🎹Bösendorfer vs C. Bechstein Pianos Comparison - High-End Grand Pianos🎹
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Hello, and thanks for being here at the Merriam Pianos TH-cam channel. We’ve got a special video for you today wherein Stu Harrison guides the viewer through some ‘Tasting Notes’, or comparison points between two legendary European piano builders - Bosendorfer and C. Bechstein.
We decided to start with these two venerable brands as these seem to be the most often compared luxury piano brands, especially in Europe. In fact, Bosendorfer’s own promotional material cites C. Bechstein as their chief competitor, despite the hugely different musical experiences each brand offers.
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Similarities
One notable similarity between these two manufacturer’s is that they boast the longest two production times of any production piano on Earth. Though Bechstein’s timeline is marginally longer, each manufacturer’s flagship concert grand takes approximately 15 months to build after all of the wood and pre-assembly components are ready to be worked.
Secondly, they both occupied the majority of noble, royal, and cultural halls throughout Europe from the mid 1850’s up to about WW2. This is pretty much where the similarities stop.
Market Share
Despite fierce competition, the battle for market share is currently being won by C. Bechstein. In terms of the share of sales for performance level pianos, the 2019 retail statistics in Germany attribute 58% of all high-end grand and upright sales to C. Bechstein.
Philosophical Differences
Everything else about these two companies speaks to different philosophies, designs and ultimately, different playing experiences. Where Bosendorfer has stuck with their overall piano design for more than 100 years, C. Bechstein on the other hand have gone through many design innovations that continue to this day, driven by their R&D department.
Design Differences
Bosedorfer’s design highlights include the extra wide tail design, larger soundboard and spruce panels directly connected to the soundboard. The bass register features an unmistakably brassy tone, and certain models feature extra keys.
C. Bechstein’s design highlights include the use of a treble bell on certain models, multi capped vertically laminated bridges, scissor joinery on their Val di Fiemme soundboards and their full perimeter inner rim for maximum resonance.
Musical Differences
The playing experience between these two is easily articulated. The dynamic output between a Bosendorfer and it’s comparable Bechstein is quite different, to the point that even a smaller Bechstein will sound louder than a larger Bosendorfer.
The harmonic complexity of the Bechstein provides a thicker mid range and a more complex treble. The Bosendorfer creates a more orchestral sonic effect due to the rim design, which enhances the sense of space to the player.
Both pianos have a fluid and effortless action, amongst the best in the world today.
Company Differences
With little more than a few hundred pianos produced each year, Bosendorfer’s existing business model reached a point in the early 2010’s where new corporate ownership was the only feasible way forward with Yamaha stepping in and acquiring the company. Yamaha hasn’t changed the operation, but has benefited greatly from their association with the Bosendorfer brand.
C. Bechstein, while having changed hands several times, has done so under very different circumstances. Currently profitable and growing, back in the early 2000’s Bechstein attracted the attention of a wealthy Berlin based investor with a passion for the arts. Since his acquisition of the company, he has invested nearly 100 million Euro into the brand with the clear goal of dominance, both in terms of musicality and market share.
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I dream of creating a documentary series on the piano (early keyboard instruments, history, construction techniques, industry standards of the 20th and 21st century, interviewing famous pianists etc.) and travelling to different manufacturing companies in America, Europe and Asia. Stu Harrison would be the first person I'd approach to present this video series. Knowledgeable, articulate, passionate about pianos and has really become a polished presenter since the early days of videos from Merriam Music. I've found only 2 ten-minute TH-cam videos on the history of the piano. There is a real need for a logical, progressive video series on this wonderful instrument, especially for piano enthusiasts like myself.
I'm OK with just listening to Stu play almost any piano.
How does this not already exist?! We need this type of media as musicians. You have the perfect blend of passion meets analytical thinking to take on the endeavor.
