Not quite the oxymoron it sounds like. The four kinds of Underground station: • The Four Kinds of Unde... Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/jagohazzard Patreon: / jagohazzard
Romford to Upminster *is* a quaint little branch line (very good for arty shots of bin bags blowing gently in the breeze). It's particularly quirky in that it's not connected to any other line at Upminster, its track is isolated from all the others
While your attempt at making sense of London's trains is admirable it remains a lost cause. The main thing is that you've instilled a nerdy interest in the convoluted history of this remarkable network. Kudos to you Jago.
Wiki tells me Ealing Broadway IS an Underground station (i.e. managed by TfL) but Network Rail own some bits of it and it was originally built by the GWR, the proper one. Engineering works have led to me catching South Wales main line trains here on occasion.
I don't think I can put the link here, but go to the National Rail website, then visit the page stations/ealing-broadway/, you will see Station Information Station managed by: Elizabeth line
As far as I understand it, it is not managed by London Underground , but MTR Elizabeth line on behalf of Transport for London. Until the Elizabeth Line took over most of the GWR local services, it was run by GWR.
Ealing Broadway is two stations in one - LUL own and manage the train district line and centeral line platforms and train shed roof. Network rail own the platforms on ELR MLN1 and these are managed by MTR cross rail. I'm a network rail asset manager who used to have Ealing in my asset base
Actually, I quite like the fact you try and make sense of it all. Thats why your videos are fascinating. Where it came from to where its going (or might be). Good work, Jago.
Thanks Jago - really interesting how the 'N/A' category affects the District Line more than any other - and thanks for explaining the background to this. Barking of course is also a Hammersmith and city Line terminus too.
I guess with Whitechapel, the East London Railway was taken over by the Metropolitan Railway, which was taken over by London Transport. Then when they moved the East London Line from "Underground" to "Overground," the station remained "Underground". Even though the "Underground" bit is overground, and the "Overground" bit is underground 🤯🤯
@@Pesmog Paddington is another other station where "overground" platforms are at a lower level than "underground platforms". Hammersmith & Circle vs Elizabeth line Line, and I think the District platforms, while below street level, are at a higher level than the Liz Line. There are plently of other places where Underground tracks cross above Overground and National Rail tracks. Moorgate, where the Northern City Line passes below the Metropolitan etc lines is another but unlike Paddington, everything is underground there. I'm not sure about other central core Liz Line stations. Everything is underground, but maybe the Liz Line is more underground than the actual underground lines.
In my quizmaster days I'd thought of using 'Where in London is the underground overground, and the overground underground' as a tie breaker question. I never had to use it but still believe that Whitechapel is the only correct answer.
This is awesome. Of course we also have the reverse, such as Harrow and Wealdstone, or Greenford, or Moorgate, where you have "Mainline" services, but the Tube is in charge.
It's so complex. Somewhere like Ealing Broadway actually is run by Elizabeth Line, but there may well be LUL staff looking after the LUL bits. Walthanstow Central is similar, in that the above ground station is staffed by and thus presumably run by Overground, but everything below ground, including the bus station exit is LUL.
The stations between Queens Park and Kenton, except for Willesden Jcn, were from the start of Overground operating, actually staffed (and thus I guess owned) by Overground, but by some weird twist they all wore LUL uniform. I know this caused upset by being paid less than real LUL staff, so this may well have changed since. Certainly a recent visit to Wembley Central had staff in Overground uniforms. However at Stonebridge Park, and I think Queens Park, LUL employs the platform staff who tip out terminating trains. Similarly Farringdon is run by LUL, and their control includes the Thameslink and Elizabeth Line platforms, but both those companies also have emoyees there. Same at Moorgate.
I remember watching one of Geoff Marshall's videos on Kensington (Olympia), in which he mentioned that - due to the extremely infrequent trains serving it - the station was a pain in the backside when he used to do his record attempts for the fastest time stopping at every station on the Underground. So _(pushes glasses up nose)_ I suppose _technically,_ since Kensington (Olympia) isn't an actual Underground station, he could've saved himself a lot of hassle and given it a miss altogether...?
@@katrinabryce Because of the way in which the Tube Challenge rules are worded (the time stops when you SET FOOT ON THE PLATFORM of the last station), it has been mooted that you should be able to finish by arriving at the last station on foot and stepping on the platform. The general consensus, however, is that you must arrive by train also at the last station, despite the aforementioned wording.
I wonder if Whitechapel is because the East London Line was part of the Underground at one point. The station had to be internally managed as there was no-one else involved. However I’m more concerned about Wimbledon. As it’s not Underground (and the district line is on the surface there) and there is no Overground then all it has is Wombling Free!
I'm surprised that Mr.Hazzard doesn't think it's run by Tramlink given his propensity to get on a tram believing it's going to a railway station. Wait a minute ,this tram does !!
It’s midnight, about to go to sleep and Jago drops another great video. Greetings from Monday in NZ. And yes, daylight savings started last weekend here.
