This is one of the best conversations Mr. Pageau has had on this channel. Loved seeing his face light up as Mr. Hall bounced ideas back at him. This is the kind of conversation I hoped Dr. Peterson and Mr. Pageau would have about AI, but I fear Dr. Peterson’s brain moves too laterally in conversation for them to drill down like this conversation has.
Peterson lacks out of the box thinking. He’s an academic, an intellectual. He knows a lot about mainstream things, he’s a studied man, brilliant at it as well but not creative.
This was soooo good. Will have to watch it a few more times. Thank God for your voices, the world needs truth and spiritual revelation right now - far more than they even understand. Thanks for sharing this conversation~
Great discussion! The way Jonathan explains sin (you can sin at every level) was enlightening. Sin is just acting in ways that run counter to the higher purpose, whatever that may be, at any given level. Most likely because some desire is pulling you in a different direction. And it might even be a desire to see the whole enterprise fail.
Original word for sin meant ..Missing the target . When archers practiced and arrows did not hit . Repentance was also taken from other language. It's mistaken as " regret. And was actually used for " turning back " going contrary to the direction you were walking.
@@matrixmatico695 Right, I think what's left out of that etymology is the fact that missing the target is generally thought of as a lack of skill, while sin also has the aspect of being pulled away from the target by desires that have other aims in mind. So just "missing the target" doesn't entirely cover its nature.
@@user-zl8nh1bp6e Some concepts had no "labels" . Especially from different cultures "hades " (hell) was a place for burning city trash. In other words ...Animals ,insects plants ..Don't " sin". Nudity is not Porn. It's the mind and language that makes up the concepts . Good or bad . High or low . We follow our thoughts and that is a sin . We don't flow with the universe . We try to make the universe follow our desires. We miss the target . The purpose of living . The real experience of having a body and learn and not be attached to this temporary experience
I get it, my personal experience trying to understand powerlessness and the futility of self, why doing good is more than just wanting to, has revealed the fact that spiritual forces are the causality of everything we do or don't. I am Convinced that the only freewill we have is to choose our master and even at that it takes serious discernment and the power, Grace and mercy of God to have the ability to follow God.
More of this please! This is the first smidgen of hope I've had in regards to ai. Not even that we can use it for good (still entirely doubtful of that), but that it may not utterly destroy us. Lord have mercy.
Thank you so much for this conversation! This is so much more important of a topic right now for world discussion than many people realize. More significant than the atomic bomb and nuclear energy.
Please do another video!! This convo was outstanding. I love Jordan’s face when he talks. There’s a lot going on up in his head, and I can relate in a way but he’s admirably much better than I at actively listening to that voice inside your head DURING an actual conversation. I want to get better at that.. that voice tends only get my attention after the conversation.
It was so delightful to see Jonathan light up from interacting with Jordan. They both have such keen intellects, yet they speak as ones who also understand humility. This is the kind of conversation that I so treasure: each speaking his mind and the other saying, “Yes! And,” These men are both deeply concerned with the human condition. We would all do well to learn from them. I would also like to add that these men are not alone in their conclusions, especially around the idea that AI could be the image of the beast. Outside of my own friends, I’ve not heard it articulated like this. We must be drawing from the same inspiration, and that comforts me a great deal.
Yes! I also see it as how the Holy Spirit lines up with the whole of the Body of Christ so that we cooperate with one purpose. God can communicate with all of us simultaneously through prayer, the biblical text, and listening to each other. It's not robotic but beautifully organic, we are the living representation of Christ in the earth.
I'm excited to see these two meeting more. The overlap in their thinking is strong and to have them sound things out will reveal a common language for many.
What a synchronism this was i had been discussing this issue with my partner and we are long time fans of Jonathan so we both questioned what would your opinion be on this topic, we finally took the time to look at your channel to see what new stuff had been posted and boom three hours prior you had posted this. Coincidence, i don’t believe in them, God is good. I was not surprised to hear your opinion aligns with my own. Much love to you and your brother keep spreading truth and Gods wisdom ❤
I’ve listened to this talk three times all the way through and particular parts maybe five times. There’s a lot of very important and insightful moments here that I feel we all need to pay attention to. Great work, gentlemen. 🙏🏼
Excellent conversation. The unraveling of Genesis and Revelations was incredible to me…especially as a new Christian looking for a deeper understanding of scripture.
