Smeargle can’t even sketch dark void anymore but yet they still nerf dark void anyway. Since mythical is not even allowable most of the time in competitive, they didn’t really need to do that
Darkrai, the embodiment of nightmares, has nightmares of only one thing: Smeargle. We should at least give it credit for putting the fear of Arceus into Darkrai.
as someone that plays a lot of ou: it would NOT be cool if Dondozo had a trapping move. Getting locked on the field as Dondozo clicks curse over and over again to become an unkillable sweeper sounds like actual hell LOL
I'd also like to mention that teatime (polteageist's signature move) is pretty bad as well, it makes everyone on the field eat their berries if they have one.
I think the reason it wasn't mentioned is that there aren't any moves out there that can be compared to teatime, making it, even by technicality, the best move of its kind out there.
Signature moves are always fascinating because if a pokemon gets it, it can often define how they're used if it synergizes with their ability/movepool, while other times they're jsut. There.
Can someone explain to me why no one talks about cross poison? I haven’t seen that move since I stopped playing sw&sh story and post game even though it’s a strong move, and was wondering why. High critical hit ratio 10% chance to poison with 70 bp and 100 accuracy seems so strong to not be used. And I guess it’s not wildly accessible since sw&sh where it was a tm but it is still learned by a few strong Pokémon.
One small correction on hisuian Goodra. It doesn’t run iron defense either. It instead runs acid armor, which has 5 more base pp than iron defense (8 after pp max), and 10 more than shelter (16 after pp max). It also is less likely to be available to Pokémon who learn imprison although that is rarely relevant.
An interesting way to address H.Goodra's would be to make it a Protect-like move that buffed defense by 1 stage when attacked. Not sure how broken that'd be competitively but it fits the move's intended design a lot more than just being worse iron defense. Edit: Kinda like how King’s Shield drops the attackers attack
Or make it a cosmic power clone, buffing def and spdef 1 stage each instead of def by 2. Aligns more with the PLA version and gives a choice btwn it and iron defense, depending on what you want to do
Alternatively, you could make it like a variant of Curse (increase Defense and Evasion, lower Speed) or an inverted version of Shell Smash (sharply increase Defense and Special Defense, sharply lower Speed).
here's some other signature moves that are really bad: Triple Kick: the older and worse version of it's younger brother Triple Axel as it maxes out at...30 power if all 3 hits connect Glaciate: for being Kyurem's signature move it is incredibly underwhelming being a slightly stronger icy wind Relic Song: ...why bother running this on meloetta to make her change into a physical attacker, there's no point
triple kick actually maxes out at 60 bp, but ye its pretty bad also glaciate isnt bad. underwhelming? sure. but stronger icy wind could never be straight bad
Ever heard of camouflage? What do you mean no? You mean you never heard of Starmie's signature move? The one that changes it's typing to pure normal and was added 2 generations after it's debut? Look this up. This is real
Lol. They did give it to (one) more pokemon a generation later though. Interestingly it resulted in ground typing in link battles in gen 5 only. Then it became a pretty interesting move with the advent of terrains, only to be removed from the game in gen 8...
Camouflage could have been good if they made it work like it's Z-Move variant and increase the users Evasion in addition to changing its type. Combo'd with Terrain Pulse and it could really catch people off guard.
As someone who loves Goodra and has it as their favorite Pokemon, I fucking despise what GF did to Shelter. They didn’t think of any other way to make it interesting. It’s literally just Iron Defense but WORSE
They could've. By letting it raise one stage of both Defense and Evasion. Instead, it's literally just Acid Armor/Iron Defense, just with less PP. And I don't care what any Competitive snob says; Shelter literally is Goodra retreating into its shell to raise its defenses and be obscured, so raising one stage of Defense and Evasion would not only be useful, it wouldn't be nearly as broken as raising both by two stages or something.
@@GhostGuy99 Well obviously it wouldn't be as broken as raising both by two stages😂 but still raising both by one stage is crazy. Pretty much eliminates the risk of clicking an evasion boosting move since the chance of survival if you're hit anyway also goes up. I honestly would have preferred if it raised defense by one stage and healed a bit (not as much as recover)
I wish powder was given more distribution. Giving it to something like Volcarona would be a cool way to mix up offensive fire types. I also need Gamefreak to change freeze to frostbite so bitter malice can achieve its full potential.
Gamefreak seriously hates the Frozen status and Ice Types as a whole. Bitter Malice could've just had a measly 10% chance to inflict freezing, just like Freezing Glare, and it just lowers Attack by one stage. You know what other cold-based moves lower Attack by one stage? Chilling Water and Bleakwind Storm. Why even have the Frozen status if you're going out of your way to make it as useless as possible? We live in an era where Badly Poisoned, Sleeping, Paralysis, and Confusion are constant thorns in our side; I think we can handle a status ailment that's just barely guaranteed to keep us frozen. Not even kidding, I once froze a Night Lycanroc with an Ice Fang while in a snowstorm, and it thawed out on the very turn that I froze it. And bear in mind, Lycanroc cannot learn any moves that can thaw itself out (not naturally, at least).
There's also Primarina signature Sparkling aria, a decent move with 90 power and also a sound base move, but the problem is that Primarina would rather use Scald, Surf, and even Hydro pump for reliable water stab, sometimes it can use a niche option in Liquid voice Hyper voice, Sparkling aria is basically the opposite of Scald, healing burn instead, which is extremely dumb since normally you would want to cripple a physical attacker with a burn for easier set up or for a teammate to take advantage, and that's the reason why Sparkling aria sees no use for Primarina
@@Grand-Master_Owl there actually some sets that use it though. It’s sound based, so if you want to run the throat spray it makes it so you don’t have to click hyper voice which is a spread move (and weaker if singles). But in general, true.
