat slightly more than everyone else my age. The reason is simply because I have a higher base metabolic rate compared to other people, back then I simply eat more even though it didnt feel that good at first and now I'm at a healthy weight.
Everyone's body is different and somtimes we need to eat more/less than other people even though they are at same weight as us
@@donalclarke Thanks!
@@nrico6666 I agree
This is a good example of why it’s important to be very careful about whose podcast you listen to mindlessly while working, cleaning, etc. be cautious about outsourcing your thinking to other people.
I wanted some of those studies done with women in menopause then we speak again if it's only CICO. Millions of women in menopause who gained weight (mostly visceral fat) aren't suddenly eating a lot more.
They’re moving less
A bit of a misconception of the CICO model. The calories out part isn't consistent; changes in hormones, nutritional status, disease states (like cancer for example) can changes how much calories your metabolic process uses. That doesn't mean reducing calories wont work, just that for some it will be harder and they might need more focus on improving other factors of metabolic health. Whilst losing excess bodyfat does this, it's not all that matter. Other factors to consider are protein and micronutrient intake, sleep quality and quantity, alcohol consumption, stress and exercise.
@@sebastianboredal7486 It's just so hard to calculate your calories. And at some point I don't no what to do anymore.
I was just looking up info on how to change my diet and losing some weight. Cant wait to see this video all the way through!
You stumbled upon an absolute gem here. Good luck on your journey! 💪
I’ve maintained a 140 lb weight loss for 17 years after gastric bypass. I am not ashamed and have taken my journey very seriously. I was not lazy and made this choice after
Having Hashimoto’s hypothyroidism, FMSCFS & ‘female issues’ & losing weight wasn’t happening.
With Roux-en Y, I still put in the work, but finally had a tool. I’m a unicorn 🦄 😃
I do wonder though why we never hear about SIBO … everyone battling IBS should be tested for SIBO. It’s rough 🤢😵💫
Thanks for sharing! 💕
My sister recently had this surgery. She was morbidly obese for decades. She's 56 and now living her best life! She's confident and steadfast in keeping her weight off. She carries around food that is now helpful in keeping her on track. Our family keeps food around that healthy for all of now! Some people may say this was a cop out, but I say it was a jump start! She's now off most of the medications that she was on! She moves and lives life! I'm grateful that I get enjoy many more years for her! Thanks for sharing! ❤
But isnt the gastric bypass the proof that you can indeed loose weight through CICO? If the thyroid and other issues would have stopped you from loosing weight than the bypass should not have made a difference?
@@Laura-je2uwyes
I love Layne's work. Great to see you two having a great discussion
This is so refreshing bc I just watched the double doc Mike video w an emphasis on a highly medicated future and how it’s an absolute that should happen vs Layne saying - idk maybe not it’s more complicated than we can predict at the moment. It feels carefully thought out and less blindly idilic to me.
Layne does an amazing, absolutely incredible, job with staying in his area of expertise and not forming opinions about things he is not entirely educated about. I can not express how much I appreciate that as someone in the medical field. Dr. Mike asked him to extrapolate so much and ask about these other topics and he always brought it back to food and nutrition and research.
Dietitian Nutritionist & Personal trainer here with my first job actually being in health coaching 🙋♀️
I love love love the nutrition science. Like Dr.Mike stated, we have to know that part first to help people with their nutrition. But I also, to my core, back what Layne says as well! I’ve found that one of the bigger hurdles is not actually getting people to understand the fine nuances of nutrition. It’s the behavior change and daily habits they need help with.
These online gurus who try to tell you “fear this, fear that because of this chemical found in one study involving 10 people” are so unhelpful for the general public and add so much unnecessary confusion to nutrition. It’s soooo frustrating!
What it comes down to (at least in my humble opinion) is really the basics, and doing them consistently in a way that doesn’t cause us unnecessary mental strain and harm (e.g worrying so much about every macro that you develop an eating disorder, or spending all of your life calorie counting, at the gym or at home meal prepping chicken and broccoli,so much so that you’re not fully living your life.)
