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@@JulianSortland What a surprise that the tech bros at Ground News want to make it harder to spot lies by adorning them in he-said-she-said false equivalence.
I have two gripes with the Elizabeth line 1 the time spent at each station at least within the London area feels quite long as somebody did it uses the tube frequently. 2 the seats are less comfortable than the average tube line seat. I absolutely adore the spacious carriages and air conditioning
A very good summary of issues. Both Tories and Labor expect the rail network to operate on the break-even principle - all costs covered by fares, freight charges. However, economies perform better when benificiaries pay - thus general economic taxes should cover the cost of infrastrtucture at the least. However, as London relies more on public transport, a London tax surcharge on income would be useful - say 1%.
1% is an awful lot. Try adding 1% to all your expenses, it really adds up. The problem with the system at the moment is everything made such huge losses during the worst of the pandemic they’re still trying to catch up. Normally the system would be expected to pay for itself, lest it become an endless pit to shovel money into for an underutilized system, as has happened on other systems elsewhere.
Yes, it is a lot. But ordinary people who live some distance from London think it rich and getting resources they do not. Therefore useful that Londoners seen to be payintmore tax to fund their transport. @@andrewreynolds4949
7:54 I've heard that the trains don't change over well somewhere around the GWML because of the frankly ancient signalling, and Heathrow Express/GWR being stubborn. So if you see delays around there that's usually why.
I wouldn’t call the ETCS signaling system older than CBTC. It’s just designed for a different purpose. CBTC works best for metro conditions whilst ETCS is more of a mainline/branchline signaling system. Both can theoretically offer ATO.
The trick to understanding rail privitisation seems to be that it's half scamming the government/public into funneling money into the owner's pockets for no real benefit and half scamming the various politicians, investors and the like into actually providing the necessary money to, you know, actualy do the job that is the entire point of the exercise in the first place. The former has a strange tendency to be somewhat easier than the latter... though the real fun is when the same plan does both at once. This is, of course, a Very broad generalisation.
Another view could be the government and politicians have such a restrictive and inefficient stranglehold on how the railways are run that only people trying to scam money off the UK government bother to get involved
Very good as always (apart from the 25Kw - that would be a lot of power!). The lack of luggage provision from Heathrow is bonkers, and the lack of toilets led to people self-evacuating, possibly in more ways than one from the debacle on the line west of Paddington on December 7th.
If the Airport (Heathrow) & City Line was developed (see above comment) it could have more provision for luggage without compromising the Reading Branch, commuter needs. Reading Trains could then also have WC's. Bit of a no brainer!
An important bit of information about Bombardier (Transportation), the designer of these trains: In the future, new ones would be built by Alstom since Alstom bought Bombardier in 2021.
I do like the Elizabeth line, but that’s when I get it from Maidenhead to central london and can get a seat. Coming the other direction however… At least we don’t have to change at Paddington anymore… remember that phase..
An interesting video.... considering the whole family of this group of Bombardier trains and how many are running around.... what on earth went wrong with the class 701 for South Western Railway... are they really that different ??
It was mostly due to complicated software issues and significant pandemic-related build quality control problems, but labor disputes have slowed things further
So many colours of modern trains around the gaff these days. It's the railways, not a bleeding rainbow, or a corporate flipping identity. British Rail dark blue with a yellow face for above ground trains. Silvery chrome with London Transport red trim for trains under the ground. Nice and simple. No mucking about. Worked fairly well for decades. What are the toffs going to mess with next? Video referees in our football? Raspberry flavoured Jaffa Cakes? I dunno. 😆
you'll be astounded when you see japan's rail network, a good chunk of them colours the trains based on the lines they run on, and i think that's the best practice which should be done by more countries.
Excellent video, as normal ! Back in the 1980s, when I was a fit young teenager I remember the "elderly" class 315s being bright shiny and brand new ! ( On the Shenfield to Liverpool Street section). They replaced some truly knackered trains, I think from the 1950s ! Yes, there's always a pedant ready to pick up on the smallest of errors, and today, sorry Jago, that's ME ! 25K Volt supply surely ? Not 25K Watt ! (see 6:52 ) My learner motorcycle had about an 11K Watt engine, so 2 of those 125cc combustion engines would be about 22KW. It must take quite bit more than 2 x 125cc motorbike engines to pull a train ! Sorry about the pedanticism, back onto the new 345s as compared to the older 315s. The new 345s are a lot quieter and smoother, however the seats are merely some fabric over a bit of rock hard plastic . The 315's seats, whilst not luxurious had a hell of a lot more padding on them ! I can't remember if the 315s had toilets, so long ago, and I'm getting on a bit now. Maybe I've got premature Alzheimers ! The walk through bit on the new trains is very useful. Put some more padding on the seats, and I'd be happy ! Finally, is it just me, the "tooth" pattern on the doors make it look like the doors have teeth , are they trying to scare the children ? :-D
Same, to this day I still can't understand MTR's affiliation with the Elizabeth Line. Speaking of the MTR, their new Q-trains are unbearable, uncomfortable seats and much too bright lighting.
No loos on middle-distance stock?! That's the reason I'd never cheap-out and take the New Line's 'Bean Can' stock from Guildford to London. But yeah, I never _plan_ to use a train loo - they're more of a belt-and-braces thing.
I like the line, but hate the armrests, they are very uncomfortable. I really think they are unnecessary. I think lack of toilets is an issue if travelling from, say, Heathrow or further west through to Kent or Essex, although like you, Jago, I avoid using them if at all possible, but the toilets on the stations are mainly a long way from the platforms or only accessible with a disabled key. At Liverpool Street it is necessary to ‘clock out’ and back in again as the toilets are on the main concourse. Overall, though, it’s a good service.
Any ideas of the service/infrastructure trains used (esp in the tunnel sections) Presumably not the LUL Battery Locos so are they all Network Rail things ?
I believe they're similar to the ones used on NR. TfL keep them at Plumstead depot. You can see them on the left when travelling towards Abbey Wood from Woolwich
This is why they shouldve kept the 315s and 360s and gave them to the Lizzy line as they have toliet. Oh well, the tourists asked for these plastic trains....
Jago, as a child growing up in the 50's, 60''s, 70's .... (just ask my wife), I can converse multi-unitarily so I am not picking you up on the point of using mixed units in your video to give a good flow to it numerically and linguistically. However, when you stated that their power source was 25kW (kilowatts) I must object. This would give the trains a power less than a Ford Anglia (33hp) and being at least 300 times more massive far poorer performance! I'm sure what you meant to say was 25kV from the over head supply?🤭
“You can’t trust trains to make difficult decisions; I’ve seen Thomas the Tank Engine.” If only Sir Topham Hatt would learn that lesson. The Island of Sodor has an abysmal safety record…
I'm not a regular user, but on the occasions I have - mostly from Liverpool St to LHR - it's been a very agreeable experience. Better than the Paris RER.
I can't help but wonder why they're pushing self-driving cars so much when we barely have self-driving trains now. As for my views on the line, I like being able to train all the way into Tottenham Court Road. I DON'T like the rock-hard, narrow seats, or the fact that people can (AND DO) ride bicycles down the full length of the train. Granted, I don't have much use for London these days now all the decent shops have shut and Camden market has been turned over to hipster vegan microbreweries, so I've barely used it.
i must say that I am somewhat disappointed that you neglected to mention the number one biggest problem with the procurement of these trains which is that they have the wrong platform height. This means that they built the core section with a non-standard platform height which will be impossible to change since you'd have to rebuild every single platform all at once over a multi year closure of the core and also roll out brand new rolling stock all at once - a complete nightmare. The alternative is to rebuild the extremities of the network but the slow lines on both the gwml and to a lesser extent the geml are still used by other operators who may or may not run trains with the correct height. The worse thing is that this only happened because apparently no one could be assed to make bombardier change their Aventra model to match uk platform height and they got the contract as a kind of pity prise for not getting the TL contract
In theory, trains do have wi-fi. You only realise how rubbish it is after having spent a lot of time accessing the service and then experiencing a lot of dropouts. If I'm on a journey of less than 15 minutes, I don't bother.
