Why does HS2 need to terminate at Euston?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 443

  • @alansutton2980
    @alansutton2980 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    Excellent video, both informative and constructive.
    The "6 minute" walk from Euston to St Pancras was mentioned more than once but for many it's more than 6 minutes or even impossible; and in foul weather when lugging a heavy suitcase it seems more like 6 hours. A weather-proof connection of one sort or another with either a moving walkway or light railway is absolutely necessary if anything is to be redeemed from this half-cocked design.

    • @fumiotsuki5027
      @fumiotsuki5027 หลายเดือนก่อน

      They should built the moving walkway type escalators that you can find in the airports to connect between Euston, St.Pancras and Kings Cross. It would be better to combine 3 of them together, and rename it to "London Euston Road".

  • @pleappleappleap
    @pleappleappleap หลายเดือนก่อน +265

    Not safeguarding the land between Euston and St. Pancras was quite incredibly short-sighted.

    • @etherealbolweevil6268
      @etherealbolweevil6268 หลายเดือนก่อน +35

      But quite profitable no doubt.

    • @pleappleappleap
      @pleappleappleap หลายเดือนก่อน +26

      @etherealbolweevil6268 Unfortunately, probably true, but leads to much greater expense in the long term.

    • @DeathInTheSnow
      @DeathInTheSnow หลายเดือนก่อน +20

      @pleappleappleap
      Yes, but they aren't in power any more, so they can blame the current guys, while also sitting on the sidelines talking about how costly it is. You know, like always.

    • @georgeprout42
      @georgeprout42 หลายเดือนก่อน +11

      ​@@DeathInTheSnowAt 02:08 "if there had been the political will 20 years ago..."
      So about halfway through Blair's tenure then? (1997-2007)

    • @alanrobertson9790
      @alanrobertson9790 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Don't you mean St Pancras - Kings Cross, much closer than Euston-St Pancras?

  • @EASYTIGER10
    @EASYTIGER10 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    This answered several questions/alternatives I'd considered for HS2 and explained why they were undesirable/impossible. Thank you.

  • @royalcurlaandia84
    @royalcurlaandia84 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Excellent video. I love the way you dealt with the future and all the planning and design issues but then still brought it back to a marvelous retinue of historic context. Bravo good sir.

  • @chieftandriver703
    @chieftandriver703 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    Wow, thanks for that. I used to be a police officer based at Kings Cross Rd and Caledonian Rd first but then in the early 80’s I moved to Kentish Town (E division of old and re codified as EK)
    I was based at the sub division of Albany St so covered that area. I barely recognise it. It had been quite run down with a large Bangladeshi community and simmering tensions between the long established Somerstown community.
    The next street up from Grafton Place was Doric Way where there was a traffic garage serving central London and where we would refuel our cars and vans and the fleet workshops where the cars were repaired or serviced. I think that has long gone. I learned a lot from your video I didn’t know like Polygon Rd’s origins.
    Not far from St Pancras Church was the old Coroners Court situated near the Gasometers.
    I guess that has also long gone.
    Thanks again. That was a real visit down memory lane

  • @pmichael73
    @pmichael73 หลายเดือนก่อน +44

    The fundamental problem was thinking about a "terminus" in the first place instead of an integrated system eventually linking Scotland with the continent. Trains could have been brought into to Stratford International where transfers could be made to St Pancras, or trains split. The other thing that politicians don't appreciate is that it will never be cheaper.

    • @noobling8313
      @noobling8313 หลายเดือนก่อน

      …but it can look cheaper this financial year.

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      What a load of utter nonsence, god it takes nigh on 6 to 8 hour from certain parts of Scotland to get to London, nevermind getting from London to Paris. It would be quicker by Air from Glasgow or Edinburgh and as of changing trains at Stratford International Eurostar trins do not stop there now and they do not split multiple unit like trins due to the complexity of thhe train wiring through the coaches.

    • @pmichael73
      @pmichael73 5 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@peterwilliamallen1063 You cannot think of a route like this in terms of terminus to terminus usage. Think of Thameslink - very few want go to the final destination from a distant one, but thousands use it for the stops in between.

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@pmichael73 I don't think you know much then about HS2, there are only 2 stops between Birmgham and London, one at Birmingham Interchange for Birmingham Airport and the other t Lodon OOC to interchange between othe line before terminting t London Euston s yes people will travel from Terminus, Birmingham Curzon Street/ Manchester Piccadilly to Terminus at London Euston.

    • @IshtarNike
      @IshtarNike 4 วันที่ผ่านมา

      ​@@peterwilliamallen1063but with a high speed train it wouldn't take that long... that's the point

  • @JonniePolyester
    @JonniePolyester หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    I heard an interview months ago with Rob Holden chief executive of HS1 on the Today Programme (Radio 4) as the decision to scrap the 2nd leg of HS2 was being made. He actually had put his name forward for HS2 way back but was told by ‘a senior civil servant’ he didn’t have the right experience for the post! Videos like this are invaluable.

  • @IamTheHolypumpkin
    @IamTheHolypumpkin หลายเดือนก่อน +85

    I at least hope, that they will construct tunnel provisions for a direct HS1 HS2 link.
    So in the case the plans are ever picked up again it can be constructed without disruption to HS2 or a complete rebuild to the tunnel between Old Oak Commons and Euston.
    Keep the option open, provisions never hurt.

    • @fndjfgsdk
      @fndjfgsdk หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      There are 4 tunnel stubs coming out the eastern end of OOC, two for Euston and two more stubs for future use, potentially as an HS1 link.

    • @x_zschannel
      @x_zschannel หลายเดือนก่อน +19

      I think the reason why is because it costs £700m and they think that the demand for regional Eurostar won't be enough to justify the link. Whilst I think a lot of people outside of London would want to take the train to Europe instead of drive to a port or get on a flight (including myself), it would be too expensive for most people for a regional Eurostar ticket. If I wanted to go to Paris, Brussels or Amsterdam, I have to fly, because taking a train down to London and another Eurostar is too expensive.
      So the regional Eurostar and hs1-hs2 link could exist if our trains were actually affordable

    • @etherealbolweevil6268
      @etherealbolweevil6268 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

      But such things only benefit people in the Midlands and North. No benefit to London. Can't be allowed.

    • @Croz89
      @Croz89 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      @@x_zschannel The problem is that Birmingham and Manchester are both so much smaller than London. If they were bigger, there would be enough demand for a link. I imagine they'd probably put a couple of through platforms next to the XR2 station (if/when it gets built) so the trains could serve double duty as domestic services to (nearly) Euston. As it stands I don't think many people from the north will want to travel by train to the continent if it means changing in London. A few business travellers from companies that want to flex their green credentials, but for leisure, without the link flying is going to be the most convenient option by far.

    • @86pp73
      @86pp73 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

      ​@@x_zschannel Even without connections to the continent, it's still a high-speed link to the South East of England that bypasses Central London, plus connections to commuter towns in Essex and the wider East via interchange at Stratford. Building it would relieve the pressure on TfL caused by travellers having to move between disparate London terminals to get between the South East and the rest of the UK by train, and generally make Kent, East Sussex and Essex a lot more connected with the rest of the country. £700m is very justifiable when you consider those kinds of benefits

  • @MrTudwud
    @MrTudwud หลายเดือนก่อน +32

    The problem is not HS2, it is (and always has been) HS1. Choosing St Pancras as the terminus plus the route via Stratford was ridiculous. I was at the meeting in Manchester where it was announced and I got massive criticism there for questioning the route. The Chairman of the Company, Ove Arup, (now Arup) was there alongside many MPs and dignatories. He gave a speech outlining the route and how his Company was involved. When he had finished and was taking questions from the audience, I asked him why a route from London to the South East (Folkestone) should start out in a northerly direction, turn due east, then south east alongside the c2c (LTS) line and, finally, head in the direction it should have taken from the off. Knowing the answer, I asked where Arup was based (Stratford) and I maintained that this was the sole reason for St Pancras to be chosen with a so-called "International" station to be built in Stratford along with a brand new shopping centre. I asked what interest Arup had in any of these initiatives and was physically jeered and booed by the audience. So we got St Pancras International, an "international" station at Stratford that has never seen a chunnel train stop there in normal service; an "international" station at Ebbsfleet (same as Stratford) and a now closed Ashford International. Arup did very well out of all this and also cashed in on the Olympic Village, Crossrail and HS2 itself among many other new ventures in the Startford area. That is why almost every London transport "improvement" appears to have "Stratford" somewhere in its vocabulary. Tying in an HS2 kink with St Pancras was always going to be next to impossible for many reasons and that's why it never happened.

