The Space Jockey - Original Ideas on the Space Jockey pre-engineers / Space Jockey explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2017
- The Space Jockey has been one of the best unknown parts of the Alien Franchise up until the prequel movies. Love or Hate the prequels, they really changed up the idea of what and who the Space Jockeys are. Some like the Engineers, some hate them! Lets take a look back at some original ideas and scripts from Alien and some ideas from Dan O'Bannon, and Ron Cobb to see what we can find out about them pre-engineers. Before Prometheus and Coveanant!
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The original idea was much better.
Alfred Hitchcock said it best, let the viewer use their imagination !
The Space Jockey, was enigmatic, and decent .
It was killed but left a warning to others to keep away from the danger.
.
It WAS NOT a giant man in a suit with a grudge against humanity.
exactly.
And you said it best in quoting Hitchcock. I just replied to the comment above yours and said something similar. In films, every question doesnt need to be answered. Leaving us to use our imagination is what made Alien so remarkable. Less is more.
ok
Prometheus was so fucking stupid. We should just disregard the prequel movies
@@idipped2521 🤓
The jockey just being another species that disovered the xenomorphs does sound way better than that Engineers stuff.
it was exactly like you said, then Ridley become completely crazy.
@@jeremyjohnson7676
Agreed. How are xenomorphs even alien if an Earth robot made them?
Not really I really love that the fact that they're living by a weapons created by the jockeys.
@@Bezaliel13 David is just supposed to be the guy that does research to modify them and then the engineers will probably kill him and take his research and finish it so the xenomorphs can be completely biomechanical on the outside I just really wish it was a hell of a lot better explained.
@@Elitesolider1023
Your preference is an opinion, but xenomorphs are no longer even "aliens" with the bioweapon retcon, just alien _technology._ It is as different as a vehicle to its passengers.
Also, how are the Engineers supposed to do that when David *already wiped them out?* Seriously, that sequel was already released a long time ago, so what are you even talking about with this "engineers will probably kill him and take his research and finish it" nonsense?
Not to mention how that would just turn it into a typical "space war" thing.
I absolutely hate that the Space Jockey ended up being a big human. It struck me as such a copout. I liked the Space Jockey being this creature that, from what we could tell, was entirely inhuman.
Revoltz22 well humans cane from them so that why we look like them
The spacejockey and engineer designs are both inspired from ancient mythology. All the details and the WHY are contained within the spaceships name "juggernaut". In india there is a deity named krishna or vishnu, and in one of his forms he is called jagganatha (sanskrit, lord of the universe).
The reason the spacejockey has an elefantine helmet, but actually looks like a human because that is how jagganatha is depicted. Jagganatha/Krishna looks human, but for certain bathing rituals he gets an elefant trunk added to his face - hathi besha - elefantine attire. So during this special bath jagganatha wears an elefant mask, although he actually looks human. Vishnu is bluish in iconography like the engineers. The original spacejockey design reflects the elefantine attire of lord jagganatha, who wears a spacesuit during the bathing ceremonies.
One of the 3 vishnu forms (Purusha) in the universe, got sacrificed by brahma the creator at the beginning of the creation. Similar to the cosmic giant ymir from norse mythology, purusha the supreme consciousness got sacrificed by brahma, and then became the cosmos; The earth, sun, moon, humans plants and animals. Then in this diffused for of being spread everywhere the purusha started to animate the cosmos and life started. So even this sacrifice theme was clearly pointing to the purusha/Ymir/Eros/Protogonos story - The first being in the universal egg.. It is said after the end of the universe, protogonos becomes mitra, slays the cosmic bull and then leaves the universe, returns to the divine abode, and enters the next cosmos as protogonos/eros/vishnu.
So this purusha / Ymir permeates the whole cosmos from the atom up to the largest scale structures and is our soul (purusha is synonymous with zoe or soul/divine spark). Since he is the sum total of consciousness his heads, eyes, mouths and hands are everywhere spread and he is the substance of all there is. In this form he is the supreme form of time/timelessness itself. Vishnu is the force maintaining the universe, but that is only 1 fourth of his power. His other 3 aspects are beyond the most subtle vibrations of this cosmos, although they can be accessed from here. The threefold universe we inhabit is just one of many bubbles in the breath of maha vishnu, who is but one manifestation of parabrahman. And because he, krishna, is the source of vishnu who is the cosmos, he is jagganatha. The gods are just his arms, eys, mouth and feet! All the worlds are his body, and he is allmoving timefactor and eternity!
Once a year in Orissa huge chariots made for jagganatha are made, with huge wheels. They are then rolled through the streets. So juggernaut is a bastardization of jagganatha, who is an unstoppable force (once the chariots start rolling they basically dont stop). It happens that some get crushed under the wheels. Even this theme gets used in Prometheus where Mrs Vickers gets crushed under the juggernaut ship!
So the wheel design for the derelict ship (juggernaut), the elefant attire for jagganatha, the blue color of vishnu as used for the engineers, and the sacrifice of purusha to create the universal contents, as well as the flute - the favorite instrument played by krishna - all these are from the vedas and norse mythology... And not at all a random decision - it is a BRILLIANT MOVE if you know WHY Ridley Scott did it!
