Some quick notes: This video is all conjecture. I don't know how this ride came to be. I'm just talking about it in the way that I see it based on what I know, but I may not know everything. If someone has more real insight, please share below. Would like to open the constructive conversation about this more. Additionally, while I highlighted a commenter from a previous video as the catalyst for making this video, I want to be clear that this video is about the larger conversation I'm seeing about this ride, and not about him specifically.
The most likely explanation to me is Six Flags bought Energylandia's Tilt at a discount, as the merger began, knowing there were several parks that could potentially receive it. Even if the merger somehow fell through, they could remove Ninja at SFSTL and build it there. (As an absolute last resort, naturally) Six Flags Mexico would have been a convenient place to store it as (1) shipping costs within Mexico would be lower than for a US park (2) the park has received two relocated coasters recently, reducing suspicion, and (3) the enthusiast base there isn't as connected to enthusiasts in the US and Canada. I do think the decision to add it to Cedar Point specifically was made relatively late. I suppose multiple parks could have been surveyed during the 2023 off-season to allow for a handful of candidates. But it's tough to see how CP had planned to add a Tilt coaster for years but only got one secondhand via Six Flags Mexico, when that purchase was made before the merger was approved.
Also, I imagine Cedar Point was considering some type of launched family coaster for this plot. It's a much more obvious gap in their lineup than another vertical drop coaster with inversions. Plus, since it's next to the marina, a jet ski theme would have been perfect. It would extend the lakeside theme from the Boardwalk to the west side of the peninsula. One small problem: CP doesn't want to work with the top manufacturer of that model, Intamin. And Zamperla hasn't built a MotoCoaster longer than 1500 feet. So they wait to see what B&M and Vekoma do on that front, while working with Zamperla on a new spinning Wild Mouse. If any CF park were to get a coaster like Penguin Trek or Big Bear Mountain, it'd be CP. Ultimately, when Energylandia's Tilt became available, CP was the biggest park with an unoccupied flat plot big enough for it. So that's where it went. Fortunately, this clears the way for Corkscrew to close relatively soon, which might be replaced by a Vekoma straddle coaster when they finally design new trains for that. P.S. I don't want to sound like I disagree with most of your theory. It definitely makes sense that CP would have wanted to fill this site much sooner - potentially with the Wild Mouse and flat rides, even. Maybe closing Wicked Twister for the Boardwalk wasn't the original plan. And Grand Pavilion was prioritized post-COVID to generate more dining revenue. I just have a hard time believing that a thrill coaster with a highly-anticipated vertical drop next to Valravn was planned much more than a year in advance. Anyway, great video, man - keep up the awesome work!!
I really appreciate the constructive conversation! This is great. I think you're talking about something that is possible as well. It's something I considered but didn't really talk about in the video. So I guess I can mirror you here with my alternate theory. CP originally planned for something else to be in this plot. With covid, they cancelled those plans and then ended up having their budget strained when money they were going to spend on the new coaster ended up being needed to fix TT1. So around 2023 they started shopping around for a cheaper option than whatever they were going to build here, and settled on the off-the-shelf tilt coaster sometime in fall of 23. It still makes it relatively last-minute, as you said, but not the kind of "panic mode" decision like some want to believe.
@@cedarpointless Exactly. No regional theme park makes a $10,000,000+ investment out of sheer panic - definitely not Cedar Point. Hope we get a documentary on Siren's Curse in a few years and find out what options were actually considered before landing on a Tilt.
Something to note that you missed was that SFM DID confirm that they would be getting a new roller coaster for 2025, even going as far to provide an announcement date for the new attraction. However, the park would later take down that post, the ride would never be announced, and a few weeks after the SFM attraction was supposed to be announced CP announced their new attraction. It seems kind of counter intuitive for a park to ship parts for a coaster to a park in a completely different country just to throw people off of the scent. Mind you, coaster enthusiasts only make up a small percentage of the parks attendees, and so PR wise, it wouldn't really accomplish much as most of the GP wouldn't care enough to warrant shipping a ride to a whole other country. Also, adding an attraction super last minute isn't anything new. SFGAdv literally did that last year with Flash with just a few months of planning, so it's totally possible for CP to have done the same thing this years. It's likely that since SFM was having issues getting the coaster approved by the city (which is factual, they addressed it on their social media), CF executives likely decided to send it to another park instead and settled on CP.
Exactly. This dude completely missed that part. I don’t remember if the teasers said it would actually be a coaster, but there are documents that show SFM couldn’t get local approval to build the new ride because it would remove too many trees, and the park disputed those claims.
Thanks for the constructive comment. It's a good discussion. In this situation, what you're alluding to is that SFM brought a coaster on site prior to even getting permits filed for it. Not sure how things work in Mexico, but here in the US you file for permits after your initial design package, around 30-50% through the drawing process. Being an off-the-shelf design could expedite a portion of that, but things like concrete piles, civil design, station design and electrical feeders could not be. So the timeline there is that six flags shipped a coaster to Mexico and didn't onboarded firms to do that design after they already had it at the park. It's an equally weird timeline. And again, not impossible, just improbable in my eyes. So here's my thought. I think the six flag ride they were going to build In SFM is just unrelated entirely.
@@cedarpointless To clarify, it was not a permit issue, but rather an environmental issue. Again, SFM literally confirmed they would be building a new coaster for 2025, which they still have yet to announce. Them cancelling the coaster is far more probably than CF wasting tens of thousands of dollars to ship coaster track to Mexico for "pr reasons". Again, enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of a parks revenue, so it would make zero sense to spend thousands of dollars on shipping, especially to Mexico, just so 5% of the parks fans would be surprised at the announcement.
@@simplestu9449 you might be right in that their reasoning for sending the coaster to mexico might not be marketing related. It's a good point and is consistent with their behavior in the past Something to think about. People are saying that it's ridiculous that CP would pay the extra shipping charges to get the ride shipped to mexico first. But how is it not just as ridiculous that SFM would pay the millions to purchase a coaster and then thousands to ship it overseas to their parking lot without knowing whether or not they were going to be able to build it? It seems just as unlikely to me. I know that I wouldn't pay for a few hundred tons of steel to get shipped over if I wasn't sure I was going to be able to build it or not. If the SFM narrative is to be believed, it seems to me like a big failure of SFM management.
It is infact the one sitting in Mexico. 13 feet isn't much to change heck you can put the station higher. This ride was meant for Mexico but the locals fought it and a questionnaire was sent out kind of like a town hall meeting. Locals shot it down because of to many trees being removed. But yes this one was energylandias.
Your whole theory immediately falls apart when you find out that Cedar Point hasn't started construction (when historically Cedar Fair starts construction in early summer), they have 0 permits, and they didn't announce it until late September. I don't see how you would see all 3 of those and not think it's a late addition. Not to mention, Six Flags Mexico publicly confirmed they intended on building a coaster but they weren't able to get it approved by the city. It wasn't a case of them just storing it for Cedar Point. Also why would they store it in Mexico just to prevent it from leaking? That extra shipping would cost a ton of money and really just make no sense.
This is not the first time a ride opened late in the cedar fair chain. When kings island got snoopy soap box racers that opened over a month after the park opened for the year. Not only that but during top thrill 2’s opening Tony Clark mentions a contract being signed
@@CCA_ yeah I know stuff happens that causes delays, but they're always pretty active with construction. In this case there hasn't been any construction other than land clearing, I don't think this will open until July at the earliest. When it comes to the contract being signed, I think that was for something else but that got pushed back for this. He said that pre merger, meaning that that was for a different project, since this would not have been possible without the merger,
@@CCA_ maybe, but I think if the goal always was Cedar Point that it would've been announced at a normal time, and it would have a higher capacity. Cedar Point has always pushed manufacturers to have higher capacity, so them getting a custom coaster with only 2 24 person trains seems unlikely to me. I think the only time we'll know forsure is if track starts disappearing from Six Flags Mexico though.
I love CP as a park, and dont really care what reason they have to be adding something new. Theyve made some serious mistakes with manufacturers, but they always end up thrilling me somehow. Just happy to see even more thrills coming, for whatever reasons. Btw, I never gave a damn about Top Thrill, even before it's disasterous rebuild. So even if it never works, its no loss for me. There is SO much more to do there.
