What Happened to Steinway?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2024
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Welcome to LivingPianos.com, I’m Robert Estrin. Today, I’m going to talk about Steinway. What happened to Steinway? I’m going to give you 20 true or false statements, so get your pencil and paper ready! But first, I’m going to give a brief history of this venerable piano company. Of course, you all know Steinway, but I’m going to tell you some things you maybe don’t know about the company.
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A Steinway rep recently told me over 50% of Steinway grands just sit as ornaments in living rooms and are never or very rarely actually played.
Most musicians can't afford new Steinways. So, many people with means buy them and they don't necessarily play on a high level. That's one reason Spirio player systems are so popular!
💔💔💔
@@LivingPianosVideos, I will never understand why ppl buy pianos and don’t know how to play the instrument.
@@LivingPianosVideos Robert, let me tell you about the wild world of HiFi. Have you ever glimpsed the jaw-dropping prices of those top-tier speakers, cables, amps, and DACs? Picture this: I once had a seller reveal that some ultra-rich individuals drop half a million on a system, treating it more like a luxurious living room ornament than a sound system. It's a whole different league where sound takes a backseat to opulence.
@@kaleimaile Same happens with hi end audio. The most expensive amps, speakers are sold to people who don't know what to do with so much money. They buy 500k worth of audio componenta that look incredibly luxurious, for display.
Retired public school teacher here. I bought a new Steinway B thirty years ago. It’s a matter of priorities.
School teachers aren't as underpaid as their union would have us believe. Good wages for a 180 day contract.
@@88KeysIdaho schoolteachers are the MOST underpaid profession in America.
@@raymondgood6555 I wish I could make what they do for all the time off they have.
"A STEINWAY is so expensive that you can't afford it! That is........................... TRUE!"
No. There are affordable second hand examples but of course the smaller ones.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤❤😊
While true, Steinway concert grands rise in value.
@@christianweatherbroadcasti3491 Amen!
fairy tales
I own a 1894 upright model, old and good history. The sound is so beautiful that my family cherish it daily❤❤
I’ve been servicing Steinway since the middle of the infamous ‘teflon era’ through the current ‘plastic’ finish era. They have suffered from various ups and downs, production issues, and other frustrations. I do the service for Bruce Hornsby and he has three Ds in his studio which span the 80s up to the 2020s and all have their virtues and vices. Overall I think that if your Steinway is maintained and voiced properly, the tonal qualities and response cannot be beat by other instruments…..they can sometimes be as good, but never better. The reason I think that is that the piano as we currently know it has reached it’s final evolution in tone and touch, much like a vintage violin has reached the penultimate point in quality. All future attempts will be ‘how to make it less expensive yet be as good’. The blending of electronics with the instrument, while very cool, one wonders how the electrics will last given changes in computer hardware and software. All in all, it’s hard to laud enough the wonderful era between the early 1900s to the late 40s when Steinway still had the old world wood workers and skills thereof that seemingly have gone away or replaced by computer controlled machinery. I still am their greatest supporter.
Not just the fabulous old woodworkers, they also had the incredible soundboard Sitka Spruce, carefully aging till it was right to use. It turned into glider parts in WWII. They get the best Sitka Spruce they can, but it is harder and harder.
What’s your take on NY vs Hamburg?
I have a completely restored 1914 Smith & Barnes player. It's beautiful and has been in my family for over 100 years. My icon picture is the piano. I'm fortunate enough to own hundreds of rare and amazing piano rolls that span decades of time to include the likes of Lee Sims, Zez Confrey, and others. They are posted on my own YT channel.
There are many of us who very much appreciate a beautiful Steinway, but there are millions of other amazing pianos in the world, and if you have an old family heirloom piano that you treasure with its nicks and dings, it's priceless to you. To me, that's where the true value of pianos is found.
I was able to get all of these points right, some of which were just plain depressing. It makes me glad that the maker of my piano, Mason & Hamlin, doesn’t have these egregious marketing schemes and monopolistic strangleholds on concert artists. I could get a decal tomorrow without fear of being sued. I could even use whatever parts I wanted in a rebuild without fear of it being called a “Masonwas & Hasbeen” or something equally diminutive as “Steinwas”. The newer BB and CC models I’ve played (and some top-tier rebuilds) have outperformed the new Steinways I’ve played and at a fraction of the cost!
Even used Mason & Hamlins we sell are phenomenal pianos and cost substantially less than used Steinways!
What? How is it Steinway’s fault that no other piano manufacturer wants to make their pianos widely available for concerts?
I once owned an old Mason & Hamlin upright and although it could not rival their grand piano version, it did sound 'better' than another old upright that I played years ago, a YAMAH U3. I regretted that I gave it up when I bought a Kawai grand for my daughter; but I had no room - but at least I half-donated it to a local Catholic diocese retreat center. My grand children's school has a bean-up looking Mason & Hamlin in their auditorium and that thing sound GREAT ! when played by a fantastic piano teacher during their concert. I am tempted to splurge on a rebuilt old, pre-bankrupt Mason & Hamlin, after reading your comment. Thanks.
