I am so thankful for zach and mike acknowledging people of color and women. Earlier this year i went to my doctor for extreme knee pain. I had to have coworkers assist me with standing up. By the time i got to an orthopedic doctor, i had to fight to have surgery. Which the surgery ended up fixing the problem. Not only that but the condition i have is so rare that they are using my surgery footage to teach med students and surgeons. The sad part is if I had been referred to the proper specialists ten years ago I would never had to have surgery. The reason i couldnt go see the specialist? Insurance and age.
A hospital I went to did the same thing in 2018 with my Sinus Surgery. My ENT told me that my case was case in particular was so rare and unique that it was kept for studies to med students. I did ask for the footage of the surgery and they never replied back so I took it as a no lol. But I'm glad that my case is being used to help the med students to this day. I hope that your condition will find a cure or treatment and I'm so sorry you had to go through this! I wishing you all the best!
Well, I'm a white guy. And the Emergency Room Docter sent me home.....after weeks of misery found out, I had a vocal cord paralyzed, and it could be deadly. Sooooo.
@@morphius3162001 I hope you're feeling better. My ENT doctor told me that had I never got the surgery or my sinuses treated, I would have died from meningitis in a short matter of time😩
@morphius3162001 is your point that its awful it happened to you as well, or that "it happened to me, a white guy, so your experience as a woman and/or person of color is invalid."? Because the tone is a bit vague here.
As someone who's heart doctor said "You have something wrong we just don't know but you're young so you'll be fine" since high school. I have a heart condition but no one will look into it enough for me to get a diagnoses because I'm young and healthy in their eyes. I am thankful for you both acknowledging the problems
That's the same for me with my migraines and chronic pain issues. They're always like, "Oh you're young so you'll grow out of it". And I'm just sitting there like...yeah but I'm suffering NOW. It's so stupid
I’ve had chronic pain, due to some botched surgeries that started when I was in my 20s, I had that a ton. I’ve also had doctors right off a symptom because of a past diagnosis, or they had a similar issue, and it’s turned in to an argument/debate about why ordering a simple blood test would shut me up. Now in my late 40s it’s gotten better, aside from the whole pain med crackdown.
I feel this in my soul and I’m so sorry. The medical system is really weirdly uncomfortable with saying “you have a major problem! We just don’t know what it is.” Unfortunately, they don’t get paid to be detectives. They’re mostly doing triage, tbh. I literally had to research (once I had the internet lol) and fight for YEARS to find out my diagnosis. And it was horrible. I don’t wish it on anyone.
yup. it took me six years to be diagnosed with pots and then i was only able to get treatment because my symptoms were so bad i couldn’t function anymore. and even then i had doctors tell me they were shocked that i got sick “out of nowhere” like…. i’ve been telling you i’m sick for YEARS you just wouldn’t listen
We have turned over control of the entire field of medicine to insurance companies. Our health decisions are ultimately determined by for profit companies not doctors. It's shameful
@@ecokrazykinda agree but at the same time we wouldn’t have many of the medical achievements we have if there was no monetary incentive for companies to develop them
@@lolzman122 Most innovations aren't born out of profit motives. They're born out of need or human curiosity. The profit motive generally tends to get in the way of innovation.
@@brandonpitt8384you have a very optimistic view of the world buddy. Companies fund new research only on the premise that the resulting patent will make them money. Individual Researchers do the research for betterment of the world but still they would only do it if there was sufficient salary for their family there. Just the truth.
As a chonky woman - it took 20 years and moving to a country with universal healthcare to get an MRI ordered to find out that I had a birth defect that caused malformed and _missing_ spinal discs from my mid back down that was causing serious back pain.. obviously it was because of my weight, or the pain was being caused by PCOS or whatever else it could be handed off as. Once I found out - my docs and I could put together a pain management plan, physio and massage therapy that now lets me function without being in constant pain. After living in Europe for 20 years (and yes there are issues there as well) and moving back to the US the state of healthcare scares the hell out of me.
So glad you got answers to your chronic pain. Massage therapy is a powerful tool for me as well in managing chronic pain. Sadly, I no longer have it covered under my insurance plan. Looking forward to having it again sometime in the future. It's nearly as strong / effective as opioids for me, that's how good it is!
Oh boy I can relate to this! Like yes, obviously I understand that my weight has an effect, but there is more than just that! I am so thankful for my former family doctor ordered an MRI (and has in the past as well)! We found out I had a degenerative disease the first time, and the most recent time I had a significant herniated disk that required surgery. The surgery was scheduled relatively quickly, and even then it got to a point when I couldn’t walk without assistance because of the disc pressing on spinal cord. The only reason I don’t see him anymore is because I still live in the town I went to college (I’m 24 lol) and don’t see myself going back to live there and driving 2 1/2 hours is a lot for one appt, though I tried to as long as I could. Thankfully I found a great primary care where I live. But man, it is hard to find people like that!
It's just sad that basically the medical systems are designed in a way where the people who are the most disadvantaged (people with comorbid conditions and rare conditions) end up suffering the longest. I keep envisioning a system where if a patient seems too difficult to diagnose they can be filtered through a "difficult to diagnose" office that combines medical knowledge with mental health support because it's tough to not know what's making you sick. Actually getting a medical team yo treat mental health right seems easier these days because younger people in the US seem to come with basic respect for mental health conditions that older generations didn't have.
I can empathise with Zach's frustration. I have chronic migraine and I feel like nothing actually works and the desperation does make people want that "magic cure" ❤
I had to run through a gauntlet to get what my neurologist was trying to give me for chronic migraine. But just in the last three months I finally got Nurtec. It has been literally life changing. Good luck to you. Keep advocating and pushing for yourself.
I lived for years with horrible migraines, and even have a neurostimulator to help control them. When my husband developed celiac, we went completely gluten free. My headaches improved tremendously, and if I eat gluten now it will give me a migraine. I'm NOT saying you should stop eating gluten, but keep advocating for yourself and don't give up! Chronic pain is awful...
@@cindy7817 Thank you for not saying it's a cure-all, trying gluten-free. It made me so sick but I stuck it out for a year this see if it would help with the migraines, it didn't, know difference. But I know a couple people that it really helped with autoimmune conditions so I think it's so worth trying but with caution.
As someone with an ongoing undiagnosed health issue, I get what Zach means about 'not wanting to know anymore'. There was a point during a brain CT where I went "I hope they find a brain tumor so I just know what this!" I was sick of all the tests and scans and blood draws and elimination diets and trying solution after solution with no answers. At this point I have a web of medications and coping tools so I can get by, and I'm fine with that. I may never have answers, and even if I had them, there may still not be a solution. And I don't have the time/money/resources for endless tests and treatments.
Yup! I stopped seeing my specialist because it’s a two hour drive and the medication they gave me had horrible side effects that don’t seem worth the little bit of help I get. I’m having more and more issues and I just told me husband it’s just not worth it. It’s not worth the stress and frustrations of going to these appointments to not get solid answers and not get help.
@@allyson6735are you the type of person that has bad side effects from almost every medication? I'm like that and it sucks because I don't have a choice to not take the medications. Wish they could discover better alternatives
same.... i feel like my symptoms are very close to chronic fatigue syndrome but it is heavily undiagnosed/ unrecognized and every doctor i meet says its all in my head 😂
Ugh so true. Just existing and coping with health issues/pain takes up so. much. mental. energy. It leaves me with no more mental capacity to get through work and normal things throughout the day.
The government needs to regulate insurance companies just as harshly as it regulates doctors. And insurance companies have NO right to decided what is medically necessary. The insurance companies literally run everything and they convince patients that the doctor is the problem when in reality its the insurance that collects your premiums and then doesn't pay.
On one hand, I agree with you that insurance companies need to be better regulated and shouldn’t be allowed to just not pay for your care after they take your premiums. It’s disgusting that they think they’re allowed to deny medical care to people for any reason, and I do think they show blatant favoritism by not covering female-specific or trans-related procedures and not covering mental healthcare, and I wouldn’t be surprised if women and LGBT people had higher insurance premiums across the board, just like how companies often pay women less than men for the same job, and charge women more than men for what is functionally the same product. On the other hand, the government is also guilty of denying medical care when they have no right to do so. Especially in the case of reproductive rights and trans rights. There are some places where you can’t get tubal ligation or birth control until you’ve had a child, or you need your spouse’s permission, and certain procedures and medications have been made illegal to use just because they can potentially be used for abortions, even if that’s not the intended use for it. Not to mention that abortion bans often don’t have any exceptions for cases of rape/coercion, or underage pregnancies, or even life-threatening complications. And in the case of trans people, there are some places where gender-affirming surgery or hormone therapy are inaccessible or even illegal, even though those surgeries are morally the same as any other cosmetic surgery done for mental health reasons, and hormone therapy has many uses and not all of them are transgender-related. It’s disgusting that certain people just aren’t allowed to get the care they need because a bunch of bigots are blatantly trying to punish them for existing.
As someone who works doing prior authorizations every day i can tell you they constantly deny claims that are supposed to be approved because they are aware the vast majority of people won't appeal. It was done to me!! My doctor uploaded a 118 page document filled with sooo much proof that i needed a continuous glucose monitor and they denied it, when i called to appeal they said "oh but here's the proof why was it denied? I said well you're the insurance you tell me 🤦🏻♀️
@baph0met They set some guidelines, but otherwise do not care or police what they do. Not that it is good if the gov controls it all, but they shouldnt allow insurances to do whatever they please. I used to work in the field, its frustrating trying to get the government to step in even when there has been a clear violation.
@@anyght The insurance companies lobby the government, they have a mutually beneficial relationship. The only good choice would be to allow competition, but the government and the oligopolietic insurance companies wouldn't like that since they would get crushed by the competition.
As a person with an invisible disability, thank you doctor Mike. For encouraging people to Advocate they’re needs. I can’t count how many times that doctors have overlooked Depression, Anxiety, some minor health problems, just because they say “It’s just your disability” then I go “Oh, ok, you’re right.” Disabilities like mine come with mental health problems and doctors need to be more Aware. So then minor things that are actually more big won’t be overlooked.
Wow. When Zach described downplaying the pain and symptoms because of the denial of how bad it really is, that hit home. Being afraid of the fact that it's not going away, or that no one understands what you're going through. That's a hard thing to face. Especially with pain!
i need a counter of how many times Zach said "soft boy" or "boy" to refer to himself 🤣. But to be honest, fantastic episode, great chemistry between the two of you, but also the willingness to hear each other and validate each other's experiences. This is one of my favorite podcast episodes ever.
Chronic illness and the “punting” for yeeeaaarrrsss so you don’t have a diagnosis but you struggle daily to live up to the expectations of families, friends and employment (bosses, colleagues, clients) when you’re literally lifting your legs with your hands into your car to go to work every morning through tears because you’re in so much pain. People start losing patience and become frustrated and irritated after awhile, even the ones closest to us. A decade, leads to another decade and crippling medical debt and thru dozens of doctors of all different specialties who PUNT over and over after a couple of visits and a couple really expensive negative tests, and if they can’t figure it out it’s ALWAYS “You’re depressed.” Yes, doctor , as a matter of fact I am depressed because I feel so horrific everyday that my life is in ruins and because you don’t know what it is and can’t diagnose it and you don’t care to invest anymore time into helping me….you say that it’s because I’m sad and throw some Prozac at me and wipe your hands of me. But far too many added some emotional abuse while they were at it They would shame me and so condescending. After the opioid epidemic, so many, when the basic test they ran didn’t show anything, THEY ACCUSED ME OF DRUG SEEKING. I didn’t ask for any pain medication EVER! I wasn’t on any pain medication aside from ibuprofen and icy hot and hot and cold packs, nothing in my urine tests ever but I was treated like an addict with full contempt and disgust from the doctor who I came to for help and I got to pay for the pleasure of being treated like a subhuman piece of garbage. People in your life even though they see you are suffering every day, if you don’t have a diagnosis, then you’re a hypochondriac, drama queen, attention seeker, lazy, etc. So even your support system are devaluing your experience and you learn to try so hard to hide your misery and you kill your self trying to keep up and not be a burden in any way, shape or form. You are essentially living a very fake life and plastering a smile on it and becoming sicker and weaker but you are giving everyone 115% of everything you have and they don’t know that every moment of the day you are so ill and exhausted and in pain and so desperate that you fantasize about ending it all because there’s no hope, help or support. You have to become this fake, smiling, normal person around everyone because you’re suffering is uncomfortable for others. You feel absolute shame 24/7, you are an embarrassment, you are abnormal, you start doubting yourself and your experience, you’re just lazy…..you’re a “soft boy”…!! After 30 years of my nightmare I was finally referred to a rheumatologist and on my first appointment he ran few tests and a month later on my second appointment, he gave me a diagnosis and that it my myriad of symptoms was absolutely textbook! I cried and cried because I felt like I was finally vindicated and validated after 30 years!!! My illness can’t be cured but it can be managed but it is a disability and I don’t feel so weak and soft and ashamed when I need to rest etc. Most people I have talked to with (especially an invisible illness)a chronic illness, condition or disability, this is their story too. The humiliation, shame, embarrassment, degradation, abuse from the medical professionals, and unbearable medical debt that went on for years to decades because they were undiagnosed and untreated and ignored by doctors who couldn’t be bothered or who’s ego was too big for them to admit they didn’t know the answer so they made me the problem and shamed me for it! Shame, shame, shame, so I totally understand why he keeps referring to himself in a depreciating manner! We all do!
