I'm so sorry. As someone who has seen a mother with bipolar disorder and depression go through this from a young age, I've seen the harms it can cause. Wishing you the best 😊
I have chronic anxiety. An depression. I understand social media damaging to target people. Just for views or whatever. Don't feel alone. Media like that bully everyone likes in school. Do your best head up. Your pawsome.
It isn’t just a lack of time with an MD and DO that pushes people towards alternative medicine. So many doctors don’t listen regardless of the time spent with the patient. My doctors wrote off my diverticulitis as being in my head. I spent months basically starving because of it. I went in dozens of times to dozens of doctors and got told things like “try talking to someone”, “find a hobby to distract yourself”, “go on a walk”… In fact I got dumped off on alternative medicine. My gastroenterologist, pcp, and urgent care doctors told me to go to acupuncture. Acupuncture doesn’t help with diverticulitis. It was five months before they actually found and diagnosed the diverticulitis. My bowel ended up perforating and I almost died. I am broken after what they did to me. Doctors need to own that a huge reason patients go to alternative medicine is because the patient is suffering and instead of being helped they get gaslit
Sorry this happened to you. 😢 that's terrible!! I feel blessed that I have a PCP that actually listens and doesn't rush appointments nor judges me. During my last visit, I told her how thankful I am having her as my family physician.
That situation sucks! I'm not even in the US and this "malpractice" if we could call it that it seems to be a PANDEMIC amongst practicioners around the world. Idk what the hell it is but they have gotten lazier, dismissive and in some cases, it does feel they have become more stupid.
I completely get what you're saying. I've been having pain in my muscles and joints for the past couple of years that are geting worse and doctors haven't figured out what's wrong with me. I get the impression they think I'm a hypochondriac. As much as I believe in science and medicine I haven't had much luck in terms of finding a doctor that actually cares. I've recently been considering acupuncture, because I know it's supposed to work on the fascia and my symptoms do seem like they could be caused by that. I'm still hesitant, because quite frankly it seems ridiculous, but I'm getting desperate enough to try it.
@@chrys9256I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with that. It’s not pleasant for anyone, especially when you’re already not feeling well. I can only offer my own anecdotal experience, but I found acupuncture quite helpful surprisingly - my expectations were low but I was surprised to find a reduction in my head and neck pain (what I got it for mostly). But everyone is different. I always try relax if possible before new treatments too, sets my body up for success and I don’t get as disappointed if it doesn’t work too well. At the end of the day, even if it’s a placebo effect I really don’t care. I’ll leave the bizarre burocracy and competition to the drs.🙃All I care about is whether it helps or not. Also something to note - when I was in vet school before my condition really kicked off, I worked under a vet who specialises in holistic medicine alongside standard medicine. We would work closely with patients of various illnesses/injuries and a lot of them truly seemed to benefit from acupuncture, specifically electroaccucunture. I’ve genuinely seen more than one dog and cat regain a lot of mobility (not fully but pretty darn close!) and have significant pain reduction after being partially paralysed/hit by cars etc. and there’s not really a placebo effect with animals. Of course there’s other factors but the research in animal medicine is actually quite strong and not to be written off. I’m someone of the mindset that we don’t know what we don’t know, and I’m not gonna write something off that could potentially help people just because it’s yet to be fully understood. If it’s proven definitively to not work, then fair enough, but until then, why close ourselves off to possible ideas, especially when it’s people’s lives and quality of life at stake. Just seems odd to me for drs to always wanna do.🤔 I hope you get some relief soon. Same for everyone else too.💜
I'm trained in Therapeutic Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Reflexology. The biggest difference between my training and the treatments you get at spas is that we also learn about pharmacological drug interactions in relation to what we do and how medications interact with one another, we touch on pathology and how what we do can influence certain conditions and it is HEAVILY emphasized that we never, ever go against a medical professional's treatment, never dismiss or adjust the treatment plan and always, always refer back to the healthcare team for feedback and assistance.
@TheMimmieb agreed, that's just bogus. Physical ailments can respond very well to touch therapies, heck even depression because it treats the touch-starvation, but it is not a cure by any means.
Please Doctor Mike do a podcast with a forensic pathologist. I want to learn more for this specialty but unfortunately its on of the least famous specialities out there and therefore there is not a lot of information from real professionals working on this field. Thank you very much for all the useful information that you have gave us all these years.
There are a number of books out there on the subject if you can get them through your public library system. I would recommend some of the accounts of Dr. Henry Lee and Dollhouse Mysteries. Even though it only touches on forensics Stiff by Mary Roach, it has a chapter on the Kentucky Body Farm and the forensics work they do there.
Lol you know why people go into pathology? They love medicine and hate talking 😂 seriously it was my original pathway of choice and I spent most of my teen years in path labs - a place of utter silence - blissful for me but getting one to talk ... Not so easy 😂
Hi Doctor Mike, I’ve been watching your videos for a while (years), and really admire your integrity, kindness, personality and ofc the fact that you’re a doctor. Recently, in my country India there has been a (r)ape and (m)urder case of a resident female doctor ON SITE in Kolkata. It is being speculated that a LOT of POWERFUL people are involved INCLUDING the STATE Govt. itself! We really need the world to come together to advocate for healthcare staff safety, safety of all women and for people to be held accountable for their heinous crimes. PLEASE PLEASE even a small TH-cam short and an Instagram story from you regarding this case would mean the world for us women in India and for all doctors, nurses and healthcare staff around the world. It would also push more awareness and can help the criminals being held accountable.
How do you know he’s actually all those things you call him? He may have an ex who thinks he’s an a-h or he may have cheated his way through his exams. How do you know if that’s true or not?
@@dickschwanzstein1789he’s like double board certified, is a national figure who advocates for all the right things, and there is no evidence to prove otherwise. It’s like, how do you know your dad isn’t a child pornographer? How do you know Betty White isn’t a rapist?
@petmashup2672 You know, im just seeing a lot of comments below videos where people are praising the guy or gal running the channel just a little bit too much
Dear Dr. Mike I wish there were more doctors like you that actually take the time to see and treat the patient as a whole. I cant seem to find a doctor who doesn’t blatantly dismiss my concerns stating “you’re just stressed” or “you’re young so you’ll be fine”. My ATF is what I’m going through is “normal” because I’m a woman. In a perfect world all doctors would be inquisitive, open to new ideas, deliver quality patient education and be willing to have a conversation. Thank you for spreading your knowledge and for inspiring other doctors to DO BETTER. Currently accepting recommendations for a D.O in the San Antonio or Austin area. 😅
Dr mike, these in-depth conversations with experts are so incredibly valuable. I know there are a lot of work for you and don't get as many views as your shorter videos, but please continue with this profoundly thoughtful and useful content
Anyone that says depression isn't real has never experienced depression, not severe depression anyway and until you have been there you can't possible know what it's like. Even psychologist that are treating it can't know the struggle no matter how hard they try if they haven't experienced the disease.
Seriously. I’m in my 40s and now right before my period I get depressed. Like clinical type. It’s just a deep dark feeling. And no “reason”. I really realized when one time everything was going right in my life and I still had the feeling. It’s chemical. Luckily I have enough life experience to know that (for me at least) it’s cyclical and will be over in a few days so I just ride the wave. But it really sucks.
I have major depression and complex PTSD, both of which are successfully treated with medications. I had to wade through an obscene amount of quackery to get here, which fills me with so much anger.
@@Mama_Bear524 Yep it can be very tough to just get out of bed. I just feel unless you go through it you can't related. It's not as easy as pulling yourself up by your boot straps as so many say to do.
@@dylanbly3468Yes you can, it’s called premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD), and it means one can have severe symptoms of depression, anxiety, irritability, mood swings etc. 1-2 weeks before their period, after which it subsides and starts again in the next cycle. It can be debilitating, you can even become suic🆔al. I don’t appreciate you questioning people’s experiences of depression out of your 🫏.
I like what this guy had to say. I also want to suggest that you get Dr. K on for another episode! He has a lot more to say on gaming addiction and our modern mental health crisis.
I don't really liked how they took Dr. K topic, it was too superficial that they made him seem bad, which his not, he uses modern medicine with the support of ayurveda not the other way. It's like in the news when they short a topic so hard that it gives whole other idea,
I agree, I think the description that Dr. Mike gave to Dr. Stea about Dr. K was a little inaccurate, especially with the facial feature part. I trust Dr. K because of his use of evidence, and I view the Ayurvedic medicine as an interesting cultural/history lesson.
I’ve heard someone put it like this. “Modern medicine is taking all the good stuff and getting rid of the bad stuff. And putting it in a dosage that’s not completely random”
Yes that is true for example opioids are a natural occurring thing in plants like poppies but they are a controlled substance that can be given to people with chronic pain in a small dosage if people were just self medicate they can poison themselves, never claimed nature was safe their does need to be control but there is expenses and pharmaceutical company extortion and other safer alternatives that are still waiting on scientific approval.
I agree nature can be dangerous and consist of controlled substances that in accurate doeses can help people and you need someone trained to do that but their is pharmaceutical extortion things sold that people cant afford and they can be left with little options, things will change things will advance an improve and scientists will prove more things that right now seem like a falacy and then they disprove the nonsense. Things that are done in medicine today will change like it has done from the past. But nature started it the Greeks used herbal remedies that worked unfortunately they didn't get everything right cos of lack of knowledge but today their is still things to be learnt. An those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it
Finally someone understands. If an alternative medicine really works, science will isolate the main component, learn how to reliably produce it, and assign proper dosages for people.
I love that the conversation wasn’t so much about which method of treatment is right or wrong, but which is ethically correct. Appreciate the respectful conversation!
"Alternative medicine by definition has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work. Do you know what we call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine." -Tim Minchin
@@PROVOCATEURSK While the critique has some merits don´t you think competition from these alternative treatments would just out compete big pharma if they would actually work? People are willing to pay a lot for their health and if a treatment does work well it would naturally spread around the globe and make the person who owns the intellectual property very rich.
@@PROVOCATEURSKthe most prescribed drug in America costs less than $7 for a 3 month supply. If prescribers are all about profits first that wouldn’t be the case.
I appreciate the focus on evidence based practice that you bring to social media. We need more doctors and clinicians that help the public see the misinformation in the health sectors - I’m a board certified behavior analyst and board certified music therapist and have struggled when those providing evidence based practices also pair themselves with pseudoscience.
@@sillyjellyfish2421 Yeah, who wants to think about how many kidneys and intestines water has passed through on its way to whatever organ of excretion that animal has. 😅
@@sillyjellyfish2421 I swear the water totally has memory of the taste of poop/pee/puke etc. Otherwise why would homeopathy cure my constipation, diarrhoea, urine problem and food poisoning? /s
Dear Dr. Mike, Dear Checkup Podcast Team, and Dr. Jonathan Stea, Thanks a lot for this wonderful episode. I enjoyed every second. Especially the discussion how social media is fueling the missinformation. Me as a small science communicator, I feel your support and gives me the strength to continue. As you said we need more good science communicators out there talking about the nuances in scientific literature. In addition make it accessible for the people. I want to thank both of you for your incredible work! I wish you all the best and keep on the great work! Many greetings from a scientist.
Definitely agree that desperation is a big driving factor to the prevalence of “alternative” medicine. Usually because people either: A) have been failed by scientifically proven medicine Or B) don’t have access to it. Unfortunately, alternative medicine methods via social media are much more accessible than scientifically proven medicine. Hope we can change that in the future.
I think the thing to realize about why people go to alternative medicine is because of bad experiences with evidence based medicine. Most people I know have not been taken seriously by doctors, some even having been sent home with a life-threatening illness that almost paralyzed them. Alternative medicine has anecdotes, misinformation, and coincidences to offer, but they listen and take seriously anything the patients say. There is a reason that people go to these things
Absolutely this is a reason, but people also don't realize that just because something is labeled as natural doesn't mean it's not harmful, so when they harmful outcomes from traditional medicine, they're not realizing it's still a risk in "alternative medicine". One is just typically more ethical. We definitely need more physicians who listen to patients. I've acquired some amazing docs who listen to me and take me seriously, but it has taken some work.