I am not in the market to buy anything. I confess I watch these reviews to listen Stu play. He's talking this and that, turns and out of nowhere starts to play something ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL and EFFORTLESS, to then seamlessly continue with the narrative. Later, I need to look for my jaw.
These grand pianos are way out of my budget and, to tell you the truth, way better than my skill level would deserve but I find comparisons like this highly interesting. As a proud and happy owner of a C. Bechstein Europe built upright (Hoffmann T122 ), it makes me happy that there is still a European piano manufacturer of such quality able to compete with the Asian giants to carry on the tradition. Kudos to that unnamed investor :-)
I also have a Hoffmann upright (built by C.Bechstein Europe) and although I can really only play at Grade 4 level, the instrument gives me a lot of pleasure - so - whilst the instrument isn't a "full Bechstein" piano - can I say: LONG LIVE BECHSTEIN !
@@Digibeatle09 another happy Hoffmann owner :-) I'm sure it will give you many years of enjoyment. Which model did you get ?
@@gabithemagyar Vision 126 - I doubt the smaller cabinet size of the Tradition 122 you have counts for very much - possibly the Vision 126 has more power in the bass.
@@Digibeatle09 I understand the Tradition and Vision lines differ from each other in some design and construction details and have somewhat different tonal characteristics. The main thing is to have an instrument that you love that suits the size of room into which it will be placed and the style of music you like to play. I'm a happy camper and am really pleased with my piano. I see that you are too :-)) All the best ! Enjoy your pianistic musical adventures ! :-)
@@gabithemagyar Thanks !
Stu, I would suggest updating info on Bosendorfer. They were acquired by Yamaha who has helped Bosendorfer spend a lot money and effort on their VC series (Vienna Concert) which are definitely computer-aided designed modern 20/21st century pianos. Yes, the older models have a very old design but the VC's are different and thoroughly modern and redesigned from the traditional line of Bosendorfer pianos. Bosendorfer has reasonable success selling the new VC models but not at the volume of Bechstein. But Bechstein has also lower Academy line where Bosendorfer is very high line throughout the range. I don't know how much of the sales is Bechstein's highest end Concert line.
More head-to-head sound comparison would be nice. The Bosendorfer excerpt does sound lovely, however! As different as these two brands are, they would both be on my short list (along with Bluthner) for a good grand piano.
Thanks for the suggestion! We will definitely do our be best to tackle more head-to-head comparison videos of acoustic grands. :)
Thanks for another great video Stu !
It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on C Bechstein vs Hamburg Steinway
Really enjoyed this essay, well written, lots of cool bits of info (which was new to me!) And well presented 🙌
As always, really interesting and informative. Thank you!
Also, great editing, filming and really like your lighting...
Great video essay, Stu! Well articulated and very informative. Thank you! Be well and hope you get some rest soon. 🙂🙏
Love the informative discussion! Keep them coming.
These videos may not be popular but I tell you they are gems for those of us very interested in this material. Even If I had no interest in pianos I could say I would still be interested from a business cultural pov.
Bechstein really changed the manufacturing with new technologies, having a better resolution and energy in the bridges and better key response in the last 16 years. However, the Bechstein has much more Volume and can sound more aggressive especially in Living rooms (but it is not as aggressive as the Yamaha ones). When some think the Bösendorfer sounds mellow, I have to admit the clear upper tones contradict this. Simply the mids are less emphasized. Playing with others the Bechstein sound clean and can get through without being dominant and covering the other voices and instruments.
Super! Great video - as always from your side. Now you’ve built up such a hugh portion of confidence in many of us - that even the slightest hint in any direction should bother the companys. I know that’s not your purpose.
You covered everything except the one thing I was looking for in this video, which is a comparison of the sound of both pianos.
This video was intended to be more of a discussion/overview of the differences between the two companies and their musical offerings. However, we will do our best to tackle a demonstrative comparison between some of these piano giants' models in the near future! :)
Very nice comparison! I would love you to compare the NV5 and Ca99 side by side, since they seem so simillar, but there is such a price gap! Keep up the great contend, I watch all of your videos!
