The Best and Worst Pianos To Buy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2022
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Welcome to LivingPianos.com, I'm Robert Estrin. Today I'm going to talk about the best and worst pianos to buy. This is a big subject, so where do we begin? I'll start with the worst pianos to buy, then I'll go to the best pianos to buy so we can end on a happy note!
My first piano at age 5 was an old 1880's upright, second piano at age 10 was the Whitney console. I have owned many pianos over my lifetime and now am fortunate to own the Yamaha CFIII concert grand. I am 67 now and have made a living as a piano teacher, piano tuner/technician, church musician, and performer. Still going strong. The piano has been good to me.
how much did you buy that yamaha concert grand?
@@puggaming450 I feel I got a real deal. I purchased it from Field's Piano in Santa Ana, Calif. in 2004 for $22,000. It was built in 1986. It was their concert hall instrument for recitals and concerts. It was tuned frequently and was in great condition.
@@johndouglas7787 yeah I looked it up it's a very beautiful piano
I spent 18 years in the purgatorial tuning trade. The vast majority of the work, and the nicest people, owned 1950's pianos of 42 inches or lower. Occasionally I would encounter a pristine Steinway L, marveling at it as i got my tools out. Obly to have the owner curtly ask: "how long is this going to take? I'm expecting guests for dinner."
Bought a used Boston 5’10” grand for my daughter to replace her spinet. She found the spinet hard to play when trying to play lightly (sometimes the keys failed to hit the strings) The Boston upgrade was Worth every penny, what a difference.
I had a Baldwin Acrosonic and I loved it. I finally upgraded to a Yamaha baby grand and gave my spinet to someone starting out. It’s all what you can afford and how much space you have.
What a great commentary on the best and worst pianos to buy! Good advice, thanks🤔
Nice video, thank you! Would you make a video sometime that sorts out some of the different types of Yamaha Grands? And would a biggish yamaha grand from the 80s be a good idea? Thanks a lot.
Very helpful indeed
I have a Blüthner baby grand piano of 1933. I had it restored completely. It's great, but with age I cannot much play it at all. Maybe I should have stuck with my lovely Knabe piano. The Blüthner, though, would be a terrific find for a better pianist than I am nowadays.
Whenever buying a used piano check all the keys to make sure they work; look inside and inspect the strings, hammers, and the felt on the hammers; make sure the pedals work; and check the sound board to make sure it's not cracked.
I have a Winter brand spinet...the low end rumbles like a vertigrand, the mid range sounds great...the high end is decent. It also has full length keys as well, not short by any means.
I have an old upright. It is a iris and pond Boston. It’s 140 year-old. It’s a pretty good shape serial number 37 311
Hi Robert,
Thanks for the information
What a shame, that we only have two American piano manufacturers left
I remember the Baldwin Acrosonic spinet back in the 70's
I agree with you about these pianos
That was the only one my boss/mentor would work with, for all the reasons you mentioned
What do you think of console pianos?
We worked on those and he kind of "put up with them," although we didn't have many
I also never liked the pianos from other countries.......you know the brands
Although, Sangah Noona, (a wonderful pianist on TH-cam) plays one
She is so good and nice, but in my opinion, that piano, a grand, has inconsistent notes across the keyboard....also this ringing sound in the high register......but that's what she likes and again, she's a fine pianist and singer as well
We live in a condo and only have room for a digital piano
I've been through a number of them over the years, but in 2021 I purchased a Yamaha P-515 and couldn't be happier
You can adjust the sympathetic resonance and other things to make it sound more authentic.....I'm sure you're aware of this unit.......It's really a Clavinova 645 in a stage piano cabinet.......the action is wonderful, in my humble opinion, some say it's too heavy, but I like the wood in the white keys and the length of them as well.....plus it has a lot of metal instead of plastic
I'm not advertising for Yamaha, just my opinion.
Anyhow,
Take care, and we'll see you in the Spring
Dave
Luckily for people like me I don't have to worry about the best and worst pianos to buy because I cannot afford any of them anyway. With the prices of pianos you have to make a choice between a house and a piano.
Everyone give away pianos now for free
I agree that the Steinway spinet piano I played through teen years was very poor preparation for my 1929 Steinway baby grand, original soundboard, sold to me by Steinway trained technicians and also serviced by Steinway trained technicians for the last 45yrs. Irreplaceable no matter the insurance which is very expensive if you can get it..
