Have to add, 35 years on the ocean now retired waiting for my new boat so looking at all sailing vids etc. I have had mono-hulls and sailed a lot on cats in the pacific where they are very popular. I sold my Bavaria 46 in September. Now having a cat built in France.. December pick-up and can not wait. Desk research is great but here is some real world feedback. You forgot to talk about draft of boat which is very important. A cat can get closer in shore, more anchoress and sail over sand bars that would ground a mono. If your cat has dagger boards then you can sale it with only a few feet of water. Not that I would do it but cats can be safly beached for work, repair. Simplicity of rigging. Have a look at cats rigging vrs a mono-hull. And with a cat a code D/0 etc are so much easier to install/deploy. Maintenance. No it does not cost more to maintain a cat. You have two engines etc. But when you motor a cat most tend to use only one engine and even at modest revs a cat will motor with one engine at around 6 plus knots. So while you have to do service on two engines you tend to have service intervals twice as long between them. Also, criticality in when you have to fix things, (this is a big one). When an engine fails on a mono-hull you have to fix it then and there or sail at risk. With a cat you can still sail motor etc for quite a while and fix the motor when it's convenient and easier. If your power generation is main motor driven then you could loose power for auto-pilot, winches, fridges, anchor windless, electronics gear as batteries drain real quickly. It then becomes critical to have it fixed then and there and if you are in the middle of nowhere in rough weather.... Yep know that one. Loose your rudder on a mono and you have an A class problem, on a cat you loose one you can still use the other to get you home. Yep know of people with that one. Anchoring, the cat is more comfy and yes it points into the wind, but is not as effected by currents as much especially in windy conditions. Have had my boat point into the current, but wind coming across the beam, not pleasant. Size is critical, a cat of 45 feet plus sails real well and drogues are never needed. Sailed the pacific for 6 weeks on a 440 and nothing at the back was needed and we had waves more then 4 meters. Smaller sized cats maybe, but hard to find a cruising cat smaller then 40 or so. A 40 foot cat is like a 46 mono. Somewhat true in older cats. The gap is more pronounced in newer cats. . The bigger the cat gets the bigger this ratio. A new 40 cat like lagoon 400 is closer to a 50. In a lagoon 400 you 3-4 staterooms, two heads, two separate showers, multiple fridge freezers, big forward storage lockers, bow storage, big saloon, big galley, cockpit etc. Add up the usable space and you come up with a higher ratio. Look at a Saba 50 and a 60 foot mono-hull does not match it. Weight, yes weight is an issue, especially for older or high performance catamarans. But a catamaran of 45-50 has 4-6 tonnes capacity. Do you know how much weigh that is. Have 4 people on board and it could be a car in weight for each. Only hordes will have an issue. Green boat. On most cats you have heaps of space to put solar panels, wind gens, hydro gens. A 40 foot cat can easily have up to 1KW of solar a D400 wind gen and a hydro gen of the back. I have come across cruisers on cats, with panels etc and never use their gensets except when they want to run the AC / washing machine. A 45 cat you can do a lot of solar. For long term cruising this is a big plus. Even a 40-42 cat you can hang a lot of the back. The biggest benefit of a cat is liveability. Its easy to walk around the decks as they are flat, the trampoline, the bow pulpit seats add a lot. The raised helm position with lines running to it., the saloon-cockpit-to-water path. Position for paddle boards of davits, scuba tanks, dive compressors. Not to mention visitors sea sickness. My Bavaria was good but comes nowhere near to my mates 440. Yes the cost is the big one but as a live aboard or world cruiser. It can not be beat, hope people look at what is written here. But then again the best boat is the one you can afford to buy outright with no debts and you just sail within limits. Good luck in your journey, take a 3-5 year view and you can have that right boat.
Hey Mick, congrats on your new boat! Very exciting. And thanks for your input, we really appreciate hearing from people with real world experience like you. In the video we tried to be as unbiased as possible. That being said, personally, we're of the catamaran persuasion for pretty much all the reasons you listed. It's good to hear that maintenance isn't actually twice as expensive in practice. Quick question since you have the experience. For budget purposes we're probably looking to get a Lagoon 400. But we're considering saving for longer to get a 440. Once concern I have is exposure on the flybridge during bad whether or night watches on passages. The idea of someone having to get out and go up the stairs at night if the weather is foul potentially concerns me. But I realize my mental picture might not match reality. I'd be curious what your take is on this? Any thoughts?
Hi, Here is my feedback and there are many people that also have feedback on this. If there is only two of you both boats will do you well. The fly bridge issue is there and yes when wet an windy can be uncomfortable, with downloadable weather charts you can reduce that but you will still get into situations like that. On most nights it can be great up there as you have a view of the stars you can not match. But on a windy wet rough nights...well it was a slog. On most days is great up there, but with only two on board the dynamics might be different. There were 4 of us so we did not feel isolated. The biggest issue is boom hight, you can get to back part easily enough but upfront there are steps on the mast, so you can do it. At 20, - 30 years of age it is easily manageable at 56 (well yo do not want to do this type of marine gymnastic to much). The issue with the 440 is the Yanma saildrives, my friend updated the SD50 to SD60. Many forums on that issue. On the 400 everything is so much closer and you sit on the helm, see everything and everybody easily. The boom is easy to handle the flat roof is easy to put on panels etc. The 440 carries more fuel, more water, more space for washing machine, desalinator .. so that is a big plus in the Pacific where you are days from anywhere, in the Caribbean / Med not so much. Also the 440 has bigger volumes so its easier, not easy to get to things for maintenance, fixing etc. The 400 is nice compact and more then enough room for 2 to be comfortable. My advice, charter both see how you go, and then buy the one that is best maintained, lowest hours on engines, equipment in good conditions. You know what I mean. Mick
Mick Relic hey Mick,, really good to read your input as a soon to be old farts retiring (semi) to cruise and explore first the Mediterranean then Madagascar then Asia.... With my new and quiet young wife. Some advice if I may ask, you or anyone else reading, if budget is not an issue, for something my wife and I can sail alone on shorter trips and 1/2 crew for what crossings plus guests as say a couple plus two teens, would you choose, motor yacht (Nordhavn 78 or bering 70 /or cat? If a cat, which would you go for, priority = safety & comfort then reliability and space. Performance being lesser importance than safety and comfort or ease of sailing. I can get a well maintained and fitted Nordhavn 78 (2012) or new Bering 70 (2016 & less cost than the Nordhavn) or a new leopard 48 (half the price of the MY's purchase price) major difference of course between MY and sailing yacht is the annual running /port/ maintenance costs and the the draft, but, A Nordhavn 78 can carry large suplies volume and a bigger tender for exploring Islands or shallow areas. I'm guessing to run cat is around (70/30 - 70% anchored /30%) sailing $300,000 per year and for a MY $500,000 up to $1m per anum? I've been looking now 2 years and am rather stumped. Actually delayed buying due to the confusion. You seem to be the only one actually laying it out in real terms and some sales pitch. (I hate salesmen!)
Hi Mathew, It's very fortunate.. as I am home for a couple of weeks and can answer these emails. You can speak at length on MY vr SY etc so I will just do a mental dump and hope it triggers a though process. It's good that you delayed as no point in purchasing something that is wrong. Here are some of the ways I made my decision. I reflected / visualised the way I sailed, where and how I will sail in the future. (yes sounds 60 hippy stuff but it works). I put my self inside a pacific Atoll. You have to get inside it so passage can be narrow, twisty and depth unknown. But you want to be inside for all the diving, kite surfing, snorkelling and get away from it all experience. Then you get into atoll find a perfect anchorage you drop the anchor and nothing else seems to matter. You settle in by dropping the dinghy in, start the dive compressor, some on your yacht have walked of the back and are swimming, spear fishing for lunch etc.. Everything is postcard perfect, however you dropped your anchor at low tied and in 4 hours high tide comes in and some waves are coming over the reef. They are only one or two feet, but more then enough to make a mono-hull get into its roll motion. So for 4 or so hours you have to be on a yacht that rolls, maybe even causing you to move. But a large cat just goes up and down slowly and no roll, with all the stuff you are doing you hardly notice it. Or you could be 50-100 meters closer to the sand where the waves are even smaller. What type of yacht will make it easier safer to get in and stay there. Other is a warm night slight breeze and hot inside but you do not want to start the AC as you want no noise. Just put a large towel and pillow on the trampoline and sleep there as you watch the stars. Will you be entertaining friends or other cruisers in anchorages.. list goes on Think how where etc you will be using your yacht but also take into account the practicality of the day to day stuff. In sailing people say getting there and being there are the two things. Bloody obvious. So how do I get there and what qualities of a yacht will make being there more rewarding. Now getting back to yacht choices. I have no 1st hand experience of Nordhavn / Bearing other then seeing them in port or boat shows. However we have been on motor yachts of the size you mentioned and some 15-20 years ago I use to belong to a very active divers club, where we charted motor yachts of the size you mention for weeks and once we chartered a 30 meter catamaran though Mike Balls expeditions and headed into the Great Barrier reef. So my experience is based on a passenger and guest rather then owner. But being a mechanical type I spoke at length with skippers owners and like always you get roped into fixing things etc. A MY yacht of 70-80 feet. Wow big boat and a lot of work and costs. Also something that size will need at least one knowledgeable full time crew member or a workaholic owner. Do you want to be a workaholic owner. 1st thing I would like to add... speed is safety... a yacht that can average 200 plus knots a day with modern weather, download forecasting you can avoid all the bad weather or run away from it. You can get very accurate 48 hour weather forecasts and with a fast yacht you could get 500 ktns away from where you are and into a safer zone that buys you more time to plan the next step. 2nd A large sailing vessel can motor very well a large motor yacht can not sail. 3rd The size of yachts you are talking about, their price, their running cost you will most likely need at least one full time professional crew of at least one. Just the maintenance alone. 4th. For the budget you are talking about you could be going for Fountaine Pajot Victoria 67, or Ipenama 58 or equivalent Lagoons 56/62. Now we are talking about safety, speed, comfort space etc. All these catamarans would probably be less then a Nordhavn 78 and less to run with far more space. Look them up here and do video walk through. If you want to do the owner skipper sailor with small family and friends as crew with the space for them all, the comfort etc. With the budget you are talking about, have a look at the Nautitech 541 (not 542) owners version or any layout. A Saba 50 could also do and would be cheaper. My favourite the Outremer 5x might be a step too far for you. One thing I would like to tell you, with forward cockpit catamarans, the size of the trampoline, i.e the further back you are the safer it will be and more comfortable and less slamming. I hope this helps.. Mick P.S. be good to sales people and the good ones will be good to you .. the bad ones.. oh well part of life...
Better to have 0 hulls than buy a boat that does not fit your requirements. Rather than compare the boats look at how and where you want to sail and what is the depth of the water in your safe harbours? A Multihull has more options due to their smaller draught but you do have to be a more aware of weather squalls etc, reefing early (reducing sail) is the best option on a cat. A cat is more of a home with a lounge and deck to share and cabins below and two heads is a bonus when one breaks. Twice the maintenance and hard on sails. There is no perfect answer GOOD LUCK.
Good video for the first time look at the differences. As always it will depend on what you want and how you will use the boat. Catamarans can be further broken down into two groups: stub keels or dagger boards. This pretty much defines what the cat was intended for. Dagger board boats are usually lighter, have more bridge deck clearance, 2-3kts faster than stubs in any conditions, and they point higher. In some cases much higher. They will also be affected more quickly to overloading, the dagger boards are a liability with submerged objects and the running gear is less protected. All that said the dagger boat will be faster, slam less, less likely to wallow or pitchpole (driven conservatively), and generally give a better ride. Compare a Schionning with a Lagoon.....