The space jockey is not a big humanoid (engineer), and never was. Totally different. Fossilized (mentioned in alien 1), at least 18feat tall (engineers are about 8-9) with different design/look element. Come on, even their arm itself is longer then a whole human. Ridley is non-canon.
Totally. I had no problem with the engineers being big humanoids, but to make out like they were the space jockeys is just cheesy, and expecting us to swallow that was insulting, frankly. It would have been much better if the space jockey had remained a mystery - an ancient race of space-faring explorers who have long died out. Searching for who they were and where they came from, and what led up to the events on LV426 could have been the makings of a fantastic new series, but no, we got a half-baked thrown together piss-poor excuse for a story.
Phil lives! It's really interesting that the elephantine attire is worn during a bath and the engineer dawns something similar before traveling through an ocean of stars. The symbolism is heavy here.
Take some time to check out the Mal'a'kak, it think that's how it's spelled. It gives a different view of the space jockey, also research the Alphas.
I prefer the original idea. I've always thought of the Alien Xenomorph as an evolved creature from the ass end of the universe, something horrible let loose by accident, when it was removed from its home world.
comingviking lol you said ass end of the universe
ok
"I would hate to meet the natural predator that acid defense evolved to defend against..."
@@jytte-hilden Isn't there a comic that shows creatures preying on the Alien species?
@@minicle426 Yup. :)
It was one of the original Dark Horse comics. "Earth War" or something like that. The Xenomorphs did a pretty good job of defending their hive though.
NOT KNOWING AND HAVING A MYSTERY IS WHAT HELPED MADE ALIEN GREAT.
ok
You right but after the og movies nobody even cared so they might’ve well just do it
Totally agree. Feel the same way about Darth Vader and the terrible episodes 1-3. Just ruins the mystery of it.
I love the original idea. Really awesome when it appears in Alien. An ancient being older than mankind- hinting at vast fathomless gulfs of time. Makes me shiver whenever I watch Alien.
The jockey going from being this mysterious, strange creature to just some jacked dude in a suit feels like a total cop out!
I prefer the space jockey being a different species. The jockey remains seemed to be actual bone, rather than a space suit. Plus the jockey is freaking enormous.
I love the original Space Jockey from ALIEN. Changing them into living Greek statues in skeletal spacesuits is nowhere near as interesting and mysterious as what was created from the first film. Just seems to me that the Space Jockey was a convenient excuse to create the Engineers in PROMETHEUS. The Engineers were disappointing to me because the Space Jockey was designed to be a dead being, complete with desiccated flesh on its bones. It was as alien as the xenomorph, but turning it into just another humanoid made the Engineers way less interesting to me.
Maybe one reason for the change was because it would have been way more expensive to portray the Space Jockey on film as it was originally intended, rather than just making it a heavily made up actor in a suit.
hendrsb33
related to Mary Shelley's 1818 Frankenstein first book which is famously subtitled as “The Modern Prometheus” .
hendrsb33
No , the reason why Ridley insisted on next film of alien around Space Jockey origins is because Ridley himself told once when he was interviewed by a film magazine reporter about the origins and concepts behind the Xeno race after the release of alien 1
Ridley answered : Nobody put one simple question, in order to debunk the conceptual art of Alien xenomorph race who is the Space Jockey”
Question which leads you nowhere, Ridley seems rather bad in handling art with subtle/subliminal understanding or understandable after while of thinking . In Which an entire movie of Alien Prometheus( only to clarify around his answer in the 80’s not canonical to story ) just for Ridley bad answer which is misleading .
Giger's dark vision works perfectly in this universe, every concept should be developed around it if they ever decide to continue exploring this series.
Original idea was right
Great subject and coverage. Alan Dean Foster wrote the novelization for Alien. In it, when Ripley, Parker and Lambert question the disembodied head of robot Ash, the Space Jockey race are alluded to being space explorers who stumbled across the Xenopmorphs. Ash calls them a noble race and perhaps mankind will meet them under better circumstances. There is no indication wether the Xenomorphs are indigenous to LV426. There is no indication that the Space Jockey Race are engineers or hostile. This could have opened up a world of possibilities for Fox to explore. What did they and Scott do instead. They coughed up Prometheous. I have not seen Alien Covenant and will not, under any circumstances have anymore to do with the Alien Franchise. They started out so Good and really blew it big time.
Like Ridley Scott coo-coo nap time
Alan Dean Foster's novel made NO mention of the Space Jockey at all
Covenant is quite fun even though the characters appear to be wildly incompetent and breathtakingly stupid
@@JohnSmith-eo5sp really ? But the novel suggests the egg cavern was in the bowels of the planet below the ship and the space jockey was a victim just like the crew of the Nostromo were about to become a brilliant foreshadowing
@@aron666xparamor6 yes it does my friend, the novel gave me nightmares before I saw the flick. Good horror
While I can understand the reasoning behind exploring them and could see how some of the concepts they later introduced might have worked, ultimately I think delving into the Space Jockeys was misstep for the franchise. In keeping with the Lovecraftian horror/scifi themes the first film was established with, the Jockies worked best as a background piece, something that helped give a sense of scope to the universe for the characters and audience. They gave a tangible sense that there are parts of it viewers may vaguely recognize but never fully understand and the original Alien film, even in it's final form, handled that perfectly.
