I love Opposition Agent. Not for stealing good things, seeing what is in the player's hand, looking at their morphs & face-down exiles, etc., but because it is a tutor-hoser. I get no end of joy hosing tutors. :)
Uh, yeah, that's the primary reason people run it, it absolutely obliterates decks that rely on fetch lands and tutors for combo peaces. Gaining "perfect" information is just gravy, and the fact that you get to remove a card from their deck & play it yourself just sweetens the deal.
@@seanheath4492 My Opp Agent favorite play was T3, opp cracked a fetch and I flashed it in to get their land. I was starting to feel pretty bad about it when he broke in to a half-smile and admitted he'd done it to several people in the past and never knew how it felt. He then complimented my play and we had a great time.
So the effective end state is that Beseech+Agent is the same outcome as Diabolic Tutor+Agent. Agent effectively nullifies all other differences in card text. Neat.
3:33 I never really thought about it before being told that this is the specific rule that applies here, but it made me realize exiled cards are always considered in a public zone, even if they are exiled face-down. And what I actually found the hardest to understand (because I am not really following new sets, so I never saw it used) was what opposition agent actually does, "each card they find" seemed pretty weird to me because it almost felt like you should exile all cards having the required characteristics for the search. But as you said, words sometimes have a specific meaning in mtg, and it's the case here for "find" that specifically talks about the card you *choose* from the search.
If Amy had played Beseech the Queen, Nick would need to have Amy point to a card following the restriction OR have Amy fail to find! While that probably wouldn't help Nick that much, it's worth noting that it's an option whenever there is such a restriction on searching.
yep, ive done this myself against a fetchland. i didnt need mana, and preferred to have them have a slightly higher chance of drawing lands in future. dunno if that was the right call, or what the overall change was, but its something you can dp
@@crancpiti Correct. Replacement effects are templated If (something) , comma, instead (something else), and the affected player would be able to choose which one took effect.
My intuition was completely right. Your question about what changes when it's bargained made me feel a bit insecure, but I kept with my initial assessment.
Wow, I totally struck out on this one! I thought Beseech would still work on the card since it would get exiled anyway. Thanks for the video! Oppo Agent a pretty weird card.
Interesting so I was half right. My hunch was this is a replacement effect so the Opposition Agent would win, and it does but it's not technically a replacement effect. It's just one thing happening before another haha.
Funnily enough, if it had been a replacement effect, I think that Beseech would have won. In that case "search" would have been replaced by "search and exile (face up)" on the Beseech itself. So the exiling would have been part of the effect of Beseech, and therefore the rest of it's instructions should be able to find it in exile. Beseech exiled it itself, after all. (Maybe someone can confirm my reasoning here, I am not 100% certain on this :D )
@@ridiculous_foxI think you're right, which is why OA is not a replacement effect, because then the cards wouldn't be exiled with OA. They would be exiled with whatever was searching for them.
4:02 after Beseech The Mirror resolves, why does Nick get priority? Beseech is a Sorcery, so Amy (typically) only would have been able to cast it on her turn while the stack is empty. So after it resolves, the stack is empty, so wouldn't priority go to whoever's turn it is?
I think what he's meaning to say, but maybe just went too fast, is "After Beseech resolves, WHEN Nick will get priority...". Nick doesn't get to cast the exiled spell as Beseech resolves like Amy normally might since he actually exiled it with Agent. Agent still lets him cast it, just not while skirting timing or priority restrictions.
Since both effects try to exile the card, what causes opposition to exile the card before beseech the mirror exiles the card? If Beseech was to exile before opposition exiled, presumably the opposite outcome would occur.
How would opposition agent work with panglacial wurm? Would you be able to cast an opponent’s wurm ignoring timing restrictions if you have opposition agent?
If your opponent has enough mana sources available, you can force them to activate mana abilities and pay the pay the 5GG to cast Panglacial Wurm. Note that intentionally taking an illegal game action is not allowed, so you cannot force the opponent to attempt to cast Panglacial Wurm but then not have enough mana.
If Opposition Agent is searching a library that has Panglacial Wurm in it, and the Library's owner has the mana to cast that spell, then Opposition Agent's controller can force the owner of the Panglacial Wurm to cast it. Note you can't make your opponent take an illegal game action, so you can't make the opponent tap their lands unless they have enough mana to cast the Wurm (and the wurm has to actually be in there).
"After Beseech the Mirror finishes resolving, Nick will get priority." I don't understand why Nick gets priority instead of Amy. Is this because of Opposition Agent somehow?