New Cross and New Cross Gate used to be National Rail stations with Underground services also, until the Overground took over the East London Line and extended it northwards and southwards. All the Kensington Olympia - Earl's Court services extend to and from High Street Kensington, they have run to Edgware Road in the past.
Memories of using Upminster Station for a train that used a single platform to get to Aveley/Ockendon when I was a sponsored student at Ford's many years ago, although being a bus nut I often preferred to get the 370 from Romford to Grays which took a little longer. Also a bad memory of the effects of food poisoning on Upminster platform, but I won't go in into details Arghh!!
I have a rather unfortunate memory of Upminster station, a disgustingly smelly ladies facility, where I had to spray the place with my own emergency air freshener and use my own emergency supply of toilet paper and soap, from my backpack. Disgusting. 🤢
It had been a London Country Service, part of the National Bus Company until privatisation around 1987, when I knew it in 1988 - 1990 its was operated as part of the London Country North East operation as far as I can recall. It used to pass the Romford YMCA at Roneo Corner which is where I was based at the time. If using the train, I'd get the 248 to Upminster Station and this had been London Buses, then was taken over by FrontRunner (part of East Midlands after deregulation).
I seem to remember that, when I was a kid, and I travelled from Bethnal Green to visit my nan in Dagenham, that District Line trains east of Bow Road all had the old British Rail-type station name logos, not the roundel. They hadn't yet closed off the main line platforms although nothing ever stopped there! Obviously they are now owned by the Underground, but I guess they were amongst the last to transfer.
Bromley by Bow and further out - the train and tube still run alongside each other. Trains coming from Limehouse where the tube came from Bow Road. The trains don't stop at as many stations though - I think it's just West Ham, Barking, Upminster. Does beg the question of why West Ham wasn't included in the list with Whitechapel and Highbury & Islington?
@@michaelleiper It's because at West Ham, main line trains only began to stop there in relatively recent times. So I guess it became owned by the Underground before that happened.
The same was true of the District line between East Putney and Wimbledon, which were only transferred to LU when BR was privatised in ?1992. And I have a vague memory of Royal Oak station on the H&C having Western Region brown signs in the 1960s, but I may be mistaken about that.
An aunt of mine had a fantasy of a house in the country which she would call Tether's End. Your closing remarks give me another such: Fool's Errand, which would of course have a station, originally a halt for visitors to weekends in the country, but which would become much more frequently used when the house was taken into public ownership and became the national centre for Underwater Hockey (that is a real thing). It would be on a branch line: "All change here for Fool's Errand." Sorry, I must have been overimpressed by the Emett railway at the Festival of Britain.
The 'little Romford to Upminster line' seems entirely appropriate. I use it quite frequently to visit my dentist and it's a 'push-me-pull-you' service with only one stop in-between, but I find it very useful and the rolling-stock has recently been replaced and the service is far more reliable; I once made the alternative journey by bus and I never wish to repeat it.
Hi jago was wondering if you would ever consider doing a vid on the east Greenwich gas works. As they did have a small railway here It’s been a great film set for many movies also 👍🏻
Whitechapel - at some points in it's history - only had underground trains - so presumably that forced a handover to London Transport when it stopped being a railway station and became an underground station only. Even though what is now the overground is using the lines that were originally railway lines, not underground lines. That can't be said of either Barking or Upminster. Although it does beg the question of why Highbury & Islington changed. Maybe it's because London Underground built the current station (as part of the Victoria line) and the station that used to serve the North London Line platforms was closed..
To counterpoint this video, you will have to go through the stations run by TfL but not in London. Like, eg, Burnham in Buckinghamshire. It has a roundel; The staff wears TfL uniforms; The lady in the Ether says "Wellcome to TfL", and is served only by Elizabeth Line trains.
Looking at realtimetrains for tomorrow there seems to be one GWR service that stops at Burnham. It's a train from Didcot parkway to London Paddington and calls at Burnham at 00:41.
The thing with West Ham Station I remember the platforms on the C2C line being built in the 1990s. So ordinally it was an underground station and the extra platforms were added since more lines were being added to this station.
Thank you for these videos, when some days are feeling a bit crazy, the videos really help me become a bit more grounded. I cannot thank you enough for this.
What, though, about the Hammersmith & City platforms at Paddington? They're right next to the main line platforms and are really an integral part of it
They used to be integral when platforms 15 and 16 were also mainline platforms for suburban GWR services, but no they're two entirely separate stations now.
When I read the title, I expected it to be a video about stations physically underground, but not on the London underground. Could be an interesting idea for a future video!