Long before Cain gets his face full of alien wing wong and then the worst bout of explosive indigestion in history the film uses the derelict and the Space Jockey to set us, the audience, on edge. To let us know that Kansas is now far, far behind us. The ship (if it is a ship) has a bio-organic and asymmetrical design that looks...wrong compared to the more familiar and utilitarian Nostromo. And it immediately alights questions in us. What was this thing? Why is it here? How did it get here? Who made it? As we get a look at the interior we see nothing remotely analogous to controls or computers or even seating, adding another level of disconnect between us and the builders. "How does it even work?" we ask ourselves. Then we see the "pilot." At least we think it's the pilot as our minds latch on to the first even vaguely recognizable thing we've seen so far. Buuuuut... Well, it's big. We immediately can tell that. And it seems to have a vaguely recognized head and arms and is sitting in some kind of chair with a...device before it that might be controls. But the rest of it? It seems to be fused with that chair, fossilized (actually probably suffering more from concretion but regardless) and there is evidence something burst OUT of it. More questions now: How old is this thing? WHAT is this thing? Why is it fused with the chair? Was it a result of the eons of decay? Some function of his technology? If he is the pilot of this ship could it be that his culture specially breeds certain members to be fused with their ships? To live their lives permanently bonded to the vessel? Given what we find out later was this perhaps a by product of the Xenomorphs trying to cocoon him? Oh, and perhaps the biggest question one of all...
What the hell killed it?
We're not even to the egg chamber yet and we've got so many questions that neither the characters nor the audience are going to get answers to save the last. We DO find out what killed the Space Jockey and that's it's own little bundle of questions and horrors onto itself. But it's the Space Jockey that sets the tone and mood, reminds us that for all our own advancement and ability, humans really are just specks in a hoary, vast, uncaring universe that may hold wonders and horrors we can not begin to even understand, let alone mount some kind of defense against. And that point is driven even farther home when you realize that for all of the Jockey's advancements and abilities which seem to dwarf that of the humans, it itself was brought down by the very toothy little critter that is currently making lunchables of our scared and squishy crew. If it had no chance, what chance do they?
All of this is communicated to us via several long establishing shots and only the barest of dialog and it is human nature to be tempted want to know more. But while one MIGHT be able to make a few ideas delving into Space Jockeys work, in reality they should have remained a fallen and forgotten empire in the mythos of the franchise. Something the humans only come into contact with through finding their ruins and artifacts and what they do find should fill us with wonder, mystery, and dread. Even the until recently used nickname of "Space Jockey," silly as it sounds, communicates only the most crude of understandings and closest of comparisons we can make of it.
Now compare the above to the "Engineers" as they are explored in Prometheus and Covenant.
Both films make much of the "mystery" of who they are and how they were apparently involved in the creation of humans. But from frame one we have none of that wonder, none of that sense mystery and fear about them. We see them walking, talking, using their tech as it was apparently intended. They have homes, military bases, research facilities. They are as mortal and frail as we are. We see them running in terror and lashing out in anger and writhing in pain. They aren't some great bizarre unknowable anymore. They are for all intents and purposes just big, pale, really advanced humans. And in the one direct contact we see between one of them and the humans, it just rip's off Davids head, kills Wayland, then tries to get its ship started up. But didn't the "Engineers" supposedly make the humans? Aren't we shown in universe evidence they visited us and had the ability to communicate with us. Even if there are two feuding castes as some have suggested, on seeing the humans on its world wouldn't its first thoughts be "How long have I been out?" or "I better find out what's going on." This is made even more confusing considering the whole bloody reason the humans being out here first place was because the "Engineers" supposedly let them know where to go.
(Side note: And please don't give me the "Well according to this deleted scene/web vid/analysis the reason why it happened was..." BS. I don't care. No seriously, I don't. Prometheus' lack of coherency and inability to keep its own tangle of plots straight is a discussion for another time and to save us both some trouble, after hearing all the "arguments" and "evidence" my stance on it is still: the movie didn't tell it's story well and wasn't nearly as good or deep as some like to tell themselves it is. Also with Covenant revealing that (SPOILERS!) killed (SPOILERS!) and personally (SPOILERS! SPOILERS! SPOILERS!) it means that whatever "mysteries" Prometheus built itself on are moot so take the fanwanking somewhere else. Okay? Okay.)
Anyway, I guess my point is the use of mystery and for lack of a better term "cosmic horror" is what made Alien stand out and appeal so well and the reason (or one of the reasons) why most of the sequels feel off or inferior in some way. They try to impose some kind of reason, order, or explanation to things that narratively don't need it and thematically get broken because of it. And such was the case with the Space Jockeys, turning them from a potential source of further stories and intrigues into the most bland and generic of throwaway antagonists.
Oh shit! I love idea of Space Jockey being cocooned in it's chair and then have alien burst out of it! Though I already love the idea of him being fused with the chair.
This is possibly the best comment in the history of TH-cam.
steampunker7 I agree, all the mystery was taken away by the prequels. I saw Alien in the movie theater in 1979 and all these years the mystery of the space jockey was one of the coolest memories I had of the film. I even wished they didn't have Weyland-Yutani know about the organism, it took a little of the mystery out of the original film.