Fantastic video, very informative and well presented. I do believe that these are both fantastic brands and both would be a pleasure to listen to. I for one love that this kind of passion, dedication and craftsmanship exist and long may all such brands continue making such fine instruments!
Thank you so much! We appreciate that immensely. :)
I certainly agree with your sentiments! These are both incredible piano manufacturers that are making some of the finest instruments in the world. Given the immense passion for music and piano playing that is out there, I don't foresee these manufacturers stopping anytime soon.
This is super informative. I remember a sales associate once told me that the Schimmel piano I was thinking of buying was actually now a Chinese made piano and it seems as it turns out, just because a Chinese company buys it doesn't mean it changes its made in Germany craftsmanship. Maybe that sales guy didn't know any better or he was just trying to make the sale to me to sell me something else. Anyway, I am learning so much from watching you. Thank you! Also I didn't know C. Bechstein was on this level. We always hear about Steinway and Bosendorfer but not so much of C. Bechstein. You play super great!
Thank you for such a great video.
You're very welcome! It's our pleasure! :)
This was so interesting. Just the right mix of really relevant information, analysts and comment. Can you do one with more playing comparison abs maybe give examples of what you mean when you say the Bosendorfer has a different bass sound to the C Bechstein and the other points you mentioned. Do you think the fact that 80% of the Bosendorfer is made from premium spruce - not just the sound board - makes any appreciable difference?
I appreciate this comparison, though it sounds like it was already based on very outdated information when it was posted in 2021. In recent years Bösendorfer has been among the biggest innovators in the industry. In 2006-2007 they designed the CEUS player piano system entirely in-house. Along with Yamaha's newer Enspire Pro, CEUS is the most accurate player piano system ever made (even more so than Steinway's also excellent Spirio, which doesn't sample key releases). Later, in 2014 and 2015, they designed their new Vienna Concert (VC) series pianos from the ground up using state-of-the-art design techniques. (In the interest of disclosure, I was one of the artists who helped them test both of these innovations.) The VC models, with their seemingly unlimited dynamic range, have been nothing less than a sensation in the marketplace. Now the company can't make them fast enough and has a couple years' worth of orders for its most popular models.
Thanks for tuning in! There is no question that these two giants of the piano industry have made some incredible contributions to the fine art of piano manufacturing and, accordingly, are amongst the very top piano builders of all-time. :)
Hello Stu,
First of all, I think your piano reviews are the best on TH-cam. Loving every single one of them.
I’m writing you to ask your opinion on this: I’ve recently purchased a Zimmermann S2 in China, and have been planning (or dreaming really) for a future upgrade to a premium piano. Say, if one day I have the budget for an upright from premium brands (e.g., Bösendorfer, C Bechstein, Steingraeber & Söhne,) does it make sense to purchase an upright at that level, or should I go for a grand with the same budget but from a less-renowned brand? An analogy would be an upright from C Bechstein vs a grand from W Hoffmann.
You mentioned in your reviews that the uprights from those premium manufacturers can rival grand pianos in their actions, tone, etc. Just want to ask for your opinion. Thanks!
Is there anywhere I can listen to the old Bechstein? about 50 years ago I heard one made around 1900, and though it was in bad shape and out of tune, it struck me with a particular chamber quality of sound. Very unique.
Thanks.
Thank you for the very educational even academic comparison of two storied piano houses . Trying to learn as much as I can regarding these two brands. Would love to hear first hand an actual piece played side to side to have a better understanding of the way they would sound differently. Thanks again
You're very welcome! Thanks for tuning in! We will do our best to feature more sound comparisons of these two great brands in the future. :)
If I win the Mega Millions, I'll come pick out a Bechstein or Bosendorfer!
