The Low Temperature 3D Printing Filament you probably haven't heard of.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2024
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In this episode I'm taking a look at this unusual but entirely usual filament that melts at temperatures between 60 and 110C ish, and we'll see if I can print with it. Obviously yes. Otherwise it wouldn't be in the thumbnail. But, it does present its own challenges!
*WARNING**: I should probably mention that if you print filament not meant for your printer, you do it at your own risk. I mean, the Facilan *is meant for your printer, but the other stuff isn't, so bear that in mind. Warranties most definitely voided! Potential for breaking your stuff, your self, etc.
Models:
Rook: www.printables.com/model/9898...
Poo shape: me
Bone shape: also me
If you want to support the channel, you can via patreon: / lostintech
Filament shown in the dryer by sunlu: lostintech.co.uk/meta
Printer shown, elegoo neptune: lostintech.co.uk/elegoo
link to amazon store with colour changing beads:
Link to Amazon (.com) Storefront (Affiliate): www.amazon.com/shop/lostintech
Link to Amazon (.co.uk) Storefront (Affiliate): www.amazon.co.uk/shop/lostintech
this video feels like a fever dream
Then I have succeeded in my goal haha
Absolutely
Exactly :)) what tf am I watching, is any of that real
Oh hey it's that stuff
It's used in the model making community as a cheap reusable mold. If you have a small simple part, you can heat this stuff up and make a quick mold out of it, then use some epoxy clay/putty to make quick copies. When you are done, just heat it up again and shape it into the next mold.
Oh like Blue Stuff or Oyumaru!
@@ObGoRat Yeah that's it! The names fell out of my head when I wrote the comment lol
The OG brand name for the hobby product is Shapelock. Generic search terms are “moldable plastic” or MTP
This looks almost like printing with hot-melt glue.
You totally could...it's just as sticky
You know what, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was a "hot glue stick" filament now.
@@lajoyalobos2009 EVA and polyamide are what hot glue is made of. I'm almost sure there's Polyamide filament out there. Dunno about EVA though.
PCL can be used as a scaffold for cells to "climb" on it, multiply there, and then, slowly but surely, consume it :D that's why its used in biomedicine :3 I have printed some very basic forms and used it to check if human cells could in fact use it as a structure to adhere to :D
As someone who's into materials science as a hobby, I love these sorts of deep dives into "materials you likely never even knew existed." Lately I've had a curiosity in polyesters as those materials are just crazy strong and have many flavors that seem mostly printable, PolyCarb being the one we all know.
Definitely do more video's on "wierd" filaments.... 🖒
PCL is used to print (bio) scaffolds, (so you can irrigate them with a living cells sollution and they will grow in). These can also be implants since this material is absorbed by the body. Also to print flat orthotics that can be heated in the microwave so they get soft and then are applied on the member/limb and they get a much better fit. (They are much easier to produce since they don’t require “complex” 3D scans).
I believe you bought it for cheap since this material has a rather short shelf life.
What is the shelf life limited by? I'm sure it's limited for bio use for reasons, but... i bought some PCL sheets from Pearl about 20 years ago and they still work just fine!
I used PCL to make molds in which I poured epoxxy around a knife handle. Worked quite well.
Sounds ideal for that kind of moulding!
Let me guess, polycaprolactone?
Yep, called it! AFAIK, people were envisioning iit to be used a lot in the old Reprap days as a 'future biodegradable replacement for ABS' (having started developing open-source filament 3D printing with reels of ABS robotic plastic welding wire intended for the automotive industry), but somehow testing with it caused enough frustration in those early days that it got almost entirely abandoned in favour of PLA once that became available. Now that printers work much better with 'squishy' plastics, it can probably be used more practically, but printers are rarely designed to work at such low temperatures any more.
You can occasionally find 'store brand' PCL at importers advertised as a 'low temperature' or 'high safety' filament or one for custom-shaped grips, or at least you could a couple years ago, I haven't checked recently since I don't have a particular use case for it.