I have some skepticism of evidence based medicine, where studies take the broadest groups and test medication on them, not adequately making up for human diversity. Doctors are supposed to do that, and while there are great doctors, they aren't quite equipped to hone in on the individual. Study design, classification(what counts as X?) and corruption, play a big role too. This does not mean inventing woo, but there is space for a cautious grey area. The human body and mind are complicated, we should be humble about that.
I am a lifestyle medicine educator. One of the things i find fascinating is that the healthy behaviors that help heal one disease also have positive effect on other diseases. I have helped people who wanted to treat their hypertension and found that increasing exercise, learning to manage their stress and changing their diet caused their overall mood to improve.
That is one of the reasons people look beyond traditional medicine: lifestyle matters and people need help implementing lifestyle changes like exercise or eating more vegetables and fruit.
@@k.h.6991 I totally agree with you. My only thought is that we need to train medical staff in LM because for the majority of people, the medical authorities are their first point of contact when there is a health issue. I hope we can move forward with this in our care for people - it is just commonsense but so far, it is NOT common.
This was very enlightening. I was going to wait until I had finished his book before I watched this, but this interview has given me a glimpse into Dr. Stea's philosophy -- now I know how to approach the book. (I will, most likely, rewatch this interview after I have finished the book.) Dr. Mike, as always, is such a fine interviewer. His casual approach to difficult subjects is admirable. He puts (most) of his interviewees in a safe place to share real thoughts and information. Great job! (Dr. Mike always does a great job with these interviews, but this one was especially good -- dealing with some very sensitive subjects.)
Even if he doesnt see this, I just wanted to say thank you and huge ups for Dr.Stea and what him and his team do. Im sure they don't hear it as often as they should. Go Dr.Mike and team for spreading light on a good doctor again and good subjects. ❤❤
Just starting to watch the video now but have to say., YAAAAY a Canadian! 🍁 Love to see other fellow Canadians on big platforms as it doesn't happen that often I find.
Loved this episode. Such an important discussion. I so wish everyone would listen to this. Alternative “medicine” is not victimless, and the victims are usually desperate and vulnerable. It upsets me to no end seeing so many people exploited by these grifters.
Doctor Mike, as a new acupuncturist I'd love to see you do a talk with someone trained in Eastern Medicine Acupuncture and Herbs. I can't speak for every acu program but western biomedical component of the school I graduated from was hefty, then you add the eastern on top of it. We are trained to see red flags and refer out to MD/DOs often. We know we can't treat everything and that there are things MD/DO can treat quicker and easier than us. Have been a long time watcher, and appreciate your conversations around these topics. I truly think you would be surprised how much Acupuncture and Western Medicine have in common.
Great and straightforward analysis from Dr. Jonathan Stea! It's true that 'alternative medicine' often relies on unsupported claims and marketing tricks. It's essential for us to focus on evidence-based medicine, where science, clinical judgment, and patient values are prioritized. Thanks for shedding light on this topic!
Love this episode. The fact that we are thinking in heuristiks, supported also by reels etc. is also a developement I observed over the years. People are less likely to get proper Information.
ive been watching you dr mike for a very long time and because of you i want to be a doctor now because i want to learn about the human body and the immune system and diseases and more that means youve encouraged me to be a doctor and im gonna try to get amedical degree and help people in need of medical assistance.
Thank you so much!! Here in Europe as well we have so much misinformation and alternative things to be aware of. I am greatly worried for myself but more worried for others who can´t get right help because of the mess we have. I am so glad over this long video that I could finish in three days. I will definitely recommend people, organizations, health workers etc. to listen and pay attention to what you openly talked about. I really hope we get all misinformation and alternatives rooted out, by teaching, spreading and sharing the right sources.
I live in Canada where marijuana is now legal and over the past 5-10 years we've gone from it being frowned upon to it being nearly completely accepted, with head shops in nearly every plaza. Unfortunately, during this transition, we completely accepted the philosophy that marijuana is completely safe and non-addictive. I fell into that trap and developed a 3 year long addiction that had extreme negative consequences for my mental health and my life in general. Is it better for your health than alcohol? Probably. But not by much. But most people are completely unaware of the dangers of psychological addiction and the havoc marijuana wreaks on your sleep. Also, when quitting marijuana, you ABSOLUTELY go through withdrawals that have both physical and mental symptoms.
I agree. I am very pro marijuana and consider myself a “responsible stoner” We know it doesn’t work for everyone. It can have negative side effects, inhaling smoke in your lungs, regardless of what type of smoke it is, is still not good for you. Marijuana is a life saver for me, though.
To say it's "completely accepted" snd people believe it's "completely safe" is ridiculously far from the truth. It basically has the same stigma it always did.
Exactly. And I’m pro marijuana being legalized. I just don’t like how it went from being evil Satan drugs to now it’s perfect. It’s still something being ingested. Tylenol has side effects. Nothing is 💯 good. So kids are smoking it thinking it’s safe. There needed to be a more nuanced education about it in the education system. As a mom it’s super frustrating.
Ya but ginger ale now is bad. It’s sugar water. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s there was more ginger. Now it gives me a stomach ache. At least Canada Dry.
@OrdinaryEXP I don't really like cola drinks but damn that sounds delicious. I like ginger and lemon with green tea, just some low quality cheap green tea but it's delicious
Bet you thought you nailed it huh? No. It's simply called "alternative" because it's something other than the mainstream. Humanity is led down funny paths all the time, humans have an extensive record of doing things that don't make sense just because it's what everyone has always done. There are plenty of "alternatives" in any category that often work as good or better than mainstream methods
Reiki works, quantum touch works and energy medicine works, so open your mind. Good alternative medical techniques, like those I mentioned, will work without doing harm. Traditional medicine usually has side effects.
not necessarily. alternative medicine is proto medicine. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. sometimes it is safe, sometimes it has horrific side effects that could not be immediately noticeable. medicine is the gold standard. that doesn’t mean that traditional medicines didn’t work beforehand, we just didn’t know how effective/safe they were. quinine worked before it was ever studied.
I never found medication nor Marijuana to be helpful when it comes to depression and anxiety. Most of these mental health disorders are trauma related , stemming from childhood and our relationships with our caregivers and those closest to us. To heal anxiety and depression we’ve got to address our fears and those unresolved traumas. It’s not easy , but it’s worth it 💫 Never give up !
That’s because your depression wasn’t due to a chemical imbalance. Mine was both trauma related and a chemical imbalance, so I absolutely needed trauma therapy and medication to combat/overcome my depression. Without the correct meds, therapy (of any type) was mostly ineffective, but the right medications without proper therapy can only do so much when part of the problem is rooted in trauma. I know of people who were cured of their depression with only medications-because there was no underlying trauma. Their brain chemistry just needed slight tweaking. The cause (and treatments) of mental health disorders can be wide ranging and will be different for everyone.
@@MiraBoo Sadly here in the UK they don't seem to know or care whether drepression is from a chemical inbalance, they prescribe antidepressants like they're skittles. I got put on antidepressants to help me sleep, rather than figure out why I'm tired all the time they just want to pump people full of "happy pills."
@@who__cares__There is no evidence that clinical depression is the result of a chemical imbalance. It was a marketing strategy by Pfizer. Google it. The whole thing has been debunked for years. Does medication numb you, yes? Until your receptors become downregulated and you need to continue to updose. Then you develop a tolerance and your dr keeps switching you to another one and another one and another one. Then you stop and can have severe symptoms for years that are much worse than the original depression. They don’t do what you think they do. They actually create a chemical imbalance.
Thanks so much for this! We need a lot more discussion around heuristics, cognitive biases and logical fallacies. These concepts are baked into marketing 101. And are the reason why misinformation has such a strong foot hold on social media. I hadn’t heard of Dr. Stea before (but I’m also not on social media). Many thanks to him for calling out the snake oil sellers and misinformants. 🙌🙌
Unfortunately, in my culture, men are supposed to be strong, and we are not supposed to show emotion, so it took me a while to understand the concept of depression
@@NurseHODL today doctors are trained to treat symptoms not causes of illness and many of them are psychologically based, you will never hear a doctor say “ have you seen a psychologist about this? More than half the drugs we see on TV are due to stress anxiety self hate poor image sexual trauma the list goes on
I'm so glad you brought on a psychiatrist that specializes in economics, social bias, and media interactions. This stuff takes up way more space than it deserves to in my mind. To think something as controversial as others opinions could hold you back in life. I think a lot of it is tied to bullying. It's something a majority of the population doesn't have to face because they don't face the negative outcomes of it every day. I think everyone gets bullied at one point in their life. That's how social cliches are made. It's a weird social status bond some people choose to make, we even see this in political parties and in social workers that are supposed to help their community. Sooo what's going on here? I'd love to point this back onto myself and say I'm wrong. However, internalizing it only hurts more.
My cousin was convinced by a holistic doctor that they could cure his pulmonary fibrosis. He then got off of the lung transplant list. By the time he realized he was being taken, he was too weak to actually have a lung transplant if they could have gotten lungs for him. This is why I get very upset when people start bringing up holistic and alternative medicine.
I'm a registered acupuncturist in Canada, and I have to say that acupuncture isn't for everyone. It's normal to feel worse after a session before it gets better. It also depends on the acupuncturist's experience as well. Make sure to find the right acupuncturist!
I am a lifestyle medicine educator in Ningbo China. I am Australian. I really like acupuncture and have used it many times to treat symptoms. I use lifestyle medicine to correct what caused the problem in the first place. I wish these doctors would do something on lifestyle medicine because it is a legitimate branch of medicine but it is not well known.
I couldn't agree more. And as most acupuncturists recommend (me being one), it is loom at your whole life and situation. Acupuncture is not symptom based, it's a whole approach. We are supposed to address what needs to looked at.
Just want to say that I genuinely learn something new every time when I watch either your videos or podcast episodes. Your information feels endless, and you have a very lovely way of speaking.
The idea that there's no such thing as medically real mental illness sounds true to me because it's confirmation of my self-loathing, ashamed, and guilty feelings I'm already working in.
This was very enlightening and helpful. I can't even express how much. I heard the phrase correlation does not imply causation only MAYBE a year ago. It really made me stop and think. I think I have been taught basically the opposite my whole life in an intrinsic sort of way. Listening to you, Dr. Mike, has definitely helped to change my view on many things.
This is absolutely fascinating, I've been diving into this world of misinformation a ton over the last several months trying to understand the phenomenon of why so many people go for it. You both basically summarized everything I've been studying and more. This is a phenomenal episode!
""By definition", I begin "Alternative Medicine", I continue "Has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work Do you know what they call 'alternative medicine' that's been proved to work? Medicine." - Tim Minchin
Actually it’s allopathic medicine or modern conventional medicine proven by modern scientific and researched information. Remember that Ayurvedic medicines treated is an ancient health management as is Chinese medicine and homeopathic medicine. Modern or allopathic medicinal products are influenced greatly by large pharmaceutical companies. There are many modern medicines that originated from natural products used by the ancients or alternatives.
@@kerriecu2 Allow me to ummm actually back at you... LITERALLY nobody is saying that modern medicines are not "influenced" by ancient medical practices and remedies. However, thinking that those ancient practices are somehow superior to modern medicine simply because they are ancient and were practiced for millennia is a logical fallacy (appeal to tradition, probably also throw in appeal to nature). When science determines that a medical practice is efficacious it crosses over from the "alternative" to the allopathic (I had to look that up... it just means conventional).