In a direct comparison, C.BECHSTEIN wins my and probably not just my opinion. Stu I'm really looking forward to the test or even comparison test of the D282 concert grand piano, in my opinion the best thing you can get for money. Many nice musician greetings from the good old Germany Lower Saxony city of Langenhagen near Hanover.
I neither own nor play a piano. But I truly love music and I Appreciate So Very Much your explanation and playing examples of the different piano brands. I would love for you to do a video ( or series of videos ) where you explained to us novices what you mean by the terms that you use in describing the various way that differing piano brands sound. I would also love to hear you address how piano construction affects the way they sound; such as the straight ( parallel ) stringed models being produced in Belgium, and the more traditional pianos which have string sections that are "layered" diagonally over other sections. Thanks SO MUCH !!
Hi there! Thanks so much for tuning! We appreciate your suggestion. I think a video that breaks down the key music and piano terms is an awesome idea and one that would be very helpful for many viewers. Thanks for the suggestion! :)
Mr. Harrison@@MerriamPianos You are most welcome! Your videos are really well crafted, and well-geared to those who love and play the piano. For those of us who love piano, but cannot play, I think we Sense what you are trying to tell us, but simply don't have the knowledge to know exactly what you are saying. Some kind of very basic tutorial is what we are lacking. God bless you, sir !
YES ACOUSTIC PIANO VIDS ARE BBBAAACCCKKK!!!
Hi, do you think millennium 3 upright action is very light? And would a student need heavier action to develop strength?
I am in doubt about buying K series because of this light action.
Thanks
Hey Reny, I have a reasonably new K series upright.
I wouldn't say the action is light whatsoever... Sure there are heavier actions out there, but in terms of a student aiming to develop good technique I'd say it's certainly weighted 'correctly'.
Also, the action is very even, responsive and well balanced - which is just as important as whether or not it is heavy in my mind (if that make sense)... It makes sure students learn to put chords down evenly through each finger, it will expose weaknesses in your scales if they aren't even etc.. all that good stuff that makes you a better player in the long run.
So the short answer is no, I would not consider the action light at all.
@@alexthompson6529 thanks for your answer, you helped me a lot.
@@RenyPerucchi No worries, get out there and play a few of them! Let me know what you think :)
More education. It doesn’t make me want to own a Bosendorfer, but I was shocked to learn my favorite recorded piano playing on a pop recording (of all things, Steely Dan’s Katy Lied), was in fact a Bosendorfer (model unknown) in ABC Studios in Los Angeles in the mid-1970s. Contributing to that no doubt were the top tier session players and recording engineer Roger Nichols Steely Dan was a magnet for. I never tire of it.
There is an old adage that goes "tone is in the fingers". So, to that point, there is certainly some weight to the notion of how important the player (and the engineers) is in the overall equation. With that said, that is why it is important to find a piano that connects with you and your playing style. Having an instrument that truly resonates with you and that you are able to extra all of the desired musical nuances from can take some time to find, but when you know, you know. :)
Great info and video thankyou. I feel the Bechstein has a sound like a corss between a grand and an upright whihc makes it better for jazz and blues and folk or pop etc, Whereas the Bosendorfer is cleaner , more pure and so best suited to classical music
You're welcome! Thanks for tuning in! It comes down to tastes of course, but I would say that both of these pianos are incredible versatile and capable of any style of music. :)
I like them both🎹🎶
I am a beginner pianist, ... but I can tell you that these pianos make me dream.
Schulze and Thomma threw out some of the baby with the bathwater in their new designs.The old E270 model had a special sweetness that Shostakovich, Bolet, Schnabel all loved. The new grands are louder, yes, but that's not always the best thing. Much as i love the Bechsteins, i now lean more towards Steingraeber.
Have you ever done a video of the C Bechstein Concert Series vs Bechstein Academy Series? Is there a tone difference? An action difference?