Poor bridging is probably the result of the _"latent heat"_ of phase change. It probably takes a *lot* more heat to change from solidliquid (like water) than it does to raise or lower the temperature than PLA or any other filament takes. I have some of these beads and wondered if they could be printed with. I had no idea they already made filament with it. Thanks.
Great video Losty really cool never knew my print bed could print
For bridging you could try using a diamondback nozzle because diamond is more slippery than anything. Also might help to lower the temperature a bit but the sweet spot is likely to be a very narrow range
I LOL'd about the "bone" you drew! ;-D
PCL! That's the stuff we made the color changing filament with at Proto Pasta. SO HARD TO PRINT WITH.
Haha yes, a challenge to even get it to come out of the nozzle! 😂
I thought u were drawing something else (not a bone) for a moment
Oh really haha
Missing an R at the end. 🤣
Surely it was a Creeper. Just a bit rounded.
Its pretty cool stuff. Its great for moulding custom fit hand grips on stuff. Or upgrading something super janky like a fender tied on with a ziptie to something quite solid feeling and respectable looking by squeezing a PCL plug around it. Its got a really cool strain-hardening behavior too; you can draw it out into quite stiff threads if you draw it out while cooling; makes for great biodegradable rope to tie up your plants with. One thing I want to try is overmoulding steel slugs to make lead free air rifle ammo with; since its nylon-like in its toughness and slipperiness I imagine that might work well. The hope is it doesnt suck as bad as other lead free ammo. Hopefully it doesnt stick to / foul barrels; but the low temps should work really well with SLA printed injection molds.
I'll definitely be using those beads for something. Not sure about the filament, but the beads, 👍
I'd imagine that the friction of traveling down the barrel of an air rifle at 800 feet per second would melt it pretty quickly. It's sticky when melted. Sounds like it might be a bad idea.
Now is this actually biodegradable or is it just “biodegradable” like PLA, where you need an industrial composter to break it down?
@@supergiantbubbles Yeah that is my main concern. Though lead and every other thing also rubs off on the inside; as long as it doesnt clump up and ruin accuracy it need not be a bad thing. These things are near impossible to think through, only one way to find out.
@@conorstewart2214 actually degradable; thin pieces buried in soil are gone in 6 months (going from memory; something like that); though as long as you keep it dry it seems about as stable as wood is.
I once bought a credit card shaped product of this stuff. Idea being you had an emergency fixing plastic for all sorts of on the spot fixes.
Sadly like all plastics, while it does melt at 60c. It deforms much lower, especially with pressure. So heat off my pocket and pressure off my butt.
I now have a permanent plastic lining pressed into the fabric of my wallet.
Been there 7 years. 😮
Isn't that stuff used for attaching fake vampire fangs? They give you a few beads just like that and they also make you stick it in boiling water
yes - same stuff, pretty sure, although I don't think I'd want to eat it
There was a kickstarter thingy called SKULPT by a company called Thibra3D that promised pretty much the same property of being able to heat it up a bit (e.g. with a hair dryer) and mold the print afterwards... Was this effectively PCL? I don't think Scuplt was sticky though, from what I gathered it was more like clay...
does sound like PCL with marketing lol
I think "biodegradable" is a stretch. Much like PLA you need specialty enzymes and bacteria in a very specific environment to degrade the polymer into water soluble components. To my knowelege this sort of environment is not naturally occurring and would need to drop it off at an industrial composting facility that specializes in polymers.
I think it's more biodegradable than pla, but yeah, there's always a but
I actually got some pretty bad burns from this PCL stuff. It absolutely refuses to cool down for some reason, i think the thermal conductivity coefficient is super low for this material and it holds heat well
yeah I was totally taken by surprise at how it does that, totally unlike any other thermoplastic we print with.
Great video as always
Strange filament, You are the MAN!
Thanks for sharing 🙂
Thank you!