Currently testing for psoriasic arthritis, after more than 10 years of dismissed symptoms, I went for a disformed toe and looking at my psoriasis, nails and aches, the doctor was like, you never mentionned these symtoms? I was like....uh, yeah, multiple times, but I was labelled hypocondriac because of complaining about these symptoms and never got blood tests or xrays taken. He was flabergasted
So sorry that you had to gone trough that! I have PSA too and was diagnosed the first time i stepped in to a reumatologist room. My GP suspected this already and send me to the specialist right away. Being called a hypocondriac when you have those symptoms....wow 🤦♀️. Hope you will get the results back soon!
I love the topic of “punting” in the medical system with people with chronic illness finding a diagnosis. I was diagnosed with severe heart disease at 24 years old after years of symptoms and doctors that just passed me along the line…. Cardiologists who completely overlooked my severe disease because it was easier to gaslit the young girl who faints and is in a wheelchair due to extreme dizziness and chronic migraines
Similar to me honestly. I’ve been passed from specialist to specialist, with them telling me I’m fat, need to lose weight, need to eat less, that it’s just my anxiety, that my symptoms are in my head, that I have pcos. Yeah, turns out I have Cushing’s syndrome from an adrenal tumor that would’ve killed me if I didn’t keep insisting to my endocrinologist that the meds he had me on for pcos weren’t working. I’m getting surgery in a little over a month to remove my adrenal glands, but the disease already triggered me to develop an autoimmune condition which I’m gonna have to deal with for the rest of my life.
As someone who works in insurance denials and appeals for a medical center in the US - he’s exactly right. Just trying to get insurance to pay on a bill once you’ve had the service can often take months, occasionally years.
I'm only a few minutes in and just want to say thank you. As someone who's found it nearly impossible to find stable healthcare, I appreciate you speaking out with your platform about this. It shouldn't be so difficult for those of us who are desperate for care to advocate for ourselves to get it. Thank you, cheers, Hannah
I get that chronic illness being undiagnosed is a systemic issue just as much as it is a personal one, but I feel like individual doctors really need to be accountable for how they gaslight. It's not hard to say "I just don't know, this might be out of my speciality" instead of taking a glance at a patient and going "must be anxiety/psychosomatic," "maybe you're a hypochondriac," "you're making it up," "don't trust Google trust me" (ok well if you keep punting us then those of us with chronic illness have no choice but to do our own research, for good or for ill). That is active gaslighting and very traumatizing for patients who have been in pain for years and been told everything is in their head. Doctors literally miss things like cancer when they gaslight patients. Just because Dr. Mike is humble and has empathy doesn’t mean all doctors do (honestly caring professions attract caring people, but they also attract emotionally predatory people too, both exist), and we can acknowledge that without minimizing how hard it is for doctors too. It's not an either or. I also really think mental health for doctors and things like compassion fatigue need to be addressed. You can't provide care if you are burnt out.
Individual doctors really do need to take serious responsibility for how often women and people of color are gaslit. I'm so thankful to have an incredible doctor who helps me advocate for tests that I may need done. But of course, once I turn 25, I'll have to find a new doctor and that absolutely terrifies me.
I talked with my chronic pain specialist and she explained that psychosomatic symptoms are real, it’s more like your brain is telling you there is/will be pain where it isn’t. They have done studies and see that the pain signals do show up on scans. I agree that doctors use it to just brush you off and gaslight those with chronic pain
"when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras" "Well it's got stripes--" "It's horses. You're not special enough to have a zebra" "How do you know?" "Because zebras are rare" "How do you know they're rare if you never test for them" "It's horses"
As a chronic pain suffer, I have watched Zach’s journal for a while. I admire him so much. He is honest about his illness, his level of pain, and struggle with his treatments and living with his diagnosis ❤❤
I live in Canada. Our healthcare system is in crisis. People can’t find a GP, specialists are booking often years in advance, and our nurses are leaving due to abuse and stress. I’ve had cancer, and was young when it was diagnosed. I had very good doctors in the past who rushed me into treatment. However, now my current doctor doesn’t like to “touch” patients, so a physical is out of the question. She doesn’t check for anything, including skin cancer. Very sick people are not getting the help they need, and if you happen to get very sick, you’re on your own. I’m a big fan of your channel, and I wish there were more doctors like you in the world.
It’s gotten so bad there are people even going to the states for treatment and just dealing with the bill because access it better there now than it is here…
@@saram3449I do that. Never, ever thought it was ever something I'd need to do, but now have had multiple family members have to go to the USA and pay out of pocket.
I'm a Try Guys fan with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and Zach is just a huge sense of comfort for me, I often call him my twin (we have a LOT in common). I love the representation he's bringing for the disabled community and the experiences he's shedding light on.
As a person with an invisible disability, I agree with you. Major props to Zach for representing the disabled community. I was telling my parents about Zach’s story. I might have been uplifted by this story.
My mother who is Korean has had previous health problems that were minor, but she would mention these to her doctor and the doctor didn't think anything of it. She kept feeling these symptoms and changed doctors, the new doctor told her that she actually has a cancer in her colon. She went through chemo and got the cancer out, but it came back after a year. The second time she wasn't doing well, she had constant pain and she went to the hospital to get the cancer out and it was a success. My mother after being in the hospital for 43 days died from surgical complications. Apparently, the nurses gave my dad a sign off paper to do some operations on her even though the doctor knew nothing about it and she didn't even tell my dad what it was for, they cut an artery which caused her to lose so much blood. This was during COVID and so she hardly got looked at by nurses and doctors, and she died. I do blame her previous doctor for not helping her and could've seen the cancer earlier. The hospital I feel like was responsible on how she was neglected and died in their watch when it was suppose to be an routine operation. I think because she was Korean in a mostly white community, she was treated differently and not taken seriously. I miss her, and wish everything went right like it was suppose to.
This happened to a friend of mine as well. And the worst part is he got covid while in the hospital and because of that the hospital faced zero consequences for malpractice or anything because of the covid. All of us were and are beyond livid. He was murdered plain and simple. The doctor knew he had screwed up, tried to cover it up, and then hid behind the covid when my friend died. I’m so sorry for your loss.
Before I was diagnosed w endormetriosis, the general dr on the floor at the time (in er for a bartholins abscess) tried to send me home with ibuprofen - after being told I'm allergic. I live in Ontario, and punting 100% happens here as well. I was just so fortunate to have a gynecologist willing to help me, I don't have a family dr anymore, and still hes been the only familiar face I keep seeing. I am so lucky to have him in the limited time I try to spend at the hospital.
This was an EXCELLENT listen on so many levels for so many different reasons. Both Mike and Zac are interesting, educated, wonderful conversationalists and it was a joy to hear them just sit down and chat uninterrupted. Thank you to both of you for sharing!
As someone with chronic pain who has also done academic research into patient-doctor relationships in chronic pain cases, the whole chapter talking about Zach’s chronic condition is one of the most nuanced and compassionate discussions of the topic that I’ve heard! Great to see 😍
I have EDS and I'm being tested for several muscular skeletal conditions. It took 10 years for someone to notice that my whole body was falling apart and that it wasn't 20 individual problems but one genetic issue. I've always found Zack's story inspiring I relate to it a lot. I think I'm at the point where I would sting my back with bees if they told me I would feel better
I have the trifecta of EDS, dysautonomia and MCAS and I got lucky because my rheumatologists husband has the same diagnosis which is why she recognized it
@@craftingemily It's weird that they would dismiss EDS _Because_ you have POTS. I'm not a doctor but I was under the impression that they often went hand in hand.
@@mayaenglish5424 yes they do often. But apparently I didn’t have enough EDS symptoms for a further investigation. My GP differs and is still trying to find a doc for me.
This interview is how every conversation on a first date should be - even if you or the other person don't find each other attractive. If you get the sense that your date isn't into you, with no possibility of a second date, then give them the best conversation they've ever had.
Love this video. It's been so good to see Zach's chronic pain content and hearing him talk about how his experience with it has progressed. I finally got diagnosed with fibromyalgia in February and it took almost a decade of being ignored by doctors and told that I was too young or imagining it. The system is just incredibly unhelpful for people with chronic pain
Same, took almost 20 years for my Fibromyalgia diagnosis and being punted, ignored, and gaslit by doctors made it a really hard journey. I feel for all our chronic pain and illness people out there. ❤
Just saw a video by the New York Times about chronic pain and drugs and comments were like "wow must be getting bad if mainstream outlet like that is reporting it" Doctors ignored my friend's severe pain for month. Told him it was old age and arthritis. Ir was stage four metastasized cancer actually.
I have SLE and it took years to be diagnosed while being misdiagnosed, called a hypochondriac, and a drug seeking accusation. I've had lupus now for 20 years this month and I've had to fight every step of the way. Fortunately, I now have an excellent medical team that listens and is equally unwilling to just let it go. It has made all the difference in the world. It has also taken a mixture of prescription drugs, OTC drugs, herbal medications and diet. But in the process it took a LOT of trial and error to be my best self. It just takes determination, fighting for yourself, good doctors willing to fight with you.
18:05 This is hitting me right in the heart today. It’s so bittersweet to hear Zach talk about this phenomenon. You really do just want to leave it to someone else. Because it’s exhausting and dehumanizing and horrible. You want to be able to trust the doctor’s to do everything you need. But they don’t know your body like you do. I really needed to hear this conversation.
Honestly so glad you brought up women being overlooked I have hEDS and postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome I overlooked my symptoms for years like zach said you hear you just have a bad back and trick yourself into it and literally blamed myself for my POTS and was told I was just anxious honestly so happy zach talked about women’s side and the chronic illness side of the healthcare system
because of this dude I got diagnosed with AS by a rheumatologist after 15 years of being ignored by dozens (literally) of different specialist because the symptoms made no sense to them, and just told me everything because I was overweight. Thanks for sharing!
I am a mental health professional and wanted to say, the way Dr Mike talks to people on this show is an amazing example of reflective listening and unconditional positive regard. That bedside manner alone would make a him damn good therapist. Man of many talents
Thanks, Doctor Mike, for having muh main man Zach on your show. I am not a typical Try Guys subscriber: I'm in my 60's and retired due to disability after a long career in legal aid. But the guys and their friends make me laugh and laugh; I came to care for them, and I stuck around. When Zach talks about his AS and his experience with the healthcare system as a young white male with money, I grow more uneasy about my diabetes and mental health care: I'll be eligible for Medicare soon, and I'm unsure how things are going to work. So I greatly appreciated the intelligent, informed conversation that y'all had here. "Eternal Sunshine" still haunts me, years and years after I saw it. It's a must-see. Go on Zach's show, Mike, you'll have fun - hopefully you'll meet Kelsey Darragh there, she is a goddess and I want to be like her when I grow up. Best wishes from Tampa, Florida.
This makes me want to share this with all doctors dealing with chronic illness patients who dismiss ppls symptoms. These are people who live with their symptoms and may even know as much or even more about their conditions than the doctors and they should not be treated like the regular flu patient who has no idea what the difference between a virus and a bacterial infection.