While we have tackled these two lines separately in videos, we have never done a comparison video between two comparably sized models (e.g. A190 and A192). There is a very big difference in terms of the tonal profile. The Academy series instruments have a warmer voice compared to the Concert series instruments, which have a bright concert voicing. Both are exceptionally beautiful, but offer very different musical flavours. The Academy series offers the "Silver Line Action", while the Concert series offers the "Gold Line Action". Naturally, the "Gold Line Action" receives a higher level and more refined voicing and regulation. Right out of the box, the Concert series instruments are musically fit for the highest levels of performance and concert stages. :)
The most positive thing I can attribute to Bosendorfer is that they made Cecil Taylor a Bosendorfer Artist.
Cecil Taylor was an incredibly gifted player and musician. :)
It seems you are biased towards beckstein but if you were to play the 280 VC believe me it is the best piano in the world. I also have a fazioli 278 that I'm trading for the bosendorfer 280 VC. No longer is it a week piano
@@luisangelmedinaguzman8909 Don’t worry Luis, it was a long time before I was able to afford such pianos. Keep playing remember the piano doesn’t make the music come alive .The good musician makes the piano sound better than it should. And I am sure you are doing a good job at that!
Sounds good! Definitely like the Bechstein more.😁
The C. Bechstein grands are absolutely stunning! Some of the most expressive instruments on the planet in my opinion. :)
Happy with 2000 dollar digital woodrn key yamaha p 515 with bosendorfur deep base muddy earthly sound and kawai ES 8 dugiral accoustic for easy light touch mellow siunds also cost $2000 aust dollars. Both the best
Congrats on having two very excellent digital pianos! It is always nice to have different tools for different musical jobs. :)
Well I have a virtual C Bechstein Pianoteq voice, but so far no Bosendorfer as yet from Pianoteq. I think I'll go play my C Bechstein and enter the land of make believe.
Given my living situation I have no choice but to stick with a digital piano. However, I find that a stringed instrument is a much better playing experience. After watching this video have you been converted to the acoustic side? :-)
@@KeepingOnTheWatch No, have two Chickering Grands. A couple of decades ago, I had permission to practice on Don Ho's Steinway Model B on the stage of the Polynesian Palace Showroom in Waikiki. That said, I love Pianoteq. As an aside, I decided to cancel my order for the Kawai es920 in favor of a Yamaha DGX-670 which is also on back order, but half the price of the Kawai. I never was convinced of the the es920's tonal quality. I think someone else here said that they have an ex920 but only use it as a driver for Pianoteq voices. The DGX packs a lot of bang for the buck and I like the way it sounds.
@@JoeLinux2000 wait there's a Yamaha DGX-670?🎹🎶
Stu, you neglected to mention a longtime rival of Bechstein - Bluthner. Bechstein, Bluthner and Bosendorfer were the "Three B's" (along with Hamburg Steinway) that dominated the German piano industry from the late 1800s onward.
Hi! Brent here! For sure! Bluthner is definitely worthy of being in the conversation of course! :)
I think that here in Europe, Bosenderfer is more commonly compared with Steinway. Also people here don’t consider Steinway as an ‘American’ pianos as they are manufactured in Germany
That is a very good point. While most North American players associate New York-made Steinways with the brand name, I imagine it is more common for European players to associate Hamburg-made Steinways with the name.
For a video entitled 'Bösendorfer vs C. Bechstein Pianos Comparison', I was expecting to hear more than about 10 seconds of the pianos being played.
While some of our videos are focused on demonstrations, other videos are more discussion based that deal with the things one should consider when shopping for certain types of instruments.
Wow
Thanks for tuning in! :)
Some people consider Bluthner worthy of being compared to the 2 discussed here.
The late Jorge Bolet had exclusivity contract with C. Bechstain
#TeamBösendorfer
No Playing?
Didn’t know C. Bechstein was considered “King of Pianos”.
That's what the crown in the company's logo is for! ;)
In all seriousness though, C. Bechstein pianos are instruments that are certainly fit for royalty and were popular amongst royals in a number of countries.
