PROVING THE CRITICS WRONG [why catamarans don’t sail well]
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Catamarans can't sail upwind...catamarans sail poorly.... Critics say that cats don't sail well or sail as well as monohulls....but the boat may not be to blame...it could be your powerplant instead....and the powerplant are you sails. So before you sell your "slow, heavy cat" for something more "performance" oriented, take a good long look at your sails. They aren't the tires on your boat...they are then engine. You may need new sails.
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Nick and Megan have been #sailing and living #OffTheGrid on and off for the past 20 years. We love to #travel and spend time in #nature and we hope to see you out here!
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Gentlemen don’t sail to weather! But seriously people believe that good sails are only for racing but there are crucial for a cruising boat. Oh, one more thing, when you raise the sail, don’t pull down, rather pull out (like drawing a bow and then down together with your wife pulling the tail then. It's way more efficient and better for your back (15 years racing, ask me how I know).
I must agree with Mr.Spock: FASCINATING!
Can you two ever do an episode I don't need to see over and over and still save it so I can look at it again later?
I love you guys! .. Much ❤ from 🇸🇪.
Wow, that's a heck of a compliment. Thank you
That’s Lake Norman Airpark 14-a? Very cool!
Totally love that new sail feeling - on the tri we have replaced all the sails Main, jib, Screecher and kite. Sooo good to have great sails.
I love how you monitor the comments so quickly thanks. Feels like we are almost chatting in real time!
We try. Just getting ready to cast off so we will go quiet. But we see this as a community and a conversation for sure.
Good job. I like that you are comparing ground tracks and VMG. While sailing an informal drag race between a 45 foot cruising cat and a 45 foot cruising monohull in 2004 upwind I realized that VMG to windward was king. Pointing is just one variable in the mix. Pointing is less important than upwind VMG unless you are trying to sail upwind in a constricted waterway which cruisers almost never do. I often have to argue this point in discussions with other sailors who have not thought it through.
VMG is really all that matters….ever. Pointing means so so little.
Thanks Nick, this was very educative! And Wow! The facts about the tacking angles really got me. Didn't expect the laminates to be sooooo much better.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge💪
AS a pilot I am surprised you have not THOURLY examines the ridiculous lack of the attention to the sorely attended 3 Catagories of Keels ,centerboards & daggerboards
I would love have a discussion on the virtues of these 3 vrs The 4th NEW catagory:
SCABBOARDS.....let me educate you ,like you educated the Sailors in this video
In the marketing world today everything has to be priced cheaper than the next guy. "You get what you paid for for" is only looked at the moment of purchase and performance over the long haul is not considered anymore. All things considered you probably are money ahead even if you paid more now with the added bonus of good performance. Thanks for sharing
I learned more about sails and sail shape from this video than any other video I've seen. I genuinely appreciate the education.
Safe travels!
You did a great job landing that plane Nick. you did a very good job explaining how to trim your sails on a catamaran for up wind. Clarity looked like she's ready to take off beautifully done sir great job by the mate working the ropes
Very well explained..! The heeling factor makes sense; in a monohull, as the wind speed increases, its energy is spilled as the boat heels. But with a flat-sailing catamaran, that does not happen, so the sails take the full force. So they will wear out and get baggy. Which means you're gonna go sideways a lot when the wind is coming from anywhere apart from behind you.
I wonder if a Junk (fully battened lugsail) rig has been applied to a cat. It's never going to win races but you reef easily, and less stress on a mast than all this kevlar at vast cost and rolling-furling headsails, a fucking right handful when the wind pipes up suddenly.
Funny statement - "Hey, what's the rush? It's not a race..." Until sails are spotted, going the same heading... And the race begins! Great video! Thanks!
Hey Nick that was the best video I’ve ever seen on sail performance ever, I appreciate your awesome explanation & integrity😎😜
Wow Ricki, thank you!
"Back to you Megan".
"Oh thank you Nick for that excellent story about how your sails make your boat go forward".
Very informative and informative. This is how much time had to be spent on collecting and summarizing the information provided. Thanks for the release.
Outstanding episode O'Kelly's! Thank you for all your hard work!
Another great video. When I was younger I got a chance to take the north sails fast course . Your explanation of sailing techniques does you proud. Keep up the good work.
Super video, as usual!!
All of the information regarding the choice of sail materials is very appreciated.
Thank you for the great inspiration!
Great video! I had an old sail on my monohull for 3 years and did not realize it was the sail that was causing the excess heeling and slow speed. I considered myself a good sailor and good at trim but could never get any performance out of the boat. Now I know why. Thanks a million (or at least several thousand...).
Awesome vid again..it has taken me awhile to warm to you guuys...but i kept watching..and now i learn so much about sailing..and i enjoy your vids..Cheers Bazz
Thank you for the effort you put into this video! Exceedingly helpful even though I sail a mono hull.