@@eattherich9215 I know you can connect to it but it never works outside the station lol. I just wait till the rain is at the station and even then it takes 100 years to connect.
@@TheValutOfEd really, it Should be a wi-fi hub and cellular repeater (or several) in the train, but the train should not be using regular wifi or cell service to connect to anything. There are a variety of viable ways of doing it, but every single one involves running wire from station to station down the tunnels and the trains connecting to That by various methods, the better of which shouldn't have connectivity issues at all (aside, perhaps, from bandwith limits if every single passenger on every single train in a given section is using it at once), and then connecting to the regular telecommunications network from the stations. Sounds like they're trying to use dodgy wireless repeaters the whole way along instead.
Prince came up with the original idea for a purple train back in 1984. Being big into his train spotting (you could often find him on the platforms of Clapham Junction at the weekends with his notebook, sandwiches and anorak), he even wrote a song about it. Unfortunately, due to pressure from British Rail’s legal team, he had to rename the song before its release on the album, which also shared its new name. I don’t think he ever quite forgave BR after that. But his legacy lives on across London, thanks to TFL.
I have to say, the popularity of the Elizabeth line skyrocketed in such a short space of time. When it first opened in 2022, I popped up to London to have a ride on it, and it was relatively quiet and seats were available. Flash forward a couple of months and ever since then, the times I've travelled on it (between Ealing Broadway and Farringdon) have almost always been standing room only.
It seems crazy that the service west of London is so much less than to Shenfield and Abbey Wood. Is it another case of the people whose job it is to predict usage yet again failing to get it right?
@@ricktownend9144 Indeed. It's only something like 2 trains per hour that call at Acton Mainline, but 3 or 4 per hour just one stop down the line at Ealing Broadway.
@@AFCManUk In part less at Acton Main Line because of need to keep GWR lines clear for their run into Paddington. Essentially the Ends of the Lines were kept at original service levels and didnt allow for the (already coming by new residential developments) increase in passengers - however dont the trains actually carry more passengers than the stock they replaced ?
It would be possible to build a train so long that it would fill the whole length of the line. Passengers would walk through until they got to the station they wanted. Just think of the money saved on power.🤪
The way the Elizabeth Line is set up as both a metro and commuter railway might be a bit unusual for the UK, but in Japan it’s pretty normal and commonplace, especially in bigger cities like Tokyo and Osaka. Over there, metro and commuter rail lines often have direct connections with each other, and there are often through-train interlined services between two or more lines. These different lines are also usually owned by different companies, and trains from these different companies would jointly operate on the combined through service. Metro-style train cars are the “default” rolling stock for such train services from what I have observed, but more intercity-like trains are used on more premium, express/rapid variants of such services - for an extra fare, of course. Some of these trains look like regular metro-style trains, but are fitted with seats that can be rotated into either a longitudinal layout for running on regular services, or a transverse layout when running on such premium express/rapid services. Personally, I believe such hybrid metro/commuter rail services/lines will become more commonplace around the world in the future, especially as cities expand and there’s a growing desire to ditch personal car ownership in favour of transit. Indeed, I think that, had London not put in the Green Belt project post-WWII and expanded greatly in a similar fashion to Tokyo back then, London might had more Elizabeth Line-like railway lines and services earlier.
Given that the English frequently go to Paris (even decision-makers), the first thing they see when arriving at Paris Gare du Nord are lines B and D (RER), and the transilien on the surface. Crossrail/Elizabeth Line is a heavy RER or metro, quite close to the RER A and B in concept. Metro frequencies, but heavy and wide equipment (although limited to 2.77m wide, probably due to the historic lines) The RER itself was partly born from the observation of the Sceaux line opened in 1860 (the southern part of line B), and the JR lines in Japan. But the difference is the central underground section at high speed (100kph) Japan copied the concept by merging the Yokosuka and Sobu Line via a 9km tunnel in 1972. The overground is quite similar to Line C (RER C) and the transilien is the closest thing to the suburban lines of South West Trains or Southern with a terminus at a surface station.
My phone doesn't trust it because of SSL certicifate shenanigans, the station Wi-Fi is... better now I have a newer phone that plays with SIM authentication
"but the government are hesitant"...."only need 5 trains"...."may have to shut down production"..... proceeds to bang head on desk....why..why are we so incompetent in this country?! 😭
The video is informative and informed, quite up to your usual excellent standards. I'd add to your point about the light weight construction driving energy efficiency: it also allows faster acceleration, which is critical, especially on the Central London sections.
Jago, all you have to understand about the privatised rail network is that it was designed to maximise shareholder returns with the minimum investment.
It seems you have very little notion of how much these private companies have actually invested.... Typically, without large investments, there are little returns to reap for shareholders.
@@richardharrold9736British Rail didn't stick us with the awful shuddering Pacers for far to bloody long. That was the private companies that did that.
@@Bacony_Cakes BR was the one that came up with the Pacers in the first place as a result of bankrupting itself with successive failed motive power modernisation programmes...
@@richardharrold9736 You may like to research that statement. BR investment in rolling stock was similar - or the same (depending on the year you take) than the investment by the ROSCOs since privatisation, and remember BR had to give it's rolling stock away to the ROSCOs for them to commence business with. It can be argued that the BR rolling stock passenger comfort factor was a significant level above that of the current stock.
I do agree the fundamental flaw with the Class 345 is that it's both too multipurpose, and not multipurpose enough. The mixed seating arrangement is nice, but causes issues in the core as there's a lot of shuffling at busy stations when getting off. Additionally the lack of luggage space for heathrow bound trains cause all sorts of issues with space, most notably with people unfamiliar with the line, with the doors opening on the right hand side in the core, and at heathrow, but on the left side out of the core, meaning doorways get blocked at busy times, leading to frustration for all. I know that the Elizabeth line, at least in the core, can take trains up to 11 coaches long, its why all the core section stations are so long. I can't recall if the 345s have the capability to take 2 additional coaches but I think it would do wonders at peak times. Even if they're configured like each of the cab ends with only standing area, it would make sense as most passengers that use the end of the train are usually alighting in the core anyway to reduce walking time. I think the best solution to the problem might be to re-jigger the timetable a bit. I don't have the data to justify but diversifying the journeys might result in better passenger flow. I don't know why half the services from shenfield terminate at paddington, and don't continue on to a destination further west that isn't Terminal 5. With the T5 train being the only service that goes through the core in that direction, it leads to it being cramped a lot, especially at peak times. There's a bay platform at Hayes and Harlington that could be used for this, and similarly I think there's an unused bay platform at Ilford that could be used similarly. The Elizabeth line is the epitome of any British infrastructure project these days: it mostly works as intended, but becomes overstrained as it becomes the best option as older infrastructure pales in comparison. Hopefully Old Oak Common won't completely break the line.
Thats interesting , a half hourly Hayes-Ilford All stations might be useful , replacing the present AML stoppings , allowing faster trains from the West to immediately preceed them. This might mean changing trains ( something I dont really like ) but might be a way around the track capacity
The train length I think is currently constrained by the length of stations not on the core. They would have to either extend them to fit 11 car trains or deal with locking out two coaches at those stations, and the problems that causes. Old Oak Common station will cause congestion issues, but all trains that currently terminate at Paddington will be extended there. The dedicated reversing siding will also make turnaround times much quicker, in theory, than the complicated method they currently use at Paddington.