I'll bet that Steinway sounds wonderful.....a gem for sure.......a lifetime of joy
I got a upright piano frome 1910 it's awesome sounds great but it needs to be tuned but I wish I had a grand piano
I grew up in East Rochester, NY in the 1950's where 5 big name piano factories (separate buildings) were brought under one umbrella by the American Piano Company in about 1905, and were turning out thousands of quality pianos every year (30,000 at its peak!). The piano craftsmen were true artistans! AMPICO merged with Aeolian in 1932.
Aeolian went under in the 1980's despite having been bought out by the former president of Steinway, and the factory buildings sat idle for a time. They were eventually renovated/connected and are now a retail sidewalk mall and office complex called 'The Piano Works' mall. Besides Mason & Hamlin and Wm. Knabe names, there were Chickering and Sons, Fischer and Foster-Armstrong. The plant made airplane parts for the war effort during WWII...!
I have an old Wurlitzer upright from 1927 given to me by my late father in the 60s. Its never been tuned and definitely needs to be as well as some work done on it but although out of tune it still sounds pretty good. Im keeping it for sedemental reasons as well
I can understand the family feelings.....most important in your decision, but curious as to how much it would cost to bring it back....I know it will take several tunings to bring it up to pitch, providing the pin block is still good
Robert would know for sure....Cheers
Don't waste your money.
@@Fretless1you need to find a good tuner that's not afraid to tune old pianos. I had a tuner that tuned a piano that wasn't tuned in a half a century. I think the last hammer that had a date in the late teens . Now this was in the late seventies the piano tuner brought this piano up to pitch he didn't fool around and went to business on this neglected piano.
First he detuned the string to break the rust from the pins in the piano harp then slowly brought each string up to pitch. Of course he didn't sharp tune to 442. But brought it up to 440. Some tuners at that time and so did some orchestras tuned higher than A 440. After he tuned that piano I spent hours on the piano no ivory on the keys I didn't care it was a masterpiece to me. I could play along with recordings of great pianists. This one was blind. I was working on Beethoven Piano sonata op 14 number 2. That was my favorite at that time. Op 13 wasn't in my mind yet until I was in college. The moonlight was too hard. Not saying those mentioned was easy far from it. I'm not saying every neglected piano will sound as good as mine did. The tuner showed me how to glue the bridle straps on the action without taking any of it apart. Later I bought straps that had clips so no more glueing.
I sure miss that old piano mom spent 40 dollars to have the keys recovered. The piano finally died when we brought it to Florida I had it tuned and played it for months then I decided to refinish it well that never got done and slowly strings started to break in the middle of the night. The Florida humidity and we didn't run AC. Well if you fix and restore an old piano keep the instrument in the perfect humidity. Don't use damp chasers they will dry out the instrument and parts will come loose. An AC room is what a piano needs . 73
Spinets are definitely a compromise for space and sometimes, weight (I lived in an apartment whose landlord would only allow me a very short spinet piano, and this was before the time of decent digitals, so I took a Grinnell Brothers spinet that belonged to my stepmother). I was able to place it to align with a wall of a short hall, creating a resonant space that helped the sound. Later, another apartment-friendly (and late-night playing friendly) option was a digital, whose sounds were just starting to become decent at the time. Some pianists won't touch a digital. I consider myself to be merely an advanced duffer, so I will.
What about the best and worst baby grands?
Great advice! My parents bought me my very piano when I graduated high school. Yes, it was a spinet and worse it was a Kimbell. 😂 I know they tried and listened to the sales person and since it was a suprise I had no input until they revealed it! While I appreciated their thoughtfulness I absolutely hated that piano. I could barely hear myself play. Sadly their house burned shortly thereafter, and there went that piano! Fast forward fifty years later, I finally bought my very first piano so I bought a baby grand Bosendorfer and then worried if I'd remembered how to play since after all I never had any lessons. What I knew of playing it was based on my replicating music I heard. Then Covid struck which was horrible. The only saving grace was it allowed me more than ample time to refresh my memory but I didn't have too much hope. Well much to my suprise and those of all my friends I might add, was the astonishing accomplishment through playing for hours I began to exceed even my wildest expectations. Each day I still play two to three hours a day when possible. I watched your videos on buying advice which helped me determine which piano embodied the tonal quality and over all sound quality that I preferred. Thank you Robert! All your videos, each one has been a lesson that I really have appreciated. You inspired me. Thank you! 🙏
Your Bösendorfer may be smaller than their concert models, but, NEVER call ot a baby grand. All Bösendorfers are serious instruments. So find out what the company calls your model. I’d dearly love to have one of those.