In Singles, Sparking Aria is the same as Hyper Voice but in some occasions worse due to potentially healing opponent's burn; with the only time it being actually beneficial is if opponent has Guts. So Scald (burn chance), Surf (stronger and also 100% accurate) or Hydro Pump (less accurate but much stronger) are better options across the board in Singles. In Doubles, Sparkling Aria is just Surf but with weaker power in exchange for healing burns. Depending on the situation, burn healing can be either beneficial or detrimental, but in most cases, detrimental (healing opponent's burn is beneficial if it runs Guts and/or Facade, which is situational, and ally having to take damage to have its' burn healed may not be worth; and no, Water Absorb/Storm Drain Pokemon can't get their burn healed by Sparkling Aria). You could say that Sparking Aria, being sound-based move, can bypass Substitutes should opponents use them (which are more prevalent in Singles than Doubles, but either way not used much but still), Hyper Voice can do the exact same thing, while having the same power AND not hitting the ally. It can't heal burns but the effect being positive is situational enough to not matter much. Sparkling Aria isn't 'bad', per se, but it is simply outclassed by other Water-type attacks.
@@user-jd5zt4of8q Still, doesn't make sense thematically. Aria is a musical piece for one voice, usually used and heard in opera performances (which matches Primarina's design). While Toxicrity is a guitarist; either rock one or metal one (I admit, I can't differentiate). Other than boost in viability, it won't do it any favors.
@@Oscarus4250 a lot of punk rockers (like Toxtricity) are also brilliant vocalists that not only can sing arias but actually do it... Think someone like Chester Bennington. And having this move would be so good for a Pokemon that is completely countered by Ground moves - along with having a Poison sound-type move for the 2nd STAB of course
some corrections: darkrai was accidentally referenced as a legendary, but i'll forgive this clamp was OP in gen 1 due to gen 1 weirdness(it prevented the opponent from moving while it was active), in a singles-only format, clamp can take down an opponent by sheer chance(wrap does the same thing) darkrai was technically legal in series [REDACTED],but we don't talk about gen 8's chaos formats. "powder" was accidentally shown as sing with sing's accuracy, though that one is hilarious because both have equally low usage.
@@MoxieBoosted OH,lol, I actually forgot that. woops! but yeah, clamp was a viable move in generation 1,but once it lost the ability to prevent an opponent's moves for up to 5 turns, it definitely became way less good.
I love gen 1 Cloyster on rhe ladder. Its not like the other "wrappers" either clamp is mixed in with its strange arsenal of tools. Body slam paralysis is the main thing that keeps it from being OP.
Another one: Kinesis being a reflavor of Sand Attack is accurate for Gen I, but not after that (Sand Attack changed types). I would've compared it to a worse version of Flash, especially since Kadabra learns Flash too!
@@cameronmyers5716 does sketch work permently on wifi battles? Wow, you know, ive never even considered how all these smeargles are learning dark void from an event legendary... okay so yeah I think I agree that sketch would be banned since it changes the move permanently in battle. Is that how sketch works? I always thought it was an in game replacement.
just to shed some light on the gen 1 moves, both multi hit moves and trapping moves have some very unique mechanics back then. multi hit moves basically have a hightened crit rate (since if any one of the hits crits they all do), and trapping moves like clamp actually prevent the opponent from moving or doing anything. when cloyster clamps something it can't switch and just sits there as cloyster repeatedly clamps for good damage, and clamp is unique for being way stronger compared to the other trapping moves. if you get the full 5 turns and don't miss then clamp is a 175 power move with no drawback, which can easily put things in range of blizzard or hyper beam
erm, actually (yeah, I'm gonna be that guy). H-Goodra doesn't learn Iron Defense per se, but instead Acid Armor (which still has more PP than shelter, I was just being a nuisance lol)
I think Spicy Extract is a pretty strange one. Scovillain's signature move which lowers the target's Defense by 2 stages but raises their Attack by 2 stages as well As a midspeed mon, Scovillain struggles with both using this to boost an ally before the ally attacks or using this to cripple an opponent before your ally attacks them. Scovillain itself can hardly make use of the Defense drop given its physical movepool is terrible (its vest Fire stab is Fire Fang) In general this move feels incredibly situational. Would have good synergy on a Opportunist mon and it does sorta combo well with Foul Play but in general its a pretty weak move that does not synergize with anything else on the pretty weak pokemon it comes from
Ideas for Revamps Kinesis: Lowers the targets evasion and makes it so the following move will always hit (like Lock-On, except it works for ally's moves). It keeps its low base accuracy as a tradeoff. Clamp: Increases the users Defense for every turn used, boosts wear off when the effect ends. Payday: Deals double damage if the user is holding an Amulet Coin or Luck Incense, or if Happy Hour is in effect. Powder: Affect both opponents, also increases damage taken by Fire moves (like the revision for Tar Shot). Shelter: Sharply increases Defense, increases Special Defense, and lowers Speed. Fillet Away: DRASTICALLY (three stages) raises the users Attack, Special Attack, and Speed. (Z-Sketch was pretty good) Also, some moves you didn't mention (with upgrades) Vital Throw (Machop, Gen II): Reduced priority, cannot miss. (+ If the user took damage, deals a critical hit.) Camouflage (Staryu, Gen III): Changes type depending on arena/terrain. (+ Increases Evasion by one stage.) Triple Kick (Hitmontop, Gen II): Attacks three times in a row (+ Damage increases with each consecutive hit.) Shift Gear (Klink, Gen V): Sharply increases Attack and increases Speed (+ Doubles the damage of Gear Grind.) Glaciate (Kyurem, Gen V): Inflects damages and (+ sharply) lowers both opponents Speed. Fire Lash (Heatmor, Gen VI): Inflicts damage and lowers the targets Defense (+ Has a heightened Critical Hit ratio.) Noble Roar (Litleo, Gen VI): Increases users Attack and Special Attack (+ If the users stats were lowered this turn, sharply increases users stats.) Aromatic Mist (Aromatisse, Gen VI): Increases Special Defense of ally (+ user).
@@goGothitaLOL that’s my point though-that move would be kind of meh if it was another type. The secondary effect is incredibly niche vs other staples like iron head that are just way better and you have moves like moon blast, flamethrower, earthquake, liquidation, etc etc that just hit significantly harder. It’s only 10 more power than uturn. It’s a great move because the other physical ice moves suck, but compare it to other types where the moves are just so much better. The only types that completely lacks moves like ice are rock and flying.