Such an insightful and interesting video, thanks Doc Mike! As a 3rd yr psychology student, aspiring to be a clinical psychologist, I really learned a lot through your discussion. I also confirmed some of my ideas about mental health in the present times or just in general. Timely with our assignment about code of ethics and our prof teaching us that we are to guide and help clients to find answers to their questions or solutions to their problems themselves- aside from evidence-based medicine/treatments- I agree with Dr. Jonathan on not offering alternative medicine myself to the patients. I’ll let them decide or bring up the idea of turning to those treatments. But I’ll be a responsible clinician and I will explain to them the pros and the cons. About your acupuncture experience or alternative medicine in general… I think it’s a gamble. A lot of factors, some the both of you mentioned in your discussion, can make it effective or not. With your experience, perhaps it depended on how well trained the person who did acupuncture on you LOL. Lastly, I’m ashamed to assume that the stigma on mental health awareness or anti-psychiatry is lessened after the pandemic- or at least in my country 🇵🇭, if not, at my community perhaps. But I do see the lack of clinicians or licensed practitioners that can offer help to people struggling with their mental health, especially here in PH. So it’s hard to seek for help here (I would say its not really really easily accessible), in addition with the ‘resilient’ filipino mindset we have. And the lack of funding for research of more evidence-based treatments or lack of budget to support mental health services, makes me sad. I hope our generation can bring change to the health care industry, with the help of pioneers like the both of you- not on some tiktok videos, twitter or facebooks posts, etc.
I'm glad he brought up the fact that the medical field pushes people to turn to alternative medicine. People have to wait forever to be seen, can't be seen at all, can't afford it, or are brushed off conpletely by doctors/specialists. Women especially are not taken seriously. It took two years, and practically dying to finally find out my endocrine system had conpletely shut down. My syptoms were brushed off as "these things happen", or I was overreacting. It doesn't help that doctors simply are not given enough time to properly diagnose and treat patients. Two to five minutes is not enough time to really address anything. The price of prescriptions also causes people to look for alternatives. One of my medications is over $100 for a one month supply. I can get the same amount in a natural formula over the counter for less than $40. I think it would be benifical if natural medicine, and mainsream medicine worked together as a cohesive unit.
I don’t know man. I don’t smoke anymore but I used to smoke a few times a week and i would just sit with my thoughts and feelings, i would ask myself deep questions and i would journal. It helped me get into a deeper headspace to be able to reflect like that. I feel that time of my life was very transformative. I think with a substance like cannabis and psychedelics it really depends HOW you use it.
How weird is it that I was looking on your channel for a video such as this last night. Ended up watching the Ayurvedic debate because the idea was there and then bam. You uploaded this.
Life coaching is not therapy and nor should it be presented or introduced as such. It is a major breach of the ethics of the profession itself. No coach should work with a person who in reality needs therapy and who they suspect is using the coaching as a replacement for therapy. It is a cardinal error.
I see you decided to go with the Better Help endorsement program. I appreciate you screening and checking in with other specialists before signing on with these companies. I do worry about the stressful conditions psych practitioners are going through seeing so many patients and if this online system helps.
Acupuncture has helped me with lower back pain and one time when I sprained my ankle. From what I understood from what the Traditional Chinese psychisian explained to me, the acupuncture uses simulation of specific nerve clusters to get your muscles to relax and release the muscle knots that are causing pain.
I think that acupuncture is suitable for some types of muscular issues, but it's certainly not a fix-all therapy. Probably if deep tissue massage is too painful or could worsen the injury, then acupuncture could possibly help.
I’ve suffered from severe depression majority of my life, I’ve had past attempts, sh etc and I’ve never been spiritual, I’ve always been an atheist and very “science” based but then I started trying more alternative approaches and honestly it has helped. I’m not sure if it’s a placebo effect because I’ve put meaning and some sort of concept to what I do but it has helped me feel better so I guess it really depends on the person. Although I will say I still think that some alternative medicine is “bad” and some of these influencers who promote certain things are lying and just trying to get fame or money.
Acupuncture is one of the least controversial therapies in terms of evidence based healthcare. Once you study every pressure point in the body listed under acupuncture studies, you realize that every single one has an anatomical significance and most points can be directly associated with the condition being treated
Interesting topic and it’s well-deserved. I just didn’t find the guest to be well informed in a lot of areas. It seemed that several times you were able to explain his reasoning better than he did. This took away a lot for me from the interview. I’m sure you can find others. You should look into bringing on Dr. Nassir Ghaemi, he is very well-versed and research, diagnosis, and psychiatrics
People usually turn to snake oil after the $$$ medical community tries a couple of different drugs on them and gives up. Almost everyone I know has been gaslit by doctors/specialists and has found partial relief in a supplement or alternative practice.
Honestly there is nothing wrong with alternative practices or supplements as a complement to medicine. You’re right that wellness involves a lot more than throwing medications at an issue, especially for things like mental health and chronic pain. The issue is that there are a LOT of scammers and predators in alternative medicine. It’s important to give people information on which alternative practices are likely to be beneficial at best and or harmless at worst, which are likely harmful, and which are outright scams.
Especially us women. Or if you’re a POC. I feel heard by my doctor. Thank goodness. But my neurologist doesn’t listen. If he was my primary care doctor I could see myself being desperate and turning away from western medicine.
I do know that happens and I would urge those people to not give up on finding a better physician for them. I'm someone who has experienced this as a rare disease and rare condition person, but I didn't give up and I've found my medical team that are incredible and listen to me. Not everyone has the luxury in every situation unfortunately but they're there if you done give up and are able to utilize health insurance or funds available or other resources.
Thankyou for all you do, what you’re doing is incredible. Your stories and commentary can impact people’s lives and some people just don’t realize. You are a great doctor and keep up what you are doing.
I think one of the BEST ways that doctors can fight fringe treatments is to just listen to their patients. If a patient comes in with some pseudoscience treatment they found, I think as their primary, listen to the claims and obviously explain why its not evidence based, BUT encourage them to seek, YOU, the DOCTORS, Guidance through the pseudoscience. Like if the patient wants to do this simply say "I CANNOT recommend this as a form of treatment, HOWEVER I can offer my guidance with evidence based medicine if you see adverse effects or beneficial affects." Be on their side and treat it almost like a supervised consumption service. If they are going to do the drug or pseudoscience treatment at least make it as safe as possible for them. Let them have a fall back, understand what is going into their body and how to counteract it if need be, Because as soon as you close the door on their pseudoscience you might also close the door on their trust.
I think there's a lot of value to be found here, however I also think there's holes in the argument. - 29:30 he says that they are trained to do this, but others "clumsily" stumble upon it. Board certified Naturopathic Doctors are absolutely trained for this too, it's not an accident of their philosophy, it's something they are aware of and intentional about. - There's no recognition that while yes, some people in the alternative health world absolutely fall into pseudoscience practices, again board certified ND's are educated in pharmaceuticals, nutrition, etc. Fields that I would assume he doesn't see as pseudoscience. - Many in the field of "alternative medicine" hold evidence based medicine in high regard. He acts like they are two entirely separate things. (yes, there are people who go down that road, but I think it's naive to label ALL of alternative medicine as separate from evidence based) - Again, I absolutely agree with many topics discussed, I just think there's some important factors that were disregarded.
Completely agree, just as board certified Chiropractic Doctors (DC) are also fully trained. Of course, like in every single profession (like Dr Gundry who’s and MD) there are some who are not evidence based and boast about ridiculous claims, there are many who are very evidence based and ethical, and even work interprofesional with other healthcare providers.
It’s important to note that acupuncture is notoriously difficult to study. Hard to do a double-blind study when the doctor (and maybe even the patient) knows they are receiving a sham needle. But we do know that complications are low when practiced safely, so I think doctors should be more open to it for conditions that are not well understood and resist better-studied treatment (or if patients don’t want to use high risk medicine like opioids).
I had acupuncture for my myofascial trigger points in my neck. There were hard as rocks and no massages or heat pads could help. You immidiately noticed a change when the needle triggered a nearby muscle. Like a electric impulse. Next day I had sour muscles. Day after my shoulder and neck felt like butter. That and my special pillow are the only things that bring relief. It became so horrible, that I consider to surgically remove the trigger points because the blood circulation is blocked to my hand and head sometimes. So no, certainly no placebo effect. With muscles it helps. But it no miracle wonder medicine against everything. There was a study/experiment who found out that acupuncture points are thinner then the rest of the skin. The needle works like a electric pulse relaxing the muscle from intense tensioning. Even if it is not 100% clear how, it helps and if it not helps, it doesn't damage anything.
Please make a video on ADHD. It’s something I really struggle with and very few people actually understand how it works and how it affects people like me.
Another great video - thank you! Could you do one on women’s health? What we know, don’t know, any evolution within the space over the last 25 years, how and why doctors approach certain women’s health topics certain ways, etc.?
Just throwing this here: we know what acupuncture works on now, it works on the fascia. Western medicine used to think that fascia was just passive packaging so it got thrown out, that's why it couldn't find the basis for acupuncture. Now that people are realizing that fascia is extremely important, it's being studied more. It just happens that acupuncture meridians run along the fascia lines. Acupuncture is not the only thing that works, yoga works the fascia too, I got rid of my remaining back pain through yoga (and shockingly enough my period pain disappeared too, they used to keep me up at night because of how painful they were). New techniques are also being discovered. If you have frozen shoulders, injecting water to soften up the fascia works. You can check the video Fascia: Cause of Chronic Pain - Medical Frontiers. I've done massage for my mom since I was a kid. She's Chinese and she taught me. I didn't know what the theoretical basis was, I just work on the tough spots until they're soft. Once I googled it and the result was "we don't know what muscle knots are." Well now it turns out it's the fascia.
Yeah. I go to a naprapat that also does acupuncture. Massage helps me relax. It's a stress relief, which helps because I suffer from headaches caused by stress. I combine it with medication, however. I go to the naprapat to reduce the stress and thereby the frequency of which I get the headache. But when I get the headache (which is a type of migraine), I take medication and go to sleep. Otherwise, I puke. I don't believe in all alternative medicine, but I understand why people are willing to test it.
You're the doctor, but I think I have a slight correction. I have spent a lot of time in physical therapy after surgeries. There is a difference in acupuncture and dry needling. Acupuncture, if I understand it correctly, is sticking needles in certain locations based on body energy points or something similar. Dry needling is finding locations where the muscles are very tight and inserting the needle in very specific spots to relieve the tension in that knotted muscle. Acupuncture would not locate the knots, rather place them in predetermined locations. By my understanding, sticking the needles in the knots, forces the muscles to spasm and relax. At least that is my understanding.
Dr. Johnathan Stea says that he doesn't want to belittle and bash, but he comes through exactly like this. If i were his patient with a cultural background that believes in reincarnation, and hear him speak like that, i would feel extremely judged and vulnerable and I would never ever come back for another session with him.
He is on a podcast and he doesn't do that therapy, so if you were seeking that type of treatment, you surely wouldn't go to him, because he doesn't do that therapy... And if you'd mention it to him, he wouldn't bash you for it. His personal opinion on faith shouldn't be an issue to you, because you're at a doctor's office, not a faith healer. Also, most evidence based doctors don't practice their medicine based on your personal Gods and traditions. They practiced FACT based medicine, which is the exact opposite of faith. Faith is the absence of evidence. You believe it even though you don't have evidence. So idk why you're surprised that a doctor doesn't believe in reincarnation.
Also, even if reincarnation does exist, those "doctors" aren't tapping into some past life of yours. They're making up what trauma you had in your past life, giving you a reason for why you have a certain problem, knowing that you'll believe it aka exploiting your beliefs for money. It might help you as a placebo, but you most likely have trauma in your CURRENT life, which won't get fixed or uncovered by making up a story to make you feel better in the short run. It's horrible and ridiculous. Exploiting the vulnerable 101.