The 345s are almost certainly never going to be lengthened to 11 cars. The main limiting factors are on the short platform stations on the East and West sections of the line. At Heathrow T4 the train wouldn't fit without blocking the points and limiting the station to only a single platform, and at Hanwell almost half of the entire train would be hanging off the end of the platform. Even in the central section, Paddington would require significant work for lengthening as the additional soft provisioned car lengths are actually beyond the end of the current platform; at Custom House the platforms are already shorter than the current trains by about a metre, and at Abbey Wood the crossover is again too close to the platform for any lengthening to be possible without re-laying the track. And that's without also considering that a number of PSDs would need to be relocated throughout the 8 subsurface stations that currently have them
They also don't have enough doors for the busy core. The cars are pretty long, they should have 4 doors per side, not 3. This would result in a similar door spacing to German S-Bahn trains
Someone might have mentioned this already, but there may be capacity restrictions on the main line out of Paddington. Partly GWR have some stopping trains, and there are also slow-moving freight trains from the depot near Acton Main Line. Would like to see more frequent trains here too
I feel that more comparisons should be made between the Elizabeth line and Thameslink. Both have a core section running through a dedicated tunnel and both serve a bunch of towns outside London (west and east in the case of the former, and north and south in the case of the latter). Both are standing room only during busy periods. I use both frequently and find Thameslink far more comfortable as long as I can find a seat. As an older gentleman, I also find the toilet essential. It is hit and miss whether I can make it from Farringdon to Reading without a mishap. You can recognise me - I'm the one making a dash for the loos as the train opens its doors at Reading station.
3:20 Yes it was! My god, for a while the new Elizabeth line trains were interjected with our old TFL ones and getting one of the new trains was a great feeling. Air Conditioned, spacious (the old 315's had a stupid seating arrangement that make peak time commuting a nightmare and off peak travel awkward).
I think we should be grateful that Bombardier got the contract and not Hitatchi. I thought Ground was a coffee....('Waiter! Waiter! This coffee tastes like mud!' Yes, Sir. It was only Ground ...never mind...). Really nice trains. Love the Liz Line.
@h.martinsmith7839 You can get from Stratford to Ealing Broadway on Elizabeth line in 29 minutes but on Central the same journey takes 50+ minutes... Also from ealing broadway to bond street in like 2-3 stops on elizabeth comapred to 11 on central...
When the trains were first introduced there were teething problems, the tannoy messages were far too loud and the air condition was sometimes set up far too high - to the point once in mid-summer I had to get off the train before my stop and walk the rest of the way just to warm myself up. This seems to mostly be fixed now. However the seats are among the least comfortable I have ever sat in and while the transverse seating may allow for more standing passengers they are not as popular, the forward facing seats always seem fill up first followed by the backwards facing seats. Also, it would be better if there were more trains terminating at the above ground platforms at Liverpool Street since it is now very difficult to so get a seat on the through trains during the busy periods which never used to be a problem. I believe that the Essex customers are not very well served by this new service in comparison to what we previously had, although I do accept that is not the experience for other users especially those from Kent.
Certainly scope for Brentwood-Romford-(All Stations) - Ilford-Stratford-Liv St alternating 15mins with Brentwood-Romford-Ilford-All Stations - Liv Street in peaks (to run Liv Street-Stratford-Barking-Barking Riverside (or Pitsea) if C2C wiring can take it) for shoppers
'Culture shock' is a good way to describe the difference between the old and frankly disgusting 315 stock and the new 345 stock. The old trains that plied between Shenfield and Liverpool Street were dirty, smelly, festooned with litter and often graffiti. I can report that the new trains remain airy, clean and thankfully graffiti free, cleaners enter the train as soon as they have reached Shenfield. I read an awful lot of guff about the state of Britain's railways, usually by people who never experienced the old broken-down British Rail and somehow believed it was a 'golden era' of railways; the Elizabeth Line proves that it is not beyond the wit of man to produce a clean, efficient commuter rail service fit for the 21st century.
Have to say, these trains have the hardest seats trying to look like soft seats, I have ever experienced. They may as well be plain wood (carbon fibre? plastic?).
Was in London last fall. Took crossrail from and to the Airport. Great service. Fast, convenient and comfortable, even with Luggage. I will say its a very long walk to the train from the airport terminal. Its all underground and relatively flat with elevators where needed, but with luggage it can be a trek. Also the station at the airport is clearly not new, and is small and dark. That could do with an upgrade. Bought a GWR ticket to Windsor Castle, and somehow ended up on a crossrail train back into London. No issue there except there was no cell service in the station on arrival, and was unable to scan my GWR ticket to let us out of the station at Tottenham Court Road. Fortunately station staff were readily available to help, and let us out.
'I will say its a very long walk to the train from the airport terminal.' It's the same for every airport. I flew back to Gatwick from France last year and the walk from the terminal is nearly 15 minutes. I was beyond grumpy by the time I got down to the station platform.
No eticket scanning on TfL. The ticket was most likely only valid to Paddington, so they may have taken pity on you. Could have used contactless all the way though.
It's almost as though the people who design ("design", forsooth!) ground transport to airports have never thought about the people using it as passengers, with luggage. And as though the people who design airports (and they do design them) think of people using them as potential customers at all the airport concessions, and not passengers with luggage, and a need to find (and get to) the right gate.
@@eattherich9215 'It's the same for every airport.' Schiphol (Amsterdam) is OK. From the terminal building, you take a lift downstairs, and you're on the platform. The problem of Schiphol is that you have to walk an insane distance within the terminal itself; at least, we did last time we flew.
@@bigaspidistra Its was a to/from Paddington GWR ticket. But when we got off at Paddington, the station staff told us we could just get back on the Elizabeth line train to our final stop which was Tottenham Court road. So that might be what happened.
Good news on the charging prospect. I’ve come across a train with newly fitted USB charging ports at the transverse seats. Hopefully they will be rolling this out to the entire line.
Proposed Airport (Heathrow) and City Line. Jago your comments on the congestion on the new Elisabeth line trains are well made yet the northern main line terminals are not served and yet more passengers/congestion is to come. The below proposal may be of interest. By way of background in the 60’s I attended High School in Hammersmith and in the 70’s I worked in a transport consultancy practice near Euston Sq. (ES) station, both accessed via the Met as it then was. This was at the time when the practice was consulting with LT on extending the London Underground to Heathrow. In short. At the time I recommended re-connecting the old Hammersmith and City Line (H&CL) to the high level District Line (DL) Grove Road station and then extending the DL into Heathrow. To me the idea of extending a Tube line was ridiculous. This feeling had been reinforced by a recent experience with the then new large loading gauge rolling stock of the Toronto underground. The six principal reasons for my recommendation were: - 1). The large number of existing DL & PL City commuters interchanging on to the H&CL via a main road crossing at Hammersmith Broadway. 2). The larger loading gauge this would make available for the ever-growing number of West London commuters on the lines affected. 3). The larger loading gauge would more comfortably accommodate the ever-growing number of airline passengers with luggage. 4). Provide a direct link from Heathrow to all North London Main Line rail terminals. 5). Provide a direct link to existing stop over hotel accommodation adjacent to the North London ML terminals. 6). Existing lack of capacity on the H&CL from Hammersmith into the City.