I love this and found it so deeply fascinating. I’m a healthcare worker (CNA, DSP, CRMA) a major try guys fan and have had my fair share of awful experiences as a patient. Being written off or told I’m lying about my symptoms, being told a true physical ailment (POTS) was nothing more than my anxiety disorder until a cardiologist saw me and gave my PCP hell, and still she thought it was “all in my head.” I’ve had several encounters that have been uncomfortable and frustrating, so as a healthcare worker I strive to make sure all of my patients feel heard and seen and have me advocating for them as hard as they do for themselves. So glad to hear this conversation being had.
I needed this desperately today. I’ve been dealing with chronic pain and fatigue for a year since a car accident. I’ve been ‘punted’ so many times it’s ridiculous. It’s traumatic to have to relive the accident to each medical professional I see and to not have any one on your side it seems like. Sometimes you just want to stop trying to find a solution and live in pain forever.
I started to be my own doctor. Paid out of pocket for imaging. Radiologists do most diagnosis. Then sought out specific specialists and travelled to them. I'm not rich, it was for survival.
That was a great video! I have been a long-time follower of the Try Guys and while Zack plays a goof ball at times on his videos he is really smart about the business he is in. I really appreciate the fact that Dr Mike retains his ethics, in a world where almost everything is for sale he has not sold out (as far as I know). I am new to his channel so I am going back and watching older videos and find it a very interesting way to spend my time.
As a disabled Brit who relies on the NHS, there's a pretty simple explanation as to why the NHS is falling apart: the Tories (Conservative Party). They have openly spoken about wanting a system like America's in the past, and have even sold off some parts of the NHS to private companies, though it's free at point of access so most people don't care. The NHS is chronically underfunded to a depressing degree. The Tories don't care about funding it more, though, because they are mostly wealthy (even if their voters range in wealth) and can get good private healthcare. The point is to make it as "profitable" as possible by stripping everything "unnecessary". It is not to help patients, it's to make the government money. The fact that those patients have paid with taxes, that they will continue to pay taxes and work and improve the economy...that's not interesting to the Tories. That's long-term thinking. They are a party of short-term thinking - what will make me the most money *now*? what will get me the most voters *now*?. It's never about the future, and if you speak about the future, especially in realistic/uncertain/cynical ways, then you are basically told off by them for being a Debbie Downer leftist pessimist and lacking hope. This is the story of Brexit. The remainers said that it would have obvious consequences, the leavers (most Tories, but not all surprisingly) said that we were "remoaners" and it wouldn't be that bad. Fast forward to today and most people regret voting leave. You just don't win by telling people the truth. You don't keep pulling the wool over your supporters' eyes if you let them see that the NHS/social care/etc. in the UK is falling apart. The Tories would never tax billionaires, because they are friends with the billionaires. They get hired by these companies after leaving politics and get massive salaries. Which means that they can say that the money isn't there, while decimating any kind of government funded programme that would help its poorest and most vulnerable citizens. Healthcare, education, benefits, everything. But no one cares. They voted for the Tories, and they personally can't be bad and contributing to this. They have never experienced the issues, and if they do, they blame the NHS, not the government underfunding it. I regularly hear people grumbling about how the NHS is bad and failing and long waits and whatever, but they never talk about the systemic underfunding that causes that. There won't be protests, because it's been happening for decades and no one cares. The Tories are just going to keep on playing Jenga until they find the block that makes everything fall down (and then blame it on Labour).
That is why you should support free market healthcare ran by insurance companies. Because you currently rely on politicians to make the system right. Obviously politicians are not incentivized to make the system right so why would you suppose they would do so in the future? There should be no healthcare policy. Remove healthcare policy, then you remove political influence from healthcare. At least allow others to opt out of the NHS through tax deductions.
I really like that he stressed advocating for yourself. As someone with an autoimmune disease I’m sick of my condition being seen as a test result. I know how my condition makes me feel, and I know when something is off.
He’s right about self advocacy. Every time I meet a new dr I tell them listen, I have multiple chronic pain conditions and have learned that I have to advocate for myself and to do that I have to ask good questions. To ask good questions I have to do research. I make very clear that I respect their experience as a doctor (even if I don’t have enough data at this point to know If I do) but I am not one that will just take medication prescribed to me. I want to know why. How does it work. What are the side effects. Why this instead of something else. What are lifestyle changes I can make to put off or work in harmony with the meds. I do not substitute my drs with google. But I do research so I can ask questions. If they’re not ok with that, we are not a good fit. I err on the side of being really respectful but if I get push back, I remind them that I only do research so I can understand. I look for another doctor if they don’t play ball.
Australia definitely got worse after COVID. I've been going to the same medical practice for ten years. They were bulk billing for that entire time, until 2021. During 2021 their urgent care stopped bulk billing. 2022 they stopped bulk billing for appointments after 4pm. 2023 bulking billing is only available for people under 16 and concession card holders. Appointments went from being available three days in advance to three weeks. My Doctor is always so over booked as of this year she has been fifteen-thirty minutes late to everyone of my appointments, she never used to be late. It's just very obvious how much the system is struggling, so many doctors I've been seeing for years have stopped taking new patients completely.
While I understand it's a system issue, I can't believe it's not also a doctor issue. There's just bad doctors out there. I've been a victim of natural medicine as a kid because my mother doesn't trust a lot of healthcare at all--it was tooth and nail ripping to get her to do vaccines for Covid--but I've also dealt with doctors that just weren't giving me the care I expected and needed. It's made me very skeptic and jaded but also has made me develop a lot of anxiety around my health. On the flip side, I have had good doctors doing the best they can under this system, some have jumped hoops for me, so I know they're out there. I just wish that we weren't waiting on the next horrible thing to happen for a change in the system to occur.
Would be cool to have zack and mike talk with health care experts from around the world. Like Norway, Australia, Canada, Germany etc. people who understand how their systems work and how similar but different systems function and the pros, cons and things that could be better and how (if they know a solution).
Unfortunately I am a 35 year old female who had dental surgery three years ago, started experiencing extreme chest pain, and I went to multiple doctors and none of them could help me and punted me to the next doctor. It got so bad I couldn’t move anymore from the pain eventually losing mobility. Eventually I managed to try again and managed to call to go to the emergency room and they gaslit me and told me it was all in my head and sent me to a physical rehab instead of getting me medical attention. I’m still in this situation and it’s very scary. My family were on board with this. Don’t be a woman and get sick. Sorry just heard the part when you were talking to Zach about people not believing women and heart attack symptoms. Don’t let this happen to you. Be sure you have the right people around you to advocate. When the healthcare system fails, it fails hard.
I feel the "it took a decade to get diagnosed" thing. I have been to probably 30 mental health professionals throughout my 29 years and for half of them I was saying "I think I have something like ADD" and was told no, I stopped bringing it up and my last brain doctor was like "you show signs of IADD." She put me on medication for it and I felt like I could think clearly and walk around like a normal person. I was fighting through the clouds of my disorder and had no energy left to fight for myself. I just kept going back to new counselors because after awhile I would get too exhausted to keep up a relationship with any counselor & stop going. I'm not happy with how long it took and I wish I could go back and show all the counselors and psychiatrists who just said I was depressed & anxious because of PTSD and make them look at their mistake. I'm not nearly as depressed or anxious now that I can get out of bed and think! It's been a year almost and my life is so different, I can be a regular mother to my son and I am back to doing things for fun, I'm even teaching my boy how to swim and we are going out on the lake. It's like a curse has been lifted. I'm just so thankful I get to function!
Every month when I pick up my Adderall the pharmacist, pharmacist tech and I lament over the difficulties of getting it. And that's my mildest issue. I put off getting spinal surgery that I should have gotten sooner because the system was frustrating me, and I just figured "fight through the pain" because I didn't want to deal with the system. It took working so many doubles at my vet hospital during the pandemic which caused my body to break, and a mom who just told me to shut up was taking me to the doctor. Months of PT, knowing I was probably going to do surgery, and discussing it with my PT. I have done everything short of surgery to fix my back at that point, I knew it was my only option, and I didn't come to that decision lightly. I'm so grateful that I found the right doctors, and they razz me. For a post-op check, I came in in a brace because a cat bit me and I had to have my hand at an angle to reduce the swelling. He just rolled his eyes and said he was glad he went into human medicine, his patients don't bite like mine do. 🤣🤣
I thought it was so interesting when Zach said he didn’t want to know or think about it. I get it ! I totally do! But as a women with two undiagnosed chronic conditions. I have now completed a PhD and have become an academic who I doing research to try to find the answers that we don’t have ! It’s hard and can be very emotional, but my hope is my research may one day help me and others
Didn’t know Zach is a bit younger than the other try guys. About the same age as Dr Mike. Fun conversation about medicine, the trust with doctors, and the problems with healthcare. I like this episode is edited to sound more continuous than some of the shorter ones. I think it’s ok that every episode’s length can be different. I love the older longer ones. But this is still good. 👍
Thank you for doing this episode. Love you korndiddy!!! I have also had troubles with the healthcare industry and was 26 weeks pregnant before we were able to figure that out. Thank you for always encouraging people to speak up and communicate more with their providers.
I'm a Canadian, and our system is also broken- especially post pandemic. I've been "punted" around for over 20 years, being dismissed or misdiagnosed, but I am grateful that I did not have to spend any money along the way. My GP told me she has over 1500 patients in her care. No wonder she doesn't spend time to figure out what is wrong with me.
The number scale at the hospital sucks. I agree with Zach, I have a high pain tolerance because I have chronic pain so when I'm injured it's almost always like at most a 3 for me but is off the charts for others. I had a C-section and it really wasn't that bad for me and my nurses were just so confused as to why I just refused to take pain meds as often as they wanted me to. When the other moms in the other rooms had tremendous pain. My recovery was fantastic and I'm actually the weirdo in that. But it didn't mean I wasn't just cut open. The scale is so imperfect.
As someone who also has a chronic pain condition (fibromyalgia) I've heard from multiple different people and in a booklet I read I got from the rheumatologist that diagnosed me that the wrong type of exercise is worse than doing no exercise at all
As a Canadian, the US health care is terrifying. I can't imagine having to pay to consult a doctor, let alone pay to go to an hospital if I'm actually sick.
They charged me for an ambulance once, I said "wow 75 seems steep" so they apologized and said don't worry about it. It won't effect credit and they don't follow up. So I never payed despite a bill.
We pay differently and we have our own problems, but yes, we don't have to choose between our health vs being able to pay our bills at the end of the month.
Even worse, doctors refusing to refill medications if you don't see them. For insulin, birth control, high blood pressure meds. It is so expensive to see the doctor and then so expensive to pay for the meds. Some people can't afford both.
@@tinaet4909 you realize doctors aren't the ones I. Charge of you ACTUALLY getting meds that way? They won't prescribe because they could lose their license over it. They have to follow protocols. It's not the doctor that's the problem here. Not to mention, medications should be monitored. I'm sorry but it's unrealistic to think the majority of people use their meds properly/ medications don't cause symptoms even long term ones that need interventions.
I love the fact that you had the conversation about the science/medicine behind the eat the menu effects on Keith’s body because I’ve always been fascinated by statistics and the science behind food and as someone who makes homemade pasta and loves to cook it’s fun explaining the science/process to other people!
It has been over 20 years. I'm so tired of trying to figure it out on my own with doctors that don't want to take the time to figure this out. Slowly, but surely, my life has shrunk year after year. I have no more fight in me. Doctors should be fighting for their patients, too. If one doesn't know, find someone who does. Don't just let your patient languish in pain and debilitating fatigue until they just don't fight anymore.
As someone with 10+ chronic conditions that i developed as a 16 yr old it was so easy (and I was so so fortunate to have a nurse of a mom) to advocate for me and fight for me when I didn’t know what to do but now as a 23 yr old that transition to advocating for myself talking with insurance paying my own medical bills was such a hard transition. I’m fully disabled had to drop out of college developed paralysis and needed round the clock care from my parents the medical system sucks!! It took me 18 yr to be diagnosed with something I was born with and had symptoms of as a child and I’m still fighting for answers for some things. Idk what the answer is but something needs to change
“You or your loved ones” -Dr Mike In referring to who best advocates for patients my father sat in my gyno appointments and told my Dr “this is not normal, she is in intense amounts of pain, this is not okay” I am forever indebted to him, my mother, and drs who listened for my endometriosis diagnosis
I majorly appreciate the conversation about low-impact exercise. All my life I had knee braces because I was running and jumping which my my knee so angry. I’m trying to find something that won’t do that and doesn’t require going out in 100+ degree heat.