Amen to that brother
My problem was that Ridley is trying to take the Alien out of Alien and is reducing the xenomorph. Originally, xenomorphs were horrific and truly inhuman aliens and the Space Jockey was *just another victim from another world* parallel to the humans.
Sadly, Ridley Scott has decided to change the perfectly understandable "this has happened before" element into a convoluted Ancient Aliens/robot revolution plot we have seen a million times already.
Ridley Scott did not make Alien in my opinion, that title goes to Dan o'bannon and H.R. Giger
After re-watching Alien Covenant and Prometheus, I am almost convinced that Dan O'bannon and the H.R. Giger were the fathers of the Alien Franchise and its Universe. I personally like to believe that O'bannon as the writer of the original Alien came up with the skeleton and Giger's style cemented the idea. Ridley Scott was simply the backbone that could deliver a film and he's good at it for what it's worth. But left to his own devices, you can really see that his style and 'creativity' was not what made the Alien so great. The original 1979 Alien was one of my favorite movies of all time, and although the last films of this franchise have been less then stellar, it does fill me with some relief and satisfaction to know who the TRUE creators of this franchise were.
I think you hit the nail on the head and made the point a lot of the people who champion Ridley being back at the helm miss. Don't get me wrong. I agree he is indeed a rock solid director and can be a multiplying factor when paired with a good script. But both Prometheus and Covenant felt like the right trains going down the wrong track. Visually and aesthetically they were impressive with solid ideas behind them but were poorly executed and missing a lot of the care and attention to detail that made the first Alien (and I'll say Alien and even Aliens 3) work so well.
Well said!
Scott was the one who brought in Giger, so no Scott no Giger, Scott shaped the film and gave it it's aesthetic and guided the child with all the gifts to greatness, I'd say you're sorely underestimating his influence.
After spending more than 25 years in the film industry, it's a little more complex than that. Yes O'Bannon was a huge part of the writing of the story, but without Scott, there would not have been any Geiger, as it was him that brought him in. The film would have looked like a straight sci-fi with the alien ship etc. looking pretty standard and being designed by Voss, Cobb, and or Moebius. There are a vast amount of people contributing to the end result on a big film, on a day by day basis. Scott is an extremely talented artist in his own right, an illustrator, excellent at costume, understands almost all aspects of art department and special effects.. He was responsible for so much that we know of as "Alien". It's incredibly disappointing however, that he decided to reboot the franchise by erasing all of these story factors that were obviously there in the original, especially shrinking down the jockey and making it a big guy in a suit.
O’bannon’s ideas were great, alien is definitely his baby, however O’banon was not a good filmmaker, if it was done completely his way it would have been more like a B-movie. I think when they made Alien it was just the right compromise of talent tip it over to one side and you don’t get the masterpiece we got
I think the fact that the jockey is ‘Biomechanical’ implicitly ties it to the xenomorphs, and Scott’s idea that they the latter were a bioweapon that turned on their creator makes sense. I do NOT think of the jockey as a long dead engineer in a suit, however!
Original giger idea is the best.
Yes, in the novelization ALIEN they kept with Gigers original idea with the xenomorph having eyes. Scott got rid of that cause he thought it made the monster look scarier.
Kaneonuskatew Giger's work was Genius
@@JohnSmith-eo5sp Giger was the one who had the eyes removed because it made the Alien even more Alien.
The thing that made the first ALIEN movie so good was the mystery. It was so unique and cool and groundbreaking. The Space Jockey was so breathtaking and I didn't care what he was just the fact he found his fate sealed by the Xenomorphs. I always thought he had the look of an elephant not realizing that was just his helmet. I always say LESS is MORE and like many Sci-Fi movies the more movies they make the less the original feels original. ALIEN, TERMINATOR, THE THING, etc. But I will never forget seeing original in crowded theater.
I love the high-concept ideas of Scott’s but I will always prefer the cold, dark truth that the universe is big and uncaring. Ala HP Lovecraft. Fear of the cosmic unknown. Now the story is a bit watered down and convoluted :(
a bit? those promethean films implyed that the engineers created Jesus haha thats horrible.
By high concept ideas you mean michael fassbender talking about giving a blow and fingering to himself or the whole mystery turning out to be a shitty take on ancient astronaut theory(which is shitty enough in itself) then yeah, sure high concepts but not for the most alien fans😢
The egg chamber was not part of the juggernaut, it was a area below the ship, when Kane is descending the egg chamber is over 200 meters and in the shape of the letter S. The juggernaut is in the shape of a U. It's a underground hold.
There was a lot of debate over that back when the movie was released. I understood as you do that the egg chamber was a cavern or tunnel beneath the derelict. It was left ambiguous, but it seems that something emerged from beneath and burrowed its way into the parked ship maybe?
I never thought of it that way. Good point.
"Like or hate the prequels" a far more cutting line than expected
In my mind, the Space Jockey was the non-human alien life form from which the Xenomorph inherited the biomechanical aspects after incubation within the Pilot. The pre-Jockey Xenomorph obviously had some characteristics that ended up in the form we see in the 1979 film, but the biomechanic aspects were introduced while gestating in the Pilot.