Often the extremists will confuse that with “don’t care about your health at all”… which is definitely missing the point 😂 but I love seeing more big influencers talk out against this crazy black and white thinking!
I especially give it up to Layne Norton for how brutally honest he is and how willing he is to call out people like the Carnivore MD! 👏 He’s the light we need in the nutrition world! ❤
Hi Dr. Mike, thanks for this amazing podcast episode with Dr. Layne Norton. Yes, it is a huge problem for us scientists to come out as experts, since we are not so confident because there are so many parameters to consider. I am always trying my best not to put out any misinformation or wrong interpretation, which makes it hard for outsiders to understand what I want to bring across. Thanks a lot for making aware of this and clarifying things!!! Keep this great work up and thanks again! Looking forward for the next episode!
Boy how refreshing: "real experts don't talk like used car salesmen". I love it. Real experts don't advertise that way either too. Can I have dinner with you guys ? It's soothing to my brain and expectation of standards to listen to you.
Finally!!! Someone who is nuanced in this dieting/ nutrition world! I really appreciate that, as someone with a background in psychology. He looks at all evidence, doesn’t try to sell some type of product or diet plan, looks at different angles of the problem, is not judgemental, and his info is science based, AND he doesn’t cherry pick some old or poorly made studies to backup some controversial affirmations) !!! Thank you!
Having following Dr Mike for years and Biolayne for much longer, I love this collaboration. Thank you both!
I really like that Layne mentioned at least once that he wouldn't speak on a topic because he is not an expert on that. Too many people out there will comment as experts without actually being experts.
Jordan Peterson 😮
This is an amazing podcast. As a dietitian I find I am constantly having to educate people on very large claims such as oils are so bad for you, Keto is the only way to lose weight, certain ingredients cause XYZ, which is often found in mass media. I love how you explain why people come to those conclusions and breaking it down so individuals can understand the flaws in these thought processes. Also by identifying that there is soooo much misinformation and giving the general population steps on how to identify bogus. I think it is very tough for people to decipher through all the information out there so I don’t blame them, however I find a lot of people don’t understand the harm their big claims can have when they blindly share their opinions to others and label it as the truth or what the next person should be doing.
As someone who used to be a trainer and went to uni for biochem for nutrition, people just listen to their favorite idols and not their bodies, much less a nutritional standpoint, the whole anti carb is bs when its all i pretty much can eat due to GI issues
This was absolutely eye opening on my own personal biases i have on diet and nutrition. Thank you Layne Norton and Dr.Mike!
You should see if you can get Dr. Mike Isratel on the podcast. It would be the Dr. Mike v.s. Dr.Mike two of my favorite doctors on TH-cam. 🤣
These blokes have presented the most valuable post that I have watched in many years.
When people say “touch grass” - these two live in the grass. Brings a tear of joy to hear such well balanced practical honest content on the internet 🥲 you two are rays of light in the muck ☀️
I love Layne, have followed him for years and a lot of his content has helped me to lose 100lbs and keep it off for years. I’m happy to see him getting a broader platform to share the sanity!
This is awesome, but the irony of the "Liquid Death" next to Dr. Norton is not lost on me. I'm dying 😂
They have great marketing for a water brand lol.
the current clinical guidelines state that people should be on GLP-1s longterm. why do we, as a society, treat weightloss so differently from other diseases, like hypertension? you don't just stop giving someone hypertensive medications after a year because they've maintained a "normal"
BP for six months. they're maintaining the normal BP because the medication is helping. you don't just stop an antidepressant because a patient is in a wellness period. they're in a wellness period because the antidepressant is doing what it's supposed to be doing. the same concept should be applied to GLP-1s.
As someone who lost over 100 lbs through diet and exercise and kept it off for over 20 years: you absolutely have to create a new identity to maintain that weight loss.