Tip: if you turn on Audio Description when watching your show, it basically turns TV and movies into audiobooks. You can do whatever you want, and not miss much by not looking.
Regular boulderer and beginning runner here. Would recommend bouldering after all, just make sure to climb down. Or get into top-rope climbing with a buddy: that'll give you social motivation and reduce the fall impact.
Phlebotomy in the UK: My ex-husband was heavily tattooed, from head to toe. He was having blood drawn one time when the Phlebotomist said that it was more difficult, & she said, going back to her training, they try to get volunteers with a darker skin colour & tattooed people to come have their blood drawn by students, as it will be a situation that every phlebotomist will come across (likely daily) that's more challenging than drawing from lighter skinned individuals.
Idk “no one is responsible for you expect for you”… I feel like that’s part of the problem. We as people can’t rely solely on ourselves and need the support of community, yet our medical system and society just reinforces those values. We even see dr mike do it here, now, in real time. I think if we could come together as a community and weren’t forced to act so isolated maybe we could get somewhere medically. Look at what tiktok has done for the neurodivergent community
I see what you're saying, and I agree we need community. At the end of the day though, it all starts with you. Nobody can do your physical therapy for you, nobody stop you from choosing a bad diet. A community can support you, and help you access resources, but at the end of the day, you have to make the choice to make positive changes in your own life.
Maybe if physicians actually actively listened, squashed their biases & stopped going to “mental health” as soon as a few tests were “negative”, people wouldn’t feel desperate & get sucked in by scams . I told multiple mds very specific symptoms & not a single one quoted my description of “feels like legs lit on fire from waste down & like I’m walking in quicksand with bricks chained to my legs.” Pretty descriptive, yet my chart ends up saying “vague symptoms.” Years later tgey find a chronic nerve impingement in lumbar due to worsening arthritis & disc disease. If someone has no advocate, no family & cognitive issues, severe stressors, they continually ask for assistance & are told sorry we’re outpatient we can’t help you, your not sick enough, you weren’t inpatient, & you’re trying to NOT end up inpatient, when severe crushing fatigue (post exertional malaise) is one of your main symptoms, eventually you just have no more energy to fight left anymore. Also, the “I did all the tests (no you didn’t, & possibly the science hasn’t caught up yet), it must be your mental health (mind body connection exists but not at all to the degree that it’s charted as a diagnosis, of course if you already have a MH diagnosis it’s convenient). Here’s the thing, physicians are very driven typically type A personalities & “losing” or “failing” just isn’t an option, so rather than admitting they aren’t sure or the science just hasn’t caught up yet, their ego can be protected when they’re able to blame it on something the patient already has, or that can’t actually be ruled out as a cause (mental health symptoms are frequently related to physical issues but it’s easier to place the onus on the patient & not do the digging. OR label the patient as hypochondriac because they say they searched something on the internet because they weren’t getting answers & came across something that checks all the boxes & they’re interested in exploring that possibility. Doctors-just because you haven’t figured it out yet, or maybe science hasn’t caught up yet, it doesn’t mean it’s mental health. Does mental health cause swollen lymph nodes, fevers, rashes, hair loss, oscillopsia, random sudden cognitive fluctuations, aphasia, etc….. then maybe get a diagnosis of invisible illness with no cause & you’re told to get used to how life is going to be now. MS was initially hysterical paralysis & now we’re looking at an actual cause. Also, maybe think bigger picture & ask questions about patient environment, lifestyle, stop completely running out things just because there aren’t 100 research studies on it. Reactivated viruses, mold toxicity, conditions that are said to be rare that may not actually be rare, people just haven’t gotten diagnosed because Dr’s are taught “when you hear hooves think horses, not zebras.” Just some thoughts, from a chronically ill nurse, that now has medical trauma due to gaslighting & can’t schedule an appointment without having a panic attack (especially new physician). If “the system” is always used as the reason for why these issues occur, will anyone ever address biases. Everyone has them & very few physicians/nurses actually take the time to examine them. Doing so is a start in the right direction. It’s at least something, instead of just waiting for a “broken” system to get fixed. 🤷♀️
I def relate/agree with zach. Working out isn't always an easy thing to have as a habit esp when you have another illness or issue. When you're already in pain, fatigued, nauseous, etc 24/7 it's not exactly easy or something you'd want to do. People without these issues would just rest if they had them temporarily, but because they're chronic we're expected to do it all anyway work/exercise/etc
I have a rare condition that's a symptom of another genetic condition that I have. There's no official treatment for it, only suggestions. My doctor recommended one on the 'well it might help' list and it's damn near a magic bullet. It's aspirin, so there is bleeding risk, but it's a cheap and overall low risk treatment. So long as it's not overly risky or will bankrupt you for the attempt, it's worth trying.
Because my mind jumped literally to the same acronym, here's the fun wrist bones: Some (Scaphoid) Lovers (Lunate) Try (Triquetrum) Positions (Pisiform) That (Trapezium) They (Trapezoid) Can't (Capitate) Handle (Hamate) But I'm glad to see you guys discussing our ongoing healthcare system issues. (Burn out is very real indeed and so is the staff shortages - not only in physicians, nurses, but also all the healthcare adjacent personnel as well be it PT, OT, etc.)
What it sounds like Zach has is Von Willebrand Disease, which means you have low Von Willebrand factor. I have it too and it’s all the same things; you need to be careful if you’re having surgery and being hospitalized (and it causes excessive menstrual bleeding if you’re AFAB), and you can use a nasal spray called desmopressin before surgeries and stuff to lessen the likelihood of excessive bleeding. It is chronically underdiagnosed because the symptoms are usually missed in most people, unless you have a surgery where you bleed a lot or you’re AFAB and have menorrhagia. Hopefully Zach can get a diagnosis because getting diagnosed changed my life!
I love how they’re both super respectful when they disagree with each other and don’t automatically get hyper defensive. I wish I knew more people like them. 😊
After 14 years of testing, scans, multiple doctors and specialists, physical therapy (that didn't work), I was finally diagnosed with hEDS which could not be diagnosed through all of the testing I went through nor could I have been diagnosed through genetic testing. The Healthcare system in general, across the world, needs to do better by its patients, and I completely empathize with Zach.
If you have hEDS, keep an eye out for POTS and MCAS... I started out with a POTS diagnosis and discovered hEDS from there and finally figured out that I'm probably MCAS too (as following a low histamine diet has made symptoms much better). ❤ fellow zebra
On the off chance that Zach or someone else with chronic pain reads this, the single thing that changed my life dealing with chronic pain from hip dysplasia for over 15 years was to stop trying for a solution and accept the cards I was dealt. NOT that you stop trying treatments, but when you relabel your current pain as your “baseline” instead of pain and learn to be content with that, then anything worse is “below your baseline” and anything better is a pleasant surprise, but the disappointment when there’s no improvement fades away. I feel so grateful for the ability to be in control of how I feel about my life that I don’t focus on the pain, and when I don’t focus on it, it becomes part of everyday life. It may not work for everyone, but it worked for me and it’s worth a try. Our words are powerful, even when they’re in our heads. Good luck to everyone dealing with chronic pain!
I previously worked for the NHS in the UK before being diagnosed with an invisible, long term disability. The issue in the UK is that our doctors aren’t willing to trust any research that is done outside of the UK without corroboration from a UK organisation… but they also don’t like doing medical research trials on patients who would otherwise live without treatment despite the severity of their symptoms. I’ve been in a 3 year battle with various doctors to try and get approval for at-home saline infusion but no one is willing to “try something new “ despite this treatment being commonly used for my condition.
Speaking from the UK as a nurse, our problem is that the NHS is not been funded enough for how much it is needed. The demand for healthcare is so much higher than the supply almost. We are understaffed because the government are not treating us properly. Yes healthcare is free for us technically but it can take so long to get seen or treated as the expectation is becoming higher and higher with the advances in healthcare technology and information. I have no idea how these issues are going to be fixed worldwide but no method seems to work clearly. Love your videos by the way!
Just a slight note on Lyme disease Dr. Mike, the antibiotic treatments don't work on many cases of chronic Lyme (e.g., my aunt has gone all the usual routes and still has the effects of Lyme decades later). This is why, I imagine, the bee sting woman used the bee stings. You'd be nuts to not use antibiotics in the first place.
I’m chronically ill and have severe chronic pain and trying through the healthcare system is a nightmare. Hearing Zach talk about it makes me feel a bit better in that I’m not alone. I’m the opposite with learning about conditions, though. The second I’m diagnosed, I wanna learn every little thing about my diagnosis (probably because I’m autistic) and I ask my doctors everything I can. I do agree with the wanting a magic bullet treatment. I’m hoping to get a daith piercing soon as a desperate attempt to help my chronic migraines since my migraine medicine isn’t working too well and it takes forever to get an appointment with my specialist. I figured either it helps at all or it doesn’t, either way I get a shiny new piercing :’)
I (a woman) was diagnosed over 40 years ago in a couple months by a very wonderful woman doctor. Also diagnosed with ulcerative colitis in the same timeframe by another wonderful woman doctor. My wonderful woman gynecologist got things started and they all coordinated. Edit: ulcerative colitis became colon cancer a few years ago, colon removed by a wonderful woman surgeon. Yearly colonoscopies paid off!
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I am so thankful for zach and mike acknowledging people of color and women. Earlier this year i went to my doctor for extreme knee pain. I had to have coworkers assist me with standing up. By the time i got to an orthopedic doctor, i had to fight to have surgery. Which the surgery ended up fixing the problem. Not only that but the condition i have is so rare that they are using my surgery footage to teach med students and surgeons. The sad part is if I had been referred to the proper specialists ten years ago I would never had to have surgery. The reason i couldnt go see the specialist? Insurance and age.
If you don't mind sharing- What kind of surgery did you end up having/what was the diagnosis?
A hospital I went to did the same thing in 2018 with my Sinus Surgery. My ENT told me that my case was case in particular was so rare and unique that it was kept for studies to med students. I did ask for the footage of the surgery and they never replied back so I took it as a no lol. But I'm glad that my case is being used to help the med students to this day. I hope that your condition will find a cure or treatment and I'm so sorry you had to go through this! I wishing you all the best!
Well, I'm a white guy. And the Emergency Room Docter sent me home.....after weeks of misery found out, I had a vocal cord paralyzed, and it could be deadly. Sooooo.
@@morphius3162001 I hope you're feeling better. My ENT doctor told me that had I never got the surgery or my sinuses treated, I would have died from meningitis in a short matter of time😩
@morphius3162001 is your point that its awful it happened to you as well, or that "it happened to me, a white guy, so your experience as a woman and/or person of color is invalid."?
Because the tone is a bit vague here.
As someone who's heart doctor said "You have something wrong we just don't know but you're young so you'll be fine" since high school. I have a heart condition but no one will look into it enough for me to get a diagnoses because I'm young and healthy in their eyes. I am thankful for you both acknowledging the problems
That's the same for me with my migraines and chronic pain issues. They're always like, "Oh you're young so you'll grow out of it". And I'm just sitting there like...yeah but I'm suffering NOW. It's so stupid
I’ve had chronic pain, due to some botched surgeries that started when I was in my 20s, I had that a ton. I’ve also had doctors right off a symptom because of a past diagnosis, or they had a similar issue, and it’s turned in to an argument/debate about why ordering a simple blood test would shut me up. Now in my late 40s it’s gotten better, aside from the whole pain med crackdown.
I feel this in my soul and I’m so sorry. The medical system is really weirdly uncomfortable with saying “you have a major problem! We just don’t know what it is.” Unfortunately, they don’t get paid to be detectives. They’re mostly doing triage, tbh.
I literally had to research (once I had the internet lol) and fight for YEARS to find out my diagnosis. And it was horrible. I don’t wish it on anyone.
@@4wayStopEnforcementwhat did you find?
yup. it took me six years to be diagnosed with pots and then i was only able to get treatment because my symptoms were so bad i couldn’t function anymore. and even then i had doctors tell me they were shocked that i got sick “out of nowhere” like…. i’ve been telling you i’m sick for YEARS you just wouldn’t listen
Zach K. and Dr Mike seem to be on the same level. Their intellect and wisdom complement each other well.
They just seems like good friends
Libtards
Same guy. Waaaaay different font. Like dr mike is times new roman. Zach is wingdings.
I think doc is very good at meeting people at their level
@@thisiscaitexactly my thought
The fact that the American health care is called an industry just explains the problem in itself.