Great video! The graphic overlay was so helpful on Leeway, trim & tack. Neat to see how laminate fibers are laid too. Good to see y'all 'this week'
Very nice teacher. Agree 100% on the laminate sail performance. We kept both on out monohull sloop to use them in different settings but understand that in the Sail area that you have that isn’t an option.
My original main on my Leopard was on there when I bought the boat and I sailed with it for another 6 years before some tearing started. I did 20 000nm with mine. My new sails are now in place and I do love the huge low friction rings used on the sails. I’m sure this will be easier on the sails over time. Can’t wait to start our Atlantic crossing in a few weeks to see them in action over a long period.
You're comin over!? Alright! Might share an anchorage afterall! Have a great trip!
I've seen people down at the marina with sails so blown out they have sewn patches into the sails and run stringer lines to center points that tie to a free floating ring over a line. I don't know how they sail like that and honestly they probably don't and just use the motor to putt around the bay. My favorite is when people go to get on their boats after it's been sitting a long time snd they start raising the sails and rats or mice come tumbling down the sails, long streaks of rodent urine, poop and bedding material come flying out to cover the other boats.
Thanks For the Very informative Vlog on sails .. I really enjoyed it and am on my 2nd time watching it ..
can’t begin to tell you how much I appreciate you sharing your experience with real data for comparison .. I love getting 100% performance out of a good sail and getting a cruiser what I call ‘up on the keels’ going up wind is such a great feeling ..
Your logic is spot on my Vulcan friend! Once again nothing but quality and I just love your music, your filming and your intelligent content, not to mention your new sleeping quarters. That's why I am s sub of yours!! Good luck, fair winds and I look forward to the next show.
I enjoyed the tech side, retired Mechanical Engineer, glad you talked about how import sails are for cruisers, it’s their “engine”! Need to be taken care of and serviced, washed, dried regularly, in the sail bag, or folded and stored properly. If owners forked out serious funds for a main, they’d be more likely to take care of it. Fair winds⛵️😎
Thanks for a great video. Sure, sailboats are all about foils. I think the most common mistake people make with sails in replacing them is to go back and order sails from the loft the factory uses and order sails just like they had when new. In many cases what you get is a sail meant for the charter trade, presentable but not performance. Many people also shop for lowest cost sails. Both mistakes. Speaking with a sail designer and having sails made specifically for your boat and your style of sailing is money well spent, Dacron or laminate.
So very true. Great advice. We went back to Ullman, but made significant design changes.
We just upgraded to a Hydranet Triradial mainsail on our Nautitech 441 and see a real improvement upwind. Less leeway and good speed!
Yes.... this is the kind of video I like... real information, straight to the point no fluff.... thank you!
That was a great video. Very educational!
Thanks. You reinforced a few things to do with sails and showed me at least one thing I didn't know.
Love the Navy 44 at 4:30. Beat Army!
Ultimately I watch sailing videos for episodes like this. Thanks for the knowledge bomb Nick
Great video! I am eager to try out the sails on our new-to-us Knysna 440, which I am told "crab sails", and does not point into the wind whatsoever. We shall see.
That was very informative thanks guy's. Love your channel. 💙💗
Nick. Just a fabulous short webinar on sails. 👍👏🏻
Amazing video. Thanks Guys. So informative, so balanced and great for the industry.
This is an awesomely informative video. Thank you for sharing.
Hi , Nick and Megan , Thank you ,
long time for my answer , this video tells you why you will go to 100.000 Subscribers.
Educational , Happy , Uplifting , Funny , Straightforward , Loving , and easily 20 minutes ,
without blinking i look at your videos with a smile on my face .
Be Happy always , Love , See you , Enjoy 🙂😊
You are too kind Michel. Thank you. Really appreciate the kind words. Best to you as well!
@@TheOKellys
Thank you.
Yet another insightful course at O'Kelly University, weaving together concepts from many different disciplines. You could literally package all of your video explanations into a full semester worth of presentations.
Great video! And 👍👍 for the outro soundtrack
Great content as always!! Love the look of your new main aside from the increased performance.
That was quite informative. Thank you!
Amazing video, learnt alot today... Keep doing what you guys are doing, making a soldier really happy...
.
Thanks for showing your info and the making of the sails. High tech and interesting.
Very well done video. What a beautiful sail! I subbed!
I'd think about rolling up the sail canvas when going upwind... You're the only American channel left in my Abo's. Always some interesting stuff to hear about cats.
As usual time well spent listening to your educational videos. Thank you
excellent points raised and well illustrated
Love the technical video!
Great job on the video Nick and Megan....so that's why you won the tacking race at Marsh, you had the secret weapon. The red track looks like my effort! lol
Lol. Valiant effort!
