Thank you for this - I’ve been SOOOO busy lately and not been able to watch much TH-cam, I’m up in a storm to make sure our animals are ok though the night, informative, relevant and quiet comforting on this full on night 👍🤗🤝🤝🤝
I actually love a rocking sailboat. Slammed across the Pacific last year, like being on a trampoline with dumpsters banging into it. Slept like a baby. Very unusual. But no one, even experienced sailors, seem to like this, so good tip. And it looks like it would be fun, cheap and easy to experiment with. (The cheapest densest weights I've found are weight lifting plates. Cinder (breeze) blocks of course would be cheaper. So boom and then spinnaker pole?
If waves are coming in at an angle to the bows, you can tie a spring line from the stern to the chain, then winch in to rotate the boat to a drection that is perfectly in line with the waves.
Nice. I have seen a more advanced flopperstopper, where there were a moveable door in the middle, so that the water went through, when it was going down and shut on the upward movement. Nice to see that a simpler version works.
Awesome, seems obvious but I've never thought of this. I'd bet the reason why the depth is important is that the waves that cause the rolling are not only on the surface, but the water is actually moving up to certain depth. So you have to reach deep enough to grab the stationary water, as the shallow bits essentially move with the boat.
I have a triangular one made of plexiglass with a diver weight toward one corner. I also use a pole (boathook) from the base of the mast out using a halyard. this leaves the boom centered for other reasons, sun shade etc. It also brings the antiroll force more forward to act on the center of mass. It works great unless there is a big current flowing. My small full keel Bristol Corinthian rolls really bad without this device and is stable with it.
Nice!! Plexi glass sounds better than my old scraps of ply. Corinthians are great little exploring boats, I'll bet you can get in all the places we can only dream of being.
Definitely, @louisverelst8339 ! And we’ve often found that the cheapest solution is just as good (if not better) than the most expensive one 😁 Glad you liked the video
I guess the reason why the depth makes a difference is that will increase or decrease the weight of the column of water above the board (though maybe too deep would then add stretch to the rope, which would defeat the object) . :-)
Another possible factor is the distance the swell wave extends below the surface. You want to position the boards deep enough to find 'still' water so they're not moving in sinc with the wave.
In order to get it deep enough to not be affected by wave height, the depth must be >50% of the wave length. Note: most people underestimate wave length. Source: Adlards Heavy Weather Sailing (but a quick image search yields some nice diagrams).
Oooh this is smart. I own an old and tiny racing sailboat i cruise in. So there is already next to no comfort in the boat because its so small and light (22 foot, 1,4ton displacement)
Try tying your weights to the edge of the board where there's another hole. Then, the weight will pull down on the edge as the board starts to go down and will make the board tilt, thus making it sink more easily. It'll give a similar result to the comment below with a moveable door, but with less complication. I've had reasonable results in a very rolly anchorage with the dinghy rigged out on the end of the boom with a couple of jerry cans in it for weight. Rigged so that about half the dinghy weight is supported by the boom it dampened the roll well, although the dinghy weight meant a very slight list to that side.
My one evolved to a folding piece of Aluminium with the weight on the hinge down deep. Then a drouge chute just breaking the surface. The drouge pics up a bunch of water, draining it out slowly. That really deadens the small movements. The main opening of the drouge is held open with a cross piece of timber
Logically that antiroll damper willbe super effective with a length of chain .instead of rope . wet rope can stretch . Dynema would probably work. But the chain has the added advantage of adding weight to the setup.
Hi Richard, I have tried with dyneema core rope and it makes a bit of a jolt as it takes up sudden tension, so switched back to poly with a little stretch/ damping. If the board/boards sinks fast enough to have tension immediately then I guess it would be more effective. Not tried chain yet though. thanks for commenting
@@theincompetentcrew if only it could give me the winning lottery tickets too. Unfortunately I have none of the stuff I'd need to build one of these on board, but I'll add it to my shopping list. I need a project anyway
That’s interesting to know! We’ve sailed past many trawlers through big rolling seas and have wondered how they put up with the swell! I guess that’s part of it.