A Bosendorfer and you were at the beginner level? Wow!!
You did a review of a Ronisch 6 years ago and I think they are worthy of inclusion in a quality vintage piano.
Hamilton studio pianos by Baldwin were particularly good. They were available in walnut, oak and black. I suspect there are still more Hamilton 243 pianos in existence in the US than any other single model.
We have the best spinet piano brand the Wurlitzer
Yamaha U2 or U3 and
Kawai GS-70 or 80
are my favorite
I love all your videos. My favorite so far is about that piano that Thomas Edison had. Such a great piece of American history.
I used to be in my College's film Orchestra and I miss playing that Steinway Model D grand piano! I can pull out so much power but also play the lighter notes as well. I'll never forget the 3-hour concert we did playing the Lord of the Rings trilogy. We had so many musicians and choir members the music actually called for the piano lid to be removed. I think they did it for mic placement to be honest but I thought that was very odd. I bet that lid weighed about 200 lbs. Lol I am currently writing my own score on Piano. I call its styling a progressive Epic. I even threw in some wacky time signatures like 13/8.
13/8? love it! I'm trying to count that and .....oh boy forget it Lol enjoy that beautiful instrument
I see the baldwin acrosonic is classified as a smaller console, not a spinnet?
Baldwin Acrosonic was made in spinet (36" tall) and console (42" tall) sizes. The consoles were as short as 40" in earlier years.
The owner of a piano store I used to move for came back from NAAM and some Sangler and Sohne pianos shipped in for me to unpack. After taking the box off it, I called him and asked, "If I take this out of the box and it collapses when we pick it up, I'm not gonna be responsible!"
Nothing beats a big 1900 era upright. $25k-$45k later and you have a piano which frankly you couldn’t buy today for $60k.
But they’re simply not popular…
Bought 1987 Petrof P-105 upright. Not so bad, considering 250 $ price:)
3-27-2023 I love the Steinway most.
Also along with the spinnette pianos their was the consul pianos. They were very short and easily could get out of tune. Great for places that don’t have much space though. So a spinette and a consul were very short. Great for not having much space but not that great with sound.
No, Console pianos are just fine. There are very, very fine examples of Console pianos in existence. Do not confuse nor associate Spinet with Console pianos. Not everyone wants or needs a Studio upright, and Consoles are a fine alternative for a lot of people.
@@seancregomusic no.. I am not confusing them. I am saying that they are a short piano as well. Ummmm I use to tune pianos and their are some good consuls and their are some really bad ones. So no I am not confusing them. I am saying they have better pianos than consuls. Not saying that consuls are bad but they are not the best pianos. Yes. Some of them do sound fine but their sound is not like other pianos because they are small just like a spinette. I know the different types of pianos here… I was raised in a musical family and was and still am a working pianist. I was raised up around musicans. And my family was musical. Yes. I did point out that a consul does have its advantages but they are not the best pianos. Though,,,, and I say though,,, some of them are fine they are like I did not say they are the same as. They are like spinette. Two different types of pianos of course. But a consul and a spinette are not the best pianos. They are fine to play on but they are not the best. That is what i am saying here. I know my pianos here. I play them every day, all day, and that tells you something.
@@benjaminbrown5245 of course a console is not going to play like a grand or full upright. And when you get to see and work with ALL kinds of pianos daily (as do I), it's easy to forget to see that for some people less fortunate than you and me that some pianos that we wouldn't like (consoles) are still perfectly fine for many people. I grew up with a Kawai console that got me into conservatory! :)
@@seancregomusic Yea. I totally agree with you their. I mean acoustic pianos are very costly and if someone can afford a consul that is better than anything for sure and at least you in general have something so yes. Consuls are very good in this case. And they don’t take up that much space either haha. I do play both digital and acoustics. And as much as I love playing on digitals haha at work I do not play digitals well, unless they have them. I have a huge digital piano at home. I love that thing, but,,, their are definitely times where the acoustic shines and that is during performances. Yes. A digital can bee in a performance but that is where the acoustic really shines. I have had people ask which pianos do i like to play the most and I say “Well, it depends on what situation I am in. If i am performing then I love to play on acoustic grands. If i am just making music and creating it or just playing pieces then,, the digital is great. But all in all I love both pianos.” And people are wowed. You know as well as I some pianists do not play digitals but their are a lot of us that do. Yea. It all depends on the situation and also what type of digital pianos you want to play on. For me i love the ones with the most bells and whistles on them.