@@anitaposa9164 my point is not from the perspective of someone who would be actively seeking a past life regression therapy. But from a perspective of someone who ie. Could be of an Indian background or any other culture that believes in reincarnation. And his attitude towards that belief definitely comes through as belittling. I'm just pointing out his hard cultural bias and prejudice that he's not even aware of having, nothing else. And one very important point I tried to make but that it went entirely past you: doctors should practise evidence based medicine, yes. Without any doubt. But they should also pay respect to different religions and beliefs of their patients if they want their patients to build trust - a key factor when considering mental health therapists. This doctor who is extensively practicing is on a public podcast sounding very judgmental towards eastern beliefs and with very little consideration of his real life patients having access to this.
@@PashaHajmanHi I'm a psychologist from India and I agree with this doctor. The way he described it is exactly how me and my colleagues who are RCI licensed would go about doing so too. Your religious beliefs are always welcome, but we will not agree to give intervention based on your beliefs if they are unethical according to our science and the guidelines of our licensed bodie. We would advise you the cons of such treatments and then wish you the best because at the end of the day all we want is for you to be healthy mentally and in whichever way you want to reach that space is totally up to you, Dr.Jonathan Stea even talks about patient autonomy and that's what we respect too. Although I do have to mention that in india there are a lot of grifters more than actual licensed psychologists, so maybe they might take advantage of such beliefs, but any licensed professional would follow strict guidelines and ethics in their practice.
As a skeptic who believes strongly in science, I think in the coming years we're going to watch acupuncture be fine-tuned into proper evidence-based medicine. I think we've starting using it too early in the process, but you can't ignore the fact that is DOES work.....in certain circumstances. It also can definitely hurt, as you experienced. Specifically in controlling pain. I don't think it'll be applicable in much else, if anything else. It's just going to take a few years, a few really good studies to nail down the proper way to use it to avoid harm, and to optimize pain control.
I can't stand alternative medicine pushers. If I post anything on social media about my mental health or my disability I get suggestions like "oh have you tried yoga or this random essential oil?". If any of it worked do you really think I'd be on the amount of meds a take? Or in bed because I'm in too much pain to move?
@@suzanneemerson2625Sir, I assume your cognitive functions fall on the lower end of the population, so please take a moment to think about what you said. Teach yourself critical thinking to make up for your lack of intelligent thought, and truly dig into why you are able to believe such an obviously idiotic statement.
I belive there are often simple solutions that are not neccisarily western medicine or "big pharma". This should NOT result in rejecting medical treatment. I had a great Osteopathic pediatrician for my oldest son. He would suggest a couple 'home remedies" and say if you see these signs or he doesn't improve, get this prescription filled. It made me trust him so much more because he was really thoughtful about my child and empowered me as a mom to care for my baby.
I really love this series of important conversations with medical professionals! I would love to hear more about the rehabilitation side of medicine. I wonder if there is a new episode in the works from someone like an occupational therapist or physical therapist? Thank you for making engaging thought-provoking content!
Doctor Mike and Doctor Stea, what you are talking about giving patients more time can be covered by lifestyle medicine’s recommendations on ‘shared medical appointments’ whereby patients with similar conditions can have a group session with a GP whereby they can learn how to manage their diseases, possibly even reverse it with changes to their lifestyle. Doctor Gary Egger has written many papers on that. He is an academic in Australia. There are many more physicians studying lifestyle medicine which is a legitimate branch of medicine and my speciality (ex nurse).
Honestly, I just keep this stuff in the background while i do homework or while im chillin'. Thanks for the Checkup Dr. Mike! Keep this going, know what you are doing is right.
I think a lot of the problem is that so many of us are sick of being let down by medicine too. It’s the only profession that they can get things wrong over and over or not do anything for you and still get paid, a lot. Many of us are seeking help and don’t find it. I don’t find medicine any more reliable than the alternatives I have tried.
I don't know how pseudoscientific Ayurveda is in the USA that Dr Mike is so against it, but in India, Ayurveda, Unani and Siddha are three traditional Indian schools of Medicine that are actually regulated by the Indian government. As a lifelong user of Ayurveda, I have found it to be very effective and reliable.
I think I should clarify that there are stupid stuff happening here too like when the CEO of Patanjali, the largest brand of Ayurveda medicines in India, claimed they found medicines to treat Corona even before the vaccine was out. The medical association called out his misinformation, but the damage was already done. Patanjali earned crores of money, as the fact-checking doesn't spread as fast as the misinformation. It definitely is not a flawless field.
I have an extreme heat sensitivity. I started therapy a couple weeks ago. I have generalized anxiety and PTSD. I've also started telling my story. I have one video here so far.
5:12 Doctor Mike's examples of heuristics weren't great, but the understanding between these two was on point. Heuristics are more akin to stereotypes - which as they suggest can be exploited because they aren't the truth but tend to be operationally close enough.
I've basically been forced to look into alternative medcine, cause my countries mental health care is so awful, I've seen many therapists and none helped, I've tried many antidepressants and they don't work, even though antidepressants haven't helped me, they still try to push me onto them, it's like their paided by the conpainies to seel thier pills. If modern medicine can fall apart after just two things didn't work, it shouldn't be surprising for my docs when I start looked at whatever else I can do that might help me.
If evidence based medicine doctors didn't gaslight people with serious conditions such as long covid as having "health anxiety", just because there isn't enough research in this field, trust would be much higher.
@@alcidedragonboth can be true sometimes an itch is just an itch and sometimes it's cancer but having your doctor listen to your concerns seriously and do their best to clarify, or help assuage your concerns would be the best of both worlds
@@Spacemarine658 Yes, but the problem is that a lot of people think that they're theory is true when science prove them basically wrong by stating that something does not exist, and people wont listen to anything else.
@@alcidedragon are you insinuating that long covid doesn’t exist? Because research very clearly says otherwise. But that doesn’t mean that doctors are aware of the research. Doctors are trained in universities using the knowledge of 50 years ago.
@@helgaotto7801 That is precisly wrong. Doctor are trained with the most récent research and learn how to stay updated on the subject. Your precisly the problem here has thinking that you know what you have and if doctor does not agree they are wrong
I agree that alternative medicine is often bull puckies. This however dismisses the reality that pharmaceutical companies create drugs of questionable efficacy, and control the information anyone sees of the research. I also question psych med evaluations that talk about brain chemistry, but practically are little better than behavioral questionnaires.
I wish Dr. Stea would give more credit to patients who do choose to go to alternative medicine practitioners and engage in "alternative" treatment modalities. There are good alternative medicine doctors who are exceptional diagnosticians and have wonderful engagement with their patients; are able to be attentive, curious, engaged and provide education/encourage change. Its bold to assume that cognitive bias is the main reason for making this choice and that the "analytical thinking" isnt exactly what caused people to make this decision in regards to something as important as their health, ESPECIALLY when managing chronic conditions and having had little to no luck with "traditional western medicine". MDs and DOs are overworked to the point where the time they spend with patients just isn't enough to warrant good outcomes in a lot of cases and things get missed and ignored commonly. Prime examples being diagnosis times for various womens health conditions. What Dr. Stea calls "clumsily stumbling upon" good outcomes within alternative medicine is NOT accidental the way he makes it seem in my opinion. The ability to cultivate a therapeutic alliance and educate your patients + inspire change is WILDLY underrated within this discussion and its not an accidental effect of "functional medicine" practitioners, it is very much intended. It might not be "special" as Dr. Stea put it, but it is GOOD and the places that have begun to regulate the fields of naturopathic medicine, chiropractic, etc. and make space for alternative medicine modalities did so intentionally to allow for the healthcare system to make use of these "good" aspects while minimizing peoples abilities for just anybody to call themselves a practitioner. It isn't a way to "sneak in" alternative medicine rhetoric into the healthcare system, it is the opposite; an attempt to erase the non-evidence scammers that have no license or credentials and pedal essential oils as a cure-all.
Wanted to chime in on acupuncture. I didn't believe in it either, but there are some theories that it stimulates the fascia in some ways and that it could kick-start some healing mechanisms in the body that we don't quite understand yet. It seems like we have misunderstood the fascia for quite some time, and I hope there will be more proper research on it soon.
there's a frustrating false equivalence between good data and misinformation when people say the way the cure to bad information is to provide good information. Misinformation looks nothing like good quality data. Misinformation is couched in emotionally evocative language designed to prime the audience before any assertion is made. Because misinformation is bullshit, its purveyors have to focus on persuasion. Good data is often couched in caveats and explanations of its own limits, which is a sign to a trained professional that its probably good data, but comes off to a lay person as uncertain and therefore bad. Misinformation isn't merely data that happens to be wrong, its a work of manipulation.
I want to say THANK YOU for making this video I just cried yesterday about how people don’t take mental health seriously it makes me feel neglected
I'm so sorry. As someone who has seen a mother with bipolar disorder and depression go through this from a young age, I've seen the harms it can cause. Wishing you the best 😊
I have chronic anxiety. An depression. I understand social media damaging to target people. Just for views or whatever. Don't feel alone. Media like that bully everyone likes in school. Do your best head up. Your pawsome.
It isn’t just a lack of time with an MD and DO that pushes people towards alternative medicine.
So many doctors don’t listen regardless of the time spent with the patient. My doctors wrote off my diverticulitis as being in my head. I spent months basically starving because of it. I went in dozens of times to dozens of doctors and got told things like “try talking to someone”, “find a hobby to distract yourself”, “go on a walk”…
In fact I got dumped off on alternative medicine. My gastroenterologist, pcp, and urgent care doctors told me to go to acupuncture. Acupuncture doesn’t help with diverticulitis. It was five months before they actually found and diagnosed the diverticulitis.
My bowel ended up perforating and I almost died. I am broken after what they did to me.
Doctors need to own that a huge reason patients go to alternative medicine is because the patient is suffering and instead of being helped they get gaslit
Sorry this happened to you. 😢 that's terrible!!
I feel blessed that I have a PCP that actually listens and doesn't rush appointments nor judges me. During my last visit, I told her how thankful I am having her as my family physician.
That situation sucks! I'm not even in the US and this "malpractice" if we could call it that it seems to be a PANDEMIC amongst practicioners around the world. Idk what the hell it is but they have gotten lazier, dismissive and in some cases, it does feel they have become more stupid.
I completely get what you're saying. I've been having pain in my muscles and joints for the past couple of years that are geting worse and doctors haven't figured out what's wrong with me. I get the impression they think I'm a hypochondriac. As much as I believe in science and medicine I haven't had much luck in terms of finding a doctor that actually cares.
I've recently been considering acupuncture, because I know it's supposed to work on the fascia and my symptoms do seem like they could be caused by that. I'm still hesitant, because quite frankly it seems ridiculous, but I'm getting desperate enough to try it.
@@chrys9256I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with that. It’s not pleasant for anyone, especially when you’re already not feeling well. I can only offer my own anecdotal experience, but I found acupuncture quite helpful surprisingly - my expectations were low but I was surprised to find a reduction in my head and neck pain (what I got it for mostly). But everyone is different. I always try relax if possible before new treatments too, sets my body up for success and I don’t get as disappointed if it doesn’t work too well.
At the end of the day, even if it’s a placebo effect I really don’t care. I’ll leave the bizarre burocracy and competition to the drs.🙃All I care about is whether it helps or not.
Also something to note - when I was in vet school before my condition really kicked off, I worked under a vet who specialises in holistic medicine alongside standard medicine. We would work closely with patients of various illnesses/injuries and a lot of them truly seemed to benefit from acupuncture, specifically electroaccucunture. I’ve genuinely seen more than one dog and cat regain a lot of mobility (not fully but pretty darn close!) and have significant pain reduction after being partially paralysed/hit by cars etc. and there’s not really a placebo effect with animals. Of course there’s other factors but the research in animal medicine is actually quite strong and not to be written off. I’m someone of the mindset that we don’t know what we don’t know, and I’m not gonna write something off that could potentially help people just because it’s yet to be fully understood. If it’s proven definitively to not work, then fair enough, but until then, why close ourselves off to possible ideas, especially when it’s people’s lives and quality of life at stake. Just seems odd to me for drs to always wanna do.🤔
I hope you get some relief soon. Same for everyone else too.💜
@@chrys9256Acupuncture could probably help you, i would try it before you get worse
I'm trained in Therapeutic Massage Therapy and Therapeutic Reflexology. The biggest difference between my training and the treatments you get at spas is that we also learn about pharmacological drug interactions in relation to what we do and how medications interact with one another, we touch on pathology and how what we do can influence certain conditions and it is HEAVILY emphasized that we never, ever go against a medical professional's treatment, never dismiss or adjust the treatment plan and always, always refer back to the healthcare team for feedback and assistance.