Some of these moves, especially the gen 1 ones, were meant to be early-level moves when they don't even have a full moveset yet. Even if it's just a copy of a different move or a plain worse version of other moves, they add some flavor to the opponents you fight throughout the storyline.
What about purify, pyukumuku's signature move (heals your partner's status condition, which is both extremely niche and extremely low value plus it requires you to run pyukumuku), freeze shock and ice burn, kyurem black and white's signature moves (140 power 90 accuracy charge move with a 30% paralysis or burn chance, minor upgrade over sky attack but terrible for the same reasons), rolling kick, hitmonlee's signature move (60 power, 85 accuracy, 30% flinch chance, which is a straight-up downgrade from stuff like iron head, air slash and icicle crash) and shell trap, turtonator's signature move (150 power fire move but that requires you to get hit by an opponent's physical move to activate, generally a downgrade from counter since it has a type meaning it can be resisted, and if you want fire stab there are way more reliable options)
Ooh I got one: Twin Beam, the move that Girafarig learns that's required for it to evolve into Farigiraf. It's cool that it hits twice, but it's unfortunately an effective 80 base power, which basically means that no one is using it over Psychic or Psyshock
It does bypass focus sash, and I think a farigiraf running it recently did quite well at a major VGC event. But in general yes, psyshock/psychic are a lot better
Since you forgot some signature moves: Fairy Lock, Eerie spell, Night Daze, Snap Trap, Meteor Assault, Ice Burn Some not sure abt: Magic Powder, Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse, Freeze Shock (Kyurem B had no physical Ice moves than it for some gens), Spin Out, Doodle and Spicy extract, Bitter Malice
9:42 funny u mentioned the whole kowtow kleave and false surrender being the same concept literally- so much so I combined them into one unique move for both of them in my rom hack 💀 and used false surrenders animation for a widespread dark recoil move
A potential proposal for how to fix shelter: make it have the effect of iron defense... while removing the user's dragon type for the turn, allowing it to resist fairy type moves for the turn. this being because hisuian goodra hides in its metal shell, meaning that probably wouldn't be hit as though it were a dragon-type.
If they wanted kinesis to be more interesting, they could change the move to essentially be a one turn mimic. Where the user gets to select a move from their opponent and use it against them as a psychic type move.
The answer to why they still nerfed Dark Void to 50%: because it still massively sucked in these formats that *did* allow it, there are doubles formats that aren't VGC; heck thing was toxic even in singles. Easy as that
In gen 1 clamp works in a different way: if you use it the target will not be able to take an action during the next turn (so it will not be able to attack or switch) This is actually really strong because it can be used in two different ways, either be spammed until the target is in range for being koed and then killed (it can't switch) or as a sort of U-turn (you hit something and you give a safe switchin to one of your partners). So yeah, in gen 1 it is actually a really good signature move
Farigiraf's signature move Twin Beam is so close to being good, if it was 5 bade power stronger it'd be Psychic That Breaks Sashes, but its just weaker than Psychic on a Pokemon that doesnt hit very hard.
this could've been changed i guess but i'm playing x right now and goomy can learn curse and acid armor as an egg move making shelter literally useless lol
Any signature move that has good flavour is a “good” signature move, because even if it’s bad in competitive, then at least it’s funny. In my casual playthrough of Shield, I had fun with doubles strats in Raihan’s gym. My Polteageist’s Teatime triggered my Ripen Appletun’s Salac Berry, and later I used a Decorate Alcremie as well 😁
dont forget that in gen 8, darkest lariat became a tr that grimmsnarl could learn, which is slightly stronger than false surrender, same pp, 100% accurate, and ignores stat changes, which would include evasion boosts. Like it literally just had a better option in every way (ig itd be better if grimmsnarl had its accuracy lowered, but muddy water never hits its fine)
Clamp was actually amazing in gen 1 since partial trapping moves stopped the opponent from moving and even allowed you to switch in for free if you landed it on the previous turn, acting as a hybrid of a flinch move and U-turn
How I would improve some of these signature moves (besides simply increasing the move’s power or accuracy) -Powder, turn it into a field effect, turning it from a move most effective if you are able to make a read that your opponent is going to use a fire type move, into a move that pressures the opponent into not using any fire type attacks -Shelter, either give it more PP than Iron Defence, have it increase Defence stat by +3, or having it increase Defence by +2 and Sp. Def by +1 -Fillet Away, setting Attack, Sp. Attack, and Speed to +6 might be a little too op, it could set those three stats to +4 each instead if that’s more balanced
Signature moves are funny sometimes because nowadays Game Freak really wants to make every Pokemon unique by giving them, or signature abilities, to every 2 or 3 Pokemon. But then the old mons just... get nothing? And when they DID go back to older mons? ...Gen 7 came up with Toxic Thread for Ariados, and Fire Lash for Heatmor (which got de-signatured next gen with Salazzle and Centiskorch anyway). Take it or leave it.
Correction: Hisuian goodra actually doesnt get iron defense, but instead gets acid armor as an evolution move from sligoo, which has max 32pp instead of shelter or iron defemse's 16
I cant believe you didnt mention thunder cage, but i wouldnt blame you if you just forgot it exists because really who remembers that regieleki has a signature move
It's absolutely terrible in comp, but Pay Day is top tier in Emerald Rogue. That's a Roguelike hack where money is in short supply, and fainted mons get dropped from your team, taking any TMs, tutor moves, and held items with them. Being able to rebuild can be the difference between wiping to a Gym Leader or not, and Pay Day lets you farm a meaningful chunk of extra money without risking your team against trainers. And if you do beat some trainers, you'll be ballin out of control and can slam Mints on everything while stockpiling important TMs (like Protect for your 4x weaknesses). I'd legitimately rather start my run with a Meowth holding an Amulet Coin than with the likes of Mega Mewtwo, because the extra money from Pay Day is just that good for your whole team on your whole run.