Like a snubber? We do that mainly to protect shock loads on the chain/windlass. But ye, you can actively see it stretching with each swell. It does help stop the hobby-horsing. Thanks
@@lubberwalker Hello! Wasn’t us, as we’re currently sailing south down the Atlantic coast of Spain/Portugal (check out our other vids if you’re interested)😄 Do we have a lookalike boat out there somewhere?
theincompetentcrewtheincompetentcrew yeah, they were completely codsing up picking up a buoy. Nah. Pulling your plonker. There was a well used boat set up for a lot more than the usual weekend sailing, lots of stern infrastructure, solar, vane, starling etc. and a weathered looking chap doing something similar to your floppy boards. It wasn't very rolly though anyway. You avoiding whales down there? Watch out for barbate.
Truth be told I don't know. Its a classic technique described in many old and new sailing books. And companies out there do sell more 'professional manufactured' versions of flopper stoppers. But my take on it is this- the standing rigging (all the stainless wires on my boat for instance are 10mm, MBL around 7.2 tonne (long tonne). the cap shrouds taking a lot of tension being around 20p.c. of MBL at all time. so mast etc should be fine. the boom when close hauled (sailing to wind) takes very high loads, I believe for my boat it can be up to up to a tonne or more (on the main sheet) . Also note, the boom is under compression, and under far less strain than say... a main sheet system mounted half way on the boom (creating leverage) that puts immense loads on (more than double) thus necessitating more blocks and a winch to grind in to close haul. Our topping lift block that takes most the strain in this setup is 400kg working load. The strain on the end of the rope when I have the flopper stopper line ran through a block (at the end of the boom)on occasion, is not more than I can hold by hand. probably 0.3kn/ 30kg? It doesn't shock load as the boat tries to build momentum and the momentum is dampened, thus disrupting the roll. maybe somebody can chime in from an engineering background with a better more accurate answer and correct me if i am wrong. :)
@@patrick-po2lx Yes, and you want to hold the boom down against the topping lift as well, so that there's no play, likewise tension between the preventer and whatever is holding the boom aft, whether that's the sheet or an after guy rigged for the purpose. No play means no shock loading, which is what does all the damage.
I guess you would have 3 times the anti-roll power? The boards I used in a stacked formation are just the bits of plywood I had lying around the day I tried it 3 years ago. I would guess if using larger wooden boards, you would also need more weight to sink them. And make sure your topping lift can take it. thanks for commenting
There is an optimal degree of damping force which should ideally match the roll moment of that particular vessel. If you make the damper much too large, it would begin to act like a solid pier, not matching and damping out the roll moment but snubbing it hard. If you've ever slept at the side of a pier in a seaway with the dock lines too tight, you'll know how particularly uncomfortable this motion can be. It's like being hit repeatedly with a massive hammer. It can easily ruin or break the lines and can even damage the boat.
Its more, kind of a- roll resistance damper more than just a weight. imagine trying to push a sheet of plywood sidewards through the water by hand. it doesn't have much weight, but the pressure of the water on the other side of the plywood provides resistance to the movement. That upwards pull on the ply each time the boat tries to roll disrupts the roll. I have just realized I am terrible at describing things :/
The reason I did it is because I would lose a lot of sleep. we made it 3 years ago and have used it often ever since. it makes a noticeable difference. I hope you try as it can probably be made with odd bits you have onboard already- a piece of plywood, a piece or rope and a weight. If you do try it, message and let us know how it works for you. Ben
I was such a sucker! I paid good money for Davis Instruments "Rocker Stoppers". Those are like rigid plastic sombreros you lower on each side of the boat. Its the same idea of a sea anchor against vertical movement.