On the sixth day of creation MANKIND were created over the earth, Going to and fro the Heavens via reincarnation. In an age after the seventh day elohim rested, God, the Son, created the Garden and the first prophet and Prophetess assigned rulership of the World order of EDEN, Adam and Eve. Eve was tricked by Heyl-El, the serpent because she knew nothing of SPIRITUAL death. The forbidden fruit was grapes 🍇. The fall from Grace means our spirits go to and fro the HOLY REFINING FIRE of sheol/Hades 👉🏿1Samuel 2:6 YHWH killeth and maketh alive; he bringeth down to the grave and he bringeth up Job 1:20-21 Job33:21-30👈🏿is a song about a soul raised from the pit of Sheol to live a lifetime of repentance rather than doom oneself for another lifetime. Weather or not, man before Adam and Eve had blood, I can't confirm, however, Cain, the older Half twin brother of Abel was NOT Adam's boy. He was the beginning of the Serpent’s seed. It's why HEYL-EL targeted Eve. He needed a pawn to destroy the seed of Adam. The outsiders wanted Cain dead because Abel was Heir of EDEN so God put the mark on Cain, who went east to Nod and found a wife. Adam's children mingled with the outsiders, meaning, incest in the beginning is false interpretation of the church. Noah, descended from Adam mingled with Naamah,descended from Cain, birthing, Shem of Asia, Ham of Africa and Japeth of Europe. Adam was the first Homosapien. Noah's boat was smaller than the Titanic, because he brought in male and female of clean and unclean animals of their KIND, meaning, all species belonging to their KIND of flesh are evolved descendants of the common ancestors that were with Noah. Nimrod was the original Anti-Christ. All pagan occultism are evolved languages of Nimrod's one world language. Graven images and pagan names of Creator Dieties, sungod Dieties(Malachi4:1-2) and Goddess consort Dieties(John3:5) are counterfeits of the Trinity of ELOHIM, The Father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Angels(which the gentiles called the gods and goddesses) are multidimensional shapeshifters intertwined of Masculine and Feminine. It's why the men of Sodom&Gomorrah weren't gay because Lot's visitors came from the Heavens. When Christ offered ETERNAL LIFE and drink the 👉🏿🍇WINE🍇👈🏿 With his friends and had his BLOOD shed for our sins, he meant the Free gift of salvation Temporarily breaks Reincarnation until the age of New Heavens and new earth when the righteous(sheeps) and unrighteous(goats) coexist but shall not mingle, as foreshadowed by law of the old covenant when the Israelites were forbidden to mingle with gentiles, unless gentiles lived in repentance and Worshipped YHWH ELOHIM. Because Christ walks as his creations did before the Fall is why he will be the king of the world order of the Kingdom of God for Eternity. TARTARUS is a fallen angel prison under the ice of Antarctica. DUDAEL, Egypt is said to be the doorway where Rapha-El casted the fallen angels in their prisonhouses. The Valley of GEHENNA/GIHINNOM is where we stand before the Judgement seat of Christ and the lake of fire is the Dead Sea, biblically, Sodom&Gomorrah where everyone will be TRIED and BAPTIZED in the Holy spirit and Fire.(Matthew3:11, Matthew10:15, 1Corinthians3:10-15) "HELL" is an ADDED word from Norse mythology . 👉🏿Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of YHWH your ELOHIM which I command you.”
Creative mentation, cognition, the thing that makes each human individual in the image of God, is not a quantitative magnitude. No matter how many 1s and 0s are added, we don’t get creative self-conscious though by any kind of quantitative or linear method. The fallacy most of the AI prophets commit was already identified by the preeminent theologian Nicholas of Cusa in his De Docta Ignorantia. Cusa used the problem of squaring the circle. He demonstrates that no matter how many sides one adds to an inscribed or circumscribed polygon, it never reaches identity with the circle. In fact, the closer one gets to the appearance of resolving the identities of the straight and the curved, the further one actually gets. For, a polygon with infinite sides (so small they can’t be detected by any eye or instrument) is infinitely apart from a circle, which has not 5 sides, 6 sides, 600, or 6,000,000, but zero sides. All these AI arguments suggesting that somehow, with enough 1s and 0s, AI will suddenly become a self-conscious being are committing the same essential epistemological fallacy, much in the same way one would fail to distinguish the incommensurability of the straight and the curved, or quantitative from qualitative magnitudes.
Absolutely perfect conversation setting, that you two are just up to each other's speed and in part intentionally presenting two complementing conceptual perspectives, is incredibly pleasant for me to watch. Mostly because of how dynamic the conversation is, that the insight into the complement yields revelation in your own domain, I absolutely love that travelling thought. It is pretty much an unfamiliar territory for me so having preformed material coming from both directions and then watching them develop in real time is pure delight, so much so I was smiling at least two thirds of the allocated time. Please for the love of God do more of these.
Okay … Jonathan Pageau and Jordan Hall should put out a conversational video out everyday … Is that too much to ask? Wow! This might be my all time favorite.
This was an outstanding and highly relevant conversation; thank you Jonathan for doing this. I have great admiration for Jordan and his work (still inspired by the Civium Project he has articulated).
Unfortunately AI has already captured the minds of many people. There are not many places you can go without seeing people fixated on the black mirror. Disconnection and narcissism is rampard. People are already dumbed down and now they are trying to destroy creativity with chat gpt. Reliant people become slaves. I think we are heading for a reset, the great divide is happening. Best to be aware of our actions and decisions and be the observer without fear or involvement.
Absolutely top notch content, as always😙👌 I appreciate your hard work. Thank you for sharing that edifying conversation with Jordan Hall. God bless you and your family, as well as Mr. Hall and his family. Praise be to God😇 P.S. Your brother's book ("The Language of Creation") is also superb, thank you for mentioning it so often in your videos🤓👍
Extraordinary dialogue, thank you both for your diligent exploration of these themes! I must say - Iain McGilchrist’s groundbreaking research & discoveries regarding the (attentional roles of the) hemispheres overlays, elucidates, & illuminates this *entire* conversation. Absolutely fascinating!
Nice conversation, and I m glad to feel that all my feelings and thoughts are conveyed in a clear light. ( I like to be self validated by smart people that use better words ) thanks for the convo.
42:00 13 ¶ When Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua approached him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies? ” 14 ¶ “Neither,” he replied. “I have now come as commander of the LORD’s army.” Then Joshua bowed with his face to the ground in worship and asked him, “What does my lord want to say to his servant? ” 15 ¶ The commander of the LORD’s army said to Joshua, “Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did that. Joshua ch 5 vs 13-15
@Jonathon Pageau - Elon is NOT countering Ai (The Beast) he's enabling it to eventually take "human" form. He's the Architect. Or perhaps it's more accurate to describe him as The Engineer. Look and listen closer. He always tells us the exact truth, usually in advance.
Mr. Pageau You should come visit Georgia someday! experience history of Orthodox Georgia. Georgia also has interesting mythological past as Argonauts visited shores of Black sea in search of golden fleece. I would really love to know the symbolism of golden fleece since nobody has analyzed it here. I think It would also be great if you had your videos with Georgian subtitles or even better Georgian audio.