    • @azuma892
      @azuma892 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      That being said, what about having HS2 end at Stratford instead of Euston?

    • @mbatatok-tokngogo2711
      @mbatatok-tokngogo2711 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@azuma892 Firstly Stratford is not in central London, so it would be much the same as ending it at Old Oak Common.
      Secondly, HS2 is approaching from a westerly direction and Stratford is in East London.

    • @maoschanz4665
      @maoschanz4665 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@mbatatok-tokngogo2711 that was a joke...

    • @DaveSeville-sf1ku
      @DaveSeville-sf1ku หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​​​@@mbatatok-tokngogo2711 Why not do Old Oak Common Euston and Stratford whilst they are building Euston. So have HS2 terminate in Old Oak Common but also run to Stratford in the East, whilst Crossrail 2 and HS2 rebuild Euston and give it a facelift.
      So it serves London West: Old Oak Common
      London East: Stratford International to alleviate pressure on the Elizabeth Line coming from the West from places like Heathrow Airport. Stratford International is very close to Stratford on the Elizabeth Line

    • @DaveSeville-sf1ku
      @DaveSeville-sf1ku หลายเดือนก่อน

      What proof do you have of Arup owning land in Stratford/Olympic Park or having HQ there.
      I do understand your point wouldn't a London to Kent train be cheaper if you ran it through Lewisham or somewhere SE London let's say.

  • @timoakley277
    @timoakley277 หลายเดือนก่อน +22

    Nice analysis. It just shows ho bedeviled we are by our lack of ling term planning or vision.

  • @andrewwilks
    @andrewwilks หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really enjoyable and informative video. Especially love the historical background and the maps! Great work.

  • @john1703
    @john1703 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thanks for the memories. I was there as a student in 1969-72. I remember the Harrier rising up from the coal yard, as part of the Daily Mail race to New York.

  • @Andrewjg_89
    @Andrewjg_89 หลายเดือนก่อน +54

    I do believe that HS2 is vital for the UK and for the North of England to have a high speed railway line that would make journey times lot quicker than normal train services that takes hours. And would cut down on delays and to help relieve the congestion when travelling on trains.

    • @ijstock
      @ijstock หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Average time from Paris to London on Eurostar is about 2 1/2 hours. A direct train to Birmingham with a short stop in central London would be only about an hour more. Well within the travel time envelope that attracts custom on the continent.

    • @melissareohorn7436
      @melissareohorn7436 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@jdchsdjhj it will nearly half the journey time

    • @SuttieTheFan
      @SuttieTheFan หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      They would be better served by increased track capacity where the bottle necks exist and re-establishing previously closed lines to create better paths across the country

    • @jakewynn
      @jakewynn หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@ijstock the justification for hs2 is that apparently the wcml is full. If the TOCs could actually run reliable services it would be more than fine.

    • @ijstock
      @ijstock หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@jakewynn Maybe at the moment. Have you heard of "the future" - and the need to do something to cut carbon emissions in it? By getting people out of their cars and lorries off the roads for a start.

  • @justifyles
    @justifyles หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Great analysis. Purely from a UX perspective, you can imagine a series of escalators at Euston station leading up to an elevated crossing, with clear signage that could be seen from anywhere in the station. Could make an otherwise annoying commute fairly straightforward and inviting.

  • @Titot182
    @Titot182 หลายเดือนก่อน +65

    Euston, we have a problem

    • @johnmunro4952
      @johnmunro4952 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Ha ha nice

    • @erikthenorviking8251
      @erikthenorviking8251 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Euson Station, Automation,
      Hypnotising earwigs with a billiard cue,
      Noel Coward, Frankie Howerd,
      Half a pound of treacle and the same to you!
      (Marty Feldman, "The B Side")

  • @Nick-zp3ub
    @Nick-zp3ub หลายเดือนก่อน +34

    They should have started building hs2 in northern England and worked their way down. Even if it was never completed the line could be reused to connect Birmingham with Sheffield, Manchester and Newcastle. Possibly even Scotland

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

      Why don't people like your self realise in major transport construction they do not start building from one end only, HS2 has been constructed the whole length of the line other wise it would not of been built at all

    • @rogerphelps9939
      @rogerphelps9939 หลายเดือนก่อน +13

      ​@@peterwilliamallen1063Wrong. Only phase 1, the part south of Birmingham, has commenced

    • @rhysrail
      @rhysrail หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@peterwilliamallen1063while they don’t build from one end they are funded in phases

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@rhysrail I know they don't build from one end but build the whole track alighnment in sections at the same time, mate I live in Birmingham and have been watching them build it and it has funding mate as you can see the HS2 construction work going on all the way from Birmingham Curzon Street South to London Euston and North as far as Handsacre in North Staffordshire

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@rogerphelps9939 It is being constructed all the way from Birmingham Curzon Street to London OOC and London Euston and from Birmingham North to Handsacre in North Staffordshire, I think you need to take a better look at HS2

  • @andrewrobinson7641
    @andrewrobinson7641 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I first travelled from St Pancras to Sheffield in 1986 when it was a quiet and horribly dirty London terminal station.
    How times have changed! So many stations are now architectual marsterpieces!

  • @GaryJohnWalker1
    @GaryJohnWalker1 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Always good, but this is an exceptional episode. Great review, especially of the enigmatic Somerstown

  • @DeathInTheSnow
    @DeathInTheSnow หลายเดือนก่อน +43

    I hate that I can get to the Czech Republic faster than I can get to Scotland, from London, all because we're so scared of trains these days.
    "Oh no! Don't take the cars away! They're so freeing, and fast!" - a common complaint of those perpetually stuck in traffic, who think the best solution to _end_ traffic is to bulldoze parks, pavements, and houses for another lane of cars.

    • @samuelmelton8353
      @samuelmelton8353 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      In Salisbury there is a nice mural of a row of traditional shops and homes - which were demolished to make way for half a ring-road - and the painting now exists under a bridge on that half-a-ring-road where those houses once sat.
      What's worse, is that it is often those of a confused, supposedly 'traditionalist' bent, whether apathetic, Tories, or Reform, who love seeing things destroyed for a little bit more road.

    • @mawo-z6r
      @mawo-z6r หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      I mean, it only takes 4h20m to get from London to Edinburgh by train. Good luck getting to Prague in that time.