@@seancregomusic what about Charles Walter Consoles? They beat Chinese, Indonesian Studio and Upright Pianos in terms of sound and durability
Quite happy with our late 90s U3. “Avoid Asian pianos” is an odd statement.
I said that in regard to fixing up older Asian pianos. You don't want to put a lot of money into a piano that has limited value. Also, 1990's isn't that old for a piano!
@@LivingPianosVideos That Asian piano only has "limited value" if the person goes to resell it again within a short time of spending some money on it. A solid Kawai GS30 can be made to sound every bit as good as a new GX-3 for about 1/3 the cost, and have years of life in it. That's a cheap quality piano.
hes right dont buy a samick or chinese made pianos, their ok but they are made cheap and dont last
I'm so shocked that the spinet pianos are so that bad because i owned one of them!I guess my mom really didn't research enough lol
Forgot Charles Walter?
The rule of thumb is that the shorter an upright is the brighter the sound. The same is true of guitars, the smaller the guitar the brighter the sound.
I like Baldwin.
Walter Piano Company made (probably still makes) a fine grand.
And excellent uprights too.
The spinet piano was the kind of thing that Mozart and Beethoven used, specifically the Fritz. A performance of the Hammerklavier would have lasted over an hour, and even three quarters of an hour for the Waldstein and around a quarter of an hour for K545. Reconstruction of those original tempi can be found on Wolfgang Weller's TH-cam channel - it may take a little bit of getting used to for the listener, as it is slower than the tempi usually used today.
Further to my previous comment. There no such thing as a BAD piano. All pianos are GOOD, it's just that some pianos are better than others. A piano is never Bad, sadly, it is Good piano mistreated by a BAD person. "The piano that one can afford is always a GOOD piano". There are plenty of pianos designed in Europe and the Asia Pacific region that are BETTER that a good "US of A made piano". Even Steinway was created by a German piano builder and he built them in the US.
If i get a 80k piano can it be insured insurance policy?
Yes
Great any reputable companies come to mind?
@@EricSmith-ce4mv try Geico or State Farm, which piano for you get?
@@JohnSmithExtra im aiming for the moon (Stienway)and fall among the stars
@@EricSmith-ce4mv the B? I think you'll love it! Go big, or go home!
You people don’t have an idea. The Absolute WORST pianos you can buy are Philippine brands: Weinstein & Sons, Lryic and Trebel. Horrible pianos, you’d wonder why they’re even build.
I remember playing a Lyric baby grand with damper problems. Everything from midel C, and up was sustaining. Worst part it was new LOL🎹🎶
@@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12 how much was it selling for?
@@hastensavoir7782 PH price? Around 1,599,000 PHP. I was told it was made in Japan if I remember correctly🎹🎶
@@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12 made in Japan nila mukha nila 😂 lumampas na pala ng ₱5m ang upright ng Steinway haha
@@hastensavoir7782 I can't see it any more baka nabenta na. Siguro yung bumili tinignan lang at hindi tinesting haha! Anyway I'm starting to think it must have bin a reject from one of the Japanese piano manufactures.
Aas for the Steinway upright I haven't tried a pricy upright like that, however I did try a Steinway grand which is a lot pricier haha🎹🎶
I'll stick with my Boston grand.. made in 1998.. it's a superior product at much more reasonable price than your big-name products.
The Boston is a big name product. It's a Kawaii. Has some elements from Steinway and has the Designed by branding, but it is a Kawaii. And guess what, it's an incredible piano. Mine is a Boston GP 178. Two years old now. At my playing level (5) it sounded every bit as good as the Steinway O. And for about 1/3 the price :) Hope you love that Boston (err Kawaii :) )
@@Aerospace_Education what made you choose the Boston over the Kawai?
Can you physically insure your piano ?
Yes. I got special insurance through my homeowners insurance company. If you don’t get a special rider on your piano then if something happens your regular homeowner’s insurance won’t cover it. It wasn’t cheap but my agent said it even covers accidents like someone placing a wet glass on the lid. I said that would never happen because I’d shoot them before the glass actually reached my piano lid. Just kidding, but better safe than sorry.
@@g.970 this is great info!!! Ty
Yeah but you get ripped off lots ok
Be extremally careful of Chinese pianos!
I won't be careful with them as long as I avoid them altogether lol.
Not very useful if you don't live in America :-)
Steinway (USA)-best grand piano in world !!!