I have seen them and heard a few people say they work. And if they work they work! Best money you could spend to get some decent sleep! Thanks for commenting
Surprised that such a small movement kept you awake. Your boat seems rather light hence the effect is good I gues. When it works it works. We had many days with rolling 15-20 degrees and wanted to minimize that. We tried making some calculations for a system with metal plates on both sides of the boat. Using spinnaker pole/mast like you did. But it came out they needed to at least 2x1 meter and on each side to have impact. We have not considered wood and a weight, We will certainly try what you did and see what we'll get maybe with some larger wood When its a lot of weight its making it very hard to bring them along. Our boats a bit heavier, you can jump on one side and there's no movement. Theres actually cones you can buy for the same goal, but they did not make a difference for us. (too small of a surface)
Hi Waltervanderboor. We are 13.5T (loaded) but cast iron long keel and round at the hips so roll gently/ quite easily. I'm jealous of most boats in most anchorages . In the video it was more of a demo as we did it a couple of days before when it was bad. The weights definitely help the boards sink faster so take strain earlier. Somebody in the comments suggested offsetting the weight to one side for better effect/ quicker sink. Let me know how your experimenting goes. what kind of boat do you have?
unacceptable to put a ply with such flaking-off paint into the water! you should be fined for intentionally polluting the marine env and made to clean up after yourself! the idea is nice, though, just really ignorant execution.
Hi uodafok666, thats a fair comment looking back at the vid, the paint was bad. I apologise to you and (more) to the environment. You might be happier to know it was scraped off a few months ago and is now bare ply. We do try to look after the environment and have spent a fair wack trying to be nicer to it. Again, fair comment. Regards, Ben
Thank you for this - I’ve been SOOOO busy lately and not been able to watch much TH-cam, I’m up in a storm to make sure our animals are ok though the night, informative, relevant and quiet comforting on this full on night 👍🤗🤝🤝🤝
I hope everything is safe, it is a brutal storm hitting. Glad you enjoyed.
@ same to you brother ✊🤗🤝 so far so good buddy 😎
Yes, I can confirm that this design works! I have 4 diving weights on mine... thanks for personally sharing this with me and less sleepless nights 😂
haha, fantastic john!! tune in next week on Blue Peter for...
I actually love a rocking sailboat. Slammed across the Pacific last year, like being on a trampoline with dumpsters banging into it. Slept like a baby. Very unusual. But no one, even experienced sailors, seem to like this, so good tip. And it looks like it would be fun, cheap and easy to experiment with. (The cheapest densest weights I've found are weight lifting plates. Cinder (breeze) blocks of course would be cheaper. So boom and then spinnaker pole?
If waves are coming in at an angle to the bows, you can tie a spring line from the stern to the chain, then winch in to rotate the boat to a drection that is perfectly in line with the waves.
That does work, I have used it a few times (provided there is a light breeze). Thanks for adding that, its a good quick method.
Looking at the horizon, you can clearly see the reduced motion. I’m impressed for certain! Have to make one this winter.
You should!
I kind of like the bobbing about at anchor. Its relaxing. Also in bed i get good sleep when the forward cabin is rocking around, willy nilly. 😀
I'm the opposite. Any movement with my head at the bow, no matter how small, feels like trying to sleep while riding a bull at a rodeo.😄 Ben
Nice. I have seen a more advanced flopperstopper, where there were a moveable door in the middle, so that the water went through, when it was going down and shut on the upward movement. Nice to see that a simpler version works.
Neat!, would be cool to see. I'm willing to bet a hundred people have a hundred different ways that will work.
Awesome, seems obvious but I've never thought of this. I'd bet the reason why the depth is important is that the waves that cause the rolling are not only on the surface, but the water is actually moving up to certain depth. So you have to reach deep enough to grab the stationary water, as the shallow bits essentially move with the boat.
Could well be and definately gets more resistance further down. Thanks for commenting
Good idea...nice video.
Thanks! The lessons we can learn from old books.