Fast forward to 2024 The old Hammersmith high level DL/HCL link land has been sold off. Wide body aircraft (747 type) have become common place and the A380 went into production. The Elizabeth Line (EL) has been opened through the West End, however it is still missing out Marylebone, Baker St, Euston ML, St Pancras and Kings Cross stations. It also seems to be running at standing room only and still with insufficient luggage space. In addition, the EL connection to the north-west platforms of Paddington ML and the HCL interchange platforms leave much to be desired. Heathrow arrivals still jam up the Piccadilly trains and subways. Piccadilly line Congestion should ease with the new trains but not in the subways. Conclusion Taking the above into account (as a minimum) one must enquire as to the merits of providing a new Airport and City Line railway running from Heathrow via the EL rails to the Paddington HCL rails with:-
A) A step free interchange at Westbourne Park (large Bus Interchange, EL and HCL)
or
B) A cross platform change at Royal Oak (H&CL & EL only) then on to Aldgate or even Southend Airport. Both the rails and the need exist. This need will grow further if one considers the new runway proposed for Heathrow and potential HS2 inputs. In addition, the proposed extension of the Euston Sq. Station platforms and its new exit alone will generate considerably more transits through Euston Sq. Station than it has today, even if Old Oak Common initially takes much Euston ML traffic. (TFL research). What is initially needed to make an Airport and City Line work physically. In addition to the already proposed Euston Sq. works some platform length mitigation works will be required at both Edgware Rd and Baker St HCL platforms to take trains of equal length to the existing type, S8 trains, however I understand little construction work would be required to run S7 equivalent train sets. Not ideal I agree as the problem is one of congestion. As the existing Baker Street H&CL platforms 5 & 6 desperately need to be extended west, it is proposed that the platforms be extended to a new station access at Glentworth Street. Thus giving improved street access to Marylebone ML and the proposed new commercial developments to the west of Baker Street station along Marylebone Rd corridor. This would also help relive interchange congestion within the original Baker Street platform triangle. That said, it is probable that almost all H&CL platforms will need extension in the future and the extensions of the Euston Sq. and Baker Street platforms need to be regarded as part of an ongoing platform improvement program. Obviously trains would need to have a suitable power train.
If, EL road availability around the entry to Paddington ML is a genuine problem as mentioned in some comments below suggest. It should be noted that the ACL from Heathrow would also bypass the need for the extremely dangerous “Out of Station” interchange crossing of Hammersmith Broadway. Thus reducing the loading on H&CL trains between Hammersmith & Paddington and making the substitution of certain H&CL trains with ACL trains on TfL rails before Royal Oak a practical proposition.
I really enjoy your content @JagoHazzard. But just one thing, when I went on the Elizabeth line in January from Stratford to LHR T5, I saw USB charging ports on the forward/rearward facing seat walls. But I only saw 2 every car or something. There’s barely any of them but there are some
I travelled from Gidea Park to Twyford with a bike and would make the following comments. There isn't any space for bicycles, even the old trains into Liverpool Street had a space in every 4 car set, near the toilets (which as you point out don't exist) There is wi-fi, but only out in the open. Once the trains dive under London the signal goes. The platform service indicators above the doors are hopeless. Twice I have been waiting for a train and the indicators have shown "First train in 4 minutes - Second train in 1 minute"
It's nice to see British trains without the HIDEOUS orange bib. They look great! Now retrofit them with toilets, power outlets and all-transverse seating, and we are talking.
I was on the first Elizabeth line commute from Abbey wood to Paddington. I still have the ticket. I was offered 2k from someone Australia for my ticket. No chance. It will be worth a fortune in years to come.
There's the same problem regarding how the trains are designed in term of seatings and stuff with the RER in France... Probably because they cover more or less the same kind of transport : Subway like in Central Paris and suburban cummuter trains outside of Paris. And in some cases it can takes 2 hours and a half to go from one end of the line to the other ( Looking at you the RER C ) which is longer than doing a Paris to Lyon travel in TGV.
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I subscribed - the emails they send are horribly US specific.
Interesting that the less factual has a right bias, the more factual a "left" one. That is demonstrated in many lists / graphics of US media.
@@JulianSortland What a surprise that the tech bros at Ground News want to make it harder to spot lies by adorning them in he-said-she-said false equivalence.
7:46 "you can't trust trains to make difficult decisions, I've seen Thomas the tank engine". very funny
7:41 actually
"Looking at you Paddington".
I'll get Mr. Brown to have a quiet word with him.
I have two gripes with the Elizabeth line
1 the time spent at each station at least within the London area feels quite long as somebody did it uses the tube frequently.
2 the seats are less comfortable than the average tube line seat.
I absolutely adore the spacious carriages and air conditioning
It was slowed in stations pre Bond Street. Think it has to slow now if problems getting out of tunnel section at Paddington.
@@highpath4776 The only times I've ever taken the Elizabeth line is after Bond Street opened, still seemingly unnecessarily long dwell times
@@luelou8464
A very good summary of issues. Both Tories and Labor expect the rail network to operate on the break-even principle - all costs covered by fares, freight charges. However, economies perform better when benificiaries pay - thus general economic taxes should cover the cost of infrastrtucture at the least. However, as London relies more on public transport, a London tax surcharge on income would be useful - say 1%.
1% is an awful lot. Try adding 1% to all your expenses, it really adds up.
The problem with the system at the moment is everything made such huge losses during the worst of the pandemic they’re still trying to catch up. Normally the system would be expected to pay for itself, lest it become an endless pit to shovel money into for an underutilized system, as has happened on other systems elsewhere.
Yes, it is a lot. But ordinary people who live some distance from London think it rich and getting resources they do not. Therefore useful that Londoners seen to be payintmore tax to fund their transport. @@andrewreynolds4949
7:54 I've heard that the trains don't change over well somewhere around the GWML because of the frankly ancient signalling, and Heathrow Express/GWR being stubborn. So if you see delays around there that's usually why.
The 345s are starting to get USB charging ports installed. Seen it on a few my journeys over the last few weeks
I wouldn’t call the ETCS signaling system older than CBTC. It’s just designed for a different purpose. CBTC works best for metro conditions whilst ETCS is more of a mainline/branchline signaling system. Both can theoretically offer ATO.
Thought your channel was going downhill information wise ,but nope, back where it should be. Keep it up. Love your stuff.
No mention of the proposed extension from Abbey Wood to Gravesend via Ebbsfleet and ultimately across The Thames to Sheffield ?
"Ground" in the sponsor's logo looks more like GROIIND
The trick to understanding rail privitisation seems to be that it's half scamming the government/public into funneling money into the owner's pockets for no real benefit and half scamming the various politicians, investors and the like into actually providing the necessary money to, you know, actualy do the job that is the entire point of the exercise in the first place.
The former has a strange tendency to be somewhat easier than the latter... though the real fun is when the same plan does both at once.
This is, of course, a Very broad generalisation.
Another view could be the government and politicians have such a restrictive and inefficient stranglehold on how the railways are run that only people trying to scam money off the UK government bother to get involved
Could we please have a video exploring MTR? It is a topic that I quite simply cannot understand.
Very good as always (apart from the 25Kw - that would be a lot of power!). The lack of luggage provision from Heathrow is bonkers, and the lack of toilets led to people self-evacuating, possibly in more ways than one from the debacle on the line west of Paddington on December 7th.
If the Airport (Heathrow) & City Line was developed (see above comment) it could have more provision for luggage without compromising the Reading Branch, commuter needs. Reading Trains could then also have WC's. Bit of a no brainer!
When the next batch is built they should be dual voltage to enable them to run through to Dartford on the 3rd rail.
Only Jago could do a Torchwood AND Thomas the tank engine jokes, and it works.
An important bit of information about Bombardier (Transportation), the designer of these trains: In the future, new ones would be built by Alstom since Alstom bought Bombardier in 2021.
I do like the Elizabeth line, but that’s when I get it from Maidenhead to central london and can get a seat. Coming the other direction however…
At least we don’t have to change at Paddington anymore… remember that phase..