If Steinwas is so great, how come they have to pay 1300 concert pianists for exclusivity??? Hm...
@@austinc1386 It's a form of sponsorship for their brand, just the way as drummers get endorsements to only use certain cymbals/drums/sticks/heads etc. It's smart business by them, really. Although one could argue that this stifles certain concert halls who will never get x/y/z because they don't have a Steinway.
Thanks to Robert for this interesting article. Whilst I have always held Steinway pianos in VERY high esteem, I always tended to hold Bösendorfer close to my heart. After many years of selling many varieties of pianos, (including Steinway), in our family business and subsequently other businesses, I then went on to perform on stage for a living, so I do believe I have played the best. Yes, Steinway are beautifully built and have a magnificent keyboard/action response, but to me, they sound too "brilliant", perhaps bordering on sharp. Perhaps I have had the privilege of playing too many new Steinway`s that hadn`t "settled" into themselves. Everyone has a way of appreciating and interrupting sound. I will always admire Steinway pianos, but will always favor the warmth of a Bösendorfer.
I didn't know any of the answers, but I 100% agree with Steinway about their decals. The Steinway name on a piano REALLY MEANS SOMETHING! It always has, and I hope it always will.
Bought one during COVID 2021. Enormous discount, they'll never do that again.
I'd tinkered with piano through the years but haven't had a lesson since I was 10.
I practice once week since I got it, but I play with it all week long. Its gorgeous sound is addictive, even when I was just learning.
I'm pretty decent now. Novice level for sure.
I also got mine at a tremendous discount, though it will be a long time before it is properly restored. An 1887 rosewood Steinway C! Apparently it spent at least 60 years, and probably 100, at a local fraternity. They kept it up as things went wrong, with modern but good quality repairs. I've bought it the replica parts to take it back to the 19th century. 1887 is one year after Steinway redesigned it, and one could say it is the very earliest part of Steinway's golden age.
I love both of my Steinway’s! One I bought from you! Bob, you have always supported myself and piano players ! Your the best ,Andrew
Glad to hear your are enjoying your Steinway!
Absolutely amazing Q&A! Thank you so much for putting this together for us Robert. I love your videos and the passion. Warmest greetings from Switzerland!
I own a Model L, made in the 1920's -- I wouldn't trade it for any other piano on the face of the earth. It has a unique, special sound that I have never found in any other piano, and I cherish it.
I have a 1927 Model L. I feel the same way
Feel the same! Have a 1945 Steinway M, with such a warm and beautiful sound that I won't trade nor sell ever. I'm open minded though. I go play all the other brands once in awhile.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊
I share your feeling. But I believe size still matters, at least in certain music pieces. I bet that a very well rebuilt pre-1930 Model B will sound even more enchanting and overwhelming than a model M or L, even model A/A3.
@@christianweatherbroadcasti3491 I understand and very much agree with your above comment. But I see no context to what was being discussed or shared here. A great piano can be an instrument of good and beauty, which God ordains; while an expensive and good piano can be owned as an egotistic piece of useless possession. People do need salvation but I also believe that God have generously given people the many gifts that He also created. Among them is 'good' music , and great musical instruments are another evidence that these things can only come from a righteous but also loving and benevolent God. It reflects God's glory and points to a great hope. Music helps to comfort people's hearts and minds when in distress or difficulty, that's for sure. A Steinway or Mason & Hamlin represents the pinnacle of human creation, while music and the whole nature reflect God. I am grateful for both.
I found this discussion fascinating. My mother and maternal grandmother both played piano but never owned a Steinway. In fact my mom preferred to play organs yet had no love of Hammond organs, my personal fave. I took up guitar at 11 and played semi-pro for decades. I regret not learning to play piano and at 72 I doubt I ever will. Yet I love solo piano works and envy anyone that has decent piano abilities.... and the sound of a well-played Steinway will always captivate me. Few things in musical life are better!!
Steinway won't let Grotrian-Steinweg (a German company founded by one of Henry's relatives) import their pianos into the US under their full name - the US pianos say only 'Grotrian' on the fallboard. But I fooled them and bought my piano in Germany, then imported it myself.
A wonderful piano, the Grotrian. One day long ago I visited a huge piano store in Toronto, and in one room they had dozens of different good quality pianos. I checked them all out, and the bass of the Grotrian was was very best.
I own an upright 1924 Gotrian Steinweg, a family heirloom, and it sounds so good and unique, such a round sound but with personality. I knew that there was a relation to Steinway but never knew the story, thank you, cheers from Brazil 🇧🇷
how did you do that? that must have cost you thousands to import
@@bodigames Back in 2001, it cost me about $3000US for air freight, insurance, and a box. The dollar was quite strong at the time, so even with the shipping, we saved quite a bit over buying in the US (plus we got a Grotrian-Steinweg instead of a Grotrian).
I can't believe how incredibly ugly the $2.5M Steinway is. It looks like a Frankenstein assembly of some totally unrelated parts.