One correction to your proposed timeline: If the dorm project was pushed to 2022 after COVID, we would have seen teasers for it in late July 2021. The Dragster accident happened too late in the season (Aug 15) to prevent an official announcement for a new 2022 coaster. Here's how I'd amend this: COVID forced Cedar Point to delay "Siren's Curse" to 2024, prioritizing the dining revenue that the Boardwalk's Grand Pavilion would generate. 2022 may have been considered for the dorm coaster, but the park knew they'd get a higher near-term ROI from closing the Antique Cars for The Farmhouse. The 2024 opening year would also have given them time to discuss options with multiple manufacturers: Mack, B&M, Zamperla - even Gerstlauer, Intamin, and Vekoma. Then the Dragster incident hits. Cedar Point pivots from discussing a new family launched coaster to prioritizing a major overhaul of their tallest and fastest ride. During the 2022 season, when Dragster's launch and brake track is removed, they probably still foresee adding a family coaster in 2025, the year after "Dragster" reopens. But something changes. After Zamperla is picked (to save Iron Dragon, apparently), Cedar Point realizes they're assuming a lot of risk proving out the Lightning trains at the limits of their design speed. They recognize that TT2 will likely experience significant downtime in 2024, and decide that the nearby dorm plot will need to be filled with another thrill coaster to compensate. So, in early-mid 2023, they move the family launched coaster to the SNF / STR site (also recognizing the potential of a larger ride like Big Bear Mountain). And then, they look for a fairly compact, unique thrill coaster to fill the former dorm site. No need for 4 years of secrecy if Dragster's accident only delayed the dorm coaster from '24 to '25. And the announcement is only made in September of 2024 to take the edge off guest frustration that TT2 was closed for almost the entire season.
5:30 I once asked RMC in an online Q&A "how long is it between the initial agreement with the park to build a new coaster to official announcement of said coaster to the public?". They gave a range of 8 months to 2 years. While Vekoma and RMC are different coaster manufacturers, the time between Vekoma's initial agreement with Cedar Point to build Siren's Curse to the coaster's public announcement could still be less than 2 years.
Even if Cedar Point needed to apologize for TT2 it’d still probably be cheaper to give everyone in the city of Sandusky a heavy discounted season pass for 2025, or give them it for free instead of putting a roller coaster that would be there for a very long time and needing maintenance. This like getting a new dog or child as an apology.
I do believe this may be the same coaster that energy was supposed to get. The only real evidence it isn’t is the height difference. However, it is likely that energy was saying max height of the lift was 14x ft. tall. Once the coaster goes into the vertical position, the back car of the coaster train is roughly 10-12 feet higher than the highest piece of the lift hill. CP is likely claiming the coasters max height at the vertical position as the height
Nah. All good. I don't know anything. I had to look it up myself after I read your comment to see if there could be any credence to the theory. Thanks for adding to the conversation!
Cedar Point also has a history of flat-out lying about ride stats and records. They claim Wild Mouse goes 35mph when Zamperla states it goes 27mph. They claimed Steel Vengeance was the longest hybrid when The Ultimate was still operating. The marketing team often just says whatever.
i 100% believe this was planned. They tore down the old cedar dorms a couple seasons ago. Getting a project like trhis does not come overnight i agree!!.
Thanks for featuring my comment for your video! I love your channel and content. If you are right and this is a coaster that was planned over the last 2 or 3 years, why isn’t it opening on opening day 2025? And why is the color scheme completely wrong? And why was it announced so late in season? And why design it in a way that they need to move a road? And why open it during the same season when tt2 will actually open and overshadow it (by a lot). You are suggesting that six flags hid the coaster in Mexico, just to trick coaster enthusiasts? How much does that trick cost to needlessly move coaster parts to different countries just to trick online enthusiasts? That seems like a ridiculous waste of money. I agree I can’t explain the 10 feet height difference, my best guess is that the coaster still worked fine with a little more speed and height. So the height was raised 10 feet by cedar point request which ended up making the top speed higher than originally specified for the energylandia. By far the simplest explanation. Great video as always, love hearing your perspective.
Thanks for the constructive addition to the conversation! Very glad to hear you don't mind me featuring the comment. I was very worried you would take it personally, when that is definitely not how I meant it to be. I don't have answers to all of your questions, but I can at least give my thoughts on what I can. I don't think the color scheme is wrong. I just think it's bad. I don't think it was announced late in the season. This is a pretty typical time for seasonal parks to announce stuff. The dorms were demolished years ago. The road was always planned to be moved because they want to expand the park into that plot of land. As to why open in 2025, I think that's because that was their plan prior to TT2 breaking down. TT2 would have been a 2024 coaster, and this a 2025 coaster. Now, TT2 and Siren's Curse opening the same year is a coincidence. As to why open it later in the year, the only answer I can really come up with is that since the road must be moved, they can't start construction until the park officially closes on Nov 1, since cars need to access the road. And the construction timeline will dictate how long it will take, which happens to be a few months into the year. That's my best guess.
Some of the timeline points with Six Flags Mexico are genuinely fascinating. The SF / CF merger was announced on Nov 2 and closed July 1st. News that Energylandia canceled their Tilt coaster surfaced late in November, and photos of track pieces at Six Flags Mexico were posted in early July. Apparently, residents living near the park were taken aback by the rumors of a large coaster installation as no permits had been filed. It's not clear whether SFM had filed anything even after stating they'd build in an area that didn't require tree removal. So that part is at least consistent with SFM receiving coaster track that they weren't really intending to build. If Cedar Point decided to pick Energylandia's Tilt as a relatively cheap "secondhand" choice for the dorm site, they'd have needed to do site surveys late in the fall or early in the spring. Conveniently, this would have been overlooked by enthusiasts zeroing in on TT2 updates. The problem is that sending the track to Six Flags Mexico solely to throw enthusiasts off the trail seems... excessive. While CF and SF expected the merger to be cleared by Q2, there was the possibility it might not be approved until well into Q3. CF could have stored the track at, say, Kings Dominion instead. They'd have (some) enthusiasts second-guess the launched B&M leaked plans, and when Rapterra construction began, we'd assume it was going to KI or Carowinds instead. Still plenty of room to be very surprised it's going to CP, while keeping the track held on legacy CF property.
Thanks for this comment. This is kind of well thought out conversation I hope to start with my videos. A few things. First, I don't think the merger needs to be completed in order to store the track there. Really, they just need the permission to do so, which they could have easily gotten prior to the merger being complete. Second, I have a hard time believing SFM would move the coaster to their parking lot before even filing permits. I don't know how it works in Mexico, but here in the US, you have to have surveying done and a preliminary drawing set to file for permits, which means that they would have onboarded probably 2-3 different firms to do all this work after already having the coaster on-site. It's just a very weird order to do things. I think that the ride SFM got denied was unrelated to this entire situation. It's just the strange timing made it seem like it was the vekoma coaster.
I like some of what you are saying. But how could they possibly have this setup for years and pick this TERRIBLE color scheme? Perhaps their plans to use the dorm plot were screwed up by covid and TT. But this definitely seems like a sorta last minute purchase. Not saying it's a TT2 apology purchase. But it seems out of place (next to a dive) and oddly colored to be something they've had planned for even a little while. Hopefully the track gets painted black or something, quickly.
I mean it's not that badly colored. It's one of those subjective things so maybe some for years thought those color's were good. I honestly do think that coaster was probably planned out a bit.
I don't disagree that I think the color scheme feels a bit odd, but I really don't feel like that's a big enough detail that anyone should get hung up on it. Color schemes can feel very random sometimes. And yes, I do want to clarify, as I breezed past it a little fast in the script. I'm not saying that this exact coaster was always the plan. But, I am saying that I think this coaster was given the same amount of time and attention that they would give to any other new development, which has usually been 2-3 years. For me, my background is in engineering for construction. And from my experience, I have a hard time believing that the firms they hire can put drawings together that quickly. The industry just does not move that fast, generally speaking.