Think that would only apply to LHR T5 , but the other oddities would include who manages the Northern City Line platforms at Moorgate , Old Street and Highbury and Islington, and differently Finsbury Park ( but that is now above ground ) so Essex Road and Drayton Road are underground but non TFL, there is BANK , but that is now London Underground and Waterloo , on the Waterloo and City Line. Other if not underground at least built over stations are on Thameslink - With City Thameslink and St Pancras being the two that come to mind + The Elizabeth Line stations , many are separate save for pedestrian connecting tunnels at the locations they serve ( Tottenham Court Road , Bond Street and Farringdon for example have separate entrances
Thanks - and love the map at 6:33 It makes it look like that the Chiltern Line/Great Central had a station at Loudoun Road in the top right hand corner - the Chiltern Line viaduct that pops out of the tunnel fascinates me a little too much
6:38 map. That Old Oak place looks interesting, potentially lots of connections west east north and south, might even be useful for a regional high speed railway avoiding a slog into Zone 1 with good connectiond to Heathrow achievable
I have thought that it might be cool for Upminster station to have a statue of the late, great Ian Dury there - because of one of his album titles, he has sometimes been referred to as 'Lord Upminster'.
He has this brilliant editing convention of allowing the whole train to leave/arrive at the station before he cuts to another shot. I think he understands his viewership very well.
@@1258-Eckhart Aah right, yes. It makes all the difference, subtle but essential to being easy on the eye rather than a bombardment of silly visual quips.
Hi. Another great video. I was doing some research recently and found in Hampstead News (10 May 1894), that the Charing Cross, Euston & Hampstead Railway Company intended to build a station ‘opposite the Vestry Hall’ on Haverstock Hill. My grandmother's uncle ran a veterinary surgery exactly on this spot at the turn of the century and had to move premises I expect due to this. However I am guessing because of the existing subsurface tunnel that ran across here (taking the main line into Euston), an alternative site a hundred yards further south was chosen for the new deep-level Tube station, which opened in 1907 as Belsize Park. So maybe there are other locations chosen but then abandonded for tube stations? It would be fascinating to know!?
As fast as as I know the District never ran to Southend,at least not regularly, but up to 1940 the LTSR, then the Midland, then the LMS ran a through service using special stock from Southend, over District tracks, to Ealing. After electrification one of the jobs of the District electric locos was to haul this train over the District railway. Like other through services the war killed it.
Always interesting content... I was surprised that West Hampstead wasn't in the list as it's a bit of a weirdo interchange between Thameslink, overground and underground.
The Romford-Upminster line would have been shortened to Rominster line as it’s operated by London Overground and previously was operated by Greater Anglia & in the past Network Southeast. But yes you are right about Upminster and Barking and c2c manages those stations. And Willesden Junction is managed by London Overground which has low level and high level platforms and Bakerloo Line also serves the low level platform.
There's also the shared National Rail / Metropolitan line between Harrow on the Hill & Amersham but the stations are managed by London Underground. I know that not all Chiltern trains have the tripcocks needed for running over the London Underground lines. I take it the London Overground trains can run on either 3 or 4 rail lines.
That was truly an awesome video JH . We can’t gave too much Nerdness. . Scientists area nerds , so let’s call it The Science Of Th Underground.. I was interested that Heathrow Terminal 5 is not technically a railway station. I’ll definitely keep referring back to this video as i go on my travels .
The definition of what is and what is not a railway station is an arbitrary choice made by someone somewhere (presumably TfL), therefore the notion that there is a "technical" i.e precise definition is probably incorrect. Make up your own definition and use it as you please.
There's also a 6th category, virtual stations. Like Pentonville Station (between Kings X and Angel islington). You DO NOT want to get pff at these. The occasional real train gets sucked into these occasionally, never to return to our world, like at 10.33 pm on 30 October 1923 when a train left Kings X and never arrived at Angel. They made up a press story about some derailment and fire, to cover the disappearance of the 5 passengers and driver and compensated the families wel, with a gagging clause. Even now, late October, ,maintenance crews won;t do that bit of line as you feel a sudden rush of extremely chilly air and hear a train coming, but there IS no train.....
I think it's a good measure of the depth of my Jago-Hazzard-fanboy status, that I felt a frisson of pride at having been to one of these stations despite being a Yankee expat in Cambodia who has only ever been to London once for about four days.
The *really* nerdy way to have done this video would be to produce a table showing things like ownership, management, lines served etc for each station where it is not straightforward. That would allow us to assess more easily whether the categories for the stations have been well chosen.
Next you need to do the history of the Wimbledon to Putney line which can be used by British Rail trains and I recall Geoff Marshall getting a stupidly early train to ride on it. I think it's still signalled by Network Rail but owned by TfL, but I could be wrong as it's complicated too. Which is your sort of thing!
Jago, one little note. You said that Olympia is only served by a shuttle from Earls Court, but the other day I caught a train to Olympia at Gloucester Road, It had originated at Tower Hill.
Probably one of the early evening trains that run in service to Olympia before going empty into Lillie Bridge depot (although there was, may still be, a couple of trains that did an extra trip to High St Ken and back first, presunably to keep route knowledge up to date. There are a few much later trains to Olympia, but these run out of service to avoid the driver having arguments kicking any errant passengers off the train with no assistance. Sometimes enginerring work can result in Olympia getting through trains to elsrwhere. One of the best was a day where all Olympia trains were running through to Wimbledon and vice versa, via the Circle line.