He also claimed to cure dyslexia and autism as well! And another one claimed to cure medicine free adhd. That’s when it goes to far for me !
@TheMimmieb agreed, that's just bogus. Physical ailments can respond very well to touch therapies, heck even depression because it treats the touch-starvation, but it is not a cure by any means.
Therapist here, i love to listen while I run! Thanks for so many videos on mental health
Thanks for what you do ! 🫡 💞
Please Doctor Mike do a podcast with a forensic pathologist. I want to learn more for this specialty but unfortunately its on of the least famous specialities out there and therefore there is not a lot of information from real professionals working on this field. Thank you very much for all the useful information that you have gave us all these years.
I also feel that it is an underrated profession Dr g medical examiner was the one that got me hooked
There are a number of books out there on the subject if you can get them through your public library system. I would recommend some of the accounts of Dr. Henry Lee and Dollhouse Mysteries. Even though it only touches on forensics Stiff by Mary Roach, it has a chapter on the Kentucky Body Farm and the forensics work they do there.
Dr G medical examiner full episodes are on TH-cam and they are freaking amazing!
U can watch Partners for Justice season2 , it is about forensics
Lol you know why people go into pathology? They love medicine and hate talking 😂 seriously it was my original pathway of choice and I spent most of my teen years in path labs - a place of utter silence - blissful for me but getting one to talk ... Not so easy 😂
Hi Doctor Mike, I’ve been watching your videos for a while (years), and really admire your integrity, kindness, personality and ofc the fact that you’re a doctor. Recently, in my country India there has been a (r)ape and (m)urder case of a resident female doctor ON SITE in Kolkata. It is being speculated that a LOT of POWERFUL people are involved INCLUDING the STATE Govt. itself! We really need the world to come together to advocate for healthcare staff safety, safety of all women and for people to be held accountable for their heinous crimes.
PLEASE PLEASE even a small TH-cam short and an Instagram story from you regarding this case would mean the world for us women in India and for all doctors, nurses and healthcare staff around the world. It would also push more awareness and can help the criminals being held accountable.
How do you know he’s actually all those things you call him? He may have an ex who thinks he’s an a-h or he may have cheated his way through his exams. How do you know if that’s true or not?
@@dickschwanzstein1789he’s like double board certified, is a national figure who advocates for all the right things, and there is no evidence to prove otherwise. It’s like, how do you know your dad isn’t a child pornographer? How do you know Betty White isn’t a rapist?
@petmashup2672 You know, im just seeing a lot of comments below videos where people are praising the guy or gal running the channel just a little bit too much
NEVER stop these videos. Also please do more debates they’re my favorite. The one on Ayurveda was so good
Dear Dr. Mike
I wish there were more doctors like you that actually take the time to see and treat the patient as a whole. I cant seem to find a doctor who doesn’t blatantly dismiss my concerns stating “you’re just stressed” or “you’re young so you’ll be fine”. My ATF is what I’m going through is “normal” because I’m a woman.
In a perfect world all doctors would be inquisitive, open to new ideas, deliver quality patient education and be willing to have a conversation. Thank you for spreading your knowledge and for inspiring other doctors to DO BETTER.
Currently accepting recommendations for a D.O in the San Antonio or Austin area. 😅
Dr mike, these in-depth conversations with experts are so incredibly valuable. I know there are a lot of work for you and don't get as many views as your shorter videos, but please continue with this profoundly thoughtful and useful content
Anyone that says depression isn't real has never experienced depression, not severe depression anyway and until you have been there you can't possible know what it's like. Even psychologist that are treating it can't know the struggle no matter how hard they try if they haven't experienced the disease.
Seriously. I’m in my 40s and now right before my period I get depressed. Like clinical type. It’s just a deep dark feeling. And no “reason”. I really realized when one time everything was going right in my life and I still had the feeling. It’s chemical.
Luckily I have enough life experience to know that (for me at least) it’s cyclical and will be over in a few days so I just ride the wave. But it really sucks.
I have major depression and complex PTSD, both of which are successfully treated with medications. I had to wade through an obscene amount of quackery to get here, which fills me with so much anger.
@@Mama_Bear524 Yep it can be very tough to just get out of bed. I just feel unless you go through it you can't related. It's not as easy as pulling yourself up by your boot straps as so many say to do.
@@Mama_Bear524you don’t have clinical depression one day and it’s gone the next
@@dylanbly3468Yes you can, it’s called premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD), and it means one can have severe symptoms of depression, anxiety, irritability, mood swings etc. 1-2 weeks before their period, after which it subsides and starts again in the next cycle. It can be debilitating, you can even become suic🆔al. I don’t appreciate you questioning people’s experiences of depression out of your 🫏.
I like what this guy had to say. I also want to suggest that you get Dr. K on for another episode! He has a lot more to say on gaming addiction and our modern mental health crisis.
Me too. I like how he addresses in a non judgmental and understanding way the reasons people turn to alternative methods.
I don't really liked how they took Dr. K topic, it was too superficial that they made him seem bad, which his not, he uses modern medicine with the support of ayurveda not the other way. It's like in the news when they short a topic so hard that it gives whole other idea,
To me it seems like dr. Mike has a bone to pick with dr. K@@jorgeed.1117
@@jorgeed.1117 Agree, he's not using people's facial features to diagnose people... he also doesn't diagnose on youtube.
I agree, I think the description that Dr. Mike gave to Dr. Stea about Dr. K was a little inaccurate, especially with the facial feature part. I trust Dr. K because of his use of evidence, and I view the Ayurvedic medicine as an interesting cultural/history lesson.
These two men, have proven that you can be mindful, knowledgeable, humble, and respectful while you speak facts and fight misinformation.
I’ve heard someone put it like this. “Modern medicine is taking all the good stuff and getting rid of the bad stuff. And putting it in a dosage that’s not completely random”
EXACTLY
Yes that is true for example opioids are a natural occurring thing in plants like poppies but they are a controlled substance that can be given to people with chronic pain in a small dosage if people were just self medicate they can poison themselves, never claimed nature was safe their does need to be control but there is expenses and pharmaceutical company extortion and other safer alternatives that are still waiting on scientific approval.
I agree nature can be dangerous and consist of controlled substances that in accurate doeses can help people and you need someone trained to do that but their is pharmaceutical extortion things sold that people cant afford and they can be left with little options, things will change things will advance an improve and scientists will prove more things that right now seem like a falacy and then they disprove the nonsense. Things that are done in medicine today will change like it has done from the past. But nature started it the Greeks used herbal remedies that worked unfortunately they didn't get everything right cos of lack of knowledge but today their is still things to be learnt. An those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it
Finally someone understands. If an alternative medicine really works, science will isolate the main component, learn how to reliably produce it, and assign proper dosages for people.
I love that the conversation wasn’t so much about which method of treatment is right or wrong, but which is ethically correct. Appreciate the respectful conversation!
"Alternative medicine by definition has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work.
Do you know what we call alternative medicine that's been proven to work?
Medicine."
-Tim Minchin
"We, the capitalists do everything we can to extort you to the last cent, trust us." The American companies
@@PROVOCATEURSKboth the conventional and alternative medicine industries are run by capitalists who make billions.
@@PROVOCATEURSK - Pharmacies
@@PROVOCATEURSK While the critique has some merits don´t you think competition from these alternative treatments would just out compete big pharma if they would actually work? People are willing to pay a lot for their health and if a treatment does work well it would naturally spread around the globe and make the person who owns the intellectual property very rich.
@@PROVOCATEURSKthe most prescribed drug in America costs less than $7 for a 3 month supply.
If prescribers are all about profits first that wouldn’t be the case.
I appreciate the focus on evidence based practice that you bring to social media. We need more doctors and clinicians that help the public see the misinformation in the health sectors - I’m a board certified behavior analyst and board certified music therapist and have struggled when those providing evidence based practices also pair themselves with pseudoscience.
If water has memory, does it mean that water can also have Alzheimer's? I swear that the water at home remembers nothing.
When I ask my water where I put my keys it never answers, so mine seems to have Alzheimer's too.
We have Alzheimer’s at home son
Water has a memory only to a point where you remind thise people that it has beep in poop and pee and puke and snake venom glands at some point too 😂
@@sillyjellyfish2421 Yeah, who wants to think about how many kidneys and intestines water has passed through on its way to whatever organ of excretion that animal has. 😅
@@sillyjellyfish2421 I swear the water totally has memory of the taste of poop/pee/puke etc. Otherwise why would homeopathy cure my constipation, diarrhoea, urine problem and food poisoning? /s
Dear Dr. Mike,
Dear Checkup Podcast Team, and Dr. Jonathan Stea,
Thanks a lot for this wonderful episode. I enjoyed every second. Especially the discussion how social media is fueling the missinformation. Me as a small science communicator, I feel your support and gives me the strength to continue. As you said we need more good science communicators out there talking about the nuances in scientific literature. In addition make it accessible for the people. I want to thank both of you for your incredible work! I wish you all the best and keep on the great work! Many greetings from a scientist.
Definitely agree that desperation is a big driving factor to the prevalence of “alternative” medicine. Usually because people either:
A) have been failed by scientifically proven medicine
Or
B) don’t have access to it.
Unfortunately, alternative medicine methods via social media are much more accessible than scientifically proven medicine. Hope we can change that in the future.
I think the thing to realize about why people go to alternative medicine is because of bad experiences with evidence based medicine. Most people I know have not been taken seriously by doctors, some even having been sent home with a life-threatening illness that almost paralyzed them. Alternative medicine has anecdotes, misinformation, and coincidences to offer, but they listen and take seriously anything the patients say. There is a reason that people go to these things
Absolutely this is a reason, but people also don't realize that just because something is labeled as natural doesn't mean it's not harmful, so when they harmful outcomes from traditional medicine, they're not realizing it's still a risk in "alternative medicine". One is just typically more ethical. We definitely need more physicians who listen to patients. I've acquired some amazing docs who listen to me and take me seriously, but it has taken some work.
I have some skepticism of evidence based medicine, where studies take the broadest groups and test medication on them, not adequately making up for human diversity. Doctors are supposed to do that, and while there are great doctors, they aren't quite equipped to hone in on the individual. Study design, classification(what counts as X?) and corruption, play a big role too. This does not mean inventing woo, but there is space for a cautious grey area. The human body and mind are complicated, we should be humble about that.
I am a lifestyle medicine educator. One of the things i find fascinating is that the healthy behaviors that help heal one disease also have positive effect on other diseases. I have helped people who wanted to treat their hypertension and found that increasing exercise, learning to manage their stress and changing their diet caused their overall mood to improve.
That is one of the reasons people look beyond traditional medicine: lifestyle matters and people need help implementing lifestyle changes like exercise or eating more vegetables and fruit.
@@k.h.6991 I totally agree with you. My only thought is that we need to train medical staff in LM because for the majority of people, the medical authorities are their first point of contact when there is a health issue.
I hope we can move forward with this in our care for people - it is just commonsense but so far, it is NOT common.
This was very enlightening. I was going to wait until I had finished his book before I watched this, but this interview has given me a glimpse into Dr. Stea's philosophy -- now I know how to approach the book. (I will, most likely, rewatch this interview after I have finished the book.) Dr. Mike, as always, is such a fine interviewer. His casual approach to difficult subjects is admirable. He puts (most) of his interviewees in a safe place to share real thoughts and information. Great job! (Dr. Mike always does a great job with these interviews, but this one was especially good -- dealing with some very sensitive subjects.)