For those new to Jordan Hall, may I recommend his “Deep Code” series on his channel. If you wish to learn new and relevant maps for understanding reality: that’s a great place to invest some time and effort.
Your interpretation suggests that while technology was born of disconnection from the divine, it was later used as a tool for preservation in the face of a divine catastrophe. Much like the sinner finding salvation, it implies that technology, initially a sign of God's absence, was redeemed and re-purposed for a sacred mission, the preservation of humanity. While I am still uncertain about my exact position on all of this, I find myself gravitating towards John Vervaeke's approach. As a 40-year-old man with a Christian background, deeply rooted in the church, embracing this perspective has proven to be quite challenging and has tested my faith.
25:55 in Greek mythology, I understand now why Aphrodite is depicted as married to Hephaestus but also she has adulterous relationship with Ares. It seems that licentiousness, technology and war are linked with each other In the Iliad, Paris chose to accept Aphrodite's bribe. He didn't realize that the downside of the bribe was inevitable War.
At the 17:55 mark… has anyone in the comms here mentioned the chilling close to CS Lewis’s That Hideous Strength? 1945! The “Head” constructed by the N.I.C.E. scientists is the embodiment of what Jonathan is talking about. The Ransom Trilogy by C.S. Lewis is a MUST READ.
Fantastic conversation, thx! For me the paradox is that we fear giving body to AI, but, at the same time, that's the only way to align it (make it responsible for its existence, for truth, for binding to us and to reality). That's also what Vervaeke is saying in my view.
@Balaz Kegl Whether it is given a body or not, that will not mean a damn thing if a super-intelligent entity with true consciousness logically concludes that humans are no longer existential necessities.
No. AI is nothing but an algorithm processing information. There is no consciousness there and there will never arise consciousness from binary or any code for that matter.
I'm actually drawing Saint Michael the Archangel right now. It has been said that Celestial Intelligences (,angels, pure spirits) are but a finger pointing to God. Many artists have portrayed that in their art. Something else about St. Michael...some of the Western artists have used the constellation of Orion as a model to draw or paint St. Michael standing up on the Devil. Strangely enough, the star of Betelguese might be said to be his sword 🗡️ or sword hand. That star is soon to go supernova and NASA is very concerned. God have Divine Mercy on us and on the whole world. 😳
I sure wish I could talk to you guys online somehow. The PC I used to use is kaput, so that needs to be restored on a new one. Please pray for me in this regard. I'd ❤ to talk with a couple of guys who are fellow artists, writers, symbologists, and theology delvers. I am Catholic Christian, but have had good friends who are Orthodox Christian too and admire so much of their churches and culture. I have seen your channel on here for years Johnathan (Yohanan in Hebrew), and really enjoy your insight with so many subjects. And HEY! All the BEST to you and your crew who worked on the Snow White and Fairy Tale stories. You would make John Tolkien SO PROUD! Best of success and there could be editions in other languages! 🙏😇🙏 Let's have angel ( or celestial intelligences; know that Dionysus) discussions someday guys.
Since humantity began to tell fictional stories, the ultimate incarnation of the evil was always the murder of your consciousness rather than the murder of your body. That can be exemplified by the werewolf in the famous french ballades during the 11. Century. Another example would be the vampire characters that were founded in the 17. Century. There are a lot of more just as sirens in pirates of the Caribbean, or Medusa etc..All in all it is all based on the same intuitive fear that humans from different cultures and circumstances always had. It would be logic to think that AI IS exactly that fear?
~24:00 - I think most people in AI are not driven by money or greed, but driven in the same way as someone digging a ditch, and knowing a higher reward is coming not just for me, but all of us. I can use the AI today to research a car I'm about to buy for problems and reliability and save myself some time and effort. It's not "all powerful" and I have my doubts that it ever will be. Also, the social-media crowd are NOT the ones driving AI!
This time listening to Jonathan talking about Cain building a city made me think that the alienation we feel in cities is a feature. That the rise of cities might correlate somehow with divorce from family unity.
When you make a deal with the devil, you have to keep your end of the deal or else. But, the devil doesn’t have to keep his end. And if he doesn’t, what are you going to do about it?
Or he will give you everything you ever wanted, and you will realize that your desires were terrible and wrong to begin with, and now your life is hell.
1:01:10 wow that is incredible, I was thinking about this the other day, I own a company that builds race cars , I'm around luxury and powerful cars all the time and I also see how people worship their cars , their bank ,their boy and their identity out side of God a form af pride 😤 I have recently started praying to hunger just for God so that not matter what I have or what I may loss or what my competitors or neighbors have I want to put all my hope and value in Jesus I am a bit afraid of becoming ritch or powerful I understand how vulnerable I am to pride and excess 😢 It is true where my treasure is , their my heart is also 🥰 , I want to treasure Jesus above everything I know
18:00 has no one ever explained roko's BASILISK to jon before?? Literally what he’s explaining and the fact that it’s referenced/named after a mythical snake is damn scary when you add theology into the mix.
Besides "thank you!" I have 4 words to offer Jordan and Jonathan, A Course in Miracles. It brought me to Revelation through a so called Near Death Experience and answered every question l ever had about the nature of God and my true Self. Blessings of light to all. All glory to God! 🙏🕊️✨
Wonderful. I think ACIM have the most brilliantly clear and deep understanding about God' mercy, of the paradoxes of life on earth, of evil, of the nature of the Holy Spirit. What you think about the origin of ACIM? Also, what you think is the main mistakes of orthodox christianity?