Shouldn't be able to profit off of people's illness (looking at the ins. Not the workers who bust ass to keep us well and alive)
We have turned over control of the entire field of medicine to insurance companies. Our health decisions are ultimately determined by for profit companies not doctors. It's shameful
@@ecokrazykinda agree but at the same time we wouldn’t have many of the medical achievements we have if there was no monetary incentive for companies to develop them
@@lolzman122 Most innovations aren't born out of profit motives. They're born out of need or human curiosity. The profit motive generally tends to get in the way of innovation.
@@brandonpitt8384you have a very optimistic view of the world buddy. Companies fund new research only on the premise that the resulting patent will make them money. Individual Researchers do the research for betterment of the world but still they would only do it if there was sufficient salary for their family there. Just the truth.
As a chonky woman - it took 20 years and moving to a country with universal healthcare to get an MRI ordered to find out that I had a birth defect that caused malformed and _missing_ spinal discs from my mid back down that was causing serious back pain.. obviously it was because of my weight, or the pain was being caused by PCOS or whatever else it could be handed off as. Once I found out - my docs and I could put together a pain management plan, physio and massage therapy that now lets me function without being in constant pain. After living in Europe for 20 years (and yes there are issues there as well) and moving back to the US the state of healthcare scares the hell out of me.
😮 I hope you getting all the care you need!!!!
So glad you got answers to your chronic pain. Massage therapy is a powerful tool for me as well in managing chronic pain. Sadly, I no longer have it covered under my insurance plan. Looking forward to having it again sometime in the future. It's nearly as strong / effective as opioids for me, that's how good it is!
Oh boy I can relate to this! Like yes, obviously I understand that my weight has an effect, but there is more than just that! I am so thankful for my former family doctor ordered an MRI (and has in the past as well)! We found out I had a degenerative disease the first time, and the most recent time I had a significant herniated disk that required surgery. The surgery was scheduled relatively quickly, and even then it got to a point when I couldn’t walk without assistance because of the disc pressing on spinal cord. The only reason I don’t see him anymore is because I still live in the town I went to college (I’m 24 lol) and don’t see myself going back to live there and driving 2 1/2 hours is a lot for one appt, though I tried to as long as I could. Thankfully I found a great primary care where I live. But man, it is hard to find people like that!
It's just sad that basically the medical systems are designed in a way where the people who are the most disadvantaged (people with comorbid conditions and rare conditions) end up suffering the longest.
I keep envisioning a system where if a patient seems too difficult to diagnose they can be filtered through a "difficult to diagnose" office that combines medical knowledge with mental health support because it's tough to not know what's making you sick.
Actually getting a medical team yo treat mental health right seems easier these days because younger people in the US seem to come with basic respect for mental health conditions that older generations didn't have.
The fact that Dr Mike is ok with letting Zach do a surgery on him makes me wonder if he ever watched him bake a cake without instructions haha
That’s what I was thinking 😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂 maybe he has never
His gentle and kind "yeah!" When Zach's walking through the steps he would have to do on him is hilarious
Off-camera voice: we could cut you and then stitch it and...
Mike (*sweating profusely*): Meh, it's boring...
😂😂😂
I can empathise with Zach's frustration. I have chronic migraine and I feel like nothing actually works and the desperation does make people want that "magic cure" ❤
I had to run through a gauntlet to get what my neurologist was trying to give me for chronic migraine. But just in the last three months I finally got Nurtec. It has been literally life changing. Good luck to you. Keep advocating and pushing for yourself.
I lived for years with horrible migraines, and even have a neurostimulator to help control them. When my husband developed celiac, we went completely gluten free. My headaches improved tremendously, and if I eat gluten now it will give me a migraine. I'm NOT saying you should stop eating gluten, but keep advocating for yourself and don't give up! Chronic pain is awful...
Totally get it I have them too tried so many things!
@@Jayjayrose16 What does iih stand for? I'm horrible with acronyms and remembering what they mean.
@@cindy7817 Thank you for not saying it's a cure-all, trying gluten-free. It made me so sick but I stuck it out for a year this see if it would help with the migraines, it didn't, know difference. But I know a couple people that it really helped with autoimmune conditions so I think it's so worth trying but with caution.
As someone with an ongoing undiagnosed health issue, I get what Zach means about 'not wanting to know anymore'. There was a point during a brain CT where I went "I hope they find a brain tumor so I just know what this!" I was sick of all the tests and scans and blood draws and elimination diets and trying solution after solution with no answers. At this point I have a web of medications and coping tools so I can get by, and I'm fine with that. I may never have answers, and even if I had them, there may still not be a solution. And I don't have the time/money/resources for endless tests and treatments.
I understand that feeling all too well! Courage for the journey ahead. There is a relief at having a diagnosis no matter how bad it is.
Yup! I stopped seeing my specialist because it’s a two hour drive and the medication they gave me had horrible side effects that don’t seem worth the little bit of help I get. I’m having more and more issues and I just told me husband it’s just not worth it. It’s not worth the stress and frustrations of going to these appointments to not get solid answers and not get help.
@@allyson6735are you the type of person that has bad side effects from almost every medication? I'm like that and it sucks because I don't have a choice to not take the medications. Wish they could discover better alternatives
same.... i feel like my symptoms are very close to chronic fatigue syndrome but it is heavily undiagnosed/ unrecognized and every doctor i meet says its all in my head 😂
Ugh so true. Just existing and coping with health issues/pain takes up so. much. mental. energy. It leaves me with no more mental capacity to get through work and normal things throughout the day.
The government needs to regulate insurance companies just as harshly as it regulates doctors. And insurance companies have NO right to decided what is medically necessary. The insurance companies literally run everything and they convince patients that the doctor is the problem when in reality its the insurance that collects your premiums and then doesn't pay.
On one hand, I agree with you that insurance companies need to be better regulated and shouldn’t be allowed to just not pay for your care after they take your premiums. It’s disgusting that they think they’re allowed to deny medical care to people for any reason, and I do think they show blatant favoritism by not covering female-specific or trans-related procedures and not covering mental healthcare, and I wouldn’t be surprised if women and LGBT people had higher insurance premiums across the board, just like how companies often pay women less than men for the same job, and charge women more than men for what is functionally the same product.
On the other hand, the government is also guilty of denying medical care when they have no right to do so. Especially in the case of reproductive rights and trans rights. There are some places where you can’t get tubal ligation or birth control until you’ve had a child, or you need your spouse’s permission, and certain procedures and medications have been made illegal to use just because they can potentially be used for abortions, even if that’s not the intended use for it. Not to mention that abortion bans often don’t have any exceptions for cases of rape/coercion, or underage pregnancies, or even life-threatening complications. And in the case of trans people, there are some places where gender-affirming surgery or hormone therapy are inaccessible or even illegal, even though those surgeries are morally the same as any other cosmetic surgery done for mental health reasons, and hormone therapy has many uses and not all of them are transgender-related. It’s disgusting that certain people just aren’t allowed to get the care they need because a bunch of bigots are blatantly trying to punish them for existing.
As someone who works doing prior authorizations every day i can tell you they constantly deny claims that are supposed to be approved because they are aware the vast majority of people won't appeal. It was done to me!! My doctor uploaded a 118 page document filled with sooo much proof that i needed a continuous glucose monitor and they denied it, when i called to appeal they said "oh but here's the proof why was it denied? I said well you're the insurance you tell me 🤦🏻♀️
They do, that's why it's so horrible. The insurance companies are basically government run, it's a fascist system of oligopolies.
@baph0met They set some guidelines, but otherwise do not care or police what they do. Not that it is good if the gov controls it all, but they shouldnt allow insurances to do whatever they please. I used to work in the field, its frustrating trying to get the government to step in even when there has been a clear violation.
@@anyght The insurance companies lobby the government, they have a mutually beneficial relationship. The only good choice would be to allow competition, but the government and the oligopolietic insurance companies wouldn't like that since they would get crushed by the competition.
As a person with an invisible disability, thank you doctor Mike. For encouraging people to Advocate they’re needs. I can’t count how many times that doctors have overlooked Depression, Anxiety, some minor health problems, just because they say “It’s just your disability” then I go “Oh, ok, you’re right.” Disabilities like mine come with mental health problems and doctors need to be more Aware. So then minor things that are actually more big won’t be overlooked.
Wow. When Zach described downplaying the pain and symptoms because of the denial of how bad it really is, that hit home. Being afraid of the fact that it's not going away, or that no one understands what you're going through. That's a hard thing to face. Especially with pain!
i need a counter of how many times Zach said "soft boy" or "boy" to refer to himself 🤣. But to be honest, fantastic episode, great chemistry between the two of you, but also the willingness to hear each other and validate each other's experiences. This is one of my favorite podcast episodes ever.
I wonder how his wife feels about marrying him when he refers to himself as a soft boy. 🤣
@@lillybarnett4027 "and this baby boy is my husband" -Maggie probably
@@mariapaz6379 omg.🤣 I wish I was married to a soft baby boy. Always wanted to be a mother lol.
Chronic illness and the “punting” for yeeeaaarrrsss so you don’t have a diagnosis but you struggle daily to live up to the expectations of families, friends and employment (bosses, colleagues, clients) when you’re literally lifting your legs with your hands into your car to go to work every morning through tears because you’re in so much pain. People start losing patience and become frustrated and irritated after awhile, even the ones closest to us. A decade, leads to another decade and crippling medical debt and thru dozens of doctors of all different specialties who PUNT over and over after a couple of visits and a couple really expensive negative tests, and if they can’t figure it out it’s ALWAYS “You’re depressed.” Yes, doctor , as a matter of fact I am depressed because I feel so horrific everyday that my life is in ruins and because you don’t know what it is and can’t diagnose it and you don’t care to invest anymore time into helping me….you say that it’s because I’m sad and throw some Prozac at me and wipe your hands of me. But far too many added some emotional abuse while they were at it They would shame me and so condescending. After the opioid epidemic, so many, when the basic test they ran didn’t show anything, THEY ACCUSED ME OF DRUG SEEKING. I didn’t ask for any pain medication EVER! I wasn’t on any pain medication aside from ibuprofen and icy hot and hot and cold packs, nothing in my urine tests ever but I was treated like an addict with full contempt and disgust from the doctor who I came to for help and I got to pay for the pleasure of being treated like a subhuman piece of garbage. People in your life even though they see you are suffering every day, if you don’t have a diagnosis, then you’re a hypochondriac, drama queen, attention seeker, lazy, etc. So even your support system are devaluing your experience and you learn to try so hard to hide your misery and you kill your self trying to keep up and not be a burden in any way, shape or form. You are essentially living a very fake life and plastering a smile on it and becoming sicker and weaker but you are giving everyone 115% of everything you have and they don’t know that every moment of the day you are so ill and exhausted and in pain and so desperate that you fantasize about ending it all because there’s no hope, help or support. You have to become this fake, smiling, normal person around everyone because you’re suffering is uncomfortable for others. You feel absolute shame 24/7, you are an embarrassment, you are abnormal, you start doubting yourself and your experience, you’re just lazy…..you’re a “soft boy”…!!
After 30 years of my nightmare I was finally referred to a rheumatologist and on my first appointment he ran few tests and a month later on my second appointment, he gave me a diagnosis and that it my myriad of symptoms was absolutely textbook! I cried and cried because I felt like I was finally vindicated and validated after 30 years!!! My illness can’t be cured but it can be managed but it is a disability and I don’t feel so weak and soft and ashamed when I need to rest etc. Most people I have talked to with (especially an invisible illness)a chronic illness, condition or disability, this is their story too. The humiliation, shame, embarrassment, degradation, abuse from the medical professionals, and unbearable medical debt that went on for years to decades because they were undiagnosed and untreated and ignored by doctors who couldn’t be bothered or who’s ego was too big for them to admit they didn’t know the answer so they made me the problem and shamed me for it! Shame, shame, shame, so I totally understand why he keeps referring to himself in a depreciating manner! We all do!
Currently testing for psoriasic arthritis, after more than 10 years of dismissed symptoms, I went for a disformed toe and looking at my psoriasis, nails and aches, the doctor was like, you never mentionned these symtoms? I was like....uh, yeah, multiple times, but I was labelled hypocondriac because of complaining about these symptoms and never got blood tests or xrays taken. He was flabergasted
that's crazy🤗🤗
My dermatologist took care of the arthritis too with the meds she prescribed.