I have a triangular one made of plexiglass with a diver weight toward one corner. I also use a pole (boathook) from the base of the mast out using a halyard. this leaves the boom centered for other reasons, sun shade etc. It also brings the antiroll force more forward to act on the center of mass. It works great unless there is a big current flowing. My small full keel Bristol Corinthian rolls really bad without this device and is stable with it.
Nice!! Plexi glass sounds better than my old scraps of ply. Corinthians are great little exploring boats, I'll bet you can get in all the places we can only dream of being.
thanks, simplicity is the ultimate complexity
Definitely, @louisverelst8339 ! And we’ve often found that the cheapest solution is just as good (if not better) than the most expensive one 😁 Glad you liked the video
I guess the reason why the depth makes a difference is that will increase or decrease the weight of the column of water above the board (though maybe too deep would then add stretch to the rope, which would defeat the object) . :-)
Thanks for the comment. Sounds very logical and would line up with my experimenting. both depth and rope used make a difference.
Another possible factor is the distance the swell wave extends below the surface. You want to position the boards deep enough to find 'still' water so they're not moving in sinc with the wave.
@@philipwright7186 True, this may be why on different days, with shorter or longer waves, it does have to be deeper. both great comments! thanks guys!
In order to get it deep enough to not be affected by wave height, the depth must be >50% of the wave length. Note: most people underestimate wave length. Source: Adlards Heavy Weather Sailing (but a quick image search yields some nice diagrams).
@@craigs1710 I have seen these diagrams :). It is shocking how big the actual wave can be going down underwater. Thanks for the comment.
Oooh this is smart. I own an old and tiny racing sailboat i cruise in. So there is already next to no comfort in the boat because its so small and light (22 foot, 1,4ton displacement)
Nice!! small boat always feel the best when cruising around the coast and rivers
Try tying your weights to the edge of the board where there's another hole. Then, the weight will pull down on the edge as the board starts to go down and will make the board tilt, thus making it sink more easily. It'll give a similar result to the comment below with a moveable door, but with less complication.
I've had reasonable results in a very rolly anchorage with the dinghy rigged out on the end of the boom with a couple of jerry cans in it for weight. Rigged so that about half the dinghy weight is supported by the boom it dampened the roll well, although the dinghy weight meant a very slight list to that side.
That is two good ideas, thanks Julian. As I don't have a stbd side one at the present moment, I will have a play about with your dinghy idea.
That will work, the larger the boards the better, brill!
Cheers
My one evolved to a folding piece of Aluminium with the weight on the hinge down deep. Then a drouge chute just breaking the surface. The drouge pics up a bunch of water, draining it out slowly. That really deadens the small movements. The main opening of the drouge is held open with a cross piece of timber
Thanks for the evolved ideas Ecclesheat. I haven't change mine in 3 year, but I'm now getting the urge to play about with the setup a bit more.
I'm glad you were recommended today, I enjoyed your tip. I'll subscribe and follow along!
thanks crazyjon616!!
I'm eager to try this next time I'm at anchor. Thanks
Hope it works for you like it has for us :)
Thanks for sharing we will try that the next we are rolling to bad
Hope it works for you
that's really neat!
Thanks Adel
Logically that antiroll damper willbe super effective with a length of chain .instead of rope . wet rope can stretch . Dynema would probably work. But the chain has the added advantage of adding weight to the setup.
Hi Richard, I have tried with dyneema core rope and it makes a bit of a jolt as it takes up sudden tension, so switched back to poly with a little stretch/ damping. If the board/boards sinks fast enough to have tension immediately then I guess it would be more effective. Not tried chain yet though. thanks for commenting
Nice 👍
Hope it helps😀 cheers!
Shrimp boats have been using them for ever.
Testimony to a good idea!
This is brilliant
thanks
I'm currently at anchor with a lot of roll, and it worries me that TH-cam recommended it to me.
Thanks though
The youtube algorithm knows all.... Including the roll of your boat. :)
@@theincompetentcrew if only it could give me the winning lottery tickets too.