Technically, what happens is that after Beseech the Mirror finishes resolving, Amy will get priority, and Nick will get priority after that. But Amy getting priority doesn't affect anything related to what I was talking about, so I just left that part out.
So if Nick controls Amy while she’s searching, does that mean that he can look at Amy’s entire deck? If so, would Amy just hand Nick her deck, and he look through it face up so Amy can see as well? Does Nick get to shuffle Amy’s deck and cut, or offer Amy to cut her own deck to ensure Nick isn’t “stacking” her deck? Or does Amy shuffle until Nick is satisfied? If Nick sees that he has no answers to her deck, can he concede mid search? Since Nick controls Amy while she’s searching, is Amy able to concede at the beginning or mid search or in response to the card chosen? Or does Amy have to wait until after the deck is searched and the card is exiled? I apologize for laundry list of follow up questions to this video. Magic is very difficult and I appreciate your judging videos.
Since you control that player, you're able to look at their entire library, hand, and any face down exiled cards etc (but you can't physically reveal this information to others at say, a multiplayer commander game). Amy would just hand Nick her deck, Nick would select the card and give the deck back for Amy to shuffle as is appropriate - and then probably present for Nick to cut. I don't think you need to be very particular about worrying about people stacking the deck - if you suspect this, then thats something to take to the judge or playgroup rather than enforce via rules, lol. Nick could concede himself, or Amy herself, at anytime before, during and after the resolution. You don't need to wait to concede for any specific timing.
@@fwalduck4091I don't think Nick can force Amy to physically hand over her deck if she doesn't want him to touch it. Also, just want to reiterate and refine when you said about how Nick can't physically reveal that information, that does however mean that he can reveal that information by telling them
Yes, the player searching can look through the entire deck if the card says to 'search your library' Any restriction to this, Say for example Aven Mindcensor which limits searches to the top four cards instead - would replace the 'search your library' to 'search the top four cards of that library'. And would limit how many cards can be searched this way. 701.19 - covers Search As for the deck portion, it would be just easier for Amy to hand Nick the library to search, Amy can also be the one who holds the deck and Nick can observe the search and dictate which card is found. In a multiplayer format, the library is still a hidden zone so measure should still be taken to keep that zone private from the other players who are not privy to such information. Doesn't mean that Nick can't search with the library revealed though. 400.2 - covers Public and Hidden zones Amy shuffles, Nick is only in control of the Search. Nick can still shuffle after Amy has shuffled. 104.3a - A Player can concede the game at any time. With that being said, at least in my play group for multiplayer - Concede is at Sorcery speed. So that way a player can't concede as an advantage, ie spite concede to deny another opponent an advantage. Say for example in a multiplayer format Player A who has Sword of Feast and Famine on a creature and Aggravated Assault on the board goes Combat. Decides to swing on Player B, who controls no creatures and is tapped out, so they can untap all their lands to activate Aggravated Assault. Player B can't concede during the combat to prevent Player A from gaining the advantage of untapping their lands from the sword trigger. Now have players concede at instant speed, yes. Stuff happens.
@@danielfrazier5586 thank you for informing me of this. Magic is difficult enough and there are so many situations and variables to consider and take into account when playing.
This feels at surface level like an easy question. Opposition agent yoinks the cards that your opponent searches for. Beseech the mirror searches for a card. Of course you’re going to get to grab something from your opponent’s library, that’s what the card does.
Wait, why would Nick get priority after Beseech the Mirror resolves? Sure he gets priority after Op Agent resolves, but after Beseech, shouldn’t it go back to Amy since it’s A-her turn and B- her spell that just resolved?
Not sure what "intended" is, but the rules seem to support it just fine. They typically update the rules or Oracle text if they need to support a card better (or if it's old, they just let it not work as intended because system changes have a cost).
@@LibertyMonk the judge community can't find a rule that supports why OA rules text is followed instead of following the instructions for whatever card is allowing the player to search in the first place.
I love Opposition Agent.
Not for stealing good things, seeing what is in the player's hand, looking at their morphs & face-down exiles, etc., but because it is a tutor-hoser. I get no end of joy hosing tutors. :)
Also screws over fetch lands (which could be looked at as basic land tutors, I guess).
Uh, yeah, that's the primary reason people run it, it absolutely obliterates decks that rely on fetch lands and tutors for combo peaces. Gaining "perfect" information is just gravy, and the fact that you get to remove a card from their deck & play it yourself just sweetens the deal.
@@seanheath4492 My Opp Agent favorite play was T3, opp cracked a fetch and I flashed it in to get their land. I was starting to feel pretty bad about it when he broke in to a half-smile and admitted he'd done it to several people in the past and never knew how it felt. He then complimented my play and we had a great time.