@@cedarpointless I do agree odd color scheme but lets be real cedarpoint and most local regional amusement parks are definitely not know for color color schemes. Like I'd argue raguaru is a really ugly color that bright green and brown looks like shit. It looked wayyyyyyy better with the Manis colors.....
@@cedarpointless.....wasn't the flash at sfgav a last minute purchase? While it's rare (last minute rollercoasters) it seems to have been done before. Especially when the model was supposed to go up somewhere else and then the project/coaster was bought by a complete different park.
The fact is. I work here. and yes cedar point yes faced major lose due to cov 19. But, also many people lose faith, trust in cedar point after the top thrill a accident. Which also made people lose faith or trust in the park or their safety of the rides. Which now is causing attendance to drop. But, cedar point goal is to get back on top with being the top park of the rollercoaster capital of the world.
4:50 I always have completely disagreed with that thought. TTD still would have been slated in the long-term plan to be modified into ‘24 TT2 whether there was a ‘21 accident or not. The accident shut it down earlier imho (I was there the day it happened and walked behind the paramedics truck as it pulled in thru the maintenance gate). I don't have the ability to talk in front of a camera like yourself otherwise I'd do a video elaborating on the topic. (The best I could do is type subtitles like I have in some videos. Voice overs are hard to do and well my old Turtle Beach headset broke lol) So I'll be brief, the bottom line Cedar Point always has had planning and budgeting. If anyone follows what they've done including Live E! budgets in recent years, then it fits in place. And they had success repurposing Mean Streak into Steel Vengeance. TTD was getting old. I rode both. I liked TTD better. TT2 was very rough in the straightaways especially the return track. As far as Siren's Curse. I believe a new '25 coaster was slated for that area that's been empty for quite a while being used for Monster Trucks, Food Trucks and temporary rental bleachers for the night show. The main stage is being removed for a wider midway. The construction fence they just put up ironically creates a bottle neck. They had a choice of coasters. Went with one that was unique enough that's not at many other parks. They probably would have Vekoma build one. But they already had one "in stock". Probably costs less. If you don't mind non-themed paint lol
Love your take here! I can concede that they may have had something in their grand scheme planned for tt1, I still am not sold it was going to be any near 2024. But I'm glad we can have different opinions and still have good conversations about it. You should make your own video on it!
@@cedarpointless Thanks for the encouragement! yeah I could elaborate on the second paragraph that I have good budgetary and planning logic that fits '24 and '25 into it. I could reasonably go back to '16. It seems coaster enthusiast most often overlook budgets & planning other than coasters. With that being said I'm glad CP is a roller coaster capital of the world and look forward to a smoother TT2 and Siren's Curse.
Could be completely wrong, but I don't think CP was looking to overhaul Dragster with LSMs and a 420' reverse spike. They probably wanted to wait until Xcelerator's refurb was finished before doing a similar upgrade to the hydraulic launch. That said, I do think park management wanted a family launched coaster on the dorm site. At minimum, this would have involved discussions with Gerstlauer, Mack, Intamin, and/or Zamperla, and options for fixing Dragster could have come up then as well. So, by the time of the accident, they probably had backup approaches in mind if upgrades to the hydraulic launch weren't sufficient.
People may not realize that a park has multiple projects going on simultaneously with different years as completion dates. When the world ends for 18 months and you need to pivot, you don't mess up all your projects because there are contracts and licenses and permits and you need to stay on schedule. You only disrupt the least amount of all that stuff as necessary. Project A pauses and gets postponed. Project B keeps going and the boardwalk wild mouse opens per plan. And so on. I'm curious if SF Mexico received any Vekoma supplies for any of their other rides about that time. Ship it all to one place to get it in company hands and them move it to the build site later when it is time. Where at Cedar Point would you storage a coaster for several months if you weren't ready to start construction yet????
I don’t think you are 100% accurate, but I think this is probably the most reasonable assumption of what happened, and the most believable theory I’ve heard yet!
I don't think I'm 100% accurate either. Building stuff of this size and cost is a complex project. But I just felt like the narrative I was seeing could just not be the entire story. So I'm glad I was able to get this conversation going for people.
Interesting idea, this is just as likely as the other popular idea of what happened. I wonder if this situation happened to any other parks because of Covid like kings island who didn’t continue their every 3 year coaster addition after 2020. Anyways, great video I also love your outro.
KDs plans were set back due to covid by at least a year as well. I remember seeing stuff an amusement insiders in how they were predicting a volcano style wing coaster for 25 right around the time that rumors of KDs 25 wing coaster were pretty much confirmed and how the guy who runs the channel was spouting conspiracies about how KD essentially stole the wing coaster that was intended for Canada's wonderland especially when it became evident that they were getting a premiere rides LSM coaster instead. Unfortunately for many people they don't seem to realize that these rides are planned out years in advance as it takes time to design a specific attraction for a specific park although sometimes plans change for various reasons. For instance back when the vekoma flying Dutchman coaster was being developed paramount parks actually assisted vekoma in designing the prototype model for great America and entered into an exclusive contract with vekoma to exclusively install the model in at least three of their parks but after the prototype proved to be a maintenance and operational nightmare paramount parks canceled the order for the two additional installations and six flags picked them up last minute choosing to install them at the parks closest to the originally intended parks with batwing going to SFA and X flight going to six flags Ohio. KD was supposed to get batwing but chose to install the thrust air prototype originally planned for CGA while KI was supposed to receive X flight.. From what I've heard the main reason why the tilt coaster which was originally intended for six flags Mexico was ultimately canceled was because the park couldn't get the building permits necessary to install the ride....I highly doubt that CP was given this ride just because the dragster redesign was a failure (at least at this point) because these rides are complex machines after all and neither the park nor the manufacturer could have forseen the sudden technical issues that the ride is currently facing.
Yes. We enthusiasts need to remember that TT2 is a business decision. New trains, LSMs, and a spike are **cheaper** than removing and replacing the entire coaster with, say, a massive Mack XSC. Despite all the re-engineering Zamperla's Lightning trains needed, this is still more cost-effective than scrapping Dragster entirely. Cedar Point would have decided to add a Tilt no matter how TT2 performed. Announcing it late just makes it look like a consolation prize for passholders.
You're totally right that covid played a part in this. What I don't get, and it's relatively minor, is the color scheme. It's basically the same as TT2, Maverick, and Magnum. I saw elsewhere that the new Mexico coaster was supposed to have a Harley Quinn theme. Her primary colors from the comics/movies are red and grey, and pink and green, the colors of now Siren's Curse. There is still something a little fishy about this. There's also the fact that this is a non-custom design, which is usually not Cedar Point's style, except for smaller coasters. And, that this doesn't seem to be opening on opening day, but early summer. It's likely they had the land surveyed and ready to go for a similar coaster, but the Mexico coaster being available suddenly changed their plans, and with a little extra time, they could get this ready for a fraction of the cost.
You are absolutely correct. The color scheme is the outlier. However, a few years ago there is footage of a tilt-coaster being built in Vekoma's work yard that they said was "for a park". That coaster was red, but was a different shade, had brown supports and different trains. So if that was supposed to be the coaster that ended up here, either way it's been repainted to red and gray. Side note, I don't think I've ever seen Harley's colors ever be red and gray. Always red and black. So even then, red and gray are not the color choice I'd expect for a Harley Quinn coaster.
I think your hypothesis checks out. Covid messed up everything (whammy) then the park reopened and then the accident happened (double whammy) so everything you said is highly plausible!
1. Red track. It wasn't supposed to go to CP. 2. Generic model. It wasn't designed for that piece of land. 3. Marketing. There was zero indication of a new ride coming to that piece of land. And the marketing was thrown together with little thought. 4. Top Thrill. This was an unplanned addition. Top Thrill was their plan, that failed. This is a way to mitigate the damage caused by the failure of Top Thrill. 5. Opening Date. This ride is slated for a summer opening. There's zero site prep at the time of announcement, and a late opening date. Nothing at all gives credence to this being the plan or expectation for that piece of land at this time. Nothing.