Wow, I just got mine
That's subjective🎹🎶
@@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12 ,I make proof : Steinway (just from USA) have combination 3 element s of sound -what no have no one another company grand piano . Steinway USA have : most deep ,big caliber,and bright sound together-no one another company no have this combination this 3 element s.(of course-this all elements sound of Steinway USA have in 1950 years , in 1960 and next generation Steinway USA lose some bright and clear tone). Of course -no all peoples want listen in sound just this 3 elements of sound ,for some peoples enough 2 element s or ...1 😃
@@shanhuawang360 Steinway doesn't just make pianos in the US they also make pianos in Germany which to meny people I asked are more superior than the ones made in the US🎹🎶
@@MERCEDES-BENZS600GUARD_V12 . I m in China :and I m very good know Germany s Steinway s(here in lot of hall -Germany s Steinway ). Germany s Steinway have more concentrated beautiful tone ,but small ,and no have enough deep tone . When I meet sometimes with Steinway USA-even no concert grand Steinway USA have more powerful ,more deep tone (in comparison with Germany s concert grand Steinway ). This -two different style sound of Steinway. Even have joke :’’who best friend Germany s Steinway ? Microphone ‘’ “ Who best friend Steinway USA? Acoustic space “😊
Everyone picks on Spinets. You can not get a Rolls Royce for the price of a push bike. In the 1970’s there was no such thing as a cheap digital pianos. TODAY, I take an 88 key digital with me when working away from home, no one likes practice guilt.
There is a right way and a very inappropriate way to approach this very important subject and I feel you have done MORE HARM THAN GOOD to the parent that is trying their best, to do the best for a child, when that child has told the parent they want to learn to play the piano.
In the 70's, a Spinet was the way for many new students to begin learning the piano. I feel your comments are likely to push parents with limited funds with a child eager to lean to play the piano right off from buying a lower priced piano. This happened to me. I had to wait till I was an adult. As a young adult in the early 70's I was on a low wage and couldn’t afford one of your alleged “good” pianos. I bought what I could afford. 50 years later, I still have my Yamaha Spinet, a digital piano and a Thomas Trianon organ which I am refurbishing. (Well, what else does a 72 y.o electronics technician do?) I am about to buy a more advanced piano soon, I can afford it now.
It seems me that you have forgotten “it is better to have any level of piano, than no piano at all”. I am very disappointed at the manner in which you approach this very important subject. Not everyone starts to learn piano on a Steinway.
I see where you are comming with this, but that is not at all what Robert meant. If you have a spinnette then that is what you have. He is not saying this at all, but yes. Back in the day spinette was a good piano but not today. That is what people used back then. I was born, and raised up in a musicial family and I am a working pianist. Today, nobody really plays spinette pianos because they have other ones. The spinette was not a very good piano but it was affordable like a go cart and a car. I do play both pianos acoustic and digital nad though i love them both they both have their place in my work. I remember playing on a spinette and it was crappy feeling. I had a piano teacher who had one at her home and it was super clunky as far as the keys go but,,,,, hear me out but,,,, that is what they used back in the 1980’s. Probably back then they were great pianos but for todays standards they are really poor because,e we have moved forward. Just like electric pianos. Nobody plays electric pianos anymore. They have moved to digital. Back then we thought those pianos were the best but moving on years, technology has surpassed and rose so it makes the older technology look like crap and i am sure that if someone really kept a spinette piano up, it would bee fine and if that is what they have that is what they have I am not saying that, but a spinette piano is not the best piano. I mean look. It is better than nothing and at least it is an acoustic piano, but those things are not very pleasurable to play. Robert is not dogging on that but he is telling the truth. Of course a grand is going to sound superior to anything I do play grands all the time so I know. I have also had expiernece in tuning pianos and counsels and spinette are really crappy to hold their tune. The counsel pianos the tuning pins get out of whack a lot of time and they are very very sensitive. Even on the spinette. Yea. It might look clean and you can keep it clean that is a different story. But the thing is is they are not very good with sound even on the lower register. You don’t get that much base at all and it sounds very cheap, well, because it is short theirfore they are not the bet pianos. I said that that is better than nothing but if yo I want to get a big growl out of the piano I am not going to bee playin on a spinette. Hahahaha. Even my digital piano that I have sounds hell of a lot better than a spinette. Hahahaha. So that goes to show you and the digital is not acoustic of course but it sounds way better and i can get a full grand sound out of it. Well, minus the harmonics and body length of the piano of course but it growls. On a spinette the keys are super short and they are harder to play. You almost have to bang on it to even do anything with it.
Spinet are bad. Nothing is worst...