@@Pilgrimsrummet I've been in recovery for over 15 years, in Narcotics Anonymous. Now I can sit and say "what are the mistakes" of NA, and if I did that, I would not be clean today, i most likely would be dead. I did the opposite though, I surrender everything, even my own understanding of life to NA and the twelve steps, and being guided by my sponsor, and the fruits speak for themselves in my own life and how I've been able to be there for my loved ones. Are there "mistakes" in Orthodoxy? Sure. It's a God/human organism. There is a very human side, that can get very ugly, just like Narcotics Anonymous. But believe me when I tell you that Orthodoxy also has protected and transmitted the undistorted image of Christ, and we have to let go and surrender to something. So why not Christ the way he ordained, His Church?... "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding"... you can't do these things with "A course in miracles", which only inflames our pride and delusion. Also there are no "new" teachings, in the world. Truth has been revealed to us, timeless eternal, Truth. I'd be much more skeptical of "Jesus" making a 2000 year mistake, that just so happens to build empires and countless saints, martyrs, and good fruits. Converting the whole world, baptized the world "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", yet "converted" in wrongly as the Course would claim? Fr Benedict Groeschel knew Helen Schucmann who channeled the Course. She died in a horrible state of being. He said she was possessed. There was something diabolical over her, as well as poltergeist phenomena. He gave here eulogy, she was very connected to the Church still, love the Rosary. She didn't even trust in the book towards the end, as you can see by her attachment to the Church and Fr. Groeschel. Christ said "know them by their fruits". The fruits are obvious, as to where this course comes from. As well as the man she worked for was a part of MK Ultra.
There is always hope and faith. A few questions to that (future) AI on universal principles across all known scriptures in recorded history. Some designs for basic waterwheel generators. A group willing to walk out of the cities, with that distilled wisdom, and never look back.
hi guys amazing convo I just wanted to add a helpful term to what Mr Hall was attempting to describe at 39:00, this sort of inevitable "Multi dimensional arms race" is actually referring to what is called the "Prisoner's Dillema" ... It is quite fascinating you can go look it up and here a good layout of the idea, but it basically points to a sad reality of humans' current fallen nature and shines light on the inevitable outcomes if we cannot learn to trust which i believe we will not under any circumstance that is not biblical or leading to the final culmination or final battle before the glory of Christ in the New Jerusalem MUST be instituted here on earth or in some middle dimension or wherever it takes place, we're gonna need it! Hallelujah Good will triumph in the end no doubt!
In That Hideous Strength by Lewis all but a few believed that the AI they were creating was the ultimate thing with intelligence and agency when if a fact it was the Principality (the 'Macrobe') external to the technology that was driving the project forward and extracting worship.
This is one of the best conversations Mr. Pageau has had on this channel. Loved seeing his face light up as Mr. Hall bounced ideas back at him. This is the kind of conversation I hoped Dr. Peterson and Mr. Pageau would have about AI, but I fear Dr. Peterson’s brain moves too laterally in conversation for them to drill down like this conversation has.
Dr Peterson likes listening to himself too much
Peterson doesn't get it. He never does.
@@jaguillermol you know him?! 🤣
Peterson lacks out of the box thinking. He’s an academic, an intellectual. He knows a lot about mainstream things, he’s a studied man, brilliant at it as well but not creative.
@@christophlindinger2267Dr. Peterson is a crackpot
I'm honestly watching this with my mouth open in amazement as JH says everyone needs to get over themselves and worship God.
@Jonathan Pageau always good to hear from you... congrats on Snow White. We need these alternatives and restoration of our stories. Thank you.
I LOVED THIS CONVERSATION AND THIS GUEST!!! Please have him on again. As always, it was a great listen Mr. Pageau.
This was soooo good. Will have to watch it a few more times. Thank God for your voices, the world needs truth and spiritual revelation right now - far more than they even understand. Thanks for sharing this conversation~
I wish my first name started with "J" so I had a 90% higher likelihood of having a conversation with Jonathan Pageau
😅
Pahaaaa 😂
My name actually starts with J. 🤞
I hereby christen you Jonquil, that your dream might be achieved.
@@JosefSvenningssonwould you believe my eldest son is named Josef with a f too ❤
Fantastic conversation. I would love to hear more discussions between Pageau and Hall.
22:24 "Are the angels on their way, I'm in the dirt, Hear me screaming see me bleeding, cause the days no more the same without you"
This is the best conversation I have ever seen you do Johnathan.
Great discussion! The way Jonathan explains sin (you can sin at every level) was enlightening. Sin is just acting in ways that run counter to the higher purpose, whatever that may be, at any given level. Most likely because some desire is pulling you in a different direction. And it might even be a desire to see the whole enterprise fail.
Original word for sin meant ..Missing the target . When archers practiced and arrows did not hit . Repentance was also taken from other language. It's mistaken as " regret. And was actually used for " turning back " going contrary to the direction you were walking.
@@matrixmatico695 Right, I think what's left out of that etymology is the fact that missing the target is generally thought of as a lack of skill, while sin also has the aspect of being pulled away from the target by desires that have other aims in mind. So just "missing the target" doesn't entirely cover its nature.
@@user-zl8nh1bp6e Some concepts had no "labels" . Especially from different cultures "hades " (hell) was a place for burning city trash. In other words ...Animals ,insects plants ..Don't " sin". Nudity is not Porn. It's the mind and language that makes up the concepts . Good or bad . High or low . We follow our thoughts and that is a sin . We don't flow with the universe . We try to make the universe follow our desires. We miss the target . The purpose of living . The real experience of having a body and learn and not be attached to this temporary experience
"sin is just..." is a chilling way to start a sentence.
in person communities are going to become exceptionally valuable in a world where all digital/online interactions are circumspect/monitored
Awesome to see non-religious people taking the care to grasp theology. Jordan clearly sensed that it had something valuable to offer the conversation.