Yea please more videos like this mate 👍🇦🇺😊
I went to my filament store last weekend and saw half a dozen different colours of this. I just assumed it was for 3D pen use only.
Cheers mate great video
The stuff in the end seems to be Reflect-O-Lay. A reflective filament. Bought a batch for myself a few months ago to make holiday presents out of. In the northern countries wearing reflectors is often mandatory during winter when it's dark, so they are well known and relatively appreciated.
Interested to see what you print with that Reflect-o-Lay
Shhh! 😂
Looks like someone knew what that stuff was :)
I've no idea how!
I was going to comment the same thing! Have you seen/gotten any of the other Kai Parthay filaments? I picked them up a while back. I don’t think they're still in production. All of them are interesting. K
Yeah this was on clearance, a shame, I like weird filaments! 😂
Great video, thanks 👍
"Your printer will not do it"
Laughs in klipper
I use this stuff to make clamping cauls for woodworking. Especially carved acoustic guitar bridges. That will be handy using the heat bed compared to melting it in a pan of water and digging it out. Does it effortlessly detach from the glass after it cools like PLA?
My face when I hear "Teflon-coated nozzles": 😨
Oh, and thanks for linking to the Kickstarter. I wasn't thinking about getting one of those filament dryers but at the early-bird price, I couldn't resist.
Haha 😂 sorry. It's good though, mine is currently drying all my silica gel sachets.... about 50 of them
Try moving the printer close to an open fridge to see if the cold air cools the plastic enough to allow a more rapid solidification. That in theory should improve the bridges.
yeah would be cool to ...pun intended...try some of this stuff if I get the time.
It's funny, I was just yesterday pondering the idea of refrigerated air for parts cooling instead of cranking up the speed and volume as it standard. The idea being the air is both cooler, increasing the temperature differential and thus speed of thermal transfer, but it is denser than room twmp air, further increasing the transfer rate. In this case the differential is almost required if you want to print some forms.
It's some weird couscous!
Should be great for handles, just model a rough shape, print and then squish it so it gets moulded to your hand. I have a cheese knife with a broken handle, so maybe I'll order some.
I _think_ my firmware lets me set a minimal extruding temp right from the menu too, but that needs checking.
Side holes are a really _cool_ feature of the dryer ;)
Forgot to mention that sample packs is what most TH-camrs should really get/use for the videos. Enough for a benchy, a calibration cube and then some, doesn't take any space on the shelves, no spools to agonise over not being able to recycle. Shame they tend to only come in some predefined colour sets.
Totally got me. Well played, sir. 1:50
I would love to see more weird things like this
Pretty neat stuff. Wonder if it can be blended with other materials to be more printable
foaming PCL!
Basically 3d printing with a hot glue stick.
If that sunlu drier can't hit 80C, we don't want it. 60-70C is way too wimpy to get your stuff ACTUALLY dry consistently
I suggest you go watch my old video on wet filament to try to learn more about sorption isotherms and why moisture behaves the way it does with heat, because I'm not sure where this 80C idea comes from, it's certainly not based on fact.
@@LostInTech3D based on experience. Nylon in particular just doesn't want to cooperate at such low temps
Love this video, I wonder if a blend of pla and pcl would have better printing qualities?
Is there any chance you could do a video on PVB filament please?
Yes, I already have a reel ready to go!
@@LostInTech3D Wicked!
Would it be possible to use it as a "meltable" support material. That final filament reminds me of nozzle cleaning filament, never seen any that was grey though.
hmm, I dunno. I did wonder if the bambu would tolerate it, but I bet the firmware doesnt allow it
Teflon coated nozzle - I had one for a test. It works nice for a short time. Then coating grinds off and loses its capacity to stay clean ( it worked nice with PetG).