The same holds true for the human aspects we seeing in the form expressed in the 1979 film. The Pilot encountered a different-looking Xenomorph than the one the Nostromo eventually dealt with.
I prefer the implied depth of lore that is introduced by the Space Jockeys themselves stumbling upon this alien life form (alien to both the Jockeys and to humans), just as the crew of the Nostromo did. The species of the Xenomorph being removed from the species of the biomechanical Jockeys is just so much more compelling and imagination-stoking.
To be fair, they did seem to do this in the Prometheus film, but they did a terrible job. Too far removed. The giant squid thing was entirely the wrong way to go about it. It should have still had proto-Xenomorph echoes in the creature design.
That drawing by Giger is stunning and keeps getting better the more I see it.
Love those original ideas and think FOX should make this version now.
I definitely like these early ideas more than the ideas the new films are presenting. Overall, I think it would have been better to leave the details of the origin and nature of the space jockey as a mystery. Giger's design creates such intrigue and gets the imagination going in a way that makes it incredibly difficult for any single writer or team of writers to develop a story that will please the audience completely.
Dan O’Bannon’s original idea is way better since it actually keeps things simple yet still keeps the Space Jockey and the Xenos mysterious. It makes the universe seems so big unlike in Scott’s prequels where everything being connected makes it small.
The original idea was the best. What they ended up filming was OK, but you can see how the underlying plot is beginning to be manipulated. The first idea was that the alien was just an evil that mankind had stumbled upon. As the story progresses, mankind begins to take part in its creation. Apparently, the film studios don’t believe that bad things happen to good people, and have Incorporated this into everything they can get their hands on. Example, The Battlestar Galactica remake.
Totally.
I don't think you know what you are talking about!
Hollywood has been completely corrupted by counterculture and the cynicism it has fostered.
The recent reboot of Battlestar Galactica was poison! It was paranoid, dystopian, antiheroic, poorly thought out, and sexed up. It was a typical Canadian production.
+John Smith
Okay, but what are your thoughts on the Alien franchise's current direction?
The franchise has lost its way!
Ridley Scott has gone senile in his old age- - as the last 15 years of subpar films he has created attests to.
The main weakness of Alien Covenant is the second half of the movie unfolds just like a slasher flick.
Why not do a complete reboot of the franchise using Dan O'bannon's and Ron Cobb's original ideas and artwork? Make it on a modest budget as an experimental remake of Alien titled: Star Beast
+John Smith
So, I guess that Battlestar Galactica reboot was an apt comparison?
I do not know about Star Beast for his obsession with "David and the Engineers," but it would fit more with how there *are no aliens* now because the Engineers made Earth life and the xenomorphs were made by either them or *an Earth robot.*
The Spacejokey is biger than the Engineers so I think they are not the same beings
Yeah..... They thought nobody would notice the shrinkage when they made Prometheus. But I did! "That is no fucking Space Jockey!" was my immediate response. But of course, by then the movie had been going downhill for some time already.
Simon Lane they aren’t
They ARE NOT the same beings. Simple-minded people accept that.
The worst thing they did was make it an engineer. It made the fiction small and banal instead of wide and far reaching. The sight of the jockey's head as the light faded after they discovered him in Alien was extremely haunting. Like an ancient mummy stuck in a silent tomb for eternity.
Scott wrote himself into inconsistencies.
Any idea that removes David from being the creator.
David being the creator of xenomorph is like jar-jar binks being the real dark lord of the sith
Youssa not know the powr of the daark side!
I know its perfect.
Idea. He creates a creature that has some traits of a xenomorph, gets raped and killed by it, then some wild creature that is able to enhance the powers from the creatures that it eats. Eats davids creation and adds the good stuff to the good stuff it already has and mutates into a xenomorph ^^
HOWLIN' MAD MATT VESS yeah its like Data in Star Trek being considered as property
The original, without a doubt.
Your theory makes the most sense given what appears in Alien versus the original story and script. Great research!
I again rewatched Alien and the sense of mystery and strangeness is what it so appealing. The direction I feel they should have gone is from the Alien 3 script written by William Gibson. In his script, there is one line that seemed so profound and answered it all. It simply was, "The aliens were the end of another species arm's race." Great concept. This whole engineer talk was just too weird and didn't seem to fit with the time line of Alien at all.
I love the idea that the space jockey came from some biomechanical civilization like something from Scorn or Dark Seed & didn't create the xenomorph but instead just found it somewhere in the universe.
I have no idea why I'm just now seeing your channel in my feed as I've been viewing multiple videos about the Alien universe for a few years now. Only hours ago did your content pop up and I'm glad it did. You do excellent work. Wish I could subscribe twice. Thank you
thanks!
2:38 I often wondered why the 'space-jockey' scene is never described in the 1978 novelization of ALIEN by Alan Dean Foster, since the concept is there from the very beginning.
I once read a book called : What Lies Do I Tell, by a famed Hollywood screenwriter. He describes in detail how in the screen writing process the author's work gets so rewritten that often nothing of the original work remains. The vision of the concept-creators is lost.
@John Smith
He was given an older script that left the Jockey out as Scott most likely didn't bother to tell him the script had been salvaged to keep the Jockey back in.