I thought same about certain drum kits like Neil Peart's R30 kit
For $2.5 million you get cuckoo clock legs? 🤣
True.
I watched a video of the 'creation' of 'The London' edition. Steinway seems to be forgetting that they have already perfected the piano. An instrument to create the art, which is the music. Nobody goes to a recital to see a Steinway play. Corporate delusions seem to be afoot. This ' The London' edition; listening to the two 'artists' describe their creative process made me a little peeved. I thought, what a colossal waste of time, money and effort. When the flood comes, I swear these two guys are not getting on the boat.
What matters is how good it sounds.
My favorite brand is NOT Steinway but a Pleyel from France. I got the chance to play one at one of the few high-end piano stores in Manhattan. Love them -- the sound to me is superior to Steinway. The feel of playing it fantastic. Unfortunately there aren't many made and they are expensive.
Sadly, Pleyel stopped producing pianos in 2013. They were beautiful instruments!
@@LivingPianosVideosyou're correct. But they were bought by Algam in 2017 and have resumed production since
Did Pleyel make pianos that sounded like Chopin's Pleyel? His was so unique sounding.
I've also met Schimmels that give Steinway a run for their money. At a certain quality level, it becomes senseless to say this one or that one is "better."
As an aside, it was Pleyel that Wanda Landowska turned to when no one else anywhere was making harpsichords. She had Pleyel custom create a harpsichord facsimile. With the keyboard cover down, it was indistinguishable from a grand piano.
The "not selling brand decals" thing is their right since they own their brand mark, but unless they can (other than by appeal to snobbery) keep un-refinished Steinways from being repaired by third parties while keeping the old decal, it's kind of hypocritical. There's a whole issue out there -- "right to repair" -- which I wonder if it might impinge on this eventually. I don't have to take my Cadillac to GM dealers to be repaired in order to sell it later as a Cadillac.
I don’t think there’s any reason you couldn’t refinish a Steinway and keep the original decal on there. At least in principle. But then again, with all the Steinways out there not being played or being played by Spirio, refinishing shouldn’t be much of an issue.
There’s plenty of aftermarket decals for your Steinways fall board, soundboard and cabinet side. If we repair and refurbished properly, no reason it should not retain the Steinway name.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊
Thanks, Robert. That’s a wonderful video and update.
Thank you for mentioning Chickering. The true great of American piano manufacturing.
I also love my Baldwins!!
You are absolutely right. My mother had a Chickering -- a delightful piano to play and to listen to.
got a Chicering from the 1920's, six and one half feet gorgeous.
Mine’s a late 60s model. Around 5 feet. It’s an okay instrument but hasn’t been kept up.
Mine is a 9 foot Model 141 from 1919-1920. Completely rebuilt with WNG action. She is a dream.
You are very right about the distinctive Steinway sound. It is a tone of which I am not at all fond. Steinway pianos from different eras have different sounds, too. Personally I will stay with my 1903 Gerard Heinzman "Grand In Upright Form", as the Patent calls it. Bought new by my paternal grandfather, the sound is incomparable.
My mom's 1908 Steinway Model A--she'd inherited it from her aunt--was left to me to deal with when mom died. I gifted it to the Peabody Institute, where her aunt had played and taught. Transport wasn't cheap, but it seemed appropriate. I hope some up-and-coming talent is making the best of it.
My Model D gets about 6 hours a day. It’s the greatest instrument I’ve ever owned, and that includes flutes and saxophones. I cannot express in words how great an instrument is the Steinway New York Model D. I had hit a brick wall in technique on my Boston grand, and no matter how much time I spent working on those things, I could not get any further. Then I bought the Model D… Whooaaa! I cut through those technical problems like butter. The dynamics are incredible - the smoothness at pianissimo is magical. In my opinion, Steinway makes the best pianos in the world, and by a huge margin.
That is interesting that you found a limitation with the Boston piano! 😲
I assumed quality pianists were basically supposed to be able to play on anything? Perhaps you could share more on how Boston held you back?