Great comparison analysis !!! I have been sailing BOTH since I was 10 years old ( I am now 55)and have a love for BOTH for their different attributes !!! I currently own a Bruce Farr 58 foot custom cruising monohull which @ 29,000 lbs. falls into what is commonly referred to in the sailing circles as a ULDB or ultra light displacement boat . These are also known as "Sleds" for their surfing characteristics (20+ knots off the wind and low teens upwind !) The problem that I don't care for with catamarans in open ocean sailing is that they resemble a flat surface when sitting atop of large ocean swells (kinda like a sheet of plywood)and this tends to make for a very uncomfortable ride as well as an exaggerated pitching motion which can be very dangerous !!! And as you touched upon,they do have a higher risk for pitch poling or what we used to call cart wheeling when surfing down the fronts of very large ocean swells !!! The thing that I like about a ULDB monohull is that the curvature of the hull between the bow and the stern tends to fit the shape of the wave in large swells !!!(Getting into the groove) It is for that reason catamarans are typically the preferred choice in smaller seas such as the Caribbean and Mediterranean where the larger swells are less likely to build as opposed to the larger oceans where swells have many thousands of miles to build !!! So BOTH are Grrr8888 choices,one just needs to consider what type and where they intend to be doing the majority of their cruising ! And you were also spot on with the cost analogy !!! Catamarans are MUCH more expensive aLLL the way around........Initial purchase,moorage,and mechanical upkeep !!! The MOST important thing is that you are completely happy and satisfied with your investment because if your are not happy with it you won't take as much of a concerted interest in taking care of it and THAT is what keeps it safe !!! I guess an exaggerated way to compare which would be the more comfortable ride would be to watch some of the race videos such as the Vendee Globe and Volvo ocean race for monohulls and The Jules Verne or Ostar videos for multi hulls and then ask yourself which looks like the more comfortable or safer ride ??? Either way,happy sailing !!! Todd S/V Imagine
Thanks for the comment Todd. It's good to hear from individuals with lots of experience. We spent a week on a 40ft cat recently and got to experience first hand a little bit of the discomfort of the "hobby horsing" from the cat. This was more do to that fact that we were in the Gulf and had steepish swells/waves at just 2-3 seconds apart. It was actually a little bit like riding a horse. We were beating into it which made it worse. But I could see how a comparable priced monohull would've been a lot heavier and a lot longer which would probably have smoothed things out a lot. The next day though the wind shifted and the waves were more rolly and on our beam and then it got much more comfortable. And here the multihull probably wins out. It's all trade offs. and like you said the people have more of an affect of the safety of the boat than anything. You were mentioning comfort in the open ocean and finding the groove. Do you think the biggest consideration there LWL? Or is weight equally important for that? Just curious. -Ryan
You got most of them! You missed catamarans generally having a shallower draft , more space for entertainment ( the cat is always the party boat in an anchorage) and from a safety consideration the redundancy of two engines/rudders/ props etc makes up for the extra maintenance! But we are a little bias :) Valhalla is a 43ft Voyage Cat
- Capacity for PV Solar Panels on a cat are much higher. On a smaller monohull it's much harder to find space for panels so the necessity to use your engine or a generator for domestic power supply will be more often and that will lead to the question " Fuel capacity " - Access to the water. In most cases getting into the water and back onto the boat the cat will win again. - Draft. A cat opens a lot more hidden anchorages than most mono's can access. - Constant motion. Most cats, especialy the smaller ones, tend to accelerate and decelerate leading to a jerky motion. Going from 8 to 11 knots back and forth at short intervals over a prolonged time period is very exhausting. Only very big cats are not prone to this. -Rolling anchorages. Another one goes to the cat. When the anchorage gets a swell, especialy when it's perpendicular to the wind a mono will become very uncomfortable. The combination of a protected helm and ample deck space is almost a cat only realm. Bluewater cruisers with a center cockpit like Amel's Oysters, Hallberg Rassys etc have very a well protected Helm and cockpit but at the cost of cockpit space. Monos with large cockpits usually have the helm right at the aft in a very exposed position. There is so much more one could write but in my opinion at the end of the day the real question is "what can you afford?"
Awesome thanks. All good points. Actually reminded me of a pro mono point, the high freeboard of a cat can make boarding from the dock to the side of a cat almost impossible with out stairs. Though some cats have steps grooved into the side to help with this. But yes, at the end of the day it all boils down to cost.
COST ... no matter the arguments for or against any boat configuration, the bottom line always seems to be "how much boat can you afford" ... unless you are a Trust Fund Baby :) I think you did a great job with your Compare and Contrast video, and that with the additional point raised here in the COmment Section, you've put together a valuable video on Cats versus Mono's. GOOD JOB !!
Find out what kind of boat you can afford and make sure you have double or triple the monetary resources ... if you want to use it a lot. Then one can sail to exotic locations and fix things on said boat! The redundancy and space and stability of a cat, seem to be the winning edge for me - so far... yes there is a cost, but having an extra engine - or water tank, while at sea, seems like a good deal to me.
Sorry I can't help myself - Mono vs Cat liveaboard cruising. I've always dreamed of seeing the world on a sail boat since I was about 18; like a lovely clipper ketch and on to the modern mono's as of up to 10 years ago . I'm now 64 and a convert to catamarans as use for this purpose (I now have one). As viewers watch these vids to make decisions on their choice of cruising craft I would like to point out a couple of very important facts with a cat not covered in your vid: 1. A lot of cats (as with mine) are designed not to sink when holed (both hulls) - cored with all types of buoyant materials from the waterline up. They also have shallow drafts for getting into anchorages inaccessible to most mopnos. 2. Sailing and anchored - Cats don't heel, don't roll they just "rock"; this is a godsend to living aboard. As I've watched many monos pull up anchor (after arriving "wasted" from the same sailed passage) because of what they describe as an uncomfortable anchorage (the same anchorage that rocks me to sleep). 3. Living aboard a cat is like living in an apartment on the water. Your view is at eye level through your "windows" and out onto your "verandah" when seated. Your not living in a cave like environment looking "up to" your "cockpit". Just a couple of facts for viewers to consider with their decision on an important purchase.
Thanks again! We welcome hearing people's real world experience. We're in full agreement with the not waning to live in a dark "cave". Since it'll be our home, we want it to be apartment like. But also functional. Cat's meet both of those criteria for us.
Cats all the way... one and only one issue... beam measurements presents issues sometimes everywhere and always when in a marina. As they pointed out, unless your in a marina in the middle of nowhere where sailors don’t go or it’s way off-season, ... good luck finding a spot near civilization. More likely your spot would be at the end of a very long harbor/marina/dock... best to moor outside and bring in the dinghy... but that sucks when everyone else is docked at “restaurant row” and you have to motor in, look for a spot to tie up dinghy... AND walk to “restaurant row”..... nice to be able to dock where all you have to do is hop off and your “there’, wherever there is... One more thing... someday, we would like to do the canal thing in France all the way to Scandinavia via the Netherlands on the mast up route... there might be issues using a cat on this trip.... still researching....
I like mono hulls compared to cats. A friend of mine had a cat and he always said later it was double everything like trouble, cost, moorage fees. It was like a really nice condo on the inside though. I just dont like them. Ill be saving up for years for a mono hulled blue water cruising boat.
I was looking at going for a cat, then got up close and personal with an Oyster at the Annapolis boat show. Damn those boats are beautiful. There is something to be said for aesthetics.
Another thing with Cats is due to their youth, newer cats have much better interior layouts than older ones. With monohulls pretty much every configuration has already been done and you can find an old one with the layout you want. "Old" cats, on the other hand, can have some pretty awful layouts compared to what has been done in the last 5 years.
You have Redundancy on a Cat not found on a Mono. Additionally you can beach a catamaran in an emergency. With Beach wheels you and a winch you can even completely pull it out of the water for a remote location repair.
Getting it out of the water is pretty easy if you have a sandy beach, getting it back in the water might be tough cause they are heavy boats! I wonder if the windlass could pull the boat on beechwheels back into the water?
Peter d'Entremont So people say. Insurance companies say otherwise. The one i crewed on cracked open. check the manufacturers dry load information. Some will only take 450kg of payload when on sand.
if you ve fucked up that bad that you need to beach any type of sea vessel,you should probabky call help.I dont see the advantage here, i mean,you can beach a monohull too with low tide.I do however get that cats have an advantage if you wan to go to say the bahamas where the water is shallow
There's coastal cruising and then there's ocean cruising. A cat would be perfect for the first, a mono for the second. Make sure of your decision for your specific plans. Love yall. -A
Really good summary of some of the differences between catamaran and monohull, particularly sailing safely. You've done good research so far. What you describe as a barrel roll in some cases could be caused by broaching. Broaching is where the wind causes the boat to turn so much that it can capsize, i.e., extreme weather helm due to too much sail; usually spinnaker. Broaching is generally caused by being overpowered, as you mentioned separately. Audio's a bit distorted. Turn down the microphone gain. Lapel microphones would work best. (Cruising) catamarans do heel, but so much less than a monohull that one doesn't think of them as heeling. Catamarans have a bad reputation for capsizing and turning turtle because they're easier to see upside down in the water. It's much harder to see a monohull upside down because they're more likely to sink in a capsize and therefore not be visible. In other words, it's a perceptual bias that cats are unsafe because they remain visible when turtled, whereas monohulls are more likely to sink and not be visible. There may be some measurements in open class races in big storms. Certainly insurance companies would have data on sinkings, though even that could be biased where the monhull folks die and thus never file an insurance claim whereas the cat folks survive to file a claim.
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah we're working around to getting a shotgun mic and some lapel mics. I'm hoping for some black friday or cyber monday sales. It'd be interesting to see those stats but I bet there must be some sort of bias like you say. Especially with a confirmation bias around catamarans flipping. People look for the photos of it online, find it, and it "confirms" their previously held beliefs that cats were untrustworthy. We all do stuff like that though, which is why some "official" numbers would be so illuminating.
She seemed so distracted and uninterested, the server echoing of your vocals was really distracting from any technical information provided. Kinda ruined this video.
Writen from Carla Schenk.( translatet by app) Half a hundred arguments for the catamaran The catamaran offers more security 1) A cat can not sink. 2) Even if the ship has to be left, there is enough time to take necessary utensils that can not be accommodated in the liferaft for reasons of space. monos can sink within a few minutes. 3) A cat sails upright, the ship movements are more comfortable. This reduces the risk of injury and the possibility to fall overboard. 4) At sea, working in the mast is safer. 5) Similarly, work on the foredeck is less risky and more comfortable. 6) The service in the pantry is less tiring and less dangerous on a cat. The Smut does not need to fight against slipping dishes and overflowing boiling soup. 7) Our cat has two engines, which brings double safety. 8) A cat has two oars, if necessary can also be controlled with one. 9) Due to the stable situation, the mental burden for the sailor is lower, on a cat there is less seasickness. 10) When stranded on level sand or mud, the cat will stay upright and will have little problems with rising water. 11) The enormous width of the mast makes it easier to lock. 12) Spi or Genakker are driven without a tree. The sails are easier and safer to set, rifle and retrieve. 13) A cat is faster, which shortens the journey time. The catamaran is a space wonder 14) Our cat has four self-contained cabins, providing plenty of privacy, especially if relatives, friends or children are on board. (A cabin may be set up as an office or workshop.) 15) For larger Kats there are in the foredeck of the hulls additionally each a room with shelves for spare parts, tools and tools. 16) The large cockpit (2.70 m by 4 m in our case), which I refer to as an "outdoor salon", is an additional habitat, especially in the Mediterranean and in the tropics, where life mainly takes place outdoors. 17) Our cat offers enough headroom in the cabins, in the salon and under the bimini. 18) There is enough space on the Bimini, the deckhouse and the foreship for solar cells. A generator is not necessary) 19) The dinghy can be driven on deck. 20) There is enough space on deck for additional diesel and water in canisters. 21) To realize the size of salon at this ship length with no mono. 22) There is enough space to take paying guests on board. 23) A cat is child friendly. the large cockpit is a safe playground for children. 24) An appropriate foredeck invites you to sunbathe and nap. 25) On a Kat is plenty of storage space. Comfort as in the luxury hotel 26) Due to the lower draft, it is possible to anchor closer to the shore so that you can row the few meters to land and save the outboard. 27) An anchorage in shallower water in bays is often better protected against wind and swells. 28) At anchorages avoided by Monos because of the swell, catfish are often still relatively calm. 29) Cleaning and lashing of objects is not necessary before departure. 30) Plastic dishes can be dispensed with. Also at sea is eaten by the porcelain. 31) No problem arises when storing dishes and bottles. On the way there is no rattling and no shards. 32) Bottles and dishes stay on the table even in harsher weather, you can eat at sea as well as in the noble restaurant. 33) In light winds, a cat drives against the engine as if on rails, a support sail can be dispensed with, no rolling, no pushing in, no sail beating. 34) The cat rolls relatively little on the downwind course. Even before the wind, there are hardly any sailing hits and impressions. due to the width, the headsail can be better fixed. 35) A cardan stove or table is superfluous on a cat. 36) A cat has no bunks but beds. Sleep at sea is more relaxing, leeches are not necessary, there is no risk of falling out of the berth. 37) If only one engine is used on the way, you can sleep soundly in the other bow without noise pollution. 38) Under the Bimini wet clothes or clothing can be hung to dry, the wetness remains outside the cabin. 39) The cockpit of the cat is relatively high and is not covered by other ships during the stay in Marinas, so it is airy and often offers a nice view. 40) When the heat is high, the space between the hulls is suitable for swimming in the shade. 41) Our cat turns on the plate by simply maneuvering with two machines. A bow thruster is superfluous. 42) For a converted room, a cat is much cheaper to buy than a mono. 43) At the rear there is enough space to mount brackets for stern anchor and outboard motor. 44) Drying is less complicated than mono and above all safer. 45) Kats have a comfortable entrance instead of a narrow decline. 46) The salon looks bright and friendly through large windows. 47) Drains go directly into the water, the risk of clogging is low. 48) TV, video and microwave do not need to be installed. They stay in place even in tougher weather. 49) Through the exit hatch can be fished directly from the salon. 50) If mud and dirt are caught while anchoring, the anchor cleans itself if you drag it between the hulls for a short time through the water. The mono would hit the anchor against the bow.
Cats win hands-down in my opinion due to one single fact: a shallow draft. You can maneuver a cat far more easily in tricky areas; such as the Caribbean for instance. Yes; in terms of speed the mono wins on longer passages; but remember; this is not a race, this is enjoying sailing. So what if I arrive a few days later. Am I in a rush to be anywhere? Maybe I should have taken a plane.
A good clear discussion of cat vs mono. Here are links to over 25 articles on choosing a boat. www.adventuresonboats.com/buying-a-boat.html -johnny PS - I am a cat person
Sailed both types, and I feel safer on a mono in force 10 than on a cat in force 7. I can just about handle any force of wind, any sea state, on any point of sail with a monohull, but I cannot say that much for a cat.Consequences of a round up, or knock down, or broach on a monohull are a lot less severe than on a cat.Modern monohulls, although not as wide as cats, can have 5 m beam and even more for a 15m boat (50 ft) , making them very spacy inside. Monohulls also come with very efficient variable draft keels of all types. Draft on some 50 footers can be varied from 3m to 1m.Modern cruising boats, can sail at double digit speeds in total safety, and surf at 16 or 18 knots in total comfort.marina fees for cats are horrendous compared to monohulls.Most 50ft monohulls are wide enough nowadays to have davits on their stern to carry the dinghy just like on a cat.But in the end, it is what you want to do, how you want to do it and where you want to sail that will determine selecting a cat or a mono.