Well nothing sticks to PTFE and so PTFE does not stick to a nozzle 😂.
haha I won't waste my time on that then, good to know
@@LostInTech3D I have macro photos of a new and an used one. If I find good way to publish it - You be the one to know ;)
I mix mine on wax paper it still sticks but not as bad as shown
I use it to make one of dies for metal pressing it's surprisingly strong when cool
good idea, I prolly have some somewhere too. Yeah when cool it's basically as good as nylon, very weird
@@LostInTech3D when I first used it I expected it to have the consistency of hot glue once set
But nylon isn't far from the cooled material properties
I still find it strange that companies use Kickstarter to launch a product. Especially when it's not their first product.
idk, its just a platform these days, I guess to manage the pricing, I dont really know
I'm one of those people that uses it for a fake tooth.
I DO recommend it for that purpose for a temporary fix or while saving up to get implants.
hop on over, my drill is still charged! :)
A teflon coated nozzle is absolutely terrifying. Literally poison gas generator
not at 100C lol
It's the same situation at PTFE bowden tubes. As long as your hot-end temp is approximately under 260C, there should be no significantly generation of gases. You could set a hot end to not go above, say, 230C, and you'd still have a respectible printer for PLA, some PETG, HIPS, PCL, and some other filaments.
@@LostInTech3D that is true, but they don't make them specially for this low temp filament, they make them just in general.
The outside of the nozzle is generally pretty cold. I mean if the thread is at 250°C and the air outside is at like... 40-50°C tops... i mean it's going to be in between, it's constantly cooled. It's much more benign than PTFE coated throat and that's what... i should get away from someday, but i need to design a whole new toolhead carrier for that.
Thanks for making a video about PCL.I was also foolish enough to buy a bag of those colourful samples.Not realising that it's PCL & not PLA. Played around with it got as far as to get it to print a cube (after numerous attempts).But the quality wasn't great.Tried researching PCL,but didn't get much information in the way of printing with it. But your video is more than helpful, perhaps I should try again.
yeah, it took me some time to figure out the exact temp, and retraction
I know others have offered practical advice to eliminate the bridging issue, but based on the video, I might also try increasing the bridging speed. This would help the bridge reach the other side intact but the bridge may be thinner or droop. In this case, try setting multiple bridge layers to strengthen it before the first button layer fill. If you feel vigilant, you could try an air duster spray aimed at the bridge for extra cooling. I’m sure a combination of all the suggestions here will have you printing near perfect bridges very quickly.
Good ideas
I got a sample of light pastel green eMate PCL by eSUN at ERRF last year. Recommended settings: Hotend 80-100C, Bed Under 40C. Only tried to print it once but the firmware wouldn't let me extrude below 170C, 🙄 Been on the shelf ever since.
Yeah that is the main problem. The ortho stuff says it will print up to 170...but I didn't feel like that would be a good idea given the melting point is 70c ish!
@@LostInTech3D I've no idea the quality or actual composition of the stuff I got, but I bought some random PCL 3d pen refill off of amazon and I've been messing with it for a day. It only prints ~180C on my printer, but the quality isn't.... terrible I guess.
I'm assuming its PCL with some additives? What's weird is its definitely still workable in hot water, the hot water from my sink faucet was able to get it pretty much molten.
Cold pull comes in handy to purge the nozzle. When your cold pull comes out shaped like the inside of a 3D printer nozzle then you know it's purged out.
Looking at the bridging footage, it appears as though you have coasting turned on. That effect you see of the filament curling up onto the nozzle is the exact same thing that happens if you've ever watched oozing on a nozzle heating up, or if you've watched the very first moments of extrusion in mid-air, before the pressure fully builds and the die-swell is able to carry the material away from the opening.
Based on that, my instinct would be to actually remove coasting completely to keep the pressure up in the melt chamber and just rely on the drop in flow per unit traveled to stretch the material across the gap.
Just a thought, I don't know the specifics of what you tried.