Agree that a Vekoma Tilt wasn't intended for this site. The announcement animation has the park background rendered horribly during the tilt sequence, so that was probably made on short notice. Some type of launched family coaster would have been a better fit, maybe one themed to jet skis. CP was planning to take a break from major thrill coasters after opening SteVe. This would have involved discussions with (if not proposals from) Intamin, Zamperla, B&M, and even Vekoma. That said, I don't think CP rushed this plan through in July and August. They knew in 2023 that they were taking on a major risk picking Zamperla for Dragster's overhaul. And they knew that if it experienced **extended downtime** adding another unique thrill coaster nearby would help stem their losses. So they looked for coasters with track built, but that had a contract revoked. SFM's Tilt ended up being the most convenient option that fit the site. My guess is that the launched family coaster proposal is being expanded and moving to the island, with Frontier Fling closing to open up that area more.
I don't know.....seems kind of crazy that the company worth $8 billion is trying to appologize to anyone. They demolished the old dorm and cleared that land years ago. It clearly was a planned location for a roller coaster.
Right, it's enthusiast ego thinking management is panicking about season pass sales. In reality, CP knew 2 years ago that TT2 would likely experience extended downtime as Zamperla worked out the kinks of their Lightning trains. So they needed another thrill coaster nearby to help the park handle that downtime. I imagine they were following that Tilt track closely as soon as it arrived at SFM.
Great video and finally a different view point other than they typical conspiracy videos. Only thing I don't necessarily agree with is shipping the track to SFM. That's quite the process dealing with shipping with three different countries, from the Netherlands, to Mexico to the US. I think this ride was for Mexico and Cedar Point had a site already prepped for something eventually and it was just an easy fit. I don't think TT2 has anything to do with this new ride being installed.
Cedar Point was going to add something to the dorm site for '25, or '26 at the latest. But Dragster's closure probably forced them to pivot from their original plan, maybe a launched family coaster. CP could not count on TT2 to be a reliable "tentpole", so a unique thrill coaster nearby was needed. They probably started searching for a model in early 2023, if not late 2022. Siren's Curse was a response to Dragster's accident. But that's only because Dragster was inherently unreliable for the park. And Zamperla had their work cut out proving the Lightning trains could handle running on a strata.
So I think Brandon made one of his videos and many other channels just ran with it. I like your take on this good as it is unique. Sadly, this youtuber is know to not have the best Intel and run with it, allegedly of course.
@cedarpointless Yeah, I put out some of my first videos on Siren's Curse teaser and announcement. Some channels are a lot louder than others keep getting your content out there. We need people who will look outside the box and not follow the heard.
nah sorry man, your theory is completely false. nothing suggests there was ANY planning for this addition. I mean, just take a look at the original teaser for it, that would be the laziest and lamest direction if this was a thought-out addition. plus there is no way Cedar Point could have a coaster under wraps/hidden from the public for all these years, someone would've leaked the permits, and even park employees are dumbfounded by this sudden addition. 100% an apology for TT2 and to make people happy also, Six Flags Mexico annouced a new coaster but the city didnt allow it to be built due to tree removal, so they needed a park to send it to last minute (Cedar Point)
Love what youre saying here. It has always seemed naive and emotionally driven to believe this some kind of TT2 apology or whatever. I literally keep saying TT2 2025 is the "apology" no one is owed.
Yes. When TT1 had its incident, their PR response was to take the ride out of service immediately to determine the best path to get the ride operational again safely. When TT2 had its failure, their PR response was to take the ride out of service immediately to determine the best path to get the ride operational again safely. Their response has been the same both times and yet people are expecting that Siren's Curse is supposed to be the "real" apology. It's a very odd narrative to me. I think it's largely driven by what I feel is people's strong dislike of Zamperla.
@@cedarpointless the weird thing about Zamperla hate is I've seen it before and I don't quite understand, but how about this.... I've always listened to the talk shows on WMMS (if you're familiar) and every once in awhile there's a minor staff change like phone screener. People always hate the person who is not the one they miss doing the job, if that makes sense. Human nature I suppose?
That's because they are variations of an off-the-shelf layout. Six flags qiddiya has concept art showing one of these in their park with the same layout as well.
Yes and no. As of now, there are no other parks sharing this layout. Since energylandia fell through, from what I can tell qiddiya is the only other park slated to get this layout. Which I don't think is a particularly big deal as long as the coaster is really good. And for me, the layout looks fantastic. If this became a layout that was in 16 parks, then yeah it would be a bit disappointing. But that's not the case currently. We don't know if any other coaster will end up actually getting built with this layout in the end.
Enthusiasts are coping about this addition because they didn't predict it. They missed it. Which is why they're making up speculation like "it was meant for Six Flags Mexico!!!1!!1!!!!" or "it was a last-minute addition to make up for Top Thrill 2!!!1!!1!!". They're making these things up because they want to feel validated that know the ride's history/planning process, since they missed it during the ACTUAL planning process. They want to feel smart and "in the know." They want to feel like they know more than the general public. But they didn't in this case, and I find that absolutely hilarious. Enthusiasts had the wool pulled over their eyes by the park, just like the rest of the general public. They were surprised like everyone else, and they didn't like that because they want to feel smarter than everyone else. Really goes to show that being an "enthusiast" holds no significance in the real world. These rides take years to plan for and develop. Cedar Point did not "steal" anything from anyone, this ride was designed for Cedar Point. Do I think perhaps the ride was pushed to 2025 to make up for TT2's failure? Maybe. It could've been a 2026 addition, who knows. But it was always meant for Cedar Point. It has been in the works for years.
i mean, this ride was a big game of hot potato. energylandia ran out of funds, sfm couldnt cut the trees down, so they put it at cedar point. there was never much of a plan to begin with
@@triple7marc ..no? the coaster was a last-minute decision. its confirmed it was shipped to cedar point a couple months prior to the announcement. sfm had the coaster, and lost funds for it because the gov't didnt wanna have them cut more trees down. source: wikipedia
Attendance, and revenue are definitely down from what they would have been predicted. I cancelled my plans this year to go to cedar point and I’m sure I wasn’t alone.
I think the number of people that plan their entire purpose of a trip around a single new ride is a very small minority. Like probably low single-digit percentages.
I don’t even know if it’s even low single digit percentages. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s less than one percent of people would cancel their trip over one ride. Most people are either local and go every year regardless or are the roller coaster equivalent of planning Disney/universal trips. Neither of those demographics are going to make a decision over one ride. There’s a very small demographic that tries to hit the new rides around the country or world each year and that’s really the only type of person that would cancel over one ride but that group is like maybe 1% of enthusiasts which is already a smaller demographic than the general public. They probably lost like 1000 visitors total for the entire season tops it just so happens that 1000 visitors are quite vocal like the original commenter here.
@@indyllc2394 probably not, last year broke there attendance record, this year was by far busier. If the weather holds up for hollow weekends there going to crush last year's record
The vast majority of people saw that TT2 was down, turned the corner at Magnum (maybe even hopping on), passed Gemini, and got in line for Maverick. They're disappointed, yeah, but not outraged enough to let it ruin their day. Siren's Curse is an insurance policy for low capacity on TT2, NOT low season pass sales.
Some quick notes: This video is all conjecture. I don't know how this ride came to be. I'm just talking about it in the way that I see it based on what I know, but I may not know everything. If someone has more real insight, please share below. Would like to open the constructive conversation about this more. Additionally, while I highlighted a commenter from a previous video as the catalyst for making this video, I want to be clear that this video is about the larger conversation I'm seeing about this ride, and not about him specifically.
The most likely explanation to me is Six Flags bought Energylandia's Tilt at a discount, as the merger began, knowing there were several parks that could potentially receive it. Even if the merger somehow fell through, they could remove Ninja at SFSTL and build it there. (As an absolute last resort, naturally)
Six Flags Mexico would have been a convenient place to store it as (1) shipping costs within Mexico would be lower than for a US park (2) the park has received two relocated coasters recently, reducing suspicion, and (3) the enthusiast base there isn't as connected to enthusiasts in the US and Canada.
I do think the decision to add it to Cedar Point specifically was made relatively late. I suppose multiple parks could have been surveyed during the 2023 off-season to allow for a handful of candidates. But it's tough to see how CP had planned to add a Tilt coaster for years but only got one secondhand via Six Flags Mexico, when that purchase was made before the merger was approved.