One thing came into mind as pro for cats: privacy. In a typical cruising cat the cabins are at the ends of the hulls, which means there's no other cabin right behind the wall.
Love the informative video, For an Old Fart sailing I feel the Catamaran is the way to go! As we age we don't heal well and all that bouncing around in a Mono Hull we might not do to well at keeping out balance underway! But for you younger Sailors you can go either way! I feel I could go either direction but do not feel the wife would enjoy a Mono Hull, Thanks For Sharing looking forward to future video's.
Cats are for the people that sail to get to the next sundowner., and do everything possible to avoid weather. Monohulls are for The people who see anchorage as a nuisance, and would rather thrash through a storm than sit in port. You Will not see many cats out there in heavy seas, by choice. There is a very good reason that cats were developed in the Pacific, by a people that are renown for chilling out, and monohulls were developed by people who built cargo and military ships that had to be out there no matter what, in the atlantic, in winter. Motion at sea is a preference, not an absolute. The motion of a cat in seas bigger than a meter is disturbing to some. Also, if you try going windward in a chop, cats relentlessly slap their bridge decks. Monohulls roll relentlessly on a downwind run in light airs, with swell. Cats cost much more per pound than monohulls, and are much lighter in construction, Cats carry less load. Cats have more space. Etc. I don't understand why there is an argument. They are just different. If you have a healthy bank account, and want to sail in the tropics, for the main purpose of moving from one diving spot or beach to another, then get a cat. If you have less money, or want to sail through cold water, weather, or to voyage far, then get a monohull.
Very well done guys, THANKS! Most important Cat advantage I know of is their being able to sail in very shallow water for island hopping etc. BUT for me, the dangers of being caught in bad weather, high seas (which is 110% going to happen) is enough for me to never get sucked into the "room enough to make the gals happy) cat. Safety first because #1 I want to bring everyone back alive, myself included.
maybe i'm a relick at my age and i started sailing Cat's just few years ago but i still feel more sailing pleasure doing so on a Mono then in cat cat's are great taking the grandchildrens for a weekend sailing but even they prefer sailing on my old 45.5 mono
Hi Guys,I went through the same dilemma as you, a few years ago, and found my ideal boat in 48ft alloy cat. I had a couple of other criteria, which may interest you.Do some research on delamination in foam and balsa cored cat hulls, there is a plethora of storied out there of cats, leaking water after the owners drilled a hole into the hull, only to discover the balsa or foam was waterlogged. Once delamination starts between the core substrate and the fiberglass, it is very difficult to stop. It is not a problem with solid fiberglass mono hulls.There is also a lot of big stuff floating out there. I got a big fright when I saw a whole tree with a 4ft girth floating off PNG, so one of my selection criteria was daggerboards, pop up rudders and propeller shafts not sail-drives. Also the number of whales going up the Australian east coast in increasing by 10% per annum. An adult humpback is as long as my boat and 3-4times as heavy, and they sleep on the surface at night. The number of boats hitting whales is increasing. My boat cruises at 10kts plus, so I make sure the daggerboard are up at night. My boat has an inner forestay, to stiffen up the mast, when using the second and third reef in the main. She came with a stay-sail that hanks onto it. With the third reef and the stay-sail, the boat is comfortable up to 30kts of wind, after which the main is dropped. A cat is a lot dryer and easier to do deck work on than a mono. Enjoy the journey, it took me a few years of research to find my ideal boat.Cheers Franciswww.sailinglogic.net
Just checked out your site and boat! Good stuff! Thanks for sharing. Its good to hear some real world experiences. Also I had no idea whales were increasing so quickly there!
This is such a loaded conversation. I have been a Catamaran and mono hull sailor for over 25 years and i will say they each have there pros and cons. but for cruising you cant beat a cat. hands down. and as for up wind performance its a bit of a myth. we just sail at the same speed as a comparable mono hull up wind. yes we lose the off the wind performance we normally enjoy but cats dont suck up wind. in fact there great because my Beer stays on the table and does not fall off. Jessica that is why there was no cup holder on that Cat you seen. here is a great PDF on Cats and how to sail them for anyone interested. Stay positive and sail fast.fotocontato.com.br/uploads/triplog/Catamarans%20The%20Complete%20Guide%20for%20Cruising%20Sailors%202008%20Tarjan%200071596224.pdf
I wish the same explanation also exists for fishing types like a 7-9 meter hull Monohaul and Catamaran with a 2.5 to 3 meter beam . If possible, can you guys make a video about it? Especially when it comes to waves and rough conditions.
Someone may misunderstand at 6:50. "...mono will sit rightside up at the BOTTOM of the ocean" Not sure where that comes from. I have seen many monos purposely flipped, and they self righted. My mono is difficult to capsize and when I manage to put it on it's side it springs right up. Ocean going boats don't just sink from a knock down. Not sure why this is going around the internet.
This comparison of traits is not limited to 'being flipped' it's simply comparing worst case scenarios. A cat CAN flip, but will almost always float wether flipped or holed or whatever. A mono CAN sink. Not from being flipped per se, but from taking on enough water for whatever reason. I guess the idea is they both have a pretty bad downside that the other doesn't have. As such, it's not an argument that either boat gets to 'win.' One is not inherently safer than the other. Just different. Truth is Cat's don't flip often and mono's don't often sink on passage. I wouldn't be choosing a boat based on these factors personally.
Having sailed a cat Coccus keeling to Perth WA 1700nm into a SE trades.Sailing into 30kns ,strong current and 2+metre waves. The best we could sail was 120 degress to the wind and current. After 5 days we had sailed to approx 100nm from Christmas Island. Which is ENE of Coccus keeling, We could feel the curent as each wave would rotate the yacht and move us NW After 12 days we crossed our Run line and we had made less than 500 nm in distance. Each hull slamed off every wave and you could not leave anything on the table as it would eventually fall off. Cats will sink just like a monohull.and they do capsize and do dont upright them selves
I think it just depends on what you are looking for in a yacht. I don't see where you are at anymore disadvantage on maintenance in a cat than you are a mono. With modern diesels if you keep up on your preventive maintenance they should last you quite awhile and be very reliable. In a mono as well as a cat, a prudent sailor will always keep an eye on weather and reef early. You really don't want to be on the foredeck changing sails in a good blow. I think docking in a cat may be easier for a novice to learn, but my HR 53' with bow and stern thruster will lie along side just as well as a cat. If you sail long enough you are eventually going sail in less than ideal conditions. When the wind is at 40Kn and the seas are 15-20 and cresting, I will take a mono. I think you are doing the right way. Get lots of experience in local waters before heading offshore. There is an old saying ''The sea is a harsh mistress'' She won't tolerate to many mistakes.
I agree with earlier posts that it matters where you will be sailing. BVI's vs Tampa Bay for example. My opinion: People that want to conquer the wind and truly love 'sailing' choose monohulls. Cats are for the party animals and credit card captains that enjoy taking groups out. I've watched a few of your videos and I can't tell yet if you learned to sail because of the challenge and love of the sport, or you're looking to spend time in tropical paradise and look good doing it with minimal effort. Can't wait to see what you decide!
+Bill Crawford I think for us we're a bit of a mixture. We're not party animals, but we're also not die hard born again sailing enthusiasts. Nothing again people who are either though as I can see the appeal either way. We do like tropical beaches, but we also like wild beaches and mountains and deserts and foreign lands. For us, at heart, we're travelers and explorers. We've been travelers and explorers for a while now, but only fairly recently did we figure out that we could actually using sailing as the means by which we travel. Maybe it seems obvious like "of course you can travel the world in a sailboat" but for us, growing up we weren't exposed to it so it always seemed unattainable. We traveled enough to know that living out of a large backpack for extended periods of time is an unsustainable lifestyle. Staying in hotels and AirBnbs is like renting an apartment, you're just paying for someone elses space, you never own any thing or build equity. For us our boat will be our home and workhorse. The whole point is to create a sustainable lifestyle as opposed to some short term jaunt around the world. To that end, our priorities are capability and comfort. If we didn't care about long distance capability we'd just get a trawler. Hope that makes sense! Thanks for the comment.
What about solar powered catamaran yachts? ;) Solar panels have gotten so cheap it should be cheaper now than diesel powered boats if you don't get too much battery storage.
Shallow water cats rule...monohulls draft too much water for say a great experience in the bahamas..large monohulls even have difficulties in some marinas needing to watch the tides like a hawk just to be able to float. You didn't mention monohulls that use alternate keel systems.
One of most honest comparison I have seen so far. The funny bit is that just based on body language you clearly can see who the biggest catamaran fan is ;-)) Nothing new under sun here!
The one thing I think was missing is comparing comfort/ease in handling for a couple, as well as safety in that regard. Thank you for sharing this video I found it very informative.
Oh interesting point. And there might be a larger topic there in general for another video with regard to what to look for in a boat to be sailed by a couple. Thanks for the idea! ;)
Never sailed on one, but they seem fast and look like spaceships. that's about the extent of my knowledge. We'll have to chat with some folks who know more about them. Maybe do an interview. People say that trimarans are the best of both worlds but do cost a lot.
Just some thoughts about things you didn't mention. Draft. Generally, catamarans will be shallower draft. Rolly. Catamarans are less rolly at anchor. Fun. Monohulls are more "fun" and "glorious" to sail. The "feel" of sailing a catamaran is "dumbed down." So, it is less fun, but also the impact in heavy weather is dumbed down making long passages significantly more comfortable. Motion. Catamarans have an awkward motion that makes some people seasick that would not otherwise get seasick. Monohulls have a more pronounced motion, but it isn't awkward like a cat. Redundancy. 2 engines make for serious redundancy. Our cat can pretty much go anywhere on 1 engine. Backing on 1 engine is the problem. Hull slap. Catamarans have hull slap which seems super wrong when it happens. Just something that catamaran people have to get used to. My verdict is this. Go sailing on a monohull for the afternoon. Go sailing on a catamaran for a trip.
Your motor breaks down on a mono hull , your getting an expensive tow bill, cats have two. cats get into shallower water. Many myths about cats. People, when they can afford it switch to a cat. rarely see people go from a cat to a mono. When on passage, in a mono you go below to the dungeon, on a cat you go inside, sit at a table that's not tipped up on it's side, look out and enjoy the view. Living in a mono is like living in a basement apartment. Don't see where people get info on overloading a cat. Can load a cat like a mono (actually cats have much more storage space), loose about 10 to 15% of speed (and get some bridge deck slap) but no big deal, it isn't about speed it's about comfort. To each his own but me grandfadder said to me when I was small, any fool can be uncomfortable but the really foolish trick themselves into believing they are comfortable when they are not. But with a cat you have to be aware of whats going on when at anchor. By the time the boat starts rolling the mono's have their storm anchors out
Mazda rx7 From cat to mono? After my last storm, you now know someone who went to a safe mono. Will never blue water in a cat again. rivers and coastal...no problem.
40 foot cat 50-55 mono is your comparison for internal volume. Cruising cats do not have higher speeds based all ocean passages times recorded by the ARC/Pacific puddle jump etc. There is a reason for not having Davits. Cats are built for the charter market and are used in calm waters BVI bahamas etc. and a 40-45 foot cats charter can be split by 8 people thus the cost per person is less than a mono. What does a cruising couple of two do with the extra staterooms? Monos are easily sailed solo or by two people.You will feel any increase of wind or sea state in a mono by its motion and or increased heel which is a depower function as you stated cats dont do this. Cats make the best floating hotels and this is what they where designed for. If your goal is motoring down the Thorny path in the Carribean or BVI bar hopping or Florida gunkholing or Marina living. Cat wins on several fronts. Livability for landlubbers Draft ability to handle guests.Sunbathing and drunken trampoline parties. Adventure sailing not so much.Can it be done? sure to a limit but more crew will be needed. A couple comments on your comments.Cat or mono...no one stays in a rolly anchorage long...not really an issue.And wine drinking underway is not a issue either.Instead of expounding on a subject where you have limited experience suggest you buy the boat that suits your needs and enjoy it
It all comes down to whether you prefer motorcycles or cars. Motorcycles have less room, don't go as fast generally, are more prone to the elements. But they're more fun. Leaning them over is a blast. Cars are more stable, faster, have more space but you're more disconnected to your surroundings. Monohulls are more connected to the sea. Cats are just easier to live with. It depends how you get your fun.
Good vid thanks. LOL on a Polynesian romanticism of Cat. I could just see it, Polynesians sailing to the sun, finding the Polynesian island, and continued to the Americas and brought back potatoes back to Polynesia. And they did! hahahaha. Sorry Columbus fan, it appears he was not the first to discover the Americas. Great video again guys thanks .
Hello!!! , we are designing a 48ft catamaran, and we would like to invite you to participate in its design that you would win a catamaran at a cost below 100k for its interior customization
Super informative thanks. We faced the same debate and ended up buying a monohull last week for our own adventure. For us it boiled down to budget. Subscribed.
I want a cat but overall the mono is an easier proposition. Especially when its haul out time. The biggest mono that will take an outboard motor would be the ticket. Screwing around with an inboard engine is a big hassle.
@@TheJHCDigital I think the US Coast Guard claims to have such a thing but my thought on "Cat Problems" is how to stop them once they get moving not "they can't self-right." Sounds good tho..
You guys missed a critical comparison: which one increases a skipper's chances of having women crew and reduces the probability of his sailing solo forever and becoming a lonely old salt? Paw's down winner = CATs forever.