@@AllThisOverASliceOfGabagool
I’m a different kind of pianist. I was a concert artist on saxophone and flute, getting a couple college degrees in musical performance, and going on to play in symphonies, pit orchestras, and all kinds of chamber music for years. Then I went into directing, which led to MIDI, which led to recording, all while still arranging and creating performances in MIDI. I retired from music when I was 65, and bought a Boston 6’ grand, and I began practicing 3 to 6 hours a day, every day, for the next several years. I was a treble clef reader. Bass clef I could read, but I didn’t have the hand/eye coordination thing where I could glance at it and it just comes out. That’s what I expected of my hands, and it took a lot of work to make it happen, but there were some anomalies - a very hard, bright sound, for one - which I could not change. There were also overtone changes from note to note that destroyed even the best attempts at a tranquil, smooth legato line at pianissimo dynamics. Plus, there were a lot of other things - death by a thousand paper cuts, rather than any one huge slash. Or in this case, maybe a few dozen. The Steinway fixed most of that instantly, but brought its own set of problems. The biggest one is that it takes a mature technique to reach all the dynamics of a Model D. My wrists and ankles began to hurt. I had to hone my technique so that the transfer of force went clear back to my shoulders and spine, and right out to the fingers, which made circular movements from the wrist and elbows until even heavy playing didn’t hurt my wrists at all. Once I got all the little “paper cuts” from the Boston fixed with the Model D, it was really pretty easy to develop my left hand technique to match my right hand. I’m now able to approach much more difficult works than I could before, not to mention play my existing repertoire with ease and [for me] great expression. I’m not and never will be the kind of great pianist who can do anything on any piano. I need all the help I can get, and the Model D gives me that. In the end, it serves as meditation for me, and each piece I learn connects me more with the wonderful minds who wrote them all. Bach, for me, is like going to church and being humbled before the great spirit. For me, this is nirvana. This is the way I enjoy spending my “retirement” years: learning the concert rep that other pianists learned in their teens and 20s. I hope that explains my situation for you.
@@shooshieroberts3913 That was a superb explanation and I thank you for sharing your experience. I had a trial lesson on a Boston and I recall it being very harsh on the ears, but I assumed some of that was just the room, but maybe it isn't!
I see the piano in a similar way although I'm very much at the start of my journey. Every day starts with listening to the Goldberg Variations. Hopefully one day I can go from listening to Joanna MacGregor to playing the variations myself! 🙂
Steinway D is the greatest invention of mankind in the history of the world
I was trained classically on a Steinway, for 17 years! There is nothing like a Steinway! My husband wanted to purchase a new grand piano for me and because the cost was prohibitive so we purchased a brand new L190 Hidden Beauty Estonia about 5 years ago because the action (and it's hand made with Renner Hammers) was similar to the action on the Steinway. I do love it! However if I ever have the financial opportunity I would love to own and play daily on a Steinway, the Black Diamond for Lang Lang is incredibly stunning! This was great and fun information! Thank you for all your videos!
Estonias are really fine, though the tone seems more European than NY Steinways.
The first time I played a Steinway D I thought I had gone to heaven. Non pianists would never understand.
I have a 1926 Steinway OR with a working Aeolian Duo-Art reproducing player action. It’s interesting that Steinway originally fought tooth and nail to stay out of the Player market. In the mid 1920’s 80% of all pianos produced in the US were players.
The reason my piano exists is Steinway relented to Aeolian under the condition Aeolian’s Weber brand cease sponsoring Paderewski who would switch to Steinway Aeolian was also required to buy a specified number of Steinways regardless if they needed them or not. That agreement led to Aeolian’s bankruptcy around 1929.
Merci Robert. Interesting information.
Fun and interesting video as always.
Jesus is the only way. We have all sinned and deserve Hell. Sins that may seem small in our eyes are big in God's and are worthy of Hell, such as lying lusting and stealing. But if we repent and trust only in Jesus, he is faithful and will save us from Hell and give us eternal life in Heaven. Trust in Jesus!
John 3:16
Romans 6:23❤😊
@@christianweatherbroadcasti3491 LOL Steinway might be playing hard ball marketing, but do they really deserve to go to hell?
When I was shopping for a grand, I simply couldn’t afford a Steinway. I eventually found a 6-ft Sohmer parlor grand from 1928 that sounds better than many of the Steinways I tried out. It cost a fraction of the Steinway, mainly because the cabinet was pretty beat up. But I wasn’t looking for a piece of furniture; I wanted a good instrument.
I've once tried a full size upright Sohmer from the 20s. The sound is glorious. Tons of power and cut too, amazing for old school blues and country. I tell myself I'll by one of those when I get a house of my own.
i got the "More than 90% of concert pianists play Steinways" right but was ruled wrong because the "correct" answer is 97%. BOTH answers are correct. You just cost me my 4.3 GPA. I am incensed.
I admit - it was a trick question!
@@LivingPianosVideos Sneaky! ☺️
GPAs should only go to 4. Anything higher is meant to make you feel good, lol
@@LivingPianosVideos Haha, you could just admit that the OP is correct.
My mother has an upright. My first musical instrument ever. It’s old and out of tune but someday I’ll make it shine.
Super helpful information, thx.
Interestingly for me, I grew up in NYC and Steinway’s presence was seemingly everywhere I went, from the showroom on W 57th St in Manhattan, to the factory building just over the East River or a main street named after it in the borough of Queens where I’d often visit family.
I have a 7 foot Bechstein Love it
Good episode, Robert. I got most but not all of the answers as I’m currently reading the book about the making of Model D K0862. As a recent new owner of a Steinway M, I’m appreciative of all the info on your channel about pianos - particularly the remodels. Ours is a 1926 mahogany / nickel version. The tonal depth is so much nicer than the Yamaha C5 we traded in for this one.
What's the title of the book and where can I find it?
It called Piano by James Barron
I own a 1929 M. You are so right.