I don't use coasting, it rarely gives good results
@@LostInTech3D Same experience here. It sure looks like that effect though. Very interesting. This might be a case where Cura simply isn't adequate for the bridging strategy necessary then. Like you I tend to prefer Cura for general daily use, but I do keep most of the slicers around for specific use-cases. And when I need good bridging is exactly when I prefer slic3r (take your flavor). Their algorithm for how bridges should be handled is far superior imo. It does a straight-line anchoring portion which yields much more consistent results, and is far better about not just aimlessly starting a bridge over thin air (which cura is annoyingly fond of doing in certain situations from my experience).
Anywho, just more aimless thoughts as I armchair troubleshoot from way over here :P
I'd be curious to see what you could do with printable wax filament.
that's a thing? cool
Metal objects, after pouring plaster around it and melting/burning the wax (hence lost wax casting) out to create a mould. It's maybe not wax, but works the same way. There are also wax resins to have better details.
Resin is used in jewelry (Formlabs, mainly, for "serious" workflows, but also normal resin printers are capable).
Unless you meant printing candles, bee hive honeycombs etc ;)
can you try printing PBT?
Please more of this stuff
Plan to! 👍
That mystery filament at the end reminds me of Conductive PLA Filament
conductive filament is coming up but this isnt it hah
Had a tub of those balls. Was useful for making moulds of things in had to get at places.
The filament at the end looks like it was made from recycled toilet paper.
bogrollment....nice
See not last in tech again. Very cool video!
Try OBC. Not particularly difficult to print. It's like TPU but different. I like it a lot.
Orthotics? This must be what they sell for printing plantar fascitis insoles then. This is something I've been meaning to try doing and was going to use TPU for
yes! I think it is!
I've had some success with "night splint" for my planner fashitius , did greatly reduce the morning first steps pain...
I didn't know they made a filament of this but well of course someone did... I got my first Polycaprolactone from Pearl in the form of coloured sheets about 20 years ago, it wasn't expensive... also the white little spheres, that's what you get when you buy "temporary tooth filling".
Pearl is the sort of... as-seen-on-TV... minus actually being on TV... and with pricing closer to reasonable... weird garbage and novelty things. Things that seem like they should be from the future (if you live in the 80s or 90s) except most of them are useless and don't work. But i also have a spiral binder from Pearl... and a sort of wearable electric heated blanket... some things are actually good.
Actually browsing their site right now... they have clip-on anaglyphic glasses! I would have wanted that 20 years ago... if i wore glasses back then! Might still buy tbh.
I don't know how you burn your fingers? It's still mouldable when it's not nearly hot enough for that. When you complain about lack of talent, maybe that's where it went?
Or rather than the sunlu thing, I can just feed from my toaster oven that goes out the back via PTFE tube straight to the extruder on my machine. 140-450*F range…. Suck it sunlu.
Reddit is full of people with melted reels who thought ovens were a great idea for drying filament. They are not.
@@LostInTech3DWell I’m a welder and fabricator, my reel sits in the middle of the oven via a steel rod held on both ends in place by metal disks that ride in turned grooves to keep the reel away from heating elements, and it’s also got a additional thermometer that uses remote probes with an alarm set if it goes over the desired temp so… zero issues with it and I have printed around 5kg from it this way just this year.
Setting up to print CF Nylon for higher heat resistant functional prints. I don’t waste time on props and such.
If it's working for you 😜 I would not recommend it though
@@LostInTech3D Ovens are okay for drying filament at around 60ºc. Just remember to take out the spool before you preheat the oven to 180ºc for dinner. (I learned that the hard way.)
That material at the end looks like a foaming material, either lw-PLA or foaming tpu. Is there a prize for getting it right? My guess is foaming TPU.
I already covered foaming TPU a few videos ago, but good guess...it does look similar
so, i do ameture metal casting, and this stuff would actually be super helpful for me, because instead of needing to use a forge to incinerate PLA filament from a plaster mold. with this i could just melt it in an oven
Nothing shows artistic confidence like labeling a bone so no one makes a dirty comment
Teflon coated nozzle doesn't help, PCL sticks to everything that is hot. For bridging use much lower temp and a bit faster speed.