Great summary. I love sailing a big mono upwind, loads of fun....after 3-4 hours I've had enough. I like cats. But as we know it's more about the adventure than the boat.
Like you mentioned about Polynesian catamaran ancient style - they have been around and in many forms. The other aspect is the Trimaran - they have been great racing boats and another option to consider. Some of these in cruiser layout can make 12 knots all day long and hot 16 + so wow that can make a passage cut by over 50% . These are also likely older and cheaper than a Cat boat. The Prout is probably one the better ones for a value boat - they have been around a while ttoo. * If the catamaran does capsize and crew are inside - some do have an escape hatch, bu if your;s does not - have a battery powerd sawzall ready, cut a nice clean hole and save that piece, then climb out ...then after the fact, tape it back together with water proof marine tape ! This is a very rare event though. In the amount of maintenance - well a Mono hull s much larger and deeper, plus harder to beach for simple cleaning. Smaller sq feet in the water and much smaller area - but x2 , so not sure if what you say is correct as to more maint. on a Cat . I think they are much more friendly for living aboard and - hey keep that diner on the table.... and in your belly ! Multi-hulls got it
Yeah. Trimarans are interesting for sure. A lot of the older ones don't really offer much in the way of living space below decks. They're kinda like narrow beam monos in that regards. But the newer tri's are making some interesting headway towards liviability and accommodations. I'll be curious to see what designs pop up over the next 10 yrs. In the mean time we'll be just fine with a cat. :)
You left out draft. Particularly on a dagger board cat. There are some dagger board cats that can scooch up into 2 to 2 1/2 feet of water. Big advantage in sketchy anchorages and it vastly increases the possible choices for hurricane hole opportunities. Subsequently, the draft of dagger board cats are a big advantage in both safety and comfort. And even with mini-keel cats the daft can be half the draft of a mono hull, be for me the wretched upwind performance is a deal killer.
The aspect of the big picture is this : Where do you want to sail ? Where will you be sailing to - or some just live for cheap dockside lifestyle ! Some great and well outfitted boats can be found in off shore exotic ports . c h e a p I heard about an old family friend that was ex-Navy avid sailor, had many boats.. finally took his lifetime dream voyage .... that turned into a nightmare with 3 storms on the way to Fiji. Ha - they sold that damn boat in Fiji and flew home - never to sail again I might guess ! Did I mention he took his lady friend along on this voyage?? Somehow I imagine her being in hysteria ! Some just have bad luck the first time out on serious cruises.... and some will be wise in their choice of crew !
You guys should have way more subscribers! There's a lot of "sailing adventure" channels right now, but I haven't seen any that actually talk about the sailing part. It's all about drone footage of the beautiful places they get to without really covering the details of how they got there. I really like all the things you cover that are a bit more technical. Good luck to you and I will definitely be following your channel.
Hey thanks! Some day in the not too distant future we'll have our share of drone footage and tropical beaches, but yeah we want to show both the locations but also the adventure of just sailing and all the adventures (and misadventures) that brings. I figure as soon as we actually get a boat we'll get a lot more subscribers. In the meantime we'll document the "preboat" part of the journey. Thanks for the comment!
Highly recommend you check out Nikki and Jason www.gonewiththewynns.com/ if you haven't already. Having just gone through what you're planning they can probably give you a good idea of what to expect cost wise.
Hi Jamie, thanks, we do watch the Nikki & Jason and have learned a lot. We're going to take a slightly different strategy than them which we're hoping will cost us less. But we also don't have as much of a budget as them so we'll have to take a slightly different tack. But yeah, we've learning a ton from them. Also from their videography, their style is so bright & colorful!
Really appreciate your efforts here. I have been scouring the Net for this type of information and your perspective and thoughts are exactly what I was looking for. I am looking to get into sailing and have been trying to get the right kind of infomation to point me in the right direction of how to start the process. Your videos were very illuminating. Thanks again!
nicely done, and I favour cats... except for purchase costs, availability, maintenance costs, insurance costs, cost & availability of slips/docks in marinas... which is why i've spent my life owning mono's. But if money were NO OBJECT, I would run down to the local Outremer dealer and order up a 4x, or 5x, or maybe a Nautitech Bavaria Open design... *** sigh ***
in summary, the only negative for Cats is COSTS (all of the costs). I do not buy into the argument that mono's are safer. Would you rather be upside down on top of the water, or, right-side up at the bottom of the ocean (what a waste of time argument that is). The benefits of a Cat over a mono are just too numerous to mention. But, i live on a budget, money is a concern, so i own two monos, and probably always will...
Hmmm, just tie the monos together with some super glue and duct tape and I think you have a cat! lol. But yeah, personally we'd tend to agree, the only real downside is the whole money thing.
So, J&R... I subscribed a while back, somewhere in the middle of your journey, and now have gone back to see your initial reasoning for buying the cat vs mono since that's ultimately what you did and the place I find myself in now...leaning toward cat after years of only considering a mono. I am 3-6months from my early retirement and seriously ready to get mine in a slip to begin working toward my future sailing adventures. I'm a single 54yr old female with little experience since my teens. At this stage in life, comfort is key, however cash is still king. I know anchoring out saves $$ and marina stays are significantly more for cats than monos...and harder to come by. Approximately what are you two spending monthly for your life aboard the cat...not including OB/GYN costs, since those days are behind me, LOL!! Matt & Jessica do a great job outlining monthly expenditures, as does Abandon Comfort, and occasionally Ruby Rose or Follow the Boat will share monthly costs but they are all monohulls... Is it truly unmanageable? Do you two just have unlimited income? Or can I make a budget retirement work on a used cat in fairly decent shape? I'm afraid I'm fooling myself on costs just because that's the answer I prefer...
No boat can fit all the requirements and conditions one meets. There is one issue which needs to be considered and that, in a sailing mono hull, the centre of gravity is always below the centre of buoyancy except when the boat is upside down, in which condition it will roll back to normal position, in total safety. I am not referring to the planing fast single hulls made of carbon fibre whose dead weight was known to have severed. A full keeled cruising boat is what I am referring to. A catamaran has its centre of gravity above the centre of buoyancy and that will makes it rock laterally much faster and if it capsizes then it will stay upside down. A fast rolling action in a boat will tire out the crew very quickly in a few days but a full keeled boat will give a pleasant long journey to the occupiers. So I would say that for long, very long journeys where one can get caught out of harbour and cannot make it to a cosy harbour in time then a single hull with dead weight under it is advisable as it is more comfortable and safer. If one goes on short cruises where one can make harbour very quickly relatively speaking, then a catamaran will do and if one spends a lot of time anchored at a marina well then, the obvious choice is a catamaran.
Ive seen lots of monos come up from a roll with no...well all with broken masts, but some had a part of the cabin ripped off. Then theyre getting the lift raft ready incase another wave gets in and floods the cabin. Some with mast almost going through the side of the hull
I have owned 3 monohulls in the past. lenghts 35' 41' 50'. All bought previously owned. I switched to multihull... a used Lagoon 500 cat (50') also previously owned. And a few years ago traded that in for a Privilege Series 7. (74') Almost new. For sailing thrills I have a Hobie F18 Wildcat. It literally sails circles around any monohull. Having a small high performance multihull for fun avoids the enormous expensive if you want high performance combined with luxury. If this is important I reccomend looking at a Gunboat cat. I have done several ocean crossings and would not do a monohull ocean crossing again unless I was paid really well to do it. I would however, reccomend a beginning sailor to get a monohull though. I am convinced they make you a better sailor.
Monohulls starting to use gyro-stabilizers. TOTAL miss BUT we're adding complexity now too...and of course a laugh and smile at comfort gives the whole "balanced approach" away..
Ok so here one for the catamarans unique to the modern era :P If you put a solar roof on a 12 meter catamaran, and leave on the jib as a standard booster, you will have reliable and virtually costless speed and energy! (though, to be honest, trimarans would be the masters iff they weren't so expensive: the perfect size/weight/surface area for a solar/wind hybrid^^).
At the time I am writng this I am sailing near Cozumel. With A Sailor FBB satellite link I find it extremely easy to sail around to avoid hurricanes and storms. I find it disgusting that so many people leave multi-million dollar boats in a port they know will get hit. It makes my insurance premiums go up to pay for their new boat.
When i google which boat is more likely to flip it always just says mono will turn back around after flipping, but catamarans wont sink. Can i get a simple answer on which of the two is MORE LIKELY to flip in the first place please?
It's... just not a comparable thing even really. On a mono with a weighted keel you can be smashed over so far the sail is in the wind shadow of the hull and it won't 'flip.' It would take a swell or something to help get the sail actually into the water, but yeah, then it's 99.99% going to right itself. Basically a non issue. One could almost say that they don't flip, but of course anything can and does happen. On a catamaran, with enough load, you can lift one hull out of the water and possibly get it to go past 90 deg at which point the boat is going to settle into an inverted position. Also, in high enough waves, cats (particularly shorter cats) can 'pitchpole.' This is when the bow goes underwater and the boat does a forward flip. I guess the TL:DR is if you are really scared of flipping don't get a cat. If you are really scared of sinking don't get a mono.
I'm at 0 hulls too. The day I bought my 30 foot mono haul, first mini yacht, I remember being so happy. And after a fantastic live aboard sailing summer, I remember being equally as happy the day I sold it. No more repairs or no winter marina fees, etc. Funny thing is on the day I bought it, and on the day I sold it, 2 different strangers, who were sea men, walked up and said the same thing to me. "The happiest day of a man life is when he buys his boat, and the 2nd happiest day is when he sells it." : )Lol. it seemed true to me. I wonder your thought on this? The insight you both shared on mono vs cat was very cool. Although I have never sailed a cat, I love the living space, the speeds they cruise at, the comforts and luxury, the shallow draft, the dual engines, and well laid out decks. Leaning about cats has resulted in my lost interest in mono hauls. I feel if I ever own a sail boat again it will be a cat between 40 and 50 feet long. But, they are more expensive in a big way, and that may be the ultimate road block for me to overcome. I sailed rough lakes and oceans in different mono haul boats and I always felt they were better and safer in stormy weather then cats could be in the same conditions. From your video, I concluded it would more likely be the captains knowledge and decisions that is the greatest factor in which boat is better in a storm. Nice video. Thanks for sharing.
you need to decide what sort of weather sailor you are , and if your only going to get limited use of any boat. Mono's and definitely fin keeled have to me moored well off shore , cats especially Wharram ones can just beach. Also depending on set up, some monos will need a minimum strength of wind to even move . Cats not so. If a cat is not over rigged it wont capsize, and the motion is so much more kindly. less sea sickness and discomfort. Thinking too big for either equals less fun for a multitude of reasons.
Hey guys I appreciate the information. I would like to give some constructive criticism. In this video there were over 13 cuts/splices on first person video in the first 60 secs. Learning how to blend your video with your software or just narrating with voice over on video or photos would help with this explanation and cut down the number of glitches the viewer will see.
Thanks for the vid folks, this is a tough convo with a lot of opinions. I love that you went topic by topic and really worked through all the data. I'd love to see a follow up video 3 years later. How on target to you think your previous views were, are you still feeling like you are on the right boat, ect? Thanks so much, first vid I've seen from you, you got a new sub today. I hope to keep following!
Have to add, 35 years on the ocean now retired waiting for my new boat so looking at all sailing vids etc.
I have had mono-hulls and sailed a lot on cats in the pacific where they are very popular. I sold my Bavaria 46 in September. Now having a cat built in France.. December pick-up and can not wait.
Desk research is great but here is some real world feedback.
You forgot to talk about draft of boat which is very important. A cat can get closer in shore, more anchoress and sail over sand bars that would ground a mono. If your cat has dagger boards then you can sale it with only a few feet of water. Not that I would do it but cats can be safly beached for work, repair.
Simplicity of rigging. Have a look at cats rigging vrs a mono-hull. And with a cat a code D/0 etc are so much easier to install/deploy.
Maintenance. No it does not cost more to maintain a cat. You have two engines etc. But when you motor a cat most tend to use only one engine and even at modest revs a cat will motor with one engine at around 6 plus knots. So while you have to do service on two engines you tend to have service intervals twice as long between them.
Also, criticality in when you have to fix things, (this is a big one). When an engine fails on a mono-hull you have to fix it then and there or sail at risk. With a cat you can still sail motor etc for quite a while and fix the motor when it's convenient and easier. If your power generation is main motor driven then you could loose power for auto-pilot, winches, fridges, anchor windless, electronics gear as batteries drain real quickly. It then becomes critical to have it fixed then and there and if you are in the middle of nowhere in rough weather.... Yep know that one.
Loose your rudder on a mono and you have an A class problem, on a cat you loose one you can still use the other to get you home. Yep know of people with that one.
Anchoring, the cat is more comfy and yes it points into the wind, but is not as effected by currents as much especially in windy conditions. Have had my boat point into the current, but wind coming across the beam, not pleasant.
Size is critical, a cat of 45 feet plus sails real well and drogues are never needed. Sailed the pacific for 6 weeks on a 440 and nothing at the back was needed and we had waves more then 4 meters. Smaller sized cats maybe, but hard to find a cruising cat smaller then 40 or so.
A 40 foot cat is like a 46 mono. Somewhat true in older cats. The gap is more pronounced in newer cats. . The bigger the cat gets the bigger this ratio. A new 40 cat like lagoon 400 is closer to a 50. In a lagoon 400 you 3-4 staterooms, two heads, two separate showers, multiple fridge freezers, big forward storage lockers, bow storage, big saloon, big galley, cockpit etc. Add up the usable space and you come up with a higher ratio. Look at a Saba 50 and a 60 foot mono-hull does not match it.