I believe they do occasionally but they are normally "Ghost trains" i.e. they are not scheduled to but they sometimes end up or start there for strange reasons. Mr Marshall would know more than I
Interesting video. I wonder why Stratford is not on the list?! LNER station, Central Line pushed in, taking over LNER routes. But I always enjoy your videos.
@@Firitesen It's another of these curious cases where it is owned by Network Rail but managed by TfL. But is it definitely the Underground part that manages it?
An idea for a future video is explaining why the Metropolitan Line north of Harrow used to be joint owned by the Underground and a main line railway company but isn't anymore.
From a nerd ..yeah for nerdiness! 😁 Kensington Olympia, may yet get more trains, on all its lines, because the Exhibition Hall is being turned into a go to tourist destination, with the demise of Earl's Court Exhibition Hall. Interesting historical fact, the freightliner container depot at Willesden Junction is built on the site of the steam engine depot. Time to brag....I saw a train with two BR type 40 diesel engines, one in two tone green and one in classic BR greeny blue, with five Pullman coaches, consisting of a guard's van and buffet car, plus three Brighton Belle coaches, travelling through Wembley Central, last Thursday, heading for a heritage event. Unfortunately they may have or not have been later involved, in the slow speed prang with the Flying Scotsman, that occurred at that event.
Love your videos, I'm doing a paper on Charles Yerkes and have trouble finding sources. Would you happen to have any suggestions on where to look? (sorry for the bad English.)
As live in West Midlands,enjoyed your insight of London network,I had visiting London ,use Tube getting round,,when in London,,plus ferry to Greenwich. ,which one of my favourite area,eg museum Cutty Park ship,park, please tell more videos, l like about , read and watching about history looking forward next video😂
![Stroads are Ugly, Expensive, and Dangerous (and they're everywhere) [ST05]](/img/n.gif)
Jago really knows the audience by cranking up the nerd lever.
Who are you calling a nerd (as I adjust my cagoule and open a thermos to drink some Earl Grey tea on Sunday afternoon) 😂🤣😂
@@bobcosmichaven't had my Earl Grey yet!
@@hairyairey C’mon get with the program and get your anorak on ! 😂🤣😂👊🏽
That's because he is also a nerd as are we all.
@@bobcosmic and repair my NHS spectacles with a sticking plaster.
Most people wouldn’t understand this video but for transport enthusiasts it is pure gold!
0:50 "Not gonna lie, we're gonna get pretty nerdy 'round here, even by the standards of this channel."
YESSSSSSSSSS!!!
Your sense of humour somehow improves with every video you make. Easily one of my favourite TH-cam channels
Romford to Upminster *is* a quaint little branch line (very good for arty shots of bin bags blowing gently in the breeze). It's particularly quirky in that it's not connected to any other line at Upminster, its track is isolated from all the others
Back in the steam days there used to be through trains to Grays - or so the legend goes :)
While your attempt at making sense of London's trains is admirable it remains a lost cause. The main thing is that you've instilled a nerdy interest in the convoluted history of this remarkable network. Kudos to you Jago.
Wiki tells me Ealing Broadway IS an Underground station (i.e. managed by TfL) but Network Rail own some bits of it and it was originally built by the GWR, the proper one. Engineering works have led to me catching South Wales main line trains here on occasion.
It is owned by Network Rail, managed by the Elizabeth Line (TfL) since they took over the majority of rail services from Great Western.
I don't think I can put the link here, but go to the National Rail website, then visit the page stations/ealing-broadway/, you will see
Station Information
Station managed by: Elizabeth line
As far as I understand it, it is not managed by London Underground , but MTR Elizabeth line on behalf of Transport for London. Until the Elizabeth Line took over most of the GWR local services, it was run by GWR.
@@alanmatthews4050 I tried to point to a national rail link that confirms what you say, but it looks like the external link censor deleted it.
Ealing Broadway is two stations in one - LUL own and manage the train district line and centeral line platforms and train shed roof. Network rail own the platforms on ELR MLN1 and these are managed by MTR cross rail. I'm a network rail asset manager who used to have Ealing in my asset base
Actually, I quite like the fact you try and make sense of it all. Thats why your videos are fascinating. Where it came from to where its going (or might be). Good work, Jago.
Thanks Jago - really interesting how the 'N/A' category affects the District Line more than any other - and thanks for explaining the background to this. Barking of course is also a Hammersmith and city Line terminus too.
I guess with Whitechapel, the East London Railway was taken over by the Metropolitan Railway, which was taken over by London Transport.
Then when they moved the East London Line from "Underground" to "Overground," the station remained "Underground".
Even though the "Underground" bit is overground, and the "Overground" bit is underground 🤯🤯
That last sentence could could be a primer for another video 👍 I wonder if there are any others like this?
@@Pesmog Paddington is another other station where "overground" platforms are at a lower level than "underground platforms". Hammersmith & Circle vs Elizabeth line Line, and I think the District platforms, while below street level, are at a higher level than the Liz Line. There are plently of other places where Underground tracks cross above Overground and National Rail tracks.
Moorgate, where the Northern City Line passes below the Metropolitan etc lines is another but unlike Paddington, everything is underground there.