@@JayMSinger Delicious sound, eh? I can't keep my fingers off mine. There was nothing wrong with the sound of the Yamaha but I just didn't love it anymore. It was monolithic - shallow. Then we met this 1926 Steinway M in the store and I only needed to play one chord and we fell in love. The net result now is that I play every day for at least an hour and with the Yamaha, it was maybe twice a week. Something about that "golden era" sound board - it's just so rich and my ears love it. Plus, the piano feels nice - the ivory keys vs plastic. And it looks beautiful...the mahogany case doesn't show dust like the black glossy Yamaha. And...maybe I'll be the first to say this, but the smell of it! It has an old piano smell. It's not mildewy, just smells like leather and wool and varnish. I immediately bonded with that smell. This will probably be our forever piano as I can't see any way it could be better.
Hoping to tryout a 1920s Steinway oneday. I did tryout a 60s Model S as well as a still new Mason & Hamlin Model CC a month ago, and a new Hamburg Steinway Model B several months ago🎹🎶
Great video !! Thank you for posting !!
I’m wondering if you will do a video on faziolli pianos 🤔
Here is what I have so far: livingpianos.com/pianos/fazioli-concert-grand/ & livingpianos.com/pianos/fazioli-semi-concert-grand/ & livingpianos.com/pianos/fazioli-grand-piano/
Robert, this was great fun! Like you, I have a vintage Model S (1939). Four of your answers surprised me: No longer making the Accelerated Action (I had no idea); Rebuilds are performed in Iowa (I thought they were all done in Astoria, NY); Spirio Record-Capable is an additional $19k = +$48k (Yipes! is all I can say) and; 97% of Concert Artists play Steinway (I wasn't aware that Steinway has virtually monopolized that segment, but your thorough explanation of the current realities of the concert circuit makes complete sense). Looks like you had a good time presenting this one, particularly the impish look on your face with those 'trick questions'. Thanks again, Robert!
Oh my!!...a fascinating piece so enthusiastically presented...I did not DARE answere the Questions though!...thank you, Mr E...dgp/uk
Thank you for your valuable insights
I really enjoyed this video, thanks.
Not too long ago, I wandered through a Steinway store. I've played piano since I was a kid, but haven't played many pianos. I have a 1908 Emerson upright and I love it. The touch, the tone, etc. Just playing around with the Steinways, the first one that I thought, "this is as good as my piano" was $125,000. -- I paid $400 for my Emerson to buy it, move it, and tune it. I was not impressed with the Steinways and would likely spring for a Mason & Hamlin if I were to buy new.
As for all concert artists having to play Steinways, what about those who tour and bring their own piano? For example Angela Hewitt whose Fazioli was dropped by a mover, and who has a Yamaha at home? Or Elton John who exclusively plays a Yamaha? Or the artists who have a sponsorship deal with Kawai? While most concert halls have a Steinway this isn’t always the case.
There are a select few in the position to take their pianos with them. Herbie Hancock also travels with his Fazioli concert grand!
Do any former "Baldwin Artists" still travel with theirs?
My father bought a grand piano a while ago. It was made by "Mangeot et Freres". It was also marked "Systeme Steinway". Does anyone have any information on this ? I forgot to add that it also has New York on it.
The ‘best’ piano is the one you like playing. I learnt to play from the age of 8 on a hand-me-down Ronisch upright which had, as I later discovered, a lighter touch than other pianos I’ve had the opportunity to play. I now, for financial reasons, have a digital Kawai which I find satisfactory but I yearn for the touch of the old Ronisch. As the old saying goes, Horses for Courses. Cheers! 😊
Thank you for the learning.
Wow this was informative. Thank you.
My model M was dropped by “professional movers” when I bought it, then a few years later, went through a hurricane that has left it in a rather sad state. Steinway quoted me a 6 fig replacement cost because walnut so insurance laughed and declined to cover it. I still play it in its sad state. Currently feeding it a diet of Chopin, Scriabin, and Pancrace-Royer. Still sings, but only in minor keys.
We take trade-ins, even pianos in poor condition! You’re welcome to check out pianos for yourself: livingpianos.com/pianos/
@@LivingPianosVideos a broken Steinway is better than no Steinway.
Hello and thanks for a great video! I loved all the interesting facts and some fun “trick” questions too. I have a Young Chang PG-175 - 5ft 9inch - Pramberger series- I must have played every piano in the store from all prices but kept coming back to this one. It just sounded the best of them all. We sprang for the ‘Piano Disk’ up grade with lots of disks and ( now out dated ‘floppy disks”) but we still love the piano. We were impressed by the salesperson who said the soundboard is actually the same design as a Steinway soundboard- either way we love sound but wondered if that is true. Can you verify if this is true? We also had the background light for our PianoDisk player go out. So now we have to use a flashlight to see the face of our PianoDisk. Any thoughts or help to repair that? The tech that was sent out to try to fix it said he couldn’t and we’re stuck with no back light. We did buy the piano in 2000 and it’s still beautiful ebony. Thanks again for a enlightning video and history of the famous Steinway legacy.