Weight, yes weight is an issue, especially for older or high performance catamarans. But a catamaran of 45-50 has 4-6 tonnes capacity. Do you know how much weigh that is. Have 4 people on board and it could be a car in weight for each. Only hordes will have an issue.
Green boat. On most cats you have heaps of space to put solar panels, wind gens, hydro gens. A 40 foot cat can easily have up to 1KW of solar a D400 wind gen and a hydro gen of the back. I have come across cruisers on cats, with panels etc and never use their gensets except when they want to run the AC / washing machine. A 45 cat you can do a lot of solar. For long term cruising this is a big plus. Even a 40-42 cat you can hang a lot of the back.
The biggest benefit of a cat is liveability. Its easy to walk around the decks as they are flat, the trampoline, the bow pulpit seats add a lot. The raised helm position with lines running to it., the saloon-cockpit-to-water path. Position for paddle boards of davits, scuba tanks, dive compressors. Not to mention visitors sea sickness. My Bavaria was good but comes nowhere near to my mates 440.
Yes the cost is the big one but as a live aboard or world cruiser. It can not be beat, hope people look at what is written here.
But then again the best boat is the one you can afford to buy outright with no debts and you just sail within limits.
Good luck in your journey, take a 3-5 year view and you can have that right boat.
Hey Mick, congrats on your new boat! Very exciting. And thanks for your input, we really appreciate hearing from people with real world experience like you.
In the video we tried to be as unbiased as possible. That being said, personally, we're of the catamaran persuasion for pretty much all the reasons you listed. It's good to hear that maintenance isn't actually twice as expensive in practice.
Quick question since you have the experience. For budget purposes we're probably looking to get a Lagoon 400. But we're considering saving for longer to get a 440. Once concern I have is exposure on the flybridge during bad whether or night watches on passages. The idea of someone having to get out and go up the stairs at night if the weather is foul potentially concerns me. But I realize my mental picture might not match reality. I'd be curious what your take is on this? Any thoughts?
Hi,
Here is my feedback and there are many people that also have feedback on this.
If there is only two of you both boats will do you well. The fly bridge issue is there and yes when wet an windy can be uncomfortable, with downloadable weather charts you can reduce that but you will still get into situations like that. On most nights it can be great up there as you have a view of the stars you can not match. But on a windy wet rough nights...well it was a slog. On most days is great up there, but with only two on board the dynamics might be different. There were 4 of us so we did not feel isolated.
The biggest issue is boom hight, you can get to back part easily enough but upfront there are steps on the mast, so you can do it. At 20, - 30 years of age it is easily manageable at 56 (well yo do not want to do this type of marine gymnastic to much). The issue with the 440 is the Yanma saildrives, my friend updated the SD50 to SD60. Many forums on that issue.
On the 400 everything is so much closer and you sit on the helm, see everything and everybody easily. The boom is easy to handle the flat roof is easy to put on panels etc. The 440 carries more fuel, more water, more space for washing machine, desalinator .. so that is a big plus in the Pacific where you are days from anywhere, in the Caribbean / Med not so much. Also the 440 has bigger volumes so its easier, not easy to get to things for maintenance, fixing etc. The 400 is nice compact and more then enough room for 2 to be comfortable.
My advice, charter both see how you go, and then buy the one that is best maintained, lowest hours on engines, equipment in good conditions. You know what I mean.
Mick
Mick Relic hey Mick,, really good to read your input as a soon to be old farts retiring (semi) to cruise and explore first the Mediterranean then Madagascar then Asia.... With my new and quiet young wife. Some advice if I may ask, you or anyone else reading, if budget is not an issue, for something my wife and I can sail alone on shorter trips and 1/2 crew for what crossings plus guests as say a couple plus two teens, would you choose, motor yacht (Nordhavn 78 or bering 70 /or cat? If a cat, which would you go for, priority = safety & comfort then reliability and space. Performance being lesser importance than safety and comfort or ease of sailing. I can get a well maintained and fitted Nordhavn 78 (2012) or new Bering 70 (2016 & less cost than the Nordhavn) or a new leopard 48 (half the price of the MY's purchase price) major difference of course between MY and sailing yacht is the annual running /port/ maintenance costs and the the draft, but, A Nordhavn 78 can carry large suplies volume and a bigger tender for exploring Islands or shallow areas. I'm guessing to run cat is around (70/30 - 70% anchored /30%) sailing $300,000 per year and for a MY $500,000 up to $1m per anum? I've been looking now 2 years and am rather stumped. Actually delayed buying due to the confusion. You seem to be the only one actually laying it out in real terms and some sales pitch. (I hate salesmen!)
Hi Mathew,
It's very fortunate.. as I am home for a couple of weeks and can answer these emails. You can speak at length on MY vr SY etc so I will just do a mental dump and hope it triggers a though process.
It's good that you delayed as no point in purchasing something that is wrong. Here are some of the ways I made my decision.
I reflected / visualised the way I sailed, where and how I will sail in the future. (yes sounds 60 hippy stuff but it works). I put my self inside a pacific Atoll. You have to get inside it so passage can be narrow, twisty and depth unknown. But you want to be inside for all the diving, kite surfing, snorkelling and get away from it all experience. Then you get into atoll find a perfect anchorage you drop the anchor and nothing else seems to matter. You settle in by dropping the dinghy in, start the dive compressor, some on your yacht have walked of the back and are swimming, spear fishing for lunch etc..
Everything is postcard perfect, however you dropped your anchor at low tied and in 4 hours high tide comes in and some waves are coming over the reef. They are only one or two feet, but more then enough to make a mono-hull get into its roll motion. So for 4 or so hours you have to be on a yacht that rolls, maybe even causing you to move. But a large cat just goes up and down slowly and no roll, with all the stuff you are doing you hardly notice it. Or you could be 50-100 meters closer to the sand where the waves are even smaller.
What type of yacht will make it easier safer to get in and stay there.
Other is a warm night slight breeze and hot inside but you do not want to start the AC as you want no noise. Just put a large towel and pillow on the trampoline and sleep there as you watch the stars. Will you be entertaining friends or other cruisers in anchorages.. list goes on
Think how where etc you will be using your yacht but also take into account the practicality of the day to day stuff. In sailing people say getting there and being there are the two things. Bloody obvious. So how do I get there and what qualities of a yacht will make being there more rewarding.
Now getting back to yacht choices.
I have no 1st hand experience of Nordhavn / Bearing other then seeing them in port or boat shows. However we have been on motor yachts of the size you mentioned and some 15-20 years ago I use to belong to a very active divers club, where we charted motor yachts of the size you mention for weeks and once we chartered a 30 meter catamaran though Mike Balls expeditions and headed into the Great Barrier reef. So my experience is based on a passenger and guest rather then owner. But being a mechanical type I spoke at length with skippers owners and like always you get roped into fixing things etc. A MY yacht of 70-80 feet. Wow big boat and a lot of work and costs. Also something that size will need at least one knowledgeable full time crew member or a workaholic owner. Do you want to be a workaholic owner.
1st thing I would like to add... speed is safety... a yacht that can average 200 plus knots a day with modern weather, download forecasting you can avoid all the bad weather or run away from it. You can get very accurate 48 hour weather forecasts and with a fast yacht you could get 500 ktns away from where you are and into a safer zone that buys you more time to plan the next step.
2nd A large sailing vessel can motor very well a large motor yacht can not sail.
3rd The size of yachts you are talking about, their price, their running cost you will most likely need at least one full time professional crew of at least one. Just the maintenance alone.
4th. For the budget you are talking about you could be going for Fountaine Pajot Victoria 67, or Ipenama 58 or equivalent Lagoons 56/62. Now we are talking about safety, speed, comfort space etc. All these catamarans would probably be less then a Nordhavn 78 and less to run with far more space. Look them up here and do video walk through.
If you want to do the owner skipper sailor with small family and friends as crew with the space for them all, the comfort etc. With the budget you are talking about, have a look at the Nautitech 541 (not 542) owners version or any layout. A Saba 50 could also do and would be cheaper. My favourite the Outremer 5x might be a step too far for you.
One thing I would like to tell you, with forward cockpit catamarans, the size of the trampoline, i.e the further back you are the safer it will be and more comfortable and less slamming.
I hope this helps..
Mick
P.S. be good to sales people and the good ones will be good to you .. the bad ones.. oh well part of life...
Mick Relic what's a mates 440?
1 hull or 2, either way it's still better than 0 hulls which is where we're at now.
Better to have 0 hulls than buy a boat that does not fit your requirements. Rather than compare the boats look at how and where you want to sail and what is the depth of the water in your safe harbours? A Multihull has more options due to their smaller draught but you do have to be a more aware of weather squalls etc, reefing early (reducing sail) is the best option on a cat. A cat is more of a home with a lounge and deck to share and cabins below and two heads is a bonus when one breaks. Twice the maintenance and hard on sails. There is no perfect answer GOOD LUCK.
Hahahaha... that should have been in the video :)
Steve Trouble l
Just buy a 13 foot Boston Whaler.
Good video for the first time look at the differences. As always it will depend on what you want and how you will use the boat. Catamarans can be further broken down into two groups: stub keels or dagger boards. This pretty much defines what the cat was intended for. Dagger board boats are usually lighter, have more bridge deck clearance, 2-3kts faster than stubs in any conditions, and they point higher. In some cases much higher. They will also be affected more quickly to overloading, the dagger boards are a liability with submerged objects and the running gear is less protected. All that said the dagger boat will be faster, slam less, less likely to wallow or pitchpole (driven conservatively), and generally give a better ride. Compare a Schionning with a Lagoon.....
I couldn't help but notice your wife's face when you were talking about "Romantic idea of Sailing into the sunset" at the end of the video
Great comparison analysis !!! I have been sailing BOTH since I was 10 years old ( I am now 55)and have a love for BOTH for their different attributes !!! I currently own a Bruce Farr 58 foot custom cruising monohull which @ 29,000 lbs. falls into what is commonly referred to in the sailing circles as a ULDB or ultra light displacement boat . These are also known as "Sleds" for their surfing characteristics (20+ knots off the wind and low teens upwind !) The problem that I don't care for with catamarans in open ocean sailing is that they resemble a flat surface when sitting atop of large ocean swells (kinda like a sheet of plywood)and this tends to make for a very uncomfortable ride as well as an exaggerated pitching motion which can be very dangerous !!! And as you touched upon,they do have a higher risk for pitch poling or what we used to call cart wheeling when surfing down the fronts of very large ocean swells !!! The thing that I like about a ULDB monohull is that the curvature of the hull between the bow and the stern tends to fit the shape of the wave in large swells !!!(Getting into the groove) It is for that reason catamarans are typically the preferred choice in smaller seas such as the Caribbean and Mediterranean where the larger swells are less likely to build as opposed to the larger oceans where swells have many thousands of miles to build !!! So BOTH are Grrr8888 choices,one just needs to consider what type and where they intend to be doing the majority of their cruising ! And you were also spot on with the cost analogy !!! Catamarans are MUCH more expensive aLLL the way around........Initial purchase,moorage,and mechanical upkeep !!! The MOST important thing is that you are completely happy and satisfied with your investment because if your are not happy with it you won't take as much of a concerted interest in taking care of it and THAT is what keeps it safe !!! I guess an exaggerated way to compare which would be the more comfortable ride would be to watch some of the race videos such as the Vendee Globe and Volvo ocean race for monohulls and The Jules Verne or Ostar videos for multi hulls and then ask yourself which looks like the more comfortable or safer ride ??? Either way,happy sailing !!!
Todd
S/V Imagine
Thanks for the comment Todd. It's good to hear from individuals with lots of experience. We spent a week on a 40ft cat recently and got to experience first hand a little bit of the discomfort of the "hobby horsing" from the cat. This was more do to that fact that we were in the Gulf and had steepish swells/waves at just 2-3 seconds apart. It was actually a little bit like riding a horse. We were beating into it which made it worse. But I could see how a comparable priced monohull would've been a lot heavier and a lot longer which would probably have smoothed things out a lot. The next day though the wind shifted and the waves were more rolly and on our beam and then it got much more comfortable. And here the multihull probably wins out. It's all trade offs. and like you said the people have more of an affect of the safety of the boat than anything.
You were mentioning comfort in the open ocean and finding the groove. Do you think the biggest consideration there LWL? Or is weight equally important for that? Just curious. -Ryan
You got most of them!
You missed catamarans generally having a shallower draft , more space for entertainment ( the cat is always the party boat in an anchorage) and from a safety consideration the redundancy of two engines/rudders/ props etc makes up for the extra maintenance!
But we are a little bias :) Valhalla is a 43ft Voyage Cat
- Capacity for PV Solar Panels on a cat are much higher. On a smaller monohull it's much harder to find space for panels so the necessity to use your engine or a generator for domestic power supply will be more often and that will lead to the question " Fuel capacity "
- Access to the water. In most cases getting into the water and back onto the boat the cat will win again.
- Draft. A cat opens a lot more hidden anchorages than most mono's can access.
- Constant motion. Most cats, especialy the smaller ones, tend to accelerate and decelerate leading to a jerky motion. Going from 8 to 11 knots back and forth at short intervals over a prolonged time period is very exhausting. Only very big cats are not prone to this.
-Rolling anchorages. Another one goes to the cat. When the anchorage gets a swell, especialy when it's perpendicular to the wind a mono will become very uncomfortable.
The combination of a protected helm and ample deck space is almost a cat only realm. Bluewater cruisers with a center cockpit like Amel's Oysters, Hallberg Rassys etc have very a well protected Helm and cockpit but at the cost of cockpit space. Monos with large cockpits usually have the helm right at the aft in a very exposed position.