unpopular opinion: Dark Void can have it's accuracy buffed back up to 80 because it's currently hard coded to fail unless Darkrai uses it and Mythicals are never VGC legal. Heck, Smeargal can't even Sketch it anymore as of Gen 9. As for other moves: - if Kinesis lowered Accuracy by 2 stages, that 80 accuracy would be justified - Barrage is trash. Needs to be buffed and made grass-type like you said. - Clamp got nerfed due to the changes to trapping moves that were implemented in Gen 2 onwards. In Gen 1, running it on Cloyster was not bad since Cloyster couldn't learn any other trapping moves, and trapping moves were busted in gen 1. I think it's fine as tbh, but when you have the perfect accuracy trapping move of infestation which was a TM, all other trapping moves kind of fail in comparison - Powder is trash. not worth using - I like Tar Shot, but it is pretty niche and not very useful. I think the change you made makes sense - False Surrender got done dirty. lol - Shelter is disgusting in Legends Arceus, but in the mainline games it got done dirty - Triple Dive should of got the Triple Kick treatment were it gets stronger on each consecutive hit - Filet Away is just Belly Drum at Home
As a Raichu boi, volt tackle is one of those moves that makes me scratch my head. It's an AWESOME move. Except, it has recoil. That would normally be fine, but for pokemon as squishy as the Raichu line, it's not really a good choice unless you have some kind of healing setup. I know that moves with a power of >110 must have drawbacks, but like. I feel that decreased accuracy and crash damage would be a better fit for it.
A couple of reworks that might help: 1. Make shelter recover hp or increse the Evasiveness. 2. Make filet away give a +3 or +6 to the stats. Not needed the +12 that belly drum gives because that is too broken
Kinesis should be a freeze dry type move, dealing super effective damage to steel types. Alakazam can bend spoons so it makes sense that he’d be able to bend steel with this move.
Use code MOXIE50 to get 50% OFF your first Factor box plus 20% off your next month at bit.ly/3VG1dhE!
I'd rather eat Arby's
I'd love for you to talk about Smogon Doubles OU ngl
A Bug/Steel Regional or Paradox Vivillon would be pretty rad. It could *actually have a potential use* for Powder if Fire is all it's weak to.
I don't even need the thumbnail to know that Dark Void is the star of the show. Smeargle must pay for its crimes.
It didn’t deserve it
Smeargle can’t even sketch dark void anymore but yet they still nerf dark void anyway. Since mythical is not even allowable most of the time in competitive, they didn’t really need to do that
Give Smeargle the death sentence
Darkrai, the embodiment of nightmares, has nightmares of only one thing: Smeargle. We should at least give it credit for putting the fear of Arceus into Darkrai.
I’ll always hate Smeargle for what he did to my favorite Mon. That bastard…
as someone that plays a lot of ou: it would NOT be cool if Dondozo had a trapping move. Getting locked on the field as Dondozo clicks curse over and over again to become an unkillable sweeper sounds like actual hell LOL
Dondozo with a Clamp would be busted yeah
Counterpoint: LOL
The differences between formats strike again
omg hi
That's why we don't see breloom on doubles. :/
Bibarel back in gen 4 had 6 signature moves being surf, waterfall, rock smash, rock climb, strength and cut
I'd also like to mention that teatime (polteageist's signature move) is pretty bad as well, it makes everyone on the field eat their berries if they have one.
yeah that move is just far too situational to get any use out of
I think WeedleTwineedle used this in a fun gimmick team once, but that's not exactly the same thing as "competitively viable".
I think the reason it wasn't mentioned is that there aren't any moves out there that can be compared to teatime, making it, even by technicality, the best move of its kind out there.
@@regi5165
And it's not like it could be 'upgraded' in any way.
@@IronDino it actually would be amazing if it had a simultaneous effect of Harvest
Ah yes sing, my favorite bug type move
There was a shocking amount of incorrect information in this video. I'm starting to wonder how much research he does.
@@cradiculousprobably just editing issues
6:15 it says normal right there? Oh later yeah def editing issues since he said powder
@@theshadowking3198 There are other things too, like getting the accuracy for Triple Dive wrong.
Signature moves are always fascinating because if a pokemon gets it, it can often define how they're used if it synergizes with their ability/movepool, while other times they're jsut. There.
This is the most Ai of the Ais
Big oopsie on the powder section
Also the patreon scroll broke my bad!
Hate to beat a dying horse but h-goodra gets acid armor not iron defense
Same situation but one is an a lot cooler sounding move
Can someone explain to me why no one talks about cross poison? I haven’t seen that move since I stopped playing sw&sh story and post game even though it’s a strong move, and was wondering why. High critical hit ratio 10% chance to poison with 70 bp and 100 accuracy seems so strong to not be used. And I guess it’s not wildly accessible since sw&sh where it was a tm but it is still learned by a few strong Pokémon.
@@bresrk poison jab is more reliable and better poison chance
@@MoxieBoosted yeah just realized
It'd go crazy on sharpness pokes with a razor claw, tho
One small correction on hisuian Goodra. It doesn’t run iron defense either. It instead runs acid armor, which has 5 more base pp than iron defense (8 after pp max), and 10 more than shelter (16 after pp max). It also is less likely to be available to Pokémon who learn imprison although that is rarely relevant.
Shoutouts to the generous patreon supporters such as
As well as
And specially
For making this video possible
The scroll broke 🥲
@@MoxieBoostedthe pateons are getting their money's worth 🔥🔥🗣🗣
Darkrai didn’t deserve to catch strays just because Smeargle was copying its flow
In Gen 1, Waterfall was the signature move of the Seaking line. It was a worse version of Surf.
9:53 they are not the same move, Kowtow is boosted by Sharpness, False Surrender isn’t.
common Kingambit W
That would be an important distinction if Kingambit had access to the sharpness ability or if a Pokemon with sharpness had access to Kowtow Cleave
An interesting way to address H.Goodra's would be to make it a Protect-like move that buffed defense by 1 stage when attacked. Not sure how broken that'd be competitively but it fits the move's intended design a lot more than just being worse iron defense.