    • @50upss
      @50upss หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      Yes, I don't know why people seem to think that a railway need's to be profitable, the profit comes from increased efficiency and connecting more regions. We don't expect that roads make money, in fact, roads cost us billions of pounds each year.
      Also, the government hates subsidising railways, but are very happy to subsidise air and road travel, it's really sad.
      edit: you can't get to Czechia faster than Scotland, by train it's ~4 hours to Scotland and ~16 hours to Czechia. And flying is ~1.25 hours to Scotland and ~2 hours to Czechia

    • @andybeckman8606
      @andybeckman8606 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Presumably you have not seen the trashing of West London for HS2, the trashing of Kings Cross for HS1, the trashing of Tottenham Court Road station environs for "Crossrail" or indeed the trashing of large sections of Victoria just to enlarge the Underground station (a job which took longer than WW2 to complete). Your ignorance of reality obsesses you with cars to the extent that you are blinded to the fact that road-building occurs with a focus on commercial and goods traffic to and from locations inside and outside of urban areas where building railways to each front door would require even bigger tracts of land being trashed than are for the roads because lorries have tighter turning circles than trains. Does it not occur to you that the reason we need road traffic to serve the people of London is because there is no provision on the railways being built for goods or freight trains and that one could just as easily say that "a common complaint of those perpetually stuck in overcrowded trains who think the best solution to end backing up is to bulldoze parks, pavements, and houses for another line of railways." Let's face it, the Jubilee Line was built to relieve the Central Line then the Elizabeth Line was built to relieve both. Thanks to the anti-car attitudes in London, London roads are now congested by black cabs, Ubers and a plague of home delivery and multi-drop vans, none of which carry goods or passengers on trips which could be conveyed by rail because there are no rails and the nearby rails of those who live or work near them cannot be used for goods because they were built for overwhelming numbers of passengers. The problem with rail building is that those who propose it have this obsession with those who drive and "encouraging" them to use the railways yet at the same time justify themselves by saying that this line or that line is overcrowded and need relief without seeing their own self-conflation.

  • @TheBlackRangerPL
    @TheBlackRangerPL หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Brilliant video, straight to the point and very informative. Thank you!

  • @jamesreed3845
    @jamesreed3845 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    As a Somers Town resident, I love this video (and would be rather bemused by a monorail flying past my flat!)

  • @YinandYangandGreen
    @YinandYangandGreen หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    An informative and entertaining video indeed.
    My vote is for a cut and cover tunnel with travelators for the 600m between Euston and St Pancras. The most logical route is under Phoenix Road and Brill Place. Perhaps the existing drain/sewer under Phoenix Road that was mentioned could by rebuilt to one side of the travelator tunnel? Construction costs should be moderate given the relatively short length, low depth and lesser costs associated with cut and cover construction down existing roads. The alternative of an elevated monorail would be much more intrusive to local residents and therefore likely attract considerable opposition.
    Ideally a travellator tunnel should also provide a convenient connection between St Pancras and Kings Cross stations.

  • @azuma892
    @azuma892 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    I don't get Britain's obsession with big terminal stations that end in buffers...

  • @EdgyNumber1
    @EdgyNumber1 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    *OLD OAK COMMON is for transfers to* east and west routes, including Stratford and Heathrow. (Lizzy Line)
    *EUSTON is for transfers to* north and south routes (Northern Line.)
    _That was they original plan._

    • @x_zschannel
      @x_zschannel หลายเดือนก่อน

      Rip northern line. And crossrail 2, its only hope won't come for another 20 years at least

    • @etherealbolweevil6268
      @etherealbolweevil6268 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      What gets my goat is that everything/everybody has to go through London, and there are no through routes through London worthy of the name. You always end up standing next to the service disruption display, walking the full length of a terminus station three times (with luggage) to find a viable connection to your next terminus station. The whole "Cross Country" rail concept has been irreparably broken.

    • @mattpotter8725
      @mattpotter8725 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@etherealbolweevil6268I agree, though I think getting to places like Kent you always had to do this, in modern, post Victorian times at least.

  • @Garfie489
    @Garfie489 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Personally, i feel HS2 should have linked up to HS1 at Stratford International (ill call Stratford HS). You could then terminate the trains in Stratford HS and Old Oak common, with possible extensions to Ebbsfleet etc.
    This has two huge benefits.
    Firstly - Stratford HS now has a purpose. You end up with a major High speed hub in the East and West of the city, both linked to the Elizabeth line. Euston may be better connected, but also it must have been more expensive to redevelop.
    Secondly - You can then connect the Heathrow and Stansted Express's directly to this line. Making a London Airport express serving Heathrow, Old Oak Common, Stratford, then Stansted via Harlow, Bishop Stortford, etc.

    • @mattpotter8725
      @mattpotter8725 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Whilst I do agree with this it would still need a Central London terminus as well. I'm just thinking of the times and places I've lived in London, in Hammersmith and Crouch End and ending up at Old Oak Common or Stratford would have been a total nightmare, just as it was getting to Paddington to get the GWR so this isn't really a solution, it's in addition to I think. I do agree though that HS2 should definitely link to HS1.

    • @ijstock
      @ijstock หลายเดือนก่อน

      ...and what's more, much of the engineering/maintenance infrastructure at Temple Mills could have been expanded and used to service and store both fleets.

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      All this is absolute rubbish, when people from the Midlands and the North travel to London, they want to get off at Euston, not Stratford

    • @Garfie489
      @Garfie489 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@peterwilliamallen1063 and why do they want to get off at Euston?
      What's in Euston that appeals to them so greatly?
      They more than likely want an onward connection, which both Old Oak and Stratford provide.

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@Garfie489 No when we get off at Euston we have access to Bus routes and the Tube, there is no reson for ust to go to Stratford, the only Stratford we are likely to go to is where the Bard used to live on the River Avon, nothing in Euston. it how things have been done for over 100 years, but what is at Stratford East London that appels to Midlanders and Northerners nothing.

  • @MrBubba59
    @MrBubba59 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Enjoyed the video. Re HS1-HS2 link: London based decision makers had a good excuse "not to" when the 'low cost' airlines arrived. There would not be enough demand from "the north" full stop. The interests of Camden council were seen as more important than providing the convenience of through travel to Europe from the rest of GB, and as they are effectively firewalled in London, the benefits of both new railways will largely accrue to South East England. Huge numbers in the north of England voted for Brexit which again played into the hands of those whose only ambition for HS2 is for a belated WCML relief, using UK gauge trains.

  • @janeknight3597
    @janeknight3597 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The Elizabeth Line is at full capacity coming out of London between 16:00 and 19:00. Trying to get to Reading is a nightmare because folks that work in the city fill the trains completely to Hayes. I imagine the situation in the morning rush hours would be the same.

  • @Anonymoususer_8823
    @Anonymoususer_8823 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    There were plans to link HS2 and HS1 just north of St. Pancras International and King’s Cross but that has been cancelled due to high costs. I understand that London Euston is going through a massive reconstruction and to be rebuilt because of HS2. And with more extra platforms to be built.

    • @1fourcore
      @1fourcore หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Ramps were built when hs1 was done.only the tunnel wasn't

  • @TangoMikeLima
    @TangoMikeLima หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Lovely video, thanks. I have visited the Old St Pancras Churchyard a couple of times, paying homage to Mary Wollstonecraft, nice place.

  • @herschell64
    @herschell64 หลายเดือนก่อน +17

    It's a pity they won't consider reinstating the cancelled section to Scotland as it could have been a faster link to up this end of the country

    • @melissareohorn7436
      @melissareohorn7436 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      it was never planned to go to scotland

    • @HowardStephens-t3r
      @HowardStephens-t3r 2 วันที่ผ่านมา

      If you mean the Golborne Link, I quite agree.

  • @domtweed7323
    @domtweed7323 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Don't have a London terminus. Run the trains straight through, under, to the south coast (or maybe HS1). Cheaper land with more connectivity.

    • @samuelmelton8353
      @samuelmelton8353 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      What lol. Would be very inconvenient for people going to London.

    • @domtweed7323
      @domtweed7323 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @samuelmelton8353 You'd still have London stations, but they'd be through stations (like Thameslink). You'd get more London stations with less expensive central London land.

    • @samuelmelton8353
      @samuelmelton8353 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@domtweed7323 Sorry, I see. Yeah, maybe this could work.

    • @domtweed7323
      @domtweed7323 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @samuelmelton8353 Na, it's my fault for not being clear.