There is so much more one could write but in my opinion at the end of the day the real question is "what can you afford?"
Awesome thanks. All good points. Actually reminded me of a pro mono point, the high freeboard of a cat can make boarding from the dock to the side of a cat almost impossible with out stairs. Though some cats have steps grooved into the side to help with this. But yes, at the end of the day it all boils down to cost.
COST ... no matter the arguments for or against any boat configuration, the bottom line always seems to be "how much boat can you afford" ... unless you are a Trust Fund Baby :) I think you did a great job with your Compare and Contrast video, and that with the additional point raised here in the COmment Section, you've put together a valuable video on Cats versus Mono's. GOOD JOB !!
Great point/tip, thanks for the comments!
Find out what kind of boat you can afford and make sure you have double or triple the monetary resources ... if you want to use it a lot. Then one can sail to exotic locations and fix things on said boat!
The redundancy and space and stability of a cat, seem to be the winning edge for me - so far... yes there is a cost, but having an extra engine - or water tank, while at sea, seems like a good deal to me.
Sorry I can't help myself - Mono vs Cat liveaboard cruising. I've always dreamed of seeing the world on a sail boat since I was about 18; like a lovely clipper ketch and on to the modern mono's as of up to 10 years ago . I'm now 64 and a convert to catamarans as use for this purpose (I now have one). As viewers watch these vids to make decisions on their choice of cruising craft I would like to point out a couple of very important facts with a cat not covered in your vid:
1. A lot of cats (as with mine) are designed not to sink when holed (both hulls) - cored with all types of buoyant materials from the waterline up. They also have shallow drafts for getting into anchorages inaccessible to most mopnos.
2. Sailing and anchored - Cats don't heel, don't roll they just "rock"; this is a godsend to living aboard. As I've watched many monos pull up anchor (after arriving "wasted" from the same sailed passage) because of what they describe as an uncomfortable anchorage (the same anchorage that rocks me to sleep).
3. Living aboard a cat is like living in an apartment on the water. Your view is at eye level through your "windows" and out onto your "verandah" when seated. Your not living in a cave like environment looking "up to" your "cockpit".
Just a couple of facts for viewers to consider with their decision on an important purchase.
Thanks again! We welcome hearing people's real world experience. We're in full agreement with the not waning to live in a dark "cave". Since it'll be our home, we want it to be apartment like. But also functional. Cat's meet both of those criteria for us.
Cats all the way... one and only one issue... beam measurements presents issues sometimes everywhere and always when in a marina. As they pointed out, unless your in a marina in the middle of nowhere where sailors don’t go or it’s way off-season, ... good luck finding a spot near civilization. More likely your spot would be at the end of a very long harbor/marina/dock... best to moor outside and bring in the dinghy... but that sucks when everyone else is docked at “restaurant row” and you have to motor in, look for a spot to tie up dinghy... AND walk to “restaurant row”..... nice to be able to dock where all you have to do is hop off and your “there’, wherever there is...
One more thing... someday, we would like to do the canal thing in France all the way to Scandinavia via the Netherlands on the mast up route... there might be issues using a cat on this trip.... still researching....
Thx.! VERY informative. Many great points.
I like mono hulls compared to cats. A friend of mine had a cat and he always said later it was double everything like trouble, cost, moorage fees. It was like a really nice condo on the inside though. I just dont like them. Ill be saving up for years for a mono hulled blue water cruising boat.
Yeah the double maintenance and larger moorage fees can't be ignored. Especially if you're on a budget.
I was looking at going for a cat, then got up close and personal with an Oyster at the Annapolis boat show. Damn those boats are beautiful. There is something to be said for aesthetics.
I like Oyster to, but expensive. Halberg Rassy expensive and are nice too.
Saw one of those too. Nice! Can't afford either one.
Another thing with Cats is due to their youth, newer cats have much better interior layouts than older ones. With monohulls pretty much every configuration has already been done and you can find an old one with the layout you want. "Old" cats, on the other hand, can have some pretty awful layouts compared to what has been done in the last 5 years.
Agreed. In our opinion some of the old Fountaine Pajot designs were really really bad. Lagoon though. They've had it figured out for a while.
very interesting video thanks for sharing
You have Redundancy on a Cat not found on a Mono. Additionally you can beach a catamaran in an emergency. With Beach wheels you and a winch you can even completely pull it out of the water for a remote location repair.
Never heard of these beach wheels before but just looked them up. Neat idea!
Getting it out of the water is pretty easy if you have a sandy beach, getting it back in the water might be tough cause they are heavy boats! I wonder if the windlass could pull the boat on beechwheels back into the water?
Peter d'Entremont So people say. Insurance companies say otherwise. The one i crewed on cracked open. check the manufacturers dry load information. Some will only take 450kg of payload when on sand.
if you ve fucked up that bad that you need to beach any type of sea vessel,you should probabky call help.I dont see the advantage here, i mean,you can beach a monohull too with low tide.I do however get that cats have an advantage if you wan to go to say the bahamas where the water is shallow
Thanks! Well covered for a rookie like me!
There's coastal cruising and then there's ocean cruising. A cat would be perfect for the first, a mono for the second. Make sure of your decision for your specific plans. Love yall. -A
Alan Jackson best explanation for both !!
how good is the performance on mono-hull and a catamaran in heavy and rough seas with huge waves
Catamaran hands down for me, just have to win the lottery lol
Really good summary of some of the differences between catamaran and monohull, particularly sailing safely. You've done good research so far. What you describe as a barrel roll in some cases could be caused by broaching. Broaching is where the wind causes the boat to turn so much that it can capsize, i.e., extreme weather helm due to too much sail; usually spinnaker. Broaching is generally caused by being overpowered, as you mentioned separately.
Audio's a bit distorted. Turn down the microphone gain. Lapel microphones would work best.
(Cruising) catamarans do heel, but so much less than a monohull that one doesn't think of them as heeling.
Catamarans have a bad reputation for capsizing and turning turtle because they're easier to see upside down in the water. It's much harder to see a monohull upside down because they're more likely to sink in a capsize and therefore not be visible. In other words, it's a perceptual bias that cats are unsafe because they remain visible when turtled, whereas monohulls are more likely to sink and not be visible. There may be some measurements in open class races in big storms. Certainly insurance companies would have data on sinkings, though even that could be biased where the monhull folks die and thus never file an insurance claim whereas the cat folks survive to file a claim.
Thanks for the feedback. Yeah we're working around to getting a shotgun mic and some lapel mics. I'm hoping for some black friday or cyber monday sales. It'd be interesting to see those stats but I bet there must be some sort of bias like you say. Especially with a confirmation bias around catamarans flipping. People look for the photos of it online, find it, and it "confirms" their previously held beliefs that cats were untrustworthy. We all do stuff like that though, which is why some "official" numbers would be so illuminating.
You will age much slower on a Cat.
Max Supermax lol
I don't get it
You convinced me! Cats are nothing more than a doubled sided monohull looking for trouble.
An overweight cat is a dog???? Is that a Mayberry thing?
lol. There are indeed many "Mayberry things". So would a trimaran triple trouble? lol
She seemed so distracted and uninterested, the server echoing of your vocals was really distracting from any technical information provided. Kinda ruined this video.
Writen from Carla Schenk.( translatet by app)
Half a hundred arguments for the catamaran
The catamaran offers more security
1) A cat can not sink.
2) Even if the ship has to be left, there is enough time to take necessary utensils that can not be accommodated in the liferaft for reasons of space. monos can sink within a few minutes.
3) A cat sails upright, the ship movements are more comfortable. This reduces the risk of injury and the possibility to fall overboard.
4) At sea, working in the mast is safer.
5) Similarly, work on the foredeck is less risky and more comfortable.
6) The service in the pantry is less tiring and less dangerous on a cat. The Smut does not need to fight against slipping dishes and overflowing boiling soup.
7) Our cat has two engines, which brings double safety.
8) A cat has two oars, if necessary can also be controlled with one.
9) Due to the stable situation, the mental burden for the sailor is lower, on a cat there is less seasickness.
10) When stranded on level sand or mud, the cat will stay upright and will have little problems with rising water.
11) The enormous width of the mast makes it easier to lock.
12) Spi or Genakker are driven without a tree. The sails are easier and safer to set, rifle and retrieve.
13) A cat is faster, which shortens the journey time.
The catamaran is a space wonder
14) Our cat has four self-contained cabins, providing plenty of privacy, especially if relatives, friends or children are on board. (A cabin may be set up as an office or workshop.)
15) For larger Kats there are in the foredeck of the hulls additionally each a room with shelves for spare parts, tools and tools.
16) The large cockpit (2.70 m by 4 m in our case), which I refer to as an "outdoor salon", is an additional habitat, especially in the Mediterranean and in the tropics, where life mainly takes place outdoors.
17) Our cat offers enough headroom in the cabins, in the salon and under the bimini.
18) There is enough space on the Bimini, the deckhouse and the foreship for solar cells. A generator is not necessary)
19) The dinghy can be driven on deck.
20) There is enough space on deck for additional diesel and water in canisters.
21) To realize the size of salon at this ship length with no mono.
22) There is enough space to take paying guests on board.
23) A cat is child friendly. the large cockpit is a safe playground for children.
24) An appropriate foredeck invites you to sunbathe and nap.
25) On a Kat is plenty of storage space.
Comfort as in the luxury hotel
26) Due to the lower draft, it is possible to anchor closer to the shore so that you can row the few meters to land and save the outboard.
27) An anchorage in shallower water in bays is often better protected against wind and swells.
28) At anchorages avoided by Monos because of the swell, catfish are often still relatively calm.
29) Cleaning and lashing of objects is not necessary before departure.
30) Plastic dishes can be dispensed with. Also at sea is eaten by the porcelain.
31) No problem arises when storing dishes and bottles. On the way there is no rattling and no shards.
32) Bottles and dishes stay on the table even in harsher weather, you can eat at sea as well as in the noble restaurant.
33) In light winds, a cat drives against the engine as if on rails, a support sail can be dispensed with, no rolling, no pushing in, no sail beating.
34) The cat rolls relatively little on the downwind course. Even before the wind, there are hardly any sailing hits and impressions. due to the width, the headsail can be better fixed.
35) A cardan stove or table is superfluous on a cat.
36) A cat has no bunks but beds. Sleep at sea is more relaxing, leeches are not necessary, there is no risk of falling out of the berth.
37) If only one engine is used on the way, you can sleep soundly in the other bow without noise pollution.
38) Under the Bimini wet clothes or clothing can be hung to dry, the wetness remains outside the cabin.
39) The cockpit of the cat is relatively high and is not covered by other ships during the stay in Marinas, so it is airy and often offers a nice view.
40) When the heat is high, the space between the hulls is suitable for swimming in the shade.
41) Our cat turns on the plate by simply maneuvering with two machines. A bow thruster is superfluous.
42) For a converted room, a cat is much cheaper to buy than a mono.
43) At the rear there is enough space to mount brackets for stern anchor and outboard motor.
44) Drying is less complicated than mono and above all safer.
45) Kats have a comfortable entrance instead of a narrow decline.
46) The salon looks bright and friendly through large windows.
47) Drains go directly into the water, the risk of clogging is low.
48) TV, video and microwave do not need to be installed. They stay in place even in tougher weather.
49) Through the exit hatch can be fished directly from the salon.
50) If mud and dirt are caught while anchoring, the anchor cleans itself if you drag it between the hulls for a short time through the water. The mono would hit the anchor against the bow.
2 hulls are always better then none ha ha ha
Cats win hands-down in my opinion due to one single fact: a shallow draft. You can maneuver a cat far more easily in tricky areas; such as the Caribbean for instance. Yes; in terms of speed the mono wins on longer passages; but remember; this is not a race, this is enjoying sailing. So what if I arrive a few days later. Am I in a rush to be anywhere? Maybe I should have taken a plane.
Cat all the way .No Argument about it very simple
your audio is so bad. You clip the mic constantly
Cats. Hands down. Period. No... seriously. Period!
A good clear discussion of cat vs mono. Here are links to over 25 articles on choosing a boat. www.adventuresonboats.com/buying-a-boat.html
-johnny
PS - I am a cat person
Sailed both types, and I feel safer on a mono in force 10 than on a cat in force 7. I can just about handle any force of wind, any sea state, on any point of sail with a monohull, but I cannot say that much for a cat.Consequences of a round up, or knock down, or broach on a monohull are a lot less severe than on a cat.Modern monohulls, although not as wide as cats, can have 5 m beam and even more for a 15m boat (50 ft) , making them very spacy inside. Monohulls also come with very efficient variable draft keels of all types. Draft on some 50 footers can be varied from 3m to 1m.Modern cruising boats, can sail at double digit speeds in total safety, and surf at 16 or 18 knots in total comfort.marina fees for cats are horrendous compared to monohulls.Most 50ft monohulls are wide enough nowadays to have davits on their stern to carry the dinghy just like on a cat.But in the end, it is what you want to do, how you want to do it and where you want to sail that will determine selecting a cat or a mono.
One thing came into mind as pro for cats: privacy.
In a typical cruising cat the cabins are at the ends of the hulls, which means there's no other cabin right behind the wall.
Yeah good point. forgot about that!
Love the informative video, For an Old Fart sailing I feel the Catamaran is the way to go! As we age we don't heal well and all that bouncing around in a Mono Hull we might not do to well at keeping out balance underway! But for you younger Sailors you can go either way! I feel I could go either direction but do not feel the wife would enjoy a Mono Hull, Thanks For Sharing looking forward to future video's.