Edit: Kinda like how King’s Shield drops the attackers attack
Or make it a cosmic power clone, buffing def and spdef 1 stage each instead of def by 2. Aligns more with the PLA version and gives a choice btwn it and iron defense, depending on what you want to do
Alternatively, you could make it like a variant of Curse (increase Defense and Evasion, lower Speed) or an inverted version of Shell Smash (sharply increase Defense and Special Defense, sharply lower Speed).
Salt cure should be a one shot 😂
Or just make it a Defencive Tail Glow
Goodra-H surprisingly doesn't learn iron defense, but that doesn't matter because it learns acid armour which also outclasses shelter
here's some other signature moves that are really bad:
Triple Kick: the older and worse version of it's younger brother Triple Axel as it maxes out at...30 power if all 3 hits connect
Glaciate: for being Kyurem's signature move it is incredibly underwhelming being a slightly stronger icy wind
Relic Song: ...why bother running this on meloetta to make her change into a physical attacker, there's no point
Triple Kick can be learned by Pheramosa and is no longer exclusive to Hitmontop
@@plazmurr but since pheromosa isn't in gen 9 it's back to being Hitmontop's signature, so it counts
And don’t forget that Triple Kick doesn’t scale, unlike Triple Axel
triple kick actually maxes out at 60 bp, but ye its pretty bad
also glaciate isnt bad. underwhelming? sure. but stronger icy wind could never be straight bad
@@EpiclyEpicGamer yeah Glaciate isn't "bad" in a true context, its just underwhelming
Ever heard of camouflage? What do you mean no? You mean you never heard of Starmie's signature move? The one that changes it's typing to pure normal and was added 2 generations after it's debut?
Look this up. This is real
Lol. They did give it to (one) more pokemon a generation later though. Interestingly it resulted in ground typing in link battles in gen 5 only.
Then it became a pretty interesting move with the advent of terrains, only to be removed from the game in gen 8...
Camouflage could have been good if they made it work like it's Z-Move variant and increase the users Evasion in addition to changing its type.
Combo'd with Terrain Pulse and it could really catch people off guard.
As someone who loves Goodra and has it as their favorite Pokemon, I fucking despise what GF did to Shelter. They didn’t think of any other way to make it interesting. It’s literally just Iron Defense but WORSE
Could’ve easily been a Steel-type Cosmic Power
@@goGothitaLOL let him cook
They could've. By letting it raise one stage of both Defense and Evasion. Instead, it's literally just Acid Armor/Iron Defense, just with less PP.
And I don't care what any Competitive snob says; Shelter literally is Goodra retreating into its shell to raise its defenses and be obscured, so raising one stage of Defense and Evasion would not only be useful, it wouldn't be nearly as broken as raising both by two stages or something.
@@GhostGuy99 Well obviously it wouldn't be as broken as raising both by two stages😂 but still raising both by one stage is crazy. Pretty much eliminates the risk of clicking an evasion boosting move since the chance of survival if you're hit anyway also goes up. I honestly would have preferred if it raised defense by one stage and healed a bit (not as much as recover)
I wish powder was given more distribution. Giving it to something like Volcarona would be a cool way to mix up offensive fire types.
I also need Gamefreak to change freeze to frostbite so bitter malice can achieve its full potential.
Gamefreak seriously hates the Frozen status and Ice Types as a whole.
Bitter Malice could've just had a measly 10% chance to inflict freezing, just like Freezing Glare, and it just lowers Attack by one stage.
You know what other cold-based moves lower Attack by one stage? Chilling Water and Bleakwind Storm.
Why even have the Frozen status if you're going out of your way to make it as useless as possible?
We live in an era where Badly Poisoned, Sleeping, Paralysis, and Confusion are constant thorns in our side; I think we can handle a status ailment that's just barely guaranteed to keep us frozen. Not even kidding, I once froze a Night Lycanroc with an Ice Fang while in a snowstorm, and it thawed out on the very turn that I froze it. And bear in mind, Lycanroc cannot learn any moves that can thaw itself out (not naturally, at least).
1:25 ah yes, because everyone knows how prevalent Steel types are in gen 1 OU.
Magnetons are such a menace with that steel typing in gen 1
@@pugstickthey forgot about their steel type until gen 2 😢
There's also Primarina signature Sparkling aria, a decent move with 90 power and also a sound base move, but the problem is that Primarina would rather use Scald, Surf, and even Hydro pump for reliable water stab, sometimes it can use a niche option in Liquid voice Hyper voice, Sparkling aria is basically the opposite of Scald, healing burn instead, which is extremely dumb since normally you would want to cripple a physical attacker with a burn for easier set up or for a teammate to take advantage, and that's the reason why Sparkling aria sees no use for Primarina
@@Grand-Master_Owl there actually some sets that use it though. It’s sound based, so if you want to run the throat spray it makes it so you don’t have to click hyper voice which is a spread move (and weaker if singles). But in general, true.
In Singles, Sparking Aria is the same as Hyper Voice but in some occasions worse due to potentially healing opponent's burn; with the only time it being actually beneficial is if opponent has Guts. So Scald (burn chance), Surf (stronger and also 100% accurate) or Hydro Pump (less accurate but much stronger) are better options across the board in Singles.
In Doubles, Sparkling Aria is just Surf but with weaker power in exchange for healing burns. Depending on the situation, burn healing can be either beneficial or detrimental, but in most cases, detrimental (healing opponent's burn is beneficial if it runs Guts and/or Facade, which is situational, and ally having to take damage to have its' burn healed may not be worth; and no, Water Absorb/Storm Drain Pokemon can't get their burn healed by Sparkling Aria). You could say that Sparking Aria, being sound-based move, can bypass Substitutes should opponents use them (which are more prevalent in Singles than Doubles, but either way not used much but still), Hyper Voice can do the exact same thing, while having the same power AND not hitting the ally. It can't heal burns but the effect being positive is situational enough to not matter much.
Sparkling Aria isn't 'bad', per se, but it is simply outclassed by other Water-type attacks.
@@Oscarus4250 Toxtricity should get Sparkling Aria - it fits the design so well and it needs more coverage Sound moves
@@user-jd5zt4of8q Still, doesn't make sense thematically. Aria is a musical piece for one voice, usually used and heard in opera performances (which matches Primarina's design). While Toxicrity is a guitarist; either rock one or metal one (I admit, I can't differentiate). Other than boost in viability, it won't do it any favors.