I'm not sure about other central core Liz Line stations. Everything is underground, but maybe the Liz Line is more underground than the actual underground lines.
The Met only leased the ELR, in 1925 the Southern railway bought the freehold, subject to 1884 lease, so the signs were different.
One sign on a District Line platform at that station was a sign pointing down stairs, to the 'overground' . . . . I always smiled at it . . .
In my quizmaster days I'd thought of using 'Where in London is the underground overground, and the overground underground' as a tie breaker question. I never had to use it but still believe that Whitechapel is the only correct answer.
This is awesome.
Of course we also have the reverse, such as Harrow and Wealdstone, or Greenford, or Moorgate, where you have "Mainline" services, but the Tube is in charge.
Also the whole Metropolitan line section North of Croxley South Curve, and the Bakerloo North of Queens Park.
It's so complex. Somewhere like Ealing Broadway actually is run by Elizabeth Line, but there may well be LUL staff looking after the LUL bits. Walthanstow Central is similar, in that the above ground station is staffed by and thus presumably run by Overground, but everything below ground, including the bus station exit is LUL.
The stations between Queens Park and Kenton, except for Willesden Jcn, were from the start of Overground operating, actually staffed (and thus I guess owned) by Overground, but by some weird twist they all wore LUL uniform. I know this caused upset by being paid less than real LUL staff, so this may well have changed since. Certainly a recent visit to Wembley Central had staff in Overground uniforms. However at Stonebridge Park, and I think Queens Park, LUL employs the platform staff who tip out terminating trains. Similarly Farringdon is run by LUL, and their control includes the Thameslink and Elizabeth Line platforms, but both those companies also have emoyees there. Same at Moorgate.
I remember watching one of Geoff Marshall's videos on Kensington (Olympia), in which he mentioned that - due to the extremely infrequent trains serving it - the station was a pain in the backside when he used to do his record attempts for the fastest time stopping at every station on the Underground.
So _(pushes glasses up nose)_ I suppose _technically,_ since Kensington (Olympia) isn't an actual Underground station, he could've saved himself a lot of hassle and given it a miss altogether...?
No, because the Tube Challenge is every station served by an underground train.
@@katrinabrycedoes it have to end in Mornington Crescent?
I actually think the best way to do the Tube Challenge is to start at Kensington Olympia and use more bus services at the extremities
@@katrinabryce Because of the way in which the Tube Challenge rules are worded (the time stops when you SET FOOT ON THE PLATFORM of the last station), it has been mooted that you should be able to finish by arriving at the last station on foot and stepping on the platform. The general consensus, however, is that you must arrive by train also at the last station, despite the aforementioned wording.
@@hairyairey It is sort of easier now there is a regular Overground Service , that connects both West Brompton , and Willesden Junction
if it's got a roundel, it's an underground station - fight me.
Bus stops?
Shenfield and Twyford are now Underground stations, as well as New Addington
@@pangolin83 New Addington should be renamed ‘Ground Zero’ and be used as a nuclear weapon test site.
It would be an improvement…
including the one in Berlin?
If it is a red and blue roundel, not an orange or purple one.
I wonder if Whitechapel is because the East London Line was part of the Underground at one point. The station had to be internally managed as there was no-one else involved.
However I’m more concerned about Wimbledon. As it’s not Underground (and the district line is on the surface there) and there is no Overground then all it has is Wombling Free!
I'm surprised that Mr.Hazzard doesn't think it's run by Tramlink given his propensity to get on a tram believing it's going to a railway station. Wait a minute ,this tram does !!
It’s midnight, about to go to sleep and Jago drops another great video. Greetings from Monday in NZ. And yes, daylight savings started last weekend here.
New Cross and New Cross Gate used to be National Rail stations with Underground services also, until the Overground took over the East London Line and extended it northwards and southwards. All the Kensington Olympia - Earl's Court services extend to and from High Street Kensington, they have run to Edgware Road in the past.
Memories of using Upminster Station for a train that used a single platform to get to Aveley/Ockendon when I was a sponsored student at Ford's many years ago, although being a bus nut I often preferred to get the 370 from Romford to Grays which took a little longer. Also a bad memory of the effects of food poisoning on Upminster platform, but I won't go in into details Arghh!!
I have a rather unfortunate memory of Upminster station, a disgustingly smelly ladies facility, where I had to spray the place with my own emergency air freshener and use my own emergency supply of toilet paper and soap, from my backpack. Disgusting. 🤢
Was the 370 a london country or a Eastern National Service then (didnt it become Harris of Grays on the early TFL tendering ?
It had been a London Country Service, part of the National Bus Company until privatisation around 1987, when I knew it in 1988 - 1990 its was operated as part of the London Country North East operation as far as I can recall. It used to pass the Romford YMCA at Roneo Corner which is where I was based at the time. If using the train, I'd get the 248 to Upminster Station and this had been London Buses, then was taken over by FrontRunner (part of East Midlands after deregulation).
are you really telling me that there used to be a train from Upminster to South Ockendon? God that would save so much time..