Also, I imagine Cedar Point was considering some type of launched family coaster for this plot. It's a much more obvious gap in their lineup than another vertical drop coaster with inversions. Plus, since it's next to the marina, a jet ski theme would have been perfect. It would extend the lakeside theme from the Boardwalk to the west side of the peninsula.
One small problem: CP doesn't want to work with the top manufacturer of that model, Intamin. And Zamperla hasn't built a MotoCoaster longer than 1500 feet. So they wait to see what B&M and Vekoma do on that front, while working with Zamperla on a new spinning Wild Mouse. If any CF park were to get a coaster like Penguin Trek or Big Bear Mountain, it'd be CP.
Ultimately, when Energylandia's Tilt became available, CP was the biggest park with an unoccupied flat plot big enough for it. So that's where it went. Fortunately, this clears the way for Corkscrew to close relatively soon, which might be replaced by a Vekoma straddle coaster when they finally design new trains for that.
P.S. I don't want to sound like I disagree with most of your theory. It definitely makes sense that CP would have wanted to fill this site much sooner - potentially with the Wild Mouse and flat rides, even. Maybe closing Wicked Twister for the Boardwalk wasn't the original plan. And Grand Pavilion was prioritized post-COVID to generate more dining revenue. I just have a hard time believing that a thrill coaster with a highly-anticipated vertical drop next to Valravn was planned much more than a year in advance.
Anyway, great video, man - keep up the awesome work!!
I really appreciate the constructive conversation! This is great.
I think you're talking about something that is possible as well. It's something I considered but didn't really talk about in the video. So I guess I can mirror you here with my alternate theory.
CP originally planned for something else to be in this plot. With covid, they cancelled those plans and then ended up having their budget strained when money they were going to spend on the new coaster ended up being needed to fix TT1. So around 2023 they started shopping around for a cheaper option than whatever they were going to build here, and settled on the off-the-shelf tilt coaster sometime in fall of 23. It still makes it relatively last-minute, as you said, but not the kind of "panic mode" decision like some want to believe.
@@cedarpointless Exactly. No regional theme park makes a $10,000,000+ investment out of sheer panic - definitely not Cedar Point. Hope we get a documentary on Siren's Curse in a few years and find out what options were actually considered before landing on a Tilt.
Something to note that you missed was that SFM DID confirm that they would be getting a new roller coaster for 2025, even going as far to provide an announcement date for the new attraction. However, the park would later take down that post, the ride would never be announced, and a few weeks after the SFM attraction was supposed to be announced CP announced their new attraction. It seems kind of counter intuitive for a park to ship parts for a coaster to a park in a completely different country just to throw people off of the scent. Mind you, coaster enthusiasts only make up a small percentage of the parks attendees, and so PR wise, it wouldn't really accomplish much as most of the GP wouldn't care enough to warrant shipping a ride to a whole other country. Also, adding an attraction super last minute isn't anything new. SFGAdv literally did that last year with Flash with just a few months of planning, so it's totally possible for CP to have done the same thing this years. It's likely that since SFM was having issues getting the coaster approved by the city (which is factual, they addressed it on their social media), CF executives likely decided to send it to another park instead and settled on CP.
Exactly. This dude completely missed that part. I don’t remember if the teasers said it would actually be a coaster, but there are documents that show SFM couldn’t get local approval to build the new ride because it would remove too many trees, and the park disputed those claims.
Thanks for the constructive comment. It's a good discussion.
In this situation, what you're alluding to is that SFM brought a coaster on site prior to even getting permits filed for it. Not sure how things work in Mexico, but here in the US you file for permits after your initial design package, around 30-50% through the drawing process. Being an off-the-shelf design could expedite a portion of that, but things like concrete piles, civil design, station design and electrical feeders could not be. So the timeline there is that six flags shipped a coaster to Mexico and didn't onboarded firms to do that design after they already had it at the park. It's an equally weird timeline. And again, not impossible, just improbable in my eyes.
So here's my thought. I think the six flag ride they were going to build In SFM is just unrelated entirely.
@@cedarpointlessSix has BUILT AND OPERATED rides without proper permits
@@cedarpointless To clarify, it was not a permit issue, but rather an environmental issue. Again, SFM literally confirmed they would be building a new coaster for 2025, which they still have yet to announce. Them cancelling the coaster is far more probably than CF wasting tens of thousands of dollars to ship coaster track to Mexico for "pr reasons". Again, enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of a parks revenue, so it would make zero sense to spend thousands of dollars on shipping, especially to Mexico, just so 5% of the parks fans would be surprised at the announcement.
@@simplestu9449 you might be right in that their reasoning for sending the coaster to mexico might not be marketing related. It's a good point and is consistent with their behavior in the past
Something to think about. People are saying that it's ridiculous that CP would pay the extra shipping charges to get the ride shipped to mexico first. But how is it not just as ridiculous that SFM would pay the millions to purchase a coaster and then thousands to ship it overseas to their parking lot without knowing whether or not they were going to be able to build it? It seems just as unlikely to me. I know that I wouldn't pay for a few hundred tons of steel to get shipped over if I wasn't sure I was going to be able to build it or not. If the SFM narrative is to be believed, it seems to me like a big failure of SFM management.
It is infact the one sitting in Mexico. 13 feet isn't much to change heck you can put the station higher. This ride was meant for Mexico but the locals fought it and a questionnaire was sent out kind of like a town hall meeting. Locals shot it down because of to many trees being removed. But yes this one was energylandias.
Your whole theory immediately falls apart when you find out that Cedar Point hasn't started construction (when historically Cedar Fair starts construction in early summer), they have 0 permits, and they didn't announce it until late September. I don't see how you would see all 3 of those and not think it's a late addition.
Not to mention, Six Flags Mexico publicly confirmed they intended on building a coaster but they weren't able to get it approved by the city. It wasn't a case of them just storing it for Cedar Point. Also why would they store it in Mexico just to prevent it from leaking? That extra shipping would cost a ton of money and really just make no sense.
This is not the first time a ride opened late in the cedar fair chain. When kings island got snoopy soap box racers that opened over a month after the park opened for the year. Not only that but during top thrill 2’s opening Tony Clark mentions a contract being signed
@@CCA_ yeah I know stuff happens that causes delays, but they're always pretty active with construction. In this case there hasn't been any construction other than land clearing, I don't think this will open until July at the earliest.
When it comes to the contract being signed, I think that was for something else but that got pushed back for this. He said that pre merger, meaning that that was for a different project, since this would not have been possible without the merger,
@@namevone my point in the contract is that it isn’t Mexico’s coaster. Maybe they got a deal since snoopy’s soap box racers is also a Vekoma.
@@CCA_ maybe, but I think if the goal always was Cedar Point that it would've been announced at a normal time, and it would have a higher capacity. Cedar Point has always pushed manufacturers to have higher capacity, so them getting a custom coaster with only 2 24 person trains seems unlikely to me.
I think the only time we'll know forsure is if track starts disappearing from Six Flags Mexico though.
@@namevone yeah
I love CP as a park, and dont really care what reason they have to be adding something new. Theyve made some serious mistakes with manufacturers, but they always end up thrilling me somehow. Just happy to see even more thrills coming, for whatever reasons. Btw, I never gave a damn about Top Thrill, even before it's disasterous rebuild. So even if it never works, its no loss for me. There is SO much more to do there.
One correction to your proposed timeline: If the dorm project was pushed to 2022 after COVID, we would have seen teasers for it in late July 2021. The Dragster accident happened too late in the season (Aug 15) to prevent an official announcement for a new 2022 coaster.
Here's how I'd amend this: COVID forced Cedar Point to delay "Siren's Curse" to 2024, prioritizing the dining revenue that the Boardwalk's Grand Pavilion would generate. 2022 may have been considered for the dorm coaster, but the park knew they'd get a higher near-term ROI from closing the Antique Cars for The Farmhouse. The 2024 opening year would also have given them time to discuss options with multiple manufacturers: Mack, B&M, Zamperla - even Gerstlauer, Intamin, and Vekoma.