@@Oscarus4250 a lot of punk rockers (like Toxtricity) are also brilliant vocalists that not only can sing arias but actually do it... Think someone like Chester Bennington.
And having this move would be so good for a Pokemon that is completely countered by Ground moves - along with having a Poison sound-type move for the 2nd STAB of course
Fun fact: Barrage is one of the best moves in Mystery Dungeon, it has really good range and damage.
Unless the target uses counter (which is stupidly strong in PMD) and smack the attacker every time it hits.
They ruined parting shot by giving it to incineroar
some corrections:
darkrai was accidentally referenced as a legendary, but i'll forgive this
clamp was OP in gen 1 due to gen 1 weirdness(it prevented the opponent from moving while it was active), in a singles-only format, clamp can take down an opponent by sheer chance(wrap does the same thing)
darkrai was technically legal in series [REDACTED],but we don't talk about gen 8's chaos formats.
"powder" was accidentally shown as sing with sing's accuracy, though that one is hilarious because both have equally low usage.
Darkai wasn't in gen 8
@@MoxieBoosted OH,lol, I actually forgot that. woops! but yeah, clamp was a viable move in generation 1,but once it lost the ability to prevent an opponent's moves for up to 5 turns, it definitely became way less good.
I love gen 1 Cloyster on rhe ladder. Its not like the other "wrappers" either clamp is mixed in with its strange arsenal of tools. Body slam paralysis is the main thing that keeps it from being OP.
Mythical is a kind of legendary and I will die on this hill
Another one: Kinesis being a reflavor of Sand Attack is accurate for Gen I, but not after that (Sand Attack changed types). I would've compared it to a worse version of Flash, especially since Kadabra learns Flash too!
Octazooka is one i remember from the top of my head that was missed. Horsea and grapploct got it later tho
"Damn, I forgot to put Spore on my Smeargle. Maybe I'll get matched against an Amoonguss round 1 so I can Sketch it mid-battle."
Would that count as a DQ because now it doesn't match your team sheet?
@@DarkusFireBlaze3582 would Mimic also be a banned move? Ditto isn't banned. I think sketch would be fine.
@@matd2892I’m pretty sure they meant that it would no longer match team sheet for the rest of the tournament
@@cameronmyers5716 does sketch work permently on wifi battles?
Wow, you know, ive never even considered how all these smeargles are learning dark void from an event legendary... okay so yeah I think I agree that sketch would be banned since it changes the move permanently in battle. Is that how sketch works? I always thought it was an in game replacement.
@@matd2892idk if that’s how it works but I believe that’s what the joke was
just to shed some light on the gen 1 moves, both multi hit moves and trapping moves have some very unique mechanics back then. multi hit moves basically have a hightened crit rate (since if any one of the hits crits they all do), and trapping moves like clamp actually prevent the opponent from moving or doing anything. when cloyster clamps something it can't switch and just sits there as cloyster repeatedly clamps for good damage, and clamp is unique for being way stronger compared to the other trapping moves. if you get the full 5 turns and don't miss then clamp is a 175 power move with no drawback, which can easily put things in range of blizzard or hyper beam
erm, actually (yeah, I'm gonna be that guy). H-Goodra doesn't learn Iron Defense per se, but instead Acid Armor (which still has more PP than shelter, I was just being a nuisance lol)
LETS GO SPIDOPS GANG SILK TRAP A GOOD MOVE!!!!!
I think Spicy Extract is a pretty strange one. Scovillain's signature move which lowers the target's Defense by 2 stages but raises their Attack by 2 stages as well
As a midspeed mon, Scovillain struggles with both using this to boost an ally before the ally attacks or using this to cripple an opponent before your ally attacks them. Scovillain itself can hardly make use of the Defense drop given its physical movepool is terrible (its vest Fire stab is Fire Fang)
In general this move feels incredibly situational. Would have good synergy on a Opportunist mon and it does sorta combo well with Foul Play but in general its a pretty weak move that does not synergize with anything else on the pretty weak pokemon it comes from
I’ve seen it be used along side Foul Play to great effect, but that is still pretty niche.
Could Spicy Extract not work in doubles though when the ally uses Protect?
@@user-jd5zt4of8qit works if the ally has a clear amulet
Ideas for Revamps
Kinesis: Lowers the targets evasion and makes it so the following move will always hit (like Lock-On, except it works for ally's moves). It keeps its low base accuracy as a tradeoff.
Clamp: Increases the users Defense for every turn used, boosts wear off when the effect ends.
Payday: Deals double damage if the user is holding an Amulet Coin or Luck Incense, or if Happy Hour is in effect.
Powder: Affect both opponents, also increases damage taken by Fire moves (like the revision for Tar Shot).
Shelter: Sharply increases Defense, increases Special Defense, and lowers Speed.
Fillet Away: DRASTICALLY (three stages) raises the users Attack, Special Attack, and Speed.
(Z-Sketch was pretty good)
Also, some moves you didn't mention (with upgrades)
Vital Throw (Machop, Gen II): Reduced priority, cannot miss. (+ If the user took damage, deals a critical hit.)
Camouflage (Staryu, Gen III): Changes type depending on arena/terrain. (+ Increases Evasion by one stage.)
Triple Kick (Hitmontop, Gen II): Attacks three times in a row (+ Damage increases with each consecutive hit.)
Shift Gear (Klink, Gen V): Sharply increases Attack and increases Speed (+ Doubles the damage of Gear Grind.)
Glaciate (Kyurem, Gen V): Inflects damages and (+ sharply) lowers both opponents Speed.
Fire Lash (Heatmor, Gen VI): Inflicts damage and lowers the targets Defense (+ Has a heightened Critical Hit ratio.)
Noble Roar (Litleo, Gen VI): Increases users Attack and Special Attack (+ If the users stats were lowered this turn, sharply increases users stats.)
Aromatic Mist (Aromatisse, Gen VI): Increases Special Defense of ally (+ user).