Yes Ockendon station is on the branch from Upminster to Grays. Used it back in 1988 so I'm guessing it still runs?
Barking is also the eastern terminus of the Hammersmith and City Line
I seem to remember that, when I was a kid, and I travelled from Bethnal Green to visit my nan in Dagenham, that District Line trains east of Bow Road all had the old British Rail-type station name logos, not the roundel. They hadn't yet closed off the main line platforms although nothing ever stopped there! Obviously they are now owned by the Underground, but I guess they were amongst the last to transfer.
Bromley by Bow and further out - the train and tube still run alongside each other. Trains coming from Limehouse where the tube came from Bow Road.
The trains don't stop at as many stations though - I think it's just West Ham, Barking, Upminster.
Does beg the question of why West Ham wasn't included in the list with Whitechapel and Highbury & Islington?
@@michaelleiper It's because at West Ham, main line trains only began to stop there in relatively recent times. So I guess it became owned by the Underground before that happened.
The same was true of the District line between East Putney and Wimbledon, which were only transferred to LU when BR was privatised in ?1992. And I have a vague memory of Royal Oak station on the H&C having Western Region brown signs in the 1960s, but I may be mistaken about that.
An aunt of mine had a fantasy of a house in the country which she would call Tether's End. Your closing remarks give me another such: Fool's Errand, which would of course have a station, originally a halt for visitors to weekends in the country, but which would become much more frequently used when the house was taken into public ownership and became the national centre for Underwater Hockey (that is a real thing). It would be on a branch line: "All change here for Fool's Errand." Sorry, I must have been overimpressed by the Emett railway at the Festival of Britain.
The 'little Romford to Upminster line' seems entirely appropriate. I use it quite frequently to visit my dentist and it's a 'push-me-pull-you' service with only one stop in-between, but I find it very useful and the rolling-stock has recently been replaced and the service is far more reliable; I once made the alternative journey by bus and I never wish to repeat it.
Hi jago was wondering if you would ever consider doing a vid on the east Greenwich gas works. As they did have a small railway here It’s been a great film set for many movies also 👍🏻
Whitechapel - at some points in it's history - only had underground trains - so presumably that forced a handover to London Transport when it stopped being a railway station and became an underground station only. Even though what is now the overground is using the lines that were originally railway lines, not underground lines.
That can't be said of either Barking or Upminster. Although it does beg the question of why Highbury & Islington changed. Maybe it's because London Underground built the current station (as part of the Victoria line) and the station that used to serve the North London Line platforms was closed..
To counterpoint this video, you will have to go through the stations run by TfL but not in London. Like, eg, Burnham in Buckinghamshire. It has a roundel; The staff wears TfL uniforms; The lady in the Ether says "Wellcome to TfL", and is served only by Elizabeth Line trains.
Looking at realtimetrains for tomorrow there seems to be one GWR service that stops at Burnham. It's a train from Didcot parkway to London Paddington and calls at Burnham at 00:41.
The thing with West Ham Station I remember the platforms on the C2C line being built in the 1990s. So ordinally it was an underground station and the extra platforms were added since more lines were being added to this station.
Thank you for these videos, when some days are feeling a bit crazy, the videos really help me become a bit more grounded. I cannot thank you enough for this.
What, though, about the Hammersmith & City platforms at Paddington? They're right next to the main line platforms and are really an integral part of it
They used to be integral when platforms 15 and 16 were also mainline platforms for suburban GWR services, but no they're two entirely separate stations now.
Love these video's. I used to live in London and used the tube a lot. Many memories of trip's and commutes come back. Thank you.
When I read the title, I expected it to be a video about stations physically underground, but not on the London underground. Could be an interesting idea for a future video!
Think that would only apply to LHR T5 , but the other oddities would include who manages the Northern City Line platforms at Moorgate , Old Street and Highbury and Islington, and differently Finsbury Park ( but that is now above ground ) so Essex Road and Drayton Road are underground but non TFL, there is BANK , but that is now London Underground and Waterloo , on the Waterloo and City Line. Other if not underground at least built over stations are on Thameslink - With City Thameslink and St Pancras being the two that come to mind + The Elizabeth Line stations , many are separate save for pedestrian connecting tunnels at the locations they serve ( Tottenham Court Road , Bond Street and Farringdon for example have separate entrances
Great nerdy content again Jago!
Thanks - and love the map at 6:33
It makes it look like that the Chiltern Line/Great Central had a station at Loudoun Road in the top right hand corner - the Chiltern Line viaduct that pops out of the tunnel fascinates me a little too much
Great video Jago. Very interesting to watch.
6:38 map. That Old Oak place looks interesting, potentially lots of connections west east north and south, might even be useful for a regional high speed railway avoiding a slog into Zone 1 with good connectiond to Heathrow achievable
Hi Jago, can you do a video on a potential Heathrow Southern Access route that is being proposed? Thanks!