Wow great info on this video keep them coming !
Thanks for the clear explanation
Man, that was an awesome video! I'm a former Naple Sabot, Laser, Tornado, Nacra 6.0 and Nacra 5.8 as well as many other boats that I've crewed on including Defender and Courageous (12 meter Americans Cup), TeVega 165 ft. gaff rigged schooner and Taxi Dancer. I also grew up in a junior racing sailing program from 7 or 8 years of age all the way through my senior year of high school. It honestly was the best time in my life. You taught me a few things that I didn't fully understand and explained it incredibly well. Thank you! I haven't been sailing in about 15 years but the last time I went was a race in Newport Beach, CA where I entered The Flight of the Laser's and was the first one to the first mark, the second to the second mark and ended up with a 6th place finish. I was really fast up wind but chocked on the down wind because of my weight. I was a little heavy at the time. This race if you know about it has hundreds of boats on the starting line at the same time for one race. I'm planning on getting a Schionning catamaran and taking it to the tropics because I miss sailing a lot and need to get back out on the water again.
Taxi Dancer! Wow! That’s pretty cool! Have seen photos of the Flight in Newport, but never in person. Really appreciate the kudos. It’s so hard to do tech vids because you can bore people with too much and bore them with too little. Hope that one met the mark….get it…? Lol thanks for the note
Never mind the sails, the music at the end was fantastic !!!
Well thank you
You guys are the best! always teaching me interesting details. Didn't know you're also a pilot Nick . Cool!
Wow, this was incredibly educational. We had to stop the video many times to look things up and get our bearing! Thanks for always putting out vids that help us cruisers. We had NO idea that tacking performance was a "thing". I guess we need to start tacking! HA HA. Great job...as usual!
Very informative video guys, nice work.
Merci!
Awesome video with great explanations!
Very good documentary about aerodynamics and sails. Kudos.
really informative... learn something every video
Great video. Very interesting. Thanks 👍👍👍❤️
Thanks for the sail video. Will be interested on how it holds up. Will you replace the headsail too?
I've learnt far more from your channel than all the others put together. Thanks heaps
that's very kind of you to say. Glad we could provide some value
Nick, Thanks again for an awesome presentation. Your bang on about Sails. Money spent now on great sail will provide you with big bonuses over the lifetime of the sail.
So true! They aren’t the tires, they are the engine!
Nick's Master of Science in Climatology from U. of WI shone through here with clear explanations of complex subject matter. Thanks so much. Well done.
It's actually a Masters of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences. But yeh, UW-Madison....how'd you know that?
@@TheOKellys Oh, sorry I got your masters subject matter wrong and I appreciate the correction. Answer- you told us, I don't remember if it was video or a podcast. You're the best on weather. Thanks.
Ahhh, thanks. I will always be a weathergeek
Good info, thanks Nick! We've got the "cruising laminate" ordered on our boat. Didn't realize how much lighter they are than the dacron. Lighter weight = faster! :o) Nice landing by the way!
Almost time for us to replace our sails. They certainly lose performance when they get soft. Love your videos, keep them coming!
I wonder if a person could just make a stiffer sail out of dacron, maybe with an extra layer with stitching similar to how they do the laminate. It seems to me that is its main benefit, being a stiffer sail.
@@SaltyShaman - that would likely increase cost and weight - enough - even to reduce performance, yet maybe they last longer.
The laminates seem like a better option - so long as they stay laminated longer.
Thank you!
Nice flying!! 👍👍👊👊🛩🛩
Great one Nick!!! This would Never be better explained. Was that a Piper at the beginning? Piper Cherokee was the 1st ever plane I flew! Loved it!!!
Well thank you! That there is a Bonanza. Lovely airplane. Personal favorite Piper is the Arrow II
Very informative and fascinating to know.
good stuff, as usual. thank you.
what percent of increase in performance would you guestimate you achieved?
Cool to see you still fly! We are in George Town with port engine problems...feeling envious of any vessel with sails at this point. That being said, I have been broken down in worse places!
Sorry to hear it! Hope you can find what you need there!
@@TheOKellys Thanks, me too. It's our first time here and we are loving it ❤
Really enjoy your balanced viewpoints. Learned a lot. Thanks.
Wow wow wow Nick, you both, what an informative video and + super montage, editing, music, details, artistic beginning, ending cool song, camera angles, descriptive arrows and words. I’m just a passionate catamaran sailor but I see way beyond your creative efforts to explain YOUR findings and YOUR passion (s) bravo bravo to the two of you, (I don’t know who comes up with ideas and who edits or who takes the time to construct the vision board but chapeau to all!) I’m happy, impressed, in awe and starstrucked as well !
Well thank you very much. We are enjoying the process and learning all the time!