  • @JohnCarrick-s2u
    @JohnCarrick-s2u หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I live in Kent. Eurostar does now NOT stop in either Ebbsfleet or Ashford. We are also getting a 'Lower Thames Crossing ' ....only for roads. Why not adding a rail tunnel. We have Eurostar/HS1. sharing the same line which could link to link to HS2 and.......an extended Eurostar service to the Midlands and the North, gosh.......even to Scotland. Now would that be something

  • @ijstock
    @ijstock หลายเดือนก่อน +24

    You couldn't make it up! The short-sightedness and London-centricity of this country (or at least its governments) never ceases to stagger me. Thanks for your well researched video - but there were other things to consider. For a start, that 600m gap is not only between HS1 and HS2, it a 600m gap on the route between the north of England and the South of France and beyond in terms of high-speed rail. Thought of like that, it becomes even more ridiculous. You would have done well to compare the proposed solutions with the kind of infrastructure being built on the continent - that would have shown up how utterly inadequate the compromise plans really are. Secondly, there is the issue of economies of scale and wider connectivity to consider. HS2 being completely separate means there is no possibility of using the same rolling stock, maintenance facilities, bulk future orders etc - everything needs to be duplicated, adding to the cost. And even allowing for the Home Office's reluctance to make life easy for people travelling to/from the continent, how about the synergies between the north and south of London? You would effectively end up with Crossrail 3 by linking the two. But people can't see beyond London (in the same way that Crossrail 1 should have been about East Anglia to Bristol/South Wales, not just a London shuttle; it happens elsewhere...). The best solution is your last one - that was proposed by a consortium some years back - but by now it should be well underway. What's more, through stations don't need to be as big as termini because dwell times are much shorter. And as for 'no demand', there was very little demand for rail travel from London to the continent by way of the old boat trains - until Eurostar opened. The demand is there, just as it is for similar journeys on the continent - it just can't be seen.

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      A very detailed and considered response - thanks!

    • @x_zschannel
      @x_zschannel หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      The low demand is the cost aspect, not the want prospect. It's much cheaper to fly than to take at least two trains. If the trains were affordable there would certainly be enough demand, however it is just too expensive for regular business commuters and holiday makers as of now

    • @pauledwards2817
      @pauledwards2817 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Outside of the largest urban areas and south east rail travel is not run in any way to be a public service or create economic change. The idea of £160 to get to London from north of Birmingham before lunch is just not on because the capacity is limited they price people off the service. We don’t need a London link, we need better connections in the north to the north. Hs1 got built off course and all the work around London will get completed and a new Euston while the likes of Crewe look derelict.

    • @ijstock
      @ijstock หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@x_zschannel That's something of a circular argument - grow demand and you can cut prices. There are also political decisions to be made - for example the level of access charges (on HS1) which are far higher than on the continent and which push fares up - and fares policy more generally. Trains tend to be a more pleasant experience than planes - and that's before we consider the sustainability aspect.

    • @ijstock
      @ijstock หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@pauledwards2817 That is a matter of national outlook and economic priorities, not some kind of natural inevitability. I quite agree, an entirely different mindset is needed but maybe the wind is starting to move slightly in a better direction? You may not need a 'London link' - but you *do* need a better Europe Link. The simple fact is, in the bigger geo-economic scheme of things, the north of Britain is an even more remote and marginal area than the south of this island, and the only way to counter that is to tie it more closely to Europe's economic heartlands. Which is not to say better intra-regional transport is not needed: you need both, and the synergy they would create.

  • @101engineer
    @101engineer หลายเดือนก่อน

    5:44 to 6:10 why was the Camden Town link too difficult and expensive? Please could you elaborate. Putting cost to one side, is this still a possibility please?

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It was because of the immense disruption of the proposed tunnelling to the local community above

    • @meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2
      @meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It was due to the imbalance between how much it would cost, and the relatively low percentage of passengers wanting to go to Europe.

  • @MostlyLoveOfMusic
    @MostlyLoveOfMusic หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    St pancras would have been ideal, but nothing related to hs2 is close to ideal

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 11 วันที่ผ่านมา

      St Pancras would not of been idel for what is basicaly a West Coast Hi Speed line, there is no room at St Pancras for another Hi Speed train services concidering unlike Euston would be operating at High Speed from Euston, from St Pancras it would of had to trundle across London, not only that but London St Pancras International has half the station allocated for Euro Star Service to Europe, the South West Javeline Services to Kent and Midland Main Line trains to the North East

  • @ffrederickskitty214
    @ffrederickskitty214 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    A visitor from another planet wouldn’t believe that railways were invented in the UK, such has been the lack of joined-up thinking in successive governments

  • @jiml6026
    @jiml6026 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    1:37 “Allowing journeys between Birmingham and Brussels to be a doddle.” 😢 What a missed opportunity!

    • @sihollett
      @sihollett หลายเดือนก่อน

      Would have been a change at both Interchange and Lille if using an avoid-Euston/St Pancras HS1-HS2 link (which, would you given that Euston-St Pancras is only one change?). Every train was Manchester/Leeds - Paris (stopping everywhere and so no quicker than changing in London, and less frequent) - any serving of central Birmingham would deny that train going further north, which was a political no no.

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@sihollett If this ever came about which it won't, why would you require to change trains at Birmingham Interchange and Lille, they would of been direct train services

  • @christopherbentley7289
    @christopherbentley7289 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    It was quite surprising to me that Euston and St. Pancras are that close to each other, but a link of sorts might be advantageous, say, a transparent-walled raised 'trottoir roulant', as the French say, to reflect the historic links with that country, along the alignment of that people mover, but a more simply constructed solution. Thank you for that historical background, BTW.

    • @etrur2595
      @etrur2595 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There's 3 different major stations within a walking distance to each other and 2 of them share a tube station. how they fail to connect HS2 to the Eurostar I'll never know

    • @juleswombat5309
      @juleswombat5309 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yep we should get out and walk to get some exercise. Stuck on a Train for two hours, a good walk for fresh air and exercise.

    • @50upss
      @50upss หลายเดือนก่อน

      ppl are too lazy nowadays to walk even half a kilometer

    • @sihollett
      @sihollett หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@50upss Yet the case for the HS1-HS2 link needed, in order to justify the expense, over a train load of passengers each hour (out of 6 trainloads - 3 per direction. ie about 1 in 4 or 5 passengers using the link) using it get off at Stratford International and walk a slightly shorter distance to the main Stratford station to get to destinations in East London and the Docklands slower than if they took the Elizabeth line from Old Oak Common. Obviously the straw clutching modelling had no one walk between Euston and St Pancras despite it being a similar distance.
      There's little demand for HS1-HS2 trains and only a handful of destinations could be served both directly and quasi-frequently (so most North-Continent passengers would have to change despite the through trains). HS2 passengers would be far better served by a moving walkway that linked all the Euston destinations with all the KXSP destinations - providing them with easy access to the more useful destinations out of St Pancras like Croydon and Cockfosters as well as the cooler-sounding ones like Paris and Lille.

  • @ricktownend9144
    @ricktownend9144 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Thanks for this explanation - and for the very interesting walk through Somers Town, which shows, I think, what might be the consequence if even only 5% of a 400metre HS2 train (and there might end up being 18 of them every hour) decided to walk on this route between Euston and St Pancras. There is one option for HS2 at the London end whch you don't list, and which I'm not even sure the official planners have considered, which is to use the line to kick off a proper review and plan for all the rail lines which terminate around the edge of central London. I have to say the idea of a mega-station at KXSP is scary: why do planners have the idea that people love the airport experience? Over much of mainland Europe rail termini arebeing discarded in favour of through stations, but one big station in London would be too large and complex, so how about a triangle of stations - maybe City, West End and Southbank? - each through line would stop at two of these, giving one-change connections to all the other through lines (real competition for the M25). HS2, approaching from the west, would stop at OOC, West End and City, and if it went on to or via Stratford it could still connect easily with HS1, as well as with the SE expresses to east Kent. Expensive - yes; but so it seems is Euston, which will not be properly finished until Crossrail 2 is built. And with four London stops, at places with good local connections and where people want to go anyway, the load will be spread.
    Look forward to your next video

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน

      I also couldn’t have imagined the huge congestion transferring from the mega station down to the Underground! It was considered very originally but dismissed quickly

  • @arthur1670
    @arthur1670 หลายเดือนก่อน

    5:54 why is it no longer possible, the link ?