So sorry that you had to gone trough that! I have PSA too and was diagnosed the first time i stepped in to a reumatologist room. My GP suspected this already and send me to the specialist right away. Being called a hypocondriac when you have those symptoms....wow 🤦♀️. Hope you will get the results back soon!
Shame on the people who called you a hypochondriac
@@lillybarnett4027to be fair, for every unicorn disease theres 2000 munchhausen syndromes.
Can you guys please make this a regular thing? I feel like your personalities work so well together and I could listen to this for hours :D
I love the topic of “punting” in the medical system with people with chronic illness finding a diagnosis. I was diagnosed with severe heart disease at 24 years old after years of symptoms and doctors that just passed me along the line…. Cardiologists who completely overlooked my severe disease because it was easier to gaslit the young girl who faints and is in a wheelchair due to extreme dizziness and chronic migraines
🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
Are you doing better now after being diagnosed?
@@sarahbells yes, I had an open heart surgery that took awhile to heal from, but I’m much better now thankfully
Similar to me honestly. I’ve been passed from specialist to specialist, with them telling me I’m fat, need to lose weight, need to eat less, that it’s just my anxiety, that my symptoms are in my head, that I have pcos. Yeah, turns out I have Cushing’s syndrome from an adrenal tumor that would’ve killed me if I didn’t keep insisting to my endocrinologist that the meds he had me on for pcos weren’t working. I’m getting surgery in a little over a month to remove my adrenal glands, but the disease already triggered me to develop an autoimmune condition which I’m gonna have to deal with for the rest of my life.
@@ALDCBoulevard😢
As someone who works in insurance denials and appeals for a medical center in the US - he’s exactly right. Just trying to get insurance to pay on a bill once you’ve had the service can often take months, occasionally years.
I had a baby last year in November and my OB is still in discussions with my insurance from back then 😒
I’m so glad Zac is still pushing through this love the tri guys
As a nurse and someone who suffers from a rare disease, I can really relate to this from both sides. A much well needed discussion.
I'm only a few minutes in and just want to say thank you. As someone who's found it nearly impossible to find stable healthcare, I appreciate you speaking out with your platform about this. It shouldn't be so difficult for those of us who are desperate for care to advocate for ourselves to get it. Thank you, cheers, Hannah
I get that chronic illness being undiagnosed is a systemic issue just as much as it is a personal one, but I feel like individual doctors really need to be accountable for how they gaslight. It's not hard to say "I just don't know, this might be out of my speciality" instead of taking a glance at a patient and going "must be anxiety/psychosomatic," "maybe you're a hypochondriac," "you're making it up," "don't trust Google trust me" (ok well if you keep punting us then those of us with chronic illness have no choice but to do our own research, for good or for ill).
That is active gaslighting and very traumatizing for patients who have been in pain for years and been told everything is in their head. Doctors literally miss things like cancer when they gaslight patients.
Just because Dr. Mike is humble and has empathy doesn’t mean all doctors do (honestly caring professions attract caring people, but they also attract emotionally predatory people too, both exist), and we can acknowledge that without minimizing how hard it is for doctors too. It's not an either or.
I also really think mental health for doctors and things like compassion fatigue need to be addressed. You can't provide care if you are burnt out.
Individual doctors really do need to take serious responsibility for how often women and people of color are gaslit. I'm so thankful to have an incredible doctor who helps me advocate for tests that I may need done. But of course, once I turn 25, I'll have to find a new doctor and that absolutely terrifies me.
I talked with my chronic pain specialist and she explained that psychosomatic symptoms are real, it’s more like your brain is telling you there is/will be pain where it isn’t. They have done studies and see that the pain signals do show up on scans.
I agree that doctors use it to just brush you off and gaslight those with chronic pain
"when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras"
"Well it's got stripes--"
"It's horses. You're not special enough to have a zebra"
"How do you know?"
"Because zebras are rare"
"How do you know they're rare if you never test for them"
"It's horses"
@@amazinggrapes3045
"When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
When you also see stripes, think zebras, not painted horses."
Amen! 🙌
As a chronic pain suffer, I have watched Zach’s journal for a while. I admire him so much. He is honest about his illness, his level of pain, and struggle with his treatments and living with his diagnosis ❤❤
I live in Canada. Our healthcare system is in crisis. People can’t find a GP, specialists are booking often years in advance, and our nurses are leaving due to abuse and stress. I’ve had cancer, and was young when it was diagnosed. I had very good doctors in the past who rushed me into treatment. However, now my current doctor doesn’t like to “touch” patients, so a physical is out of the question. She doesn’t check for anything, including skin cancer. Very sick people are not getting the help they need, and if you happen to get very sick, you’re on your own. I’m a big fan of your channel, and I wish there were more doctors like you in the world.
It’s gotten so bad there are people even going to the states for treatment and just dealing with the bill because access it better there now than it is here…
@@saram3449I do that. Never, ever thought it was ever something I'd need to do, but now have had multiple family members have to go to the USA and pay out of pocket.
I'm a Try Guys fan with Ehlers Danlos Syndrome and Zach is just a huge sense of comfort for me, I often call him my twin (we have a LOT in common). I love the representation he's bringing for the disabled community and the experiences he's shedding light on.
As a person with an invisible disability, I agree with you. Major props to Zach for representing the disabled community. I was telling my parents about Zach’s story. I might have been uplifted by this story.
I too have Ehlers-Danilo's Syndrome! I'm disabled because of it. I am enjoying this conversation so much
My mother who is Korean has had previous health problems that were minor, but she would mention these to her doctor and the doctor didn't think anything of it. She kept feeling these symptoms and changed doctors, the new doctor told her that she actually has a cancer in her colon. She went through chemo and got the cancer out, but it came back after a year. The second time she wasn't doing well, she had constant pain and she went to the hospital to get the cancer out and it was a success. My mother after being in the hospital for 43 days died from surgical complications. Apparently, the nurses gave my dad a sign off paper to do some operations on her even though the doctor knew nothing about it and she didn't even tell my dad what it was for, they cut an artery which caused her to lose so much blood. This was during COVID and so she hardly got looked at by nurses and doctors, and she died. I do blame her previous doctor for not helping her and could've seen the cancer earlier. The hospital I feel like was responsible on how she was neglected and died in their watch when it was suppose to be an routine operation. I think because she was Korean in a mostly white community, she was treated differently and not taken seriously. I miss her, and wish everything went right like it was suppose to.
This happened to a friend of mine as well. And the worst part is he got covid while in the hospital and because of that the hospital faced zero consequences for malpractice or anything because of the covid. All of us were and are beyond livid. He was murdered plain and simple. The doctor knew he had screwed up, tried to cover it up, and then hid behind the covid when my friend died. I’m so sorry for your loss.
My heart breaks for you. I'm so sorry that that happened.
I'm so sorry. That was medical neglect and that should have never been. Sending you love
If accurate, this is asking for a fat lawsuit or at least a very assertive complaint to the relevant ethical board. Very sorry for your loss!
So sorry...I hope peace fills you and your loves for your loss 🙏
Before I was diagnosed w endormetriosis, the general dr on the floor at the time (in er for a bartholins abscess) tried to send me home with ibuprofen - after being told I'm allergic. I live in Ontario, and punting 100% happens here as well. I was just so fortunate to have a gynecologist willing to help me, I don't have a family dr anymore, and still hes been the only familiar face I keep seeing. I am so lucky to have him in the limited time I try to spend at the hospital.
This was an EXCELLENT listen on so many levels for so many different reasons.
Both Mike and Zac are interesting, educated, wonderful conversationalists and it was a joy to hear them just sit down and chat uninterrupted.
Thank you to both of you for sharing!
As someone with chronic pain who has also done academic research into patient-doctor relationships in chronic pain cases, the whole chapter talking about Zach’s chronic condition is one of the most nuanced and compassionate discussions of the topic that I’ve heard! Great to see 😍
I have EDS and I'm being tested for several muscular skeletal conditions. It took 10 years for someone to notice that my whole body was falling apart and that it wasn't 20 individual problems but one genetic issue. I've always found Zack's story inspiring I relate to it a lot. I think I'm at the point where I would sting my back with bees if they told me I would feel better
I believe I have EDS too but it's been dismissed over and over by doctors. Haven't even been assessed. How did you get diagnosed?
I have POTS. They quickly dismissed EDS as they are closely related. But I think I have baby EDS.
I have the trifecta of EDS, dysautonomia and MCAS and I got lucky because my rheumatologists husband has the same diagnosis which is why she recognized it
@@craftingemily It's weird that they would dismiss EDS _Because_ you have POTS. I'm not a doctor but I was under the impression that they often went hand in hand.
@@mayaenglish5424 yes they do often. But apparently I didn’t have enough EDS symptoms for a further investigation. My GP differs and is still trying to find a doc for me.
This interview is how every conversation on a first date should be - even if you or the other person don't find each other attractive. If you get the sense that your date isn't into you, with no possibility of a second date, then give them the best conversation they've ever had.
Ugh i agree with this sm. Wish more people could get on this wavelength
Love this video. It's been so good to see Zach's chronic pain content and hearing him talk about how his experience with it has progressed. I finally got diagnosed with fibromyalgia in February and it took almost a decade of being ignored by doctors and told that I was too young or imagining it. The system is just incredibly unhelpful for people with chronic pain
Took me close to 20 years. And that was on top of endometriosis and PCOS. Why didn't anyone believe me? And then came the migraines!
Same, took almost 20 years for my Fibromyalgia diagnosis and being punted, ignored, and gaslit by doctors made it a really hard journey. I feel for all our chronic pain and illness people out there. ❤
Just saw a video by the New York Times about chronic pain and drugs and comments were like "wow must be getting bad if mainstream outlet like that is reporting it" Doctors ignored my friend's severe pain for month. Told him it was old age and arthritis. Ir was stage four metastasized cancer actually.
I have SLE and it took years to be diagnosed while being misdiagnosed, called a hypochondriac, and a drug seeking accusation. I've had lupus now for 20 years this month and I've had to fight every step of the way. Fortunately, I now have an excellent medical team that listens and is equally unwilling to just let it go. It has made all the difference in the world. It has also taken a mixture of prescription drugs, OTC drugs, herbal medications and diet. But in the process it took a LOT of trial and error to be my best self. It just takes determination, fighting for yourself, good doctors willing to fight with you.
18:05 This is hitting me right in the heart today. It’s so bittersweet to hear Zach talk about this phenomenon. You really do just want to leave it to someone else. Because it’s exhausting and dehumanizing and horrible. You want to be able to trust the doctor’s to do everything you need. But they don’t know your body like you do. I really needed to hear this conversation.
Honestly so glad you brought up women being overlooked I have hEDS and postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome I overlooked my symptoms for years like zach said you hear you just have a bad back and trick yourself into it and literally blamed myself for my POTS and was told I was just anxious honestly so happy zach talked about women’s side and the chronic illness side of the healthcare system
because of this dude I got diagnosed with AS by a rheumatologist after 15 years of being ignored by dozens (literally) of different specialist because the symptoms made no sense to them, and just told me everything because I was overweight. Thanks for sharing!
Love to hear it! This is why sharing our stories is so important
I am a mental health professional and wanted to say, the way Dr Mike talks to people on this show is an amazing example of reflective listening and unconditional positive regard. That bedside manner alone would make a him damn good therapist. Man of many talents
Thanks, Doctor Mike, for having muh main man Zach on your show. I am not a typical Try Guys subscriber: I'm in my 60's and retired due to disability after a long career in legal aid. But the guys and their friends make me laugh and laugh; I came to care for them, and I stuck around. When Zach talks about his AS and his experience with the healthcare system as a young white male with money, I grow more uneasy about my diabetes and mental health care: I'll be eligible for Medicare soon, and I'm unsure how things are going to work. So I greatly appreciated the intelligent, informed conversation that y'all had here.
"Eternal Sunshine" still haunts me, years and years after I saw it. It's a must-see. Go on Zach's show, Mike, you'll have fun - hopefully you'll meet Kelsey Darragh there, she is a goddess and I want to be like her when I grow up. Best wishes from Tampa, Florida.
This makes me want to share this with all doctors dealing with chronic illness patients who dismiss ppls symptoms. These are people who live with their symptoms and may even know as much or even more about their conditions than the doctors and they should not be treated like the regular flu patient who has no idea what the difference between a virus and a bacterial infection.