Alternative medicine is like not studying for a test. Sometimes it works out, but most of the time it doesn’t
It's worth a try because that's all the patient can afford.
@@danc2578 Which says a lot about the healthcare system.
@@Smokie_666well luckily, i live in middle Europe
I feel called out 😂
@@you_like_bread_I_like_bread me too. But don't be smart ass. Most of the doctors I know are nice people but stupid.
Even if he doesnt see this, I just wanted to say thank you and huge ups for Dr.Stea and what him and his team do. Im sure they don't hear it as often as they should. Go Dr.Mike and team for spreading light on a good doctor again and good subjects. ❤❤
Just starting to watch the video now but have to say., YAAAAY a Canadian! 🍁 Love to see other fellow Canadians on big platforms as it doesn't happen that often I find.
We rock (most of us 😂) go Canada 🇨🇦!
Loved this episode. Such an important discussion. I so wish everyone would listen to this. Alternative “medicine” is not victimless, and the victims are usually desperate and vulnerable. It upsets me to no end seeing so many people exploited by these grifters.
Doctor Mike, as a new acupuncturist I'd love to see you do a talk with someone trained in Eastern Medicine Acupuncture and Herbs. I can't speak for every acu program but western biomedical component of the school I graduated from was hefty, then you add the eastern on top of it. We are trained to see red flags and refer out to MD/DOs often. We know we can't treat everything and that there are things MD/DO can treat quicker and easier than us. Have been a long time watcher, and appreciate your conversations around these topics. I truly think you would be surprised how much Acupuncture and Western Medicine have in common.
Great and straightforward analysis from Dr. Jonathan Stea! It's true that 'alternative medicine' often relies on unsupported claims and marketing tricks. It's essential for us to focus on evidence-based medicine, where science, clinical judgment, and patient values are prioritized. Thanks for shedding light on this topic!
Love this episode. The fact that we are thinking in heuristiks, supported also by reels etc. is also a developement I observed over the years. People are less likely to get proper Information.
ive been watching you dr mike for a very long time and because of you i want to be a doctor now because i want to learn about the human body and the immune system and diseases and more that means youve encouraged me to be a doctor and im gonna try to get amedical degree and help people in need of medical assistance.
How is Health and Beauty Mastery book still under the radar? People are missing out big time!
They are censoring real books
It's a great book actually i read it
I love that book
@@meditim2032 scam alert!
Thank you so much!! Here in Europe as well we have so much misinformation and alternative things to be aware of. I am greatly worried for myself but more worried for others who can´t get right help because of the mess we have.
I am so glad over this long video that I could finish in three days. I will definitely recommend people, organizations, health workers etc. to listen and pay attention to what you openly talked about.
I really hope we get all misinformation and alternatives rooted out, by teaching, spreading and sharing the right sources.
I live in Canada where marijuana is now legal and over the past 5-10 years we've gone from it being frowned upon to it being nearly completely accepted, with head shops in nearly every plaza.
Unfortunately, during this transition, we completely accepted the philosophy that marijuana is completely safe and non-addictive. I fell into that trap and developed a 3 year long addiction that had extreme negative consequences for my mental health and my life in general.
Is it better for your health than alcohol? Probably. But not by much.
But most people are completely unaware of the dangers of psychological addiction and the havoc marijuana wreaks on your sleep.
Also, when quitting marijuana, you ABSOLUTELY go through withdrawals that have both physical and mental symptoms.
I agree. I am very pro marijuana and consider myself a “responsible stoner”
We know it doesn’t work for everyone. It can have negative side effects, inhaling smoke in your lungs, regardless of what type of smoke it is, is still not good for you.
Marijuana is a life saver for me, though.
Absolutely. I have a family member who has gone through marijuana withdrawal twice now, no jokes it's brutal.
The dangers of marijuana and alcohol should be talked about much more, beginning in school.
To say it's "completely accepted" snd people believe it's "completely safe" is ridiculously far from the truth.
It basically has the same stigma it always did.
Exactly. And I’m pro marijuana being legalized. I just don’t like how it went from being evil Satan drugs to now it’s perfect. It’s still something being ingested. Tylenol has side effects. Nothing is 💯 good. So kids are smoking it thinking it’s safe.
There needed to be a more nuanced education about it in the education system.
As a mom it’s super frustrating.
As a Canadian, I've been conditioned into "when you're feeling sick, drink ginger ale" and almost 9/10 times the cold just goes away.
Ya but ginger ale now is bad. It’s sugar water. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s there was more ginger. Now it gives me a stomach ache. At least Canada Dry.
That's what cold viruses do, they go away....with or without the ginger ale.
It is "hot Coca-Cola with Lemon boiled with ginger" for Hong Kong ppl lol
@OrdinaryEXP I don't really like cola drinks but damn that sounds delicious. I like ginger and lemon with green tea, just some low quality cheap green tea but it's delicious
@@Mama_Bear524Ginger isn’t effective if it isn’t fresh
If "alternative medicine" worked it would be called "medicine".
Bet you thought you nailed it huh? No. It's simply called "alternative" because it's something other than the mainstream. Humanity is led down funny paths all the time, humans have an extensive record of doing things that don't make sense just because it's what everyone has always done. There are plenty of "alternatives" in any category that often work as good or better than mainstream methods
Reiki works, quantum touch works and energy medicine works, so open your mind. Good alternative medical techniques, like those I mentioned, will work without doing harm. Traditional medicine usually has side effects.
Silence bot
not necessarily.
alternative medicine is proto medicine. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. sometimes it is safe, sometimes it has horrific side effects that could not be immediately noticeable.
medicine is the gold standard. that doesn’t mean that traditional medicines didn’t work beforehand, we just didn’t know how effective/safe they were.
quinine worked before it was ever studied.
Also this is naive considering that some things that are "alternative" in some parts of the world, are just "medicine" in other parts of the world.
I never found medication nor Marijuana to be helpful when it comes to depression and anxiety. Most of these mental health disorders are trauma related , stemming from childhood and our relationships with our caregivers and those closest to us.
To heal anxiety and depression we’ve got to address our fears and those unresolved traumas. It’s not easy , but it’s worth it 💫
Never give up !
That’s because your depression wasn’t due to a chemical imbalance.
Mine was both trauma related and a chemical imbalance, so I absolutely needed trauma therapy and medication to combat/overcome my depression. Without the correct meds, therapy (of any type) was mostly ineffective, but the right medications without proper therapy can only do so much when part of the problem is rooted in trauma.
I know of people who were cured of their depression with only medications-because there was no underlying trauma. Their brain chemistry just needed slight tweaking.
The cause (and treatments) of mental health disorders can be wide ranging and will be different for everyone.
How do you deal with a CHEMICAL imbalance then?? I'll wait 🥱
@@MiraBoo Sadly here in the UK they don't seem to know or care whether drepression is from a chemical inbalance, they prescribe antidepressants like they're skittles.
I got put on antidepressants to help me sleep, rather than figure out why I'm tired all the time they just want to pump people full of "happy pills."
@@who__cares__There is no evidence that clinical depression is the result of a chemical imbalance. It was a marketing strategy by Pfizer. Google it. The whole thing has been debunked for years. Does medication numb you, yes? Until your receptors become downregulated and you need to continue to updose. Then you develop a tolerance and your dr keeps switching you to another one and another one and another one. Then you stop and can have severe symptoms for years that are much worse than the original depression. They don’t do what you think they do. They actually create a chemical imbalance.
Thanks so much for this! We need a lot more discussion around heuristics, cognitive biases and logical fallacies. These concepts are baked into marketing 101. And are the reason why misinformation has such a strong foot hold on social media. I hadn’t heard of Dr. Stea before (but I’m also not on social media). Many thanks to him for calling out the snake oil sellers and misinformants. 🙌🙌
Unfortunately, in my culture, men are supposed to be strong, and we are not supposed to show emotion, so it took me a while to understand the concept of depression
only strong men can show emotion. a week man is afrade to ve vulnerable and to show all his other sides
@@NurseHODL today doctors are trained to treat symptoms not causes of illness and many of them are psychologically based, you will never hear a doctor say “ have you seen a psychologist about this? More than half the drugs we see on TV are due to stress anxiety self hate poor image sexual trauma the list goes on
I'm so glad you brought on a psychiatrist that specializes in economics, social bias, and media interactions. This stuff takes up way more space than it deserves to in my mind. To think something as controversial as others opinions could hold you back in life. I think a lot of it is tied to bullying. It's something a majority of the population doesn't have to face because they don't face the negative outcomes of it every day. I think everyone gets bullied at one point in their life. That's how social cliches are made. It's a weird social status bond some people choose to make, we even see this in political parties and in social workers that are supposed to help their community. Sooo what's going on here? I'd love to point this back onto myself and say I'm wrong. However, internalizing it only hurts more.
My cousin was convinced by a holistic doctor that they could cure his pulmonary fibrosis. He then got off of the lung transplant list. By the time he realized he was being taken, he was too weak to actually have a lung transplant if they could have gotten lungs for him. This is why I get very upset when people start bringing up holistic and alternative medicine.
I feel bad for him hopefully he’s ok
Oh no... He died from it. I've harbored a lot of anger at holistic "healers" since then.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I wonder if this tragedy caused the holistic doctor to question their field or if they just pocketed the money.
@@wendys9500 most people try to avoid taking responsibility for their actions. It's a sad truth.
I have PTSD and I am being treated with EMDR. I am so happy to know that I am receiving what I need 😊
It is helping me A LOT
I'm a registered acupuncturist in Canada, and I have to say that acupuncture isn't for everyone. It's normal to feel worse after a session before it gets better. It also depends on the acupuncturist's experience as well. Make sure to find the right acupuncturist!
I am a lifestyle medicine educator in Ningbo China. I am Australian. I really like acupuncture and have used it many times to treat symptoms. I use lifestyle medicine to correct what caused the problem in the first place. I wish these doctors would do something on lifestyle medicine because it is a legitimate branch of medicine but it is not well known.
I couldn't agree more. And as most acupuncturists recommend (me being one), it is loom at your whole life and situation. Acupuncture is not symptom based, it's a whole approach. We are supposed to address what needs to looked at.
Just want to say that I genuinely learn something new every time when I watch either your videos or podcast episodes. Your information feels endless, and you have a very lovely way of speaking.
The idea that there's no such thing as medically real mental illness sounds true to me because it's confirmation of my self-loathing, ashamed, and guilty feelings I'm already working in.
This was very enlightening and helpful. I can't even express how much. I heard the phrase correlation does not imply causation only MAYBE a year ago. It really made me stop and think. I think I have been taught basically the opposite my whole life in an intrinsic sort of way. Listening to you, Dr. Mike, has definitely helped to change my view on many things.
I would love to see you do a face to face with a functional medicine practitioner, it would be good to get your take on it
This is absolutely fascinating, I've been diving into this world of misinformation a ton over the last several months trying to understand the phenomenon of why so many people go for it. You both basically summarized everything I've been studying and more. This is a phenomenal episode!
""By definition", I begin
"Alternative Medicine", I continue
"Has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work
Do you know what they call 'alternative medicine' that's been proved to work?
Medicine." - Tim Minchin
There is so much from that piece that's quotable and awesome. Just like basically everything he's done.
Actually it’s allopathic medicine or modern conventional medicine proven by modern scientific and researched information. Remember that Ayurvedic medicines treated is an ancient health management as is Chinese medicine and homeopathic medicine. Modern or allopathic medicinal products are influenced greatly by large pharmaceutical companies. There are many modern medicines that originated from natural products used by the ancients or alternatives.