Thank goodness you clarified the title of this video because I thought you meant they were the only worthy trains lol
Jago exposing himself brilliantly here
An interesting video.... considering the whole family of this group of Bombardier trains and how many are running around.... what on earth went wrong with the class 701 for South Western Railway... are they really that different ??
It was mostly due to complicated software issues and significant pandemic-related build quality control problems, but labor disputes have slowed things further
good stuff. congrats on your new flat.
7:16 which is why the Victoria line's doors fly open so quickly while other trains wait for a while
“I will never understand the privatised rail network.” Neither do the government. Or, come to that, the privatised rail network itself.
Corruption, corruption, corruption
Great video sir, btw it's called Crossrail!!!
My gripe with the trains, is a lack of toilet.
Jago, I do believe the 378’s were dubbed as Capitalstars due solely working in the Capital, all in all a very good vid, keep them coming
The should have at least put a luggage rack in one carriage to carriages given the service Heathtrow
LED or LCD information screens? Well depending how you look at it, it's destination on the front of the train is a LED...
So many colours of modern trains around the gaff these days. It's the railways, not a bleeding rainbow, or a corporate flipping identity. British Rail dark blue with a yellow face for above ground trains. Silvery chrome with London Transport red trim for trains under the ground. Nice and simple. No mucking about. Worked fairly well for decades. What are the toffs going to mess with next? Video referees in our football? Raspberry flavoured Jaffa Cakes? I dunno. 😆
you'll be astounded when you see japan's rail network, a good chunk of them colours the trains based on the lines they run on, and i think that's the best practice which should be done by more countries.
Has anyone noticed that the trains resemble FREIGHT CARS in the sense that there's NO FORWARD VIEW?!
25KW!!!!!.......Think you meant 25KV!!!!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Excellent video, as normal !
Back in the 1980s, when I was a fit young teenager I remember the "elderly" class 315s being bright shiny and brand new ! ( On the Shenfield to Liverpool Street section).
They replaced some truly knackered trains, I think from the 1950s !
Yes, there's always a pedant ready to pick up on the smallest of errors, and today, sorry Jago, that's ME !
25K Volt supply surely ? Not 25K Watt ! (see 6:52 )
My learner motorcycle had about an 11K Watt engine, so 2 of those 125cc combustion engines would be about 22KW.
It must take quite bit more than 2 x 125cc motorbike engines to pull a train !
Sorry about the pedanticism, back onto the new 345s as compared to the older 315s.
The new 345s are a lot quieter and smoother, however the seats are merely some fabric over a bit of rock hard plastic .
The 315's seats, whilst not luxurious had a hell of a lot more padding on them !
I can't remember if the 315s had toilets, so long ago, and I'm getting on a bit now. Maybe I've got premature Alzheimers !
The walk through bit on the new trains is very useful.
Put some more padding on the seats, and I'd be happy !
Finally, is it just me, the "tooth" pattern on the doors make it look like the doors have teeth , are they trying to scare the children ? :-D
Same, to this day I still can't understand MTR's affiliation with the Elizabeth Line. Speaking of the MTR, their new Q-trains are unbearable, uncomfortable seats and much too bright lighting.
No loos on middle-distance stock?! That's the reason I'd never cheap-out and take the New Line's 'Bean Can' stock from Guildford to London. But yeah, I never _plan_ to use a train loo - they're more of a belt-and-braces thing.
I like the line, but hate the armrests, they are very uncomfortable. I really think they are unnecessary. I think lack of toilets is an issue if travelling from, say, Heathrow or further west through to Kent or Essex, although like you, Jago, I avoid using them if at all possible, but the toilets on the stations are mainly a long way from the platforms or only accessible with a disabled key. At Liverpool Street it is necessary to ‘clock out’ and back in again as the toilets are on the main concourse. Overall, though, it’s a good service.
Any ideas of the service/infrastructure trains used (esp in the tunnel sections) Presumably not the LUL Battery Locos so are they all Network Rail things ?
I believe they're similar to the ones used on NR. TfL keep them at Plumstead depot. You can see them on the left when travelling towards Abbey Wood from Woolwich
2:26 The days of yore!
This is why they shouldve kept the 315s and 360s and gave them to the Lizzy line as they have toliet. Oh well, the tourists asked for these plastic trains....
I've seen a video showing retrofitted charging ports.
Jago, as a child growing up in the 50's, 60''s, 70's .... (just ask my wife), I can converse multi-unitarily so I am not picking you up on the point of using mixed units in your video to give a good flow to it numerically and linguistically. However, when you stated that their power source was 25kW (kilowatts) I must object. This would give the trains a power less than a Ford Anglia (33hp) and being at least 300 times more massive far poorer performance! I'm sure what you meant to say was 25kV from the over head supply?🤭
“You can’t trust trains to make difficult decisions; I’ve seen Thomas the Tank Engine.”
If only Sir Topham Hatt would learn that lesson. The Island of Sodor has an abysmal safety record…
Compromised trains? In a Tory government? Who would've guessed!
I thought everyone on the Elizabeth Line was on strike all the time.
I'm not a regular user, but on the occasions I have - mostly from Liverpool St to LHR - it's been a very agreeable experience. Better than the Paris RER.
I’m not a royalist. Can I carry on calling it Crossrail?
Stick a pin in the "Bombar-dire", just in case they turn out to be terrible in a decade.
11:10 was the high speed rail not cancelled already?
No, just rolled back in scale
1:27 that’s a 196 not a 730
MTR mentioned 🗣🇭🇰
I can't help but wonder why they're pushing self-driving cars so much when we barely have self-driving trains now.
As for my views on the line, I like being able to train all the way into Tottenham Court Road. I DON'T like the rock-hard, narrow seats, or the fact that people can (AND DO) ride bicycles down the full length of the train.
Granted, I don't have much use for London these days now all the decent shops have shut and Camden market has been turned over to hipster vegan microbreweries, so I've barely used it.
I think you meant 25kv not 25kw power supply
10:44 there are usb sockets at least
i must say that I am somewhat disappointed that you neglected to mention the number one biggest problem with the procurement of these trains which is that they have the wrong platform height. This means that they built the core section with a non-standard platform height which will be impossible to change since you'd have to rebuild every single platform all at once over a multi year closure of the core and also roll out brand new rolling stock all at once - a complete nightmare. The alternative is to rebuild the extremities of the network but the slow lines on both the gwml and to a lesser extent the geml are still used by other operators who may or may not run trains with the correct height. The worse thing is that this only happened because apparently no one could be assed to make bombardier change their Aventra model to match uk platform height and they got the contract as a kind of pity prise for not getting the TL contract
Have you forgotten the heathrow branch? They've had this 'non-standard' platform height since the 90s
How Mr.Hazzard managed to describe the Sun newspaper without resorting to verbal abuse is testament to his absolute professionalism !!
You don't have to resort to verbal abuse to refer the the F****** Sun Newspaper!
OH, sorry, er, yes, you do........
@@xenon53827"Newspaper"
😊😊😊❤@@xenon53827
Niche but solid Torchwood gag!
I totally forgot that show until just now
It is? I must be within the niche then
@@66PHILB
Yep… me too. Best series of the show. I'm niche.
Yeah I came down here to comment that. 10/10 throw away joke
“In theory they have WiFi.” Hahaha I like how older Underground lines have cellular access now yet Elizabeth line still doesn’t
In theory, trains do have wi-fi. You only realise how rubbish it is after having spent a lot of time accessing the service and then experiencing a lot of dropouts. If I'm on a journey of less than 15 minutes, I don't bother.
@@eattherich9215 I know you can connect to it but it never works outside the station lol. I just wait till the rain is at the station and even then it takes 100 years to connect.