  • @Mat_64
    @Mat_64 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The cancellation of the interconnection between HS1 and HS2 is shame, it could have routed some domestic services through (Birmingham-Old Oak Common-Stratford International -Ashford International), that could offer some relieve to St Pancras (International) and Euston stations as well as to the lines/servicing feeding them.
    Reopening the Eurostar facilities at Ebbsfleet International or Ashford International could make it a better fit for transfer for trains to the continent. As an alternative direct trains from Birmingham to the continent could make a stop in Stratford International so you can relief St Pancras a bit and finally honour the International suffix of Stratford International. Paris did get an interconnection LGV between LGV Nord and (almost) all other Paris terminating LGV's.

    • @teran1237
      @teran1237 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It seems UK Government and Network rail did not learn from France and SNCF Reseau to build HS lines and network.

    • @sihollett
      @sihollett หลายเดือนก่อน

      There's no space on HS2 for that unless you divert trains away from the destination that ~70% of people want (Euston) - which would make the other trains busier, as well as less reliable due to the reverse branching.

  • @JelMain
    @JelMain หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The exact route ran behind the Camden Stables, connecting to the Overground, which is overloaded as it is. It can still run underground.

  • @frankreeves4everxx
    @frankreeves4everxx หลายเดือนก่อน

    with some shenanigans around primerose hill junction, you could possibly connect HS2 to HS1, HS1 is already connected to the north london line, dig up old primerose hill station platform, to create an drop, enter the tunnel of the up empty carrage line (abandoned) and head north an littleway, i could connect to the HS2 tunnel

  • @loftlegacy
    @loftlegacy หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I usually just walk between EUS and STP via Euston Road which is one of London’s worst maintained footpath. The surface is all over the place.
    The big bonus of the route is a pint in The Rocket!

  • @martinhowe1422
    @martinhowe1422 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fantastic effort, thank you. FYI there is an easily web accessible image of the Old Church and the River Fleet showing how close the two actually were.

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Just across Pancras Road from each other!

  • @dsds3968
    @dsds3968 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I recognise that map at 01:48. I have a web link to it. It's a geographically accurate representation of the various rail routes in London.

  • @simonbennett9687
    @simonbennett9687 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Absolutely no way would the Elizabeth line have been routed via Kings Cross. If it had it would not have relieved the Central line which was a key purpose. The answer for Kings Cross and connecting it with Euston was then and still is, Crossrail 2.
    Also, it’s the line capacity that is by *far* the biggest issue for running HS2 trains onto the Elizabeth line and should have been mentioned first. Crossrail was built for a 30tph service and all the paths that aren’t currently used will be needed in future for Elizabeth line increased service.

  • @101engineer
    @101engineer หลายเดือนก่อน +11

    So the same engineers who designed both HS1 and HS2, incredibly forgetting the 600m bit between the two of them, rather than being berated for their error, are now earning massive fees to provide sticky-plaster options to span the gap?

    • @biscuit715
      @biscuit715 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

      The engineers design what they're told to. It's not their fault government didn't want it.

    • @ChrisCooper312
      @ChrisCooper312 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You can't blame the HS1 designers. They designed HS1 to provide good connections to the north and west by bringing it out next to the North London Line that gives direct access to the WCML and GWML. This would also have provided easy connection to any future high speed lines to the north or west. It was entirely on HS2 that wasn't designed for any connection to HS1.

  • @thisis_mudchute
    @thisis_mudchute หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    when it opens, it would be cool if heathrow ex could start at terminal 5, mid-turnaround at old oak common and continue to birmingham and whatever. not going to happen, but ot would give heathrow express a purpose. oh, and i dint think the 387s are suited for that route, so maybe new rolling stock like long-distance desiros or something

  • @NorthernMonkeeUK
    @NorthernMonkeeUK หลายเดือนก่อน

    The HS1 to HS2 link through Camden being cancelled due to the "disruption" it'd cause... Have they seen the amound of disruption HS2 is causing throughout the rest of the route? Or is this just another case of "Not on my doorstep" as it wouldn't be beneficial to London?

  • @superspeedfrigate52
    @superspeedfrigate52 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The Victoria and Northern lines are already FULL during peak hours. Where are the extra passengers going to go?

  • @justwobert9850
    @justwobert9850 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i always wonder why there wasn't a proposal for a station on the brownfield site north of kings cross st pancras. not necessarily as the main station but as one for a number of services onto Europe

    • @justwobert9850
      @justwobert9850 หลายเดือนก่อน

      or even ignoring that, to allow for XC services from Kent to the north

  • @minimaxi802
    @minimaxi802 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The Victorians built three London stations in close proximity within 1000 metres, Euston, St Pancras and Kings Cross. There is no land in the area to build an extended station at Euston for HS2 without demolishing buildings. Old Oak common is on the Paddington line but very near the Euston line. A passenger tunnel with flat escalators is proposed between Euston and Kings Cross stations.

    • @laurencecox2657
      @laurencecox2657 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The reason for all the separate London stations so close together was that they were all built by different railway companies and then, as now, you had to have an Act of Parliament to build a railway, e.g. High Speed Rail (London - West Midlands) Act 2017. It really precludes any logical transport planning.

  • @pa9365
    @pa9365 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I get that St Pancras vant have new platforms, but surely you could convert existing ones and just move those services to Euston?

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      The old platforms at London St Pancras International Station are for Eurostar Services and Kent Coast high speed commuter trains and the new platforms are used by East Midlands trin Services up to Deerby, Sheffield and Leeds so no room for HS2 services

  • @user-fp6dt1os1l
    @user-fp6dt1os1l หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I think some of the technological / infrastructure reasons you gave against integrating HS2 with other stations are not that important, as they assume things about HS2 which could have just been decided differently if they wanted to ensure the integrations were possible. The station capacity, and service pattern constraints, were surely the main reason. Being in the same place as the terminus of the existing trains which go to the same part of the country is also a major advantage when it comes to dealing with disruption.

  • @christopherweeden9298
    @christopherweeden9298 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Was consideration ever given to electrifying the Chiltern Main Line?

    • @lesfawcett5245
      @lesfawcett5245 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

      A few years ago, Network Rail proposed an "electric spine" that would electrify the existing route from Southampton docks to the WCML at Nuneaton, for freight. This would have electrified much of the Chiltern line and may have lead to the rest of the Chiltern being electrified.

  • @seanbrady6731
    @seanbrady6731 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I can't agree with you on the distances. 600m booking office to booking office may be accurate. But I've always had to walk at least 300m up platforms at St Pancras and a similar distance at Euston HS2 would give 1.2km. Nasmyth's rule at 3km/h is more appropriate for estimating the walking speed of a loaded individual negotiating heavily trafficked footways with obstacles. So your 6 minute walk will actually be more like 24 minutes. Add in the time cost of unfamiliarity with long platform walks and I'm advising people to allow 30-45 minutes for transfer from HS1 to HS2.

  • @davidhoughton2073
    @davidhoughton2073 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm seeing a lot of talk about trying to "connect" Euston and St Pancras stations. They're practically on the same road, can't we just take the pavement?

  • @ezrasantos
    @ezrasantos หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    why not close phoenix rd to car traffic, use half of its width to build a tasteful glass covered moving walkway? To mitigate locals the other half could be developed into a mini line park.