I love this and found it so deeply fascinating. I’m a healthcare worker (CNA, DSP, CRMA) a major try guys fan and have had my fair share of awful experiences as a patient. Being written off or told I’m lying about my symptoms, being told a true physical ailment (POTS) was nothing more than my anxiety disorder until a cardiologist saw me and gave my PCP hell, and still she thought it was “all in my head.” I’ve had several encounters that have been uncomfortable and frustrating, so as a healthcare worker I strive to make sure all of my patients feel heard and seen and have me advocating for them as hard as they do for themselves. So glad to hear this conversation being had.
I needed this desperately today. I’ve been dealing with chronic pain and fatigue for a year since a car accident. I’ve been ‘punted’ so many times it’s ridiculous. It’s traumatic to have to relive the accident to each medical professional I see and to not have any one on your side it seems like. Sometimes you just want to stop trying to find a solution and live in pain forever.
I started to be my own doctor. Paid out of pocket for imaging. Radiologists do most diagnosis. Then sought out specific specialists and travelled to them. I'm not rich, it was for survival.
This was excellent!!! Would love to see Dr. Mike talk with Keith and the impact of 'eat the menu' series.
easily one of my favourite guests on the checkup! i always enjoy listening to zach speak
That was a great video! I have been a long-time follower of the Try Guys and while Zack plays a goof ball at times on his videos he is really smart about the business he is in. I really appreciate the fact that Dr Mike retains his ethics, in a world where almost everything is for sale he has not sold out (as far as I know). I am new to his channel so I am going back and watching older videos and find it a very interesting way to spend my time.
As a disabled Brit who relies on the NHS, there's a pretty simple explanation as to why the NHS is falling apart: the Tories (Conservative Party). They have openly spoken about wanting a system like America's in the past, and have even sold off some parts of the NHS to private companies, though it's free at point of access so most people don't care. The NHS is chronically underfunded to a depressing degree. The Tories don't care about funding it more, though, because they are mostly wealthy (even if their voters range in wealth) and can get good private healthcare. The point is to make it as "profitable" as possible by stripping everything "unnecessary". It is not to help patients, it's to make the government money. The fact that those patients have paid with taxes, that they will continue to pay taxes and work and improve the economy...that's not interesting to the Tories. That's long-term thinking. They are a party of short-term thinking - what will make me the most money *now*? what will get me the most voters *now*?. It's never about the future, and if you speak about the future, especially in realistic/uncertain/cynical ways, then you are basically told off by them for being a Debbie Downer leftist pessimist and lacking hope. This is the story of Brexit. The remainers said that it would have obvious consequences, the leavers (most Tories, but not all surprisingly) said that we were "remoaners" and it wouldn't be that bad. Fast forward to today and most people regret voting leave. You just don't win by telling people the truth. You don't keep pulling the wool over your supporters' eyes if you let them see that the NHS/social care/etc. in the UK is falling apart.
The Tories would never tax billionaires, because they are friends with the billionaires. They get hired by these companies after leaving politics and get massive salaries. Which means that they can say that the money isn't there, while decimating any kind of government funded programme that would help its poorest and most vulnerable citizens. Healthcare, education, benefits, everything. But no one cares. They voted for the Tories, and they personally can't be bad and contributing to this. They have never experienced the issues, and if they do, they blame the NHS, not the government underfunding it. I regularly hear people grumbling about how the NHS is bad and failing and long waits and whatever, but they never talk about the systemic underfunding that causes that. There won't be protests, because it's been happening for decades and no one cares. The Tories are just going to keep on playing Jenga until they find the block that makes everything fall down (and then blame it on Labour).
That is why you should support free market healthcare ran by insurance companies. Because you currently rely on politicians to make the system right.
Obviously politicians are not incentivized to make the system right so why would you suppose they would do so in the future?
There should be no healthcare policy. Remove healthcare policy, then you remove political influence from healthcare.
At least allow others to opt out of the NHS through tax deductions.
@@henrysanders6544 way to miss the entire point not only of the video, but also of my comment.
@@rosehipowl You realize I am not required to agree with you, especially since you provide no compelling reasons for me to agree with you?
@henrysanders6544 you realize they are also not required to agree with you, right?
Why are we voting for politicians we can't trust tho?
I really like that he stressed advocating for yourself. As someone with an autoimmune disease I’m sick of my condition being seen as a test result. I know how my condition makes me feel, and I know when something is off.
Dr Mike’s videos keep getting better and better!
He’s right about self advocacy. Every time I meet a new dr I tell them listen, I have multiple chronic pain conditions and have learned that I have to advocate for myself and to do that I have to ask good questions. To ask good questions I have to do research. I make very clear that I respect their experience as a doctor (even if I don’t have enough data at this point to know If I do) but I am not one that will just take medication prescribed to me. I want to know why. How does it work. What are the side effects. Why this instead of something else. What are lifestyle changes I can make to put off or work in harmony with the meds. I do not substitute my drs with google. But I do research so I can ask questions. If they’re not ok with that, we are not a good fit. I err on the side of being really respectful but if I get push back, I remind them that I only do research so I can understand. I look for another doctor if they don’t play ball.
Australia definitely got worse after COVID. I've been going to the same medical practice for ten years. They were bulk billing for that entire time, until 2021.
During 2021 their urgent care stopped bulk billing. 2022 they stopped bulk billing for appointments after 4pm. 2023 bulking billing is only available for people under 16 and concession card holders.
Appointments went from being available three days in advance to three weeks. My Doctor is always so over booked as of this year she has been fifteen-thirty minutes late to everyone of my appointments, she never used to be late.
It's just very obvious how much the system is struggling, so many doctors I've been seeing for years have stopped taking new patients completely.
This might sound crazy but my cat just passed this morning and watching your videos Dr. Mike and seeing your smile makes me smile thank you❤️
While I understand it's a system issue, I can't believe it's not also a doctor issue. There's just bad doctors out there. I've been a victim of natural medicine as a kid because my mother doesn't trust a lot of healthcare at all--it was tooth and nail ripping to get her to do vaccines for Covid--but I've also dealt with doctors that just weren't giving me the care I expected and needed. It's made me very skeptic and jaded but also has made me develop a lot of anxiety around my health. On the flip side, I have had good doctors doing the best they can under this system, some have jumped hoops for me, so I know they're out there. I just wish that we weren't waiting on the next horrible thing to happen for a change in the system to occur.
Would be cool to have zack and mike talk with health care experts from around the world. Like Norway, Australia, Canada, Germany etc. people who understand how their systems work and how similar but different systems function and the pros, cons and things that could be better and how (if they know a solution).
Unfortunately I am a 35 year old female who had dental surgery three years ago, started experiencing extreme chest pain, and I went to multiple doctors and none of them could help me and punted me to the next doctor. It got so bad I couldn’t move anymore from the pain eventually losing mobility. Eventually I managed to try again and managed to call to go to the emergency room and they gaslit me and told me it was all in my head and sent me to a physical rehab instead of getting me medical attention. I’m still in this situation and it’s very scary. My family were on board with this. Don’t be a woman and get sick. Sorry just heard the part when you were talking to Zach about people not believing women and heart attack symptoms. Don’t let this happen to you. Be sure you have the right people around you to advocate. When the healthcare system fails, it fails hard.
Bring a man with you to appointments. Hire a male actor even. It makes a huge difference.
This version of Zack is my favorite version of him. We get him and his thoughts and feelings and it makes him way more relatable.
I feel the "it took a decade to get diagnosed" thing. I have been to probably 30 mental health professionals throughout my 29 years and for half of them I was saying "I think I have something like ADD" and was told no, I stopped bringing it up and my last brain doctor was like "you show signs of IADD." She put me on medication for it and I felt like I could think clearly and walk around like a normal person. I was fighting through the clouds of my disorder and had no energy left to fight for myself. I just kept going back to new counselors because after awhile I would get too exhausted to keep up a relationship with any counselor & stop going. I'm not happy with how long it took and I wish I could go back and show all the counselors and psychiatrists who just said I was depressed & anxious because of PTSD and make them look at their mistake. I'm not nearly as depressed or anxious now that I can get out of bed and think! It's been a year almost and my life is so different, I can be a regular mother to my son and I am back to doing things for fun, I'm even teaching my boy how to swim and we are going out on the lake. It's like a curse has been lifted. I'm just so thankful I get to function!
Every month when I pick up my Adderall the pharmacist, pharmacist tech and I lament over the difficulties of getting it. And that's my mildest issue. I put off getting spinal surgery that I should have gotten sooner because the system was frustrating me, and I just figured "fight through the pain" because I didn't want to deal with the system. It took working so many doubles at my vet hospital during the pandemic which caused my body to break, and a mom who just told me to shut up was taking me to the doctor.
Months of PT, knowing I was probably going to do surgery, and discussing it with my PT. I have done everything short of surgery to fix my back at that point, I knew it was my only option, and I didn't come to that decision lightly.
I'm so grateful that I found the right doctors, and they razz me. For a post-op check, I came in in a brace because a cat bit me and I had to have my hand at an angle to reduce the swelling. He just rolled his eyes and said he was glad he went into human medicine, his patients don't bite like mine do. 🤣🤣
This is a fantastic conversation. Thanks for this, Mike and Zach!
I thought it was so interesting when Zach said he didn’t want to know or think about it. I get it ! I totally do! But as a women with two undiagnosed chronic conditions. I have now completed a PhD and have become an academic who I doing research to try to find the answers that we don’t have ! It’s hard and can be very emotional, but my hope is my research may one day help me and others
What conditions do you have?
Didn’t know Zach is a bit younger than the other try guys. About the same age as Dr Mike. Fun conversation about medicine, the trust with doctors, and the problems with healthcare. I like this episode is edited to sound more continuous than some of the shorter ones. I think it’s ok that every episode’s length can be different. I love the older longer ones. But this is still good. 👍
Thank you for doing this episode. Love you korndiddy!!! I have also had troubles with the healthcare industry and was 26 weeks pregnant before we were able to figure that out. Thank you for always encouraging people to speak up and communicate more with their providers.
I'm a Canadian, and our system is also broken- especially post pandemic. I've been "punted" around for over 20 years, being dismissed or misdiagnosed, but I am grateful that I did not have to spend any money along the way. My GP told me she has over 1500 patients in her care. No wonder she doesn't spend time to figure out what is wrong with me.
The number scale at the hospital sucks. I agree with Zach, I have a high pain tolerance because I have chronic pain so when I'm injured it's almost always like at most a 3 for me but is off the charts for others. I had a C-section and it really wasn't that bad for me and my nurses were just so confused as to why I just refused to take pain meds as often as they wanted me to. When the other moms in the other rooms had tremendous pain. My recovery was fantastic and I'm actually the weirdo in that. But it didn't mean I wasn't just cut open. The scale is so imperfect.
I think it’s how the scale is used. The scale isn’t to compare your pain to others, the scale is to compare your pain level against yourself
This is by far the best podcast episode! Their communication flows so well- authenticity
Zach is so wholesome. I wish him all the best.
As someone who also has a chronic pain condition (fibromyalgia) I've heard from multiple different people and in a booklet I read I got from the rheumatologist that diagnosed me that the wrong type of exercise is worse than doing no exercise at all
Do you know what the booklet is called? That sounds like it could be very helpful info!
As a Canadian, the US health care is terrifying. I can't imagine having to pay to consult a doctor, let alone pay to go to an hospital if I'm actually sick.
They charged me for an ambulance once, I said "wow 75 seems steep" so they apologized and said don't worry about it. It won't effect credit and they don't follow up. So I never payed despite a bill.
Same! It's really scary hearing the stories from my friends in the states.
We pay differently and we have our own problems, but yes, we don't have to choose between our health vs being able to pay our bills at the end of the month.
Even worse, doctors refusing to refill medications if you don't see them. For insulin, birth control, high blood pressure meds. It is so expensive to see the doctor and then so expensive to pay for the meds. Some people can't afford both.
@@tinaet4909 you realize doctors aren't the ones I. Charge of you ACTUALLY getting meds that way? They won't prescribe because they could lose their license over it. They have to follow protocols. It's not the doctor that's the problem here. Not to mention, medications should be monitored. I'm sorry but it's unrealistic to think the majority of people use their meds properly/ medications don't cause symptoms even long term ones that need interventions.
this was a fantastic collab. i’d love to see more of Doctor Mike and the Try Guys together
I have lupus and it took me forever to get my diagnosis. I love hearing his experience because it mirrors my experience soooo much!