@@TheValutOfEd really, it Should be a wi-fi hub and cellular repeater (or several) in the train, but the train should not be using regular wifi or cell service to connect to anything. There are a variety of viable ways of doing it, but every single one involves running wire from station to station down the tunnels and the trains connecting to That by various methods, the better of which shouldn't have connectivity issues at all (aside, perhaps, from bandwith limits if every single passenger on every single train in a given section is using it at once), and then connecting to the regular telecommunications network from the stations.
Sounds like they're trying to use dodgy wireless repeaters the whole way along instead.
End of 2024 there should be 4G/5G on the underground sections
@@laurencefraserThat makes sense, hopefully they sort it out but I doubt that anytime soon
It will be 25kv =25000volts,not 25kw .
Prince came up with the original idea for a purple train back in 1984. Being big into his train spotting (you could often find him on the platforms of Clapham Junction at the weekends with his notebook, sandwiches and anorak), he even wrote a song about it. Unfortunately, due to pressure from British Rail’s legal team, he had to rename the song before its release on the album, which also shared its new name. I don’t think he ever quite forgave BR after that. But his legacy lives on across London, thanks to TFL.
Short sets . Prince in mind.
@@davidsimms6609 well played, Sir. Well played.
Victoria has plenty of purple trains, and purple locos.
Isn't the joke (c) Geoff Marshall 😂
I have to say, the popularity of the Elizabeth line skyrocketed in such a short space of time.
When it first opened in 2022, I popped up to London to have a ride on it, and it was relatively quiet and seats were available. Flash forward a couple of months and ever since then, the times I've travelled on it (between Ealing Broadway and Farringdon) have almost always been standing room only.
It seems crazy that the service west of London is so much less than to Shenfield and Abbey Wood. Is it another case of the people whose job it is to predict usage yet again failing to get it right?
@@ricktownend9144 Indeed. It's only something like 2 trains per hour that call at Acton Mainline, but 3 or 4 per hour just one stop down the line at Ealing Broadway.
@@AFCManUk Is more than double. 4 trains per hour at Acton off peak and 8 trains per hour off peak at Ealing.
@@AFCManUk In part less at Acton Main Line because of need to keep GWR lines clear for their run into Paddington. Essentially the Ends of the Lines were kept at original service levels and didnt allow for the (already coming by new residential developments) increase in passengers - however dont the trains actually carry more passengers than the stock they replaced ?
If you build it, they will come.
"Long distance trains are more comfortable to sit in"
Jago: Proceeds to show footage of an IET
ZINGGG!!!! :D
IET is relatovely comfortable, except for GWR which got a seat downgrade
Lol
@@mudchute4dlr If only ALL trains had the comfy seats of the 158 and 159's out of Waterloo...sigh.
I have spent 6 hours on an IET and it wasn't too bad
Only Jago could do a Torchwood AND Thomas the tank engine jokes, and it works.
Quote of the Day: “You can’t trust trains to make difficult decisions. I’ve seen ‘Thomas the Tank Engine’.”
It would be possible to build a train so long that it would fill the whole length of the line. Passengers would walk through until they got to the station they wanted. Just think of the money saved on power.🤪
they could creep forward at station at a time with the rear in one station and the front in the next , rinse and repeat
The way the Elizabeth Line is set up as both a metro and commuter railway might be a bit unusual for the UK, but in Japan it’s pretty normal and commonplace, especially in bigger cities like Tokyo and Osaka. Over there, metro and commuter rail lines often have direct connections with each other, and there are often through-train interlined services between two or more lines. These different lines are also usually owned by different companies, and trains from these different companies would jointly operate on the combined through service.
Metro-style train cars are the “default” rolling stock for such train services from what I have observed, but more intercity-like trains are used on more premium, express/rapid variants of such services - for an extra fare, of course. Some of these trains look like regular metro-style trains, but are fitted with seats that can be rotated into either a longitudinal layout for running on regular services, or a transverse layout when running on such premium express/rapid services.
Personally, I believe such hybrid metro/commuter rail services/lines will become more commonplace around the world in the future, especially as cities expand and there’s a growing desire to ditch personal car ownership in favour of transit. Indeed, I think that, had London not put in the Green Belt project post-WWII and expanded greatly in a similar fashion to Tokyo back then, London might had more Elizabeth Line-like railway lines and services earlier.
There are similar lines in Paris and especially Germany too, although most in Germany don't have as much metro style traffic in their core section.
I would say that crossrail is much more similar to the RER in Paris, than to the Tokyo model.
Given that the English frequently go to Paris (even decision-makers), the first thing they see when arriving at Paris Gare du Nord are lines B and D (RER), and the transilien on the surface.
Crossrail/Elizabeth Line is a heavy RER or metro, quite close to the RER A and B in concept. Metro frequencies, but heavy and wide equipment (although limited to 2.77m wide, probably due to the historic lines)
The RER itself was partly born from the observation of the Sceaux line opened in 1860 (the southern part of line B), and the JR lines in Japan. But the difference is the central underground section at high speed (100kph)
Japan copied the concept by merging the Yokosuka and Sobu Line via a 9km tunnel in 1972.
The overground is quite similar to Line C (RER C) and the transilien is the closest thing to the suburban lines of South West Trains or Southern with a terminus at a surface station.
Love how you said in "theory they have wifi" the wifi shows up but never connects or allows you to access anything. Yet again classic TFL
It only works where there is cell service. So it's basically useless for Brits but makes sense for tourists when they finally start offering it
Same as GWR, there is WiFi, but it works at about 0.1mb. Essentially unusable.
My phone doesn't trust it because of SSL certicifate shenanigans, the station Wi-Fi is... better now I have a newer phone that plays with SIM authentication
@@dj_paultuk7052it probably has loads of bandwidth, shared around 250 people!
Great rolling stock. It runs at 25kV AC and has a nominal power of some 4.4MW
Canadian here, you did indeed pronounce Bombardier properly. It's a French Canadian name
Indeed, named for its founder, Joseph-Armand Bombardier, most famous for inventing the snowmobile.
amen, big fan of correct pronunciation.
One of my biggest peeves is people saying "chocliteer" for "chocolatier" (shocko-lah-tee ay)
So… how do you like that Bedard kid?
It got taken over so it...... bombed-oh-dear..... I'll go now...
I see, I thought it's a Brazilian name
Your inconsistency with imperial vs metric is perfectly consistent with the UK's consistent inconsistency on this matter. 🙂
"but the government are hesitant"...."only need 5 trains"...."may have to shut down production"..... proceeds to bang head on desk....why..why are we so incompetent in this country?! 😭
Probably not a 25kw supply. Thats a little over 30hp which would make it incredibly slow.
Yes, that's what I thought. 25 kV I suspect!!
@@brianfretwell3886you're correct, i noticed the slightly incorrect unit when he said it
slight correction to technical details- overhead power supply is 25 kilovolt, not 25 kilowatt
Indeed. 1A would do next to nothing, even at 25kV.
The video is informative and informed, quite up to your usual excellent standards. I'd add to your point about the light weight construction driving energy efficiency: it also allows faster acceleration, which is critical, especially on the Central London sections.
If the HSE were in charge of Sodor, then Thomas and friends would have been closed down years ago. The Large controller would be in prison.
Jago, all you have to understand about the privatised rail network is that it was designed to maximise shareholder returns with the minimum investment.
Yet has still brought about vastly more investment and higher passenger numbers than was ever the case under the wretched BR...
It seems you have very little notion of how much these private companies have actually invested.... Typically, without large investments, there are little returns to reap for shareholders.
@@richardharrold9736British Rail didn't stick us with the awful shuddering Pacers for far to bloody long. That was the private companies that did that.