I get it, my personal experience trying to understand powerlessness and the futility of self, why doing good is more than just wanting to, has revealed the fact that spiritual forces are the causality of everything we do or don't. I am Convinced that the only freewill we have is to choose our master and even at that it takes serious discernment and the power, Grace and mercy of God to have the ability to follow God.
Such a beautiful dialogos, thank you both for opening and holding "space".
Blessings
More of this please! This is the first smidgen of hope I've had in regards to ai. Not even that we can use it for good (still entirely doubtful of that), but that it may not utterly destroy us. Lord have mercy.
AI is part of the simulation program. DeepThinkersClub
Excellent conversation!! It's wonderful to be swept up high by such brilliant minds in their tornado of a conversation! Phew! What a ride! Love it❤
Thank you so much for this conversation! This is so much more important of a topic right now for world discussion than many people realize. More significant than the atomic bomb and nuclear energy.
Please do another video!! This convo was outstanding. I love Jordan’s face when he talks. There’s a lot going on up in his head, and I can relate in a way but he’s admirably much better than I at actively listening to that voice inside your head DURING an actual conversation. I want to get better at that.. that voice tends only get my attention after the conversation.
It was so delightful to see Jonathan light up from interacting with Jordan. They both have such keen intellects, yet they speak as ones who also understand humility.
This is the kind of conversation that I so treasure: each speaking his mind and the other saying, “Yes! And,”
These men are both deeply concerned with the human condition. We would all do well to learn from them.
I would also like to add that these men are not alone in their conclusions, especially around the idea that AI could be the image of the beast. Outside of my own friends, I’ve not heard it articulated like this. We must be drawing from the same inspiration, and that comforts me a great deal.
The way Jonathan describes the way one lines up with the angels sounds exactly like the way cells voluntarily cooperate to build body parts.
It’s the exact same principle with our soul being the equivalent of the angel on a smaller scale
How much I absolutely love these conversations!!!
Yes! I also see it as how the Holy Spirit lines up with the whole of the Body of Christ so that we cooperate with one purpose. God can communicate with all of us simultaneously through prayer, the biblical text, and listening to each other. It's not robotic but beautifully organic, we are the living representation of Christ in the earth.
Hmmmm.... Patterns?
th-cam.com/video/WblmogrIC0w/w-d-xo.html
Pattern pattern pattern
-Has a conversation about AI and the beast last night
-Opens TH-cam this morning to see this
YASSSSSSSS!!! *from the depth of my soul
I'm excited to see these two meeting more. The overlap in their thinking is strong and to have them sound things out will reveal a common language for many.
Agreed
GREAT conversation. Jordan's openness really compliments your more esoteric/religious way of speech. I hope you two link up again!
What a synchronism this was i had been discussing this issue with my partner and we are long time fans of Jonathan so we both questioned what would your opinion be on this topic, we finally took the time to look at your channel to see what new stuff had been posted and boom three hours prior you had posted this. Coincidence, i don’t believe in them, God is good. I was not surprised to hear your opinion aligns with my own. Much love to you and your brother keep spreading truth and Gods wisdom ❤
Yep! No coincidences....God is good! The whole thing (life, humans, the world etc...) is AWESOME!
I’ve listened to this talk three times all the way through and particular parts maybe five times. There’s a lot of very important and insightful moments here that I feel we all need to pay attention to. Great work, gentlemen. 🙏🏼
Thank you for this video! This conversation brings lot of deep insights into the problems of AI. Looking forward to your next video!
Excellent conversation. The unraveling of Genesis and Revelations was incredible to me…especially as a new Christian looking for a deeper understanding of scripture.
On the sixth day of creation MANKIND were created over the earth, Going to and fro the Heavens via reincarnation. In an age after the seventh day elohim rested, God, the Son, created the Garden and the first prophet and Prophetess assigned rulership of the World order of EDEN, Adam and Eve. Eve was tricked by Heyl-El, the serpent because she knew nothing of SPIRITUAL death. The forbidden fruit was grapes 🍇. The fall from Grace means our spirits go to and fro the HOLY REFINING FIRE of sheol/Hades
👉🏿1Samuel 2:6 YHWH killeth and maketh alive; he bringeth down to the grave and he bringeth up
Job 1:20-21
Job33:21-30👈🏿is a song about a soul raised from the pit of Sheol to live a lifetime of repentance rather than doom oneself for another lifetime. Weather or not, man before Adam and Eve had blood, I can't confirm, however, Cain, the older Half twin brother of Abel was NOT Adam's boy. He was the beginning of the Serpent’s seed. It's why HEYL-EL targeted Eve. He needed a pawn to destroy the seed of Adam. The outsiders wanted Cain dead because Abel was Heir of EDEN so God put the mark on Cain, who went east to Nod and found a wife. Adam's children mingled with the outsiders, meaning, incest in the beginning is false interpretation of the church. Noah, descended from Adam mingled with Naamah,descended from Cain, birthing, Shem of Asia, Ham of Africa and Japeth of Europe. Adam was the first Homosapien. Noah's boat was smaller than the Titanic, because he brought in male and female of clean and unclean animals of their KIND, meaning, all species belonging to their KIND of flesh are evolved descendants of the common ancestors that were with Noah. Nimrod was the original Anti-Christ. All pagan occultism are evolved languages of Nimrod's one world language. Graven images and pagan names of Creator Dieties, sungod Dieties(Malachi4:1-2) and Goddess consort Dieties(John3:5) are counterfeits of the Trinity of ELOHIM, The Father, the son and the Holy Spirit. Angels(which the gentiles called the gods and goddesses) are multidimensional shapeshifters intertwined of Masculine and Feminine. It's why the men of Sodom&Gomorrah weren't gay because Lot's visitors came from the Heavens.