@@MerriamPianos Reminds me of the Rolex crown hah! I think Bechsteins are the BMW of Pianos. The Steinway Germanic sound philosophy with Fazioli’s soundboard material.
Anorher interesting video. Thank You! A new trend on YT to put logos? This can cause burn-in on OLED TVs if warched for longer time. Please consider logo less videos in the future. Thanks!
Bösendorfer has a much longer overall production time than C. Bechstein as Bösendorfer takes much longer to air dry their soundboards whereas C. Bechstein uses a kiln.
Hi Steve! There are certainly a few differences in terms of their manufacturing processes. However, nevertheless, these are two giants of the industry that make remarkable pianos. :)
Of course, Bösendörfer likes to compare himself with Bechstein. Steinway is only a step, but at the same time light years away. 99% of pianists prefer Steinway... - as do I.
I wouldn't want to trade our Steinway O (Hamburg). Not even against Fazioli, which are still ahead of Bösendörfer and Bechstein.
It all comes down to musical preference - especially when it comes to pianos at the upper echelon. All of the pianos you have listed are incredible instruments, but they all offer something a bit different musically. The most important thing is to find a sound and touch that inspires you, which it sounds like you have. :)
@@MerriamPianos That's true!
There is no way in hell that 99% prefer Steinway. And it would be even less if Steinway were not such bullies of artists, venues and vendors. Quite fitting that they are owned by a hedge fund, I will never support them
Bösendorfer considers Bechstein to be its direct competitor because they are both old, European brands. Blüthner is an equally fierce competitor from their point of view.
And just so you know, Steinway considers Bösendorfer to be one of its main competitors...
Steinway has a closed-in system. It forces artists to become "Steinway artists" or it doesn't serve them with the best piano selections for concerts. On the other hand, doesn't allow its artists to publicly play on - or praise - other brands (some artists got banned from Steinway pianos for these reasons). As it forces its artists to use only Steinway, all music halls and other performing spaces need to have Steinway pianos. Because these places have Steinway pianos, schools teach on them and aspiring classical pianists buy it for home, so they can practice on what they'll need to use.
So concert pianists don't choose Steinway as much as are forced to chose it. I am 100% sure, that most of the Steinway Artists would prefer to have free choice among any piano brand so they can select specific instruments fitting their precise ideas for each performance.
Also, Bösendorfer has its VC (Vienna Concert) line, which has the same projective power as the Steinways, so there goes the main S- design advantage...
@@ashy969 Helplessly exposed artists, mean Steinway, which does not build the best pianos at all, but can only pretend through coercion. Understand. Believe that all right, but the sound of the other brands will not be better ...
Too bad that they don't come at 40in like my Lesage...
One cannot take this man's references with too much merit when it takes him until 06:52 to mention Yamaha; even then it is because of their overtaking of a major German manufacturer. It is as though Yamaha were just another conglomerate. Yamaha has been dominating the North American piano market with superior pianos since the 1970s. They're not a Johnny-Come-Lately as this guy would have you imagine. There is so much misinformation here that I can only assume that he has a hidden motive.
Point me to a pre-1960 Yamaha, all rebuilt and placed back onto the concert stage and we can talk. But we both know it won't happen, as Yamaha comes out with a new model aver 7 years, minimum. Why play an old 1958 concert grand when this new CFX is available? Not so in the case of old Bechsteins and Bosenorfers. See what SAP is doing in Poland.
You should listen more carefully. This is a comparison between Bechstein and Bosendorfer pianos, not a discussion of the world's leading piano makers. It says so in the title and is why makers such as Steinway, Bluthner, Kawaii and others aren't discussed. The only reason Yamaha is mentioned is because it took over Bosendofer a dozen years ago.
why don'r you provide sound examples and comparisons rather than just talk ?!?
Jazz music is not exactly de best way to appreciate the quality of a piano. Turn to classical music...