Cats are for the people that sail to get to the next sundowner., and do everything possible to avoid weather.
Monohulls are for The people who see anchorage as a nuisance, and would rather thrash through a storm than sit in port.
You Will not see many cats out there in heavy seas, by choice.
There is a very good reason that cats were developed in the Pacific, by a people that are renown for chilling out, and monohulls were developed by people who built cargo and military ships that had to be out there no matter what, in the atlantic, in winter.
Motion at sea is a preference, not an absolute. The motion of a cat in seas bigger than a meter is disturbing to some. Also, if you try going windward in a chop, cats relentlessly slap their bridge decks. Monohulls roll relentlessly on a downwind run in light airs, with swell.
Cats cost much more per pound than monohulls, and are much lighter in construction, Cats carry less load. Cats have more space. Etc.
I don't understand why there is an argument. They are just different.
If you have a healthy bank account, and want to sail in the tropics, for the main purpose of moving from one diving spot or beach to another, then get a cat. If you have less money, or want to sail through cold water, weather, or to voyage far, then get a monohull.
Very well done guys, THANKS! Most important Cat advantage I know of is their being able to sail in very shallow water for island hopping etc. BUT for me, the dangers of being caught in bad weather, high seas (which is 110% going to happen) is enough for me to never get sucked into the "room enough to make the gals happy) cat. Safety first because #1 I want to bring everyone back alive, myself included.
maybe i'm a relick at my age and i started sailing Cat's just few years ago but i still feel more sailing pleasure doing so on a Mono then in cat cat's are great taking the grandchildrens for a weekend sailing but even they prefer sailing on my old 45.5 mono
Hi Guys,I went through the same dilemma as you, a few years ago,
and found my ideal boat in 48ft alloy cat. I had a couple of other criteria,
which may interest you.Do some research on delamination in foam and balsa cored cat
hulls, there is a plethora of storied out there of cats, leaking water after
the owners drilled a hole into the hull, only to discover the balsa or foam was
waterlogged. Once delamination starts between the core substrate and the fiberglass,
it is very difficult to stop. It is not a problem with solid fiberglass mono
hulls.There is also a lot of big stuff floating out there. I
got a big fright when I saw a whole tree with a 4ft girth floating off PNG, so
one of my selection criteria was daggerboards, pop up rudders and propeller shafts
not sail-drives. Also the number of whales going up the Australian east coast
in increasing by 10% per annum. An adult humpback is as long as my boat and
3-4times as heavy, and they sleep on the surface at night. The number of boats
hitting whales is increasing. My boat cruises at 10kts plus, so I make sure the
daggerboard are up at night.
My boat has an inner forestay, to stiffen up the mast,
when using the second and third reef in the main. She came with a stay-sail
that hanks onto it. With the third reef and the stay-sail, the boat is comfortable
up to 30kts of wind, after which the main is dropped. A cat is a lot dryer and
easier to do deck work on than a mono.
Enjoy the journey, it took me a few years of research to
find my ideal boat.Cheers Franciswww.sailinglogic.net
Just checked out your site and boat! Good stuff! Thanks for sharing. Its good to hear some real world experiences. Also I had no idea whales were increasing so quickly there!
This is such a loaded conversation. I have been a Catamaran and mono hull sailor for over 25 years and i will say they each have there pros and cons. but for cruising you cant beat a cat. hands down. and as for up wind performance its a bit of a myth. we just sail at the same speed as a comparable mono hull up wind. yes we lose the off the wind performance we normally enjoy but cats dont suck up wind. in fact there great because my Beer stays on the table and does not fall off. Jessica that is why there was no cup holder on that Cat you seen.
here is a great PDF on Cats and how to sail them for anyone interested. Stay positive and sail fast.fotocontato.com.br/uploads/triplog/Catamarans%20The%20Complete%20Guide%20for%20Cruising%20Sailors%202008%20Tarjan%200071596224.pdf
Most cruisers are on a budget so hands down the mono hull wins.
Fair enough point. Ultimately money is the biggest decider.
I wish the same explanation also exists for fishing types like a 7-9 meter hull Monohaul and Catamaran with a 2.5 to 3 meter beam . If possible, can you guys make a video about it? Especially when it comes to waves and rough conditions.
Speak to the comparison if high latitude sailing can be done comfortably. Can a Catamaran sail 60N 30W
Someone may misunderstand at 6:50. "...mono will sit rightside up at the BOTTOM of the ocean" Not sure where that comes from. I have seen many monos purposely flipped, and they self righted. My mono is difficult to capsize and when I manage to put it on it's side it springs right up. Ocean going boats don't just sink from a knock down. Not sure why this is going around the internet.
This comparison of traits is not limited to 'being flipped' it's simply comparing worst case scenarios. A cat CAN flip, but will almost always float wether flipped or holed or whatever. A mono CAN sink. Not from being flipped per se, but from taking on enough water for whatever reason. I guess the idea is they both have a pretty bad downside that the other doesn't have. As such, it's not an argument that either boat gets to 'win.' One is not inherently safer than the other. Just different. Truth is Cat's don't flip often and mono's don't often sink on passage. I wouldn't be choosing a boat based on these factors personally.
Having sailed a cat Coccus keeling to Perth WA 1700nm into a SE trades.Sailing into 30kns ,strong current and 2+metre waves.
The best we could sail was 120 degress to the wind and current. After 5 days we had sailed to approx 100nm from Christmas Island. Which is ENE of Coccus keeling, We could feel the curent as each wave would rotate the yacht and move us NW
After 12 days we crossed our Run line and we had made less than 500 nm in distance.
Each hull slamed off every wave and you could not leave anything on the table as it would eventually fall off.
Cats will sink just like a monohull.and they do capsize and do dont upright them selves
I think it just depends on what you are looking for in a yacht. I don't see where you are at anymore disadvantage on maintenance in a cat than you are a mono. With modern diesels if you keep up on your preventive maintenance they should last you quite awhile and be very reliable. In a mono as well as a cat, a prudent sailor will always keep an eye on weather and reef early. You really don't want to be on the foredeck changing sails in a good blow. I think docking in a cat may be easier for a novice to learn, but my HR 53' with bow and stern thruster will lie along side just as well as a cat.
If you sail long enough you are eventually going sail in less than ideal conditions. When the wind is at 40Kn and the seas are 15-20 and cresting, I will take a mono.
I think you are doing the right way. Get lots of experience in local waters before heading offshore. There is an old saying ''The sea is a harsh mistress'' She won't tolerate to many mistakes.
Ive had cats and mono hulls cats win at anchor but monos win on long distance cruising and safety
I agree with earlier posts that it matters where you will be sailing. BVI's vs Tampa Bay for example. My opinion: People that want to conquer the wind and truly love 'sailing' choose monohulls. Cats are for the party animals and credit card captains that enjoy taking groups out. I've watched a few of your videos and I can't tell yet if you learned to sail because of the challenge and love of the sport, or you're looking to spend time in tropical paradise and look good doing it with minimal effort. Can't wait to see what you decide!
+Bill Crawford I think for us we're a bit of a mixture. We're not party animals, but we're also not die hard born again sailing enthusiasts. Nothing again people who are either though as I can see the appeal either way. We do like tropical beaches, but we also like wild beaches and mountains and deserts and foreign lands. For us, at heart, we're travelers and explorers. We've been travelers and explorers for a while now, but only fairly recently did we figure out that we could actually using sailing as the means by which we travel. Maybe it seems obvious like "of course you can travel the world in a sailboat" but for us, growing up we weren't exposed to it so it always seemed unattainable. We traveled enough to know that living out of a large backpack for extended periods of time is an unsustainable lifestyle. Staying in hotels and AirBnbs is like renting an apartment, you're just paying for someone elses space, you never own any thing or build equity. For us our boat will be our home and workhorse. The whole point is to create a sustainable lifestyle as opposed to some short term jaunt around the world. To that end, our priorities are capability and comfort. If we didn't care about long distance capability we'd just get a trawler. Hope that makes sense! Thanks for the comment.
What about solar powered catamaran yachts? ;)
Solar panels have gotten so cheap it should be cheaper now than diesel powered boats if you don't get too much battery storage.
Shallow water cats rule...monohulls draft too much water for say a great experience in the bahamas..large monohulls even have difficulties in some marinas needing to watch the tides like a hawk just to be able to float. You didn't mention monohulls that use alternate keel systems.
Cat. Don't like life on the lean...
In a big storm who wins? That is my concern lol
She is pissed off :)
One of most honest comparison I have seen so far. The funny bit is that just based on body language you clearly can see who the biggest catamaran fan is ;-)) Nothing new under sun here!
I think one of them is pretty expensive than the other one.
The one thing I think was missing is comparing comfort/ease in handling for a couple, as well as safety in that regard. Thank you for sharing this video I found it very informative.
Oh interesting point. And there might be a larger topic there in general for another video with regard to what to look for in a boat to be sailed by a couple. Thanks for the idea! ;)
Solo sailing should be a topic
I'm curious what you think about trimarans.....
Never sailed on one, but they seem fast and look like spaceships. that's about the extent of my knowledge. We'll have to chat with some folks who know more about them. Maybe do an interview. People say that trimarans are the best of both worlds but do cost a lot.
Just some thoughts about things you didn't mention.
Draft. Generally, catamarans will be shallower draft.
Rolly. Catamarans are less rolly at anchor.
Fun. Monohulls are more "fun" and "glorious" to sail. The "feel" of sailing a catamaran is "dumbed down." So, it is less fun, but also the impact in heavy weather is dumbed down making long passages significantly more comfortable.
Motion. Catamarans have an awkward motion that makes some people seasick that would not otherwise get seasick. Monohulls have a more pronounced motion, but it isn't awkward like a cat.
Redundancy. 2 engines make for serious redundancy. Our cat can pretty much go anywhere on 1 engine. Backing on 1 engine is the problem.
Hull slap. Catamarans have hull slap which seems super wrong when it happens. Just something that catamaran people have to get used to.
My verdict is this. Go sailing on a monohull for the afternoon. Go sailing on a catamaran for a trip.
Your motor breaks down on a mono hull , your getting an expensive tow bill, cats have two. cats get into shallower water. Many myths about cats. People, when they can afford it switch to a cat. rarely see people go from a cat to a mono. When on passage, in a mono you go below to the dungeon, on a cat you go inside, sit at a table that's not tipped up on it's side, look out and enjoy the view. Living in a mono is like living in a basement apartment.
Don't see where people get info on overloading a cat. Can load a cat like a mono (actually cats have much more storage space), loose about 10 to 15% of speed (and get some bridge deck slap) but no big deal, it isn't about speed it's about comfort.
To each his own but me grandfadder said to me when I was small, any fool can be uncomfortable but the really foolish trick themselves into believing they are comfortable when they are not.
But with a cat you have to be aware of whats going on when at anchor. By the time the boat starts rolling the mono's have their storm anchors out
Mazda rx7 From cat to mono? After my last storm, you now know someone who went to a safe mono. Will never blue water in a cat again. rivers and coastal...no problem.
Terry Peake
Safe mono, hehehe. Had a PDQ36 for 10 years, never any issues in big seas.
Mazda rx7 just saw your profile pic. I am a fellow rescue chopper crew. Australia and PNG. Hence my comments on cats and monos with damn keel bolts.
40 foot cat 50-55 mono is your comparison for internal volume.
Cruising cats do not have higher speeds based all ocean passages times recorded by the ARC/Pacific puddle jump etc.
There is a reason for not having Davits.
Cats are built for the charter market and are used in calm waters BVI bahamas etc. and a 40-45 foot cats charter can be split by 8 people thus the cost per person is less than a mono.
What does a cruising couple of two do with the extra staterooms?
Monos are easily sailed solo or by two people.You will feel any increase of wind or sea state in a mono by its motion and or increased heel which is a depower function as you stated cats dont do this.
Cats make the best floating hotels and this is what they where designed for. If your goal is motoring down the Thorny path in the Carribean or BVI bar hopping or Florida gunkholing or Marina living. Cat wins on several fronts. Livability for landlubbers Draft ability to handle guests.Sunbathing and drunken trampoline parties. Adventure sailing not so much.Can it be done? sure to a limit but more crew will be needed. A couple comments on your comments.Cat or mono...no one stays in a rolly anchorage long...not really an issue.And wine drinking underway is not a issue either.Instead of expounding on a subject where you have limited experience suggest you buy the boat that suits your needs and enjoy it
If you spend a lot of time at anchor rolling is a real pain with monos... Never lived on a cat so cant say.
It all comes down to whether you prefer motorcycles or cars.
Motorcycles have less room, don't go as fast generally, are more prone to the elements. But they're more fun. Leaning them over is a blast.
Cars are more stable, faster, have more space but you're more disconnected to your surroundings.
Monohulls are more connected to the sea.
Cats are just easier to live with.
It depends how you get your fun.
Good vid thanks. LOL on a Polynesian romanticism of Cat. I could just see it, Polynesians sailing to the sun, finding the Polynesian island, and continued to the Americas and brought back potatoes back to Polynesia. And they did! hahahaha. Sorry Columbus fan, it appears he was not the first to discover the Americas. Great video again guys thanks .
It gets even more complicated
Monohull vs Catamaran vs Trimaran vs Quadraman
Hello!!! , we are designing a 48ft catamaran, and we would like to invite you to participate in its design that you would win a catamaran at a cost below 100k for its interior customization
Super informative thanks. We faced the same debate and ended up buying a monohull last week for our own adventure. For us it boiled down to budget. Subscribed.