Ron Foos
My dentist's office was in the Steinway building in NYC. I used to look through the show room if I was early. Just beautiful to look at, especially the old ones.
Fabulous information as usual. My Steinway is a mechanical, acoustic, and gorgeous miracle. Go ahead and buy one. It only hurts for a moment and gives pleasures for many lifetimes.
This was an interesting quiz! I didn’t do that well but I learned a lot! I’m not surprised the decal is illegal but I had no idea the spirit recording was so darn expensive…
I have a Grotrian Steinweg from 1936, not the American, but the German, still a Steinway (Steinweg in German), it's a delight.
They were sued by Steinway in the 1970s and prevented from using the Steineg name. They have been known since then as simply, “Grotrian”.
@@LivingPianosVideos I used to have an old Radio Symphonic hornist to come and tune my piano, he started doing that when he retired, he told me Grotrian & Steinweg held a lot of hammer tech patents in the old days, going back to the 1850s? To my recollection Steinweg moved to New York in the 1890s. Thanks for the info, I see my piano is going for alot more than what I or my mother payed for it in the 1990s. :)
“Steinway endorse, with their name and logo, a Virtual Digital Piano” ….. TRUE. I could never afford a real one but their Hamburg Model D, using Pianoteq, is wonderful for those on a limited budget (and limited house room). I was really surprised to see the Steinway logo when it was released.
I try to play as many pianos as I can get a hand on, and it all comes down to individual quality of the regulation of the action. In my view and experience you can get a small upright with better repetition, better regulated, more precisely regulated, than a grand.
OK I have only played a Fazioli once, but I think that was far above normal goodness.
The Shigura Kawai grand, 6 foot, was the best one time I was allowed to play all the pianos at a CPH Steinway dealer.
If I had more money I would buy a now Estonia.
I play at the Union League in Philadelphia occasionally and they have two of the Boston pianos, the action is perfect and they sound amazing for their size, I can definitely see, feel and hear the Steinway influence
Having toured all over the world and played pianos in theaters, auditoriums, and showrooms thousands of times, I was routinely disappointed by the Steinways that I played.
I'm not a fan; if I wanted to buy a new grand today, it wouldn't be a Steinway--more likely, it would be a Bosendorfer or a Yamaha.
This is a personal choice, but I don't like the Steinway action; I much prefer Yamaha's--a little lighter, a more pleasant experience for me.
On the flip side though, I've played overhauled pianos that were dreams; there was an old 7' Baldwin in a studio in Nashville, that had been beaten to death for years by studio musicians day after day. The leading piano technician in Nashville in those days, James Arledge, was hired to restore it; he built a new soundboard, replaced hammers, strings, replaced old ivory keys with plastic--in essence, he did everything but refinish the box, which didn't matter in a recording studio anyway. The result was amazing and I loved playing that old piano when he got finished with it.
I bought a brand-new 6-foot Kawai KG-3D in 1982; it still plays as great as it did when I saw it removed from the shipping container outside my apartment 42 years ago. But it's not a Yamaha C7.
My favourite concerthall has a 9 foot Steinway D274 installed ny Ulrich Gerhartz. Also a Bösendorfer and an upright! . Itsa chamber music hall seats just over 200 people perfect acoustic . Near Mt Barker Adelaide SAustralia. Paul Lewis played all the schubert sonatas on the steinway. An upright is handy for practice and the odd modern piece where that sound quality needs to be captured .
Gee, I thought, based on the title, that you would talk about how the quality of their pianos has declined so badly.
There are many opinions about Steinway out there. My purpose is to provide good information and get a discussion going.
@@LivingPianosVideos, what difference between: Steinway and son s,and :Steinway (without /son s/) ?
Not hard to figure out why, check out all of the diversity hires. Sad
@@shanhuawang360 Just Sayin'... Steinway Sons (without knowing their fathers) are known as Steinway Bastards, lol
It used to be that one of the most common piano brands found in recording studios is Baldwin. Just like the most common organ bran found in recording studios is, Hammond, along with Leslie speakers. Been there, done that.
Gene Harris (blues/jazz) was a Baldwin Artist. Good enough for me!
As a Jazz pianist I've played loads of Stein ways but my Yamaha C-7 7'4'' is the best piano I've heard.
...compared to Baldwin?'
Great review of Steinway! It is still an incredible instrument for pianists. Maybe a better title for this story is "What is happening at Steinway"?
When I worked on Holland America Line back in the late 1970s-early 1980s, there was a red grand piano in the Ambassador Lounge. Since the ship was Dutch, presumably the piano was German, hence the Steinweg, not Steinway name.
no thats a Grotrian Steinweg piano.
@@bodigames Thank you. Question answered...whatever a Grotrian Steinweg is/was.
@@bodigames I just looked up Grotrian Steinweg. Now I know. Thank you again for your comment.
Nice to meet you this evening and deliver you a Steinway!
Yes, you have added to our collection - thank you!
I inherited a steinway, I don’t play, but it makes a stunning piece of furniture
Do you invite people over to play your piano?