Unfortunately I have none of the stuff I'd need to build one of these on board, but I'll add it to my shopping list. I need a project anyway
Thanks for posting.
Hope you enjoyed. If you stick around some more fun stuff coming on over the next week or two :)
Hmmm interesting. Might try these on my next cruise.
Excellent! I hope you get good results
No. The effect is that the waves attenuates with depth. You clearly feel that when diving, or by calculation if you don’t dive. 😊
Cool stuff mate
Cheers
If you put netting around your boards and some bait in there you might catch some crab for dinner
In that case hold my beer and watch this...
Brilliant!
@@mauricioortizbuitrago3183 😁 thanks
Trawlers have these called paravanes and they work for sure
That’s interesting to know! We’ve sailed past many trawlers through big rolling seas and have wondered how they put up with the swell! I guess that’s part of it.
Would be nice to see in a really rolling anchorage
My first try would be to tie a spring on the anchor rode.
Like a snubber? We do that mainly to protect shock loads on the chain/windlass. But ye, you can actively see it stretching with each swell. It does help stop the hobby-horsing. Thanks
@@theincompetentcrew No. Tie a spring line to the rode, run it back to a stern winch, then crank on it to point the bow into the swell.
@@jeffdege4786 Ahhh, got you. Yes, have also done this.
Boom out essential
Further out the better :)
Works for me
Glad to hear, thanks for the comment.
Did I see you in Lulworth last week?
@@lubberwalker Hello! Wasn’t us, as we’re currently sailing south down the Atlantic coast of Spain/Portugal (check out our other vids if you’re interested)😄 Do we have a lookalike boat out there somewhere?
theincompetentcrewtheincompetentcrew yeah, they were completely codsing up picking up a buoy.
Nah. Pulling your plonker. There was a well used boat set up for a lot more than the usual weekend sailing, lots of stern infrastructure, solar, vane, starling etc. and a weathered looking chap doing something similar to your floppy boards.
It wasn't very rolly though anyway.
You avoiding whales down there?
Watch out for barbate.
😮 I wouldn’t have believed it if you didn’t have the video recording in the corner to corroborate
Thanks for the comment, it does take a little adjusting to get it to work well, and no doubt different hulls types will behave a little different.
Isn’t that damaging the boom overtime ? Especially if the sea is agitated ?
Truth be told I don't know. Its a classic technique described in many old and new sailing books. And companies out there do sell more 'professional manufactured' versions of flopper stoppers. But my take on it is this- the standing rigging (all the stainless wires on my boat for instance are 10mm, MBL around 7.2 tonne (long tonne). the cap shrouds taking a lot of tension being around 20p.c. of MBL at all time. so mast etc should be fine. the boom when close hauled (sailing to wind) takes very high loads, I believe for my boat it can be up to up to a tonne or more (on the main sheet) . Also note, the boom is under compression, and under far less strain than say... a main sheet system mounted half way on the boom (creating leverage) that puts immense loads on (more than double) thus necessitating more blocks and a winch to grind in to close haul. Our topping lift block that takes most the strain in this setup is 400kg working load. The strain on the end of the rope when I have the flopper stopper line ran through a block (at the end of the boom)on occasion, is not more than I can hold by hand. probably 0.3kn/ 30kg? It doesn't shock load as the boat tries to build momentum and the momentum is dampened, thus disrupting the roll. maybe somebody can chime in from an engineering background with a better more accurate answer and correct me if i am wrong. :)
@@theincompetentcrewas you suggest, the topping lift would seem the part of the rig to observe closely in this arrangement.
@@patrick-po2lx
Yes, and you want to hold the boom down against the topping lift as well, so that there's no play, likewise tension between the preventer and whatever is holding the boom aft, whether that's the sheet or an after guy rigged for the purpose.
No play means no shock loading, which is what does all the damage.
What if you use much larger wooden boards? Like 3 times the size?