Eh, that won't fly, even a couple degrees lower and it blocks the nozzle. 😔
Is the mystery filament CF or GF TPU?
nope!
@@LostInTech3Dreflect-o-lay reflective filament?
Excellent almost drawn knob,
Would this material be useful for "lost wax" techniques? e.g. print a 3D object of what you want to be done in bronze, cover it in plaster, melt out the printed object, refill with molten bronze.
Yes absolutely
You might need refrigerated air to do the part cooling.
In the dark days before the RepRap project makers would use these PCL pellets to make plastic parts with. I burnt my fingers many times pulling a melted lump of the stuff out of a teacup full of boiling water. Good times?
memorable times, haha. I wondered how people made those, obviously Adrian himself had access to CNCs.
i could be wrong but i heard that in the early days of reprap they also tried PCL alongside ABS. dont quote me on that
probably yeah
They did but never caught on
How brittle is this stuff in cold temps?
it's not, it's actually got a 43D shore hardness so it flexes.
@6:46
I wonder if it would help it bridge if you ran the printer inside of a freezer
I think it would 🤣
the little beads would be so dangerous to animal. I hope it would not block up their insides if accidentally swollowed.
Could it be used to print a mouth guard?
theoretically
@LostInTech3D that's pretty usefull, you can heat it in water and form it to your teeth.
I believe mouthguards are made of this. You could print your own mouthguard :)
I could indeed, although I'm not sure how I'd scan my teeth :D
I don't see anyone covering PMMA filament and its properties. I see it's available and not too expensive, but no one seems to mention it much. Maybe that would be a good video?
I'll note it down, this is definitely gonna be a thing now.
I wonder if this would work for lost plastic casting.
Is this the stuff they make mouldable bite-guards out of?
I believe so!
I got a question/ comment for the community and the TH-cam author. Is there a more scientific way to accurately pick and find the perfect temperature for a filament? I'm just so tired of seeing temp towers and whatever looks good. Does anyone have any inputs or thoughts on a more definitive way to know that's the right temperature? Then tweak retraction and all the other stuff?
this is how we ended up with temperature towers, they are the best way of doing it.
I am allergic to pointless fun. My life is awful
"Dolphin"? That's a Dog Dong when it's in the cradle.
This must be similar to the plastic you can melt and mold in boiling water.
the very same
Looks like mouthguard material
2:13 you forgot the r
no comment
The pen clearly malfunctioned.
@@LostInTech3D at first it looked like you were gonna draw one...
Yeah, Bone 😏
If you've ever worn fake teeth (costume or otherwise) or a "customizable" night guard, this is the stuff they use.
Is that reflective filament?
correct
@@LostInTech3D awesome, what do I win?
Even easier to compare 3D printing with a hot glue gun when printing with PCL.
+1 for poo shapes lulz
Is this.. hot glue? Or the stuff that cleaning filament is made out of?
neither. I wonder what cleaning filament is made out of, havent seen any for a while.
@@LostInTech3Dnylon based
That looks like hot melt glue. Is it?
It's not
Lol I bought like 50 of the samples for 5$ and have no clue what to do with it now
Haha, get a 3d pen
Dolphin? Looks more like Rex from Bad Dragon.
A dolphin. 🤣
That 3D pen is dodgy 😂
😂
The teaser material is concrete
concrete? lol
@@LostInTech3D yes, looks like it. Have been using it a while ago.
in a duel printhead system with modifications to gcode a much much smarter person than I could find a way to make a really easy to remove support material.
750grams for $114.00 USD, ouch
other brands are cheaper I think, if you can get them, like esun
It´s basically hot glue ....
Thank god that you are not a dentist :D
What if I am?
@@LostInTech3DIn that case I am truly lucky that I don't live UK :D