So the effective end state is that Beseech+Agent is the same outcome as Diabolic Tutor+Agent. Agent effectively nullifies all other differences in card text. Neat.
3:33 I never really thought about it before being told that this is the specific rule that applies here, but it made me realize exiled cards are always considered in a public zone, even if they are exiled face-down.
And what I actually found the hardest to understand (because I am not really following new sets, so I never saw it used) was what opposition agent actually does, "each card they find" seemed pretty weird to me because it almost felt like you should exile all cards having the required characteristics for the search. But as you said, words sometimes have a specific meaning in mtg, and it's the case here for "find" that specifically talks about the card you *choose* from the search.
I didn't think about the bargained version wouldn't be able to find the new object. This was a good video, thanks!
Grisly Bear is always caught up in the most complex situations haha
If Amy had played Beseech the Queen, Nick would need to have Amy point to a card following the restriction OR have Amy fail to find! While that probably wouldn't help Nick that much, it's worth noting that it's an option whenever there is such a restriction on searching.
yep, ive done this myself against a fetchland.
i didnt need mana, and preferred to have them have a slightly higher chance of drawing lands in future.
dunno if that was the right call, or what the overall change was, but its something you can dp
I can't remember if Dave's done a video on two Opposition Agents in a multiplayer game. I've had that come up and it seems pretty confusing.
This one isn't too hard, fortunately. It's just timestamped - whichever Opposition Agent entered the battlefield most recently wins.
@@ZzectbuSo it's not a replacement effect? If that was the case the affected player could get to choose the order of the replacement effects right?
@@crancpiti Correct. Replacement effects are templated If (something) , comma, instead (something else), and the affected player would be able to choose which one took effect.
My intuition was completely right. Your question about what changes when it's bargained made me feel a bit insecure, but I kept with my initial assessment.
Wow, I totally struck out on this one! I thought Beseech would still work on the card since it would get exiled anyway. Thanks for the video! Oppo Agent a pretty weird card.
Interesting so I was half right. My hunch was this is a replacement effect so the Opposition Agent would win, and it does but it's not technically a replacement effect. It's just one thing happening before another haha.
Funnily enough, if it had been a replacement effect, I think that Beseech would have won. In that case "search" would have been replaced by "search and exile (face up)" on the Beseech itself. So the exiling would have been part of the effect of Beseech, and therefore the rest of it's instructions should be able to find it in exile. Beseech exiled it itself, after all.
(Maybe someone can confirm my reasoning here, I am not 100% certain on this :D )
@@ridiculous_foxI think you're right, which is why OA is not a replacement effect, because then the cards wouldn't be exiled with OA. They would be exiled with whatever was searching for them.
4:02 after Beseech The Mirror resolves, why does Nick get priority? Beseech is a Sorcery, so Amy (typically) only would have been able to cast it on her turn while the stack is empty. So after it resolves, the stack is empty, so wouldn't priority go to whoever's turn it is?
I think what he's meaning to say, but maybe just went too fast, is "After Beseech resolves, WHEN Nick will get priority...". Nick doesn't get to cast the exiled spell as Beseech resolves like Amy normally might since he actually exiled it with Agent. Agent still lets him cast it, just not while skirting timing or priority restrictions.
Oooh yeah, good point. Simply making the distinction that Nick can't cast the spell WHILE Beseech is resolving, but only AFTER it's finished resolving
I just played a game on mtgo where it let me, the player who controlled beseech the mirror, cast it. Is this an error in its rules engine?
Since both effects try to exile the card, what causes opposition to exile the card before beseech the mirror exiles the card? If Beseech was to exile before opposition exiled, presumably the opposite outcome would occur.
How would opposition agent work with panglacial wurm? Would you be able to cast an opponent’s wurm ignoring timing restrictions if you have opposition agent?
If your opponent has enough mana sources available, you can force them to activate mana abilities and pay the pay the 5GG to cast Panglacial Wurm.
Note that intentionally taking an illegal game action is not allowed, so you cannot force the opponent to attempt to cast Panglacial Wurm but then not have enough mana.
Wow this channel is blowing up! Amazing job 🎉
How does it work with Opposition Agent and Panglacial Wurm? Could I tell Amy to play Panglacial Wurm while she is searching?
Your stuff is so interesting.
Thanks dave
How do Agent and Panglacial Wurm interact with each other?
If Opposition Agent is searching a library that has Panglacial Wurm in it, and the Library's owner has the mana to cast that spell, then Opposition Agent's controller can force the owner of the Panglacial Wurm to cast it.