I guess you would have 3 times the anti-roll power? The boards I used in a stacked formation are just the bits of plywood I had lying around the day I tried it 3 years ago. I would guess if using larger wooden boards, you would also need more weight to sink them. And make sure your topping lift can take it. thanks for commenting
There is an optimal degree of damping force which should ideally match the roll moment of that particular vessel.
If you make the damper much too large, it would begin to act like a solid pier, not matching and damping out the roll moment but snubbing it hard.
If you've ever slept at the side of a pier in a seaway with the dock lines too tight, you'll know how particularly uncomfortable this motion can be. It's like being hit repeatedly with a massive hammer. It can easily ruin or break the lines and can even damage the boat.
@@starfishsystems Thanks a very good point. Ours are small Thanks for adding that.
So ? the flopper stopper once its tied off acts as a counter weight to stabilize the boat ? yes ?
Its more, kind of a- roll resistance damper more than just a weight. imagine trying to push a sheet of plywood sidewards through the water by hand. it doesn't have much weight, but the pressure of the water on the other side of the plywood provides resistance to the movement. That upwards pull on the ply each time the boat tries to roll disrupts the roll. I have just realized I am terrible at describing things :/
My wife on a sudden she's having issues just in bed time on the anchorage on the marina, everywhere! My question is, is it worth it?
The reason I did it is because I would lose a lot of sleep. we made it 3 years ago and have used it often ever since. it makes a noticeable difference. I hope you try as it can probably be made with odd bits you have onboard already- a piece of plywood, a piece or rope and a weight. If you do try it, message and let us know how it works for you. Ben
@@theincompetentcrew will do! Thank you mate, cheers.
I was such a sucker! I paid good money for Davis Instruments "Rocker Stoppers". Those are like rigid plastic sombreros you lower on each side of the boat. Its the same idea of a sea anchor against vertical movement.
I have seen them and heard a few people say they work. And if they work they work! Best money you could spend to get some decent sleep! Thanks for commenting
Surprised that such a small movement kept you awake. Your boat seems rather light hence the effect is good I gues. When it works it works. We had many days with rolling 15-20 degrees and wanted to minimize that. We tried making some calculations for a system with metal plates on both sides of the boat. Using spinnaker pole/mast like you did. But it came out they needed to at least 2x1 meter and on each side to have impact. We have not considered wood and a weight, We will certainly try what you did and see what we'll get maybe with some larger wood When its a lot of weight its making it very hard to bring them along. Our boats a bit heavier, you can jump on one side and there's no movement. Theres actually cones you can buy for the same goal, but they did not make a difference for us. (too small of a surface)
Hi Waltervanderboor. We are 13.5T (loaded) but cast iron long keel and round at the hips so roll gently/ quite easily. I'm jealous of most boats in most anchorages . In the video it was more of a demo as we did it a couple of days before when it was bad. The weights definitely help the boards sink faster so take strain earlier. Somebody in the comments suggested offsetting the weight to one side for better effect/ quicker sink. Let me know how your experimenting goes. what kind of boat do you have?
@@theincompetentcrew we're 50 ft, rather wide and have bulb keel. its about 35T kg.
😃😇
:)
Vissers truc .
Correct
What a wonderful metaphor for achieving political stability in times of trouble when the heel of the boat becomes an annoyance.
Haha, Brilliant Comment!!
Ahh just buy a Catamaran 😂😊
Steady bet.
OR……….buy a cat 😮
@@taylorbooth681 😂 do you think it will cost the same as my scrap plywood and diving weights? If so, I’m in.
unacceptable to put a ply with such flaking-off paint into the water!
you should be fined for intentionally polluting the marine env and made to clean up after yourself!
the idea is nice, though, just really ignorant execution.
Hi uodafok666, thats a fair comment looking back at the vid, the paint was bad. I apologise to you and (more) to the environment. You might be happier to know it was scraped off a few months ago and is now bare ply. We do try to look after the environment and have spent a fair wack trying to be nicer to it. Again, fair comment. Regards, Ben