All the time. My neighbor who doesn’t have a piano uses it for her sons piano lessons
You’re a legend! The world needs more people like you Dexter!
@@gpapa31 Like a good neighbor, Dexter is there!
Nice! Don't let your instrument become "piano-shaped furniture."!!!
I’ve played 1 brand new Steinway D and a handful of older used models. My favorite one was a 1987 model. I would rather own an older model in great condition. They have the most character.
We have a restored (with Steinway parts) 1916 Steinway D that will be available soon here: livingpianos.com/pianos/
I own a Chickering piano built sometime in the 1950. I love it!
Danish Hindsberg came along. I grew up with a Hindsberg - probably from the 1930es - a wedding gift for my grand-parents. We got it, when i was 3. - in 1956..... right before we moved to the country - to an old farm from 1810. It took some years to restore that one..... the farm, that is.
I have an Essex, got it pre owned at the Steinway showroom…lower level 😊…right in Manhattan on 6th Ave. What I love it that once you are in the Steinway family….and that even includes me…you can always trade in your piano and receive the full price you paid for it off of you next Steinway purchase.
Almost all dealers offer that with the pianos they sell.
@@LivingPianosVideos good to know, thanks! 🙂⭐🙏🏼❤🌺
Very interesting video. Brings to mind a couple of thoughts-- "half of all new Steinways sold have Spirio, with $29,000 added to cost." Already a huge cost; job losses and inflation in America-- seems to indicate huge foreign and newcomer buyers. Not my favorite make anyway. Illegal decal-- strange country, USA-- illegal to buy a piano logo, but legal to purchase emergency personnel merchandise such as police, military, and fire. 🤔
A great Steinway is unbeatable but more and more Steinways fall into the category of “ordinary” (at that price point). For me, the Shigeru Kawai is a musically more interesting and engaging instrument but as ever it comes down to individual choice. Very interesting video.
my school have 27 1960´s steinways, plus 2 model D grands on the concert room. i think theres another D274 on the choir room.
Knowing what I know about things like MIDI, Logic Pro (I have two MP 11 se's) It seems those technology upgrades like playback and record are ridiculously overpriced, I can kind of see it in the mechanics of the intertface for playback being somewhat intricate, but record should involve a sensor which you can't tell me costs $20,000.
You are right! My gigging instrument, by Casio records multi track two ways. My MP7se does that also ( but it's too heavy for gigging....)
Is it true that if you sell your Spirio grand, you cannot transfer ownership of the Spirio system to the new owner?
I have a 1927 Steinway. Beautiful instrument.
Great episode and tastefully done. BTW, do you ever get tired of the "Stein-was" trope attacking independent rebuilders and technicians? My response: There's the "Stein-way", and there's the "Right-way" to restore pianos.
For decades Steinway's rebuilding shop installed "geniune" OEM Steinway dimensionally-incompatible and/or teflon bushed parts into vintage pianos when there were superior aftermarket period-appropriate parts available (i.e. Renner, Abel etc) and then scoffed when buyers chose the independently restored pianos that more accurately reproduced the touch and tone of the original.
Steinway's solution: Buy Renner, slow-walk the parts, and deny fallboard logos...
I'd never heard the pejorative "Stein-was" until I read these comments. For my taste, I prefer Baldwin pianos, especially those made in the era when they were head for head competitors.
How does one discover what music is available on the Spirio system? Is this a closely held secret? Same problem with Yamaha Disklavier, which is also available on Bösendorfer.
I was sad to hear the K52 is discontinued, but I admit that I just don't see many of them around. I love mine, and have a Steinway trained technician to maintain it. It appears the Hamburg K135 is a similar sized piano. Is it basically the same as the K52?
Yes, the K132 made in Hamburg is essentially the same as the New York K-52 in most respects.
I learned something, thanks
Chrissahar: merci d'avoir parle de Pleyel ,j'en ai moi même 2 ,ne pas oublier que le model AL était le meilleur du monde et que Steinway en a repris les plans .mon accordeur a dit que mon piano droit Pleyel de 1934 était meilleur que le Steinway a queue du conservatoire .la rapidité de la mécanique l'a surpris.
Another question: What building contains the most Steinways under one roof? The answer is the Oberlin Conservatory of Music in Oberlin, Ohio. Oberlin is the largest academic customer of Steinway piano, for the longest period of time, and unlike many music schools and festivals, does not sell its pianos at the end of the term.
Actually, most music schools do not sell their instruments at the end of each school year. They do sponsor sales which you can learn about here: livingpianos.com/what-are-college-piano-sales/ Oberlin school of music only has around 135 students. Indiana University Bloomington has around 1,500 students. So it is unlikely there are more Steinways at Oberlin than at IU Bloomington.
I remember them, from the late 1960's. Most of the practice room grands were M's. Piano majors were allowed to take a course taught by Oberlin's head piano technician, and they rebuilt one M after another. I remember them being in quite good shape.