Note you can't make your opponent take an illegal game action, so you can't make the opponent tap their lands unless they have enough mana to cast the Wurm (and the wurm has to actually be in there).
"After Beseech the Mirror finishes resolving, Nick will get priority."
I don't understand why Nick gets priority instead of Amy. Is this because of Opposition Agent somehow?
Technically, what happens is that after Beseech the Mirror finishes resolving, Amy will get priority, and Nick will get priority after that. But Amy getting priority doesn't affect anything related to what I was talking about, so I just left that part out.
So if Nick controls Amy while she’s searching, does that mean that he can look at Amy’s entire deck? If so, would Amy just hand Nick her deck, and he look through it face up so Amy can see as well? Does Nick get to shuffle Amy’s deck and cut, or offer Amy to cut her own deck to ensure Nick isn’t “stacking” her deck? Or does Amy shuffle until Nick is satisfied? If Nick sees that he has no answers to her deck, can he concede mid search? Since Nick controls Amy while she’s searching, is Amy able to concede at the beginning or mid search or in response to the card chosen? Or does Amy have to wait until after the deck is searched and the card is exiled? I apologize for laundry list of follow up questions to this video. Magic is very difficult and I appreciate your judging videos.
Since you control that player, you're able to look at their entire library, hand, and any face down exiled cards etc (but you can't physically reveal this information to others at say, a multiplayer commander game).
Amy would just hand Nick her deck, Nick would select the card and give the deck back for Amy to shuffle as is appropriate - and then probably present for Nick to cut. I don't think you need to be very particular about worrying about people stacking the deck - if you suspect this, then thats something to take to the judge or playgroup rather than enforce via rules, lol.
Nick could concede himself, or Amy herself, at anytime before, during and after the resolution. You don't need to wait to concede for any specific timing.
@@fwalduck4091I don't think Nick can force Amy to physically hand over her deck if she doesn't want him to touch it.
Also, just want to reiterate and refine when you said about how Nick can't physically reveal that information, that does however mean that he can reveal that information by telling them
@@fwalduck4091 thank you very much for the clarification on my question. It is much appreciated.
Yes, the player searching can look through the entire deck if the card says to 'search your library' Any restriction to this, Say for example Aven Mindcensor which limits searches to the top four cards instead - would replace the 'search your library' to 'search the top four cards of that library'. And would limit how many cards can be searched this way. 701.19 - covers Search
As for the deck portion, it would be just easier for Amy to hand Nick the library to search, Amy can also be the one who holds the deck and Nick can observe the search and dictate which card is found. In a multiplayer format, the library is still a hidden zone so measure should still be taken to keep that zone private from the other players who are not privy to such information. Doesn't mean that Nick can't search with the library revealed though.
400.2 - covers Public and Hidden zones
Amy shuffles, Nick is only in control of the Search. Nick can still shuffle after Amy has shuffled.
104.3a - A Player can concede the game at any time.
With that being said, at least in my play group for multiplayer - Concede is at Sorcery speed. So that way a player can't concede as an advantage, ie spite concede to deny another opponent an advantage. Say for example in a multiplayer format Player A who has Sword of Feast and Famine on a creature and Aggravated Assault on the board goes Combat. Decides to swing on Player B, who controls no creatures and is tapped out, so they can untap all their lands to activate Aggravated Assault. Player B can't concede during the combat to prevent Player A from gaining the advantage of untapping their lands from the sword trigger.
Now have players concede at instant speed, yes. Stuff happens.
@@danielfrazier5586 thank you for informing me of this. Magic is difficult enough and there are so many situations and variables to consider and take into account when playing.
This feels at surface level like an easy question. Opposition agent yoinks the cards that your opponent searches for. Beseech the mirror searches for a card. Of course you’re going to get to grab something from your opponent’s library, that’s what the card does.
Wait, why would Nick get priority after Beseech the Mirror resolves? Sure he gets priority after Op Agent resolves, but after Beseech, shouldn’t it go back to Amy since it’s A-her turn and B- her spell that just resolved?
It does, but then she passes, and Nick is finally allowed to cast the found spell (if able).
@@LibertyMonk well yeah, that much is pretty obvious. The way Dave said it made it sound like Nick gets priority first then Amy
I hear the CR doesn't support OA working as intended. I would love to see a video about Opp agent doesn't work.
Not sure what "intended" is, but the rules seem to support it just fine. They typically update the rules or Oracle text if they need to support a card better (or if it's old, they just let it not work as intended because system changes have a cost).
@@LibertyMonk the judge community can't find a rule that supports why OA rules text is followed instead of following the instructions for whatever card is allowing the player to search in the first place.
Reading the card explains the card.
Reading the CR explains the card