Definitely, a proponent for O'Bannon's idea of peaceful explorers, instead of the Mystery destroying Engineers from Prometheus. They Original film left you with an unsettling, and truly wondrous being just found by chance by these space truckers, who like the audience-couldn't make heads or tails of their bizzare find. THAT, made it Cosmic Horror!
Just saw your video, great job man! Keep up the good vid's !
I like the Ron Cobb design as well. But I also like Scott's vision of that alien having become fossilized/integrated into it's chair/station on the ship.
Scott's approach gives the whole thing an immense sense of deep, deep time. This thing has been sitting there for eons upon eons. Which adds to the menace and mystery. Intelligent, spacefaring alien species existing for millions of years before us is intimidating and even terrifying. The makings of space horror. Old ones, and such.
Now add in the xenomorph tech/biology that slowly takes over and encompasses its environments in its very otherworldly designs.
I always imagined the xenomorph species' biology is closely mirrored in the process of it taking over its environments. If allowed enough time we see the highly advanced forms showing as in the Geiger designs. As we see with the dead alien pilot. Perhaps this process is their form of technology. Just as their bodies are biomechanical they morph their environments into biomechanical/technological as well. Perhaps there is an advanced intelligence at work once a queen is birthed and she designs and drives the takeover of the environments into the advanced designs. Which include elements that are basically technological like their atmosphere control we see in the first Alien film when Kane, Dallas and Lambert descend into the egg room.
Cobb's design are themselves alien and otherworldly without seeming cheesy like some sort of anthropomorphized human animal that we often see as alien designs in scifi. And we can imagine the xeno we encounter on the Nostromo as having genes passed along from a branch that birthed from having hosted in his alien explorer species. So given enough time we could of perhaps found skeletons of these aliens throughout the derelict, killed outright from fighting the xenomorph(s). Or dead from simply from starvation after having secured themselves from the xenomorph threat somehow.
My head canon then:
The explorer species finds LV-426 and investigate it for some reason of their own. The pilot was caught by the facehugger, placed back into its station by its crewmates and then eventually died to the alien birth. Which the other crew fought against (perhaps with other xenomorphs also on the planet or generated by other crew taken) and eventually succumbed leaving only the warning signal being broadcast. (Or the remaining crew managed to secure some area of the ship and successfully defend it from the xenos. But they can't venture out of it safely and slowly succumb to starvation there. The remaining xenomorph(s) then proceeded to take over the explorers' ship. The dead pilot slowly dessicated over the millennia until it was fossilized and permanently embedded into the environment by the aliens' environmental takeover process. The remaining xenomorphs birthed a queen and made the eggs but themselves either died off (all lifeforms need energy input of some sort) or went into deep hibernation as no new prey came to LV-426 until the Nostromo's arrival.
I dunno which version of the Space Jockey I like more, however, I know I like your videos so far quite a bit.
One of th ebest things about the original movie was that so much was a mystery. Having the Nostromo crew explore the ancient derelict and using Gieger's designs was inspired. _Alien_ is as much about the sheer alien quality of that ship as it is about the xenomorph. The whole sequence creates a air of mystery - of some ancient horror and tragedy. We never find out where the ship is from, why it is there, or how the xenomorphs were on there. The "space jockey" is a wonderful piece of design - as "alien" as _the_ alien. The whole piece is about leaving the audience baffled. You get theseguys crawling around inside a dark, weird ship that looks like it's made of bones with doors shaped like vaginas, as if they are inside some ancient creature (and they likely are) - there's a very great contrast between the comforting familiarity of the angular, metal Nostromo and the derelict, which is obviously organic and not a straight like anywhere. And it's only occupant is a corpse. The conclusion the viewer slowly comes to is that the space jockey was infested, even as he fought a last ditch battle against the creatures. An ancient horror and tragedy, waiting to claim new victims. The atmosphere is incredibly haunting - it is just perfect, from the visuals to the sound and music.
And then they gave us fucking Prometheus, and it turns out they were just badly body builder humans in suits. The size doesn;t even match. The space jockey here is clearly around 20 feet tall!
I kind of like the idea of Ron Cobb's design - it definitely separates the Jockeys from the Aliens.
They should do a reboot with the original ideas
Yeessssss
Fascinating!! Thank You for sharing!!
you have the greatest videos man
I remember a Giger artwork showing two « space jockeys » watching the birth of an egg. Interesting cue to the original ideas.
I've always loved the mystery of the space jockey, and I side with others that it wasn't an engineer but rather another species that landed on the planet and fell fate to the Xenomorphs. And of course the warning
( not distress / SOS ) signal.
The way the jockey was infused into the ship hinted that the ship was in fact organic, as you stated in the video.
Thank you, H.R.Giger
Original idea was clever, cleaner, and have much more sense that thw mess we ended with, i mean, the idea of advanced explorer species that found the horror of the xenomorph is way better than a robot creating monsters while playing the flute that is fighting a race of space albino culturist.
Great video!
The original idea was very intersting. It was really mystery! It is poor that we never can watch this movie! Thanks for video!
I loved the true Alieness of the original space jockey, what was beautiful and enigmatic about it was precisely that it was truly not of this earth and decidedly NOT a "man in a suit."