Then the Dragster incident hits. Cedar Point pivots from discussing a new family launched coaster to prioritizing a major overhaul of their tallest and fastest ride. During the 2022 season, when Dragster's launch and brake track is removed, they probably still foresee adding a family coaster in 2025, the year after "Dragster" reopens.
But something changes. After Zamperla is picked (to save Iron Dragon, apparently), Cedar Point realizes they're assuming a lot of risk proving out the Lightning trains at the limits of their design speed. They recognize that TT2 will likely experience significant downtime in 2024, and decide that the nearby dorm plot will need to be filled with another thrill coaster to compensate. So, in early-mid 2023, they move the family launched coaster to the SNF / STR site (also recognizing the potential of a larger ride like Big Bear Mountain). And then, they look for a fairly compact, unique thrill coaster to fill the former dorm site.
No need for 4 years of secrecy if Dragster's accident only delayed the dorm coaster from '24 to '25. And the announcement is only made in September of 2024 to take the edge off guest frustration that TT2 was closed for almost the entire season.
5:30 I once asked RMC in an online Q&A "how long is it between the initial agreement with the park to build a new coaster to official announcement of said coaster to the public?". They gave a range of 8 months to 2 years.
While Vekoma and RMC are different coaster manufacturers, the time between Vekoma's initial agreement with Cedar Point to build Siren's Curse to the coaster's public announcement could still be less than 2 years.
Even if Cedar Point needed to apologize for TT2 it’d still probably be cheaper to give everyone in the city of Sandusky a heavy discounted season pass for 2025, or give them it for free instead of putting a roller coaster that would be there for a very long time and needing maintenance. This like getting a new dog or child as an apology.
Only 750 subs???? I though you had 750k lol that's how good your video quality is
I do believe this may be the same coaster that energy was supposed to get. The only real evidence it isn’t is the height difference. However, it is likely that energy was saying max height of the lift was 14x ft. tall. Once the coaster goes into the vertical position, the back car of the coaster train is roughly 10-12 feet higher than the highest piece of the lift hill. CP is likely claiming the coasters max height at the vertical position as the height
Cedar Point is stating the height of the tower as 160 feet. This doesn't quite seem to like up with what you are saying
@@cedarpointless my bad. It was just a theory. Didn’t know you knew everything.
Nah. All good. I don't know anything. I had to look it up myself after I read your comment to see if there could be any credence to the theory. Thanks for adding to the conversation!
@@cedarpointless but the top of the lift and turn are visibly lower than Rougaro. The highest point of the tilt track in the vertical is taller.
Cedar Point also has a history of flat-out lying about ride stats and records. They claim Wild Mouse goes 35mph when Zamperla states it goes 27mph. They claimed Steel Vengeance was the longest hybrid when The Ultimate was still operating. The marketing team often just says whatever.
i 100% believe this was planned. They tore down the old cedar dorms a couple seasons ago. Getting a project like trhis does not come overnight i agree!!.
Thanks for featuring my comment for your video! I love your channel and content.
If you are right and this is a coaster that was planned over the last 2 or 3 years, why isn’t it opening on opening day 2025? And why is the color scheme completely wrong? And why was it announced so late in season? And why design it in a way that they need to move a road? And why open it during the same season when tt2 will actually open and overshadow it (by a lot).
You are suggesting that six flags hid the coaster in Mexico, just to trick coaster enthusiasts? How much does that trick cost to needlessly move coaster parts to different countries just to trick online enthusiasts? That seems like a ridiculous waste of money.
I agree I can’t explain the 10 feet height difference, my best guess is that the coaster still worked fine with a little more speed and height. So the height was raised 10 feet by cedar point request which ended up making the top speed higher than originally specified for the energylandia.
By far the simplest explanation.
Great video as always, love hearing your perspective.
Thanks for the constructive addition to the conversation!
Very glad to hear you don't mind me featuring the comment. I was very worried you would take it personally, when that is definitely not how I meant it to be.
I don't have answers to all of your questions, but I can at least give my thoughts on what I can.
I don't think the color scheme is wrong. I just think it's bad. I don't think it was announced late in the season. This is a pretty typical time for seasonal parks to announce stuff. The dorms were demolished years ago. The road was always planned to be moved because they want to expand the park into that plot of land. As to why open in 2025, I think that's because that was their plan prior to TT2 breaking down. TT2 would have been a 2024 coaster, and this a 2025 coaster. Now, TT2 and Siren's Curse opening the same year is a coincidence. As to why open it later in the year, the only answer I can really come up with is that since the road must be moved, they can't start construction until the park officially closes on Nov 1, since cars need to access the road. And the construction timeline will dictate how long it will take, which happens to be a few months into the year. That's my best guess.
Some of the timeline points with Six Flags Mexico are genuinely fascinating. The SF / CF merger was announced on Nov 2 and closed July 1st. News that Energylandia canceled their Tilt coaster surfaced late in November, and photos of track pieces at Six Flags Mexico were posted in early July.
Apparently, residents living near the park were taken aback by the rumors of a large coaster installation as no permits had been filed. It's not clear whether SFM had filed anything even after stating they'd build in an area that didn't require tree removal. So that part is at least consistent with SFM receiving coaster track that they weren't really intending to build.
If Cedar Point decided to pick Energylandia's Tilt as a relatively cheap "secondhand" choice for the dorm site, they'd have needed to do site surveys late in the fall or early in the spring. Conveniently, this would have been overlooked by enthusiasts zeroing in on TT2 updates.
The problem is that sending the track to Six Flags Mexico solely to throw enthusiasts off the trail seems... excessive. While CF and SF expected the merger to be cleared by Q2, there was the possibility it might not be approved until well into Q3. CF could have stored the track at, say, Kings Dominion instead. They'd have (some) enthusiasts second-guess the launched B&M leaked plans, and when Rapterra construction began, we'd assume it was going to KI or Carowinds instead. Still plenty of room to be very surprised it's going to CP, while keeping the track held on legacy CF property.
Thanks for this comment. This is kind of well thought out conversation I hope to start with my videos.
A few things. First, I don't think the merger needs to be completed in order to store the track there. Really, they just need the permission to do so, which they could have easily gotten prior to the merger being complete.
Second, I have a hard time believing SFM would move the coaster to their parking lot before even filing permits. I don't know how it works in Mexico, but here in the US, you have to have surveying done and a preliminary drawing set to file for permits, which means that they would have onboarded probably 2-3 different firms to do all this work after already having the coaster on-site. It's just a very weird order to do things.
I think that the ride SFM got denied was unrelated to this entire situation. It's just the strange timing made it seem like it was the vekoma coaster.
I like some of what you are saying. But how could they possibly have this setup for years and pick this TERRIBLE color scheme? Perhaps their plans to use the dorm plot were screwed up by covid and TT. But this definitely seems like a sorta last minute purchase. Not saying it's a TT2 apology purchase. But it seems out of place (next to a dive) and oddly colored to be something they've had planned for even a little while. Hopefully the track gets painted black or something, quickly.
I mean it's not that badly colored. It's one of those subjective things so maybe some for years thought those color's were good.
I honestly do think that coaster was probably planned out a bit.
I don't disagree that I think the color scheme feels a bit odd, but I really don't feel like that's a big enough detail that anyone should get hung up on it. Color schemes can feel very random sometimes.
And yes, I do want to clarify, as I breezed past it a little fast in the script. I'm not saying that this exact coaster was always the plan. But, I am saying that I think this coaster was given the same amount of time and attention that they would give to any other new development, which has usually been 2-3 years. For me, my background is in engineering for construction. And from my experience, I have a hard time believing that the firms they hire can put drawings together that quickly. The industry just does not move that fast, generally speaking.
@@cedarpointless I do agree odd color scheme but lets be real cedarpoint and most local regional amusement parks are definitely not know for color color schemes.
Like I'd argue raguaru is a really ugly color that bright green and brown looks like shit.
It looked wayyyyyyy better with the Manis colors.....
@@cedarpointless also that's awesome to know your background
@@cedarpointless.....wasn't the flash at sfgav a last minute purchase? While it's rare (last minute rollercoasters) it seems to have been done before. Especially when the model was supposed to go up somewhere else and then the project/coaster was bought by a complete different park.