@@Bacony_Cakes BR was the one that came up with the Pacers in the first place as a result of bankrupting itself with successive failed motive power modernisation programmes...
@@richardharrold9736 You may like to research that statement. BR investment in rolling stock was similar - or the same (depending on the year you take) than the investment by the ROSCOs since privatisation, and remember BR had to give it's rolling stock away to the ROSCOs for them to commence business with. It can be argued that the BR rolling stock passenger comfort factor was a significant level above that of the current stock.
I do agree the fundamental flaw with the Class 345 is that it's both too multipurpose, and not multipurpose enough. The mixed seating arrangement is nice, but causes issues in the core as there's a lot of shuffling at busy stations when getting off. Additionally the lack of luggage space for heathrow bound trains cause all sorts of issues with space, most notably with people unfamiliar with the line, with the doors opening on the right hand side in the core, and at heathrow, but on the left side out of the core, meaning doorways get blocked at busy times, leading to frustration for all.
I know that the Elizabeth line, at least in the core, can take trains up to 11 coaches long, its why all the core section stations are so long. I can't recall if the 345s have the capability to take 2 additional coaches but I think it would do wonders at peak times. Even if they're configured like each of the cab ends with only standing area, it would make sense as most passengers that use the end of the train are usually alighting in the core anyway to reduce walking time.
I think the best solution to the problem might be to re-jigger the timetable a bit. I don't have the data to justify but diversifying the journeys might result in better passenger flow. I don't know why half the services from shenfield terminate at paddington, and don't continue on to a destination further west that isn't Terminal 5. With the T5 train being the only service that goes through the core in that direction, it leads to it being cramped a lot, especially at peak times. There's a bay platform at Hayes and Harlington that could be used for this, and similarly I think there's an unused bay platform at Ilford that could be used similarly.
The Elizabeth line is the epitome of any British infrastructure project these days: it mostly works as intended, but becomes overstrained as it becomes the best option as older infrastructure pales in comparison. Hopefully Old Oak Common won't completely break the line.
Thats interesting , a half hourly Hayes-Ilford All stations might be useful , replacing the present AML stoppings , allowing faster trains from the West to immediately preceed them. This might mean changing trains ( something I dont really like ) but might be a way around the track capacity
The train length I think is currently constrained by the length of stations not on the core. They would have to either extend them to fit 11 car trains or deal with locking out two coaches at those stations, and the problems that causes.
Old Oak Common station will cause congestion issues, but all trains that currently terminate at Paddington will be extended there. The dedicated reversing siding will also make turnaround times much quicker, in theory, than the complicated method they currently use at Paddington.
The 345s are almost certainly never going to be lengthened to 11 cars. The main limiting factors are on the short platform stations on the East and West sections of the line. At Heathrow T4 the train wouldn't fit without blocking the points and limiting the station to only a single platform, and at Hanwell almost half of the entire train would be hanging off the end of the platform. Even in the central section, Paddington would require significant work for lengthening as the additional soft provisioned car lengths are actually beyond the end of the current platform; at Custom House the platforms are already shorter than the current trains by about a metre, and at Abbey Wood the crossover is again too close to the platform for any lengthening to be possible without re-laying the track. And that's without also considering that a number of PSDs would need to be relocated throughout the 8 subsurface stations that currently have them
They also don't have enough doors for the busy core.
The cars are pretty long, they should have 4 doors per side, not 3.
This would result in a similar door spacing to German S-Bahn trains
Someone might have mentioned this already, but there may be capacity restrictions on the main line out of Paddington. Partly GWR have some stopping trains, and there are also slow-moving freight trains from the depot near Acton Main Line. Would like to see more frequent trains here too
"You can't trust trains to make difficult decisions, I've seen Thomas the Tank Engine."
That one caught me off guard.
1:24 am i the only one to point out that you showed us a 196 and not a 730?
Same
I feel that more comparisons should be made between the Elizabeth line and Thameslink. Both have a core section running through a dedicated tunnel and both serve a bunch of towns outside London (west and east in the case of the former, and north and south in the case of the latter). Both are standing room only during busy periods.
I use both frequently and find Thameslink far more comfortable as long as I can find a seat. As an older gentleman, I also find the toilet essential. It is hit and miss whether I can make it from Farringdon to Reading without a mishap. You can recognise me - I'm the one making a dash for the loos as the train opens its doors at Reading station.
Thameslink, nice seats, lizzy line, numb bum seats.
@@xenon53827 nice would be a stretch. They are not usually very comfortable .
Was on the Elizabeth line yesterday it's such a wonderful experience travelling from Heathrow. Makes it hard to go back to the old tube trains
3:20 Yes it was! My god, for a while the new Elizabeth line trains were interjected with our old TFL ones and getting one of the new trains was a great feeling. Air Conditioned, spacious (the old 315's had a stupid seating arrangement that make peak time commuting a nightmare and off peak travel awkward).
I think we should be grateful that Bombardier got the contract and not Hitatchi. I thought Ground was a coffee....('Waiter! Waiter! This coffee tastes like mud!' Yes, Sir. It was only Ground ...never mind...). Really nice trains. Love the Liz Line.
going from a 40m commute on the central line to 15m on one of these has been an absolute godsend
From where to where?
@h.martinsmith7839 You can get from Stratford to Ealing Broadway on Elizabeth line in 29 minutes but on Central the same journey takes 50+ minutes... Also from ealing broadway to bond street in like 2-3 stops on elizabeth comapred to 11 on central...
When the trains were first introduced there were teething problems, the tannoy messages were far too loud and the air condition was sometimes set up far too high - to the point once in mid-summer I had to get off the train before my stop and walk the rest of the way just to warm myself up. This seems to mostly be fixed now. However the seats are among the least comfortable I have ever sat in and while the transverse seating may allow for more standing passengers they are not as popular, the forward facing seats always seem fill up first followed by the backwards facing seats.
Also, it would be better if there were more trains terminating at the above ground platforms at Liverpool Street since it is now very difficult to so get a seat on the through trains during the busy periods which never used to be a problem.
I believe that the Essex customers are not very well served by this new service in comparison to what we previously had, although I do accept that is not the experience for other users especially those from Kent.
Certainly scope for Brentwood-Romford-(All Stations) - Ilford-Stratford-Liv St alternating 15mins with Brentwood-Romford-Ilford-All Stations - Liv Street in peaks (to run Liv Street-Stratford-Barking-Barking Riverside (or Pitsea) if C2C wiring can take it) for shoppers
'Culture shock' is a good way to describe the difference between the old and frankly disgusting 315 stock and the new 345 stock.
The old trains that plied between Shenfield and Liverpool Street were dirty, smelly, festooned with litter and often graffiti. I can report that the new trains remain airy, clean and thankfully graffiti free, cleaners enter the train as soon as they have reached Shenfield.
I read an awful lot of guff about the state of Britain's railways, usually by people who never experienced the old broken-down British Rail and somehow believed it was a 'golden era' of railways; the Elizabeth Line proves that it is not beyond the wit of man to produce a clean, efficient commuter rail service fit for the 21st century.
The name Crossrail lives on in the form of Crosssrail Place at Canary Wharf. Love the roof garden.
was there today haha, noticed they still had Crossrail Place where the new line is
Ahh yes 00:15 I agree that the Elizabeth line is good and the trains are also comfy :D
How much did TFL pay you?
@@xenon53827 £-69
Have to say, these trains have the hardest seats trying to look like soft seats, I have ever experienced. They may as well be plain wood (carbon fibre? plastic?).
Still better than the central line
Was in London last fall. Took crossrail from and to the Airport. Great service. Fast, convenient and comfortable, even with Luggage.