$48K just to record/playback?! In 1973, when I worked for a S&S dealer, a Model B Ebony's list price was $6,810! Can't remember if the bench was additional...
Don't forget inflation. That $6810 is equivalent to $55,000 in 2024.
ooh, i like this week's flourish
I was a student at SUNY Stony Brook in the early 70's. With a new fine arts building came at least 100 new Steinway pianos.
They were all pure junk... from uprights to full concert grands . They were all repIred over time, but the mechanicals and sounds were horrible. I was there for four years. American made steinways had stuck and broken keys action and strings. They must have changed the whole operation after cbs took over. Hope they are better now.
The amount that Steinway is charging for the Spiro system is criminal.
Always learning from you. I would rather have a piano disc system put into
a used older Steinway....IMO much better and a lot less expensive.!!!!
Only Steinway and Yamaha have record features that replicate exactly what you play. PianoDisc and QRS work O.K., but not like Disklavier and Spirio systems.
@LivingPianosVideos
Thank you for your response but
the piano disc system is able to
record exactly what you play on the piano and then Play it Back!
Check on this I just did!! Thank you again and many blessings to
you..
Teach, Can I get a redo on the quiz?
Designer anything is a cashgrab for people with too much money and/or too little brains
Could you make review with Bechstein Concert 8. Is it true the best upright piano in the world with heavy keyboard and tone of concert grand piano?
Nothing beats a Steinway. Unless it’s a FAZIOLI, but that’s another stratosphere all together.
I own a 1926 restored "L" that I adore.
We just sent our 1970s Steinway back for refurbishment. It arrived a couple months ago from Steinway. The keys were stiff and the middle pedal didn't work.
Definitely not worth the $85k price tag to "fix it up".
Steinway is charging $85k to rebuild pianos now? We have phenomenal rebuilt Steinways we are selling for a fraction of that: livingpianos.com/pianos/steinway-sons-grand-piano-4/
Where can you find great used Steinways without going to Steinway? I’d like a 5/10 to 6/1 size. What’s better a German or NY made Steinway? Can Spirio be added to a used Steinway? Interesting to see this video pop up in my feed. Thx
Don't buy any piano less than 6 foot/feet. Baby Grands are merely "piano-shaped furniture."
Many artists preferred Chickerings, especially those of the 19th century, over Steinway. Examples are Franz Liszt, Hans v. Bulow, Vladimir de Pachmann, and even Glen Gould on later models. If you know how to restore them properly, they come back to life with much more character than the clinical-sounding contemporary pianos.
We sell many Chickering as well as other great American pianos in addition to Steinways.
Thank goodness I play trumpet.😊
I have a Steinway 1098 model made in 1964, which I inherited and then had rebuilt. I like it a lot, but I don't think I'd buy a new Steinway today.
*when I saw the headline, What Happened to Steinway, my heart sank - not another thing from my childhood gone. thankfully, it was not. FWIW, my history is, that my Grandmother bought a Steinway upright grand nearly 100 years ago, and had it up on the farm for my aunt to play. when Grandma sold the farm, the piano went to another Auntie, and was with her for many years, until she broke up housekeeping. I wonder what happened to this lovely oak-finished piano with real ivory keys!*
Large areas of the Steinway factory in NYC have recently been leased out to other companies.
Steinway “made it illegal” to buy Steinway decals? Didn’t know Steinway could write trade laws. Was this “law” adjudicated in a US court?
I asked a Steinway sales rep in New York if there was any difference at all between the same model Steinway made in New York and in Hamburg, and she said no, absolutely not. But you say they use different hammers. Well that’s a difference!
Can’t say I’m impressed with Steinway today, especially that through sleight of hand they have pianos made at a generic, multi-purpose factory in China. With such a priceless brand, why outsource to China?
I had the good fortune to find two used Baldwin pianos, one from a single owner who passed away, in flawless condition. Had them tuned professionally. I can’t image it getting better than this!
Hamburg Steinways are the most sought out.
There are other differences. The New York steinways (I don;t know if it is every model) have a keyboard on which the keys gently rise from ends to middle, by a sixteenth of an inch (according to Kent Webb of Steinway in 2012) while the Hamburg Steinways have a dead level keyboard. And before the purchase of Renner, New York Steinways had their own Steinway actions.
Steinway advised to order one from Hamburg for tropical countries like Indonesia
the accelerated action as far as I know is a certain curvature of the balance rail punching that makes the keys kind of rock on a semicircle horseshoe type balance rail punching.
The feeling it provides is that once you push a key partially down, it wants to travel to the bottom of the keybed. It can make it easier to play softly.
ah big deal, marketing BS.
There is a technique used by some technicians on high-end piano work, of cutting off the front part of the round felt (or felted cloth) balance rail washers, which is said to improve the feel of the action.
Wonderful content Robert, one of your best episode.
But honestly, a Mickey Mouse piano, or even the Mussorgsky piano? At 2.5 million? Come on, that's silly...
I wonder what they paid the artist, though.
Why is 2.5 mil silly for a one of a kind Steinway? People pay far more for art all the time.