The fact is. I work here. and yes cedar point yes faced major lose due to cov 19. But, also many people lose faith, trust in cedar point after the top thrill a accident. Which also made people lose faith or trust in the park or their safety of the rides. Which now is causing attendance to drop. But, cedar point goal is to get back on top with being the top park of the rollercoaster capital of the world.
4:50 I always have completely disagreed with that thought. TTD still would have been slated in the long-term plan to be modified into ‘24 TT2 whether there was a ‘21 accident or not. The accident shut it down earlier imho (I was there the day it happened and walked behind the paramedics truck as it pulled in thru the maintenance gate). I don't have the ability to talk in front of a camera like yourself otherwise I'd do a video elaborating on the topic. (The best I could do is type subtitles like I have in some videos. Voice overs are hard to do and well my old Turtle Beach headset broke lol)
So I'll be brief, the bottom line Cedar Point always has had planning and budgeting. If anyone follows what they've done including Live E! budgets in recent years, then it fits in place. And they had success repurposing Mean Streak into Steel Vengeance. TTD was getting old. I rode both. I liked TTD better. TT2 was very rough in the straightaways especially the return track.
As far as Siren's Curse. I believe a new '25 coaster was slated for that area that's been empty for quite a while being used for Monster Trucks, Food Trucks and temporary rental bleachers for the night show. The main stage is being removed for a wider midway. The construction fence they just put up ironically creates a bottle neck. They had a choice of coasters. Went with one that was unique enough that's not at many other parks. They probably would have Vekoma build one. But they already had one "in stock". Probably costs less. If you don't mind non-themed paint lol
Love your take here! I can concede that they may have had something in their grand scheme planned for tt1, I still am not sold it was going to be any near 2024. But I'm glad we can have different opinions and still have good conversations about it.
You should make your own video on it!
@@cedarpointless Thanks for the encouragement! yeah I could elaborate on the second paragraph that I have good budgetary and planning logic that fits '24 and '25 into it. I could reasonably go back to '16. It seems coaster enthusiast most often overlook budgets & planning other than coasters. With that being said I'm glad CP is a roller coaster capital of the world and look forward to a smoother TT2 and Siren's Curse.
Could be completely wrong, but I don't think CP was looking to overhaul Dragster with LSMs and a 420' reverse spike. They probably wanted to wait until Xcelerator's refurb was finished before doing a similar upgrade to the hydraulic launch.
That said, I do think park management wanted a family launched coaster on the dorm site. At minimum, this would have involved discussions with Gerstlauer, Mack, Intamin, and/or Zamperla, and options for fixing Dragster could have come up then as well. So, by the time of the accident, they probably had backup approaches in mind if upgrades to the hydraulic launch weren't sufficient.
People may not realize that a park has multiple projects going on simultaneously with different years as completion dates. When the world ends for 18 months and you need to pivot, you don't mess up all your projects because there are contracts and licenses and permits and you need to stay on schedule. You only disrupt the least amount of all that stuff as necessary. Project A pauses and gets postponed. Project B keeps going and the boardwalk wild mouse opens per plan. And so on.
I'm curious if SF Mexico received any Vekoma supplies for any of their other rides about that time. Ship it all to one place to get it in company hands and them move it to the build site later when it is time. Where at Cedar Point would you storage a coaster for several months if you weren't ready to start construction yet????
I don’t think you are 100% accurate, but I think this is probably the most reasonable assumption of what happened, and the most believable theory I’ve heard yet!
I don't think I'm 100% accurate either. Building stuff of this size and cost is a complex project. But I just felt like the narrative I was seeing could just not be the entire story. So I'm glad I was able to get this conversation going for people.
I mean we will never know, but projects take time to plan. If the $$$ was there it could have gone either way. Great video!
They were going to do something to Dragster before the accident. It wasn’t sustainable.
Interesting idea, this is just as likely as the other popular idea of what happened. I wonder if this situation happened to any other parks because of Covid like kings island who didn’t continue their every 3 year coaster addition after 2020. Anyways, great video I also love your outro.
Thanks for the compliment on the outro!
I'm glad at least one other person doesn't think I'm crazy.
KDs plans were set back due to covid by at least a year as well.
I remember seeing stuff an amusement insiders in how they were predicting a volcano style wing coaster for 25 right around the time that rumors of KDs 25 wing coaster were pretty much confirmed and how the guy who runs the channel was spouting conspiracies about how KD essentially stole the wing coaster that was intended for Canada's wonderland especially when it became evident that they were getting a premiere rides LSM coaster instead.
Unfortunately for many people they don't seem to realize that these rides are planned out years in advance as it takes time to design a specific attraction for a specific park although sometimes plans change for various reasons.
For instance back when the vekoma flying Dutchman coaster was being developed paramount parks actually assisted vekoma in designing the prototype model for great America and entered into an exclusive contract with vekoma to exclusively install the model in at least three of their parks but after the prototype proved to be a maintenance and operational nightmare paramount parks canceled the order for the two additional installations and six flags picked them up last minute choosing to install them at the parks closest to the originally intended parks with batwing going to SFA and X flight going to six flags Ohio. KD was supposed to get batwing but chose to install the thrust air prototype originally planned for CGA while KI was supposed to receive X flight..
From what I've heard the main reason why the tilt coaster which was originally intended for six flags Mexico was ultimately canceled was because the park couldn't get the building permits necessary to install the ride....I highly doubt that CP was given this ride just because the dragster redesign was a failure (at least at this point) because these rides are complex machines after all and neither the park nor the manufacturer could have forseen the sudden technical issues that the ride is currently facing.
Yes. We enthusiasts need to remember that TT2 is a business decision. New trains, LSMs, and a spike are **cheaper** than removing and replacing the entire coaster with, say, a massive Mack XSC.
Despite all the re-engineering Zamperla's Lightning trains needed, this is still more cost-effective than scrapping Dragster entirely. Cedar Point would have decided to add a Tilt no matter how TT2 performed. Announcing it late just makes it look like a consolation prize for passholders.
This is absolutely what I believe. There was always a coaster in this plan. Having TT2 be down was not.
You're totally right that covid played a part in this. What I don't get, and it's relatively minor, is the color scheme. It's basically the same as TT2, Maverick, and Magnum. I saw elsewhere that the new Mexico coaster was supposed to have a Harley Quinn theme. Her primary colors from the comics/movies are red and grey, and pink and green, the colors of now Siren's Curse. There is still something a little fishy about this. There's also the fact that this is a non-custom design, which is usually not Cedar Point's style, except for smaller coasters. And, that this doesn't seem to be opening on opening day, but early summer. It's likely they had the land surveyed and ready to go for a similar coaster, but the Mexico coaster being available suddenly changed their plans, and with a little extra time, they could get this ready for a fraction of the cost.
You are absolutely correct. The color scheme is the outlier. However, a few years ago there is footage of a tilt-coaster being built in Vekoma's work yard that they said was "for a park". That coaster was red, but was a different shade, had brown supports and different trains. So if that was supposed to be the coaster that ended up here, either way it's been repainted to red and gray.
Side note, I don't think I've ever seen Harley's colors ever be red and gray. Always red and black. So even then, red and gray are not the color choice I'd expect for a Harley Quinn coaster.
Remember management changes after merger, so a lot of old traditions will change with Cedar Point! We all are surprised!
I think your hypothesis checks out. Covid messed up everything (whammy) then the park reopened and then the accident happened (double whammy) so everything you said is highly plausible!
1. Red track. It wasn't supposed to go to CP.
2. Generic model. It wasn't designed for that piece of land.
3. Marketing. There was zero indication of a new ride coming to that piece of land. And the marketing was thrown together with little thought.
4. Top Thrill. This was an unplanned addition. Top Thrill was their plan, that failed. This is a way to mitigate the damage caused by the failure of Top Thrill.
5. Opening Date. This ride is slated for a summer opening. There's zero site prep at the time of announcement, and a late opening date.
Nothing at all gives credence to this being the plan or expectation for that piece of land at this time. Nothing.