@@kerriecu2 Allow me to ummm actually back at you... LITERALLY nobody is saying that modern medicines are not "influenced" by ancient medical practices and remedies. However, thinking that those ancient practices are somehow superior to modern medicine simply because they are ancient and were practiced for millennia is a logical fallacy (appeal to tradition, probably also throw in appeal to nature). When science determines that a medical practice is efficacious it crosses over from the "alternative" to the allopathic (I had to look that up... it just means conventional).
If you are paying treasures to be healthy, is that life even worth living?
Such an insightful and interesting video, thanks Doc Mike!
As a 3rd yr psychology student, aspiring to be a clinical psychologist, I really learned a lot through your discussion. I also confirmed some of my ideas about mental health in the present times or just in general. Timely with our assignment about code of ethics and our prof teaching us that we are to guide and help clients to find answers to their questions or solutions to their problems themselves- aside from evidence-based medicine/treatments- I agree with Dr. Jonathan on not offering alternative medicine myself to the patients. I’ll let them decide or bring up the idea of turning to those treatments. But I’ll be a responsible clinician and I will explain to them the pros and the cons.
About your acupuncture experience or alternative medicine in general… I think it’s a gamble. A lot of factors, some the both of you mentioned in your discussion, can make it effective or not. With your experience, perhaps it depended on how well trained the person who did acupuncture on you LOL.
Lastly, I’m ashamed to assume that the stigma on mental health awareness or anti-psychiatry is lessened after the pandemic- or at least in my country 🇵🇭, if not, at my community perhaps. But I do see the lack of clinicians or licensed practitioners that can offer help to people struggling with their mental health, especially here in PH. So it’s hard to seek for help here (I would say its not really really easily accessible), in addition with the ‘resilient’ filipino mindset we have. And the lack of funding for research of more evidence-based treatments or lack of budget to support mental health services, makes me sad. I hope our generation can bring change to the health care industry, with the help of pioneers like the both of you- not on some tiktok videos, twitter or facebooks posts, etc.
I like the in-depth discussions on this podcast.
I'm glad he brought up the fact that the medical field pushes people to turn to alternative medicine. People have to wait forever to be seen, can't be seen at all, can't afford it, or are brushed off conpletely by doctors/specialists. Women especially are not taken seriously. It took two years, and practically dying to finally find out my endocrine system had conpletely shut down. My syptoms were brushed off as "these things happen", or I was overreacting. It doesn't help that doctors simply are not given enough time to properly diagnose and treat patients. Two to five minutes is not enough time to really address anything. The price of prescriptions also causes people to look for alternatives. One of my medications is over $100 for a one month supply. I can get the same amount in a natural formula over the counter for less than $40. I think it would be benifical if natural medicine, and mainsream medicine worked together as a cohesive unit.
I don’t know man. I don’t smoke anymore but I used to smoke a few times a week and i would just sit with my thoughts and feelings, i would ask myself deep questions and i would journal. It helped me get into a deeper headspace to be able to reflect like that. I feel that time of my life was very transformative. I think with a substance like cannabis and psychedelics it really depends HOW you use it.
This needs to be run on a loop on every FB/TikTok/Instagram session
You should get Dr. Gabor Mate on the podcast, keep up the good work!!
Great interview, very informational. This is the reality we live in unfortunately and we need more doctors like Dr Stea
Accupunture has worked wonders for me - much better than the years of pain medicines and opioids my doctors had shoveled down my throat
And if you think that works for you thats great, but a testimonial is not evidence
Acupuncture made me worse.
@@annahilton5375testimonial is still evidence lol, that how scientist test things
Even Dr. Mike himself had some positive results with acupuncture (and also negative ones).
Placebo
How weird is it that I was looking on your channel for a video such as this last night. Ended up watching the Ayurvedic debate because the idea was there and then bam. You uploaded this.
Life coaching is not therapy and nor should it be presented or introduced as such. It is a major breach of the ethics of the profession itself. No coach should work with a person who in reality needs therapy and who they suspect is using the coaching as a replacement for therapy. It is a cardinal error.
I see you decided to go with the Better Help endorsement program. I appreciate you screening and checking in with other specialists before signing on with these companies. I do worry about the stressful conditions psych practitioners are going through seeing so many patients and if this online system helps.
Acupuncture has helped me with lower back pain and one time when I sprained my ankle. From what I understood from what the Traditional Chinese psychisian explained to me, the acupuncture uses simulation of specific nerve clusters to get your muscles to relax and release the muscle knots that are causing pain.
I think that acupuncture is suitable for some types of muscular issues, but it's certainly not a fix-all therapy. Probably if deep tissue massage is too painful or could worsen the injury, then acupuncture could possibly help.
I’ve suffered from severe depression majority of my life, I’ve had past attempts, sh etc and I’ve never been spiritual, I’ve always been an atheist and very “science” based but then I started trying more alternative approaches and honestly it has helped. I’m not sure if it’s a placebo effect because I’ve put meaning and some sort of concept to what I do but it has helped me feel better so I guess it really depends on the person. Although I will say I still think that some alternative medicine is “bad” and some of these influencers who promote certain things are lying and just trying to get fame or money.
Acupuncture is one of the least controversial therapies in terms of evidence based healthcare. Once you study every pressure point in the body listed under acupuncture studies, you realize that every single one has an anatomical significance and most points can be directly associated with the condition being treated
Interesting topic and it’s well-deserved. I just didn’t find the guest to be well informed in a lot of areas. It seemed that several times you were able to explain his reasoning better than he did. This took away a lot for me from the interview. I’m sure you can find others. You should look into bringing on Dr. Nassir Ghaemi, he is very well-versed and research, diagnosis, and psychiatrics
People usually turn to snake oil after the $$$ medical community tries a couple of different drugs on them and gives up. Almost everyone I know has been gaslit by doctors/specialists and has found partial relief in a supplement or alternative practice.
Honestly there is nothing wrong with alternative practices or supplements as a complement to medicine. You’re right that wellness involves a lot more than throwing medications at an issue, especially for things like mental health and chronic pain. The issue is that there are a LOT of scammers and predators in alternative medicine. It’s important to give people information on which alternative practices are likely to be beneficial at best and or harmless at worst, which are likely harmful, and which are outright scams.
@@cowmath77 I agree, they are frustrated by doctors response to treatment or not getting the results they want
Especially us women. Or if you’re a POC.
I feel heard by my doctor. Thank goodness. But my neurologist doesn’t listen. If he was my primary care doctor I could see myself being desperate and turning away from western medicine.
I do know that happens and I would urge those people to not give up on finding a better physician for them. I'm someone who has experienced this as a rare disease and rare condition person, but I didn't give up and I've found my medical team that are incredible and listen to me. Not everyone has the luxury in every situation unfortunately but they're there if you done give up and are able to utilize health insurance or funds available or other resources.
The alternative practice realm encourages pts to spend lots of money on questionable lab tests and also supplements with no evidence they work!
Thankyou for all you do, what you’re doing is incredible. Your stories and commentary can impact people’s lives and some people just don’t realize. You are a great doctor and keep up what you are doing.
I think one of the BEST ways that doctors can fight fringe treatments is to just listen to their patients. If a patient comes in with some pseudoscience treatment they found, I think as their primary, listen to the claims and obviously explain why its not evidence based, BUT encourage them to seek, YOU, the DOCTORS, Guidance through the pseudoscience. Like if the patient wants to do this simply say "I CANNOT recommend this as a form of treatment, HOWEVER I can offer my guidance with evidence based medicine if you see adverse effects or beneficial affects." Be on their side and treat it almost like a supervised consumption service. If they are going to do the drug or pseudoscience treatment at least make it as safe as possible for them. Let them have a fall back, understand what is going into their body and how to counteract it if need be, Because as soon as you close the door on their pseudoscience you might also close the door on their trust.
I find this topic fascinating, I could have listened to this all day
I think there's a lot of value to be found here, however I also think there's holes in the argument.
- 29:30 he says that they are trained to do this, but others "clumsily" stumble upon it. Board certified Naturopathic Doctors are absolutely trained for this too, it's not an accident of their philosophy, it's something they are aware of and intentional about.
- There's no recognition that while yes, some people in the alternative health world absolutely fall into pseudoscience practices, again board certified ND's are educated in pharmaceuticals, nutrition, etc. Fields that I would assume he doesn't see as pseudoscience.
- Many in the field of "alternative medicine" hold evidence based medicine in high regard. He acts like they are two entirely separate things. (yes, there are people who go down that road, but I think it's naive to label ALL of alternative medicine as separate from evidence based)
- Again, I absolutely agree with many topics discussed, I just think there's some important factors that were disregarded.
Thank you for this!
@@Wren25953 Of course! Honestly I was expecting a lot of criticism about what I said.
I totally agree with you 👏🏼 well said
well said
Completely agree, just as board certified Chiropractic Doctors (DC) are also fully trained. Of course, like in every single profession (like Dr Gundry who’s and MD) there are some who are not evidence based and boast about ridiculous claims, there are many who are very evidence based and ethical, and even work interprofesional with other healthcare providers.
Awesome interview. Having been in the clutches of alternative medicine a few years back, many of the points still hold true.
He's trying to say "insidious" (for anyone else confused why he's saying "insiduous" like it's a tree that loses its leaves in winter...)
It’s important to note that acupuncture is notoriously difficult to study. Hard to do a double-blind study when the doctor (and maybe even the patient) knows they are receiving a sham needle. But we do know that complications are low when practiced safely, so I think doctors should be more open to it for conditions that are not well understood and resist better-studied treatment (or if patients don’t want to use high risk medicine like opioids).
I had acupuncture for my myofascial trigger points in my neck. There were hard as rocks and no massages or heat pads could help. You immidiately noticed a change when the needle triggered a nearby muscle. Like a electric impulse. Next day I had sour muscles. Day after my shoulder and neck felt like butter. That and my special pillow are the only things that bring relief.
It became so horrible, that I consider to surgically remove the trigger points because the blood circulation is blocked to my hand and head sometimes.
So no, certainly no placebo effect. With muscles it helps. But it no miracle wonder medicine against everything.
There was a study/experiment who found out that acupuncture points are thinner then the rest of the skin. The needle works like a electric pulse relaxing the muscle from intense tensioning. Even if it is not 100% clear how, it helps and if it not helps, it doesn't damage anything.
Please make a video on ADHD. It’s something I really struggle with and very few people actually understand how it works and how it affects people like me.
Another great video - thank you! Could you do one on women’s health? What we know, don’t know, any evolution within the space over the last 25 years, how and why doctors approach certain women’s health topics certain ways, etc.?
Just throwing this here: we know what acupuncture works on now, it works on the fascia. Western medicine used to think that fascia was just passive packaging so it got thrown out, that's why it couldn't find the basis for acupuncture. Now that people are realizing that fascia is extremely important, it's being studied more. It just happens that acupuncture meridians run along the fascia lines.
Acupuncture is not the only thing that works, yoga works the fascia too, I got rid of my remaining back pain through yoga (and shockingly enough my period pain disappeared too, they used to keep me up at night because of how painful they were). New techniques are also being discovered. If you have frozen shoulders, injecting water to soften up the fascia works. You can check the video Fascia: Cause of Chronic Pain - Medical Frontiers.
I've done massage for my mom since I was a kid. She's Chinese and she taught me. I didn't know what the theoretical basis was, I just work on the tough spots until they're soft. Once I googled it and the result was "we don't know what muscle knots are." Well now it turns out it's the fascia.
Yeah. I go to a naprapat that also does acupuncture.
Massage helps me relax. It's a stress relief, which helps because I suffer from headaches caused by stress. I combine it with medication, however. I go to the naprapat to reduce the stress and thereby the frequency of which I get the headache. But when I get the headache (which is a type of migraine), I take medication and go to sleep. Otherwise, I puke.
I don't believe in all alternative medicine, but I understand why people are willing to test it.