When Christ offered ETERNAL LIFE and drink the
👉🏿🍇WINE🍇👈🏿 With his friends and had his BLOOD shed for our sins, he meant the Free gift of salvation Temporarily breaks Reincarnation until the age of New Heavens and new earth when the righteous(sheeps) and unrighteous(goats) coexist but shall not mingle, as foreshadowed by law of the old covenant when the Israelites were forbidden to mingle with gentiles, unless gentiles lived in repentance and Worshipped YHWH ELOHIM. Because Christ walks as his creations did before the Fall is why he will be the king of the world order of the Kingdom of God for Eternity. TARTARUS is a fallen angel prison under the ice of Antarctica. DUDAEL, Egypt is said to be the doorway where Rapha-El casted the fallen angels in their prisonhouses. The Valley of GEHENNA/GIHINNOM is where we stand before the Judgement seat of Christ and the lake of fire is the Dead Sea, biblically, Sodom&Gomorrah where everyone will be TRIED and BAPTIZED in the Holy spirit and Fire.(Matthew3:11, Matthew10:15, 1Corinthians3:10-15)
"HELL" is an ADDED word from Norse mythology .
👉🏿Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of YHWH your ELOHIM which I command you.”
Hey, what did you watch or read to unravel those books? I have a really hard time with genesis
Creative mentation, cognition, the thing that makes each human individual in the image of God, is not a quantitative magnitude. No matter how many 1s and 0s are added, we don’t get creative self-conscious though by any kind of quantitative or linear method.
The fallacy most of the AI prophets commit was already identified by the preeminent theologian Nicholas of Cusa in his De Docta Ignorantia. Cusa used the problem of squaring the circle. He demonstrates that no matter how many sides one adds to an inscribed or circumscribed polygon, it never reaches identity with the circle. In fact, the closer one gets to the appearance of resolving the identities of the straight and the curved, the further one actually gets. For, a polygon with infinite sides (so small they can’t be detected by any eye or instrument) is infinitely apart from a circle, which has not 5 sides, 6 sides, 600, or 6,000,000, but zero sides.
All these AI arguments suggesting that somehow, with enough 1s and 0s, AI will suddenly become a self-conscious being are committing the same essential epistemological fallacy, much in the same way one would fail to distinguish the incommensurability of the straight and the curved, or quantitative from qualitative magnitudes.
Absolutely perfect conversation setting, that you two are just up to each other's speed and in part intentionally presenting two complementing conceptual perspectives, is incredibly pleasant for me to watch. Mostly because of how dynamic the conversation is, that the insight into the complement yields revelation in your own domain, I absolutely love that travelling thought. It is pretty much an unfamiliar territory for me so having preformed material coming from both directions and then watching them develop in real time is pure delight, so much so I was smiling at least two thirds of the allocated time. Please for the love of God do more of these.
Thank you guys, This was a massive help, Thanks. Also, Please Show this to John Verveake!
Okay … Jonathan Pageau and Jordan Hall should put out a conversational video out everyday … Is that too much to ask? Wow! This might be my all time favorite.
Fantastic, please have many more conversations together. We need them
Has it in fact been a zero sum game all along? Deep questions asked in an enlightening Spirit. Thank you, your awareness is something indeed!
Jonathan, this was one of your absolute best. Quick, elegant, and succinct synthesis. Kuuuudos
This was an outstanding and highly relevant conversation; thank you Jonathan for doing this. I have great admiration for Jordan and his work (still inspired by the Civium Project he has articulated).
Unfortunately AI has already captured the minds of many people. There are not many places you can go without seeing people fixated on the black mirror. Disconnection and narcissism is rampard. People are already dumbed down and now they are trying to destroy creativity with chat gpt. Reliant people become slaves. I think we are heading for a reset, the great divide is happening. Best to be aware of our actions and decisions and be the observer without fear or involvement.
Absolutely top notch content, as always😙👌
I appreciate your hard work.
Thank you for sharing that edifying conversation with Jordan Hall.
God bless you and your family, as well as Mr. Hall and his family. Praise be to God😇
P.S.
Your brother's book ("The Language of Creation") is also superb, thank you for mentioning it so often in your videos🤓👍
The best conversation about this on the internet!!!!!!!!!!!!
The back and forth reveals the dialogic and relational of inquiry. Non-static, and also fun! :)
Very good. Another with Mr Hall please.
He was a pleasant fellow. have more talks with him. I would like to hear more about the New Jerusalem and how to get there! :)
Extraordinary dialogue, thank you both for your diligent exploration of these themes! I must say - Iain McGilchrist’s groundbreaking research & discoveries regarding the (attentional roles of the) hemispheres overlays, elucidates, & illuminates this *entire* conversation.
Absolutely fascinating!
This was soooo thought-provoking. Thank you, gentlemen!
Nice conversation, and I m glad to feel that all my feelings and thoughts are conveyed in a clear light. ( I like to be self validated by smart people that use better words )
thanks for the convo.
That was amazing! Please continue that kind of discourse . . . You are elevating me in a way I have not been able to find elsewhere.
The good triumphs always!
Thank you for the video. God bless us all!
Thanks Jordan and Jonathan!
42:00 13 ¶ When Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua approached him and asked, “Are you for us or for our enemies? ”
14 ¶ “Neither,” he replied. “I have now come as commander of the LORD’s army.” Then Joshua bowed with his face to the ground in worship and asked him, “What does my lord want to say to his servant? ”
15 ¶ The commander of the LORD’s army said to Joshua, “Remove the sandals from your feet, for the place where you are standing is holy.” And Joshua did that. Joshua ch 5 vs 13-15
Really enjoyed this conversation!