Love your channel so much
great vid thanks for sharing
Excellent video! You have exposed that only those last few degrees are really only lost to the lift from the underwater appendage, which is probably caused mostly by mindset. I find it appropriate to mention that most live aboard mono hull sailers are also taking the same penalty, but don’t seem to honestly report it. I can imagine some ( more) trash talking already. Again, well done!
Thks nick
I always wondered the different types of materials
I wish someone can explain all types of materials
I need sails too on old to new to me sailboat C&C 30
Took the helm on a friends FP cat and it would not go up wind at all
So, one gets what one pays for. Oh, and I love the general aviation comparison. It was very well presented. Go well.
Airfoil
From Wikipedia,
The lift on an airfoil is primarily the result of its angle of attack. When oriented at a suitable angle, the airfoil deflects the oncoming air (for fixed-wing aircraft, a downward force), resulting in a force on the airfoil in the direction opposite to the deflection.
yea good point ,, my little cat the main is 15 years old and definitely blown out, i should get a new one ! luckily my mast is only 30 foot tall !
That's great Nick! How do the batons figure in? Do the laminate sails have very different batons? Are you finding your new sails take shape adjustments better than the old ones (twist and such). I would think the shape (and the flow attachments) is so important. Thanks for all that info! F
We used the same battens actually. Had to cut a couple a few inches. But yeh you are on the right track…the laminate is way more predictable when trimming. With the old sail, it was so much guesswork…in fact we’d often reduce sail just so we could get rid of the baggiest part. So frustrating!
Excellent video, guys.
that was probably the most even-handed review of sails I have seen across the interweb. One point - the value proposition for sails is that "value= initial purchase price over the time the sail will retain its shape " with the critical determinant being the ability of the cloth to retain its shape. - I don't think it will be too long before you think of doing the same with your headsail.
I know. And the jib is twisting off terribly. But to really put a better jib to use, we really need to do some hardware mods to get the sheet leads further up. I’ll chat with Ullman, see what ideas they might have
Excellent, thanks
THANK YOU.
Always something to learn to make better decisions for your own personal goals!
Great video! Really enjoyed it and found it to be very informative. Nice landing, too! We're looking for a weather window South next week crossing to Clearwater Beach, then Key West and the Bahamas on Partager.
Thanks Don, appreciate that. Have a safe trip! Windy windy!
@@TheOKellys We're waiting until Saturday to let the seas lay down after the next front on Thursday. Should be sporty beam reaching (NE winds) from Pensacola to Clearwater Beach. 😎 Also joined a partnership on a Commanche 250 at 82J, about 10 minutes from our house. Life is good!
Cool plane! Congrats! Life is good indeed.
Really much better the catamaran than mono hul boat. And i am dreamin to have a catamaran for sailing around the world someday. Watching from naic cavite. Philippines.
Thankyou 👍
It will really be interesting to see how it holds up to the elements over time. UV is always a killer regardless... I like your comment on the sail and tradeoff between them. Good point, sales are really a wearing part and need to be replaced on a reoccurring plan like your engine example. So, more frequently with a sale that lasts only 1 to 2 seasons, or every 4 to 5 years with a more expensive version. (that is assuming your sale does not last longer) Also, would love to see you find another Leopard and see if they can follow you, and what issues you or they, run into. Great content! And yes, a certain sail maker should be sending you chocolate. And by chocolate I mean.....
Our previous laminate held shape for 7 seasons. This current dacron sail was good on Clarity for ....maybe 2-2.5. So....yeh, there is some math involved.
One might say, the Laminate Sail is also more environmental friendly but that's wrong. Dacron is a fibre with no glue, Laminate Sails can't be recycled as the glue can't be separated from the fibres. That's a thing also to consider.
I noticed you guys are from Portland Oregon, we are also from Oregon. I've been trying to find a good local boat to go out on and get some experience sailing. We want to start a ourney of our own living full time on a boat.
Thanks a lot
I'll be sailing in the next few years and maybe catch up with you all out there. As a pretty bright guy with zero sailing experience right now, the performance aspect was, admittedly over my head. Lol! I'm sure the current or prior sailors were able to follow along though. I'll shelve this episode and watch again after sailing for a year or so and re watch then so it will make more sense. I plan to do that with many of your vids as they're GREAT sources of info. The best!
Sorry about that. Tried to keep it relatable. Bottom line is that the sail on the boat is a wing and we need it to be shaped right if we want to sail well. And yet, catamarans are so hard on sails…you gotta watch how fast they wear.
@@TheOKellys No apology needed. More a reference to my lack of knowledge and experience. Nick gave a great explanation and I’m sure I’ll understand the video better when I’ve sailed a bit. 😉 Thanks for the reply.
Good discussion Nick & nice landing for a PPL lol 😂
Well done