I love the fact that you had the conversation about the science/medicine behind the eat the menu effects on Keith’s body because I’ve always been fascinated by statistics and the science behind food and as someone who makes homemade pasta and loves to cook it’s fun explaining the science/process to other people!
It has been over 20 years. I'm so tired of trying to figure it out on my own with doctors that don't want to take the time to figure this out. Slowly, but surely, my life has shrunk year after year. I have no more fight in me. Doctors should be fighting for their patients, too. If one doesn't know, find someone who does. Don't just let your patient languish in pain and debilitating fatigue until they just don't fight anymore.
Hey Mike, you should interview Lara Parker. She’s also a Buzzfeed employee, who wrote a book about having endometriosis
I have EDS and spondyloarthritis and I relate to Zach SOOOO much!! Thank you for shedding light onto invisible diseases
As someone with 10+ chronic conditions that i developed as a 16 yr old it was so easy (and I was so so fortunate to have a nurse of a mom) to advocate for me and fight for me when I didn’t know what to do but now as a 23 yr old that transition to advocating for myself talking with insurance paying my own medical bills was such a hard transition. I’m fully disabled had to drop out of college developed paralysis and needed round the clock care from my parents the medical system sucks!! It took me 18 yr to be diagnosed with something I was born with and had symptoms of as a child and I’m still fighting for answers for some things. Idk what the answer is but something needs to change
“You or your loved ones” -Dr Mike
In referring to who best advocates for patients
my father sat in my gyno appointments and told my Dr “this is not normal, she is in intense amounts of pain, this is not okay” I am forever indebted to him, my mother, and drs who listened for my endometriosis diagnosis
I majorly appreciate the conversation about low-impact exercise. All my life I had knee braces because I was running and jumping which my my knee so angry. I’m trying to find something that won’t do that and doesn’t require going out in 100+ degree heat.
Tip: if you turn on Audio Description when watching your show, it basically turns TV and movies into audiobooks.
You can do whatever you want, and not miss much by not looking.
I feel Zack so much, just wanting someone to take care of you sounds so nice
Regular boulderer and beginning runner here.
Would recommend bouldering after all, just make sure to climb down.
Or get into top-rope climbing with a buddy: that'll give you social motivation and reduce the fall impact.
Yes!!! So excited for this ep! Two of my favorite people on this app
Phlebotomy in the UK: My ex-husband was heavily tattooed, from head to toe. He was having blood drawn one time when the Phlebotomist said that it was more difficult, & she said, going back to her training, they try to get volunteers with a darker skin colour & tattooed people to come have their blood drawn by students, as it will be a situation that every phlebotomist will come across (likely daily) that's more challenging than drawing from lighter skinned individuals.
Thank you for this. Dr. Mike helped me find out I have EDS that was ignored for years. We need to talk about this stuff
Zach has always admitted that he's highly opinionated in conversations but I've always loved listening to his stories.
Idk “no one is responsible for you expect for you”… I feel like that’s part of the problem. We as people can’t rely solely on ourselves and need the support of community, yet our medical system and society just reinforces those values. We even see dr mike do it here, now, in real time. I think if we could come together as a community and weren’t forced to act so isolated maybe we could get somewhere medically. Look at what tiktok has done for the neurodivergent community
I see what you're saying, and I agree we need community. At the end of the day though, it all starts with you. Nobody can do your physical therapy for you, nobody stop you from choosing a bad diet. A community can support you, and help you access resources, but at the end of the day, you have to make the choice to make positive changes in your own life.
Maybe if physicians actually actively listened, squashed their biases & stopped going to “mental health” as soon as a few tests were “negative”, people wouldn’t feel desperate & get sucked in by scams . I told multiple mds very specific symptoms & not a single one quoted my description of “feels like legs lit on fire from waste down & like I’m walking in quicksand with bricks chained to my legs.” Pretty descriptive, yet my chart ends up saying “vague symptoms.” Years later tgey find a chronic nerve impingement in lumbar due to worsening arthritis & disc disease.
If someone has no advocate, no family & cognitive issues, severe stressors, they continually ask for assistance & are told sorry we’re outpatient we can’t help you, your not sick enough, you weren’t inpatient, & you’re trying to NOT end up inpatient, when severe crushing fatigue (post exertional malaise) is one of your main symptoms, eventually you just have no more energy to fight left anymore. Also, the “I did all the tests (no you didn’t, & possibly the science hasn’t caught up yet), it must be your mental health (mind body connection exists but not at all to the degree that it’s charted as a diagnosis, of course if you already have a MH diagnosis it’s convenient). Here’s the thing, physicians are very driven typically type A personalities & “losing” or “failing” just isn’t an option, so rather than admitting they aren’t sure or the science just hasn’t caught up yet, their ego can be protected when they’re able to blame it on something the patient already has, or that can’t actually be ruled out as a cause (mental health symptoms are frequently related to physical issues but it’s easier to place the onus on the patient & not do the digging. OR label the patient as hypochondriac because they say they searched something on the internet because they weren’t getting answers & came across something that checks all the boxes & they’re interested in exploring that possibility.
Doctors-just because you haven’t figured it out yet, or maybe science hasn’t caught up yet, it doesn’t mean it’s mental health.
Does mental health cause swollen lymph nodes, fevers, rashes, hair loss, oscillopsia, random sudden cognitive fluctuations, aphasia, etc….. then maybe get a diagnosis of invisible illness with no cause & you’re told to get used to how life is going to be now.
MS was initially hysterical paralysis & now we’re looking at an actual cause. Also, maybe think bigger picture & ask questions about patient environment, lifestyle, stop completely running out things just because there aren’t 100 research studies on it. Reactivated viruses, mold toxicity, conditions that are said to be rare that may not actually be rare, people just haven’t gotten diagnosed because Dr’s are taught “when you hear hooves think horses, not zebras.”
Just some thoughts, from a chronically ill nurse, that now has medical trauma due to gaslighting & can’t schedule an appointment without having a panic attack (especially new physician).
If “the system” is always used as the reason for why these issues occur, will anyone ever address biases. Everyone has them & very few physicians/nurses actually take the time to examine them. Doing so is a start in the right direction. It’s at least something, instead of just waiting for a “broken” system to get fixed. 🤷♀️
As someone with AS, I really appreciate this discussion. Thanks for sharing your story.
Mik,e collab with tryguys more, I love this combo. Maybe 'Tryguys learn chest compressions or basic 'First aid' training?
I def relate/agree with zach. Working out isn't always an easy thing to have as a habit esp when you have another illness or issue. When you're already in pain, fatigued, nauseous, etc 24/7 it's not exactly easy or something you'd want to do. People without these issues would just rest if they had them temporarily, but because they're chronic we're expected to do it all anyway work/exercise/etc
I have a rare condition that's a symptom of another genetic condition that I have. There's no official treatment for it, only suggestions. My doctor recommended one on the 'well it might help' list and it's damn near a magic bullet. It's aspirin, so there is bleeding risk, but it's a cheap and overall low risk treatment. So long as it's not overly risky or will bankrupt you for the attempt, it's worth trying.
Because my mind jumped literally to the same acronym, here's the fun wrist bones:
Some (Scaphoid)
Lovers (Lunate)
Try (Triquetrum)
Positions (Pisiform)
That (Trapezium)
They (Trapezoid)
Can't (Capitate)
Handle (Hamate)
But I'm glad to see you guys discussing our ongoing healthcare system issues. (Burn out is very real indeed and so is the staff shortages - not only in physicians, nurses, but also all the healthcare adjacent personnel as well be it PT, OT, etc.)
What it sounds like Zach has is Von Willebrand Disease, which means you have low Von Willebrand factor. I have it too and it’s all the same things; you need to be careful if you’re having surgery and being hospitalized (and it causes excessive menstrual bleeding if you’re AFAB), and you can use a nasal spray called desmopressin before surgeries and stuff to lessen the likelihood of excessive bleeding. It is chronically underdiagnosed because the symptoms are usually missed in most people, unless you have a surgery where you bleed a lot or you’re AFAB and have menorrhagia. Hopefully Zach can get a diagnosis because getting diagnosed changed my life!
I love how they’re both super respectful when they disagree with each other and don’t automatically get hyper defensive. I wish I knew more people like them. 😊
After 14 years of testing, scans, multiple doctors and specialists, physical therapy (that didn't work), I was finally diagnosed with hEDS which could not be diagnosed through all of the testing I went through nor could I have been diagnosed through genetic testing. The Healthcare system in general, across the world, needs to do better by its patients, and I completely empathize with Zach.
If you have hEDS, keep an eye out for POTS and MCAS... I started out with a POTS diagnosis and discovered hEDS from there and finally figured out that I'm probably MCAS too (as following a low histamine diet has made symptoms much better).
❤ fellow zebra
Hey- that’s one of my conditions too. Hey, fellow zebra!
How did you eventually get diagnosed? I’m diagnosed hypermobile but I want to make sure it is or is not hEDS
On the off chance that Zach or someone else with chronic pain reads this, the single thing that changed my life dealing with chronic pain from hip dysplasia for over 15 years was to stop trying for a solution and accept the cards I was dealt. NOT that you stop trying treatments, but when you relabel your current pain as your “baseline” instead of pain and learn to be content with that, then anything worse is “below your baseline” and anything better is a pleasant surprise, but the disappointment when there’s no improvement fades away. I feel so grateful for the ability to be in control of how I feel about my life that I don’t focus on the pain, and when I don’t focus on it, it becomes part of everyday life. It may not work for everyone, but it worked for me and it’s worth a try. Our words are powerful, even when they’re in our heads. Good luck to everyone dealing with chronic pain!
Personally, I first season my medicine then I bake until crispy. But I whould love to try other styles!
I previously worked for the NHS in the UK before being diagnosed with an invisible, long term disability. The issue in the UK is that our doctors aren’t willing to trust any research that is done outside of the UK without corroboration from a UK organisation… but they also don’t like doing medical research trials on patients who would otherwise live without treatment despite the severity of their symptoms.
I’ve been in a 3 year battle with various doctors to try and get approval for at-home saline infusion but no one is willing to “try something new “ despite this treatment being commonly used for my condition.
Speaking from the UK as a nurse, our problem is that the NHS is not been funded enough for how much it is needed. The demand for healthcare is so much higher than the supply almost. We are understaffed because the government are not treating us properly. Yes healthcare is free for us technically but it can take so long to get seen or treated as the expectation is becoming higher and higher with the advances in healthcare technology and information. I have no idea how these issues are going to be fixed worldwide but no method seems to work clearly. Love your videos by the way!
Thanks for what you do1
Just a slight note on Lyme disease Dr. Mike, the antibiotic treatments don't work on many cases of chronic Lyme (e.g., my aunt has gone all the usual routes and still has the effects of Lyme decades later). This is why, I imagine, the bee sting woman used the bee stings. You'd be nuts to not use antibiotics in the first place.
I’m chronically ill and have severe chronic pain and trying through the healthcare system is a nightmare. Hearing Zach talk about it makes me feel a bit better in that I’m not alone.
I’m the opposite with learning about conditions, though. The second I’m diagnosed, I wanna learn every little thing about my diagnosis (probably because I’m autistic) and I ask my doctors everything I can.
I do agree with the wanting a magic bullet treatment. I’m hoping to get a daith piercing soon as a desperate attempt to help my chronic migraines since my migraine medicine isn’t working too well and it takes forever to get an appointment with my specialist. I figured either it helps at all or it doesn’t, either way I get a shiny new piercing :’)
This is why I'm a big fan of traverses in bouldering - climbing sideways close to the ground, so no big drop 🙂
I (a woman) was diagnosed over 40 years ago in a couple months by a very wonderful woman doctor. Also diagnosed with ulcerative colitis in the same timeframe by another wonderful woman doctor. My wonderful woman gynecologist got things started and they all coordinated. Edit: ulcerative colitis became colon cancer a few years ago, colon removed by a wonderful woman surgeon. Yearly colonoscopies paid off!
I listened to the podcast for the first time yesterday, and it's one of the best I've heard. Highly recommend it.
This is such an important discussion filled with excellent points. Thank you for sharing this!
When he talked about downplaying his symptoms....YES DUDE. I stil do it.