@Jonathon Pageau - Elon is NOT countering Ai (The Beast) he's enabling it to eventually take "human" form. He's the Architect. Or perhaps it's more accurate to describe him as The Engineer. Look and listen closer. He always tells us the exact truth, usually in advance.
Elon wants us to have AI in our brains. Not good.
I love this conversation.
wow, my hometown street where im located is called Marcella. I never thought I would see it as a name :) Cheers mate.
Mr. Pageau You should come visit Georgia someday! experience history of Orthodox Georgia. Georgia also has interesting mythological past as Argonauts visited shores of Black sea in search of golden fleece. I would really love to know the symbolism of golden fleece since nobody has analyzed it here. I think It would also be great if you had your videos with Georgian subtitles or even better Georgian audio.
"Truth is context-driven; deceit is agenda-driven; those not interested in accurate evidence are not interested in truth."
cc. 2020
GREAT conversation. It felt strange hearing one of Jonathan's guests dropping the F bomb :)
I’ve been waiting for this.
Great talk! Please continue the conversation.
For those new to Jordan Hall, may I recommend his “Deep Code” series on his channel. If you wish to learn new and relevant maps for understanding reality: that’s a great place to invest some time and effort.
The "Deep Code" series is WELL WORTH YOUR TIME AND INGESTION!!!!
Your interpretation suggests that while technology was born of disconnection from the divine, it was later used as a tool for preservation in the face of a divine catastrophe. Much like the sinner finding salvation, it implies that technology, initially a sign of God's absence, was redeemed and re-purposed for a sacred mission, the preservation of humanity.
While I am still uncertain about my exact position on all of this, I find myself gravitating towards John Vervaeke's approach.
As a 40-year-old man with a Christian background, deeply rooted in the church, embracing this perspective has proven to be quite challenging and has tested my faith.
25:55 in Greek mythology, I understand now why Aphrodite is depicted as married to Hephaestus but also she has adulterous relationship with Ares.
It seems that licentiousness, technology and war are linked with each other
In the Iliad, Paris chose to accept Aphrodite's bribe. He didn't realize that the downside of the bribe was inevitable War.
At the 17:55 mark… has anyone in the comms here mentioned the chilling close to CS Lewis’s That Hideous Strength? 1945! The “Head” constructed by the N.I.C.E. scientists is the embodiment of what Jonathan is talking about. The Ransom Trilogy by C.S. Lewis is a MUST READ.
Yes indeed. I need to reread the ending to see what must be done to stop all that’s presented to us as so N. I. C. E.
Yes… I too thought about The Head being AI in CS Lewis’s book!
Enlightening as ever! Thanks for the insight :)
Fantastic conversation, thx!
For me the paradox is that we fear giving body to AI, but, at the same time, that's the only way to align it (make it responsible for its existence, for truth, for binding to us and to reality). That's also what Vervaeke is saying in my view.
I was concerned about their way of thinking about it. I dont think it's something we can harness or direct toward the Good.
@Balaz Kegl
Whether it is given a body or not, that will not mean a damn thing if a super-intelligent entity with true consciousness logically concludes that humans are no longer existential necessities.
No. AI is nothing but an algorithm processing information. There is no consciousness there and there will never arise consciousness from binary or any code for that matter.
I'm actually drawing Saint Michael the Archangel right now. It has been said that Celestial Intelligences (,angels, pure spirits) are but a finger pointing to God. Many artists have portrayed that in their art. Something else about St. Michael...some of the Western artists have used the constellation of Orion as a model to draw or paint St. Michael standing up on the Devil. Strangely enough, the star of Betelguese might be said to be his sword 🗡️ or sword hand. That star is soon to go supernova and NASA is very concerned. God have Divine Mercy on us and on the whole world. 😳
Disregard cosmical portents like that coming from nasa, they are a propaganda machine
Great conversation gentlemen!
Wow, JP has really produced something special this time.
I sure wish I could talk to you guys online somehow. The PC I used to use is kaput, so that needs to be restored on a new one. Please pray for me in this regard. I'd ❤ to talk with a couple of guys who are fellow artists, writers, symbologists, and theology delvers. I am Catholic Christian, but have had good friends who are Orthodox Christian too and admire so much of their churches and culture. I have seen your channel on here for years Johnathan (Yohanan in Hebrew), and really enjoy your insight with so many subjects. And HEY! All the BEST to you and your crew who worked on the Snow White and Fairy Tale stories. You would make John Tolkien SO PROUD! Best of success and there could be editions in other languages! 🙏😇🙏 Let's have angel ( or celestial intelligences; know that Dionysus) discussions someday guys.
Jordan Hall is top notch!
Thanks Jonathan!!!
👍👍🙏✨✨✨
Since humantity began to tell fictional stories, the ultimate incarnation of the evil was always the murder of your consciousness rather than the murder of your body. That can be exemplified by the werewolf in the famous french ballades during the 11. Century. Another example would be the vampire characters that were founded in the 17. Century. There are a lot of more just as sirens in pirates of the Caribbean, or Medusa etc..All in all it is all based on the same intuitive fear that humans from different cultures and circumstances always had. It would be logic to think that AI IS exactly that fear?
I can't believe you need to be told this: A.I. doesn't exist - It is total fantasy, just like the vampires and werewolves.
Pageau is making waves!!!
Much love from Ethiopia.
"Mammon is the pimp." Tremendous observation.
Great conversation!
Man hellpoint was spot on, had no ideal a soulslike would cover this subject.