I refuse to believe that the space jockey was an engineer, the size doesn't match up for a start in comparison they are as different fron engineers as the engineer is from us, loved the first 2 alien movies they have definitely lost there way 😭
I see you're the only one that gives a straightforward answer of what the most logical explanation is and it's perfect all the other channels give half ass crappy explanations of what the hell the thing is and they totally get it wrong LOL thank you
Scott murdered the mystery of the space jockey.
Really great video - thanks for the research and ideas.
The mystery of the origin and nature of the space jockey has intrigued me more than any other movie concept. It's secrets should stay hidden and not be explained away by rudimentary science....surely our tiny human brains cannot comprehend all the mysteries of the universe.
Like Giger's biomechanoiids, there should always be details we don't know or can't even imagine. Please let it not be just an androud's lab experiment....."I choose not to believe it."
Good videos, I suscribe!
I like these ideas, it's never too late to do it.
Sting Savage i Agree they can still throw us a curve make it the engineers in two prequels are a different race ,make it a side story ,make a third REAL alien Prequel
The ORIGINAL space jockey was in the Italian sci-fi movie Planet Of The Vampires as was the derelict he piloted. O Bannon freely admitted this was a prime inspiration. Look the movie up, its essentially the first half of Alien!
Very True, I have the movie now. I need to update this video.
@@scifiexplained Cool. I watched it about a year ago for the first time and was struck by the similarities right away. Gave some idea of what Alien might have been like as a B-movie.
Yes i like the original ideas better, awesome video sir 🙂👍
When I watched Alien for the first time I got from it exactly what the original plan was and I think it's so much better than the engineers making humans and the xenomorphs.One of the reasons that Alien is so good is the mystery.
The whole idea of humans finding a crashed alien ship and not knowing what the ship is,where it came from what's it purpose was and what the thing sitting in the chair is ,is very, well alien.It fits into the rest of the film with the finding of the xenomorphs and makes it very spooky.They should have left it at that,Primetheus and Covenent have taken that away from Alien and it has suffered for it.
What the purpose of that ship was,where it came from,What's its occupants looked like,what they knew about the xenomorpgh and how the ship became stranded should always remain a mystery.
I think what we have to remember is that yes when HR Giger came in to do the Xenomorph and Derelict and its Pilot, at this point the idea became that the Space Jockey Race were using the Xenomorph Eggs as Biological Warfare. RS after ALIEN had indicated that the Space Jockey was a Suit of sorts and the Space Jockey had Created the Xenomorph. I know a number of Fans saw the Space Jockey as a Skeleton and were upset with them being Bald Headed Humanoids, but if you look at the HR Giger Concepts for the Face Hugger we see them Face Hugging Bald Humanoids.. if we look at their Space Suits and then the Beings in Gigers unused Mural from ALIEN we see the Space Jockey looking beings Sacrificing one of their own, has the same kind of Suit just with a Helmet on. Looking at these Suits you can draw a familiarity with the Engineers Suits in Prometheus. And so having the Space Jockey as a Space Suit of sorts and the occupants being Bald Humanoids was never a Suprise to me.... Also looking at the Space Jockey Concept art... it looks Biomechanical and so when looking at the other Concept work then having them as Humanoids was no Disappointment for me, but yes the Scale was off.... but with the Prequels Drafts... the Engineers were intended to be 15ft and then downgraded to 10ft....when we see the Engineers in Prometheus the reality was a 8ft Suited Race
After hearing this. I'd like to think the space jock and the Engie's are two different species, but thats never gonna happen now. Good vid. 👍
Honestly I liked it better not knowing and knowing I wasn’t going to know. Rob Ager does a great video on this and only used the movie as source material. There is something so fascinating to me about not know who or why or what this creature is.
Alien reboot needed...
They can co-exist. The version we see in promethius aren't the same things as the original space jockey, just an imitation of them :o
Before Prometheus, I always thought the space jockeys to be a master explorer race who had reached the farthest corners of the universe, and brought back with them into our region of our galaxy the Xenomorphs.
I think we got a bigger "setting" out of this in the end. O'Bannon's idea was solid, and it would still be cool to have seen, but I like the questions that Ridley Scott's prequels + Alien ask, and I don't think we would have gotten to see movies asking those questions in such a way with O'Bannon's original writing.
Pretty Sweet idea!! 👍
I was hooked on Alien for a long time, I watched it so many times. I kind of assumed the jockey was another species that stumbled upon the Aliens home, this was in the 90s before Prometheus. I like the original idea but I also liked Prometheus. I didn’t care for Covenant, though I like to imagine David was able to plan and dispatch a colony ship, (secretly running Weiland co as weiland) so he can do all his experiments on people. Purposely picking dump people to facilitate his outcome. It makes Covenant kinda ok if you imagine the end was planned and orchestrated before hand by David. I really enjoyed all the deep mystery in both Alien and Prometheus.
I do like the original space jockey concept better than in Prometheus. That one and only jockey still lends to more, than the engineers design of a suit that is removable. The horror that is not comprehendible yet still intriguing of the biomechanicle fusion of the jockey is genius beyond Ridly Scott. That is why it still holds as the single most powerful piece, of the imagery that is the alien ip.