I want a cat but overall the mono is an easier proposition. Especially when its haul out time. The biggest mono that will take an outboard motor would be the ticket. Screwing around with an inboard engine is a big hassle.
one hull is bestBECAUSE IT RIGHTS ITSELF IN A STORM cats stay upside down for ever
A mono-hull rights itself?
@@doolittlegeorge weighted keel rights monohulls, they are designed to right themselves. Cats get stuck upside down
@@TheJHCDigital I think the US Coast Guard claims to have such a thing but my thought on "Cat Problems" is how to stop them once they get moving not "they can't self-right." Sounds good tho..
Ever heard of a mono upright itself....?
Thats so cheep....
You guys missed a critical comparison: which one increases a skipper's chances of having women crew and reduces the probability of his sailing solo forever and becoming a lonely old salt? Paw's down winner = CATs forever.
Yeah, just watching sailing videos, I reached the same conclusion.
BINGO!! That does it for me, hands down!
How about the added safety of a cat. Two engines...if you lose one you can still get to a "home" and you can sail in much skinnier water.
Great summary. I love sailing a big mono upwind, loads of fun....after 3-4 hours I've had enough. I like cats. But as we know it's more about the adventure than the boat.
It's all about money. Cats are better if you can afford a good one and mono hulls are better if you can't.
Like you mentioned about Polynesian catamaran ancient style - they have been around and in many forms.
The other aspect is the Trimaran - they have been great racing boats and another option to consider. Some of these in cruiser layout can make 12 knots all day long and hot 16 +
so wow that can make a passage cut by over 50% . These are also likely older and cheaper than a Cat boat.
The Prout is probably one the better ones for a value boat - they have been around a while ttoo.
* If the catamaran does capsize and crew are inside - some do have an escape hatch, bu if your;s does not - have a battery powerd sawzall ready, cut a nice clean hole and save that piece, then climb out ...then after the fact, tape it back together with water proof marine tape !
This is a very rare event though.
In the amount of maintenance - well a Mono hull s much larger and deeper, plus harder to beach for simple cleaning. Smaller sq feet in the water and much smaller area - but x2 , so not sure if what you say is correct as to more maint. on a Cat .
I think they are much more friendly for living aboard and -
hey keep that diner on the table.... and in your belly !
Multi-hulls got it
Yeah. Trimarans are interesting for sure. A lot of the older ones don't really offer much in the way of living space below decks. They're kinda like narrow beam monos in that regards. But the newer tri's are making some interesting headway towards liviability and accommodations. I'll be curious to see what designs pop up over the next 10 yrs. In the mean time we'll be just fine with a cat. :)
Wish you had said up front that you were only talking about blow boats.
My Prius is a monohull
And at anchorage you can just drop it in the water, no separate anchor needed. ; )
Not romantic when people are puking all over the place. lol
the thing about sea sickness, even when you've puked it all out, you're still miserable. Been there, done that.
Kinda like a hang over with no end. lol
10-15 years is not very accurate. There are lots of cats from the 60s.
You left out draft. Particularly on a dagger board cat. There are some dagger board cats that can scooch up into 2 to 2 1/2 feet of water. Big advantage in sketchy anchorages and it vastly increases the possible choices for hurricane hole opportunities. Subsequently, the draft of dagger board cats are a big advantage in both safety and comfort. And even with mini-keel cats the daft can be half the draft of a mono hull, be for me the wretched upwind performance is a deal killer.
Oh yeah. Totally forgot to mention draft. Thanks for bringing it up!
Love the "Beginner's views" keep them coming.
The aspect of the big picture is this :
Where do you want to sail ? Where will you be sailing to - or some just live for cheap dockside lifestyle !
Some great and well outfitted boats can be found in off shore exotic ports . c h e a p
I heard about an old family friend that was ex-Navy avid sailor, had many boats.. finally took his lifetime dream voyage .... that turned into a nightmare with 3 storms on the way to Fiji.
Ha - they sold that damn boat in Fiji and flew home - never to sail again I might guess !
Did I mention he took his lady friend along on this voyage??
Somehow I imagine her being in hysteria !
Some just have bad luck the first time out on serious cruises....
and some will be wise in their choice of crew !
There's no guarantees in life, especially whilst sailing the oceans!
You guys should have way more subscribers! There's a lot of "sailing adventure" channels right now, but I haven't seen any that actually talk about the sailing part. It's all about drone footage of the beautiful places they get to without really covering the details of how they got there. I really like all the things you cover that are a bit more technical. Good luck to you and I will definitely be following your channel.
Hey thanks! Some day in the not too distant future we'll have our share of drone footage and tropical beaches, but yeah we want to show both the locations but also the adventure of just sailing and all the adventures (and misadventures) that brings. I figure as soon as we actually get a boat we'll get a lot more subscribers. In the meantime we'll document the "preboat" part of the journey. Thanks for the comment!
Highly recommend you check out Nikki and Jason www.gonewiththewynns.com/ if you haven't already.
Having just gone through what you're planning they can probably give you a good idea of what to expect cost wise.
Hi Jamie, thanks, we do watch the Nikki & Jason and have learned a lot. We're going to take a slightly different strategy than them which we're hoping will cost us less. But we also don't have as much of a budget as them so we'll have to take a slightly different tack. But yeah, we've learning a ton from them. Also from their videography, their style is so bright & colorful!
Really appreciate your efforts here. I have been scouring the Net for this type of information and your perspective and thoughts are exactly what I was looking for. I am looking to get into sailing and have been trying to get the right kind of infomation to point me in the right direction of how to start the process. Your videos were very illuminating. Thanks again!
Cool & thanks! Yeah we were in your shoes about 8 months ago. Its great to hear that the videos are helping you and people like you.
nicely done, and I favour cats... except for purchase costs, availability, maintenance costs, insurance costs, cost & availability of slips/docks in marinas... which is why i've spent my life owning mono's. But if money were NO OBJECT, I would run down to the local Outremer dealer and order up a 4x, or 5x, or maybe a Nautitech Bavaria Open design... *** sigh ***
in summary, the only negative for Cats is COSTS (all of the costs).
I do not buy into the argument that mono's are safer. Would you rather be upside down on top of the water, or, right-side up at the bottom of the ocean (what a waste of time argument that is).
The benefits of a Cat over a mono are just too numerous to mention.
But, i live on a budget, money is a concern, so i own two monos, and probably always will...
Hmmm, just tie the monos together with some super glue and duct tape and I think you have a cat! lol. But yeah, personally we'd tend to agree, the only real downside is the whole money thing.
So, J&R... I subscribed a while back, somewhere in the middle of your journey, and now have gone back to see your initial reasoning for buying the cat vs mono since that's ultimately what you did and the place I find myself in now...leaning toward cat after years of only considering a mono.
I am 3-6months from my early retirement and seriously ready to get mine in a slip to begin working toward my future sailing adventures. I'm a single 54yr old female with little experience since my teens. At this stage in life, comfort is key, however cash is still king.
I know anchoring out saves $$ and marina stays are significantly more for cats than monos...and harder to come by. Approximately what are you two spending monthly for your life aboard the cat...not including OB/GYN costs, since those days are behind me, LOL!! Matt & Jessica do a great job outlining monthly expenditures, as does Abandon Comfort, and occasionally Ruby Rose or Follow the Boat will share monthly costs but they are all monohulls...
Is it truly unmanageable? Do you two just have unlimited income? Or can I make a budget retirement work on a used cat in fairly decent shape? I'm afraid I'm fooling myself on costs just because that's the answer I prefer...
Mooring fees in a marina are a lot more expensive in a cat
If you are susceptible to seasickness get a cat!
Great to see that you did your homework and consider the individual points calmly!
Thanks!
My vote is for the cat
Safy 3rd
We all die
Live it up
I hope you guys would put up diagrams on your video for easier viewing and comparison. It makes your video more valuable.
No boat can fit all the requirements and conditions one meets. There is one issue which needs to be considered and that, in a sailing mono hull, the centre of gravity is always below the centre of buoyancy except when the boat is upside down, in which condition it will roll back to normal position, in total safety. I am not referring to the planing fast single hulls made of carbon fibre whose dead weight was known to have severed. A full keeled cruising boat is what I am referring to. A catamaran has its centre of gravity above the centre of buoyancy and that will makes it rock laterally much faster and if it capsizes then it will stay upside down. A fast rolling action in a boat will tire out the crew very quickly in a few days but a full keeled boat will give a pleasant long journey to the occupiers.
So I would say that for long, very long journeys where one can get caught out of harbour and cannot make it to a cosy harbour in time then a single hull with dead weight under it is advisable as it is more comfortable and safer. If one goes on short cruises where one can make harbour very quickly relatively speaking, then a catamaran will do and if one spends a lot of time anchored at a marina well then, the obvious choice is a catamaran.
Ive seen lots of monos come up from a roll with no...well all with broken masts, but some had a part of the cabin ripped off. Then theyre getting the lift raft ready incase another wave gets in and floods the cabin. Some with mast almost going through the side of the hull
I have owned 3 monohulls in the past. lenghts 35' 41' 50'. All bought previously owned.
I switched to multihull... a used Lagoon 500 cat (50') also previously owned.
And a few years ago traded that in for a Privilege Series 7. (74') Almost new.
For sailing thrills I have a Hobie F18 Wildcat. It literally sails circles around any monohull.
Having a small high performance multihull for fun avoids the enormous expensive if you want high performance combined with luxury. If this is important I reccomend looking at a Gunboat cat. I have done several ocean crossings and would not do a monohull ocean crossing again unless I was paid really well to do it. I would however, reccomend a beginning sailor to get a monohull though. I am convinced they make you a better sailor.
When has a Wharram ever flipped.
Monohulls starting to use gyro-stabilizers. TOTAL miss BUT we're adding complexity now too...and of course a laugh and smile at comfort gives the whole "balanced approach" away..
Ok so here one for the catamarans unique to the modern era :P If you put a solar roof on a 12 meter catamaran, and leave on the jib as a standard booster, you will have reliable and virtually costless speed and energy! (though, to be honest, trimarans would be the masters iff they weren't so expensive: the perfect size/weight/surface area for a solar/wind hybrid^^).
At the time I am writng this I am sailing near Cozumel. With A Sailor FBB satellite link I find it extremely easy to sail around to avoid hurricanes and storms. I find it disgusting that so many people leave multi-million dollar boats in a port they know will get hit. It makes my insurance premiums go up to pay for their new boat.
When i google which boat is more likely to flip it always just says mono will turn back around after flipping, but catamarans wont sink. Can i get a simple answer on which of the two is MORE LIKELY to flip in the first place please?
That's going to depend on the skills of the sailor.
It's... just not a comparable thing even really. On a mono with a weighted keel you can be smashed over so far the sail is in the wind shadow of the hull and it won't 'flip.' It would take a swell or something to help get the sail actually into the water, but yeah, then it's 99.99% going to right itself. Basically a non issue. One could almost say that they don't flip, but of course anything can and does happen.
On a catamaran, with enough load, you can lift one hull out of the water and possibly get it to go past 90 deg at which point the boat is going to settle into an inverted position. Also, in high enough waves, cats (particularly shorter cats) can 'pitchpole.' This is when the bow goes underwater and the boat does a forward flip.
I guess the TL:DR is if you are really scared of flipping don't get a cat. If you are really scared of sinking don't get a mono.
Who can handle well in tough seas especially 30' to 50' high waves? The 45-55' Mono or the 40-45' Cat? Which of the 2 can probably survive?
Best of both could be a cruising trimaran.
trimarans have their own set of issues
believe it or not for cruising you can not beat a cat
I'm at 0 hulls too. The day I bought my 30 foot mono haul, first mini yacht, I remember being so happy. And after a fantastic live aboard sailing summer, I remember being equally as happy the day I sold it. No more repairs or no winter marina fees, etc. Funny thing is on the day I bought it, and on the day I sold it, 2 different strangers, who were sea men, walked up and said the same thing to me. "The happiest day of a man life is when he buys his boat, and the 2nd happiest day is when he sells it." : )Lol. it seemed true to me. I wonder your thought on this? The insight you both shared on mono vs cat was very cool. Although I have never sailed a cat, I love the living space, the speeds they cruise at, the comforts and luxury, the shallow draft, the dual engines, and well laid out decks. Leaning about cats has resulted in my lost interest in mono hauls. I feel if I ever own a sail boat again it will be a cat between 40 and 50 feet long. But, they are more expensive in a big way, and that may be the ultimate road block for me to overcome. I sailed rough lakes and oceans in different mono haul boats and I always felt they were better and safer in stormy weather then cats could be in the same conditions. From your video, I concluded it would more likely be the captains knowledge and decisions that is the greatest factor in which boat is better in a storm. Nice video. Thanks for sharing.
you need to decide what sort of weather sailor you are , and if your only going to get limited use of any boat. Mono's and definitely fin keeled have to me moored well off shore , cats especially Wharram ones can just beach. Also depending on set up, some monos will need a minimum strength of wind to even move . Cats not so.
If a cat is not over rigged it wont capsize, and the motion is so much more kindly. less sea sickness and discomfort.
Thinking too big for either equals less fun for a multitude of reasons.
Hey guys I appreciate the information. I would like to give some constructive criticism. In this video there were over 13 cuts/splices on first person video in the first 60 secs. Learning how to blend your video with your software or just narrating with voice over on video or photos would help with this explanation and cut down the number of glitches the viewer will see.
Thanks for the vid folks, this is a tough convo with a lot of opinions. I love that you went topic by topic and really worked through all the data.
I'd love to see a follow up video 3 years later. How on target to you think your previous views were, are you still feeling like you are on the right boat, ect?
Thanks so much, first vid I've seen from you, you got a new sub today. I hope to keep following!