I will say its a very long walk to the train from the airport terminal. Its all underground and relatively flat with elevators where needed, but with luggage it can be a trek. Also the station at the airport is clearly not new, and is small and dark. That could do with an upgrade.
Bought a GWR ticket to Windsor Castle, and somehow ended up on a crossrail train back into London. No issue there except there was no cell service in the station on arrival, and was unable to scan my GWR ticket to let us out of the station at Tottenham Court Road. Fortunately station staff were readily available to help, and let us out.
'I will say its a very long walk to the train from the airport terminal.' It's the same for every airport. I flew back to Gatwick from France last year and the walk from the terminal is nearly 15 minutes. I was beyond grumpy by the time I got down to the station platform.
No eticket scanning on TfL. The ticket was most likely only valid to Paddington, so they may have taken pity on you. Could have used contactless all the way though.
It's almost as though the people who design ("design", forsooth!) ground transport to airports have never thought about the people using it as passengers, with luggage. And as though the people who design airports (and they do design them) think of people using them as potential customers at all the airport concessions, and not passengers with luggage, and a need to find (and get to) the right gate.
@@eattherich9215 'It's the same for every airport.'
Schiphol (Amsterdam) is OK. From the terminal building, you take a lift downstairs, and you're on the platform.
The problem of Schiphol is that you have to walk an insane distance within the terminal itself; at least, we did last time we flew.
@@bigaspidistra Its was a to/from Paddington GWR ticket. But when we got off at Paddington, the station staff told us we could just get back on the Elizabeth line train to our final stop which was Tottenham Court road. So that might be what happened.
With all due respect, class 345 trains operate from a 25 kilo volt supply and have 20 motors totalling 5000 kilo watts of power.
Indeed. 1A wouldn’t be enough, even at 25kV.
Good news on the charging prospect. I’ve come across a train with newly fitted USB charging ports at the transverse seats. Hopefully they will be rolling this out to the entire line.
Proposed Airport (Heathrow) and City Line.
Jago your comments on the congestion on the new Elisabeth line trains are well made yet the northern main line terminals are not served and yet more passengers/congestion is to come. The below proposal may be of interest.
By way of background in the 60’s I attended High School in Hammersmith and in the 70’s I worked in a transport consultancy practice near Euston Sq. (ES) station, both accessed via the Met as it then was.
This was at the time when the practice was consulting with LT on extending the London Underground to Heathrow.
In short. At the time I recommended re-connecting the old Hammersmith and City Line (H&CL) to the high level District Line (DL) Grove Road station and then extending the DL into Heathrow.
To me the idea of extending a Tube line was ridiculous. This feeling had been reinforced by a recent experience with the then new large loading gauge rolling stock of the Toronto underground.
The six principal reasons for my recommendation were: -
1). The large number of existing DL & PL City commuters interchanging on to the H&CL via a main road crossing at Hammersmith Broadway.
2). The larger loading gauge this would make available for the ever-growing number of West London commuters on the lines affected.
3). The larger loading gauge would more comfortably accommodate the ever-growing number of airline passengers with luggage.
4). Provide a direct link from Heathrow to all North London Main Line rail terminals.
5). Provide a direct link to existing stop over hotel accommodation adjacent to the North London ML terminals.
6). Existing lack of capacity on the H&CL from Hammersmith into the City.
Fast forward to 2024
The old Hammersmith high level DL/HCL link land has been sold off.
Wide body aircraft (747 type) have become common place and the A380 went into production.
The Elizabeth Line (EL) has been opened through the West End, however it is still missing out Marylebone, Baker St, Euston ML, St Pancras and Kings Cross stations. It also seems to be running at standing room only and still with insufficient luggage space.
In addition, the EL connection to the north-west platforms of Paddington ML and the HCL interchange platforms leave much to be desired.
Heathrow arrivals still jam up the Piccadilly trains and subways.
Piccadilly line Congestion should ease with the new trains but not in the subways.
Conclusion
Taking the above into account (as a minimum) one must enquire as to the merits of providing a new Airport and City Line railway running from Heathrow via the EL rails to the Paddington HCL rails with:-
A) A step free interchange at Westbourne Park (large Bus Interchange, EL and HCL)
or
B) A cross platform change at Royal Oak (H&CL & EL only) then on to Aldgate or even Southend Airport.
Both the rails and the need exist.
This need will grow further if one considers the new runway proposed for Heathrow and potential HS2 inputs.
In addition, the proposed extension of the Euston Sq. Station platforms and its new exit alone will generate considerably more transits through Euston Sq. Station than it has today, even if Old Oak Common initially takes much Euston ML traffic.
(TFL research).
What is initially needed to make an Airport and City Line work physically.
In addition to the already proposed Euston Sq. works some platform length mitigation works will be required at both Edgware Rd and Baker St HCL platforms to take trains of equal length to the existing type, S8 trains, however I understand little construction work would be required to run S7 equivalent train sets.
Not ideal I agree as the problem is one of congestion.
As the existing Baker Street H&CL platforms 5 & 6 desperately need to be extended west, it is proposed that the platforms be extended to a new station access at Glentworth Street. Thus giving improved street access to Marylebone ML and the proposed new commercial developments to the west of Baker Street station along Marylebone Rd corridor.
This would also help relive interchange congestion within the original Baker Street platform triangle.
That said, it is probable that almost all H&CL platforms will need extension in the future and the extensions of the Euston Sq. and Baker Street platforms need to be regarded as part of an ongoing platform improvement program.
Obviously trains would need to have a suitable power train.
Someone pls let TfL see this
If, EL road availability around the entry to Paddington ML is a genuine problem as mentioned in some comments below suggest.
It should be noted that the ACL from Heathrow would also bypass the need for the extremely dangerous “Out of Station” interchange crossing of Hammersmith Broadway. Thus reducing the loading on H&CL trains between Hammersmith & Paddington and making the substitution of certain H&CL trains with ACL trains on TfL rails before Royal Oak a practical proposition.
I really enjoy your content @JagoHazzard. But just one thing, when I went on the Elizabeth line in January from Stratford to LHR T5, I saw USB charging ports on the forward/rearward facing seat walls. But I only saw 2 every car or something. There’s barely any of them but there are some
Look between the tip-up seats, near the gangways and between longitudinal seats. They're not always on both sides.
@@FarmYardGaming yeah. It’s mostly on one side. But the Elizabeth line does have power with USB compatibility but are hard to find.
@@CranehawkPilot They're not particularly fast either, it struggled to charge my phone but is worth trying again
I travelled from Gidea Park to Twyford with a bike and would make the following comments.
There isn't any space for bicycles, even the old trains into Liverpool Street had a space in every 4 car set, near the toilets (which as you point out don't exist)
There is wi-fi, but only out in the open. Once the trains dive under London the signal goes.
The platform service indicators above the doors are hopeless. Twice I have been waiting for a train and the indicators have shown "First train in 4 minutes - Second train in 1 minute"
Must TfL = Toilet-free Line..?
Am I the only person whose cat is also watching the video? 😸
It's nice to see British trains without the HIDEOUS orange bib. They look great!
Now retrofit them with toilets, power outlets and all-transverse seating, and we are talking.
I was on the first Elizabeth line commute from Abbey wood to Paddington. I still have the ticket. I was offered 2k from someone Australia for my ticket. No chance. It will be worth a fortune in years to come.
nothing more British than waiting just long enough to order new trains that its 20x more expensive and slower
There's the same problem regarding how the trains are designed in term of seatings and stuff with the RER in France... Probably because they cover more or less the same kind of transport : Subway like in Central Paris and suburban cummuter trains outside of Paris.
And in some cases it can takes 2 hours and a half to go from one end of the line to the other ( Looking at you the RER C ) which is longer than doing a Paris to Lyon travel in TGV.