Good Video!!!
The original was so much better than where Ridley has taken it. I understand now when Fox has a hit movie it was totally an accident.
In the movie Alien, Ripley says it sounds more like a warning not a distress signal. But Prometheus killed that idea by making the space jockey hostile. So the films don’t merge at all
I like the Original space jockeys, and ya a reboot with the original ideas sound cool.
Very interesting
The original idea. It just further supports the idea that there could be two different species. Explorer and Engineers.
I like the original space jockey as much as the next guy but I get why it was changed. It has a trunk which would be goofy and distracting in a horror film like Prometheus
The fact it was a complete mystery and left the audience to imagine and speculate years after the film was released was the best part. If we have to accept the recent prequels are canon; then i would at LEAST hope the final reveal payoff of XX121 be worth it. :/ Penny has just dropped for me that Romulus will be a reeboot.. so.. perhaps it could be better than what the sequel to covenant will bring us :p
Well fox are talking about rebooting the series maybe they could take a look at the original script and use some of cobbs original ideas for the jockey and alien.
Hope they make another movie inspired this space Jockey, this original seems make sense than David betrayed everyone
The original idea is perfect!!
Wish we saw ‘em again.
I think it would be a better idea if the engineers are not one species but a chain of creator and created sub-species. We the humans are the final creation of the engineers line of sub-species. I think the original space jockey from the Alien is the most ancient one we have encountered. It was a true bio-mechanical organism fused to his bio-mechanoid ship and I think he was the source of the black liquid the primordial base for their bio-mechanical origin. I imagine their home world would be like the game scorn
I really like this idea
even with the retcon , still doesn't explain why the jockey is still much bigger than the engineers.also- I used to think the jockey had a huge face hugger (chest hugger?) on its body, not that it was a part of its bio-structure.
Unpopular opinion : I LOVE Prometheus. And the concept of the engineers. Back then it was a fresh and surprising take on the Alien canon. I just wished it took place on LV426 and connected directly to the original, rather than starting a new trilogy that didn't go anywhere anyway.
I like the final design of the 1978 Lincoln Mark 5 / last real full size American car that made it along with the Mercury Grand Marquee till 1979 both offered a powerful 460 cid Ford Engine. That’s why I thank The Engineers
I much prefer the original idea for the Space Jockey. The premise that he's literally a part of his chair and obsorbed by his own technology is High Concept Science Fiction!
Verry good vision! The original script sounds more logic. Any how enjoy all alien movies. Robert Belgium
I like the idea that the Alien was a feral child of a sophisticated but violent species. It works either as them being pyramid builders or being cargo. As cargo I quite like the idea of them being not weapons or zoological specimens but maybe exotic ingredients for food or cosmetics. Something on the surface non-essential and the poor jockey just got a little careless or greedy.
Ahhh the Engineer… one of Sci-fi’s greatest fuck ups
Cool
I love this backstory so much better than the garbage Engineer concept. The only major plot-hole that remains for me from the original Alien is the insane growth spurt from chestburster to full grown xenomorph. Short of some kind of metal-eating capacity, there is no conceivable way the creature could gain so much mass, and that also opens up all kinds of questions with respect to Darwinian evolution. That's why I loved Alien so much; it seemed to take place in our universe, with all natural explanations and no deus-ex machina stuff like we got in Prometheus.
Absolutely, Prometheus is an alternate universe movie...the original alien was good until Cameron got to it.🤔
i like all the alien ideas.
Dang- I always thought it was like this- coming form Ridley
*They are not from Mars, and so they are not gods of war.
A monstrously clever being is piloting a ship. The pilot wears some sort of skeletal suit.
This ship is a carrier of weapons, a battle wagon of its civilization, full of dangerous cargo that the pilot engineered. This weapon was essentially a large form of bacteriological bio-mechanized warfare.
This pilot and it’s crew were on their way to attack something from somewhere for a unknown reason.
One of the weapons had been disturbed, and it had got out. It attacked the crew.
The pilot had experienced this.
The Pilot has now melded into his seat.
They all fell victim to this weapon.
It is a possibility that some of the crew escaped through the air locks during a emergency evacuation of the ship.
Tbh I love both ideas
Original ideas were the best.
I loved the mystery of the space jockey, engineers took that away.
I had wanted the space jockeys to be an alien race too....I wish that the Xenomorphs were some kind of weapon, designed by the space jockeys to fight some horrendous war...between them and a different enigmatic race of aliens.....all of which could have been revealed during the prequels/ sequels. I had always thought that the Jockeys, being completly Alien might have been utterly ruthless, or maybe just way beyond human comprehension what their motivations were. It could have been fantastic, and it could have been excellent cosmic horror. But instead we got Space Daddy had a boo boo, and crazy robots trying to destroy humanity.
The original idea was so much better. Someone could, and should, still make that original movie.
Well kind of a mixed on this it could go either way I do the the two one that really pops out to me that would be right is that one of the explore engineer that piloted the ship from the control pit that was just putting on his xoskeleton flight mask and seat strapping was the one who became the SpaceJockey on the ship so I think the idea of the engineer's from the Covenant brought the main idea of the SpaceJockey is I think was their main idea to go upon