  • @babooXX
    @babooXX หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    This really is an interesting topic, but for non-Londoners, it would be great to do a little explaining when showing maps of existing/planned lines and not just pan over the map few seconds and be done with it 😊

  • @tajammulrizvi9504
    @tajammulrizvi9504 26 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I think the vradient between Kings Cross St. Pancras and Euston is something very important to consider.

  • @arthur1670
    @arthur1670 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Will you take about the 3 platforms will only have now lol

  • @darganx
    @darganx หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I like the monorail option to connect the stations, I would ride on it just for the sake of it!
    Shame there isn't anything left of the Polygon, such a historic and groundbreaking building, the first housing estate in an area known for its housing estates.
    R.I.P. Joan Merrett 🌹

    • @EdgyNumber1
      @EdgyNumber1 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Monorail, like Hyperloops, are similar to a chocolate teapot.

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I think the monorail would be fun too but just how long would it take to plan and build!

    • @samuelmelton8353
      @samuelmelton8353 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      ​@@EdgyNumber1 They should use a guided shuttle of some kind. Plenty of examples around the world to base it on.

    • @EdgyNumber1
      @EdgyNumber1 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@samuelmelton8353 What, chocolate teapots?

    • @samuelmelton8353
      @samuelmelton8353 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      @@EdgyNumber1 In fairness, you can't deny that a chocolate teapot would be significantly tastier than a regular teapot.

  • @Robot8A
    @Robot8A 19 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The best solution, in my opinion, is to peatonalize Phoenix Road and add some travelators (preferably with some roof to protect against rain) and signage.

  • @Urban_Flux
    @Urban_Flux หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    that was really interesting, thank you

  • @JelMain
    @JelMain หลายเดือนก่อน

    I should add, in connection with the North London Line connector, that the bridges between Camden Stables and Camley Street have a derelict two-track span to the north. Given th HS1 portal sends trains to the south, it would seem rational to shift the Overground into this space, with a rebuilt Camden Road station. That's sub-optimal, as trains would slow for surface running, though.

    • @sihollett
      @sihollett หลายเดือนก่อน

      That was the plan. But to be the GC-gauge of HS1 and HS2, it had to be single track and freight trains weren't allowed to use it. Cost £3bn, allowed 3tph/direction (which it needed passengers walking between Stratford and Stratford International to fill up).

    • @JelMain
      @JelMain หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@sihollett Think of it as space rather than track, in the original plan, but I still revert to my final comment, tunnelling below that line to connect to HS1 somewhere under Hackney would allow a straight-through run. Stratford International's pretty irrelevant, other than as the branch junction to the service base which can use reservoir reclaimed land, replacing the capacity to the north. You've then got three shuttle spurs, to the Elizabeth Stratford and OOC, Paddington and St Pancras, and possibly ThamesLink.

    • @sihollett
      @sihollett หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@JelMain But you need track to run trains - thinking of it as space is silly! But not as silly as routing HS2 to HS1, given the lack of demand for through traffic between the High Speed lines (hence why, despite the limits of the line being single track, they needed people walking a quarter mile through a shopping centre to try and fill trains up).
      And then you propose having London to Europe/Kent travellers have to change at Stratford onto a shuttle. Trains almost emptying out with the passengers all going to the same train. Pointless! 🤦‍♂

  • @Foddeur
    @Foddeur หลายเดือนก่อน

    A shame there's such a lack of forward-thinking with HSR in the UK. Would've been great seeing sleeper trains to the continent leaving from Edinburgh, or jumping on a TGV in the north to reach France. That said, Paris has a similar lack of direct connectivity with its Termini, and my experience has only really been the short walk between the Gare du Nord and Gare de l'Est. Can't say I've had to make a mad dash between St. Lazare and Montparnasse - though back in the day we did use to have to rush from Kings Cross to Waterloo to grab the Eurostar...

    • @grassytramtracks
      @grassytramtracks หลายเดือนก่อน

      Gare de Lyon and Gare d'Austerlitz are also very close, and Bercy isn't very far either

  • @maoschanz4665
    @maoschanz4665 หลายเดือนก่อน

    if the street between the 2 stations is straight, why would they build a people mover on rails or guideways instead of a cable car?

    • @maoschanz4665
      @maoschanz4665 หลายเดือนก่อน

      even if crossrail 2 gets built, people would still prefer to not walk 6 minutes, so using this as a reason why nothing is planned sounds silly

  • @inuit2winit
    @inuit2winit 3 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Watching London transit videos from North East England, where our bridges are rusted, our overpasses are closed due to falling apart and our 40 year old metro system has had no news trains since it opened,is like looking at something from a different world, not a couple of hours down the east coast mainline

  • @cannadineboxill-harris2983
    @cannadineboxill-harris2983 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I needed to know why they couldn’t dig a tunnel and do an extension for most of the mainline Trains so that they could extend the unused abandoned underground train stations. Why couldn’t they use the part D78 Stock train doors on the sides and also restructure the front face of the A60 and A62 stock which will include the class 507, class 508, class 313, class 314 and class 315 remix and make them all together and also redesign all of them into an overhead wire line trains and also make most of them into Five carriages per units and also having three Disabled Toilets on those Five cars per units A60 and A62 stock trains and also convert the A60 and A62 stock trains into a Gardner 6LXCT, Leyland 510, Gardner 6LXC, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner LG1200 and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Engines and also put the Loud 7 Speed Voith Gearboxes even Loud 10 Speed Leyland Hydra cyclic Gearboxes in the A60 and A62 stock, class 507, class 508, class 313, class 314, and class 315 and also modernise the A60 and A62 stock and make it into 11 carriages per unit so it could have fewer doors, more tables, computers and mobile phone chargers? A Stock Train and 8 Disabled Toilets on those A stock trains. why couldn’t we refurbish and modernise the waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel and make it even much more Larger and extend it to the bank station, making it into a Triple-Track Railway Line so those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden to convert the waterloo and city line Triple-Track Railway tunnel into a High-Speed Railway lines? The Third Euro tunnel Triple-Track Railway line to make it 11 times better for passengers so they could go from A to B. Then put the modernised 11 carriages per unit A Stock and put them on a bigger modernised Waterloo and city line Triple-Track train tunnel so it could go to bank station to those Five countries such as Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. The modernised refurbished 11 carriages per unit A stock could be a High Speed The Third Triple-Track Euro Tunnel Train So it is promising and 47 times a lot more possible to do this kind of project if that will be OK for London Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden. oh by the way, could they also tunnel the Triple-Track Railway Line so it will stop from Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex so that the Passengers will go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland and Sweden and also extend the Triple-Track Railway Line from the Bank to Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire and Essex Stations so that more people from there could go to Australia, Germany, Italy, Poland And Sweden more Easily. Why couldn't they extend the Piccadilly Line and also build brand-new underground train stations so it could go even further right up to Clapton, Wood Street can they also make another brand new underground train station in Chingford and could they extend the Piccadilly Line and the DLR right up to Chingford? All of the classes 150, 155, 154, 117, 114, 105, and 106, will be replaced by all of the Gardner 6LXCT, Leyland 510, Volvo B10M, Gardner 6LXC, Gardner 6LXB, Gardner LG1200 and Gardner 8LXB Diesel Five carriages three disabled toilets are air conditioning trains including Highams Park for extended roots which is the Piccadilly line and the DLR trains. Could you also convert all of the 1973 stock trains into an air-conditioned maximum speed 78 km/hours (48 MPH) re-refurbished and make it into a 8 cars per unit if that will be alright, and also extend all of the Piccadilly train stations to make more space for all of the extended 8 car per unit 1973 stock air condition trains and can you also build another Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive Companies and can they order Every 87 Octagon and Every 48 Hexagon shape LNER diagram unique small no.13 and unique small no.11 Boilers from those Countries such as Greece, Italy, Poland, and Sweden, can they make Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive speeds by up to 147MPH so you can try and test it on the Original Mainline so it will be much more safer for the Passengers to enjoy the 147MPH speed Limit only for HS2 and Channel Tunnel mainline services, if they needed 16 Carriages Per units, can they use those class 55’s, class 44’s, class 40’s and class 43HST Diesel Locomotive’s right at the Back of those 18 Carriages Per Units so they can take over at the Back to let those Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s have a rest for those interesting Journeys Please!!!!!!!!!!, oh can you make all of those 18 Tonne Boxes of Coal for all of those 147MPH Mayflower and Tornado Steam Locomotive’s so the Companies will Understand us PASSENGER’S!!!!!! So please make sure that the Builders can do as they are told!!!!!!!!!! And PLEASE do something about these very very important Professional ideas Please? Prime Minister of England, Prime Minister of Australia, Prime Minister of Sweden, Prime Minister of Germany, Prime Minister of Italy, Prime Minister of Poland and that Includes the Mayor of London.