Agree that a Vekoma Tilt wasn't intended for this site. The announcement animation has the park background rendered horribly during the tilt sequence, so that was probably made on short notice. Some type of launched family coaster would have been a better fit, maybe one themed to jet skis. CP was planning to take a break from major thrill coasters after opening SteVe. This would have involved discussions with (if not proposals from) Intamin, Zamperla, B&M, and even Vekoma.
That said, I don't think CP rushed this plan through in July and August. They knew in 2023 that they were taking on a major risk picking Zamperla for Dragster's overhaul. And they knew that if it experienced **extended downtime** adding another unique thrill coaster nearby would help stem their losses. So they looked for coasters with track built, but that had a contract revoked. SFM's Tilt ended up being the most convenient option that fit the site.
My guess is that the launched family coaster proposal is being expanded and moving to the island, with Frontier Fling closing to open up that area more.
I think this should be a good opportunity for the park to re-imagine the locker situation for TT2.
I don't know.....seems kind of crazy that the company worth $8 billion is trying to appologize to anyone. They demolished the old dorm and cleared that land years ago. It clearly was a planned location for a roller coaster.
Right, it's enthusiast ego thinking management is panicking about season pass sales.
In reality, CP knew 2 years ago that TT2 would likely experience extended downtime as Zamperla worked out the kinks of their Lightning trains. So they needed another thrill coaster nearby to help the park handle that downtime. I imagine they were following that Tilt track closely as soon as it arrived at SFM.
This is the coaster that was going to energylandia and then to Mexico ....SMH NEXT.....
Great video and finally a different view point other than they typical conspiracy videos. Only thing I don't necessarily agree with is shipping the track to SFM. That's quite the process dealing with shipping with three different countries, from the Netherlands, to Mexico to the US. I think this ride was for Mexico and Cedar Point had a site already prepped for something eventually and it was just an easy fit. I don't think TT2 has anything to do with this new ride being installed.
Cedar Point was going to add something to the dorm site for '25, or '26 at the latest. But Dragster's closure probably forced them to pivot from their original plan, maybe a launched family coaster. CP could not count on TT2 to be a reliable "tentpole", so a unique thrill coaster nearby was needed. They probably started searching for a model in early 2023, if not late 2022.
Siren's Curse was a response to Dragster's accident. But that's only because Dragster was inherently unreliable for the park. And Zamperla had their work cut out proving the Lightning trains could handle running on a strata.
So I think Brandon made one of his videos and many other channels just ran with it. I like your take on this good as it is unique. Sadly, this youtuber is know to not have the best Intel and run with it, allegedly of course.
I think, like many communities, the coaster community can get a lot of group-think that happens where everyone believes the same thing.
@cedarpointless Yeah, I put out some of my first videos on Siren's Curse teaser and announcement. Some channels are a lot louder than others keep getting your content out there. We need people who will look outside the box and not follow the heard.
nah sorry man, your theory is completely false. nothing suggests there was ANY planning for this addition. I mean, just take a look at the original teaser for it, that would be the laziest and lamest direction if this was a thought-out addition. plus there is no way Cedar Point could have a coaster under wraps/hidden from the public for all these years, someone would've leaked the permits, and even park employees are dumbfounded by this sudden addition.
100% an apology for TT2 and to make people happy
also, Six Flags Mexico annouced a new coaster but the city didnt allow it to be built due to tree removal, so they needed a park to send it to last minute (Cedar Point)
I think you are right.
Thank you. I'm glad I'm not crazy 🤣
Or the coaster is built 12 feet off the ground at its lowest point to make it 160 ft high. 🤷
Then the track wouldn't go very low to the ground, which is goes even below grade in the renders.
Love what youre saying here.
It has always seemed naive and emotionally driven to believe this some kind of TT2 apology or whatever. I literally keep saying TT2 2025 is the "apology" no one is owed.
Yes. When TT1 had its incident, their PR response was to take the ride out of service immediately to determine the best path to get the ride operational again safely. When TT2 had its failure, their PR response was to take the ride out of service immediately to determine the best path to get the ride operational again safely. Their response has been the same both times and yet people are expecting that Siren's Curse is supposed to be the "real" apology. It's a very odd narrative to me. I think it's largely driven by what I feel is people's strong dislike of Zamperla.
@@cedarpointless the weird thing about Zamperla hate is I've seen it before and I don't quite understand, but how about this....
I've always listened to the talk shows on WMMS (if you're familiar) and every once in awhile there's a minor staff change like phone screener. People always hate the person who is not the one they miss doing the job, if that makes sense. Human nature I suppose?
Stop making sense
They have the same layout
That's because they are variations of an off-the-shelf layout. Six flags qiddiya has concept art showing one of these in their park with the same layout as well.
@@cedarpointless which is disappointing.
Yes and no. As of now, there are no other parks sharing this layout. Since energylandia fell through, from what I can tell qiddiya is the only other park slated to get this layout. Which I don't think is a particularly big deal as long as the coaster is really good. And for me, the layout looks fantastic.
If this became a layout that was in 16 parks, then yeah it would be a bit disappointing. But that's not the case currently. We don't know if any other coaster will end up actually getting built with this layout in the end.
I thought this was the official cedar point channel lol
We're like cedar point from Temu
@@cedarpointless wow your a TH-camr who actually replies, thanks man. Also I’m dying of laughter rn
Enthusiasts are coping about this addition because they didn't predict it. They missed it. Which is why they're making up speculation like "it was meant for Six Flags Mexico!!!1!!1!!!!" or "it was a last-minute addition to make up for Top Thrill 2!!!1!!1!!". They're making these things up because they want to feel validated that know the ride's history/planning process, since they missed it during the ACTUAL planning process. They want to feel smart and "in the know." They want to feel like they know more than the general public. But they didn't in this case, and I find that absolutely hilarious. Enthusiasts had the wool pulled over their eyes by the park, just like the rest of the general public. They were surprised like everyone else, and they didn't like that because they want to feel smarter than everyone else. Really goes to show that being an "enthusiast" holds no significance in the real world.
These rides take years to plan for and develop. Cedar Point did not "steal" anything from anyone, this ride was designed for Cedar Point. Do I think perhaps the ride was pushed to 2025 to make up for TT2's failure? Maybe. It could've been a 2026 addition, who knows. But it was always meant for Cedar Point. It has been in the works for years.
i mean, this ride was a big game of hot potato. energylandia ran out of funds, sfm couldnt cut the trees down, so they put it at cedar point. there was never much of a plan to begin with
@@FatFrondley20 You’re wrong lol. This ride has been planned for Cedar Point for over a year now and probably longer.
@@triple7marc ..no? the coaster was a last-minute decision. its confirmed it was shipped to cedar point a couple months prior to the announcement. sfm had the coaster, and lost funds for it because the gov't didnt wanna have them cut more trees down.
source: wikipedia
@@FatFrondley20 Complete speculation and incorrect.
Attendance, and revenue are definitely down from what they would have been predicted. I cancelled my plans this year to go to cedar point and I’m sure I wasn’t alone.
I think the number of people that plan their entire purpose of a trip around a single new ride is a very small minority. Like probably low single-digit percentages.
I don’t even know if it’s even low single digit percentages. It wouldn’t surprise me if it’s less than one percent of people would cancel their trip over one ride. Most people are either local and go every year regardless or are the roller coaster equivalent of planning Disney/universal trips. Neither of those demographics are going to make a decision over one ride. There’s a very small demographic that tries to hit the new rides around the country or world each year and that’s really the only type of person that would cancel over one ride but that group is like maybe 1% of enthusiasts which is already a smaller demographic than the general public. They probably lost like 1000 visitors total for the entire season tops it just so happens that 1000 visitors are quite vocal like the original commenter here.
@@indyllc2394 probably not, last year broke there attendance record, this year was by far busier. If the weather holds up for hollow weekends there going to crush last year's record
The vast majority of people saw that TT2 was down, turned the corner at Magnum (maybe even hopping on), passed Gemini, and got in line for Maverick. They're disappointed, yeah, but not outraged enough to let it ruin their day.
Siren's Curse is an insurance policy for low capacity on TT2, NOT low season pass sales.
I refuse to go back to CP over wicked twister :-(