As usual, Jago, interesting, informative, a great video compilation of stations and trains and essential viewing for all us nerds !!!🚂
I have thought that it might be cool for Upminster station to have a statue of the late, great Ian Dury there - because of one of his album titles, he has sometimes been referred to as 'Lord Upminster'.
I thought Ian was the ticket man at Fulham Broadway station.
Great info as always. Fascinating stuff. Have you any really old footage of any of the underground stations ?
This is easily a nerd out moment for me. Thanks for posting!
Great work on the channel. I love your videos. Keep it up, please.
Great facts and information Jago. Thank you
I particularly enjoyed this one. Thank you, as ever
I do like the pauses you leave so we can enjoy a shot just a bit longer than some other editors might allow.
He has this brilliant editing convention of allowing the whole train to leave/arrive at the station before he cuts to another shot. I think he understands his viewership very well.
@@1258-Eckhart Aah right, yes. It makes all the difference, subtle but essential to being easy on the eye rather than a bombardment of silly visual quips.
When you think Jago Hazzard has exhausted all avenues BANG ZOOM he drops another scorcher!
Excellent stuff 😊
Great video Jago
Thank you for explaining why I failed to photograph a roundel at all of the tube stations, when I visited them earlier in the year.
Hi Jago from Spain. Thanks for another interesting tale from the tube and others.
This is the sort of thing I didn’t know I needed to know but now I did I can’t imagine not knowing it
Great video as always. Thank you.
Fascinating, as always
I was thinking more of Stratford station.
Fantastic video sir!
Blooming 'eck Jago... Underground? Overground? Why do I now have a song stuck in my head? 😂
Hi. Another great video. I was doing some research recently and found in Hampstead News (10 May 1894), that the Charing Cross, Euston & Hampstead Railway Company intended to build a station ‘opposite the Vestry Hall’ on Haverstock Hill. My grandmother's uncle ran a veterinary surgery exactly on this spot at the turn of the century and had to move premises I expect due to this. However I am guessing because of the existing subsurface tunnel that ran across here (taking the main line into Euston), an alternative site a hundred yards further south was chosen for the new deep-level Tube station, which opened in 1907 as Belsize Park. So maybe there are other locations chosen but then abandonded for tube stations? It would be fascinating to know!?
I thought I understood the Underground, but now I don't. Well done, Jago.
Did I hear Ealing Broadway mentioned? 🤔
Nope, thought not.
I visited London earlier this year. Was amazed to see how well designed the tube syestem was to keep you moving. Try getting to Manchester though!
Yep - should have been subtitled 'Strictly For My Nerds'! I suspect that's how most of us Hazzardites like it, though.
Oh nice! A set of underground stations that match my dating history!
Not applicable. 😞
It annoys me that the District used to go to Southend and doesn't any more. Wonderful video as always. ❤
That's like the Bakerloo Line, which used to go to Watford Junction.
As fast as as I know the District never ran to Southend,at least not regularly, but up to 1940 the LTSR, then the Midland, then the LMS ran a through service using special stock from Southend, over District tracks, to Ealing. After electrification one of the jobs of the District electric locos was to haul this train over the District railway. Like other through services the war killed it.
A great video and channel , wouldn't be surprised to find it's owned by Network Rail but run by Jago 😂😂
Always informative and humorous
Always interesting content... I was surprised that West Hampstead wasn't in the list as it's a bit of a weirdo interchange between Thameslink, overground and underground.
Now this has got me thing of overground stations that aren’t overground stations: Basically the stretch from Shoreditch - Surrey Quays
I’m enjoying this busy upload schedule lately
Careful getting nurdie. We’ll start calling you Geoff Marshall if you do
Fascinating 🤨 video as always, Sir Jago Hazzard. Thoroughly enjoyed this NON-COMPLIANT *Tale From Da Tube.*
God I don't miss hearing the train screeching by that bowed platform at Richmond...
Fun fact: in Athens there are fewer than ten passenger railway lines (open)
I have informed TH-cam with my like 😀 - the story of the labyrinthine ownership of the railways in London could probably be a thesis or two!
Very informative. Worth re-watching.
According to the station supervisor at Barking, C2C means "Change to a Car".
The Romford-Upminster line would have been shortened to Rominster line as it’s operated by London Overground and previously was operated by Greater Anglia & in the past Network Southeast.
But yes you are right about Upminster and Barking and c2c manages those stations. And Willesden Junction is managed by London Overground which has low level and high level platforms and Bakerloo Line also serves the low level platform.
There's also the shared National Rail / Metropolitan line between Harrow on the Hill & Amersham but the stations are managed by London Underground. I know that not all Chiltern trains have the tripcocks needed for running over the London Underground lines. I take it the London Overground trains can run on either 3 or 4 rail lines.
That should be Jago's Official Motto: "it is a fools errand to try to make sense of London's rail network". Quick, fetch my vexillologist!
That was truly an awesome video JH . We can’t gave too much Nerdness. . Scientists area nerds , so let’s call it The Science Of Th Underground.. I was interested that Heathrow Terminal 5 is not technically a railway station. I’ll definitely keep referring back to this video as i go on my travels
.