In a world where Crabominable existed, Ice Hammer is definitely in the underwhelming camp. A retyping of a pretty mid move.
Except the difference is there’s a ton of good fighting moves but practically zero good physical ice moves
It’s actually easily crabs best ice move, but crab sucks so it kinda doesn’t matter
@@tbone6032Ice Spinner?
Even if it took them this long
@@goGothitaLOL that’s my point though-that move would be kind of meh if it was another type. The secondary effect is incredibly niche vs other staples like iron head that are just way better and you have moves like moon blast, flamethrower, earthquake, liquidation, etc etc that just hit significantly harder. It’s only 10 more power than uturn. It’s a great move because the other physical ice moves suck, but compare it to other types where the moves are just so much better. The only types that completely lacks moves like ice are rock and flying.
@@tbone6032 Ice Hammer was actually a beast in a playthrough though... With Crab's Attack it could almost always OHKO
Some of these moves, especially the gen 1 ones, were meant to be early-level moves when they don't even have a full moveset yet. Even if it's just a copy of a different move or a plain worse version of other moves, they add some flavor to the opponents you fight throughout the storyline.
What about purify, pyukumuku's signature move (heals your partner's status condition, which is both extremely niche and extremely low value plus it requires you to run pyukumuku), freeze shock and ice burn, kyurem black and white's signature moves (140 power 90 accuracy charge move with a 30% paralysis or burn chance, minor upgrade over sky attack but terrible for the same reasons), rolling kick, hitmonlee's signature move (60 power, 85 accuracy, 30% flinch chance, which is a straight-up downgrade from stuff like iron head, air slash and icicle crash) and shell trap, turtonator's signature move (150 power fire move but that requires you to get hit by an opponent's physical move to activate, generally a downgrade from counter since it has a type meaning it can be resisted, and if you want fire stab there are way more reliable options)
Ooh I got one: Twin Beam, the move that Girafarig learns that's required for it to evolve into Farigiraf. It's cool that it hits twice, but it's unfortunately an effective 80 base power, which basically means that no one is using it over Psychic or Psyshock
It does bypass focus sash, and I think a farigiraf running it recently did quite well at a major VGC event. But in general yes, psyshock/psychic are a lot better
It has fringe usage in breaking sturdy/sash, mostly singleplayer, but it does occasionally pop up as a fourth move on farigiraf
@@WalkinStereotype does it work on substitute? i could see it being useful like that
Focus sash Meinshao was a thing for a bit, so Twin Beam actually did see some usage to counter that
Saved me the comment, thank you!
"False Surrender" is such a cool sounding name though.
Since you forgot some signature moves: Fairy Lock, Eerie spell, Night Daze, Snap Trap, Meteor Assault, Ice Burn
Some not sure abt: Magic Powder, Trick-or-Treat and Forest's Curse, Freeze Shock (Kyurem B had no physical Ice moves than it for some gens), Spin Out, Doodle and Spicy extract, Bitter Malice
Isn’t Night Daze a stronger and slightly less accurate Dark Pulse?
@@goGothitaLOL 85 power 95 accuracy with a 40% chance to lower accuracy
i love the parallel with the crabrawler's iron defense vs the goodra shelter, very well done!
This dude really just winning, he got good aim, good hair, good voice, W mans
loved seeing all the patrons and the end card at the end of the video!
TIL Veluza had a signature move...and how to say its name.
2:27 of course Kinesis worse than Sand Attack, nothing beats pocket sand
9:42 funny u mentioned the whole kowtow kleave and false surrender being the same concept literally- so much so I combined them into one unique move for both of them in my rom hack 💀 and used false surrenders animation for a widespread dark recoil move
Literally how did you miss splash?
Now even though it's literally useless, it did however was used in swsh vgc where it surprisingly became useful
Lmao you got me with sketch, well played well played
A potential proposal for how to fix shelter:
make it have the effect of iron defense... while removing the user's dragon type for the turn, allowing it to resist fairy type moves for the turn. this being because hisuian goodra hides in its metal shell, meaning that probably wouldn't be hit as though it were a dragon-type.
I'm kinda sad you didn't bring up how partial trapping works in gen 1 when talking about clamp
Shellter can be cool if it has the same pp as iron defense and lowers it speed, making it better in trick room strategys with body press.
I'd love to see a video on how you'd re-balance type match ups for generation 10.
8:59 Torkoal: “Do it, make my Eruption *stronger!”*
Video on all signature moves
make barrage a grass type scale shot with spdf drops and speed increase
If that tar shot change was in game then Tailwind tar shot eruption or heat wave would crazy
If they wanted kinesis to be more interesting, they could change the move to essentially be a one turn mimic. Where the user gets to select a move from their opponent and use it against them as a psychic type move.
I don't even play pokemon anymore and you still make this topic very interesting.
The answer to why they still nerfed Dark Void to 50%: because it still massively sucked in these formats that *did* allow it, there are doubles formats that aren't VGC; heck thing was toxic even in singles. Easy as that
Yes !!!
note: it said sing not powder for the descripton of the move powder
In gen 1 clamp works in a different way: if you use it the target will not be able to take an action during the next turn (so it will not be able to attack or switch)
This is actually really strong because it can be used in two different ways, either be spammed until the target is in range for being koed and then killed (it can't switch) or as a sort of U-turn (you hit something and you give a safe switchin to one of your partners).
So yeah, in gen 1 it is actually a really good signature move
Farigiraf's signature move Twin Beam is so close to being good, if it was 5 bade power stronger it'd be Psychic That Breaks Sashes, but its just weaker than Psychic on a Pokemon that doesnt hit very hard.
this could've been changed i guess but i'm playing x right now and goomy can learn curse and acid armor as an egg move making shelter literally useless lol
Any signature move that has good flavour is a “good” signature move, because even if it’s bad in competitive, then at least it’s funny.
In my casual playthrough of Shield, I had fun with doubles strats in Raihan’s gym. My Polteageist’s Teatime triggered my Ripen Appletun’s Salac Berry, and later I used a Decorate Alcremie as well 😁
6:53 “Sing 55 accuracy. If using a fire move, target loses 1/4 HP.”