You're the doctor, but I think I have a slight correction. I have spent a lot of time in physical therapy after surgeries. There is a difference in acupuncture and dry needling. Acupuncture, if I understand it correctly, is sticking needles in certain locations based on body energy points or something similar. Dry needling is finding locations where the muscles are very tight and inserting the needle in very specific spots to relieve the tension in that knotted muscle. Acupuncture would not locate the knots, rather place them in predetermined locations. By my understanding, sticking the needles in the knots, forces the muscles to spasm and relax. At least that is my understanding.
Dr. Johnathan Stea says that he doesn't want to belittle and bash, but he comes through exactly like this. If i were his patient with a cultural background that believes in reincarnation, and hear him speak like that, i would feel extremely judged and vulnerable and I would never ever come back for another session with him.
He is on a podcast and he doesn't do that therapy, so if you were seeking that type of treatment, you surely wouldn't go to him, because he doesn't do that therapy... And if you'd mention it to him, he wouldn't bash you for it. His personal opinion on faith shouldn't be an issue to you, because you're at a doctor's office, not a faith healer.
Also, most evidence based doctors don't practice their medicine based on your personal Gods and traditions. They practiced FACT based medicine, which is the exact opposite of faith. Faith is the absence of evidence. You believe it even though you don't have evidence. So idk why you're surprised that a doctor doesn't believe in reincarnation.
Also, even if reincarnation does exist, those "doctors" aren't tapping into some past life of yours. They're making up what trauma you had in your past life, giving you a reason for why you have a certain problem, knowing that you'll believe it aka exploiting your beliefs for money. It might help you as a placebo, but you most likely have trauma in your CURRENT life, which won't get fixed or uncovered by making up a story to make you feel better in the short run. It's horrible and ridiculous. Exploiting the vulnerable 101.
@@anitaposa9164 my point is not from the perspective of someone who would be actively seeking a past life regression therapy. But from a perspective of someone who ie. Could be of an Indian background or any other culture that believes in reincarnation. And his attitude towards that belief definitely comes through as belittling. I'm just pointing out his hard cultural bias and prejudice that he's not even aware of having, nothing else.
And one very important point I tried to make but that it went entirely past you: doctors should practise evidence based medicine, yes. Without any doubt. But they should also pay respect to different religions and beliefs of their patients if they want their patients to build trust - a key factor when considering mental health therapists.
This doctor who is extensively practicing is on a public podcast sounding very judgmental towards eastern beliefs and with very little consideration of his real life patients having access to this.
@@PashaHajmanHi I'm a psychologist from India and I agree with this doctor. The way he described it is exactly how me and my colleagues who are RCI licensed would go about doing so too. Your religious beliefs are always welcome, but we will not agree to give intervention based on your beliefs if they are unethical according to our science and the guidelines of our licensed bodie. We would advise you the cons of such treatments and then wish you the best because at the end of the day all we want is for you to be healthy mentally and in whichever way you want to reach that space is totally up to you, Dr.Jonathan Stea even talks about patient autonomy and that's what we respect too. Although I do have to mention that in india there are a lot of grifters more than actual licensed psychologists, so maybe they might take advantage of such beliefs, but any licensed professional would follow strict guidelines and ethics in their practice.
That is why doctors are so important so you can develop a connection with them and they can use your religious beliefs with facts.
As a skeptic who believes strongly in science, I think in the coming years we're going to watch acupuncture be fine-tuned into proper evidence-based medicine. I think we've starting using it too early in the process, but you can't ignore the fact that is DOES work.....in certain circumstances. It also can definitely hurt, as you experienced. Specifically in controlling pain. I don't think it'll be applicable in much else, if anything else. It's just going to take a few years, a few really good studies to nail down the proper way to use it to avoid harm, and to optimize pain control.
I can't stand alternative medicine pushers. If I post anything on social media about my mental health or my disability I get suggestions like "oh have you tried yoga or this random essential oil?".
If any of it worked do you really think I'd be on the amount of meds a take? Or in bed because I'm in too much pain to move?
Why are you holding on so tightly to your misery? Just let it go and have some fun. Your anger is making you sick.
ONG! as someone who also has a disability, that comment is really insensitive and disrespectful 🤯
I tried yoga but the incense triggered my migraines. I think the exercise did as well.
@@suzanneemerson2625Sir, I assume your cognitive functions fall on the lower end of the population, so please take a moment to think about what you said. Teach yourself critical thinking to make up for your lack of intelligent thought, and truly dig into why you are able to believe such an obviously idiotic statement.
I belive there are often simple solutions that are not neccisarily western medicine or "big pharma". This should NOT result in rejecting medical treatment. I had a great Osteopathic pediatrician for my oldest son. He would suggest a couple 'home remedies" and say if you see these signs or he doesn't improve, get this prescription filled. It made me trust him so much more because he was really thoughtful about my child and empowered me as a mom to care for my baby.
I’d love to see a conversation with Dr. Mike and a naturopathic doctor
he talked to Dr Gundry , if that counts , they don't do enough research on alternative medicines cause there's no money in a herbal remedy.
I really love this series of important conversations with medical professionals! I would love to hear more about the rehabilitation side of medicine. I wonder if there is a new episode in the works from someone like an occupational therapist or physical therapist? Thank you for making engaging thought-provoking content!
As my father says, "If it worked, it would just be called medicine."
Is your father @chrys9256? Looks like he commented before you.
But what about the natural remedies our ancestors used that we now called alternative medicines because they don’t work as well as pharmaceutical
@@eshaverma07 I'm not his dad, as far as I know, and I'm really not taking credit for that. It's from comedian Tim Minchin.
@@eshaverma07 No, but my dad is a pharmacist, so he doesn't like "alternative medicine"
@@chrys9256”as far as I know” lol
Doctor Mike and Doctor Stea, what you are talking about giving patients more time can be covered by lifestyle medicine’s recommendations on ‘shared medical appointments’ whereby patients with similar conditions can have a group session with a GP whereby they can learn how to manage their diseases, possibly even reverse it with changes to their lifestyle. Doctor Gary Egger has written many papers on that. He is an academic in Australia. There are many more physicians studying lifestyle medicine which is a legitimate branch of medicine and my speciality (ex nurse).
Honestly, I just keep this stuff in the background while i do homework or while im chillin'. Thanks for the Checkup Dr. Mike! Keep this going, know what you are doing is right.
I think a lot of the problem is that so many of us are sick of being let down by medicine too. It’s the only profession that they can get things wrong over and over or not do anything for you and still get paid, a lot. Many of us are seeking help and don’t find it. I don’t find medicine any more reliable than the alternatives I have tried.
I don’t think mainstream medicine is any less interested in just making money off of us than an alternative medicine would be.
Phenomenal discussion. You should definitely have Dr. Stea back on the podcast at some point.
I don't know how pseudoscientific Ayurveda is in the USA that Dr Mike is so against it, but in India, Ayurveda, Unani and Siddha are three traditional Indian schools of Medicine that are actually regulated by the Indian government. As a lifelong user of Ayurveda, I have found it to be very effective and reliable.
I think I should clarify that there are stupid stuff happening here too like when the CEO of Patanjali, the largest brand of Ayurveda medicines in India, claimed they found medicines to treat Corona even before the vaccine was out. The medical association called out his misinformation, but the damage was already done. Patanjali earned crores of money, as the fact-checking doesn't spread as fast as the misinformation. It definitely is not a flawless field.
Nothings flawless@@NVKEERTHANA
I have an extreme heat sensitivity. I started therapy a couple weeks ago. I have generalized anxiety and PTSD. I've also started telling my story. I have one video here so far.
5:12 Doctor Mike's examples of heuristics weren't great, but the understanding between these two was on point. Heuristics are more akin to stereotypes - which as they suggest can be exploited because they aren't the truth but tend to be operationally close enough.
I've basically been forced to look into alternative medcine, cause my countries mental health care is so awful, I've seen many therapists and none helped, I've tried many antidepressants and they don't work, even though antidepressants haven't helped me, they still try to push me onto them, it's like their paided by the conpainies to seel thier pills.
If modern medicine can fall apart after just two things didn't work, it shouldn't be surprising for my docs when I start looked at whatever else I can do that might help me.
I learnt a lot! Thank you Dr Mike😊.
Dr Jonathan used "nuanced" almost a million times😂 haha. Loved learning from him tho.
If evidence based medicine doctors didn't gaslight people with serious conditions such as long covid as having "health anxiety", just because there isn't enough research in this field, trust would be much higher.
If people would accept that sometimes they are just wrong and its not just "lack of research" world would be better
@@alcidedragonboth can be true sometimes an itch is just an itch and sometimes it's cancer but having your doctor listen to your concerns seriously and do their best to clarify, or help assuage your concerns would be the best of both worlds
@@Spacemarine658 Yes, but the problem is that a lot of people think that they're theory is true when science prove them basically wrong by stating that something does not exist, and people wont listen to anything else.
@@alcidedragon are you insinuating that long covid doesn’t exist? Because research very clearly says otherwise. But that doesn’t mean that doctors are aware of the research. Doctors are trained in universities using the knowledge of 50 years ago.
@@helgaotto7801 That is precisly wrong. Doctor are trained with the most récent research and learn how to stay updated on the subject.
Your precisly the problem here has thinking that you know what you have and if doctor does not agree they are wrong
Everything he said is applicable for all the entities involved. The human factor can make everything we do for money, power or prestige deceptive.
I agree that alternative medicine is often bull puckies. This however dismisses the reality that pharmaceutical companies create drugs of questionable efficacy, and control the information anyone sees of the research.
I also question psych med evaluations that talk about brain chemistry, but practically are little better than behavioral questionnaires.
Hi dr mike! I’m 10 years old I love your channel
I wish Dr. Stea would give more credit to patients who do choose to go to alternative medicine practitioners and engage in "alternative" treatment modalities. There are good alternative medicine doctors who are exceptional diagnosticians and have wonderful engagement with their patients; are able to be attentive, curious, engaged and provide education/encourage change. Its bold to assume that cognitive bias is the main reason for making this choice and that the "analytical thinking" isnt exactly what caused people to make this decision in regards to something as important as their health, ESPECIALLY when managing chronic conditions and having had little to no luck with "traditional western medicine". MDs and DOs are overworked to the point where the time they spend with patients just isn't enough to warrant good outcomes in a lot of cases and things get missed and ignored commonly. Prime examples being diagnosis times for various womens health conditions. What Dr. Stea calls "clumsily stumbling upon" good outcomes within alternative medicine is NOT accidental the way he makes it seem in my opinion. The ability to cultivate a therapeutic alliance and educate your patients + inspire change is WILDLY underrated within this discussion and its not an accidental effect of "functional medicine" practitioners, it is very much intended. It might not be "special" as Dr. Stea put it, but it is GOOD and the places that have begun to regulate the fields of naturopathic medicine, chiropractic, etc. and make space for alternative medicine modalities did so intentionally to allow for the healthcare system to make use of these "good" aspects while minimizing peoples abilities for just anybody to call themselves a practitioner. It isn't a way to "sneak in" alternative medicine rhetoric into the healthcare system, it is the opposite; an attempt to erase the non-evidence scammers that have no license or credentials and pedal essential oils as a cure-all.
Wanted to chime in on acupuncture. I didn't believe in it either, but there are some theories that it stimulates the fascia in some ways and that it could kick-start some healing mechanisms in the body that we don't quite understand yet. It seems like we have misunderstood the fascia for quite some time, and I hope there will be more proper research on it soon.
there's a frustrating false equivalence between good data and misinformation when people say the way the cure to bad information is to provide good information. Misinformation looks nothing like good quality data. Misinformation is couched in emotionally evocative language designed to prime the audience before any assertion is made. Because misinformation is bullshit, its purveyors have to focus on persuasion. Good data is often couched in caveats and explanations of its own limits, which is a sign to a trained professional that its probably good data, but comes off to a lay person as uncertain and therefore bad. Misinformation isn't merely data that happens to be wrong, its a work of manipulation.
Love these long ones