  • @teecefamilykent
    @teecefamilykent หลายเดือนก่อน

    Would you ever do a video on the regional eurostar scheme?
    New subscriber so apologies if you have already done a video on that.

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Alas even this video was a bit of an outlier for me. It featured a walk between Euston and St Pancras and sort of grew!

  • @kevinnicholson7722
    @kevinnicholson7722 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    interesting video. Euston will have to be rebuilt anyway. I like the monorail idea.

    • @mattpotter8725
      @mattpotter8725 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It definitely needs something but HS1/Eurostar and HS2 should run into the same station with no need for having 2 stations, as well as skirting trains directly from Birmingham (and hopefully Manchester) to go directly to Paris and Brussels. This is just British incompetence at its greatest. In the video it's mentioned that the British Library is in the way, well move it, it doesn't need to be in that location anyway. I know this wouldn't be able to be done overnight but it's another case of thinking small and fudging the solution.

    • @TrevorWilliams-fq8mg
      @TrevorWilliams-fq8mg หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      After what the British Library cost it isn't coming down. And there's an 8 storey basement under it. So tunelling under isn't an option.

  • @rhysrail
    @rhysrail หลายเดือนก่อน

    Personally what i would do if we were serious about high speed railways would be a dedicated underground line with a central underground station in the centre either with terminus platforms or 2 above ground stations outside the city so after they run through they could terminate there or just continue to run on to HS1 or HS2, this would open up the possibility of commuting from London to further away places maybe even in France if they better worked out the borders

  • @HuntingCatIsBack
    @HuntingCatIsBack หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I used to frequent that bar in Euston too, back in the 1990's. I once lent Peter Hain my phone battery in 1997 in the run-up to General Election. He had the same model of phone I had (a Nortel One2One), and I happened to be both a Labour Party supporter and enough of a wonk to know who he was. Ah, the days before battery banks
    He bought me a drink to cover the outrageous costs per minutes of my calling plan. Not on expenses he assured me.

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I remember him when he was a Young Liberal!

  • @peterbreis5407
    @peterbreis5407 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Where do Londoner's consider to be the heart of their city? It seems very vague.

  • @Jothetrainneeek
    @Jothetrainneeek 14 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I think it would be much better if hs2 was available for Eurostars to go further up the country

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Eurostar trains would not fit the UK Loading Guge or fit in any UK domestic Station platforms

  • @erejnion
    @erejnion หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    You know, considering that Tokyo station has just 6 tracks for each shinkansen line (and no, none of these tracks are through, the line to Osaka and the line to the north operate independently), I don't get why London's terminus NEEDS so many platforms. Just be like the Japanese and be more efficient at turning trains around. The idea of HS2 is to have less disruptions on this new trunk line, after all, so you should be free to optimize the time down to the seconds. Otherwise, if you are building HS2 thinking it's gonna get disrupted all the time, what are you even doing.

    • @erejnion
      @erejnion หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I lied, the Tohoku shinkansen has just four tracks at Tokyo station. The entire Tokyo terminus essentially uses just 10 tracks for HS1+HS2 together.

    • @volty58
      @volty58 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      "Just be like the Japanese" this already is not possible.

    • @erejnion
      @erejnion หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@volty58 Point taken.

  • @ronsmith3554
    @ronsmith3554 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Why does HS2 need to terminate at Euston (or anywhere in Greater London)? Well that is the key question and I would like to know the answer too. Let's see the whole strategy and long term plan because it makes no sense at all to me. How does it fit in with the needs of UK citizens in the 21st century?

    • @captainnemo247
      @captainnemo247 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The long term plan has been scrapped. Politicians can't see further than the end of their nose.

    • @simonh317
      @simonh317 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Because MML, WCML and even ECML are running above capacity. MML are having to slow down express services as the lanes are full so they don`t get enough time and distance to run an express through. HS2 was to solve that in 1 stroke so the fast stuff can run down its own lane - freeing up alot of extra capacity everywhere else, almost like building 3 new railways - that`s how much would be freed up.

    • @50upss
      @50upss หลายเดือนก่อน

      because a lot of people want to travel to London?

    • @ronsmith3554
      @ronsmith3554 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I would be interested to know how many other journeys are not made because the rail service does not exist. It's likely many of these alternative projects can be built at much lower cost and give quicker benefits (cost, efficiency, environmental etc.). I am not convinced that most UK citizens see London as the place they most want to get to and from. Imagine if Britons could get to and from mainland Europe without even passing through the UK's most expensive property & land? 200 years ago we were railway pioneers.

    • @meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2
      @meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Because London is where people want to go, and the railway follows demand. Otherwise a great deal of money could have been saved by making HS2 a circular railway with no stations somewhere up north where land was cheaper.

  • @jan-keesverschuure2436
    @jan-keesverschuure2436 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Old Oak Common is ill designed in location and size, 22 platforms just to connect HS2 to the Elizabeth Line and Overground, while most passengers continue into Euston.

  • @DrMJT
    @DrMJT หลายเดือนก่อน

    You missed a big option. HS2 station Between Euston and StPanc... with front exit into StPanc and rear of the 400m trainsets exit into Euston.
    These would be subterranean larger bored holes and passage ways dug out.
    It would have the xRail2 (actually 3 if count thameslink 2000 as Crossrail 1)... the new whenever it is built station would be DEEP like at Bond or TCR etc. stacked below it would be HS2 with terminating tunnel bores and through tunnel bores (pair of Up and Down lines to join HS1 somewhere after tunnel portal at King's Cross with the most likely being into the station box at Stratford Intl.
    Instead of the ) loop up over and into Euston, it would be forward to East from OOC.
    Another option, the Grand Paris Option... A total rebuild of Euston with WCML at ground level and HS2 below ground with the new station frontage/entrance facing East, across street from St Pancreas. Occupying the land across the street, in corner of Brill Place and Midland Road. The old station to be totally razed to the ground and have it rebuilt with High Density DECENT sized and build housing Units.
    The existing site could easily have 12 to 15,000+ units just using a [ X ] block shape around and towers in centre (similar to Docklands but more a mini city. It would have schools, shops, minor injuries walk in, and GPs, etc. Surround the existing maximum footprint with 320m tall flats and fill in the centre with a X shaped building. These would all have excellent connections to the Existing TfL LUL stations.
    In urban areas we are going to either have to Build taller to the Maximum allowed (change to 500m) in London and as well, build entire NEW Cities a la the way China is building the new Eco City 100km from Beijing. There is ample room on the hills along centre of England and another in Kent/Essex.

  • @leninism100
    @leninism100 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Because Euston is in Central London. Why does the Channel Tunnel terminate in Gare Du Nord? Surely some village in Northern France would be great?