6:55 you called powder "sing"
I'd love for you to talk about Smogon Doubles OU ngl
The problem with clamp is that the JP name is literally “to clamp with shells” so it can really only be used by shell smash users
Clamp was an awesome move in gen 1 back when the Trappers meant your opponent did not get a turn
dont forget that in gen 8, darkest lariat became a tr that grimmsnarl could learn, which is slightly stronger than false surrender, same pp, 100% accurate, and ignores stat changes, which would include evasion boosts. Like it literally just had a better option in every way (ig itd be better if grimmsnarl had its accuracy lowered, but muddy water never hits its fine)
Hey I actually used Tar Shot Smeargle on a Ho-Oh team this Regulation. Was fun
alright Dark Void, take a seat.
Didn't finish the video yet but This Thumbnail Goes CRAZY ASF, like usual
Surprised that Purify wasn't mentioned. I've never seen a pyukumuku click that move ever.
Hey Marcos. Where does Trick-or-Treat or Forest's Curse land on this list?
Pay Day should be buffed to Normal physical make it rain… or even just 60 BP spread to use technician
Shocked that twineedle didn’t make the list
Clamp was actually amazing in gen 1 since partial trapping moves stopped the opponent from moving and even allowed you to switch in for free if you landed it on the previous turn, acting as a hybrid of a flinch move and U-turn
Shell Smash only cuts the user's Defences to 2/3, not 1/2
2:04 of course it isn’t cutting it, it doesn’t exist anymore.
I think you could maybe forgot the signature mov of scovilian
honey wake up moxie boosted dropped a video
How I would improve some of these signature moves (besides simply increasing the move’s power or accuracy)
-Powder, turn it into a field effect, turning it from a move most effective if you are able to make a read that your opponent is going to use a fire type move, into a move that pressures the opponent into not using any fire type attacks
-Shelter, either give it more PP than Iron Defence, have it increase Defence stat by +3, or having it increase Defence by +2 and Sp. Def by +1
-Fillet Away, setting Attack, Sp. Attack, and Speed to +6 might be a little too op, it could set those three stats to +4 each instead if that’s more balanced
Signature moves are funny sometimes because nowadays Game Freak really wants to make every Pokemon unique by giving them, or signature abilities, to every 2 or 3 Pokemon. But then the old mons just... get nothing? And when they DID go back to older mons? ...Gen 7 came up with Toxic Thread for Ariados, and Fire Lash for Heatmor (which got de-signatured next gen with Salazzle and Centiskorch anyway). Take it or leave it.
Octazooka is a move that exists
Correction: Hisuian goodra actually doesnt get iron defense, but instead gets acid armor as an evolution move from sligoo, which has max 32pp instead of shelter or iron defemse's 16
I cant believe you didnt mention thunder cage, but i wouldnt blame you if you just forgot it exists because really who remembers that regieleki has a signature move
6:49 wtf
It's absolutely terrible in comp, but Pay Day is top tier in Emerald Rogue. That's a Roguelike hack where money is in short supply, and fainted mons get dropped from your team, taking any TMs, tutor moves, and held items with them. Being able to rebuild can be the difference between wiping to a Gym Leader or not, and Pay Day lets you farm a meaningful chunk of extra money without risking your team against trainers. And if you do beat some trainers, you'll be ballin out of control and can slam Mints on everything while stockpiling important TMs (like Protect for your 4x weaknesses).
I'd legitimately rather start my run with a Meowth holding an Amulet Coin than with the likes of Mega Mewtwo, because the extra money from Pay Day is just that good for your whole team on your whole run.
Me when chilly reception and syrup bomb aren’t even mentioned
unpopular opinion: Dark Void can have it's accuracy buffed back up to 80 because it's currently hard coded to fail unless Darkrai uses it and Mythicals are never VGC legal. Heck, Smeargal can't even Sketch it anymore as of Gen 9.
As for other moves:
- if Kinesis lowered Accuracy by 2 stages, that 80 accuracy would be justified
- Barrage is trash. Needs to be buffed and made grass-type like you said.
- Clamp got nerfed due to the changes to trapping moves that were implemented in Gen 2 onwards. In Gen 1, running it on Cloyster was not bad since Cloyster couldn't learn any other trapping moves, and trapping moves were busted in gen 1. I think it's fine as tbh, but when you have the perfect accuracy trapping move of infestation which was a TM, all other trapping moves kind of fail in comparison
- Powder is trash. not worth using
- I like Tar Shot, but it is pretty niche and not very useful. I think the change you made makes sense
- False Surrender got done dirty. lol
- Shelter is disgusting in Legends Arceus, but in the mainline games it got done dirty
- Triple Dive should of got the Triple Kick treatment were it gets stronger on each consecutive hit
- Filet Away is just Belly Drum at Home
Random note, i wish that shelter was a protect variant
Darkrai payed for smeargles sins
It also gets acid armour
As a Raichu boi, volt tackle is one of those moves that makes me scratch my head. It's an AWESOME move. Except, it has recoil. That would normally be fine, but for pokemon as squishy as the Raichu line, it's not really a good choice unless you have some kind of healing setup. I know that moves with a power of >110 must have drawbacks, but like. I feel that decreased accuracy and crash damage would be a better fit for it.
Who's up Smelling they Salts rn
(no one because the move is garbage, Hariyama why?)
I guess you would never use smelling salts on hariyama but you nailed the rest
Does sparkling Aria have VGC use? I figured it was just worse than anything else.
Well, it's Surf but can hit through subs, can trigger Throat Spray but can be blocked by Soundproof and heal burns.
Y’all remember magic powder?
A couple of reworks that might help:
1. Make shelter recover hp or increse the Evasiveness.
2. Make filet away give a +3 or +6 to the stats. Not needed the +12 that belly drum gives because that is too broken
Never cook again
@@volzuloof dw I would never stop >:)
Wicked blow
Kinesis should be a freeze dry type move, dealing super effective damage to steel types. Alakazam can bend spoons so it makes sense that he’d be able to bend steel with this move.
Honestly they should give tar shot to muk, it fits thematically and might have a chance to see some use.