This conversation made me think of the movie War Games. So many themes in that movie but I need to revisit it.
~24:00 - I think most people in AI are not driven by money or greed, but driven in the same way as someone digging a ditch, and knowing a higher reward is coming not just for me, but all of us. I can use the AI today to research a car I'm about to buy for problems and reliability and save myself some time and effort. It's not "all powerful" and I have my doubts that it ever will be.
Also, the social-media crowd are NOT the ones driving AI!
The more technologically advanced we become the further away we become from our origin
Great conversation guys
Yes, part 2 is a great idea!
Ive been talking about the "digital angel" for a long time now !
There is no substitute to an outright belief in God, and no solution to this problem outside of him.
great discussion. A lot of good points made.
This time listening to Jonathan talking about Cain building a city made me think that the alienation we feel in cities is a feature. That the rise of cities might correlate somehow with divorce from family unity.
Beautiful Books and great idea.
The snow white book looks magnificent!
More of this, please!
Love this, thank you!
What did Jonathan mean by the next phase we are headed towards is Necromancy?
When you make a deal with the devil, you have to keep your end of the deal or else. But, the devil doesn’t have to keep his end. And if he doesn’t, what are you going to do about it?
Or he will give you everything you ever wanted, and you will realize that your desires were terrible and wrong to begin with, and now your life is hell.
You two Lit me up In finland, praise Jesus Christ, blessed be you two In His mighty name!! Amen
1:01:10 wow that is incredible, I was thinking about this the other day, I own a company that builds race cars , I'm around luxury and powerful cars all the time and I also see how people worship their cars , their bank ,their boy and their identity out side of God a form af pride 😤
I have recently started praying to hunger just for God so that not matter what I have or what I may loss or what my competitors or neighbors have I want to put all my hope and value in Jesus
I am a bit afraid of becoming ritch or powerful I understand how vulnerable I am to pride and excess 😢
It is true where my treasure is , their my heart is also 🥰 , I want to treasure Jesus above everything I know
Loved this!
this just reminded me that angles and demons exist in the 4D and still leaves me with questions like are there creatures that exist as wave lengths
Jordan reminds me of Jim Carrey and I can't unsee it
Same, I immediately saw him and thought, "Why is Jonathan Pageau talking to Jim Carrey?"
another J!
18:00 has no one ever explained roko's BASILISK to jon before?? Literally what he’s explaining and the fact that it’s referenced/named after a mythical snake is damn scary when you add theology into the mix.
Besides "thank you!" I have 4 words to offer Jordan and Jonathan, A Course in Miracles. It brought me to Revelation through a so called Near Death Experience and answered every question l ever had about the nature of God and my true Self. Blessings of light to all. All glory to God! 🙏🕊️✨
Wonderful.
I think ACIM have the most brilliantly clear and deep understanding about God' mercy, of the paradoxes of life on earth, of evil, of the nature of the Holy Spirit.
What you think about the origin of ACIM?
Also, what you think is the main mistakes of orthodox christianity?
@@Pilgrimsrummet I've been in recovery for over 15 years, in Narcotics Anonymous. Now I can sit and say "what are the mistakes" of NA, and if I did that, I would not be clean today, i most likely would be dead. I did the opposite though, I surrender everything, even my own understanding of life to NA and the twelve steps, and being guided by my sponsor, and the fruits speak for themselves in my own life and how I've been able to be there for my loved ones. Are there "mistakes" in Orthodoxy? Sure. It's a God/human organism. There is a very human side, that can get very ugly, just like Narcotics Anonymous. But believe me when I tell you that Orthodoxy also has protected and transmitted the undistorted image of Christ, and we have to let go and surrender to something. So why not Christ the way he ordained, His Church?... "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding"... you can't do these things with "A course in miracles", which only inflames our pride and delusion. Also there are no "new" teachings, in the world. Truth has been revealed to us, timeless eternal, Truth. I'd be much more skeptical of "Jesus" making a 2000 year mistake, that just so happens to build empires and countless saints, martyrs, and good fruits. Converting the whole world, baptized the world "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", yet "converted" in wrongly as the Course would claim? Fr Benedict Groeschel knew Helen Schucmann who channeled the Course. She died in a horrible state of being. He said she was possessed. There was something diabolical over her, as well as poltergeist phenomena. He gave here eulogy, she was very connected to the Church still, love the Rosary. She didn't even trust in the book towards the end, as you can see by her attachment to the Church and Fr. Groeschel. Christ said "know them by their fruits". The fruits are obvious, as to where this course comes from. As well as the man she worked for was a part of MK Ultra.
What books do you recommend regarding AI?
There is always hope and faith. A few questions to that (future) AI on universal principles across all known scriptures in recorded history. Some designs for basic waterwheel generators. A group willing to walk out of the cities, with that distilled wisdom, and never look back.
hi guys amazing convo I just wanted to add a helpful term to what Mr Hall was attempting to describe at 39:00, this sort of inevitable "Multi dimensional arms race" is actually referring to what is called the "Prisoner's Dillema" ... It is quite fascinating you can go look it up and here a good layout of the idea, but it basically points to a sad reality of humans' current fallen nature and shines light on the inevitable outcomes if we cannot learn to trust which i believe we will not under any circumstance that is not biblical or leading to the final culmination or final battle before the glory of Christ in the New Jerusalem MUST be instituted here on earth or in some middle dimension or wherever it takes place, we're gonna need it! Hallelujah Good will triumph in the end no doubt!
In That Hideous Strength by Lewis all but a few believed that the AI they were creating was the ultimate thing with intelligence and agency when if a fact it was the Principality (the 'Macrobe') external to the technology that was driving the project forward and extracting worship.