  • @goodwood-rc4nx
    @goodwood-rc4nx หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    just build a tunnel with a travelator as the monorail far too expensive plus dig a tunnel between Euston and Euston Square tube

    • @samuelmelton8353
      @samuelmelton8353 หลายเดือนก่อน

      They should have an automated shuttle.

    • @sihollett
      @sihollett หลายเดือนก่อน

      Euston Square tie in is in the Euston HS2 plans.

  • @KevinTheCaravanner
    @KevinTheCaravanner หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’ve walked between Euston and St Pancras many times but always walk along Euston Road because I thought that was shorter.

  • @JohnSmith-mn6jz
    @JohnSmith-mn6jz หลายเดือนก่อน

    How does a CR2 station make it easier? People still have to walk

    • @volty58
      @volty58 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Walking inside is much better that walking outside especialy with luggage and it gets worse when there's bad weather.
      I also believe the CR2 scheme had travelators planned in the corridor between the two stations.

  • @robertjohnsontaylor3187
    @robertjohnsontaylor3187 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I can never understand why HS1 couldn’t have been extended to Glasgow/Edinburgh so as to give direct travel from Scotland to Paris/Brussels etc.

    • @juleswombat5309
      @juleswombat5309 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Cos No One wants to go to Scotland. That would make HS1 longer than London to Paris LOL.

    • @grassytramtracks
      @grassytramtracks หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@juleswombat5309 and? There are many high speed railway lines that are much longer than from Paris to London

  • @adamruscoe170
    @adamruscoe170 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Rather than worrying about how people from the North get to Europe (I'm not sure of the stats on the number of people who want a direct train from Manchester to Brussels) why not concentrate on getting every high speed train north of Birmingham onto HS2 and terminate somewhere in London (probably Euston)
    This would basically eliminate 125mph spacing on the WCML and run the pendolinos and whatever is used on the HS2 core at 140mph
    Trains from north of Birmingham already do limited stop (some from Glasgow for example don't stop south of Warrington...)
    Makes much more sense to funnel fast trains from the victorian lines than to find ways to provide provincial connections to Europe

    • @peterwilliamallen1063
      @peterwilliamallen1063 หลายเดือนก่อน

      How do people from the North get to Europe, they buy a ticket nd get on a plane direct so simple

  • @capcompass9298
    @capcompass9298 หลายเดือนก่อน

    2:15 Berlin Bank BREPS in the late 70s, early 80s.
    14:08 Battleb ridge (named after an Anglo-Saxon battle) was where the (Imperial) gas-holders were\are (16:27 & 27:34)

  • @lesfawcett5245
    @lesfawcett5245 27 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Why do so many assume HS2 has to have a London terminus? All the main lines have terminii because that was the best they could achieve 140 years ago. They were a great advance on the stage coach, the pack horse and the canal boat but that's no excuse for repeating the same mistakes. All HS2 trains should run THROUGH London with underground through platforms at Farrindon Road and on the eastern flank of Waterloo, then rise up in the Waterloo viaduct to run to various southern and western destinations.
    12 trains per hour of 400m trains in the core route, splitting on the move into 24 trains. The connectivity is something HS2 can only dream about.

  • @Roy-gi5ul
    @Roy-gi5ul หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    If, as has happened, the entire HS1/HS2 scheme was not planned and committed to from the outset (including all interchanges and the east/west northern connectivity) it is little wonder that it has turned inexorably into a shitshow! Piecemeal just doesn't cut it on next generation schemes!
    There are only two options: 1. Complete the entire original scheme, including northern powerhouse AND HS1/HS2 direct connection, or if this is not possible, and given the fiscal poverty of Britain, 2. CANCEL all remaining HS2 and spend the money on a serious upgrading of northern rail links to match the progress made south of Watford! Then electrify Midland Mainline all the way to Leeds via both Nottingham and Derby, plus the Sheffield-Manchester link.
    Stop nattering about it in Parliament. Just do it! And for heaven's sake stop being so Londoncentric about everything!! There IS intelligent life outside the Home Counties: all we seem to hear about projects is Londonlondonlondonlondon!

  • @leejohnson3209
    @leejohnson3209 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I was against HS2 being built to high speed standards. But at this stage we may as well finish the project to it's original design specs starting at Euston and finishing in the north. To not start at Euston and not even get to at least Crewe is just madness.

  • @docastrov9013
    @docastrov9013 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Birmingham and Manchester aren't solely "The North" going from Nottingham to STP suits me fine.

  • @QALibrary
    @QALibrary หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    In the budget today the government said Euston is going to be the terminus

    • @TrevorWilliams-fq8mg
      @TrevorWilliams-fq8mg หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      And interestingly they said they are funding the tunnels from OOC but made no mention of funding the new station at Euston or refurbishing the existing Euston. Thats probably because they are still looking for private investment but if nobody is interested they will have to find more money. That looks like being sometime in the future so we are likely to end up with the tunnels but no station for some time.

    • @eddaines237
      @eddaines237 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@TrevorWilliams-fq8mgbasically, they’re unlikely to get much of win from the private sector but what they might get is still be worth exploring. Trouble is, no serious private sector player would spend the time and money looking at it if there was a question over whether the tunnels were even getting built there in the first place. This decision at least allows those conversations to actually happen.

    • @TrevorWilliams-fq8mg
      @TrevorWilliams-fq8mg หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You make a fair point. Another thing that crossed my mind is what money would have been wasted if they had cancelled the tunnels. There's the money already spent on preparing the site which must be considerable as a lot of foundation work has already taken place. And they must have paid for the tunnel boring machines which were on about a 2 year delivery period. They cost about 20 million each. Still, wasting money has been a common theme for HS2. Within 3 days of Sunak cancelling the northern leg a year ago they placed a 300 million order for ground investigation work to that section.

  • @serenissimarespublicavenet3945
    @serenissimarespublicavenet3945 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Who is is that passed away? Was she you mother? Whoever she was, condolences to you, and may she rest in peace.

  • @andybeckman8606
    @andybeckman8606 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Why should it terminate at Euston? Instead it could enter it's own tunnel south, stopping at Euston, stop somewhere in Central London like Holborn then on to maybe Waterloo and resurface to serve a line down to the South Coast, high speed or not.

  • @roboko6618
    @roboko6618 หลายเดือนก่อน

    a direct through route from the north into France and the rest of Europe would bring lots of tourism traffic. I can't imagine many people doing it if they have to change at Euston though. Sure the walk is 7 minutes but this isn't accounting for the whole pullava of families getting their kids off the train and your luggage and getting them through the busy waiting area at euston, faffing around with tickets, stress of worrying about missing your train blablabla. Not having a connection from HS1 to HS2 seems short sighted in that regard.

  • @lindenmeyer11
    @lindenmeyer11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    They should build a 4 track underground through station underneath Tottenham Court Road station. So that HS1 and HS2 could be connected already "downtown".

    • @sihollett
      @sihollett หลายเดือนก่อน

      You can have HS2 phase 2 and NPR. Or you can have this. Same price tag.

  • @samuelmelton8353
    @samuelmelton8353 หลายเดือนก่อน

    A potentially good use of data/ AI might be to transfer the layouts in old maps to a Google Maps 'template' - for modern viewers, these are second nature to read, and are designed to convey map information effectively. Older maps can be hard to make sense of at a glance.
    Imagine being able to slide between old street layouts in the same visual format.

    • @TheUndergroundMap
      @TheUndergroundMap  หลายเดือนก่อน

      Follow the link in the video description

  • @aoilpe
    @aoilpe หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I don’t like the idea of HS2 at St.Pancras - St.Pancras International is already too busy and not made to handle more than 1000 travelers an hour…
    Not enough space !

  • @Steinwelt
    @Steinwelt หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    0:01 Won't you take me to Funkytown!

  • @lovesoderpalm1555
    @lovesoderpalm1555 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Cool gravestone tree