The definition of what is and what is not a railway station is an arbitrary choice made by someone somewhere (presumably TfL), therefore the notion that there is a "technical" i.e precise definition is probably incorrect. Make up your own definition and use it as you please.
There's also a 6th category, virtual stations. Like Pentonville Station (between Kings X and Angel islington). You DO NOT want to get pff at these. The occasional real train gets sucked into these occasionally, never to return to our world, like at 10.33 pm on 30 October 1923 when a train left Kings X and never arrived at Angel. They made up a press story about some derailment and fire, to cover the disappearance of the 5 passengers and driver and compensated the families wel, with a gagging clause. Even now, late October, ,maintenance crews won;t do that bit of line as you feel a sudden rush of extremely chilly air and hear a train coming, but there IS no train.....
I think it's a good measure of the depth of my Jago-Hazzard-fanboy status, that I felt a frisson of pride at having been to one of these stations despite being a Yankee expat in Cambodia who has only ever been to London once for about four days.
Wimbeldon and Upminster, you spoil us.
Very interesting, as usual, Jago, thanks. So where does Greenford fit into this?
I'm laughing at the people running at 1:42, perfectly cut!
The *really* nerdy way to have done this video would be to produce a table showing things like ownership, management, lines served etc for each station where it is not straightforward. That would allow us to assess more easily whether the categories for the stations have been well chosen.
"A fool's errand" that has a lot of support from us Jago fans.
I loved using the UpRom line easy 8 min journey between the stations pity it was only bihourly. No Sunday Service but quickerthanthe bloody bus routes
Next you need to do the history of the Wimbledon to Putney line which can be used by British Rail trains and I recall Geoff Marshall getting a stupidly early train to ride on it. I think it's still signalled by Network Rail but owned by TfL, but I could be wrong as it's complicated too. Which is your sort of thing!
Jago, one little note. You said that Olympia is only served by a shuttle from Earls Court, but the other day I caught a train to Olympia at Gloucester Road, It had originated at Tower Hill.
Probably one of the early evening trains that run in service to Olympia before going empty into Lillie Bridge depot (although there was, may still be, a couple of trains that did an extra trip to High St Ken and back first, presunably to keep route knowledge up to date. There are a few much later trains to Olympia, but these run out of service to avoid the driver having arguments kicking any errant passengers off the train with no assistance. Sometimes enginerring work can result in Olympia getting through trains to elsrwhere. One of the best was a day where all Olympia trains were running through to Wimbledon and vice versa, via the Circle line.
I believe they do occasionally but they are normally "Ghost trains" i.e. they are not scheduled to but they sometimes end up or start there for strange reasons. Mr Marshall would know more than I
Locals still call the Upminster to Romford line the push and pull line as it is all single track.
Interesting video. I wonder why Stratford is not on the list?! LNER station, Central Line pushed in, taking over LNER routes. But I always enjoy your videos.
Stratford is managed by TFL London Underground
@@Firitesen It's another of these curious cases where it is owned by Network Rail but managed by TfL. But is it definitely the Underground part that manages it?
Loved the ending - very honest!
An idea for a future video is explaining why the Metropolitan Line north of Harrow used to be joint owned by the Underground and a main line railway company but isn't anymore.
Great video as always, but apropos of nothing, I desperately want to know what the guy at 5.10 spotted on the platform! One hopes a coin...
Not bad, to say I live in Blackpool, there are only 3 of those stations I haven't been to. Though I have been on a train passing through two of them.
I forgot it was called the London Underground and expected a video on stations that were seemingly underground but were actually at-grade/elevated
Thanks!
And thank you!
Did you forget that Barking is served by the H&C as well? Terminus for it!!
That's my brain thoroughly scrambled. 😂 Enjoyed all the pretty trains, though.
2:57 I remember going there once but works were going on so I didn’t get to see the station properly.
From a nerd ..yeah for nerdiness! 😁
Kensington Olympia, may yet get more trains, on all its lines, because the Exhibition Hall is being turned into a go to tourist destination, with the demise of Earl's Court Exhibition Hall.
Interesting historical fact, the freightliner container depot at Willesden Junction is built on the site of the steam engine depot.
Time to brag....I saw a train with two BR type 40 diesel engines, one in two tone green and one in classic BR greeny blue, with five Pullman coaches, consisting of a guard's van and buffet car, plus three Brighton Belle coaches, travelling through Wembley Central, last Thursday, heading for a heritage event. Unfortunately they may have or not have been later involved, in the slow speed prang with the Flying Scotsman, that occurred at that event.
Love your videos,
I'm doing a paper on Charles Yerkes and have trouble finding sources. Would you happen to have any suggestions on where to look?
(sorry for the bad English.)
As live in West Midlands,enjoyed your insight of London network,I had visiting London ,use Tube getting round,,when in London,,plus ferry to Greenwich. ,which one of my favourite area,eg museum Cutty Park ship,park, please tell more videos, l like about , read and watching about history looking forward next video😂
Overground, underground Jago moves in mysterious ways his wonders to reveal.