Every time I watch your podcast, I always learn SO MUCH
Would really like to hear him respond to Marion Nestle's critiques on the food industry. I also find it interesting that Layne transitions from initially saying weight loss medications are a great tool and understanding human psychology is the path forward for behavioral changes to essentially saying "Just buy healthier foods and the food industry will stop making unhealthy foods." Yes they probably would, but they have also spent billions on figuring out how to make cheap, processed, unhealthy foods that feeds on our psychology to want to eat more of it. It is not that easy to "just buy healthier foods".
They've also spent billions on capturing and corrupting the whole field of nutrition and dietetics, which is why everyone is so confused about what humans are supposed to eat.
Mr. Norton makes some great points about trying to find the best information. Also how to identify the experts, especially when he says you must weigh each piece of information. And "You can't turn your brain off" even when listening to a researcher from Harvard. (Let's include John Hopkins and Mayo Clinic, too-and really any other science outlet.)
For someone who talks to a camera all the time as a job I really love how Mike has mastered the art of active listening. He's such a great host for a podcast, and awesome to listen to.
I feel like a condensed version of this talk should be mandatory in school or well for every adult too tbh
OMG YES!! My 2 favorite health related youtubers!
The fact that an endocrinologist believes everyone should be on a weight loss medication, is pure insanity
It was actually a really interesting interview but It's more that she was saying that she believes most obese patients could benefit from a weight loss drug. But she's also super adamant on making her patience, start weight training and get some lifestyle changes. She was really in line with what this guy is saying that the weight loss drugs can help kick-start things and help get someone out of the proverbial "burning building"
@@audreybringgold6217 yeah, it was disappointing that Dr Mike misrepresented what she said like that.
@audreybringgold6217 yeah I was like there's no way they said it that way, and if they did, nothing they say after that is worth listening too
I'm on day 82 of carnivore and honestly I've seen more improvements in my debilitating mental health issues than 20 years of other treatments. And I tried everything. Carnivore was a desperation move. I'm shocked at the results. It needs be taken more seriously.
Have fun with scurvy, hypokaleamia, diverticulitis, gi infections, gi cancer, heart disease, kidney disease etc etc. It will catch up.
Has to be the worst most disgusting diet in existence. Even obligate carnivores eat more variety and nutrients.
All you've done is the first part of an elimination diet (and probably caloric restriction). The second part is adding foods back in one by one in a systematic way to see which ones you can actually tolerate. Because only eating animal products is not healthy in the long run and it certainly isn't a magic panacea.
It’s great for you - that is not science
@@Christopher-md7tf people are starting to get scurvy.
@@foolishlyfoolhardy6004 People are not starting to get scurvy.
Behavior modification is very difficult...exactly why addiction is so so very difficult to overcome, especially difficult to overcome...
I wish more people were comfortable with "I don't know"
Not just comfortable…understand what it means and accept the words for what they really are!!!!
Didn't he do a Ted talk about that?
@@SarahAbramova yes 💪
Whenever I say that I get someone irate.
I am really happy to see more people challenging these types of diets. My own parents have gone borderline carnivore due to misinformation on the internet, and I am really worried that they are going to deal with severe cardiovascular problems in the future.
Carnivore is the best thing they can do for themselves.
Please don't get in the way of your parents finally understanding human dietary requirements out of your own ignorance because you decided to trust different experts. As much as we are lied to and told its the case, our elders are not actually complete fools.
I think the reason carnivore works is that it's easy to do (you eat as much as you want, it's delicious and you feel satisfied). I think main benefit is not eating tons of sugars, carbs and highly processed foods which are generally very bad for your health. Helps lots of people with autoimmune diseases too. A pure carnivore diet forever is probably not the right thing for all people, but it can be a good starting point to slowly introduce things again and find a healthy balance and lifestyle change that works.
@@amyfu2047 No, it is really not.
@@MathiasMartinWR Buddy, I am basing my position off of the abundance of research in this field.